Apache 2.0 Goes Gold!

The Apache Software Foundation's Apache HTTP Server, version 2.0.35, has now been released for General Availability. You can find the official announcement, and download the server, from their website. Be sure to try a mirror first. Congratulations to the HTTP Server Project for getting the final release out. If you are wondering about it being usable in a production environment, you should poke around Slashdot's servers and see if you are surprised (now if only mod_perl was finished we could move more of our servers over to using the new release).

The HTTP Server Project is now recommending this release for use on production websites. 2.0.35 is now considered their best release and should be used in preference to all older versions (including the 1.3 series). A few of the new features are:

• higher performance over 1.3
• multiple operational models: threaded, hybrid multi-processes and multi-threaded
• specific request processing for Windows, Netware, BeOS, and OS/2
• integrated SSL and WebDAV support
• improved HTTP proxy support
• I/O layering and filtering

Comments

Good news!

[quantaman]

Now www.wehavethewayout.com can upgrade back to a real server now!

Re:Good news!

[elmegil]

You forgot the word "insecure".

Re:Good news!

[cpeterso]

Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0


This only PROVES that Microsoft has successfully ported IIS to FreeBSD!! Microsoft's new Rotor runtime for FreeBSD is already paying off handsomely, allowing them to finally ditch NT.. ;)

Re:Good news!

[Basje]

I still like that picture. If you look closely, you can see that the light is coming from inside the maze. So you may leave the maze by using windows, but apparently you'll be stumbing in the dark.

Re:Good news!

[Jouster]

Server www.wehavethewayout.com (192.61.1.15)tested negative for trivial vulnerabilities that are OS-specific.

Server tested negative for non-trivial vulnerabilities that are OS-specific.

nmap output:

[root@maria /root]# nmap -O www.wehavethewayout.com -v -v

Starting nmap V. 2.53 by fyodor@insecure.org ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ )
No tcp,udp, or ICMP scantype specified, assuming vanilla tcp connect() scan. Use -sP if you really don't want to portscan (and just want to see what hosts are up).
Host www.wehavethewayout.com (192.61.1.15) appears to be up ... good.
Initiating TCP connect() scan against www.wehavethewayout.com (192.61.1.15)
Adding TCP port 80 (state open).
The TCP connect scan took 655 seconds to scan 1523 ports.
For OSScan assuming that port 80 is open and port 30836 is closed and neither are firewalled
For OSScan assuming that port 80 is open and port 31259 is closed and neither are firewalled
For OSScan assuming that port 80 is open and port 39772 is closed and neither are firewalled
Interesting ports on www.wehavethewayout.com (192.61.1.15):
(The 1522 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: filtered)
Port State Service
80/tcp open http

TCP Sequence Prediction: Class=random positive increments
Difficulty=12042 (Worthy challenge)

Sequence numbers: 82181185 82194841 821AAEC1 821BB8B4 821CAAE6 821E1005
No OS matches for host (If you know what OS is running on it, see http://www.insecure.org/cgi-bin/nmap-submit.cgi).
TCP/IP fingerprint:
TSeq(Class=RI%gcd=1%SI=32F9)
TSeq(C lass=RI%gcd=1%SI=2083)
TSeq(Class=RI%gcd=1%SI=2F0 A)
T1(Resp=Y%DF=Y%W=402E%ACK=S++%Flags=AS%Ops=MNW NNT)
T2(Resp=N)
T3(Resp=N)
T4(Resp=Y%DF=Y%W=0%A CK=O%Flags=R%Ops=)
T5(Resp=N)
T6(Resp=N)
T7(Res p=N)
PU(Resp=N)

Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 677 seconds

CSV output of traceroute:

18,157.130.99.246,528ms,unisys-70-gw.customer.ALTE R.NET
19,192.61.1.15,474ms,www.wehavethewayout.co m

Conclusion: Machine cannot be positively identified. Feel free to extract information from the fingerprint, if you can.

Jouster

Work with OSX?

[ruiner13]

Has anybody gotten this release or any of the earlier 2.X releases to install on OSX? Just would like to know before i try to install it.

Thanks!

Re:Work with OSX?

[cliffwoolley]

Yep, it works fine!

Re:Work with OSX?

[doooras]

Just use VirtualPC with a Linux OS Pack.

unless, of course, you want it to run at a usable speed...

Re:Work with OSX?

[MaxVlast]

Why the heck would you do that?

Well..

[smaug195]

It's pretty clear why this is from the from the hell-freezes-over-news-at-5 dept. All those pigs make quite a bit of cold air.

Re:Well..

[(startx)]

In other news, 3d realm said duke nukem forever will be out any day now, as did the makers of CTA3 for the PC......

now, time to go back to reality

The Pipe of Death

[James_G]

*) Remove all signals from the worker MPM's child process. Instead, the parent uses the Pipe of Death for all communication with the child processes. [Ryan Bloom]

The Pipe of Death? Does this conjur up images of developers sitting around a room saying things like.. "Man.. pass the pipe of death.. I need a hit", followed by lots of giggling and an unbelievable craving for chocolate and/or chinese food?

No? Um, ok.. must be just me then..

Re:The Pipe of Death

[Jucius Maximus]

"The Pipe of Death? Does this conjur up images of developers sitting around a room saying things like.. "Man.. pass the pipe of death.. I need a hit", followed by lots of giggling and an unbelievable craving for chocolate and/or chinese food?"

I was thinking more along the lines of 'I will club you over the skull with the pipe of Death. It has +7 attack versus Trolls and +6 defence against Moderators.'

Re:The Pipe of Death

[LadyLucky]

No, you are correct. It does conjure up said images.

Chocolate cravings... mmm.... those flake ice cream cones are great for those little hunger pangs.

Hopefully however, the pipe of death will not actually conjure up any child processes. Im not quite at that stage in my life yet.

Re:The Pipe of Death

[Starscream]

Actually it sounds more like a new form of corporal punishment.

Be good Billy or I'll give you a talking to with the pipe of death.

Re:The Pipe of Death

[WWWWolf]

'I will club you over the skull with the pipe of Death. It has +7 attack versus Trolls and +6 defence against Moderators.'

Your Pipe of Death is no match for my Hoe of Destruction! =)

Re:The Pipe of Death

[Kingpin]

Check the comment for this guy:

http://httpd.apache.org/contributors/#kasichainu la

Quite funny :)

Re:The Pipe of Death

[Jucius Maximus]

"Your Pipe of Death is no match for my Hoe of Destruction! =)"

Ah yes, back in the day I was able to get this item in Ultima VII. The key to the shed can be found if you sift around in the garbage by Loch Lake. It is "inside" a fish's body (i.e. in the dead fish's "inventory".)

Re:The Pipe of Death

[angelo]

Even easier. Get a chunk of blackrock and The mage's wand from cove. You put the rock by the door then zap it from a safe distance.

Re:The Pipe of Death

[KlomDark]

So THAT'S where my pipe went! Come to think of it, it did come up missing right after he taught the Apache class in Omaha. Jeez, take him to lunch and he steals my pipe. :)

Not good Karma, Ryan: Remember my wife is half Apache, she can pull down some ancient Apache curse on you. :)

Playing it safe

[Torinaga-Sama]

Or maybe playing it lazy, I will wait a little while longer to upgrade. When I was younger I like being the first kid on my block to get the new toy. Now I am older and I don't even like going outside...

Re:Playing it safe

[Anonymous Coward]

Haste is always a good thing, but if you read what Apache said, they've been running it on their site for ages (5 months), along with every script kiddie, cracker, hacker, pipe smoker, sql stinker, checking it out since the ip address of the server was alive and kicking on the net; I think it just might be a tad stable...but who knows....nothing is perfect, not even gold. Oh, wrong, gold is a pure element isn't it.

Re:Playing it safe

[bofkentucky]

5 months, try 12/2000, that would be 16 Months by my book

Better performance?

[Cutriss]

higher performance over 1.3

Really? I guess we'll find out in just a few minutes exactly *how* much more performance 2.0 has over 1.3... :)

Re:Better performance?

[quantaman]

On that note this discussion seems be be shared between this this storyand this poll!, I don't know which one you origionally posted too but you have a comment in both!! (well at least until they fix the bug and then I'll by moderated into oblivion:)

Re:Better performance?

[CrimsonDeath]

The fact that the poll you mention is the 'article poll' for the article that you mentioned probably has something to do with it.

Just pointing out the obvious...

Re:Better performance?

[doooras]

looks like it has become the poll on the main page as well...

Re:Better performance?

[jellomizer]

Well I decided to give a quick speed test. This is not scienctific Data I bet there are flaws in my testing and it is NOT REAL WORLD APPS. But my Test gave the results that Apache 2 is about 13% faster then 1.3.

This is what I did. On a Sun Ultra 10 I installed Apache 1.3 and 2.0 (Latest of both and compiled them using the same compilers)
port 80 was Apache 2.0
port 8080 was Apache 1.3

Then I used Lynx -dump http://localhost:0080 > /dev/null

and recorded the time it would take to do 3000 connections

then I did the same but on port 8080

and recorded the time

it took 2.28 for apache 2
2.63 for apache 1.3

so 2.0 is roughly 13% faster.

This was testing 1 connection at a time not multable connections.

Re:Better performance?

[GreenHell]

As the article poll in all the current stories... (Apahce poll in a PS2 article? Sure, why not...)

Wonder if this ss an "Oops, it shouldn't be doing THAT" type of thing :)

Re:Better performance?

[cybermage]

port 80 was Apache 2.0
port 8080 was Apache 1.3


Want to test it under load? Just follow up with the URL. I'm sure many here will accomodate you.

Re:Better performance?

[Electrum]

A better test would be http_load, since it tests multiple connections in parallel. I don't know of a test client that does multiple connections and utilizes persistent connections, but that would be ideal for load testing. But, of course, Apache's is inherently limited to the number of connections it can handle, due to using a separate thread/process for each connection.

Re:Better performance?

[rasjani]

As a sidenote, apache (atleast 1.3) series ships with its own benchmarking tool called ab. So, while you where writing a shellscript to time the requests, you could have just written:

ab -n 3000 -w http://localhost:8080 ab -n 3000 -w http://localhost:80

Another sidenote, few issues back in the Linux Magazine was article about Apache 2.0 and it gave me a quite good impression what apache 2.0 is all about but it also left me with feeling that 2.0 is not performing as fast as 1.3 because of new modularity in pretty much every phase of the server processing the request it takes... Hell, article even said that with a little coding, you could turn apache 2.0 to working imap server!

Re:Better performance?

[Doomdark]

But, of course, Apache's is inherently limited to the number of connections it can handle, due to using a separate thread/process for each connection

Hmmh. I may be wrong but:

A few of the new features are: ... * multiple operational models: threaded, hybrid multi-processes and multi-threaded

Does this not indicate that this is not necessarily true any more? Plus, on some platforms limitation is pretty high, esp. for threads ('full' processes usually have lower limits).

Re:Better performance?

[cliffwoolley]

I wrote that article. :) [As I mentioned in another comment on this /. story, the article is now posted online, btw.] At the time I wrote the article, it's true that Apache 2.0 wasn't performing as well as 1.3. But I wrote it in like October. In the months since then, especially within just the last month since we added the bucket brigade freelists to avoid all the bazillion malloc/free calls and since much other performance tuning has been done by various members of the development team, 2.0 has started to really kick 1.3's butt. Have a look at this post to dev@apr.apache.org from Brian Pane on April 1, where he posted some side-by-side performance comparison numbers.

Re:Better performance?

[Electrum]

Either way, it takes a thread or a process for each connection. Even with dynamic content, most of your content is static (i.e. images). For static content, you need a non blocking server that runs in a single process to get the best performance. And the majority of the high traffic sites on the net (adult sites) have lots of images. Thus it makes sense to have a non blocking core, and only use threads or processes for things that are more difficult to do in a single process. Better yet, leave all that stuff out of the server entirely, and use an API designed to be high performance and non blocking friendly: FastCGI. But Apache can stay a toy, and those of us that need high performance will have to continue paying for a closed source, real web server: Zeus. The Apache developers can complain all they want about how it's too hard to do and isn't necessarily the best way, while continuing to ignore the best web server available. Oh, and where's my easy to use mass virtual hosting, good config file format and web configuration tool?

And if you think this is a troll, then go play with Zeus for a day, and you'll see why Apache is nothing more than a toy.

Re:Better performance?

[sparkz]

try:
lynx -dump http://server:port > /dev/null &
to run it it in parallel - and do try it from another box, not localhost, since the performance will be different (but tell you more about your OS with apache than apache itself, but I guess localhost implementations differ, too)

Re:Better performance?

[Snibor Eoj]

I guess we'll find out in just a few minutes exactly *how* much more performance 2.0 has over 1.3.

0.7.

Re:Better performance?

[Doomdark]

Um, I take it you replied to wrong post? Or if not, you didn't explain in any way or form whether Apache's hybrid perhaps might improve scalability. Where did you get the idea I have something against Zeus, or touting Apache as the ultimate killer production server?

If you want to rant in "Apache is a toy" way, go troll with someone else. I wasn't making statements about Apache's usability, but merely questioning the assumption of "Apache is inherently limited by ...". And your post was pretty devoid of any counter arguments as well.

PHP not there yet

[augustz]

Upgrades are a little early unless PHP starts compiling in, especially statically. (A la mod_php without DSO). They're getting close, php 4.2.0 should work I suspect, whenever it or any other previewish release comes out.

Also, be nice to get some good benchmark numbers. Speed / SSL / Dynamic Content seem to be things just about everyone relies on, and it'd be great to have a nice case to move from 1.3. I know the Apache team has made a lot of progress on this, be great to see it validated.

Bravo all around of course.

- August

Re:PHP not there yet

[Kwikymart]

Yes, but there are some of us that like to use STABLE code. It's not really php's fault though. *sigh* this is probably a useless argument, however, because of the fact that this is fundamentally a x.0.0 release (even though its really 2.0.35). I am not going to run it till it has spent some time in the field (or I may set it up on an extra non-production machine). Damn, php rules for small applications.

Re:PHP not there yet

[drok]

>They're getting close, php 4.2.0 should work I suspect,
> whenever it or any other previewish release comes out.

php 4.2.0RC1 was released March 21st, RC2 April 4th, so they are there on the preview releases but on the web sites I don't see any mention of being Apache 2.0 capable.

-Robert

Re:PHP not there yet

[Perdo]

I couldn't tell if previewish was an actual word so I did a search on google for it.

previewish

Almost a googlewhack. But it's not a real word so it's a googlethud.

Re:PHP not there yet

[cliffwoolley]

This should be fixed in HEAD for PHP already as I understand it. These compile errors are a result of the bucket brigades freelist API changes that went in to 2.0.34. I've heard there are some residual problems with PHP HEAD, but those are being debugged as we speak.

Re:PHP not there yet

[Metrol]

I couldn't tell if previewish was an actual word so I did a search on google for it.

Now that this word has been mentioned all of 3 times now in this thread, it is now an official Internet term! Don't believe me? Follow that Google link once more. Now has 2 valid hits.

Re:PHP not there yet

[Perdo]

I saw it too... we were here for the making of the word "Previewish" .... what the hell does it mean? When something gets delivered to you that you were hoping to get to see.... noun? OK, I'll spread it... you can too... our missoin is to use it at least three times in coversation in the next week... Mission impossible music... We can hope for AYBABTU status.. but we may nedd something more catchy.

Watch Software Update

[TegSkywalker]

I bet Apple will have Apache 2.0 available thru their Software Update or whatever for the OSX Server.

They are usually pretty good with stuff like that.

Re:Watch Software Update

[diverman]

I hope that they release it for the updates for Standard OS X. I mean, it DOES ship with Apache.

Crossing those fingers. :)

-Alex

Re:Watch Software Update

[dadragon]

We'll see, but my money's on it being released with 10.1.4 (We're at 10.1.3 now)

Re:Watch Software Update

[Wyatt Earp]

I bet they come out with it for OS X Standard before the Server, since the updates usually come out for it about a week or two before Server.

I bet it breaks Tenon's iTools though, really bad.

The only thing I don't get are the people that bitch when Apple releases updates.

Not to long ago, you had to wait months for little things like fixed TCP/IP.

My money is...it'll be out by the 15th of April.

Re:Watch Software Update

[cpeterso]

I seriously doubt Apple would "slipstream" Apache 2.0 onto users' computers via Software Update. Apache 2.0 breaks backwards compatibility on many Apache modules and who know what else. Since Apache 2.0 is largely untested by the public, I bet Apple will wait for a few more updates and then include it later in Mac OS X 10.2.

Re:Watch Software Update

[Xochil]

Yes, they are pretty good with stuff like that....which is why it took them almost a month to incorporate OpenSSH 3.1p1 into Software Update.

Next time I need to install or upgade,

[Bender Unit 22]

I will install it next time I need to install a new server or upgrade one.
And if we get a rainy day I'd might also give it a shot.

I guess, What ever, never mind.

In the next Linux distribution

[mybecq]

I think I'll start running it when it comes bundled in the next release of my favourite distribution...
That way, it'll be nicely packaged and ready for my lazy installation skills.

It had to be someone

[tunah]

Given the readership of slashdot, there *had* to be *someone* who installed the old version recently. But I swear I just finished compiling this an hor ago!

Re:It had to be someone

[cos(0)]

Heh, about a week ago I downloaded and installed Apache 1.3.24, PHP 4.1.2 as a dynamic module, and SSL support.
Now I will have to upgrade.

Oy, vey.

love it

[BigBir3d]

the guarantee is awesome. it will take up disk space!

I'll poke...

[Perdo]

"you should poke around Slashdot's servers and see if you are surprised"

Slashdot is running

Apache/1.3.20 (unix)
mod_perl/1.25
mod_gzip/1.3.1.19.1a

I'll look around some more...

Re:I'll poke...

[Raetsel]

Poke some more, you quit too soon.

• GET /article.pl?sid=02/04/06/0216250 HTTP/1.1
• HTTP/1.1 200 OK
  Server: Apache/1.3.20 (Unix) mod_perl/1.25 mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a
  X-Powered-By: Slash 2.003000
  X-Fry: Where's Captain Bender? Off catastrophizing some other planet?

• GET /Slashdot/pc.gif?article,1018062768900 HTTP/1.1
• HTTP/1.1 200 OK
  Server: Apache/1.3.17 (Unix)

• GET /banner/cdig0001en.gif?1018062768915 HTTP/1.1
• HTTP/1.1 200 OK
  Server: Apache/2.0.35 (Unix)

Well, there's the first one at least. Looks like their banner ad server's on 2.0+. I don't feel like formatting the rest of the logfile, but there are a couple more in there.

Re:I'll poke...

[Perdo]

so doubleclick is running Apache/2.0.35 (Unix). I don't understand. Slashdot uses Doubleclick for banner serving and paypal for subscriptions. Can't they find some goodguys to put on their team? Seems like they could hire some staff and do this stuff in-house. Cut out the middle man. If joes's sunglass hut can handle credit card orders and serve their banners to other sites, Slashdot can do it too.

The only added value Slashdot would get from Doubleclick or Paypal is the ability to track users...

Let me say that again. Even though other options are available to them, they choose to use two of the most privacy invasive companies available.

"The Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) is charging that DoubleClick is violating a section of the law forbidding "unfair and deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce." EPIC's complaint centers on DoubleClick's "Abacus Online," a secret group of DoubleClick's clients for which the advertising company tracks Web surfers' habits using online data, such as IP addresses, with offline data such as names, postal addresses and catalog purchase histories."

"The Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) unveiled the campaign yesterday, calling for a stop to what it describes as DoubleClick's efforts to use its relationships with prominent Internet companies to track the online activities of millions of individuals and tie them to those individuals' offline activities."

"This is window dressing on their previous position -- which is that they're going to profile [Internet users] as much as they feel like, unless people try to opt out,"

Paypal has gotten quite a bit of bad press here on slashdot, but were chosen to handle Slashdot's subscriptions anyway.

here here here here

Why is Slashdot in bed with these slimeballs when they do not have to be?

Re:I'll poke...

[SirSlud]

> Seems like they could hire some staff and do this stuff in-house.

Nah, its must more cost effective to use ad networks; you can chain them together using redirects or rotate them. You basically have some flexibility if you are a large site, in terms of juggling multiple networks.

At any rate, building reporting systems for the immense data that comes from advertising is not trivial, especially considering the kind of criteria (unique users, frequency rate, etc) advertisers use to do media buys. And you need the reporting to sell your inventory effectively ...

Re:I'll poke...

[Perdo]

Building ad network databases is not trivial, but neither is developing and running slashcode and running slashdot. They can build in features that personalize my webpage, only accept unique IP addresses for each poll vote, handle the user pages of half a million users, do an admittedly poor job of enableing a site search and accept loads that are able to crash every other site on the net (remember Slashdot is always slashdotted and shows few load affects). I'm sure they could build a database that tells them Perdo (me) has only clicked through to think geek and only purchased a caffine coffee mug when I got there.

Incedental to my reading slashdot, I have purchased "Pro" distros of Redhat and Mandrake for home and 3 cobalt servers for work. Slashdot itself is an advertisement for Linux. They can attempt to milk the ad cow dry but what they need to do instead of selling out to a company willing to violate my privacy, is stop posting cool stories about the companies that are actually benefiting the most from slashdot.

Redhat, pay up. Sun, pay up. Apple, pay up. Either that or loose your best press coverage in a community that has a hell of a lot of purchasing power. Companies will support the community provided by this forum or they will not be discussed, which based on the word of mouth nature of Linux, will kill those companies.

Sounds like extortion but it is simply the beneficiaries paying for service rendered. Send the mac addicts back to macslash. Support the forum or be excluded.

Re:I'll poke...

[shird]

HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:32:17 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.20 (Unix) mod_perl/1.25 mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a Cache-Control: private Pragma: private Connection: close Transfer-Encoding: chunked Content-Type: text/html

The error received while slashdot/doubleclick was changing over to Apache 2.0. Also while there seemed to be a problem logging in and posting comments. Did anyone else notice this?

Re:I'll poke...

[fanatic]

Paypal has gotten quite a bit of bad press here on slashdot, but were chosen to handle Slashdot's subscriptions anyway.

Why is Slashdot in bed with these slimeballs when they do not have to be?

Screw subscriptions. Screw banner ads. Use Galeon or Mozilla and turn off image downloads. (Or use lynx or w3m...). Because even if you get the payment service you like, Slashdot will still resort to it's shameless eyeball-whoring in stupid misleading article writeups, etc.

not just mod_perl needed

[RoscoeVill]

What about appropriate version of tomcat? I'm hoping that since there is real current dev on that at the moment, that it should work when I try later this weekend.... but all the jakarta doc says apache 1.3...

Any one try it yet?

Re:not just mod_perl needed

[dcsmith77]

There are apache2 module binaries in the tomcat4 directory, at least for mod_jk which i prefer on principle

I'll use it when Debian packages it.

[bozoman42]

Yada, yada. Don't complain about options. Yada, yada. Well, I'll use it when Debian packages it.

Re:I'll use it when Debian packages it.

[jeboyer]

Looks like a Debian developer is already on top of it--see the announcement in the debian-apache mailing list.

They're not "official" yet, but here you go.

Re:I'll use it when Debian packages it.

[Slash Veteran]

me too. I don't need freshmeat-type announcements (though I don't mind them, guys). But Debian is my preferred delivery system.

If you're not using Debian, you're wasting your time -- literally.

Re:I'll use it when Debian packages it.

[lukesky]

I'll use it when it hits the testing distibution of Debian

Changelog

[cscx]

Example of open source at its best:

Changes since 2.0.32-beta:

*) connection.c: changed ++j to j++ in an attempt to fix a bug in mod_rewrite [Brian Pane]

*) connection.c: changed ++i to ++j in honor of myself [Joe Orton]

*) connection.c: fuck you guys, ++i is better [Justin Erenkrantz]

*) connection.c: changed i += 1 to i++ for better performance [Graham Leggett]

*) connection.c: changed i = i + 1 to i += 1 [Ian Holsman]

[...]

Re:Changelog

[benedict]

I hope Mr. Leggett wasn't serious.

Re:Changelog

[cpeterso]

this explains it. No wonder Apache was stuck on version 1 for so long!! ;)

Re:Changelog

[Lictor]

Not to spoil it for you or anything, but you really should have at least a *marginal* understanding of optimizing compilers before you go pretending to be an expert.

I don't mean to be nasty here, but NOTHING offends me more than an arrogant ignorant person. We all make mistakes, and thats cool, but when you jump down someone elses back with condescending remarks you better be sure that you know what you're talking about.

Without further ado, here are two C programs:

add.c:
main(){ int i; i = 0;i++;}

add2.c:
main(){int i;i = 0;i+=1;}

Now, we compile them using the -S option on gcc (in my case on a SPARC running Solaris, but I'd wager you'd get similar results on just about any supported architecture). So again, we do a:

% gcc -S add.c
% gcc -S add2.c

(I tried to post the .s files here, but our old friend the lameness filter clobbered them)

Now, do a 'diff' on 'em. Draw your own conclusions.

Re:Changelog

[Fweeky]

> % gcc -S add.c
> % gcc -S add2.c

Let's try gcc -O -S:

-% diff add1.s add2.s
1c1
< .file "add1.c"
---
> .file "add2.c"

*cough*

Re:Changelog

[Fweeky]

Actually it's the same without -O. I suck, whatever. Maybe you should have posted the diffs so we could actually see what you were trying to say :P

Re:Changelog

[Permission Denied]

Dude, your the one that's being arrogant and condescending. If the return value of the increment is thrown away (as in your examples) then they are syntactically equivalent. Somewhere gcc is building a parse tree and the two statements will have a similar role in the parse tree. It would really surprise me if the two files are different. NB this has nothing to do with optimization. Try the undocumented '-dr' gcc flag which will dump out an rtl listing of your code (eg, this is how the program looks after parsing). They should be equivalent.

Re:Changelog

[whovian]

Yes, the *diffs* are the same, but the actual code is different, with and without -O.

Re:Changelog

[Lictor]

First off, you're right, I was being a jerk, and I feel badly about that. My apologies.

Now, about the parse tree... I would agree that they are performing the same function, but given that gcc almost certainly parses its input with an LR(n)-parser, I'm going to go out an a limb and say that the trees for i+=1, i=i+1, i++ are different.

If you have differently structured input, and an (almost) context-free grammar to parse it... you'd better get different trees for different structures.

I also disagree that it has 'nothing to do with optimization'. If you just spat out assembly code from the tree, you *should* notice a difference in i=i+1, i++. If you do any type of basic optimization (even simple peephole optimization would catch this in the IR), then you'll end up with equal output.

I also respectfully disagree that RTL is a faithful reproduction of the original parse tree. From the 'Reading RTL' section of the gcc docs:

"Correct RTL for a given program is very dependent on the particular target machine. And the RTL does not contain all the information about the program."

Since an LR(1) parse tree of a program should look the same independant of the underlying architecture , I'm going to make the bold assumption that some optimizations take place at the RTL level. This seems very reasonable and is the case in other compilers I've worked with, but since I've never specifically worked with gcc, I'm not 100% sure.

I would imagine there is a way to get gcc to print out the parse tree, rather than the IR, but not being that familiar with it, I wouldn't know what that was. You could always grab the BNF spec for the C grammar and code it up in Bison ;)

Re:Changelog

[realdpk]

Call me ignorant or whatever, where is the ChangeLog for connection.c? I'm not able to find it in my tarball or on their site (maybe not looked close enough?)

Apache Goes Gold

[totallygeek]

Goes gold?

When did they sell 100,000 copies?

Re:Apache Goes Gold

[doooras]

a while ago.

Re:Apache Goes Gold

[morgajel]

-1 offtopic +1 interesting
this may seem offtopic, but did anyone notice from the link provided by this parent comment that apache gained 2.59% in one month? microsoft lost .98%
do you think this is because of the recent recession, the new version of apache being expected, or the recent security problems in the last year with IIS?

just food for thought.

Re:Apache Goes Gold

[NullAndVoid]

Usually these sudden jumps and drops are due to some big ISP switching, taking a few zillion virtual domains with them. Apparently Apache lost 3% to IIS last month due to one of these.

I'll run it when...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll run it when it's included in Debian stable. So that would be, what? Another couple of years?

Re:I'll run it when...

[Whyzzi]

Add a few more years after it hits Debian and I'll find in OpenBSD.

Mirror ? Someone willing to mirror it ?

[x-empt]

The official mirrors haven't rsync'd yet. Anyone mind posting a mirror of the sources for this sucker ?

Configuration, setup?

[Phroggy]

What do I need to know about upgrading from 1.3 to 2.0? What's different in the configuration? Any changes in the way the files are laid out by default? Will my existing httpd.conf work without modification? Would that be a stupid thing to try?

I thought I heard somewhere that 2.0 might make it possible to have PHP scripts with per-user permissions, like you can get CGI scripts to do if you use suEXEC to setuid to the appropriate user before executing. This is important for servers with multiple users running their own web sites; even if all your users are trusted not to mess with each other's stuff you can run into icky situations where a PHP script writes to a file that the user then doesn't have FTP access to (so they have to write another PHP script to access it). Did I hear correctly? If so, what's involved in configuring it? If not, does anyone have any workarounds?

Re:Configuration, setup?

[cliffwoolley]

Check out my Linux Magazine article from January, which was just posted online recently.</shameless plug>

The short answer to your question: while yes, you can probably get your 1.3 config to work without *too* many changes, you should spend a bit more time exploring Apache 2.0, or you'll miss out on a lot of the benefits.

The configuration is totally different; it uses GNU autoconf now instead of the home-grown APACI system. The two have many similarities, but you should peruse all of the

./configure --help

options carefully.

The perchild MPM (which provides the configurable userid per Apache child process that you mention) is possibly not yet working; it's still classified as experimental. But we'll probably be getting that cleaned up within another release or two.

april wil be the best month of the year

[tinomeinen]

KDE 3.0, Apache 2.0, Mozilla 1.0, myownsillyproject 0.0

comments split?

[(startx)]

It appears as if the comments for the story and the poll are the same comments. wierd. anyway, It seems I'm not the only one who has rooted coybow neal's box...

What about LDAP support?

[stonebeat.org]

Apache 2 is great. I have been testing/playing with it for about 2 years now. I luv the thread/process model. and I luv the built SSL and DAV support. However I would have really loved it, if it had built-in LDAP auth module. When I started testing it initially, there were talks of including the module in the source tree. But they dropped the idea. I have tested several previous releases of Apache 2 and none of them had support for LDAP, nor have I figured out a way yet to compile LDAP auth module into Apache 2 as of yet. Any ideas/thoughts?

Re:What about LDAP support?

[cliffwoolley]

LDAP support was moved to a subproject of httpd. You can checkout the httpd-ldap tree from anonymous CVS if you like. No guarantees on whether it works at the moment, as I haven't tried it. Guess I should do that sometime soon. ;)

Re:What about LDAP support?

[stonebeat.org]

I have already tried the httpd-ldap. it doesn't work :(

I'll run Apache 2.0

[Saint Aardvark]

when its version number is the same as my Linux 7.2.

Re:I'll run Apache 2.0

[Anonymous Coward]

You're still using Linux 7.2? You should switch to the new AOL 8.0, it's better.

Re:I'll run Apache 2.0

[archen]

emacs, need I say more?

Re:I'll run Apache 2.0

[Citizen of Earth]

when it comes packaged with my favorite distro.

Re:I'll run Apache 2.0

[Vegeta99]

Troll? I'm sorry, but that was meant to be funny. And true, nonetheless, there's no 2.0 Win32 binaries.

Apache went gold a long time ago

[totallygeek]

Yeah, Apache is the best. But, they haven't sold anything. I am very excited about this, and will have the whole weekend to install and play with it.

Re:Apache went gold a long time ago

[slashdoter]

I'm not sure if you where joking but thats not what they where saying

a program goes gold if it has been finished and a master "gold" cd is made to make copied of, so that more copies can be made and sold. going gold is just saying that they think thier finished.

I guess you knew that but I thought it should be said for anyone that doesn't

Re:Apache went gold a long time ago

[totallygeek]

I'm not sure if you where joking but thats not what they where saying

It was a long way to go for the +1 funny moderation. I didn't know all that about going gold, but I understood what was meant. I am very much ready to check out the new Apache.

Re:Apache went gold a long time ago

[slashdoter]

It was a long way to go for the +1 funny moderation.

no distance is too great for a "+1 funny", I'm usually out of breath and my fingers in pain by the time I get there.

And StarOffice 1.0

[Micah]

:-)

And GNOME 2? Not sure on that one.

You know, it figures.

[mstyne]

I just installed the latest 1.3 version of Apache, mod_perl and mod_php (an ugly experience) two nights ago. Maybe if I got a burrito or something for upgrading I'd do it again. Guess it's just bad luck on my part :(

DOH. I mean OpenOffice 1.0

[Micah]

Should have used preview. Be gentle, moderators!

Journalistic ethics in action... ;-)

[stienman]

Of course, when it's something Slashdot depends on, they not only wait for the official announcement, they wait until they've downloaded it before printing it!

:-D

-Adam

The LEAD Pipe of Death

[Anonymous Coward]

"You want that I should whack 'em, boss?"

'Nuff said.

what if they didnt switch from freebsd?

[HanzoSan]

What if they only set it up to display as if they switched?

It would appear...

[Anonymous Coward]

That apache.org itself is still on 2.0.32

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off& mo de_w=on&site=apache.org

Re:It would appear...

[BreakWindows]

Not that interesting. Did you really expect them to just take the server down and switch at a time when people are flooding the site, or when they've been working on the code? Give them a few days...
oops, wait..make that a few hours

telnet www.apache.org 80
GET / HTTP/1.0

Apache/2.0.35 Server
;)

Re:It would appear...

[gregames]

Netcraft must be a little behind. We *always* test our code on apache.org before releasing. Try this: $ nc apache.org 80 HEAD / HTTP/1.1 host: apache.org HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 01:44:46 GMT Server: Apache/2.0.35 (Unix) Cache-Control: max-age=86400 Expires: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 01:44:46 GMT Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 7790 Content-Type: text/html

CONGRATS!

[Anthony Boyd]

Yeeeaah! Do you think this is big enough to win back some numbers for Apache? I noticed that when PHP 4 came out, it got a pretty big jump in numbers (early-mid 2000). Apache 2 seems like A Big Deal that might punch up the Apache stats.

too much spare time methinks

[rtscts]

If only the Linux kernel changelog was so detailed (it'd be bigger than the kernel itself)

Apache: *) connection.c: changed ++i to ++j in honor of myself [Joe Orton]

LinuxKernel: VM tweaks [read: ripped the arse out of the kernel and replaced it with someone else's]

Re:too much spare time methinks

[Anonymous Coward]

These days it is.

The bitkeeper versioning system the kernel guys (Linux & Marcelo) use does for them.

recent benchmarks?

[green pizza]

I'm curious as to how Apache 2.0 stacks up against Apache 1.3, as well as recent versions of iPlanet and Zeus. A quick web and usenet search via google found gobs of benchmark results, none of which were newer than about 8 months. Anyone have some links to modern bechmark results... or a pointer to a "good" opensource httpd benchmark tool (or anything other than SPECweb99)?

Re:recent benchmarks?

[green pizza]

Performance isn't an issue unless you're still running it on a 486. ;-)

Sun SPARCstation 20, more than enough power... but hey, I'll take any extra performance I can get! :-D

Re:recent benchmarks?

[cliffwoolley]

Apache will never run as fast as iPlanet or Zeus because it is more sophisticated. It's definitely better than Apache 1.3 as of late, though. Look through the archives for dev@httpd.apache.org and search for a message from Brian Pane a week or two ago when we were putting the finishing touches on the bucket brigades API work... he posted some performance comparisons there.

As for iPlanet and Zeus ... maybe in Apache 2.1 or 3.0 or whenever we get the async I/O MPM that we've been talking about, then we'll come closer. But still, you just have to expect that it's a tradeoff: do you want ultra-fast performance on a fairly simple web server, or do you want really good performance on highly customizable web server?

Re:recent benchmarks?

[larien]

Depends what you're doing; you can probably punt the bits down the wire fast enough of a pentium, but if you're doing server-side stuff (CGI/mod_perl/PHP/whatever) there will be an added hit on performance where you might need a beefier box. For static data, you can probably saturate 100Mbit link on something like a P200 (mebbe even less)

Re:recent benchmarks?

[zerocool^]

hrmm...

at work we have a lot of servers that run on Sun Sparcstations less than 4. We have a few sparc station 10's, but the majority of them are 1/1+ and 2's, not to mention IPC, IPX, and LX/Classic lunchboxes.

these are all running apache 1.3.19 fine, i wonder if they'll still run 2.0.x without crippling themselves. (IPC's and SPARC 1's are 12 mhz, but still serve like 3 million hits a month)

In any case, i'm jealous of your sparcstation 20.

Re:recent benchmarks?

[f00zbll]

How about run some benchmarks yourself and post them on the net :) In my opinion, the only kinds of website that should even worry about performance is dynamic sites. Even then, for low concurrency it's a non issue. Util your site needs to handle a steady flow of 100+ concurrent req/sec for 24/7, performance probably isn't going be an issue. The one major exception is E-commerce SSL servers. Most big e-comm sites use hardware acceleration anyways, so it's still a dynamic site.

In a lot of cases, how you design your application has the biggest impact on performance. I've worked on dynamic site using apache, iplanet, IIS, weblogic and tomcat. Each server has it's strength and weakness, so knowing how it works before you start coding is your best bet on good performance. iPlanet is pretty fast if you're writing your applications in C, but if you're using java, their servlet container sucks nuts. Zeus is a good server. It's great that apache 2.0 supports threading, since that will make it easier to develop more complex applications.

the image servers run on this

[JDizzy]

I can remember krow (aka Brian Aker) tell me in IRC about how he setup apache2 to just server images. Like the most simple thing you can do. It requires no special threading, or proces modes, just http1.1. At most, they can do geographic ad targeting with revers DNS lookups tied to the image servers. Blah... still not that special, but at least they can say they run apache2. I have also read where he claims apache2 is't ready for prime time. This is very telling, not because he is senior Slashdot developer, but more because he is known best for his apache 1.3 modules, such as mod_mp3, or mod_layout.

Re:the image servers run on this

[krow]

Can Slashdot use Apache 2.0 as the web server for images? Sure, no problem.
Could we run the core of Slashdot on it? No.
The problem is that Apache by itself is pretty much worthless in today's web environment by itself. You need other modules like mod_perl, PHP, and such to really make any use of it.
Till they are stable and are in production form Apache 2.0 is pretty much useless from my perspective.
Perspective is completly needs related and should not be considered a sweeping statement about said product nor should it be seen as an endorsement nor as a warning. Supply your own batteries to said opinion and do not feed after midnight.

CowboyNeal

[vlad_petric]

It should be: "on CowboyNeal, which I rooted"

Got root?
The Raven.

Benchmarked with ISAPI DLL applications?

[Maddog_Delphi97]

If I'm not mistaken, Apache can serve ISAPI applications (which is basically a DLL that can dynamically create web pages based on what the user submits).. has anyone benchmarked ISAPI application under the old version of Apache and the new version of Apache?

Windows XP

[essdodson]

Anyone know if this latest 2.0.x is supposed to have the security concerns on XP that the latest in the 1.3.x series had?

Re:Windows XP

[cliffwoolley]

I'm pretty sure the answer is still "yes." Though I believe there's a hotfix from MS available for XP that fixes the problem. Have a look at this page, which explains the issue: http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/binaries/win32/#x pbug and points you at the corresponding MSKB article.

not usually

[Trepidity]

Not on most compilers/platforms. On the SPARC (and many other RISC) platforms, for example, there is no ++ or -- instruction -- "inc %l0" is a pseudoinstruction that expands to "add 1, %l0". On the x86 there is an inc, but gcc will optimize a +1 to be inc anyway.

Selling Apache

[totallygeek]

Apache has sold as various forks and parts of distros.

I had forgotten about Stronghold....

Re:Selling Apache

[NuShrike]

and I believe as part of IBM's Websphere, Oracle's Application Server, the forementioned Stronghold, plus whatever else it gets modified and rebundled as.

"find / -name base -print0 | xargs -0 chown us"

Semi-stable working PHP

[SiMac450]

Well, neither 4.1.2 or 4.2.0RC2 worked for me with Apache 2.0. However, I have a simple solution. I just stole the CVS copy of the apache2filter (well, actually only the .h, .c, and .m4 files) and put it with 4.1.2 and it works perfectly. See it in action at http://simonster.com/. If you're too lazy to do this procedure yourself, I have a source archive at http://simonster.com/php-4.1.2.tar.gz

For installation, I found that the easiest thing to do is to add

AddOutputFilter PHP .php
AddInputFilter PHP .php

Somewhere in the document and, for indexes,

AddType text/html .php

before the DirectoryIndex (which must be modified to add index.php). The CVS version works also, but I had problems with some scripts under it. Hope this helps. SiMac450

Re:Semi-stable working PHP

[SiMac450]

Forgot to note, use --with-apxs2[=DIR] not --with-apxs when building. This can be seen with ./configure, but I wanted to make it as clear as possible.

Next distros

[mnordstr]

So, are the next versions of RedHat, Mandrake, SuSE, etc. going to be released with an Apache 2 package?

Re:Not to spoil it for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

MSVC


; 1 : main1(){ int i; i = 0;i++;}

00000 55 push ebp
00001 8b ec mov ebp, esp
00003 51 push ecx
00004 c7 45 fc 00 00
00 00 mov DWORD PTR _i$[ebp], 0
0000b 8b 45 fc mov eax, DWORD PTR _i$[ebp]
0000e 83 c0 01 add eax, 1
00011 89 45 fc mov DWORD PTR _i$[ebp], eax
00014 8b e5 mov esp, ebp
00016 5d pop ebp
00017 c3 ret 0

; 3 : main(){int i;i = 0;i+=1;}

00018 55 push ebp
00019 8b ec mov ebp, esp
0001b 51 push ecx
0001c c7 45 fc 00 00
00 00 mov DWORD PTR _i$[ebp], 0
00023 8b 45 fc mov eax, DWORD PTR _i$[ebp]
00026 83 c0 01 add eax, 1
00029 89 45 fc mov DWORD PTR _i$[ebp], eax
0002c 8b e5 mov esp, ebp
0002e 5d pop ebp
0002f c3 ret 0


Identical.

Where is the Win32 version?!?

[ThatField]

i can't even find a win32 version of Apache 2.0.35 in order to find out how well it works on any version of Windows. Which is really odd.... 'cause a couple months ago I saw there was a beta version of the 2.0 available for windows... *confucked out of his mind* ...so I'm guessing this isn't released yet on the Windows platform

Re:Where is the Win32 version?!?

[essdodson]

The site indicates that a MSI based installer will be available shortly for this release. Source is available however I don't have awk and other tools installed so I can't compiled it.

What is Linux then?

[essdodson]

Okay, Do you know anyone who runs Linux? I don't know anyone who runs just Linux, seems a bit pointless to me just to run a kernel.

You obviously knew what he meant. Also, if RedHat isn't Linux then who funds the vast majority of Linux development?

Down with redhat all you want, but Linux wouldn't be half the operating system it is today without their major contributions. Not saying that this was what you were saying, but that's the overall impression I get reading /.

Re: Ad servers

[Raetsel]

ABORT, ABORT!!!

Whoa there, cowboy. Slow down a bit.

"These slimeballs" don't even come into play here. Slashdot is hosting its' own ads (in this case), so your spleen-venting is rather unfair. Half of what you're demanding they do, they already do! (And if they're willing to accept credit cards directly, or let me mail them a check, I'll subscribe -- I won't deal with PayPal. There is that point.)

Now, back on target... The addresses I posted were all requests from the slashdot.org domain. The log was from my proxy -- which drops all communication with Doubleclick.

It's easy to check, just make the request to images.slashdot.org -- it's the California Digital ad about their acquisition of VA Linux's servers "...blue lights and all." The interesting thing is that you can see the load balancing in action. I received responses from "Apache/1.3.12" and "Apache/2.0.35" (same content, different server!) -- keep hitting 'reload', you'll see it.

Final note... I switched off my denial function and took a look at Doubleclick -- both their .com domain and clients that serve from their .net ad servers. Yes the 'Great Satan' is joined at the hip with Lucifer himself (at least from what I'm told here). They're running Internet Information Server, both v4 and v5.

Tomcat integration?

[Bodrius]

Is Tomcat integration available for the new Apache? If not, do they plan to release the module (be it webapp or something else) soon?

Re:Tomcat integration?

[SumDog]

yes. If you look in the RedHat rpm section, they do have a package for the tomcat4 module for apache2

I'll run apache 2.0...

[3Suns]

when "apt-get update & apt-get -f dist-upgrade" runs it for me.

Re:Apache's lead slipping?

[_Shad0w_]

If you read any stories you'd know that's becuase of large free web hosting companies switching to IIS. Which is their problem.

Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[pwagland]

httpd.apache.org has this to say: (my emphasis)

Apache 1.3.24 is the best version of Apache currently available; everyone running 1.2.X servers or earlier are strongly urged to upgrade to 1.3, as there will not be any further 1.2.X releases. At present, the Win32 port of Apache is not as stable as the UNIX version.

and also

Apache 2.0 offers numerous enhancements, improvements and performance boosts over the 1.3 codebase

But nowhere do they actually say that 2.0.35 is their best release. At least not yet, maybe they will change their website in the future....

Re:Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[edwardkung]

They say it here for the win32 binaries at least.

Re:Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[ClosedSource]

I followed your link and I didn't find any text that recommends the use of 2.0 over 1.3.24.

Re:Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[lmfr]

To: announce@apache.org
Subject: Official Release: Apache 2.0.35 is now GA

...

The HTTPD Project signed off today on the 2.0.35 release, and recommends it for use on production websites. 2.0.35 is now considered our best release and should be used in preference to all older versions (including the 1.3 series).

...

Re:Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[John Siracusa]

httpd.apache.org has this to say: (my emphasis)

Apache 1.3.24 is the best version of Apache currently available

...unless you want to send multiple Set-Cookie headers from mod_perl in a single response, in which case you're better off with an earlier version because this (pretty basic) functionality is broken in 1.3.24 (see the apache mailing list(s) for more details).

Re:Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[cliffwoolley]

That was my fault. I forgot to remove that paragraph from httpd.apache.org yesterday when I was madly scrambling to update the site. You'll notice today that it's gone. :) 2.0.35 *is* the best version of Apache available, and we strongly urge you to upgrade from 1.3 as soon as all of the modules you need have been ported forward.

[You'd be amazed at how many copies of things there are to update on the apache.org websites when putting out a release. :]

Re:Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[gregames]

A lot of us are off getting drunk and celebrating. You'll probably see the web site updated soon.

Re:Where do they recommend to use 2.0 over 1.3.24?

[ClosedSource]

Thanks for the corrected reference.

Re:r00t3d box,

[fyonn]

but if you keep watching that LED then you can probably work out all the data thatis being written from the pattern of ultra fast blink's :)
dave

Re: Ad servers

[Perdo]

I had thought so too, but some of the big java middle of the screen ads are:

http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N2613.osdn/B960233. 2; sz=336x280

Which idents as DCLK-HttpSvr

resolves to IP 204.253.104.80

Which is inside Doubleclick's Netblock

Double Click (NETBLK-UU-204-253-104) UU-204-253-104

IP 204.253.104.0 - 204.253.105.255

Your proxy drops connections with doubleclick but while you "weren't looking", Slashdot started having tea parties and playing house with them. Scan your logs of dropped connections and you will find those within the Doubleclick Netblock occured while you were surfing slashdot.

Any good books?

[KjetilK]

Anybody know about any good books covering Apache 2?

I found one book last time I went to the bookshop, but all it contained was listings of various config files... It certainly wasn't a lot the author made on her own in there...

Re:Any good books?

[cliffwoolley]

If you can wait just a little while, Ryan Bloom, one of the Apache developers, has written a book called Apache Server 2.0: The Complete Reference. It's due out at the end of May. Here's the Amazon link.

Re:Any good books?

[KjetilK]

Thanks! Unfortunately, I can't wait, since for the next 20 days, somebody's paying my tech book bills... :-)

Kiwi filesystem?

[KjetilK]

integrated SSL and WebDAV support

WebDAV seems great when you try to work with larger groups. While I do OK with FTP and similar stuff, I think it would be a nice feature to be able to mount a remote WebDAV directory, and it seems like this is available in the form of Kiwi Filesystem

Does anybody have any experience with this software? Has it been included in any distros?

Re:Kiwi filesystem?

[Whyzzi]

No experience with Kiwi, or even WebDAV on Apache, But I am using WebDAV on IIS 5 (Windows 2000 Server) to update my site using MacroMedia Dream Weaver UltraDev 4. WebDAV is a nice feature to have if your website is not database backed. Setup and security is straightforward as well.

Re:Kiwi filesystem?

[crisco]

I've used the WebDAV module with Apache on both Windows and Linux systems to offer things like a quick and dirty remote file share, a private Yahoo briefcase-ish service and as another poster describes, uploading websites. WebDAV is not only cross platform, a client comes with IE 4 and later. As a part of MS 'integration', the WebDAV servers appear as a 'Web Folder' or a 'Network Place' inside Windows Explorer. This allows you to set something up and provide simple instructions for those that glaze over when you start talking about protocols or installing new software. Of course, Microsoft doens't quite implement things perfectly so I've had some bizarre issues with Windows98 refusing to connect to a server but for the most part it works very well.

I haven't used the Kiwi File System though.

apt-get

[MikeyO]

The obvious missing option for me is:

I'll run apache 2.0 when apt-get upgrade decides i will.

i'll run it when...

[Bandito]

debian packages it up for download.

If it's good enuf for Cowboy Neal...

[Codifex Maximus]

it's good enuf for me. :P

mod_perl is the only thing...

[pHaze]

...that makes apache worthwhile. OK so I'm exagerating, but c'mon Doug! When's it going to drop?!

Oh joy.

[EvlPenguin]

Great. And unless you need to run something on the scale of slashdot (in terms of cgi dirty work/complexity) I would much rather run thttpd. It's faster and smaller, with much less overhead and much (much) more secure. I've never needed all the bells and whistles of apache, and I doubt 80% of the people who use apache do.

Re:Oh joy.

[lkaos]

Yet thttpd _sucks_ compared to tux which is what you should run if you only want static content.

In fact, if you just need to serve up a bit of dynamic content, you can run apache and tux together and tux will forward requests for dynamic content to apache.

Tux is BTW, the fastest web server according to SpecWeb. Nough said.

I'll run it...

[Man of E]

...when it's out for Win32.

Re:I'll run it...

[gregames]

Great! Here you go:

http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/httpd-2.0.35.zi p

Roxen

[Trevin]

I've managed Apache at work, and Roxen at home. I still can't say whether one is better than the other, but I do like those RXML tags, so I'm sticking with Roxen for now.

When RedHat bundles it as its release web server

[yebb]

when I can do an
'up2date'
and it gives me Apache 2.X. Then I'll do it.

I wouldn't bother with anything else. Call me lazy and trusting, but thats how it is.

Advertising.

[saintlupus]

Slashdot itself is an advertisement for Linux.

Funny, I've always considered its stability to be more of an advertisement for BSD.

Send the mac addicts back to macslash.

Hmm. I'm typing this on a Mac, which is my main machine, but from where I'm sitting I can see a Linux/PPC machine, a RedHat machine, and two OpenBSD machines (i386 and Sparc). That's just at home -- I won't get into what I've got sitting at work.

So do I still have to leave, you contentious prick?

--saint

Re:Advertising.

[Perdo]

You don't have to leave for owning macs, you have to leave for taking the april fool's day stories seriously.

Take that chip on your shoulder back to the trailer park.

for loops

[nullard]

I'm not sure about gcc, but many compilers optimize for loops differently than other code. Some platforms have built-in looping intructions since looping over a fixed number of elements is a common task.

A better test would be to compile a large amount of code replacing i+=1 with i++ everywhere. Then you could be sure that the instructions aren't just identical under special circumstances.

Re:for loops

[sparkz]

it's not a for loop... at first glance, I assumed that it was a for loop, but it's not, the example given was just: main() { int i; i = 0; i+=1; // or i++; in the other example }

Re:for loops

[sparkz]

Oops- thought the PRE tag was ok... meant to say:
main()
int i;
i=0;
i++;
}

Re:Playing it smart

[Dwonis]

What happened with Postgres?

Re:Playing it smart

[Anonymous Coward]

"critical bugfix" version 7.2.1 - see postgresql.org for the dl.

Seems if the db crashed, counters started running backwards. I suspect there were some other things that went goofy in normal operation too, I had some general weirdness going on. 7.2.1 seems to be working fine, a lot of little glitches that were occurring on the website it powers have magicly gone away since the fix. It's still my favorite db, and the price is right, so I'm not bitching about the bugs, just that I wasn't smart enough to wait for the dot-one version. Congrats and thanks to the PostgreSQL guys for giving us a kick-ass heavy-duty db solution. And the Apache guys too, but I'm still gonna hold out for dot-one.

When Slashdot runs it?

[plaa]

Isn't Slashdot already running it? I guess it still has a few bugs in it though...

When mod_perl runs 857 / 649%
When it becomes 2.1 1008 / 763%
Brian B spins it urban style 390 / 295%
Slashdot runs it 708 / 536%
Already running it, thank you 455 / 344%
On CowboyNeals box, which I've r00t3d 2594 / 1965%

132 total votes.

Eudora.com ran on a Sparc20

[Wee]

these are all running apache 1.3.19 fine, i wonder if they'll still run 2.0.x without crippling themselves. (IPC's and SPARC 1's are 12 mhz, but still serve like 3 million hits a month)

For a long long time, eudora.com ran on a Sparc20. It was upgraded to an Ultra1 somewhere circa Eudora Pro 3.0. The Ultra served bewteen 5 and 8 million requests per month. That was with apache something old, and perl CGI scripts (no mod_perl) *everywhere*. Lots of random Perl, lots of SSI (in fact, I think we parsed every page for SSI). None of that phased it. Ran like a champ.

We had a discussion at work about that server. Until we moved it one time to a new building, it had an uptime of like a year. We wondered how long it would have stayed up (assuming it wouldn't have been rooted -- since ftp, telnet and r-stuff were all enabled and open). I would have betted a long time.

We also remarked that Suns hold their value very well. Old Sparcs make great DNS servers, even nowadays. And the Ultra1 was, IMHO, one of the best small server/workstations Sun ever built. Imagine trying to get use out of a nine year old PC. Heh heh.

-B

Missing option

[Jhan]

I looked for the "over my dead body" option, but couldn't find it, so I voted Neal. Apparently, most people agree with me.

Per user permissions without suEXEC

[SendBot]

I'm extremely interested in this feature and have read in many places that this is possible. I would believe that it would be done with the 'user' directive in a virtual host context.

The apache docs says this! "Context: server config, virtual host"

But then at the bottom: Special note: Use of this directive in is no longer supported. To configure your server for suexec use SuexecUserGroup.

That makes me a sad panda.

Does anyone have any further information on this?

Error when building on Solaris 8

[Isaac-Lew]

Ok, apparently I'm having a problem building apache on Solaris 8:

In file included from /home/isaac/httpd-2.0.35/srclib/apr/atomic/so laris_sparc/apr_atomic_sparc.s:63: /usr/include/sy s/asm_linkage.h:104: `#' operator should be followed by a macro argument name

(Repeats for several different lines)

/home/isaac/httpd-2.0.35/srclib/apr/atomic/solari s_sparc/apr_atomic_sparc.s:113: unterminated character constant

Looks like possibly a broken include file on Solaris, any ideas?

Re:Error when building on Solaris 8

[cliffwoolley]

There might be a patch you need, because I know for a fact that several developers reported 2.0.35 testing out fine on their Solaris 8 boxes before we released it. I've forwarded your comment to dev@httpd.apache.org and will let you know if anybody comes back with an answer to this problem.

Re:Error when building on Solaris 8

[webperf]

Hi Isaac. can you provide us with a bit more info ? like solaris patch level GCC/forte CC version as/gas uname -m etc etc

Re:Error when building on Solaris 8

[saverio]

I have the same problem ... i have this info: uname -a : SunOS webserver 5.8 Generic_108528-08 sun4u sparc SUNW,UltraAX-i2 gcc --version : 2.95.3 as --version : 2.11.2 (GNU version)

Re:Error when building on Solaris 8

[saverio]

Problem solved, just put /usr/ccs/bin after /usr/local/bin in enviroment variable PATH.
But take much time to compile (over 30 minutes ...)

yeah, i'll run it...

[diesel_jackass]

...when MS buys apache.

muhahahahaha!

Re:yeah, i'll run it...

[RedWolves2]

Your an idiot!

When MS buys Apache you won't be able to run it because you'll have to run IIS.

MuHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

Re:yeah, i'll run it...

[TheShadow]

You're and idiot.... not Your and idiot.

Re:yeah, i'll run it...

[RedWolves2]

HAHAHA

YOU'RE a moron!

as soon as i switch to linux

[mozkill]

once linux gets a tiny bit better... mabye another year, ill start using apache probably..

missing something,,,,

[KaizerWill]

i read the announcement,,, but where are the screenshots??? *wink*

I dont' know about you guys...

[Tokerat]

...but I dont' wanna be anywhere near CowboyNeal's box, he never even trims near it.

*snicker*

I'll upgrade to apache 2.0...

[SwingGeek]

when it's available in debian stable.

I'll run Apache 2.0

[Vegeta99]

When there's Windows binaries.

Yes there are.

[N0Nick]

I'm running win32 Apache 2.0 binaries installed from an .msi pack right now.

Odd tho, can't seem to find them on the apache website... Were probably removed for some reason..

Re:runs great on FreeBSD!

[cliffwoolley]

Two things:

the prefork MPM is the default on Unix in general. We talked about switching the worker MPM (the hybrid threads/processes one) to be the default, but didn't do it for some reason or another. That's not to say that you shouldn't use the worker MPM... if your platform has good threading support, then by all means, worker is the way to go. It scales far, far better than prefork. However, it's true that you can't run a threaded Apache (and therefore the worker MPM) on FreeBSD right now. We're working on that, but it's still unclear exactly where the problem is.

the prefork MPM is not listed as experimental. If it is, it's a mistake (tell me where it says that and I'll change it!). The only one that's listed as experimental is perchild, which is the one that lets you configure the server to run certain virtual hosts under certain child processes and to assign different uid's to each child process.

I started running 2.0 last August

[meshko]

I decided to upgrade from 1.3.whatever that I was running to the latest 1.3.20, and I didn't feel like building from ports, so I just did pkg_add -r apache
When it was finished, I tried running it, but I wouldn't. I had to go through the configuration file and change everything. WTF? Why did they change config format all of a sudden? Of course it turned out that it installed 2.0.x. I still don't know why it happened though :)

I'll run Apache 2.0 when...

[inimcus]

... it comes in the box with Mac OS X. :)

i'll run apache 2.0...

[sanchz14]

when it runs on gameboy

Already running it, BUT...

[HunterZ]

I'm currently running a prerelease beta, but I probably won't bother updating until they get the PHP ISAPI module working with Apache 2.0. I really don't understand why there isn't a Win32 PHP module that works with it, considering that both PHP and Apache HTTPd are Apache.org projects, and the Apache 2.0 betas have been out since nigh on forever...

Really I'm just using all that as an excuse to be lazy and not upgrade to the final 2.0 release, and to avoid installing PHP (all I use it for currently is to serve up random pics for message board posts anyways, so noone will miss it for now... :p )

Re:Playing it smart

[scrutty]

I don't understand your "got burnt". The "backwards sequence counters after crash" bug has been present throughout all 7.1.* releases. "General Weirdness" sounds a little bit handwavy to me. Are you sure you actaully know what you are talking about here?
I have been actively developing against some BIG databases with postgresql-7.2 since its Beta releases and have yet to see any significant production problems with 7.2x. Postgresql official releases are usually of very high quality.

thttpd is good for static content, but..

[Fweeky]

Plenty of people want dynamically driven sites; something httpd isn't aimed for.

Personally I use quite a few of the features of Apache; mod_php (thttpd has this, but each script blocks the server, Not Good[tm] unless your scripts are trivial), mod_proxy (Outside world -> FreeBSD/Apache -> WinXP/Apache, appears as part of my web tree, nice and clean), mod_rewrite (how anyone can put up with the crappy URL's dynamic sites like I don't know, a 1:1 mapping of URL's to the filesystem is bad enough) and mod_gzip (does thttpd support any content negotiation?) to name the main ones, and this is just a miniscule personal server :)

Only on /.

[Daveamadid]

Where there was a VisualStudio.net ad running this morning would forget to add "When it makes it to /usr/ports" and doest say "Beta".

Duh.

Re:Playing it smart - pgsql bug

[thing12]

You only got burned by the bug if you actually saw the problem - like say me. I'm actually the one who reported the reproducable test case for this bug. The bug has been in the system since the introduced WAL in 7.1. And how did I find it? Pg crashed in our production environment and we got duplicate inserts primary keys after it started up again. At least it's fixed now - and going from 7.2.0 to 7.2.1 is _not_ a hard thing: compile, install, stop/start. Couple seconds of downtime?

mod_perl

[cetialpha]

gotta have mod_perl, no doubt

I'll run Apache 2.0.....

[t_allardyce]

..When slashdot runs IIS
..When mozilla hits 1.0

by that time it will be >2.0

Re:Apache's lead slipping?

[NetBear]

Micro$oft is very aggressive in recruiting organizations to make the switch.

Tomcat Connector still doesn't work

[deadgame]

I was hoping once the latest Apache came out that the mod_jk for apache 2.0 would work but no luck. Has anybody been able to get the mod_jk-3.3-ap20.so to work or is there a version out there owned by someone that does work?

If you're using Debain Stable....

[Da Masta]

It'll be quite the wait.

We'll probably catch a post from you around 2005 mentioning how fast Apache 2.0 is, even while running Mozilla 0.9 on KDE 2.2! ;-)