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Laptop Fuel Cells Approved For Air Carriage
gilgsn writes "According to reports in BusinessWeek, the US Department of Transportation has ruled that a new fuel cell developed by US company Polyfuel can be taken on airplanes. The announcement clears the way for the commercialisation of fuel cells as an alternative to batteries in notebook computers. The use of direct methanol fuel cells on aeroplanes has been questioned as they contain methanol, which is flammable. According to Jim Balcom, Polyfuel's CEO, the US DOT said that a fuel cell designed by his company could be taken into aircraft cabins when it goes on sale because it contains a relatively low concentration of methanol. Fuel cells are viewed as a promising power source in notebook comptuers as they are instantly refuellable (using fuel cartridges) and will power laptops two to three times longer than standard batteries. Full Story." This will be more exciting news when the fuel cells are actually available.
Does this mean we're going to see laptops take the same direction as deskjets? Please say it isn't so, I fucking hate paying for those refills, it's an abomination.
Is your browser retarded?
so how safe are these new fuels? I'd hate it if they were to cause problems in mid-air....
Anything that is powered by oil will be quickly approved as long as Bush is in office, no matter how dangerous.
Instant Karma's gonna get you - John Lennon
Same as trying to boost a car and mis-connecting the jumper cables.
Could this be the result of a payoff?
What we see depends on mainly what we look for. -- John Lubbock Now search for that bug slave!
We all laughed when Bender refueled himself by slamming an "Olde Fortran" ale, but now it looks like alcohol _is_ going to be computer fuel soon! Who knew?
A Wired article touched on this previously.
The neat thing are the carbon nanotubes used to drive these things. NEC is working on fuel cells for phones.
---
Interview with GoDaddy President Bob Parsons
Jim Balcom, Polyfuel's CEO, the US DOT said that a fuel cell designed by his company could be taken into aircraft cabins when it goes on sale because it contains a relatively low concentration of methanol.
Just one might have a small amount, but what about the person who carries a bag full of them? Initial excuse being that there will be only a few places to get these when they first hit the market.
Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes
Good to hear. This is a very promising technology. I remember seeing on TV not too long back, and fuel cell prototype for a PocketPC that just needed a few drops of water added to it once a day. It was sure a lot quicker add some water to the fuel cell than having to plug the thing in a wait around for a battery to charge. Now if they can just make them consumer friendly.
Maybe they can be refueled at the lavatory.
33 years old and still making potty jokes. It's sad, really.
Li-ion isn't the safest technology, When Lithium Ion batteries were first released 4 years ago(Sic!) they were actually banned from transportation on aircraft. Unsolved problems with batteries exploding violently resulted in the ban. [transair.com] Let's hope that some lessons has been learned and this won't happen this time around. Though, Li-ion batteries are still used today because of better safety regulations [nec-tokin.net] and even built in microprocessors to protect from overcharging. Lithium will still explode or overheat if charged at a too high voltage and if it catches fire, don't try to put it out with water!
The advantages of Li-ion obviously outweight the hazards and since fuel-cells don't seem any worse they will probably get accepted too. Apart from
better performance they might find a niche already because of normal batteries abysmal heat specifications. My laptop battery is not to be operated at temperatures higher than 35 degrees celcius, which really is impossible to achieve if you are using the computer standing on a desk. Not considering people in hotter countries or scientists at the southpole...
Look here for a more balanced story on battery technology [extremetech.com]
Yes. Of course. "Yes sir, please take a 'relatively' low concentration of one of the world's most flammable substances on board!" Sounds like a GREAT idea. It's all too easy to start a fire with these, though. Unless the concentration is REALLY low, these are not safe. And if the concentration is too low, I would imagine the effectiveness declines. Also: can you take fuel cartriges aboard? That would be helpful the traveller, but also even more dangerous.
Everything is mainstream now.
I'll buy a laptop that has a methanol fuel cell in it when I can plug my laptop into any wall socket to recharge my methanol supply. Sure methanol may last way longer, but the readily availiable supply of electricity far outweighs the benefits of the longer lasting fuel cell.
Bork!
I mean, if they last for 13 hours on end then gee whiz! I want one.
However, if tehy do not last long, and users are having to swap them out constantly, doesn't that pose a fire hazard? (having 2 fuel cells per lap top toting passenger?)
It would saem that methanol wouldn't be that big of a problem. The first aide kits on planes have rubbing alcohol in them!
I say go for it!
it seems the guy in front of me has been bringing gas on airplanes for years... did this really need to go to court?
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
We already allow people to accidentally carry on more dangerous materials such as containers under pressure, pocket knives, knitting needles, and illegal MP3s. What is the harm with someone finally having enough battery power to operate their laptop for the duration of a flight from LA to Hong Kong? Nothing.
Hydrogen is much less dangerous than everyone in the pro-oil community is saying. It wasn't even the cause of the Hindenburg fire, as the mythical tale of why hydrogen is bad says. If we are going to fly on planes with tonnes of flammable material under our butts, then what is the harm of having some flammable material in a much smaller quantity on our laps? If we outlaw everything that might catch fire, then we shouldn't allow fat people on planes, because their fat may liquify, and they would spontaneously combust.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I can see it now - all those busines-class air travelers sitting with their laptops open, little puffs of steam bubbling out every few minutes...
That being said:
This could be a boon to the more adventurous computer users. Instead of having to drag a solar pack around, and a bag of spare batteries, a jug of methanol and you'll be set for weeks!
What will the new measurement be - MIPS/liter?
I am not a robot. I am a unicorn.
One thing to ask is, how much do these suckers weigh, and how big are they? If they're huge and huge they're not going to embraced by laptop users. The PDF file has a picture of a fuel cell (p8) that's the length of laptop. Some laptops still use big ones like that but many have made more compact batteries. Another page shows an external-type cell (p14), which might be nice for airlines, etc, but at the size given isn't anything hugely innovative.
The article also states that they power laptops 2-3 times longer than standard batteries. So what's standard? Between different laptops, and depending on activity, there can be a significant difference how long batteries last. A hard estimate of how long they last under normal conditions (no CD's etc running all the time) would be a lot nicer. Call me suspicious but they also say 2-3 times longer than standard batties. My laptop doesn't run very long at all on a few AA's (insert smiles here).
Lastly, just a poke at the article because I hate lazy editors:
also -notebook comptuers- it would be nice if the reporter could spell
Why the heck are they worried about flammable alcohol in my computer when the stewardess will give me two shots of 100 proof vodka that burns quite nicely?
The announcement clears the way for the commercialisation of fuel cells as an alternative to batteries in notebook computers.
Fuel cells are very promising but do not yet perform on par with normal batteries (in terms of life/ cost / weight).
When they do, I am sure that airline safety will be the smallest of concerns.
Tor
This could turn into a big cottage industry for local stores. For $10 a month you could have a pair of fuel cells out, and once they are gone you drop them up and pick up two more. I sure as hell would pay the extra for the longer battery life.
First cars are going to electrical motors, now laptops are using fuel cells. Why not a diesel powered cell phone ?
Next thing you'll tell me is that there is like a tenth planet or something.
Damn slashdot. I used to be a normal person.
"One for you, one for me. One for you..."
One way or another, today's young go-getters are going to end up high on meths. Oh the canadian irony.
-- Proud descendant of semi-nomadic cattle-herders.
In fact, if these fuel cells work with ethanol, maybe you could just order vodka or rum to power them :-)
Sounds nice. I don't understand how you "refill," though. If I have to carry around a can of methanol everywhere, then it's not worth it--not to mention how expensive it will get to keep buying methanol.
Actually Bush is more that thrilled to force any form of Methanol powered device down on us. All those states out there with too much corn money and too many electoral votes have the White House in thier pockets. Currently Bush is trying to punish California by making us add Methanol to our Gasoline to improve emmisions, despite the fact that the gasoline sold in California is alreay below federal limits without any additives. It is just another stupid revenue stream for the good ol' boys.
Why in the hell would anyone want a power supply that you cannot recharge?? I wouldn't want to keep buying methanol cartridges for it every
time it ran out of power. If they are going to put fuel cells in notebooks, they need to use HYDROGEN fuel cells. At least, then, you could
recharge it. You would just have to take the
H2 canister out of the notebook and put it in its AC "charger", which would use electrolysis of water to re-fill it with hydrogen. So I really don't think this methanol thing is going to fly.
I hope that some one comes up with a smalll enough package that it can be designed to fit into the variouse packaging design that diffrent Laptop makers have for there batteries. I would certainly purchase a fuel cell for my laptop.
True capitalism = lots of similar companies = jobs for everyone who wants one.
Screw the airplane--what about my lap? I mean seriously, an airplane is a lot harder to set aflame than my cordurouys.
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
As much as I'd like to run my laptop on fuel cells, this sounds like a potential loophole for carrying far more-flammable fuels onto airplanes. Not that there are people who would go to the trouble of implementing something like that when they could just fill their shoes...
... but this post doesn't excite me as much as it might have a year ago. The problem is that I fear laptops will sooner or later be banned from airplanes due to wireless interference concerns.
I've been looking at laptops lately, a lot of them have built in 802.11 and bluetooth. Problem is: how do you know if they are on or off? The average business user who has no idea what his/her laptop is capable of is expected to know to turn the wireless stuff off. Because of this there has been chatter about banning laptops all together.
It seems to me that air-travel should be a larger concern for mobile devices these days. My cell phone that has all these organizer and game features doesn't have an 'airplane' profile that shuts down the transmitters on it. Should laptops have 'Airplane' profiles too?
In any case, I know it's a little off topic. It's nice to see a company saying "we'll get this approved for use in the air", but arguably air travel is their target market. Personally, I wouldn't invest in them until I knew more about what the future holds for computing devices in the air.
"Derp de derp."
the path to commercial Mars trips has finally been cleared now that the Ministry of Transportation and the Surgeon General have reached an agreement on policies for in-flight smoking.
While fuel cells are very promising, there still remain enormous challenges before they can compete with normal batteries, for example in terms of price, performance, weight and so on. When (if) they become a competitive alternative, then surely airline regulations wont be a significant hurdle for commericial success.
Tor
With the advent of these cells the manufacturers may no longer have the need to put in **more expensive** low power consumption components inside such as P4m and Radeon mobility...so would that mean that we may have to wear some sort of heat retardant clothes? Would that also reduce the incentives for low power consumption R&D? How about the fuel cell assembly itself...wouldn't it produce additional heat as well? Will we end up having water cooling on our laptops? Or better yet would they come with a power outlet as well so that we can charge our web-enabled 3G bluetooth (or wi-fi) phone while we surf the net? :)
Live for the present, learn from the past, and dream of the future!
I don't see the point here. Sure, they last longer, but they're far more cumbersome to replace/refill. If they lasted 15-20 times longer I could see it, but...
vapor ware?
Why dont the airlines simply provide outlets for recharging rather then allowing people to carry there own explosives on the plane? Why not just let terrorists walk on the plane with a box w/ 'explosives' written on the outside? John
Geek 2
Geek 3
Geek 2
Geek 1
Geek 3
*** Sound of several minutes of apparent use of tools ***
Geek 1
Geek 2
Geek 3
*** Static (or various moans and cries with a dark voice rambling "Liberate Tuteme Ex Infernus"(sp?) if you're in a marcabre mood.) ***
Hate me!
like the Boeing 727, 737, etc. I believe all of the newer Airbus 300 series aircraft (at least the 320 and 321) have DC power outlets in the armrests - in first class and in coach. The adapter to fit the socket (which looks like a smaller version of the 12V sockets in cars) costs about $80US-$100US.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
he he he haven't laughed like this in a while..mod'er up!
i was thinking a little while back: "man wouldn't it nice if we had atomic power, like minature tokamacks or whatnot for cars, cd players, laptops, etc etc.
and then it hit me -- no way man, it would suck ass. when you can store enough energy to run a car for 50 years in the size of a gas tank, what happens if something goes wrong (as it obviously will) with the storage? if somebody *intentially* sets it off, etc?
there are all these scientists out there who are striving for higher and higher power density in energy storage -- but i think there is an end; not necessarily the "diminishing returns" end, but a "maybe it's not a good idea for a AA battery to have enough juice to power a cadillac" -- because when you get enough power density in everyone's hands, everyone will have the power to blow a whole lotta stuff up.
this will probabbly become the next great hurdle in energy storage -- and ironically it's not even a technical challenge, but rather a socialogical one.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
I agonize over buying a laptop for 2 months, and then 5 hours after I decide they come out with one that can run for 3 times as long...
For an encore I intend to learn 4 dead programming languages, get a job at an internet company just before they go under, and commit suicide 10 minuets before they announce my winning lottery ticket.
Ahh who cares, in 3 years they will discover methanol fuel cells cause cancer.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
And used butane lighters to light their smokes? I imagine the amount of fuel in these cells is less than the amount of butane in a bic lighter, besides, fuel cells are not really a puncturable container that could spill its methanol (and let it light up)
I can't see direct-methanol fuel cells not making it to production and widespread use in all sorts of things from laptops to cars. They have all the positive qualities of regular (hydrogen) fuel cells, but they have a few more really significant advantages:
1. They're easily rechargable. Anyone can pour a weak methanol solution from a bottle into a fuel cell's reservoir, but not everyone has the equipment (or desire) to store compressed hydrogen in their home or car.
2. They're stigma-free. Mention hydrogen and the first thing many people think of is the hindenburg. While it's true that hydrogen was _not_ the cause of the disaster (entire thing was covered in flammable paint), many people think it is and will shy away from hydrogen-powered cars and appliances for that reason. As far as I know, there have been no significant disasters for which methanol has been blamed. (Disclaimer: I may be wrong.)
3. A weak methanol solution really is safe - it's not going to hurt you unless you drink it. (Methanol isn't drinkable alcohol, that's ethanol. Methanol is converted by the body into formaldehyde, the stuff you use to preserve dead things.)
If you ran out of fuel, you could just ask the stewardess for one of those little bottles of vodka..
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Most People dont realize what bad people could make into weapons. For example, Go to the gift shop at the Air Port, buy a disposable camera, open it up and there is a large capasitor being powered by a AA battery. If you touch the wrong part on the curcuit board you can get a pretty nasty shock. Im sure someone could use that to take down a plane. Or modify a camera and install a larger capasitor that would do more harm. Stick that to someones neck and they will be in alot of pain. Sorry to sound evil, but its scary on what normal things can be turned into weapons. So I can see why they can be leary about Computer batteries.
keanmarine.com
I hate to see it so soon, but I gaurantee everyone here that we'll soon start seeing ad campaigns against these things in public. They'll be pushed by these same, uninformed opinions.
Sigh...such is free speech.
What's this Submit thingy do?
The new Toshiba Portege 2000 has a single button on the side to turn on/off the 802.11b wireless antenna.
And I've been sitting here wondering why the hell they would put it on there. Thanks for the clue!
Are you?
Ethanol is what is in your martini, and your smirnoff, and even in real vodka (snicker).
Methanol is what you find in rubbing alcohol, and is most definately a petroleum product.
If this is any more than vapor, this is excellent news for alternative transportation.
:)
Here's why: People have been working hybrid electric vehicles and decent batteries for decades. It was ONLY AFTER the cell phone and laptop boom that there was any significant advancement in rechargeable battery technology. So now we can make HEVs (and hopefully real electric vehicles).
If the idea of using fuel cells in laptops, cell phones, etc. takes off, we might end up with a generation of very useable fuel cells that we can apply to vehicle technology.
Of course, Detroit, Evil Oil Companies, and Starbucks will probably conspire and prevent this from happening
It won't matter how much current is available. if it won't arc at 12v at distance X, it won't arc at 12v at distance X even if the thing can sustain 200 amps or something rediculous like that.
I=E/R
From the posts I've read here, I've gathered:
1) In small quantities methanol isn't harmful.
2) Fuel cells aren't easily to puncture accidentally.
So, exactly how many batteries would be needed to create a harmful amount? People of malicious intent could easily bring 3 batteries each.
And are they easy to puncture when done on purpose?
The safety of these devices isn't wholly inherent in how they operate in normal situations. We need to look at them and say "could these be a weapon?".
...of Osama saying "Hrblt k jethig Beowulf ad og" (Imagine a Beowulf cluster of thóse...)
+++ath0
Some laptops use as much as 70 watts of power. That's not much less than a human being uses at rest (such as sitting in an airline seat). Airlines barely circulate enough air into the cabin now to keep people from passing out. With fuel cells sucking up more of the available oxygens, airlines may have to provide more air--and they might not get around real soon to doing that. I hope it doesn't cause anyone serious breathing problems.
There have been several mentions of using a red or infrared laser to blind cameras. Has anyone tried the green laser pointers now available?
If I drive fast enough at the red light, it'll appear green.
I know that this post may be OT, but the post that this is a reply to WAS NOT. Whoever modded that down either didn't read the article, didn't get the joke, or some combination of both. That post was a reference to the laptop being safe for airline travel, implying that similar laptops are unsafe. Now do you get it?
I'm starting to see how this is all going to pan out. Apologies to those who already figured it out.
so HP makes most of its money off of proprietary inkjet refill carts. It's the disposable razor model, where you get the printer for a song, but the supplies suck you dry. now with fuel cells, for the sake of 'safe transferrance' of fuel to the cell, the fuel cell supplier will sell you fuel packs in proprietary cases (probably with microchips (ala Epson ink carts) to deter 'piracy' (ie third parties)). The batteries will go for a song, and at $10 each the refills won't seem prohibitively expensive. heck, you could get a 10-pack for $70 at costco, most likely.
But use them day after day for your commute to work, use them on planes, on vacation so you don't have to lug a power supply (since you'll be able to buy them on demand all over the world, like film) and suddenly a huge new industry emerges, because we're too clumsy to put methanol into a compartment without NASA-level safeguards.
Yeah, I'm bitter, but this is how the world works. Things don't come to market because they're better; things come to market when people figure out how to get rich off it.
Kevin Fox
To pose a more important question, "Why recharge slowly, when you can refill directly and with less waste?" You want to wait for electricity being generated hundreds of kms away to slowly reorganized the chemistry in your battery, or just readd the needed chemistry parts, right there instantly?
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I was reading in a science fair book that you can make methanol from household garbage using a pressure cooker. Free battery power!!! Good for the environment too.
Do the airport security screeners tell that the liquid in the cell is what it's supposed to be?
I'd prefer Ethanol as a fuel, at least if it can tolerate a small amount of water rather than requiring anhydrous. Airplanes could start carrying the full-strength Everclear (apparently the 192-proof is illegal in California, so we can only get 151 here, but I assume the real stuff is available.) (For non-US readers, this is 96%-pure ethanol, with the other 4% being water.) And unlike methanol, it's relatively non-poisonous. So while you wouldn't have a fuel line feeding directly into your laptop from the airline seat, it'd still be convenient, and you could drink the leftovers....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Where can I read more about this newfangled "air carriage" you speak of? Is it anything like Doctor Flavinbottom's ocean-going mechanical horse?
Truly, this is an age of marvels.
``Life results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.'' -- Richard Dawkins
2 to 3x of laptop use? I have a pack of AAA's that says that as soon as these are available laptops will use 2 to 3x as much power.
In grade school physics class we made methanol and ethanol from wood. Taking what amounted to skinny popsicle sticks and heating them in a test tube we were able to get both methanol and ethanol out of it. Granted, this may not be the most economicaly efficient way to obtain methanol, but it's not strictly a fossil fuel derrivative.
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I'm pretty bent out of shape by the whole "airport security" thing.
I don't have and answer, but the problem is that politics suck. We are losing our civil liberties daily for no real benifit.
To wit: if two guys with box-cutters can hijack an airplane, then two guys armed with somthing like "CIA-001 or CIA-003 could. And anyone who is comitted enough to commit suicide by flying a plane into a building is surely comitted enough to get through security with one of these up his ass. I say that not to be crude, but to illustrate what we are up against.
The bottom line is that tightening the noose around our own neck is not going to save us. Handing box-cutters out to passengers as they board would be more effective than every security measure implemented before September 11, or since.
Recall that they fourth plane didn't hit a building. The passengers of United 93 went through the same screening process as everyone else. The difference was that those passengers took a stand. A hell of a lot harder stand than the one it would take on our part to reverse the tide of cowardace that we are sweeping our freedoms away in.
Your government can't protect you. Your government is not obligated to protect you (see South v. Maryland).
Let's take the plunge and live free, huh?
-Peter
Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't most laptop batteries flammable - most seem to have all sorts of warnings plastered over them warning not to dispose by fire, etc...
,it's time to pour more liquid nitrogen over the CPU......
Then again, my laptop gets hot enough to fry an egg, but has yet to burst into flames... Speaking of which
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
It's been about 13 years ago, but I remember an article in Popular Science that was talking about mixed-hydrocarbon fuel cells that would run on gasoline, methanol, ethanol, propane and probably some others. Since then, I've seen very little discussion of fuel cells that wasn't hydrogen based.
If we can have methanol fuel cells to run laptops, is there any particular reason we can't get them sized up to do things like run cars? Methanol's a lot easier to come by than hydrogen, a lot easier to store, yadda yadda. The only downer is that it breathes out CO2 and water, instead of just water. But so do you. Um, and me too.
The whole idea as I understood it was that these things produce electricity lots more efficiently than piston or turbine based generation.
I must be missing something.
In Brazil, which doesn't have any oil, they have been producing methanol from cane sugar amongst other things.
As long as there are babies and children wailing on planes, there's too much damn oxygen in the plane as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps the drain of oxygen by my laptop will keep everyone around me quiet, and I can use my laptop in peace.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I can't quite remember how the refills worked, but I had the feeling they came in disposable bottles - are these bottles also OK'ed for taking on planes, or are we back to square one when they realize we have to check luggage to have spare power for the laptop when we arrive?
I'm personally not convinced it's going to be more convienient to find a fuel cell refill than a power outlet for the next 10 years or so. Even if the battery life is longer (which is great), when you're out, you're out and I don't want to have to play parent to my laptop and take a thousand bottles of "laptop formula" with me on trips to feed the thing.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
OK, at the mo', we plug out laptop into the mains to recharge.
..." (alongside "... fitted with mobile phone blockers for uninterupted peace..." :).
Soon, we're gonna recharge with an aerosol of cigarette lighter or something similar.
It'll be silly putting handling for batteries into a laptop, it will just add weight - hey, everyone is using those fuel cells now.
So, in future, laptops don't get plugged into the mains, they get a line of methanol.
This will be the next big thing in managed offices and luxury housing - "... fitted with cat5e cabling and methanol to every room
(Seriously, I think that a docking station will do AC conversion as just now, and no-one will ever pipe methanol through their office, and certainly not through their home - whadaya think?)
Note to ACs: I won't mod you up, even if you are being funny or insightful. So take a chance! It's not real life!
The small quantities of methanol, and the dilution with water, means the risk is pretty low (you could cause more trouble, I guess, breaking out the lithium from your batteries and adding it to water - don't try this at home,folks).
For those who are asking, that article also explains why it is difficult to scale these cells up to automotive use.
One problem for the automotive industry is that methanol attacks many of the components of the current fuel distribution system, which is quite sensitive to the chemical composition of what it carries. At one time you could find carburetor conversion kits for some British motorcycles which included gaskets of different materials to handle this problem, and I tried this during the 1970s fuel crisis. Handling pure methanol without a standard fuel pump is not much fun, but it surely cleans out the carbon from the engine and the experiments were worth it just from that point of view.
And btw, rubbing alcohol WILL NOT WORK in your methanol fuel cell, neither will vodka.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
There was a lithium battery in a GPS device, back in the days before they put moderators in them to prevent them from exploding all the time for no good reason. This GPS device was sitting in the back of a plane that was on the ground and when it detonated, it essentially took the tail off the plane.
Well, considering that they sell liquor on planes, it is not a great leap of intellect to figure out that buying a couple of micro-bottles of scotch would be a lot easier than removing the liquid contents from your fuel cell. I can't imagine that your ethanol-as-a-weapon would be any less effective as your methanol-as-a-weapon. Maybe you could bring down a plane by starting a fire, but could you really comandeer it?
Yeah, you are right. I knew that, too.
I was thinking of isopropanol.
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