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Updating Quickbooks Forces Online Membership?
garyebickford asks: "I've been using Quickbooks 2001 for a long time, sending out invoices via email.
A couple of months ago it asked if I wanted to do an online update - these occurred occasionally and I agreed. There was no information regarding what the update would do, although IIRC there was some mention of 'new features' and 'improvements'. Since that time, it is now impossible to either fax or email an invoice without signing up for Quickbook's 'Online Business Member' program since it appears to use their own mail server. Membership is free for now, but the required click-agreement forces me to agree in advance to any future fees! I have no interest in letting Intuit know about my invoices and other financial information. As a result, this software is essentially useless and I must find a new accounting package. I've looked at various OSS packages but haven't found one that has developed far enough to use in this way. But there are many out there and I haven't kept up to date, so maybe someone else out there can suggest something. I'd prefer using it on Linux, of course. I'd also be interested if this loss of functionality would be sufficient to consider a class action suit to recover costs of conversion." The issue at hand is that commercial software has started to force consumers to fall into such schemes to maintain features that they already had. Today it is Quickbooks, but what about tomorrow?
Uninstall, reinstall, patch up to the level that caused the problem, and be happy with it.
You charge Quickbooks srry, I couldn;t resist, I love the soviet russia jokes :)
Assuming all updates are optional, why not just reinstall the program and ignore the update requests?
.. Largely because it's good enough for what I need, and it runs in OS X. There's annoying bugs (print to PDF, then attach to email, since they haven't kept up with Jaguar's Mail api), but I don't have to go sign up for no dumbass thing to use it.
Also, TimeSlice for OS X is very nice, it itemizes your billing time (if you bill per hr) and exports it into CSV..
There's also AccountEdge for OS X, but it's overkill and overpriced for my simple needs.
Is there anything comparable for Xwindows? Good Q..
Use a program like PDFmailer to send quotes and such.
...and I'm not even a "business" customer. I like to hunt up old versions of programs, especially older shareware stuff that I might use a couple times a year, simply because it isn't as 'crippled' as today's version, or because nowadays the company making it requires that you give them a valid email and a reason for being interested in the software. And I'm not talking about finding old programs because they're easier to find cracks for; I actually do pay and have paid for many programs I find useful, and send money along fairly frequently for the free programs that deserve it. But for stuff that just strives to annoy, I'm having none of it.
Everyone on slashdot has a journal.
Quickbooks 2003!
Has a similar scheme. I find I'm forced to spend a lot of time explaining this all to clients; they sure are pissed. Open Source tax/acctng sware would be very useful. And an AOL client...
Having the invoices from millions of small businesses all go through the same server in the same format makes that server a VERY juicy source for the Office of Total Information Awareness. This kind of centralization has to be resisted.
I looked at QuickBooks, MS Money, etc and for complete control, nothing can match using spreadsheets for all the tracking, etc. One master spreadsheet for accounting gets numbers from all the other spreadsheets (sales, expenses, etc). Will I need something stronger a year or two from now? Yeah, and I'll be reading the posts right here for an idea on what I will do then. But for anyone who is a one-h@x0r shop up to a couple of employees, spreadsheets fit the bill just fine. Oh, and of course online banking (Citibank is pretty sweet and reasonable fees for corporate account).
Good luck!
We had the same thing happen a few years ago to us. We were using it at the start of the new year wrapping up previous years finance stuff, a message came up saying that since they didn't want us to get in trouble, they were going to disable the tax tables in 30 days time so we couldn't use them. We would have to purchase new tax table info from Intuit, EVEN IF THE DAMN TAX TABLES HADN'T CHANGED!
No tax tables makes Quickbooks about as useless as tits on a boar hog. Our CPA switched us over to Netledger at Netledger.com
I'm good with numbers -
Why dosent kde release 'kash' or something.
Tomorrow all commercial software will pull this sort of stunt. To get to full 'pay per use' models.
They will have to, once the unwashed masses become technically educated enough that they realize what is going on with this constant upgrade cycle and stops buying new products since what they have 'works well enough for me'.
The entire market is based on this deceit. and will suddenly implode..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
... where access to the customer is being treated and fungible (and thus marketable). I can point to a whole string of court cases starting with CompuServe v Cyber Promotions, Ebay v Bidder's Advantage, Intel v Hamadi, etc which have basically ruled that companies who "own" the infrastrcuture for communications effectively are private networks (think cable) and courts are relunctant to impose common-carrier, anti-competition or even anti-competition rules on them. Companies are not stupid, if they can't get lock in one way, they'll try another legit mechanism and in effect, vertically coordinate their services (software, middleware, skinware = GUI/web layout, tangleware = EULA + legal entanglements) to capture business.
... yes ... debateable ... depends on the customer whether they cna get satisfaction for service
Is it legal?
Is it proper?
Is it worthwhile?
Perhaps you should write a little letter to your fair-trading rep or competition commissioner requesting investigation into unfair trading practices based on their market power to exclude future competitors (say ASPs).
LL
I used Quickbooks a *long* time ago to help out with my father's small business. For myself, I've been using GNUcash for about a year, and I'm fairly pleased. Some of the reporting options could use some work, but it keeps track of all my data, and that's the important part. Quick look at their website indicates a new stable version is on the way, with some things that might help you, although the faxing/emailing features don't seem to be on the radar...
- Small Business Accounting Features:
GnuCash now can be used for Customer and Vendor tracking, Invoicing and Bill Payment,
and using different Tax and Billing Terms in a small business.
- OFX Import:
GnuCash is the first free software application to support the Open Financial Exchange
protocol that many banks and financial services are moving to use. The development of
OFX and HBCI support has also resulted in an improved transaction matching system that
more accurately picks duplicate transactions.
Use a free pdf print driver and print the quote from quickbooks to pdf, then send to client. I agree this quickbooks change sucks, but while you're looking for a replacement this should work fine, it has for me.
I am switching Quickbooks after I send out W2's this year for very similar reasons. Quickbooks will stop allowing you to do payroll if the TaxTables get too out of date. This normally wouldn't bother me, but they offer absolutely no way (that I know of) to manually enter the tax data, the payroll functionality get killed.
To get the new TaxTables, they have really upped their subscription price to more than I think is reasonable. Also, they periodically force an update to the Quickbooks software to be able to use the new TaxTables format. So, for me to keep using Quickbooks, I would have to pay for a new (higher) TaxTable subscription and also update to a new version, which I can't justify.
I have looked at PeachTree, and it seems very usable. It's Tax Table like subscription is about the same as Intuits (around $150), but they do allow you to manually enter details if you need to.
I hate to see Inuit stoop to this, I really like their product. I used Quickbooks at version 5, and liked it. (I don't need any features now that version 5 didn't have). I just can't justify them doing these kind of things to customers, though.
Read lots of good stuff about this, but as yet haven't had time to try it out. Looks like it could do what you need it to:
http://www.compiere.org
Bad intuit, bad No market share for you oh wait, a reletively useful app that most people will usebecause it is a useful service that may or may not cost money later
I haven't had time to fully use this yet, but I am considering purchasing: AppGen MyBooks (www.appgen.com) which has a Windows/OS X/Linux accounting program. Looks nice to me.
it is now impossible to either fax or email an invoice ...since it appears to use their own mail server.
Couldn't you just do something like print the invoices to a PDF then email that through the mailer of your choice ? Sure beats having to move your operation and data to a new system, and with the convenient plus that if you want, as some do, you can always have a copy of the invoice exactly as it was printed.
It's true actually... when I started my job back in September I was using Windows XP, and as there didn't seem to be any chance to switch to Linux coming soon I settled back into life as a Windows user, at work at least. Despite not really needing much software, I found I needed a truckload of commercial utilities to get anything done. We have a slightly dodgy connection, so a download manager that supported resuming (as neither mozilla nor IE appear to support this) was a must. On goes Download Accelerator. We need WinZip of course. Hmm, WindowBlinds FX looks nice (and it is nice). The BBC only streams in RealAudio so to save myself going insane I put on RealPlayer so I can listen to the radio while working.
After a month or so, I realised if I could get the Adobe SVG plugin in IE working under Linux I could switch over to it, and so I got CrossOver (patched Wine to fix some bugs [sigh]) and was very happy.
A week or so ago I rebooted into Windows, and was assaulted by raw commercialism. WindowBlinds had come to the end of its trial and popped up a window on every boot asking me to buy it. RealOne insisted on popping up adverts for its new features and offers, while cleverly not appearing to be running. WinZip of course has a nag screen whenever you run it. Download Accelerator inserts a blinking lightbulb into the system tray. It was almost physically unpleasant battering my way through all this garbage to get to what I wanted. I had become desensitised to it as I started using Windows again, then going back to it after so long was a real shock.
After a while, you realise that seemingly every Windows app comes with some extra code whos only purpose is to try and make you spend money, or sell your eyeballs for a bit. It has nothing to do with enhancing the app, and this is true even for basic must have utilities like decompression programs and audio decoders. I wish I could suggest an alternative to Quickbooks but I don't really use programs like that. Except I know support was recently added to Wine for it.
Why don't you call Intuit support and come up with some reason as to why their new software won't work for you. Like your small office has only one phone line and there's no ISP in your area, or your ISP went out of business or something.
Or maybe that you live on a boat, and you can easily send mail via USPS but to use the Internet requires a trip to the local cybercafe, since you can't get internet access on your cell phone?
I purchased Quicken Deluxe about this time last year. It came with a free downloadable version of QuickTax. I decided to download and install QuickTax around January so I could get a headstart on my taxes. Around this time, I upgraded my computer and had to re-install Windows. I re-installed Quicken Deluxe no problem but when it came time to re-install QuickTax I was notified that I could not do it. A version of the software had already been installed on a different computer! I was told to call their tech support line if this was not the case. So I did. I called their non-toll-free number long distance and was notified that their office was closed and would be until Monday (this was late Friday afternoon). So, I could not do my taxes that weekend. I waited until Monday and phoned their tech support line. I had to answer some questions to verify my identity and was told that if there ever was a next time, I would have to fax them with appropriate documentation verifying my identity! So, 3 days and 2 long-distance charges later I was left with a program that would only last until my next reformat. No thanks. I will never buy another Intuit product because of stories like my own and this one. Moreover, experiences like this helped push me to going 100% Linux/OSS - I've been doing so since late August with much less problems than I expected I would have.
I'd suggest checking out Appgen's MyBooks,
http://www.appgen.com/products/mybooks.html
It works on Windows, Linux, and Mac, will import your Quickbooks data, and you can try it free for 30 days. I've downloaded it, but haven't played with it much. Maybe other Slashdoters can attest to its usefulness.
Regards,
Chris
And an AOL client...
NO!!! If AOL refuses to follow industry standards, then they should pay the price. If enough AOL users get tired of things not working, perhaps an end can be put to the AOL juggernaut.
I wonder if tying in of software with (potentially non-free) online services is a transition phase in changes in the software paradigm. It seems like M$ (and others) are starting to look at software as services, potentially bringing it all online at some point. By tying in stand alone software with online services, I wonder if vendors are trying to blur the line between stand alone software packages and online services.
---
Open Source Shirts
...sending your rant to them, instead of /.? I'm sure a quick search would come up with OSS alternatives, but I'm sure you'd prefer to stick with what you're used to. If you emailed them, and then followed up with a phone call to voice your concerns, I'm sure you wouldn't be the only one. If they become aware that some users actually do read their click-throughs, changing their ways would set a precedent for other companies.
I am also very skeptical of Microsoft's rental scheme and the "one big application" motto which the Win32 world is heading where each application is an additional component with a monthly access fee.
These schemes sound like the rent-to-own scams that were popular a decade ago where customers paid 4x times the worth of various products through rental schemes. If you rented a couch for example through rent=to-own and refused to pay anymore, you would lose the couch and pay a fine for breaking the contract and all the money you invested already in it is gone. Most customers just paid through the roof so they would not lose there invested money and still retain good credit. However with proprietary file formats you lose all your data if you decide to not use the application anymore. In other words your screwed.
http://saveie6.com/
I am in the same boat.. I have been using fineprint PDF factory to create the invoice and mailing it right from ther same PDF creation screen.. it works but I would rather just be able to specify MY own SMTP server from within quickbooks. also I just found a product called invoy for quikbooks... It is a invoice mailer http://www.invoy.com/default.htm for quickbooks... but looks like it would be usefull for a high volume invoice mailer... I don't bill out that often to use it... and it seems to have an issue using exchange as an SMTP server..
You're talking about using their servers for a service. If course you're gonna have to pay. Just because you didn't pay in the past doesn't mean that you won't have to later. You're not entitled to use their servers for free. I use Quickbooks daily, and I can press print and drop a PO or an invoice on a fax machine just fine. I can also export and email 'em if I really, really want to. You're paying for the convenience of using their service. Nobody said you *had* to use their service at all.
I helped a customer migrate from an ancient version of ACCPAC for DOS (Computer Associates product) to Quickbooks 99, and the upgrade to 2000. During the upgrade to 2000, we notices a much stricter set of rules for use, registration (which has always been over the top), and even simple networking of multiple systems. And the updates process was a nightmare, with more hoops to jump through than a Sigfreid and Roy show. When the customer bought 2001, and brought me back in to upgrade, the noose tightened further. Despite having several hundred dollars invested in QB over the years, I recommended heavily that they find another product to move to, because I could see how harshly Intuit was trying to keep it's small business accounting marketshare. Despite the cost and commplexity of Peachtree, I did recommend that over QB again, or moving off of a Windows based platform altogether. I still recomend this to all small businesses. Intuit is no longer the good Quicken company they were...
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
...Bear or Wulf clusterfucks YOU!. What a coun-try!
There are heaps of folks on the NGs that defend this practice - notably Mike Block of http://www.blocktax.com/
This message was recently posted to alt.comp.financial.quicken. It appears Turbotax 2002 may be installing and starting a spyware service without any notice. I just checked my machine, where I installed Turbotax last week, and indeed, this service is running:
--
Recently I found a running Service named C-DillaCdaC11BA on my Windows XP Pro system. Being an individual interested with Internet Security (viruses, etc), I naturally became concerned that my system may have become compromised. Starting my investigation revealed the associated file (called "CDAC11BA.EXE") located in the Windows\System32\Drivers directory. In addition, I found a hidden directories under the C drive. This first directory was named C_DILLA" and below it was a directory named "SafeCast Product Licenses". Contained within this directory was a single file called "BD6FD000.DAT".
I traced the dates/times the files and directories were created to the same date/time I had installed this years version of Intuit's TurboTax. This is interesting because last year's version of TurboTax did not install this application and nowhere in this year's installation did it make mention of installing it, a third-party application that attempts to hide itself and runs as an additional service! A search of Google for C-DILLA revealed the following article, entitled "C-Dilla! "Copy Protection or Spyware?". It's located at http://www.tswn.com/modules/news/article.php?item_ id=45
Nowhere on Intuit's website does it offer a description of this service or appropriate removal instructions. Is it really copyright protection or is Intuit utilizing spyware with their latest version of TurboTax?
1. Create popular software program
:)
2. Sell popular software program
3. Force fees on users after the fact
4. ????
5. Profit!!!
Actually, I guess in this cause you can skip number 4 entirely.
Sig.i>
We use quickbooks at work, at I was excited when they went to an online version... great, I don't need Windows to run the client anymore. Wrong.
The new web version requires Windows. Yes, Windows. Not even Mac users can use it. It uses ActiveX for no apperent reason. All of the functionality could have easily been done in HTML with a tiny bit of JS. But they made ActiveX a requirement.
If it's so obviously unnecessary, why would they limit their available customers and produce a seperate Mac version? Here's why.
Quickbooks want's to be an ASP. It's in fashion. They start to design a web version. Microsoft threatens them (because it's in fashion), as there are millions of computers that payed $300 for Windows just so they can run Quickbooks on top of it. Quickbooks ensures Windows will still be required, by an ActiveX dependency.
Microsoft maintains monopoly. User gets screwed.
In other Intuit news, I've been a TurboTax user for about 4-5 years (both federal and state). Since they're putting in 'Product Activation' this year, now I have to figure out which competitor to use.
You'd think they'd learn that this crap is losing customers.
I am wondering if some OSS package exists. Please do my research for me as I am either too busy or, more likely, too lazy.
Thank you,
Some Fat-Ass Loser
I don't know of a single professional CPA who recommends Quickbooks...
When I took accounting at college they recommeded Peachtree Accounting, and this seems to be what most accountants prefer. In fact, the university I went to now requires that you use Peachtree.
I have had my taste of intuit for a while now. I use plain old Quicken. They mislead you with 'extreme prejudice' into thinking you need the online junk. Its part of the install. You never click cancel during the install right? But you gotta know when the install is over and the garbage begins...
In any event, you can usually get the updates from their website if you are 'Sherlock' enough. Thus, you don't have to use the auto- weputyourfinancialinfointoourbagoftricks update junk.
Of course this is with Quicken and YMMV.
I just can't believe you have to do _anything_ online to use your non-online software.
Perhaps they subverted you into using an online version? I think intuit has online versions of all their money packages and sometimes the offline versions turn themselves into web-forwarders to the online versions if you are not careful.
Why in the living HELL would I wan't to _PUT_ my money online????? I mean my whole portfolio? I simply can't imagine why.
...start writing OSS apps that are 1) equal, or 2) better than the commercial version. Anything less will be unacceptable. Don't bitch because people aren't using OSS, bitch because there is no OSS apps for people to use.
Oh, don't expect gratitude. You're the one who clamored for OSS usage.
After losing information crucial to QuickBooks operation (ex-wife) I reinstalled QB99 on a new machine and called Intuit for my serial keys only to find out they don't support calls related to any product over 2 years old. They refused to give me my keys (which they had on file) and essentially forced me to fork out $400 for a new version of QuickBooks. Somwhere along the line they also threathened to take me to court after I demanded they give me what I legally own. Needless to say I will never buy an Intuit product again and encourage others to do the same.
...you'd have known all about Intuit's anti-consumer practices months ago:
Twist in Intuit's crippleware techniques doubles the cost of its tax-table service (4/27/01)
Intuit is up to its old tricks: Adding taxing burdens on its QuickBooks clients (3/17/00)
There is another column by Foster -- the #1 and only consumer IT columnist of whom I am aware -- on the practice of making QuickBooks users transmit invoices using Intuit's servers but you'll have to find it yourself.
adjust your hosts file accordingly and use your own mail server. Or if the address/IP is hardcoded in you may have a big hex editing job.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
THE ONLY REASON you don't like the new "feature" (albiet it kinda sucks) is that YOU DIDN'T LEGALLY PAY FOR THE SOFTWARE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
Seeing as you are a regular reader of Slashdot, it is safe to assume that you never pay for software.
Boo Hoo!
I'd have to recommend Peachtree over many other accounting apps out there. Although it has a slight learing curve it's very powerful and reliable.
It is unfortunate that Intuit is alienating its customers to the point of them turning to other accounting apps. When that happens most companies tend to migrate to the most visable Platform out there, which is usually Microsoft. It wouldn't suprise me if in two years Intuit Sues Microsoft for being a accounting software monopoly instead of Intuit listening to their own customers and giving them what they want.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
Incompatible with what?
GPL?
[o]_O
This story highlights one thing I've always said: When it comes to a 'mission-critical' system, you should always always always have a fallback plan in case the current system lets you down.
That goes as much for home accounting as it does for the space shuttle's life support.
There is a difference between using a computer system and relying on one. As soon as you rely on it, you open yourself up to disaster if it stops being reliable.
In most cases, you don't have to actually buy the alternative solution straight up; the important thing is being prepared for a situation where you might need it.
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
so i take it u DIDN'T read the EULA. my guess is that it stated that they would screw you in that and you agreed....
I really do not understand people's "need" to always have the newest version of a program.
I upgrade *ONLY* when I encounter either a major bug (meaning "uncircumventable") in what I already have, or what I have simply cannot do what I need it to.
For my web-surfing machine, I run W2K. I will *not*, *ever*, upgrade to XP simply because it doesn't do anything "new". Perhaps I will need to upgrade to the next version of Windows someday, but considering Microsoft's (and most companys') release habits, I doubt I'll need to for at least a few more versions. Hell, I only upgraded from NT4 because it had poor PNP and high-end multimedia support (which I don't really consider a "good" reason, technologically speaking, but when I couldn't run 90% of modern games or get any new hardware, I didn't have much choice). Before NT4, I used DOS (the entire Win95 line quite simply sucked, and amazingly, seemed to get progressively *worse*, not better).
For email, I use Calypso (well, mostly, I use Elm, but for my junkmail account I find it easier to get it via POP and just let the nice filters strip out 99% of the spam). Calypso, for those who don't know it, still uses a text-only interface (basic support for HTML/RTF, but the only email I get in HTML consists of spam, so I don't really care 'bout that).
For compiling under windows, I still use Borland C++ 5. I suspect I'll have to upgrade when 64-bit chips hit the mainstream in a year or two, but at the moment, that 6-year-old compiler does the job just as well as anything I could go out and buy today.
The "solution" here seems obvious. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Don't get me wrong, I have no strong love for "retro" computing (except classic console video game emulation ). But of the programs I regularly use, not a single one has made any real improvement in half a decade.
And now, we see companies moving toward *decreased* functionality in their programs, along with non-permanant licenses to use them. Explain how that benefits me?
Ever price QuickBooks checks? 4 times as expensive as generic Quill. Fun, eh?
There is *NO* substitute for QuickBooks. We can't get the Linux based developers off their KDE vs Gnome kick, so we are stuck. Has any Linux developer ever finished any project?
And if you want to take the time and trouble you can hack spreadsheets to be just as automatic as Quicken in any modern Office Suite, like, say-Open Office. Frankly, since I understand the math involved, I'm not sure why anyone would bother with propriatary accounting systems.
Roll your own. If you don't understand the math it will force you to learn it. In my opinion you *should* understand the math of handling your money, especially if it's a business.
What's more, commnand line spreadsheets are readily available ( Visicalc itself is now available for download) so even people, businesses or nonprofits with little or no capital can run a spreadsheet on free antique hardware that Quicken would choke on.
I highly recommend the book "Elements of Spreadsheet Style" by John Nevison. Out of print but available used through Amazon for under ten bucks.
An older Edition of the classic book "Small Time Operator" known as the "Computer Edition" includes complete Visicalc code for all of your bookeeping needs. This is also available used through Amazon but will set you back twentysix bucks. Cheap price for avoiding the propriatary rat race and a hell of a book for anyone just getting started in their first business.
KFG
hey , not to be a pita but can the editors just
stop the crappy two line comments at
the end of each post. it just makes them
and us [the readers] look stupid. thanks but we also can read the stuff you know?
[actually if the comments made sense i would have never posted this but for quite a while it looks like its a ragtag set of folks passing yodaesque comments on the world and how it should run sitting from their basement]
no offence please.
vv
I found this out when I move QB6 to my laptop, two years after the tax tables expired. A few weeks ago, when I put QB6 onto my new XP box for the office, it again updated my obsolete tables, which I could then copy to any computer that previously had QB6 installed.
Of course, that doesn't fix the problem of giving in to Intuit's propaganda about "improving" the product, UPGRADE NOW!!!, and losing access to previous features because they're "properly implemented" now...
Last night, I talked someone out of Quicken when I told them about how Intuit's products constantly badger you to buy some service or product that is GUARANTEED to make your financial life blissful. She just wanted to balance her checkbook!
Quickbooks is not a real app, it is a collection of scripts that runs in an IE window. Using 98lite to uninstall IE ruins your QB install.
Now get off your ass and help write a Linux equivalent. +3 my dying backside, you're a nitwit.
My Quickbooks started bugging me about updating...it said I couldn't do any payroll functions until I updated. Unfortunately the update it download bombed every time. I was stuck. Turns out the .inf file had a 'check payroll update' line that I could change manually, and it stopped bugging me after that. I don't use the tax tables, but there might be a similar solution for your problem.
Evil is the money of root.
Incompatible with anything but a single sourced computer that runs a closed-source GUI.
Does anyone know of a good replacement for quicken on mac OS X? I bought Quicken 2003, and I'm fairly unhappy with it, especially since it crashes for no reason. I'd like something which has some scripting capabilities to pull down data from my bank, or remove duplicates in .qif files (like a .qif from a bill pay service, and the corresponding check on the bank .qif).
I would assume it's possible to make GNUCash work, but last time I tried to compile that beast under linux and make all the deps work, it was nearly impossible. Probably would take a couple days or more under OSX.
Preferably I could find something not chocked full of ads or something that does not contact it's maker for any reason. Why can't companies make good solid software anymore without trying to screw their clients into upgrading or buying services?
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
I've seen more and more businesses require a credit card number that they will use automatically when subscriptions need renewing, etc. What I've done is used ShopSafe, a feature of Mastercard. I make a new number, with only enough money in it for the initial necessary payment, and with an expiration date in the not-too-distant future. When the automatic renewals come, the business will have to come back to me to get a new credit card number. Therefore, I am in complete control!
it goes ALL YOUR BASES ARE BELONGING TO US!!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! SO funny!!!!
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
What's so bad about product activation? It just registers your product electronically to make sure that you're not pirating the software. You did buy TurboTax, right?
And if you crack it, bet that Intuit will use the DMCA to get you.
Why they never will make a Linux port, because they worry about the reputation Linux has for being Open Source, and also because we're percieved at being a minute userbase, especially on the Desktop.
...When tired that is :).
Hopefully this makes sense...never good to post on Slashdot...
It's about 6 months old, but here is an article you may find useful on Linux Accounting systems. I am in the process of completing part 2 which should be available soon: http://l4sb.com/portalarticle_search
Approximately 3 years ago a friend had a meeting with someone from Intuit who claimed they could monitor our website using end-user copies of Quicken.
He said they had "one million" in the field which could be used as monitors.
We never considered their solution, but we were shocked to hear of the backdoor. Or maybe it wasn't a backdoor. Maybe they were just going to re-direct a percentage of users to our website and then have us re-direct them back.. We've always wondered..
I don't use windows, so I wasn't able to monitor the network traffic.
Die you intuit trolling basstid. DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Intuit, with their lame-ass "PAY US ALL THE TIME" model then started charging me $25 a month for their tax table update plan. You can see what's coming... there were NO TAX TABLE UPDATES. In fact, the only thing I ever got from them was a note saying that intuit were DISCONTINUING MYOB and that I was now FUCKED FOR ACCOUNTING IN CANADA.
Fuck you, Intuit!
He's using a Windows-only product, but would prefer a Linux solution. Doesn't sound like an "OS-X only" solution would work terribly well for him. Imagine suggesting Windows-only software for the myriad questions of "I want a Linux app that...." How would that get moderated? +5 interesting?
I've never cared for Intuit's crass commercialism. Even after you pay them for their crapware, they insist on begging you to spend more. I'm still using Quicken-2000 (Basic), but never allow it to "upgrade" itself, and as soon as I can get it to export my data correctly, I'll use gnucash. (So far I get no joy....) What I actually worry about more is that every day it seems that someone is trying to get into my pocket without my permission, and it makes me very angry. Is this because I'm old and just a curmudgeon, or is it really getting worse?
.nosig
What's so bad about product activation? It just registers your product electronically to make sure that you're not pirating the software.
It also ensures that you have to call them and grovel if you upgrade your system between tax years.
In order to bring 2001 tax info forward into the 2002 software, you have to have both versions of the program installed. Except that the previous version is already installed on a "different computer"(same HD, different MB)
And don't get me started about them requiring Internet Despoiler to be installed as well.
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
If you don't like it then write your own. If your just bitching cus they don't have enough money then try coughing up a donation to pay for the work they've done. If you use an opensource program or think you might in the future then get off your arse and send them a payment. Donating $5 per program you'd have to pay for otherwise would be a good start.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Get Simply Accounting, simple and less crap esp. if you live in Canada.
They were gonna take YOU to court simply because you were asking for your keys? A while ago I would have said BS!, but you know, in this day and age I don't doubt it.
I just found out today that Quicken 2003 forces you to subsribe in order to use their product, at least here in Canada it does. The flier says that you can upgrade to Quicken 2003 XG for $59.99 and that lets you use Quicken 2003 XG for 12 months. After 12 months "customers must renew or upgrade in order to continue to use Quicken" Some bargain-the full version used to cost the same amount and you could use it for years! I'll keep using my current version until transaction downloads no longer work (or probably sooner), then dump quicken and go back to a spreadsheet.
Intuit used to a good company but its turned into garbage. I would recommend to avoid their products as well.
And everyone called him a radical.
I think software companies are going this way because it secures income. I think you will see this a lot more then we have been.
I guess Opensource software has to win to fight this problem.
Atto
I didn't use the preview button, so get over it!!!!
Mike
I've never actually used Quickbooks, but around 5 or 6 years ago I think, Intuit offered free demos of it. They mailed it to you. On seven 3.5" floppies.
;)
My friend ordered some absurd amount of demos. None of us went without disks ever again.
Even now, on the occasion I need a floppy disk, all mine are still Quickbooks disks. Some are still in their original plastic wrapping. Not only that, but never once has a QB disk failed me, whereas many other disks (old AOL disks, even some I actually bought) have lost their data.
So anyway, they probably lost so much money on disks that they now need to make up for it by screwing their customers.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Yes, I have purchased TurboTax each year. I'm also too lazy to send in the rebates. What happens in 2 years when Intuit goes belly-up and I need to check some of the calculations? Oops, they're not around to let me use the product I purchased, and the IRS doesn't care.
When a company starts treating all its customers as potential theives first and customers second, it will lose customers. Just as Intuit lost this one.
Additionally, if I were to use TurboTax and then sell it used in the same tax year, this would be a problem. (Note: I have never done this, but AFAICT it is totally within my legal rights.)
One could always mangle the packets so Quickbooks thinks it's talking to their server.
go to www.wlsam.com, it's a radio station. On the left, click on the listen button. The listen page will give you instructions on how to get player8.
OK You guys convinced me. I guess it's time for me to break my 12 year Quicken habit.
Quickbooks is and always has been a joke in the accounting world. Thereare many MANY real accounting systems out ther that most businesses use. Check with some of them. If you want to run linux and can get your hands on the program that allows yourto run Xenix software in linux try Excalibur. It's 10,000 times better than anything quickbooks can even try to accomplish, allows POS terminals to be cheap text terminals, and like other real accounting packages, allow you to update your tax and other tables by hand. I strongly suggest that you learn how to do all that by hand and get a full grasp instead of relying on some program to do it all magically for you... The IRS is not going to take an excuse that quickbooks mis-calculated it..
finally there are at least 30 dos based systems that are far better than any windows accounting systems. (you want speed and accuracy instead of pretty icons right?)
I have helped at least 20 businesses switch away from quickbooks.. and they now have a better grasp of their companies financial picture because they now understand every aspect of it instead of the dumbed-down picture that quickbooks paints.
Switch away.. you will be much happier in the long run... and more profitable!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Both solid, and useable, although still in process of development so they arent perfect..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The first, and last, time i used quickbooks was in 1999. A customer requested it so i stopped by the local shop and pick a copy up off the shelf. After installing the software and setting up their books it told me that i had 60 days to register the software or it would no longer work! I couldn't believe my eyes. Shareware in a box? WTF! I called the tech support number and the poor guy told me that i had to register it and they would give me a key to unlock it for continued use. I couldn't help but explode on the guy. Actually i felt really bad about it. But anywho, the registered name for the software is: I cant believe i have to register this #&$*^#$ %$#! after i purchased it off the shelf. If the customer wasn't so heavly addicted to slothware i would have writen a db front end for him. it would have cost him the same amount.
Wow. Updates that force information to be sent to the company's servers, for a possible future fee. Who does Intuit think they are, Microsoft?
Uninstall it and reinstall it, when asked if you want to do any updates in the future click "No".
-- iCEBaLM
He'll never get that far. You don't think the unistall will work, do you? It will leave some kind of register doo-doo behind, if not in the data itslelf.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
That's what I remember it said on the QT2002* box that I read, then put back on the shelf.
*Canadian retail version
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
I had a similar problem occur with Pro Engineer Pro/ Flythrough by PTC. (I think that was the package portion). This software costs thousands of dollars a year to keep 'maintained' these fees are a percentage of total purchase price, which varies depending upon when you buy it. Also, if you have licenses that are like 10 years old, and extremely expensive (as there has been several price drops since) you pay the upgrad price on the initial purchase price, even if you would be paying less for being a less loyal consumer and having bought it more recently. Further, within the last year, they have unilaterally decided to replace operation of some components of some licenses. This is software they are replacing, that i am paying to keep using, but they are discarding it and requiring me to purchase new stuff. It will still run after the discard date, but not if i use any of the new software i'm paying thousands of dollars a year to maintain. What a scam. I have basically paid them thousands of dollars a year for NOTHING. I would move to OSS in a heartbeat if it wouldn't destroy my company's production abilities so massively, as there is not a oss competitor.
I just received a $40.00 subscription charge from Mcaffee for their on-line "tune-up" product. This was something I bought a year ago for a client...and we've long since moved on to another product. I had no idea the charge was coming and there is no way to get it removed, that I can see, by going to their web site.
.have sworn by the QuickBooks product for years, and recommended it to many. No more. They are driving my accountant batty; she has to have a copy of every version from '95 - 2003 to service all of her clients.
They must be learning from Intuit. I also had the problem with QB 2002...
That is precisely what ms is up to. '.net services' etc. Ms is betting the farm on moving to a services hosting model.
Intuit's sister program, Quicken, is headed down the same course. Here's the situation with the Australian version of Quicken 2002, which is produced by the local distributor Reckon:
1) Forced registration and machine-specific activation, or the program stops running after X times.
2) Forced collection of personal details during registration. In fact, if you just tell it your phone number, their automated system will tell you your address (unless you have an unlisted number).
3) Forced telephone reactivation upon reinstallation. You can't reactivate over the Internet (this only works for the first installation).
4) No right to sell your legitimate, boxed copy of the software to someone else if you no longer wish to use it (Kapital is the same in this regard, despite the company's claims).
If you give them a fake name and address, you'd better remember them, otherwise you won't be able to reactivate. And, for your information, there is no QUICKEN.INI workaround in the Australian version, and no "cracks" available.
Don't be surprised if us Aussies are a test market for this, and the rest of the world is next. I switched to GnuCash, but as far as I can tell, most other users have been perfectly willing to take it up the arse.
Good bye Intuit,
I loved you for years. I used to use you to see how to write a great UI for a GUI back when I was going from programing for DOS to Window$. I also thought the world of you cause back in the 80's you were very well done, lean and mean, and you were a cheap date, and NOT married to Micro$oft - even though the Feds had to stop the marriage.
We have been together for years - you sent out many thousands of dollars of invoices for me and kept the old check book under control. Quicken, Quickbooks, and TurboTax have been on every PC I have had over these many years.
But when I upgraded from some 90's version of yourself to Quicken 2003 Premier Home and Business things did not feel like they used to. I did not need Quickbooks anymore, and I felt like your were not a part of my life as much as you were after my money (now you wanted to know my total net worth.)
AND YOU REJECTED MY MAIL IN REBATE.
Good bye Intuit
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
GNU has an ok C compiler, and some useful cli utilities, but I avoid anything GNU for the desktop like the plague. I haven't even tried GNUCash, but after struggling with the Gimp, I can imagine how usable it would be. I bet it even has little pain-in-the-ass pop-up windows. What the OSS world needs is a real accounting package written by real programmers who have a clue what businesses need. A bunch of 1337 h4x0r coders in high school and college really don't know what the hell they're doing in a business setting. The best accounting software for Linux is Peachtree on Solaris.
What about Simply Accounting 9 (Canadian Ed)? I've been using v8.5 for a while and found it to be pretty good. I'm fairly comprehensive and a much more true accounting system than QuickXXX ever has been.
pi=sigma{n:0-infinity}[(1/16)^n][(4/(8n+1))-(2/(8n +4))-(1/ (8n+5))-(1/(8n+6))]
I used to do tech support for the Quickbooks and Quickbooks Pro line back in version 4+5. At that time they were a very fun, if low-paying job to have. They moved their entire operations to Tucson, AZ. They closed down the center in Rio Rancho, NM. They catered a big luncheon in a tent and sent all the temps home. The rest of us had to work 90 days more to get our severance pay. I always thought it was an odd way to announce a closure. Other than that, though, I always thought it was a great company. My supervisor, Travis Wheeler, even shaved his head on site after losing a bet. (kinda a dumb stunt, but he's at least honest when he loses a bet he shouldn't have made). He also got us some Nerf Crossbows so we could entertain ourselves by foam-fragging each other in the middle of important calls. I never saw them use this kind of method before. I don't approve. I will say, though, that QB is a great product, but Peachtree has really progressed since 1997 and should probably be checked out as a result of this new tactic. Sorry, Intuit. It was great while it lasted, but only Microsoft could get away with this kind of noncompetitive crap.
If you are willing to move your accounting over to a webapp, check out NOLA. It uses PHP and MySQL and is free and GPLed. I looked at it a few months ago and it seemed promising, I need to grab the current code and see how it looks now...
A man who wants nothing is invincible
for $20 a month now, Quicken will let you keep your books on the web so that you can share them with your accountant...at least this is what my accountant tells me. He's been trying to get me to do this QuickBooks online thing, which seems like a pay to beta service...the "advantage" is that your data is housed and stored elsewhere and you install no software, the disadvantage is that it is windows explorer only (? dont ask me why--something to do with the way the browser works) and that it has limited functionality at the mo. So cough up those $ to help intuit get their product right! It seems that this is going to be the way the product is going to go--I'll put money down that one of the next five versions will be migrating your data to a web based application....
use IBM AS400! If you can program all those spreadsheet cells, you can set up an IBM iseries database. Old Style RPG is good enough and you can access it thru all your excell sheets. They are very pricy though. But you own all the software with no CAL fees. (they do use artifical CUP limits though, but it's not the same as MS by a mile)
We had the same thing happen with QB 2001 and ended up converting to Peachtree about a year ago. We're a small IT consulting firm with 9 employees. We actually purchased QB 2002 too, after a support call costing $300 said QB 2001 had a bug (er, I think he called it an "undocumented feature") in e-mail invoicing that only QB 2002 provided, if we really needed that functionality we had to upgrade. Just two months after that purchase we got "downgraded" on an upgrade that came in from Intuit automagically. In our case we were on their Basic subscription and had to upgrade to the Deluxe subscription at around $50 per month if we wanted to keep using the features we had just paid for in the upgrade. We have since dropped all Intuit products and will never purchase anything from that company again! It's hard to do since they're such a juggernaut, but it had to be done.
We switched over to Peachtree with an acceptable level of pain, and have been very happy with it so far. The sales rep at Peachtree said at the time they were receiving record numbers of people switching from QB to their product for exactly this reason.
We did review some Linux and open source packages at the time of the switch, but none were full-fledged enough to meet our needs. Plus, you don't want to mess with your accountant's software, he/she can make life miserable if the tools aren't perfect.
You're the weenies claiming you want world domination. Put up or shut up. I gladly pay for working software. Pre-beta MP3 crap from kiddies doesn't get a nickel. And no, I'm not going to donate in the hope that some day the kiddies will grow up and write something useful. I pay a real programmer to write what I need if I can't buy it from a real software vendor. Quite frankly, I've seen little of value from the open source folks. There are a few gems, and I do donate to them, but they're few and far between, and run in the server room on a "real" unix.
Use a dns redirect to make it think your local mail server is it's own.
That should put a stop to it, and setting up a hosts file on linux / windows is piss easy.
You could try CheckBook Tracker -
http://tony.maro.net
I've never used it, but I've heard good things.
For other than XP:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Intuit\QAgent\Guid
"AppID"
"AppName"="Quicken for Windows"
"AppVer"="11.0.0.0"
"Enable"="Yes"
"M
"SubAppID"="2"
For Windows XP"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLib\{4E2B30D0-E0A2-11D2-
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLib\{4E2
@="Quicken 1.0 Type Library"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLib\{4E2B30D0-E0
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLi
@="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Qu
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLib\{4E2
@="1"
[HKEY_CLASSES_
@="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Qu
The chairman of our local LUG tried AppGen's MyBooks at a small trucking company he works for, and reported only marginal success due to software bugs and instability, lots of crashes, and functionality that wasn't completely implemented but the UI leads the user to beliece that it is. In other words, AppGen has probably another year's worth of development and debugging before MyBooks is really ready for prime time. Unfortunately they had to go back to Quickbooks after the failed experiment.
This proves his point in a major way. The question remains, how long are people going to put up with such abuse?
Are there any open source tax preparation packages? I hear about this or that checkbook program, but the thought of doing my taxes warms me as much as a binary Repository for system configuration.
If we can balance our own books through Open Source software, maybe we can pressure the government to balance its own. Uncle Sam's accounting 'quirks' make MCI's vanish into--and I've heared this used in real conversations around DC-- 'decimal dust'.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
Peachtree is awful! I must get junk mail from them at least once a week and spam from them once a month. This is all a result of me registering as required to use their software. The interface is equally awful. When you find a better solution then Quickbooks or Peachtree let me know too!
Switching to Linux can be an adventure!
AOL doesn't want to be another normal ISP. They don't want to provide you with straight dialup. That's not their business plan. They don't follow the standards, because they don't want to be a commodity service. They want a differentiated service. A lot of people use AOL specifically because once you get the CD, it's easy to install, and it has a good user experience. It's much simpiler then configuring the various pieces of software that you might want. It gives them something to compete on besides just price. If all you want is lowcost dialup, go someplace else, AOL isn't what you are looking for.
They want to make accessing their service, easy, simple, fun, and unique. Anybody can do straight dialup, what AOL provides is much harder to do. Not that I want it, but it is harder.
I've never had AOL, I never want AOL. However, I know people who have it, and they love it. If you don't like AOL, send the CD's to those crazy people who are going to dump them on AOL's front lawn.
Kirby
First they suckered you into "upgrades", then they force you into them.
I started with Quicken. That was such a wonderful program thru about V3.0. The next couple of "upgrades" had lots of bells and whistles that seemed nice, but I got lost in the toys and wasn't paying attention to the actual accounting. Ouch.
Then there was the matter of the "upgraded" programs crashing all the time. Sometimes I lost data, sometimes not. In any case it was a pain in the arse.
A few years later, after I had become a *nix convert, I went to work for a small company. When I started they had zilch for an accounting system. Scraps of paper. That's no joke. So the owner hires a wiz bang accountant who promptly insists on Quickbooks.
I yelled, screamed, jumped up and down.
We purchased and installed Quickbooks. The accountant punched in the data and we were off and running. No sooner did we get things running and, wouldn't you know it, the network portion quits on us.
You guessed it.....gotta buy a network license upgrade.
So the owner takes a loan from her mom, gets the upgrade and we're back in bidness. Until tax time.
Manditory tax "upgrade". Isn't that like a tax tax?
So she shells out more of the green, gets the tax upgrade and everything is fine for a few more months. Or so I thought.........
The boss calls me in and wants to know why my department is only doing 57% of goal. I look at her numbers, from Quickbooks, and they don't match my invoices. Not trusting Quickbooks I tracked my own department in spreadsheets too (StarOffice 5.2). Sure it was double the "paperwork" but it proved worth it.
I never did find out the whole reason that Quickbooks was losing transactions. Didn't care. That's Intuit's problem, right? Not according to them it aint.
All that money you pay them and if "nobody else is having this problem" then you get zilch, zip, nada for tech support.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not picking on Intuit here. IMHE they are just par for the course in the windows world.
But didn't they start out as a Mac product?
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
I've noticed that no one has brought this up yet...
How is it that this (Disabling feature of a program after its sale, then force user to pay money to get it re-enabled) legal?
Surely this breaks consumer protection laws in the form of bait and switch, at the very least. Thought I would be more inclined to call in extortion.
I currently do this with my business and it works well. Just make sure to include a link to download the appropriate pdf reader.
you know, I am pretty sure that the canadian version of quickbooks does not do this. Of course, maybe it is still to come.
I see Windows, I see Mac. I see Linux on the rack.
I think it is a trend in business plans to move away from selling software products toward selling services around those products. MS is doing it gradually with XP, others like QB are also doing it. It is not an easy transition.
I spent about a year of my time (after work and weekends over a few years) writing my own product. Professional marketers told me that I would not make money from sales, and they were correct.
Nobody wants to buy software anymore; the old model of 'sell, install and forget' is uncool now. Maybe this is from bad support, expensive and mandatory upgrades. Maybe they are afraid that there is an open-source equivalent they have missed and will appear foolish if they pay for it.
So the lesson for me is; give the software away and try to sell services around it, just like QB and MS are doing.
use IBM AS400! ... But you own all the software with no CAL fees.
Yeah, but get used to paying 20% "Maintenance" for the rest of your life. And the client-access software damn well has seat fees.
It costs $300 to buy a EDIT.COM-quality text editor from IBM for OS/400. This is not a cheap platform to own.
this goes right along with a conversation i had with someone just yesterday morning. EVERYTHING is moving to be web based. in the future, people won't buy compters, they will buy terminals that connect to the internet. If you want to use M$ Word, you will have to pay a monthly subscription. same with everything that we use. all data will be stored online, and pirating software will be kind of a moot point, since nobody will have their own hard drive anymore.
it is a step to take the user out of the equation for fuckups. it makes it easier for the developer and for the businesses to keep all their ducks in line, but it makes things hell on the user when, for example, they are forced to upgrade to a new version that takes out or changes some of the features that they were most comfortable with, or liked the most.
kind of an ominous, extreme future, but that is what it looks like now. i could write a book, and call it "2029". it will take place in a war torn era, about a man who lives in Victory Estates, and is part of the working middle class.
Big Brother is watching!
I see Windows, I see Mac. I see Linux on the rack.
I think someday GNUcash might be a pretty good alternative. We're using QBPro 99 and I've often thought about upgrading but they charge an arm and a leg so I haven't.
I tried using GNUcash on a personal level but it was missing some vital features so I'll wait until it's got some more functionality.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
That you are using out of date tax code for your city/state? That's not a very wise thing to do, unless there is some method of manually updating that information and you perfectly update the tax codes and tax forms in your Quickbooks 99 software.
If you were looking to do business as an account for my company and I found out that you weren't using the updates to keep your tax code information up to date, you wouldn't be my accountant.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Before I could backup to my account status to their online thingee for
free. Now all of a sudden they want to charge for the service. I can't
really blame them. They are in business to make money... That was with
the home and small business package. I was thinking of switching to "MY OB Firstedge" since I jsut bought a Mac. Anyone have any experiences regarding that software, good or bad?
Peter
www.alphalinux.org
I don't get it. You do IT? Did the other business dry up after you did the service for Butters?
May I suggest that when you pick a handle, you be prepared for folks who are more conversant in the source material than yourself? Specifically, check information on episode 616. Removing your head from your ass, finding information that is readily available, and apologizing for being a dipshit will go a long way towards helping you in life. Do you speak without thinking with your clients?
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
It's not enough to complain amongst ourselves about this -- we need to tell the vendor we're p**ed off at them to their face.
" AOL doesn't want to be another normal ISP. They don't want to provide you with straight dialup. That's not their business plan. They don't follow the standards, because they don't want to be a commodity service. They want a differentiated service. A lot of people use AOL specifically because once you get the CD, it's easy to install, and it has a good user experience. It's much simpiler then configuring the various pieces of software that you might want. It gives them something to compete on besides just price. If all you want is lowcost dialup, go someplace else, AOL isn't what you are looking for.
They want to make accessing their service, easy, simple, fun, and unique. Anybody can do straight dialup, what AOL provides is much harder to do. Not that I want it, but it is harder. "
Well speaking as a former AOLer. None of those qualities are unique to AOL (MSN), and standards could give all that " easy, simple, fun, and unique."[1] and more. It's all in the pre-setup work that an ISP/Content provider does. Just like the difference betwee OEM computers, and ones you build yourself. The ONLY purpose of not following the standards is lock-in. Just like in the AOL, and OEM computer example.
[1] Content for exclusive customers is nothing new to AOL. Compuserve, Prodigy, etc did this as well as modern day MSN. There are even ISP's that provide services that's only accessable to their customers.i.e Game servers,File repositories.Chat rooms. The latter even do it using standards.
As the CTO of a mid-sized accounting firm, I can let you know there really is no open source solution - and most of the commercial solutions are pretty lacking themselves. The main question you really need to ask yourself is what specific needs do you have, how important to you are they, and how much value they will provide.
What specifically are you looking for? If its a time and billing solution there are some choices that I'm sure others have opinions about that might be suitable. But if your looking for a more advanced system - one that handles tax processing and time and billing and does this for multiple clients (i.e. handling the T&B for several individual seperate buisnesses and all of their tax liabilities), your pretty much SOL if you want an OSS. The main reason for this isn't the creation of a database and then publishing it as open source, the problem is maintaining it with respect to changes in tax law. Changes that happen continually at the international, federal, state, and local levels. If you've got a client base spread accross 8 countries and 44 states, this becomes a significant problem in that you just cannot write the code once and plug and chug from there, the code itself has to continually be changed to fit the current legal environment.
I myself experiemented with the idea of producing our own system in-house to solve this problem, and began searching for possible open source solutions. It is an impossibility. Realistically, a truely robust accounting system requires that you have 1) a group dedicated to doing nothing but keeping up with the constantly changing tax laws of basically EVERYWHERE, be it a change in the Fed, a change in tax law in the state of Mississippi, or a change in the tax law of any local city that your clients may be located within. Now that you've got a group (or realistically, a person) doing this, they then have to pass on all changes that need to be made to a programmer - yes, you have to keep a programmer on staff at all times just to continually update the system with the law, and then if you really have any common sense, you have to then send through quality control. Open source just cannot accomplish this for you, and anyone who would do this continually open source is either a fool with no money or someone paid by a government. I have yet to encounter either.
When you run the numbers its actually just more cost effective to outsource the solution. We spend ~$10k US annually to have a complete system provided for us that updates as often as a few times a week, a whole lot more cost effective than maintaining the staff necessary to do this otherwise.
The QuickTax software for Canada has a serious bug in calculating one of the forms and you can't correct it and still "netfile" it.
(For people wondering what the error is, it has something to do with getting the wrong figures for moving expense deductions.)
So naturally when my parents get audited, they now owe an additional 800+ dollars because the software messed up.
MYOB has some nice accounting software, with a few different versions for different requirements. It runs on Windows and Mac, and has localised versions depending on country.
http://www.myob.com/
I was busy earning some of that money that gets put in my spreadsheet. When you are out of highschool and mom cuts off your allowance, you'll understand about "work". Until then, catch episodes as they air Wed night at 10:00pm sharp and type up little reviews just for me.
I work for a large software company and we had a similar discussion about removal of functionality. Given the discussion we had, I think that you might very well have grounds for a class action suit, regardless of the EULAs you agreed to. I'd look INTU IT (ha ha), if I were you.
That is all.
High school? Whatever. I've got grown up responsibilities that would make you wake up screaming you thin skinned pissant.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
1. Have you contacted Intuit about this? What was their response? Certainly you're not the only one who has noticed this change...what's the buzz in the QB community?
2. Change. Use Peachtree (I've had it for years, works great) Like Linux? Use VMware.
You could always use snail mail to send out your invoices. Incidentally, I use QB 2002 to run my business and have not seen a message such as you described. The only time anything remotely similar has come up is when accidentally clicking on premium features (like do a credit check or bank online).
Your familiarity with the methods to torture adolescents make me question if you aren't the one still in High School. I was hoping that you could have at least come up with a reasonable burn or changed tactics to deal with someone of legal drinking age or higher. But you haven't. You bore me. Go away.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
MYOB is great accounting software and runs on Windows or Mac
http://www.myob.com/us/
"never met a Microsoft zealot"
Talk with us. Share with us. Did a spam e-mail not deliver on a promise to increase the size of your little "member"? Did the photo of me and your girlfriend, in her locker, tear at a tender heart? Did the fact that you went to school on a short yellow bus confuse your simple mind? Don't fear. Tell me how I, a total stranger - nay - mere words on a chat room page, can "Go away." and you shall triumph over your fears. Everyone marvels at your strength! How brave and brazen of you to scold the great Eric_Cartman_South_P. The girls will scream your name! Your parents will finally love you! All is well in the little bubble of the nexus you call your world! I cowar and hide and pray - oh pray - that my humble firewall protects me from your wrath.
:)
You're the only one here who looks pathetic and stupid.
If you had only had the grace to respond to respond like an adult to the correction gmhowell made after your original stupid flame, you could have come out smelling like a rose. As it is, you're just another (apparently adolescent) loser.
I hope you get modded down into the depths of hell so that you'll give up posting with a reference that you insult people for knowing about.
(Posting AC since I have no desire to know if/how you respond to this or to be part of your next flame war)
I am not so sure.
There is a revolution going on. Mostof it has to do with aspects of OSS. But not in exactly the same way. OSS (Open Source Software) in context of a company and a busines process, internal to that companies operations and business goals.
With the kinds of things Java can do, in the development process, alot of companies are outsourcing the development of key systems, paying more for them upfront for development, but even though the pricetag is much higher in the long run it is cheaper:
1) The company, in your case, builds its own accounting system.
YOU own the accounting system.
2) IDE tools such as Idea's Intellij, provide means to build Java code at a very fast pace. Java in and of itself, isn't what makes things go fast, it is the tools and the technology (OOD) that allows the software to be built rather quickly.
Couple this with computers that keep getting enourmously more powerful year after year, companies are putting together even more toolsets for programmers to boost thier individuals capabilities and manage the "Holy Grail" of Software Engineering at the moment. ReUse and Patterns...undoubtedly, the next generation IDE's will be able to address those issues even more and put computer hardware advances in speed to even better use.
3) YOU control when the software needs more features.
That is, you upgrade and put the money into the software when someone in accounting says: "What if we combined payroll with the taxes section, perhaps we could build a credit system with a bank and Eletronically forward the funds ourselves...instead of having XXXX Payroll outsource company do it?
4) YOU control when the expenditures should be put into your budget for next year, for more features.
How much capability is also an important question when you want to figure out how much
5) YOU own something your competitors can't buy, because this software investment is part of your business process. For example, anyone can go buy Quicken, and try and get it to fit your business.
Your competitors WILL in fact do that, but YOU have something that fits your business EXACTLY and can change as your busiones changes as fast as your business ROI that YOU determine is acceptable.
I think this is becomming more common than most people think. I know, because my company is an expert at analyzing huge software systems, such as SAP, PeopleSoft and other Enterprise Resource Planning packages, and determinng, what would be better?
Spending $80 dollars an hour for 4 programmers and one project manager, or spending 20 MILLION on a software package and consultants to customize it at $180-$250 an hour?
In a great many cases, it isn't worth spending that much money on these large ERP systems, when technology, specifically Java development environments can produce a custom package for your company at half the cost of rolling your own. (i.e. 20 Million for SAP or 10 Million for your own package....)
I think this is the biggest threat to Shrink wrap software. Programming environments are becomming so powerful, because ever more powerful machine hardware is providing the programmer with productivity gains and toolsets (IDE's source debuggers Refactoring tools, access to code library systems such as cvs) that allow him to do the work of 5 programmers.
Compare that even 5 years ago when such things were not inetgrated as they are today.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
dude, you're fucking named after a south park character. if you're so busy working, buy a fucking tivo and watch south park in 20 minutes, and don't be surprised when people make south park references to a total douchebag named Eric Cartman.
I know from some other software package (cannot remember which) that asked if there was an internet connection during installation. If it was told there was not, it would not even ask for online registration.
I suggest you try the same for quickbooks. Try downloading your updates as files or let them send you an update CD. Simply claim you do not have internet connectivity.
The only drawback I can think of is, that you have to send email using another program instead of sending it from quickbooks directly.
Next weekend I am going to get it up and running for a business I am planning on starting the first of the year. I was just wondering about any firsthand experince? Thanks!
http://quickbooks.intuit.com/qbcom/jhtml/feedback. jhtml?priorityCode=0273400000&cr=1
I'll be honest this shit about Intuit worries me. I started a new business earlier this year and bought QB 2002 having heard a lot of good things about it, and not knowing of any really good OSS replacements that didn't require an Oracle license(hurry up and support Postgres, Compiere!). :)
Now the more I read the more convinced I am that I have made a bad decision.
Still, I have only had 18 customers so far so it won't be such a massive hassle to switch over to something else
In the mean time Intuit, along with Microsoft are helping me to see the wisdom in Richard Stallman's message.
Economic Left/Right: -0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69
What the fsck is wrong with people?
So this guy uses a piece of software for free. Good for him. Some day the publisher decides that they want to require payment for the service in the future - and they make him aware of this fact in advance.
And the first thing that pops up in this guys head is a lawsuit ?!!?
How about Intuit suing him for stupidity?
I mean, it's not like they ever promised him that they would make their services available to him for free, in all eternity...
Especially I find it amusing, that he wants a free software alternative - and would be willing to accept one that had basically so poor functionality that he could sue Intuit because of the conversion costs (from migrating from their free-as-in-beer services to some under-developed free-as-in-speech tool).
Like, "an alternative that is so crippled that I can't do business is ok, because I'll just move my business to lawsuits instead of doing productive work then".
And people wonder why the economy is going to hell... Sheesh...
If my experience is any indication, the company has been pulling such sleazy "forced upgrade" tactics for awhile. A few years back I bought Quicken 97 to balance my checking account. It worked fine up until earlier this year, when I wiped the hard drive and reinstalled the OS and had tor install the Quicken as well.
For the installation, I had to (re)register the product electronically. Trouble is, Intuit had long since cut off its end of the registration process for the '97, and , as a way of user support in the FAQ, mentioned only that users should upgrade (i.e. buy the new version).
Bloody hell. I spent $80 for the damn software, I have no use for the additional bells and whistles and it really pisses me off I can longer use this software that I purchased! I went back to using plain spreadsheets and I can gaurantee that under no circumstances will I ever purchase some product by this company. Greedy fucks.
Without encrypting the invoices? I'm glad you lost the functionality fuck face.
That reminds me of a slightly off-topic situation. What the heck happened to Counter-Strike and Half-Life updates?? It seems like the only place they want to let you get them is through that awful fileplanet.com service which is ALWAYS backlogged for hours unless you pay their monthly fees to get on their member servers. What happened to good old mirrors? The pain in downloading the latest updates is what has stopped me from finally playing Counter-Strike the last few months.
There is a simple workaround for this:
Print your invoices to a file (PS - not sure if it supports PDF, otherwise use ps2pdf) and email/fax it to your customers.
Yup it's a pain, but it works. Thats what I do.
J
I am actually in the process of writing a self-contained webserver based on the TclHttpd using the SQLite embedded database. The plan is to run the server on the individuals computer, and have them open a browser connection to localhost.
The TCL Web server can also load specialized modules for printing forms, and also access the local file system to syncronize data, poke through the registry etc. Charts and graphics could be handled by rendering GIF files.
The really nice part about this setup is that a small office can all access the books. With a forms-based accounting system, you SO will be up and running in no time flat.
Anyone in?
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
> GNUcash is foul. It reeks. It would be a bad piece
> of software even in the windows world.
Thanks for the informative comments. Would you like to post something more useful than "it stinks"?
You are a dumb motherfucker. To wit, extremely fucking gauche assclown. Not only do you piss an moan, you get upset like a little bitch. What kind of stupid cocksucker picks a South Park name, and can't handle any reference to South Park: apparently, you.
Amusing as you little exchange was... hehe.. Surely he has a point when using Eric cartman as a nick, you should at least not flame him in regards to your ignorance on the subject. Granted, missing Southpark is neither life threatening nor makes you inferior, but at least be careful before throwing around remarks about someone being racist, and then continuing to wind them up. I can see how much fun you are having - but let it go. You are just making yourself look silly... Saying that, where would my dreary monday afternoon be without some comedian on slashdot....
OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
What I haven't seen people mention is that Quickbooks is a spyware piece of crap. Install a software firewall that blocks outbound access and you'll see what I mean. It's harder to stop it from calling home using deeply buried options than it is to stop Real Player. (And that's saying something!)
Write your reps in Congress.
Request flat taxes. Chop the tax code down from a library to one page.
Read his journal, then understand that if you were in his shoes, you'd piss your pants, and ask to stop the earth, cause you'd want to get off.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
This appears to be a Windows-only package.
This just might go up on the lynx hall of shame as it comes up totally blank.
Learn how to use HTML.
PLease.
Commercial and Free:
L4SB July 2002 table
my pragmatic collection of free (and non-free, but getting away from it as much as possible) software for Windows: http://www.thegoldenear.connectfree.co.uk/gg/toolb ox/win32/the-software.htm
Intuit is becoming harder and harder to deal with. They recently changed to a license authentication scheme with TurboTax that attempts of enforce one non-transferrable license per machine. They'll sell you TurboTax now but if you upgrade your PC at Christmas time and re-install, you must pay full price for another license before they will authenticate you on the new machine. Perhaps anticipating the wave of customer complaints, Intuit has stopped answering their phones with humans. You now get a recording directing you to their web site. As soon as I find a viable alternative, I'm dumping Quicken and TurboTax. It's not worth the hassle.
Here's how to find/crack them for any app: works well to get rid of the nag screen asking you to register before your 25 uses are up...
- Copy your two registry files to a linux partition
- Install the application
- Copy the new registry files to a linux partition
- Do a diff on the two sets of registry files
- Run the app once, copy the new registry files to a linux partition
- Write a small Windows app that sets the keys to the value they were after one run, then launches the real app.
You'll never have to register, which is great if you don't want to give them access to your box.I did this for a friend of mine, copied the whole Windows partition (dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/xfer/part1_image_xyz) to linux just to make sure there were no other files hanging around.
Should work for games, etc, as well
Now, before I get flamed for this, he owned a legit copy (original CD, manuals, etc.) but didn't like the idea of sharing his stuff w. Intuit.
In hindsight, looks like he was right
Sorry.
yahoo pdf rpm linux
search
profit!!!!!
yahoo
make pdf linux
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profit!!!
basically it comes down to saving the document as a PS file and then converting that PS file using ps2pdf into a pdf.
No more iNtuit crap.
Why dont you just uninstall the version you have right now, delete all the files, (keep your data files of course)... and then just re-install from the original cd? This way you get back to the way you had it before the update. Then simply just dont update the software again, as it sounded like you were only updating because you knew you could, not because something was not functioning properly.....
This is nothing new. All versions of QuickBooks that can send statements use Intuit's Servers. The only difference is that before it connected anonymously and now it connects as you. However, there isn't any record of what you send kept by Intuit. They simply use thier email servers rather than your own so that they can offer the deluxe features such as delivery notification and automatic payment reminders. Lighten up. If you want to send through your own server just use the SDK, create your own XSL style sheet, update this manually every time you change your template, maintain all the code yourself and quit yer bitchin'.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
"Ok, let me just run home and fire up the computer to print this check and I'll be right back."
An outfit so small and so poor that it *needs* to run free Visicalc on an old 8088 doesn't print checks, it writes them just like most of the world does. It doesn't have very many to write either. Maybe a half dozen a month if it's unlucky.
In my last retail business (3000 square foot store) I wrote three checks a month. That's all. At that "volume" hand writing them is quicker, easier and cheaper.
Honestly, you realize hundreds of billions of dollars have been transacted perfectly well with no more "technology" then pen and ink don't you? I have a physical handicap that makes writing a difficulty and it's *still* easier to hand write small volumes of checks than print them.
When an person/outfit gets big enough that the printing volume gets large enough that there is *benifit* to printing checks and forms then they use their office suite to print them, as I already suggested. Document processors are just that, not just overbloated $400 post-it note writers. If it comes to that I first started printing checks and forms on an 8088 running Microsoft Works 1.0.
It seems easy to forget that just because new ways of doing things come up that the old ways still work just fine, and in certain situations, for certain people, are even *better* than the new ways.
The right tool for the right job, and the size of the job helps determine the right tool.
Honestly, relying on a program like Quickbooks to write a half dozen checks a month, one W2 * a year* and keep a daily transaction ledger is just plain doofey.
To equate a spreadsheet with programing and IT as some above have done is even doofier. Spreadsheets are an office app, just like a WP. Spreadsheets have been traditionally hated by the IT deparment because they were the app that took computing *OUT* of the IP department and put it on a PC on every businessman's own desk.
Accounting apps are there to save time and money. If they do neither they are less than worthless. They are NOT supposed to replace understanding of what's going on with your money. If you *can't* balance a checkbook because * you don't understand* the process perhaps business is not the best place for you.
If you *do* understand the process whipping up a checkbook balancer in a spreadsheet is barely the work of minutes. A simple, single entry, bookkeeping system is hardly the work of more minutes, even if you've never used a spreadsheet before. Double entry will take a bit longer, but then I've refered the reader to a work that lays it all out for them. All they have to do is type it in.
An office suite, ( which, again, isn't IT, it's a collection of apps for *office workers*) does everything Quickbooks does, and more (without phoning home). That's why MS was late to the "Financial management package" party. It never occured to them that anyone would want such a thing because * they had already provided one,* complete with instructions on how to use it as such.
It's called MS Office.
KOffice works just as well. Open Office works even better.
What the hell do you think is really going on behind the scenes in Quickbooks, behind all the pretty graphics and doofey interface? It's just a *crippled* office suite.
Cripple your own.
KFG
I have been meaning to set this up and try it for some time now. It's a complete ledger system with PDF printing and runs from a web server. I belive it's PHP based. Check it out at
http://www.sql-ledger.com/
But that would rely on programing. The spreadsheet solution requires no programing knowledge ( despite what some of the trollier replys to my post have implied. A spreadsheet is a businessman's app, not a programing enviroment. If you can't figure out what a spreadsheet is and how to work one within a few minutes you have no business in business).
Under certain circumstances, for certain people, your solution is superiour.
With this caveat I suppose. *I* would never do it quite that way. In any business of mine no accounting data ever goes on the net. Ever. The accounting dept. is stand alone. The idea that in my small office all can access the books gives me the willies. *I* can access the books. My *bookeeper* ( should I even have one at the time) can access the books. That's it. A few times a year an accountant will be given temporary access.
It can be inconvienient at times, but nowhere near so inconvienient as having the SEC digging through your computers caches and coming up with all sorts of juicey little tidbits. God forbid that any internal finacial data should ever be transmited across the Internet. Then they don't even have to dig around in *your* caches.
In the old days of paper and pencil the bookeeper was the first employee to get their own office. The office contained a safe. Not for the money. for the *books.*
Grandma knew something about sucking eggs that the "chillen's" haven't figured out yet.
KFG
I've written about it several times. Again, a little research would do wonders. Things are a bit better today (this having been written ~six months ago).
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
In the sense you mean they only deal with high level tax issues, and as has already been noted elsewhere the IRS itself will provide you with all the relevant computer data and programing you need.
What's more, the laws change every time a legislative body goes into session.
Quickbooks is no replacement for a good accountant and lawyer.
It is the businessman's responsibility to know and understand all laws applicable to his business. Relying on software to *understand* it for you is folly that can only lead to eventual disaster. That people do so I actually find shocking. Don't end up being like the girl refered to in a post a couple of days ago who insisted her physics paper claiming that electrons go 6 times the speed of light was correct because it was the answer her computer gave her. The IRS won't buy that line any more than the physics professor did.
You are right. The laws can be so arcane that *noone* understands them, not even the people who wrote them.
That includes the people who wrote Quickbooks. Garbage in, Garbage out.
Do your own homework. Know your own business. It's cheaper - and safer. It takes more time. If you went into business to have more time - boy did you make a mistake! As I like to say to people, the greatest thing about being in business for yourself is that you get to chose your working hours - all 100 a week of them.
As well as handling your own finacial and legal matters at a low level other matters you should be prepared to take care of personally as the new CEO of your own startup firm include:
Cleaning and unclogging toilets, shoveling walks, taking out garbage, chasing racoons out of the vents and wall spaces ( Yes, I've actually had to do this), washing floors, cleaning carpets, being the LAST person in the business with a nice desk and the last person in the firm to *make any money.*
If you aren't fully prepared to be personally responsible for all of the above, even if you have millions in start up capital from somewhere, get an hourly job. You'll be happier.
KFG
I was busy earning some of that money that gets put in my spreadsheet. When you are out of high school and mom cuts off your allowance, you'll understand about "work".
Straight up, you're an idiot. You're an idiot for having a Cartman UID and accusing someone of being a racist for making a South Park joke. If you're that sensitive, maybe you should stick to the Powerpuff Girls.
You're an idiot for making the assumption that GMHowell is in high school and he doesn't know "work." Try thinking (and maybe reading) before you type a response, you f$#%ing moron.
And thank you for the "tip" on spreadsheets. Wow. Can you get me a good deal on Quattro Pro? Do you think AOL is a good ISP for a small business? 'Cause that would just be "da bomb."
Man, you know all the c00l, l33t, h@x@rs lingo! You're my new h@x@r h3r0!
At $1,200 per diem fee and a booked calander, it's a fun way to be a geek. Using things I learn on slashdot is good money making FUN.
By the way, the correct spelling is: c-a-l-e-n-d-a-r and Slashdot is capitalized. Thanks for playing...
Fact is, SOMETHING in your life is so bad, it would, as you said, make me wake up at night screaming.
No, it would probably make you kill your own damn self. You don't have the strength to persevere through what he deals with. Your little life has desperation caused from unemployement? I hope your mother/father/sister/daughter/son dies so you can understand anguish.
If you had on iota of a clue, you'd realize when you are wrong and gracefully back away. It must suck to realize you have no ground to stand on, yet flap your arms to try from falling.
Here's a little piece of advice: Learn and grow old, admit defeat and idiocy in the same apology, and avoid such situations in the past.
I have more respect for gmhowells shit than your brains.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
I think it should be abundantly clear by now that you're an idiot and flat out wrong.
The only thing you should be typing is an apology to GMHowell.
However, SURELY you must understand that a little flame war, over a topic of misunderstanding (I missed that SP episode) held on a message board, at 2:00am, is *nothing* personal. Just plain fun, albeit at the cost of Karma, which thankfully keeps most flames (such as ours) tucked away.
I can let bygones be bygones. What's the point in Karma: Excellent if you can't flush some down the toilet once in a while? I reserve my foes list for PWP'ers and crapflooder's anyway;)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I did tech support for Intuit back in college, but the last version that I supported was 2k. This may not apply to 2001, but here's what I'd do: make sure you have a backup(you should have several anyway) or copy of your data and have install keys written down (not just the ones you entered from the package, but the registration key as well). Then uninstall the program and remove the remaining stuff since it stores the updates that have been done. Reinstall and update up to the last version you had (last I saw of it, they had standalone EXE updates for the patches but they tried not to let you know. They could be found on the web site with a lot of searching, but the techs wouldn't tell you unless you couldn't update any other way. This is probably the only way to get the previous update). Then restore your data file. (if the latest version updated your data file, restore the backup you made before updating your data file). You should hopefully be able to get tax table updates manually as well so you can do payroll without auto-updating. Again, this is based on my knowledge of the previous year's product, so who knows if they've made things more complicated.
Other than that, maybe if you make a case to a tech that you can't legally use their servers (or something) they'll be able to tell you if there's really a way around the mandatory membership. If you're nice but insistent sometimes the techs can help you out more, but I know I was less responsive to people who were screaming at me for things I wasn't responsible for. (and of course it depends on who you get... but call soon before tax rush = 2 hour hold time)
As a last note, I'm not sure if it's leagal to agree to future undisclosed fees. More likely, you have the option to go without the ability to email invoices when they start charging. Still lame.
I didn't take it too literally, fscktard. Learn how to communicate.
I communicate perfectly clearly (and am a published author). That you are too stupid to be able to extrapolate from an example is not my fault.
But since you insist on making an ass of yourself (and because you pissed me off), I'll lend a hand. You wrote:
"Absolutely wrong. AOL users are people who don't want to buy/install/manage spam filtering software."
That's utter bullshit and here's proof:
From http://www.emailspamblocker.com/: "Email Spam Blocker for America Online AOL(TM) 7.0 - 8.0"
Go to http://www.antispam-software.net/products.htm and you will see SPAM INSPECTOR for America Online 7.0
From the Mailwasher homepage: "AOL support coming later."
Happy now, asshole?
If you really are as stupid as you seem, I can see why you post anonymously.
thank you for pointing this out. I placed a disclaimer on the page sending people to get flash, so lynx folks will understand why they're not seeing much.
Meanwhile, Wacky Neighbor looks just fine in lynx, by design. And I am perfectly capable of using html.
You might get farther in life with a different personality.
I was talking to the case at hand, the small outfit running old hardware and software from financial distress.
:)
Having outgrown that phase I thought I was through with all that, but divorce has proven me wrong and it looks like I'll have to go through it again.
Ok, I'm exagerating. I got left with my personally assembled Athlon 900. As far as computing goes I'm good to go with a start over from scratch one man operation.
No, there is no such available add-in that I'm aware of. Most of the pieces are out there, but you'll have to track them down and assemble them yourself, and of course take the time to debug. Frankly right now it's probably quicker to do it from scratch than find the templates on the web.
Personally I've never let a seceratary near a spreadsheet, or write checks. My bookeepers need no training in them. Invoices are handled through the word processor, which I've never had anyone kick up a fuss over either. For a while I used StarOffice 5.2 on Linux and people in the office didn't even know they weren't using a Windows theme. That was the one great thing about the otherwise stupid desktop interface. Maybe I've just had better luck with employees.
Or maybe it's because they've actually seen me take off my tie and unstop and clean a clogged toilet myself when they were doing more valuable work that makes them more willing to go with the flow. I don't know. When I tell *my* employees they're going to train in new software they generally respond, " Cool, that makes me more marketable at your expense." Some employers might rail at this. I love it. As the boss I've never figured out why I should balk at training my people in getting things done the way *I* think is right. I consider it time and money very well spent and I prefer sharp people working for me, even if it *isn't* always to my advantage. I'm smart. Dull people bore me. I don't like my working enviroment to bore me. Want a job with me? Come to the interview with copy of Brave New World under one arm and Euripides - in Greek, under the other. Then be prepared to work as hard as I pay you, and I won't expect you to work any harder.
I make money to buy things I want. Period. I want my business the way I want it. I spend money on it. I rarely do so foolishly.
Except I did buy Quickbooks. That was foolish. I already had MS Office and Star Office. I already knew accounting. My bookeepers already knew accounting. My Front Office people already knew word processing. Piece of cake. I've never been big enough that *I* wasn't the "personel dept." and I never want to be.
Look, there is no "perfect" solution. Quickbooks is just more imperfect that any homegrown solution I've found and with homegrown, Open Source, I'm beholden to nobody. Every penny you spend training your people with Open Office goes into *your people's* skill set. Not Microsoft's or Intuit's coffers. With that comes having to take the time and responsiblility to develop it personally. If I shied from personal responsibility I wouldn't be in business in first place and the bloody janitor would unclog the toilet, it wouldn't be my job.
Maybe I should take on the task of writing up some generic "Quickbooks" Office Suite based workalike and release it open source. I don't know if I'm the right man for the job though. It always comes down to something like " How the hell do *I* know what you want your invoices to look like? *YOU* know. You have the tools, use them."
Just the way I'm made up I guess. I guess that's why I'm in business. I like to do things for myself.
KFG
(My wife is an accountant, thus I do a lot of side job tech support stuff for accountants.) I have learned: Quicken sucks. Accountants hate it, it's the #1 choice of idiots and morons worldwide. Just like: AOL + idiot, Quickbooks = idiot. I have never met or supported any accounting firms that use any quicken products other than to convert data to a peachtree readable format. (or some other format) Quickbooks is a personal finance package that tried to turn itself into a professional solution. Peachtree is a more useable package. It's not "good" but is definitely better than quickbooks. Peachtree was designed as a professional package.
-Jay
Ed Foster covers this too, a bit. I think he mentioned it more than once in his column, The Gripe Line on InfoWorld. Here is the one I found: Cost of 'free' service. Poke back through the archives for more...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'd like to respond to your comment point by point:
1)By creating the system, you own it.
Yes, this is true. And when your clients get audited and there is an error in the code that calculated something wrong because you haven't done proper QA, well you are at fault. Whereas if you use an outsourced solution that the IRS itself says is the best, well then, if a coding problem occurs, YOU AREN'T LIABALE - the company that provided the solution is. Its all about covering your ass.
I'm skipping point 2 as I have no comment and jumping straight to:
3)You control when the software needs new features.
Guess what? I still do. I'm not buying an off-the-shelf solution to my problem, because my specific problem is not off the shelf. As such, if I have a need, the specific outsource I have will customize to my needs at my schedule. I've never had a feature request take longer than 1 week to get implemented - can you say the same for in house solutions?
I think I've addressed #4 with the previous.
5)Well, all of my competitors are using equal solutions. If they were to do it in-house they would have to incur the related erroneous expense needlessly. I don't feel any worry about them spending more to do the same thing in-house.
The problem is that this is code that must be re-written on a daily basis in peak times and the open source community just doesn't have any real interest in tax law.
first - i agree with your assessment of this tool.
second - i do like the power puff girls. if people like this guy are watching it, i'm sure they're not getting most of the jokes.
you probably shouldn't have read this.
...you mess with all of us. next time you should check the friend/foe list to see what you're getting into.
you probably shouldn't have read this.
Here's just a short update.
1. I solved the problem by using an old OpenOffice form letter I built a while back, that includes a short spreadsheet that does the job. I copied the data into it and saved it in Word format (the client only uses MS). Problem solved, for now.
2. I went to Quickbooks.com and used their feedback form to send them a major flame. I mentioned the terms "Class Action", if you get my drift. Interestingly enough, while I was out today I got a call from an actual QB employee, to discuss the problem. He said he'd try again later but hasn't so far.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
I think there is a reason the wife doesn't let me balance the checkbook.
I tend to forget that can does not imply ought.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming