Slashdot Mirror
US Busts Military Network Hacker
yorgasor writes " KATU has an article announcing the case of a mysterious hacker who has broken into roughly 100 military networks has been solved. The hacker is a British citizen and authorities were considering extradition for the case. Although no networks containing classified information were compromised, they do consider the hacker to be a professional rather than recreational due to the large number of networks he hacked."
FRIST POST for P-Town!
Portland's shitty local news station on slashdot. REP-RUH-ZENT.
503, bitchez.
Huh? Something must have been left out of the blurb. If I wank 100 times a day to porn, does that mean I'm a professional wanker?
[o]_O
US busts $2 sand niggahs!
Imagine a Beowulf cluster.
Deade ad
dead
Dead
dead
Dead
dead
Dead
dead
D
dead
Dead
dead
COMPRESSION KILL YA
Please try to keep posts on topic.
Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.
Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate
immediately
Through digital pre-production techniques, a director can get a better picture of the film before beginning production
He is probably a dirty, greasy, long haired linux hippie freak, who smells REALLY bad and hasn't taken a shower or left his parents basement in 5 years
POST PREMIER!
Thanks, Steve
couldn't have been anything THAT serious
Any military insiders/Brit HaX0rs care to describe some US Military systems?
Jon Katz has a new book out. Yup, and its not about the amazing prospects of the Internet and how it will CHANGE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS FOREVER. Nope, that's passe now, as Jon figured out about a year after the rest of us. Nope, this time he's taken to writing some Cat-Fancy wannabe story about his dogs. Think it's a joke? So did I, until I saw this Slashdot banner ad. Disclaimer: I have not read this book, nor do I intend to. This expose is based solely on what I could unearth from Amazon.com
The book is titled A Dog Year: Twelve Months, Four Dogs, and Me . In this (undoubtedly) touching and heartfelt book, Jon reflects on the death of his beloved Labradors, whose "chosen work was to reflect on the state of the world, lick neighborhood kids, and accompany [him] through midlife." Hmmm.
And apparently this isn't the first time Jon's worked his tongue between the collective buttcheeks of the braindead Oprah's Book Club yuppies. In 2000, he published Running to the Mountain: A Journey of Faith and Change , which is a "spirtual autobiography" about (yawn) his midlife crisis. According to the reviewer, Jon was unhappy in his life despite having "...a good job, a good family, and many friends." The solution to this problem, as practiced in the book by Katz, includes "help[ing]his best friend prepare to be a father [and] deepen[ing] his relationship with his dogs." Dear Lord.
As longtime Slashdot readers, we've all wondered why a fifty-year old man who obviously has very little understanding of technology continues to hold an editorial position at the site. How someone who consistently writes like a freshmen college student bullshitting his way through a paper continues to pound out article after article of inanities.
UPDATE: Jon Katz is banished from Slashdot! Maybe if I don't mention him, he won't come back!
To post?
Wow! It took'em 100 or more tries to notice something was not quite right?
They probably had to bait and switch to catch him...
Obviously a pro, anyone who bats higher than 100 hacks is destined for the pros. Is there sponsorship for this wonderful sport of hacking?
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
He must've been looking for the secret blueprints for the prevention of tooth decay...
I know the military is a big target and all but 1 GUY, 100 NETWORKS? Those military network security folks must be pretty lame. Seems like the could have tracked him down a lot sooner if they knew what they were doing.
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
I think he'd better take a much needed vacation. I'm tired of hearing about crackers going to jail. The Falkland Islands are rather nice this time of year.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
calling crackers hackers?
US Military officials discovered the accused's computer was actually only infected with code red and they forgot to patch.
-- AcquaCow
up 12 days, 22:30, 2 users, load averages: 993.20, 994.21, 994.56
*makes note to limit user processes...
Does that come with a 401k plan and a good dental plan? It still probably has a better retirement plan than Enron :P
Here's a link to the story on Yahoo!
/ 20021111/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/hacker_investigation_1
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap
He must have been pretty damn good to evade capture and continue to crack 100 sites. Makes me wonder home they caught him. If you are a professional and can break into 100 US military sites, what's to stop you? I figure if you are good enough to crack 10 or twenty without messing up, they are probably not going to catch you.
Anybody have any good stories of catching elusive hackers, or insights into how they might have got him?
Why, o why must the sky fall when I've learned to fly?
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/
grab your copy of 1.3a now!
Mozilla 1.3a
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021111
His name is: Thomas C. Greene in San Francisco
This is a ploy by the Vultures at El Reg
All your bases are belong to us...
Tournament Management Online &
It will be interesting to see if the US are actually able to extradite a Brit for having commited cyber crimes. Wouldn't the penalties be a fair bit harsher over the pond than in Europe?
ISO certified == THX certified
Why not just extradite them? The US has a extrdition treaty with Russia I'm sure. Now I'm not saying that arresting them was "wrong", but why resort to deceptive law enforcement tactics like this?
Throw some military sysadmins to a court-martial for dereliction of duty!
Ok, don't be that harsh on them. Scare em a little, then let the go with a warning. But national western militaries cannot continue to run their networks like this. It's dangerously irresponsible.
For a national military to assume they can use police arrests (force of arms) to secure their networks is folly. Armed force only works against attacks that are perpetrated from inside your range of military dominance. For the US that's a big area, but there's still many places where they can neither call in a SWAT team, nor direct an unmanned plane to assasinate the target.
If this fellow had been a professional (earning money from these hacks), then he'd be living in a secret compound provided by his employers in Iraq/Korea/China. True, the internet bandwidth isn't that great there, but a good hacker doesn't need it. He can just compromise some broadband PCs in the US or UK (possibly with the help of an agent on scene- a retailer who sells trojaned machines for instance) and use that to leapfrog to the real targets.
(If this guy was any good, we'll find out that this British suspect was just a patsy)
One big argument against more stringent computer-crime laws in the US is that they permit businesses and the military to postpone installing real network security. Why bother defending yourself, if the FBI just busts the punks for you?
This sets us up for disaster in 20 years, when the economy really needs the internet to survive day-to-day, and China has caught up to our 2005-era connectivity levels. If President Bush the 3rd angers China and they set 200 top computer professionals at making mischief, the damage could be real.
("Vaccinate now! Free Heckenkamp")
If the guy is from Britain, he is considered a hacker. If he were from Iran, he would be considered a terrorist.
They should just scrap the term hacker and call him a terrorist, because thats what breaking into the US millitary is, terrorism.
There is a difference between breaking into a companies network out of curiosity and breaking into a millitary network. At worst, it could be considered an act of war from the country where the hacker originated against the country that was hacked. This would be bad for britain as they are totally dependant on America for support and are controlled by America's millitary policy.
100 successful hacks is quite impressive, and it's good to see that America's war on terrorism is paying off and this man was caught before he could have caused serious damage to the western world.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
He was just looking for Halle Berry pr0n. :(
Karma: Excer..ex...excellahhh...realll good (mostly affected by drinking not done in moderation)
Closed Source
Admin'd by a Private Buisiness
Secured by Microsoft
Run by volunteers at each polling place.
Kinda makes you wonder if you really did/will vote, eh?
If this guy does get extradited to the US, I bet he'll be working for someone in a five-sided building real soon.
The article was vague. Maybe he made a mistake and gave the investigators something that identified him. Equally likely, maybe the infosec guys decided the payoff for letting him continue hacking for a while (firm up the evidence for a conviction, be able to convict him for more serious offences, and most importantly figure out what his motives and techniques were) was more important than having him arrested immediately.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Remeber hackers have an ethics clause built into their "contracts" . Once broken you trade it health plans for orange jumpers and the chance of having your manhood "rooted". I hope he gets a cell big enough to count the days in binary on his wall.
It's well known that europeens are jelous of america's superiority in the world. Chances are this man was just another european communist terrorist. As always, america puts its foot down and wins against the whiny destructive euros.
They are just mad that we had to save them in WW2
I'd be awfully surprised if there were such a treaty -- here's a reference that there's not There's still a pretty big difference in each's concept of justice, and they were bitter enemies until a few minutes ago.
There's no problem with deceptive law enforcement so long as it is not entrapment or go so far as to violate the constitution. For many types of crime it is the only practical way to get a collar. It depend son the circumstances. One of my favorites were a bunch of guys who owed child support; the cops had arrest warrants and called them all to tell them they'd won the lottery and all they had to do was claim the prize. It was a slaughter....
Interestingly, some countries are unwilling to extradite to the U.S., Russia, or other countries that practice capital punishment. This is a background issue re 9/11 prosecutions.
...the British have TWICE attacked the United States for no good reason and lost. OK, it's been a few years, but do we KNOW this guy wasn't OSS? The British have been known to carry grudges.
Seriously, I would not argue that Britain is totally dependent on the U.S., and certainly not control by our military policy (they can defend themselves against, um, the French?). It just looks that way because they're the only ones (the gov't anyway) who agree with the U.S. half the time on international issues.
If this fellow had been a professional (earning money from these hacks), then he'd be living in a secret compound provided by his employers in Iraq/Korea/China.
Of course, this falls into that Bondian good vs evil bullshit.
You have to worry about your allies like Israel which has been conducting missions in the States as if it was Egypt as much as your enemies.
calling hackers crackers?
It said, "this is just practice"
are you a moron?
"All your base are belong to us". Please, when posting shitty jokes, at least post them correctly.
"Hey brother Christian with your high and mighty errand / your actions speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying"
thes man uses lunix! Note he si fat as a slummy slug and he smells liek a trash bin
Tsutomu Shimomura takes the credit and turns it into a book and a movie... just to make some extra cash.
all you trolls must BOW before him, for he r00ls j00!!!! He will take you and shove you right up that guy on goatse.cx. Where you BELONG!
military cyber-guards.
.mil and *all* of it was easily readable by the viewer....
I was watching this discovery channel documentary and there was this military type, jar-head cyber guard guy. He was standing there talking about how they monitor all the traffic on their networks, and keep a close eye out for any signatures of attack.
He was stressing how secret they keep all their information about their networks - that they dont let anyone know even their IP sets assigned to different networks, and that this information could help an attacker find out the machines they would need to attack.
The whole time he was talking about this - he was standing in front of a bunch of monitors, and the ones to the left of him was scrolling some sort of log and it was showing IPs to hostname mappings and some traceroutes as well. They were all in the really low IPs - and their hostnames were all
and i do not think it was something that was done on purpose and made to look like an accident. Not by the way these people were acting.
especially since they avoided filming any of the screens that people were working on.
So I am not too surprised.
Sleeping with a lot of men/women makes someone a slut; it requires getting paid for it to be considered a professional.
Hrm, "they do consider the hacker to be a professional rather than recreational due to the large number of networks he hacked."
/. reader? This is so cool! I thought I was unemployed, but no, here I am, practicing my profession *right now!* Rawk!
Wow, I guess I'm a professional
That's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard, you retard. Just admit you're a reactionary little child who can't control his temper even when he knows he's being manipulated.
Why don't these people just share the data they find, I mean leech everything and put it up to a porper distribution place (the same place you download movies and music from).
where millions upon millions of US Taxpayer dollars go: To keep military networks secure!
Seriously, I don't think that the guy was trying to completely keep his identity a secret. If something is easy enough to hack, there is no fun. I used to play around with my school's network (causing no damage). But since the network security was so easy to break, I leave their network alone and only use their computers when I have to (they are slow Win98 machines anyway).
Gee, I guess deadpan slips by some people a little too easily? I thought I put in enough hints. Read it again, slower....
Thank you Geoilrge Bush, and God Bless Amerika!
Look at this, it's obviously flamebait! I hope m2 bites you on the ass
"It is not in the hands of those that cast the votes, but in the ones that count them."
I assure that my original post was written in the clearest of mind and calmest of spirit. You sound like you could use a drink. Good Day.
And check out the idiot posters...
Amazing what is considered "insightful" these days. This knuckle-dragger seems like he is barely able to understand how fire works, much less a keyboard.
'millitary' is correctly spelled 'military'.
'thats' should actually be written as "that's".
He also needs to learn what the [SHIFT] button is for.
Others have already reiterated the definition of terrorism. I would just like to point out that the United States Military is hardly a bastion of nobility. For such things as exposing american citizens to nuclear fallout or toxic gases, I really don't get to worked up about hacking until bullets are flying.
So go wave your stupiÈâáag. You are proof that ignorance is bliss...
This persom obvioursly knos ahwt ish tlaking abot!
You can bet your sweet ass that was sanitized screens you where looking at. When I worked in the navy command center we where frequently visited by the press and if they had camera's we threw bogus stuff on the screens to sanitize the area before entry. So what you see is completely bogus smoke and mirrors.
Got Code?
Professional (adj) - practicing for a livelihood.
Either this person was making his money from this (which I doubt) or this is another case of "they don't know the what they are saying".
Just like the abuse of the words "theft" and "pirate" in relation to software when no one is permenantly deprived of anything.
These terms are being misused, not out of ignorance (although the ignorance is obvious) but out of a desire to create a false impression and make the crime seem worse than it is.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
...who broke into roughly 100 unclassified...
.mil web sites designed to attract Army recruits or something.
Did you folk all miss this phrase? Focus on the word 'unclassified.' This retard probably hax0red a bunch
...pointed out that your description is "redundant".
Last post!
Basically what he did was sit at a keyboard typing and looking at a screen in, presumably, the UK. At what point was the crime committed? When he hit the return key, or when he viewed the resulting data? I would suggest that is the case, and any prosecution should take place in the UK - there is plenty of existing legislation.
I am sure that someone will start bleating on about the theft of CPU cycles, or whatever. But this is extremely abstract. If the sites were non-secure, then presumably they had public access. If we are going to pass laws that people can only view websites as the designer intended, it may suit the kind of Government idiots that once threatened someone with prosecution for telling them they had an open SQL port with anonymous login on a military server, but is hardly going to promote good design (or be enforceable).
This is exactly the kind of case that makes the notion of a World Court reasonable. But I can just imagine his lawyers going to the EU Courts to argue that (a) the US is refusing to allow its citizens to be subject to the ICC, thus demonstrating that US law is not even-handed, (b) in the present climate of hysteria he could in any case not get a fair trial, (c) that US law is in conflict with EU human rights legislation.
It seems to me we have more to fear from the kind of idiots that go in for the kneejerk "This guy looked at a Govt. site! He is a terrorist!" reaction. The word for them is Stalinists, and the last thing we want is for the delightful security and political policies of the former Soviet Union to gain a foothold in the Republican Party.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
We should free him? Why? He doesn't need us. He's doing such a marvelous job of freeing himself that he shouldn't need our help.
Hey, if I let someone crack into my machine after I commit really incriminating and expensive online crimes, do I get a "Get Out Of Responsibility" card too?
What a load...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Q: How can you tell a professional hacker has hacked into your network?
A: You can't. That's why he's a professional.
100 networks before they caught him? Somebody really should email those military admins something like "man tracert > catch_hackers_really_fast.txt"
You don't know what you're talking about. The International Criminal Court is only concerned with "mass crimes" against humanity, especially this committed by by states.
Try reading ICC Jurisdiction:
1. The jurisdiction of the Court shall be limited to the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole. The Court has jurisdiction in accordance with this Statute with respect to the following crimes: (a) The crime of genocide; (b) Crimes against humanity; (c) War crimes; (d) The crime of aggression.-- Matthew - matthew.gream@pobox.com, http://matthewgream.net
..about this story, is that noone of slashdotters objected this time to use of word 'hacker' as a label to 'cracker'.
Oh well...
Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
Classified networks are air-gapped from unclassified networks, which the Internet is by definition.
I love it when some U.S. gov't computer getting hacked makes headlines....The most sensitive info a hacker could ever get would be HR type info.
I wasn't that bothered when I saw the headline. However, once I noticed he was British... Nice to see someone's keeping oursides rep up.
Neal?
hmmm...
Who dibs making bumper stickers?
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything" -- Josef Stalin
PACKET KIDDIE!! Just kidding, of course, but what if he was? I mean, wouldn't that cast one hell of a doubt upon our military servers? For the #1 military in the world, we ain't secure. What if this guy actually decided to F with us. What if he decided he wanted... say... 10,000 troops sent to Luxembourg, perhaps. Seriously, this guy could have done some serious damage. I bet he will get one of those "Work for us or rot in jail" deals from the US Gov.
Now watch this drive.
I read that book when I was about 14 and I really liked it a lot...
it is based on a true story (I knew someone from the lab where the hacking took place), and it is well written
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
So let me see if I have this right.
The US Military want to prosecute somebody for doing something they've been doing for years ?
I dont think its so unreasonable to think that this guy could be a pro, many people have said that just becuase he has hacked tha many networks he isnt a pro, which is true. But i think that it is not unreasonable to assume that for him to be good enough do this, he could well be a pro, even if he wasnt bing payed for these specific hacks.
wish i didnt have to post as an anon coward, but ive forgotten my nick/pass time to sign up again i guess!
The British have been known to carry grudges.
Yep, but only for around 50 years or so; Americans seem to carry them for 200 years.
Shit...
You'd thought they would have told me first before spreading it all over the net.
Still, they have to catch me yet.
See me run...
The present US govt. will not allow the extradition of US citizens by the ICC for the most serious crimes, war crimes, mass murder etc. So why should anyone allow extradition to the US for lesser crimes committed outside its jurisdiction? Either the Bush government recognises that all states and citizens have legitimate cross-border security interests, or it doesn't. At the moment, it recognises them in a very one-sided way (You can prosecute Milosevic, but not Kissinger.) It also has a habit of tearing up international treaties. So why should other states recognise treaties with the US? This is a no-brainer. If Bush wants to be isolationist, fine. If he wants to be internationalist, better. But saying "I can be isolationist in my interests but internationalist when I want something from you" - Tony Soprano government.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
NSA spooks don't worry about things like "some extra cash." He was making a rather decent 6 figure income before he had even heard of Mitnick. Sorry. 15 minutes of fame, maybe. But not "some extra cash."
i wonder how england can extradite a british citizen... doesn't he have the right to stay there because he is a citizen?
"At the moment, it recognises them in a very one-sided way (You can prosecute Milosevic, but not Kissinger.)"
A fucking surprise ???
They never recognized Allied bombing campaign on 3rd Reich as a crime against humanity yet they sentenced to death some Nazi precisely for this kind of "crime against humanity".
Are you fucking lame or just plain stupid ?
Winner or stronger always gets to make the rules around the house.
Government (including military) organizations can't have honeypots. It's called "entrapment", according to my friendly neighborhood Comm officer.
.mil or .gov domain.
They will, however, quite happily use the data from a non-government honeypot. It just can't be in the
And priciple Skinner did it recently with mountain bikes, to Bart and a few others he didn't want around, when Chalmers was coming around for an inspection.
I don't want to hear tell about a bunch of bumper stickers etc. trying to save Fredrick.
Just send over a spook and snipe his ass.
Or at least no more than any observation operation set up by police.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
wakeup and smell the bullshit folks.
"hacked" can mean he only looked at them. It does not mean he actually made it into them. Knowing the US Government as I do, he probably pinged them...
And consider, what does it mean to "break into a network?" I know how to break into a computer, but into a network? Perhaps he showed up unannounded at the officers ball...
"The officials declined Monday to say whether this person was already in custody, but one familiar with the investigation, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, said investigators consider the break-ins the work of a professional rather than a recreational hacker." Yeah right! There is no such thing as military intelligence. Any script kiddie could have done this and "to see of I could," is the only reason he or she would need. Mafiaboy was a script kiddie. The military couldn't find their ass with a map to it.
How ya like dat?
Actually, top military theorists have yet to work out a way in which Germany's 'Sealion' invasion plan could work.
Indeed, Operation Sealion was doomed from the start, the British Isles where never seriously threatened with invasion. Operation Sealion required the defeat of the RAF to establish air superiority over the English Channel, then defeat of the Royal Navy, before a landing could even be considered.
The RAF-Fighter Command held their own against the Luftwaffe, RAF-Bomber Command sunk most of the Rhine Barges to be used for the landings. Costal Command kept the Channel clear of the Germany surface fleet and the Royal Navy chased the German High fleet around the global, either sinking it's ships or forcing them into home waters for the duration of the War.
The Royal Navy defeated the Italian Navy (which was superior in numbers and equivalent in technology to the Germany Fleet. The 'Desert Rat's' (British Army Regulars) defeated first the Italians then the Germans in North Africa, the Italian forces in the Middle East. (It is also perhaps worth mentioning the Italian reputation for cowardice is largely unfounded, faint, thrust, retreat, consolidate was very much the tactics of all sides in North Africa.)
Also what many seem to forget is that prior to WW2, Great Briton (& Empire) was the pre-eminent Military power in the World, in essense it was the Worlds only true super power'. In a pre-WW2 (& nuclear weapons) sense this was measured by the ability to project an effective military force around the world and provide the logistics to maintain a compaign. There was only one nation able to do this before WW2, and that was British Royal Navy. Undeniably the cost of WW2 for Briton was the loss of Empire.
In fact, it was the Poles that saved us (1930s Polish hackers won WWII for the allies).
And then we (all Western Allies) betrayed them.
The British bought time,
The Americans bought material,
The Russians paid in blood.
(Oh, and it's Pyrrhic, not phyrric. Even without the correct spelling, it still refers to Pyrrhus, so you should at least capitalize it as a proper noun. Classical education ain't what it were.)
...
I normally loathe and despise grammar nazis (of which I most emphatically do not classify your post), for a couple of reasons: I don't spel very well myself, and web fora are notoriously lacking in spelling checkers, and I find the thought being communicated more important than the fine details of writing (exception: formal works for publication), particularly in casual forums such as this.
All that having been said, yours is the first such correction I'm actually greateful for. My education was public (which is arguably the antithese of classical these days), and Pyrrhic, while I understand the phrase from having seen it in many contexts where the meaning was apparent, was something I never knew the origin of (and probably wouldn't have managed to spell anyway). So for the first time in the 15 years I've been on the 'net (and perhaps the last), I just want to say thanks for that little tidbit of information
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I'm less concerned that they catch this guy and more concerned that they do something to seal up their networks.
Then who will be safe?
I don't see why the US cares so much about European nations not extraditing dangerous criminals out of anti-American or ICC sentiment or concerns about the death penalty. That goes for the 9/11 terrorists as well.
If the Europeans don't want to see criminals at the hands of the US, let them pay to keep them locked up in cells forever. What benefit does the US receive by ticking everyone off trying to get criminals extradited only to have to pay for trials and possible detention for life. Let those who seem to know better pay to keep them locked up. As long as they aren't out on the streets blowing up cars the US should be happy...
Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
* attacking that supertanker the other month - terrorism.
* ramming the Cole - legit.
* blowing up the WTC - terrorism.
* blowing up the Pentagon - legit.
* shooting off-duty US marines in Yemen - legit
A few of my buddies are some place in the Persian Gulf now. I sincerely hope that they come back in one piece...even though they are following rules that none of our enemies follow! Go fuck yourself.
Put him in a cell block with all of the lameo first posters!
M P. html?ex=1037509200&en=873ff5626a3c666e&ei=5062&par tner=GOOGLE
But, now we have this treasonous bastard, Vice Adm. John M. Poindexter, who wants to be able to do the same to MY data without a warrant. See
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/09/politics/09CO
at the damn NYCrimes (you gotta register with Big Brother to see it, sorry). No way! Bust the crackers - both the amateurs and the profressional. Preserve the Constitution. Save the Republican.
DAMN EVIL!!
The KATU link is gone... here are alternatives: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2002/11/12/4200- ap.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/12/10363086 82032.html
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
Just before Hitler was going to begin his invasion of Russia, the Greeks attacked the Italians, forcing the Germans to aid ally Italy and thereby delay Operation Barba Rossa by two weeks. This delay found Hitler's troops in the midst of a cold, brutal Russian Winter, and the Germans were not prepared for such conditions. Recall that the Russians barely won that battle. Napoleon's folly proved Hitler's downfall.
Yes, but then we can't interrogate the terrorists ourselves. We'd be relying on foreign intelligence to tell us what we want to know. This is, of course, assuming that the current administration has any desire to review intelligence that does not support their predetermined course of action.
The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
They probably don't know how he did it which is why they are wanting him instead of killing him. Either that, or we are getting soft.
The reason the military didn't catch this dildo is because of pure ignorance. Military is trained by dildos who can't type, and the people who trained them also. All along they take their orders and training programs from upper command dildos... who haven't a clue how to administrate networks or educational programs on teaching the next IT elitists. Government could mess up a wet dream... that is why the militaries network was compromised.
The laws of the European Union don't allow member states to extradict to countries with a legal system not compatible with the European system.
That means e.g. to all countries with death penalty like China, the US and Saudi Arabia.
These laws overrule even bilateral treaties, making them illegal in the first place.
Hiroshima?
Nagasaki?
Hadly directed attacks towards military installations. If that wasn't using terror to make Japan surrender, I don't know. Yet I haven't seen Truman (or the generals, or Congress / Senate) on trial for it. Now why doesn't that surprise me?
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
A British computer administrator has been accused of hacking into 92 networks operated by the US military and the space agency Nasa. US investigators say one break-in shut down navy systems immediately after the September 11 terror attacks. Authorities say two of the computer systems were at the Pentagon. The intrusions also made inoperable the network that serves the military district for Washington. Authorities have disclosed indictments in northern Virginia and New Jersey against Gary McKinnon, 36, of the Hornsey, north London. He was indicted on eight counts of computer-related crimes, including break-ins at six private companies. Court records in Virginia said McKinnon caused £566,000 in damage to computers in 14 states. In New Jersey, McKinnon was accused of hacking into a network of 300 computers at the Earle Naval Weapons Station in Colts Neck, and stealing 950 passwords.
Because of the break-in, which occurred immediately after the terrorist attacks, the whole system was effectively shut down for one week, officials said. That station replenishes munitions and supplies for the Atlantic fleet. "This was a grave intrusion into a vital military computer system at a time when we, as a nation, had to summon all of our defences against further attack," said US Attorney Christopher Christie in Washington. McKinnon, if found guilty, faces a maximum penalty of five years in federal prison and a £157,000 fine, Christie said. Christie confirmed that officials are weighing whether to seek McKinnon's extradition from England, a move that would be exceedingly rare among international computer crime investigations.
Ugh... not dinesh jotwani!!!
I only remember one hacker at the other end...
big surprise.
~ jon
Here's the latest
Since the O2 site seems to be overloaded or pulled the story, here's the CNN story
Why not just send some CIA Predator drones and assassinate the guy?
We've already done it. Just proclaim the guy a "terrorist", which will make him a valid target in a "war" that has no forseeable end, no defined boundaries, and no defined enemy.
Or does the US only perform extra-judicial executions against its own citizens?
Given an infinate number of Monkeys sitting an an infinate number of Unix terminals, could they crack in to the US military network?
-JB (I had to do it)
"I love deadlines. I love the "whooshing" sound they make as they pass by." - Douglas Adams.
I think the poster meant a segment on a tv news show.
Was a waste of time really, its not like it hasn't been done before, and anyways, if the yankees leave their doors wide open someones going to walk in sooner or later. Oh i expect the yankees will want to extradite the guy or whatever, and knowing how pathetic and weak the uk premier is he'll hand him over with a nice basket of goodies. Its about time the uk realised the usa is using hackers etc to peek into its security and reveal secrets the yankee scum should not know about. We know its only a matter of time before someone from the uk kills a usa citizen out of sheer frustration due to the usa's big headed attitude. Oh btw, over 80% of brits don't want a war with iraq, they see no point. And its no good the cia, fbi or whatever coming over and killing another female police oficer like they did all those years ago, outside the libyan embassy. I say hack more secure files and wipe em. :-)
[The views expressed above may not be those of the original registeree]
The German plan was a fine one, and could've worked ...
It was fine for the invasion of Norway where strategic and tactical surprise was achieved against numerically inferior military at a low state of readiness.
It was a poor plan against the British Isles. 1) No surprise, not even tactical. 2) British had a superior force on the ground. 3) No prospect of quickly seizing the seat of Government. 4) Little prospect of retaining seizing Airfields, 5) Little prospect of seizing or retaining ports.
German forces could've pushed onto the British Isles
The Germans had limited amphibious capability therefore allowed only limited provision for landing heavy equipment, tanks, artillery, trucks etc; beyond seizing a port as the primary objective. Germany Parachutists would have been extremely vulnerable to land based mechanised counter attack (something not possible in Norway due to terrain). They would have been in a worse position than the Allies at Arnhem during Market Garden, without any prospect of retreat across the channel. They would have been decimated.
In summary German amphibious & parachute forces where adequate to take Norway, they would have been completely inadequate to take the British Isles.
Sealion was never implemented or even seriously consider, it was a plan, not an operation. The German high command even the reckless Hitler realised it was complete folly.
the RAF was seriously attrited.
The RAF had three fighter groups available in the British Isles. Two front line fighter groups and one stategic reserve. It committed only one front line group to the Battle of Briton. The RAF's plan was to rotate the Southern and Northern Groups, if the Southern group broke. It never broke. The Luftwaffe may have started with a numerical advantage but in practice the RAF had many practical advantages, RADAR, it operated over friendly territory, it had lower losses, higher production of new aircraft, much higher levels pilot replacement and aircraft better suited to the task in hand.
Maybe if the German resources weren't split on the Eastern front they could've overwhelmed the defenders.
No. Barbarossa, the German offensive against the Soviet Union started in June 41 nearly a year after the Battle of Briton finished in August 40.
I agree with you about general US foreign policy. It is typically one-sided.
What I meant was that the ICC or a World Court is not directly relevant in this case: what is relevant are international treaties and agreements on extradiction and recognition of crimes - irrespective of anything to do with the ICC or a World Court.
You said: ''yet tries to extend US jurisdiction outside its borders. But this is ridiculous. If the actions took place in the EU, on what basis could there be extradition to the US?''
Incorrect: The actions did not take place in the EU - the act of intrusion occurred in the US, because the physical machines are located in the US. He was a legal entity ''reaching into'' the US and acting within the US.
The crime is "intrusion into computer". Where is the computer: US. He is located outside of the US, but the act occurred in the US.
-- Matthew - matthew.gream@pobox.com, http://matthewgream.net
However, and I am aware I may be taking this argument beyond the scope fo the usual Slashdot discussions, it is precisely the concept of "reaching into" a foreign server that I take issue with. The actual actions of the alleged cracker took place in the UK, not the US. What actually passed to the US? Nothing physical (the electrons in the wire do not cross the Atlantic). In effect, he asked the server to do something (passed information ) and it responded by doing it.
Now consider an analogous case. Suppose I phone up someone in Chicago and tell them I am their long-lost uncle from Tampa. The person is foolish enough to believe it. I then persuade them to remit me $250 in cash so that I can make it to Chicago, with some hard-luck story. Now, what crime have I committed? Possibly fraud. Where did I commit it? I suggest that most people would say "In Tampa", because that is where I was when I told all those lies, and that is where I actually received the money. What happened in Chicago was that someone behaved in a foolish and gullible manner - which is not itself a crime, though perhaps it should be.
In the same way, although the server was physically located in the US, the action of telling lies to it took place in the UK, and the "stolen" information was received in the UK. The server answered questions and responded to requests to perform certain actions. Had the server ignored the requests, nothing would have happened. The situation is quite different from, say, a terrorist missile launched from one country into another, where a physical destructive agency is passed over which does not rely on the cooperation of an agency in the attacked country.
Of course, IANAL-just someone who has lawyers in the family.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
You need to talk to your lawyers about legal jurisdiction. These jurisdictional arguments are well established in legal community (I am currently a law student).
...).
k e.html
The "telling lies" and "information was received" are not the issue, the issue is "theft/break into computer" which clearly happened in the US. Although the act was initiated elsewhere, it clearly happened in the US (the server is in the US - how much more clear can that be?).
Your point about treason has mixed relevance. Firstly treason only applies to citizens of a country, not to non-citizens, and it relates to state secrets and issues that affect the security/wellbeing of a country, not mere criticism (although the line can be fuzzy, most sensible people know where it is). Although in international law under the "doctrine of effects", some activity outside of a country that has impact upon the country can be taken as affecting law within that country (so, for example, an external person inciting hatred within a country causing significant legal problems could be considered to have violated said countries laws -- whether or not extradition will help, though
I'd prefer not to continue this debate.
Read this: http://www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v50/no1/wils
-- Matthew - matthew.gream@pobox.com, http://matthewgream.net
* blowing up the Pentagon - legit.
* dropping a 2000 pound bomb on a wedding party - a regretable accident.
Based on your taxonomy, how would you classify the act in which a US pilot dropped a bomb on a bunch of Canadian soldiers who were engaged in some night-time training activities?
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
Hadly directed attacks towards military installations. If that wasn't using terror to make Japan surrender, I don't know. Yet I haven't seen Truman (or the generals, or Congress / Senate) on trial for it. Now why doesn't that surprise me?
There are a number of people who argue that "Bomber" Harris should be considered a war criminal because he ordered the fire-bombing of Dresden at a point in WWII when Germany's defeat was all but certain. That absolutely pales in comparison to the nuclear attacks against Japan of course, but some might say that Japan was all but defeated prior to the nuclear attacks as well...
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
One could not be a successful scientist without realizing that, in contrast
to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists,
a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also
just stupid.
-- J.D. Watson, "The Double Helix"
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...