Slashdot Mirror
Laptop Methanol Fuel Cells Promised This Week
securitas writes: "Wired tells us that Germany's Smart Fuel Cell is about to ship the first methanol based fuel cells for laptops and other electronic devices. The company says a 120 milliliter fuel cell can power a 15W notebook for 10 hours, and you can refill it without shutting down."
It's a Pit-stop
If only NT could stay up that long.
This is what we want - carry a SIGG flask around to top up your laptop. Add a charger outlet to let you charge your MP3 player, digicam, etc... while on the move and you have the ultimate roaming system.
I wonder if they'll allow them on planes. Not that a few milliliters of methanol seem dangerous compared to the dozens of tons of kerozene you sit on... But it'd sure be nice to be able to play Quake on those long-haul flights!
/max
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
Doesh it *hic* mesh up your *hic* documentsh like *hic* I do when I'm dhrinking methanol *hic* ?
jer
We may be human, but we're still animals
- Steve Vai
<sigh>
I guess any karma generating comments will have to come later, after I get to work!
i'm wondering if this will be a new era of "tech" service stations, they fill your car and your laptop
Is 15W standard? The power supply for my laptop is 60W, is most of that just so it can recharge the battery faster? Seems like a 60W power supply is a waste for a 15W unit.
Will they work on ethanol? -- Will a peaty single malt gum up the works?
I have discovered a wonderful
How many classes can we tolerate ?
A/Gas
Nitro
Top alcohol
Top Fueller
That's just the start. Check out what the NHRA has done to confuse the regulation of motor sport and then think " do we really need methanol powered laptops?"
Why didn't anyone think of this before ?
The infrastructure for methanol will have to be vastly improved before a methanol fuel cell battery will ever be successful in laptops. I work as an integrator, and I take my laptop on-site for a lot of the jobs that I do. Most days on-site I work for 10 hours or longer on a system, carrying my laptop from place to place. The batteries drain, but my two batteries usually have the life to last through the day. When I get back to the hotel at night, I can plug into any outlet to fuel up the batteries.
With the methanol fuel cell, I would need to carry extra charges with me. On a week long trip out of state, that can be a lot of charges. With the current security measures in place at most airports, I doubt that I would be able to take them on the aircraft. Now I need to rely on the local shops to carry the fuel cell cartridges, which may or may not happen, depending upon my location.
Also, if I'm staying in a hotel, charging my batteries is free. If I use the fuel cell, I could get charged $3 per day or more for using my laptop. That's not much if I can write it off as a business expense, but if it is for my two week vacation to Alaska, it can get fairly expensive.
I prefer the convenience of using chemical batteries. I can charge from anywhere, and in a lot of cases, for free.
"There is no way hydrogen is ever going to be allowed aboard an airplane," Stefener said.
I think this is an overly dismissive statement. Methanol itself is really just a hydrogen storage method. You throw in some carbon to stabilise the hydrogen and as a result, you produce carbon dioxide when the fuel is used up.
There's a lot of work going on to find non-chemical storage methods for hydrogen, such as sponges or matrices that would be explosion-proof. There's no reason to believe that this won't eventually succeed in a safer and more efficient fiel cell than methanol based ones. It will just take longer.
Karma police, I've given all I can, it's not enough, I've given all I can, but we're still on the payroll.
erm, Methanol. Not Methane.
Hmm, the big drawback that I can see is the cost (article quotes $3-5) and equally importantly convenience of refilling the fuel cell.
Good luck to them though.
Really, the first time I read the headline I thought it said _menthol_...
Take life easy: one bit at a time.
I have had my sigg bottle for about 3 years. I have dropped it, bashed it about, fallen on it (while climbing), and generally given it far more abuse than it deserves.
Result: It has a couple of dents and a scratch or two in the paintwork.
Perfectly engineered and they look good - a design classic!
ObExplosion
My uncle was telling me that you can refill those trangia methanol stoves while they are lit, but only when the temperature hits -silly degrees C.
He saw someone "demonstrating" this at a camp site in wales, in the summer. Meths vapour in the bottle caught with a loud bang, and the bottle ended up about a hundred yards away. Undamaged.
Where does this water go? Does it evaporate or am I going to have to take my laptop for a pee?
--
billwashere
The other problem is that planes are closed environments. Just as you can't smoke on a plane, it seems possible that any emmisions given off by fuel cells other then water vapor might also cause them to be banned. It may be that the battery won't be abandoned just yet.
A virus which pops up a message saying "this laptop will self destruct in ten seconds..."
"...With just a brisk pump of your foot, you will never worry about a dead battery again. With just a few pumps of the "STEPCHARGER" you can instantly begin to charge your laptop, cellphone, video camera and much more"
Homepage
Image 1
Image 2
Having found a nice collection of pubs with open wireless APs within reach, could we power these things with OTC booze? I'd never have to leave.
http://www.SachaWheeler.com
A possible soloution would be hybrid laptops (similar to hybrid cars) carrying both types of power supply. The batteries could be used first and then as they run out the laptop could switch to the fuel cell.
On low usage days you'd get away with only using batteries and it only takes a free charge to be back up to full lifespan, but if you needed the extra time you do have the option.
Like Hydrogen fuel cells. Ya know, the ones that take hydrogen in one end (add a bit of oxygen for that lovely catalyst effect) and voila! you get say 1v@1a out the other end.. Not bad..
I'm curious as to how this methanol system works.. One thing that definately puts me off is the smell of meths.. Your laptop will start to smell like an old steam engine.. You know, those little kit ones you had as a kid.. choo-choo.. And it's oily.. do you think laptop manufacturers will modify their warranties to say "In the event of meths spillage, we will replace %%%%".. - unlikely.
It's a nice idea, i'm all for the green solutions, but 'polluting' the clean, crisp environment of todays electronics with something like methanol is just a no-no..
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
You don't suppose that's why E.B. wears those sun glasses? He's always reminded me a bit of Ray Charles.
One of the main thrusts behind developing fuel cells is how clean they are. The only exhaust from the process is water. This is great! However, if the methanol charges for the fuel cells are not rechargeable themselves, we will be adding a MORE exhaust to the environment, in the form of the disposed charger. Depending on how the charger is constructed, this can lead to toxic heavy metals breaking down in the earth.
When charging a standard chemical battery, we rely on the cleanliness of the source powering the outlet. Perhaps this technology might be better applied on a larger scale, such as powering an office building, or a small town.
10 hours of 15 watts is 150 watt-hours, cca 540 kJ.
120ml of methanol burned means about 500kcal of energy - about 2 MJ max retrievable by burning.
This does indeed look nice.
Yesterday was the time to do it right. Are we having a REVOLUTION yet?
Right now the cost of these things is too big, but if they manage to really break into the battery market, it will probably go dow with mass production. Then maybe, as stated in this article also from wired, we can start seein real electric cars...
No gas, just methanol, 33 cents a gallon...
coffee | nose > keyboard ©
If so, I can eat airplane peanuts on my Melbourne to London flight and power my laptop with a strategically placed tube from my MethPort to my... well, if you are here, you've got an imagination...
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
I recall an earlier Slashdot article discussing the Coleman portable fuel cell generator. This would seem like a better solution for the laptop user, as you still have the option to charge from a standard wall outlet, but if you are in the field you could carry a resevoir of methanol and the Coleman for recharging in the wild.
As others have mentioned, the availability of the fuel for these fuel cells is what is going to kill or break it. I wouldn't much mind filling up my laptop while I pump my gas, as long as it only costs me 33 cents extra. You just know if this technology takes off the methanol industry will recognize the demand and increase their bulk prices to be more expensive in smaller quantities. That's how it was with gas and oil when the car became mainstream.
It's going to be a tough haul convincing consumers, especially because most don't see that they *are* acutally paying something when they plug in their laptop or cellphone to charge. You also can't beat the distribution of electrical outlets. There may be a fuel cell depot at every gas station and news stand, but I doubt there will be one right beside your bed.
Personally, I'm still holding off on my hydrogen from air bit, or burning oxygen for fuel. We have plenty of "fuel" in the air, why not use it? And what about energy from plain old H2O we've been hearing about? Burn both the Hydrogen and Oxygen and you have no waste.
Ultimatly, we will have to see. For now I would be for a hybrid battery/fuel cell slot system where you can get the instant fill-up when you need it, but still not be left in the dark when the minimart in All Pains, Michigan doesn't cary your fuel cell brand.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
I'm no chemist but that sounds explosive and as such unlikely to be alowed in planes. I can just imagine faulty cells blowing laptops to bits. I can see the fuel cells having a very prominent disclaimer.
I know that batteries like Lithium cells are epxlosive if their contents come into contact with water but as these fuel cells are refilable they must be far less safe.
The Stepcharger product page says it's "Coming October 2001", and the site hasn't been updated in a while. Look closely at the product picture, and you'll see that the cords are tied together with not a twistie, not a ziptie, but good old electric tape. Methinks the product doesn't get quite as much use (or investor interest) as you might think.
What's your damage, Heather?
can power a 15W notebook for 10 hours,
Anyone know what the typical notebook draws? A brief simpleminded look at my Tosh suggests more than 15W... (label on bottom says 19V, 3.5A. Therefore power is 19x3.5?)
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
i am sure i will not be able to use a fuel cell laptop on an airplane..
The idea was nice :)
Combine bodybuilding and websurfing and we'll get a new generation of geeks...
I'm still waiting for my year-2000-model flying car...
I can reliable get 5-6 hours with my extended life battery on my vaio under heavy usage. Under typical usage it would go 10 hours.
If battery usage were really an issue with most laptop users, manufacturers could easily hit the 10 hour mark with more efficient/dimmer backlights and underclocked processors (no one needs 1GHz in a laptop anyway).
The problem is that its a rare laptop user that isn't far from an outlet. Sure, some people want to take a jaunt down to the beach to work on The Great American Novel for 10 hours - but those people are hardly enough to provide a strong market for fuel cells in laptops.
-josh
The problem with methanol is that it's highly poisonous. This means that it can't be cheap to produce (because you need extra safety measures in the factory) and it can't be cheap to distribute (your tamperproof containers must be *really* tamperproof).
Or you can switch to cheap, mass-produced methanol dispensers that occasionally kill their users.
IMHO, it's a good idea to wait for hydrogen fuel cells. First, hydrogen is environmentally safe, and can be stored in such a way that it won't be flammable nor explosive (at least not more so than alchohol is). Second, you can produce it from water, meaning it's probably practical to build a rechargable hydrogen cell. You'd recharge it from the wall socket and a glass of water.
--
I refuse to use
Methanol is burning alcohol, it doesn't explode, it merely burn and not very hot, not exhausting any dangerous gas.
If you don't know why not just shut the fuck up ?
And I've been said all those years that it was that other manual thing that would make me blin... oops, sorry
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
A lot of people don't seem to've noticed that this unit won't exactly be convenient to carry around. Their 25W prototype is 120x160x170mm (5"x6.5"x7") and 2.8kg (5lb)! That's less than a large desktop-equivalent laptop but almost double the weight of some lightweight models. I don't know how many road warriors will really want to triple their carry weight and pay extra money for a few extra hours of runtime. It will probably seem much more convenient and cost-effective to get one of those LiPoly external batteries or something.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
Bombay Saphire...
All of you that hate Gin and never drink a Gin Fizz should try Bombay Saphire just once.
It's the best gin I know, makes the perfect Gin fizz everytime, no matter what the dose or the Tonic.
Please go on, try it and have a toast on me 8)
And now mod me down into Oblivion, I'll just get a wee bit drunker 8)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
But will our laptops still start on cold mornings?
:)
-Evan
Let's see if I remember my basic organic chemistry from twenty years ago. Methane is CH4, methanol CH3OH. CH4 plus H2O plus a little energy gives CH3OH plus H2. So you fart into water and hope that the energy that you use for the conversion doesn't blow up the hydrogen, something of great importance on a plane flight. Not to mention the possibility for a potential aesthetic disaster occuring if your intestinal condition isn't up to snuff...
Hell, just skip the middleman and just light your fart.
If using Linux is about choice, how come people complain when I choose to use Windows?
Methanol is by itself almost completely non-toxic; the danger arises from the metabolic breakdown products.
When you ingest ethanol (aka grain alcohol), alcohol dehydrogenase (an enzyme)catalyzes the oxidation of ethanol to acetaldehyde. If you oxidize acetaldehyde, you get then get acetic acid, which can then be oxidized to carbon dioxide.
Conversly, when you oxidize methanol (aka wood alcohol), you get formaldehyde. If you then oxidize that, you get formic acid. The formaldehyde and the formic acid are both toxic with formic acid being the more toxic of the two. The formaldehyde attacks the sensitive protein in the retina making you blind while the formic acid is what kills you.
Because the rate limiting step in methanol oxidation is availability of alcohol dehydrogenase, the clinical treatment for methanol poisoning is, you guessed it, to give large amounts of ethanol. Because the alcohol dehydrogenase has a higher affinity for ethanol than methanol, giving you ethanol will keep the methanol from being catabolized. The "unprocessed" non-toxic methanol can then be cleared by the kidneys.
Also, it should be noted that the prohibition on distilling has absolutely nothing to do with public safety. It is a taxation issue pure and simple. I suggest you pull out a history text and read about something called the Whiskey Rebellion.
Wouldn't it be more practical to equip passenger seats in planes with outlets? Or where else you can't find one?
Imagine !
It would mean that with a glass of Water, you could power up Chicago for a few weeks...
The only problem right now is the power needed to split H2O
The day the H+H+O->HO produce more than what is needed for H20-> H+H+0, we will have solved the energy problem for good.
Dream Brothers, Dream, and don't throw your hippy jeans right now.
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
It sounds like just like razors and razorblades - sell a cheap razor requiring proprietary razorblades and lock-in your consumers to your brand.
Until companies snap out of this mindset I don't see the technology taking off. You can still make a massive profit by selling them for a buck each or even making refillable ones and your customers will love you for it. The first company to get a clue is likely to see their sales rocket.
Please bring your tray tables and seats to its upright and secured position, put away any portable radios or electronic equipment you may have. Note that the fasten seat belt sign is on, please keep your seatbelts on and tightenened at all times. Even when the fasten seatbelt sign is not lit, we reccoment that you keep your seatbelt on at all times. We will be passing around immigrations forms soon, pl...Kaboom!
And it's the drink of choice of this college freshmen. Let's all get under-age and fucked-up!
"Our first potential OEM (original equipment manufacturer) customers are already holding their first units in their hands," said Manfred Stefener, CEO of Smart Fuel Cell.
That's sick. What's he talking about?
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
is THE browser!.. especially for first posters.. :)
If they wanted to make it really useful they would provide a recharge unit. I know Motorola has a prototype FC for their phones that has a fuel reservoir and a water reservoir. As the fuel gets spent it turns to water. When you hook up your phone to a charger the FC membrane reverses and turns the water back into whatever fuel it was before. Looks like they want you to have to buy their pre-charged units so they can keep making money.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
CM is such a dweeb
Why would I want to pay $3 to "charge" my battery when I can plug into any electric outlet and get a charge for free? Hexk, I can usually find an outlet in the airport waiting rooms and charge up while I'm waiting for my delayed flight. What is the benefit here?
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Can someone comment on why these fuel cells use methanol instead of isopropyl alcohol? Is it a matter of efficiency, or is the reaction not acceptable for some reason (e.g., byproducts, manufacturing process)?
Isopropyl is much more easily available (most hotel gift shops even carry it, not to mention every grocery and drug store). If the fuel cells were consumer refillable with isopropyl, they would be accepted by the market much more easily.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
I thought I'd wrap up a number of points in one post rather than make several replies:
"Also, if I'm staying in a hotel, charging my batteries is free."
It's not free, the hotels expect you to do it and build it into the cost. If methanol becomes popular with travellers, the hotel will pop down to the hardware store, buy a couple of gallons of methanol, and offer that free on tap to guests too.
"This will become even worse if cells arrive that run off of pure hydrogen-PEM (proton exchange membrane) fuel cells that run on hydrogen"
All PEM fuel cells run on hydrogen. Methanol based fuel cells simply break down the methanol into hydrogen and its constituent parts before it hits the PEM.
"However, if the methanol charges for the fuel cells are not rechargeable themselves, we will be adding a MORE exhaust to the environment, in the form of the disposed charger."
You don't recharge a methanol cell, you just squirt in more methanol to replace what has been used up.
"Ok, fine methanol works as a safe hydrogen storage method, but I was under the impression that fuel cells use hydrogen AND oxygen to create electricity and as a byproduct create H2O. Where does the water go?"
Methanol is 50% oxygen, 37.5% carbon and 12.5% hydrogen. So yes water will be produced and there must be some drainage tap (so you will have to take your laptop for a pee on the plane). There will also be carbon deposits you will have to dispose of. I wonder also how often the PEM has to be changed, as carbon will clog it up if not effectively filtered out.
There are plenty of fuel cell articles at Future Energies, including how a fuel cell is heating my local swimming pool! Check it out.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
--No one. It's just my Inspiron.
dinner: it's what's for beer
We seem to be developing some weird urban legends relating to electronic devices. My cable TV company ordered me not to install an FM splitter on my own -- if not done by a "trained technician" (snicker), it might cause airplanes to fall out of the sky. Many gas stations now ban people from talking on their cells while fueling, because somebody told someone that they'd heard somewhere that a gas station was destroyed when sparks from a cell ignited the fumes. (Think about it, what has more circuitry, a cell phone or a car?) And of course, flight attendents have all kinds of vague safety rules they have to enforce, most of which they don't actually understand. So you can't use your computer if it has a CD drive, because somebody thinks lasers are an issue. And somebody decided "anything with an antenna"...
How long before we start seeing fuel cell refill kits like the inkjet refill kits they have now. Probably not long since they charge $3-5 per refill and methanol costs a fraction of that.
Let's do the math: lets say $3 for a 120 mL cartidge, that is $25 per liter or $96 per gallon. Considering in the Wired article that they say methanol costs $0.33 per gallon that is a bit much don't you think?
I see where they make all of their money now.
That stuff is just a gimmick... and not any better than Gordons or Beefeater. Hell, I'm surprised it doesn't come in a plastic squeeze bottle like the cheap stuff. Real men drink Tanqueray, the finest gin on this planet.
when I can take my laptop outside the office building to the smoking section where we can both take a few drags off some menthol fags wilst we play quake.
I just hope they enable the smoking section with a wireless network.
They'll start making diapers for laptops.
"sniff sniff... what is that Smell?"
"my laptop, I ran out of regular methanol so I found a natural source.... did you know that pig farms capture and store the methan gas from the pix excrement?"
I can see the mother earth news neophites are gonna havbe fun with this!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
With all that good information, I was surprised you didn't mention antifreeze. Years ago, antifreeze was made with ethanol. Farmers put antifreeze in their tractor tires to help keep them from having to refill the tires every time the weather changes.
Now here's the funny part. People used to go looking for drinks in the farmers' tires. That wouldn't be too bad in itself, unless you're the farmer. But then a few years ago, they changed antifreeze to methanol, instead of ethanol. So the younger generation, upon hearing the older generations stories of drunken nights in fields, decides to go try it. Now we've got farmer Jones field full of blind, methanol poisoned high school students.
I really get a kick out of stories like this. I really like those Darwin Awards, too, though. *shrug*
It's easy to stand out when the general level of competence is so low.
There are other issues involved here. Does 120 mL of methanol either in a bottle or in a sealed metal container meet the definition of a hazardous material? If so, this would place it under the regulations of the International Air Transport Assoc. (IATA) regulations?
Looking at Table 2.3.A (2002 IATA DGR), I can assure you that methanol in a bottle, other than methanol used in a medicinal or toilet article with an individual vol. of 500 mL or less, will be prohibited. The Regs related to lighters state that only a lighter with fuel or fluid that is fully absorbed into a solid (ie. old style Zippo lighters)can be carried by a person on a flight. It forbids the possession of a refill, lighter or container of unabsorbed liquid fuel, except liquefied gas, on a person, in a carry-on or in checked baggage.
Unfortunately, the only hope is for the rules to be amended. This would require testing of the packaging to assure that it would not leak under any circumstance.
"Endeavour to persevere"
I can see it now at HardOCP:
I just modded my laptop, not only does it have a clear case, a liquid cooled CPU but I put on a 4 barrel micro-holly carb with a supercharger on on the fuel cell and MAN does that baby purr.
With this puppy I can whip any ground based gamerw while in flight. Just kick it into overdrive!
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
I don't like the idea of cartridges. It's bad enough with printer ink cartridges, which we all replace on a regular basis, and are phenomenally environmentally expensive on packaging (Plastic cartridge, seal/valve, foil wrapping, cardboard box, etc, etc...)
These cartridges are likely to be similarly packaged, and we're going to be replacing them far more frequently.
As far as I'm concerned, I shall just buy one, drill a hole in it, fit a small valve, and buy a big bottle of methanol from a chemical supplier. Much cheaper, and more environmentally friendly.
Promised....is the operative word in this press release. Sounds like they are looking for another round of funding to bring the product to market....Please let us know when we can buy one, at a price smaller than the laptop it powers.
A GM yeast has been developed that keeps fermenting til it hits a proof somewhere in the brandy range. BEFORE distillation. Admittedly the current Methanol manufacture and distribution infrastructure is ... suboptimal for an energy network. I would like to point out that humans have little to no difficulty manufacturing and distributing ETHANOL. 120 ml of ethanol (plus elegant ambient surroundings) costs around five bucks, and less than one buck if you spring for a whole bottle and skip the ferns and brass rail.
What do you wanna bet that fuel cell-powered laptops will be banned from airlines because of their volatility and possible use as a weapon? 120 ml of methanol is enough to start a reasonable sized fire, or perhaps even enough to be used in some sort of explosive device. That would be kind of ironic, because long flights are when you'd most want the longevity provided by a fuel cell.
Uhm,
You really lucky you are an Anonymous Coward on this one, this should be a -1 FlameBait 8)
Gordon and Beefeater are damn standard gins, Bombay has TASTE, where the ones you champion only have POTENCY
Tanqueray didn't do it up to my bar. Is it good, ot is it another flamebait .
P.S. Yes. OffTopic. So Sue Me ! (and another 5' in Karma gone 8) I'll have to reincarnate as an MCP SysAdmin 8|
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Possibly we will find a way that is NOT using Thermodynamic Law ...
Sub Molecular Energy ? Radio Waves that allow Efficient Bond Breaking, without going to Plasma ? (think sub microwave)...Or just think Plasma...and Fusion...
It's a possibility.
And remember, a Physical Rule can be Overuled (or is it"A Law in Physics is only valid til you find a better one " ?)
We have seen there are many possible ways to achieve the same result. Possibly this one will come.
And then I'll try to post it and brag 8)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
/.
Your batteries also produce waste chemicals as they generate electricity to run your devices. Where do those chemicals go? Think about it.
The DMFC technology doesn't need cooling to the degree that other laptop parts do - in fact Li-Ion batteries might get hotter than a DMFC cell, according to the inventors.
I wonder why the article doesn't talk about traditional recharging from a wall outlet? As I understand it, DMFC is an outgrowth of PEM technology, and generic PEM cells can be "run backwards" to recreate their fuel mix - much like a traditional battery, but with the additional requirement of avoiding carbon poisoning of the membrane.
--Charlie
Yuck. I would not touch such lap-top if I were you. I think being poisonous is why methanol is not used for powering cars (it is quite cheap to produce it). And accidental leaks ARE going to happend, especialy if you have to refill the batery manually. They should better use ethanol. It is much saver- a lot of people drink it and are fine, albeit dizzy.
--Coder
Whereas with liquid fuel, I'd have to worry about extra sloshing out, easier combustion and availability (not to mention price).
& on top of that, remember that 120ml is roughly a third of a can of (crappy American) beer - which is roughly the size of the volume taken up by my Compaq's external power supply and cord.
As someone who's had to hook up a laptop to a solar panel in Africa, it's obvious to me that it would be alot easier to deal with methanol than solar power - especially during the rainy season. My guess is that these cells would only get more efficient with time as well...
One important question that needs to be asked is whether the investment of energy to obtain the methanol is greater than or less than the energy returns. Naturally, by the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the total energy investment is at least as great as the returns. However, since alcohols can be obtained by fermentation by yeasts, that energy needn't all come from fossil fuels. The important factor then is how much energy is required to distil sufficiently pure methanol out of the fermentation products. If you can get high-yield methanol from distilation with a small enough investment of energy, then this technology is valuable and should be explored to the fullest. If you cannot, then this technology should be abandoned or shelved. Any energy storage method, be it a chemical battery, a tank of methanol, or a spring, must be judged based on the effectiveness of storing in/retrieving from that storage device.
Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
I already have problems getting on a plane...
mr. rent-a-cop "Is that a bomb"
"No, That is not a bomb it is just my 100 hour battery for my laptop..."
Reliablility? These cells don't sound like a very stable power source. What do you think?
~Dvorak GOTO1 GOTO GOTO
This, of course highlights the stupidity of current FAA regs on what can be carried aboard aircraft these days. Leaving aside the possiblity that I'll have an easier time hijacking a plane by beating people with my shoes than threatening them with a nail clipper...
Lighters (and likely these methanol cartridges) are banned on board. Yet I can carry my Lithium-Ion powered Magnesium laptop on board. Have you ever seen a Magnesium fire? Right, but it's hard to light. Now, have you ever seen a Lithium fire? Do you know what happens when you short a Li-Ion battery? (Heck some Apple, and I think IBM Li-Ions didn't even need to be shorted)
So we're all allowed to something that approximates a thermite grenade, but they're worried about nail files. [sigh]
Bruce Schneier was right. It's not about security, it's about the appearance of security to convince the sheeple to fly.
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
I might not be up to the latest laptop news, but what laptops run at 15W?
The screen and cpu alone must be more. 600Mhz Athlons use more power than that. The P4s take more power then the athlons, even with the speedstep, there is no way a current notebook will run with it.
But a somewhat curious way of reaping the profits.
You'll see their venture-capital supported company do real well for one or two years, then it'll be driven in the ground by strange expenses and no investments.
When it's down on it's knees it is sold to one of the original investors into "III" and, surprise!! will be back on it's feet in no time.
The guy from the inner circle (school tie!)that bought it will have made a handsome profit on taxpayers expenses!
i'd love to start my laptop up like a lawn mower, or boat!
I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
Can existing laptops using fuel cells later on when it becomes affordable?
That would be awfully nice if we can.
kawai
What the heck would I drink then? Well, I guess I could take Lithium. NM, problem solved.
Methanol for these devices will be sold in tiny commodity containers like the CO2 cartridges for seltzer bottles and bicycle tire inflators. They'll be available in convenience stores just like batteries, for a similar price.
Carrying flasks of combustable fuel is not exactly the coolest thing in my mind.
"There is no way hydrogen is ever going to be allowed aboard an airplane,"
Oh dear whatever will travelers do! Sitting in the middle of the air inside a hollow several ton metal contraption FILLED with explosive fuel! Wherever will they get power for there tiny little low power laptops!?!?
Jartan
>My NT workstation's been up for 3 months and the servers are going on 2 years.
turning your box up-end and leaving the electricity off, does not constititue a an up-system.
Nor does simply installing it and then leaving electricity off.
They actually have to do something, unlike you.
Any radio receiver uses an IF stage. Usually, it's the IF transmission ("leakage") which could drive the NAV instruments crazy.
This is why your radar detector goes nuts when passing someone else with a radar detector...the IF stage transmissions from their "receiver" are picked up by your receiver...
"Our first...customers are already holding their first units in their hands," said Manfred Stefener, CEO of Smart Fuel Cell.
;)
If only i could get MINE to go for 10 hours... heh...
INsigNIFICANT
I'm generally more trusting of corporations than a lot of folks that hang out here. But in the case of banning cell phone usage on airplanes, I can't help but believe the interest is at least partly related forcing people to use the horribly expensive SkyTel system on board, instead of their relatively cheap cell phone time.
:-)
I can just see them pulling the same thing with fuel cells. Under the guise of "safety," they'll make more bucks by banning fuel cell refilling, forcing you to plug into their special outlets (or use their special "safe" fuel cell fuel) for a fee. Watch for it
(I just wish the airlines would focus upon making money through transportation, and making that a pleasurable experience so do more of it, rather than gouging us every step of the way on extras. Heck, you have our money for the ticket, make us happy with a few cheap extras, and we'll be back for another ticket.)
-me
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
So you're the one whose servers are still vulnerable to all those nasty worms!. I'll send you my bandwidth bill.
In this article, I have seen atleast 15 people mention hydrogen. This system does not freaking use HYDROGEN. It uses Methanol, a very aboundant byproduct of wood, manufactured easily and cheaply. It's used for a number of things: decontamination, and general pourpose solvent being the 2 big ones.
Nope. Plastics and gasoline additives are the two big ones.
As far as it being a clean source of energy.. I'd hesitate on calling that shot. They use energy from (possibly not directly from) fossil fuels to get the stuff in the first place, and seeing as how wood is a major source of it, deforestation is a problem, isn't it?
In this article, I've seen at least 150 people mention wood. The majority of methanol is not made from freakin' WOOD. The annual production in the US is 35.7 million tons per year. If all this methanol was made of wood, the entire Earth would have been stripped bare of trees decades ago.
The majority of methanol used today comes from reforming natural gas (methane). Here is a paragraph from a major manufacturer of methanol:
Methanol is a primary liquid petrochemical made from renewable and non-renewable fossil fuels containing carbon and hydrogen. Also known as Methyl Alcohol (CH3OH), it is manufactured from synthesis gas, a combination of carbon oxides in hydrogen produced from natural gas. Methanol is then synthesized under pressure in a catalytic process and the crude methanol is purified to chemical grade by distillation. Natural gas is the feedstock used in most of the world's production of methanol and typically represents the most significant cost component. Methanol is a chemical building block used to produce formaldehyde, acetic acid and a variety of other chemical intermediates. A significant amount of methanol is also used to make MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), an additive used in cleaner-burning gasoline.
RTFA again and then follow the link to the American Methanol Institute halfway through the article.
So what ?
...)
... 8)
Perpetual movement is considered impossible as of now.
A chemical reaction that could produce more energy than it needs starting is possible.
If you consider that some of the water is destroyed in the process, this isn't perpetual, you'll have to feed it...
You remember Manganese-Aluminium Oxydo reduction ?
You start it as low as 200C, it devellop 1400C, if you feed it Aluminium it will continue...
If I can explode water with a small force and get more, I can get Fusion and feed the nuclear thingy with more H or O...
No you cannot convince me, bacause it's possible I'll find it because I tried, and you won't because you dismissed it as impossible from scratch.
Just imagine Franklin and Volta ! (Electricity ? No Future !) Imagine Tesla (his engine is still quite of a shock to Students
So, open your mind 8) It's not because it seems impossible that it is.
BTW, see project Light Tunnel on the Bet. They had light from a laser going @2c (2*speed of light). Also recently, somebody found 2 ways to stop and/store light. You know what ? both are absolutly impossible ! Speed of light is a constant, no ? should be c... and we get 2c for c and c=0, at the same time... Shocking
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
So I went and looked for myself. According to the FCC cellular FAQ, their regs ban cell use only when the plane is in the air. (Section 22.925 47 CFR Part 22.) I couldn't find an official explanation as to why, but news reports say that FCC hearings in 1991 raised concerns over interference ground networks. In any case, it's difficult to see why else the FCC would care.
This regulation may or may not make sense technically, but it does exist.
As for use of electronic gadgets on airplanes, that's covered by this FAA circular. Transmitters of any kind are banned. There's nothing specific about receivers or other gadgets, but operators are required to make their own rules banning devices that might interfere with the operation of the plane. So obviously the rules against "things with antennas" and lasers come from the airlanes -- or maybe even individual flight crew.
Here's my last word on the gas station story. Your logic is very interesting, but I prefer to actually count the teeth. In a previous link (I can't be bothered to find and post it again) I referred to a safety expert who reported the utter absence of this episode in his professional literature.