Slashdot Mirror


AOL Instant Messenger Remote Hole

The DSL Guy writes: "The non-profit security team w00w00.org started off 2002 by uncovering a serious flaw in AOL's Instant Messenger protocol. With over 100 million people registered on the AIM service, this vulnerability poses a serious security risk for Internet users worldwide. This flaw can enable remote users to execute code on any machine logged into the AOL IM service. "So easy to hack, no wonder it's number one!" Details can be found at the w00w00 site."

343 comments

  1. Ouch... by Marx_Mrvelous · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Hmm, does this vulnerability affect linux clones, too? Of course, no person in their right mind would run gaim as root....

    But if you're running gaim...

    --

    Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
    1. Re:Ouch... by madenosine · · Score: 3, Redundant

      From the website:

      "this does not affect the non-Windows versions"

    2. Re:Ouch... by Hiro+Antagonist · · Score: 3, Flamebait
      Had you read the article, you would know the answer to this is "no":
      This does not affect the non-Windows versions, because the non-Windows versions currently do not yet support the feature that this vulnerability occurs in.

      (Taken from the article).
      --

      --
      I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
    3. Re:Ouch... by Eagle7 · · Score: 2
      Nope... doesn't look like it. From the article:

      AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) has a major security vulnerability in the
      latest stable (4.7.2480) and beta (4.8.2616) Windows versions.


      It's a buffer overflow, so the /. description is off - it's a client vunerability, not a protocol one (although it looks like AOL will fix it in the server).
      --
      _sig_ is away
    4. Re:Ouch... by mshiltonj · · Score: 1
      Hmm, does this vulnerability affect linux clones, too?

      I doubt it.
      Quoting:


      AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) has a major security vulnerability in the latest stable (4.7.2480) and beta (4.8.2616) Windows versions. This vulnerability will allow remote penetration of the victim's system without any indication as to who performed the attack. There is no opportunity to refuse the request. This does not affect the non-Windows versions, because the non-Windows versions currently do not yet support the feature that this vulnerability occurs in.
    5. Re:Ouch... by Stackis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      How does one receive a score of 2 on "Redundant"?

      --

      "Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
    6. Re:Ouch... by mellonhead · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Perhaps the moderator used a wheel-mouse?

    7. Re:Ouch... by Marx_Mrvelous · · Score: 2, Offtopic

      A better question is, how can this be redundant when it was the first post with this question?
      I don't have time to read everything, just posting my thoughts. Oh well, as if karma matters ;)

      --

      Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
    8. Re:Ouch... by Stackis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      A score of 3 for "Flamebait"?...

      What the F@#k!

      Me thinks the moderators are all smoking crack!

      --

      "Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
    9. Re:Ouch... by efgbr · · Score: 1

      It's redundant because the question is answered by the linked article.

    10. Re:Ouch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the article you stupid fucking fucker! w00t!!!

  2. How to protect yourself by Mwongozi · · Score: 5, Informative
    For those who didn't bother to read the article:

    We recommend Robbie Saunder's AIM Filter (http://www.ssnbc.com/wiz) to protect yourselves. A temporary solution is to go into your Preferences and in the Privacy section click "Allow Only Users on My Buddy List" under "Who can contact me."

    1. Re:How to protect yourself by bendawg · · Score: 3, Informative

      Also, if you're just lazy, you can just wait.

      UPDATE: AOL will be fixing this in the server side within a day or two.

    2. Re:How to protect yourself by Computer! · · Score: 1

      A temporary solution is to go into your Preferences and in the Privacy section click "Allow Only Users on My Buddy List" under "Who can contact me."

      Until some genius manages to script the AIM client to send the exploit to everyone on your buddy list (who will most likely have added you to theirs), making that precaution worthless.

      Again, proof that Windows is not the security problem, popularity is the security problem. When JFK got shot, it was assasination. When someone you've never heard of gets shot, it's just murder.

      --
      If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
    3. Re:How to protect yourself by Brendan+Byrd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Popularity doesn't make buggy code. Buffer overflows are soooo ten years ago, but I guess they still find them. At this point, I'm willing to say that any product with a buffer overflow found out at some time a year ago should not be used, and the programmers should be shot.

    4. Re:How to protect yourself by GoRK · · Score: 2

      The OS/X AIM client is fully scriptable. It even ships with demo scripts.

    5. Re:How to protect yourself by cygnus · · Score: 2
      in the Privacy section click "Allow Only Users on My Buddy List" under "Who can contact me."


      you have nice friends. i don't. we get into wars where we warn each other off IM on a daily basis.


      now to go download the exploit and really sock it to 'em!

      --
      Just raise the taxes on crack.
    6. Re:How to protect yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure the temporary solution is to only allow your "buddies" to message you, but what if your buddies get hacked first? Sounds like it could be abused in nearly the same way that Microsoft outlook has been in the past. Maybe it won't be a big event since AOL seems to be idiot proof in that it can automatically download its own patches and updates when you log in.

    7. Re:How to protect yourself by shokk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ``We have identified the issue and have developed a resolution that should be deployed in the next day or two,'' AOL's Andrew Weinstein said. ``To our knowledge, this issue has not affected any users.'' ``We'd encourage any software programmer that discovers a vulnerability to bring it to our attention prior to releasing it,'' Weinstein said.


      I'd appreciate it if AOL would get their act together and take some responsibility for writing the piece of crap and its corresponding holes. What ever happened to auditing code? This is just plain ignorance on how to deal with buffer overruns. And probably not a little of Window's holes that the programmers take for granted.

      I just don't like that AOL wants to buy time to spin the issue to save their face by releasing notice of the hole and the cure at the same time, but I also realise that half the jerks out there are going to run this little tool to blow a bunch of random machines on the Internet. Why exactly didn't AOL respond to messages over the holidays? Surely they were staffed by some. I guess they'll make sure to check to see if "they've got mail" next time.

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
    8. Re:How to protect yourself by W8TVI · · Score: 1

      Yet another way to get around this would be to not use AIM at all. Instead, get Trillian ( http://www.ceruleanstudios.com ). Its still in beta, but I have been using it for a few weeks and had not trouble with it at all. It replaces Yahoo! IM, ICQ, AIM, MSN Messenger, and IRC all at the same time.

      I like it!

      Noel W8TVI

  3. You have mail! by Monte · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...and now everyone has your mail!

  4. Why not wait a day? by MarkLR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given that the message states AOL will do a server side fix in a day, why not wait ONE DAY before releasing the exploit details.

    1. Re:Why not wait a day? by Monte · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Given that the message states AOL will do a server side fix in a day, why not wait ONE DAY before releasing the exploit details.

      Perhaps the former was a result of the latter? There's a concept called "lighting a fire under their ass".

    2. Re:Why not wait a day? by GTRacer · · Score: 3, Funny
      Maybe what they meant was:

      If we had tried to co-operate with AOL they would have tried to quash all public disclosure (including sploits). Therefore, we are disclosing now and expect them to run around like deranged monkeys trying to figure things out. Thank you and good day.

      Or maybe they just hate AOL like I do and want to make them squirm...

      GTRacer
      - No AOL on my IP-enabled PS2, THX!

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    3. Re:Why not wait a day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Exactly.

      This is nothing but malice.

      I find it already hard to accept that the "white hats" can't wait a few months until Microsoft fixes the holes in their OS, but not being able to wait for a single day... that's idiotic.

    4. Re:Why not wait a day? by ez76 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Perhaps the former was a result of the latter? There's a concept called "lighting a fire under their ass".
      Can someone please explain to me the moral or ethical mandate that supports/justifies this sort of vigilante thinking? Consider the following off-line scenarios, which to me seem equivalent (someone correct my thinking):
      • A test mode is discovered in a popular residential/commercial building security system whereby anyone can enter such a building by punching in a certain 23-digit code into the alarm keypad. w00w00 drives around town and posts a picture of the affected keypads and the first 21 digits of the code.
      • Certain model year GM vehicles' security systems can be foiled by holding down multiple chiclet keys at once and inserting a metal object into the driver's side door keyhole. w00w00 cruises local mall parking lots, opening the doors of random vehicles, putting a bulletin about the problem on the driver's seat, closing the door, and fleeing.
      • A template and generating function for test AT&T calling card numbers is discovered that permits anyone with the two to make free calls. w00w00 publishes the information.


      All of these actions could have theoretically been done in the name of improving security but in the short-term all they do is recklessly endanger it.

      These actions wouldn't fly in the real world without legal repercussions. And how can you claim that they are done in the interest of the public when so much anonymous public damage could result in the short-term? Is there anyone out there who really believes this isn't being done to take a stab at big corporations for big corporations' sake, by individuals who thrive in the gray area of the law?

      There is at least one long-term upside to w00w00's actions, though. Their actions will hasten the approval of legislation which makes online reckless endangerment as criminal on the Internet as it is in your neighborhood.
    5. Re:Why not wait a day? by larsu · · Score: 1, Redundant
      From the original text (and bugtraq post)

      We contacted the AOL Instant Messenger group but never received a response. Normally we would be inclined to provide a fix, but it is illegal to reverse engineer the AIM executable (DMCA and AIM's license agreement to thank), so we are unable to provide a patch which will modify it. Instead, we recommend Robbie Saunder's AIM Filter (http://www.ssnbc.com/wiz/) to protect yourselves.

      w00w00 found it, contacted AOL, waited, and released after AOL never said w00 about it.
    6. Re:Why not wait a day? by GTRacer · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Actually, I don't hate Microsoft products, just their practices and abhorrent licensing shenanigans. In fact, I use WinNT, Outlook, IE 5.5 and the rest of the Office 97 suite alongside Gimp, Apache, Perl, NMap, and WGet.

      I am not an OSS zealot although I do dual-boot Mandrake.

      I hate AOL because of their incredibly asinine advertising! "Everyone I know is on my Buddy List!" Maybe it's time for more friends! I used AOL 3, 4 and 5 at work and at home and despised the branding tricks and limitations on the Internet experience.

      I also loathe the way it seems (my perception - may not reflect reality) they feel their users need a prepackaged community because they're simpletons who don't need a better, deeper Internet experience. Kinda reminds me of various SF dystopias where the general populace is kept just smart enough to be useful but not enough to be critical thinkers and therefore dangerous to the status quo.

      GTRacer
      - Equal-opportunity company basher!

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    7. Re:Why not wait a day? by YaRness · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it's different because you can't download a new keypad for your security system or car, but you can easily download and apply a patch for a program. it's a matter of distribution.

      additionally, in your analogy, for each poster up on the telephone pole, they would have included a box full of replacement keypads (or whatever) to fix the problem; w00w00 did list a place to download a proxy that will serve as a temporary fix. it's allowing people to be able to make the decision to protect themselves, instead of being subject to the whims of Big Bad Corporation X's product life cycle.

      just the old regulated security VS. freedom debate.

    8. Re:Why not wait a day? by arkanes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, the third one is totally unrelated, as it's not an "exploit" except in that you get to make free calls (unless you mean it bills them to some random person, which is still a fairly poor analogy). The second is also a poor comparison - perhaps if they left the flyer on the windshield. That said, I don't see how your real world examples are immoral either. If my burglar alarm was discovered to be flawed, I'd want to a) know as soon as it was discovered by white hats so I can make sure I'm not relying totally on my alarm and b) know how it's done so I can see if my version truly is affected and c) get phones SERIOULSY ringing at my alarm company. I don't want to find out weeks after the fact that there was a known exploit in my alarm, which presumably is known to burglars, and the company didn't tell me so I could go buy a deadbolt. Companies hate recalls. They cost money and don't return any profit. It's very rare for one to be issued thats not mandated by law.

    9. Re:Why not wait a day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your examples are all strawmen, and can be dismissed. Let's assume their is a piece of software. And let's assume due to design issue, unexpected conditions, etc. it can be exploited and malicious code can be executed.

      What is the best response?
      1) Keep quiet?
      2) Notify the responsible company?
      3) Tell all users so they'll be aware of the problem and can take any precaution they deem necessary?

      If your answer is 1 or 2, it's possible someone malicious or evil will find the exploit and make use of it, while the users are blissfully ignorant of the danger they're in.

      With answer 3, users may at least be aware that they are at risk, and the company may be shamed into fixing it a lot faster than they would otherwise.

    10. Re:Why not wait a day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If your answer is 1 or 2, it's possible someone malicious or evil will find the exploit

      So, instead of just having the possibility of someone finding the exploit you want to make it sure that someone finds the exploit?

      Now that's a capital idea, my friend.

    11. Re:Why not wait a day? by Monte · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Can someone please explain to me the moral or ethical mandate that supports/justifies this sort of vigilante thinking?

      I'd like to start by stating that I don't condone w00w00's (gad what a name) actions, I was simply offering a possible answer to a question (which, for some reason, got modded up all to hell. I guess the SlashThink mindset agrees with all that appears to screw corporations).

      Now, in an attempt to answer your question - I think this sort of thing is defnitely a free speech issue, and I think in some cases it's justified.

      Let's take your example of a GM exploit - if I discovered such a thing and called GM about it (even if I were a registered/certified GM mechanic) - how many layers of corporate denial, obfuscation and red tape do you think I'd encounter? After all, a recall to fix the problem is going to cost some green, and I'm just some schmuck mechanic. So how long do you think it would take GM to fix the problem, versus the amount of time that someone who liked stealing cars figured it out?

      If instead of calling GM I phoned the local TV stations and demonstrated the problems - do you think that would speed up a GM recall? I sure do.

      Does this hurt the corporation? Yes. But then it was the corporation that created the exploit, or failed to close it. You reap what you sow.

      And how can you claim that they are done in the interest of the public when so much anonymous public damage could result in the short-term?

      The same could be said about an internet article that explains how to pick locks. Should such sites be shut down, in the name of the public interest?

      Their actions will hasten the approval of legislation which makes online reckless endangerment as criminal on the Internet as it is in your neighborhood.

      Which is the greater endangerment: the discription of an exploit, or the exploit's existance?

    12. Re:Why not wait a day? by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      when the industry has a history of ignoring security breachs, or trying to hush them up, it become nessessary to take such actions to protect the people.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    13. Re:Why not wait a day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First Amendment, perhaps?

    14. Re:Why not wait a day? by ez76 · · Score: 1

      In retrospect I concede that my second and third analogies were increasingly less relevant, and to be fair I also posed a question about an ethical mandate and concluded by talking about legality. Two separate issues.

      If the repliers are right, and these actions indeed qualify as protected free speech, I still question the morality of the action. I still question the justification of short-term exposure to harm for putative greater long-term good, regardless of legal "fault."

    15. Re:Why not wait a day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, that's BS. Releasing the details of how to commit an exploit is simply not acceptable. Suppose it is true that AOL can make available a fix within 24 hours. Given the motivation, with the research made available by that site, any two-bit coder could slap together something and start to take advantage of the exploit in a much shorter period of time. Additionally, there is no guarantee that AOL's fix of the problem will be completely bug free itself, and a person might be able to adapt the current exploit to take further advantage of the bug even after systems are patched.

      \Steve

    16. Re:Why not wait a day? by GigsVT · · Score: 2

      I don't know why I am responding to such obvious flamebait, but did any of you all actually read w00w00's bugtraq post?

      ------
      We contacted the AOL Instant Messenger group but never received a response. Normally we would be inclined to provide a fix, but it is illegal to reverse engineer the AIM executable (DMCA and AIM's license agreement to thank), so we are unable to provide a patch which will modify it. Instead, we recommend Robbie Saunder's AIM Filter (http://www.ssnbc.com/wiz/) to protect yourselves.
      ------

      They notified AOL, they got no reply. They did the right thing. End of story.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    17. Re:Why not wait a day? by mrbkap · · Score: 1
      In this specific scenerio, however, I don't believe your answer quite works. Although the vast majority of /. readers know and understand what a security hole is, I doubt that as many AIM users know. I also believe that a vast majority of them wouldn't even know to visit the site and find out how to protect themselves. And even assuming that they DID go to that site (by chance, misclicking on a link etc.) there is a large chance that they won't understand how to use a patch. Just because they aren't using the AOL client doesn't necessarily mean they understand what they do. I know plenty of people who don't use AOL, but instead use the regular internet like it was AOL (visiting only 2 sites, and retreating if they leave them). Asking them to download another program and install a patch would be light years beyond their comprehension.

      OTOH, the people who are "hackers," and will use exploits like this are extremely likely to visit the site. They probaby have already started to use this information to hit unsuspecting users.

      I do agree that it might be easy for a lot of us to download a patch and protect ourselves against such things, however, in certain cases, such as this, it is the "enemy" (hacker) who is helped more.

      Just my $0.02 worth.

      --
      -mrbkap
    18. Re:Why not wait a day? by bergeron76 · · Score: 1

      Would you not agree that by doing so you "force" attention to the situation? If a handful of people have the info and the company knows it exists, they'll be much more reluctant to patch it. I highly doubt AIM would be patched nearly as soon as it will now. It's the simple: "out of sight, out of mind" philosophy.

      Releasing the exploit practically guarantees it will get the necessary attention to get it resolved. Big business will hate this idea, and eventually by way of "senator padding" it will be absolved or made illegal because it's not in the companies best interests.

      That's the real shame...

      --
      Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
    19. Re:Why not wait a day? by mrbkap · · Score: 1
      "If instead of calling GM I phoned the local TV stations and demonstrated the problems - do you think that would speed up a GM recall? I sure do. Does this hurt the corporation? Yes. But then it was the corporation that created the exploit, or failed to close it. You reap what you sow."

      Yes, but how do you explain to all of the innocent drivers whose cars were stolen because you just told the world how to do so. It isn't quite so easy to patch a car as it is to patch a program.

      Alternatively (and this has been done by another company to MS I believe, although both the exploit and the company I can't recall at the moment), one could go to the company and tell them about their product. If the company fails to act on it, and instead delays, you could release it to the world (media/etc.) Which would tell the world as you suggested. (you still have the problem of all of those people who lose their cars because you happened to tell some jerk how to break into their car).

      BTW, if you happen to work for GM and you tell the media, you'd also probably lose your job.

      --
      -mrbkap
    20. Re:Why not wait a day? by ez76 · · Score: 1
      They notified AOL, they got no reply.
      Sometimes it's not that easy. Have you ever been involved in the development/testing/release of software used by millions of people day-to-day? Suffice to say the turn-around time for bug patches often far exceeds the time it takes to actually code the fix. Not to mention w00w00 probably reported this hole during the peak of the holiday season (when many staff are on vacation). Notice how w00w00 doesn't mention how long they waited for a response, and there is no mention of multiple attempts to contact the AIM team. One would think that an organization interested in the public good might have taken such measures.

      Here is probably what happened: Some product manager at AOL probably got wind of the hole and naively assessed the priority of the situation as relatively low. Why was it assessed as low priority? Well, that product manager probably looked at w00w00's e-mail and said, "wow, we should fix that soon, but it shouldn't delay the release of the holiday revenue-generating initiatives we're currently working on." What this product manager did not realize was that, despite w00w00's "white hat" e-mail, w00w00 wasn't on their side or even their users'; w00w00 wanted to embarrass the company.

      They did the right thing. End of story.
      Well let's see. The situation went from a few dozen (hundred?) people being able to exploit an obscure hole to hundreds of thousands knowing how in detail. Think about it: even if deployment of a bug fix hadn't been slated for another month, all w00w00 accomplished was a dramatic increase in AOL's (and AOL users') damage exposure. They did the self-righteous thing.
    21. Re:Why not wait a day? by aka-ed · · Score: 1

      BTW, if you happen to work for GM and you tell the media, you'd also probably lose your job.

      Better, then, to say "screw the public" and collect the paycheck? Your own argument demonstrates that full disclosure is the high road.

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    22. Re:Why not wait a day? by drc500free · · Score: 1

      But of the 100 million users of AIM, how many have heard of w00w00 or would ever hear about this through them rather than through AOL? I would say that 95% would be an extremely conservative number (do 5 million people have now about this stuff?) This is more like posting information about how to break into Volkswagon Jettas in a high-crime neighborhood.

    23. Re:Why not wait a day? by Colin+Bayer · · Score: 2, Informative

      What this product manager did not realize was that, despite w00w00's "white hat" e-mail, w00w00 wasn't on their side or even their users'; w00w00 wanted to embarrass the company.

      They sure as hell *did* want to embarrass AOL, and you know why? Because telling people something gets things done! If w00w00 had elected *not* to tell AOL, this bug could have been sitting out there for many months to come, and by the time AOL finally did decide to fix it, it could have reached epic proportions.

      Well let's see. The situation went from a few dozen (hundred?) people being able to exploit an obscure hole to hundreds of thousands knowing how in detail.

      But most boxen on which AOL is run are on narrowband connections, on the less powerful of the Windows operating systems, and turned off most of the time. Any exploitation (beyond vast compromise, which would likely be picked up by AOL staff) would be for little more than just making trouble.

      Think about it: even if deployment of a bug fix hadn't been slated for another month, all w00w00 accomplished was a dramatic increase in AOL's (and AOL users') damage exposure. They did the self-righteous thing.

      OK, let's do some rough math right now. Say that yesterday, J. Random Cracker found this m4d AOL exploit. He would prolly relay it to his friends to show how 1337 he was through (most likely) IRC. Assuming that he's on a fairly good-sized IRC channel, 20-50 people learn about the exploit right there. It spreads in much the same way throughout the "hacker" underground, and within hours, hundreds of thousands of l33t h4x0rz all know about the exploit and begin using it on hapless AOL users (few, if any, of whom are running any server daemons). This will go on until:

      a) The magnitude of the traffic is large enough to show up on AOL's collective radar,

      b) An attacker suddenly gets a pang of conscience and reports the exploit to a security firm, or

      c) A computer with sufficiently robust security gets hit (either by the attackers' AOL exploits or attacks launched from the compromised computers), the admin notices, investigates, talks to AOL, gets logs, and reports the exploit to a security firm.

      In any case, the collective exposure is a good deal more than what w00w00 has restricted it to (the collective malicious-user traffic to their site and the mass media for a period of one day, if AOL is to be believed). They didn't do the self-righteous thing, they did the honest thing.

      --
      Want Linux games? HERE.
    24. Re:Why not wait a day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Can someone please explain to me the moral or ethical mandate that supports/justifies this sort of thinking

      Yeah, sure... it's called progress and progress isn't a nice process to watch. Hackers are the apex preditors of the cyber ecology... IM users? The gazells and water buffalows they feed off of.

      Sure, it's easier not to fix bad code... that's the way your average software company wants it... keep development and maintenance costs to a minimum, while deriving maximum value of minimal coding effort... just like it's easier to fuck your mother, sister or cousin due to physical poximity; however, that doesn't mean it's right or the best thing to do.

      Hackers and their disclosures are the consumer reprots of the software industry.

      Equaly importantly to realize is that hackers operate in a meta-ecology of layers, who will feed off them... and any other perpitrators of acts they can make criminal via their modius operandi of "law" and influence. When the lawyers and politicians start to make life unlivable, a revolution resets the counter and we begin anew.

      > Is there anyone out there who really believes this isn't being done to take a stab at big corporations for big corporations' sake, by individuals who thrive in the gray area of the law?

      Is there any doubt that this is the moral norm and not some abhorent behavior that needs an extra law on the books? If you ask your average law enforcement officer, every last fucking one of us exists in a "gray area of the law" each and every fucking day of our lives.

      Duh... what planet have *you* been living on?

    25. Re:Why not wait a day? by YaRness · · Score: 1

      assuming aol's fix actually works, then in this case there's not much of a window for wreaking havoc, so the points may be fairly moot anyway.

      however things that stay valid: would aol have fixed it if no one announced it? in other words, is it better to announce it and let the script kiddies wreak havoc for as long as the owner of the software waits to fix it, or is it better to leave it unannounced, leaving the possibility that it will be discovered by someone less benevolent, which would open the exploit up to less noisy hackers for an indefinite period of time?

      you don't think a big corporation might hide, or just simply have overlooked, a nice gaping hole like this would you? nothing like that ever happens around here no sir....

      also more generally speaking, it's like keeping murder and mayhem off the news so as not to risk giving other people ideas. it's a noble idea but it just ain't gonna work.

      i'd rather risk a handful of poor aolers losing their mp3 collection because some 1337 d00ds haxored their boxen when the information was released than have someone else make the decision that i don't need to know about it. in this (albeit minor) case, i'd rather have the freedom to protect myself (or at least see a company forced to unf*ck their software that millions of people use) than the security (*cough*) of blind reassurance that all is well and i shouldn't worry.

      (most of the time i'm really cynical and would prolly say the herd is too stupid to protect itself, but it still stands that people in charge of the herd sometimes needs a kick in the ass to do their bloody job.)

    26. Re:Why not wait a day? by wilcoxon · · Score: 1
      Can someone please explain to me the moral or ethical mandate that supports/justifies this sort of vigilante thinking?
      Because if it's not done this way, then the large corporation ignore the security flaw and leave all of their users open. Go back and read articles about computer security disclosures in the early 90s and how the current practice (what w00w00 did) came about. Basically, it was proven time and again that the large software corporations don't care about security, but they do care about public perceptions so the only way to get them to fix security flaws is to publish information about the flaw and how to exploit it (otherwise, the corps claim it is only theoretical and doesn't really exist and (again) don't fix it).
    27. Re:Why not wait a day? by nolife · · Score: 1

      Why work for them for free? Do you think they are going to call you and thank you for waiting a day or pay you a consulting fee? Do you think they would have YOUR best interest in mind when they update their privacy policies? Sell your personal information? When their cronies are lobbying in DC to get the DMCA passed? When they are trying to take away your first sale and ownership rights?

      These companies have no regard for you the consumer. They represent the SHAREHOLDERS 110%. Consumers are NOTHING to them. They made a choice to cut costs and not review and test their code. They now have to pay the piper. If this would not have made such a splash in the media, it may have been fixed at some point in the future and behind the scenes (cover-up), very few people would have found out about it, and there would be nothing implemented in the future to prevent this from happening again. You the consumer would have NO idea of knowing what kind of quality controls have been implemented in the company your are dealing with.
      Imaging a tire company trying to silently cover up the fact that they had some bad tires? Imagine an airplane company forgetting about rudder problems on the most popular plane in the US?
      You can insert any monopolistic company name in place of AOL here and it would result in the same scenerio. Shareholders drive the business decisions, NOT you the consumer. When the shareholders decide they want code to be audited, it will get done, not until then.

      This is one of the checks and balances in the system. Actually probably the only check that a consumer still has..

      If it were Microsofts way, it would be illegal to disclose bug information. Who does this protect? You the consumer? FUCK NO...

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    28. Re:Why not wait a day? by Judebert · · Score: 1
      While there have been many replies to this post, I can't say I necessarily agree with any of them, or that any have really answered your question.

      I'll make the attempt.

      "The moral or ethical mandate that supports/justifies this sort of vigilante thinking" is very well illustrated in your examples. It's the golden rule.

      • First example: assume the security system protects your building. The security company knows about it; the criminals almost certainly know about it. Would you want to know? I sure would. That way I could take steps to protect my family and property, such as adding a deadlock, barring the door, getting a dog, or hiring an armed guard. In any case, if I don't know about the problem, I'm vulnerable.
      • Second example: assume it's your car with vulnerable locks. GM knows. The criminals almost certainly know. Wouldn't you want to know? I sure would. That way I could park where there is less chance of getting robbed, carry a gun, hire an armed guard, install a supplemental security system, or empty my car of any valuables. In any case, if I don't know about the problem, I'm vulnerable.
      • Third example: free calls. AT&T knows. The criminals almost certainly know. Wouldn't you want to know. I sure would, if my own calling card number could be generated, forcing me to pay for someone else's calls. That way, I could cancel the card, switch providers, or check my bill more often or more closely to avoid paying for services I never received. While other responses have indicated that this scenario is "irrelevant," I have to disagree. If I could be hurt, I want to know. (Of course, if it's entirely AT&T's problem, I don't care.)

      While we can say that the above actions recklessly endanger security, that is only the case if we assume the criminals are as ignorant as we are. And they aren't. I want to be as informed as the criminals. I support disclosure for security problems, even real-world ones.

      It's the only way to know you are protected.

      We're out of dynamite. What we need is a plan!

      --

      For geek dads: Contraction Timer

    29. Re:Why not wait a day? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because to me and many others, "Insecurity is better than a false sense of security!" And I would like to know for myself that someone is not just blowing smoke up my ass.

      This is just information, knowledge is power. It is not good or bad, but it is powerful. How one uses it is up to them. Posting information, putting a note in someones car, etc... is not a real big crime, the _information_ is not the crime.

      I'm glad I found out about this exploit as soon as possible, I know now that _I am vulnerable_, and thus I can react. I can look in my software archives and install my favorite AIM 4.3, use AIM Express, or just GAIM since the exploit is for Winbloze.

      I would say that if someone finds an exploit, they tell everyone immediately, better than than for them to use it themselves, or to fool you into a false sense of security. The truth will set you free, and it only levels the playing field if everyone knows whats up.

      It hastens security, makes it stronger, and makes companies pay for not practicing security/making it a priority/being lazy and selling you an insecure product.

    30. Re:Why not wait a day? by Danse · · Score: 1

      I subscribe to the warn/wait/release philosophy regarding exploits. First, warn the creator of the application that there is a problem. Give them sufficient time to take action based on the information you can provide to them. Ask them to respond to you with their decision and whether they will release a patch in the timeframe you specified. Say the average might be a week or two. It depends on the problem. Wait until their time is up. If they haven't released a patch, or contacted you with a good reason why, then make the exploit public.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  5. Info on AIM protocol by btellier · · Score: 3, Informative

    Since we all know the holes won't stop here, anyone who wishes to further investigate problems can start their research here and here.

    1. Re:Info on AIM protocol by ichimunki · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, you can research the protocol all you want, but it is the client application that is the problem here. Now maybe the protocol makes security an issue when used correctly, but still it is up to the client developer to introduce the feature in a non-safe way.

      --
      I do not have a signature
    2. Re:Info on AIM protocol by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 1

      Well, you can research the protocol all you want, but it is the client application that is the problem here.

      "Pfft! Facts! You can prove anything even remotely true with 'facts'. Facts, schmacts!"

      Now, now, ichimunki, it's obvious to even the casual observer that without SMTP there would be no SirCam.

    3. Re:Info on AIM protocol by btellier · · Score: 2

      Uhm, since this is a *closed source* application the only ways to test are by disassembly and throwing correctly formatted packets at the client. This requires you to know the protocol that the client application is using.

    4. Re:Info on AIM protocol by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      Okay, but that isn't what I heard you say before. Personally I don't have the energy to test AOL's software for them, nor do I have any legitimate reason to want to subvert it. So the only reason I can think of to study their protocol is to build open source alternatives to closed source clients. And for that your links are quite informative. :)

      --
      I do not have a signature
  6. not any machine by hyperstation · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...only windows machines. get your facts straight.

    This does not affect the
    non-Windows versions, because the non-Windows versions currently do
    not yet support the feature that this vulnerability occurs in.

    1. Re:not any machine by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 1

      Yeah - I can't tell you how long I've waited for the "User -> Messages -> Remote Command Line" option to appear on my own AIM client.

  7. Warnings by Joe+U · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Wasn't AOL warned about this sort of stuff over a year ago?

    I remember someone at Microsoft saying that AIM and ICQ had some serious unchecked buffer problems. Something to do with why Microsoft wouldn't update MSN Messenger to work with AIM anymore.

    (I might be wrong on this, anyone have info?)

    1. Re:Warnings by Havokmon · · Score: 4, Funny

      One of ICQ's was a login buffer overflow. Basically if you used licq or a NON-Mirabilis version, you could login as anyone just by using a password longer than 15 chars (IIRC).

      Ok so I used it once to send two of my coworkers homo "I like to watch your ass" emails from each other...

      --
      "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
    2. Re:Warnings by kesuki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That bug is old news... I used it for months until I remembered my ICQ password. It's 9 charachters not 15 ICQ doesn't allow passwords greater than 8 characters. While some sites won't allow a password shorter than 8 characters ICQ won't allow a longer one... Nice to see how security conscious mirabilis was and still is now that AOL owns them.

      Actually though I think the earliest ICQ implimentations performed the password authentication locally, which is why the 8 character limit on passwords exists in icq.
      A 9 character password response meant the authentication was done by the client.

  8. It is good that this bug was discovered... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...but how many people are going to take it seriously, coming from an organization named "w00w00?" I would imagine that the vast majority of AOL users will just roll their eyes and dismiss this as skript kiddie propaganda. Why can't people grow up and choose mature names for their teams, such as "Security Labs" or "Internet Safety Organization?" These names took a grand total of 10 seconds to think up and are a hell of a lot more authoritative than "w00-frickin-w00." Jesus.

    1. Re:It is good that this bug was discovered... by Smooph · · Score: 1

      I agree! It's almost as bad as posting on slashdot as an "Anonymous Coward"! ;)

  9. just in case it gets /.'d by Archbishop · · Score: 0, Informative

    AOL Instant Messenger overflow
    w00w00! http://www.w00w00.org

    Author: Matt Conover (shok@dataforce.net)
    Contributors: nocarrier, napster, and w00w00 collectively

    PRELUDE

    Happy w00year! It has been a while, friends, but w00w00 is still going
    strong! w00w00 is over three years old now and still boasts the title
    of the world's largest non-profit security team. One thing remains
    true about the world of w00w00, though: we love to shake things up.

    We'd like to take a moment and make an important point. Due to
    unfortunate circumstances, the environment of the security industry
    has changed for the worse. Most major vendors and security companies
    have all switched their policies to limited disclosure, leaving the
    end users still vulnerable to serious software flaws. Big corporate
    monopolists: 1, end-users cornered into using second-rate software: 0.
    Why? Two big reasons: the DMCA and using patriotism as an excuse to
    avoid disclosing vulnerabilities.

    First, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act affects circumvention of
    anti-piracy mechanisms and reverse engineering. If a product is
    released in binary form only (i.e., AOL Instant Messenger) to
    protect its technologies and one attempts to reverse engineer the
    file, it's a violation of the DMCA. Find out more information about
    the DMCA at http://www.anti-dcma.org.

    Second, Microsoft has "decried" information anarchy. Many major
    security companies have followed suit and the rest just bent to the
    pressure. However, blaming security research teams, such as w00w00,
    for releasing information on vulnerabilities is a cop-out. Whether or
    not security research teams release information on vulnerabilities, it
    doesn't change the fact that the vendor produced insecure software.
    Vulnerabilities are still exploited in the same way they were by the
    Internet Worm 13 years ago. Further, one can reasonably assume that a
    fair number of hackers are exploiting unpublished vulnerabilities.
    By only silently updating products, computer users are unknowingly left
    vulnerable.

    DESCRIPTION

    AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) has a major security vulnerability in the
    latest stable (4.7.2480) and beta (4.8.2616) Windows versions. This
    vulnerability will allow remote penetration of the victim's system
    without any indication as to who performed the attack. There is no
    opportunity to refuse the request. This does not affect the
    non-Windows versions, because the non-Windows versions currently do
    not yet support the feature that this vulnerability occurs in.

    This particular vulnerability results from an overflow in the code
    that parses a game request. The actual overflow appears to be in the
    parsing of TLV type 0x2711. This may be more generic and exploitable
    through other means, but AOL has not released enough information about
    their protocol for us to be able to determine that. Robbie Saunder's
    email yesterday should be enough of a hint which direction to look in.

    We recommend Robbie Saunder's AIM Filter (http://www.ssnbc.com/wiz)
    to protect yourselves. A temporary solution is to go into your
    Preferences and in the Privacy section click "Allow Only Users on My
    Buddy List" under "Who can contact me."

    UPDATE: AOL will be fixing this in the server side within a day or two.

    IMPLICATIONS

    AOL Instant Messenger (http://www.aim.com) has over 100 million users.
    The implications of this vulnerability are huge and leave the door wide
    open for a worm not unlike those that Microsoft (*cough* corporate
    monopoly *cough*) Outlook, IIS, et al. have all had (Melissa, ILOVEYOU,
    CodeRed, nimda, etc.). An exploit could easily be amended to download
    itself off the web, determine the buddies of the victim, and then
    attack them also. Given the general nature of social networks and how
    they are structured, we predict that it wouldn't take long for such an
    attack to propagate.

    To top everything off, the particular overflow described supra is
    relatively simple to exploit. The payload can be several thousand bytes
    long, which leaves lots of room for creative shellcode. In addition,
    the shellcode can have null bytes in it, as long as the shellcode is
    located after the offset to EIP in the shellcode. That is, the offset
    to EIP is 1723 bytes into TLV type 0x2711. So if the shellcode is
    located after offset 1726, null bytes can be left in.

    EXPLOIT

    The exploit, w00aimexp, is too big (1000+ lines) to include here, but
    it can be downloaded at http://www.w00w00.org/files/w00aimexp.tgz. The
    files can be viewed online at http://www.w00w00.org/files/w00aimexp/.

    This is the exploit packet generated by w00aimexp (without
    USE_FULL_SIZE defined):

    FLAP header (6 bytes)
    [\x2a] '*' (magic number)
    [\x02] channel (data)
    [\x00\x11] seqnum number
    [\x07\x87] packet length (1927 bytes)

    SNAC header (10 bytes)
    [\x00\x04] SNAC family (message)
    [\x00\x06] SNAC type (outgoing message)
    [\x00\x00] SNAC flags (none)
    [\x00\x00\x00\x09] SNAC ID

    [\xa4\x98\xa3\x56\x54\xbf\xf2\xfd] cookie

    [\x00\x02] SNAC channel (data)

    [\x0c] victim screen name length
    [\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xXX\xX X] victim screen name

    Now a set of TLV data types. There is a base container, type 0x05,
    that contains everything else. Inside of this are several smaller
    containers, with each TLV type following immediately after the
    previous. If those are misaligned, you'll receive a "busted SNAC
    payload" error.

    [\x00\x05] TLV type (0x05)
    [\x07\x62] TLV length (1890 bytes)

    [\x00\x00] cookie marker
    [\xa4\x98\xa3\x56\x54\xbf\xf2\xfd] cookie

    Capability used to exploit this libfaim calls it (SAVESTOCKS):
    [\x09\x46\x13\x47\x4c\x7f\x11\xd1\x82\x22\x44\x4 5\ x53\x54\x00\x00]

    [\x00\x0a] TLV type (0x0a)
    [\x00\x02] TLV length (2 bytes)
    [\x00\x01] TLV data

    [\x00\x0f] TLV type (0x0f)
    [\x00\x00] TLV length (0)

    [\x00\x0e] TLV type (0x0e)
    [\x00\x02] TLV length (2 bytes)
    ["en"] TLV data (language)

    [\x00\x0d] TLV type (0x0d)
    [\x00\x08] TLV length (8 bytes)
    ["us-ascii"] TLV data (charset)

    [\x00\x0c] TLV type (0x0d)
    [\x00\x06] TLV length (6 bytes)
    ["w00w00"] TLV data (game's name?)

    [\x00\x03] TLV type (0x03)
    [\x00\x04] TLV length (4 bytes)
    [\x40\xa3\x1e\x4f]

    [\x00\x05] TLV type (0x05)
    [\x00\x02] TLV length (2 byte)
    [\x14\x46]

    [\x00\x07] TLV type (0x07)
    [\x00\x4d] TLV length (77 bytes)
    ["aim:AddGame?name=w00w00&go1st=true&multiplayer =t rue&url=http://www.w00w00.org"]

    [\x27\x11] TLV type (0x2711)
    [\x06\xbf] TLV length (22 + length of our shellcode = 1727 bytes)
    [\x00\x00\x02\x00\x05\x07\x4c\x7f\x11\xd1\x82\x2 2\ x44\x45\x53
    \x54\x00\x00\x00\x0b\x00\x09 + shellcode starts here]

  10. Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Bonker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The guy spends most of his time bashing the DMCA and how hard it makes to offer patches to this sort of thing without AOL's permission:

    From the NTBugtraq letter:
    First, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act affects circumvention of anti-piracy mechanisms and reverse engineering. If a product is released in binary form only (i.e., AOL) to protect its technologies and one attempts to reverse engineer the file, it's a violation of the DMCA. It's no question who the lobbyists behind this law were: the big corporations. Not surprisingly, AOL Time Warner was one of the DMCA's biggest supporters. Find out more information about the DMCA at http://www.anti-dmca.org.

    --
    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    1. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Ksop · · Score: 1

      Actually i dont think this was his point. What hes saying is that because the DMCA says it ileagal to reverse engineer the AOL client, it is ileagal to find out how it works. If you dont know how it works its harder to find bugs. He says nothing about a patch.

    2. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your point?

    3. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DMCA only makes it illegal to reverse engineer copy protection systems that control access to copyrighted works. AIM is not such a program, and is not covered by the DMCA.

    4. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Ksop · · Score: 1

      Ok well im not sure what leagal and whats not here. Is AIM copyrighted? And has this part of the DMCA been to court yet? All is fuzzy.

      But the article was not about how hard it is to make patches because of the DMCA. Which was suposed to be my first point.

    5. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last I checked AIM was a peer-to-peer protocol with the ability to share files. It lacks the nasper-esqe 'passive' fileshares, however sending a copyrighted MP3 to your friends, spouses, even from your work account to your home account are ALL violations of copyrighted work. There is no way short of having the author's consent or paying $2 for a SDMI compliant music file to 'own' the digital version of a copyrighted song. SDMI only allows you to rent a digital copy as well. There is no case precidence for fair use online, in fact the case law has already been established (the mp3.com case) that there is no such thing as 'fair use' online.

    6. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by vought · · Score: 2
      It should be illegal to spell as badly as you do.

      Baseball teams belong to leagues.

      Lawyers are legal professionals.

    7. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      straight from help->about

      About...

      America Online holds the exclusive copyright for the AOL Instant Messanger (TM) software.

      A portion of this software is derived from the RSA Data Security, Inc. MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm.

      Version 4.7.2480
      Copyright (C) 1996-2001 America Online, Inc.

    8. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have any idea how lame it is to flame typos? Get a life, loser.

    9. Re:Most of the writeup bashes the DMCA by mindstrm · · Score: 2

      The DMCA does NOT say it's illegal to reverse engineer the AOL client.
      It says it's illegal to reverse enginner a copyright protction mechanism.

      This is clearly not that; to apply tthe DMCA as meaning 'you may not reverse engineer any software, ever' is grossly wrong.

  11. Ok... by Wind_Walker · · Score: 1, Troll
    I had to run that post through my translator, hold on:

    The non-profit security team w00w00.org...
    Translating...
    The juvenile h4x0r kiddies at w00w00.org...

    uncovering a serious flaw in AOL's Instant Messenger protocol
    Translating...
    illegally reverse-engineered a crack into AOL's IM protocol

    I can't believe that Slashdot is propogating this crap. This stuff is not something we want to get out to the public! Yes, these crackers found a hole in AOL. The problem is server-side and will be fixed in a few days. In the mean time, Slashdot has just propogated this information (and the crack) to millions of people worldwide.

    I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty irresponsible to me.

    1. Re:Ok... by I_redwolf · · Score: 1

      Ok, pretend you don't know now. Good. I'm glad you feel safer, by the way where do you want these pr0n images? I was gonna make a directory for them in C:\pr0n\anal and all that other shit taken up space has to be removed. Infact I might as well start fresh and get some new stuff on here..

    2. Re:Ok... by neema · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is under the mindset that the people who read this will actually be using the exploit, rather then defending themselves from it, which is how I read it. As a user on AIM, I find it very helpful that it was released so that in the one or two days it takes to patch this, I don't get fucked over.

    3. Re:Ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Wind_Breaker, you don't find problems with protocols through reverse-engineering. Actually what is realy irresponsible is using closed source software that has a history of having issues because it is closed source. One would have to be a complete idiot to use a Windows based system.

    4. Re:Ok... by Noodleroni · · Score: 1

      For pete's sake! I heard it first on MSNBC (on the News with Brian William, even) before I ever saw it on Slashdot.

      --
      Esse quam vederi.
    5. Re:Ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> The problem is server-side and will be fixed in a few days.

      If the problem is server side, then why would it not affect non-Windows versions. Obviously they are just going to put a filter on the server to not allow messages with those bytes through. Or, they could just use that "feature" to automatically update the client for you.

      Sorry, but I would rather have vulnerabilities like this publized then have an insecure client sitting on my computer.

  12. Better Link by XBL · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.w00w00.org/advisories/aim.html is a better link.

    Hey, if you guys want open-source IM, check out http://www.jabber.org The server is open-source and it's a distributed XML-based network. Lots of different, cool clients too. JabberIM for Windows, and Gabber for Linux are the most mature ones though. There are bridges to the AIM and ICQ networks available on some servers, but the ones on Jabber.org have been blocked by AOL... nice huh?

    1. Re:Better Link by Malc · · Score: 1

      I tried Jabber about a year ago. I need interoperability with MSN and Yahoo messenger networks, which Jabber offered. Unfortunately when I tried it, the bridges to those networks were too unreliable to use. As I know nobody using the Jabber protocol I ditched it and stuck to MSN Msgr (yuck!) for work and Yahoo Msgr for everything else. Jabber is a very nice concept, but when I tried it, it was unpolished, buggy, and didn't support all of the IM features I required (e.g. communicating whilst appearing offline as Yahoo Msgr allows, or receiving offline messages).

      Anybody know if network reliability has improved enough that other IM clients can be uninstalled?

    2. Re:Better Link by CoJoNEs · · Score: 1

      get miranda at least for icq and msn
      http://miranda-icq.sourceforge.net

    3. Re:Better Link by bman08 · · Score: 1

      I have been using gabber to connect with mostly msn messenger people for about 5 months. During that time it's worked flawlessly for me.

    4. Re:Better Link by cetan · · Score: 1

      I tried out Jabber a while ago, but grew frustrated with it and switch to Trillian. (www.trillian.cc) The downside to Trillian is that it's Windows-only for now.

      --
      In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
    5. Re:Better Link by XBL · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think the MSN and Yahoo transports on the Jabber.org server has been working reliably for some time.

      For ICQ and AIM, you can probably find some lesser-used Jabber servers with the transports active, and not blocked. JabberView.com has a small list of other servers.

      Me, I just use my Jabber.org account, but cross-link to transports on other servers that actually work.

      Of course, you can run your own server and transports. Heck, you could even do it on your own box if you want to. Just run icq.localhost and aim.localhost along with jabberd localhost, but still use your user@jabber.org or whatever as your main Jabber account. It's easy to do.

    6. Re:Better Link by ASCIIMan · · Score: 2
      Try trillian. I haven't run AIM since the new version came out.

      It supports AIM, ICQ, Yahoo!, MSN, and IRC.

    7. Re:Better Link by xtremex · · Score: 1

      Trillian is windows only! I dont use windows. You should specify this

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    8. Re:Better Link by PoiBoy · · Score: 1
      Trillian sounds like a useful app since it supports AIM, Yahoo, etc. all at once.

      Unfortunately, it's Windows only, and I've been Windows-free for six months!!!

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    9. Re:Better Link by Malc · · Score: 2

      Hey thanks: that looks pretty slick. What's more, I use Windows more that Linux, so I'm more likely to try it than the Gabber that other people mentioned.

      You wouldn't happen to know if it allows me to appear offline for different networks? If I go online to talk to a friend on Yahoo IM, I don't want somebody at work on MSN IM popping up a message and expecting a reply!

    10. Re:Better Link by SonCorn · · Score: 1

      try everybuddy for linux, it works great and supports AIM, MSN, Yaho,ICQ, and more I think.

      --
      What good is a used up world, and how could it be worth having? --Sting
    11. Re:Better Link by Artemis · · Score: 1

      Gabber is Linux (well it certainly doesn't run on Windows) only! Therefore all posts mentioning any software should be forced to mention what OS the software runs on, just to suit people that are too lazy to check for themselves. Trillian is a good peice of softare, along with everybuddy and Gabber, but stop complaing when software mentioned in a comment only works on Windows, remember, it IS the most popular OS out there, plus there ARE perfectly good alternatives (like everybuddy) out there for non-windows OS's.

    12. Re:Better Link by berzerke · · Score: 1

      My cousin runs trillion, and it does seem to cause problems with ICQ. He can recieve messages, but everything he sends to me is blank. When he switches to a real ICQ client, everything works fine. Be warned.

    13. Re:Better Link by zaffir · · Score: 1

      You can specify which network(s) you want to connect to at startup, and then connect/disconnect from the networks it supports individually whenever you want.

      --
      "Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
    14. Re:Better Link by kesuki · · Score: 1

      Not only can you change your connection status independantly for each network, you can sustain multiple connections to each network. I currently find that I need to run two connections to AIM in order to see who is really online. This is probablly due to server side issues, it IS AOL afterall.

    15. Re:Better Link by xtremex · · Score: 1

      Yes, but 90% of /. users are Linux users (or just SAY they use Linux but are too scared to rid themselves of their dependancy to windows)

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    16. Re:Better Link by kesuki · · Score: 1

      This is only with extremely old versions of ICQ. I can't believe you're still running the old icq98 client -- it's been four years already and that version crashed virtually every computer I ran it on.

    17. Re:Better Link by snake_dad · · Score: 2

      Allright, I'll just use my +1 to say that Trillian is windows-only. All you linux dudes: move along, nothing to see here...

      Ok, still here? :-) Trillian is nice! The darkbevel skin is cute... Anyway, I can recommend this program, however it does have some strange quirks. My sounds suddenly stopped working, and it doesn't remember some settings. But that hasn't stopped me from using it. Well worth a look, especially if you use more than one type of IM client now.

      --
      karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
    18. Re:Better Link by snake_dad · · Score: 2

      if you see the msn message pop up, wait 2 minutes and then switch to away. It'll just look like a standard timeout }:->

      But yes, Trillian does support different online status for different networks

      --
      karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
    19. Re:Better Link by Artemis · · Score: 1

      That's why ever log ever seen from /. puts IE4+ at over 50% of the browser usage for /. visitors? They my say they are using Linux, but a large majority of them probably also browse /. quite often from work, or from other Windows systems, hence, IE.

    20. Re:Better Link by Malc · · Score: 1

      90% of /. users are Linux users, eh? Can you substanciate that claim?

      I'm a Linux user, a Windows user and a Mac OS user... perhaps I could claim that of the /. users, 90% use Linux, 95% use Windows and 15% use Mac OS?

    21. Re:Better Link by xtremex · · Score: 1

      Well it IS linux-centric news site. Even if half of the people on here are trolls. I use Linux, BeOs and the BSd's. I use Linux at work because I am IN the IT department, and it's the tool that gets my job done. So, what you're saying is, the people who say they use Linx, really don't? I wouldn't be surprised

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    22. Re:Better Link by nyquil · · Score: 1

      try gaim.sourceforge.net, it does AIM, ICQ, Y!, MSN, IRC, Gadu-Gadu (whatever that is), Zephyr (whatever that is). in addition to those neat features, it will also balance your checkbook, reuse your postage prepaid junkmail envelopes, shampoo your carpet (and cat if you've got one). seriously tho, all the protocols run on thier own threads, so you can enable/disable them at any time without recompiling, you can also log in/out of specific accounts and whatnot. in any case its very nice, very stable, and very nice.

    23. Re:Better Link by Malc · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not saying that people are being untruthful about their Linux usage. For myself, I run Debian on my mail and web server, and for any other activities I want to associate with my domain that I host at home. Most of my desktop usage is under Win2K for work and home, and I feel little need to switch Linux for that. Thus, I am both a Linux and a Windows user. Anyway, I think you exaggerate that 90% of the people here are Linux users. It would be nice if it were true, but I think it unlikely.

      Also, this site is news for nerds, with an obvious Linux bias. It definitely isn't a Linux-centric news site. I've been regularly reading this site for 3 or 4 years. I would guess that the Linux stories are not a majority, but just a sizeable minority. However, the site is Linux friendly, which puts it in a minority on the web... hence the voracity that Linux users show in their support of the site.

    24. Re:Better Link by berzerke · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'm running the latest version of kxicq2.

  13. Server-side fix? by cscx · · Score: 1

    Beat me to it! I was just gonna submit this. There is a nice article on the Washington Posthttp about this. What bewilders me is that AOL claims that "the problem will be fixed soon, and users won't have to download anything." I have no idea how they can fix this server-side, or is that just a sly way of saying "we're gonna flag AIM and tell it to bring up one of those annoying dialog boxes that says 'There is a new version of AIM available (4.5.87.3413.321.4342)! Go download it now!'" Anyway, I'm logging off AIM now... unlike the XP UPnP flaw, the firewall can't help me here...

    1. Re:Server-side fix? by krony · · Score: 1

      Another option to actually logging off of AIM would be to setup your preferences so only users on your buddy list can contact you, as mentioned somewhere in the article. Then change it back once the fix has been applied.

      Of course this assumes that you can trust your buddies...

    2. Re:Server-side fix? by ZxCv · · Score: 2

      Well, the w00w00 guys claim AOL is going to fix it server-side, so if they believe it, I would too. My guess is whatever features that are required to exploit this require some communication through the server to work. If this is the case, its a simple matter of doing buffer checks at the server before they're sent out to the recipient.

      Until they do fix it, you can either use AIM Filter or change your preferences so that only people on your buddy list can contact you. Neither is 100% foolproof, but definitely better than nothing.

      --

      Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
    3. Re:Server-side fix? by glenkim · · Score: 1

      This would be an easy fix. The exploit works when one user sends a game session request to another user. This request is sent through the server. The server can then do a cursory check of the request to see if it's validly encoded. If not, throw it out. Thus, you have your simple server side fix.

    4. Re:Server-side fix? by Pakaran2 · · Score: 1

      What if the hacker IM Images their victim first?

  14. Yet another reason by the_rev_matt · · Score: 3, Troll

    I stopped using ICQ years ago because it was so script-kiddie friendly and AIM not long after. I'm quite happy using Jabber with a gateway to Yahoo Messenger, thankyouverymuch.

    --
    this is getting old and so are you

    blog

    1. Re:Yet another reason by rastachops · · Score: 1

      Id suggest that you give Trillian a try, as this can connect to ICQ, AIM, Yahoo & MSN in one. (for windoze atm, they are gonna port to *nix once they release the final). I like it, mainly caus I have contacts on most msging protocols & it allows me to stay in touch.

      Im not sure, but would have thought that this would remove the dangers of using ICQ / AIM.

  15. Abstract Error by strider(+corinth+) · · Score: 5, Informative

    The abstract for the article is in error: it reads, "The non-profit security team w00w00.org started off 2002 by uncovering a serious flaw in AOL's Instant Messenger protocol... This flaw can enable remote users to execute code on any machine logged into the AOL IM service.". The flaw isn't in the protocol itself but in the client, and therefore doesn't actually affect "any machine logged into the AOL IM service". It sounds like AOL is going to prevent the sending of exploit packets at the server level to avoid requesting all of their Windows users to upgrade, but those of us using Linux or another OS should be fine regardless.

    --

    Love justice; desire mercy.
  16. Karma-whoring Ad (*koff* *koff*) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is the same link from the article you fool...

  17. AIM will always be a problem by I_redwolf · · Score: 3, Informative

    ALWAYS, if the protocol isn't openly documented and severely tested over a communications line for security it is insecure.

    I recommend the majority of people I deal with use jabber (this is not some plug for jabber; it's just at the end of the day, it's more secure and yet accomplishes the same goal AIM etc etc have)

    If you are using AIM, do yourself a favor a pickup a jabber client, you won't be sorry.

    1. Re:AIM will always be a problem by ZxCv · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Um, the protocol has nothing to do with this security issue. The security issue is in the Windows client implementation of this protocol. For another thing, the AIM protocol IS completely documented by AOL-- at least to the point where you can create a basic AIM clone using just that documentation.

      Once again, the problem is in the Windows client and not the protocol, and the protocol is openly documented. Get your facts straight next time.

      --

      Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
    2. Re:AIM will always be a problem by I_redwolf · · Score: 1

      "For another thing, the AIM protocol IS completely documented by AOL-- at least to the point where you can create a basic AIM clone using just that documentation."

      My facts are straight.. The protocol IS NOT OPENLY documented, why not talk to some of the authors of gaim or kinkatta. You obviously don't know how many times their have been issues simply because the protocol is not openly documented granted the parts they open are so that non-windows platforms get BASIC functionality and that's even a problem for AOL; again ask the gaim authors specifically.

      The security issue is in the windows client, I understood that; it's only a matter of time before the issue is with the protocol because of the above. People like you (at least from what your comment suggest) scare me because you'll settle for something like having a protocol that transfers data (whether public or private) and that millions of people use; insecure with closed parts and basic functionality.

    3. Re:AIM will always be a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    4. Re:AIM will always be a problem by blonde+rser · · Score: 1

      hey I use jabber all the time; it's a great protocol that has the potential to reach far beyond IM uses. BUT I wouldn't go bragging about the strength of a system that has yet to set up passwords that aren't kept server side in plain text. Yes I have read the arguments why it as to be like this for now but those are only explanations and does not make the situation any better. From what I can tell rewriting the server- although necessary in its own right, will not suffice either. Changes need to be addressed in the actual protocal.

    5. Re:AIM will always be a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm thats unofficial. the original poster is correct. AOL hasn't fully openly documented that protocol.

  18. Now they need a sound to go with their IM by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 5, Funny

    How about the "you got mail" dude do one that says "j00 g0t 0wN3D"!

    One of Many Instant Messenger Exploits (MIME for short), I'm sure.

    {if you are going to assinate a Mime, would you use a silencer?}

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
    1. Re:Now they need a sound to go with their IM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That silencer bit belongs to Steven Wright, btw.

  19. Bug in the implementation, not the protocol by noc · · Score: 5, Informative
    The non-profit security team w00w00.org started off 2002 by uncovering a serious flaw in AOL's Instant Messenger protocol.

    The problem is in the implementation, not in the protocol. If it were in the protocol, that would make all clients at risk. As it is, only the official Windows client is vulnerable, because it implements game requests without checking for buffer overflow. I really don't understand why people still write code this way -- buffer overflows are so easy to prevent.

    Somewhat (but only somewhat) offtopic: why on earth doesn't ./ at leas browse through the links they post? It's not like they don't have the manpower. If they'd even looked at the article, they'd have caught this...

    1. Re:Bug in the implementation, not the protocol by kaisyain · · Score: 1

      By "write code this way" do you mean "in C"?

    2. Re:Bug in the implementation, not the protocol by noc · · Score: 1
      By "write code this way" do you mean "in C"?

      Partly, yes. I only use C when I need to, for a variety of reasons, including this. But even still, there's no excuse, because I write something close to memory-safe code in C. With a fairly small set of utility functions and macros, you can get rid of the buffer-overflow potential of using the standard C library. From there, you just need to very consistently ensure that the functions you write make the callee responsible for checking for buffer ranges, etc., and not the caller. This is much easier to do than to make sure that the caller check this, because there tends to be more calling points (unless you call the function only once :).

      This is in stark contrast to the ordinary C style, which is to assume that everything is big enough, and to tell the function consumer to be careful to ensure that that's true. From experience, we know that that's not a reasonable expectation. So, while switching to a more resonable language would solve this problem, even for people who insist on sticking with C, this is purely a result of reckless practice.

    3. Re:Bug in the implementation, not the protocol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about heap overflow exploits?

    4. Re:Bug in the implementation, not the protocol by noc · · Score: 1
      What about heap overflow exploits?

      One of us doesn't know what a heap overflow is, and I suspect it's not me. "Heap overflow" just means buffer overflow. If my memory is laid out like:
      ...AAAAAAAAAAAxxBBBBBBBBBB...
      Where the A's are some buffer A, the B's are some buffer B, and the x's are unused due to alignment issues. A buffer overflow occurs when I start writing in A, but keep going through the x's and into B's space. This only happens in languages without automatic bounds checking, and when porogrammers don't check the bounds themselves. If you go reread my previous post, you'll see that this is exactly what I was talking about preventing.

    5. Re:Bug in the implementation, not the protocol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      read the article more carefully. the bug is only exploitable in the Official Windows client because the Official Windows client is the only client which supports the game extensions of the protocol. if other versions of the client supported the game extension, they would be vulnerable too.

      From the advisory:
      "This does not affect the
      non-Windows versions, because the non-Windows versions currently do
      not yet support the feature that this vulnerability occurs in."

      If the protocol is detailed enough, then it could potentially encompass this vulnerability.

  20. Don't shoot the messenger, man by mblase · · Score: 2, Redundant

    Slashdot just linked to the story; they didn't originate it. They would've had no way to report the information (at least not in Slashdot's usual manner) without pointing people to the actual discoverer of the problem, unless AOL has an article on it somewhere.

    It is very irresponsible of the original writer to post an explicit method to exploit the crack, however. At least there's one redeeming feature: the article also tells readers how to protect themselves from the crack by altering their preferences, and also that AOL is fixing the problem server-side.

    The crack was/is already out there, for people who enjoy using that sort of thing. Don't blame this site for pointing people to it just because Slashdot has a higher readership.

    1. Re:Don't shoot the messenger, man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the problem that Wind_Walker is referring to is the fact that Slashdot's readership consists of a large number of leftists. Crackers tend to be very right-wing and so the people that read cracker sites like w00w00 are not as likely to use the remote exploit for communistic purposes. However, when you post a link to the exploit on Slashdot you immediately give all of the Marxist-leaning people on this site the ability to break into people's computers and use them for communistic wealth-redistributing purposes (i.e., stealing credit card numbers, etc.)

      I'm not saying that this story should not be publicized, only that Slashdot is not the best place to do it. If this had been run on WorldNetDaily there would have been no problems.

  21. Hole? by neoevans · · Score: 1

    I don't understand the concern.

    AIM and MSN Messenger ARE the security hole. Anything running on a PC which keeps a port open is a major security risk. Connections should not use any sort of "keep alive" to unknown remote hosts.

    And just giving an application to "feature" to accept all inbound connections has to be the worst idea any service provider ever had. I'm just surprised more attacks haven't been made on the IM applications.

    It's likely because of all of today's Elite Haxor types know very little about the fundamentals of IP. I bet the guys at Phrack already knew about this and many other "holes" in the IM protocols.

    --
    "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
    1. Re:Hole? by cscx · · Score: 1
      Anything running on a PC which keeps a port open is a major security risk.

      And just giving an application to "feature" to accept all inbound connections has to be the worst idea any service provider ever had.

      This looks like 100% Genuine FlameBait® to me because wouldn't that include every running unfirewalled Internet server in the world?

      Oh, yeah. MSN Messenger had nothing to do with this. I don't know why I'm even replying to this post.

    2. Re:Hole? by neoevans · · Score: 1

      My point was that BOTH AIM and MSN Messenger keep a port open on even firewalled networks and yes, evey unfirewalled Internet server in the world is vulnerable, that's why there IS firewalls.

      Spoofing a connection from such an application is perhaps the easiest way to subvert an Internet connection.

      Perhaps your corporate network allows IM services?

      I think not.

      --
      "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
    3. Re:Hole? by gaudior · · Score: 1
      Perhaps your corporate network allows IM services?

      Yes. it does. Over port 80. Most of our managers use AIM to communicate with subordinates.

    4. Re:Hole? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      man, you are *elite*! you can hack with me and my friend joey [ultralaser] and lord nikon and cereal killer and the phantom phreak! oh - let's not forget the beautiful kate libby [alias acid burn].

      i'm sure you've been around for quite a while with comments like:

      "It's likely because of all of today's Elite Haxor types know very little about the fundamentals of IP."

      Go talk to your "friends" at phrack...i'm sure they love you over there.

    5. Re:Hole? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My point was that BOTH AIM and MSN Messenger keep a port open on even firewalled networks and yes, evey unfirewalled Internet server in the world is vulnerable, that's why there IS firewalls.

      Explain to me how AIM opens up ports on my Linksys firewall? Does it magically know to browse to http://192.168.1.1, log in with correct username and password and forward the ports?

    6. Re:Hole? by neoevans · · Score: 1

      To all above replies:

      I may be mislead or even straight-up wrong, but Flaimbait is as Flaimbait does, and Anonymous Cowards don't exist except for each other...;)

      And Happy New Year to all, especially the movie buff who liked Hackers!

      --
      "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
    7. Re:Hole? by Tom7 · · Score: 1

      Not *every* program is vulnerable, dude. It is certainly possible to write secure software. (For instance, I trust the FTP server I wrote pretty well.)

    8. Re:Hole? by neoevans · · Score: 1

      This is a good point. One worthy of an intelligent response. Thank You for not /.'ing!!

      It's not the program I feel is insecure, but the concept of a 'keep alive' protocol being allowed through an otherwise secure connection.

      For Example, your FTP software only connects when processing a request (ls, get, etc...) and otherwise the connection times out as per the server's own rules. IM software does not time out. It keeps the connections alive until otherwise specified, leaving time for someone with the patience and a packet sniffer to spoof that connection and possibly use that connection maliciously.

      Of course, this is possible with ANY network connection. My point is that the IM programs aren't very secure and by keeping their connections alive, give hackers the time they need to act.

      Anyways, I'm beating the cat a little too much here. Cheers!

      --
      "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
  22. Code Red. by saint10 · · Score: 1

    How long till someone scripts up a nice "code red/nimda" self propagating malware that runs rampant across the internet using this new flaw?

    If so... it is going to be even worse.. It was next to impossible to get all the IIS servers on the net updated. Imagine updating every AIM client.

    1. Re:Code Red. by damiam · · Score: 1
      Imagine updating every AIM client.

      That should be easy, since all AIM client connect to a central server. I dunno if the client has an auto-update feature, but if it doesn't, all AOL has to do is send a message saying "Upgrade now or the evil terrorist h4x0rs will get into your computer" and everyone will upgrade.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    2. Re:Code Red. by Hatechall · · Score: 1

      Or they will click through that without reading it like most of the users I know.
      Many of the tickets i get for computer fixes that are actually just caused when the user blows through the "plugin download" popup and doesnt know why there is a little red x instead of the stuff he or she is used to.
      Im sure that it would solve a great deal but I would not trust it enough to feel secure that all our many clueless vp's (and concequently, our network) are safe

    3. Re:Code Red. by damiam · · Score: 2

      AOL could say "We won't let you on unless you download this update".

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    4. Re:Code Red. by Pakaran2 · · Score: 1

      You really think that AOL is going to like every user downloading the new client (read: hundreds of Tbytes of transfer within a few days) when they can fix it server-side and pretend it's okay?

    5. Re:Code Red. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah true. I like that idea better.

  23. It couldn't be... by iiii · · Score: 4, Funny
    It couldn't be, because
    AOL is deeply committed to your security. We use state-of-the-art technology to keep your personal information as secure as possible. We also have put in place privacy protection control systems designed to ensure that the personal data you share with AOL is safe and private. In addition, AOL keeps your password strictly confidential, and all authentication for the Service is performed on AOL's secure servers. Sites participating in the Service may not collect or store AOL password information.

    From this site.

    --
    Light cup, beer drink, thin so chain, neck turtle fat, man I won't say it again
    1. Re:It couldn't be... by snake_dad · · Score: 2
      to ensure that the personal data you share with AOL is safe and private.

      Well, the are right. This is about data that is not shared rwxr----- but rwxrwxrwx :-)

      --
      karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
  24. Spam om ICQ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Any idea how to avoid spam on instant messengers?

    I had to stop using both ICQ and AIM because my box was swamped with "wanna have hot sex" crap.

    1. Re:Spam om ICQ by motardo · · Score: 1

      don't publish your name publicly in the ICQ white pages, and whatever else is in AIM. That cuts down on about 99% of the spam. There's no way to stop the spammers who hit all the ICQ UIN's going from 1 on to whatever the newest UIN is, that'd be impossible client side, but on the other hand, you can set ICQ up to only accept people in your contact list.

      -motardo

    2. Re:Spam om ICQ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it's really difficult to stop spam messages on ICQ. You just go to your security settings and turn on 'accept messages only from users on my contact list'. In addition turn off the web and email pager stuff, and you're virtually spam-free on ICQ.

  25. Lesser of two evils. by eAndroid · · Score: 1

    Well sure, AOL has this little tiny hole. But atleast it isn't as bad as that Passport thing that MSN refuses to fix.

    --

    I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
    1. Re:Lesser of two evils. by Utopia · · Score: 1

      and what passport bug is that ?

      and this is not a 'little tiny hole' in AOL IM - it's a crater.

    2. Re:Lesser of two evils. by goldspider · · Score: 1
      "But atleast it isn't as bad as that Passport thing that MSN refuses to fix."


      Don't you mean Passport in general? ;)

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    3. Re:Lesser of two evils. by ZxCv · · Score: 2

      Passport itself, obviously.

      --

      Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
    4. Re:Lesser of two evils. by Pakaran2 · · Score: 1

      When you start a hotmail/passport account, you get the other too.

      However, the hotmail account is closed if you leave it inactive more than N days.

      Then, l33+ h4x0r skips along and creates a hotmail account under your old name, changes the password on both accounts through it, and maxes out your credit card.

      One might note that passport is deeply integrated into Windows NT 5.1 aka XP.

  26. Trillian by svwolfpack · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've recently started using trillian (www.trillian.cc) for all my IMing needs... (yes, it does connect to the AIM server, among others such as MSN messenger, yahoo, and ICQ) I'm assuming it probably doesn't have this flaw, which is obviously a nice feature. And as far as I know, it's the only really solid alternative to a) having a billion separate IM programs b) using hated AOL software.

    1. Re:Trillian by m3000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I second that recommendation. Unfortunatly there is no Linux client yet, but whenever I'm in Windows it's THE best instant messanging program. And it finally support file transfers, the one thing it used to be missing. Plus it looks really cool, with many skins to choose from, and it lets you alias your buddy contacts, my main gripe about the official AIM client. It's well worth the download.

    2. Re:Trillian by Luminous · · Score: 2

      Don't forget it also offers a streamline IRC client. Trillian really is the best option right now with a terrific price (read: free) but please donate a few bucks if possible.

      --
      This is not the way to build a lasting empire.
    3. Re:Trillian by Daniel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, there's always Everybuddy, which I used for a while. I never used the non-AIM services much though, so these days I've reverted to Gaim. It has support for ICQ and other protocols (MSN, Jabber, IRC, Zephyr, ..?), but I've never tried it myself.

      Daniel

      --
      Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
    4. Re:Trillian by malevolence · · Score: 1

      I wholeheatedly agree. Trillian kicks much ass. Haven't loaded up any other clients since I installed it. Even got a couple of the sales droids to use it.

    5. Re:Trillian by infiniti99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Trillian is a very nice idea, and solves the problem immediately. Unfortunately, it is not a long-term solution. Trillian is still at the mercy of the "big 4" (AIM/ICQ/MSN/Yahoo), and encourages the continuing use of these closed services.

      Remember the old days of the internet? How you couldn't send an e-mail from Prodigy to AOL because they were separate networks? That's what we have here, but in IM form. The solution was not to build some all-in-one Compuserve-Prodigy-AOL-bloat app, but rather to just decide upon an open email protocol. Trillian is the all-in-one approach.

      I recommend switching to Jabber. It will allow you to communicate with other IM services through serverside transport modules. Use transports as a transition, to communicate with people who have not yet switched to Jabber. The ultimate goal, however, should be to ditch the transports entirely.

      Most importantly, Jabber is its own open and distributed IM system, so you will always be able to chat no matter what the "big 4" do. Isn't it comforting to know that?

      If you don't care about promoting an open system, or don't see the problem with closed IM systems, then Trillian may be just the program for you. But remember it is not trying to solve the greater problem.

    6. Re:Trillian by Howie · · Score: 2

      It's also an ICQ client that doesn't try to get me order flowers, send SMS, play games, use video-conferencing, or pop up banners. It has a consistent UI compared to ICQ, and for some reason, I seem to get no spam ICQ via Trillian, whereas I get tons with ICQ2000b and the same UIN.

      Trillian is v.nice nowadays. If only it supported Jabber too - the windows Jabber client was kind of crappy last time I tried it.

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    7. Re:Trillian by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2

      Jabber is great if you want IM without those pesky "friends" or "family."

    8. Re:Trillian by Quarters · · Score: 4, Informative

      Jabber is great except for four very pesky problems:

      1) You have to connect to a Jabber server
      2) You have to find a Jabber server that is running all of the message protocols you want/need
      3) Most servers are run by regular people, and they're not always on when you want/need them.
      4) Your buddy list is stored server side, so you can not easily move to another server. If your sever goes down you'll have to recreate your entire buddly list on a new server if you want access.

      Trillian, on the other hand, connects to the chat providers native servers and uses XML as a translation mechanism on the client side. The chances of Yahoo's chat server, AOL's chat server, ICQ's servers, or MSN's chat servers going down is very very slim. I used to use Jabber but gave up in frustration when the server I used disappeared for over a week.

    9. Re:Trillian by gadwale · · Score: 1

      Also note that Trillian does not require logging into a gateway server like everybuddy and jabber and indiatimesmessenger. I don't like submitting passwords to gateway servers.

      I found jabber to be buggy and gateway servers are sometimes down.

    10. Re:Trillian by jerk · · Score: 1

      Trillian is also not "some all-in-one Compuserve-Prodigy-AOL-bloat app". It's not even bloat. It actually takes up 5mb less memory than just ICQ. Trillian is by far the best multi-IM client that I've used!

    11. Re:Trillian by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      To stop the ICQ spam, go under preferences, security and click accept only messages from ppl on my contact list, do not accept wwpager, do not accept email express messages all under ignore. Then under general click on my authorization is required befor users add me to their contact list.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    12. Re:Trillian by Howie · · Score: 1

      or, I could use a less shitty program that does all that by default, looks nicer, doesn't crash randomly, and works how I expect, without advertising or other garbage.

      [I'm pretty sure I've done all that on the PC in question, although I ran ICQ on three different ones, so I could have dreamt it]

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    13. Re:Trillian by cos(0) · · Score: 1

      << Trillian is v.nice nowadays. If only it supported Jabber too - the windows Jabber client was kind of crappy last time I tried it. >>

      I used the 3l33t powers that my $10 donation gave me to e-mail the developers with the suggestion to add the Jabber protocol to its suite.
      If enough people do the same, they'll have no choice but to comply... please consider doing this even if you don't have a registration code -- your suggestion will still be read.

    14. Re:Trillian by BrookHarty · · Score: 2

      slight off topic, but im replying to svwolfpack...

      Msn messenger doesnt support socks5 correctly, but I was able to use trillian for msn thru socks. In fact every IM it has aol/icq/yahoo/msn and IRC works thru a socks server now.

    15. Re:Trillian by WWWWolf · · Score: 1
      Your buddy list is stored server side, so you can not easily move to another server. If your sever goes down you'll have to recreate your entire buddly list on a new server if you want access.

      Then get a client that can import and export user lists (I know Gabber knows how to do that)...

    16. Re:Trillian by Quarters · · Score: 2

      That just replaces one problem with another. Now, instead of having to recreate my buddy list I have to take the time to try a bunch of different Jabber clients until I find one that has all of the features I want. That still isn't a panacea, though. The issues with finding a server, finding a stable server, and finding a server with the transports you want still exist.

      Trillian solves all of those problems.

      Jabber is a nice idea, but it's implementation is lacking in a number of important areas.

  27. Microsoft is number one again! by Uttles · · Score: 1

    Or at least they were the first to have this bug uncovered.

    On a serious note, is it being ultra-paranoid to think that maybe these companies are including these holes intentionally? To me it seems like a pretty huge mistake to allow a random person to take over control of a computer remotely, not just a small oversight. AOL and MS aren't exactly angels, and maybe I've been watching too many movies, but this seems like something they put in by design in order to spy on certain individuals for stealing code, deleting components of non-MS software so it won't work, etc.

    --

    ~ now you know
    1. Re:Microsoft is number one again! by jcoy42 · · Score: 1
      is it being ultra-paranoid to think that maybe these companies are including these holes intentionally?
      In a word, Yes.

      These are typical buffer overruns. This happens when you don't check to make sure the amount of data you are writing to a buffer will actually fit in the buffer. It's a hideously common programming error that rarely shows up in testing.

      And it isn't just an AOL/MS problem- *nix systems have suffered this numerous times as well (most recently the /usr/bin/login problem).
      --
      Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
    2. Re:Microsoft is number one again! by arkanes · · Score: 1

      1) This has nothing to do with Microsoft
      2) There are MUCH better ways to implement backdoors than buffer overflow exploits

    3. Re:Microsoft is number one again! by spookyfluke · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but you're being a little bit paranoid dude.

      --
      you.bases.each{|base|base.are_belong_to=us}
    4. Re:Microsoft is number one again! by Uttles · · Score: 2

      Well, you all are missing my point. I know there's better ways to implement a backdoor, and I know that the Microsoft problem was completely different, but it had the same end result, someone could remotely control another person's computer. Yeah, exploiting a buffer overflow isn't the prettiest way to do it, but I wasn't trying to get into the details of the matter, just the premise that companies might intentionally do something like that on purpose.

      --

      ~ now you know
  28. Gaim and TOC by Saint+Nobody · · Score: 5, Informative

    well, here's yet another reason to be using TOC (as opposed to Oscar, the newer of the two AIM protocols.) TOC is/was an open protocol, and i've had very little problem with it. admittedly, it doesn't have all the "features" that Oscar has, but if all you want is chat, and you don't care a whole lot about file transfers, et al. TOC is more than sufficient. plus, unlike Oscar, AOL doesn't seem to arbitrarily change the protocol. And it seems to be more stable, server-side. I've had countless instances of hearing the dispaired cries of "AIM is down" from throughout my dorm without having a problem. TOC goes down occasionally, but not nearly as much, from my experience.

    as for clients, i recommend Gaim for Linux. You can select the TOC protocol in the Account Editor window.

    <asbestos>yes, i know there's a million things that Oscar can do that TOC can't. but I don't care. TOC just works better from my experience, especially when clients have to release new versions to work around AOL changing the Oscar protocol slightly in order to screw over MS.</asbestos>

    --
    #define F(x) int main(){printf(#x,10,#x);}
    F(#define F(x) int main(){printf(#x,10,#x);}%cF(%s))
    1. Re:Gaim and TOC by kilgore_47 · · Score: 1

      I agree that gaim is an excellent client.

      The dual-protocol support is cool, but every time I've tried to connect using oscar (in gaim) the AOL server has kicked me off for being unauthorized.

      Oh well, at least it's TOC support has been rock solid so far.

      --
      ___
      The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
    2. Re:Gaim and TOC by gotak · · Score: 1

      Isn't the TOC protocol sort of dying at this time?

      I know i have had no ends of trouble with licq until i "upgraded" to the cvs version where they finially support the newer protocol.

    3. Re:Gaim and TOC by Saint+Nobody · · Score: 2

      true, few people use TOC. but there are those of us who still use it.

      as for licq... yes, the newer versions of icq use Oscar, but the older ones weren't TOC. They were the ICQ protocol, which was horrible. virtually all the security in the protocol depended on client-side implementation. thus, wich unofficial clients, you can spoof UINs, see people's ip addresses when they have the 'hide ip' option checked, etc. But even with newer versions, we still have the problem of Oscar being a proprietary protocol. ...But then again, i'm not sure if the original protocol was published or reverse engineered. But at least they never made arbitrary changes in the protocol to stop "unauthorized access."

      --
      #define F(x) int main(){printf(#x,10,#x);}
      F(#define F(x) int main(){printf(#x,10,#x);}%cF(%s))
    4. Re:Gaim and TOC by metallidrone · · Score: 1

      I agree with you about the usefulness of TOC for simple needs.

      To correct a minor nit, though, the "changing" you refer to was never really a protocol change. It was discovered that AOL had the ability to request the md5 hash of an arbitrary portion of the client: what they would change was the offset/length the server would request.

      See the gaim explanation for details.

      Specifically, for those who don't wish to click the link:

      When the server sends the 0001 001f SNAC, it also sends an offset and a length as the data content. You then read the specified number of bytes from a file (I'll tell you which file later, though you've probably already guessed), starting at the specified offset. It's then run through md5 (which outputs 16 bytes), and is sent back to the server. (4th paragraph down in the link)

      Technically, Gaim is still susceptible to attempts at disconnecting it (I think--since it doesn't have the official client to get md5's from), but a solution for that problem already exists in Jabber's aim-transport: you tell it where you have a copy of AIM (a specific version, when I last updated it, which was ages ago), and it will always respond to the server with the right md5 hash (unless they decide to lock out a certain version of their client--unlikely).

  29. Poor Jabber, try Trillian! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I tried Jabber hoping to get away from banner-ridden icq. But it was unpolished, crashed, and loss connections frequently (I ran the windows version). I recently came upon a better option: http://www.trillian.org Very smooth and polished -- and you don't have to get a "Trillian" IM account just to use it (jabber requires you to obtain a "Jabber" IM account)

  30. retard... by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 2

    It came down off Bugtraq at about 9AM this morning. Everyone already knew about it. And, unless you're one of those security-through-obscurity people, you should have no problem with this kind of thing. (It's not like they wouldn't be available to people otherwise...)

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
  31. Here's how to block AOL at the firewall by EaglesNest · · Score: 0

    I did a little search on usenet. It revealed what to block for any firewall admins out there. Does anyone have better information? We tested the blocking, but had a few problems. The client keeps finding ways to connect.

    From: Charles Newman (newmanc6619 @ softhome.net)
    Subject: Re: block AOL instant messenger
    Newsgroups: comp.security.firewalls
    Date: 2001-10-28 12:16:00 PST

    That is not enough. It could still be access through an open proxy, on
    ports 23, 1080, 8000, or 12001. You need to also route stuff through a
    SOCKS proxy, and have your proxy block out the following ranges of
    IP addresses, and that should stop AOL instant messenger

    205.187.7.*
    205.187.8.*
    64.12.24.*
    64.12.25.*
    152.163.241.*

    I am about to make my impentrable filtering system even better, by
    putting in a second computer, that works as a firewall and proxy server, and
    running either XP or 2000. Since all the filtering is done at the server
    level, instead of at the client level, there is no POSSIBLE way that my
    "home-brew" system could be compromised. Windows 2000 and Windows
    XP have security that cannot POSSIBLY be penetrated, and since everything
    runs in "stealth" mode, there is no POSSIBLE way someone could be able
    to figure out how to circumvent my NEW AND IMPROVED "home brew"
    system I am about to build. Basically, all the blocking software on my
    computer now, would be transferred to another computer, which would act
    as a proxy server and firewall.
    Windows XP and 2000 have security that even the most computer saavy
    youngster could not defeat. As I have mentioned before, I have had problems
    inthe past with housekeepers who bring kids with them, and said kids having
    tried to access my computer.
    Even the best hackers in the world would not be able to get through
    thekind of "home brew" filtering system I am planning right now. As the old
    addage goes, "What cannot be seen cannot be hacked". Since XP works like 2000,
    it will put an END to virtually nearly all computer viruses. Every virus out
    there runs on either DOS, or Windows 9x. Windows NT/XP/2000 has
    security a virus could not get through. That is why UNIX is still used in
    some
    places, UNIX is not vulnerable to viruses, like DOS and Win9X are.
    Server-based filtering cannot be circumvented, if requests to ports
    80,1080,3128, and 8080 are blocked. They block 99.9 percent of all the
    known open proxy servers in the world. The ONLY way you can POSSIBLY
    circumvent a served-based filtering system is to use an outside proxy
    server.
    That is why served based filtering has become more popular. Server-based
    solutions are 100 PERCENT *IMPOSSIBLE* to circumvent. Also, as I
    have just said, Windows XP and 2000 cannot be hacked, becuase of the
    security measures in place on those two operatingh systems.

    Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
    I want to block AOL Instant Messenger what port does it use? How Can I Block
    It?
    >
    > I recall seeing the port number when my daughter was IMing her "buddies".
    >
    > http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers lists several numbers as AOL
    > port numbers.
    >
    > aol 5190/tcp America-Online
    > aol 5190/udp America-Online
    > aol-1 5191/tcp AmericaOnline1
    > aol-1 5191/udp AmericaOnline1
    > aol-2 5192/tcp AmericaOnline2
    > aol-2 5192/udp AmericaOnline2
    > aol-3 5193/tcp AmericaOnline3
    > aol-3 5193/udp AmericaOnline3
    >
    > I'm pretty sure that I saw the 5190 in use when my daughter was IMing.

  32. Wow... by billmaly · · Score: 2

    I'm actually really surprised that holes haven't been already found in these toys.

  33. Heh... first hack... by tcc · · Score: 4, Funny

    Change that annoying incomming Email .wav file...

    "You've got nailed"

    --
    --- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
  34. Thanks by Uttles · · Score: 1

    Wish I had some mod points. I've never heard of trillian before but I'm going to try it out!

    --

    ~ now you know
  35. What about un-offical AIM clients? by DeMorganLaw · · Score: 1

    I use trillian on my Windows 2k machine, it supports AIM, Yahoo, MSN, ICQ and IRC communications. Wonder if they too are exploitable by this.

    1. Re:What about un-offical AIM clients? by SynKKnyS · · Score: 1

      I doubt trillian supports the exploitable features. Remember, trillian isn't a complete clone of AIM.

    2. Re:What about un-offical AIM clients? by jonknee · · Score: 1

      It may be because AOL won't release a patch for you... it's a patch in the server software... Although AIM may have some trash code in it that Trillian doesn't.

    3. Re:What about un-offical AIM clients? by Sparks23 · · Score: 1

      The exploit on AIM is in the 'launch game' functionality. Trillian does not yet support this feature, and both a) reports that it does not, and b) discards/ignores that message type if it is sent anyway. So at least from this exploit, Trillian is safe.

      As far as I know, ALL the AIM clones are safe; I don't believe any of them implement the game-launch request message type, and even if they do most probably check for buffer overflow before randomly executing code. ;)

      There's a discussion about it on the Trillian web-forums.

      --
      --Rachel
  36. Re:Karma-whoring Ad (*koff* *koff*)! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    thanks! I love being a whore... Actually, I didn't see the link... oops. Posting anonymous... to save my precious karma...

  37. Best PR Spin by VivianC · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This has got the best PR response I've ever seen to one of these holes:

    From the Washington Post Story

    A security hole in AOL Time Warner's Instant Messenger program used by millions of users worldwide can let a hacker take full control of a victim's computer, according to security researchers and the company.

    An AOL spokesman said the problem will be fixed soon, and users won't have to download anything.


    Great idea! Why make the user download and test a patch? We can just use this hole that gives us full control of a vitim's computer...

    --
    Viv

    Gmail invites for ip
    1. Re:Best PR Spin by nnd · · Score: 1

      umm, try reading the damn advisory. that goes to the poster and whoever moderated this funny.

  38. Could someone please explain to me? by TheOnlyCoolTim · · Score: 1

    I tried looking through all the files to get an understanding of this but it is way beyond me. Those guys are too l33t I guess.

    The most understanding I could get was that you were supposed to write up your own C code to 0wn the victim, and insert it into the w00aimexp.c source file, compile, and then when you run the exploit it will cause that C code to be run on the victim's computer. Am I right? I gotta learn to program sometime.

    Tim

    --
    Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
    1. Re:Could someone please explain to me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, see, you're a script kiddie then aren't ya?

    2. Re:Could someone please explain to me? by TheOnlyCoolTim · · Score: 1

      No, I never try to |-|@xx0r anyone or anything. I am just interested in how this works and what it is capable of, especially since I use AIM and thus am affected.

      --
      Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
    3. Re:Could someone please explain to me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh shut up, you're a liar, you're a damn liar. Why would you need to know how to run the exploit, you know you're affected so go download trillian or some other aim client so you aren't vunerable and stop worrying about how the exploit works. damn kiddiez

  39. Here's an idea! by spookyfluke · · Score: 1, Informative

    I hope this get moded as "funny" or "I didn't read the article and I'm simply replying because I hate everything that's not linux". This article shows that AOL intends to fix the problem on the server-side.

    --
    you.bases.each{|base|base.are_belong_to=us}
    1. Re:Here's an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope this gets moded as "funny" or "I didn't read the article and I'm simply replying because I hate everything that's not linux"

      No, it's an interesting point. If AOL were to fix the client, then no one would be able to use the exploit to seize control over AOL'ers computers.

      This way, AOL can one the one hand claim that they are "fixing the problem", yet on the other hand AOL Time Warner retains the ability to use their servers to hack into their customers' computers.

      Neat little slight of hand move there!

    2. Re:Here's an idea! by spookyfluke · · Score: 0

      You're paranoid.

      --
      you.bases.each{|base|base.are_belong_to=us}
    3. Re:Here's an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No, it's an interesting point. If AOL were to fix the client, then no one would be able to use the exploit to seize control over AOL'ers computers.

      Since you're so bound and determined to be a tinfoil hat kook, hasn't it occured to you that AOL doesn't need to retain the ability to use this exploit? They already control the client software. They already have the ability to insert any damn backdoor they want. They already are watching you through your bedroom window.

      If AOL evilly intends to run their code on your machine whenever they want, then it does not matter where they are patching this particular exploit, since they already have the ability to run code remotely however they want. If they are not, then patching it on the server does, in one fell swoop, make the exploit untenable whether or not you upgrade your client.

  40. direct connect by 2MuchC0ffeeMan · · Score: 1

    aol said they would make a server side fix, but what about direct connections?

    aim has a feature where you can directly connect to another buddy ip to ip, to send messages, pictures, sounds, whatever...

    server side fixes don't help the people that bypass the server.

    --
    Runnin' On Empty .... I'm Still Alive
    1. Re:direct connect by vortigern00 · · Score: 1

      You cannot make a direct connection without the consent of the other user.

    2. Re:direct connect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So there might still be some potential danger of someone tricking a user to a direct conneciton and then applying the exploit?

    3. Re:direct connect by Pakaran2 · · Score: 1

      Say, by claiming to be an underage girl who wants to send pictures of herself to random people?

      NAH, nobody I know on AOL would EVER fall for that one.

  41. Now if we started calling them... by jfancher · · Score: 0, Troll

    Another example of why viri/worms/etc should include the OS they apply to i.e. The Windows/AIM vulnerability or the Microsoft/AIM vulnerability or the Microsoft Code Red virus. You get the idea. Eventually even MSCE would get the idea that the majority of the security problems are associated with a particular operating system.

    1. Re:Now if we started calling them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, learn the proper English plural of the word 'virus.'

      There's no need to be making up words in hopes of sounding smarter. You only end up looking silly.

  42. w00w00? by fobbman · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The non-profit security team w00w00.org..."

    Oh, so the 1337 are going the non-profit route? Nice to see that they are going somewhat legit here, but are we going to see mass-defacement support drives once a month looking for donations, a la PBS? Are they going to only release their best exploits during these fund drives? And how much do I have to donate to get reach the benefactor level where I get the "Bill Gates unrestricted Amex card" number as a gift of thanks?

    More importantly, did Microsoft "give generously" during the "Here's how to hack AIM" episode of "Sesame Street"?

    "Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the letters M, S, N, and the number 1."

    1. Re:w00w00? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've been around for a while & have posted quite a few things to bugtraq. The silly name, however, I don't know about.

  43. This could be a learning experience... by cscx · · Score: 1
    If AOL can automagically fix holes in their clients by changing something server-side, haven't we learned a new way to fix exploits? I mean, if all implementations of Microsoft IIS servers and Windows XP communicated through Microsoft before reaching their final destination... oh wait....

    Pssst... that's a joke ;-)

  44. In Perspective by nailchipper · · Score: 1

    I dont how often exploits are found in AIM, but I haven't heard of too many.

    Now are we really going to bash AIM and compare it to outlook or IIS because of this? The tone seems to be "uh oh.. AIM is now just like outlook, i better sign off and use a third party client"

    When linux exploits are announced the tone seems to be more forgiving. Unfair?

    --


    what is nailchipper?
  45. strcpy(shocking_news,nefariouscodestring); by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft systems are hackable? I'm shocked!!!

  46. Not to be really dark and evil, but... by Brendan+Byrd · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd love to see an I-Worm do this! It could scan for words like "Confidential", "payroll", "affair", "fired" and send e-mails to random people with copies of the message.

    Marriages would be broken.
    Important MS memos would be leaked.
    VPs with high salaries would be exposed.

    Oh, if I had the balls to write such things...

    1. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by wo1verin3 · · Score: 1

      This recently happened, wasn't it called SirCam?

    2. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by Brendan+Byrd · · Score: 1

      I think it just grabbed random documents from the My Documents directory. Plus, it caused damage, too. Something like that will get fixed too quickly. SirCam wasn't good enough, because I didn't hear enough stories of business secrets being published, or other feats of anarchy *VBEG*.

    3. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by wo1verin3 · · Score: 1

      I managed to get a bunch of internal memo's and alot of personal junk such as resumes. :)

    4. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by linzeal · · Score: 0

      I got some wills from some people's attorney in sun city az. Kept getting the same 15 documents for 3 months before I had his ISP call him and threaten to shut down his account because he was spamming me. Never found out why he had my email address.

    5. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you have a common name and work at a large company, like me, you'll get "internal documents" and stuff sent to you by mistake too

    6. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      Never found out why he had my email address.

      He probably looked at a web page that had your email address included on it at some point in time. Then the virus grabbed your address out of his IE cache.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    7. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by Glytch · · Score: 2

      Lucky bastard. All I got was the schedule of a pastor and drafts of his upcoming sermons.

    8. Re:Not to be really dark and evil, but... by wo1verin3 · · Score: 1

      Could you hook up that schedule? I think after the past few days (new years eve) that I'll have to go or else be damned :(

  47. why not by hawk · · Score: 2
    >Actually, I don't hate Microsoft products


    Why not? Don't you use any?


    [*duck*]


    hawk, who bought the last pair of quality microsoft products: word 5.1 and excel 4

  48. Anything AOL is like The Teletubbies... by Stackis · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Anything AOL is like The Teletubbies...

    Including their IM....it's kiddie time once again...

    I think it's as funny as hell, that they're little IM is vunerable...

    AOL is nothing but a G thang....and that G doesn't stand for GOOD!

    --

    "Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
    1. Re:Anything AOL is like The Teletubbies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The Teletubbies aren't that gay.

      ~~~

    2. Re:Anything AOL is like The Teletubbies... by Stackis · · Score: 1

      They're not?

      I always thought they were ;)

      --

      "Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
  49. Only AIM versions > 4.7.2480 by Evro · · Score: 2, Informative
    As far as I can tell, this only affects 4.7xx and above...
    AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) has a major security vulnerability in the latest stable (4.7.2480) and beta (4.8.2616) Windows versions.
    Most people I know stayed with version 4.3, as it doesn't have the super-annoying "AIM Today" window when you login. Of course, AOL doesn't make this available, so I keep my AIM 4.3 installer in a safe place. If it turns out that 4.3 has this bug, well, I'll be sad.
    --
    rooooar
  50. Open your eyes... by Brendan+Byrd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Kinda reminds me of various SF dystopias where the general populace is kept just smart enough to be useful but not enough to be critical thinkers and therefore dangerous to the status quo.

    It's already like this. Just look at the government we have now: One which is more worried about banning abortion to produce more babies, instead of enforcing better (and cheaper) birth control. One which is more worried about protecting ourselves from ourselves (read: victimless crimes), instead of letting us learn from our mistakes (or letting evolution sort it out). One which is more worried about getting elected the next term and getting in the pockets of lobbists, instead of passing laws that the people really need.

    Just look at our idiotic voters. They are the mediorce masses. They are the ones just smart enough to be useful, but not smart enough to see that they've been screwed. They are the proles [1984], and the future is NOT with them.

    1. Re:Open your eyes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      enforcing better (and cheaper) birth control

      Yeah, brutally killing unborn babies is cheaper but do you really want to live in that kind of world?

    2. Re:Open your eyes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Yeah, brutally killing unborn babies is cheaper but do you really want to live in that kind of world?"

      Yes, we really, really do. Now go away and leave us alone.

    3. Re:Open your eyes... by naasking · · Score: 1

      Capitalism has a shelve life of 250 years. Unforunately, we are way past due for a revolution.

      Revolt to what system?

    4. Re:Open your eyes... by aka-ed · · Score: 1

      Just look at our idiotic voters. They are the mediorce masses ... They are the proles [1984], and the future is NOT with them.

      [sig:]Capitalism has a shelve life of 250 years. Unforunately, we are way past due for a revolution.

      Pardon me, but who, if not the "proles," will foment this revolution? Perhaps you are a member of the CorporoTechnoCratic Party International?

      At least correct your sig so "shelf" is spelled correctly.

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    5. Re:Open your eyes... by Brendan+Byrd · · Score: 2

      Socialism, perhaps? It works for GNU and Sweden, right?

    6. Re:Open your eyes... by naasking · · Score: 1

      I doubt it, but time will tell I suppose.

  51. What of Jabber? by Second_Derivative · · Score: 1

    That's proven quite useful to me. Right now I'm connected to AIM, ICQ and MSN via Gabber. It's an open protocol (massively verbose XML strings are about as open as it gets...), and because the IM system gating is done at the server the protocol is also simple, as are, by extension, the clients.

    Granted the server transports sometimes go down, though I use theoretic.com's server which has been doing a sterling job so far. Now if I could just figure out how to go on IRC from this thing....

  52. Check out this quote... by VValdo · · Score: 5, Interesting
    from USAToday:

    Russ Cooper, who moderates a popular security mailing list and works for security firm TruSecure, said Conover's actions are irresponsible. "I think it's better to provide details of the exploit and then let other people write the actual code," Cooper said. "Unfortunately, these are fundamentally naive people with a very childish view of the world."

    Hmm. Anyone else sense a little hostility from the for-profit security industry...?

    --
    -------------------
    This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Check out this quote... by CounterZer0 · · Score: 1

      Yet Russ Cooper posted this exploit AND links to the code earlier this morning to NTBugTraq. If they are so irresponsible, then why didn't he edit/moderate the content they submitted?

    2. Re:Check out this quote... by bluetea · · Score: 1
      Yet Russ Cooper posted this exploit AND links to the code earlier this morning to NTBugTraq. If they are so irresponsible, then why didn't he edit/moderate the content they submitted?

      According to the quote I saw from Cooper (in the same article, IIRC), he decided not to moderate their content since it was released simultaneously through a number of other channels. The genie was already out of the bottle. Makes some sense from a newsworthiness standpoint, I guess.

  53. Bug in Protocol??? by sterno · · Score: 1

    The lead in to the article says that the problem is a bug in the protocol. From reading the announcement, it sounds like it is really a bug in the implementation of the OSCAR protocol in the AOL released clients. It doesn't sound like it's an inherent flaw in the protocol itself. Also, to talk about the AIM protocol is somewhat non-specific seeing as TOC is technically an AIM protocol as well and it doesn't sound like this has anything to do with that.

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  54. So do the work in a civilised country by Tim+Ward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Eg Europe, where reverse engineering is explicitly legal regardless of any terms and conditions the software vendor may seek to impose.

    1. Re:So do the work in a civilised country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow, stealing someone's work is *civilized* (not civilised)? you must be an gnu pusher.

    2. Re:So do the work in a civilised country by elmegil · · Score: 2, Funny

      So that when you come to the US you can be arrested by the Feds, held for a while, and then released. Good plan if you never want to visit the States....

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    3. Re:So do the work in a civilised country by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Be safe from DMCA, just like Sklyarov and Johansen wer-- oops.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  55. Re:Only AIM versions 4.7.2480 by buysse · · Score: 2

    Tested vulnerable back to 4.3 (earliest one available to test). Vulnerability of versions 4.3 is not known; assume that ALL VERSIONS of AIM are vulnerable. (At least if you believe the fine people on Bugtraq).

    D'oh.

    --
    -30-
  56. Another Workaround by base2op · · Score: 1

    I'm fairly sure the JAVA version of the AIM client is up to date with the newest bells and whistles. So I doubt the AIM Express client is vulnerable. I'd just use that in the mean time.

    For the lazy: AIM Express

    ( Yeah I know, I posted this to the wrong thread origanally. : ( )

  57. Trillian WORKS under Wine! by yerricde · · Score: 2

    I've recently started using trillian (www.trillian.cc [trillian.cc]) for all my IMing needs

    Trillian is a Windows app, but it apparently works under Wine.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Trillian WORKS under Wine! by Jenova · · Score: 1

      Trillian 0.71 does not work under Wine though. A pity. I used to use 0.6x under wine when my licq refused to work properly.

      -Alvin

  58. Re:Only AIM versions 4.7.2480 by ZxCv · · Score: 2

    You can turn that annoying AIM Today window off rather easily; in fact, its always the first thing I do after setting up AIM anywhere.

    --

    Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
  59. Might Try Odigo by Razzious · · Score: 2

    I have stopped using most of the Instant messagers except Odigo now. I like the see others in the website feature and the fact that you have all the others integrated as well is a plus.

    http://www.odigo.com

    Side note I am in NO WAY affiliated with them. I just happen to like their product.

    --
    Razzious Domini
    I could be a GREAT KARMA WHORE if I could just shed the few morals I have left.
  60. Proles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You said it! Our only hope lies not in the proles.

  61. Does this make me a murderer? by Slur · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am about to expose information that could be used to commit a crime. If this information is improperly used then I and all who have passed on this information can and should be summarily prosecuted according to the Laws Against Spreading Evil Information. But I'll take the chance.

    1. Humans are mortal
    2. Poking a big hole in a human can kill it
    3. Humans are the weak spot in bank security
    4. Humans fear having holes poked in them
    5. Guns are effective tools for poking holes in humans
    6. Pointing guns at humans can get them to do what you want
    7. Humans in banks will give you money if you point a gun at them
    8. To kill a human quickly, shoot it in the heart or head
    9. Explosives are also very effective

    My apologies to all for whom this information represents a decrease in personal security. But rest assured, your firewall will continue to function long after your life has drained away.

    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
    1. Re:Does this make me a murderer? by Aceticon · · Score: 2
      But rest assured, your firewall will continue to function long after your life has drained away
      1. Computers are breakable
      2. Poking a big hole in a computer can break it
      3. Guns are affective tools for poking holes in computers
      4. Firewall software doesn't run in broken computers
      5. To stop a firewall quickly shoot the computer just about anywere
      And remeber kids - If you shoot a brand computer don't peek inside or you might be breaking the DCMA
  62. If you did any of the real life examples.. by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

    You would not get in trouble. It's called free speech. If someone's product is shoddy and insecure it it your right to tell everyone about it. There are plenty of books at the library that describe how to pick locks and if you've ever read "The Hacker Crackdown" by Bruce Sterling you know that there are books that describe how to get calling card numbers, namely, "The Hacker Crackdown". You say "These actions wouldn't fly in the real world without legal repercussions." yet you give no examples. Please, give an example. Please at least cite a law which forbids any of the actions you described becuase you talk as if there is such a law for the real world where one for the cyber world is lacking. I would argue that there is a law for neither and that you are talking out of your ass.

    --

    --

    WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    1. Re:If you did any of the real life examples.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law is called the DMCA, and whether you like the law or not, no court shy of the Supreme Court is going to have to guts to stand against it in today's political climate. Your guilty verdict might be overturned on appeal to Washington, but most likely, you would have already served your 5-10 year sentence in federal prison before it got onto the Supreme Court docket, so thank you kindly for being the person to sacrifice themselves so stoically in defense of the Constitution! I just hope you don't have any family that might miss you while you're in Danbury.

  63. More info by hether · · Score: 1
    --

    Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
  64. AIM just rebooted. by joe630 · · Score: 1

    AIM has just kicked everyone off of the service, and I assume they have patched this bug. We shall see when it comes back up.

    Any word from AOL about this?

    1. Re:AIM just rebooted. by Townshend · · Score: 1

      AIM didn't kick everyone off of the service. And the exploit still works. In fact it has now made national headlines.

  65. Server Side Patch doesnt fix.. by Thomas+Charron · · Score: 1

    Now they just have to get you to accept a p2p connection between the AIM clients. 8-( Ok, BETTER then waiting a long arse time, but it doesnt address the issue of having to update to a fixed client..

    --
    -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
  66. AIM offline by elohim · · Score: 1

    It appears the AIM service has been taken offline by AOL.

  67. Re:How to NOT protect yourself by alexz · · Score: 3, Informative

    AIM Filter being the program that, if not a trojan, at least has various remote access abilities.

    See the bugtraq archive for more information.

    Amusing that its use is recommended in the security advisory.

  68. Re:Only AIM versions 4.7.2480 by Legion303 · · Score: 2
    From the person who found the hole:

    1. This vulnerable affects all AIM versions as far back as 4.3 (this is the farthest one back I've checked). I don't know if it affects the inline AIM used with Netscape. If it supports game requests, probably. Otherwise, it won't.

    -Legion

  69. i've an idea! by waschebaer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    a cool server side fix:

    exploit this hole from the main server on all clients, and make them automatically update to the latest version! No users have to download patches this way.

  70. Trillian not affected by OnyxRaven · · Score: 2

    Noticed quite a few mesages exclaiming about trillian already. I love it. It just needs more skins (or I need to learn the differences between the old and new format).

    I will venture, rather safely, to say that Trillian is not affected by this exploit. The exploit is in the 'game request' feature in the AIM client for windows, a feature that has not yet been included in Trillian in the first place, and a feature that would obviously use different, hopefully better-bounds-checked code if it were there (since trillian uses its own libraries to do everything, no reliance on AIM).

    --
    --onyx--
  71. Irresponsible! by Ichoran · · Score: 1

    Publishing information about exploits is valuable, and creating code that can demonstrate an exploit is valuable, and releasing it if the company isn't going to fix the problem really fast is valuable, and releasing an exploit that helps people test to make sure they're no longer exploitable is valuable.

    But in this case--due to threat of release or not--AOL claims to be fixing the problem very rapidly, and the exploit code is next to useless in fixing the problem. The only reason I can see, in this case, to release the code is if that is the only way that the people who found it would feel like they got enough attention/recognition to make it worth releasing the code rather than exploiting it themselves.

    Next time, I hope they wait a little longer before releasing the code. Or if not, hopefully it won't get reported here until then. Otherwise it just gives ammunition to the "obscurity" folks who want to show how dangerous information is.

    1. Re:Irresponsible! by GigsVT · · Score: 3, Informative

      They did wait, AOL ignored them.

      We contacted the AOL Instant Messenger group but never received a
      response. Normally we would be inclined to provide a fix, but it is
      illegal to reverse engineer the AIM executable (DMCA and AIM's license
      agreement to thank), so we are unable to provide a patch which will
      modify it. Instead, we recommend Robbie Saunder's AIM Filter
      (http://www.ssnbc.com/wiz/) to protect yourselves.

      Please get the full story before you post shit.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Irresponsible! by Jay+L · · Score: 1

      They did wait; AOL ignored them.

      Not exactly. According to the Washington Post, "the group found the problem several weeks ago, but didn't contact AOL until after Christmas. The group didn't get any response from AOL through an e-mail during the holiday week...w00w00 set a New Year's deadline for sentimental reasons."

      Yeah, I'd say that's irresponsible.

  72. Nice hack! Works too by georgevulov · · Score: 1

    This is nice, I just compiled the code and was able to run commands on friends' comps. He provided source code and everything, it's just a matter of downloading and compiling. (need make & gcc & libfaim). To actually run commands, you have to modify the source, the default setup just crahes the person's aim. ENJOY!

    --
    TerraIM - my pet AIM client project.
  73. Watch out for incoming Script Kiddie onslaught by Lally+Singh · · Score: 2
    --
    Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
  74. How is this a violation of the DMCA? by Tom7 · · Score: 2

    The reverse-engineering clause only applies to technology designed to limit access to a copyrighted work. The DMCA is for protecting digital content. AIM has nothing to do with that.

    It's a bad law, for sure, but making false claims about what it covers does NOT help our cause.

    1. Re:How is this a violation of the DMCA? by jeeryg_flashaccess · · Score: 1

      What the author of the advisory was saying was that they reverse engineered AIM to make a patch which fixed the whole. But because of the DMCA they can not distribute it.

      Greg

      --
      Life is like pants... fit in or you don't fit in.
    2. Re:How is this a violation of the DMCA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What the author of the advisory was saying was that they reverse engineered AIM to make a patch which fixed the whole. But because of the DMCA they can not distribute it.

      Did you even bother to read what you were replying to? I quote: "The reverse-engineering clause only applies to technology designed to limit access to a copyrighted work. The DMCA is for protecting digital content. AIM has nothing to do with that."

      Yes, they're prevented from distributing a patch to take away all of AIM's capabilities to limit access to a copyrighted work. Exactly what those capabilities are, I'm not sure. Exactly how the patch would remove whatever these capabilities might be, I'm not sure. But it's Slashdot, so it must be true!

  75. Aim Filter by Pludodog · · Score: 1

    Strangely, Aim filter seems to take advantage of a few exploits in AIM as well... Kinda strange recommending this.

    Oh well, I guess our free reign is over.

  76. "So easy to prevent" -- not in C by Tom7 · · Score: 2

    It's true that overflows are easy to prevent, by using a modern language like Java or O'Caml that has automatic bounds-checking on arrays. (To a lesser extent the C++ STL can help you with this, but you don't get any guarantees since the language is not safe.)

    But I don't agree that it is easy to prevent when you're writing your software in C or C-like C++. In fact, I think C and the typical memory model practically encourages you to write exploitable software. Sure, it's easy to look at a stupid little program and say, yes, that has a buffer overflow problem. But large programs like IIS or even AOL AIM are an awful lot harder to analyze. (Take a look at the IIS overflow again if you think it's easy. This was due to the interaction between two totally different modules, both of which did bounds checking, but assumed that the buffer was large enough to hold twice the amount of data after unencoding. Indeed it was, but not if you unencode twice!)

    If it is so easy to prevent, why do we continue to see loads of these kinds of bugs? You might argue that AOL programmers are stupid, and IIS programmers, and wu_ftpd, BIND, perl, quake 3 arena, sshd, (etc. etc.), but I think you'd be left with almost no programmers if you listed all the packages that have had buffer overflows in them. It is C's fault.

    Personally, I think it's ridiculous that people still write software that's not at all performance-critical in C and C++. Technology exists (see O'Caml at http://caml.inria.fr/) for making really fast programs that are guaranteed not to have this kind of security hole in them. All that's really needed is toolkits for interfacing with system libraries... (for non-interactive stuff like network daemons there's absolutely no excuse to be using C).

  77. Trillian by davmct · · Score: 1

    Why don't you try Trillian if you're looking for cross-IM compatibility. Support for AIM, Yahoo, MSN, ICQ, and IRC. very cool
    find it at
    http://www.trillian.cc

  78. Fire for Mac OS X is great by gsfprez · · Score: 2

    if you've got Mac OS X - you should get fire
    http://www.epicware.com/fire.html

    works great, and handles AIM, ICQ, Jabber, irc, MSN, and Yahoo.

    from the "About Fire" dialogue

    Engineering
    Eric Peyton

    Interface Design
    Borrowed from America Online with flourishes courtesy Eric Peyton. Some ICQ ideas taken from various ICQ clones ...

    Icons
    Rick Roe, Blake Harris

    Fire Enhancements
    The following people have made enhancements to Fire
    Jason Fosback (jfosback@ubermind.com)
    Brian Fitzpatrick (fitz@red-bean.com)
    (way too many to list :-( and I forget)

    Underlying Engine (libfaim)
    Copyright 1998-1999 Adam Fritzler (afritz@iname.com)

    Underlying Engine (icqlib)
    http://kicq.sourceforge.net/kicq.shtml

    Underlying Engine (libyahoo)
    http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/gtkyahoo

    Underlying Engine (msn library)
    http://www.everybuddy.com

    Underlying Engine (firetalk/irc)
    http://www.penguinhosting.net/~ian/firetalk/

    HTML (AIML) Rendering/Reading Engine
    Copyright 1999 Stephen Peters (portnoy@portnoy.org)

    Fire.app Written in Objective-C against the Cocoa API's using the underlying libfaim Unix/Linux library written in C, the icqlib source code written in C, and the gtkyahoo source code written in C and C++. I am using the firetalk library in C for irc communication and the msn library was borrowed from everybuddy.

    Fire.app is released under the FSF GPL, as are libfaim, micq, and gtkyahoo. If you did not receive source with this version please contact Eric Peyton (epeyton@epicware.com) for the source, or visit http://www.epicware.com/fire.html.

    --
    guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
  79. AIM exploit fixed by Townshend · · Score: 1

    The exploit no longer works. However, since the problem does exist in the client, I'm sure it's possible to do this in some other fashion.

  80. The w00w00 folks... by newbob · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    ...look like a freak show!

    Check out this guy , for instance. Doesn't he look dreadful?!

    I'm sure he'll regret this look someday.

    1. Re:The w00w00 folks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm so glad we here on Slashdot are so open-minded and non-discriminatory that we run around calling people freak shows. Someone please mod this parent comment -1 flamebait or troll ...

    2. Re:The w00w00 folks... by newbob · · Score: 1
      There's no discrimination here. This person made a lifestyle choice to look and act a certain way.

      I'm not making fun of his race, religion, national origin, affectional preference, or gender identity. Just the way he chooses to wear his hair!

    3. Re:The w00w00 folks... by QuadGoatBoy · · Score: 1

      Here is his girlfriend's pic. Nice couple ;).

  81. MIRANDA by Luminair · · Score: 1

    Come come people, out of any crowd online, I'd expect the slashdot folks to be on the up and up about Miranda and Licq.

    If you use Linux, use Licq or Miranda and WINE. If you use Windows, use Miranda.

    Simple as that!

    oops, miranda is at miranda-icq.sf.net

  82. Other AIM clients by 90XDoubleSide · · Score: 2

    It should be noted that the bug does not, "enable remote users to execute code on any machine logged into the AOL IM service," but is specific to Windows versions 4.3 and newer. They have confirmed that it does not affect Netscape's built in AIM, and assumably alternative OSes and alternative clients are safe. So let me include another shameless endorsement of Fire ;)

    --
    "Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
  83. The register by Stone+Rhino · · Score: 1

    Now has a story on this.

    --


    Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.
  84. Don't call it a security flaw by btempleton · · Score: 2

    Instead of calling these things "flaws" or "holes" or "exploits" I recommend a different term.

    Call them a "window."

    As in, "A window was discovered today into AOL instant messanger."

    --
    Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  85. Wow. these w00w00 guys are TRUE HAX0RZ! by pipeb0mb · · Score: 1

    View source on http://www.w00w00.org:

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
    <!-- saved from url=(0022)http://www.w00w00.org/ -->
    <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>w00w00 Security Development (WSD)</TITLE>
    <META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type>
    <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>

  86. Random thoughts by het3 · · Score: 1

    A lot of hash is made by folks about security, and security holes are cited as reasons to call programmers "dumbasses" and "idiots". Most of this obviously heads Microsoft's direction.

    But it's clear to me that audience size has more to do with security exploits than programmer skill. Counterstrike has *far* more cheaters, and far more dedicated crackers, than any other online game. It also has 10x as many people as any other online game. Valve programmers aren't stupid. I'm sure the AIM programmers aren't stupid, either, and neither are the MSN or Outlook folks. It seems to me that the more people you throw at a problem, the more holes you'll find: that the holes are inevitable for any non-trivial program.

    You get the "more people to throw at the problem" in security cases by having the "bigger audience to screw with". I was wondering when I'd start seeing non-MS general apps attract enough crackers, and AIM with 100 million folks appears to be sufficiently large.

    How much blame should attach to programmers? I notice Red Hat has about 4 security updates a month (for their most current version), looking at their own list on their website. Mandrake has about double that. They're smart guys, too. But you don't hear about it nearly as much, because obviously any exploit is a much smaller ripple, compared to the millions more Windows boxes out there.

    I've downloaded 17 XP updates since it came out, most of them security updates. I'm not seeing a train wreck of incompetance with Windows: if a flaw is discovered, it's bigger news just by being more widely distributed. But the flaws seem to get fixed, on the whole. At least, they seem to get fixed at a reasonable rate, comparable to the rate at which Linux companies issue fixes. One could argue that, given the mumblemillion more Windows boxes there are, that MS should fix the bugs mumblemillion times faster to compensate for the severity difference they pose the world, but that's a pretty facile argument, and easy to dismiss.

    I guess I'm thinking that it's gotta be pretty damned hard to write software to allow two computers to talk and take every single eventuality into account before shipping it. It's got to get geometrically more complicated the more apps and such talk in a variety of ways. I'm wondering how "bombproof" some things are by virtue of just not having enough folks that care enough to try.

  87. encryption by Cardhore · · Score: 2

    Also worth mentioning is that Trillian has automatic 128bit encryption between Trillian clients (over AIM & ICQ only).

    1. Re:encryption by mblumber · · Score: 1

      I've been trying to get that working for a while; I can't find where in the program you turn on said encryption. Do you know?

      --
      Anyone who posts about bad moderation are themselves off-topic and should be moderated accordingly.
    2. Re:encryption by Cardhore · · Score: 2

      Yes, go into the preferences, and it's under AIM/Misc. they call it secureIM capabilities.

  88. Ebarrassment, Blood, and Guilt by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Informative


    Can someone please explain to me the moral or ethical mandate that supports/justifies this sort of vigilante thinking?


    Information security tends to take a far back seat within the corporate world. Doesn't matter if it is management, administration, or development - infosec is a secondary thought if its even considered.


    Part of this is the specialized knowledge required to handle infosec issues (not that it couldn't be widely aquired). It takes a concious effort to implement a secure system. This is often considered additional effort. And additional cost.


    Another part of the puzzle is a general disbelief anyone could discover a vulnerability and would bother to take advantage of it. This discounts the number of technically minded individuals your infrastructure is exposed to on the net (compounded by automating attacks). It also ignores that even trivial applications can cause considerable damage (I have some friends working infosec for large corporations who went in to high gear with this announcement - AIM exists in many environments).


    Finally, infosec is rarely a consumer requirement. Functionality is what sells widgets. Unless the widget is touted as being secure (even IF its supposed to be secure), security won't sell as many widgets if the widgets don't blink and beep nicely. Thus infosec isues are not pushed during initial development.



    All of these actions could have theoretically been done in the name of improving security but in the short-term all they do is recklessly endanger it.


    So now it gets bloody. Damage gets done. Consumers begin to see how these strange little issues cause them pain. They begin to demand better, more secure products. Product goals begin to include infosec. Better products get produced.


    And those who would take advantage of vulnerabilities... quietly and to personal gain (or even loudly and publically) have fewer and fewer targets.



    There is at least one long-term upside to w00w00's actions, though. Their actions will hasten the approval of legislation which makes online reckless endangerment as criminal on the Internet as it is in your neighborhood.


    And its possible more attention will be paid to those who build faulty, and ultimately dangerous, data infrastructures. Maybe even legal liability.
  89. What's worse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally, I think the facty the bug has been released is a good thing, though I don't think the source for the actual expolit should have been put out.
    I can see both sides of the arguments.

    www.aim.com
    Tell me how much info you can fnd about the problem on AOL's on site. Nada, zip, zero, zilch.
    Doesn't exactly instill me with confidence they would have fixed the problem on their own, without a nudge from w00w00

  90. AIM Filter = Trojan ?! (MOD PARENT UP!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AIM Filter might be the backdoor the back door they're warning about... They recommend that you run it to keep yourself safe from this latest vulnerability, but it might in fact be a trojan that steals your passwords anyway!

    Check out the link in the parent post.

    http://www.securityfocus.com/cgi-bin/archive.pl? id =1&start=2001-12-24&end=2001-12-30&mid=219171&thre ads=1

  91. Re:If only I could mod this by FamedLamer · · Score: 0

    it would be +1000000000000000 Funniest thing I read all year

  92. how do i turn it off? by redpop350 · · Score: 1

    A friend of mine and I have been trying for the last hour or so to figure out how to turn off the internal client in AOL 7.0. Haven't figured it out. I d/l'd Trillian, and can't use it. I can't log out of the server without disconnecting from AOL. All we can do is disable access [to my box] to others. I hate not being able to control my own box. The funny thing is, this is the first problem I have ever had with AOL in any form. But I don't like the way they have handled this.

    1. Re:how do i turn it off? by nnd · · Score: 1

      it doesnt affect the internal client in aol's software.

  93. Give the vendor a warning, then release publicly by orius_khan · · Score: 1

    Can someone please explain to me the moral or ethical mandate that supports/justifies this sort of vigilante thinking? Consider the following off-line scenarios, which to me seem equivalent (someone correct my thinking):

    ...

    You can still have the best of both worlds... When people discover vulnerabilities like this, they should:
    - Announce publicly that they discovered a vulnerability with a specific program (or module or whatever). Do NOT give enough details to allow others to relatively easily find it for themselves. Along with this notification, post the date on which the full disclosure of the details will happen.
    - Alert the vendor who made the software, and give them all of the technical details with which to identify and fix the problem. (As well as the public posting date.) Allow the vendor a reasonably long enough time to fix their software and strongly promote the downloading of patches by their customers. This is a grey area, because a "reasonable" amount of time could easily vary depending on the size of the company, the number of users of the software, how many different versions of the software are in use, how severe of a bug it is, etc. I don't know what a good default guideline would be, but I can't imagine it being less than a week.
    - On the disclosure date promised in the original announcement, disclose all of the details of your findings.

    Each of these steps are vital and cannot be skipped over, nor are they likely to work out of sequence. People/groups who research things like this thrive on the fame and notoriety of being the ones who found the vulnerability. They are not likely to be willing to give the vendor notice without publicly announcing that they've found something, because the vendor might fix the bug without giving credit to the finders. While this would be fine for the rest of us, it would not please the finders, so they would not be willing to stick to this model, which would defeat the whole purpose.

    It is also imperative that the details ARE disclosed to the public at some point. Without the threat of the details being publicly known and mass embarrassment for the vendor (or possible legal action, depending on the nature of the bug and the degree of negligence), there will be very little incentive for the vendor to fix the holes and encourage downloads of the patches. The solution is NOT to disallow scrutiny of software by third parties. If large vendors come to rely on this type of legal protection rather than technical integrity, then the only people who will end up discovering such vulnerabilities are those who are knowingly attempting to break the law. When they gain their "illegal" knowledge, they are likely to use it anonymously for illegal purposes, since any legal use of it would trace it back to "How did they find this out in the first place?", and thus their illegal "hacking".

    It is imperative that the "good" hackers be allowed to claim credit for their discoveries and to have a legal way to disclose them to the vendors, and to put pressure on them to be fixed. This is how progress is made. By outlawing 'beneficial hacking', you will force all of these active minds into the underground, eliminating thousands of basically free quality-control research hours. The desire to analyze, to explore, to hack, will always be there. If you outlaw it, you are guaranteeing that the results of these desires will always be illegal, and probably negative (counter-productive to society).

    --
    Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all the unhappy people.
  94. Perfect Reason to use Open Source by DarkProphet · · Score: 1

    ...at least in this kind of development situation. I would think that if you open sourced your protocol and a sample client, you'd have the major bugs worked out fairly early in development. That tends to cut down on the number of users affected by any bugs that may crop up. You can't really fault the programmers for letting this security hole happen. Everyone makes boneheaded mistakes, including the project manager for not implementing a better development method.

    Over the last year or so, I've been coding a slash-like weblog. I started the project because the new version of slash wasn't stable yet, and because I found slash a huge pain to install... a nightmare! Anyhow, so I've been working on this for awhile now, and I'm just now getting around to implementing real database use (as opposed to text files for everything). While the code seems to have taken everything I've thrown at it, I wouldn't just throw the scripts up for download and send the DB abstraction module off to CPAN, declaring it stable.

    I do realize that at some point, when I feel fairly comfortable with what I've got, I'll release it as a unstable development release, and let others help pound out any bugs. I'd do that BEFORE I'd market my code, sell it to millions, and squeeze slash out of existance. Heh, just kidding, but you get the idea. When you have a piece of software that can potentially be installed in millions of machines, you kinda have a moral obligation to make sure nothing goes wrong. But morality and big-business is another topic altogether.

    --
    What could possibly hurt the security of the American people more than giving our own government the ability to hide its
  95. Insightful! (Mod up) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least I think so...

  96. MOD UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very funny indeed.

  97. It seems such an easy thing.... by Codifex+Maximus · · Score: 2

    to use strncpy instead of strcpy...

    Anyway, I like AIM, it's easy for a brain dead code jockey to use. I've got enough rattling around in my head without having to be 31137 at instant messenger applications.

    --
    Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
  98. Consider the coverage on MSNBC by disenfranchised · · Score: 1

    Far be it from me to imply that ownership affects the editorial slant of the media, but consider the first paragraph of MSNBC's coverage of the AOL exploit:

    A security hole in AOL Time Warner's Instant Messenger program used by millions of people worldwide can let a hacker take full control of a victim's computer, according to security researchers and the company. An AOL spokesman said the problem will be fixed soon, and users won't have to download anything.

    with the lead paragraph of their coverage (read: spin) on the recent XP fiasco:

    Microsoft's new Windows XP has a host of new features designed to make a world of disparate digital devices communicate with each other. Unfortunately, some of those features make it easier for hackers to communicate with them too, the company admitted Thursday. A free fix for the flaws has been issued, and the company is urging customers to download the patch.

    Of course, with the tough economic times and all, it's good to see the marketing department pitching in and writing the story leads.

    --
    Wait... you mean you still haven't joined the ACLU?
  99. How is a first post of actual content redundant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please see the subject line. I am quite curious about this. Mods are strange critters sometimes

  100. Re: Reverse Engineering != stealing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    stealing someone's work is *civilized*

    It may be new to you, but looking under the hood of a car and understanding how it works and learning more about how it works by looking is not stealing.

    At least I have not had my car stolen when I left it at the garage and the car mechanic definitely looked under the hood and definitely reverse engineered the problems I was experiencing. And as far as I know, no more identical copy of my car exist due to that reverse engineering.

    Could it be you cannot distinguish between reverse engineering, cracking and bootlegging? Or are you an MS pusher? :-)

    Just for your info: In civilized countries you own what you buy, regardless what MS claims. Oh and yes, reverse engineering, even of software, is protected by the law up to the extend you need to make your (legally obtained) software interoperable.

  101. its never going to end unless ... by jopet · · Score: 1

    Lets face it: there will always be problems like this, no matter what OS or program is involved. The question is: how can we make living with those problems easier, how can we make sure that even though such problems exist, they wont cause much damage? I think that a radical change of how people "see" what their computers are doing will have to be the key. You cannot expect everybody to become a computer expert. But as much as better GUIs have helped to make it easier for the masses to understand what they are doing when writing text or painting pictures, it will be necessary to give the users a "metaphor" for net connections, program privileges and the like. Until now, these things are consered to be close to the OS and users have been protected from these things by making them "transparent". This is a completely wrong way. Users have be to aware about the fact that programs accept or initiate connections to the outside world, transfer data, execute code that does strange things and so on. Somebody has to find a way how to integrate these things into a user interaction metaphor that is easy to understand and lets the user control what he wants or not, instead of hiding it away from him. I dont say that this would be the answer to all problems, but I think this should be the way to go. Knowing nothing is bad. Expecting users to be able to define iptables rules is bad too.

  102. TLVs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Weren't TLVs intended to prevent buffer-overflow style attacks? For those of you not familiar, TLV stands for "type, length, value" - it's a rather explicit way of storing data.

    I'd assume that they'd use the same TLV parsing code throughout the client product, in which case there's probably more code areas that are busted.

  103. Re:Irresponsible! ... not! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The disclosure or nondisclosure-discussion has all been done over and over in bugtraq.

    over 100 million users of AIM and you say, AOL won't be there during a holiday? What if someone started exploiting that (or a different hole) over the holidays?
    Furrfu!

    See also the Full Disclosure Policy (RFPolicy) v2.0 which is followed by many bugtraq users. Note that 5 work days would mean that the report would have been made around 2001-12-20, at least in my locale.

    A windowsy (humourous) look at the issue of disclosure can be seen here.

  104. Trillian by Unknown+Bovine+Group · · Score: 1
    If it's beta, it's a pretty slick and stable beta. 0.71 is very nice. I especially like the fact that you can encrypt messages over the AIM or ICQ network seamlessly (to other Trillian users). It's even a fairly capable IRC client.

    It's free (beer) donation-ware. Who knows, I may just throw some money their way....

    --
    m00.
  105. information is GOOD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Posting security-related information makes us all better-informed. It makes those writing both open and closed software to be better aware of the real problem posed by making a communications protocol secure.

    It is AOL's responsibility to make their program secure. Whether it's "lighting a fire under their butt" posting the information is irrelevant; the basic freedom to share information overrides other concerns, and AOL needs to deal with such things in a timely manner. They especially should be thankful to w00w00 for showing them a quick way to improve their services.

    I personally am thankful to Slashdot for posting this information. It gave me yet another reason to chuck the Winblows client, fire up Cygwin, and use gaim.

  106. Re:Converses and other logic games by fizbin · · Score: 2

    You take the statement from the article "This does not affect the non-Windows versions, because the non-Windows versions currently do not yet support the feature that this vulnerability occurs in" and conclude "If other versions did support this feature, they would be subject to this vulnerability".

    Let me spell it out in straightforward logic symbols:
    let "a" mean "vulnerability affects non-Windows versions"
    let "b" mean "non-windows versions implement this game feature"
    You take "not a because not b" (That is, "not b imples not a") and conclude "b implies (would imply) a". You have confused the converse with the contrapositive (the contrapositive would be "version xyz is vulnerable to this, therefore I know that version xyz implements the gaming feature").

    Now, on to the question as to whether or not this vulnerability is in the protocol itself; this gets into a silly semantic debate that could go on and on with people yelling about definitions. As the AIM protocol has no canonical published spec. to define what it is, we can only assume that the AIM protocol is whatever the official AIM clients do when operating correctly. (For example, we shouldn't expect that the behavior of the AOL client while it is running under a debugger that randomly flips a few bits in memory every few seconds is an example of the AIM protocol)

    So - is a buffer overflow the correct behavior? As much as I am inclined to think ill of the AOL/TW behemoth, I doubt that they intended their users' machines to be wide open to script kiddies everywhere.

  107. Authoirization is required before users add me... by Pakaran2 · · Score: 1

    That last feature is client-side - a user using licq or any other program, just about, can add you without you being prompted or even knowing. For that matter, I'm sure a program could be written to send a local ICQ client forged replies stating that the authorization had been given.

    Don't belive me? Download one of the third-party clients and try it for five minutes.

  108. Cute by Col.+Panic · · Score: 1
    From the w00w00 announcement: We recommend Robbie Saunder's AIM Filter

    From the bugtraq archive: It looks like this may perhaps be sending a username and password to the screen name sobbieraunders? I don't know.

  109. This just in... by QuadGoatBoy · · Score: 1

    Due to Anonymous Coward's demands, "w00-frickin-w00" has changed its name to "l33tw00" for cosmetic reasons ;).

  110. No! by Tom7 · · Score: 2

    That doesn't make any sense, either. The DMCA does not prevent you from reverse-engineering software and making or distributing patches, UNLESS that software controls access to a copyrighted work, which AIM does NOT.

    People really need to get their facts straight about the law or we are going to be totally incoherent when we try to challenge it (or convince our friends and family that it is bad).

  111. More essence of woo... by QuadGoatBoy · · Score: 1
    1. Re:More essence of woo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remmie is hot. Is she available?

  112. It's been fixed... by Moderator · · Score: 0

    The bug has been fixed server side by AOL. Anyone who trys to exploit it now gets an 'Error Code 14' or something like that and a nice little message from AOL.

    Ah well, it was fun last night...

    --
    The World is Yours.
  113. Re:File transfers with Trillian by Krilomir · · Score: 1

    One of the coolest features is the file transfer-part. Users from different networks can send and receive files from each other. This is the only program that will let you send a file to an ICQ user from MSN for instance. Nice.

  114. Re:Irresponsible! ... not! by Jay+L · · Score: 1

    over 100 million users of AIM and you say, AOL won't be there during a holiday?

    No; obviously SOMEONE is going to be there; there's a well-staffed 24x7 NOC. But we don't know what his reporting method was, other than that it was via e-mail. He presumably just e-mailed someone at AOL whose name he knew; that person could certainly be on vacation over the holidays.

    Note that 5 work days would mean that the report would have been made around 2001-12-20.

    And yet that isn't the case, according to the article - he notified "after Christmas" (even though he'd known for a few weeks) and announced on New Years. At best, that's three working days, even if you don't allow extra leniency for the holidays. So he didn't follow the guideline. It says Conover stated he wanted to release the exploit on 1/1 anyway because it was the anniversary of w00w00's previous announcement! Yes, I think that's irresponsible.

    Here's a copy of the AP article.