Salon on M.U.L.E Creator Dani Bunten

douglips writes "If you're a hacker of a certain age, chances are you played M.U.L.E. Salon is running a story on M.U.L.E. creator Dan[i] Bunten. Ahead of her time, she insisted that games would be most enjoyable when they involved social interactions rather than just flashy single-player action and graphics."

Comments

I remember it on the C64

[donmilo]

Was this game really that good, or do we just remember it as being great. I loved the game in the 80s, but I don't think it would hold my interest for a minute today.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[HamNRye]

Did Dan Bunton become Dani Bunton in the 2.0 release... I heard he had some new features added. (And unlike Microsoft, a few removed too.)

~Hammy

The purpose of terrorism lies not just in the violent act itself. It is in producing terror. It sets out to inflame, to divide, to produce consequences which they then use to justify further terror.
-Tony Blair Today, 2003

Re:I remember it on the C64

[herc_mk2]

I played about a month ago (gotta love those C64 emulators...) It's still fun. Not flashy, but it holds your interest. A lot of the jokes (like when something bad happens) have lost their relevance though...

"Modern" game designers, take note...

Re:I remember it on the C64

[garcia]

why not? I find the games of "today" to be mostly boring and uninteresting (ie. GTA3 or FF(x))

Nothing can hold my attention like Ms. Pacman, Tetris, Insane Game, Scrabble, Karateka, Wizardry, random other titles from back in the day.

I have a PS2 but it is mostly good for games like GT1 and 3 (w/the wheel of course), Madden, or Tiger Woods 2k3.

I say try out some of those old games. They are actually entertaining and difficult. I don't find GTA3 particurarly difficult or attention grabbing (hopping from car to car, killing random people).

Re:I remember it on the C64

[ackthpt]

Was this game really that good, or do we just remember it as being great.

It was good. I've lamented over the years why EA hasn't acted to reissue this game, but when I look at it... If they did it would probably be as some horribly delayed, then ultimately released as a pile of crap game. The simple formula worked. And it's probably best to just stick with playing the old C64 and Atari versions on emulators.

BTW, as testament to it's goodness, you see original copies of M.U.L.E. clear $35 on eBay. I've tried to get a copy, just for the manual and been outbid a number of times.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't find GTA3 particurarly difficult or attention grabbing (hopping from car to car, killing random people).

I don't think I understand.. :(

Re:I remember it on the C64

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

If you enjoy wizardry, get Wizardry for the PS2 (can't remember the subtitle - Tales from a Foresaken Land, i think). It's very much like the original Wizardry games (though it's actually a "fork" from the original series :)

They updated it to take advantage of the PS2 capabilities, added a lot of plot and quests, added more elements to the combat (trust between you and your group is very important) - all without removing the charms of the original games.

The plot is a bit cliched and some of the writing is (deliberately) goofy, but it's quite fun.

It's hard to find, but it's worth it if you can find it.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[douglips]

BTW, as testament to it's goodness, you see original copies of M.U.L.E. clear $35 on eBay. I've tried to get a copy, just for the manual and been outbid a number of times.

Don't you hate that, when at the last minute the guy moves his joystick and runs away from you and you're like "Wait Wait! I'll pay more!" and you keep running and running but you just can't catch him and then bang the auction is over.

I hate that.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Saige]

Exactly - Dani Bunten was transsexual. It happens more than you'd expect in the computer realm. I think Slashdot had an article about a year or so ago about someone who had made a huge advancement in the computer field, then disappeared due to being transsexual, and her for the longest time not taking credit for the work she did as "he".

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Coz]

I played a round of it last Christmas - my old C128 with the C64's floppy drive (the 128's died), and my old game disks. M.U.L.E. was good, although I eventually had to play single-player - noone wanted to play me anymore. Archon was good too - strategy of chess, action of an arcade game.

I remember thinking how cool it was that there were folks in Arkansas (where I grew up) that could write those things... I wanted to do that.

Years later, a friend and I wrote a game. It was fun, but the bad part of writing a game for your friends is that they tend to complain a lot if things aren't "perfect" - and few agreed on perfection.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[L0stb0Y]

Yeah, I totally remember this game on the C64~ I also remember thinking that the Mule (on the C64) looked alot like that AT-ATs in the Starwars game on the old Atari...

LosT

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Fizzl]

I just downloaded a C64 emu and the M.U.L.E. image.

It seemed to have too slow tempo now to keep my interest. I'll give it another go tomorrow when I have better time. (And am well rested)

I recall this being my very favourite game back in the 64 days.

I wish I still enjoy it. If I don't, I must have the much touted attention span disorder too.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[PyroMosh]

*ping*

Idea! We need a MULE based online auction site!

Re:I remember it on the C64

[RavenDuck]

Back in the dawn of time when the C64 was a cutting-edge computer (and I was but a slip of a lad) I knew a guy who was a real warez puppy. Back in those days, it meant that you had a room full of floppy disks - no CDs or hard drives.

I got a few games from this guy, but not that many, mainly because a box of 5.25" floppy disks was prohibitively expensive for me at the time.

I remember asking this guy once what his favourite game was. He had thousands (his list was on fan-fold printer paper, about a 6mm high stack - this was well before email), so I figured it'd be something like Test Drive, or something else graphical and flashy.

Well, his two favourites were actually M.U.L.E. and Castle Wolfenstein (way before id/Raven remade it as RtCW). Personally, I never played them (they weren't flashy enough for my superficial self back then), but I remember thinking that they must be pretty special.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Anonymous Coward]

Was this game really that good, or do we just remember it as being great. I loved the game in the 80s, but I don't think it would hold my interest for a minute today.

What is still good about the game is that it is extremely well balanced. Every feature is useful in competitive play. Every strategy has a counter-strategy, so that if you realize what your opponent is up to and react, you can usually outsmart him.

Also, a set of very basic rules leads to economic strategies that are more complex than you might think.

Of course, it is much harder to develop a well balanced game nowadays because the game rules are many, many times more complex. Compare for example Age of Kings. It's definitely not just the graphics that have changed... old games are extremely minimal compared to modern games, so even though MULE has many real time elements, the play feels more like chess than like Age of Kings (for example).

Re:I remember it on the C64

[QuackQuack]

BTW, as testament to it's goodness, you see original copies of M.U.L.E. clear $35 on eBay. I've tried to get a copy, just for the manual and been outbid a number of times.

Just press your joystick button at the same time as the ebay seller and you can collude!

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Anonymous Coward]

Just press your joystick button at the same time as the ebay seller and you can collude!

Do you have to be on the Tournament level of play to do this?

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Spire]

Well, his two favourites were actually M.U.L.E. and Castle Wolfenstein (way before id/Raven remade it as RtCW).

Historical footnote: You've probably never heard of it, but somewhere between the release of Castle Wolfenstein and Return to Castle Wolfenstein, there was another game with a similar theme -- an very obscure one, called 3-D Castle Wolfenstein, or something like that.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[Urchlay]

> Was this game really that good, or do we just remember it as being great. I loved the game in the 80s, but I don't think it would hold my interest for a minute today.

Yes, it really was that good. I've played the NES version in the past year (2-player only; I don't have the Nintendo 4-controller adaptor doohickey), and it's still *fun*, which is more than I can say for 90% of the modern games I've played.

One of the things that makes MULE great is that the graphics hardware was so cheezy back then, the game designer *had* to concentrate on making the game interesting on a `cerebral' level, instead of appealing to the senses and thrilling the player with amazing-looking graphics.

Think of the difference between reading a good book and seeing a movie. Actually I suppose the analogy would be better made between a good comic book and a movie... both have visual elements, but the movie can blow your mind with effects to the point where you don't even notice if there are huge holes in the plot. You're too busy reacting on a primal/sensual level for your brain to be active.

Some people like movies better than books for the same reason I like books better, and some like modern games better than MULE for the same reason I like MULE better... so I guess the answer to `was this game really that great' depends entirely on which type of person you are. If you thought it was great then, you probably still will think it's great. If you thought it was boring then, I guess you'll still think that.

If you loved the game when it was new, I suggest you get it running again (even if only in an emulator) and find at least one other person who loved it then. Odds are the old magic will still be there.

In the interests of being totally honest though, I'm an old guy, and I like old games. I haven't really been `into' any game that's come out since probably Street Fighter II, although I'll play anything multiplayer with my friends. For single-player games, though, I'll stick with early 1980s `classics'. Your tastes are probably pretty different from mine, so maybe you'll hate MULE if you play it again tomorrow. *shrug*, at least give it a shot.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[fucksl4shd0t]

It seemed to have too slow tempo now to keep my interest. I'll give it another go tomorrow when I have better time. (And am well rested)

I've got it with VICE, and I set the speed to 150%. It's much more playable that fast. I can't tell if the 100% speed (perfect emulation) is too slow for this game, or if the game was really that slow. But 150% makes it perfectly playable, not too fast, and not too slow.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[fucksl4shd0t]

Well, his two favourites were actually M.U.L.E. and Castle Wolfenstein (way before id/Raven remade it as RtCW). Personally, I never played them (they weren't flashy enough for my superficial self back then), but I remember thinking that they must be pretty special.

Those are easily my favorite games of all time. In fact, I recently went in search of them and a c64 emulator (found VICE) and I've been playing them. Then slashdot posts an article about it. Kinda freaky, huh? But those two games still stand out as excellent games, in my opinion. They each have something that has been sorely lacking in games for years, with the possible exception of Civilization.

Re:I remember it on the C64

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I believe you're referring to Lynn Conway. http://www.lynnconway.com

Re:I remember it on the C64

[ohzero]

dude.. i can't find space taxi anywhere and that's why i installed this fookin c64 emulator. Anyone have an url? "HEY TAXI"

Re:I remember it on the C64

[leshert]

There's a reason for that... the guy who drew the art for the mule had an AT-AT model on his desk when he did it!

(This is from Dani herself, circa 1997).

Re:"she"?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to. "She" was a transexual.

Mule? What about Modem Wars?

[lennywood1]

I think Dan should be better remembered for Modem Wars, Possibly the very first online RTS than MULE. It was great fun playing against a friend of mine in MI who was possibly the best MW player out there on my C64 at 2400 baud.

Re:Mule? What about Modem Wars?

[YetAnotherAnonymousC]

Yes, it was definitely a great game. And their next big game, CommandHQ, is one of the all time bests, IMHO. I still play it today.

Re:Mule? What about Modem Wars?

[Alsee]

Yes! ModemWars was awesome. We used to run ModemWars tournaments on Q-link. (Q-link was a 1980's version of AOL for C-64's.) I used the same handle (Alsee) back then. Anyone else here ever play in those tournaments?

I've always hoped for an internet port of ModemWars. There was a version made called "WarSport6", but it blew chunks. They improved the graphics and stuff they totally hosed the game design.

-

Behind my time

[f97tosc]

Ahead of her time, she insisted that games would be most enjoyable when they involved social interactions rather than just flashy single-player action and graphics

I must be behind my time, I still prefer flashy action games over those involving social interactions.

I suppose, multi-player is preferable over single-layer, but nobody can say Counter-Strike involves social interactions...

Tor

Re:Behind my time

[Gortbusters.org]

What about a nice round of capture the flag Quake(1/2/3), or some Unreal Tournament? I know people who have cut off all social interaction to gain status on those games.

Re:Behind my time

[Thud457]

hmmmmm.... how about a M.U.L.E. Quake addon?

(Actually, PAC-MAN might be kind of scary as a FPS)

Re:Behind my time

[Enzondio]

What about a nice round of capture the flag Quake(1/2/3), or some Unreal Tournament? I know people who have cut off all social interaction to gain status on those games.

But in all fairness, how much social interaction did these people engage in anyway?

Re:Behind my time

[localman]

but nobody can say Counter-Strike involves social interactions...

Sure they can. I've played both ways: online and just with bots (in CS and in other games). Despite the shallowness of the social interaction, there is quite a lot of it when the players are human. The way that you form quick non-verbal alliances with teammates to get a certain thing done. The way vendettas come and go. The brainless voice commments...

But that's just it - it's _not_ brainless. I mean, it certainly isn't what one might call intelligent, but it's very human. In fact it's so human that we think it's brainless. But I've yet to see any AI that provides even a dash of the thrill or depth of going against humans - even in a flashy action game.

Nothing wrong with the flashy graphics in and of themselves, but I bet even you would prefer - over the long term - a satisfying game with average graphics to an empty game with flashy graphics.

Re:Behind my time

[kfg]

I don't think there's any doubt that computers have raised the single player game to levels previously unimaginable.

We've gone from puzzle games, crosswords, solitaire and such to fully immersive interactive worlds like Grim Fandango and IL2.

I, for one, think that there's too *much* emphisis on multiplayer these days, to the extent that single player is often totally ignored.

However, all that being said, whether you *think* you are acting socially or not, a multiplayer game of Counter-Strike is an entirely different, ummmm, ball game, just because you *know* those are actually other people out there.

And while I may spend many, many, *many* more hours driving Grand Prix Legends in solo mode it's the online racing against real human beings that gives the game the spice that has allowed it to remain the king of Driving Sims for over 4 years, in a world where a game more than one year old is considered dead.

I'm a geek and a Buddhist. I deeply revere hours spent in solitary concentration and contemplation, even in my recreational hours, but I am *not* socially averse or inept either.

If you think Thoreau was a hermit than if you read Walden for the first time you'll be likely to proclaim him, as did one Amazon reviewer, a "fraud." Thoreau posed an experiment in reducing human living to its bare essentials. He considered social interactions to be one of the things that man cannot truly live *entirely* without and remain a man.

He strove to find the right *balance* between solitude and social interaction.

So should you - and so should game designers.

KFG

Re:Behind my time

[BerkleyB]

Counter-Strike involves social interactions... Depends on your approach. I ran a server for years, and met many good people. Of course, I met some real Nimrods too...

Re:Behind my time

[gl4ss]

so organizing cs(or any other game) team/clan, community and all that doesnt involve social interaction at all?

if you're just having few fights every now and then on the servers and never making any contact to other players outside of the game, thinking tactics, hanging around and & etc then thats the equivalent of playing deus ex halfway through the first scene.

Re:Behind my time

[Zathrus]

Well, of the things you listed - non-verbal alliances, vendettas, and "brainless voice comments" -- only one of those is really social interaction. And a rather negative one at that. Most computer players wouldn't bother with a vendetta - it's not very efficient, especially if the opponent is much better than you and not merely lucky.

The others are essentially poking holes in the AI. Human opponents are better than bots because they're much more "interesting" -- humans can learn and adapt far better than bots do, and they don't use ungodly accuracy to be "better" (although I do know humans who have accuracies that rate up there with the bots... scary really. One of my good friends was one of the top rated Quake players once-upon-a-time, and I know to avoid the hell out of him if playing him in a game of CTF. I don't suck, but he's that much better than me.)

I wouldn't really call FPS or RTS games "social interaction". If you want to see what real social interaction is, then try one of the MMORPGs. I will never play one again because of the time sucking capability they have. But there's much more realistic social interaction there, albeit primarily with people with very low social interaction abilities in the first place.

Re:Behind my time

[DJ FirBee]

Sure it does. You get to know people based on the same mistakes that you see them make time after time right before you kill them again.

Sometimes you get good players that really sweat you and you have to be cunning to win the bout.

I have lost many many hours of my life to counter strike and Tac Ops style games precisely because you can discern a bit about the people through their characters.

Besides, nothing says human interaction like the chat that goes on after a team kill. Especially with a grenade.

Re:Behind my time

[Qrlx]

As an FPS multiplayer addict, I can tell you there is social interaction -- of a sort. There's chatting during the game, and each server usually has a webpage with forums, etc. for more lenghty discussion (such as the 20-page-long "war on iraq" thread at udpviper.com)

You can start a clan with your buddies if you're really into it, and chat away on AIM.

In the game I play, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, you really have to play as a team -- Lieutenants handing out ammo, Medics healing people -- so there is a social thing that happens inside the game itself.

Then there's Roger Wilco, or Ventrilo, etc. that let you chat in realtime with the other people on your team.

I'd say there's plenty of room for social interaction in online gaming.

And, If I could play M.U.L.E. over the Internet, I would. I fire that puppy up on the C64 emulator every now and again. Great fun.

Re:Behind my time

[Anonymous Coward]

"but nobody can say Counter-Strike involves social interactions..."

Sure it does.

Join a clan, and you'll hear constant discussion about the validity of homosexual relations and deep thoughts on the ancestry and lineage of various players.

Join a random server, and you won't even get that. :P

Though, seriously, if you can manage to get a team together that actually has a clue, you can wipe out all opponents, time and time again.

I've seen it happen once on a public server. I've never seen it in a clan. :P

Re:Behind my time

[mangu]

And while I may spend many, many, *many* more hours driving Grand Prix Legends in solo mode it's the online racing against real human beings that gives the game the spice that has allowed it to remain the king of Driving Sims for over 4 years

Wrong, wrong, *wrong*! Any racing simulator has online racing. It's the physically correct simulation that puts GPL in an entirely different plane from the others. Be it some of the pitiful "Test Drive n", or NFSPU, all other car sims have that arcade feeling, while GPL is the only true Simulator.

Re:Behind my time

[kfg]

Great Kings are often supplanted by the least of mortals when the tide of fashion removes their followers.

GPL and its lineal descendents are the only true racing sims yet produced. There you are correct. But it is the online community that makes a sufficient number of people still interested in playing it that keeps it going.

If it weren't for that there would just be a few of us dedicated "wingnuts" playing it alone in our mother's basements.

Where I'm currently dedicating the next year to solo practice to bring my monster rank down to at least the single digits. All life is wasted in one way or another. I intend to enjoy wasting mine.

KFG

Re:Behind my time

[TobiasSodergren]

It has already been done. I remember playing some kind of 3D PacMan on my 386 back in early -90. I don't remember the name, but it was made using 4 color CGA. You walked around in a non-textured 3D maze eating circles on the floor, hoping not to run into an ugly looking ghost. The reason you didn't want to do that was mainly because some annoying, squeaky tune would start playing from the internal speaker if it caught you. Other than that, the game sucked :)

Re:Behind my time

[sleeperservice]

I suppose, multi-player is preferable over single-layer, but nobody can say Counter-Strike involves social interactions...

If you're talking about social interactions while the game is going on, you might have a point. There is, however, a fair amount of social interaction that happens outside the game, mostly as part of Leagues & Clans, but also as the result of LANs and even communities that grow up around a particular server.

And for the anecdotal proof necessary: A week ago my wife & I went to Vancouver for a week to, amongst other things, spend time visiting a couple of friends and their girlfriends who I met on-line playing Counter-Strike. So don't knock it totally, OK?

Re:Behind my time

[nomadic]

Please put "status" in quotation marks when using it in that context...

Re:Behind my time

[Saeger]

But I've yet to see any AI that provides even a dash of the thrill or depth of going against humans

And I've yet to see an AI that can spray its goatse.cx decal as strategically as a human.

--

Re:Behind my time

[Anonymous Coward]

social interaction comes in on LAN. MULE had a lot of the LAN atmosphere even before the LAN accronym even existed.

Re:Behind my time

[Molt]

I'd say if you want to see real social interaction go to the local pub. You're far less likely to witness a bunch of people standing stock-still with their pet'o'the week shouting pre-scripted offers, or riding their horses into banks. Also when you experience lag it's usually due to simply drinking too much rather than there being too many people in the pub at once, or you being too far from the pub.

I rapidly got irritated with Ultima Online, does it show?

Re:Behind my time

[Molt]

Welcome to Slashdot, where even random side-threads about car-racing games eventually come down to a discussion of the merits of the GPL...

This is true..

[Gortbusters.org]

Warcraft by yourself is pretty fun... multiplayer rules.

Duke Nukem by yourself is pretty fun... playing against someone was awesome.

DAOC, EverQuest, heck even all the MUDs that existed were barrels of never-ending fun.

Re:This is true..

[xao gypsie]

DAOC, EverQuest, heck even all the MUDs that existed were barrels of never-ending fun.

but that is their downfall.....never ending fun. not that i ever complained, bur my gpa and girlfriend sure did....oh well, at least i still have something of a gpa..
xao

Re:This is true..

[Hornsby]

Dare I ask? What is a GPA?

Re:This is true..

[xao gypsie]

grade point average.....essentially a measure of how you are doing in school....

xao

Re:This is true..

[kavau]

but that is their downfall.....never ending fun. not that i ever complained, bur my gpa and girlfriend sure did....oh well, at least i still have something of a gpa..

Wrong! That was YOUR downfall...

:-)

Re:This is true..

[Anonymous Coward]

Nearly everyone seemed to be really surly all the time in EverQuest. Maybe that was due to the competition for scarce resources (camps) between players and the threat of painful death hanging over everyone's head.

Wasted time

[sumdeus]

Ask most game designers what their favorite computer game of all time is," says Wright, "and you'll get M.U.L.E. as an answer more often than any other title."

I can not even begin to explain how much time I have "wasted" on this game. I'm just glad that as of late, she's gotten some recognition, although after you've passed, I'm not sure it matters. In any event, great game!

Re:Wasted time

[CrystalFalcon]

The only time I wasted more time on than MULE was Seven Cities Of Gold. I was not astonished, but not really too surprised, to learn that Dan was behind that, too.

Re:Wasted time

[nomadic]

Yep, 7CoG was an awesome game. Kind of hard to avoid killing the natives though; if they touched you they died, so you had to pacify them by giving them gifts while running away from them to make sure you didn't accidently kill any.

Re:Wasted time

[fucksl4shd0t]

Kind of hard to avoid killing the natives though;

I preferred to play it as historically accurate as possible. THerefore, I always slaughtered the natives and built missions. :)

Re:Wasted time

[nomadic]

...blow thine enemy to smithereens, in thy mercy...

before my time

[trmj]

However I do remember watching my former neighbor playing it.

Now she's gotten her comp-sci major and is working in the IT dept for some university in Virginia.

I guess it was a game for geeks of the time, as it didn't seem to interest me then (before I was into computers).

Re:before my time

[n0rm]

I guess it was a game for geeks of the time, as it didn't seem to interest me then (before I was into computers).

This isn't too far off. In '85 when I was playing MULE only the "nerds" had computers to play with.

I had a Atari 130XE and MULE wouldn't run on it, but a friend and I would play MULE, Ultima4, or Alternate Reality for days on end given a chance. He had a tricked out Atari400 with 64K (I think) and a second keyboard hooked up. The 2 keyboards let us play Ultima as a multiplayer game. He and I each played half of the characters on the battle maps.

Wasn't just multiplayer...

[demonlapin]

The great thing about M.U.L.E. wasn't just the multiplayer aspects (which were fairly limited on the Commodore 64, the only version I played). It was that, like all the other really great building-up games (such as SimCity or Civilization), it had very simple rules that built a completely addictive game.

I probably played it against the computer far more than against human opponents, and it was still always a thrill.

(BTW: for those too young to have played it, the stated example of becoming Energy Czar was almost always an appallingly bad strategy, as energy doesn't keep from turn to turn; whenever possible, I always went for a balanced smithore-crystite portfolio, with some food production thrown in. I generally speculated on crystite as well.)

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[crumbz]

The Atari version had support for four players w/paddles. That was where the fun was at, out bidding and selling your friends. Man, I still have my copy, probably the only Atari 800 game I still own apart from Zork.

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and they weren't "robots" either. From the article:

"are a robot entrepreneur"

They were aliens. Each alien had a different pro and con. The fat alien had more food intake, etc.

And if you become a food Czar, in the advanced game, you OWNED.

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[Anonymous Coward]

I loved playing this game and I found the best way to get the highest score (100k+) by playing all four players.

Simply horde the smithore and sell it all in the last month. In a few days it will rise to the max price (255) and be more valuable than crystite.

And as long as you don't flood the market the price will stay high.

Ahh, the memories!

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[Fizzl]

You iivil Xiit0R!

I bet you have played quake 1 throught only with god mode too! :(

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[Frallyth]

Sad thing is that even using THAT stategy you were missing out on a ton of points. Whatever you keep on hand is worth more in points than it is on cash in Turn 12 -- that's why the computer players don't buy or sell anything that turn.

Keep it all and you can easily break 120k.

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[Jhon]

Actually, the Atari version had support for 4 players with joysticks -- on an 800 or an upgraded 400. You COULD do 3 players on newer machines (800xl, 1200xl, the xe's, etc.) with one joystick and two paddles by passing around the joystick during each players turn. The paddles were only used during the auction.

I've got a p166 that I use exclusivly for atari emulation which includes two game-port cards for a total of 4 joysticks. Every now and then I STILL play mule -- usually with my old atari crowd (some of which are 40+ years old now!). This game was and *IS* fun.

I do have one observation: every person I've tried to introduce to mule who is 25 and under just doesn't "get it". I don't think they can get past the graphics.

-jhon

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[QuackQuack]

Start out with Food/Energy. The computer players will invariably ignore the market for one or the other and focus on smithore. Then you can price gouge them out of all there money when there's a shortage, and your the only one who has any. Later in the game, I switch to mostly crystite.

Another strategy I've tried of late is "Real Estate Speculator". Don't produce a single thing. Just sell the plots you get for the highest price you can, or cancel the auction and try again later if the price isn't good enough. Also buy smithore and crystite low when the computer players are selling it, and sell high. I've actually won using this strategy, although it can backfire.

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hoarding it all isn't a good idea, since any units that you keep over 50 will spoil. And if you know about the adjacent plot bonus, you can easily have a few players producing more than 50 per turn, even if you are playing competitively, rather than flagrantly cheating!

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider ditching the P166 and grabbing a used Dreamcast and keyboard. There's a very nice Atari 800 emulator called Atari800DC that (despite the 0.75 version number) is extremely accurate and runs at full speed. And it's got support for all 4 of the Dreamcast's joysticks, which is terrific for M.U.L.E.

Sitting a bunch of people down in front of a living-room TV really helps with the "feel" of the game, and it makes it a lot more approachable to people who haven't played it before. You can even rename the disk image to AUTORUN.ATR and stick it in the root directory of the CD, and it'll auto-boot, so you won't have to mess around with the emulator's UI; just make sure your ATARI800DC.CFG file is set up to boot in Atari 800 mode instead of XL mode if you want 4-joystick support.

(Note to anyone who wants to try this: be warned that there are a number of bad dumps of the M.U.L.E. disk image out there that have scrambled text and graphics in some places. You'll want to try it on a PC-based emulator first before wasting a CD-R. If the sign on one of the shops is scrambled in the Tournament difficulty level, you've got one of the bad dumps.)

Re:Wasn't just multiplayer...

[bluGill]

I had a better way: I got one new/young kid to produce all the food and energy I needed, and spent all my resources of the mineing. You don't need much energy or food, and so long as the kid is honest (and gets the guy with the food bonus and builds in the valleys which are not minable but get a food bonus) you have plenty of food and energy, and can concentrate on the game.

It mught suck to be the kid, but I never was. The kid generally was too young to realize that he was being cheated, just happy to play with the big kids who had room for an extra joystick. :)

I remeber the planet IRATA

[IgD]

M.U.L.E. was a great game. I remember spending many an afternoon at my friends house playing this game on the C64 about 10-15 years ago. I liked it so much I purchased it for the original Nintendo. The Nintendo version never recaptured the original glory.

I find myself always searching for remakes of these classics like M.U.L.E., Mail Order Monsters, Star Flight etc. Eletronic Arts should remake those games. I'm sick of all these MMORPG's. There is something to be said about the games you could play in an hour and be done with.

BTW, IRATA spelled backwards is ATARI!

Re:I remeber the planet IRATA

[ackthpt]

One remake, or follow-up, I didn't care for was Impossible Mission II. The original Epyx game of Impossible Mission was downright amazing for the tiny piece of hardware and humble 3 voice synthesizer it employed very well. I used to finish the game on a regular basis and it was one of the very few I worked at bettering my score (less time to solve) at. The II version came out for the Amiga and was immediately a disappointment.

Re:I remeber the planet IRATA

[Mattster P.]

I find myself always searching for remakes of these classics like M.U.L.E.
I played tonns of M.U.L.E. on my C64 in my youth (along w/ Lords of Conquest) and played Traders as well when that came out (cool M.U.L.E.-type game that also had a robot battle sequence), if you are interested in games like M.U.L.E., check out Traders.

Re:I remeber the planet IRATA

[katsushiro]

Mail Order Monsters!!!!

I haven't even thought of that game in over a decade! It was one of my favorite games of all time on the C64 (along with M.U.L.E.).. Man, you have no idea how much I regret selling my old C64 when I was young and foolish. :P

I even remember having a GUI for the C64 with windows, mouse(joystick) support, opening different applications from menus, stuff like that, on the C64, long before Windows.. I remember it being called Geo-something, I think. The C64 really was an amazing machine. I miss it. :)

Re:I remeber the planet IRATA

[dillon_rinker]

G.E.O.S.

Graphical Environment Operating System.

Re:I remeber the planet IRATA

[eht]

Pictures and commentary on GEOS and many other old and new GUI's

Sadly...

[ackthpt]

Sadly... Dani[formerly Dan] Bunten died before a re-issue of M.U.L.E.

As I recall, this was referred to as Edu-Tainment, which fell out of favor when faced by the likes of first person shooters and one-on-one combat games. I still play M.U.L.E. on a 64 emulator and have hacked it various times over the past 15 years. I've had it play as many months as I like, usually by 18 you can see some actualy economic cycles develop, though in the c64 version there's some issues with the money cap. I don't recall which one, but one value rolls over at 32678, the other value does at 65536, which can make for some radical changes in ranking :-)

Still, it's one of my all time favorites. And it Dani was ahead of her time, then those who enjoyed the game, like I did, were also.

Re:Sadly...

[billh]

Can you give more information about the hacks? I would very much like to be able to play 18 or 24 rounds. Thanks.

Re:Sadly...

[Schnapple]

I think I remember reading an interview with her wherein EA was going to give M.U.L.E. the remake treatment, but they wanted to "modernize" it a bit, which apparently Bunten was OK with, except for weapons. EA wanted to add weapons to the game. Bunten was against the idea, it got deadlocked, and the idea died.

If you want to play M.U.L.E. online and you don't want to get Space HoRSE, it's a little known fact that in 1993 M.U.L.E. was ported to the Nintendo Entertainment System, and the ROM image is floating about. All you need is a NES EMU that does online multiplayer.

M.U.L.E. Clone

[Serra]

Here is a link to a pretty good M.U.L.E. clone named Space HoRSE. Not quite the old version, but you can try the free demo for nostalgia's sake.

M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[Jacek Poplawski]

M.U.L.E. is one of the best games ever.

It has very interesting rules: with other 3 players you land on planet Irata (read backwards!) and start colonize it. Every turn you get and buy new plots, then put artificial mule on it. You not only decide what to produce, but also set price for buy/sell. There is true economy there!

Please notice year this game was released. Please notice hardware it runs - just 64KB of RAM! It's extremely playable and contains multiplayer support (wihout net of course). I don't know _any_ good clone of that game.

To be honest I started playing with Atari800 code, to play M.U.L.E. with my girlfriend (two joysticks support!).

M.U.L.E. is just perfect. Like NetHack or DOOM.

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[ackthpt]

The theme to M.U.L.E. was also very catchy, and garnered some award(s). I still find myself humming it from time to time.

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[TopShelf]

Please notice year this game was released. Please notice hardware it runs - just 64KB of RAM!

Hey, back then that was a decent amount of memory - my Atari 400 came with 8K, and it cost $200 and two weeks in the shop to go all the way up to 16K. It just goes to show how importance elegance of code used to be...

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[thelexx]

"Please notice hardware it runs - just 64KB of RAM!"

Just for the sake of pointing it out, if you're referring to the C64, it only had 32k of ram. The other 32k was the os/basic interpreter in rom. IIRC.

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[davidhan]

The Salon article mentions that the Atari computer version had 4 joystick support!

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[Thud457]

Bah!

I had an Atari 800xl with 256k of memory! (gotta love that bank-switching hack OOOOOHHHHHHH YEEEEEEAH!)

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[LucVdB]

Wrong, the C64 has 64K of RAM. All the other stuff (IO, screen, BASIC) is mapped into this space but the RAM is accessible if you switch banks. For example, no games to speak of use BASIC, so the first thing you do is bank switch that 8K ROM space to expose 8K of RAM.
E.g. see this reference page.

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[IvyMike]

For example, no games to speak of use BASIC

What? Telengard was written in Basic; I remember one of my first true hacker moments was discovering that if you saved and the tape drive was unplugged, the program would crash to the basic prompt, and you would be able to change the code. (Exp = Exp * 100 was a popular mod to add after killing a monster).

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[QuackQuack]

MULE ran on an Atari 800, so it only needed 48K RAM!

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[twalk]

Yup. The first ataris (400/800) had 4 joystick ports, and they ripped out 2 of them in the later models. (You Bastards!)

There were several early games like MULE that used all 4 joysticks, but these pretty much disappeared when the 800XLs were massed produced.

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you mean your obese and hideous lizard of a girlfriend (obviously the only type of girl whose ego would have been broken down enough to allow herself to be with any Slashdotter)?

Re:M.U.L.E. is just perfect

[Anonymous Coward]

Also Pirates (at least c64 version) was written in BASIC. It probably had assembly language routines to speed things up, though.

Wow

[Hatechall]

"If you're a hacker of a certain age">

Wow, talk about covering all your bases! It reads like my Humanities short answer essay responses.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, talk about covering all your bases!

Well, they belong to us, anyway...

Can't get it working...

[Pedrito]

I was recently trying to get M.U.L.E. to work on my Atari emulator, but ran into problems. I didn't have any interest in the game when I had Ataris in the old days, and now that I'm interested, I can't get it to run in the emulator. ARGH.

Re:Can't get it working...

[Jacek Poplawski]

I was recently trying to get M.U.L.E. to work on my Atari emulator

M.U.L.E. works without any problems on Atari800.

Re:Can't get it working...

[ip_vjl]

Make sure to boot the virtual system without the BASIC cartridge installed (or emulate the XL/XE with basic disabled)

Otherwise, I've run in Atari800Win Plus without problems.

Re:Can't get it working...

[QuackQuack]

With some versions of atari800, you need to use "xl" or "xe" mode. If you try to use the 800 mode, the emulator will sense a phantom third joystick, and this will make it unplayable.

hey now

[xao gypsie]

most enjoyable when they involved social interactions rather than just flashy single-player action and graphics."

hey now, lets not get too radical....flashy anything is always wonderful....esp metal objects and single player games with crazy graphics.
xao

Social interaction?

[obotics]

she insisted that games would be most enjoyable when they involved social interactions rather than just flashy single-player action and graphics.

I have always found this type of game to be rather odd. Isn't social interaction what you are supposed to be doing in real life? Why would you want to play a game of what you do in real life? Now blowing up aliens or shooting up Nazis... that is cool, because you can't do it in everyday reality.

Re:Social interaction?

[CrazyJoel]

You might as well say the same thing about board games or DnD.

Some of the best times I had with my friends were playing poker or Risk.

Re:Social interaction?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that is so true. All of those fools who waste time playing The Sims... isn't the stuff you do in that game what you do with real people??? hmm... if i wanted to go to a movie, i would go to the frickin movie... not go to a movie as a character on a computer!

Re:Social interaction?

[anonymous loser]

I have always found this type of game to be rather odd. Isn't social interaction what you are supposed to be doing in real life? Why would you want to play a game of what you do in real life?

Haven't you ever played any board games, like Monopoly, Pictionary, Scattergories, etc.? They are all about social interaction, and that's why people play them. The game is just a medium to facilitate social interaction in interesting ways, just like staff meetings facilitate social interaction in abysmally boring ways. Saying that it's what you already do in real life is oversimplifying things, unless of course the game is called "post on slashdot".

Re:Social interaction?

[gilroy]

Blockquoth the poster:

Isn't social interaction what you are supposed to be doing in real life? Why would you want to play a game of what you do in real life?

Yeah. It's almost as silly as programming physical sports (baseball, football) into the computer... oh, wait.

The point is, social games on the computer allow interaction of a different and varied type. Your question is something like, "I can buy real estate in real life -- why would I ever play Monopoly?"

Re:Social interaction?

[Anonymous Coward]

you all missed the point in responding to this guy..

video games ARE a part of real life now..

Re:Social interaction?

[Doomdark]

I have always found this type of game to be rather odd. Isn't social interaction what you are supposed to be doing in real life?

No, not ONLY in real life. If you have ever played MUDs, the exotic combination of non-real world and 'real' characters (as in played by real people more or less acting as if they were not) is the killer substance that gets you hooked.

Also consider "but you can interact socially in real life" aspect a bit; wouldn't it be interesting if, unlike in Real World, you could actually tell your boss exactly what you think about him/her, act in totally different manner you otherwise do (without burning bridges in your real life)... Thus, "doing something you just can't do otherwise" is definitely not unique aspect of combat games or simulators. Rather, it (often referred to as role-playing) is one of main attractions of (massively) multi-player games.

And like many people have pointed out, social interaction need not just be talking and such; tactics and communication in otherwise boring 1st person shoot-em-ups also counts as form of social interaction.

Re:Social interaction?

[Jack Zombie]

Some of the best times I had with my friends were playing poker or Risk.

You really hated your friends, didn't you?

Re:Social interaction?

[pyrrho]

poker and Risk and both fun.

Reason why I liked M.U.L.E.

[Tikiman]

One reason I liked M.U.L.E. was because the goal of the game was ambiguous. You could be a nice guy and sell food and energy at reasonable prices, or you could a ruthless jerk, screwing everyone by hoarding smitore and buying M.U.L.E.'s to just let them go. It was awesome!

Also if anyone is interested, see this text preservation of the M.U.L.E. Manual, particularly the text on the back cover, and see the cover art here. Hilarious!

Re:Reason why I liked M.U.L.E.

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the text on the back cover? It's mostly unreadable on the graphic there.

Why won't this wig come off!

[Joe the Lesser]

(With all due respect)

That's not a game developer chick! That's a man baby!

Sex change operation

[tmark]

In a profile of a person who had undergone a sex-change operation, you would think they would pay more than passing notice to it. It might not mean much in terms of the *ames* that s/he designed, but what more could define this *person* than his/her struggling with this issue ? Heck, even the book "High Score" dealt with the issue more. I'm just shocked that a profile wouldn't cover one of the more interesting points of a person's life. Imagine a book about Clinton's presidency which only mentions Monica-gate in a few paragraphs.

Re:Sex change operation

[n0rm]

I don't think this is a problem at all. The article was about her impact on early game development, not her identity.

Re:Sex change operation

[ohboy-sleep]

When I read the article this morning I was glad that it wasn't five pages on her struggle with a sex change. The thing that endeared her to me and to many other people was that she created a game that was a fun part of our childhood. A number of people have had sex changes but what makes her stand out is her game, M.U.L.E., and the impact on the video game industry of the time.

Re:Sex change operation

[kin_korn_karn]

This article is for those who care more about a person's work than their crotch, and as such clearly doesn't apply to you. Please move along.

Re:Sex change operation

[Saige]

They mention in a couple times, but never in depth. I think they want to focus on Dani's game creation - after all, this article was far from a complete bio. Focusing on her transsexuality would have been way too far along the lines of "sensationalism" for the article.

Besides, the "sensationalism" of transsexuality has, for the most part, faded into the past, the realm of 80's and 90's talk shows. While a lot of people are still unfamiliar with the details, the idea of it happening has long been mainstreamed. Heck, most places a geek can work that has a substantial number of programmers probably has a transsexual among them - often without any of the cow-orkers knowing about it.

Re:Sex change operation

[Anonymous Coward]

I met with Dan and Dani and, while we were not close friends, I really didn't think the whole gender issue was a big deal. She was a woman born in a man's body. She fixed the problem and was much happier because of it.

She knew how to write great games, and that was what I want to know about.

Re:Sex change operation

[Osty]

If you're interested in what a transsexual deals with during his/her time of change, you should check out the new HBO movie Normal. I caught it Sunday night (on HBOHD, even!), and it was pretty damn good.

As a side note, they got Central Illinois pretty dead on, though there was mention that the story was set in DeKalb county -- definitely not Central Illinois. The setting of the story (not the story itself) was nostalgic for me because of that. And the guy worked for Case/International! Damn, I remember back when Case was Case with the orange and white tractors, and International was the red tractor company. Ah, just ignore this paragraph.

Re:Sex change operation

[RavenDuck]

It seems that the biggest issue with the sex reassignment is the confusing use of pronouns in the story. In one paragraph on the second page they refer to Bunten as both "he" and "she", which is very confusing. It's especially confusing that they use "he" when discussing Bunten's earler life, and "she" when discussing her (see, now even I've done it) later life.

Re:Sex change operation

[3waygeek]

Salon disagrees with you about Normal. The review's author, herself the daughter of a transsexual father, points out several flaws in the presentation.

Re:Sex change operation

[Futaba-chan]

In a profile of a person who had undergone a sex-change operation, you would think they would pay more than passing notice to it.

The article got it just right -- it didn't try to hide the fact that Dani had transitioned, but it didn't make it the central fact, either. Which is a Good Thing, as there's much more to a person than just the fact of having had SRS or not.

Dani would have been the first to tell you that, too -- she had a very negative view of her transition, and posted an article on her web site (which didn't make it onto her memorial site) advising people considering transition not to. I disagree with her perspective on that (stop for a moment and parse the name "Futaba-chan" :-)), but there's a lot more to being trans than just transition.

BTW, she changed her last name to "Berry" when she transitioned.

Re:Sex change operation

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the are quite a few of us in the tech field, especially programming. At a local support group, I once counted half the members as being in some type of high-tech work. I think the "we value your brains more than how you look or what you wear" values of most (but, alas, not all) tech companies helps. And, for the most part, we're not "out", since (as seen in many of the other posts to this very article) bigotry is still rampant.

And I agree, the article was well written. I'm sure she'd like to be remembered as a game designer who happened to be a transsexual woman, rather than "that TS who wrote games".

Re:Sex change operation

[Osty]

Salon [salon.com] disagrees with you about Normal. The review's author, herself the daughter of a transsexual father, points out several flaws in the presentation.

I'm sure they do, but as the article on Salon is premium content, I'll never find out how. (No, I'm not going to turn on cookies, and no I'm not going to sit through a 15 second flash ad, and no I'm not going to give them my credit card for the free 7-day trial.) However, big deal. Not being a transsexual, and not knowing anyone who is, I can't tell you how accurate the movie was. What I can tell you is that it was entertaining, and the Central Illinois setting was fairly genuine.

I enjoyed the movie. So sue me.

Re:Sex change operation

[CaseyB]

In other words, you're looking for typical sensational shlock journalism. Thank god you ignorant twits haven't completely overwhelmed the publishing industry yet, and there's still room for intelligent, insightful writing.

Re:Sex change operation

[Allison Geode]

"but there's a lot more to being trans than just transition." I know that from personal experience as well, as someone trying to transition myself. personally, its not the easiest choice I've had to make (the choice being to attempt to do as much as I can to "be myself", or to be utterly miserable.) and I see it everyday. though it is NOT what defines me: i do NOT live a "transgendered" lifestyle: i live a "geek" and "gamer" lifestyle... being transgendered is just one more struggle in an already difficult life.

Re:Sex change operation

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you just keep on thinking you're so high and mighty, above everyone else...

Re:Sex change operation

[Twiddle]

Well it is kinda interesting. Legendary programer is a transexual. It is pretty cool kinda. A tortured artist of sorts.

Re:Sex change operation

[Anonymous Coward]

exactly... Dan Bunten wasn't interesting because he changed to Dani Bunten, big deal. A little interesting, maybe, but in this day and age.

I saw that 1997 talk at CDGC.

Re:Sex change operation

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I haven't seen the movie but I saw the fictional town of Normal referred to as a small town. The real Normal is a good sized college town right next to another good sized college town. Total population of the two towns is over 100000.

As for the tractors, is nothing sacred anymore about tractor colors? There are orange ones, red ones and green ones and never shall they meet. :-)

I hope HBO releases the movie on DVD so I can see it. Being a tg person who lives in Central Illinois gives a special interest in it.

Re:Sex change operation

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Futaba-kun Change, right? And of course, Otakuworld itself has a couple of TG folk among it's founders. Scratch a 20 or 30 something TG computer geek, find an otaku.

It's also funny to visit a TG oriented irc channel and realize that almost all of the people in there are running Linux. It gets even better when the topic turns to tech topics like C, Apache, etc.

I once joked in such a room that one would be easily able to recruit the employees of an entire computer company just by visiting the tg IRC channels.

Re:Sex change operation

[Osty]

I haven't seen the movie but I saw the fictional town of Normal referred to as a small town. The real Normal is a good sized college town right next to another good sized college town. Total population of the two towns is over 100000.

Normal is the title of the movie, not the town (though it would be a valid mistake to make, given that Normal is a city in central Illinois). No, the town was something like Earlsville, set in DeKalb county (northern Illinois, has Northern Illinois University up there).

As for the tractors, is nothing sacred anymore about tractor colors? There are orange ones, red ones and green ones and never shall they meet.

Bah. Case did orange and white back in the day (up until the late 80s or early 90s, at least). Then they merged with International to form Case/IH, and they got rid of the orange and white and stuck with IH's red. John Deere has always been green, but Versatile switched to blue from yellow/red/black when they were bought by Ford. The only people making orange tractors any more (that I know of, and not counting Cat's yellow) is Kubota, who make lawn tractors and other small tractors. (my information may not be 100% correct, but it's pretty close I think.)

I hope HBO releases the movie on DVD so I can see it. Being a tg person who lives in Central Illinois gives a special interest in it.

HBO has a good history of releasing stuff on DVD (Sopranos, Oz, Sex and the City, Six Feet Under, Band of Brothers, etc), so if this movie gets a good reaction I'm sure it'll get a DVD release. I enjoyed it for the setting (even more so because I grew up in such a small town), but I don't know how you'll react to the portrayal of a tg m2f. That's something that's beyond my own experience, so I can't say if it was a good or bad representation.

Re:Sex change operation

[Anonymous Coward]

Not being a transsexual, and not knowing anyone who is

Don't you mean that you don't know that you know anyone who is?

There's a lot of us around, and most people don't realise it.

Re:Sex change operation

[Osty]

Don't you mean that you don't know that you know anyone who is?

I'm sure there are more tg people around us than we think, but there's still not that many. I'd be surprised if there were more than a few hundred thousand tgs in the US (and that's probably a high guess). So, you're right, I don't know that I know of anybody, but I think I could say with 95% confidence that I don't know any transgendered people. Not that knowing any would be a bad thing, just that I'm pretty sure I don't.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

From one dead transsexual to another...

[$$$exy Gwen Araujo]

it's nice to see Dani getting some recognition nowadays.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have any respect?

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

You sick sick motherfucker

It wouldn't be anywhere near as sick (although still inappropriate)if it wasn't a play on the dubious probable femaleness of $$$$$exyGal.

That and the shemale porn links...

Gwen was a girl. Fuck you, you sick sack of shit.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[$$$exy Gwen Araujo]

Please, it's "sick sick fatherfucker".

Anyway, it's not a play on $$$$$exyGal, it's a play on her imitator $$$exy Gwen Stefani. I just thought the world would be a better place if people knew who Gwen Araujo was. If they did, perhaps they'd be a bit more tolerant of girls like me.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Allison Geode]

that isn't the way to achieve tolerance. please, just go away: you're only damaging the credibility of the rest of us.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

Problems with your definition of "tolerance" aside...

All I've seen so far in reading about the "transgendered" are their stuggles. There wouldn't _be_ much of a struggle for a transgendered person if people would actually accept the way they were born.

My 2 cents. Flame away...

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

There wouldn't _be_ much of a struggle for a transgendered person if people would actually accept the way they were born.

There are, no doubt, some "transgendered" people who look to transition to take their mind off other troubles, who think that "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". However, you'll find most true transgendered people have already struggled for a huge chunk of their lives to fit in to their birth gender. And, while we may complain about the struggles we have during and after transition, those struggles are lesser, and at least are with outside forces (i.e. other people) rather than struggling against our own feelings and "being".

I hope this was educational rather than a flame, but it's late and I'm tired.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was given an old 486 PC. I accepted the fact, but I still wanted an upgrade...

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're only reading about those of us who are public.

Most of us transition, get it over and done with, and in a couple of years you have absolutely no clue how we were born.

You're making the simple assumption that what you see is the whole story. No doubt you interact quite often with a couple of transsexual people, male or female. You just don't know who.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Goth Biker Babe]

Using the same logic, someone born with a hole in the heart, shouldn't bother with all that troublesome surgery and just be happy with their lot.

The trouble with gender dysphoria is really only another gender dysphoric person can actually understand the condition. Some try to accept the way they were born and succeed but live unhappy lives, others realise that there really is no option but to transition and then live happy and fulfilled lives.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

Using the same logic, someone born with a hole in the heart, shouldn't bother with all that troublesome surgery and just be happy with their lot.

This isn't exactly proving your point. This is either life threatning or will be. Transgenderism isn't life threatning.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Goth Biker Babe]

Tell that to all the dead transsexuals who suffered with depression so much they killed themselves. It *is* life threatening and after 50 years surgery rather than psychiatry is still the most effective treatment.

Re:From one dead transsexual to another...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the point - it is. For most transsexuals, the pain of being in the wrong body has only two resolutions - transition or suicide.

Or are you suggesting someone in chronic pain should just grin and bear it, rather than try and get treatment?

M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[DennisZeMenace]

For the nostalgic :

http://www.denisleroy.com/atari/mp3/Mule.mp3

Re:M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[khendron]

Thank you thank you thank you for that link. I always remember loving the music as a kid, but couldn't actually remember the music.

That brought it all flooding back. :-)

Re:M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[TaliesinWI]

The tonality is right, but it seems a little on the slow side, tempo-wise. Or maybe because I had a 800XL versus a 400/800 that the sound played a little faster? Anyone care to comment?

Re:M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[DennisZeMenace]

I created the MP3 by using a patch i wrote for the atari800 emulator. Probably the emulation ran in PAL mode (the default), which is 50hz. That might explain the somewhat slower music. That's however exacly how it sounds on a PAL Atari800xl.

DZM

Re:M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[Anonymous Coward]

This page has a nifty re-mix that is a little closer to the original:

http://www.planetz.net/midi/games/c64/c64.shtml

Thanks for the effort though!

Re:M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[c64cryptoboy]

I still play the M.U.L.E. theme music on my piano on a semi-regular basis.

For great M.U.L.E. theme remixes, check out the MP3 collection at:

http://www.eidolons-inn.de/mule/muledown.htm

They even have an all vocal arrangement: http://eidolon.dnsalias.net/mulefiles/MayBeBop_Mul e.zip

Re:M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[rjung2k]

I took DennisZeMenace's MP3, then ran it through Apple's Quicktime Pro and speeded it up by 5/6ths (50 MHz vs. 60 MHz). The new MP3 sounds much closer to the original in tempo, though it's slightly higher pitched. Send me email at rjung@mac.com if you want a copy.

Re:M.U.L.E. had the best music ever

[Bostik]

If you loved the original, you should enjoy the jungle aerobics remix as well. RKO has a huge selection of different remixes of nostalgic tunes. I just had to put the aforementioned remix on...

For those in a hurry: this is the page you want to see. Get the remix from the page - I'm not going to put a direct link to the MP3 file on /.

I'm dating myself by saying this

[reverendG]

But my favorite computer game, before I really got into computers, was leisure suit larry.

Guess I had a lot of growing up to do.

I'll get around to it someday. Until then, don't forget to buy condoms before you go to the hooker! Ken sent me!

Re:I'm dating myself by saying this

[damiangerous]

Yep, Leisure Suit Larry players generally were "dating themselves." If that's what you want to call it. :)

Re:I'm dating myself by saying this

[Anonymous Coward]

Ironically, so could Dani.

Re:I'm dating myself by saying this

[Anonymous Coward]

Al Lowe was also in online gaming early, having written much of the code for Sierra's "The Sierra Network" (aka TSN) online gaming service ~1990.

Re:I'm dating myself by saying this

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how many naugas they had to kill to make that?

CommandHQ

[Captain Morgan]

I'm still hoping someone will release the source code for this game or that someone will make a port of it to a recent os. Adding networking support over TCP wouldn't be all that difficult.

Re:CommandHQ

[MisterFancypants]

Adding networking support over TCP wouldn't be all that difficult.

Maybe not, but porting it up from 6502 assembly language to something portable would be a lot of work.

Re:CommandHQ

[Qrlx]

Why not just write a 6502 virtual machine in Java?

Re:CommandHQ

[YetAnotherAnonymousC]

assuming the parent meant CommandHQ, not mule, there is an intel version.

as for the TCP support, that would definitely be cool. I wonder if there's a general fake-modem-terminal-over-tcp-ip drive. you'd think there would be somewhere. anybody know?

Re:CommandHQ

[Dangrdav]

Game already playable over internet with version 2,3 patch. Also global conquest 4way and new WinGC due out soon

Civilization is to MULE as MULE is to...

[brunnock]

Hammurabi!

I liked Myst a lot more than most games...

[Trolling4Dollars]

I think the preference in game type has a lot more to do with personality as opposed to what is the "best" kind of game. Personally, I don't like games like the Sims, Starcraft or Black & White. To me, the focus of the game seems to be a power grab, and that's just not me. There is nothing in my psyche that gives me any desire for power, real or imagined. However, I love a good story. That's why I think I liked Myst so much. There was a lot of rich detail in the graphics which enhanced the mystery of what happened in that space. To me, games like Myst, Riven, Exile and Lighthouse are the perfect escape. You get to immerse yourself into another world so removed from your own that you forget where you are. Turn down the lights and put on some headphones and it's almost complete. To an extent, that's also why I like the Quake series and the UT series. The thing is, I like them for the wrong reasons. I am a lot less interested in getting lots of "gibs" or scoring highly. What interests me more is the beauty of some of the environments, especially in all of the Unreal games. I basically play just to take a look around the next level and kind of pretend that I am really there. If someone makes a Myst-like environment for the first "holodeck"-like systems, I will be an addict.

Keep this in mind though: this is MY preference for a game. I am not saying that the kind of games I like are the "best" kind. The mistake that some people make is that think what they like has got to be likeable because it's "the best". They completely forget all other possible opinions.

Re:I liked Myst a lot more than most games...

[wilhelm]

Ah yes, I remember the first time I ever saw Myst. One of my buddies had been playing, and he was having trouble getting the rocket ship to move. He called me up for help (I'm cursed with perfect pitch), and I was immediately hooked. The immersion in the world was the most compelling part of the game; you can truly lose contact with the real world (and definitely real time) with games like this.

I'm curious if RealMyst was as good as I think it could/should have been, as I haven't played it (don't run windoze). Anybody have any comments?

I also really like going to another world in the movies. Stargate, Mad Max, Tron, Blade Runner, Dune (movie and miniseries), Children of Dune, and even the horrid Waterworld all had fantastic worlds, even if, in a couple cases, the stories left a bit to be desired.

Command HQ

[Pasc]

Dan was also behind one of the greatest games of all time, Command HQ. It is definitely an ancestor of modern RTS games.

Oddly enough I had a hankering for classic games this past weekend and downloaded Command HQ (abandonware) and played a few games of it on Sunday. (I bought this game back in its prime and I still have the manuals, but the media is missing.) If only I could play it over the Internet...

Re:Command HQ

[orcus]

I wonder what ever happened to this project to redo Command HQ

Link courtesy of the Wayback Machine - I guess it is time I retired this bookmark :-)

Re:Command HQ

[Dangrdav]

Game already playable over internet with version 2,3 patch. Also global conquest 4way and new WinGC due out soon..Here is a link http://www.concentric.net/~Dangrdav/GCsite/global_ conquest30.htm

Information for fans of M.U.L.E

[afflatus_com]

The M.U.L.E. scene is alive and well, even now many years after its release. Ah planet IRATA (which was Atari spelled backwards).

While there is no GameSpy planetmule.com website for M.U.L.E, I strongly recommend World of M.U.L.E as the best starting point.

The Strategies is insightful, giving the designer's own ways of beating their enemies.

For the diehards, there is screenshots of the long-lost sequels: namely the Deluxe Amiga version, as well as "Son of M.U.L.E." which Dani discontinued because of EA's desire to add guns and bombs to her creation.

Finally, is Dani's email letter to the site shortly before her death.

A brilliant creator, I wish she was still around making great works.

One of Dani's last published interviews

[Junks Jerzey]

right here.

M.U.L.E

[Anonymous Coward]

My favorite memory of MULE is the music of it. I used to boot my Atari and start MULE, and just let it run so I could listen to the themesong.

Catch teh Wumpus!!

Favorite M.U.L.E. bug

[rjstanford]

I don't remember which platform this was on, but I have fond memories of becoming a loan shark. You'd borrow small amounts of money until you got a runious interest rate, and then made a payment of somewhat more than you owed. The "banking" computer player would then become a debtor and would continue to make interest payments to you (officially, you were making negative payments to him). Since there was no logic for him to ever pay the loan off, it was a grand way of getting a healthy balance.

Ah, memories...

Re:Favorite M.U.L.E. bug

[ckd]

[...] made a payment of somewhat more than you owed. The "banking" computer player would then become a debtor and would continue to make interest payments to you (officially, you were making negative payments to him). Since there was no logic for him to ever pay the loan off, it was a grand way of getting a healthy balance.

There was a similar bug in Taipan for the Apple ][ -- overpay Elder Brother Wu, the loanshark, and all of a sudden his horrible loan interest rate works in your favor. You could easily get a "debt" into exponential notation, especially if you continued to "repay" him (which it would let you, since the debt was not equal to 0)....

Re:Favorite M.U.L.E. bug

[florin]

Uhm.. borrowing? Interest rate? *think* Are you sure you're talking about M.U.L.E.?

CS != SOCIAL?????

[Anonymous Coward]

but nobody can say Counter-Strike involves social interactions...

Why? No! Killing terrorist isn't social???

..ah.. these jokes are abused.. i still believe iraq has a-bombs... everyone have a nice day the day after tomorrow..

Trollerific

[Anonymous Coward]

That just MIGHT be, more shocking than Goatse.

You sick bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOTE: Salon is not dead

[smitty45]

They are doing fine.

Bah humbug to all of the people on ./ who have "predicted" their demise for the past 2 years.

Re:"she"?

[Anonymous Coward]

So is Wendy Carlos. Ever see Tron, or Clockwork Orange? Guess who's behind the music?

Certain Age?

[Deacon Jones]

If you're a hacker of a certain age, chances are you played M.U.L.E.

No, but I played Shamus!

(Atari 400 version, though)

Modem Wars!

[pumpkinheadgiant]

I must confess that I never played MULE in my com64 days, but I am very familiar with Bunten's work. My favorite of all time has to be Modem Wars. I lost many many hours to this game.

Commanding upwards of 30(?) independently-programmable robots across mountains and through forests while under the fog-of-war (no enemy sightings unless your units do the sighting) all in real time! Vaguely based on football metaphor, each side also had a ComCen unit, which was effectively your quarterback. To lose this unit was to lose the game. The Comcen could also launch massively destructive missles, or attempt to shoot down said missles.

All of this in real time, all over a 1200-baud modem. Wow!

Re:Modem Wars!

[leshert]

Modem Wars is often overlooked when people talk about multiplayer RTS games. So many people think that multiplayer RTS was invented by Warcraft or C and C...

I was lucky enough to have worked with Dani on the re-release of Modem Wars, which was named Warsport. Unfortunately, it's now second-generation abandonware. The company that made Warsport is out of business, and the game network for which Warsport was made is also gone (subsumed into GameSpy, which has no interest in supporting Warsport).

If you liked Modem Wars, here are a couple of screenshots from Warsport:

Formation Setup
Missile Mode
Repair Mode
End Game

Mule sounds like the grail to cell phone gaming

[teamhasnoi]

Play against others in a low system requirement game - social, fun, portable?

Cellphone makers take note.

Re:Mule sounds like the grail to cell phone gaming

[Anonymous Coward]

FAX
To: teamhasnoi
From: Cellphone maker

People don't like to think much anymore. M.U.L.E. is "hard".

Sincerely,
Mr. Cellphone

Re:Mule sounds like the grail to cell phone gaming

[NaturePhotog]

Having just been to the Mobile Game Developer's Conference the other week, I'd have to agree. And it fits some of the other requirements, too: easy to learn, fairly short games, for the casual player, and most importantly, a good game. Cellphone network latency might be a bit of an issue for those auction chases, but...

Cytron Masters also rocked

[mashie]

Any Apple ][ people out there with fond memories of Cytron Masters? It mas also two player simulatanous play (using the paddles) in which you had limited control over a robot army. It was simpler than M.U.L.E., but definitely fun. The first real-time strategy game I ever played...

Ahead of her time...

[Anonymous Coward]

HAHAHAHAHAHA Games have been enjoying "social interaction" since the dawn of er ..
games, and no I don't mean of the computer variety.

Re:"she"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess you never played River Raid on the 2600, then. It too was written by the owner of a vagina.

M.U.L.E ruled

[vgaphil]

I loved the music! I was only 7 at the time and I didn't really know how to play, but I loved the music!

Re:M.U.L.E. C64 Emulator Version.

[saynte]

Well, checking the page for SpaceHoRSE, it seems they've added various functionality (TCP/IP play, 3d cut scenes) if that's your thing. Mind you, I haven't checked on the status of the C64 emulation scene lately, but I recall most emulators needing to run at normal C64 speed (or has a 'turbo' type feature been added, a la zsnes?) so if you want the game to start up in under 10 minutes, a clone might be good ;)

I Loved M.U.L.E.

[Punk Walrus]

Let me share the love of this game. I got an Atari emulator for Win32 just FOR this game. Play the funky 4-channel music, and mine and work your way on planet Irata. A friend of mine had it, and we'd play for hours. I always beat him because he was so bad at money. I think I learned some of my first taste for business because of that game.

In the mid 1990s, I told people about it, and they acted like it never existed. But then again, some of these people didn't get into computing until Windows 3.1 or so. But luckily, the web came around, and I was able to get an emulator.

Now if I could get Mail Order Monster again? I'd be all set.

Re:I Loved M.U.L.E.

[bmorton]

Play the funky 4-channel music, and mine and work your way on planet Irata.

This deserves to be modded up simply because the poster didn't not that Irata was Atari spelled backwards.

-B

ah.. the golden age..

[merc_sa]

trying to explain the genius of M.U.L.E today is like trying to explain the genius of greek comedies
and tragedies..

The comic and quirkiness of M.U.L.E was unequaled until Full Throttle. The child-like simplicity and
the complex interactions was unequalled until Tetris.
The joy of scalping your friends for 150 per unit for energy and food, and the sorrow of pirates
snatching your hard earned crystite will never be equalled.

I will never have fonder memories of games than that those of M.U.L.E and Archon.. Even after all
the computers I've ever owned, the Atari800 will forever hold a special place in my heart because
of those two games..

Rest In Peace, Dani. Your foresight and genius was and still is unparalleled, and your
humanity will continue to inspire us.

M.U.L.E.!

[QuackQuack]

One of the few 8-bit games I still enjoy today. It would be great if we had an emulator that supported four joysticks so the game could be played the way it was meant to be.

Re:"she"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever see Tron, or Clockwork Orange? Guess who's behind the music?

Can't say I remember any music from those two films. But I do remember a lot of music from other movies, so, from my experience at least, W. Carlos must be an insignificant composer. The same can be said of D. Bunten. Although he did some good games that made him famous, can you remember any game she made after the sex change?

hey!

[Anonymous Coward]

wouldn't take the story when I submitted it last night, ya bastards.

M.U.L.E. was very cool sounding too

[ToasterTester]

I remember playing M.U.L.E. on an old Apple II and besides a very cool game I remeber it being one of the first to have a music-like sounds. Most games before then had mind-numbing bleebs or short childish sequences. But M.U.L.E. had kind of a disco beat techno sounding theme running in background. By todays standards it is boring, but back in 1983 it was way cool compared to PacMac bleeps and borks.

Sex change operation - archaic

[jamiefaye]

The correct term these days is "Gender Reassignment Surgery". Not everyone who undertakes a gender transition has this done.

I know of over 20 transsexual game designers. It is like gays in the floral industry. Dani was the best of us all.

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[Anonymous Coward]

I know of over 20 transsexual game designers.

You may be on to something. I've worked for about 18 years as a programmer (8 before transition, 10 after), mostly doing network, multimedia, and embedded systems software. Is it a coincidence that the only program I've written that made it to store shelves is a game? Hmmm... :-)

You've given me food for thought. :-)

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[Anonymous Coward]

The correct term these days is "Gender Reassignment Surgery". Not everyone who undertakes a gender transition has this done.

I could have sworn that on her web pages (before she passed on) she had a bit of a diatribe about well-meaning psychiatrists (attempting to be supportive) recommending gender reassignment surgery too often. She was not saying the surgery was bad of course, just that it was a big change that no one should be rushed into. However, I can't find it in the copy of her web pages at the memorial site, so maybe it's just my defective memory?

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[Psykechan]

hero_worship_mode

I'd like to see them do a piece on the great GORF designer!

/hero_worship_mode

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[Futaba-chan]

I know of over 20 transsexual game designers. It is like gays in the floral industry.

More generally, trans women in the computer industry in general are enough of a stereotype that my circle of friends uses "tall women with laptops" as the trans equivalent of "women in comfortable shoes." And if you erased all of the code (and other contributions such as VLSI design methods) written by trans women, the economy would abruptly grind to a halt. More so than it already has, I mean.... :-)

(But you knew that already. *wave* Hi, Jamie! :-))

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[pyrrho]

no way, really?

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[VeronicaMoonlit]

What is it about computing that seems to attract TG folk? It does seem similar to " gay florists" in a way. Do you have any opinions on the matter?

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[AnnaBlack]

Perhaps it's the sheer intelligence and expertise that TG folk have :) Well, on a less self-congratulatory level, one could argue that those TGs in the IT trades are more likely to be in touch with other TGs online. Being CD/TV or TS can be lonely, and it's not like you can easily spot others in the street, so online is where many friendships form. Anna

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[Goth Biker Babe]

It's not just the games industry. It's the same in the embedded world. I suppose it's because we were all 8 bit hackers, locked in our bedrooms, hiding from the world. The we bought modems, found others like ourselves and how to deal with our feelings, went out and got sorted.

Hi Jamie!

Re:Sex change operation - archaic

[jamiefaye]

Dani did express regrets about GRS. Her writings on this are a major reason I am taking far longer than the one year minimum to make up my mind.

People unhappy with their GRS rarely let others know they blew it. Dani's courage in writing about it is extraordinary.

-- Jamie

Writer's Attitude

[Flamerule]

Was anyone else disturbed by a demeaning and negative tone from the article's writer toward modern games and gamers? I don't think he's ever played any computer games at all.

It begins at the end of the first page, with "But her predictions and passionate beliefs have been lost in the glitz, megahertz and adrenaline of modern gaming." This line makes me think the author just needed an "angle" to make the story interesting, and the one he chose was "Bunten battles the monolithic Orwellian forces of modern game publishing".

Here's some more, from the second page:

Most of the above genres are extinct today. Instead, the industry has narrowed its focus to just a few, mostly violent, niches, guaranteed to sell: the D&D franchise product, the first-person shooter, the real-time strategy game. Increasingly, Bunten found the gaming industry unreceptive to her ideas.

That's just total bullshit. The kind of mega-corp stagnation that companies like EA have brought to the games they produce does stifle innovation, but it's not a case of "we will only make these game genres". Saying there's a "D&D franchise product" niche is ludicrous; there have been maybe 5 of those in the past 5 years (Baldur's Gate, BGII, Planescape: Torment, Pool of Radiance, Neverwinter Nights, ... ?). Though there may be many first-person games, most of them aren't straight FPS. That doesn't encompass games like Half-Life, Counterstrike, Deus Ex, etc., that just happen to be played from the first person. And there are as many turn-based strategy games as there are RTS, and many of the turn-based ones are quite unique. Anyway, I'm not familiar with her history, but no game publisher would be unreceptive to a talented designer whose games had been fun, and sold sufficiently. No one cares what your ideas are, as long as they work.

More:

Unfortunately, a weird and wonderful multiplayer game about capitalistic robots was destined for trouble in the dawning mass market of late '80s solo games. With graphics-intensive games like Wing Commander, glitzy "bells and whistles" were becoming increasingly important in selling software.

Total bullshit. Wing Commander did well because it kicked ass. It was fun; that's all that mattered then, it's all that matters now. What the fuck is he talking about with "destined for trouble", anyway? The game was released; did it not sell well or something?

But now, formerly inconceivable amounts of computing power are splurged on the visceral thrill of the death match.

You've never played a deathmatch, so what would you know about it?

When was the last time a computer game felt like something other than a sequel or an incremental improvement? And how many young would-be Buntens are stuck coding yet another snowboarding game?

Jesus fucking christ. He wants recent great games? How about Deus Ex, Homeworld, Baldur's Gate, Half-Life? And if that snowboarding game is a good game, that's all that matters.

Re:Writer's Attitude

[CausticWindow]

I think he's got a point. Can't remember playing any really engaging or fun games since about Monkey Island 2 (if we're talking new commercial games, that is).

Seems to me that most games today are 90% presentation and only 10% game. And why, oh why, does it have to be three dimensional vector graphics over and over again?

Guess I'm just bitter since the very beautifully hand-drawn (2d mind you) Simon The Sorcerer 3 from Adventuresoft, were turned into Simon The Sorcerer 3D.. since the publisher wouldn't publish anything that wasn't 3D.

I really want to play Monkey 2 again too, but I still remember that LeChuck is Guybrush's brother.. when will I forget??

Re:Writer's Attitude

[arkanes]

You're looking at some of the wrong games, then. I got as into Deus Ex and Thief as I ever did into Loom or Ultima. (*adore Loom*)

Nothing inherently wrong with the FPS game format, or with great-looking 3d graphics. If Thief 3 looks as good as Unreal 2 or Unreal Tournament, I'll be one mighty happy man. (The whole time I was playing Unreal 2, I kept looking at these amazing lights and sounds and beautful textures and wishing that I was playing a game where they mattered)

You, sir, are a kindred spirit

[Ride-My-Rocket]

First of all, I didn't think so many people knew / loved MULE. My eldest sister -- 25 now -- and I used to bash on our C64 constantly, and MULE was our favorite game of all time. Still is..... I went out and bought her an NES with a 4-person adapter and a copy of MULE, and we play it whenever we're able to visit each other.

That being said, MOM and Starflight were games that I miss even now. Apparently there's an effort being made to bring Starflight 3 to light; and some guy did a bit of modernizing work on Mail Order Monsters, too.

Pioneering?

[uxo]

I never played M.U.L.E. (1983), but I did play Utopia (1982) on the Intellivision, which preceded it. Utopia was also an economic simulation.

Ack! Song...Stuck...In...Head...

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, now I have that most-excellent funky theme song stuck endlessly looping in my head.

Re:M.U.L.E. C64 Emulator Version.

[Patrick13]

Here's a meta link to the Commodore 64 version.

http://www.lemon64.com/games/details.php?ID=1558 [lemon64.com]

Why not just post this link? This is what the "net search" goes to:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2B%22m.u. l.e.%22+%2Bc64+%2Bdownload

MULE on the Dreamcast

[Anonymous Coward]

For those interested (probably a few), there is an Atari 800 emulator for the dreamcast and so if you have four controllers, you can have an experience that is pretty darn close to the original -- worth the effort.

Re:"she"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look up solipsism.
You know, there's some OK looking transexuals out there.
Look here

Castle Wolfenstein

[Kwil]

The origial was quite cool. Played it a lot back on the Apple //e.

Top down view, but you could sneak up on SS guards by hiding behind a wall while they walked by, kill them with your knife, then steal their uniform and walk brazenly through room after room of guards -- until you got challenged by another SS guard of course. Then you had to be lucky or had to start running/fighting.

Seven Cities of Gold

[Openadvocate]

Anyone remembering playing "Seven Cities of Gold"?
I liked that a lot. and if I remember correctly, they managed to do some nice floppy loading without interrupting the game too much. I tried to make it work on the emulator, but for some reason it would not boot. Perhaps the memory are best preserved that way :)

The MULE theme is the ringing tone on my cellphone

[CrystalFalcon]

I really don't think I need to say more than that.

To my disappointment though, nobody has recognized it in public spaces... I sort of had half-expected that.

MULE and Archon RULE

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt about it. Me and my brohter must have logged a few hundred hours playing those games on the C64. Eagerly awaiting sequels to both games....

Re:The MULE theme is the ringing tone on my cellph

[florin]

Would that happen to be the Nokia one that is up for download from World of M.U.L.E?

Umm.. There was only one Wizardy from the Edge..

[AltaMannen]

But I'd LOVE to see that one updated on the PS2, or gamecube for that matter. Exploratron with trap treasure chests! I think you're thinking of the Wizardry adventure games and not the action game.

Memories of Dani

[Gregg Williams]

Wow! This article--and everyone's posts--brings back the memories I have of M.U.L.E. and of its creator. I met Dan Bunten long before M.U.L.E., after he was gracious (and trusting) enough to send me an un-copy-protected version of Cytron Masters when my commercial copy of it refused to boot on my Apple II+. Of course, I was a big M.U.L.E. fan and spent many hours playing it with several friends on the Atari 800 computer. Years later, I bought a Commodore 64 emulator for my Macintosh just so I could play M.U.L.E. again.

Dan/Dani *was* ahead of her time, largely because of the lack of any technology that facilitated simultaneous multiplayer gaming. Not only did Dani have to invent the game, she also had to find some way to make the day's computers facilitate both input and output for multiple players simultaneously. Think about that! Networking in any form was unheard of, so the multiplayer output had to take place on *one* computer screen. And back then, the entire screen's resolution was minuscule. She did some very clever things to keep multiple players involved in the game at all times, which was quite a feat. In particular, I remember Dani complaining about how flaky the Commodore 64 was and how, after a certain amount of use, when a C64 started crapping out, the only solution was to go to the store and buy another one.

In the end, I think it was the limitations of the day's home-computer technology that kept multiplayer gaming from working for most people. The graphics of the day were just too blocky to entice the average person to sit in front of a computer screen for any length of time, and it didn't help that the programmer had *less than* 64 K of memory for both the program and its data. (M.U.L.E. ran in 32K on the Atari 800!)

As for Dani's gender change, she always remained a mystery to me on that. I only met her two or three times as Dani, and the awkwardness was just too great. I remember asking her (delicately) about her motivations for making the change, and her answer was so cryptic that I have never puzzled out what she meant by it. Still, she seemed to be settling into the role quite comfortably, although she felt that her gender change (plus its public nature within the games community) was hampering her search for a job in the industry.

I wish I knew more, and I would have, had it not been for her illness. I feel deeply that she didn't really get a chance to make her second "life" work, that the cancer overshadowed her new gender role just as she was getting started with it. I'm sorry she didn't get that second chance. I think the world is a lesser place because it didn't get a chance to find out who she would have become.

Re:Memories of Dani

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a shame that just being female does hinder your progress in some areas. If you are a transsexual woman it is even harder (despite the frequent occurence of gender changes within the technology industries). From discussions with my US friends, the US does seem a bit more problematical than the UK but generally has the kewler jobs. I have been lucky and I am judged purely on merit. It probably helps that I am not the first in my company.

As for Dani's games. I had a BBC when I was younger and so never player her games. My killer app was Elite on the Beeb (which I always felt would work well as a multi-player game). I do now a C64 in my house so I might get some and have a play.

Re:The MULE theme is the ringing tone on my cellph

[CrystalFalcon]

I don't have a Nokia, so, no... Hell, I didn't even know there was a World of M.U.L.E...?

Re:The MULE theme is the ringing tone on my cellph

[florin]

It's a fan site which got a mention in the Salon article and got linked by some posters here..

http://www.eidolons-inn.de/mule/muledown.htm

I was just curious cause I originally made the ringtune they have on there.. also used it for ages myself, not that anyone ever recognised it either.

Seven Cities of Gold

[StefanJ]

I liked MULE a lot, but this Bunten gem was my favorite.

When looking at a prototype for COLONIZATION at a trade show, I mentioned to the guy next to me that it looked like an update to Seven Cities. He said, yes, it was meant as a tribute/update. My first run-in with Sid Meier . . .

How much I love M.U.L.E...let me count the ways.

[Lusso62]

I have an Atari 800 (you know, the one with the 4 joystick ports) in my cube at work set up specifically to play one game: 4-Player M.U.L.E.

To keep things fair, I have 4 identical Wico "The Boss" joysticks so there can't be any whining after I kick everyone's ass.

We play every now and then... usually on Fridays after work. It's a total blast. One day, David Crane came in(you know who I'm talking about, he designed that game called Pitfall! and I guess some of the OS for the Atari) He was nice enough to autograph my Atari. Very cool. He works at Skyworks now. http://www.skyworks.com.

MULE is the perfect game... simple rules, challenging, complex and dynamic interactions and it wraps up in little over an hour. 4-player is the best and the hardest to master because the computer players tend to get a little predictable.

Overall, I'm a Crystite player... but Smithore can be fun if Mules get scarce. I also like to be self-sufficient, so I always have a least one River Valley food plot and extra energy to keep me going. Also, I buy all the land I can get my hands on! 9-12 plots of Crystite almost always maxes out! I will also screw you on energy and food if it betters my position. I stay in 2nd or 3rd place until the end to avoid "dickage"(the game's way of artifically leveling everybody out.)

I've been playing the board game Settlers of Catan lately, and there are a lot of similarities. check it out here. It's great!

Well, just wanted to confess my love for M.U.L.E. It was quite revolutionary for it's time, and I don't think there have been many games quite like it since.

If you haven't tried it, emulators might be ok, but the best in on the Atari 800. That was the way it was meant to be played!

Lusso62

Older articles about Dani

[savetz]

A 1985 interview with Dan from Antic magazine
A 1985 review of M.U.L.E. from Creative Computing

For a guy with a beard he turned out ok as a chick

[Call Me Black Cloud]

gallery

Brilliant designer...I still have my original playable copy of mule for the Atari 800 and my pirated version of 7 cities (sorry Dan...I buy all my games now though)

Global Conquest!

[Lieutenant_Dan]

That was such an amazing game! I remember going to Radioshack to buy "Global War" after seeing a review in CGM, I must have been drunk or something because I went home with "Global Conquest" which I thought was the right game.

Excellent, engrossing game. It was the first computer strategy game I ever played. I ended up making my friend a copy so we could over our 2400 baud modems. The cpu players could be a challenge, and it had so many modes of play.

I remember seeing MULE back on the Atari but I'd rather play Summer Games back then ...

Re:Global Conquest!

[Dangrdav]

Well Global Conquest Lives...here is info and screenshots of WinGC http://www.concentric.net/~Dangrdav/GCsite/global_ conquest30.htm

Robot Rascals

[Anonymous Coward]

Robot Rascals was a great game. It was a cross between a board game and a computer game. You had cards, a handful of players, and a interesting landscape to wander around in.

We played it only for a few weeks (getting a group together was an effort), but those days were amazingly fun. Wish there were more games like that now.

The cruelties of the game...

[databank]

So how many of you would pretend to sell your energy/food/minerals and then run away a fraction of a second before the timer run out?

Or buy up all the energy/food/minerals just so there would always be a shortage in the game?

Or stockpile a huge amount of energy/food/minerals (whatever your players were focusing on..) and then selling like crazy just to produce a huge surplus and make the prices drop like crazy?

I miss the good old Atari days...

[Anonymous Coward]

when EA made fun games, not flood of crappy sports games.

Dani's game's still being played and developed

[Dangrdav]

Command HQ is still being played. A version 2 and V3 came out allowing random maps to be created and internet play. Global Conquest (dani's last commerical game) now allows 4way play over the net and a new WinGC is nearing completition. We worked out a deal with dani years ago to redo the game in Windows. There is a very long story to tell about that . The project just sat for years since we had no budget and of course programers have gotta eat! We added new artwork (better then original thou nothing compared to commerical quality) and of course native internet play for 4 players. Here is a link with some screenshots http://www.concentric.net/~Dangrdav/GCsite/global_ conquest30.htm If anyone is interested in helping on the WinGC project let me know as there are plenty of loose ends left to tie up. There has been talk about redoing CHQ for Windows, I know who has the current rights and source code to make it happen if anyone is interested. Just drop me a note.

mule was hella fun

[atarione]

I played on my C128 and it was the best game I ever had for that computer. Many homework tasks were delayed while playing M.U.L.E.

And I thought

[Anonymous Coward]

most of MULE got merged into Emacs 20, which I've been using for many years. Based on this Slashdot discussion, I guess there are a lot more features that I wasn't aware of.

Re:How much?

[Anonymous Coward]

The erectile tissue from the penis and the testes are normally incinerate after a biopsy. The rest is turned inside out, and generally transmogrified to create the vulva, vagina, labia, clitoris, clitoral hood, etc..

You Mean Lynn Conway.

[svzurich]

Her homepage: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/conway.html Her story: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/LynnsStory. html Her bio: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/BioSketch.h tml

Re:You Mean Lynn Conway.

[svzurich]

Corrected due to forgetting to switch to plain text and preview.

Her homepage:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/ conway.html

Her story:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/Lyn nsStory. html

Her bio:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/BioSk etch.h tml

Unicorn Jelly

[svzurich]

The owners of Otakuworld also run Unicorn Jelly (http://www.unicornjelly.com), and there are a lot of people like me on their boards. A significant portion of us, including the owner and 2 of her spouses, are transsexual.

What is the name of GNU version of M.U.L.E. ?

[Anonymous Coward]

GNU Frontier.

Re:For a guy with a beard he turned out ok as a ch

[AnnaBlack]

Nice to see that her appearance is the factor by which you judge her. There are other reasons for transition you know! Anna

More information about Dan

[Anonymous Coward]

More information aboud Dan can be found here
http://www.emuunlim.com/doteaters/play4sta4. htm
or on the german mirror
http://www.8bit-museum.de/docs/play4sta4.h tm

It's Funny

[Lord_Of_The_Beer]

One of my roommates and I were having a discussion about video games, and I said that I do not play many computer games because they are crap now.

He got defensive and said, "You never played video games anyways"

So I said not now but I used too. They got boring on me.

I do play video games (Civ III, Sims, Sim City) and I can be quite addictive about it. (12 to 13 hours at a time).

But I did play a lot of these games. I was a "Seven Cities of Gold" addict; I never played much of Mule, never owned a copy.

So not wanting to play another rehash of The Bards Tale (or Doom or whatever) rehash, I am wondering if there are any games out there like Seven Cities & SM Civ that I have missed.

I was also a huge fan of Lemmings too.

M.U.L.E. on the big screen baby!

[illumin8]

I have a modded XBox and got a copy of FrodoX, a C64 emulator. Now I can play M.U.L.E. in all it's 4 player goodness on my large screen TV in the living room.

This is truly the way god intended man to play M.U.L.E., and although the graphics are dated, the game play is great. I highly recommend playing it this way.

Does anyone know if there is an Atari 800 emulator for XBox? I bet the Atari version has better graphics and sound than the C64 version. I used to be a big C64 "warez d00d" back in the day so that's pretty much the platform I'm used to.

Re:Umm.. There was only one Wizardy from the Edge.

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

Gamefaqs has more info.
Yes, I'm talking about the RPG Wizardry series, not Nemesis. Never played that one so I can't speak to it.

Re:For a guy with a beard he turned out ok as a ch

[Call Me Black Cloud]

Are you insane? Oh wait, you're a guy who dresses as a woman...don't bother answering that question. What post were you reading?

If there was any "judgement" it was where I wrote, "Brilliant designer". There wasn't anything judgemental about my comment that he looked ok as a woman (unlike certain others, ahem).

Re:M.U.L.E. C64 Emulator Version.

[Cruciform]

Why not just post this link?

Actually, if he's counting on the laziness of people, he's preventing it from being slashdotted immediately.

That little extra bit of work would actually function as a deterrent. The attention span of web surfers is infinitis--- what was I saying?

Re:M.U.L.E. C64 Emulator Version.

[Patrick13]

Uhh. Don't think there's much chance of Google being slashdotted....

Re:M.U.L.E. C64 Emulator Version.

[Cruciform]

I was thinking of the highest results being hit like a serial bomber running down the list, but good point. :)

ask and ye shall receive

[Anonymous Coward]

http://web.externet.hu/sk/c64/games/s/s6.htm

Last Post!

[alpg]

One day the King decided that he would force all his subjects to tell the
truth. A gallows was erected in front of the city gates. A herald announced,
"Whoever would enter the city must first answer the truth to a question
which will be put to him." Nasrudin was first in line. The captain of the
guard asked him, "Where are you going? Tell the truth -- the alternative
is death by hanging."
"I am going," said Nasrudin, "to be hanged on that gallows."
"I don't believe you."
"Very well, if I have told a lie, then hang me!"
"But that would make it the truth!"
"Exactly," said Nasrudin, "your truth."

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...