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Buying a Small, Light Linux Notebook Computer?
"I have no Windows software and will not be running any, not even via WINE. I have no
desire to go through the hassle of purchasing software I'm not going to use and
then fighting to get a token rebate that doesn't actually equate to the cost of a Windows license. Nor am I interested in buying a machine that was purchased with a Windows license, and simply having Windows erased with no refund given.
So far I've found iDot Computers, who will sell laptops with no OS installed. Unfortunately, their lightest,
smallest offering is a hefty 2.8kg brick, 3cm bigger than the iBook in width and depth. What I really want is something comparable to a Toshiba Libretto or Sony VAIO R505--except that neither of those companies want to sell me a machine without Windows.
I'm sure plenty of Slashdot readers have faced the same problem--what's the solution?"
Always this emphasis on performance...
a Jedi craves not these things, only affordability.
I know there is a Windows refund site somewhere, as long as you never click okay to a EULA you can get some money back...
http://emperorlinux.com/
... I say you just buy the machine you want. Don't want windows? Throw the disc out ... you want a computer right? Don't turn everything into a political statement.
The benefit? You get laptops with full knowledge of exactly what does and what doesn't work under linux.
The catch? You pay the same (or more) as you would in the high street and don't get the shiny Windows CD.
Frankly
Slashdot? Oh, I just read it for the articles.
Small, lightweight, runs Unix, nice GUI, long battery life, etc...
I'm in a similar situation, only I've never owned a Mac. Anyway, I think I've decided upon buying a 12" powerbook (and yes, I read the reviews of them). Not sure if that's too rich for your blood but it sounds like a good deal to me.
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
that's what I did. it did come with win98, but I deleted it right off.
just be careful when buying used- I made the mistake of buying from a tradeshow and it took 2 months before I could get a usable one.
I did end up with a gateway solo2150 which is working pretty well.
if you're not playing games, a 600 mhz will work fine. I have kde 3.1 and openoffice on debian and it runs with little lag.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
www.powernotebooks.com
windows tax not required. was in a slashdot article awhile back.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I too havent found the right solution yet where i dont have to give some company money for crap i will never use. just please dont get pissed off and buy any laptop and pay the microsoft tax, becouse it just reports to there numbers as how many "users" there are. untill i find a solution that i can live with, and not pay MORE for the luxary of not having to purchase an operating system, i will not purchase a laptop. i am not afraid of doing without, and neither should you.
These are great cursoe based laptops and becides the software based modem everything is linux compatible.
here is a Link to the fujitsu website for it.
i have an older version with a slower 800mhz processor and 4 megs of video ram. it struggles with the latest divx encodes unplugged, but plugged in they display fine. The best feature is its real life 8-10 hour battery life. i could never go back to a 2 hour laptop.
Won't you be my my neighbor?
It's called a power book.
Yao and mini-me use 'em, why can't you?
"Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling...." - Abraham Simpson
aslab
I'm currently buying linux servers from them, but I saw that they also have laptops
Called them today looking at laptops. Told her I did not want to pay for XP , she told me that removing it would void the waranty on the laptop! She suggested that I buy a bigger drive and do a split partion. I was disgusted that I Was going to be charged even more just to run linux. I am not even sure how software can void a hardware warranty. The call ended with them still having a laptop and me still looking.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
Try http://www.powernotebooks.com I bought my laptop from there and am very pleased. I did not buy windows with it because they give you the option. It runs linux great and they have a wide selection to choose from. From light to mobile workstation. Check it out.
Why don't you just buy an iBook. It seems to be your benchmark, so why isn't it suitable? Linux runs quite nicely on it and it has everything you have listed as a requirement.
Am I missing something? It's hard to get a better laptop for the money.
I recently switched to a new 12 inch iBook running yellow dog linux, and I have to say its great. Although it may not be as portable some windows superslims, its battery life, and performance make it a superb choice. Also, i have had zero driver issues with my iBook, which is a lot more than I can say about install redhat on my old thinkpad.
maybe you could find some usful info here too http://www.linux-laptop.net/
The guy who started the whole "windows refund" thing began the discussion right here on slashdot. LinuxMall's windows refund day site is down, but you can still find plenty of good info on Geoffrey's site and in the original slashdot article
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Since you've ruled out the iBook, I'd suggest that you look for a laptop that meets your requirements on the used market (eBay, local want ads, computer resellers, outlets that deal in refurbished and formerly leased equipment). Someone else will have already paid the Windows Tax for you, and the money you save will more than compensate for the time you'll have to spend scraping Windows off the hard drive and installing your operating system of choice.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
I've seen this laptop on half.com, it's one hell of a deal:
P4 2.4Ghz/512mb DR/40GB/DVD/CDRW/USB 2.0/FireWire/56K/LAN/15" TFT for ~1200
No OS, no brand name. I have no idea if they are good are not, but they look decent.
-Jon
this is my sig.
I seriously doubt that those machines are "Microsoft Free": Emperor Linux most likely doesn't have the purchasing power to force Sony and other vendors to sell them machines without Windows licenses. Most likely, all they do is erase the Windows partition for you.
For more information about Linux on laptops, go to the web page about Linux on laptops; help can be found in the Usenet newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc or comp.os.linux.hardware
- Sam
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
i don't know about linux compatibility, but it sounds like in terms of HARDWARE you're looking for something like Fujitsu P-series or so. Fujitsu P-Series page. it doesn't have firewire, but it has everything else you want. here's a page talking about putting linux (debian) on it i think i've seen firewire pcmcia cards, so that might be the solution. I don't know about getting it without windows, but that's the breaks... Like another poster said, not *everything* has to be a political statement. You could just video tape yourself burning or shitting on your windows CD in front of a linux flag or something. ;)
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Be prepared for a lot of sales people to go "Sorry, we cannot allow you to boot that CD".
Kind of ironic that you're not permitted to 'test' the machine you're about to fork out several thousand dollars for.
When I was last searching for a laptop I encountered this brick-wall mentality, consequently I ended up telling them "Oh, in that case, no sale, goodbye" ( Commissions obviously doesn't exist in sales any more ).
As for the reasoning behind the no-fiddle mentality, it's because they're afraid that you'll install some sort of hacker software.
Now this could probably be considered a switch story..but I still use Windows/Linux, so it's more that I have just added one more to the list.
I recently acquired the last model of the PowerBook series. 15"/G4/1G RAM. I must say I am very impressed with the hardware, the size, the layout, etc. I'm still trying to get used to the Operating System.
I do a lot of Java Development, and have gotten my favorite IDE to work (Eclipse), and have gotten JBoss to run semi-succesfully. There are a lot of things to get used to though. The built in mouse has but one button, so you must ctrl->click to do a right click...that is annoying as heck. So, purchase an external mouse whatever you do.
being able to drop to the shell and be in a familiar place is very nice. Install Fink and you can apt-get your favorite software. There are a lot of apps out there...more than I thought there was (www.versiontracker.com).
All in all...I'd say get a PowerBook and leave OS X on it, and install your favorite Open-source software.
If you choose to wipe it clean and install a version of Linux...it is still very impressive hardware, so you should be in a win-win situation.
My two cents...
-= Xafloc =-
alinuxbox.com
N
Neocomputers.com will sell you a custom laptop. You can also purchase it without Windows on it.
Here is a link to the custom laptop page.
Welcome to the land of the free...pay toll ahead...no photography...please open your bag...
> I don't care about screen size so long as it can do 800x600.
800x600? You can't be serious! The high end of 1991? I remember the rollout of 800x600, between VGA and 1024x768. Yes, there was some XGA nonsense in there, but we got to 1K pretty fast, and that's rock bottom ever since.
Look, I'll admit the current pixel dance is sort of goofy, with 2Kx1920 or whatever, but 800x600? A reasonable low end is 1280x1024.
Ob disclosure: my Dell Inspiron 8000 is 1600x1200, and yes those dots get a bit tiny sometimes. But I dig it.
If there's one place where Apple kicks ass (and I'm of the opinion there are more), it's in full-featured notebooks.
Dude! You're getting an Apple!
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
There are also a number of 2-4 pound laptops from Dell, HP, Gateway, etc.; that's what I have right now. They are considerably lighter than the iBooks, have comparable or better battery life, and are much, much faster. They often don't include the CD/DVD in the main laptop, but frankly, I prefer that choice; it's easy to plug a bus-powered CD/DVD into the USB2 or FW port.
You will effectively not find a notebook where you don't pay the Windows tax: the big manufacturers just bundle it that way, and if anything goes wrong with the machine, they will have you run stuff under Windows before even accepting it for warranty return (I have been there). Apple is no better: you can't get their HW without their OS, and they won't even support their laptops connecting to a non-Apple wireless access point.
File down an iBook.
You mean peel an Apple?
Yet another signature that refers to itself. The irony and humor is dead.
Notebooks are different in that they tend to be all-in-one solutions, so they tend to include the OS whether you like it or not.
The only way to assemble one is if there's a commodity hardware standard for notebooks or subnotebooks... but there's little chance of that happening since much of the size advantages of subnotebooks is a result of the tight intergration that an all-in-one solution affords.
So you're pretty much stuck buying something OEM.
Personally I can't see why you shy from an iBook. With an iBook, you're paying for Mac OS X anyways.. Although nothing is stopping you from installing Linux on it- once you give OS X a shot you'll probrobly won't need to.
Ok, so I understand the whole Microsoft Tax idea, but I think the same thing could be said for Apple. Why purchase a Mac just to wipe out the drive and install Linux? The higher cost associated with Macs is partly contributed to Mac OS X. I have an XP box, a Red Hat box, and an iBook so I get my daily dose of multi-OS use, and I can't figure out why anyone would pay more money for an iBook just for the hardware. There are plenty of laptop manufacturers out there that provide just as high quality laptops as Apple. Soooo, back to my point: If you don't plan on using OS X, don't buy a Mac!
than the ibook, though i must say i've carried around my son's ibook, and it feels great sizewise. and, they are pretty darn reasonable now. of course, the advantage of booting into osx for itunes and such makes it an even better buy. the g4 powerbook is larger than some of the supersmall x86 machines, but how many of those have slot loading dvd recorders?
These are a stunning laptop. I love mine. Only criticism is that it gets hot. They're small, light, firewire, 2x USB, DVD burner, good battery life, monitor spanning support, built in ethernet and modem ... the list goes on.
The catch is always software. With Mac OS X, you get great software. Better by far than any Linux configuration on the desktop. Want to burn a CD? Insert the bank CD, drag the files onto it, and then eject it ("do you wish to burn this CD?")
How easy is that? I don't have time to fsck around with cdrecord and mkisofs anymore. I just want to burn a goddamned CD. I just want to connect to a wireless network. I just want to watch a DVD. I just want to fire up emacs and write some code. I don't want to tinker and stuff around all day making things work.
So remember, hardware is half the story. Software is the other. If you can take the mac premium price, you get the best of both worlds.
Ash OS durbatulk, ash OS gimbatul, ash OS thrakatulk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul! Uzg-MS-ishi amal fauthut burgulli.
I bought a Dell Inspiron and finally got a Linux refund($125) but it took me hours on the phone and educating them. Two of my friends have also bought Inspirons lately and got their refunds with less hassle so things seem to be changing. However, when you call Dell the first time you probably still get a confident "no" from several people until you get to the right person -- just call back, talk to someone else, and be persistent until you succeed.
You might contact a Micron PC sales rep and see if they'll provide a laptop with a version of Linux installed. If I remember correctly, I was able to arrange such a deal for a client... I don't see any option on their website so I might just be crazy :)
:) They are as light as 2 lbs, but you'll have to sacrifice a little speed. (2lbs is around 1 kg..)
You might also take a look at Los Alamos Computers. They aren't as light as you want, but they might be an option.
QLI is also an option, but weight is an issue again.
Finally, Emperor Linux has some very light looking machines
Good luck.. I don't have any experience with any of these companies except for Micron PC.. You might do a quick search on google next time...
Here is something odd. As people have been posting links I have been eagerly following them. I am noticing a disturbing trend. Every link has led to a place that had laptops on average $500 to $1000 more than the same laptop from a major vendor with windows on it. I am starting to think that we linux lovers may be taking it up the butt the same way that vegetarians get reamed for "Organic" produce..
See a market , exploit that market and I think we may being exploited here.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
Get an off-lease IBM Thinkpad. I bought a Thinkpad 600x refurbed by IBM, upgraded the hard drive to a 30GB, 5400 rpm IBM HD, and then replaced the stock 650 MHz processor with an 850 MHz. After maxing out the RAM (just over 580MB), this thing cooks!
I keep looking at laptops nowadays, and keeping getting PO'ed at vendors that put a 14" screen in a 15" case. The damn thing looks nice, but is BIG and HEAVY. Then the keyboards on the 12" Sonys looks small. Why don't manufacturers keep making 13" displays???
with an emperor(sp) laptop, you got a windows machine that simply has linux on it now.
In essence, your buying a windows machine. those laptops are all sonys and ibms and such. they bought the laptops, reformated the hard drives, and installed linux.
"Humanize war? You might as talk about humanizing hell!" -- British Admiral Jacky Fisher
I decided against saying something terribly insightful about the "Microsoft Tax".
/. populace will ram shit and vinegar down the throats of the companies that build PC laptops because they preload Windows on them, but it seems fine and dandy to pay for a notebook from another supplier, and get the OS you don't want there either. Why?
I *do* find it F*cking hillarious that you would buy and Apple notebook computer, and load linux onto it, and be just as happy.
OHMYGOD: Apple won't sell a laptop without an OS either. THE BASTARDS!
It's quite odd that the
You feel better about paying the "Apple Tax"?
Now, Merits of Mac OS X aside, if the poster wants *Linux* on the desktop, buying an iBook hardly fixes the problem, as a matter of fact, it does just encourages Apple, 'Cause no-one complains.
In an Ideal world, you could buy that notebook Windows free. Trouble is, welcome to earth. Suppliers like companies that build millions a year vs thousands a year. They get cheaper access to the components to build laptops. Even if you find a distributor that ships and OS-free laptop, the added cost for that distributor to build laptops in small quantity would drive up the price, most likely past the point of buying one with Windows included.
Buy the laptop based on what you want it to have, suck it up and chuck away the Windows or MacOS license. Or resell it on ebay.
Now, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
(One of the main reasons I bought this computer was because the retailer gave me a brochure which listed Linux as a supported operating system. At the very least, this allows you to take it back if Linux doesn't go)
Linux runs well on it, after a bit of a play with the drivers (support from the company hasn't been great, but it's easy enough to get everything working). It's a P4 1.7GHz (1.2 on batteries), VGA & SVideo out, a firewire port, 14.1" screen at 1024x768, 3 USB2.0 ports, CDR/DVD drive, onboard ethernet & modem, 1 PCMCIA slot and optional internal 802.11b. It's small, light, and it looks cool.
Best of all, it was one of the cheapest Notebooks I was looking at, $2800 AUD :)
Folks, Adelaide is a city with a "small town"
;-)
mindset... you know the one: "everybody knows
everybody"
I'd bet that G's dad's Cisco connections did
more to get G the cheque from Toshiba than
anything else, even if the dad in question
didn't have to lift a finger to make it happen.
I don't think that the not-so-well-connected
(read: needy, eg, student of Linux) computer
buyer would get the same hearing - let alone
a similar refund.
To test this: How many -other- Australians
managed to win similar refunds, at about the
same time (ie, even -after- G's [uncashed]
refund cheque was photographed & published
online)?
Not too many...
"Plenty of good info"...? Doubtful at best.
How good depends on how many, who do similar
footwork, will -ever- get -their- refunds,
in future.
Good means effective, not just -apparently- so.
Now, if someone had complained (eg to Oz's
ACCC), eg that vendor(s) were requiring them
to buy unwanted product/license/software from
another source, ie just to get the chance to
buy the computer they wanted to purchase...
-that- might have got a refund-right for every
Linux user.
But, no, that wasn't how G did it... He stopped
when he could show (without cashing) the photo
of his refund check... let the others do their
own haggling...
Read: Re-Invent the refund [paper-chase] wheel!
Result: -Lots- have visited the online photo
of the uncashed check but -few- have
got a refund of their own.
Com'on people, the only way to change this
is to work a bit smarter... & together... ie,
if you want to win, not just cheer-lead...
It's been said, but not like this.
Look, what you really want is a PowerBook. You know it, everyone here knows it. You just won't admit it.
So let's compare features. The Apple certainly has no potential whatsoever of running Microsoft Windows except through some complete emulation/virtualization software. Score one for Apple. The Apple comes with an actual GUI far superior to Microsoft Windows (not even a contest) and much more polished than your typical UNIX GUI. Score another (or a couple) for Apple.
Want more? Well, your Mac is actually capable of running Microsoft Office should you later find yourself in a bind and be REQUIRED to deal with it to put food on the table. On the plus side, you can always pirate it and you don't need Windows or Windows emulation software to run it. That's worth about a half a point (MS Office isn't that great in my book). Your Mac will also be able to run just about any open source program you want. Furthermore, Apple has now even decided to provide an official version of X11 which they have even extended to allow full access to the OpenGL extensions. That means that you can create "lickable" GUIs using the X Window System.
But even if you don't want to run Mac OS X (and trust me, you will), you can always run Linux on it. There are several very good quality PowerPC distros available. Furthermore, even if you go this route, it still doesn't preclude you from running MacOS X (or 7 8 or 9 for that matter) using the mac on linux software.
And on top of all of that you'll be supporting a company who actually understands that it is customers that drive the bottom line; a company that creates GUIs that even your mom can understand, GUIs that actually make sense and help you get on with what you are trying to do-- especially if you are a hard-core geek.
So please at least consider the Powerbook. It's a sleek machine, it's extremely solidly built (well, the 12" model I hear leaves something to be desired, but the rest are excellent). It comes with a good OS. You can run Linux on it. And you're not supporting a company that supports Microsoft. In fact, you are supporting a company that actually competes with Microsoft (on some small level). A company whose CEO made a little deal with Microsoft and got a lot of gain for very little (putting MS IE in as the default browser, BFD).
In short: you know you want it dude!
Am I the only one so far that has caught this paradox?
Basically this guy says he wants everything in a 12" PowerBook G4 but says he wants an IA-32 architecture notebook because he hears PCs perform better, then goes on to say performance doesn't matter.
I'd look at how a PowerBook performs compared to a mobile version of an IA-32 processor. Not how a Mac and a PC compare in desktops, especially since you're going to be running Linux, which I really don't know why you'd not go for the Mac because you get Mac OS X, Classic, plus the ability to run everything Linux runs with a recompile.
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
i have a 12", 700mhz/256mb ibook. all my linux apps that i need are there. especially a nice vim port. i run X with gimp, and it runs great, while i am testing mysql/php on apache, have mail open, mozilla, and assorted other stuff. and it doesn't lag at all. i don't know what all the bitching about speed is about. of course i can't "compile a kernel in 5 minutes...", but i have all the power i need. no, i'm not playing UT2K3.
and, the best part, i get 3.5-4 hours battery, plus, the it truly is a laptop. i can leave it my lap for hours. everything just works. usb, firewire, cd-rw, etc. yes, i have gotten all to work fine in linux. i use linux in my classroom. have for a few years. i was thinking seriously about a dell, or powernotebook.com laptop. but i ended up with the ibook simply because it is a sub 5 pound unix laptop and i didn't want to pay the m$ tax either. if you measure the price, you're not giving up too much with an ibook compared to a PC laptop. and you're getting a ton more. just get minimum 256mb, preferrably 384mb.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Buy a Used Laptop. Someone else may already have consumed a MS license on that hardware, true, but you will not be consuming one yourself. None of your money will be heading to Redmond (unless you account for the effect of resale value of hardware that was originally sold with a MS license).
:-)
eBay is a great place to start looking
The reason that it can be true that 1+1 > 2 is that very peculiar nonzero value of the + operator
Man, if you're looking at the white iBook and you say it's too heavy then you're in for a trouble. At 2.2 kgs that thing is light enough, lighter than about 90% of laptops there is. There goes 90% of your choice.
:)
Then you want one with long battery life, and most laptops nowadays have 2-3 hours. I approximate there goes another 70% of what's left of your choice.
Also you'd like one with USB, Firewire, ethernet, and wifi support. I think you can get USB and ethernet built in, and wifi is probably there too, but firewire is relatively new in the PC space, so you'll probably gonna need one in a PCMCIA card. The problem is usually PCCards are power hogs, so you won't get the full maximum battery life out of it. Beats me how iBook did it and still have a decent battery life. I approximate you lost another 60%-70% here.
The problem is you don't want to pay for windows at all. Most PC laptop manufacturer today simply don't want to bother refunding windows because most laptop devices require very specific driver to work. For example Toshiba doesn't even have a BIOS setup, all is done through an app in windows. The last laptop I've used that has a BIOS like in desktops (and you'll _definitely_ need one of it) is Dell. But none of Dell's models are lighter and smaller than the iBook.
So in conclusion:
1. Your choice is extremely small, if you did find one exactly like your spec, maybe it'll be just one machine with no other choice.
2. Some of your requirements are contradicting one another, try to loosen up in some area.
3. Even when you did find one, it'll probably be extremely expensive. Or, it'll be of very low quality from an unknown manufacturer.
I think your only choice is that iBook you're looking at in the first place. It's just a tad heavier and bigger than you like. The only other viable option is the Picture Book from Sony, but you'll have to swallow the windows license there.
I got the same problem before, as I already owned a Win2000 CD, and I needed to purchase two laptops. Mind you, I purchased them _in sequence_ and they blow up in sequence as well, so no two copies of them running at the same time, blah blah blah. In short me and my windows CD are perfectly law abiding. But no, I have to buy _another_ windows with each laptop I bought. Now I have multiple copies of 2000 and XP scattered around, and me end up paying MS tax multiple times.
It's pretty frustrating, I know, but trying to get what I wanted was extremely difficult (I needed a high performance one. Light, and small if possible) and the chance of finding it was small. In your case, it's very miniscule.
My suggestion is don't try to look for something that doesn't exist, you'll be wasting your time and energy getting frustrated. Get that damned iBook instead
Check out an IBM X series ThinkPad. It's their ultralite series. Very nice. Many of the current Thinkpads can be ordered with 802.11b on a mini-pci card with integrated antennas.
They also sell the Thinkpads with Linux.
I bought a Fujitsu Lifebook P-2000 Series and I love it. I'm not the terminal, Anti-Windows guy, so I got it with XP. In the customization part of their website, you can get rid of Windows, but your savings will only be what they pay for a copy of Windows; not what you would pay. My Lifebook has 2 USBs, 1 Firewire, 1 RJ-45, 1 RJ-11, and built-in 802.11b (not PCMCIA). It uses a Transmeta Crusoe Processor, 256Mb, 40Gb HD, It weighs 3.4 pounds and the battery life is ~3 hours. Other battery options allow up to 14 hours (I'm told). This thing cost me $1299 and it's awesome (except for the Win XP :-)
Also check out Laptops Inc. They have a good selection of used ones.
Good Luck!
Microsoft site licenses usually require companies to pay for machines which don't have Windows on them. I can only imagine that Microsoft makes the same requirements on computer vendors when they sell machines without Windows, or with some other OS. So even if you buy a new machine without Windows, you will probably still be lining Microsoft's pockets buying such a machine.
:)
And as another poster mentioned, you will probably spend way more money buying such a machine from some no-name vendor (and still pay the Microsoft tax) compared to the cheaper price of a name-brand laptop with Windows pre-installed.
One alternative for the poster is to sell a $50 pen with a free copy of Windows included
In case of fire, do not use elevator. Use water!
Metamatic -
... so it worked for me) :
Sounds like you want a used machine. I would suggest looking on ebay and/or the computer refurb houses for a machine that is maybe a year old, go with a high quality manufacturer and it could still be under warranty (I personally like Dell, I have three within arms reach of me, counting laptops and my server.)
The only issue I see going with hardware that is a year+ old is the 1394 connection - but if it was top of the line a year ago it should have that connection (my last Latitude C800 did and it was a year and a half old.)
Note that you should be able to find a one year old machine for about half of what it cost new, but remember that today's hardware costs less than top of the line gear did a year ago and is much faster. Based on what I remember, you should be able to get whatever was top of the line a year ago for the same price as the entry level stuff new, but the entry level stuff is going to be about 1.5x as fast as the one year old top of the line machine.
I am not saying it will give you the best bang for the buck, but it will satisify your entire request. Personally I would buy a new entry level machine from Dell (or your favorite company) for about $750 delivered and then toss the XP CD / license in your closet. Add some aftermarket RAM and networking gear and you are all set - for about $900 including the 802.11b.
I just checked, Dell has a laptop (the Inspiron 2650C) on sale for $700 after rebate (yes, rebates suck but I did get mine back
14" screen XGA
128M RAM (www.crucial.com)
20G hd
24x CD
16MB DDR 4X AGP NVIDIA GeForce2 Go(TM)Vid
Floppy
Integrated 56k modem and NIC
1 year warranty.
If you didn't want to jack with the warranty ($150) you could get the 802.11b PCMCIA card and a 802.11b router (I didn't bother to read the details) instead. Brings the price of the system to $850.
Upgrade to a 15" screen for $50.
Nice.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Netlux
They have some decent laptops for cheap. For weight, I seriously doubt that in any way you are going to beat an ibook. You will have to decide, is the size and cost going to beat the weight and possibility of the MS tax.
The netlux machines work well, my brother uses one on a constant basis, but it's really up to you.
They basically ignored me until I told them that I would never buy a Dell again. (Which has more to do with poor design (who puts the hard disk and cdrw on the same ide controller?) and poorer customer service (they refused to sell me a replacement video card, so I bought one from ebay). Piggybacked on to this was the "whom do I email about returning this bundled software", and they completely ignored that question.
So, this is what I did.
1.) Don't boot the software.
2.) Don't open the software.
3.) Since you have not agreed to these licenses, the "thou shalt not resell this" does not apply to you.
4.) So, I resold the license to a guy at work for $50. (There was no real OS CD, just a recovery disk. However, he had one already, so I just sold him a license).
5.) In theory, you could sell this on ebay, but I've heard of MS using its' clout to pull those ads.
Of course, there is another reason to actually fight with the OEM - MS can no longer publish those "we run on 95% of all consumer PC's sold", when what really happens is that many people wipe the disk and install another OS. (I'd call it perhaps 25% dual boot, and maybe another 10% just do 1 OS.)
IBM ThinkPads work well with Linux. You might have to sell the farm to afford one, but they're quality.
Visit http://store.apple.com/ then click the 'special deals' red tag in the lower-left corner. Bang, Apple-refurbed products, most notably the $800, 600 MHz iBook. It might be heavier than you want, but the screen goes to 1024x768, and at that price, it might be worth looking at again. Also, 22" flat panels for $1349. woo hoo! Otherwise, hit eBay for a used VAIO.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I have a Sony U3 that I just got in Japan, and I tried to install Red Hat on it. Ha. Red Hat had no idea what was going on, it couldn't find a sound card, anything to use the extra buttons, jog dials etc. and the resolution was terrible. Needless to say, I put my M$ back on, cried, and then slipped it into my shirt pocket.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Only God knows how many services are running on a Windows Server. The system administrators surely never do. You know why? They aren't God.
However, on a *NIX based system, the Admin is actually equal to God on that server. Allowing that on Windows would defeat Microsoft's purpose of having control of everything.
Anyway, 600Mhz, would be much more then fine for a Linux desktop/laptop system. Heck, it would even be good as a server. As a good "for instance", I have a PII 350 with a 32MB TNT2 video card with the Accelerated 3D graphics drivers from Nvidia. I tell you, it's not the fastest, but it is able to run an Open Source game called "Racer!" pretty well.
You should see the graphics and the tectures in this game. The detail that was done to the vehicle models is very impressive. I can honestly say that under Windows, you would need a machine at least twice as fast to be able to display the graphics this game displays under Linux.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
I would like to know if any retailer actually splits Windows from a laptop when a customer requests it and then installs THAT version onto a desktop machine for someone else. Is such a thing even legal (I assume it would be)?
BZZZTTT! Wrong!
It's not that USB can't work. It's just that the ACPI implementation in the kernel currently sucks rocks, and most Sony laptops seem to use ACPI to assign IRQ's. Add the ACPI patch from the acpi project and all that problem goes away. SuSE 8.1 does that for you, and their kernel maintainer keeps a cutting edge, functional kernel around. The Linux-Sony Mailing Lists have all the info needed to get everything working under Linux. Everything.
I have an SRX-87, which is significantly smaller than an iBook, functioning completely and without exception with Mandrake 9.0 and a patched vanilla kernel. Firewire, USB, 802.11b, DVD - the works. Wait - I haven't tried the modem. I hear it works too, though.
It's the same thing that Emperor Linux rebadge, and lots cheaper from BestBuy.
I'm very happy with mine.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
Just wondering-the author was looking to buy an iBook, but is blantantly opposed to paying the M$ tax. What about the Apple tax that come with Apple hardware? Apple won't sell hardware without an OS.
The iBook is cute, but, IMHO overpriced. Moreso, the lack of a PC Card slot and the lack of IR means I won't be getting one.
The author is going out of his way to avoid giving MS any money for something he won't use, but seemed to have no problem paying apple for software he won't use. My point is perhaps he should not be outright opposed to buying windows if he gets a better machine. Windows "only" adds maybe $30 to the cost of a PC.
I will not purchase Windows!
I can recommend many places you can "obtain" Windows without purchasing it.
Cyde Weys Musings - Scrutinizing the inscrutable
Must have USB and Firewire, built-in ethernet, and 802.11b support ... Small is important, lightweight is important, long battery life is important. I don't care about screen size ... Performance isn't a major concern... don't play games ... will not pay for windows
uh, get an ibook? oh wait...
seriously, ibook + osx + fink + apple X11 == everything you want in a linux laptop, except for the ugly fonts. If you're dying for more speed get the new 12" G4 Powerbook (~$1700), which is just like the ibook only smaller in every dimension, and faster.
why exactly does your current ibook fail your requirements, anyway?
If you've decided to acquiesce on the "no-Windows" stance, I'd suggest looking at the CNET Notebook section for info. There are sections are for value as well as thin and light notebooks, among others, and looking through those sections is a lot quicker than navigating through the separate laptop sections on each manufacturer's website.
My take on notebooks (currently); wait. Banias is around the corner (March 12 last I heard) bringing +3 hour battery time coupled with excellent performance (it's easy to find slower laptops with significantly longer battery times though). Cost will be an issue (if you're looking at sub-$1500), so I'd suggest waiting even longer after Banias. Having performance, price and portability all in one laptop is about to become possible though; all you need to do is hold off from purchasing for a bit more.
japanrush.com has nice slick sony viaos imported from japan and they CHARGE EXTRA for windows.
So don't pay!
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Who would of thought that over half the people answering this question suggested iBooks or Powerbooks?
Think this would of happened 2 years ago?
Half right, half wrong...
Apple didn't invent it, they licensed it from George Gerpheide. Apple was the first to market a laptop with a touchpad.
If you want a source for this tidbit, click away.
"Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
If you think about it, the modifier key (ctrl) to do a "right click" is right by the trackpad on any Powerbook. So it's really easy to work with as it's really just about as easy to use as a second "mouse button"... easier in some ways because you only have one large mouse button to press so you can't miss and get the wrong one.
When using an external keyboard it's more of a pain - but then you also usually have an external USB mouse with two buttons (which I do). I really don't find it annoying to switch between the two, and in fact more and more I find myself away from the dock and just using the computer wherever I am (since I have wireless almost every I sit around now).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you want to make a statement by spending an extra $500- $1000 just to not have Windows, fine. I suggest you can make a more effective statement by just getting the commodity laptop and giving the $500+ you save over an allegedy "Windows-free" machine to GNU, BSD, and/or EFF, depending upon the particular point you are trying to make.
If you truly want to avoid money going to MS, just get an iBook ( or Powerbook if you can swing it.) Those are great, sturdy, well-arranged machines. Actually, I'm not sure how sturdy the Powerbooks are but the iBooks are unbelievable and really are made for 12-year olds as far as being tossed in backpacks and so on.
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
Here's a direct link.
Also, here is a very good user discussion forum concerning the P2000 laptop, which actually has a seperate forum for the linux users, so you can check up on what you can expect:
http://www.leog.net/fujp_forum/
On a sidenote, I can say that Fijutsu will *not* ship any laptop without the windows license. In fact, when you send in the system for repair and they need to replace the hard drive (which contains the repair image), you have to pay for a new license.
i have had an ibook for about a year, and i'm a very satisified customer, my next upgrade will certainly be an 12" powerbook. (I use linux on a monster-desktop)
what i haven't seen mentioned is that apple's education discounts are often pretty decent. my g.f. (who is a grad student) might "help" me get one, which where she is, is under $1700 with superdrive. when i spec out other portables with superdrive they usually seem to be currently ending up really close to that. plus i really like the hard metal case.....
whenever i think of getting a portable for linux i'm always bummed about the wierd buttons and scrollwheels and stuff that i know i'll never quite get working under linux.
heck, if i was going to get pc to run windows i'l still want one that was as simple, small, and cleanly designed as my ibook. the form-factor for me is something that i'm very comfortable with ergonomically.
Preinstalled with linux, subnotebook format...
It's just an idea...
Sounds like you want on ene of the new 12" G4 laptops. Comes with *nix as standard. OK,
it _is_ expensive, but if it's want you really want then it's worth it. Also, don't forget that the
GHz rating for P4-M laptops is a load of crock. My
Compaq EVI N800v (1.7GHz P4-M) spends most of its time running at 1.1 GHz because it's running on batteries. Also, if battery life is really important, then you you'll find the Macs hard to beat.
return 0; }
When you buy online, most companies such as Dell, IBM, Compaq, etc. will force you to buy some software package.
:)
If you, however, call them on the phone and talk to one of their sales reps, you can have the bundled software removed (including the OS).
I would recommend a Dell, or if you have the money for it, an IBM Thinkpad. I love my ThinkPad.
You just have to talk to a real person, which I understand is sometimes difficult for some computer literate people, but you have to work to get what you want in life.
- A non-apple notebook depreciates 1/(2^n) where n is the time in years you bought it.
- It is better to buy a really good quality one, as they are much better put together.
I develop on linux, but can't wean myself off editplus (although I like kate a lot). I have just bought a couple of toshiba 7200s for about $600. With the money I have saved, they now have 802.11,10/100, and 320MB, 40GB. Ultralight magnesium frame, made in japan quality, and still the biggest screen on an ultralight (13.3 XGA). Both dualboot 2000/7.3. One mainly 2000, one mainly 7.3, but redundancy is useful. And buying second hand means you are not paying anything to the he-who-cannot-be-named.Humorous signatures are over-rated.
Give me fifty quid or I'll cut your throat. Multiply your hourly rate by the time taken up with finding the police, going to court, and talking to your lawyer, congratulations, you've lost money in the long run.
Get it?
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I just replaced a R505 with a 12" PowerBook. In every respect, the Apple is the superior machine:
The R505 series of Vaio feel very very cheap. The nice metal cover that had been on the older series Vaios has been replaced by a run-of-the-mill piece of plastic. After a year, the screen hinge barely works, and the power adapter socket will only make an adequate connection when I hold it just right.
On paper, the R505 is smaller, but it doesn't feel any smaller. The way the 12"PB is hinged makes it open in a very compact way - unlike the R505 which seems to need a great deal more room to fully open. On a train or plane, the 12" PB can be held on the tray table with the screen at a reasonable angle even with the seat reclined in front of you. No chance of doing this with the Vaio.
Finally, the PB12" is much much smaller when you consider its relative size with the DVD drive installed. On the Vaio, you need to plug the unit into its base to get the DVD drive - doubling the size and weight of the thing. With the Apple, it's just there, and just works.
You say you're fine with a PCMCIA 802.11 solution, but have you really used one of these for any length of time? The antenna portion of the card makes for an awkward fit - especially compared with the elegance of the Mac's built-in airport.
Don't get me started on OSX. You want to run Linux why? Honestly, with X11 installed within OSX, I'm finding it hard to find reasons to run Linux.
According to Gateway's testomany in the MS court case : "Gateway also faulted another provision of the new licensing agreement, which requires PC makers to pay a Windows royalty on every PC shipped, even if it didn't include Windows. To top it off, to qualify for market development funds, PC makers have to put a Microsoft OS on every PC. As a result, trying to sell non-Windows PCs, or even PCs without software, is a financial loser for computer makers." http://news.com.com/2100-1001-868413.html
Asus S1 Series
Got everything you wanted, is thin & light and still got a 13,3" screen and you can purchase it without a OS. A internal WLAN nic is available,too.
Linux seems to work without (big) problems: Howto from Linux-on-laptops
Jan
Apple software tax notwithstanding, if/when you come to resell, the iBook will have retained FAR more of it's original selling price than virtually ANY x86 notebook.
That was classic intercourse!
Yeah, really strange they wouldn't allow me to boot all the PCs in the store from that ripper-infected floppy.
Sigged!
Got one of these last week through work - my first impression was OMG!! but it's now running good - 1024x768@24bit - with full access to everything on the docking station, including the firewire/scsi/ide/wtf?? CD-R/DVD drive.
:o)), and has everything you want. I read somethere that it is the european version of the R505 ?
r aphics.htm
It's light (without the docking station
I (eventually) settled on redhat 8.0. You have to boot off the first CD, then do a network (http/ftp/nfs) install due to the firewire CD drive..
You'll then want to get the 2.4.20 kernel, and apply the ACPI patch from http://acpi.sourceforge.net/
You'll also need the updated i830 driver from intel at http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/linux/g
A pretty good wireless howto can be found at http://www.cowplop.com/writing/pcg-srx77/.
Anyhow, a week on, it's really shaping up. I'm refining a HOWTO which I'll post and get linked from http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/sony.html real soon. If anyone's wanting to get one of these up and running ASAP, contact me via my website (link above) and I'll email you the howto as it stands.
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
I'd suggest a refurbished Dell from Dell Financial Services. These are machines that were used by businesses as part of a lease program and were returned. Most still have warranties. More importantly, no OS and no OS tax. Check it out.
Speak truth to power.
'coz;
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
Sounds like a Transmeta device would be right on target. You can then avoid both windows and intel.
http://www.antelopetech.com
http://www.transmeta.com
They can also operate as a mouse button. Tap. Tap and drag, etc. Another Apple first
This, to my mind, is the absolute worst feature about them. I hate this. Reason: I'm typing away, and want to move the mouse. So I go and move my thumbs to the pad to move the pointer. Result: I've just clicked somewhere I don't want to click. If I'm lucky, I can back out of what I just unintentionally clicked on and didn't close something.
Any input device where you have to be very, very careful to touch it gingerly so as not to accidentally give input you didn't mean to give is a poorly designed input device, in my opinion.
-Rob
Fujitsu P-2110 - 860 Mhz Crusoe Processor - 256 Megs ram - 20 Gig disk - 8 meg Rage Mobility Chip - 2 USB - 1 Firewire - 1 PCMCIA Type 2/3 port - Removable DVD/CD-RW drive - built in 802.11b I've succesfully installed and used for months and months Slackware 7.1 and 80. I have read the forums and found that several people there use Debian and Gentoo. This laptop is about 11 inches wide and 7 inches deep and about one inch high. It's about 2-3 lbs without the burner in it. Wicked laptop!
http://www.aslab.com/
ASL Linux is great. I have a Monarch laptop. It is a ~3.5 lbs with a nice XGA 13 inch screen. Detachable base for CD/battery/floppy adds another 3 lbs. Mine is pretty old, but I asume the new ones are pretty nice. Good service, only install Windows if you pay extra. They set up partitions however you want, even networking. My laptop has 1 pc card slot, I use it for wireless at home.
I have bought a few other orders from these guyst (desktop systems). They will gladly dual boot your system and configure to your needs. They have been around for a while as well. I think I bought my first desktop from them four years back.
Ed
Hi,
... - laptop manufacturer, and only Dell was willing to sell me one without a payment for the OS.
...
:)
...
:)
...
:?
:))
...
:)
:P
I live in Belgium, Europe - and I tried calling every - Toshiba, Sony, Compaq, Dell, Mac, Acer, Siemens,
Typically - the salesperson or manager would go like "your computer will not work without Win XP" or something like that ; I confronted them that I would never be using the installed XP OS and so on, and every time when I stated that I wanted to run Linux on it, or eventually - that I already had a legal copy of Win 2000 that was just fine for me to install - they would switch me to another operator higher in the "chain of command"
There - I learnt that because of OEMs with MS, they were not allowed to sell a laptop without an MS license, unless the quantity would be > 1000 pieces.
So - I figured that Dell would be the nicest of them, considering their ads state they uncercut competition
I kept calling there, and after four times hearing the same song that my computer is useless without Windows OS (go figure), I got connected to this person who was willing to send and sell me a laptop without OS - meaning I got a +/- 150$ discount on the machine.
So - I called back all the other companies - being a pain in the ass that I normally am in such situations - and tell them about Dell doing this favour for me. While before, they were stating to me that absolutely "NO" company whatsoever would be giving me a discount -some companies ( Toshiba, Compaq) stated that there were plans for doing so within six months, and talks were ongoing, since apparently I was not the only one to call in with questions like this
One fun detail though : when I received my shipment with my shiny Inspiron 8200 - Win XP was installed, and !!! the official DELL CD with the OS backup thing to reinstall, was included as well, meaning I got an official copy so to speak.
All the same - on my invoice - there was clearly a mention of the fact that I got a 150$ discount for not wanting the OS installed on it
So - apparently, from what I heard from the salesperson when I contacted him again on the matter of the included CD - they are obliged at Dell to send the laptop with the Windows installed, because that is their check to see if all the hardware is performing right
And it probably would have costed them more even in manhours to remove it again, once installed.
It is strange though - that they were still sending the CD along
My recommendation - bug every company as much as you can to sell you one without OS. Then - if they don't want to - tell them that they leave you no other choice than buying with the competition (be sure to mention the model you wanted to buy from them - I used to think I heard the salesperson's hair getting up from shrinking profits
If nothing works- go to Dell.com - tell them explicitly you don't want an OS installed, and try several times until you get a person who is willing to help you
BTW - I did this not so long ago for a company as well, and they got a discount too, for not installing the OS ; this one was blank however, no Win installed, and no CD's either ; there was a DOS disk included though - which also struck me as weird, but hey - another 150$ discount made it a good day
Good luck
Knowledge first. Social contact later.
That's fine, you can always steal it. We won't tell anything ;)
In a similar direction to buying an iBook/Powerbook from Apple, there is another non-x86 option, Buying a UltraSPARC (sun) based laptop from Tadpole Computers that runs Solaris. In my search for a laptop earlier this year, I did eventually give up and pay the M$tax. I do run windows on it, (just not the version it came with), and Linux, and BeOS, and hopefully soon Solaris x86 too. It seems that OSless x86 laptops don't really exist anymore, but you do have two other options. (Although both are a bit pricey).
If you go to www.dfsdirectsales.com -- not the Dell outlet site, but the Dell Financial Services direct sales site -- you'll find systems that Dell leased out, and has since taken back. Because Windows was "licensed" to the original user and cannot be transferred, these systems are all sold without operating systems! (The Microsoft tax has already been paid; you don't have to pay it again.)
I don't think you're to beat a 12 inch iBook or Powerbook for small and light, though, and if "[p]erformance isn't a major concern," why are you worried about it enough to rule out a Mac?
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
There are a few problems with Sager. 1.Those things are expensive compared to the big retailers. 2. M$ noticed the no OS option, and it sadly, is gone, it happened while I was shopping for a notebook, and they had a "according to the new Microsoft volume licensing we are no longer able to offer Systems without Microsoft Windows" sort of message up for a few days. 3. He said small, Sager doesn't make small laptops (smallest is a 14.1"@about 7lbs)
I actually have two iBooks, one running pure OS X and one running Yellowdog. Let me tell you, Yellowdog on an iBook is a sweet thing. When it comes down to it, you want a full-featured laptop that's easy on the wallet. That R505 vaio is cute, but the screen's tiny and it uses an external CD drive. On top of that, regardless of what the specs say its battery life is only about 3-3.5 hours. The iBooks I have get an average of 4 hours per full charge (I get damned close to five if I'm careful, sometimes).
On top of that, the apple hardware is, as many other slashdotters have mentioned, pretty high quality. I bought my first iBook because a friend of mine accidentally shoved his out of a second story window. The battery shot out, but he put it back in and, aside from a few scratches on the case, it worked fine. Plus, you can find a dual-usb with firewire ibook for under a thou these days, with a CDRW if you're lucky. The emperorlinux guys are selling machines for twice that without a removable media drive.
Also, the thing about Mac Linux being closer to the hardware is true. Unlike installing Redhat on my PC, I didn't have to screw around with source tarballs to get my hardware to work. Just a thought if you like things to be easy.
- Cloud
Qli sells new laptops with Linux preinstalled. Their prices range from one thousand to over two, for a fully loaded machine. They don't sell any that are tiny, like the Vaio, but there are other companies that do sell refurbished laptops and small form factor laptops with no Windows tax. I chose Qli because I was looking for a particular feature set, and because one of their installation options is Gentoo, which is my current favorite distribution.
I got an 1800MHz, 512MB (2GB max), 15.1" LCD, 20Gb, DVD/CDRW laptop for a shade over $1800. It has onboard ethernet, three USB (one of which is USB 2.0), onboard firewire, and a single CardBus slot. It was, practically, the perfect configuration I was looking for; the price was reasonable, and (as I said) they offered Gentoo as an install option.
My experience with Qli has been good. I agreed that they would install Gentoo 1.4, which is technically still beta, and this was Qli's first 1.4 laptop, so I had to do some work after the machine arrived to get it fully configured. I would expect that if you chose Gentoo 1.2, Mandrake, or Redhat, it would arrive fully configured. Qli provides a large number of installation options, and money you pay for the distribution of your choice (which varies) goes to the distribution.
The best thing about Qli, IME, was the customer service. The staff are extremely knowledgable and helpful, and are good about responding to support requests. They have a good understanding of kernel configurations, from which kernel modules are required to support which features to various configuration options.
I'm also very happy with the hardware. Although it isn't yet supported by Linux, I was pleasantly surprised that the laptop came with an unadvertised MMC/SD slot.
There are a couple of hangups with my particular hardware, but none of it is Qli's fault. The laptop is entirely ACPI, and ACPI support in Linux is immature. Consequently, I can't suspend the laptop (!) -- yet. OpenGL is proved to be a bear to get working, but this is due to my choice of distributions; apparently, Redhat on this laptop has full accellerated GL support out of the box. There is an onboard WinModem, but we know about those.
In summary, I can recommend Qli. You need to evaluate your own requirements, and then send them an email before you buy. They'll give you status reports on various configurations and recommend a system for you.
[Disclaimer] I do not work for Qli, and I don't receive any compensation for recommending them. My only relationship with Qli is that I've recently purchased a laptop from them.
Vobis (www.vobis.de) sells blank machines. They come with "PC DOS 2000" preinstalled which is just a lame excuse for not violating the MS gag agreement. The XP preinstalled models are 100.- more expensive.
Dell doesn't claim they do, but for corporate customers they do sell some of their machines without preinstalled OS, and they are cheaper than the regular ones. At least I found this out when I phoned Dell Germany some months ago... they actually transferred me to somebody who claimed he'd be able to sell me a laptop without pre-installed software.
Perhaps that helps. Otherwise, buy a Powerbook. ;)
Home Page
If you don't want to pay the windows tax (Or the HP/Dell/etc. markup). Go to a source that is closer to the manufatcurer. For example, Compal is one of the larger actual laptop manufacturers - they supply HP, and toshiba, among others. If you want their hardware, find a smaller VAR for their Compal. E.g. Sceptre, Chembook, etc. All the majors do is just change the looks slightly and bundle the hardware with software and support.
The smaller the VAR, the smaler the markup (generally). You can configure the machine as you like, and you can buy them without an OS.
That being said, my most recent laptop purchase was from www.discountlaptops.com - and I didn't pay the windows tax. There are many of places you can find *just* the hardware - you just have to look.
I have a prostar laptop. I bought it with Windows. I have a second disk that I've installed Mandrake Linux (8.0, 8.1, 9.0).
In looking for a replacement I called prostar and they said they would sell me a machine without an OS and give me a discount of $70.
The machine I have is pretty heavy, but they do have some lighter models.
They're quite a bit cheaper than Dell, HP, etc..
http://www.pro-star.com/
http://www.laclinux.com/cgi-bin/laptop.py
sells laptops preinstalled with a variety of GNU/LInux distributions, and MS Windows is optional. They come in a variety of sizes.
By the way with regard to the "Microsoft Tax", as far as I know, there really is no such thing. Companies that force customers to have an MS OS installed in their new system are usually following the requirements of an agreement they have with Microsoft. By the agreement, they get MS OSs very cheap, hence they do not have to add $100+ to each system to recover the cost of the MS OS. There are other requirements too -- e.g. It is not allowed to display the price of the MS OS as a part of the full system price. The MS OS must be presented as an "integral part of the computer system, without which, the computer is unusable". Ya right.
Yellow Dog Linux is an awesome Linux distribution for the Mac and works quite well. I have my laptop set up with dual-boot into YDL and OS X. You get the best of both worlds. Boot into Linux all the time and then into OS X when you just want the dang thing to work. ;)
Also, the people at TerraSoft (makers of YDL) are also Apple resellers, but get this: They are preinstalled with YDL! I would definitely check this out. If they are selling the 12in PowerBook, order it from them. Then you will get a brand new MiniPowerBook with Linux preinstalled. Snazzy!
http://pixelcort.com/
Well I don't want to get in to the argument over performance - that one has been done to death.
I want to talk about my experience with my iBook. In short I love it. Yes it is only an 800MHZ G3 but there is no perceptible lack of power, in fact I sometimes find myself marvelling at just how well it multitasks. RAM is the key with OS X, I bought a 512MB DIMM from Crucial at the same time as I bought the machine. Cheap and works a treat.
The machine is a joy to use, I hate touchpads, but I have got used to this one.
The keyboard is quite good, though on UNIX having to press alt-3 for # is annoying (I must find some software to remap that silly double s key to hash lol). The terminal software is fantastic once you have it set to green on black with transparency. Things like tomcat are easy to install. The machine is light and seems fairly robust. I use it all day at work in one user account for managing UNIX servers and writing proposals in Word, then take it home in the evening and use it for browsing the net and checking my mail. The display is wonderful. OmniGraffle is far superior to Visio and I the only MS tax I paid was for the heavily discounted version of Office I bought with the machine.
Last night after a couple of drinks I saw a PC laptop in standby. It looked so ugly with that horrible flashing green LED and its big silver case... I work with rack mount servers, I'm not obsesses with looks, but give me the dimming-brightening standby light on my nice white iBook anyday.
The build in Ethernet is great. The USB is great. All it needs is a serial port for console management - and you can get them cheaply enough.
Just announced by Lindows: http://info.lindows.com/mobilepc/mobilepc.htm