Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft: No Xbox for You!
Markel writes "According this this story in the Sydney Morning Herald, Microsoft is very concerned about a man having been acquitted after allegedly selling [mod chips for a PlayStation]. So concerned in fact, that they are saying: change the law, or they will have to reconsider selling the Xbox in Australia. Not selling the Xbox is well within their rights, but putting it in a (I paraphrase slightly) "change the law or we'll .." context seems assuming a bit too much. I guess well see how many of our MPs are XBox gameheads."
The trial in question was actually about a man who sold PS2 mod chips to allow PS2s to play imported and copied games. Not some magical chip that allows the Xbox to play PS2 games.
:)
Excellent editing there.
Nintendo, Sony, and other companies over the years have had to deal with mod chips and people who like to mod their hardware. Last I checked, these companies are not having financial difficulty because of modding.
What bug is up MS's butt?
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
...couldn't Microsoft just be saying this to try and kick up sales of the Xbox? If the government refuses to change its position, then there'll probably be panic buying of Xboxes before MS withdraws them from Australia.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
I don't think they'd change their law for a GAME console
Maybe in 20 years from now we'll all need to move to Australia to have some rights
"The majority is always sane, Louis." -- Nessus
http://slashdot.jp
Why should australia care if MS sells the XBox there? Are they in such a horrible financial situation that not having the third place console out of three consoles sales wise would hurt them that much? Or do people over there just play THAT many games? Sheesh, talk about ego on the part of Microsoft.
...can we convince this man to sell mod chips for Windows, Office, Passport...
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According to the Sydney Morning Herald, Microsoft might stop selling the X-box, but apparently, not stop advertising in australian institutions. Upon clicking the link, I was greeted by a Xbox Racing banner ad. Hmmmm.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
I think they have every right to do this
I don't think anybody is claiming that Microsoft doesn't have the right to sell or not sell XBox's wherever they please. However, this does not translate into the right to buy a law to suit their needs.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
If I was an MSFT shareholder, I would find this news troubling to say the least. "Here at Microsoft we believe marketshare and expanding the Xbox community comes after making sure 1 or 2% of Austrailian users aren't using our product to play the "competition's" games." To quote Randolph Duke from Trading Places: "SELL! SELL!" *boggle*
As an early post said the article is wrong. The guy was selling mod chips for the PS/2. He had nothing to do with the Xbox.
So what Ballmer- go pack up your Xbox and leave- and take all that lost revenue with you. The Xbox has had an unspectacular launch in Australia with retailers even refusing to carry the stock because Microsoft was screwing them on the margins (e.g. Harvey Norman).
I believe six of then are called Bruce
Help fight continental drift.
they are $199... just ignore that PS2 logo on the side of the box, its the only box i had left. OH, and you'll need these 'special' xbox controllers. (the ps2 logos on those were misprints from the xbox factory, don't worry).
here is now it work, plug in your xbox, now plug in this 'mod chip' to the same power strip, and they will communicate using WiFi... put your PS2 games, in the 'mod chip' after plugging it in, and plug the 'mod controllers' into the 'mod chip' everything should work fine out of the box.
ENJOY,
i take orders at my website below -|
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
I'm going to the Outback restaurant tonight. If I can't get a Fosters, I'm coming for you.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
After the launch of a Telstra mobile computing device, Mr Ballmer said the decision affected Xbox's business model, which relies on subsidising the hardware console in return for a royalty on every game sold.
The criminal law related to murder is bad for my business model as a hit man, which relies on accepting payment for people I have killed.
This is a hollow threat. Microsoft is simply going to *completely* concede the Australian video game market to Sony and Nintendo because they aren't getting their way.
Oh no! Please don't deny me your library of inferior games, Microsoft! Whatever would I do?
I put in my Vote for the Aussies withholding Fosters Beer.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
'Cause neither the poster nor the submitter appear to have read it.
Jesus Christ, Taco, are you paying people to do this shitty of a job? I sure as hell hope not.
of a company/industry seeking legal protection for an otherwise obsolete/broken business model. sound familiar?
Only common sense. Selling Windows is a profitable business, so there is no reason NOT to sell Windows. Existance of alternatives does not change anything. Selling XBOX is not profitable (money are made on games), so refusing to sell XBOX if money can't be made on games is reasonable.
What I don't understand is what is the big difference between Australian and imported games? It is probably the same games, the same royalties are being paid, and so on. Australians, can you explain this to us?
MSDOS: 20+ years without remote hole in the default install
If the disk was damaged or faulty, you'd return it under warranty.
Welcome, traveler, to our dimension! I hope you enjoy your stay here. What other strange customs do companies practice in your homeland?
the business model is fucked up. Price the DOS-box accordingly, and separate the games from the hardware. This is like giving mobile phones away for 10 cents and then bringing in the money on charges... totally fucked up as a long term business strategy. I bought a relatively expensive home theater system to watch DVD:s. Now, if they had sold this system for a bargain and then would have tied it to DVD sales for 50 bucks a title, I would never had considered buying DVD:s in the first place. Likewise, I have no game console, because the games prices are outrageous, which of course spurs pirating (unlike the DVD market, where prices are not unreasonable; the talk on piracy there is Valenti baloney). If anything is hurting M$, it is their own greed. Selling an expensive DOS-box plus fifty cheap games would benefit both Microsoft and the customer much more than selling an inexpensive DOS-box, ten expensive games and thirty pirated games. Furthermore, if there was no such licensing hassle, it would be a god damn big plus if the DOS-box could play PlayStation games! It would kill off PS, because DOS-box hardware is newer and better.
frawaradaR anahaha islaginaR!
To forbid the sale of anything Microsoft owns. Or at least make it look like they are going to. I bet Microsoft will be the one backpeddling then!
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
They are going to "reconsider" selling the xbox? They need every possible market to sell this money-loser. It would be stupid to lock out a whole market of potential buyers. Are they going to sit back and let Sony and Nintendo take over? If this were true, Sony would want to lose this modchip case, it would end up helping them in the end.
I just don't buy it.
This is a prime example of when someone should call Microsoft's bluff.
Any law changes they make should be set to expire in a year, when Microsoft will have discontinued the X-Box and they'll be $49.95 at Toys-R-Us. I wonder if I will be able to interface my IntelPlay(R) Microscope to an X-Box?
PS/2 + modchip = CanPlayThirdPartyGames
Canon + adapter = CanUseThirdPartyLenses
...one year!
Could this be that a country has recognized that a PS2 or an Xbox or other high-tech toy is really not any different from a toaster? Sunbeam has no say over what we do with a toaster after we buy it. If we choose to turn a toaster into a robot, or modify it into a rotisserie oven, that's our right. We can modify it in any way we choose to. If I were to offer a modkit to turn a toaster into a rotisserie oven, that is my right, but more importantly, that is the right the consumer has under common law. Current IP laws are in direct conflict with this, how it ends is any ones guess, but it is an interesting fight.
Do the words "significant non-infringing use" mean anything to these people? It's their own fault really. If companies would drop this price-fix^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hregion-coding nonsense so that the only real use of modchips was to play copied games, I might have a tiny bit of sympathy for them, but not as long as they keep sneaking in these extra restrictions that have nothing to do with copyright. Don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out, MS.
to have the Xbox play PS2 games. This would involve building an emulator and would be very difficult with the PS/2's proprietary hardware.
Bleem! tried this with the PS-one emulator for the PC. They were never able to get it working without bugs and it was not able to play all the PS-one games. They eventually went out of business (and the fact that Sony was suing them left and right didn't help either).
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
The decision in the case (Kabushiki Kaisha Sony Computer Entertainment v Stevens [2002] FCA 906) is available here
This was the first attempted prosecution in Australia under the changes introduced in the Copyright Amendment (Digital Agenda) Act 2000, and Sony has vowed to appeal the above adverse decision to the full bench of the Federal Court.
If their business model is so dependent on you buying certified Xbox games then why don't they just make a contract that you have to sign when purchasing it? It could be for say a duration of 12 months during which time you can't modify the hardware, then after that time you can do what you want with it. Afterall it's your peice of hardware in the end. Although really, it looks as though they are running around like paranoid monkeys. Do we see Sony threatening not to sell Playstations in Australia?
Well if Microsoft holds even the slightest chance of changing the law, then I suggest anyone in Australia should go and tell their local Federal MP that they don't want this to happen. See How to Get Politicians' Attention and How to Visit a Politician for tips on dealing with politicians. Of course it has to be said that visiting your local MP in person is the most effective way of getting your point across.
Jeremy
Melbourne, Australia
Jabber Australia
If the disk was damaged or faulty, you'd return it under warranty.
I don't chip my consoles, but I can cite a personal experience where I did something similar on my PC.
Around the time Diablo II came out, I snagged a copy relatively cheaply at a blowout store in my area. Because I was pretty busy with work, I put it on a bookshelf and forgot about it for about a year and a half.
When I finally got around to playing it, I found out that someone had opened the box and keyed one of the discs. I was able to play the original game just fine, but when I bought and installed the expansion, it couldn't verify that the disc was valid.
Under Blizzard's support policy, I would have to mail them the disc and $10 for a replacement, because of the length of time since I actually bought it, not having the receipt anymore, etc.
I'm not willing to pay again for a product I own, so I used CloneCD to dupe a friend's disc.
Granted, the vast majority of the people who chip their consoles do so to pirate games. However, there are a lot of legitimate reasons to do so also - playing imports, situations like mine, running unlicenses/homebrew software, and so forth.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
"Change the law or no native australian Xboxes"... thats what it sounded like. Everyone will import them from US or Japan, and play games on them, with the modchips that let them do so.
Someone at Microsoft didn't think this one through. Austrailia appears to be well on the ball regarding the rights of its citizens to access content they've purchased. The ACCC (http://www.accc.gov.au/) routinely stands against region restrictions in various forms, whether its games or dvds.
Will they budge? Who knows. This is all saber rattling on Microsoft's part, since whether or not they cut XBox sales in Australia, they'll still get the (well, negative amounts of) money when consumers start importing.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
I just saw the last shred of journalistic integrity go down the fucking drain here! XBox mod chip to play PS2 games my ass!
Why not just let the trolls post stories about free RAM with links to goatse.cx?
Slashdot Reader: Oh wow, free ram OH MY GOD THAT IS SO SICK MY EYES MY EYES THEY BURN ARrrrrr....
Damn it.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
XBoxes or Windows... does anyone remember when Micro$oft made comments some time back that an unfavorable DOJ ruling would force Micro$oft to reconsider selling Windows??
Another example of how Microsoft thinks of its customers and of itself in relationship to them.
Yes, they may stop selling XBox in Australia. Will this matter in the long run? Probably not. Those in Australia who really want an XBox will buy one by other means and the world will keep spinning in the same manner as it always has.
The only concering thought is that Microsoft thinks they will prevail and if they do, what other products will they threaten to pull?
What about Windows XP and updates... now that there is some feedback to Microsoft about what copies of Windows are used and where is it conceivable that Microsoft may use this new data as justification to stop selling or disallowing users from certain geographic areas to download needed product updates? Mmm our records show that x% of users from IP blocks designated to your county, province, country are actually pirate copies. Change the laws or we will cut all of your country off from updates.
"If there are aspects [of our business model] that are not allowed, it would encourage us to require a change in the legal framework."
Wow. Can you imagine what the head of Microsoft Autralia is thinking right now? His boss just said Microsoft would "REQUIRE" Australia to change it's laws. How do you think the Australian Government and citizens feel about Microsoft telling it what it requires.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
The article is right, the summary on slashdot is wrong.
After all, who in their right mind would think you could make a modchip to make an Xbox play PS2 games? they're entirely different architectures. You might as well gut an XBox and a PS2 and put the whole innards into the XBox case.
Still, it would be cool... imagine how many final fantasy savegames you could fit onto that harddrive.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
MS is probably willing to go to great lengths to keep the XBox market alive. They just reported huge earnings and have something like $30B cash so they can comfortably lose money on the XBox for years until they gain market share. For them to give up just because something didn't make economic sense right now wouldn't be like Microsoft. Look at their history, for crying out loud.
And if they do pull out just to spite you, well, no big loss. PS3 will probably be out before you could change your laws anyway.
From the article quoting Steve Balmer:
"If there are aspects that are not allowed, it would encourage us to require a change in the legal framework. Otherwise, it wouldn't make economic sense."
If the legal frame work of a given locality doesn't support your business model, don't use it. In the past few years we've all seen a bunch of crazy business models crash at full speed into the solid wall of reality. What Balmer is proposing here makes even the worst dot-bomb plan look sterling. Even groups like the RIAA and the MPAA can claim that "times and technology have changed" when they go to try to change laws. In this case MS is the newcomer to an existing markeplace that has had to deal with the problem of mod chips for quite some time. I suppose that this just shows that you don't have to smart to help run a multi-gajillion dollar company.
Hopefully the "change the law" business model doesn't become as popular as the "put it online and they will buy it" model was. If this takes off one can just imagine the headlines: "Company fails to buy law, declares bankruptcy." If that wouldn't be grounds for a mismanagement suit on the part of investors, I don't know what would be.
Never disturb your enemy while he is busy making a mistake.
Mandatory Princess Bride quote...
... And Australia, as everyone knows, is peopled with criminals and criminals are used to having people not trust them...."
BTW: There really is a print version of "The Princess Bride", in an abridged version by William Goldman, (Because the original by the esteemed S. Morgenstern is much too long and horrible to read.)
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
Wrong, sorry.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Refusing to sell windows would probably be a credible threat. It would
put a pretty severe short-term kink in your economy if every company had
to transition for Linux (or whatever) overnight. Refusing to sell a third
rate video console has minimal negative impact...it might even be a positive
benefit to society.
www.sjbaker.org
Great PR move! Multi-billion dollar American company issuing threats against a soverign nation. I'm sure that having their legislature kow-tow to arrogant foreigners will go over really well with Australian voters. Ballmer needs a clue. Threats are GWB's job. Steve is just a song and dance guy.
----------
Manifesto for the Peoples of the Third Millennium
In Oz, it's essentially illegal to enforce region coding, which this stoush seems to be about. It's considered anti-competitive. Similarly, a company cannot stop a product from being imported into the country, even if it already sold there (no anti-grey marketting laws). So basically you could still get your xboxen if you really wanted to and MS can do fuck all about it.
It's interesting to note that Visa and Mastercard are thretening similar action if the Reserve bank doesn't back down on some reforms.
One day, when we get rid of all the evil corporates, Australia will be the perfect place to live.
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Australia and Europe both get screwed 90% of the time when it comes to video games. Game releases always come out late and a lot of game companies do a really shitty NTSC->PAL conversion so it ends up being horrible. Most people in the world own American consoles and/or modified consoles.
Modchips that allow imports to play are perfectly legal. Just like multi-region dvd players are fine, but disabling macrovision is not. We defend this in Oz as we are often last to get releases even if they are released here at all. Due to our small market, sometimes the only way to get a game or dvd you want is to import it. The ACCC would fight MS on this one, as they fought the DVD companies over region zoning.
I really don't think they're going to ban the X-Box in Australia. (Just like they're not going to ban Windows in China, which is reported to have a very high piracy rate.) They're just fluffing hot air to manipulate opinion.
On the other hand, maybe some of these 'Microsoft sanctions' we've heard about would result in a laughable embargo against Australia. Gooooo Balmer!
"Xbox to play Sony PS2 games"
Huh? Wha? How can you play a completely unrelated game on a completely different hardware platform? If it's done via emulation, then why haven't we seen any emulators for the PC (which the XBox is an extremely closer equivilent to than a PS2)? Lets sum up a PS2: Proprietary CPU, proprietary GPU, a bear and a half to code for... Compared to an Xbox which is simply a PIII 750 with 64 Mb SDRAM and a proprietary knockoff of the Nforce chipset/GPU... Methinks the article poster needs to doublecheck his articles more often, especially since the article he refers to states specifically:
"Microsoft would be forced to reconsider selling the Xbox video game system in Australia, or seek changes to the law, following the acquittal in July of a Sydney man alleged to have sold chips that modify a Sony PlayStation 2 to play imported games, Microsoft chief executive Steve Ballmer said yesterday."
Microsoft is not complaining about XBox mod chips, they're complaining about Playstation 2 modchips, which, if not declared illegal in a court of law, set a precedent making mod chip manufacture/retailing for the XBox legal as well...
It helps to read the article now and then guys...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Sorry, you're bashing some 100 game developers under the Microsoft umbrella. XBOX happens to have a very good selection of games.
How do I know this? Because I own one.
Give credit where it's due. This is not "Linux vs. Windows" discussion so you can freebase on your own rage. Pay attention.
Well I know for playstation 2 there have been shitty conversions where the game was letterboxed and the frame rate was halved....I honestly don't know about Xbox or Gamecube though.
About 5 minutes after Microsoft refuses to sell Windows to a particular country, that country would probably pass a law rescinding copyright protection on any operating system that has a name starting with the letter 'W'. Problem solved.
It's no surprise to me that Microsoft is becoming more and more aggressive with it's dealings in Australia. They just recently lost their single biggest customer (Telstra). That deal is not finalised and it will be at least a couple of years before it has true impact, but the tide is turning here... against Microsoft.
The legal precedent in question took the nature: "If I buy a car, am I allowed to re-fit the engine?" The law granted that unless Sony gave a lifetime guarantee they had no further right to any single PS2 once it was legitimately sold to a consumer. The consumer had full rights to do whatever they wanted to that one instance of hardware because it is their property.
Personally, I back the argument in question and say that Microsoft should get a new business model (or make good on their threat and stop selling their shite here).
The Australians have not taken well, in the past, to companies not selling copyrighted materials there (because of the way the US and the Brits divided up the market), and passed a law to deal just with that. IIRC, it says, if you don't distribute your copyrighted material to Australia within [whatever the fairly short time limit is], anyone in Australia can print it. I haven't followed the progress of the law or British publishers' compliance with it, but to me it seemed a very good way to deal with a stupid situation that was created by companies that just didn't care when the Ozzies got to read the latest books.
Given that precedent, I don't think the Ozzies would take well a threat from Microsoft not to sell the X-Box there, and a similar law could be passed. And if the Ozzies got really pissed, they could probably just make Linux the preferred gov't software. And tax MS software. And be very unpleasant to MS otherwise. Lord knows, someone should be.
If we create a modchip which might slightly reduce the number of copies of MS Office sold.
Then:
1. Get scared about a modchip which might slightly reduce number of Office copies sold.
2. Withdraw Windows.
3. ???
4. Profit!!
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Lets not forget the ability to now play VCD's, DivX's and making the DVD player region free and also accept larger Hard Drives, none of which is illegal in Australia.
If and when I buy an XBox, I'll probably have about two games for it. It's primary function will be to act as a media station for my loungeroom, and for that it needs a modchip. I could care less about most XBox games, that is what my PC is for.
And those are the reasons the modchip was not declared illegal, and why MS's posturing will fall on deaf ears.
Nobody is claiming the intellectual property rights on behaving like a 3 year old ...
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
Australia gets heavily gouged on audio CDs, (despite the fact that the CDs are usually pressed in Australia, they cost considerably more than in the US).
Hence our laws were written to allow parallel importation, and to deny region control of copyright.
That is, its legal for an australian consumer to purchase legally, a CD, or computer game in the US, and self import it, for use in Australia. Often times, this is cheaper than buying them here, air-mail postage and all!
Therefore the devices are not purely circumventing copyright, but under Australian law, enabling fair first use by a paying customer.
Incidently, since parallel importation has been allowed in Australia, the price of CDs has been *mysteriously* held constant...
Amazing how little pressure it takes to control monopolies, and no suprises that the world largest monopoly, is threatening to take its bat and ball, and go home...
Also, there are a number of other laws that contribute to this - reverse engineering is a legal right, so someone can build mod chips in Oz (where do you think the majority of Samba core developers are?). In addition, our local consumer & competition board are investigating the whole region locking thing. From the various news reports going around, it seems like they are about to make region locking illegal because it is classed as anti-competitive. If that does happen (probably >80% chance given previous actions of Prof Fels) then mod chips will most definitely be legal in Oz.
Life is complete only for brief intervals in between toys or projects -- John Dalton
All your ships are belong to us!
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Wrong!
Lets see. Here's a list of upcoming Xbox exclusives. Exactly the same count as PS2. Which also has 38. Again, these are EXCLUSIVES.
Lets not forget DOA3 and Halo. Halo alone is worth the price of the console right there. If I had to choose between Halo and 50 PS2 games, the choice would be clear.
Again, I'm not defending piracy or Microsoft. I just tried to point out that Xbox is not a bad console as some of the users make it out to be.
I've seen a few outraged posts about the ps2 on xbox error in the writeup. Out of curosity, if you chipped your xbox, would you be able to run a playstation emulator under xbox linux? ;-)
Maybe msft should rent xboxes if they really don't want people dicking with them. Or they could just pour each one full of epoxy, so it's just one solid brick
Uh, you know, I'm pretty sure that this is something subjective.
MS to Australia: This is the Xbox, the most powerful gaming console. But you can't rent games for it, you can't buy games for it. Heck, you can't even buy the console itself in your country. You're lucky we show you this amazingy thing at all! Just remember, you can't play it!
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Look out for M$FT minions offering 'campaign donations'. I admit I am somewhat ignorant of Aussie politics (sorry ... can barely stand ours sometimes), but if politicians are the same the world over, you can expect that M$FT will be looking to seduce yours soon.
When M$FT comes calling to your politicians bearing gifts and speaking of making the necessary legal changes to favor M$FTs 'business model', I urge everyone Down Under to pick them up(M$FT, that is), drag them to the ocean, throw them in and tell them to swim for it.
An honest politician is one who STAYS bought.
-- Windows is not simply installed on a computer; it is inflicted.
Under treaties like NAFTA, a company can challenge the laws of a member country, claiming that the said member country is not allowing their product to be sold within the same environment that they enjoy within their own country. I wonder if something like this *did* happen how long would it take for microsoft to buy their way into a political fight to get the australian government to do what microsoft wants.
Open your mind to corporate interest RATM
Best site on the internet homestarrunner, specifically strongbad email
Couple of items.
1) Now is a really, really bad time to be telling us what to do about our own laws. We are in a state of mourning over the Bali Terrorist attack. A foreign company telling us to change our laws will go down like a lead ballon. The desires of a company to sell products is right at the bottom of important things list.
2) The regional encoding is likely to illegal under the Trade Practices Act (similar to the US Anti-Trust law by wider ranging). Currrently the ACCC (the statutory authority assigned to oversea compliance with the TPA) is taking DVD producers to court over this very issue. If the ACCC wins then regional encoding of games will also be illegal.
Microsoft is threatening to not sell the XBox in Australia due to a guy being acquitted for making mod chips. Now just above Australia, is China. Wasn't there some crazy stat that 78% (2000) of the software in China is pirated and Microsoft is still selling there? If I was a Microsoft share holder I would be concern on the focus of Microsoft. I think less XBox mods are going to sell compared to copies of Office or XP.
Now we'll have the australian hackers back working on Linux for PCs again instead! Woohoo!
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
That is possibly why the guy in australia got off. Their gov was doing an 'investigation' to decide whether sony was guilty of price fixing. Which they are; the whole idea is that people in different regions are willing/able to pay different amounts for a produce. They want their prices for each region to be as high as possible, without going over that region's consumer price limit.
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet
Australia was originally a prison colony.
cute kola bears and kangaroos. (pictures)
Even perverted kangaroos (1, 2)
Of course, if it weren't for Autralia, we wouldn't have nightmares about Yahoo Serious.
Sorry for the late post, but I just saw this article and I have to wonder if it isn't a bunch of crap on Microsoft's part. Let's say Australia calls the bluff, and doesn't do a thing. Is Microsoft seriously NOT going to sell Xbox in that market? And miss out on the chance to purchase that much more mindshare? Please. It would just be a bigger incentive for the modchip makers.
Microsoft is just full of itself, and trying to spread FUD like usual.
-ZOD-
The games do have to be programmed differently if they are going to be run on NTSC or PAL.
Oh really? PAL has two variations: the 625-line, 50-Hz PAL used for European TV, and the 525-line, 60-Hz PAL/M used for Brazilian TV and for European video games. PAL/M gives exactly the same pixel count (about 720x480) as the NTSC signal used in Japan and the USA. Thus, NTSC-style games on modern PAL consoles will run in PAL/M mode. (Older PAL consoles often halted the CPU during the extra scanlines of PAL, resulting in a slower game.) Not only do almost all PAL TVs multisync to both PAL and PAL/M signals, many can also display NTSC signals.
Another reason Nintendo releases at different times in different regions is they have a policy of only releasing a game after translating it to the local language
Then why not simultaneously release in the United States and the United Kingdom?
The real reason for region coding is the fact that different companies may own the copyrights or the exclusive licenses under copyright on a given work in different countries. For instance, Peter Pan fell out of copyright a long time ago in the United States, but the United Kingdom has passed a statutory perpetual copyright on the work and on all derivative works. The region lockout is intended partly to enforce parallel-import restrictions on works in markets where they don't have copyright clearance.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Ms is just looking for any excuse to stop selling the xbos these days huh?
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
Again, these are EXCLUSIVES
Caps lock means you're so sure of the exclusivity of those titles...
Battlefield: 1942
1942 was on the NES.
Buffy The Vampire Slayer
Fact: Willow has appeared in an NES game.
Ninja Gaiden
Not an exclusive. It has appeared on the NES. It's also coming to the Game Boy Advance, in a slightly modified form (different story because of unavailability of characters for licensing, but classic Ninja Gaiden gameplay is still there) as Return of the Ninja. ("Gaiden" means "sequel".)
Robotech
Fact: 1-800-Robotech was the phone number for Quarterdeck Software, publisher of the QEMM memory manager for DOS. US telephones don't have Q or Z in the mnemonic labels on their number keys, which is why Blizzard's American phone number had the word "SNOW" at one time.
Superman: Man of Steel
Superman appeared in a rather crappy (to put it lightly) Nintendo 64 title. What makes this new Xbox version so much better? (question, not flamebait)
Unreal Championship
Isn't that just UT or UT2003 adapted for a console? If so, I might as well run UT on my Quake/MAME cabinet.
WWF RAW 2
Panda wrestling?
Halo alone is worth the price of the [Xbox] console right there.
Super Smash Bros. Melee is worth the price of a GameCube console right there, and in a couple months, the GameCube will be getting its own Halo killer, called Metroid Prime.
If I had to choose between Halo and 50 PS2 games, the choice would be clear.
I thought of another bad PS/2 joke. Once Bochs is ported to PS2 Linux, does that mean that the Sony PS2 can in effect become a PS-Slash-2?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Too bad, so sad it hurts little old Microsoft that people modify their products.
While I can't speak to Australian law, specifically, the following is derived from general Anglo-American common law principles that are followed pretty much everywhere English is the primary language.
What you describe as Microsoft's RIGHT to pressure a government into using the criminal law against their customers is, I think, based upon a flawed understanding of the underlying legal framework.
Unlike the sale of a software license, which is arguably subject to a (might be, might not be) enforceable EULA, the sale of a game console is a sale of goods. Once I hand over my money at BestBuy, CompUSA or Fry's and I receive the goods, they are MY property, NOT Microsoft's. Their rights in the transaction are limited to the following:
While prohibition of anti-circumvention devices MIGHT be permissible with regard to items protected by copyright (i.e., DVDs, CDs), a manufacturer attempting to outlaw modification of a purely physical good they have sold is stepping WAY over the line. The reason for this is that there is NO enforceable contract inherent in an exchange of money for a physical good, and no attempt to wrap a hardware sale in a "thou shalt not modify" EULA is going to be enforceable.
Any court I can imagine that is governed by Anglo-American legal tradition is going to treat such an effort as pure overreaching by the seller for the purpose of locking out competition (like Microsoft hasn't tried THAT before).
Frankly, I HOPE Microsoft makes a SERIOUS effort to threaten Australia like the article appears to suggest they are. It's about time they found out that there is an effective limit to even THEIR market power.
For the benefit of those who weren't listening before, Microsoft's RIGHTS in a hardware sale are 1) a warranty that says, "if you try to modify it and break it you get to keep BOTH the pieces", and 2) the right NOT to sell in a particular market. I, for one, cannot see Microsoft forsaking the game console market in the entire Anglo-American portion of the world just because the law won't play their way.
utter rubbish
Amazing.
Razor companies sell the handle as a loss-leader, making up huge profits on the blades. Sure, some third-party blades that fit the handle come out that are cheaper, and the original company complains somewhat, but the vast majority continue to buy the "genuine article", and life goes on.
Ink jet printer manufacturers probably don't make a dime on the printers themselves: the profit is in the ink carts. Yes, some people buy refill kits, but still the vast majority buy the real replacement cartridges. Token complaining aside, the printer maker is happy.
The same is true, I'm certain, with the X-Box. There aren't that many modded systems out there to make more than the tiniest dent in actual sales of X-Box games. In a sane political environment, Microsoft would whine a bit but really, there would be nothing they could do, as the console belongs to the citizen and it should be none of Microsoft's business what anyone does with it.
Microsoft, however, has the advantage of being on the "right" side of the WIPO treaties which forbid all this "digital theft", and effectively remove a person's right to do what he/she wants with their own property. The USA was a "leader" in this: by passing the DMCA in 1998, they were easily the first Western nation to ratify this crap into what is now international law.
Most countries that signed onto the agreement haven't yet ratified it, but most are getting close to doing so.
Seems the Australian court system wasn't told how to rule properly on this issue. Ballmer thinks that a nudge may be required to make sure Australia is in line. Must be nice to have that kind of influence.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
I agree. Let us indeed not forget that people want to play their burned (pirated) VCD copies and downloaded (pirated) DivX movies on their hacked consoles. If we did, we might forget another reason that a law against mod chips might be a good idea.
I'll concede the point on DivX playback, but that still doesn't deal with legal VCD playback or region free DVD playback. I don't know about you, but I have a large collection of DVD's, some of which are from Region 1, as opposed to my native Region 4. My flatmate also has a decent collection of legal VCDs.
Just to expand on this a little...
The reason that regional encoding in general is viewed so dimly in Australia is simply because as a small market, Australia frequently gets hammered on prices relative to the rest of the world.
So, regional encoding looks like it's really set up to be price gouging to Australians.
There's been several investigations into, eg why CDs cost so much more in Australia than in other countries, or at least used to, before the exchange rate bombed.
Of course, this is the great thing about the internet. You can find the price of anything in nearly any market.
Frequently governments find this troubling, because it means they are missing out on sales tax, duties etc.
For corporations, I've heard of situations where they simply go and set up a subsidiary in the country which offers the cheapest relative price and do a corporate wide deal.
Consumers don't have that luxury, but Oz seems to have some resistance built up re this nonsensical price fixing by global corporations.
So does Anonymous Coward have good karma?
We're discussing Xbox vs. PS2, GameCube. We're not bringing PC gaming into it because that way the whole topic will degenerate into mindless drivel. Why in the world would you bring anything non-console into the argument? It's like comparing FreeBSD to Photoshop. Nice troll. Next time put more effort into it.
Lets just take this apart a little to see the stench inside shall we?
From the article:
Microsoft would be forced to reconsider selling the Xbox video game system in Australia
Now the spin:
Take the word 'forced', for example. Why exactly is that word in there? Who is forcing them? Is the force economic or social or some other force? Have they been given some sort of order that they must follow? How exactly does one force a large company like microsoft to do anything?
What they are saying is that they are forced to decide. Forced really adds little here because it is the deciding that actually matters and that is why decide is clearly the right word choice here, not forced. Indeed.
More from the article:
, or seek changes to the law, following the acquittal in July of a Sydney man
And the spin
Now they take that little bit of momentum gained from the poor use of 'forced' above and add to it. Here they polarize the issue. When one polarizes an issue, they generally have one good choice, which is the one they want you to identify with, and that other bad choice. Simple isn't it. Just change the law and things will be good because things can either be good or bad, and none of us wants bad so lets work together for good huh? Sounds reasonable doesn't it?
It's not. They limit all the avaliable choices to exactly two. The one they want, and the one that nobody wants. Realistically there are many other options avaliable to them, but that complicates things just a little. Can't have that when you are trying to sway public opinion about complicated things. Keep it simple, that way it's easier for everyone to see your point.
More from the article:
alleged to have sold chips that modify a Sony PlayStation 2 to play imported games
And the spin:
Alleged? Where do we normally hear that word? We hear that word when we refer to someone who we think committed a crime. This is a negative word, not a positive one... ever. Can you remember the last time you heard the word 'alleged' in connection with something good? I can't.
Now that's a pretty decent piece of spin because of what comes next. What is that you ask? The actual crime! In this case it happens to be selling chips that allow people to play imported games. There is so much wrong with this I almost don't know where to start.
Playing import games is legal for one. implying that this is a crime is clearly a deception no doubt about it. None. A simple thought exercise cuts right through that one. Here is mine:
You are in Japan playing a game you find interesting. You buy it, legally mind you, and bring it home. It does not work. You are frustrated to learn that the company who was happy to sell you the game is also responsible for the fact that you cannot use it at home. What to do? Return it? Wrong answer, you see you opened it when you tried to play your legally purchased game so thats out. IMport an entire console? Too expensive, besides you have one already and are trying to be a loyal customer, but too much is too much. What's left? Several things, but the most obvious is a mod chip. Simple easy and legal.
So this linking of crime and mod chips and import games sounds a lot like drugs. Shady people sell you some thing that is in poor taste. Playing import games is in poor taste, who does that? It all adds up to making the whole thing look bad. Which it clearly is not.
From the Article:
, Microsoft chief executive Steve Ballmer said yesterday.
And the spin:
None of this would be worth discussing if it came from a nobody, but it came from a chief executive. Now that's somebody. Not only a chief executive, but one that runs one of the largest companies in the world. Maybe we all better think this one over because a guy like this would not just bring this up over nothing would he?
The very title conveys a certain level of creedence to this whole thing, but for a minor point. The company he runs is in the middle of the largest anti-trust litigation known. Doesn't this put just a little different light on things?
From the article:
Mr Ballmer said the decision affected Xbox's business model, which relies on subsidising the hardware console in return for a royalty on every game sold.
Now the spin:
This actually is a true statement with regard to the business model. They need to sell games, or take a loss on each console. Saying the legal decision affected that business model though is clearly false. Someone who buys an xbox who also imports a game paid for both. How does this break the model? Games are sold as are consoles. Clearly this is worded to imply that the alleged selling of chips will affect Microsofts ability to make money.
Now the truth here is, mod chips can do this, if they allow users to run other things, but in this case, the users are running the things they are supposed to be able to run anyway; namely, import games. So, Microsoft does not like mod chips because there is a possibility that they could be used in ways that could harm their business model, but they can't say that so they imply it.
From the article:
Microsoft has slashed the retail price of an Xbox from $649 to $399, which resulted in increased hardware sales and more game software sold.
And the spin:
This is a fact. They have lowered their price to compete with SONY. According to them it is working, and it likely is, but this is something they choose to do. Having it mentioned here just adds to the negative connotation alrealy implied with the 'alleged' crime discussed earlier. Another point worth mention here is that SONY has been dealing with this the entire time and seems to make lots of money. Why can't Microsoft?
They have no real basis for a statement against another nations legal system just because they have to keep their price low in order to boost sales of their product. This is a pretty arrogant stand to take --if you look though the spin.
From the article:
But Sony, which saw sales of PlayStation 2 titles decline 19 per cent in the same period, still dominates, selling 28 per cent of all titles, against Xbox's 7 per cent.
And the spin:
This paints the picture of the perfect underdog. Everyone wants an xbox don't they? If these criminals are allowed to sell mod chips then some people just might not get one. They might have to settle for a SONY instead. You can carry that little piece farther if you want, it's easy.
From the article:
"Given the way the economic model works
And spin:
Note the use of the word 'the'. This is clever because it implies that there is only one economic model. What they should say here is, "Given the way our economic model works". Again subtle word use to shift blame from them to another entity; namely, the Australian legal system.
From the article:
, and that is a subsidy followed, essentially, by fees for every piece of software sold, our licence framework has to do that
And spin:
This is a complex way of saying we need some money for every game sold. Fair enough, but the alleged crime mentioned above does nothing to hinder that, so why bother with this whole affair in the first place. Is there something we are not seeing? If so, why hide it. Everyone would be a lot better off knowing what is is.
From the article:
"If there are aspects that are not allowed, it would encourage us to require a change in the legal framework. Otherwise, it wouldn't make economic sense."
And spin:
Basically they are saying here, if they cannot do what they want, then they don't want to do it at all. Sounds like the reasoning of a three year old plain and simple.
Essentially what is happening here is this.
Microsoft is saying that they want income from every xbox both from the sale of the actual box, and the games following that.
They say that a chip intended for users to play imported games hinders that in some fashion, but decline to discuss exactly what that is exactly.
So they basically throw down their gauntlet and say, either play the way we want, or we won't play at all.
What exactly is anyone supposed to realistically think about this? Should we support a change to another nations legal system because they tell us that the law there might hinder them from making the amount of money they want to make, or that the think they should be making with nothing but implications to that end?
Spin Indeed.
Blogging because I can...
> Everyone will import them from US or Japan, and play games on them, with the modchips that let them do so.
No, I think it much more likely that everyone just will buy PS2s and Game Cubes instead (well, maybe only PS2s, unless some actual games ever appear in stores for the Game Cube)
Advanced users are users too!
You've got to be kidding me. That game was published in 1985. I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny or not, but that has to be the most retarded thing I've heard this year alone.
Game prequels do not count. In most of the cases the "remake" if you will, is continents apart from it's predacessor. We're not discussing Resident Evil and it's sequels. We're talking about games from the dinosaur era being remade, and they are available on certain console. In the same fashion one might nitpick on PS2 titles and say there is no exclusivity since some game developer wrote it on C64 back in Ice Age. So I'll go ahead and ignore the NES references, just because.
I'll answer your question with a question.
Ford produced the Mustang in 1965. What makes the 2003 model any better?
Sorry, some people don't have $200-300 dollars laying around to spend on a decent video card to play UT2003. Yes, it will play online via the Xbox Live service, according to M. Rein.
Hah. Thanks for the laugh. Unless you're 12y/o and like to play PG13 games, then GameCube is for you. Xbox is for the mature crowd who like to blow shit up after a long day at work. As for the Metroid Prime, I'll comment on it when it's out.
Really? I think that the VAST majority of Australian posters here have made the point that parallel importation is LEGAL in Oz and that region-locking is ILLEGAL. If I have an early DVD player or an XBox or PS/2 that is region-locked, I have to chip it before I can play the games/DVDs I have legally imported from outside Australia. This is hardly piracy.
I am not Australian and I do not own a game console or a stand-alone DVD player. I DO own a combo CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive in my PC. I DO have libdvdcss installed so I can (sometimes unsuccessfully) try to play legally-purchased, original DVDs on my PC because I am Microsoft-free by choice. If a DVD refuses to play on my system, I return it to the store as a defective product, because they NEVER show "system requirements" on the outside of the packaging, thereby breaching, at minimum, the implied warranty of merchantability under the Uniform Commercial Code.
NO vendor is entitled to tell me that I MUST use Windows or any other particular software product AFTER the purchase. In fact, they have a duty to inform me, the purchaser, of any special requirements BEFORE the purchase so I can make an informed decision whether I want to make the purchase or not.
For Rosen, Valenti or YOU to accuse me of piracy in writing is libel and I demand a retraction.
utter rubbish
Everyone who makes this argument right now is a flaming idiot. Unless you plan on buying every single game for a particular console, and judge each console totally on quantity, then there is no longer any cause to complain - ALL THREE CONSOLES HAVE GOOD GAMES ON THEM...THEY EVEN HAVE MORE THAN A FEW.
Here are some highlights from my current collection.
PS2: Final Fantasy X, GTA3, Gran Turismo 3 and several more that *I* like but may not be big-time favorites.
Gamecube: Rogue Leader, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Beach Spikers, Godzilla Destroy All Monsters Melee, Super Smash Bros. Melee and more.
XBox: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dead to Rights, Morrowind (yes, it's PC too, so the hell what?), Jet Set Radio Future, Sega Soccer Slam, Project Gotham Racing and more -- not to mention that cross-platform games are generally nicer on the X than the others (in addition to being generally nicer on the GC than the PS2).
In short, all of you schmucks who keep yakking about how there are no good games for console need to help yourselves to a hot cup of shut the fuck up. While YOUR favorite game (GTA3 fans, Mario fans, Halo fans) might not be on a particular console that doesn't mean that there isn't anything else on it.
Um, this being a some what technical site, you'd think there'd be more HOWs being asked. How does one install a chip that emulates the ps2 system (we're not talking 1 chip, but a whole system) on x86 hardware? I think that feat of engineering itself would deserve it's own story....
but I mean come on, how is that possible??? If someone could explain it, I'd be happy to listen.
The reason for MS's letter was that Sony sued a mod chip seller and lost. No, Sony's PS division is not having financial difficulties (although Sony as a whole is), but that doesn't mean they're not losing money with every pirated game played on a modded system.
And since NO ONE has the numbers to prove there are more honest modders playing imports than there are pirates stealing games or vice versa, who's to say that Sony isn't losing money with each mod chip sold?
So MS isn't the only company with a bug up it's ass. Heh heh... but like most MS bugs, it's probably much bigger than anyone else's bugs.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
What the hell? Which planet do you come from?
Walk into any mobile phone outlet and see for yourself how they're giving away selected phones for FREE with a yearly contract. That's not a fucked up business model. It's the norm.
Check your facts next time.
(I paraphrase slightly) "change the law or we'll .."
This is NOT a slight paraphrase to say the least. And of course, all the posts here are riding off of this very emotionally charged phrase. It's no secret that the XBOX is doing horribly down under, and MS is just saying that it may not make economic sense to sell their product their due to the current laws regarding their product. Of course, making MS sound like the Big Bully Yet Again makes for a lot more banner hits.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Did you read the link I posted? All European GameCube games support PAL; PAL/M is optional. Past consoles only used PAL.
Bear in mind console games are often linked to the refresh/frame rate - although this seems to be changing, with various games having choppy/unpredictable frame rates in recent years. Witness the PC port of Wipeout - on a fast PC it was unplayable, because it was frame rate limited - sadly with a decent gfx card it was limited to about 150-200fps, so you hit the the bend before you saw it.
:-)
Similarly, if you have to run at a slower frame rate, and render more pixels (as with NTSC->PAL) you are going to hit problems if the game was coded to rely on certain characteristics of the frame rate.
I believe the total number of pixels you have to render per second with PAL vs NTSC is the same (or near enough, according to my calculator) - but of course, it doesn't always work out so neatly depending on the content of the scene you're rendering, how fast your hardware can clear the frame buffer, rendering set up times, etc. which is why some games are just letter-boxed - render the same frames, just do it slightly slower for PAL.
Also, I believe the PS2 gets quite upset if you don't render a frame at the refresh rate of the TV - you get nasty visual artifacts, which I think are to do with the interlacing.
As I understand it - I'm not an expert on console hardware, as someone is no doubt about to point out
Tim
Heck, I even buy all of the games I play on the PC. Hard to believe, but there it is
Ray
I'm not going to pick through your entire list but the game at the top of your list Battlefield: 1942 has already been released on the PC as many gamers can attest.
Meanwhile the affected country will effectively escape from the Microsoft stranglehold and never again become trapped in it once everyone has migrated to free OSs.
. . . and the "original" was made up out of whole cloth by Goldman . . .
;-)
.
It's a terrible thing to learn, I know, but the truth will set you free! In this case, free to appreciate Goldman's brilliance in coming up with the whole thing
Hit google and look for something like "the princess bride real story bald-faced lie" and enjoy . .
himi
My very own DeCSS mirror.
If it's anything like the UK market no-one would notice. My local store (one of a big chain) is now selling X-Boxen for £129 - about $200. That's down from £300 at launch. Furthermore it gives every indication that it's desperate to get rid of them. I even overheard two staff a few weeks ago desparing if they were ever going to shift *any* stock.
The shelf space allocated to X-Boxen games has been shrinking progressively in favour of the Gamecube and PS2. Even the demo consol in the shop is deserted - whenever I go in there's a big crowd around the PS2 and particularly Gamecube ones, but no-one ever seems to touch the X-Box.
Your milage may vary, but as far as the UK goes I'd say the X-Box is pretty much dead.
Hi all. I'm an Australian. I know many people here who have purchased a Microsoft X-Box. Most of them did so as a result of the not-so-recent price drop.
I would just like to point out that Microsoft will not remove the X-Box (and games) from the Australian market. This is nothing but the usual FUD that many have come to expect (actually, it's synonymous with) from Ballmer, Gates, and Co.
The reason is simple. To do so would be a massive public relations nightmare for Microsoft in Australia. Sure, we are but a country of 20 million people. A drop in the proverbial population bucket, if you will. But the point still stands.
If Microsoft pulls the X-Box out of Australia, they can kiss-ass-goodbye to ever competing (on an even par) with the likes of Sony in the Australian market, ever again. There would also be a carry-on effect for their other products.
This is nothing but fear-mongering on the part of Microsoft.
It would be interesting to see buyer reactions to Ballmers comments, especially in the leadup to the Christmas buying period, if the mainstream press in Australia was to make his comments public knowledge to all.
If you allow yourself to be bullied, you'll just be handing over your dinner money for the rest of time.
If Microsoft cared so much wouldnt a system like we have in the UK with Gas Meters work better? Or with animals we look after from the RSPCA. I mean, if rather than selling them to us, we rented them from Microsoft they could easily enforce - and proescute? (i think) a no - mod chip law, and id guess that those people who would not "purchase" an Xbox marketed liek this would in 80% of the cases be the very people Microsoft are trying to keep out!
This is cutting off their nose to spite their face. "Our business will be damaged by mod chips therefore we're going to destroy our business first.", has to be the most hollow threat ever.
Microsoft is very concerned about a man having been acquitted after allegedly selling modified chips that allow an Xbox to play Sony PS2 games. So concerned in fact, that they are saying: change the law, or they will have to reconsider selling the Xbox in Australia. Not selling the Xbox is well within their rights, but putting it in a (I paraphrase slightly) "change the law or we'll .." context seems assuming a bit too much
OK, when are we going to actually check the articles that come into slashdot and their validity? This very distressing. The Xbox CANNOT play PS2 games. Heck, if you could your top-end PC to play PS2 games well, I'd be damn impressed.
There is also virtually nothing in the article indicating a Microsoft tone of "change your law or we'll take our marbles and play elsewhere." Can we please at least check these things before they make it to the front page?
Slashdot is a terrific site, and there are some good people here with good opinions. However, if all the front page content is going to suffer, I fear that the entire slashdot community may suffer as well.
Where the wind blows, the tumbleweed goes.
http://www.thelockeinstitute.org/books/singapor
http://teacherweb.ftl.pinecrest.edu/c
I think it fits your definition better, however...
The USA was a "leader" in this: by passing the DMCA in 1998, they were easily the first Western nation to ratify this crap into what is now international law.
Unfortunately, the UK is the world leader in fucking up IP laws.
I've got DVDs with region code 1 (US/Canada), 2 (Europe) and 3 (SE Asia), and I'll be damned if I let them decide that I can only buy DVDs in Europe.
Now with the Euro-DMCA (in effect from december, already decided from what I can tell) they can say it's illegal to make DVD players that ignore the zoning and shit, but if they really want to make it so, I'll join the pirates (arr) too, not because of the money, but because they're zone free should I decide to go live somewhere else.
I refuse to buy multiple players, or multiple versions of the same movie, just so I can see what I already own. Zone free DVD players and DVD bios flashing give me that, take that away from me and you will lose my income. I have no problem downloading a DivX, but I find it just as convienient to just buy the DVD, with more extras and all. Change that, and it'll be your own undoing.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Ok, consider a company that makes some kind of periferal device for the ms xbox, say a webcam or something. It is obviously not illegal to make such a device. Of course you 'll say a mod chip does something illegal, but a webcam doesn't. But it is not allways clear whether a device is legal or illegal. How about something like the action replay from the amiga days? would an action replay for the xbox be illegal? What if someone makes an xbox compatible machine? Will they be able to stop it? You can see where I am getting at. Does microsoft have the authority (or the power if you prefer) to control all the hardware that third party manufacturers produce? Can they dictate what kinds of plugins are allowed? IMHO they can't and will never be able to. That's what apple tried to do once and they lost the game to the pc. That's what IBM didn't try do and today there are pc's everywhere. But IBM wasn't able to benefit from that fact. Face it, the hardware can't be controlled that easily. Today IBM and Sun are trying to move from the hardware market to the software market. Do you think they are stupid? They made the mistake once, they know they can't rely solely on hardware sales. On the contrary where does MS go? Now they try to make their own hardware platform as if software weren't enough to keep them going. I say good luck to them, but it won't be that easy this time.
I know, I know, we should mod before posting.
However, I just had to reiterate what another poster here has said: What harm does the withdrawl of the X-Box do Austrailia in a market saturated with alternatives?
For one, Sony is happily selling PS2s at a brisk clip in Australia here and in the rest of the world. Nintendo also has a viable entrance into the market. And the industry has moved from a platform dependent marketplace to one which all major game developers are hedging their bets and releasing across all platforms. Chances are if your desired title isn't available on the XBOX (Beta), it can be had with slightly degraded images on the PS2 (VHS).
We have a company who is used to being the essential-for-democracy platform entering into a market where it is merely an entertainment player, then trying to throw its weight around. Amusingly, Microsoft (et al) have opened themselves up for this sort of thing by denying the ability to play imported games, a generally sanctioned activity that qualifies as a significant non-infringing use.
Nintendo's Game Boy (and the subsequent Game Boy Advance), the best selling system of all time by a wide margin, has no territorial lockout whatsoever. I understand that the ability to run unsigned code is both a viable way to enjoy a system and a dangerous proposition for platform developers (who essentially sell keys), but Sony realized that there was demand for such a system and managed to sell out of Yaroozes (programmable PS2's) at tremendous markups and without negative impact on their overall sales. These are the two most persuasive arguments in favor of the continued legality of mod chips. The steps that these companies could take to satisfy these legal desires would go a long way to curbing their losses to piracy.
So until these companies shape up and put out products that satisfy the market, thereby solving Sony and Microsoft's problem of the market satisfying itself, I say... Who cares? Unlike certain other markets we could name, in this one there are alternatives.
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
NTSC, PAL and SECAM don't have resolutions at all.
NTSC, PAL, and SECAM specify a number of scanlines for a signal, the timing used for each scanline, the bandwidth of the main carrier, and the bandwidth of a color subcarrier. The Nyquist theorem guarantees a sample frequency given bandwidth or vice versa, and multiplying that by the length of a scanline gives a pixel count per line. Thus, you have a HxV pixel count, which is what computer users typically call "resolution".
Will I retire or break 10K?
Interesting (and I would have modded you that way if I didn't want to reply), but I think their "X" is supposed to make you think "eXtreme" - anybody who buys this box is saying that those wimpy "play"stations aren't eXtreme enough for me! I am big and strong and am well-endowed! I need a big and powerful video game system - an eXtreme one, if you will!
But it's fun to pervert the intended meaning of Microsoft products (lookOut!), so x works well as an unknown variable.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
When you set up a loss leader marketing plan, some of your costumers are going to take the deal and leave the rest. Grocery stores do this all the time. Albertsons doesn't take you to court when you buy 2 12-packs of coke for $4.00, but refuse to buy the expensive potato chips on the other side of the aisle.
Why does M$ consider it the consumers obligation to make their gamble pan out?
If only the gaming industry had more clout in the gov't (maybe in the form of one of their former execs being the president, vp, or national security advisor) we could be teaching those freedom-hating aussies a thing or two about our values.
Let's roll!
Hey,
I understand your point and all, but really, isnt paraprasing
"Given the way the economic model works, and that is a subsidy followed, essentially, by fees for every piece of software sold, our licence framework has to do that," Mr Ballmer said. "If there are aspects that are not allowed, it would encourage us to require a change in the legal framework. Otherwise, it wouldn't make economic sense."
into....
"change the law, or they will have to reconsider selling the Xbox in Australia. "
stretching it a bit?
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
You bought the game used
Actually, I didn't. I bought it at a store that sells discontinued merchandise, customer returns, and so forth. The box was sealed (although of course I found out much later that it was *re*sealed), and all discs, documentation, even the registration card were included. When I registered it on Blizzard's website, the key didn't come up as previously used.
In any case, I stand by my logic. It's the license, not the physical media that matters. I purchased the game legitimately, therefore I own the license, and therefore I have the right to a backup copy of my software. Since part of the physical media (it's a three-disc set, only one was keyed) my software came on was damaged, I used a bit-for-bit identical original to make mine.
I would say that your example is flawed. If you sold a friend an old copy of Photoshop that was on a damaged disc, they would have the right to do exactly what I did - copy the disc for that version from someone else to obtain a working copy. If I were following the example you give, I would be claiming the right to pirate Diablo III, IV, etc., based on my experience, which I am certainly not.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
And having a look at your posts, I would suggest that it would take a troll to know a troll.
If you don't like the copy protection that the X-box uses, don't buy one. You're not obliged to have one.
Well, yes, ideally. But they haven't stopped selling the fundamentally broken MS Office suite, and have simply added things to the list of features that don't quite work properly.
At least Mozilla had the decency to have a feature freeze to let *some* of the broken bits catch up, and of course they don't expect you to pay for a new one every year.
at least half of those GC games aren't out in Australia yet.....I'm pretty sure that there's plenty of good games in the US...but over here, it's looking pretty grim at the moment.....
Personally I'm waiting for Animal Crossing and Eternal Darkness before the GC moves closer to the top of my shopping list....
Advanced users are users too!
They are selling the box below cost. They are trying to win market share. They are trying to stop the mods from doing to them what software and exacto knife mods did to Digital Convergence with the Cue Cat bar code scanners. They want their hareware to only run the content sold by them and use online services provided by them for a return on investment. Mods kill the payback of selling games and online services.
The truth shall set you free!