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A First Look At The Xandros Desktop
Gentu writes "OSNews has an exclusive article regarding the awaited Xandros Desktop. Xandros is the company who purchased the Corel Linux source code and rights, so in essense, this is the second generation of the once promising, Corel's Linux. OSNews previews beta 3b and they say that this distribution, along with Lycoris, Lindows (and possibly Red Hat 8), is the one to compete for the purely-for-the-desktop Linux market."
When showing off a new desktop, at least put a decent skin on Mozilla.
I recommend Pinball .
Your preferences may differ.
nuclear presidential echelon assassination encryption virulent strain
Whizzmo
In screen shot 4 theres a resolution switcher ala windows where the hell has this been for the other distros?
Thats too bad that it looks like win98, if they want windows converts it's going to have to look like winXP.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
I'm personally sick of my parents complaining about how slow their computer is, even though they only use it for e-mail and web browsing. I have been wanting to get them off of Windows 98 for a long time now, but since they are so computer illiterate, I have been afraid to. This could very well be the OS that will get the away from Windows. We'll see.
The point is that this isn't necessarily the right distro for us, but it could very well be for our parents/grandparents/sons/daughters/alien sex fiends.
As usual, just my dos centavos.
Insert offensive troll-style sig here. Please mod or respond appropriately.
But this completely misses the point. The thing that's keeping Linux off the desktops of all those millions of Windows users is the lack of compatibility with the programs that those users want to run. Got a way to run all of MS Office, including all macros, keyboard shortcuts, etc.? How about Quicken? How about the stack of games the user or his/her kid has at home? How about the one text editor that the user finally found that he or she likes (and without having to spend hours reconfiguring a Linux editor to mimic it)?
All the pretty UI work in the world won't make any difference at all to users if the system won't run what they think is important.
I have been told that RH is specialized in file serving world. I have also been told that other Linux distros are specialized in other areas. How will Corel Linux be specialized?
...but why is it that every Linux Desktop Environment invariably looks like Windows 98?
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Am I missing something? I don't want to start a stupid flamewar..."my distro is better than yours!", but I didn't read anything in that article that Mandrake doesn't do at least as well, and usually better. Not to mention that 9.0 is right around the corner....I am a full time grad student and researcher...have been Windows free for years...and when I get home at night I just want my distro to work, be highly customizable, and not have to dick with config files....and the only thing I have seen that rivals Mandrake on the desktop for that is the latest Redhat....and I don't like the direction they are taking with the bastardized Gnome/KDE....good for the masses but not for me.....who is this author that he is already proclaiming this Xandros to be a top competitor for the desktop.....?
don't mod me down too much...:-)
cheers,
J0ey4
Don't forget Lindows, which is a fork from an earlier version of Xandros (IMO much better in its current 1.3 version that most linux distros, as far as ease of use goes).
http://www.lindows.com/
A solution to the problem with music today
BTW, I realize that might have sounded overly harsh, I didn't mean it that way.
Oh, and as a side note, what's wrong with the Modern skin included with Mozilla? I've always been a big fan.
The first ever Ultimate Frisbee video game: here (now
I'm not sure I love the look, but it seems I found the distro I'm gonna install on my parents' box...
We've always been at war with Eurasia.
but, this is so close that an average user might just look at it and think, "this looks a lot like windows, it must be a cheap knockoff and probobly crashes even more" and then the same person might look at osX and think "this is pretty cool looking and I have heard a lot about this and its nothing like the windows gui, it must also crash a lot less"
maybe if there was a newbie installer that gave the user a 5 minute or so period in several different gui's in which they were assigned a few simple tasks to complete (open a word proccessor, find some settings, go to a web pate, etc.) then they would have something to base their choice on in a friendly manner
Bottles.
Um, remind me again, since when was the primary advantage of "linuz" its beautiful looks? How about stability, and perhaps even more importantly, cost? If Joe User can get a fully loaded distro for half the cost of Windows (not to mention the included Office suite(s) and other software that Microsoft would have you spending hundreds of dollars on), I think that alone is plenty of incentive. If anything, the similarities to the looks of Windows should help this distro gain converts - the only thing holding most people back is the pain of learning a new system, and hopefully this will help to bridge the gap.
The first ever Ultimate Frisbee video game: here (now
Aye, but he's not the man who founded OSNews, nor is he the man who's currently in charge. In fact, he didn't even write the article- that person is Eugenia Loli-Queru of BeNews fame.
So no, nothing fishy here.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
apparently you havent seen the Red Hat Null beta. The slick package management, up2date, the consistant desktop. Mandrake doesnt come close. Mandrake's icon set is butt.
I used to have my system setup so I could hit control,shift,+ or - and go up or down between my programmed modes.
Great fun.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
You're right. All these terrible things make any interest in computers or anything else in normal life worthless.
Why don't we all just go sit in a corner and cry -- would that make you happy?
Life goes on. It always has. It always will. While this may seem unimportant to you, in the overall picture of humanity, we too close to the situation to know what effect (if any) the WTC attack or Xandros Linux will have on the future. The world can stop everything and do nothing but respond to tragedy, or we can keep going with life and keep building a world that eventually has a chance of healing these wounds.
In the meantime, I worked with many social workers and psychologists when I taught emotionally disturbed teens. Would you like me to recommend someone you could start seeing regularly?
If you want to get them away from Win98, there's another good Linux option: Lycoris I've installed it for a few users who've only known one version of Windows or another, and they're doing very nicely with it. The CEO of the company, Joseph Cheek, impressed me early on with his web page dedicated to Linux that was *very* technically astute. Lycoris, however, is based on Caldera instead of Debian, so that could be a problem for some /. folks.
Seriously. I've been seeing this more and more. NewsForge and linux.com, in particular, are pretty bad for this.
You see a review, and it says something like: "the big players in the Linux "purely-desktop market" are Lycoris, Lindows, ELX and the much awaited Xandros".
Good god! Mandrake, anybody? What they really mean is "the big players who may actually give us money to review their products are Lycoris, Lindows, ELX, and Xandros".
Absolutely pitiful. I see gobs and gobs of sites reviewing commerical *nix software these days, COMPLETELY IGNORING the more stable, mature, full-featured, robust, and easier-to-use open source/free software alternatives.
OSNews hasn't been as bad for this, in my experience, but I'm going to be watching very closely from now on.
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Ya'll seem to like it's look and feel a whole lot. Are we to assume no one has an original idea in the OSS community? Every desktop is a knock-off of another. How many times will OSS reinvent the wheel?
People are supposed to take this stuff seriously? Come on
1) Work on those taskbar icons. Y'all can do better.
2) PLEASE let there be an easy "Internet Sharing" wizard.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Then how can it do presentations? I wanted to make PowerPoint presentations. I was told Linux could do that. How do I make it print envelopes?
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
I mean, if you're going to copy a GUI at this point, might as well copy OS X, fer sakes.
Anyway, I hope this distro turns out good, I can't wait til someone comes out with a distro that's simple yet solid enough for me to feel confident recommending it to all my friends/family. While there are many distros that come close, I still would hesitate before recommending any of them to a computer-novice friend.
The first ever Ultimate Frisbee video game: here (now
Then how can it do presentations? I wanted to make PowerPoint presentations. I was told Linux could do that. How do I make it print envelopes?
Don't laugh, I got this one from a person yesterday.
Bleh.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
How is that unprecedented? That happens almost every week somewhere or another.
Now a Linux distro meant primarily for the Desktop that doesn't suck, that would be unprecedented!
More importantly though, what do thousands of dead bodies give a "good god damn" about?
You really should install Xandros' PRIORITY desktop distribution.
The following features are installed by default:
WTC images as the default wallpaper to constantly remind us of our need for prioritization and perspective.
Sally Struthers Dock-app counter that ticks off the number of starving people in third-world countries.
Integrated calendar and scheduler, including timed reminders for planned WTO protests.
globally-aware MUD client (GAMUD). Create one of seventeen politically-aligned characters for debate and discussion at the UN round table!
___
Seriously, just because I have an interest in this industry doesn't mean that I'm "squandering my finite, precious time on this earth playing video games." And I should think that the souls of those victims have a good deal more to do than to watch me eat breakfast- they're too busy laughing at your incredibly large sense of self worth, for instance.
I did as well surprisingly... heh.
I just wanna know if Xandros will have the cute little plastic Tux included in the box like Corel did!
How about getting a Mac for them?
Unless of course you are dead set on getting them a GNU/Linux machine in which case I pity you as although GNU/Linux is a nice server OS it isn't the best in the usability department for a desktop OS, yet.
Considering what they do, I would just get them a Flat Panel iMac.
Mandrake, Red Hat, and (to a lesser extent) SuSE all provide some emphasis as a server. I'm pretty sure that Xandros et al don't ship with any server software.
I think the Windows interface is highly functional, but I don't understand why nearly ever new linux GUI I see looks almost exactly like Windows. Why not do something different?
sig.
As a software company in the Linux space, Xandros benefits from and recognizes the phenomenal contributions of the following groups (to name a few): The Linux Kernel Archive, The GNU Project ...
Slashdot .
I wonder what Slashdot contribution is: first posts of idea bewoulf clustering?
One of the very minor reasons why I switched to Linux some time back was because I didn't like the look of M$ Windows. It was ugly, blocky, and generally gave me hardly any options to customise the widget and window decoration, which is what I like about KDE. It allows me to do that, plus a lot more stuff which Windows dosen't even hint at. Purely at a desktop OS stance, I feel that they made a bad choice going for the Win9x look, as it looks repulsive and just gives a bad feel to the distro, as it appears to be a cheap ripoff. Many people have labeled KDE a Windows Desktop clone, which I do not believe, as it is FAR superior to the Windows desktop. It supports applets in the panel, and the panel looks much better when it's in normal mode, and not small mode (like in the screenshots). This distro only heightens their claim. A good solution is not to try and clone the Windows desktop, but rather to make something better than it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I agree WHOLE HEARTEDLY.
This looks so much like WINDOWS it makes me want to VOMIT.
Thank GOD I switched to Mac!
OS X = POWER + USABILITY + FRESH UI
Hell, even M$ got tired of that look. As Fisher-Pricey as Luna looks, it's a hell of a lot better than those butt-ugly 1995 era screen-shots.
"Starting by describing the installation, well, it was the best I ever saw on a Linux distro (the installer and other parts of the OS are based on Corel's Linux - Xandros bought the rights last year). "
Best I have ever seen?
Best I ever saw?
which sounds better?
Zoid.com
I would like to bring up a VERY good point that
/disks folder shows that."
someone else made in a comment at osnews...
"they aren't following the LSB's recomendations for file system organization fully, the
this definetly has to be the worst decision they could make...
while most other distro's are trying to become standardized and avoid fragmentation xandros seems to be running in the opposite direction.
--- Brad (http://www.LinuxReview.net)
It occurs to me that what the Linux community needs is not another hacked-up KDE knock-off, but a real ground-up GUI. By GUI, I don't mean an X11 WM, I mean a complete GUI. Some lessons can be learned from Mac OS X's graphics system.
Point 1: Dump X11 entirely. It's a lot easier to write libraries to display X11 apps in a different environment than it is to make X11 into a modern graphics environment. Its development began 18 years ago (released 14 years ago), and frankly, its age shows, both in performance and in functionality.
Point 2: OpenGL compositing a la Quartz Extreme. Windows become patterns mapped onto a plane. 3D graphics are tightly integrated into the same screen model.
Point 3: With the exception of bitmaps (which you map as a pattern), draw all the 2d windows using 3d primitives, say as a variant of splines that have thickness, located just in front of a 2d plane.
I'm not sure how hard this would be, but the basic thinking behind this idea is to take a traditional PDF or PostScript-style bezier curve model and map it into 3d primitives so that it can be rendered in hardware.
I suspect that such a design may go farther than is practical given current graphics hardware speeds, but if someone were to write such software, eventually the hardware would catch up and such a thing would then become practical, assuming it isn't already.
Point 4: Do not use a client-server model. It made sense in 1984. It doesn't make sense in 2002. Most people don't have graphical terminals connected to big centralized servers these days. A client-server model can easily be grafted onto a local model if it is designed correctly. By contrast, local communication via a client-server model tends to cause a speed penalty.
Before you ask, no, I don't have the time to design such a system, and it would be a conflict of interest if I did. That having been said, I certainly think it would be cool if someone pulled it off.... :-)
120 character sigs suck. Make it 250.
Most users have a trouble enough with one desktop to worry about - stop putting a desktop switcher in the taskbar by default!
Multiple desktops are cool _if_ you know what you're doing, but even experienced users take some adjusting at first, and if you have trouble w/ computers as it is then the desktop switcher just serves to take up space and scare the sh!t out of you all at the same time.
that being said I'm psyched about the gui resolution control
Look at the screenshots. The icons, the property boxes, even the fonts all look like they came straight from Win9x. Explain to me why this is good.
Now, I understand the point of this distro is to bring Linux to the desktop, and if the UI is familiar, average peeps will be less scared of it. But where's the innovation? If it looks and feels just like Windows, why switch from Windows?
I'd rather see a desktop that has its own unique look and feel, yet is still user friendly. Why is this so difficult? I've just started playing with OS X, and it seems to be really sweet so far. If you're going to rip off another product's UI (And yes, this is a blatant copy of Win9x), why does it have to be Windows? I would LOVE to see an Aqua clone on X86 that's marketed to the average user.
Here
You can read my response here.
You should also read this and this.
He painted a unicorn in outer space. I'm askin' ya, what's it breathin'?
My guess: 3-4 years from now there will be Windows, Mac, and Red Hat.
Everything else will be hobby desktops. Cherished by the clubs that form around them, but never selling in volume.
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
I'm not saying they should be an "open source news site". That'd be silly.
No, I'm saying they're doing reviews while completely ignoring a HUGE part of the market they're doing these reviews for.
Tell me, when you want an office suite, and you're looking for reviews, won't it seem a _tad_ odd when the only ones you can find reviews for are ones that charge money?
Perhaps a better example would be, what the heck, Unix-based desktops. How would _you_ feel about a site that reviewed software from a little-known newcomer while completely ignoring software from vendors that has been proven and established?
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
that's been around since Corel put it there in their original Corel Linux. I've been pointing that out to both users and distros for years now how easy it was to change to resolution and refresh rate in Corel linux and yet to this day I've been ignored.
That's one thing that drives me nuts about the linux distros. Clearly each one of them has one or more features that they do better than any other distro. Yet for each distro they all go their own way and going from distro to distro you end up getting 50 different apps that do the same thing. As another example, why isn't Mandrake's font importer used in every linux distro? It's been around forever and is the easiest way to get your windows fonts on your linux box.Even Debian who just NOW is starting to work on a GUI installer when working gpl GUI installers based on Debian have been around for years. The day Stormix and Corel came out is the day Debian should have been picking the best GPL pieces out and using them.
Unfortunatly this appears to be the "linux way" at least when it comes to desktop apps and config tools. And Yes IMHO we are reinventing the wheel over and over by not cherry picking and then using the best GPL apps. Is my view oversimplied? Yes. But is foolish pride preventing say Redhat from using some of Mandrake's better GUI tools? Who knows.
I thought one of the benefits to the GPL was code Darwinism?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Yea w2k is MS's golden child, but MS Office is still the red-headed step-child. Office is unstable on any OS and thats where the opertunity for linux is.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
I have long believed that the obsession with themability is a huge red-herring, and is totally unnecessary in a desktop OS. Select an attractive consistent theme for the various themeable applications, and 99.9% of users won't need to change it.
:scratches head;
:sigh:
I was trying to be helpful.
Oh well, at least this time I'm not in negative territory.
In any case, the post I was replying to said s/he was trying to get them off Windows 98 as they complained it was slow and and they only used Email and the web. For that sort of thing, any user friendly OS will do but, most GNU/Linux distros aren't it.
This is the sort of thing an iMac is designed for.
Xandros et al do provide typical Unix daemons. "server software" in other words. They just don't focus on it.
Say, like, Mandrake.
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Heh, ripping on Lycoris with your Anonymous Coward mask on...
Anyway, Lycoris is a spiffy little distro. I am enjoying the hell out of it. In fact as I speak I am installing the Beta build.
You are going to find teething problems with all the desktop distros. However, Lycoris has their stuff more together than most. It installed like a dream on every box I've put it on. And it does seem scarily like Win2K in places...it's designed for smooth transitions for Windows refugees.
There is going to be some hella-cool news coming from the Lycoris camp real soon...keep your eyes and ears peeled.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
what about mandrake?... i know mandrake can be used as everything else but its best as a desktop distro... personalyl i find it to be VERY easy and have used it to convert many windows users... also mandrake 9.0 comes out any day now...
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
This sounds just like the dude that visited my university with a big sign that said 'You make me sick...'. The guy was some X-ian, right-wing fundamentalist that criticized people for who they were and what they believed. This is an interest site. We are interested in nerdy shit like xandros and legos and bullshit. Get a grip. /. was set up to discuss this stuff, not dwell on the deaths of these thousands of people. If you wont get on with life, maybe you need some therapy.
You forgot + OVERPRICED HARDWARE
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Search first, ask questions later.
" More importantly though, what do thousands of dead bodies give a "good god damn" about?"
I dunno...faster respawn times?
*cue snare hit and duck*
thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waittress.
Even giving away something for free is a GPL violation if you don't provide source.
However, my understanding is that you don't have to give away the source up-front, you only have to provide a written offer to provide the source for some number of years. You're allowed to charge a nominal amount of money for the distribution media.
But note that even if there is some delay you have to distribute the exact source for everything you distribute in binary form, even "beta tests".
Sometimes Unix apps are ported to windows by using the Cygwin DLL, and then given away for free, even with all the source code. But the Cygwin people are always very careful to ensure that people who do this provide the source code to the same version of the Cygwin DLL they link with; they have to give the source away themselves, it is not sufficient to provide a hyperlink to Cygwin's website.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
This is a Linux distribution to watch out for, and it would straight compete with both Lycoris and Lindows.
Umm, yeah. It's good to know that we've been 'straight competing' all this time. Here I was thinking we were just in normal competition.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
xnest ! super fun goodness for the happy person. i don't know that it could run fullscreen on top of the prior session, but it certainly runs well in a window!
-Drache Kubisuro
Some posts seem to be similer themed: It looks great (or..eww it looks like windows) but still won't run the programs
But I say that the easier Linux gets for the end user, and the more attractive it becomes, the more developers it will attract.
But I'll probably stick with windows until it happens.. So I guess I'm still part of the problem, not the solution.
Hmmm..
I wonder how many of people feel that way.....
Here's one more likely: "I hate Windows..I have never heard of Linux".
Maybe this distribution will help both of these phrases.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
..by spreading open document formats, by making the switch to linux painless, by establishing confidence in good open source software.
Moritz
How long until Microsoft's lawyers are all over this? Did they really have to rip off Windows interface almost to the pixel? This is just begging for trouble.
And why rip off the worst interface from the start? Couldn't they take some cues from Mac OS X, combine it with some features from classic Mac OS and have a nice interface?
Look at all that wasted space in the settings dialog for instance. Yeck!
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Windows2000/XP is plenty stable for the average user. Cost? Know anyone who's paid for Windows in their lifetime? And don't say "they paid for it with the price of their desktop", but then Ill say "know anyone who's bought a desktop that didnt come with Windows in their lifetime?"
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
..I would want it to have that darkish look you see on hacker tv-shows :D Not a bad ripoff of the boring default windows skin you've tried so hard to get rid off.
I don't want to poke anyone in the ass but people, its like you don't know it all anymore. There are a thousand things that everyone is urging to know and you can answer this stuff for us. Such as...
I think we better not leave these urgent questions unanswered. Because if we fail to discuss these things in each and every Linux-related article, someone somewhere might think these things are unimportant.
What a horrible possibility.
When you reboot, everything is in graphical mode, you don't see any kernel or init messages going on, but rather the Xandros logo animating in the screen while loading the OS. I should point out that in the beginning you get three options, to load the OS in normal mode, safe mode or expert configuration mode (just in case something gone wrong you can actually see the text messages from the booting procedure).
Finally, a linux distro has (by default) hidden those hundreds of lines of text that come up every time the system boots. For the average linux newbie, they do nothing but create confusion and panic. "Was that an error message that just flew by?" "What does that mean?" "Hmm...2645 bogomips? Will I need to remember that later?"...and so on.
I'm not saying they're not useful; in fact, they can be a life saver. Without all those printk's and init messages, it would be awfully hard or even impossible to diagnose and fix many problems. There's just no reason for them to be there when everything's working properly.
Every Linux distro seems to have the same problem. What every distribution should focus on, is to contribute to the opensource projects with functionality they think is lacking. I've used both Mandrake and Suse for quite a while, and both of them have their own control-panels with extra functionality such as resolution and frequency changing among others. Why don't they contribute such functionality as modular plugin to kcontrol or gnomes equivalent, so that a standard can be built. And secondly, why do they have to clutter with the start-menues. I prefer the default kde menu, becaus I can easily install new icons from themes.kde.org. And when I add rpm packages from apps.kde.com, they actually show up in the menu!
From their "So Secure" page:
"Secure means users are less prone to virus attacks and security breeches as well as the down time, damage, and inconvenience they cause."
With Windows, I always felt claustrophobic below the waistline. Now that Xandros got rid of my pants, I can truly be free again. Thank you, Xandros, in the name of the entire office.
If you wanna mail me some cash, I'd be glad to get everyone I know on a Mac with OS X Jaguar.
Unfortunately a Mac is way out of my price range at the moment. I think a nice user friendly Linux distro will fill in nicely.
Can any of them instantly change the colour depth without restarting X? That's one things that has always irked me about X.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
BeOS.
user@host$ diff
Jeez, there was a lot of static about this Eugenia person a few days ago in the story about her review of Yast2, and man, now I understand ... how serious can you take anyone using a Voodoo 5 card, for christs sake?!
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
'BeOS'.
user@host$ diff
Linux has perhaps two more years
before most new PCs will no longer run it.
Unless it can build-up a critical mass
on the desktop, where it is visible,
we are going to see the closing of the doors.
Microsoft is designing a PC platform that
will not run Linux.
Today's "open" hardware risks becoming illegal.
Only mass consumer protest and rejection
of future Windows releases can prevent this.
Which is why the battle will be fought on the desktop.
Xandros builds on Corel's excellent work.
It is time to consolidate on One Linux Desktop.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Frankly, I'd rather live in a world where everyone but the geeks (who ran GNU/Linux or BSD) ran OpenOffice (or free gobe, or koffice, or..) on Windows than a world where everyone but the geeks ran MS Office on GNU/Linux. Because you running windows is only bad for you (and the people you send trojans to) but you running MS Office is, because of the file formats, bad for everyone.
How about anyone who ever bought a desktop Mac?
--is not to be confused with user #672982 - Bame Flait
This is definitely the best line in the review:
:-)
Xandros looks and feels quite a bit like Windows98 in places, possibly this was intentional.
I dunno, maybe it was a complete fluke that the Xandros Group came up with a Launch! button where Start is, a resizable Quick Launch area, applications tiled as buttons on the Taskbar, a System Tray, and a Clock. (A clock. Holy shit. I should have patented that.)
C'mon, people. You could have at least tried to put the Trash in the bottom right corner or something. I'm no big fan of current trends in IP law, but this is a total ripoff of the Windows(TM) desktop.
I think there might be a few improvements, like the little up-arrow at the end of the taskbar buttons to pop up another colums for when your drunken porn cruise has OnLoaded and OnUnloaded so many windows that the buttons are taller than they are wide. The four desktops thing is good if you have four monitors (which video card does that again??) But seriously, this desktop looks a whole lot like my current Windows XP desktop. Maybe I can install Xandros on the secretary's computer over the weekend and she'll never notice.
WARNING!! Singularity Approaching! Open Source computer indistinguishable from Monopolist Capitalism.
Actually, I think cost is alot more important than you're making it out to be. What's really great about Linux is that you can stay current with all the apps you've invested your time learning -- e.g. Gimp, Open Office, etc. It's not just about the cost of Windows -- it's the cost of the whole package. Most Windows people get way out of date with their software -- e.g. my sister uses some ancient dusty old Works on one computer, and a newer one on a more recent computer. File formats are incompatible. Why this unsatisfactory state of affairs? Because it's too expensive and/or too much trouble to upgrade. With Linux, it's so easy/cheap to upgrade. There's _one_ source for _everything_ (if you use apt-get, or an equivalent). And it's all free.
Another example is PhotoShop -- yes, Photoshop is better than the Gimp. But, most people I know who use Photoshop at home have some really ancient version, which is much worse than the Gimp. Here, it's really the cost that's the issue. The same can be said for Microsoft Office -- which I very much doubt Microsoft will ever give away for free.
As I see it, ultimately, that's the major strength of Linux -- it gives cost-conscious users an easy and cheap way to stay current. In any case, that's the main reason I switched our household to Linux. (we have about 5 or 6 active or semi-active computers -- WinXP's copy protection drove the final nail in the coffin)
Beg to differ... UltraEdit is the best text/programmer editor I've ever ever used.
And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
If the averege user is ever gonna use Linux it has to be a distribution out there for the newbie. If they use it and later feel the would like something harder/more configurable there are dozens of very good distros to try later on. As a beginners dist i think Xandros seems pretty good and it might even work handy dandy for regular users too.
No matter what we personally think about these distros they have a huge benefit for us who are a bit more advanced in linux. Something that many übernerds tend to forget is that with comercialism we also get some benefits as a spinoff.
A bigger userbase gives us better drivers, more comercial apps and overall better support for linux and i cant imagine that being bad. If they fsck up then adios amigos with them and we pick something else to use.
The diversity of linux is what makes it great and thats something we really should hold precious. Not to the expence of compability. Stick to the LSB and we should be just fine even with thousands of different distributions.
HTTP/1.1 400
only a fucking geek would find it funny. If you don't understand that making Powerpoint presentations and printing envelopes are PRIMARY reasons for many users to even have a computer, then all the linux bullshit in the world isn't gonna make MS curl up and die. A far as most office-bound schmucks are concerned, Windows DOES print envelopes and make Powerpoint presentations.
That was classic intercourse!
still cheaper than it was two years ago... when you couldn't get it at ANY price. Macs are only overpriced if you actually think they're just slow PCs in a nice case.
That was classic intercourse!
I only know 30 or 40 of THOSE...
That was classic intercourse!
.. dear god my eyes hurt!
Seriously though, couldn't they have come up with better icons than this? Even completely reusing some of KDEs or GNOMEs work would have been better. It just looks horrible.
I do understand why they have tried to make it as windowsish as possible, but having it look like a very unprofessional unpolished version of Windows does it no good at all imho.
It tries to be a windows rippoff, forfeighting all that would make people give up the Windows Platform for Linux!
Why don't these guys have the gutts to take a perfect linux setup with added usability and all (f.e. Fluxbox WM default behaviour) cool looking Themes and just close the holes that are then left over (crappy fonts on Linux, office package, textmessage bootup and shutdown)?
Why the hell does everybody in the buisness consider M$ the reference for end user usability (which is - mind you - utter bullshit)???
Do a mac rippoff if you will - but this grey in grey Win98 copycat? I'm gonna recomend Windoze migrators SuSE 8 Pro as the Linux n00by choice. It might suck as update, but the install is grafical all the way trough to bootup and shutdown and, damn, it may be green but it shure looks cool.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Me too :-(
But in theory they *are* out there ;-)
--is not to be confused with user #672982 - Bame Flait
Great, another desktop interface for Linux.
...hmm...actually...ahem...I'll go back to OS X now.
The more the better, right?
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
hey, I'm German, plz bear with me ...
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
... what's the point?
PNG makes sense.
That is exactly the problem! Why would anyone think it was a good idea for people to associate Mozilla with Netscape. Netscape used to be decent, but 4.x became a total disaster, devolving into a total bloatware mess, with an ugly interface to-boot. It got lost in a never-ending cycle of bugfixes and new bugs, slowly(quickly?) becoming more and more unstable, and never coming close to implementing any of the newer standards, etc.
Why the Mozilla developers decided it would be a good idea to have that skin with those icons, and especially making it the default, I don't even want to guess. I consider that to be their biggest mistake. Everything else about Mozilla I really like, except that damn skin and it being the default, it just really upsets me, especially when I hear of people who throw Mozilla away and never give it a second chance JUST BECAUE OF THAT DAMN SKIN! People don't realize right away that they can change that, and they DO NOT want to use something that they think is still Netscape...
</rant>
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Mandrake is NOT into the "purely-desktop"-market. Have you seen whats included on those Mandrake CDs? Apache, PHP, postgresql, mail-servers, etc..
Mandrake tries to make a "jack of all trades" distribution, just like Red Hat and SuSE. I personally welcome the pure desktop-solutions.
When are people going to stop using the tired line, of watch Windows crash. Windows 9x may have crashed, a properly configured and maintained Windows XP box will simply not crash. I have only seen my machine crash in Windows 2000 or XP once in a year and a half and that was due to an old unstable video driver. Yes a video issue shouldn't take down a machine but that's the price you pay for Kernel level video drivers. If you want to bash Windows at least think up something true. For the desktop arena, windows crashes about as much as linux, period
.
I respect Redhat
I like Mandrake
I can tolerate Lycoris
I WANT Xandros!!!
Of course. I want any new/revised distro and right now, but Corel Linux was the smoothest (maybe along with Stormix R.I.P.) of the installs I've ever used.
I don't care what the front end looks like, or I should say that Win-ish isn't to be feared, but there should be enough difference so that I, or anyone else using it KNOWS they are not using MSWin.
Just for safety sake. It can't be Windows and if your moving from platform to platform like I do, it's actually easier to be in alien atmosphere not in something that feels the same but puts you down a rabbit hole at odd momemts.
I dont really know why Eugenias problem with Xandros Update is. But as a Xandros beta tester for at least 6 months now, I can tell you it works perfect.
.deb files. What this means is that you can use it as a normal rpm installer, but there is no dependency installing. Same goes for if you download manual, then try to install it. So it works perfect for everything it's intended to do.
.debs of those latest versions yet.
Basically It is a front end to apt-get, so it works just as well as apt-get does. You use a search feature to find the package name, or a word in the package discription. Then you select all the packages you want to install, and click the "install/update/remove" button. It will then fetch them all, install them, and install any dependencies (prompting you if it's alright to install the dependencies)
The slight confusion that some people seem to be having it that it also supports installing rpms and downloaded
Also complaining about the selection of packages? It's the exact same selection you get with debians apt-get, cause they are useing the same package sources.
A few people of complained that xandros isn't running all the latest stable version of some applications, this is also because they install them useing Xandros Update, and debian hasen't provided
And yeah as the previous poster said, There is no way they'll change over to kde 3 for beta 1, we (the beta testers) were telling them 6months ago they needed kde3 to have a chance when they released, but i guess they didnt agree!
I am not to fond of M$ either, but their interface is very simple, and this is what jon and jane doe are looking for. Linux would/has do/done well to borrow very selectively from the M$ interface (if you dont like it put fvwm on ;) features like the 'start' button have worked their way into the linux world with desktops like KDE, Gnome, Enlightenment, dont get pissed if I did not put yours here. I use FVWM all the time not, but if at one point I could not have an OS that looked somewhat like windows I would still be on windows. It was not until I learned that all you need is knowledge of how to use the terminal I moved to a less busy interface.
So I say lets give 90% of the computing world what I guess what I am saying is not specific to this distro (a distro release is hardly news unless is something like Mandrake, Redhat, (insert market share measurable linux here), or an innovation.
correction:"but if at one point I could not have an **OS** that ...." should be Interface (for me it was Gnome)
Can I play EQ with it? :-) EQ's the only thing left keeping WindowsXP on a 10gig swap drive.
Ever Onward, Forward Bound
I think you fall into a grey area. Most Windows users are happy, and don't want to change. Some do want to change for various reasons, but don't want the hassle of having to learn something different. Some easy distros out there make the transistion very easy. The desktop environment looks and feels the same as Windows, and (to quote someone here) 'It just works.' Of course, there are tons of folks who'll do the switch just because it the geek thing to do, as you reffered to. I made the switch years ago when a friend suggested it. My fears then, which you echoed here, were resolved within a weeks time. My advice? Find a friend who uses Linux, and who won't talk over your head or belittle you for using Windows (OS Bashers are lame IMHO). Get with them, and see if you like Linux. If you don't, continue on with Windows.
Ever Onward, Forward Bound
Come on people, people whining about tools not being used when they should be, and they could be because their GPL'd.
If there isn't a distro out there that takes all these great tools and puts them together, then shouldn't there be? It is afterall open source, and that's exactly the kind of thing you'd expect.... so why is no one doing it? Why aren't YOU doing it?
I'd call it The Best Linux Distro In The World, Ever (TBLDITWE for short).
MOTION PICTURE ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, INC.
:
15503 VENTURA BOULEVARD
ENCINO, CALIFORNIA 91436
UNITED STATES
Anti-Piracy Operations
PHONE: (818) 728 - 8127
Email:
April 1, 2003
Via Fax/Email
RE: Illegal Provision of Circumvention Device
Site/URL: http://www.kernel.org [and mirrors, with unknown IP addresses]
Reference#: 343313
Dear
The Motion Picture Association (MPA) represents the following motion picture
production and distribution companies:
Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.
Disney Enterprises, Inc.
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
tro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc.
Paramount Pictures Corporation
TriStar Pictures, Inc.
Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation
United Artists Pictures, Inc.
United Artists Corporation
Universal City Studios, Inc.
Warner Bros., a Division of Time Warner Entertainment Company, L.P.
We have received information that the above referenced Internet site is providing a circumvention device commonly known as Linux. Linux is a software utility that circumvents the protection afforded by the Microsoft Windows Operating Systems DRM implementation, therefore circumventing the schemes designed for consumer content protection and permitting the copy of protected contents in whole or partially. As such, Linux is an unlawful circumvention device within the meaning of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, Title 17 United States Code Section 1201(a)(2)(3). Providing or offering Linux to the public on your system or network violates the provisions of Section 1201(a)(2) which prohibit the manufacturing, importing
or offering to the public, providing, or otherwise trafficking in an unlawful circumvention device. (Title 17 United States Code Section 1201 et seq. hereafter is referred to as the DMCA).
We therefore demand that you take appropriate steps to cause the immediate removal of Linux from the above identified Internet site, along with such other actions as may be necessary or appropriate to suspend this illegal activity. Failure to comply with this measure will subject you to liability as described above.
We also request that you:
1. maintain and take whatever steps are necessary to prevent the destruction of all records, including electronic records, in your possession or control related to this Internet site, account holder or subscriber, and
2. provide appropriate notice to the subscriber or account holder responsible for the presence of Linux on your system or network, advising
him/her of the contents of this notice and directing that person to contact the undersigned immediately at the email address provided above.
By copy of this letter, the owner of the above referenced Internet site and/or email account is hereby directed to cease and desist from the conduct complained of herein.
On behalf of the respective owners of the exclusive rights to the copyrighted material at issue in this notice, we hereby state, pursuant to the DMCA that we have a good faith belief that the acts complained of are not authorized by the
copyright owners, their respective agents, or the law.
Also pursuant to DMCA, we hereby state, under penalty of perjury under the law of California and under the laws of the United States, that the
information in this notification is accurate and that we are authorized to act on behalf of the owners of the exclusive rights being infringed as set forth in this notification.
Please contact us at the above listed address or by replying to this email if you should have any questions.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. Your prompt response is requested.
Respectfully,
Haminshu Nigam
Director
Worldwide Internet Enforcement
http://saveie6.com/
Ok, why is it every desktop looks just like Windows Explorer? Can't the design teams come up with something that is functionally equivalent, but is "different"? Or is it that MS got something right?
I just installed Redhat's Null the other day, and it does a fantastic job of anti-aliasing fonts right out of the box. In fact, the installer's and Open Office's fonts are anti-aliased as well! :)
Why do I keep typing pythong?
Glad to see they are keeping up to date on this thing...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Not to mention that he forgot head....
Your point is well taken.
If Microsoft lowers its price to compete with Linux, its gross revenue is likely to decline. Any economist or business person for that matter can tell you that if you lower your price and your sales volume does not increase sufficiently to offset that lower price, your gross is going to take a hit. And, once that begins for Microsoft it will not end.
Raise the price and loose customers to linux. Lower the price, reduce gross revenue and loose stockholders.
It is a tough call to make.
And, if the same idiots who testified before the court are advising Microsoft now they will get it wrong and harm Microsoft even more. But, my guess is they were just lying in the court room hoping to fool the court.
The key to the future for Linux on the desktop is going to be the combination of SUN at the corporate account level, Xandros, Lindows and others at the consumer level and Redhat/Mandrake and others at the developers level.
And, then you have DELL who is beat up for trying.
My guess is that IBM and HP will follow SUN's lead in regard to linux on the desktop and give it a real effort. As for DELL, GateWay and a few other Microsoft OEMs, they do not really depend upon Unix/Linux servers for a major part of their business. Maybe DELL thinks it does. But, they have been told what they can and can not do by the idiots at Microsoft.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Lindows et al also provide daemons.
They just don't focus on them. Like Mandrake.
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
> Speaking of which, what's the deal with GUI installers in the first place?
Non linearity is the importance. A gui installer can show non linear information to the user that can be important in trying to make choices. For a simple example the Mandrake installer shows all the installation steps down the left hand column. That way the user knows:
a) What issues they are likely to need to address in this step
b) What issues they are likely to need to address in later steps
c) how to back if an earlier choice becomes wrong in retrospect
I'll choose an install I did about a year ago as a good example. I had a laptop with a broken video card so the only reasonable use for this machine was to set it up as a server. I wasn't sure where I turned powermanagement off:
1) Did I make sure not to install power management packages?
2) Did I have to do this post install?
3) Was there going to be a seperate step?
I could shoot ahead to certain places that power management might show up see what the steps were and thus knew that I didn't have to worry about this in the later steps.
Another thing I did was because the harddrive was not large was shoot forward to the "resolve dependencies" part to get an idea of how much space I had left then popped back to package selection. This non linearity (i.e. resolving dependencies multiple times) is an atypical need but allowed me to learn vital information for the package selection process.
The website even looks like it was designed by microsoft? Who the hell wants another windows clone? Linux isn't coming to the desktop anytime soon, when are these companies going to learn. You want unix on your desktop, buy a Mac.
Note, I said desktop environments, not window managers. I am well aware that Enlightenment, IceWM, BlackBox, and WindowMaker all look different. They are not, in and of themselves, desktop environments, though, like KDE and GNOME are.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Sure. Anyone who built their computer or got a custom one built at a local "mom and pop" shop. From what I understand, Microsoft has cut down on piracy in these situations quite a bit, so generally these places will add about $100 or so to your computer's cost for Windows.
I won't even bother mentioning those Wal-mart Microtel computers...
The first ever Ultimate Frisbee video game: here (now
The point is choice, really. If you like depending on one vendor for everything, go ahead. If you think the price of MS products is fair now, you're not alone. But what keeps MS from charging anything they want once they implant their OS on every desktop machine out there? What makes you think that Windows 2005 will be a few hundred bucks a seat? You do notice that you start to depend on Microsoft for everything once you start using their OS? And is anyone naive enough to think that hardware DRM and "secure platform" initiatives are designed for anything other than making Windows an inseparable part of every PC? If you believe that, simply consider the fact that the entertainment industries have been whining about DRM since 1996, but Microsoft just started to implement it.
If someone doesn't start promoting alternative platforms now, it will be far too late to do anything once MS decides to start tightening the screws.
1. a UltraEdit-like text editor with all the bells and whistles
2. a CuteFTP-like ftp client that can remember the accounts and is as *cute*
3. a SecureCRT-like SSH client with account list
4. port Trillian
5. make Cut & Paste work between all applications
By the way, until Flash, Adobe and Macromedia have some equivalent on linux, we are tied to Windows. Until then I have a partition with linux desktop and I log in from time to time to play...
ln -s /bin/umount /bin/unmount
:)
because its intuitive to type the un sometimes...and people fuck up
Ok every time i post about Mandrake someone rips into my sig. It is there on purpose. I know that the actual command is "umount" but what the command does is "unmount". It sounds better if your not "umounting a women". Jesus everyone needs to calm down and realize that console skills arent required BECAUSE of distros such as mandrake. Personally i am very good at using a console and it helps me a lot but whenever i install mandrake on a windows convert's computer i dont even install a console interface. It just needlessly confuses them and if they later feel like they want to explore the OS more i simply tell them the very short command to install it off the cd's.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep