Slashdot Mirror
A Walk Through the Gentoo Linux Install Process
Gentoo solved many problems for me. Some distros install everything, whether you really need it or not. Not Gentoo; other than the base packages required for Linux to run, the only software installed on the system is the software you put there. Gentoo resolves dependencies automatically, eliminating RPM prerequisite hell. As an added bonus I got something I wasn't even expecting. Speed. Blinding, blazing, incredible speed.
The main advantage to the Gentoo distribution is Portage, a python-based ports system similar to BSD ports. For those of you unfamiliar with BSD ports, Portage is a package management tool that downloads and installs source instead of precompiled packages. When I need a program I download, install and compile it with one command:
emerge nmap
The above will download the nmap source code, compile and install it. Of course this method is slow, but it has its rewards. You can also opt to use prebuilt binaries if you are not extremely patient. It took me five hours to get the base Gentoo installed on my PIII with 128 megs of ram. It wasn't a big deal as I had other things to do, but I would like to see the installation process optimized so that it doesn't require any babysitting.
Gentoo is running two of my mission-critical servers right now, I consider it to be stable and mature. A warning, though: this is not a distribution for dummies. This is bare metal Linux, powerful and dangerous. If you do something without thinking you may fall into a bucket of pain.
Let's begin my story.
I download the iso from http://www.ibiblio.org/gentoo/releases/build /. There is a choice of install images here. My favorite way of installing Gentoo is to compile everything, a time consuming process. This method requires a slim 16-meg iso. You may want to grab an iso with pre-built binaries to speed things up, however. This fat iso weighs in at 103 meg. I download the big one with the prebuilt binaries even though I won't use them -- just in case.
I boot my laptop with my shiny new Gentoo CD. The Gentoo install uses isolinux by Peter Anvin. I like the fact that they don't obscure it, giving credit where it is due. It boots quickly and there is a PCI autodetection process, it shouldn't find much on my laptop. Interesting, it loads a SCSI module. Perhaps it has detected my IDE CD burner. Usually this will detect any PCI NIC cards that are installed, but it does not detect my PCMCIA device (of course). After the PCI detection I get a command prompt. I use nano (a small text editor) to open up install.txt, the excellent install doc. Usually these docs are sufficient but the latest ones can be found here:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/build.html
Keeping the install doc open in this virtual terminal, I hit alt-f2 to open a new one. I begin by loading the pcmcia drivers and installing networking. This is all done at the command line ( insmod, ifconfig, route, dhcpcd, etc.). I use nano to add my DNS servers to /etc/resolv.conf. A word of caution; get in the habit of always using the -w switch with nano. If you do not use the -w switch nano's word wrap feature will jack up your config files. I ping a reliable site, networking is up!
Next I partition my system using fdisk. I choose a simple layout with a swap partition, a root partition and a small boot partition. The boot partition remains unmounted during use, a nice precaution. For filesystems you have a choice of ext2, ext3, ReiserFS and XFS. In my personal experience I've noticed that Reiser performance really rocks when combined with SCSI drives, but as this is an IDE system I think I'll go with XFS. Besides, the XFS tools seem to be a lot more mature than the offerings from Reiser. I format and mount the partitions from the command line creating a /mnt/gentoo directory. I then untar the root filesystem; here I have the choice of the small tarball that requires you to compile everything or a larger tarball that contains pre-built binaries. If you untar the big guy you are almost finished with your install at this point. Using chroot and some scripts you chroot the /mnt/gentoo directory. From this point on you are operating under your new gentoo system.
The first thing I do under my chrooted system is issue this command:
emerge rsync
This downloads the latest version of the portage tree. The portage tree is found under /usr/portage and contains the ebuild scripts used to compile/install programs. Currently there are over 1000 up to date emerge sripts. Next I edit /etc/make.conf, here I can choose compiler settings. I optimize everything for i686. Now it's time to build the GNU compiler and libraries. I run the bootstrap script and leave for lunch. On my PIII 500 the boostrap process takes 2 hours and 2 minutes.
The second emerge command I issue is:
emerge system
Now emerge downloads, compiles and installs my base system packages. I sit back, relax and take the time to fax my legislators a rant about the DMCA. One hour and 30 minutes later it is finished.
Now it is time to download and install the kernel. First I make a link updating my timezone, and then I issue another emerge command:
emerge linux-sources
This grabs the latest kernel, 2.4.19, and drops the source in /usr/src/linux. Ten minutes have elapsed. Now comes the fun, compiling your kernel. That's right, everyone who installs Gentoo compiles their own kernel as a matter of process. I like this. There are some distributions out there that actually say you should never compile your own kernel. Shame on them. I use make menuconfig and the standard commands to compile my kernel. Since Gentoo uses devfs I select /dev file system support and I am also careful to compile in support for XFS. I don't have the kernel mount devfs automatically at boot as the Gentoo startup scripts take care of this for me. Virtual Memory file system support is also enabled.
At this point in time I get to choose a logger. My choices are sysklogd, syslog-ng or metalog. I choose metalog, because it's got the coolest name. I download, compile and install it using a single command:
emerge metalog
XFS has some nice utilities, I better install those. I have some other essential programs to install, and I'm feeling a bit lazy so I chain them all in one big command.
emerge xfsprogs;emerge bitchx;emerge vim;emerge links
At this point I'm feeling pretty 7-Up. I edit my /etc/fstab file, my /etc/hostname file and /etc/hosts. The passwd command is run to set the root passwd. I add my NIC module to the file /etc/modules.autoload and edit /etc/conf.d/net. conf.d/net allows me to configure my IP address and settings, default gateway and alias. I take a look at /etc/init.d/net.eth0, even though I don't need to edit it. I can then add it to the startup script using this command:rc-update add net.eth0 default
This adds the script to the default runlevel to be executed at startup. Startup scripts are another place Gentoo really shines. The startup scripts have a system of dependencies. For example net.eth0 can depend on pcmcia. The pcmcia drivers get loaded before net.eth0 - this is good.
Next I install grub. If you haven't used grub before, it's nice. You can boot to a kernel directly from the grub shell, without having to edit a config file. lilo is still available, for those of you who prefer it. Gentoo likes to let you make the decisions.
I exit my chrooted shell and unmount all directories. Reboot! Gentoo comes up and the install process is complete.
The Gentoo install process has taught me a lot about Linux, and I like the fact that the command line is embraced, instead of hidden behind gui or scripts. I also like the speed (which is debatable since all I can supply is anecdotal evidence). I wasn't too happy about waiting five hours for everything to compile, but I think it was worth it. I can tell you it compiles and greps noticeably faster than other distros I have run on the exact same machines. I really enjoy using portage, and the packages seem to stay up to date -- if not bleeding edge. This is not a conservative distribution like Debian, however I like the aggressive and intelligent direction gentoo is taking.
If you are considering trying out Gentoo I highly suggest #gentoo on irc.openprojects.net. Also subscribe to the mailing lists found at www.gentoo.org. The Gentoo community has helped me out of several jams in the past, I think they will treat you good too.
While writing this, I received help from a lot of people. However I would like to personally thank the people I ripped off word for word. Thanks notafurry of www.kuro5hin.org for your pointed help with the stilted second paragraph and thank you Ween from #gentoo on openprojects.net for your clean description of portage.
Once again demonstrating that k5 has better and more timely news than /.
Oh god. What have I done? No, k5 sucks. Really. Stay away. Stay far, far away. You have absolutely no desire to get a k5 account.
pooptruck
and no mention that "Gentoo Linux" is an anagram for "Lounge Toxin"?
Their website has a great look!
???? Thank you for the -1 mod!!!!!!
I have created a site that will allow you to post your Compile Times for the different packages, relative to your hardware.
It's in alpha stage right now, but I'll add features as we go a long. Any suggestions would be appreciated. You must signup first in order to post your compile times.
Hopefully at some point, one willbe able to get a sense of how long it would take to install, say kde3.
-= Xafloc =-
alinuxbox.com
N
The Gentoo site looks about like that of every other distro out there... just fine if you know exactly what you're looking for. How about grabbing a few average Linux users and watching them try to find what they need? I think people just don't realize how poor a lot of the websites and documentation are.
I think Debian, for example, is a fine installation. I've used it frequently. But the website really irritated me when I needed to find some specific floppy images and hardware support the other day. I got so frustrated that I finally gave up and went to FreeBSD. It's far from perfect, but I found what I was looking for in short order and quickly had the machine up and running.
Here's a question for anyone involved in the production of ANY distro out there: Is there ANY form of usability testing that goes into these sites? What's the process these people are using for designing the sites?
I think Gentoo is great. It's FreeBSD, clean and fast. It would definitely take some work to get it up to a point where all of your desktop toys work, but I don't care about that stuff much.
/boot partition somehow disappeared! fsck chucked out some serious errors, and I had to start over again... and that was not fun.
My only problem with the installation was that it didn't like the partitions I made with Partition Magic. It installed fine, but afterword when I tried to setup Grub, the
It was rather annoying, the babysitting. You just have to sit there an type in a lame command or two now and then. Why can't the installer do that for me?
In summary, use Gentoo because it's not-bloated, fast, easier than Debian (in my opinion), and Portage is great.
thanks again for the -1 mod---- who are these people????????????
Rock Linux sounds pretty similar. Anyone know how they compare?
that the reliable site he pinged is down right now.
A wellwritten article on slashdot. I'm buying a skitrip to hell.
I would suggest that anyone wanting real control over a linux box use the LFS (linux from scratch) distrobution. You can find it here LSF.ORG .
This is truly the way to make a customized system. The Problem with the BSD ports system is that It tells you what is the best version to run. If you do it this way you will have a complete understanding of your system.
In Short: If you really want a geeked out version of linux. Do it from scratch with LFS.
This is not a conservative distribution like Debian,
There are 3 debians, at varying degrees of 'conservativyosity'
Stable: Potato is dead stable and conservative. To put it another way: it's old, and you probably wouldn't want it on your desktop.
Testing: Woody is very stable (IME more stable than RH FWIW), and quite up to date (g++ 3 etc)
Unstable: Not sure of the name because I wouldn't use it. I don't know how stable it is, but I am thinking that it's quite up to date with the latest releases.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make in a rather longwinded mannar, is that debian will be as conservative as you want it to be. There is always a tradeoff between "up to date" and "no nasty surprises" debian is very honest about letting you choose.
Tales from behind the Lagom Curtain
the one thing I miss about debian(ok, so there others, but this one in particular) and am wondering if I am just missing it in the config files somewhere. Does gentoo have a menu system? with debian when you install a new package, it throws a menu entry on all window managers you have installed(windowmaker, blackbox, kde, gnome, etc). Thus, whether I use blackbox or windowmaker or whatever, I have all the programs in a nice menu that is identical across most window managers(kde is a notable exception where stuff is slightly different). Is there a system like this in Gentoo and i'm missing it? if not, are there any plans to include something like it?
Can someone explain this term?
Is it like: "I never metadistribution I didn't like?"
; )
Don't read this!
I have gentoo up and running on my laptop, and my desktop. I consider myself as an intermediate to semi-advanced linux buff, but I had never really knew the intricities of installing a distribution from complete source and what happens at the core of the installation (thanks to all those GUI installers). It was a great learning experience - at times I had some trouble, but #gentoo actually has the gentoo developers in there helping people with problems and trying to resolve them. Kudos to the Gentoo team.
Upgrading to a new version of gentoo is easy, and straight forward with the Portage system. There is no need to reinstall, like some flavors of linux, just a simple emerge --update system and an emerge --update world.
The distro is fast - in fact - much faster than my mandrake box I had on my desktop (before I migrated to gentoo). I have no benchmarks, but the bloat is gone, and the speed is there.
Wow, Gentoo IS advanced. They have a time machine!
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Anyone know how well Gentoo works with LVM, Linux's logical volumn manager? I run Mandrake 8.1 at work and probably won't switch but at home, I also run Mandrake and would likely switch if the dist properly supported lvm. Particularly if that dist supported KDE 3 which I see Gentoo does.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
There is also Sorcerer at http://sorcerer.wox.org/. It is another Source based distribution.
There is also LFS at http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ which is a Source based distribution where you type all of the commands.
Has anyone compared Rock, Gentoo, Sourcerer and LFS?
Afterall, there's always Extraterrestrial life to search for, encryption to break, or maybe even a cure for cancer. Do we all really need to re-compile rsync?
This is bare metal Linux, powerful and dangerous. If you do something without thinking you may fall into a bucket of pain.
I learned this lesson the hard way. I installed a new kernel manually, rather than letting Portage handle it. I must have missed something, because now a growing list of stuff won't compile and all my efforts to fix it have only exacerbated the problem, so I guess it's time to reinstall. Other than that little foul up (not the distro's fault), it's been smooth sailing. Just remember to update the config files when Portage tells you to.
THis is a very similar type project/setup as the Apache toolkit, which is what I use to configure nd compile apache sources. (AT is Perl based, and this sounds like it is python based)
AT has the same problems as gentoo, the babysitting. Seems to me that this is a case of needing to figure out up front what questions need to be asked. The scripts for how to a build a particular component should contain that info. If you specify that you want to build under apache the jakarta stuff, you actually need Java, jakarta-ant, and Jakarta-tomcat.
This is probably what makes Red Hat so successful: they have most of the dependencies front loaded so you don't need to baby sit for the long installs.
Open Source Identity Management: FreeIPA.org
Gentoo is a nice distro with tons of potential. The debate whether it is neccessary to compile glibc and everything in the system from scratch aside, the freedom that it allows is incredible. It reminds me a lot of slackware in its openness. There's no shoving stuff down your throat, just one swank port system.
Not to start a distro war, but I always thought linux distros fall into 2 categories; on one side the colorful, happy-newbie distros with many good features and nice interfaces, but ultimately dreadful underbelly that you get exposed to when things go wrong. On the other hand are distros like slack and debian; will install on anything initially, run fine, and if something goes wrong, they're as transparent as can be and tweakable as hell.
Problem with slack is that the community is slowly dwindling. Security updates get less frequent, packages are updated and maintained at a slower pace, ultimately making most of the stuff installed non-distro specific and thereby more complex and harder to update.
Gentoo is as open and simple as slack, just as tweakable and in active development. If the community doesn't get discouraged with some early troubles with the portage system and documentation proliferates, there is a very bright future for the distro.
Dammit, how can I post a comment that'll piss off streetlawyer AND trhurler at the same time if the site is dead?
Best Slashdot Co
I've been using Gentoo for a few weeks now and you just fall in love with it. Now that I have one box done it's time to migrate all of my boxes to it. But seeing that my boxes are pretty much the same I will most likly creat my own binary packages and use those to install the other boxes. No need to compile it on every machine when they all have the same processor type. Which is nice. I can have compile box and the rest can just grab the new compiled package from it.
I have a R*dh*t box at work (that was set up by a total incompetent, which makes things even worse) that's screaming for an upgrade...while I can get LFS going in not much time now, I think I'll end up giving Gentoo a shot when the time comes.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
1. Stick finger up ass
2. Remove finger from ass, sniff finger
The reason K5 has been down most of the day is because Rusty followed the advice of this article and installed Gentoo Linux on it.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
I'm in the middle of an installation....the mirrors are gonna get bogged!
And what about debian apt system ? His stability,speed ?
As my friend say:
"I don't know distro that is better then debian" !
This is the fp. All others are cheap pisspoor imitations.
If you have an i686 I recommend getting the i686 iso and simply jumping to the stage 3 install. Basically you'll save yourself a bunch o time since the base install is already compiled for your CPU. No sense in doing over again.
You'll still have to install X and apps and the kernel, but at least the base will be taken care of.
Switched to Gentoo 6 months ago from FreeBSD/Linux setup and haven't looked back since.
Even put it on a new production server. Very nice.
Have fun with what IMHO is the BEST distrib around!
Eddy.WriteLinux.Com
He did say, in his diary (last night), that he some secret plan for something cool. Methinks it bit him in the butt.
Best Slashdot Co
This distribution SOUNDS nice, but plain sucks in practice. First, to remove the suckage, have a cd full of source tars. No need for the net.
That in itself is the main gripe. Bandwidth is the biggest problem. I can bring my computer to my college to download an image (or few). It's big, but once a few months isn't bad. However, all I've got is a modem connection at home (and I'm sure gentoo's program doesnt support resuming). What?! KDE desnt come with it? Guess I'll have to download it. (a day and a half later)... Still isn't done! DAMN! Heh, and then comes compile-time.
Face it, this distribution is for high bandwidth connections, not for us modem users. And what's really funny is that just yesterday, Slashdot posts article: "Time Warner to Charge Extra for Over-Quota Bandwidth". Yeah, these go together real well.... Reeeeal well.
Monolithic And Proud Of It
... (I couldn't put the rest here because of the lameness filter)
Word, Scrabble Score
EXULTING, 16 | OXTONGUE, 16 | LOXING, 14 | TOXINE, 13 | EXTOL, 12 | EXULT, 12 | IXTLE, 12 | TOXIN, 12 |
Is it possible? Or is this a broadband-only distro?
Portage is nothing like ports, nor is it compatible.
The build system doesn't do half what BSD does. Its a step in the right direction, however, it definitely needs to mature.
Every once in a while, someone decides to write a robust, simple, minimalist Linux distro for folks who aren't afraid to get their fingers dirty -- but they don't realize that Slackware already exists, so they re-implement it. Not that this is a bad thing! More Slackware-like distributions is entirely more desirable than not.
-- Guges --
The site is at least pleasant to use. However, owing to a 10gb of BSD/Linux ISO's (all less than 1 week old) I've yet to try this distro. O blessed be the bandwidth!
Ali
"Windows and Linux can co-exist on the same machine." - Microsoft Corporation.
it'd be nice if one of these compile-it-yourself distributions worked with Intel's Linux C++ compiler (icc). Though Intel's compiler still doesn't support compiling the kernel and some other stuff, lots of software compiles just fine with icc. You can consistently obtain 10-20% improvements over gcc 2.9x in cpu intensive applications using icc (I haven't compared versus gcc 3.0 yet).
The icc license should be ok for home users to compile programs for their own use with it. I think you only have to buy the license if you plan on distributing binaries.
This sort of thing really does need to stop. As long as the moderators keep modding down these attacks on people's faith, many people don't have to see them. But some people enjoy the -1 posts, eh? GafTheHorseInTears obvioulsy has some deep, long-running hatred of Christianity, and feels that expressing it here is either: a) funny, or b) gonna get him noticed as a "free thinker" or something. Since when is Slashdot a place for putting people's religions down?
I have been using Gentoo since 1.0 came out a couple weeks ago.
I have to say I am in love, fast, slim system
with only what I want and need, and its easy.
I messed with LFS for a while, and sorcerer as well,
LFS is kinda a pain, too much typing/babysitting, sorcerer never quite worked right.
Looking for a good source based distro?
This is IT. Portage is very nice, so far, I'm always downloading the source at my bandwidth limits. I like it.
Like the wise man said
"Linux is for free only if your time is worthless"
And your right most of the hardcore users have no life and enjoy fiddling with their puters more than getting actual work done. So your right in your case stick to 2k.
is a complete distro compile re-install.
Basically I install my distro, say Suse, with everything I want, then type somthing like 'compile all' and have it automatically recompile everything. A nice extra would be if it could grab the source from my choice of locations:HD, DVD,CD,Net, etc...
Quite frankly I'm getting a little burned out on tweaking my system. I just want to use it, and spend time with my kids.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm a windows user. I use windows at work and run it on my computers at home. I've always wanted to install Linux on one of my machines (There is only so much drooling over nice KDE screenshots that I can take.)
I'm fortunate enough to have "Linux friend" who helps me.. but more often than not they type and I watch. I've made attempts at installing Slackware, Gentoo and Debian. The most recent attempt (successful) involved my friend spending quite a bit of time battling away at the console to download the latest Debian bits. So I now have a working KDE system that I can play around with to learn the ropes. And this is what I wanted.
But the biggest problem I faced when trying to learn Linux is the installation process. It's discouraged me no end. In my defense, I'm not stupid, I'm actually a software engineer, although yes.. purely windows (and no, not VB).
My point (getting there) is that you can say what you will about windows but it beats Linux hands down on the installation. Until the Linux installation process becomes as simple as booting from a CD and clicking "Next" a few hundred times, it will not have the user base it deserves.
I know there's plenty of documentation, help, support, walkthroughs etc.. etc.. but it's just not enough. I haven't found a distribution with a one-off graphical installer (and neither has my friend). There's always a bunch of commands you're going to have to learn and instructions to follow. For many (including myself), this is too daunting, and I don't want to spend a great deal of time reading up on something beforehand.
I'm not trying to troll here I just think that until we see more distributions with simpler-than-simple installers, Linux will very much remain "underground".
So if there's no distribution that does this already, can a Linux code-monkey write an app for windows that downloads and burns the desired Linux, then having booted from the CD, walks you through from start to finish, clicking on "Next" and "OK" etc..?
My life is one big siesta in which I'm dreaming I wished my life was one big siesta.
Monolinux is a linux-only slashdot-style website, with various interesting links on Linux (and better moderation ;)
Oh. Scroll of genocide or scroll of polymorph?
Or you just going to plain zap it with magic missle, or will you use a spell of digging to plummet it to its death?
I've got a cursed -2 2-handed axe here for you to use if you want to resort to physical violence. Never mind the fact that I'm using a shovel to pass it to you. It won't weld itself to your hands, promise.
Has anyone manage to get this running under Vmware?
The boot cd was able to detect Buslogic scsi adapter but doesn't see the scsi disk. I'm stuck at the partitioning disk step.
Thanks to Anagram Finder here are some highlights from the 4157 acronyms found for Gentoo Linux:
Elgin Unto Ox
Legion On Tux
Legion Nut Ox
Legit Noun Ox
Gel I Noon Tux
Gel I Nun To Ox
Gel I No On Tux
Gel I No Nut Ox
Gel In Unto Ox
Gel Onion Tux
Gel Nixon Out
Gel Ion No Tux
Gel Ion On Tux
Gel Toxin Uno
Gel Unix Toon
Gel It Noun Ox
Leg In Unto Ox
Leg Onion Tux
Leg Nixon Out
Leg Unix Toon
Gluten I No Ox
Lunge Into Ox
Glue Nixon To
Glue Toxin On
Gone Until Ox
Gone Unlit Ox
Ego Nil On Tux
Ego In Lunt Ox
...and the message is clear: if you're using AOL/TW, now would be a good time to find another ISP.
Build stuff. Stuff that walks, stuff that rolls, whatever.
Peanut linux is a small distro. It's pretty cool, you download a think a 150MB .bz2 file which contains the basics. It doesn't have the features of Gentoo it's just linux.
The leadin says that Gentoo eliminates all that RPM dependency hell. I agree, that's how most newcomers to the RPM scheme see it. A lack of higher tools and a lack of understanding has left many a new RPM user crying in frustration.
I haven't used Gentoo yet, and it may be the greatest thing since sliced bread. In the interests of helping newcomers who try RPM-based distros, however, a couple of points...
RPM is a package format, and rpm is the low-level tool that deals with those files. If you use rpm directly, you'll have to deal with the deluge of interconnecting dependencies yourself. However, it was not designed to be the sole front-line tool, it's the workhorse.
Unlike the Debian strains which all adopted the apt-get tool, each RPM-based distro has gone their own way with dependency management. Debian doesn't seem to focus so much on a distinction between dependency management and package management.
This dependency management is typically the commercialized aspect of the commercialized distro market: pay a value-added subscription fee for the ease of using a simplified network based package update/installer as a service, as well as some preferential bandwidth considerations. Faster downloads, push-down email notices, scheduled automatic installations, and other value-added services are attractive to corporate and casual users.
Service tools like up2date, redcarpet, and the like are the intended front-ends that use the rpm mechanisms to seek, download, validate, and install packages.
Much of the problem with package systems, rpm or deb, lies in the unorganized and untested packages produced haphazardly by small project folks, and the ad-hoc installations by casual users. The end users try rpm directly, or the weak gui equivalents, and at the first sign of dependency problems, they start using --nodeps or --force. Paraphrasing Asimov, "--force is the last refuge of the incompetent." The surest way to bollox an RPM machine is to --force a few packages or remove them with --nodeps, leaving a patchwork of unsatisfied dependencies. The surest way for a package maintainer to encourage such destruction is to blindly make packages that depend on too much, or too little.
Package management needs to grow up, and recognize the experimenter's needs: add tools at whim, try it a while, and remove it.
One: If you're not an expert, and want to play with a package for a bit, see if one is produced by your distribution first. Failing that, then see if someone's made a package intended for your version of your distribution. Unless you're going to spend the time reading the source code, it's usually a waste of time and energy to rebuild a package, and it'll be less compatible with your distro anyway.
Two: If you manage a package, and your program can use X or libaudio or whatever but doesn't absolutely require it, then consider making two packages or making your program smart enough to use what's present at runtime, rather than blindly depend on it being present at installation time.
Three: The key to user-interface design is that the interface needs to understand the user. Not the other way around. Focus on the needs of the expected types of user: neophyte through master. If you're new, --help and RTFM aren't enough. Don't just teach the user to fulfill the tool's needs, teach your tool to anticipate the user's goals. Don't just teach people to use RPM directly, but instead provide smooth tools that use RPM behind-the-scenes.
This has gotten longer than I expected; I'd appreciate constructive replies.
[
Perhaps this is beyond the scope of this article, but if you want a lot of things that FreeBSD has, such as the ports system... why not use FreeBSD?
Speed, speed, speed 0 just like the author stated
the docs are excellent - I spent a half day figureing out how to st up the nvidia drivers and x, just becasue I didn't read the docs. I finally read the desktop guide, and it had everything I needed.
Maturity - I've also installed sorcerer (the latest release) and while I like it I think gentoio is more mature. No glitches during the install - sorcerer has some kde hangups. No slight to sorcerer, I just think gentoo has had more time to work out the bugs
Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)
Portage figures out dependendies quite nicely, so take advantage of it. Pick a couple high level apps that you know you will use, and work on those first. For instance, I frequently do
emerge evolution galeon lynx nessus xmms
and it gets x, gnome, and all the bells and whistles that I need to run on my system, based on the USE variable set in my make.conf. Do the above and you can leave it go while you go to work or sleep and be assured that things went nicely.
I'll also mention that if you do
emerge evolution; emerge galeon;
It will have the advantage of compiling in series, and thus maybe catching some things that you don't have to redo later, but the disadvantage of failing multiple times on something that does not have a perfect build script, and you can't track down what caused it. I do it with
emerge evolution galeon
because you can see what died easier (the last thing on the screen.
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
oh shut up you wank.
go to efnet:#xian and tell them of your pains. at least he had something interesting, although quite offtopic to say.
your jesus is another mans xebu. chew on that hypocrites.
On the same dungeon level. That's 3 corpses on the same level. I can't wait til next time I pass by there so I can stock up on all of the cursed spellbooks, rings, and wands.
does that means
... Gentoo will download the entire ftp.mozilla.org/pub/sources
... and compile it???
God help us.
auto-apt run ./configure
./configure file probes for, and will install the packages that contains them (makes it easier than hunting for libraries, or you are uncertain of the deb name, etc.)
monitors what files the
really quite spiffy.
http://qref.sourceforge.net/quick/index.en.html
Needs to be listed more clearly, is an awesome reference, took me a while to find it through their page. (Also needs more people to contribute, since I believe it is just one guys experience)
Most linux distributions are to be compared to Windows NT/2K Pro/XP Pro installations. Those OSes are a little more difficult than Windows 98. While there is a lot of clicking next, you will have to type a few things in like the hostname and such. It's still a lot easier than installing linux used to be, and Mandrake actually autodetected all of my hardware correctly so there was no time wasted with that.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
... and I highly recommend it. It's slick, it's fast and it's easy to keep your system up to date. The install process seems complicated because it's all command line, but it's really quite easy and gives you a good feeling for your system.
This isn't exactly what happens.
Warning: ebuild spoiler follows
In conclusion, I'm sorry, but there will be no Gentoo Effect.
Kain
Debian Home go to installion instructions > Manual for intel x86 Installing Debian chapter 5 has what you want: Methods for Installing Debian ;)
Discettes
or go back to debian home > Download with ftp
or ...
there are thousand ways to get what you want you do not need to be a debian developper to find this :)
In it's previous life, Gentoo was known as Enoch Linux. Enoch was something of an abortive mother, but it's offspring, ebuild, has been an amazingly useful enabling technology for getting a distro off the ground.
Kain
Since I've hung out with several EF'ers, including one of the late Judi Bari's best friends (what a bunch of flakes), I know that the quote isn't, Earth First - We'll strip mine the other planets later..
It's on bumperstickers around here, and it goes like this... Earth First - We'll log the other planets later.
Just thought you would like to know...
I would, but I'm no artist. Perhaps a scaled down version from the gentoo site?
Kudos to the Gentoo!
Eddy.WriteLinux.Com
Well,
I'm one of those users that uses quite a lot of different distro's, and who alway wants to be on the 'edge'. So one day I came across Gentoo and it's cousing Sorcerer.
Of course, I had to try them both...
And what do I think about them?
I'll say this: Sorcerer's still running mighty fine on my laptop, but I've thrown gentoo off of my desktop machine. I've never gotten Gentoo to run 100% ok as a desktop system with the Gnome desktop.
And I do think that gentoo's installation procedure should be simpler. It might be targeted at an experienced linux user, but I do like some automation. Also a nice menu system for the portage tree would be nice.
Too bad Sorcerer's going down because of politics... (prove me wrong, Kyle!)
So here's some obligatory Gentoo links for you zoologoy freaks:
Seriously though, Gentoo Linux sounds really cool. I'm a die-hard Debian guy (especially with Woody going stable in May)... but I plan on giving Gentoo a try this week. And I wish the best to the developers.-- null
The excitement never ends... Something's wrong with the database. We're checking all the tables right now, and praying that that finds something wrong. If not, well, I'm out of ideas. In any case, we'll be back up soon. Whether back to normal speed or not, I don't know. --R
Sorry, but we seem to be having some trouble with the mod_perl server. Usually this just means that we've had to take it down for a moment to update something, or to lighten a heavy server load. Wait a minute or two, and reload. If this problem persists for longer than a few minutes, please email help@kuro5hin.org and let us know.
Suck it, scoop fans! K5 is toast! slash ro0lz!! w00h00!!!!!
I was one of the first few hundred users on K5 and I left ages ago. It had potential but the navel-gazing there is ten times worse than slashdot - which is unbeleivable. At least at /., 90% of the discussion isn't a meta-discussion about the discussion. Or a discussion about the discussion that is going on about the discussion of the topic.
Or, you could use a distro that provides precompiled binary packages of GCC, like just about every other distro. Linux is about choices; if you don't like how your distro works, change it yourself or get another distro.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
This easy to use is a trojan condom. Linux
is dying and everyone should switch over to
the more stable and technically superior FreeBSD,
which runs native Linux binaries better---faster
and more stably---than any not-invented-here Linux
kernel.
Offtopic:
The other day when Kde 3.0 was released I was over at #kde-users and I run redhat. I ran into this geek chick who was looking for a fast mirror to get kde. She was running gentoo linux and told me about it. She helped me with stuff getting kde running on redhat. When she mentioned about compiling from source immediately I had we call the small winky feeling.
Goatse redirect !
I'm a windows boy myself, installed Mandrake and am very happy.
Tried other distributions in years past but could never get enough stuff working correctly to tear me away from windows.
Mandrake installation went great. I even did the custom setup options and it was still easy.
My biggest nit pick is that I wish Portage had a better way of tracking changes between package versions. Sometimes the only difference between two versions is a few lines of a Gentoo-supplied script or config file. When you upgrade the package it forces you you to recompile the whole thing, even though the changes didn't do anything that would have affected compilation.
I don't know if there's a good Gentoo specific answer to your question, but you could speed up the n+1th c/c++ compile if you used ccache to compile your software. See ccache.samba.org.
ccache and its predecessor, compilercache, save me large quantities of time compiling things for work and play.
This is one thing I've always been curious about. What "really" are the best gcc CFLAGS for i586, i686, AMD K6-2, etc?
considering they are just using regular gcc and not pgcc like Mandrake, what settings should be used? is there a site someware that lists these settings?
Thanks.
-- DuckWing
aren't you going to tell us what it is?
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
...it will probably be even better when AMD Hammer gets out. The best way to squeeze some performance out of it will be to compile for that specific architecture (of course, the real gains can only come when people start programming specifically with 64-bit in mind, but that is a while off).
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
Windows isn't easy to install. That's why it comes preinstalled on new computers.
--Shoeboy
It took me five hours to get the base Gentoo installed on my PIII with 128 megs of ram.
Hmmm, much quicker than Windows. I did a WinME install last month. It took me most of a Saturday. Reboot. Click "yes". Reboot. Click "yes". Reboot. Install driver. Reboot. Reinstall driver. Reboot. ad infinitum.
I haven't used Gentoo yet, but I can install FreeBSD, including sources, in about seven minutes. Add another five minutes in if I also install XFree86, KDE, Xmms, Mozilla, Linux support, etc.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I got a fucking malloc() error installing emacs! Who the fuck has time to wade through this crap when I have programs to write and work to get done?
Linux is a piece of shit OS for communist euro-trash wannabes.
In my case I DO have the bandwidth, but I DON'T have a CD-Burner. So I guess I have to wait until they offer a CD. According to their website they plan to do so. But as I understand it, one of Gentoo's strengths is up-to-date software. You can't really get that from a CD with any distro.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Hmmm, I know I shouldn't be feeding the trolls, but, I've never had such a problem with Linux. I'd make some comment about why you'd be installing Emacs, but whatever floats your boat.
When I need to ping a reliable site I ping Google. I've never experienced downtime with them. k5 OTOH...
i have a rather decrepid linux box.. 66 mhz 16 megs of ram.. although i did manage to get a 515 and a 630 meg hard drive into it.. i currently have slackware 7.1 on it. would i have enough disk space to put all the packages on one partition (the one with slackware) and do an install on to my second hard drive. In short would i have the space to have LFS source unpacked on my first hard drive
...is its attention to detail and aesthetics and its general sexiness (the word I was going to use slipped my mind -- I'm an eloquent speaker, trust me).
;-). Slack and LFS don't have decent package management/upgrading systems. Ever notice how slack packages show full version numbers in pkgtool ONLY for packages that were installed during setup, and not the ones you add later? And to add to that, NONE of the distros mentioned have good looking Redhat style init scripts that have the [OK] and the [Failed] signals to warn you how poorly you set up the system.
.bashrc to add colour to your ls's. It makes everything setup sexily across your system. Every package that doesnt follow the system is setup under opt. It even thinks about what to do AFTER you get linux installed1 In debian you could always upgrade to SID and try to fix bugs in your packages. In LFS, you could always try to reinstall, and try to remember without looking all the urls for downloading all the patchfixes for all the packages, and race friends to see who can finish first. Slack doesn't have anything for that -- but never fear, gentoo does. After you setup the system, you can always try to figure out why you cant install vmware, or why certain packages are there in the portage tree but dont seem to install.
After evolving from Mandrake and other n3wb distros, the typical linux user has the choice between Slackware, Debian, and LFS style distros. All of them are great for proclaiming one's leetness. Just being able to go through the installation process of any of the aforementioned is a testament to manliness even penis length cannot surmount.
But what to do after that? Sure you got a badassed mofo distro, but it looks like shit! LFS and Slack use the horrid BSD style init-scripts (don't flame me...just from my experience from atleast a few years back, not that slack's updated versions since then
Gentoo has all that and more. By default, it sets up color terminals for all users. No more fidgeting with
And you can do it all with full colour ls listings. And that's enough rambling and bitching for me today.
I've been using Gentoo Linux, and I love it.
:)
Actually, I thought about using some *BSD, but after a while I decided that I preferred to support the GPL over the BSD license. Not that I'm saying that other people should use one over the other, and I bet that a lot of people don't even care about which license they use. But I'm just a little fanatical (read: "stupid") about this. I use gnome over kde for the same reason.
Anyways, it's your fault for asking why!
I have to admit as a BSD user I am finding this all very humorous. Listening to these posts about compiling ports and how much time it takes to compile. Welcome to the wonderful world of ports! I tell you they are worth their weight in gold!
Enjoy!
One of my greatest pet peaves about linux is shoving all the programs in /usr/bin and libraries in /usr/lib
using the portage sytem can I remove the nightmare of shoving all programs in /usr/bin etc.
for example,
system programs in /usr
ie. /usr/gnome /usr/kde /usr/X11
most other (user-land) programs in /usr/local
ie. /usr/local/emacs21 /usr/local/gcc /usr/local/m ozillaetc..
etc, finally is it possible to compile using gcc 3 (perferable 3.1 when/if it comes out later this month)
as soon as you get gentoo installed especially if you install X + gnome or kde and make a backup of the entire hd after you get it tweeked the way you want it.
building X and kde is no fun at all. it takes forever.
is it just me or does gentoo not use objprelink when building kde?
why not just post a link to http://www.gentoo.org/doc/build.html
it says everything you did and more.
i hate when people rewrite things to sound like they know things.
other than that Gentoo all the way!!
If you were to switch to FreeBSD, would you still be using Quicktime to play your media files? If so, then more power to you. I know that there is a Free Software reimplementation of Quicktime available... off the top of my head I don't recall how portable it is, and how useful it currently is (because of the many proprietary codecs usually used in QuickTime documents).
Why are you commited to FreeBSD? May I recommend You look into NetBSD, which you may find better suited to your non-IA32 hardware. Perhaps you will even find NetBSD a better system than FreeBSD after spending some time with it. If you don't care for pkgsrc, and prefer "ports", then maybe OpenBSD would be more to your liking. Either one is worth a try; as your setup isn't likely SMP, I cannot imagine that FreeBSD is any better than NetBSD. What makes FreeBSD better than NetBSD? (Seriously. While FreeBSD has the largest ports tree, what is actually missing from NetBSD? Do you know that NetBSD runs FreeBSD binaries? Or is there some technical reason that FreeBSD is superior?)
Of course, if you don't do any BSD development, there is not much reason to leave Mac OS X behind, you gain alot with that proprietary bloat. You can always run Darwin without the OS X GUI much like you would Lites BSD over MACH, not much different in practice from any other 4.3BSD derived OS.
Simplest of all, what would you use to play your media under FreeBSD? I imagine that you wouldn't use QuickTime, but some Open Source media player. Simply use that player under Mac OS X. The best Mac OS X speed tricks are to use the latest version, as I'm sure you are aware. If OS X is still lagging with your OSI player, then try Darwin before ditching your setup altogether. Also, just out of diagnostic curiosity, what filesystem are you using, and have you tried playing your files under Mac OS 9?
If you are commited to blowing away Mac OS, have you considered Linux? Perhaps Gentoo isn't available, but How about Debian Linux? I don't imagine that debian is too hardcore if you were serious about FreeBSD, but YellowDog Linux is supposed to be fairly easy to use, and Mandrake is available too. Like Mandrake, LinuxPPC is fairly RedHat flavored, and SuSE is available for if you swing that way. But if you are really hardcore, you could bring this thread back on topic and hack Gentoo onto PPC. I notice that PPC patches were submitted to Gentoo.
You ought to try a different distribution - Redhat or Caldera maybe - they all have very easy-to-use graphical installation programs - just as easy to use as Windows, really.
:-P)
Personally I prefer Windows over Linux, but the distribution of Linux I do use is 'ZipSlack' - it's a Slackware distribution packaged in a 32Mb zip file - just uncompress onto a FAT partition and boot into dos. Excecute the Linux.bat file. Presto! No need to set aside a partition or anything. I have it running on an old 486 laptop. (No X-Windows, though. You'd have to install that yourself
># ebuild will try do download required source from mirrors in GENTOO_MIRROR
I was asking about... downloading from
ftp://mirror.mozilla.org/pub/sources
and COMPILING it, which would take 15 weeks on my pentium III.
Ditto for X,KDE...
You missed the point?
How difficult would it be to have an ISO with an up-to-date portage tree inc sources (put together daily?) so that people without an awesome inet connection can grab and burn a copy somewhere else to take home?
The majority of people do not have broadband access, you are eliminating a massive pool of users by not considering their needs.
Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary