Slashdot Mirror
Phoenix 0.4 Released
Clark Kent writes "Mozilla's little brother browser,
Phoenix, has reached
version 0.4. New enhancements include themes support, type ahead find, and
number of improvements to pop-up blocking, toolbar customization, and tabbed
browsing, as well as the usual bug fixes.
Get it here."
...Google toolbar! I'm helpless without it.
Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned! Ask not for whom the bone bones; it bones for thee. -Bender
Been using pheonix for the past couple of releases. It kicks. Might replace opera soon ;)
Brent J
Has anyone noticed a real speed improvement over Mozilla (when only the browser is compiled in)?
{{.sig}}
phonix is the sweetest browser i've ever used kicks all the others even galeon away.
dybia felly dwi a hampster (i think therefore i am a hampster)
I think that by the time that phoenix reaches 1.0 it will be bigger than mozilla.
What a fast release cycle this has, certainly compared to Mozilla! I saw the headline and thought, "Woah that was quick".
Perhaps they should rename it "fast-release-cycle-bird".
Nah, Phoenix is a better name. Just.
Why should I switch from IE?
(Because it is Microsoft is not a valid answer)
What makes Phoenix so cool that I should bother with it?
Compare things like features, security, and resource usage.
Mozilla is plenty fast on my systems, but phoenix absolutely SMOKES any browser I have ever seen, by a very, very long shot. Seriously, wow. They're doing something right.
Joseph?
I can't really tell you about Phoenix's features, etc as I'm about to start my download after I finish typing this comment, but I've been running Mozilla as my primary browser for a couple months now and it's quite nifty.
What I can tellyou is that no matter what anyone tells you about a browser, you won't be able to really appreciate what makes it great without trying it yourself.
Russ
Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized anymore.
I don't think themes should be included in a lean & mean browser. If they are including themes I wonder what features they leave out to make the browser faster/smaller.
Anyone made .debs yet? sources.list lines, please?
The site is not very user-friendly. Is there a tarball with the source of the release anywhere?
I could not find it. And getting the code of the release from cvs is not what I consider a release.
The post suggests that theme support is new to 0.4. That's probably my fault for a not-as-clear-as-it-could-have-been release note. Phoenix uses XUL. Part of XUL is that the browser GUI is styled using images and CSS. That makes any XUL-based product "skinable". This is the first release of Phoenix where there were a number of completed themes available but it is not the first release with support for themes. Theme support is a byproduct of the decision to build the UI with images and CSS (XUL). For more information and discussion of Phoenix themes and other Phoenix issues check out the MozillaZine Phoenix forums.
--Asa
Its nice to see some people taking advantage of the mozilla source and putting in the effort to make the browser that mozilla should have been in the first place.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
1.Your privacy can be assured. Tommorows EULA may want you to do a lot of things which you may not like. if you dont like privacy, then ignore this point. ;-). you will be making so many people on slashdot happy. They have given you +interesting karma. C'mon pay some back. Use phoenix. Better still use beta find bugs, report them. By helping in this effort you will be helping the common user. You will be helping freedom.
2.Free. Well since you bought win, it dosent apply maybe
3.Popup Blocking. If you say it dosent annoy you to have popups i think you are lying. I know you will say that third party programs are available, but many of those programs have spyware.
4. Security -> This was your question right? Well mozilla also may have some security issues, but going by record IE security issues have been far more alarming.
5. Conscience-> We all have one. I think you also do
6. Cool ness -> you gf comes and sees the dragon, my o my after boring netscape and IE logos you will show people u use the cool new browser.
7. Ego kick -> ever tried compiling a tough to compile software and see it run. I did kde 3.0beta, that to on solaris with most libraries missing. was real pain... but when it worked the ego kick was great. IE cant even come close to it.
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
the speed over 0.3 is much improved. i know they market as a lightweight browser and this is the first time i have seen it live up to this claim. cant wait for 1.0
IE is definately gonna have a run for its money.
I still haven't found this feature, does it have it? That's whats holding me back from using it as my main browser.
-=LaptopZZ=-
The Realistic Internet Simulator (Macromedia Flash required)
Althought I've been reading about Phoenix since its first release, I had never used it until now. And I must say that I'm very surprised and pleased with it. It has the same (excellent) rendering engine as Mozilla, and is so standards-compliant. All of my sites looks and works great, and I do use a lot of CSS/JavaScript stuff. But the best of all, is its lightweight. Phoenix loads a lot faster than its big brother Mozilla, and same goes for the sites rendering. It supports all the features I use in Mozilla (tabbed browsing, make animated images not loop, JavaScript Console, etc.) plus some unique ones (toolbar customization, sidebar download manager). Oh and it uses your GTK+ widget native look/theme, so you get a tighter integration with the whole environment. A piece of software worth trying if you haven't done so yet, it still need some work (like on the stability side), and it seems not to have AA fonts support by now (I might be wrong, first time I run it and I haven't used for more than 10 minutes, heh) but it's sure a walk on the right path.
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
googlebar
I tried it on Phoenix 0.2 and it worked. Not sure if it will on the newer versions. I heard there are problems with installing it on certain platforms as well.
I used Phoenix until 0.3 when the home button on mine started taking me to mozilla.org instead of the homepage I set in the preferences. Did that bug get fixed yet?
-- Eric
People using Gentoo should check this link, it works great on my computer after I created a link to the 'missing' libc6-library.
As for memory footprint and speed: Yes, Phoenix *definitely* is a lot better, even compared to optimized builds (i.e. homecompiled with optimalisations, as Gentoo does)
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
find the themes here:
http://themes.mozdev.org/phoenix
~.~
I'm a peripheral visionary.
People actually like that thing? Maybe I just ot off to a bad start with it way back when it used to jump up in my face and was impossible to disable. I still cringe a little bit inside when I think about it.
the thing is actually useful? what do you do with it?
After about 5 years of playing around with Linux and using it more and more, I finally kicked the Windows habit 6 months ago.
Now, when ever I happen to watch a friend browsing with IE I have to wonder how the hell they can put up with all those danged pop-ups ads!
Banners are one thing, sort of like billboards, but with pop-ups is as if some smart-assed sales person jumped right in your face screaming "buy, buy, buy!"
Yeah, it's true you can get pop-up blockers, but you shouldn't have to. The browsers job is to take you the content that you want to see, not to the content that the browser's maker wants you to see.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Thunduur. Sabrewulf!
Fight (indecipherable)
Ready.
Feeenix! FEeeeeeeenix!!
Eek, awrawrooo. Eek, awrawrooo
Supur Combo!
Winnur!
Thunduur. Rrrriptor.
Fight (indecipherable)
Worst Troll EVER. Try not to be so obvious next time ;)
Just like to point out one thing about mozillish browsers. They pause to download and format, then paint the screen all at once. The painting goes by in a flash! Mozilla on my system is about as fast as konqueror, but konq will set things up on the screen on the fly instead of pausing and painting. I think the way Mozilla does it gives an illusion of speed with that blinding fast paint.
Now, this pheonix does everything fast. I'm almost tempted to see how it'll run on an old 486 laptop I've squirreled away.
That with Mozilla browsers, everything gets all screwed up when running through proxies? I've got junkbuster running on a seperate machine.
A small comparison on my computer, which is an AMD Duron 750 with plenty (768 MB) of SDRAM-133. I'm running Gentoo 1.4 (GCC 3.2), so the Mozilla build is optimized. I'm running Phoenix 0.4 and Mozilla 1.1.
Startup, when both programs have been started before (e.g. large parts are probably cached in memory). Used my digital clock for this so, it's not that accurate, but a good indication:
Mozilla: 5-6 seconds
Phoenix: 1-2 seconds
Memory usage after startup, using google.com as homepage (measured using top):
Mozilla: Physical memory in use=24 MB (of which 15 MB is shared)
Phoenix: Physical memory in use=19MB (of which 12.5 MB is shared)
After browsing some sites which I will mention here so people can reproduce this if they want:
nu.nl, slashdot.org, tweakers.net (which is heavy on javascript), kde.org, tomshardware.com, cnn.com
FYI I don't have Java or Flash plugins installed, so Flash banners do not have influence on the Mozilla memory footprint.
memory usage is:
Mozilla: RSS=33 MB
Phoenix: RSS=25 MB
Not to mention that Phoenix feels a lot faster and more responsive.
So yeah, even an optimized Mozilla can't beat Phoenix by far. Go try it sometime if your biggest gripe about Mozilla is that it's a) slow and b) uses too much memory.
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
uh maybe you should just burn in hell, cause you know your going nowhere else - bastard funny thing is, i wonder if this guy acually means this, it would be funny if he was really serious
link
nirvanis
1. Mozilla interface feels "heavy" and slow. The buttons just feel "heavy" to me. IE6 feels light and it looks like a Windows program. Plus, it loads more quickly.
2. Google toolbar. Yeah, I've used the mozdev one... and it's just not as impressive. I cannot do the following with the Mozdev bar:
3.Edit button. Again, a feature that rocks. I'm not sure how many people use this, but as a web developer, I do on pretty much a daily basis. Example: I need to pull a table from a website I'm working on. One click and the whole HTML source is loaded up in Dreamweaver MX and I'm working on editing the HTML. No FTP'ing the file down and then finding it on my hard drive. I just pull it straight from IE.
4.View Partial Source. Once again, mostly a web developer tool, but an invaluable one at that. I highlight any part of the page, click "View Partial Source", and I'm staring at the source code that created that part of the page. This is part of the IE5 Web Developer Tools add-on, and it works fine with IE6. I also use Images List to see all the images and their sizes in a certain page. (Not sure if Mozilla has that.)
As far as popup blocking goes, I use AdSubtract. Once again, I cannot recommend this highly enough. In addition to blocking popups, it blocks ALL advertisements. Plus, you can tell it to turn on/off Javascript, cookies, referrers, and pretty much anything else on a per-site basis. Just add the URL to the list and check which things you want to block, and you're set. It's configurable via your systray. This program is awesome.
Here's my page that demonstrates exactly what AdSubtract does. It's so much more powerful than what Mozilla does that I'm amazed more people don't talk about it.
I suppose I should add the usual disclaimer that I don't work for any of the above companies, etc. I'm just a PHP/web developer. I thought I should add my reasons for not using Mozilla, though, just so you can have both sides of the story. I'd also hope that any Mozilla developers reading this (Asa?) will take this story into account when it comes time to figure out what features should go into the next version of Mozilla. The features I use in IE may be some of the more obscure ones, but until I see functional equivalents in Mozilla, I won't be switching.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
Whats so special about a goddamn Phoenix release that makes it a topic on Slashdot? I mean fat wank....Phoenix 0.4 is released - like we need another browser like we need another slashdot... Maybe I should post 'MyPetProject 0.5 released' and call it news worthy. Even better lets turn Slashdot into a project release mailing list! Then everyone will know when everyone else's pet project is out...On that note here's my pet project that I get wet dreams about: http://subversion.tigris.org
Wow! i can't believe version 0.4 is out! let me know when .5,.6,.7,.8 and .9 come out to!
Thanks for pointing this out. I currently have IE 5.5sp2 installed and can't find this per site privacy dialog. Is the screenshot from a newer version?
In any event, it would be unfair to pit the newest Phoenix against an older IE version, so I concede that point. Also, I would like to add that I just installed Phoenix 0.4 and it does have cookie white/blacklists now. I'm satisfied.
It looks quite nice, but I still have a Java
./phoenix
4 )
problem with it, when trying to view a page that
contains java, it crashes:
[klink@dandelion]:/usr/local/src/phoenix$
INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End: Could not read ack from browser
System error?:: Die Ressource ist zur Zeit nicht verfügbar
(see http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17325
Maybe someone here got an idea!?
The bit about clciking on every add to generate revenue can't be serious - I thought it was a funny post.
You UNIX Gurus out there! HOW TO TELL IF SOMEONE HAS EXECUTED A BINARY FILE? How to monitor that and later point out that "user x" used "binary x" on "date x"??? Is there any way??? Million thanks and sorry for the wrong forum but THIS IS URGENT!
Does it handle proxy server now?
Sounds really great! After reading all of your responses, I'm eagerly awaiting an OS X version. Ok, please an OS X version...please. Oh shit, that's right...someone said Apple's going to die again. (sigh)
There are two kinds of people in the world: those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
you know instead of hiding what you are really saying in your message just be clear about it....
Translation of what you said - " I'm, a tard... a Tard from microsoft... Tard! I am a reeee-tard! I'm a reeetard that Billy hired.... I love billy... but I'm a tard..... a stupid tard not a regular one.... Please let me write crap and sell it for big $$$... cuz I'm a tard......"
everyone knows this, and you are just left looking as stupid as possible...
If you want privacy, it's worth upgrading for that alone (plus all the exploit fixes). Then Tools:Internet Options:Privacy and you're free to play.
You fucking moron! I wish people like you had pricetag hanging out of your ass and it was fully legal to squeeze the trigger and claim the amount at the nearest OSI office.
May the likes of you stay away from the evolution of the human race.
Girls are strange. They don't come with a man page.
-- Michael Mattsson
That I was testing some of our sites with a fellow employee, when after a while he seemed puzzled as to why one of the buttons didn't seem to click (Mozilla doesn't seem to like myform.button.value, you have to put document.myform.button.value). He seemed visibly surprised when I told him I wasn't using Explorer. Then I showed him reading down a web page, right clicking on links where they loaded in tabs in the background... then going and reading each of the pages afterwards. Plus right clicking on tabs to instantly close them. He was very impressed.
Even though Phoenix is faster and more stable than Explorer, I found the only real way to switch was to delete all the Explorer icons from the desktop and the taskbar. Otherwise some old habits are too hard to break!
Phoenix combined with Privoxy (plus the occasional run of AdAware)... the currently unbeatable combination on WinXP.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Please delete the malevolently fabricated pack of lies above about our darling CmdrTaco.
CmdrTaco has never engaged in heterosexual copulation since those unfortunate incidents with his mother in his pre-teen years. After he discovered the wonders of Open Sores software and started the popular web log "Slashdot", he has been an outspoken homosexual, and his important role as a spokesman for the homosexual and other sexual deviants is reinforced every time he receives Free-As-In-Assreaming hardware from the "different" company Apple.
The release notes says that since Phoenix is still not mature, you should always delete your old installs of Phoenix, including profile, before installing a new release. I guess you should do that -- sorry for any confusion. :-P
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Runs plenty good for me...
Will never let you down.
:(). I can also view page freshness, this one is January 1, 1970. I guess /.'s servers don't send a date.
Aside from the myriad of features(pop-up blocking, and the likes) that Galeon had first, it uses Mozilla for rendering and has the "bookmarklets" collection installed.
Two clicks, and I can translate any page to English(google, not babelfish
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
So when Phoenix 1.0 is finally released, we will be able to fight communism in covert operations, counter the plans of the evil Murdoch, get to save our clumsy friends and build bombs with a refrigerator or a flamethrower with a vibrator ?
Cool ! Phoenix Foundation really rules.
Side joke :
Q:how many 't's are there in "MacGuyver" ?
A: 76 : "ta ta ta ta ta ta ta
tatata
tatata
tatatata ta ta ta
tatatata tatata tatata tatata tatata tata..."
For some moronic reason, they're not porting Phoenix because they think that Chimera is supposed to be the one and only "lite" browser for OS X.
However, there were already Galeon and K-Meleon for Linux and Windows, so why are they working on and releasing Phoenix at all?
Anyway, some guy did a quick and dirty 'port' of Phoenix to OS X - he changed two line of code, then built it. Almost too easy; maintaining an OS X port would be trivial.
I really do wonder why the Phoenix project leaders have been so insistent on shunning the Mac...
It is quicker than Mozilla by far, and the rendering looks to be equally good as you would hope. I haven't used it for long, so I don't know about stability, but it can't be that much worse than Mozilla 1.1 which I have been using exclusively for the past month or so.
Now how do I enable anti-aliased text? And how do I import my Mozilla bookmarks...?
I will be keeping my eye on this one for sure.
... is the unbeatable combination for dealing with WinXP :P
First off, tabs, greatest thing on earth.
They are cool. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that IE7 has them.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
and I am using the Win32 version right now. I cannot believe how good this is and how (compared to this) relatively crappy Mozilla is. I can only say to others to try it - the excellent wealth of non-superfluous features and browsing enhancements are too numerous to list here. As of tonight around 4:41 AM IE is effectively done on my WinXP desktop. Long live Phoenix!
I don't know what Phoenix has built in, but a Google Toolbar clone for Mozilla is available here.
From the web page: The Googlebar project was initially created to address the widespread desire in the mozilla community for the Google toolbar to support Netscape 7/Mozilla [...]. Our current release emulates all of the basic search functionality of the toolbar
Judging from the screenshots they look quite similar.
Installed the Bubblemon yet?
The "Page info" button is *really* handy as you can get to the google cache from there... even while you realize that the page isn't gonna load because it is slashdotted.
;-)).
The "Move up one level" is the button that browsers has lacked for years. It is amazing that this isn't in all of them.
This display of the search words, clickable so you can searh the document for the mtaches without bringing up an unfriendly search box that doesn't wrap the search. And highlighting of the words, too.
"Search this site"-button.
History (clearable, if you are worried about someone seeing your searches for pr0n
And if I understand this correctly, you can choose to help google with their data by letting them "spy" on your searches. Before anyone cries out, go try install it and see the size of those warnings, the privacy statements, and realize that it is something they ask you to do if you wish. You don't have to. I have this turned on.
Some of this is stuff that browsers should already have without plugins. If I could choose, it'd have em all.
Y'all, don't disrespect the President that way.
You took a 3 minute nap in the middle of the job didn't you, bah in my day we'd get it installed and running in 2 mintues :)
themes support, type ahead find, and number of improvements to pop-up blocking, toolbar customization, and tabbed browsing
Is this really light? I mean sure the pop-up blocking is nice... but is the rest really necessary?
I downloaded ver. 0.3... and it crashed the first time I opened it... not generally something I look for in a browser. IMHO they should fix bugs... not add new features.
Find Escorts, Strippers, Massage Parlours, Swingers
Once there's SVG support in Phoenix, I'm done w/ IE. Or, can that be managed, & I'm too slow-witted to figure it out? Haven't been able to get the Adobe plug-in to work w/ Opera, & felt a genuine pang of grief when I read that "For various reasons, official Mozilla builds will not include SVG support for the near future." I track changes, etc., in the machines where I work in a map I wrote of the room in SVG. Gosh, it's useful, & my boss thinks it's pretty.
I have a 200mhz laptop w/ 96 M ram, and a 1.4 ghz desktop w/ 256M ram.
On the laptop,
Mozilla: Painfully slow
Phoenix: Usable
On the desktop:
Mozilla: The best browser I have ever used
Phoenix: Not sufficiently faster to make up for the fact that I can't search google straight out of the address bar.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
THANKS A MILLION!
Did someone here say that BLUI (XUL) is a fast environment?
Please.
Three of the worlds top BLUI hackers to make a simple browser-only UI?
Please.
Scores of great reusable widgets?
Please.
Dozens of great BLUI based projects?
Please.
XUL is an extremely easy and fast environment in which to build applications?
Applications? You've got to be kidding me. You mean like a simple broken text editor? See "The Disclaimer" from BLUI Planet at:
http://www.xulplanet.com/tutorials/xulapp/xulno
By the way, the War on Mozilla Blubber T-Shirts are now available. Apologies for not getting the coffee mugs and mouse pads completed this week.
http://www.geocities.com/moz_blubber/
--
Jenny Craig - #1 Success Rate in Blubber Busting
Just say NO to Mozilla/Netscape BLUI - Blubber Layered User Interface
Jenny Craigs War on Blubber:
http://www.geocities.com/moz_blubber/
http://www.geocities.com/moz_blubber/si
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
... Chimera. They decided not to compete against the mozilla-project dedicated as the light-weight-Apple-browser they allready had.
I am the Barber of Seville.
Did any other mozilla users notice tabs behave consistently in Phoenix? You can not only middle-click on links to open them in a new tab, but also on bookmarks!
Now I'd just like the same behavior on form buttons...
"And like that
Just for reference, the computer I'm using is a Thinkpad P2-233, 288mb RAM, 512mb pagefile and a 10gb IBM 4500RPM HDD, running Windows 2000 Pro SP2.
... but when it reacts more sluggishly still than Netscape 4.79, I think I'll wait a while before using it as my primary browser.
All times are the average of three or four tests, eyeballing the clock.
Startup Time
Netscape 4.79: 4s
Phoenix 0.4: 10s
Slashdot Homepage Load Time
Netscape 4.79: 1.5s
Phoenix 0.4: 2.5s
RAM Usage (with only Slashdot Homepage loaded)
Netscape 4.79: 8012k
Phoenix 0.4: 20,182k
Now, don't get me wrong, I think that the fact that the Phoenix people are trying to make a slim browser is great!
(BTW, this is the main reason I don't use Mozilla... it's a DOG on this machine. Even IE's kinda slow.)
I just tried Phoenix 0.4, and really like it, even over Mozilla. But because I really like Mozilla's email program, I won't switch to Phoenix until and unless Mozilla Mail is offered standalone from the browser. There's no sense in using Mozilla Mail and not using Mozilla's web browser... most of the stuff needed is in memory, so I might as well use it!
Here's hoping Mozilla is split up into separately installable components in the future. I have no desire to go back to any of the other email programs I've ever used (Outlook, Outlook Express, Eudora mostly).
Good job on Phoenix though, very cool!
"And like that
I can't double click the system menu to close ;)
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
I can't wait for the AOL commercials
This is the fourth time I've downloaded a Phoenix build, and the second time that running it does nothing visible. My machine is a Pentium II running Windows 95. (I think it's Win95B. Not sure. "VER" says "Windows 95. [Version 4.00.1111]".)
....)
PHOENI~1.ZIP 8,691,111 09-26-02 4:01p phoenix-win32.zip
PHOENI~2.ZIP 7,806,796 10-04-02 9:47a phoenix-0.2-win32.zip
PHOENI~3.ZIP 7,360,073 10-16-02 9:55a phoenix-0.3-win32.zip
PHOENI~4.ZIP 7.396,544 10-30-02 8:14a phoenix-0.4-win32.zip
The first one (a nightly build somewhere around 0.1) and the last one (0.4 milestone) do not run. They both give me the same behavior: after typing "PHOENIX", the mouse cursor changes to the arrow-plus-hourglass for a few seconds, then changes back to normal. There is no new task in the task manager after that. For all visible purposes, phoenix crashed with no errors and no core file. (Of course, there's no core file. This is Windows. Why would we be able to debug it? No strace, no gdb, no truss,
Phoenix 0.2 and 0.3 both run perfectly well on this same computer. So I've gone back to 0.3.
"PHOENIX -ProfileManager" also does nothing. Same symptoms. I've even tried deleting the 0.3 profiles using Phoenix 0.3's ProfileManager before running Phoenix 0.4. No change.
Disclaimer: I'm not Dave, just a very impressed user.
The Google toolbar was a big plus for IE, until I found Dave's quick search deskbar. It's much like the google toolbar, but it is always open on your taskbar, and you can run searches from other sites by typing in a short character sequence--i.e., do a dictionary lookup by typing "phoenix::". Do Yahoo searches with a "yh question", get Merriam-Webster definitions with a "colon:", get Bloomberg stock quotes like this "msft intc csco$", and find Switchboard phone numbers by saying "Lois Lane#". You can search real "news." search "newsgroups," check "weather*", or "comparison shop$$". There's a built in calculator when you need to know "pow(1.0625, 30)" is 6.1640785. Additionally, you don't need to remember these shortcuts--you can select them from a menu, or you can even do a search for the search shortcut for "newsgroups". I've never installed the google toolbar since I found this tool. It's windows only (though it's open source - somebody can port it to Linux in future), but so's the google toolbar.
"I may be quite wrong." - Socrates
With "The task bar", every window has a tab. Now what is the use of having these tabs in a bar in the browser window, instead of having them in "The task bar" hmmm ?
Under Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows Millennium Edition, each window uses a fair chunk of "system resources", Microsoft's name for the user.exe and gdi.exe heaps, each of which is 64 kilobytes in size, a limitation inherited from Windows 3.x, and cannot be expanded within Windows 9x no matter how much physical RAM you have. Browsers with a tabbed interface will typically use less system resources per open page than browsers with a multiple window interface. Windows NT, on the other hand, allows the heaps to grow for win32 apps and runs win3.1 apps in a separate virtual machine.
Another advantage of tabbed browsing is that a user can group tabs by task. For instance, I typically have several Slashdot pages open (pages from slashdot.org, as well as pages from web sites that I use for research for comments) in one window, with other things going on in other windows.
Will I retire or break 10K?
running mozilla 1.2beta2 built with xft2 support has spoiled me with its awesome fonts....when will we see xft2 builds of phoenix? thanks!
w|f
Use the damn built-in Windows MIME types!
Often, this is because of a misconfigured web server installation that doesn't recognize the .zip extension and send the application/zip media type. It may send the older media type application/x-zip-compressed or the generic application/octet-stream; Windows doesn't find an association for either of those types.
On the other hand, IE will sometimes ignore the media type and use the file's extension instead. This is part of what led to the <iframe> vulnerability, which Nimda and Klez exploited
Will I retire or break 10K?
Wow! Theme support! That's great! That's all a light and fast browser needs! Man, theme support!
Er... wait... who the hell needs theme support?
Asking this might reveal my boundless ignorance, but how is Phoenix much different from Galeon? Is the difference that you have to have Mozilla installed to use Galeon? I use Galeon and I like it ok. Why would I want to use Phoenix instead? Thanks for any insight.
Does anyone have or know where to get figures on how small Phoenix is getting. I wondered about this and imagine I could just search the old builds, but wouldn't this be a good thing to have up on a Phoenix page somewhere. I'm imagining a graph that might show the size of the build, the memory usage, and the speed with which the browser loads and creates new windows. Maybe along the bottom could be a note about which features have been added at each milestone. It could make a good "marketing" tool even though the browser is free. Seems like the sort of thing that reviewers would go nuts for.
Yeah, I'm as old as my UID would suggest.
I understand the motives of the Phoenix community: I'd love a leaner, faster Moz. But aren't we risking losing both Phoenix and Moz if we split into two separate projects?
... We also believe Mozilla, in general, is going in the wrong direction in terms of bloat and UI, and see no reason for our releases to carry those connotations.
First, few will contribute to or implement Moz if it looks like (and appearances count) its own developers and users are abandoning it.
Second, does mozilla.org have so many resources that it can be safely split between two projects? Either we have sufficient resources or one gets shortchanged.
Finally, isn't a lack of long term commitment to a product exactly what corporate IT fears about open source? Shouldn't we take extra steps to avoid the appearance of that problem?
Per the FAQ, and in many other places, the Phoenix developers definitely seem to intend to separate themselves from Moz:
it's not Mozilla. It's backed by mozilla.org, sure, but with each milestone you'll see it further diverge from Mozilla.
Have any Gnome2 users tried this out over galeon? Which is faster?
Berto
The Realistic Internet Simulator
Does NOT support Ctrl+W, IE's and Mozilla's shortcut to close a browser window on Windows. (Mac uses Cmd+W.) It also doesn't support double-clicking the window's system menu (the little IE icon). Therefore, it's not very realistic.
Will I retire or break 10K?
* 2002-10-29 14:14:24 Pheonix 0.4 Released (articles,mozilla) (rejected)
Guns are like umbrellas and condoms. Better to have one and not need it, than need it and not have one.
The only thing missing that I need is cookie blacklists. But IE doesn't have that either.
IE has cookie blacklisting AND cookie whitelisting. Their cookie management is quite good. Since I always keep cookies off, I use Phoenix.
The missing feature in Mozilla/Phoenix is cookie whitelists. If they had that, they would be perfect.
I went to visit /. today, but it seems DNS redirected me to VersionTracker with an announcement about a new Phoenix release ... strange ...
It's worth noting (again) that when you choose "block images from server", it still *downloads* the image, it just doesn't *show* you the image. This, I think, defeats most of the purpose of blocking images. Cast in a vote for bug 94118 in bugzilla if you think it's worth changing too.
As previous posters have observed, you have obviously never used a browser with tabs.
It is useful. It makes it easier to do more than one thing at a time. If you have a window devoted to your yahoo mail, and one devoted to the main slashdot page, you can open each story that interests you in a browser window of its own. Then the links withing that story you open up into a tab of that window. If you have decided you have had enough of that story, you can close its browswer window, and all its tabs, all at once. This is very convenient. It makes it easy to go back and forth between the article and the sidebar.
Tabbed windows makes it less painful if you still have a dialup link.
I use yahoo mail as my visible mail address. Over a dialup link it can take a while to download my mail. So I download each one into a tab of its own, leaving the list of mail messages in the original tab. Then I can go do something else, like fire up slashdot. By the time I have done that, my mail is ready for me to read. Once I have read them all I right-click on the tab that contains the list of mail messages, and I select "close all other tabs". Easy.
You might think that you could do the same thing, just as easily in IE. But you would be wrong. Sure, IE would let you open up a full window for every mail message. And if you read them in last in, first out order, and closed each one when you had read the message, you would eventually be brought back to the window with the list of articles. But, in IE you would have to wait for the last window to load. And if you visited your slashdot window(s) while you were waiting, the order of your windows would be all screwed up.
Sorry but do we have to be notified on every point release that this project makes, this makes the fourth story on Phoenix this month ! and its only a 0.point release sheesh
Phoenix 0.4 Released
On Wednesday October 30, @04:41AM with 302 comments
Phoenix 0.3 Is Out
On Wednesday October 16, @01:59AM with 432 comments
Phoenix 0.2 Web Browser:
Lean, Mean Mozilla On Monday October 07, @03:54PM with 561 comments
Slashback: Cinelerra, Dolphiname, Phoenix
On Thursday October 03, @06:59PM with 259 comments
Editors please try using the F*****g search
call me when it reaches version 1 until then...
Is this true? Can I express skepticism? A friend of mine asked me to purchase a copy of the most recent MS office suite for her under the academic discount, in the fall of 1999. I stayed with her, and used her computer, over the Christmas holidays. Youch, it was painful. Her computer took forever to boot. And, if you invoked any non-microsoft programs you could hear the HDD thrash like crazy.
I looked into this, and thought I confirmed that the MS office suite was to blame. I thought the reason it took forever to boot was because MS fired up all the office applications first. I thought the reason the HDD thrashed like crazy was that MS gave the office suite products preferential access to the windows swap space, loading them back in, even though they weren't in use, so that the OS could continue to invoke them quickly, in spite of their huge, bloated size.
So, are you really sure IE invokes more quickly?
I think I'll wait until Phoenix gets a little smaller until I consider switching to it from Mozilla. According to their site they plan on reducing it from 9mb to 6mb by replacing certain components with lighter equivalents. The reason I don't see the switch as worth it now is because I can get Mozilla to become browser only simply by running a custom install and only selecting the browser and the security manager (for ssl support). It really does help and seems to cut the load time in half. I recommend to anyone upgrading/installing Mozilla for the first time to try it. In fact most people who notice Phoenix running much faster probably installed Mozilla with the default options. For me it's about a tie right now.
Something on a blacklist is considered unacceptable, to be boycotted, or censured. A whitelist is the opposite -- something to be accepted. Since Phoenix can be set to block all popups (everything is blacklisted by default), the user then adds sites to the whitelist. A site on the whitelist will be allowed to have its popups show up. This is handy for sites that use popup windows legitimately.
In Phoenix, when a site attempts to launch a popup window, an icon shows up on the bottom. When clicked, the site can be whitelisted.
For me, this is key. I'll put up with more overhead, etc. for clean, anti-aliased text. It's been a whole new browsing experience since I enabled this for Mozilla, but none of the same methods work with Phoenix and I assume it's not supported.
Dumb question - how did you get your optimoz mouse gestures to install under Phoenix? I never have a problem when installing them using Mozilla. But under Phoenix it says it installed correctly and it appears under the chrome directory, but I don't seem to have gesture support when I restart Phoenix. Is there something special that you have to do?
http://mozillako.hypermart.net/ieskin/
After installing it, you'll be surprised at how much "faster" mozilla seems.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
The Phoenix project may be a wonderful thing, but from the home page I can't tell why, or whether I want to use it. At least it mentions what it is in deep geek.
Too many open source projects assume that those who read their home pages already know what the project is for, or know why they would want to use it.
I would ask open source project folks to at least put a short description of their project (with minimal cryptic references to geek acronyms) and also a list of reasons as to why one might want it.
Computing today is too wide a field for all of use to keep track of every acronym and every open source project, so a web page that says "this is a better BLURP, using FARGLE and the new XVC standard" is pretty useless.
After all, what good is it to put a lot of work into a project if you keep away a lot of users by inadequate "marketing." If you want your work to be used and appreciated by lots of people, tell us what it is and why we want to use it!.
The only good weather is bad weather.
Using it right now!
For me Phoenix > Mozilla > IE
I know RAM is cheap, but has anyone noticed Phoenix using less memory than Mozilla?
-- taking over the world, we are.
I still use Mozilla most of the time, because I use Mozilla Mail as my mail client, but I have been using Nightly builds of Phoenix from time to time, and I have to say I'm impressed. With the Tabbed browsing extensions and Optimoz installed I think it is the best browser I have come accross.
I think that Phoenix is more than a good web browser though, I think it is nothing less than a complete vindication of the Mozilla project. Pheonix shows that all of the time put into Mozilla has not just produced bloat, it has also produced a code base that is useful enough to make something extremely efficent and effective, extremely quickly.
It is also very good to see something come out of Mozilla that isn't just an unbranded version of Netscape, and I would like to see more of this. Given the work that is going into producing the GRE (Gecko Runtime Environment) which aims to make a distribution of the bits of Mozilla that are used by everything, so that programs can be linked against it without needing the whole broweser suite to be installed, I think that Pheonix and other apps like it (a mail reader and all the rest) could be the future of Mozilla.
Mozilla 1.0 was both a Monolithic Communications Suite and an application framework, and Phoenix has shown the power of that frame work. I would like it if Mozilla 2.0 was just a framework, but it was released with a set of standalone programs that worked well together, but could be used equally well seperately, and I think it would do Mozilla's credibility a lot of good if it was something that definately isn't Netscape.
I wonder if anyone at Mozilla.org is thinking like this.
psr --History is ending.
Wow, amazing tip!!!
Now I'm going to tell my grandmother how to do it!
So intuitive!!!
I just love how today's computers lift the burden off of users.
build witn --enable-xft on a system with the XFT libs (ex. RH8) and you'll get beautiful AA fonts.
--Asa
Please stop feeding every phoenix release into Slashdot's news. That's enough.
...my son pooped on the potty today. Neither event is newsworthy (well, the pooping thing is, but only in our house)
Is it that slow of a news day that a 0.4 release makes the front page? What, Cartoon Network didn't issue any press releases today?
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that every time a new minor version of phoenix is released does not constitute a real slashdot story?
I'm using Galeon 1.0.3. Should I bother switching to Phoenix? It seems all the hype about Phoenix also applies to Galeon. Oh, and I don't give a damn about X-platform over to Windows.
one thing that i am so used to, is being able to cut a URL from somewhere and middle mouse button click on my web browser to launch it.
mozilla and galeon has had this functionality for a long time now, but it appears that Phoenix is missing it.
I also noticed that Galeon2 is missing it as well (although it is currently alpha).
is middle mouse button URL launching popular with anyone else?
Quite frankly, in these days of cd-roms, huge hard drives and high speed internet access I could give a crap about the download size. I don't care anymore it's 5MB or 200MB download. I'd download and install mozilla even if it included mp3 files of the complete work of the mormon tabernacle choir if it was just damned FASTER.
[ Win32 only, though. ]
As long as this (undocumented) feature remains in the code, you can make Phoenix, like Mozilla, have a quick launch thing so it starts nearly instantly. Have a shortcut in your startup folder that runs "phoenix.exe -turbo" (with appropriate paths). Worry not; this will not start the browser, just the quicklaunch.
Now, Phoenix has the same advantage IE has (grumble grumble).
The space unintentionally left unblank.
After seeing how quickly the browser loaded and checking out the great new features I was quickly disappointed to find that I could not change any preferences in regard to mouse gestures.
In Mozilla I had my mouse gestures set to use the middle mouse button and I'm completely hooked on that. Now I find there is no way to do this in Pheonix.
*sigh*
I use a product called "MyIE2" that adds tabbed browing vastly superior to mozilla's or netscape's. I don't use netscape because I am so hooked on MyIE2. it's PC only, I think, but it's free.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
look it up
It has less geek stuff in your face.
I didn't realise that pop-up blocking, image blocking, and toolbar customisation wasn't geeky. If anything, Phoenix is even friendlier to us geeks.:)
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
I love Phoenix. But I don't like the irritating password manager that always asks me if I want to remember passwords for this site. Or if I just submit things to a form, it asks me if I want to remember these values.
How do I turn that off?
One of the many things I hate. thingsihate.org
This troll has already been banned from MozillaZine. She was posting the same rant about this so called "BLUI" in every discussion no matter how tangential.
Phoenix runs almost as well as the unassailable Opera on my system and should be lauded for its elegant interface customization. This trollish abuse is reprehensible and unjustifiable.
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
Does anyone know if there's any way of porting some of the UI speed improvements back to mozilla? Or if someone will come along and make a version of mozilla that's been tweaked for windows so it doesn't take forever? The only thing I don't like about Phoenix is that when you shift-click, it opens in a new window instead of downloading the link.
My favorite feature in IE is the ability to enter just the domain name of a website, say google, and then press control-enter and have the browser auto-complete that domain name surrounding it with the http://www. and the .com at the end. Ctrl-Enter is so engrained in my browsing habits that when I use Mozilla I find myself accidently starting up new tabs with incomplete URLs typed out, which is annoying...
...bloat?
What's up with configurable themes?
I can relate to speed-enhancement, bug-fixes and improvements, but themes? Come on.
I really like Mozilla now compared to IE. Phoenix is even faster, and therefore that much better. But there's one thing I really hate about Mozilla/Phoenix -- Bookmark management. It's clunky, slow, and tedious, and just plain sucks. To be fair, IE's Favorites is a pain these days too. My favorite system was IE's from a couple of generations ago -- where it gave you a simple explorer window, and you managed your bookmarks by drag 'n drop, and/or sorting, like with any other file browser. IIRC, Konquerer still does it this way, and IMO it's the way to go. Phoenix/Mozilla is still a nicer, faster browser overall, but this legacy-Netscape Bookmarks thing has got to go!
Phoenix 0.2 hund on W2k. Phoenix 0.3 hung on W2K. And now Phoenix 0.4 still hangs on startup, on W2K. Mozilla's little brother is looking pretty damned retarded.
You can run phoenix.exe -turbo to enable quicklaunch. It speeds things up even more.
If you're going to compare one browser (IE) that has quicklaunch built into the OS, then you might as well give Phoenix the same advantage.
Does anyone else get an error that the source file can't be read when they try to download the Phoenix install file using Mozilla? I have to switch to IE to get phoenix. It's the same at home and work. This problem is pretty damn ironic. The only site I have had problems using Mozilla with is Mozilla's web site.
Takes just as long to load and requires 4 more megs than galeon.
I already explained this earlier. Phoenix inherently has themes support because of its architect. Not a single thing was done for 0.4 to support themes. The difference was that some people decided to make themes for Phoenix.
If you want privacy, it's worth upgrading for that alone (plus all the exploit fixes). Then Tools:Internet Options:Privacy and you're free to play.
You're saying that only IE offers any privacy??? IE, the one that has a security exploit once a week? You say "(plus all the exploit fixes)" as if it's a positive feature of the browser and should encourage people to upgrade, whereas if Microsoft concentrated on security, as they should've been doing for a while now, there wouldn't be exploits to begin with.
Oh, I know. It's because M$ SuxX0reZ and Lunix RuLEzZ0rZ and therefore I must be wrong because I mentioned IE.
Don't worry Timmah, you'll make some friends when you get put into that special class your parents have been talking about.
I also can't find a link to the source off of their page, which, I assume, would allow me to ./configure, make, make install. The
README mentions, and I quote,
Getting the Source
1. Go to the root of your mozilla tree.
2. cvs up -Pd browser and toolkit
But where is the root of my mozilla tree? What then? Do I do the ./configure... stuff?
I'm honestly sorry to bug y'all, but I reckon some other people are wondering how to do this too.
~squidgyhead
Simply run the phoenix binary which is in the phoenix directory created. This is a binary distribution which means you don't have to compile anything to get it running. eg.
./phoenix
./configure --prefix=/usr (or wherever you want it to be installed)
~$
btw if you ever do download and compile a source distribution all you really have to do is decompress it eg.
~$ tar xzvf nameofarchive.tar.gzip
then change to the directory you decompressed it to and run the configure script with the flag prefix telling it where to install on your machine and then run make, then make install.
~$
~$ make
~$ make install
I am professionally trained in computer science, which is to say
(in all seriousness) that I am extremely poorly educated.
-- Joseph Weizenbaum, "Computer Power and Human Reason"
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