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China: the New Global High-Tech Power
Andy Tai writes "This three-part news.com special report shows how mainland China has become the focus of high tech business opportunities during the global recession. The article compares today's China to 19th Century America as "a booming nation starved for products and driven by a new generation of entrepreneurs", points out China's "sheer numbers and ambitious work ethic are producing thousands of engineers--and U.S. companies are recruiting the best of them," and concludes "that this may eventually be known as China's high-tech century. " Another good article looking at China's rise as a global power can be found here."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't their culture spend several thousands of years as the most advanced on Earth?
Friends don't let friends use multiple inheritance.
China is _thee_ place to be, cheap workers, cheap engineers, cheap managers, cheap...
America has prices itself right out of business, and China is even cheaper then Mexico, which is where all the jobs went last decade.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
America has always been behind in technology compared to Japan. Since China is now taking off in the technology market, will America lag behind them also?
Sure, China has the largest potential market in the world for virtually any kind of product. They do have many people, but those people are going to have to acquire some disposable income before the potential market is realized for most of the things we want to sell them.
Hello CHINA:
How about getting the following the foundation for a high-tech economy?
1)-access to energy
2)-fair judicial system
3)-clean water
4)-enough food for its people
5)-uncorrupt governance
6)-educated people
7)-freedom of expression
No amount of friendliness towards business or incentives for technology will overcome these more basic barriers.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
I thought they would beat Mozilla 1.0 out the door - who would've thought the Lizard would have whipped it out first?
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
China has all of that, but misses one BIG part. A clear fair legal system where outcomes can be reasonably assured. Simple game theory will lead to the result that the lack of this will lead to a GREATLY diminished amount of wealth being generated. The oligarcy that runs the country and the lack of an independant judicary means that the generationof wealth will be forever hampered.
China is 10-20 years away from being a great power ... and always will be.
How many CENTURIES has this been predicted? Yes, China has a lot of people -- and always have had. Yes, China has a huge amount of wealth -- and always have had.
I think this has literally been predicted for a thousand freaking years. I'm not an expert on China, but obviously there are deep-rooted cultural attributes keeping them from expanding their influence in the world.
Wake me up next century when we make the same prediction that won't come true.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Lawyers?
We're exporting the technology, know-how, and capital for everything else to them already. There won't be anything (except lawyers) we'll have that they don't already make for themselves.
Gordon.
He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.
-- J.R.R. Tolkien
Anyway, back to persecution, so why they these people run to a country that was controlled by the British until 1901? The legacy of this is still apparent, see flag, see head of state.
Problem is... not being anti-British involves not being anti-English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh, you can't pick and choose.
China will have a strong economy if they have a successful business sector, jobs isnt what matters its how many small businesses and big businesses you have that matters.
The USA has alot of businesses, if you talk about jobs you are talking mc donalds, and yes mc donalds is in mexico.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Australia was actually created by people running away from Britain because of persecution.
:-)
Erm, no, I rather think Australia was created by plate tectonics.
And the encyclopedia I checked says Australia was founded by a bunch of British convicts:
"Oy! The boat 'it somethin', an' when we looked ova' the side, we founded it was land that we 'it! So we desoyded ta stay!"
So all you Aussies are the descendants of a bunch of filthy criminals!
"Yahoo Serious"? Do those words go together?
Indeed, I think Alex Chiu's insight can help shed some light on this topic. This is somewhat-lucid prose from his year-old /. interview:
"I think the Chinese government is doing a great job right now. I support population control. I think USA should do the same. If you want to have more than 1 kid, you should pay more tax. The enemies of China always use "human rights issues" to attack China. But if USA has 1.3 billion people, USA would have the same human rights problem just like China. You cannot expect so much freedom in a land of 1.3 billion people. Chinese government is doing such a great job that China not only feeds its own people, it also feeds most of the Russians. Most of the food imported to Russia came from China. You guys always talk about human rights. But why can't you guys mention about "government rights"? Chinese government has the right to do whatever it must do to protect China. That includes population control and the liberation of Tibet. Do you know that before Tibet was liberated, you can buy and sell slaves in Tibet? In the old Tibet, you can have slaves, you can marry 4 wives, but you cannot take a bath for 1 whole year, and you cannot meet a foreigner. You can skin your slave alive, and you can kill your slave when ever you desire. The entire Tibet is ruled by a bunch of religious idiots. You can't take a bath for the entire year, and you can't trade with foreigners. Cummunists don't allow that! Liberated Tibet and kick out that stupid Dalai Lama, whatever that moron's name is. You guys don't know how much Tibet has changed. Most families in Tibet now has electricity. TV, VCR, stereo, micro-wave, you name it. Everything's made in China! They have shopping malls and super markets there. There's stock market brokers there. In fact, Tibet is one of the most popular European tourist attraction of asia. If Dalai idiot is still around, you be buying and selling slaves there right now! Everywhere would stink like hell because nobody teaches you the importance of taking a bath. If you say Tibetans are not Chinese because they have their own language and culture, let me ask you this: Is Hawaii part of USA? Is Okinawa part of Japan? Okinawa people have different language and culture than the Japanese. So should Okinawa gain independence from Japan?"
If cheap labor were the only factor in determining the relative economic strength of a nation-state, the Romans would never have built and sustained their empire. Ditto for the Venicians, French, English, and Americans.
China is not *the* place to be. Just ask the Falung Gong. Just ask anyone who gives a fuck about freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, due process, or basic fucking human rights of any kind in China.
And from a business perspective, lack of these things, particularly in a world economy dominated by post-industrial persuits that require human creativity and unfettered access to information, is the kiss of death.
Sure, China is booming. But recall the USSR. Right up to 1989/90, many experienced Sovietologists were still predicting that the Soviet Union would allow only moderate reforms, and would certainly be around for another 50 years. That's the problem with a government with limited transparency - you never really know with any certainty what's really going on with the economy (or anything else for that matter).
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
All it took was a few new ICBM's aimed in our general direction to convince me.
I cannot believe that the parent to this post was modded up. Some of the above points are valid concerns, but others are problems of the past.
Of course, every time there is talk about China, someone has to bring up something about Human Rights. But give me a break, clean water? food? China has gotten past that stage a long time ago. Right now overnutrition and obesity troubles much of the population. As for the judicial system, fairness is a matter of opinion. In China, criminals are punished more severely than in the US. Corruption in the governance is a problem in China, but the same problem exists in every country. The USA, for example, is a prime source of governmental scandals. China is working on a more efficient education system as we speak. The problem with education lies in overpopulation. Think about it, China has more than four times the population of America, andd merely building more schools will not be able to solve the problem overnight. The curriculum in Chinese primary and secondary schools includes a much more in depth understanding of subjects such as math and science than that of American schools.
I guess my point is that although China's fundations are not yet perfect, it is getting better at a faster rate than any other country.
Ihave been to Japan more than once. Each time that I remember Japan has had some "technological" advance. The Last time I was over in Japan was before the release of Nintendo 64. I had a chance to play with the N64. I didn't think it was bad, except it was in Japanese, and I could only read alittle of it.
Japan is a country were technology thrives. Your right, not everyone can offord the latest gizmos in Japan, but can everyone afford the latest gizmo in America? I know I can't. Japan does get the majority of the technology before it comes over into the US.
I don't think that you have every been to Japan. Japan is a country were alot of people own a computer. Even some of the simple stuff people use computerized stuff to buy. You can even buy a bag of rice through a vending machine if you want.
People in Japan are quite rich, richer than you think.
The same reason hi-tech went to South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia. A minimum of infrastructure, enough education and cheap wages enforced by a repressive state. Boeing and Motorola love it.
. This sig unintentionally left blank. I meant to put something here, but I'm busy.
there's a reason for all these low scoring posts, it's because you guys don't know jack shit about china! hell, if you wanna brag about communism and how things are over there, why not actually GO there and see it for yourselves? on the surface it's not much different from the US, it's cot a capitolist economy, but the government IS corrupt and is practicly lead by the military. of all the people i've talked to in china, most of them get pissed when i refer to taiwan as a different country, sure they have thier bad parts, but that's ALL you people ever look at! GO TO CHINA! see the FSCKING place for yourselves and experience it before you babble on about all your bull shit! and to emphesise my point, i'll repeat my point, YOU PEOPLE KNOW SHIT ABOUT CHINA!
The Chinese government is unwilling to do that. People outside of China who hold anti-abortion beliefs may see their "one child policy" as immoral, but they consider it neccesary to prevent China's fast population growth rate from outpacing local food production. Also, the Chinese do not view a human embryo (fertilized or not) as a human being, as many "outsiders" do. This is the reason why China's biotech companies are expected to outpace American ones in the next 25 years, especially in the area of stem cell research. Unlike America, where Christianity-derived "pro-life" ethics have a major influence in governmental regulation regarding the bio sector, China does not. The "pro-life" and "anti-abortion" that were derived from Christian beliefs that affect biotech regulation America and other "Western" countries are virtually non-existent in mainland China, as Christianity is not the majority religion there.
As you can see, the "one-child" policy in China is neccesary check on population growth. In a study conducted in 2001 (found in Newsweek I believe), China's population is actually begining to decline as a result, leading to a reduced risk for food supply exhaustion.
We lag behind china in consumer tech, such as laptops and cell phones. Although we are wayy ahead of them as far as cutting edge, non-consumer technology.
One reason for this is that the U.S. culture encourages creative thinking more than Japanese culture. Japanese culture is very rigid as far as work goes. So anyway, we develop technology such as PC's and cell phones because we think more creatively. Then the Japanese take our inventions, improve on them, and make great consumer electronics.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
Just look at that map of the world at night. The places you see high lighting density are pretty much the places that are advanced. Pretty much it goes like this:
Western Civilization and Japan
Eastern Orthodox rooted Civilization (Russia et al)
That's pretty much it. Everywhere else is developing.
Granted, it is theoretically possible for China to pull something like that off, but the government is the biggest hindrance. Until there is some serious reform (i.e. eliminate corruption), I don't see China catching up within the next 50 years.
BlackGriffen
Slashdot recently had a post about Seoul as an example of broadband done right. "The Bandwidth Capital of the World" In that very same issue they have a article about how China is goin g to be the next big PC boomtown, With legend computers ready to take charge over some of the big boys like Dell and IBM With only 11 percent of the population owning personal computers, the market saturation is nowhere near the likes of the U.S. and the U.K. It will be interesting to see if Dell will end up dominating the market as it has in the states, or if Legend truly has the upper hand...
I love reading everyone's opinions here. It's good for a laugh. How many people here have ever been to China or even anywhere in Asia for that matter? (Reading a book in high school or college doesn't count - we are talking physically being there and having your own experiences). Everyone bases their opinions on their westernized view points without even having the slightest idea of how Asia works socially and politically. This is why you are all a bunch of fools. You run around pounding your chests about ButScratcher 2.0 not being open source and haven't a clue how the rest of the world works. India and China are going to take over the market for the development of software and all you fools are going to help them by giving away all of your work for free. And as for China not making money: Ever hear of Legend Computers? Maybe you should take a look.
All that is going to happen is China is going to pass laws so that the Chineese companies make all the money and the foreign companies aren't allowed to do much business there. And in that case, when China is selling hardware by the score with our free software and making all this money then your college degree in basket weaving sure will pay off as an alternate source of income.
In the U.S. there is Microsoft with the lead in software development. Everyone crys that they got it unfairly, but IBM failed with OS2. Sun just wishes they could be the next Microsoft but with all the money they have to spend on diapers and tissues for Scott McNealy they are hurting. Oracle is a waste of space. They should merge with someone. So all the while while we are tearing ourselves apart while the wolves are at the door.
So what is going to happen? Everyone is going to knock down the American companies while you fools cheer. Then Chineese or Indian companies are going to move in with free/cheap software and cheap products and everyone is going to buy them. Then...off to the the uneployment line. And the fools that will make it happen? You guys!
Why don't you guys just take the penguin's dick out of your ass, get on a plane, and go see the world. Believe it or not in the rest of the world doesn't operate off this "it's cool to be a rebel" counter culture where everyone who is unable to make something of themselves tries to make their mark by bringing someone else down. So do yourselves a favor...put down your copy of "I'm so intellectually superior weekly" and travel and explore. You'll be surprised and how the rest of the world (especially Asia) looks at the U.S. and what they'd like to do to us if they got the chance.
So keep up the good work guys and you'll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yet!
Right after the USSR went down the tube and the nuke threat was gone we should have bombed the living hell out of them, but noooo,
The nuke threat from Russia was never gone. Just because the Soviets were replaced by a democratic gov't doesn't mean the weapons dissapeared. They still have over 1000 warheads.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
i was tempted to moderate this as a flame, but decided a thought out response was better.
yes, the Chinese are commies. So what? Communism sucks, but thats their problem, not ours. I dont think they want us dead. Are they a competitor to us? Of course. When your #1 economically (which we are), everyone is a competitor.
Yes, the communist party is getting more rich, but sooner or later, democracy will take over in that country and the commies will get their butts kicked out. Look at South korea and Taiwan. They both used to be dictatorships, but in the past 10-20 years they become pretty democratic. Eventually i think China will too.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
Perhaps in name only. Their unification with Britain, in so much as it was a true unification, was for the most part, a good thing. However a good portion of that union appears to be either dictatorial or mere lip service, which is not a true union at all. Independent countries only serve to cause conflict. It's natural that when more than one person is involved, the second will be a potential source of conflict. In order to eliminate this we must become unified as one.
Communism sucks, but thats their problem, not ours.
Communism is dangerious because it activly encourages limited and dangerious thought towards those who are opposition.
Or, put another way;
they have nukes dude
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If you have 100% of the population working but the monetary value of that work doubles, that appears to be what is called 'economic growth'...but it makes no sense.
Envision this scenario:
China, over the next 40 or 50 years, becomes an enormous economic juggernaut. With cheap labor, high tech industry, and a huge population, China begins to develop most of the world's goods for dirt cheap prices. World consumer choice is at an all time high.
Because of the political system in place within the country, the average standard of living doesn't increase significantly.
People are not stupid. The Chinese people will see how the majority are not benefiting from the economic prosperity and attempt to change the political system. The government in place will put down initial unrest, but a civil war could occur the likes of which we have never seen in the world. The world economy that has come to depend on the Chinese government for goods.
With the ensuing economic collapse of China during the civil war, the world is plunged into a depression comparable to the late 1920's and early 1930's. The US Federal Reserve could not handle the removal of a huge portion of the world economy from the picture.
Following the civil war, a democratic government is created in China, and the economy becomes similar to many western countries, with a higher standard of living and increased wages. The economic playing field is now leveled.
Either that, or everybody nukes everybody. Whatever happens, I'll be dead by then. Oh well.
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
The nuke threat from Russia was never gone.
/quite/ enough of, few of the bastards apparently still exist) the ex-commies left and right, I doubt the democratic governemtn would have minded if we had done some restructuring in China as well.
Well yah, but while going around killing all of (well, apparently not
The old commie governemnt in the USSR sure would've minded though. ^_^
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There is no reason to believe that this is inevitably a long-term state. The US is a mid-size country (by population), and food, geographic isolation, and natural resources are becoming less and less important. And other countries are becoming as attractive as the US for skilled international workers.
If the US continues to have a leadership role, it will be because it earns it. But that means that US politicians have to give up on their assumption that US predominance is a right that Americans are born with. Isolationist policies like those we have seen over the last few years will likely simply make the US less and less relevant to international affairs.
yes, they do have nukes. However, I dont think the Chinese are insane enough to dare use them against us. Why? Our nuclear forces are many times theirs, numerically, and qualitatively. A single Ohio class sub (24 triton missiles, 5 or 8 Mirvs per missle depending on who you ask, check sources at bottom of posting) could problably kill 50% or more of the chinese population. And Chinese ASW capabilities are pathetic to say the least, so I highly doubt they could take out an Ohio before it fired.
m /970620-cr.h tm
. ht m
MAD (mutually assured destruction), while barbaric in concept, does seem to work nicely. Proof you ask? The Soviets, even during the blackest moments of the cold war, never launched a ICBM at us, knowing that the USA would retaliate with a massive counter strike.
The Chinese do not have the ability in any way to neutralize our nuclear forces, and for them to use their nukes would result in the effective destruction of their own country.
While the Chinese government and society are quite different from Western government and society in thought, morals, etc, I think they are logical enough to see the utter absurbity of using their nukes against the US.
Sources:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/slb
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/slbm/ssbn-726
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
...90% of the population is poor.
What an interesting euphemism...I seem to understand it destablized, but it was nothing compared to the Great Depression.
Please consult dictionary.com before making posts like these...Reproduce and breed have much the same meaning, unless you mean the Chinese don't have photocopiers.
a GDP appears to be an easy thing to change
acreage per person as America does, they could be FAT too.
And why do we continue to let them go pee pee in our coke? This must stop!
Mix that in with the arrest and murder of innocent civilians, the suppression of individual rights and liberty, the shooting down of an American plane in international waters, the not-so-subtle theft of nuclear secrets from Los Alamos, etc, etc - boy they sure are great! I think China is (or should be) our primary adversary in the world - they are against (and are afraid of) everything America stands for.
But there has never been a true communist goverenment, every govenment that has been called communist is just some screwed up version of it.
Communism might work one day. But it won't for a very long time.
"Go into the hall of mirrors and have a bloody hard look at yourself" - HG Nelson
#1 China is not a "commie country". Sure the government is dominated by the "Communist Party" and is the product of a "communist revolution", but that doesn't make it a "commie country" in anything other than name.
#2 Communism means a lot of things. In the case of China their brand is "Maoist", or used to be anyways. In traditional Marxism Communism is the end state of a historical process, the idea being that a strong State run by "the Workers" will be created first to restructure society in the interest of people (i.e. along Socialist lines). Eventually the State will "whither away" and the Communist utopia will be created.
#3 Marx anticipated this happening in an advanced industrialized Capitalist system. Then along came Marxist-Lennism (i.e. the Russian Revolution) and the Maoists. Both of which were lead by peasants.
#4 Soviet Russia and Communist China are both really bad examples of theoretical Communism or Socialism, they are both very unique systems which, though influenced by Communism/Socialism, are not at all true to their foundation. (Which perhaps says something about the feasibility of said foundation).
#5 Both Soviet Russia and Communist China have been hugely succesful if you measure success along the lines of literacy or economic growth.
They are C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-T-S
China now allows entrepreneurs in the "communist party". They are moving employees and businesses from the state sector to the private sector as quickly as possible. They are experimenting with village elections. In other words, they are trying to shed communism without imploding as the USSR did.
They want us D-E-A-D
Oh really? I've met hundreds of Chinese people and none of them seem to want us dead. I guess they hide their hatred well.
Why the HOLY FUCKING HELL are we selling them shit?
Mostly we are buying stuff from them, not selling to them. After all, we have money, they make cheap stuff.
ht after the USSR went down the tube and the nuke threat was gone we should have bombed the living hell out of them.
I'm just going to quit now. You're obviously not worth talking to.
Not to defend the government of China, but what about Singapore? They seem to be doing quite well with substantially less of these essential items than America.
China is the principal threat to US hegemony in
several ways. By 2010 pentagon force projections
estimate that they will have more nuclear warheads
targetted in the US than will Russia. The US is
legally bound to the defense of Taiwan against
attack. Because they abort their female fetuses
in large numbers (and female infanticide is endemic)
they have a large surplus male population at
cannon-fodder age. Their economy is growing at 9%
annually while the US economy is shrinking. They
have the benefit of the balance of trade, which
gives them increasing cash reserves, and a consequent
ability to manipulate capital markets.
Calling the CCP "Communist" is like calling
scientology a religion -- it's a gross abuse of
the denotative meaning of the term. The CCP
is a collection of warlord factions not unlike
the KMT in 1910, or any of a hundred other
examples from Chinese history.
The CCP may well be the most powerful organized
entity on the face of the earth today, and it
is utterly ruthless. It has imposed an hereditary
caste system on the Chinese people, utterly
crushes any sort of labor organization, in fact
maintains a gulag system of millions of literal
slave laborers, forces hundreds of thousands of
abortions on unwilling women every year, and has
a history of wild oscillations in policy that
result in mass starvation, brutalization, and
dehumanization.
Really, it's not very unlike the U.S. government,
except that it's violence is directed inward,
against the peasants and workers and intelligentsia,
instead of outward, against swarthy people who
have oil. Both systems represent an intense
concentration of power under the domination of
one autocratic ruler. Both systems use political
parties to exclude meaningful dissent. Both
systems manipulate law to funnel funds into the
hands of crony feudal barons. Both systems
exercise strangling control over the mass media
to preclude meaningful democracy.
But the Chinese nukes are pointed at *me*, while
the U.S. nukes are pointed *away*, so I prefer
to see the U.S. hang on to its global empire
for a few more decades, please.
Oh, and we are selling them shit. Such as VSAT
technology (Hughes/Loral) and missile technology
(McDonnel and TRW), thanks to the millions funnelled
by the "People's Liberation Army" into the
Clinton/Gore campaigns.
The chinese people are wonderful, and the
chinese culture is amazingly deep and beautiful,
as is the language. But the chinese state is
perhaps the single greatest source of human
evil on the face of this planet, and as such
it should be given all the respect one gives
a rabid predator. That dragon is not a mascot
or a pet. It breathes fire, and it is waking
up from a long sleep.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Nope, China gave up on communism about 20 years ago and began opening up the economy for real in the early 90s. My wife was quite surprised to see how much things have changed since she left.
They have huge problems to solve but the average Chinese is as communist as your average American (unfortunately they are also as credulous about what their government tells them as your average American).
Oh, yeah. In a recent visit to the center of China (Si Chuan province) I found that the Chinese people actually LIKE westerners (rare thing in this world). That's probably just because they haven't met many of us...
So, watch your step before you go spouting off about people you probably have never met.
There are some interesting articles on the Economist detailing the country's progress and problems if you want to do something more intelligent than yell "Commies! Commies! Commies!".
Personally I think a world where everything's American would be pretty damned boring. Unfortunately it looks like that's what our government wants.
The devil is in how you define 'prosperity' and for whom. The growth of the American economy might look great in macro terms and for large investors, but the loss of jobs hurts very much the poor working stiffs like me. You might point to unemployment figures as refuting the loss of jobs, but if you carefully consider in which sectors jobs were created and lost, you will see my point. For labor, skilled positions paying enough to support a family are few and far between compared to ten years ago and a world apart from 25 years ago. The sector that gained most positions is the service industry (read: unskilled or less skilled labor). End result is the greater separation between rich and poor, but hey, as long as Warren Buffett is happy, everything is ok right?
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
...Which is not based on how much money, how many lawyer and legal threat you use, and even sometimes who you "know". Sure. [Sarcasm off]. Mainland China may not be a "democratic" country, but let us be real. Our judiciaire system isn't perfect either,and their apparently fit the usage that their governement have of it.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
So it'll basically be like America right?
Get your Unix fortune now!
we ARE helping their elite communist class get even richer and more entrenched in power (ugh);
So it'll basically be like America right? Why are you still afraid of Communism?
I bet you still think that the people in China are "uneducated", yet you live in the country with almost the worst educational system in the world!
Get over yourself.
Get your Unix fortune now!
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/London/Writings/Streng thStrong/invasion.html
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
I bet you still think that the people in China are "uneducated",
._. )
:-D (or maybe they do, heck, darned if I know, LOL!)
Educated in what? Proper speak? Proper ways? Sure they are taught reading and writing, and hell maybe even the sciences, how many of them are taught unbiased political theory? Even in public schools teachers are free to ridicule the system (hell it is damn nearly encouraged, helps keep us plebs from getting to upset and all ya know.
How many of them are encouraged to think on their own, to progress up through life, to, hell, do be different?
Oh wait, I forgot, the Chinese government still has this nasty habit of SHOOTING those people.
Well at least we know Apple won't be having any Think Different campaigns over there anytime soon.
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But the Chinese nukes are pointed at *me*, while
the U.S. nukes are pointed *away*, so I prefer
to see the U.S. hang on to its global empire
for a few more decades, please.
This pretty much sums up all the knowledge mankind has accumulated about political theory.
PleaseMrGovernmentMan Keep My Ass Safe
Isn't everything else kinda secondary to being, err, vaporized / incinerated / turned into radioactive sludge / blown away to your component atoms / irradiated / dying of radiation exposure / and so forth?
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Oops, I left a space in the middle of the link. This is a good story read it.
The Unparalleled Invasion
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
Yes, they are Communists, but that doesn't completely make them inhuman. They can be inhumane, but that is another issue.
They may leave things out or discourage certain lines of thought - but they teach physics, they've long been intellegent people and there is progress there.
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A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
Not even close, although the US has a lead in GDP it certainly isn't the sole superpower. The EU zone as a whole actually has a larger GDP. Japan has a comparable GDP even in prolonged recession.
The US superpower status is military. The EU could match the US in military power if they were prepared to devote the same insane proportion of their budgets to military hardware. However doing that would cost the courtries their welfare state services which seems a lot to give up just to build weapons for the sake of it.
The bellyaching of the US right about China has nothing to do with human rights. The US right never gave a hang about human rights abuses by Pinochet, Marcos or the House of Saud. What they are really upset about is demographics and economics. It is a lot easier for a backward country to grow at 15% as it catches up than it is for a developed country to sustain 4% growth. The only way that China can fail to overtake the US in terms of economic power is to have a civil war and be broken into pieces. Same goes for India.
Bush and the cronies who control him could not give a damn about human rights or the Falun Gong. Their speeches about human rights and democracy are as hypocritical as their speeches on corporate responsibility - one of the chief Enron scam artist who bilked his division out of $15 million in bonuses while reporting $500 million is phony profits is still secretary for the army. If you think that fine speeches about democracy are worth anything I have a lorry load of Florida chads to sell you.
Military power follows economic power. China with a population four or five times that of the US could if it chose sustain a military the same size should it choose to do so. The militarist faction of the right can only understand prestige and power and cannot imagine that any country that has the option of building a superpower status military would give up the opportunity.
Fortunately most nations don't have the same inferiority complex that drives the US right. China, Germany, France, Britain have all done the empire bit and don't need to do it again.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Looks like CNet avoided reporting the serious dangers like an economic collapse and future nationalization of American investments.
I guess it takes a while for the real scoop on China's "golden economy" to hit the lazy U.S. press
I tend to agree with the above. I haven't worked with lots of Chinese developers (born and raised in China, sometimes educated here, sometimes there) but let's say between 5 and 10.
Last year I participated in several rounds of developer interviews at a company I used to work for. We had a number of Chinese applicants, all immigrants. Two things stand out in my recollection of those interviews: none of the Chinese showed any desire to move on to managerial positions (the traditional "where do see yourself in 5 years?" question), and it was difficult to get them to mock-analyze a hypothetical software problem.
Small pool for statistical analysis, but I sure got the impression that it came down to "we'll be happy to do what you tell us to do".
I'd be hesitant to say much more about any differences. If I were to say that Chinese, IMO, are typically well-suited to be competent technicians rather than engineers (in _this_ field), programmers rather than fully-rounded developers, I'd be confronted with the fact that I have to say the same about a lot of the homegrown product, too.
Don't all chinese citizens have to configure their browsers to go through:
block-free-speech.proxy.china.gov ?
Live web cams
Your arguments about who could or couldn't be a military superpower are beside the point, as are your comments about whether human rights in China are an issue to the US government.
I agree with you about Bush and his ilk. But the fact is, over the past decade, there has been a huge degree of domestic dispute in the US about how we should deal with Chinese human rights issues. Is engagement a better means of influencing their behavior in that area, or is economic punishment?
China's armed forces hover at around 2.8M active personnel, while the US forces stand at about 1.3M. Include reserve forces, and the Chinese military balloons to well over 4x the size of the US military. So in fact it does choose to sustain a military of the same size (larger, actually).
I understand that you're upset about American military, economic, and cultural hegemony. But to chalk it up solely to an "inferiority complex" is a bit childish, don't you think? I agree with you that the US could stand to curb its military expendatures quite a bit, but as history has shown, power abhors a vacuum. The moment the US disengages from a region, someone else will step in to assert control.
None of the countries you mentioned gave up great power status willingly - their empires were wrested from them.
It's convenient having the US as a scapegoat, because while they're lording it over you, you can snarl about how overbearing they are, and if you get in trouble, they'll still be there to save your bacon. I guess memories are selective. Folks remember Pinochet and forget WW I, WW II, the Marshall Plan, the Berlin Airlift, etc.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Yeh, the ming dynasty (not the emperor, i forget who it was who started it) cut itself off from the world. Built the great wall, etc.
Before the ming, China was way ahead of Europe and the middle east in trading and stuff. By the end of the Ming Dynasty they were behind.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
People like you make me sick. Tell me, is your toaster out to get you too? Oh, and what about all those black helicopters you see flying around? Guess what, I fly one of them! Die commie bastard!
Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I.
No, thats true, a lot of them went to Canada as well. Its been fairly well established that the North American free trade pact has benefitted Canada and Mexico moreso than the US.
If cheap labor were the only factor in determining the relative economic strength of a nation-state, the Romans would never have built
WHAT? Are you not familiar with the concept of slavery? The Romans didn't pay their workforce, they whipped them. The same can be said for the south in the US prior to the Civil War. Wow, you are demonstrating an astoundingly bad grasp of history here.
China is not *the* place to be. Just ask the Falung Gong.
The US is not *the* place to be. Just ask the Branch Davidians.
And from a business perspective, lack of these things, particularly in a world economy dominated by post-industrial persuits that require human creativity and unfettered access to information, is the kiss of death.
How do you presume to state that Chinese citizens cannot be creative? Microsoft does much of its research (some of which lead to MP4) in China. You're just in denial now, offering up ridiculous reasons why everywhere but the US must fail.
The responses meander off into staw-man territory but don't acknowledge economics.
Some, not all, programming jobs are going to go to China, India and Russia. Deal with it, its already happening.
I disagree. Big Business wants tight governmental control over the people so their toes aren't stepped on, and loose control over themselves, so they can do what they please. This means that with the money they're making, they can afford to set governmental policy through bribery (even more easily than in North America) and the people, who are unable to assemble or speak out about the businesses fucking them over are going to be put to work.
You don't need people with freedom to have a strong economy. If you chain research scientists to their desks and demand that they work, you can squeeze enough work out of them to make it worth your while.
And don't forget the lesson of Hitler's Germany. He turned a broken state into a real world power, and he did it without the whole 'freedom' thing. Nazi Fascism isn't any prettier than Communism.
The growth of the American economy might look great in macro terms and for large investors, but the loss of jobs hurts very much the poor working stiffs like me.
If you can't compete with an illiterate Mexican who is glad to not be working in the fields under the punishing summer sun, then perhaps you need to ask yourself why you are a "working stiff" after receiving a free high school education and the opportunity to go to college on the GI Bill?
I know a Salvadoran who lived in poverty, came to the US, worked as a maid ("low-paid sevice industry"), saved her money, and started a restaurant. Now she has a chain of three, and is doing quite well. Nor is she the only poor immigrant success story I know.
Save money - go to school, get the right skills - don't have kids until you can afford them. Very simple.
Anyone who is "hurting" should not have time to be reading Slashdot!
...doesn't Japan provide ALL of China's internet backbone connections?
Well, I have the unique perspective of a geek who just spent a bunch of time in China. It's an interesting place; plenty of contrasts, the bicycle rickshaw with a load of LCD displays outside Tsinghua university was one of them. The funny thing is the cities are capitalist and growing at a considerable rate. The countryside, where the bulk of the population is, is neither. And to move between the countryside and the city you need a visa. That sounds like a stable situation to me.
Already many of the cities have a comparable standard of living to the US; except it's very different. I stayed at the Holiday Inn in Shenzhen and enjoyed a view of Hong Kong from my towering hotel room; the city was beautiful. 20 years ago 6000 people lived in a fishing village there. They made it a special economic zone and now 6 million people live there. Not a bad demonstration of the power of capitalism.
I talked to some girls who worked at a nearby coffee shop. They were basically indentured servitudes for the coffee shop. They lived in a company dorm and the company gave them food. The company was, oddly enough, based out of Taiwan.
So that was a little strange.
The lack of a free press made people's view of america interesting; basically they had no idea of what life was like in the US and asked a lot of silly questions. But, they did have access to US movies, through the form of street markets or random guys on street corners who ask you if you want a DVD or VCD. So many people had seen US movies and were curious whether movies such as American Pie truely represented life in America.
Conclusions? China is still a third world country with some parts approaching second world quality of living. It'll be a while before they give us a run for the money. Smart, ambitious people in China still want to come to the US.
-Jay Thomas
http://www.uiuc.edu/~jthomas2
In the university where work as a research assistant, the majority of PhD students are from China and India. Chinese students invariably tend to be the best ones. It seems like by the time they come here they have already done A LOT of practical hitech research in their universities.
Because of this, (and because most of them don't mind being paid 2k$/month or less) a lot of departments actually prefer to hire Chinese students for tech projects.
Many of them will go back to China once their studies are over.
It is also worth considering that for each student that makes it to the US, maybe 100 will stay in China.
And, as the article says: "Hundreds of universities with strong tech departments have been created."
Is this enough to say that China is headed towards becoming the place where hi tech is conceived and grown ?
I think that, IF these government-funded policies will go on, it will be just a matter of time (maybe a couple of generations, maybe less
And btw, it seems to me that they are very inclined toward the sharing of knowledge and information,
giampy
We learn from history that we learn nothing from history - Tom Veneziano
You must keep in mind that many of the folks you interviewed were born and raised in China, and have now been injected into a completely foreign environment. They probably don't speak English too well, and that is a major hindrance to elevating to a managerial position. They probably came to the United States to give their children better lives.
My father has an M.D. and Ph.D., but refused to take on managerial/project lead positions at a major biotech firm - because the salary he got was sufficient (along with stock options) and he got to spend more time with me.
I am now pursuing a B.S. in EE at a top engineering school (whatever those rankings mean, heh), and have every desire to excel in the workplace and become a manager/project lead/etc. Plenty of work experience here (writing code, not flipping burgers). I am economically self-sufficient in America (I was born in China) at age 18. I decided to do this because my parents worked hard for their lives here and I don't want to be a parasite until I'm 24. They deserve a nice, early retirement.
You gotta keep it in perspective. Ask those interviewees if they've got children, and where they expect their children to go to school.
In other words, ask them where they expect their CHILDREN to be in 20 years instead of asking them where they want to be in 5 - it's sort of a moot point in the eyes of an immigrant family.
That's the idea of immigration - picking up your family and moving for infinitely better hopes of success down the family lineage, not simply selfish desires to abandon your progeny for a six-figure salary and a company car.
Of course, this only applies to the first couple of generations. After that, smooth sailing should be predicted...
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
We don't have a secret police in anywhere near the aspect of China. For example, since 9/11 we have discovered that the FBI could not even listen to a chatroom or look at a web site without probable cause. That's a secret police? Get serious.
The CIA is not allowed to operate inside the US. If they had, they might have been able to stop 9/11.
BATF... that's getting a bit closer. If you wanted to really come up with a secret police, you should have mentioned DEA. But even there, they are not a political police.
Be serious... don't you know the difference between the operations of a secret police in a police state and a law enforcement agency in a free country? The difference is not minor. It is VAST. I am not going to try educating you on the issue... it would take too long.
You can use the N word and you won't get arrested and sent to a "re=education" camp. You may get harrassed (unless you are black, in which case you get a free pass). Idiotic politically correct schools might kick you out (unless you are black).
Property rights, like any rights, are not absolute. You are referring to putting a highway where your house is. That is called "eminent domain" and it does not allow the government to take your property without just compensation. But you are right in one respect... the left has diminished our property rights more than they should have been - mostly through taxation and environmental laws which do not offer compensation for public use of our property.
Criticize Israel? Are you serious? Don't you even read the media? Much of the US media has been significantly anti-Israel for a long time. The New York Times, the leading print paper, is an example. And if you want to criticize Israel, you can call a radio station, buy an ad, rent a lecture hall, or put up a web site. Nobody is stopping you. In fact, many people have done so. Go to google and you can find dozens of anti-semitic hate sites located in the US which not only criticize Israel but blame Jews for every ill in the world.
Compare this to China, where if you criticize the government you can be executed. You won't get a fair trial. Your family may be put on a black-list and ruined economically.
It is amazing that you cannot see the dramatic difference between China and any western country, when it comes to freedom. The US may not be perfect by your standards, but it is extremely free by historical standards and compared to almost everywhere else in the world.
The only good weather is bad weather.
Y'know, it never ceases to amaze me how geeks who deride ignorant end-users and others who simply spit tech-buzzwords ape the same behavior when it comes to anything outside their immediate sphere of knowledge. I don't think I'm the first to posit that there's such a thing as a political geek, and I think I qualify, so it's roughly similar for me to read any post on China here as it is for anyone with computer literacy to wander the archives of "Computer Stupidities." (if that site is still extant) China does have an emerging middle class, but also a hyper-expanding upper class, and a stagnant and simply huge lower class-set. Disposable income--as well as power, water, most other basic amenities of life-- are present in China, and the country is simply Geared to modernize and make up for lost time. This is not to say China is a threat to the 'States. Hardly. That's like saying the U.S. was a threat to Britain as we caught up to, then surpassed, their pre-eminent place on the global stage. They don't want to f--- over the U.S., they want to be a peer of the U.S., to achieve for their citizenry the standards of living that are present in the most advanced states, because that is where China has historically been (for, oh, four-thousand contiguous years of recorded human history; I seriously think they're a great example of an actively evolving static governmental structure when viewing dynastic transtions and reigns) and it is where China wants to be again. Russia dropped the ball when the power void opened and there was no one to fill it except organized crime and those who retained power, influence or money. China's transition, while mired in rhetorical bs, is more gradual, allowing for systems of infrastructure to develop and take root. If y'all didn't know, recently China's wireless network supassed the U.S.'s usership. At least according to CCTV-9 and the economists (Westerners all, mind you) they brought on.
But what do I know. I'm just a poli sci major. Why trust me if you don't trust a coder on softwa--oh, wait, you do.
-An American living in a Chinese city that is neither the true boonies or a coastal town. --and, Yes, they Do exist. You can't fit 1.25-1.4 billion people in a country without having copius mid-sized cities. It ain't another world, just another part. *sighs*
I can't compete because labor is becoming more and more a commodity on a broad 'global' scale. I can't compete with someone who is willing to work for minimum wage in a sweatshop (here in San Jose) doing E/M assembly for instance, living 12 to an apartment just to take the money and support their family back home. Don't fool yourself, the labor market is not sustainable for them either. You have a choice of either living in poverty here, or becoming migrant labor.
As far as education, not everyone can work your IT job. Remember that (by definition) half of the population has an IQ of 100 or less. Are these people condemned to compete with sweatshop migrant labor because they cannot complete a higher degree? The free high school is no longer sufficient to provide an acceptable standard of living.
I know a Salvadoran who lived in poverty, came to the US, worked as a maid ("low-paid sevice industry"), saved her money, and started a restaurant. Now she has a chain of three, and is doing quite well. Nor is she the only poor immigrant success story I know.
Ahh the great American myth. That Salvadoran woman surely employs a number of people at marginal subsistence levels so that she can live more comfortably and thus poverty is perpetuated. Not everyone can be a restaurant owner or the equivalent. There must always exist labor to staff the businesses, labor will always outnumber non-labor, and if the standard of living is forced further down by the introduction of sweatshop labor, bad bad things result.
Anyone who is "hurting" should not have time to be reading Slashdot!
Listen to what you're saying! Is leisure a luxury? Is the weekend a privilege?
For full disclosure, I did receive that free high school education, and I am using that GI Bill for which I spent years in the military, you're welcome.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
I'm sorry but isnt it thew same old story about the salvadorian maid u always tell. its getting old.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
I wonder where you american get ths information about China. I recently watched an AmericaN movie called " the red corner" or something and nearly laughed my ass off. I live in Russia close to chineese border and have been to China quite a few times and can assure you that chineese can express their dislike of governmetn pokicies and corruption quite freely, atleast in the streets
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
If so, that's a very strange definition. People like to believe they are middle class when they're not though...What do you need a propane tank for anyways?
For the rest, there's the Laogai.
But then, your sig gives away the real point of your post. It must really burn you up to see Russia coming into it's own as a Western power, eh?
That's a widely-disputed claim.
You singled out my example of the Roman empire as proof of my ignorance of history, but my comment was that if cheap labor were the only factor in determining the relative economic strength of a nation-state, the Romans wouldn't have had an empire. And I'm not sure about the relevance of your comment about the US South prior to the Civil War. The South underperformed the North to a huge degree specifically because they used slave labor. It was only after the Civil War that the American economy, no longer dragged down by the Southern plantation economy, was able to truly modernise.
Just ask the Branch Davidians.
I'm not going to apologize for the US government's handling of the Branch Davidians standoff. But it's specious to compare the Branch Davidians incident with the clampdown on the Falung Gong. They are completely different in scale and cause. It's also instructive to remember that while the FBI was acquitted of wrongdoing, the repurcussions from the event have led to inquiries, a storm of debate, and changes within the FBI. There is no such internal debate regarding handling of the Falung Gong in China, because the system prohibits it.
I don't make any contention that the US is even remotely perfect, or that it's the only place to be, or even that it's going to maintain hegemony forever. But I do believe that whatever nation-state overtakes the United States will only do so on the basis of a social structure rooted in respect for the individual.
China is making huge strides. They have tremendous industrial and high-tech potential, and smart, hardworking people. That's obvious. But the Soviet Union had those same advantages, and their inability to reconcile their technological progress with the squelching of free thought made their experiment doomed to failure from the start.
It's my belief that the Chinese system of government will have to evolve if the country is to ever approach, much less overtake, the US economically.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Come on ,have you ever been to China?You'd better try a trip to our country,and I will show you a true China,a China much better than you thought!I know most of American can not even find China on the world map(no need to say Chinese language),but they keep talking this and that of China,stupid!
I have to say,most of u know little about the world!
We're talking about a country which imprisons tens of thousands of its citizens for political crimes ranging from belonging to a non-state-approved religion to wanting to have a second child, from calling for elections to buying or selling a bible, and you think I have to go there to know for sure I don't like the place? C'mon...
Except repeating words u heard from the others,how much do you know about China?You are really blinded!
Despite the claims of filthy parasites of capitalism like George W Bush, human rights violations still run rampant in China, and free trade with China is not going to improve that situation. If anything, it'll just force the Chinese slaves to work harder, and make the wallets of various American and Chinese tycoons fatter. What really needs to happen is for the despotic Chinese government to be replaced by a government that treats its citizens like citizens, not mules. There needs to be strict enforcement of human rights, the freedoms granted by the United States Constitution and strict enforcement thereof, a minimum wage on par with that of the United States, worker's rights on par with those of the United States, labor unions with power as in the United States, and so forth. As you can probably imagine, none of this will ever happen so long greedy as tycoons are at the helm of the Chinese government.
In summary, this is a Bad Thing.
The only way the typical /.er can pick up a chick is with a forklift. -- AC
Yeah, okay. Given that the Chinese government doesn't deny any of the things I just said (saying instead that they are justified), perhaps you can explain why I should believe that they are not happening?
His being in bed with corrupt big business executives was well demonstrated during the California energy crisis last year, when our Governor made repeated appeals to him and the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, only to be told to go screw himself, and in almost as many words. If that's not proof of his involvement, I don't know what is. It's also proof that he's a vengeful Nixon type. Probably compiled a blacklist of all the states that didn't vote for him. "California didn't vote for me, so I'm going to hurt them badly, and make a few hundred million bucks off their sorry asses in the process." At the rate things are going with the corporate corruption scandal, we'll find out soon...
The only way the typical /.er can pick up a chick is with a forklift. -- AC
The US is the 3rd largest nation on earth.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
When you see pictures of "the great wall" you are seeing the Long City built by the Ming Dynasty. An origional wall was built long in the past of tamped earth, but it, for the most part, no longer stands.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Too much pride and too much ignorance,that makes you blinded. Yes,China is still under control of the Communist,and I don't like it too,but that does not mean my country is nothing but "fascist".I talked lots of bad things about the Communist with people I know and I do not know,and I was never been put into prison or disturbed by any secret police.It seems that u really believe in things heard from the others. About your criticizing on China's one-child policy:Suppose your country has 1.3 billion people,do you ever think about what it means?Do you think you still can keep you live-style(yeah,I bet u are really proud of it) intact? Who tells you in China we cannot buy or sell a Bible?I have one,although I'm not a Christian.Most of Chinese people does not beleive in God,and so does people in other Aisan countries,including your model Democracy students such as Japan and South Korea. Here's a joke for you: The UN asks a question to children all over the world:"Please tell your own opinion on the food shortage in other countries." But no one can answer it.Why?Because the European children do not know what is "shortage";the African children do not know what is "food";the Asian children do not know what is their "own opinion"(that's the weakness of our education);and the American children do not know what is "other countries". Yes,I admire your country and your freedom,but that does not mean I admire your everything.I know you think you are the Empire Rome of today,yes,maybe you are right,but Empire Rome had the day to collapse,hadn't it?Do you ever think about why? and do you ever think why 9/11?why it happens to your country? You are blinded,and you will never be able to see in your way.
A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
Washing fish. while a little heplful. isn't very, because the fish is likely contaminated through and through. You do gut it before eating it? *remembers a Slayers episode where it finally dawns on Lina that the worm she used as bait was in the fish's stomach*
This leads me to the conclusion that the US doesn't want to catch binLaden, because then they'll lose their excuse for implementing these draconian domestic and international policies, plus the US threatening to veto the entire UN mission if US troops are forced to follow international human rights agreements. Clearly binLaden is protected by the US Government, he's their excuse for global domination. Mmmmmmmmmmkay.
A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
And plus securing US airports is pointless, in Nigeria you pay $50 and they'll let you past the security checks, pay $50 more and they'll let you on the plane without security checks, so you can hijack an international 747 and smash it into any building you want in any country you want. Securing airports is a worldwide requirement, the current efforts in the US only are half measures. Saying that next WTC can be prevented by just tightening up domestic security is just PR.
A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
Actually my sig reflect my dislike of the us hipocrasy and imprealistic policies not the western way of life. As far as China is concerned. Do you realise that Democarcy is not just a government system but a way of life and a culture onto its own? Americam way of introducing democarcy is simlar to throwing someone into the water and hoping they will swim, if not tough luck. Lucjkely after two coups of the early nineties the pokitical situation has stabilized and as you noted we are quickly regaining the status of a regional power atleast. I'm lucky to live in Russia but i shuddet o think of the people living in Uzbekistand and other formet debntral asina SU republick that have slipped into a stalinits like dictatorships, but I guess US is happy as long as they can estbalish mil bases there under exuse of war on terrorism, right? I atleast relise that quickly introdcing democary to a country of 1.5 bil ppl, mostly uneducated rural farmers with no democatic tradion would lead to a bloodshed of immnse proportions. China is going slowly but its on the right track.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
I think the best deterrant to terrorists hijacking planes is the fact that most of the passengers will likely be more than happy to beat them to a bloody pulp with their bare hands if they try. That's probably the real reason why there hasn't been a hijacking since 9/11.
The only way the typical /.er can pick up a chick is with a forklift. -- AC
Oh, and if they are legislated out of business, expect widespread civil disobedience, because it WILL be known to the public through the media. And once the media gets its hands on it and hypes it up, people will be PISSED. The media can be a powerful ally at times.
The only way the typical /.er can pick up a chick is with a forklift. -- AC
A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
The FBI doesn't want all your privacy - have you ever heard of the expression, "Ask for a mile, take only an inch and they'll be grateful"? Actually I don't know if this expression exists. FBI will ask for everything, and then they'll settle on having backdoors in all encryption algorithms, stuff that would make RMS pissed before 9/11, but this way at least you get to keep all your other rights - this is how they want you to see it.
Not in old Communist Russia. That's a very American idea echoed through the Courts, conspiracy circles and media. Remember that Bill Gates had to sit in Court and defend himself, penalty for a monopoly in the US is 3 times profit for the period of the monopoly, my guess is maybe a $20billion fine could have been theoretically imposed on Microsoft if Bill said the wrong stuff (shouted at the Judge). If someone tried to take from you the company you'd built up over decades you'd feel like your children are being taken away. Of course in the movies the assumption is that every monopoly always says the right thing after being advised and rehearsed by hundreds of the best lawyers. This keeps the Judges happy even in the event of gross violations so you need some power apart from law to regulate runaway corporations, just add Arnold Scwarzenegger to this and it's a wrap. Providing it's an enforced law in every country Microsoft sells in. Trouble is if the US legal system gives Microsoft too much trouble they can just move to China/Korea and fire all their employees in the US, and a big corporation can threaten any other country with this "If you implement those new child labour laws Unilever, Coca Cola, GM, Ford, etc. will move all our factories that pay 80% of your country's taxes to Nigeria, then when 90% of your citizens are unemployed they'll throw you out of Government"A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
What value would such a statement have? Are you arguing that these things aren't important?
We don't have a responsibility to anyone to force people to accept the form of government we believe in. We have a very important responsibility to our citizens to prevent other nations from attempting our destruction. That's all.
I'm sorry but isnt it thew same old story about the salvadorian maid u always tell. its getting old.
Well I know a lot of Salvadoran maids. One runs a chain of restaurants. Another works as a hotel maid, but she saved enough for her children to go to college.
A third works at home making empanadas for maid #1. She is probably the "poorest," having never learned English, but made enough to have a home theater with surround-sound and to raise her daughter. The daughter is a secretary and has married another recent Salvadoran immigrant who went to a tech school, and did DSLAM installs. He did get laid off recently, but produced local music parties in a club to make money until he could get back to doing telco work.
As Americans, we are spoiled rotten. We have no clue how rough the rest of the world is. We forget that our poorest people live better than most of the population of the world. We often fail to understand why we are part of the 1/6 of the world with a "western" standard of living and a "western" economy.
We don't even understand how we got here, the role of freedom, open markets, and property rights. We think we can simply legislate everyone out of poverty, when there is a long list of countries that tried that and failed. You can't fool the economy. The rules of economy are not well understood, but like physics, there are rules.
And we are going to have to understand how those with low IQs play into the future. I believe that most that have low IQs have other "intelligences" such as emotional intelligence. I've met people with less capability for technical thought than I have that have better business ability or better graphical thinking. Of course, we will soon be hacking our own DNA, so the long-term future might be more interesting.
What we do need is to ensure that there are market signals to encourage people to live up to their potential and allow them to maximize their productive value.
For full disclosure, I did receive that free high school education, and I am using that GI Bill for which I spent years in the military, you're welcome.
That's great! You are a success story that others can follow.
But E/M assembly is a godsend for those in other countries, compared to most of the other options. "Sweatshop" is an interesting concept, but you sweat a heck of a lot more working in the fields doing susistance or low value-add agriculture.
As to "sweatshops in San Jose" I will bet you that most of those recent immigrants are saving. They might not be able to get much better jobs for themselves, but they are making sure their children will be able to do better than they did.
They made a choice to move hundreds, in some cases thousands of miles for a better life. They risked a great deal. They are pro-active.
Your stopries about poor imigrants achieving american dream are touching but are an exception rather than the rule. I live in Russia near Chinese border and has been to China and US. I've seen poverty in tghe us, and I'm talking about regualt working class families not bums or drug addicts. Regardless of what you say working as a maid (or any other min wage servicejob) barely allows to pay for food and shelter in America. It may sound starnge but the lifes of millions of working Americans is not any difffrent from the lifeds of hundreds of millions poor Chineese farmers.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil