Slashdot Mirror
Ogg Vorbis For Hardware Makers
SerpicoWasTaken writes "CNET has a story announcing the release of Tremor. It's an Ogg Vorbis (Vogg Gorbis, Vogg Orbus, or Ogg [unintelligable] as pronounced by the various managers in my office) decoder that does not require a floating point unit and could herald the rise of Ogg Vorbis compatible MP3 players." Update: 09/04 21:00 GMT by T : Sorry -- this story's a dupe.
Well, we saw this story yesterday,
here
Tim must've been talking on his cell phone while posting this duplicate article.
repeat.
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
"could herald the rise of Ogg Vorbis compatible MP3 players."
Wouldn't that make them Ogg Vorbis players?
could at least just put it in a slashback.
What else can I say?
Oh this isn't Fark.com? I'll get my coat.
Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
Repost!
Life is like pants... fit in or you don't fit in.
Are the posters on slashdot not allowed to have this block on their page? Because a quick glance over there would have kept this from happening and taking up one of the 14 story slots for today.
There isn't much more to say about that. Timothy sucks. Boo!
The middle mind speaks!
. . . because .ogg files sound better than .mp3 anyway.
JWL.Freakwitch.net
Many manufacturers have said they are playing it safe and are waiting for Ogg Vorbis to develop a large following before they devote any development work to the format.
Just like Linux on the desktop... Let's face it, everyone has paid the MP3 licensing fees who are going to. Ogg is relatively unknown, hell, MP3 was unknown until Napster popularized it.
Its going to be a long while before we see iPod with Ogg capabilities... because there just isn't enough critical mass.
Tournament Management Online &
Dumbasses.
Thats the problem with geeks. They make words that no one can pronounce like
linux (lin-ucks)
GNU (Guh-new)
KDE
ogg (ogg)
Slashdot (/.)
1337 (One thousand, three hundred and thirty seven)
I've submitted that story... I can't imagine that others haven't. Maybe they think it's a joke?
MSNBC article
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
Some people don't use ethernet. Some won't use mp3. Making ogg vorbis and mp3 play nicely won't yank the thousands of diamond rios out of people's hands or get them to upgrade. As a practical matter mp3 is the de facto winner of this round of music standards, technical or legal merits notwithstanding. I don't have to like it, it just is.
guac-foo
Lots of petrified grits
Wow I just hate it when I see the future and then I go to slashdot and it's like I already read everything.
I hate Deja Vu
See the Pictures of the Flood of '08
oh my, not again!!!
another glitch in the matrix?
-- SouNerd.com
This comment is a duplicate of another one in this thread. Why don't you posters read the other posts before hitting "submit"? ... While you're answering that question, I'll go get a soft drink. Ahh -- diet doctor pepper. Who would have thought they could improve on the original? But they did!
Check yesterday discussion
When you get right down to it, MP3 is now a recognized and (mostly) accepted medium. Despite the fact that Ogg is a superior format, and open source to boot, I think it's going to be an uphill battle. Manufacturers aren't going to rush to develop for it, because there's always a fear of doing something new and innovative in a realm where there's already a clear and established niche. And people aren't going to want to get a portable Ogg player, because it's not what they're used to ("Ogg? What's that? A new virus?"). Not to mention ripping all their CDs AGAIN. And that's even assuming they owned them in the first place. If not (most likely), they'll be encoding from lossy to lossy. Most people I know aren't audiophiles, and only get 128, maybe 160 if it's available, so sound quality from a 128 MP3 to even a decent quality Ogg will be bad. It's a wicked circle, and it's a damned shame. I have a Zaurus, but it doesn't have NEARLY the battery life to double as a portable Ogg player. Here's to hoping someone in the portable music industry has some balls and decides to take a chance.
Am I the only one that thinks this is analogous to frog-compatible fish?
You could've hired me.
Well for me the choice is simple--if iRiver decides to make their players OGG compatible, then I'll buy one (I've certainly been drooling over it long enough)--if not, I'll stick with my Nomad II MG, which is none the worse for wear, considering it's going on 2 years old now.
I am fairly sure that they will add support, considering how friendly the people at Xiph are being with offering help to put the format in their players...
"I may be quite wrong." - Socrates
this site already broke the story. the slashdot editors should check it out sometime...
Acts@core.mailboks.com Acrux@core.mailboks.com Adam@core.mailboks.com Adar@core.mailboks.com Ada@core.mailboks.com
This should really belong to moderators-are-you-reading-tour-own-website dept.
have ogg hardware... called a laptop :) ... just wish I had more than 10GB total HD space
Does anyone else think that this release was timed especially well, especially with the release of the much published MP3 "negative" and unfounded press? Right on the heels of that article the sarcastic response.
Exceptionally paranoid or well played media match set?
I figure at some point, iPods will get mentioned. Then OS X (Jaguar, roar!) and then someone would complain about the 1 button mouse (ignoring that whole "I can just use my own 3 button USB mouse and it will work right off the bat!" thing). I'm just getting it out of the way.
It was first mentioned way back on March 25th, and more recently in Slashback. Don't feel dumb though, I submitted the MSNBC story too but only later realized that it had been covered. Still, you'd think a place like Slashdot would give it a bit more press.
I guess that's why it's 'news for geeks' and not 'news for greeks'
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
CNET has a story announcing the release of Tremor.
And Slashdot.org a top notch tech news site had the story yesterday. I wish that for once CNET would find their own content instead of always stealing it a couple days late from other news sites.
As long as the hardware device continues to play MP3s there is little risk to the manufacturer. They'll pay no royalties to use either the format or the Tremor software, all they need is a tiny amount of extra space.
Personally I am in the market for a portable Ogg player. In fact, I considered purchasing the Zaurus simply because it is the only portable device that I am aware of that plays Ogg files. However, I already have a PDA that I am happy with, and if I could get a less expensive gizmo that still played Ogg files I would snatch it up in an instant.
In short, the Ogg format wouldn't cost much to support, and it might swing potential buyers towards your device instead of a competitor's player.
Briiliant article with great comments, much recommended. They always have the best news first (apparently)
Well they can repost, so why cant i?
Seriously... you guys don't care anymore (the "editors"). We're getting repeats almost every day or at least every other day. If you guys aren't going to read slashdot anymore, then hell hire someone who can. Or maybe they'll do it volunteerly like you used to do in the old days. I don't want to bitch about slashdot. I like slashdot, always have in the roughly 2 years i've been on here. It just sucks to see the creators of something so damn cool stop caring. *sigh*
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
How about Egg Orbit?
Now I have more reason then ever to burn all of my mp3 to regular cd format then re-rip them into OGG-Vorbis. Lets see I have a little under 5 gigs of mp3's, so hmmm does anyone where I could buy a thousand cd spindle?
and I believe OGG will achieved the same popularity and extension that it's other BSD Licensed bretheren enjoy. It's gotta be the freedom of the BSD license that encourages companys to pick up on this stuff, rather than re-inventing the wheel with yet another standard because they don't like a particular clause or so in the license.. Deja vu? This is a test to see if I'll get credit for yesterday's highest modded post. The real credit goes to TechnoVooDooDaddy.
Random is the New Order.
I ask because I'm a fairly casual reader. I load up Slashdot every couple of days and scan the headlines. My total time spent 'Slashdotting' is maybe 20-25 minutes a week. Despite all of this, I am quite aware of the INSANE amount of story repeats that go on here. Say all you want about the fact that there are multiple editors and each might post without knowing what the other one did (even if it was the same day or the day before!!??), but if they spent only the limited amount of time I do actually reading (just the headlines even, not even user comments!) Slashdot, they'd see these obvious repeats... Wouldn't they? And if they can't be bothered to spend 20-25 minutes per week actually reading the site, then why the hell are they editors here?
Just askin'. I mean, I slashdot for free so I don't feel the editors "owe" me anything, but I don't understand why they'd be so willing to make asses of themselves on such a widely known public site by not doing simple duplicate checking.
"Do the guys that work at Slashdot actually READ Slashdot?"
Did the 4,000 people who commented on the dupe story read the comments?
have the editors gone blind?
repost after repost,
have you guys stopped reading the site or what?
I'd love to hear thoughts on this.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
... how many of you that posted observations about the dupe story actually thought you were the first to notice?
"Derp de derp."
but since this is a duplicate story it really wouldnt be now would it?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I was able to download and use an ogg encoder on my home pc, but can't find on one their site today. Can someone provide a valid url? Yes, I've checked their download pages. This would be for Win2000 Pro.
Thanks, really, I mean that.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
I guess so... The editors keep rejecting my article on how open source is hurting small software vendors -- and instead, they prefer to re-post the same drivel of "open source will save the world" that they post every day...
Just like good little communists, slashot always manages to supress the alternate view...
CNET has an article, and suddenly it's news all
over again? What I'm wondering, is why are people
submitting stories for third party articles about
stories or events were already linked to from
slashdot?
Don't the submitters even look at the stories here
anymore? Are people blindly submitting any new
tech story on CNET, TheRegister, or Wired?
Old:
Posted by timothy on Wednesday September 04, @04:07PM
from the iriver-are-you-listening dept.
New:
Posted by timothy on Wednesday September 04, @04:07PM
from the timothy-are-you-reading dept.
hey i think i'm entitled to be credited for the subscription page i wasted loading up this duplicate story.
but i doubt that'll happen.
Betamax VCRs cost more. Many companies made VHS VCRs, and competition drove prices down, while only Sony made Betamax.
VHS allowed 6 hours of recording per tape, and consumers considered the quality adequate. Betamax had better quality, but much less time per tape (under 2 hours, IIRC).
VHS VCRs could not easily be made that would play Betamax tapes. Choosing VHS meant not choosing Betamax.
Now let's compare Ogg Vorbis and MP3:
MP3 costs money, and Ogg never does. "More expensive" will not apply to Ogg ever.
Ogg can fit as much music, or more, as MP3 into a similar space. Yet Ogg has the better quality. (Consumers consider MP3 quality to be adequate, though.) This one is a wash.
Players can be easily made that will play either MP3 or Ogg. When Ogg players are available, buying one will not mean choosing not to be able to play MP3s; and consumers might buy a player wanting to use it for MP3s, and wind up using it for Ogg.
So I don't think the Betamax comparison is all that useful.
It will cost engineering time and testing time to add Ogg to players, but it will not cost any licensing fees. It isn't free to add Ogg to a player, but it's darn close, and Ogg adds nothing to the all-important "cost of goods". Given this, it is inevitable that at least some players will be available that will do Ogg.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
The more that we express our displeasure with the obvious fact that the editors don't care, the more likely they are to start paying attention. At this point, with there being generally a repeat every day, the number of complaints often outweighs the number of comments on the subject. I keep hoping that someday one of the "editors" will look at the comments and realize that there's a problem. (Of course, maybe they really don't care that thousands of people think that they're lazy idiots because they can't even glance at the front page before posting a story.)
The fact that the stories repeat isn't so bad in itself, but it's a symtom of the bigger problem that the editors simply don't care about slashdot. Until they either start working, or get a clue and step down, they deserve all the derision we can heap on them.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Hey slashdot editors, how about marking that checkbox in your own preferences and try to read it before posting stuff?
that's two duplicates in two days you could've avoid by doing that...
I was able to download and use an ogg encoder on my home pc, but can't find on one their site today. Can someone provide a valid url?
I use OggDropXPd.
Will I retire or break 10K?
With a .ogg enabled iPod and LingoTeach you could make custom language .oggs files (like, replace those expensive language learning tapes) and listen to them on the way to wherever!
get 7 free Japanese lessons.
If the people get something better, they will Switch(TM) eventually. Long live Ogg.
It will NEVER have hardware support
The freeing of Tremor should change that.
cause it has a stupid name
Is "em-pee-three" any better?
Not to mention have you EVER seen an OGG on KaZaA Lite, WinMX or eDonkey?
I have seen .ogg files on WinMX. The main reason you don't is that WinMX by default shares only files named "*.mp3".
By the time anyone ever takes OGG seriously, the patent for MP3 will have expired
Not if Unisys, Thomson, Lilly, and Pfizer get together and lobby for a Cherilyn Lapierre Patent Term Extension Act.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I hate Deja Vu
I doubt that's really why people are posting the obvious. I think it's karma whoring, personally. Half-assed attempts at +1 Funny's and so on.
If you really want to complain, send an email to the Slashdot staff. If an article drives 400 comments, then 400 people have seen the ads. Think about it. You'll just encourage errors to happen.
Personally, I think the real reason that not much attention is paid to spelling is that it drives the eyeballs up. (that and it's hard to be nice to people who are impolite about it.)
- Stand in corner facing life-size printout of the Goatse.cx image.
- Lashing with wet towel, rat-tail style
- Post at -1 for one month
- Support Windows XP at Stumblefuck, Alabama call center for one month
- Blow Cowboy Neal
All of the above should take place on webcam and best stills should be interspersed with the normal banner ads.This is the same non-FPU decoder that has been in use on the Sharp Zaurus handheld from TheKompany.
;)
It was coded by the author of Vorbis with assembler for ARM processors.
I think it'll work.
-- I'd say your post was about 3 monkeys, 18 minutes.
ogg vorbis is a new compression technique that rivals that of mp3 and wma. unlike mp3 and wma, however, ogg vorbis has been patented under the gpl, which will allow developer, manufacturers, and end users to avoid the licensing fees normally associated with compression/encoding technologies.
ogg vorbis is less lossy of a format than that of mp3, and it also has been shown to yield an output file 10 - 17% smaller than that of mp3 and wma, without significant loss of fidelity.
Then add radio tuner. After that it's perfect :)
Seriously, whats so tough about doing floating point math that these devices can't do it? It isn't difficult to see that floating point operations dont have to be so special.
I dont see why hardware needs to recognize floating points at all. Look at the following example.
4.5 + 0.5
0100.1000
+ 0000.1000
-----------
0101.0000
The only thing to handle is that the fractional part of the value must be converted from its decimal to the binary by the ratio of 16/10. Multiply the "binimal" by 16 and then divide by 10.
whats so difficult about that? At the least, these float-less processors could include support for floats in their compilers can then just do the conversions in software. Tough, tough, a whole 3 or 4 instructions!
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
You actually burned your MP3s back to CD to convert them to OGG?!??!? Convert to wav and then re-encode directly, or find an encoder that can read MP3 directly, like lame!
This works better even if you think you have space issues, because most rippers copy the whole CD to the hard drive to rip (650MB). A quick shell script would allow you to convert MP3->wav->OGG one at a time, requiring only enough extra space to hold your biggest file as MP3, WAV, and OGG all at once.
The person who wrote in raises a good point--the name hurts Ogg. MP3 is a good name--it's simple (short), easy to say, easy to type, and catchy. Ogg Vorbis is none of those. I'd personally like to see a new name for Ogg.
Well, as far as advertising goes -- I recommend that anyone that dislikes the attitude of the slashdot staff block the advertisements. (I just turn off images when coming to slashdot, though of course there are better ways of doing it.) If they're going to treat the slashdot readers as mindless consumers, I'm certainly not going to waste my bandwidth in order to help them make a profit. They've done nothing to earn my loyalty.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
This seems to be happening more recently, but at least the editors are admitting it. Maybe it is time for a "duplicate story" category and icon.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Come on folks. This repeat bullshit is crap.
It's only a "bad name" because no one recognizes it. Go back to 1997 and try saying MP3 to people in the street -- they'll give you funny looks.
As for your lies about how "hard" it is to type, yeesh, try counting it. 2 unique keypresses using 2 fingers (with one repeat motion) vs. 3 on 3 separate fingers ends up being the same -- 3 motions.
Maybe the name doesn't make sense to people who can't count, but for the rest of us, we'll keep using it.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Slightly OT.. anyone know of .ape compatible players now or in the near future?
"Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards." -Aldous Huxley
" If they're going to treat the slashdot readers as mindless consumers, I'm certainly not going to waste my bandwidth in order to help them make a profit"
/. in the least tactful way. Blocking the ads will only lower /.'s ability to get money, which could lead to shutdown of the site. If all you want is a minor fix, then you're going about it in the least direct and most painful way.
Replying to my post didn't do anything to help that. It's another comment, therefore more participation in the thread. You should be emalling them about it, not me.
"They've done nothing to earn my loyalty."
Is loyalty really an issue here? It's not like you're paying anything to view the news.
"I recommend that anyone that dislikes the attitude of the slashdot staff block the advertisements."
0 effect. Don't like when Slashdot does something? Complain directly to the editors so they know what the problem is. I seriously doubt they're paying a whole lot of attention to the comments. I wouldn't. People who complain about
Or Oof Vommit?
or how about o99 v04b15? Make it l337 like mp3.
If you wanna find out what OGG means, just catch this football and stand there.
Clickety Click
Slashdot Mod 1: "Oh damn! We're running out of news stories for Slashdot because none of the submissions are up to scratch. What will we do??"
Slashdot Mod 2: "I know, lets repost a story from yesterday!"
Slashdot Mod 1: "Sounds like a great idea! If anyone starts asking questions, lets just call it an accident, that'll keep those slashdotters busy!"
Slashdot Mod 2: "Perfect! Now, where are my donuts?"
Or does the slashdot crowd appear to be one of the most unforgiving groups on a news discussion board?
For heavens sake, it's just a duplicate article!! Timothy's apologised, and recognised his mistake. Just accept that and move on, people!
Reading the "outrage" from this article, you'd think that this was a crime akin to mass murder. Geez! The guy is just human. Cut him some slack!
I love reading Slashdot every day, and I really appreciate it. I also think that tech people are one of the nicest groups on the planet. Please don't change my opinion.
DeeK
The reason why compaining in the comments is important is because it lets everyone -- not just the editors -- see the complaints. If everyone just stuck to e-mail, then they could just claim, "Not too many people are bothered; we don't need to do anything." (If you don't believe they'd do that, recall their response to page-widening.)
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
If this lame name whinging is the best Ogg's detractors can do then it should go like gangbusters. Incidentally, the audio codec is simply Vorbis. Ogg is a container format like Quicktime. In time we will be able to speak of Ogg Theora and in lotsa time Ogg Tarkin. If I'm not totally mistaken it can contain the Speex speech compression codec as well.
The name whinging is really lame. Kleenex most certainly "isn't a word". The name certainly doesn't make me think "something to blow my excess snot into". It ACQUIRED that meaning. Think about it.
Yes I have read the commentary. Let me be specific. I would purchase an Ogg Vorbis only player (not MP3). I think that when manufacturers see that there is a market for open source based products, there will be a better selection. Further, when patent holders see a significant decrease in revenue, maybe they will pull their heads out of their fourth point of contact. I am planning to email a couple of my favorite hardware vendors and lobby. I would suggest that like-minded individuals do the same.
/. better increase the number of ads because this baloney is cutting my visits from daily to weekly. The current metamoderation system does not weed out for those who overrate. Oh well...
It is so disappointing to have to page through off-topic, redundant crap (i.e. Hey dude, this story is a duplicate) in order to get to some discussion about the topic. A year or so ago, you could browse at +1 or +2 and rise above the toilet rim, but now, the manure rises as high as +4. I think that
It was the first one I saw at score 1. Still was after the sickeningly long time it took to bang out on my new dvorak and submit.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
*insert game show buzzer sound here*
Wrong! Gotta love how anything opensource automatically implies a GPL-like license now. Unless the author was referring to other parts of the Ogg Vorbis suite which aren't released under the BSD license, but I doubt it since the article mentions hardware players, ie. Tremor.
to quote my most recent email back from them, they're definately looking into adding ogg support to the players, and i know that the flash upgradeable firmware was one of my big decision makers when purchasing it.
that 'n' the standard cf slot, & aa batteries
- tensions in our lives that are attacking our minds, unite themselves together to make our consciousness blind - op'ivy
I listen to mp3 radio, Digital Trance/Techno from the UK, alot of stuff you cant find on tv/radio. I have to order the cd's for the mixes, but you can find unknown mixes on gnutella (if popular)..
I wonder, since I'm buying imported music, does the RIAA still make money off it? Are there main guntella connections for the UK?
And speaking on encoding, I love how an Ogg Vorbis encoded cd has no skips between the tracks, really annoying with mp3s.
Is it really too much to ask that the editors of /. take 5 minutes each day to at least give a cursory glance over the headlines of the last day or so? It greatly reduces your credibility.
BTW, I realize that this comment is somewhat of a duplicate of other comments, but since I'm not an editor, I'll side-step any potential hypocrisy.
"Scientists prove we were never here."
-- Devo
Several of the players out there (Sony is particularly guilty of this) are using other even more propietary formats and most people do not notice the difference.
Most players can play at least another format along MP3. New players could play both MP3 and Ogg with view to acustom their customers to the new format before dumping MP3 for good.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You don't know what you are talking about.... at least regarding UNIX....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Fag smoker. That's actually appealing? Maybe if you are gay, but if you're straight (and you live outside of England) you wouldn't want to call yourself that. I think smokes became popular because they have addictive additives put into them.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
How about...
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
So is the other one, but I dont see any bloody warning there...
Patents eventually bite.
Now that all these technologies are in their infancy it is the time to promote standards that are good for most people.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.