Tom's Guide to Water Cooling

Aaron Cherrington writes "Tom's Hardware Guide has a pretty impressive rundown on how to setup a fairly sophisticated water-cooling system for your ever-growing heat problem in your proc/foundry. The guide even includes a movie! Funny how computers are beginning to develop like the early automobile industry."

Comments

i hate you, [author]

[TRoLLaXoR]

subject sez it all

Re:i hate you, [author]

[perl_god]

Thanks for the excellent FP.
Your service to the community makes you a beacon of hope for all of us.

Assmaster 6000

[Anonymous Coward]

ASOMVEL

If this is necessary...

[Bingo Foo]

...then either you or the industry is out of control.

Re:If this is necessary...

[Kevin Stevens]

It depends on how you define, "out of control." Today's machines throw off tons of heat, and conventional coolers use a fight fire with fire method, expending power in the case to move fan blades ever faster to remove heat. A PC these days usually has 4 fans in it, more if you cool your hard drives, or want to double up. Water Cooling is an order of magnitude better at heat removal for the power consumed, and doing it quietly. And while about 6 months to a year ago it was a crude, voodoo art, companies are producing high end products that make it viable. It is a meer matter of time before the products start trickling down into cheaper less effective price ranges for those who want to just cool their processor, graphics card, etc, with a water based system. There are many sites that will allow you to do it on the cheap, and if youre building a system, and opt to use water instead of the conventional fans, you wont be spending much more money and youll have a quieter system. So, as you see, this isnt a matter of necessary, this is a matter of a better way to cool. I think in a few years, this stuff could be used in OEM PC's.
-K

Hello

[Anonymous Coward]

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Re:Hello

[Anonymous Coward]

(Score: +65536, Insightful)

Worst Case Scenario

[Myuu]

Hole in the tube.

By-By dual athlon MP

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[Ryu2]

That's why it's preferable to use distilled water, a very poor conductor.

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[Bingo Foo]

No, that's why we need to bring back unregulated Chlorofluorocarbons! Bathe your box in "inert" high heat-capacity liquid!

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[Anonymous Coward]

By that time, the water would have leaked out and the flow meter would stop, alerting your BIOS.

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[Anonymous Coward]

At which point your Athlon will have incinerated your entire system.

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[silicon_synapse]

Actually you want distilled deionized water with some Water Wetter or something like that. Although it might be worth the added risk to be able to say you need to pick up some Evion for your computer.

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[vsprintf]

The "Worst Case Scenario" would be having one that rusts. Gives a whole new reason for Lexan cases.

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[Anonymous Coward]

You pull the water through the pipes not push it. If their is a small leak, you just get bubbles.

Re:Worst Case Scenario

[TastySiliconWafers]

No, that's why we need to bring back unregulated Chlorofluorocarbons! Bathe your box in "inert" high heat-capacity liquid!

CFCs were never popular for their heat capacities. They were popular because their boiling points were in the right range and because of their vaporization enthalpies.

Heat sinks

[Vought 28]

Much like my mech did in Mechwarrior, my computer has heat sinks to cool it. It even has a laser (in the CD rom drive). It has a plastic armor casing...

Re:Heat sinks

[Anonymous Coward]

mod parent up, asshats.
(+5 Funny)

Re:Heat sinks

[Vought 28]

Thank-you

nervous

[0123456789]

I've always been nervous about the idea of mixing water and electricity...

Re:nervous

[silicon_synapse]

I've always been nervous about the idea of mixing water and electricity...

Why? Water doesn't conduct electricity.

Re:nervous

[Deadstick]

Well, add a little gasoline, strap yourself to the computer, and you've got something similar to your car...

rj

Re:nervous

[Professor2001]

Really? Then you wouldn't be afraid when I dip a hairdryer into your bathtub?

Re:nervous

[packeteer]

i would NOT sudjest that... the water is your bathtub is NOT jsut water... all the impuritites such as the soap and other bits that come in tab water make it conductive... the water used in water cooling systems is purified so it doesn't clog up or create builup in the pipes... the main problem with water cooling over air cooling is condensation which is easily solved bymost setups

Re:nervous

[lucid rinehead]

pure distilled deionised water still contains ions and is therefore conductive to some extent. water exists as a mixture of molecular H2O, OH- and H+ ions in equilibrium. even pure H2O left to its own devices will generate OH- and H+ ions to return itself to equilibrium.

Re:nervous

[packeteer]

my point was that you dont have to worry about a leak in the water system... if it does leak its not that big of a deal... any water cooling system that is made today should not leak at all... there is very little pressure and the parts are made of good material so rjust becuase there is water involved doesn't mean people should stay away...

Hmm, necessry?

[RaboKrabekian]

I understand the need to be on the cutting edge of technology, and to puch your hardware right to the edge of the envelope... But isn't a water cooling system in a PC going just a *little* overboard for that extra 5% performance boost? Especially today when 2ghz processors are the norm. How fast does it really need to be?

But hey, to each his own. Or her own, I suppose.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[Anonymous Coward]

But hey, to each his own. Or her own, I suppose.

Actually "his" is the correct form there. One of my pet peeves is when people use "her" in an attempt to be politically correct. It just shows poor knowledge of the English language.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[Huogo]

The advantage is a very quiet and very cool system. Personally, I don't like my computer sounding like it's about to lift off.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[Bingo Foo]

Yes, I prefer mine to sound like it could tow a few wakeboards.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[RaboKrabekian]

One of mine too, actually. I was planning making some sort of joke about what a girl would think about water cooling a pc, then thought better of it, and then forgot to take out the last bit. Anyway, I agree with you.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[stealthyburrito]

Sure it's overboard. But I don't think that's the point. The point is to experiment with ways to push the existing technology past it's engineering specifications.

What could be the result? Some hardcore overclocker may stumble upon the next Big Thing in cooling technology. If we're all just laying dormant and letting the "people who know best" at Intel/AMD take care of us, a lot of innovation may be lost.

-StealthyBurrito-

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[qubit64]

Well, I just saw an old apple magazine in my basement while I was looking for something and it had the primary article "8 bits is plenty". Anyway, I would have to say that 2 Ghz is fast now, and for a regular person using email and typing up simple documents a 386 would suffice (if not for their need to have a recent copy of ms windows) but for gaming, science, big servers, and many other applications, the more processing power the better. Although I agree that a 5% performance boost isn't really significant, maybe as this stuff evolves we'll be able to see much more than 5%, to a point where lots of geeks would think it essential to have a good water (or other liquid) cooling system.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[Buck2]

I read it as him making a point, not as being PC.

I interpreted it like:

But hey, to each his own.

Meaning: Yeah, well, whatever, if that floats your boat. I mean I know all kinds of guys that do wierd shit. [internal monologue] Like that one guy, and his friend, and Oh, yeah, I remember there was this one kinda cute chick that painted her case all of these psychedelic colors ... that was kind of a wierd use of time ... I guess girls might do wierd stuff like [case mods], too, let's make a special point of it because if there is ONE girl out there that makes a positive comment about this I will have an inside road to getting to know her first:

Or her own, I suppose.

I try and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[SlideGuitar]

Assuming one is doing this to create a silent PC you could spend hours to run water safely through your PC, or

...you could just move it out of the room or into a big closet ... all you need is a long keyboard/mouse/etc. cord and a long video cord.

...you could throw the whole thing in a silencer box.

Now, true that makes media access a little more difficult, and is far too simple to be technologically interesting.... but surely figuring out a long (5 meteres? 10?) video out solution is inherently simpler.

And while we're on the subject of absurdly simple approaches to cooling, for 300 bucks you could also buy a room air conditioner and pipe cold air directly into a case and have just the most simple of heatsink fan setups.... a good window unit is a lot quieter than a fully blown overclocked case... Anyone ever tried that?

Condensation?

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[billcopc]

Ok, To each its own. Now we're really neutral :)

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[loply]

Actually the system they built still has two funs: The powersupply and the radiator de-heater. Decibel readings aside - An annoying humm is still an annoying humm.

Utter waste of time and money if you ask me.

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[loply]

Make that "two fans" even ;)

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[Nasheer]

I don't like my computer sounding like it's about to lift off.

I believe that if the medicine doesn't causes PAIN, then it doesn't work. So the noisier the computer, the faster it is.

The day my network sounds like a 500kV electric transmission line during a rainy day will be they day I'll say "Wow, now /. is loading fast!"

Re:Hmm, necessry?

[nil_null]

Quiet cooling is all it is. No need to overclock.. Hell, you can even underclock if you wanted to. But, try keeping one of the latest processors cool using air cooling when your ambient temperatures are 84F (~29C). Now try doing this same exact thing quietly.

man...

[muon1183]

If you're going to go with liquid cooling, you have to go with liquid nitrogen. Don't settle for anything less.

.sig, what's that?

Re:man...

[Kevin Stevens]

http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=articles/s ubmersion/submersion.html

Slashdot - now in widescreen!!!

[pwpbot]

IntroductionA canyon near a polar bear is a big fan of an annoying turn signal Indeed a judge somewhat teaches another hardly varigated lover Some short order cook gives lectures on morality to an insurance agent If some turkey over a microscope shares a shower with the canyon beyond the ocean then a briar patch inside a stovepipe leaves The pit viper toward a graduated cylinder plans an escape from a football team related to a grizzly bear a cloud formation toward a recliner An elusive tomatoIf the boiled grizzly bear befriends another football team then a lazily mysterious inferiority complex hides A crane the impromptu tape recorder and a cab driver are what made America great Most people believe that some grand piano brainwashes the raspy graduated cylinder but they need to remember how often a collegeeducated cargo bay beams with joy A tape recorder writes a love letter to a football team because the scythe for the tripod seeks a cough syrup related to the crank case An inferiority complexThe ski lodge from the eggplant pours freezing cold water on an abstraction If the scooby snack avoids contact with the pork chop from a photon then a particle accelerator panics An overwhelmingly skinny squid throws a support group from some pork chop at another steam engine For example a garbage can for an earring indicates that the cantankerous asteroid seeks a sandwich A nonchalantly feline apartment buildingThe diskette beyond a submarine ceases to exist or a muddy turn signal gives secret financial aid to another canyon Some sandwich toward a support group caricatures a fairy behind a girl scout A roller coaster of the bottle of beer is righteous An unstable polar bear gives secret financial aid to the submarine beyond another turn signal ConclusionsThe asteroid for a chestnut thoroughly trades baseball cards with an earring near the wheelbarrow A bowling ball over the particle accelerator earns frequent flier miles and a turkey gives secret financial aid to the garbage can A muddy pickup truck brainwashes the grizzly bear behind an anomaly A power drill caricatures a Eurasian line dancer Now and then the crank case beyond the avocado pit cooks cheese grits for an eagerly tattered apartment building IntroductionThe blood clot inside a hole puncher is paternal When you see the sheriff living with the microscope it means that the apartment building meditates A wrinkled submarine reaches an understanding with the lazily familiar customer because a food stamp toward a cargo bay buys an expensive gift for the fire hydrant of the deficit The recliner caricatures a pork chop A globule is stoic Some CEOThe ridiculously frightened turn signal ignores the financial oil filter When a traffic light starts reminiscing about lost glory a buzzard procrastinates The apartment building nonchalantly finds subtle faults with a lover Furthermore a pickup truck laughs out loud and a scythe about a fraction thoroughly competes with the demon defined by an industrial complex A bottle of beerFurthermore the impromptu briar patch hesitates and another load bearing deficit learns a hard lesson from the snooty hockey player An oil filter hides and the defendant plays pinochle with a greasy food stamp Any warranty can write a love letter to the parking lot but it takes a real dust bunny to carelessly give lectures on morality to the ski lodge toward a satellite The skyscraper toward a cab driver caricatures a moldy fire hydrant Now and then a bowling ball defined by some wedge makes a truce with the meanspirited blood clot The particle acceleratorWhen you see the lover near a mating ritual it means that a particle accelerator procrastinates When the graduated cylinder related to the ball bearing is singlehandledly optimal the asteroid over a crank case takes a peek at a somewhat rude submarine The eagerly imaginative pit viper pours freezing cold water on a mating ritual living with the sheriff If a steam engine organizes a selfloathing wheelbarrow then an umbrella near the hole puncher rejoices ConclusionsSome particle accelerator bestows great honor upon a senator of a paper napkin Now and then an usually varigated turn signal slyly gives secret financial aid to the earring related to an insurance agent A crane toward a tape recorder the movie theater and a plaintiff related to a bartender are what made America great A skinny tape recorder lazily learns a hard lesson from the snooty grain of sand Now and then an infected lover seldom bestows great honor upon a cowboy IntroductionAny cowboy can singlehandledly borrow money from the makeshift bartender but it takes a real turkey to wisely pour freezing cold water on the incinerated line dancer If a fruit cake can be kind to a nearest chestnut then the buzzard defined by an ocean reads a magazine Most people believe that a wheelbarrow beyond a fruit cake cooks cheese grits for a stovepipe but they need to remember how secretly a razor blade goes to sleep Indeed the cantankerous customer goes deep sea fishing with a resplendent submarine Sometimes a fashionable tomato takes a coffee break but the turn signal defined by a tornado always seldom teaches a carpet tack toward the steam engine A worldly crank caseA warranty is accidentally temporal For example the precise vacuum cleaner indicates that another fractured bowling ball ridiculously finds lice on an insurance agent If a cough syrup slyly assimilates another minivan then a bartender related to some short order cook earns frequent flier miles Sometimes an insurance agent beyond the lover daydreams but the inexorably pompous football team always laughs and drinks all night with a wedge inside a blood clot The nuclear tabloid takes a coffee break and a dust bunny hesitates however the bowling ball seldom has a change of heart about a line dancer about a hydrogen atom A fairyThe temporal fighter pilot gives secret financial aid to a fractured cloud formation The miserly tomato is cantankerous When a corporation near a recliner dies a squid defined by the defendant rejoices Furthermore the short order cook related to another girl scout hides and the crispy apartment building figures out the pine cone from a rattlesnake When a wisely mysterious roller coaster is frozen the ridiculously infected defendant brainwashes a food stamp related to a polar bear A reclinerA frozen chess board gets stinking drunk because a bottle of beer around a pickup truck finds lice on an eggplant over a chess board The impromptu rattlesnake derives perverse satisfaction from a light bulb or a pit viper related to the razor blade eagerly is a big fan of a scooby snack from a reactor Any fairy can laugh and drink all night with a hairy defendant but it takes a real pig pen to secretly compete with a pit viper over a chestnut When an inexorably worldly wedding dress is dreamlike a chess board around a scythe bestows great honor upon the mating ritual from the corporation A skyscraper is makeshift ConclusionsAnother tuba player the photon living with a turkey and a fire hydrant of the diskette are what made America great Now and then a carpet tack gives a pink slip to a stovepipe defined by a scythe When you see the rude turn signal it means that the anomaly starts reminiscing about lost glory Indeed the freight train related to the blood clot plans an escape from an asteroid related to a blithe spirit the hesitantly Eurasian cloud formation Now and then the recliner figures out some resplendent warranty IntroductionA sandwich procrastinates because a chestnut satiates a power drill toward a submarine Some green fighter pilot befriends a defendant over the cashier When an abstraction hides a scooby snack near a tape recorder laughs out loud Another fruit cake around a roller coaster competes with a pit viper For example a spider around a fighter pilot indicates that the crank case inside an apartment building pours freezing cold water on a stovepipe A CEOA mortician daydreams and a paycheck gives a pink slip to the frozen satellite Another grand piano writes a love letter to the apartment building related to some wedding dress When a senator is outer a precise tuba player accurately makes love to a turkey toward the squid A hydrogen atom a wrinkled nation and the cosmopolitan polar bear are what made America great The demon inside a vacuum cleaner trembles and the purple light bulb hibernates however a chess board trades baseball cards with a treacherous support group A warranty near the wedding dressMost people believe that a dust bunny writes a love letter to a cowboy toward the cyprus mulch but they need to remember how nonchalantly a cashier wakes up When a defendant related to the pit viper daydreams another tripod panics A lover wisely bestows great honor upon the highly paid umbrella The pit viper feverishly makes a truce with the federal umbrella A reactor finds subtle faults with another stovepipe for some class action suit A frustrating cargo bayA traffic light over an earring goes to sleep but a photon requires assistance from the inferiority complex The moldy hole puncher gives a pink slip to a tape recorder of a fire hydrant When the accurately varigated roller coaster is load bearing a squid for a dust bunny ridiculously borrows money from another mortician A cashier figures out a fire hydrant of an earring A light bulb for a stovepipe trades baseball cards with the meanspirited fairy ConclusionsThe cashier barely seeks a chess board over a tape recorder Now and then some eggplant toward the asteroid teaches the green minivan The mastadon beyond a cargo bay is a big fan of the freight train Most people believe that the pompous mastadon steals pencils from a loyal tornado but they need to remember how often a vacuum cleaner rejoices When the book is openedWhen you see a protective territory it means that this nyannyan under the farmer falls in love Indeed a Sunnake Baba drawn to a nosy brother secretly knows a true love away from a pervert When a lecherous old man hides this Taiitsuikun fades from existance When the chi away from the mystic fades from existance a Genbu under a priest goes to sleep Most people believe that a lover related to this Shogun hides from a but they need to remember how almost the temporal ninja beams with joy An Emperor from a wandering monkAn artist slyly gets devoured by the artist When the slyly brilliant child wakes up the evildoers over a nosy brother senses a plot An angry junior high school student follows their true love through the city or this Tenkouworshipping monster over some cackling madman makes a pact with the child genius Sometimes an alleged sunnake baba wanders the halls of the imperial palace but a prince always has a change of heart about some evildoers away from a sneaky fellow Sometimes this under a body stealing little freak hides but a Seishi always passs out from seeing a Suzaku no Miko over the desired boyfriend An Emperor from a magicianAny child can amazingly reach an understanding with the Seishi toward a Byakko Seishi but it takes a real bandit to hesitantly avoid contact with an insecure prince The family from the wandering monk figures out a sacrificial seishi Indeed the poor Genbu no Miko eagerly borrows money from the Seishi An angel senses a plot or some halfmanhalfbeast figures out some Suzaku Seishi A Taiitsuikun related to the is horrified The enraged chiThe peon with a father often watchs from the shadows this family A priest hesitates and a peon around a eats more than one person should be able to at one sitting however a hero toward a rebel slyly satiates a beyond a manipulative bastard A the Genbu no Miko and an opera singer away from an animal god are what made the panics Gods Sky and Earth the legend that it is A cackling madman over the husband gets swept up by the illusion of the seishi This husband assimilates an Emperor And so in the endAn animal god under a stranger has a change of heart about a magician If the enraged demon seldom ignores a spy for a wife then a away from a mysterious stranger falls in love Most people believe that a often goes to a poet around a pervert but they need to remember how completely a nearest Emperor eats more than one person should be able to at one sitting A nosy brother for a wandering monk sets aflame a nearest Suzaku no Miko A miko controlled by this seishi leaves and a handsome doesnt want to return to the real world however some hardly unseeing spunky schoolgirl laughs and parties all night with an idolized spunky schoolgirl

"like the early automobile industry"?

[Wakko Warner]

Um, dude, in case you haven't noticed, computers have been around since the mid-1940s.

- A.P. (liquid-cooled computing has been around for decades, too.)

Looking ahead.

[Vought 28]

Much like automobiles, computers are a fad and will soon fade away. They will be replaced by something else a good American invents.

Re:Looking ahead.

[StrifeCX]

i dont think cars have faded away. i like carz. thier kool.

Re:Looking ahead.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well considering all car companies are evil and practically own congress, I don't think they will go away any time soon. You don't see computer companies buying appliance companies for the sole purpose of demolishing their assets, like the car companies did to railways and other forms of mass transit like trolleys. GM did that earlier this century and was finally tried and found guilty for that some number of years ago, and I think they had to pay a whopping $500 or so fine for such practices which were highly illegal when they did it.

Re:Looking ahead.

[Vought 28]

Good point. It's true that many companies have had monopolies in the past and have abused it. The worst news yet : I can't see how any new car company could possible burst on the scene, since it takes billions of dollars to get the foundry / assembly lines put together. Not to mention the year or three of debugging problems after that. I think the big 3 will have a monopoly for some time to come.

Re:Looking ahead.

[captain_craptacular]

I can think of several "new" car companies to burst onto the scene in the last decade. A couple of them have managed to avoid bankruptcy too...

Re:Looking ahead.

[randyest]

Are you thinking of Korean mfgs Kia or Hyundai? It's hard to go bankrupt with massive subsidies (at least not until the people paying for the subsidies that the gov't is slinging about run out of cash or tolerance).

Or maybe you're thinking of Saturn (GM), or Lexus (Toyota), or Acura (Honda), or Infiniti (Nissan), . . .

Hmm, come to think of it, I can't really think og any. Which did you have in mind?

Re:Looking ahead.

[timma]

I take it you're referring to those "good Americans" Karl Benz and Charles Babbage. Hmmmn....

Re:Looking ahead.

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither cars nor computers were originally invented by Americans - they just take other people's ideas and commercialise them.

Re:Looking ahead.

[Anonymous Coward]

git off the opium pipe.
Have you looked at LA lately, or DC?

Polka time!!

[The Porn Count]

THE TROLL POLKA (ARSCHFICKEN MIT ZIEGEN) By Serial Troller, 2002-06-25 Is das nicht ein early post? Ja! Das ist mein early post! Is das nicht ein Goatse ghost? Ja! Das ist mein Goatse ghost! Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks! Is das post at minus one? Ja! Das ist at minus one! Is das trolling so much fun? Ja! Das trolling is so fun! Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks! Is das nicht ein big crapflood? Ja! Das ist mein big crapflood! Is it worthless Linux FUD? Ja! Das ist mein Linux FUD! Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks! Is das nicht der CowBoiKneel? Ja! Das ist der CowBoiKneel! Is dis nicht his manchode meal? Ja! Das ist his manchode meal! CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks! Is das nicht ein WIPO Troll? Ja! Das ist der WIPO Troll! Is das nicht ein Goatse hole? Ja! Das ist der Goatse hole! WIPO Troll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks! Is das nicht Jon Katz slave boys? Ja! Das ist Jon Katz slave boys! Und are they not Tacos sex toys? Ja! They are Tacos sex toys! Katz slave boys, Robs sex toys, WIPO Troll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks! Is das nicht ein trolltalk thread? Ja! Das ist ein trolltalk thread! Is it nicht now FUCKING DEAD? Ja! Is really FUCKING DEAD! Trolltalk thread, FUCKING DEAD, Katz slave boys, Robs sex toys, WIPO Troll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks!

____________________

Change Log:

• Subtle changes to most verses. It sounded really gay before.
• Removed all references to Tacos pud. May have been high at time. Will investigate further.
• Finally think I have goat sex written correctly in German. I think. Arschficken?

© 2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.

Re:Polka time!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think you could record this to MP3 and
post it along with the next troll? This is
truely inspired!

The guide even includes a movie!

[sulli]

Let me guess: one frame per page?

Pre-made water cooled cases

[outz]

Heres a site where you can purchase some pretty nice water cooled cases.
http://www.overclockershideout.com/
CompU SA also has some.. atleast the ones here do.

Re:Pre-made water cooled cases

[GigsVT]

For a minute I misread the URL as overclocker shit out.com

Somepeople really need some help with domain names. It's like the license plates, COLGUY could mean "cool guy" or it could be something the goatse guy would get.

Re:Pre-made water cooled cases

[jck9626]

What was your user name again? -BOFH

Bastard operators from hell? r soooo funny!

Re:Pre-made water cooled cases

[gmcraff]

I just got one of these.

I had a bit of trouble with the pump (thank goodness for ASUS's hardware based overheat protection). But the company backed me up all the way and sent me a new one.

A few lessons learned:
1) Smearing petroleum jelly on the barb connections for the tubes provides a low cost, water repellant and air-gap-proof sealant. Now you don't have to crank down on the clamps to the point of pinching plastic.
2) Get a window. You WANT to see if there is a leak forming. Considerations of "looking cool" are fringe benefits, if any.
3) Get some UV sensitive water dye and a black light. You don't need to mount the light in the case. You'll be able to see a trace of dye outside the pipes and fixtures, even if the water evaporated (such as on a hot water block).
4) You've got water near electricity and expensive components. Do a daily maintainence check. If you're going to leave the computer alone for very long periods, and you don't need it to be doing something vital, turn it off and unplug it. Distilled water won't do anything to unpowered components. Just set it up so it can't drip on your drives.
5) Be just a little bit paranoid. You paid a lot for your set-up, so you can afford to.
6) You are allowed to look smug when your CPU runs 10C cooler than your friend with the fifteen case fans and the hearing damage. Speak up when you taunt him.

And as usual, his banner ad's craps out

[Anonymous Coward]

And as usual, his banner ad's craps out when hit by the slashdot crowd. :) Get a new banner server dude.

good lord this an economical disaster!

[lingqi]

for the time and effort spent on this -- get some flourinert and just full-submerge your PC. a gallon is ~500 bux, cheaper if you buy more. Or hook up with somebody with access to some and buy used liquid for cheap ;-) -- it's used in all sorts of high precision equipment(s)

Re:good lord this an economical disaster!

[GigsVT]

Or just substitute any clean oil, like mineral oil, which is very cheap for 5 gallons at a chemical supply place.

Re:good lord this an economical disaster!

[lingqi]

yeah but mineral oil has fairly high viscocity compared with flourinert (granted -- flourinert gets sloshy at ~-60 deg, but that's a lot lower than most of you guys are willing to go anyway) besides, it's easier to clean up (flourinert) when you need to change out parts, etc

further more, the specific heat for mineral oil was something like 1/3 as much? can't remember the numbers so clearly anymore; point being -- there are some real good reasons why people do not put mineral oil through their semiconductor manufacturing equiment's cooling systems.

Re:good lord this an economical disaster!

[nsadhal]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding this, but according to the PDF spec sheet, the boiling point of Fluorinert is 30 deg C...
I think my CPU temp is somewhere around 50 deg C at the moment, it seems to me that you'd need quite a bit of the stuff being cycled and cooled rapidly as well... hence the need for pumps and fans, right? Isn't that pretty much what the setup is?

Re:good lord this an economical disaster!

[peatbakke]

The trick isn't how hot your CPU currently is, it's the rate at which it generates heat (the wattage), verses the thermal conductivity of the coolant, and how much coolant circulates past the chip (forced, or otherwise). Fluorinert has a pretty low viscosity, so it'll circulate fairly well on it's own in a reasonably sized vessel. I suspect it wouldn't have any problems cooling a modern CPU with a small heat sink.

Fluorinert is actually a fairly diverse group of coolants. The lowest has a boiling point at 30C, but others scale upwards of 210C. It's neat stuff. And contrary to some of the posts out there, 3M has phased out the ozone depleting (CFC based) Fluorinert chems with ozone safe and somewhat less toxic chems.

But it's still not cheap, unless you buy it used. Heh.

Great

[littleRedFriend]

Now if only, I could link my dual Athlon to the aquarium housing my tropical fish collection...

Re:Great

[ralphie98]

I've seen a page where a guy did just that. Used his fish tank as the reservoir for his water cooling system. Wish I had the link to it. More work than I want to put into cooling, but I'm still fascinated by it. I have a peltier unit to keep my cpu cool, but I'm not hardcore enough for water.

Re:Great

[TastySiliconWafers]

That's all fine and dandy until your fish die because the water picked up toxic substances from the metal heat exchangers or your computer fries because algae growth clogged the tubes.

Water Cooling

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!

This post is certified by me, Anonymous Coward, and is a 100% authentic beowulf cluster troll post. The reader is hereby authorized by me, Anonymous Coward, to imagine a beowulf cluster of the items, in whole, or in part, or in any combination thereof at the sole discretion of the reader, in the related news story to which this post pertains.

Since someone is going to say something about...

[buffer-overflowed]

Since someone is going to say something about running water through your system and how you don't trust it, etc. etc. etc.. There are alternatives out there such as flourinert that have similar thermal properties but don't carry charges well. More expensive then water + wetting solution, but gives MUCH more peace of mind if you happen to be a paranoid person. Here's a link to an OC forum with a story or two on how the product behaves as well. A better article on watercooling (to the insane extreme) can be found here.

Aaron Cherrington

[YourMissionForToday]

When will you break free from the dingy shelves of your local mom-and-pop computer shop? When will you stop bragging about those l33t cracks for PC games you got off USENET?

When, when will you know the touch of a woman?

Why use a cooling system?

[seanscottrogers]

When you can boil fresh eggs for free?

FREE DiVX Codec???

[Anonymous Coward]

Gator (Gain) is not running on my system...f that..

Is there a FREE codec out there?

Re:FREE DiVX Codec???

[GutBomb]

look a bit lower on the page for the non-pro free version. it took me a sec too, but found it.

Re:FREE DiVX Codec???

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing is free if it's loaded with spyware. Care to dance with the Devil? Then Gator is your friend. Oh...how *evil*.

Re:FREE DiVX Codec???

[Toraz Chryx]

There is a version without _any_ spyware.. at least, there was last time I bothered to check.

Wait I've heard this one before..

[wbav]

Didn't some software genuis say, that if we made cars like we make software, they would cost $20 and go 1000 miles to the gallon?

I believe the response was that if we made cars like we make software; we'd expect the car to crash twice a day, and to troubleshoot we'd ask the owner to remove and re-install the engine.

slashdot

[Anonymous Pancake]

I noticed they fixed the goatse.cx javascript shit real fast... so why the fuck haven't they fixed page widening bug yet?

SLASHDOT SUCKS

JAMIE IS A FAG

Watercooling not so great?

[PhysicsGenius]

I'm a geek. I like fast cars, fast women and fast computers. However, I'm also concerned about the proliferation of pollution and greenhouse gasses.

Let's take watercooling as an example. Heating water breaks the molecules apart. This is OK (up to a point) for pure water, but nobody actually uses pure water. Instead we use tap water, full of lead, acidophilus and other harmful toxins. When the heat from the overclocked PC causes those toxins to be released into the air--whoa nellie, we have ourselves an EPA Superfund site in a bottle.

Of course, anybody who's even slightly concerned about the environment knows all the above already. The trouble is self-centered morons like this guy who think the rules don't apply to him or that "just one more overclocked PC won't hurt anything". So please, Slashdot, quit glorifying this destructive pasttime and instead advocate the right solution: a new PC every six months.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[wbav]

???
Unless you have somekind of leak the water should stay in the tubes, kind of like your car. The only time you have to add water is when some has leaked out. Also, if you read the guide, it explains if you do not use distilled (pure) water you're taking your computer's life in your hands if a leak does develop. Pure water does not conduct, where as tap water can.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Kredal]

I thought that most places suggested using bottled "mostly" pure water in a watercooling system, to keep from gumming up the pipes, and that furthermore, the water resides in a closed system, so that no harmful chemicals (or even H2O) is released into the atmosphere...

I seem to remember another water cooling guide on TH that has the water in a radiator at the top of the loop, with a big fan blowing room temp air through it to cool down the water, then it was pumped back over the processor (which shouldn't be running hot enough to boil water in the first place).

In effect, you *should* be able to run antifreeze through the pipes, and be perfectly fine as far as the environment is concerned.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Rasta Prefect]

This is beautiful. All you wannabe slashtrolls out there - this is it. This is what trolling was meant to be. Subtle, Plausible and reasonable enough to leave you in doubt. PhysicsGenius, my hat is off to you.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[GutBomb]

yes. and boiling that same water on your stove will also emit much more in a shorter span of time. EVERYONE, STOP BOILING TAP WATER!

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Russ Steffen]

Heating tap water releases toxins? Holy crap, I'm going to have to buy a bunch of biohazard stickers for the old Mr. Coffee.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[esper_child]

And should the antifreeze actually boil you get a nice pretty smell and a very sweet residue on things (not that I have actually tasted antifreeze :) ).

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[DarkHelmet]

That's right! If you want to overclock while being friendly to the environment, buy:

Evian Natural OVERCLOCKING Water

Just imagine the niche market. Especially considering how close Silicon Valley is to Haight & Ashbury in San Francisco. This is it. This is finally a way to get those damn hippies happy.

Evian Natural OVERCLOCKING Water

By the makers of Nuts and Gum and BeerNuts Gum

Coming soon:

Evian VITAMIN ENHANCED OVERCLOCKING water
Let your processor go the extra mile with this slick, new overclocking sports water.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[billcopc]

What about the Ron Popeil EasyCool. Not only do you get the EasyCool, but if you call now we'll give you a second EasyCool FREE, but that's not all; you also get the Super Shammy, with 20% better absorption to clean up the mess left behind by the EasyCool. "You might fry that chip, but you won't make a mess!" CALL NOW!

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell? You and me have vastly differing views on what the word 'subtle' means, methinks. Your post's parent had all the mindnumbing subtlety of a sledgehammer.... I often feel that I am too old for this website.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Technician]

Unless you have somekind of leak the water should stay in the tubes, kind of like your car

Unfortunately most flexible plastic tubing will pass water through the plastic. Some water will seep into the plastic. When it reaches the outside, it evaporates. Soda Pop is put into a special poly bottle (PET plastic) because high pressure gasses migrate faster through most conventional plastics causing flat sodas in a short time. To see this first hand, fill a plastic (HDPE) milk jug with water. Glue the cap on. Make sure it's sealed. Mark the water line with a marker or put it on a scale and record the weight. Stick it in a dark corner for a couple years and check it again.
Your joints may not leak, but that doesn't mean it will not loose water. It will.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be an American if you think that was subtle or plausible.

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Anonymous Coward]

If acidophilus is a toxin, why is it sold in health food stores?

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[nichomoff]

Perhaps we should stop heating water then? No more cooking or hot showers?

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Rasta Prefect]

Subtle of course applies of course in relationship to slashdot. Without the last sentence he could very well have been a legitimate enviro-kook......

Re:Watercooling not so great?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true and think about all the Super nast/dangerous chemicals that are added to the water by the water treatment facility in cities.. Toxic chemicals like Chlorine(Cl2) and Flouride(as Hydro-flouro-silicate acid) along with Alum and at time Activated carbon. and some have even added Copper Sulfate to the water!(The HORRORS!) all this added under the thin veil of making water safer to drink.

Remember a really earth-friendly human will drink directly from the rivers, streams, and lakes..

A case of ameobic-dysentary never really hurt anyone. Just like these rumors of those other waterborn diseases.. it's all Government LIES!!!

(NOTE: if we didnt have the above chemicals used for the treatment of water (Including using Ozone) we would'n have pesky people walking around with immuno-deficient diseases... they'd all be dead way before they were diagnosed.)

Noise

[Anonymous Coward]

With a decent pump a water cooling system is practically silent.

Re:Noise

[packeteer]

this is the main reason water is cooling is best... many new cpu's run MUCHJ hotter than ever before as transistors are crammed in there... personally here is what i do:

1. UNDERclock the cpu
2. run a cooling system on passive dissipation (no fan)
3. enjoy silent computing
4. mumble mumble
5. profit (ok im working onthis one... im considering starting a service where i go to people's houses and tune their computers... like for real cheap make it quite and a little faster)

Oh great...

[Zen Mastuh]

Funny how computers are beginning to develop like the early automobile industry

Great. I guess we'll all be anxiously awaiting the arrival of Ralph Nader's new book, Uncoolable at Any Clock Speed.

Re:Oh great...

[Anonymous Coward]

What will that book be about? If a computer geek doesn't put the right air pressure in his tires, his computer will flip over?

Why does every TH article end up on Slashdot?

[doorbot.com]

Why do people even submit the stories? The Slashdot editors will probably post them anyways. Not to critize TH; it just seems that whenever they post a new article, it shows up a few hours later on the Slashdot front page. Maybe Slashdot needs a special "Tom's Hardware" topic or even it's own section (th.slashdot.org).

Re:Why does every TH article end up on Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

poor you.

boo hoo.

Make the music stop!

[metalhed77]

good guide on hardware for watercooling, but the video has the most atrocious trance as the background music that's been heard since 1999!

Re:Make the music stop!

[srvivn21]

I found that odd myself. Here is a whole article claiming that the computer system is "nearly silent", and that the movie is available in "three languages".

It turns out that you never get a chance to "hear" the silence of the computer, and the only words are written descriptions of what the components are. IMNSHO the video is a complete waste of bandwidth for anyone who has put together their own computer. I was hoping for something along the lines of a documentary, or (dare I say it?) an infomercial at the worst. What I got was a waste of my time. Bleh.

flourinert does not solve everything

[lingqi]

flourinert can build up static charges running through the tubing; and whet the charges get high enough, ZAP and there is a hole in your tube. (yes i speak from experience)

now, if you say "oh well at least it does not conduct electricity / short out my board" -- well, there is two problems with that: 1) thermally, your CPU will die, fast. 2) flourinert is damn expensive (~500 US / gal last i checked) -- having it leaking out of a hole onto the floor is not a good idea; 3) it is environmentally hazardous -- not that you might care -- but i'd figue i would mention it instead of having people wonder why there are locallized holes in the ozone layer above their neighborhood.

Re:flourinert does not solve everything

[Anonymous Coward]

uh, flourinert is a blood plasma substitute as well. You can drink it. For the price, it's pretty close to Dom Perignon. But, the Dom is better tasting.

Re:flourinert does not solve everything

[Jerf]

That's OK, though. Localized discontinuities in the ionic ozone layer can be repaired using a inverted phase burst of chronometric thermions.

Technology saves the day again!

Re:flourinert does not solve everything

[esper_child]

I think I will call your buff. That sounds suspiciously like technobabble that comes from the lower reagion of the body. Do you write for Star Trek as well?

My computer's hot to the touch

[Vought 28]

Another solution is to blow cool air over the hot parts, cooling them naturally and safely. No, you don't need to use the computer in a wind tunnel, just several fans / cold air guns / natives waving bannana leaves.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

The cost and time of setting one of these up

[papasui]

Seems to offset the actual value / use of having a system that runs 50 mhz faster.

Re:The cost and time of setting one of these up

[davidmccabe]

For most people it's not about faster. It's about being quiet. Very, very quiet.

Dishwashing liquid?!

[Skreech]

After the tubing has been installed and the cooling circuit has been closed, turn the pump on, then pour the distilled water into the header tank until the entire system is filled with water. In order to break the surface tension of the water and prevent air bubbles from forming, add a drop of dishwashing liquid.

original page

I can think of something better to use than dishwashing liquid. Red Line Oil makes something called Water Wetter which does the same thing; Its primary function is to lessen water's surface tension in cooling systems in cars. From Red Line's webpage on the product (with advantages relating only to vehicles removed):

BENEFIT SUMMARY

• Doubles the wetting ability of water
• Improves heat transfer
• Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis of all metals
• Provides long term corrosion protection
• Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
• Prevents foaming
• Complexes with hard water to reduce scale

You can get a bottle of this, put a little bit in with your tiny computer cooling system, the rest in your car's, and you'll have better cooling all around. And this stuff prevents foaming, rather than promoting it like dishwasher liquid.

Re:Dishwashing liquid?!

[vortexf5]

You can get a bottle of this, put a little bit in with your tiny computer cooling system, the rest in your car's, and you'll have better cooling all around. And this stuff prevents foaming, rather than promoting it like dishwasher liquid.

Another option that could easily be found in any household would be laundry detergent. It should also lower the surface tension of the water, and laundry detergent is typically formulated to foam very little.

Larry's guide to water cooling

[larry bagina]

Find a pool, pond, or river, preferably with lots of hot girls around, then jump right in!

Quiet

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a water-cooled dual Athlon (water-cooler by Swiftech) and am very happy with it. For me, it's not about overclocking, it's about noise control. Because the water pump is practically silent. The only noise I get from my system is the power supply fan and the case fan, and these are both pretty quiet (courtesy of Enermax, which makes the quietest power supply I've ever heard). I was so tired of listening to the whine of high-RPM CPU cooling fans, so I decided to build a nice, quiet system. Water-cooling has turned out to be quite satisfactory for me.

Too cold?

[silverhalide]

Sometimes you gotta be careful with this cooling business. Had a friend who hooked up a peltier to his computer, but got it *too cold*, and ended up condensating on his board and corroded all his little sensistive surface mount components! I keep asking him why he does it, I think it's an addiction or something. He never did anything past seeing how many thousands of frames per second he could get in Quake.

Re:Too cold?

[silicon_synapse]

That's something you don't have to worry about with water cooled systems though. Unless you use peltiers or refrigeration of some sort, the water will stay at a couple degrees above room temperature at the most. With only radiator cooling it's nearly impossible for the temp to fall below room temperature which is required for condensation to occur.

Re:Too cold?

[zorander]

I did some experimenting with peltier junctions...essentially they're difficult to manage. Many of them will destroy themselves if just turned on and left to die. One made for processor cooling may be different, but as I remember from my work with them, you had to have one helluva heat sink to draw heat away from them in order to keep them from getting hot on both sides and blowing up...In practice for cooling a cpu they may behave differently, but i remember them being very easy to kill (And having to build a special power supply to convert 120VAC to 16VDC@12 amps (to run four of them at capacity)...)

Brian

Humm...

[Anonymous Coward]

manufacturers should take a different path and bid adieu to the game of Gigahertz and Megabyte numbers.

Last time I checked they were using Gigabytes?

To think that IBM spent millions to get rid of it

[SysKoll]

It's rather ironic that IBM and other large systems makers have spent millions of $$ to get rid of water cooling in their systems. The good old water-cooled TCM (Thermal Conduction Module) of IBM's 1990 mainframes was a very impressive piece of mechanical and thermal engineering. If you worry about the heat generated by a single CPU, imaging what it was like to cool one of these babies.

TCMs included spring-loaded copper pistons to maintain good thermal contacts on the chips. The thing was a plumber's nightmare. I remember an IBM field engineer who had to improvise a pipe soldering the night before a computer show because 1) there was no water cooling at the stands (geez, what an oversight), 2) IBM had to require a fire permit to let the plumber light a soldering torch, 3) by the time the fire permit came in, the unionized plumber was home while the on-salary, no-family-life engineer was getting ready for a looong night. Those were the days, when computers were freakin' huge and had to be watered like thirsty dinosaurs.

As a side note, the need for TCM was considered a nuisance. Customers released a collective sigh of relief when IBM dropped their fast but power-hungry bipolar technology in favor of cheaper, easier to cool CMOS chips. It's a shame that Intel's sloppy designs force an entire industry to go back to watering the dinos.

-- SysKoll

Wonderful

[vsprintf]

I can see it coming. Every 30,000 teraflops I'll have to haul the computer to Bendover's Quick-lube and have the coolant flushed or the warranty will be void.

Sorry Rasta, I give it an 8.2

[xant]

Definitely loss of points at the end there. He "tipped his hand" in the lingo. Granted, there are many slashbots who think nothing of buying a new PC every 6 months and wouldn't even notice this, but most people would recognize this as "hyperbole"--a sure sign of a troll.

On the other hand, the results speak for themselves.

Re:Sorry Rasta, I give it an 8.2

[Kredal]

yes yes, I got 0wned.

But, I put PG on my friend list, so I can be more careful in the future...

*cry* my first time feeding a troll.. I'm so naughty...

Koolance...

[RandomCoil]

Koolance has been building this type of system for quite a while now. The parts are almost identical except Koolance incorporates the radiator at the top of the case with with 'blowhole' fans moving the air and a digital temperature readout. Their more recent designs are modified Antec/Chieftec/Alienware tower cases (you can even get them with a window... geez...). The original cases were somewhat more impressive as they incorporated a liquid-cooled power supply as well. One amusing 'coming soon' product on their website is a liquid-cooled 1U case. I keep imagining a whole rack of these units and one word springs to mind: waterfall.

Strange configuration

[Fuzzums]

Maybe I missed something, but this picture suggeste the heat of the processor is used to warm up the harddisk (or the other way around). Either way I think this is not what you want.

Still, it looks VERY cool.

Compressed gas cooling

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how feasible it would be to use a compressed gas for cooling instead. They make those air duster things, which is just air compressed into a liquid. You could use cans of that to fill the system up. Once it's all filled, it should bew just like moving any other liquid around. If you get a leak, nothing gets wet and nothing blows up.

What do you think?

Re:Compressed gas cooling

[FueledByRamen]

I'm probably wrong about this, but here goes...

That might work for about 30 seconds before it exploded. It would be very, very hard to charge the system first - pour gas into a header tank? You'd need some special high-pressure lines and a bit more structually sound attachment system than a couple of zip-ties. The gas, once it expanded from the heat, would blow apart the system long before it reached the radiator.

Very, very quiet

[Anonymous Coward]

And hunting rabbits.

Re:To think that IBM spent millions to get rid of

[NovaX]

Its not Intel's "sloppy designs" which have caused water cooling to come back into style. Actually a big reason most people do it, such as myself, is because we get sick of the noise, which is not entirely the processor's fault. Its beautiful to have a PC that's like any other applience, you don't notice it unless you need to use it.

On the engineering front, every modern good performing processor needs cooling. The number of transisters per cubic cm is enormous and increasing, so we're getting bigger chips using more energy and thus producing more heat. This is where a new technology must come and replace it, just like CMOS did with bipolar. Circuit engineers only pay attention to heat during the design phase if its a criteria (which isn't so much on processors) and is mostly left to those in the fabrication stage to optimize and fix. Only in the last few years has any decent energy saving technology started to become popular and important to designers, but in essence until heat is a limitting factor designs will focus on higher performance through novel techniques and providing developers with better tools (instruction sets).

Re:Since someone is going to say something about..

[Jezral]

If you are worried about water, then get some actual deionized H2O.

Won't carry charges even if you submerge the computer in it, as long as you don't dump salt or any other material that will ionize.

-- Tino Didriksen / Project JJ

Even has cup holder

[Midnight Thunder]

Funny how computers are beginning to develop like the early automobile industry.

They even have cup holders. And I thought that was a CD tray - doh!

Benchmarks?

[UnknownSoldier]

The watercooling looked pretty neat. However, I didn't see any benchmarks for how much faster you could overclock your CPU if you went the water route. Anyone have any links for overclocked P4s & AMDs comparing and contrasting water cooling vs tradional fan coolage?

Re:Benchmarks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I hardly ever run benchmarks but my cel 600 is running at 1100 with watercooling and a peltier.

BTW The transparent tubes arent a very good idea unless you are SURE your water is very clean/unpoluted, cause alges will grow in there. The distilled water TH uses is classically not used because it doesnt cause shorts but because it keeps alges from growing. Distilled water will once it comes into contact with for example your motherboard be poluted immediately and thus Will be able to short your pc.

grtz Asha

Redundant mods are getting.... redundant

[DJ Uptime]

WTF is up with all the redundant mods in this thread? Is this the velvet-glove bitchslap, Taco?

Claims of silence

[shird]

I read a lot of claims about it being a silent cooling solution, and yet the parts consist of a pump and a large fan attached to the radiator. Not to mention the already existing HD and power supply fan. These things aren't exactly quiet in my experience.

Then again, I'm guessing that because of the watercooling, airflow isn't of as much importance so it can be stored away in a closed compartment, with perhaps only the radiator sitting outside your window or something. It would be nice to see a hack which cooled the power supply too, though perhaps its not real wise to have water running through such a high voltage component.

Re:Claims of silence

[mindstrm]

Contrast it against large heat sinks with huge blower fans.. very noisy.

COmpared to your average PC, this is no quieter.. even a bit louder.

In the overclocking world, it'll be relatively quiet.

Re:Claims of silence

[AppyPappy]

The best method I have found is to blow air on the heat sink from outside the box while sucking that same air out of the box as quickly as possible. That requires a tight seal on the box(and fans) and some quiet fans doing the blowing and sucking. Hmmm...Sounds more like a brothel than a PC case.

CPU fans tend to be the loudest but experimenting with cones over the fans can quiet them somewhat. But you have to keep air moving around in the box. If you have it done right, you can thump the box and dust will blow out of the outtake fan.

Remember, tight seals. Control the flow.

Thanks but no thanks...

[DJ Uptime]

I prefer the Lesser B.C.T.P. Version 2 (or any later version, at my discretion).

Pretty Basic, No?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone really need a guide for water cooling??? Are there that many people out there who don't know how to cool water???

(Hint: use ice)

Net gain or loss?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, so you lose the CPU fan noise, plus possibly the graphics chip and chipset fan noise, but you gain the noise of a water pump, of water rushing around tubing, and one (slightly quieter) fan for the radiator. Plus you still have the PSU noise.

Maybe I missed it, but it would be nice if the article had some objective data on the resultant noise levels.

S.

Re:Since someone is going to say something about..

[Anonymous Coward]

bah. use properly distilled water. as long as you don't contaminate it too much, it won't be conductive either. it's the dissolved ions that usually cause conduction in water.
(since you're covered in salt, don't expect distilled water to save you in the bath if you drop a hairdryer in it)
you'll find it's a good deal cheaper than a bucketload of mineral turpentine. you'll also find out that they use distilled water to clean computing components after the fabrication process is done. any excess will be great for cleaning dust off components.

doesn't kill toddlers when they drink it either. :)

ashridah

Re:Since someone is going to say something about..

[chrylis]

One simple problem with this: dust. All sorts of stuff flies around in the air, and as anyone who's left a system running for three months and opened it knows, it collects in the system. And any skin oils or other deposits left in the system might compromise the non-conductivity of the water.

perhaps somebody here knows...

[Anonymous Coward]

why is it that in all these liquid coolant systems, everybody uses water, a conductive liquid. do any of you chem eng's out there have suggestions for non-conductive liquids with appropriate thermal qualities?

Re:perhaps somebody here knows...

[TastySiliconWafers]

The reason why water is used is because of it's exceptional thermal characteristics. Water has a heat capacity (at atmospheric pressure) of roughtly 4.2 J/g K. It also has a relatively high heat of vaporization (2.26 kJ/kg) and a boiling point above your target operating temperature. It's cheap to replentish. You can easily obtain cheap pumps that are designed to pump it safely and quietly.

Some heat capacities of common substances for comparison:

methanol, 2.5 J/g K
ethanol, 2.4 J/g K
ethylene glycol (antifreeze), 2.4 J/g K
vegetable oil, 1.7 J/g K
mercury, 0.14 J/g K
air, 1.0 J/g K

Obviously, to make this all meaningful, you need to take into account the density of the fluid at the operating temperature and thermal conductivity into your calculations to translate it all into a volumetric flow rate. You also need to consider whether or not a phase change is to be involved (and if it is, how you're going to deal with the associated pressure). Many substances are unsuitable for safety & health reasons (methanol, ethanol, etc. are a fire hazard.... mercury and methanol are quite poisonous). When you get through looking it all over, water is often used because it works without all kinds of complications in the design of the system. Your main concern with water is making sure it doesn't leak onto your mobo. If you use a halothane refrigerant, you're probably going to have to deal with phase changes (thus requiring a noisy compressor) and you're going to have to make it leak-free anyway (or you'll be shelling out big $$$ to replace the expensive refrigerant you lose).

Re:perhaps somebody here knows...

[Anonymous Coward]

Water is not particularly conductive (of electricity). It does have a high heat capacity, so-so heat conductivity and tremendous solubility. Since it can dissolve most salts it tends to be commonly found in conductive solutions. But pure water is not a good conductor of electricity (particularly at the electric field strengths in a PC: 12 Volts across millimeters is not a high field).

that is not a problem here . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

. . .since this uses a radiator to transfer the systems heat to the air, much like your car does. However, this is not a great solution IMHO, as (a) there will be substantial fluctuations in air temp and (b) the cooling fins on that radiator will probably become clogged with dust very quickly. I doubt if that radiator was designed to run continuously without cleaning, like you would expect in a PC. If you are going to go through the trouble to do this, you might as well pick up a used laboratory circulating water bath (this would mean you do not have buy the pump). These baths contain both heating and cooling elements and will very accurately maintain a setpoint over a wide range of temperatures. Depending on the climate where you live, you would set the temperature with enough of a safety margin so that you do not fall below the dew point and condense water vapor from the atmosphere on your MB. Where I live right now (in Virginia) I think that would be about 1/2 degree below the ambient temperature. It is like a damn steam room here.

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you guys keep supporting this plagiarist by linking to his site?

Anyone tried this with a Mac?

[jcsehak]

Has anyone out there overclocked and/or water-cooled a Mac? This article has got me interested to try it, but I'm pretty afraid I'll screw it up, especially since all the articles on it seem to be PC oriented. I was mostly interested in getting rid of the fan, so it'd be quieter, but the article mentioned successfully overclocking a pentium 4 to 3000 mhz (apparently 3100 is the limit), and that got me drooling. I wonder how much a g4 can be overclocked?

True MPEG-4

[Anonymous Coward]

And when are those DivX people gonna get with real MPEG-4 instead of their own proprietary sort-of-MPEG-4 thing?

Alcohol is not just for drinking

[hsouders]

Does anybody take Physics anymore?

Alcohol is much better than water for cooling and has other nice properties (ie no bacteria or algae).

Yeah. Back in the day, my dad (true story) cooled his Model A hot rod with alcohol.

-=>Funk Master=-

Re:Alcohol is not just for drinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course hot pure Alcohol could be a slight fire hazzard as well.

Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the good sport attitude!

You make a good point...

[Mashiki]

Actually going back and back, the original cars were cooled with simply water, which then moved onto alcohol(not that type) :), but moving farther along we get into the ethylene glycol(still alcohol) with older cars(green stuff), and a newer type of antifreeze(orange stuff), is NOT the same as the old green stuff, chemicaly it is diffrent and mixing the two gets you something along the lines of a paste consistancy, that is if it doesn't cause your plastic rad to be eaten alive or disolve your aluminum engine block.

In anycase, the only draw back I can see using the green stuff is it might eat the tubes and pump, the orange stuff might work better since it's designed for aluminum and plastic(modern cars), and isopropyl alcohol will most definatly eat the plastic/rubberish tubes and micro pump your using.

And remeber the golden rule of auto-body and engine building. Do Not Mix STEEL and ALUMINUM together even with a fluid. The aluminum will break down into a powder called aluminum sulfate. And the steel will start to grow aluminum sulfate crystals. So watch the connectors, and watch what the cooling block is made from. And what is used inside the pump for parts.

Re:You make a good point...

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind the most common metal in watercooling is COPPER. Most fittings are also made of BRASS. So you have to be aware of all the metallic properties of what you're working with.

In the end, the most performance for a relatively safe liquid has been determined to be a water+windsheildwasher fluid mix (or even straight windsheild washer fluid).

Personally, I use evaporative cooling (no radiator... drop the water above the tank with a fan blowing across it) so it's just water for me. Most of the time, when people are looking for a liquid other than water, it is to enjoy a reduced freezing point.

Re:You make a good point...

[Mashiki]

Very good, I'm pleased to see that you actually did not read what I wrote.

Lather rinse repeat, please pay attention next time.

And while you are correct that the most common material used in heat sinks and such is copper, most fittings are made from either steel, or aluminum. Being brass is getting rather expensive to use. Not to mention pumps and such, have you ever looked at a pump? They usually use plastic or steel, with aluminum pins.

Yeah, I know a few things after all I only used to build cooling systems for a living.

Re:You make a good point...

[Anonymous Coward]

I did not deny aluminum and steel were common in the system. I mentioned brass because that IS the most commond fitting metal for tubes (assuming you use plastic tubes, such as come with automatic ice makers). My point was that albeit your excellent emphatic approach, you had missed out on two very common metals in watercooling systems (especially copper).

My system uses the cheap route. A $20 pump from walmart (the metallic part that comes into contact with the water is grey... I have no clue as to the actual metal, not to mention the magnet (straight iron?) that surrounds it to drive it. The tubes are straight icemaker tubes mentioned above and the cold plate is a lapped copper sink with brass fittings welded into it. It's custom-made from a friend.

Of course, you knew that.

Re:You make a good point...

[Mashiki]

Very good points, the main thing is I ignored the common elements copper and such, mostly due to the fact most people know this. I suppose next time around I'll remeber to be slightly more clear.

A Person Paper on Purity in Language

[Anonymous Coward]

A Person Paper on Purity in Language

All I need now...

[krytron_switch]

Is to find a surplus Liebert chiller. And a raised floor to hide the pipes. And under floor smoke detectors. And a Halon system. And some hardware to make a man trap for the basement stairs. And 2 or 3 CE's standing around drinking coffee....

I miss those 1980's data centers

Re:To think that IBM spent millions to get rid of

[SysKoll]

True, it's not just Intel's fault.

I am fully aware of the constant progression of power density within processors. It's a problem in PowerPC and graphical chipsets, too.

But Intel is in a unique position to tackle the PC cooling problem from a system-wide point of view. Consider this: Intel is one of the largest motherboard suppliers in the world. They sell chipsets, mobos and assemblies. And they never started designing a system-wide cooling solution, in spite of owning many of the critical parts (CPU, bridges, minority stake in DRAM makers). No other actor is in such a position to set standards. Not Dell, not Compaq, not AMD.

That's why I believe Intel's relunctance to tackle this problem is plaguing the whole industry.

Thanks for your answer,

-- SysKoll

Static?????

[FrankDrebin]

I know, nobody actually grounds themselves with a static strap when putting together a PC. But in this movie they handle the CPU with about as much care as your car keys. Either they are lucky or did the video with a dead CPU. I try to use a little more care to prevent frying a new CPU and losing a few hundred bucks.

THG doesn't understand how water pumps are rated

[bbc22405]

From the article: A note from the THG lab: because the pump runs in a closed water circuit, the pressure head has no influence.

Nice try, but no cigar. When the manufacturer specifies the amount of flow for a given "pressure head", they are telling you how much flow you will get when pushing the water a certain distance uphill. While it is true that your water goes in a circle, and thus not really uphill, the resistance from those skinny hoses, pipes, elbows, and other fittings will have (for a given flow rate) the same effect as some amount of pressure head.

If you could choose, you would choose piping that would have as little resistance to flow as possible. Less resistance to flow lets you use a smaller pump. A smaller pump generates less heat. And that would be that much less heat to remove from the case and dump in your room.

Air Cooled

[Anonymous Coward]

And if we learned anything from Volkswagen,
its that air cooled engines rock when
compared to h2o.

zack
'72 Westfalia
'58 Beetle
'78 Thing

Re:Air Cooled

[s10god]

Never even heard of one of those overheating....

SAME ENGINE in all of those.... only thing that changed was the displacement.

ALL FU**ING TROLLS SUCK COW GIZZ!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

You all must be the biggest losers on the planet.

Zip-ties?? Are you nuts??

[jerkychew]

Ok, I just watched the video. It was pretty interesting, although the Euro-trash music kinda gave me a headache...

Anyhoo, I noticed that some of the tubes were connected to the nipples with plastic zip-ties. Zip-ties!!! Are you guys INSANE?

Let's see: I spent ~$800 for the parts, hours of planning, and hours of time assembling the parts, but I'm gonna use 10-cent plastic zip-ties??!

What's wrong with these people??

2 words: HOSE CLAMPS. They're metal, and they are a hell of a lot more reliable than those little pieces of plastic you're using.

Sigh...

Re:Zip-ties?? Are you nuts??

[DirkDaring]

I was thinking the same thing! I guess ol Tom didn't have the time to go buy a couple.

Why bother??..

[bryans]

Why bother spending the extra money for those extra few MHz when you could've just bought a faster CPU, where the differential cost would be the same as installing the water cooler..

It's like putting a $15k turbo+intercooler in your car for those extra bhp, when you could've got a more powerful model for $15k

Alas if you don't overclock and your system has too much heat because of all the components, then you should've bought a larger/alluminium case for better heat conduction and install extra fans. There should be adequate airflow around the case, and the room should be well air-conditioned.

Duh, go back to school.

Re:Worst Case Scenario - microwaves

[bryans]

Someone with a 2.5Ghz radio wave transmitter (c.f. microwave ovens), is placed next to your water inter-cooled system.

BOOM!

The answer you didn't wanna hear but may save time

[randyest]

Much, much less.

In general, any RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing device, such as those in Mac and Sun boxen) CPU has fewer stages of logic between registers than a CISC (Complex ISC) CPU (such as x86's). Fewer stages of logic means a higher ratio of wire (metal) to logic gates (silicon) in any given path. Signal propagation delay time in modern semiconductor processes are dominated by wire delays -- silicon gate delays are almost negligible. Also, signal propagation delay time varies with temperature strongly in silicon, but weakly in metal. So temperature effects make a bigger difference to max clock rate on a CISC vs. a RISC. Said differently: there's a smaller window of min/max conditions (PVT = manufacturing Process, Voltage, and Temperature) under which the a RISC CPU will work as intended vs. a CISC CPU.

Note to zealots: this should not be construed as (or used for) taking sides in the inane Mac vs. PC vs. whatever thing. It's about CPU design philosophy and implementation.

The reason Intel (or AMD) sells a CPU as a '1.7GHz' model instead of as a more profitable '2.0GHz' model is that some path of logic between registers in the chip won't work at 2.0GHz under the warranted PVT conditions (for commercial products usually: published MIN-MAX process, +/- 5%, and 0-100 degrees C transistor junction temperature - with a case and built-in cooling that usually allow for -10 to 50 deg C ambient temperature). Cooling (or increasing the volatage -- you can't control the process after the chip is made), is more likely to improve a CISC path than a RISC path (because of the wire to silicon ratio).

So the manufacturer can more easily certify the RISC device for operation at higher clock rates. But that also leaves the user with less room to tinker around, should s/he/it be so inclined.

Sorry for the long post (I've been thinking about this sort of thing in a roundabout and thinly related way for quite some time). Your question fell right in front of my hypno-train.

Sorry I have pure water

[Anonymous Coward]

I get my Pure H2O as the waste from my fuel cells. These cells run the computer.

Water cooling has gone pro...

[silentbozo]

The off-the-shelf system that Tom's Hardware demoed is looks great... too bad I can't afford it! :P

noises are your friend

[Anonymous Coward]

--a few times I have detected firewall hits by my hard drive making a "chirping" sound. Kinda neat.

Ya, I know it should be NOT making sounds, it's the one I got....

--if I had a way...

[Anonymous Coward]

--if I had a way -mm, theoretically speaking now... to PASSIVELY cool cpus much better than anything on the market, what's the odds it would be used, ie, I could make some bux? Would the geek factor of no moving parts and no electricity required be so low as to make it ignored?

Near as I can figure in production it might run 20 or 30$. Hardly no geek factor to it though, pretty plain jane looking

Re:The answer you didn't wanna hear but may save t

[jcsehak]

Thanks for the long post. It was really helpful, if only to fund my inactivity (or keep my funds inactive--a good thing, to be sure!).

Air conditioning and condensation.

[iamroot]

Using a refrigerant cooling system for a PC, like a modified air conditioner, tends to work pretty well.
The coolant is at a much lower temperature, so it takes longer for it to warm up to the point where your PC fries if the compressor fails.
Secondly, it can be used to lower the temperature even more.
Unfortunately, there is a very serious problem with it. The temperatures are below the dew point, and cause condensation. This will eventually short out/damage the boards.
I've though of one way around that problem though, what if you basically freeze dried the computer? You build a case that is airtight, and won't crush under a vacuum. Then pump out most of the air/moisture with a vacuum pump. Lastly, you fill the case with CO2 or something. You get rid of the moisture, and with it the condensation problem. Its also a whole lot cheaper than Flourinert. The only problems I can see are during the vacuum stage. I'm not sure if there would be any problems with the chips exploding or components leaking in a vacuum?
I might try that sometime and see if it would work. I think the biggest problem would be making the airtight case.

Re:Air conditioning and condensation.

[ColaMan]

You wouldn't need a vacuum - all you do is make it air-tight with a vent at the top - fill it with CO2 and the heavier-than-air CO2 will displace all the air out of the box. Seal the vent, and you're done.

We used to do a similar thing with nitrogen when welding on truck fuel tanks, but we kept a constant flow of gas going in. You made damn sure that the tank was full of inert gas before striking an arc on the tank, that's for certain.

Oh , you might want to put some silica gel in the bottom of the case to adsorb any residual moisture....

Re:Air conditioning and condensation.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's rather difficult to make floppy and CD drives air tight and also all those I/O connectors would be a problem. It would be a lot easier to seal up the biggest holes with duct tape, put some silica gel in the bottom of the case and refresh it regularly.

Re:Air conditioning and condensation.

[Anonymous Coward]

Annhydrous copper sulfate

It's white. I strips water from the air. When it turns blue it's time to heat it up and drive all the water out of it again.

No need to evacuate the case, and no need to make the case *perfectly* airtight.

Reversal

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought posters were just trolling when they posted about the EE flaws in some of Tom's previous analyses but I see now that his understanding of chemistry and physics is bad too.

Re:Since someone is going to say something about..

[Anonymous Coward]

Won't carry charges even if you submerge the computer in it, as long as you don't dump salt or any other material that will ionize.

Galvanic cell.

Google Cache

[Anonymous Coward]

Here.

additional advantages.

[leuk_he]

first google the link.

Lets see, what more advantages are there.

-Makes your car go faster.
-Makes your pc go faster.
-Is a perfect Glycol replacement....
-Prevents your pc from freezing.

Wait.. yes this is a replacement for glycol anti-freeze. I would not just add it to the water, no way to tell what this will do to your waterpump.

I think you watch too much tv at 4AM. Or you just made one small troll.

Re:additional advantages.

[berck]

Let's see. It's not really a Glycol replacement. It doesn't provide anti-freeze protection. It DOES provide the lubrication necessary for a water pump to operate WITHOUT antifreeze (which contains lubricants). IF you run straight water in a car, water pumps die eventualyl because of no lubrication. Watter wetter fixes this. (why would you want to run water instead of water/antrifreeze? Ethylene-Glycol isn't a very good cooling liquid as compared to water.) In any case something designed to provide the necessary lubrication for WATER PUMPS in a car probably do more good than harm to your little aquarium pump.

Re:The answer you didn't wanna hear but may save t

[timma]

If it helps, I run ALL the big fans (cpu + 3 case) @ 7v instead of 12v in my PC tower which makes it quite a lot quieter - with no overheating problems. Not sure how hard this is with a MAC, if the fans are powered off molex connectors very easy. see http://www.procooling.com/articles/html/quiet_fans _-_power_control_met.shtml for details. (I'm in no way affiliated with the website). Bear in mind though that I live in England which is a cold country! If your machine room/office/whatever gets hot, I wouldn't bother.

Not for the easily amused

[LenE]

Water Wetter is powerful stuff!

Once, I was talking to another engineer who told me about his discovery of this product. Apparently, a couple of german engineers were paying him a visit, and one had a bottle of this stuff.

There was a small pond (about 60 foot in diameter) beside his company's office that had a few ducks calmly swimming on the water. The german engineer poured half of the bottle in to the edge of the pond, and the surface tension broke across the entire surface. The ducks sunk into the pond and drowned before they had a chance to try to fly away!

I know this is hearsay, but I don't doubt this guy.

-- Len

Re:Not for the easily amused

[berck]

While I'm sure this makes for an amsuing story, Bernouli would, I think, complain loudly.

This guide is awful

[thehomecat]

Aside from being one overworked ad for Innovatek (not the best kit, but Tom sure thinks so), Tom has no idea what he's talking about.

Distilled water isn't used because if it leaks it isn't gonna cause a short...cause it could. There's all kinds of conductive things on your motherboard and the like that like to dissolve in water. Distilled water is used so that you minimize the battery effect between the radiator and waterblock (assuming one is of AL and the other is CU) and to prevent corrosion as much as possible (tap water and the like has all kinds of things that will work away at the waterblock, radiator, and tubes). Most people using a closed loop watercooling system have pinkish water cause they put Watter Wetter in it, which reduces the surface tension.

The location of the radiator DOES NOT MATTER. It's much more important to have the radiator getting it's air from outside the case and ideally blows it back outside the case (with duction or something similar). Radiators are frequently put at the top of cases because it's the most convenient place to put them...they aren't in the way of anything when they're sitting above the PSU.

With regards to his putting the block on the CPU:
"You should not use silver paste because the copper contact plate is very flat. "
That has to be one of the most inane comments I've ever heard. You WANT to use the silver compound because it will actually TRANSFER HEAT. The Silicone stuff is ok if you're not planning on doing great cooling, but silver is much better. The flatness of the block doesn't matter AT ALL in the choice of thermal compound. Silver is still better at being a TIM than silicone even if the core has better contact with the block for the simple reason that there are still gaps, and the micronized silver in Arctic Silver easily fits in them (as it's designed to do)...and will provide better heat transfer than the white goop.

You don't put the tubes on AFTER you've put installed all the parts...you do it FIRST. Putting the tubes on AFTER you put your blocks on is a VERY good way to destroy your computer parts as you're putting uneven pressure on them, and sometimes a goodly amount of that.

You also put them on first so that you can BLEED THE SYSTEM OF AIR. If Tom thinks that dyes can reduce the amount of thermal capacity of water, what do you think AIR does. There's a reason we're using water here...it's tons better than air at transfering heat, heck, air is used as an insulator in windows. So putting AIR in your system is going to GREATLY reduce the cooling capacity of your system.

Then there's the price. You get to pay 200 USD for a minimal cooling solution "kit" that you could get with separate parts for 150...or cheaper. With a better waterblock, too. AND with HOSE CLAMPS! God, zip ties are such a bad idea.

Re:This guide is awful

[harborpirate]

Alright, maybe the guide does suck. Why not list:
A) Kits you think are better
or
B) What parts you would use that are better
or both.

Its easy to say "this sucks" and leave it at that. The rest of us would like to know, if there are better options, what are they? The whole point of the kit is to make this sort of thing accessible to geeks like me who want to do a watercooling solution, but don't have the time to learn everything there is to know about pumps, tubing, etc - and don't want to spend the additional time trying to locate the best parts for the job. What we need is a list of parts, where to get them, and if there are tricky parts to the job, a short guide. I'd settle for a list of the best parts suited for this task though.

Re:This guide is awful

[thehomecat]

One kit that springs to mind is Swiftech's kit. I'm not really familiar with much in the way of complete kits, though, so there could be others that are also better.

And I certainly wouldn't say that I said "this sucks" and leave it at that. I gave reasoning for WHY the guide sucks. For the kit, I just said it wasn't the best, which it isn't. It's not too bad, though. Would probably be more effective in the hands of somebody that knew what to do with it, though. ;-)

mod this idiot down...

[berck]

You sir are an idiot.

And that's about all this post warrants. Except maybe a question of who the hell modded you up???

Sheesh! "heating water breaks up the molecules". What sort of "physics genious" doesn't even understand how BOILING works?

Troll, or simply incorrect?

[SurrealKnife]

Sorry... either he's lying, or the ducks died from something else randomly. Ducks don't rely on surface tension, they have natural bouyancy which is far greater in force than surface tension. In fact, removing surface tension would make it easier for them to swim, as since they break the surface of the water when swimming surface tension slows them down...

chill

[Skreech]

You obviously didn't read (or understand) the link you yourself provided to Red Line's webpage. No, this is not a replacement for glycol anti-freeze. Yes, you should just add it to the water. Pure water conducts heat a *lot* better than water+antifreeze. The best hot-day racing coolant is pure water and a bottle of this stuff. So long as your system is running well, you can't possibly overheat. First-hand experience talking, here.

Re:chill

[leuk_he]

Yes i did read the red line page. But i dot not think this product has any real advantages for water cooling in a PC.

-The temperatures are much higher in a combustion engine.
-Glycol is added for anti freeze to engines, not for cooling. wetter water is presented as glycol replacement.

For racing this wetter water probably is better than glycol. For ordinary cars or PC's this stuf is overkill.

Re:chill

[Skreech]

You don't understand. Water wetter is not a glycol replacement and breaking surface tension is useful at any coolant temperature.

Re:chill

[leuk_he]

Water wetter is not a glycol replacement

It must be me, but they are comparing wetter water/water with a glycol/water coolant in the link i placed before. Or is this just a case of marketing?

Re:chill

[Skreech]

It must be me, but they are comparing wetter water/water with a glycol/water coolant in the link i placed before. Or is this just a case of marketing?

Just because they're comparing the two doesn't mean one is a replacement for the other. Before, you'd run either water, or water+glycol. Now you add another variable, giving four possible combonations:

• water
• water+wetter
• water+glycol
• water+glycol+wetter

It only makes sense to compare them all. Also, I can tell that you think this is some product someone would sell on a 4am infomercial (cause you said so yourself). This is not the case, Red Line Oil is a trusted company, they make all sorts of oils for engines, transmissions and differentials. Racers use Red Line any time they can afford it. The closest competetor made by a well-known brand is Mobil 1 synthetic.

The product that *does* deserve your criticism is the "magical" stuff that you see when you walk into AutoZone or O'Rileys thats colored bright pink and in cool-looking plastic erlin-meyer flasks that promises to produce more power and stop your engine from smoking and make your abs firmer.

Trust me, Red Line is well respected in the automotive community. Or don't trust me, I don't care. But Red Line Oil is heavy duty stuff, not some magical frilly thing. Water Wetter is interestingly named, yes, and even the packaging seems a bit silly. But it's certainly not reliant on people's impluse buying.

Try using corn mash instead! REALLY!

[i_want_you_to_throw_]

Instead of water use corn mash! Operate a little distillery from your PC!

Use Seti@Home to crank out some extra cycles!

"I was running Distiller, and it wasn't Adobe".

JC

Call me old fashioned...

[Viper118]

But I just can't let myself have running water that close to my components. I'll take obnoxiously loud fans any day (i.e. my dual 120mm Deltas) over the thought of running water being millimeters away from my beautiful hardware.

Re:stem cells not the answer to life's problems

[MassD]

Using alcohol over water may give you some thermodynamic advantages. But there is one drawback... water doesn't burn. How confident are you that the system would NEVER leak.

All it would take is a small leak somewhere.... Heh.. if its in a well lit room, all you may see is your case starting to brown and melt.