Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft To Demo 'Palladium' At WinHEC
1010011010 writes "According to Microsoft Watch, Microsoft will be demonstrating Palladium (also known as 'Next-Generation Secure Computing Base') at WinHEC in May in New Orleans. The 'trusted root' is now called the 'Nexus' by Microsoft. Developers wishing to write 'Nexus-aware' applications will apparently have to pay a licensing fee to do so. The product manager for Palladium, Mario Juarez, says, 'It's important to note that nexus-aware applications will not hinder any apps or anything else running in the regular Windows environment.' I'm sure you can all hear the word 'yet' at the end of that sentence. There's talk of phasing in Palladium, starting with Longhorn Server in 2005. I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take. I, for one, am already planning to transition my company away from Microsoft software. Hopefully that won't get messed up by and dumb mandatory-palladium legislation from the Fritz types."
Let me be the first to point out the irony of someone called Juarez being in charge of an anti-piracy system.
Y'know.....seems that Microsoft wants more and more of your information every day. Makes me glad that I don't have to deal with them very much...I don't have anything to hide, but really....it's just tacky.
What a coincidence. I'm in WinHell!
All our bugs are belong to you!
Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance. God, how I love it. - Gen. George Patton
Oh, and it does the opposite of setting you free.
"I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take."
Tell them if they don't they'll be supporting terrorism.
Why yes I am paranoid! Thanks for asking!
After having bought MS Visual Studio C# .Net, not realising that the "Standard" version doesn't play with non MS databases, I can't wait for the day when my OS/Computer refuses to let me use MySQL via ODBC because the drivers aren't signed/Palladium compatiable. I'll be so happy to be secure and safe from subversive and dangerous open source technolgies.
One day I will boot up WinPalidumb and a ghostly image of Whoppie Goldberg will lure me to this place of pure happiness.
Of course, being cool as I am I will realize that it's all fake and as harsh as real life^H^Hnux is, that's where we belong...
And I will bring back William Shatner; possibly saving (enter)price(line)?
*ducks*
My life in the land of the rising sun.
I think right now, they are so unsure of where they are going with this that the show really doesn't matter. Since the testing began, i've seen rumors of home versions and the like. The final product will most likely dramatically change from what is shown at the show.
Who will use that $$oftware anyway?
I don't like the part about the fees. Palladium does seem to have one strong point in making its applications hard to exploit (even the badly-written ones).
So won't this hurt Linux and Open Source software in general? High fees would keep Microsoft's good competitors (Apache, for instance) away from Palladium, and then we'd have all the unbearable boasting about how IIS is more secure.
That would be a cheap trick... but one to expect.
starting in 2005? What are they going to be demoing exactly other than initial prototypes with some possible smoke and mirrors.
Didn't they bring out the 2003 server because of the longhorn delay?
--------
Free your mind.
And when Nexus gets to version 6, will it be physically and emotionally indistinguishable from a human being? Will we have to hire Blade Runners to keep Tyrell Corpo...I mean, Microsoft's crazed creations off earth?
Nexus v.6: I want more life, fucker.
Bill Gates: Sorry. Planned obsolescence is a bitch.
Only in slashdot are posts of solidarity modded at -1 Redundant, while posts of antagonism are modded as -1 Flamebait.
While the idea of the technology isn't really all that bad, I question the intent of Microsoft in creating Palladium. If the technology is adapted in its "pure" form, Microsoft will be able to determine what you can and cannot do on your own personal computer - and they will make consumers pay for this "technology." It would be like adding the extra "feature" to an automobile that you can drive only to certain places - and charging more for this "technology." Where can you go today?
I believe I can fly... I believe I can touch the skyyyy
Shut up ya fuckin hippie. Stay on topic or get the fuck out.
The demo doesn't BSOD like 98 did.
I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take
The government's already convinced people that loss of control in the name of "fighting evil" is wonderful, and that it should be accepted openly.
Hopefully people don't follow suit with Palladium, or pretty soon, the government will see that regulation of a person's own computer can be done easily and effectively.
solution: we all start using Linux (or in some cases, use Linux more) and move to Canada (or in some cases, stay there)
note: entire solution does not apply outside of US or Canada, your mileage may vary, see dealer for details, sweepstakes ends 11/05/72. Linux portion of solution applies to all humans, again, see dealer for details.
Longhorn knows all your secrets.
There has to be major anti-trust entanglements with Palladium. How the HELL did they trick the DoJ into believing Palladium is anything but a megalomaniacle attempt to control the software industry. Does the DoJ have to wait until after M$ seizes control before intervening?
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
That gives us about 2 yrs to get linux ready to take over. Can we? Because if not, it will be vary bad. This is our chance. Once people are tied into palladium, they're stuck.
Now MS can candidly tell consumers how they intend on outright controlling all of your data and even charge developers for the "privilage" of being able to conform.
I just can't see how so many pointy-hairs can examine Microsoft and it's products and decide that it would a good idea to spend so much money on it. Microsoft sales people are truly adept at their trade.
... Just sit back and wait and see what MS does. If you just take it for what it says now there isn't much of anything to go nuts over. Yes maybe something will come up that makes it Evil, though with something like this what one considers evil others consider good. If It turns out to be just as MS says it is going to be, what do you have to fear? You don't like the paying? sure that might not be so great, but then again this is most likely going to apply to major windows apps. You know the kind written by companies that people go out and buy. So adding a few cents to the price won't matter to anyone. I don't think anyone is going to go and pay to have there Hello World app 'Next-Generation Secure Computing Base' certified.
If your afraid of how it works or don't like it don't use it, don't use windows. With just what MS has said most all of what people go on about has no bases and is just stuff from tin foil hat people. Yes MS has done bad things. Maybe they will with this. But give them a chance with it, let them screw up before you chastise them.
Developers wishing to write 'Nexus-aware' applications will apparently have to pay a licensing fee to do so.
And, I suppose it will only be a matter of time before Palladium dictates that only Nexus-aware programs will run. Nice business model.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Stuff like this makes me wonder about how the current group of Microsoft sympathisers on Slashdot can stand to post their nonsense. I won't name names, but they seem to be getting modded up to 5 often for just saying "how unfair all these anti-MS people are".
Well, tell me, how is Palladium good for us? Go on. You're always saying how silly people are for liking "freedom" (which you always put in quote marks).
So go on, go for it. I'm waiting.
Microsoft is taking the control out of users hands for just the same reason (and for anyone in denial, try to log in as "Administrator" on a WinXP machine). It wouldn't make sense for anyone to be able to bypass the mandatory access controls on a military mainframe, and if they can they have to be very very trusted.
I hear you out there! Screaming that your home computer isn't a shared, let alone military, machine. Well, here's a message for you: it's shared with all the people who write software for your computer. That's right, software has owners and when their software is on your computer they think they should have a say over how it is controlled. For better or worse, your choice to share your computer with the owners of this software is what is driving this effort.
Not that sharing is bad. It makes sense to share. You have the choice of who you share your computer with. I've chosen to share my computer with people who have similar views to me on what is a fair. These people write software that they license under so called "liberal" licenses -- the GPL and the BSD licenses for starters.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Until then, just suck it up and deal with us. Buy our jeans, watch our movies, listen to our music, and watch our bombs fall. Biotch.
the whole world laughs at the stupid brainwashed citizens of america.
it's kind of sweet how you believe all this "land of the free, home of the brave" propoganda crap.
well actually it's just sad.
oh well.
GIVE EVIL nothing to OPPOSE and it will CEASE TO EXIST!
Are you posting this to oppose evil? If so, you might want to rethink your philosophy. Also, you DON'T HAVE TO use the ShiFt KEY!!!! REALLY!
Hahahaha....
Ya right that's what the ottomans where saying 90 years ago...
the otto-who?
exactly.
This seems to me like pretty clear trademark dilution of the Lexus-Nexus trademark. I don't know what "Lexus-Nexus" means, but i know it's what comes to mind when someone says "Nexus-aware."
Anyone agree or disagree on that?
What do we replace the following with:
1) Lightwave
2) Poser
3) Bryce
4) Premiere
5) Flash
6) Dreamweaver
7) Freehand
8) Sound Forge Studio
?
No, Blender doesn't replace Lightwave. Linux has no Poser or Bryce equivalent. There are some Premiere possibilities, but Linux won't do video capture. No Flash. Dreamweaver is probably the easiest to replace, but nobody has done it yet, and nobody has an image/table mechanism like Fireworks and Freehand.
We did the Linux desktop thing for years, and we were always hampered by the fact that we had to build everything EXCEPT our product. Now Linux is a server and doing very well.
Time to get a Mac I suppose.
It's not _your_ company anymore :)
- Arwen, I'm your father, Agent Smith.
- Well, you're just Smith, but my father is Aerosmith!
Eat shit, you greasy pacifist hippies.
I am sick to death of the ludicrous anti-American ravings of you pissed-off geeks. Do you really believe the rest of us don't see right through your mental pathology? Your entire political philosophy boils down to this: "The cool kids picked on me in high school, and I can't get over it. I hate America"
You may not be WORSE THAN HITLER, but if anyone WORSE THAN HITLER ever comes along, he'll be depending on Useful Idiots like yourselves to make this earth a safe place for him.
If there were any justice in this world (and there isn't, thanks in large part to you dictator-appeasing ubermorons), YOU would be considered legitimate "Targets of Opportunity" for every God-fearing American choosing to exercise his second amendment rights.
Please wash the sacred blood of Iraqi dissidents and freedom fighters off your filthy hands, then fuck off, die, and fuck off again.
We own you. Just deal with it dude. I understand that being a citizen of a lesser nation must suck at times, but don't player hate. It's not our fault that all of your women want to ride us hard and put us back in the stable wet.
One of our developers has already approached RMS but apparently he mumbled something about "GNU/trusted computing" before the developer hung up the phone.
________
Open source hosting @ $3 / Month - Cheap Web Site Hosting
Shouldn't this story be in the "Your Rights Online" page? Considering that clicking on Pallidum's EULA will be just like signing your soul over to the devil....I'll take an open source solution thank you very much.
"Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. What will you fight for? One day, you will see."
till this will be cracked by a virus?
You were probably able to write all that without needing to consult the Matrix script.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
The poster has missed the point and has confused two seperate issues into one. (DMR and machine security). If the poster had actually read the microsoft link from his own link he would have come up with the following quote"
" "Palladium" will not require digital rights management technology, and DRM will not require "Palladium." "
DMR is not the focus of Palladium (at least intially.... I say this with a grain of salt as you never know what they future will hold), but rather a seperate microsoft initiative spearheaded by the windowsmedia group and the Office group. I would be far more concerned about what these groups do than what Microsoft has outlined for Palladium.
Palladium is (or at least what is hoped, again i say this with a grain of salt, we'll only really know once the deliverables are shown) a combination of two big ideas. The first is to provide a system in which a user can trust stuff and allow it to run with sensitive information (eg, user data) and provide a sandbox where they can run stuff that they don't trust and know it won't do anything of consequence.
The second is to bring the PC hardware/Software to a more sofistated level, bringing up the bar as it would to what is now held by some of the mainframes. This serves two fold a purpose, one to weed out old hardware and hardware manufacturers that people keep using over and over that perhaps just don't have proper drivers which haul down the machine. Secondly, give greater credibility to the Wintel platform in all they're little political/business/OSS/User heart battles. At the end of the day, any time a user/admin/whomever sees something not function correctly (eg, system crash, failed performance of hardware eg... scanner won't scan) the first impulse is to blame Windows reguardless what caused the problem. I'm all for the improvement of the overall improvement of windows as any system that is improved makes a cost saving in both time and money at the end of the day.
There has been much speculation as to what Pallium will actually be. Most of it has been nonsense runned off by people with FUD as they're agenda. Little is known about what exactly will Pallium eventually encompase.... But what I do know is this. If it turns out that user restrictions are placed and people suddenly stop beind able to do certain things... then Microsoft will get a hit to they're bottom line and OS's like Linux and Mac OSX will suddenly have a massive inflow.
Give the public a little credit... The market doesn't have an absolute hold on them and if windows doesn't suit they're needs they'll jump off as though the ship is on fire. It's not like there aren't other capable alternatives. If there wasn't windows would have been regulated long time ago just like the telcos. But do you really think microsoft would alient people that much (or abolish competition for that matter) to be able to hurt themselves? I think not.
I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take.
I must have forgotten when they convinced me that Clippy was a Good Thing before forcing^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hintroducing it.
Seriously, do you really think they're going to even try to convince us? What's the point of having a monopoly if you can't (ab)use it?
It's worth nothing that the behemoth apps (Outlook, Word, Excel etc) are signed, they will probably keep their embedded superscripting features, so viruses will still happily run on them.
I am curious about buffer overflows. Stack checks are not infallible, code is not read-only and and I can't imagine the palladium system checking the signature for each 4k block as it runs (since if decent encryption is used it will be quite expensive in CPU time). So, will we have signed apps that might still have such bugs ?
for those of you too lazy to convert to base 10 by yourself :)
It's strange, but any time I see any thing in binary or hex I just have to convert to base 10... Is that some sort of early warning for OCD or something do you think?
I still develop some software that only runs on Win32
Did you know that every time you write line of win32 code God kills a kitten?
Well, on the bright side, compatibility should improve, if only because the only thing allowed on the system is Microsoft.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
...all your codebases are belong to us ???
The first thing i thought was: "So, it starts."
... It keeps getting better all the time.
Then I read some comments. You gotta pay to write software for windows. What crap! They have the desktop computer section by the balls, and they keep squeezing for more money.
But the more they squeeze, the more people get sick and leave. So in part, I welcome this. Maybe a few more people will get the idea and switch to something freer....something that ends with "ix"
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take.
Oh that's easy! All you have to do is convince everyone that having control over your computer just helps terrorists.
Sigh. Now if only I were kidding.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Where's the free stuff?
There are several other places to find it; I just googled it again. And get a dead-tree version for your Dad, too (that's where mine went).
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
starting with Longhorn Server in 2005
LOL!. I already have it. Just download any Longhorn 3683 or 4008 build and use a tool called TweakNT to switch OS editions. I did say that a syncronised release was likley with Longhorn didn't I?. WTF? You ask. Lookee here. Don't switch if you depend on Telephony though.
Ok, just hope it doesn't come into Windoze installers. That might put of hopes of YAWLL (yet-another-windows-longhorn-leak)
Anyone else see this story title and immediatly think of a giant Palladium RPG session inside microsoft? Who knows, maybe it's just me. :)
"When will this FP stuff stop?" "After the great growing..." "The great growing?" "Yea, when people grow up."
While I love my mp3s, downloading free images, music videos, tv shows, even copying a DVD to divx here and there ;) ... I can see both sides to the conflict.
I was always one of the people saying the Internet would revolutionize the world... that Information should be free, etc etc. And that's what it comes down to... the real world is based on selling goods, trading services, etc. These goods and services are of limited quantity, so they have value. Media on the Internet can be copied infinitelly, and thus has no value.
I am stepping out on a limb here, but is it possible the dot.com boom of the late 90's failed because of people trying to charge for things that were inherently worthless? What if your wallpapers.com website sold quality wallpaper images, but that were signed and could only be used by the person who bought it. (think: When I buy a painting to put on my wall, I can't send a copy to all my friends for free, can I? Isn't it the _same thing_??)
So there's the problem. Do you want the benefits of a media-rich world, where people can actually make MONEY, and succeed, and continue? How many GOOD sites have shut down because of lack of revenue?
Would it be worth it, if it were properly implemented and restricted, to put such a system in place to give the internet an actual economy?
no comment
Not because of Palladium, which will still be a series of white papers and some sample code, but because the rest of Longhorn should be far enough along to be rather interesting. Hopefully we'll get our first look at what the revised GUI brings to the table.
As for Palladium, it sounds quite appealing. Being able to run sensitive applications in a secure environment would be nice.
And, I suppose it will only be a matter of time before Palladium dictates that only Nexus-aware programs will run.
If Microsoft is going to make the business model of the Nexus environment like that of the Xbox console, then why not just call it "Windows XB"?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Why dont you people bash Microsoft anymore? It used to be so much fun.=)
Microsoft... tsk.
Palladium... hah.
Anything not unix... harumph!
GPLFlash
GPL Flash can do only playback, not interactive graphical authoring.
Audacity
Audacity does not come with anywhere near the set of filters that high-end versions of Cool Edit and Sound Forge come with.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Blender doesn't replace Lightwave.
What are the three most important things that Blender lacks?
Linux has no Poser
What? Most of the Linux fans who post here are posers.
but Linux won't do video capture
Say what?
No Flash.
<rant>
Flash is useless if half your audience blocks application/x-shockwave-flash at the firewall. The common uses of Flash tend not to work over a 48 kbps connection, which 80 percent of Americans are behind. And if you haven't yet shelled out the cash for the upgrade to Flash MX, it's near-impossible to make Section 508 compliant Flash content for clients that do business with the USA government.
</rant>
But I see your point anyway.
Dreamweaver is probably the easiest to replace, but nobody has done it yet, and nobody has an image/table mechanism like Fireworks and Freehand.
I have never used those Very Expensive Programs. That said, the next version of Mozilla Composer can resize images and tables. But why are you using tables for layout anyway? Tables are so 1997; CSS is 2003. Almost nobody uses 4.x browsers anymore, and all 5.x and 6.x browsers have some form of CSS support.
Will I retire or break 10K?
... am I the only one who sees "WinHEC" and reads it as "WineHQ"?
;-)
'Cause I really did. I was all "What? Microsoft is embracing Wine? No wh-hay!"
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
I can't imagine the palladium system checking the signature for each 4k block as it runs
If the Java virtual machine manages to type-check code at load time, why can't the .NET virtual machine?
"But .NET isn't Palladium" you counter. Easy. Microsoft could specify that unmanaged code (i.e. non-.NET code) cannot run inside a nexus.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I remember seeing this vid when i was doing a video editing unit back in uni. I reversed the sound track, and to my surprise, you can hear the word 'Linux' uttered. I don't know whether it was just the editor i used, or whether it will always work. Have a go and see!
There's talk of phasing in Palladium, starting with Longhorn Server in 2005.
There is no planned server edition for Longhorn, much less with a fixed release date of 2005.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
...that similar to the Xbox, which I hear is a sort of initial version of the Palladium/hardware security that we will be seeing... What will happen if this huge target does get cracked? Would it make it even more vulnerable than a target that is expected to be broken into every once in a while?
And he doesn't need us "Useful Idiots," he's got enough support from brainwahed "Christians"(like any Protestants are getting into Heavan, LOL), and ethnocentric, xenophobic, conservatives.
.wait. . .I mean Zeig Heil!!
Hooray for America. .
, for one, am already planning to transition my company away from Microsoft software
But this sort of thing is brilliant for companies, as it cuts down on the damage a employee can do on their PC. It also restricts what data a sour employee can walk out of your company with.
I for one would like to be able to see a OpenSource application that works like a central repository and customises documents via steganograpghy whenever an employee checks out a sensative document. Then leaks can be tracked down to who checked the document out, and investigations proceed from there.
n/t
What does this dream mean?
In a press release addressed to the world from Bill Gates... "Hello citizens of the world. I would just like to congratulate all the owners of our Palladium-enabled operating system! You won't have to worry about viruses -- they won't run on your system. You won't have to worry about those nasty games such as Anarchy Online or Doom 3, either. We are only going to allow our operating system to run our software. Some of you have asked about the exclusion of 'Minesweeper' from this version of Windows. To be blunt, Minesweeper takes so much time and effort to produce, that we've decided to sell it as a separate product. That will be another $500, per computer, per user. That covers one year worth of updates. It will also require a CD-key and server verification! Once again, I'd like to thank the U.S. Government for helping us out, and you the people for voting with your dollars. Its clear that all the software manufacturers EXCEPT for Microsoft haven't lived up to your standards, so you'll never have to deal with them again!"
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
So, what's going on to keep the MSFT lap-dogs, and their potential customers, informed about SELinux -- and OpenBSD -- in response to the marketing of this "Palladium" thing? Seems like they might be for different sectors of the market (SELinux, OBSD for those who know what they're doing, MSFT-windows for the rest?), but that article doesn't give a lot of details about what "Palladium" is, anyway, no offense.
"trusted Windows technology platform" -- that, in itself, sounds hillarious.
Here's to waiting or digging for details on what this MSFT "nexus" thing is, beneath the flash, hubub, poop, and other marketing.
Now, do y'all get the impression that microsoft is playing this thing right into the workstations of "sensitive" federal offices? If they do this, and succeed in locking those offices into their platform -- if they haven't done so already -- it would be a major blow against the state of the competive market -- within and without "the government sector".
"Jane, how do you stop this crazy thing?!"
Woe to the companies who cannot escape before the time is up, for they shall be captured in the snares of that wicked serpent, and he shall show no mercy.
Their blood shall be upon their own hands.
And what if opposing this "evil" leads into an even greater evil like breaking down the machinery of international collaboration, diplomacy and trust in treaties - just in order to get rid of one piss-ant tin-pot dictator who, thanks to contaiment by inspections, does not pose any direct threat to his neighbours or USA?
And don't bother telling me about how the Iraqis are suffering under his rule at the same time you advocate bombing the shit out of them. That's just too hypocritical and self-serving attempt at justifying an illegal war of aggression.
From the article:
"We will be having a big coming-out showing on NGSCB at WinHEC," says NGSCB group product manager Mario Juarez."
Oh, I see, so we should all blindly follow you(while you eat up everything you hear on CNN, all of a sudden) or die.
Someone else once thought like that and that someone was Adolf Hitler.
You people amuse me, you sit around and argue that you are the real patriots, but then as soon as someone thinks something different than what you think they should(and I quote),fuck off, die, and fuck off again.
You sir, are a true a patriot. You love your country so much that you will defend it from a message board.
Well, I am against the war and I love my country too. It's funny, because I always thought that we loved our country for the freedom, that everyone no matter who they are can say what they want(among other things). But the type of behavior you advocate is comparable to a Nazi regime.
Perhaps, if people such as yourself would open their minds a little more violence would not be a problem.
Well, I'm done, go ahead and keep advocating that sort of behavior and treating your fellow man like dirt, and then when you get what you want you can come back here and try to lay the blame on someone else.
You tell me that I make no difference. Well at least I'm f***ing trying! What the f*** have you done!
--Minor Threat
http://www.google.ca/search?q=nexus&ie=ISO-8859-1& hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Hopefully that will post. If not delete the spaces if they appear. It's a search for the word nexus on Google....
It seems well used already.
I'm sure it's copyrighted already too. Isn't there a car aleady called that? Sounds familar..
Poetic justice. Stolen name on trustworthy computing.
Must remember to have all Linux computers by 2005.
Clocks ticking....
By 2007 Microsoft should be bankrupt.
Get your bravery from a six pack
Get your bravery from a half-pint
Drink your whiskey, drink your grain
Bottoms up and you don't feel pain
Go out and fight, fight
Bottled violence
Lose control of your body
Beat the shit out of somebody
Half-shut eyes don't see who you hit
But you don't take any shit
Go out and fight, fight
Bottled violence
I, for one, am already planning to transition my company away from Microsoft software.
Just be sure that your goal here is in line with that of your employer. Or, if you are the boss, that you've thought about the implications for your customers and, therefore, you. Playing favorites with ones means is a risk few will take, so don't expect a lot of help.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Yes, I like Minor Threat, I like my music with a little thought behind it. Not mindless love song garbage.
This is not about selling tied-down boxen to consumers; it's about corporations. They do want to take control away from their worker's computers, so that those pesky people can't use them for anything but work ! To this end, many things have been tried with MS operating systems, but the problem is; none of them work completely: the setup of the OS won't allow for it; I've had Administrator on any tied down NT box they tried to make me use ! So here comes MS, with a solution out of the box; a completely tied down windows machine, that plays only signed applications. What more could a floor-manager want ?
Longhorn is a client release. The server release has a different name ...
If this isn't momopoly abuse I don't know what is. For America I fear there is no hope since the outcome of The Trial, but I keep hoping (maybe naively) that the EC will ban this before it gets on the market.
-- Cheers!
Yeah. Luv is teh sux0rs. Luv is for brain dead fools.
Apple did it and it has only 5% of the market. Let that be a lesson.
(Disclaimer: Well, not really considering I have swtiched may laptop to an iBook and am loving the BSD-based little thing.)
Goodbye customers. this will surely kill the PC platform dead. When Palladium Kicks in it IS time for linux to take over, why? because Palladium takes away *everything* good about an IBM Compatible PC, it's freedom. It's freedom and innovation that made the PC great .. and now they want to take that all away again? gimme a break! This Palladium monstrocity *will not* work. unless they do something sneaky like roll it into the OS chunk by chunk. Of course there are the people that will do *whatever* microsoft say just because they say so, and it's those people that *might* give this horrible excuse for a platform some kind of a chance. Frightening huh?
ms will opensource windows and keep palladium closed.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
Allow palladium to get anywhere
and wave goodbye to freedom and innovation.
I love the way that everyone is just flaming Microsoft, without any knowledge at all of what Palladium is or what the Nexus is or what the implications are of the system. I'm glad I'm not an open source sheep...
Nick...
I think you're more likely to get a GNU/FOAD from RMS on that one....
Cthulhu loves you.
Anger problem.
IBM and Intel, and a few other hardware manufacturers, probably with support from Microsoft, tried something similar back in 2000.
Then it was called Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM). This was hardware based system that encrypted the data on hard disks. The idea was that they would sell hard disks with hardware based encryption and key management. The goal was to provide a platform for DRM. One description can be found at The Register.
There was a lot of noise in the press for a couple of months after the announcements as the public opposition was voiced. Then the initiative quietly died.
It's not surprising that CPRM dissapeared, since no one could force you to use CRPM based hardware. Why would customers go out and upgrade/replace their perfectly good hard disks with something that imposes (to the ordinary user) complex and difficult to understand restrictions? Particularly when when normal unrestricted hard disks would still to be available.
I suspect (and hope) that Palladium will suffer a similar fate. Most people resist forced upgrades. Over the years, Microsoft has tarnished its reputation by continualy forcing users to upgrade. As the Windows cost/ownership hassle has increased, the minority of non-upgraders has grown and now includes even a few major corporations. Worse, it's also caused some previously loyal customers to switch to Unix and Linux.
With Palladium, the upgrade will require a new Palladium enabled PC, not just more memory and a faster CPU. This, combined with the restrictions, will make people even more reluctant. If Microsoft actually forces the upgrade, say by discontinuing support and sales of previous Windows versions, they risk a customer revolt. Microsoft realizes this (as evidenced by the recent Palladium name changes and smoke and mirrors announcements) and is treading cautiously.
My personal belief is that DRM is an unreachable utopia. It only takes one person to crack an instance of DRM protected media or indeed the DRM system itself. Once this has happened, then there's nothing anyone can do, technically or legally, to stop distribution of the unprotected digital content. Given the financial incentives there are plenty of clever minds willing to devote a lot of energy to cracking DRM systems. I'm not saying this is legal/moral, I'm just pointing out that it's inevitable that DRM systems will be attacked.
In the end, forcing copy protection schemes on users doesn't solve the problem and just ends up annoying the users. Examples of failed DRM are all around us: DVD's, Adobe's e-books, etc. Remember 'dongles'? They failed too. As Bruce Schneier says, encryption doesn't stop anyone, it only slows them down.
Alan Hodgkinson
---- It won't be as bad as you fear or as good as you hope, but it will take twice as long as you plan.
Haven't you heard? The U.S. government is now a subsidiary of Microsoft. Or is it the other way around?
I wrote what I consider to be a fairly informative article on Palladium and the impact on the anti-virus industry here:
p alladium.xml
... uh ... PR-ish ;-)
http://www.virusbtn.com/magazine/archives/200209/
Summary:
- It's foolish to expect it'll stop viruses
- Microsoft will have the anti-virus industry by the short and curlies
- Microsoft PR is impressively
Score:-1, Funny
Indeed. Increased activity from MS-Astroturfers in prep for April's roll-out?
Also notice the change in strategy by MS-apologists and MS-Astroturfers: steer the argument away from discussion of facts into a discussion of taste/style/opinion then conclude with a statement that taste/style/opinion is of equal merit.
Microsoft knows that its products cannot compete on technical merits which is why the EULA forbids publishing benchmark results. It also knows that Enron-style book keeping can't keep up t the illusion of profit indefinitely.
I read where Intel is designing the new procsesors with features for MSofts Paladium. It will have a protected memory/cache inside the processor that can't be accessed and for the sole purpose of decrypting/encrypting stuff in this area with additional processor instructions or MSofts s/w.
Thus this area is for DRM usage and what not that the user can't tap into.
"I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take. "
Not long. A glimpse from the future...
Microsoft Windows XP2 makes your favorite operating system even more user friendly.
Tired of viruses, spyware, and popup ads that aren't from Microsoft? So are we, so XP2 utilizes a brand new technology called Palladium. You can now be confident that only Microsoft tested, and approved programs can run on your computer.
Security is a good thing (TM)
Back to the present...
--Joey
That makes sense, to defeat your enemy you must *KNOW* your enemy. or at least as much about them as you possibly can.
Who Cares.
I darn you to WinHEC, a Fate Worse than Death!
Stick Men
MDAC is good, don't have to buy SQL Server
I have read many good points here and I am sure there are more. But let's face it, what it really comes down to is marketing. 95% or people have no clue and just believe what they are told.
Decisionmakers, who are arguably more informed, are being swayed by "better" marketing. I remember going to a Miscrosoft OEM event in 92. I got to meet Bill Gates and a bunch of other executives. We had a great party with George Benson playing live. It was impressive. Now that takes care of another 3% and the remaining 2% are just written off as a pain in the butt.
As much as it pains me, I predict a huge success for Palladium and I vow NEVER to let it enter ANY of my systems.
Yeah, I know, OT but English is not my mother tongue. I thought, Fritz was some reference to the Germans but this does not really make sense here, does it? What does "Fritz types" mean?
The xbox does exactly that. The developers probably have to for the XDK and pay a royality fee to MS.
Many people are running an old OS for many years. It's not like everybody has switched to WinXP either. Personally I know quite a few that are likely to stay on Windows 2000 until it is EOL'd.
.doc file? Sorry, protected by Palladium. Watch that not-a-CD/DVD-but-shiny-disc? Sorry, Palladium only.
But yeah, I imagine it could be pretty anal pretty soon. Import email and contacts from Outlook to Evolution? Sorry, protected by Palladium. Open that
With their new "trusted" programs they will seek to destroy interoperability with Linux. Weakening interoperability with their own old products is just a bonus to make people upgrade. If you have read up on monopoly theory, they want to "obsolete" their old products anyway, to avoid competing with "themselves".
If you ask what the incentive for the consumer will be, it'll be the lack of choice. Don't want to buy a copy-crippled CD? Do you think they'll give you an unprotected one? I expect Microsoft to work hard to provide "exclusive" applications and content that you can only get on a Palladium-enabled machine.
Also remember that Microsoft has considerable leverage themselves to provide Palladium-only software, in particular when it comes to MS Office. If they can portray Win/Office Palladium as a superior combo (anti-trust yadda yadda) they *will* sell well.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
IF you really want trusted computing, do what I do...
Never put ANYTHING IMPORTANT on a computer with worldwide access. It's that simple. If you are deathly afraid of theft, pull the broadband out of the wall. That's trusted computing. I call it trusting yourself. It is the only way.
Trusted computing is a hoax. It is a concept that goes against human nature. Throughout history there have been criminal activities. People will always try to get something illegally, or through so little effort that it is nearly criminal.
The only method to trusted computing is the old methods, file it up, lock it up, seperate it, let only trusted members near it, and apply human protocols to make sure it stays secure. Just like we have been doing with sensitive things for generations.
Anyone that believes that this "trusted computing" scam won't be ripped apart in under a month is insane.
Stick with the human methods. No amount of code will ever save you from security problems, no matter how deep the code runs.
Well, quite simple. Microsoft will actually package Nexus (Drug also know as 2C-B) with the product.
Got Athlon?
I run Windows 98 for weeks on end (Web surfing, compiling programs, testing compiled programs) with hardly a BSOD, and when I do get BSOD's they are mostly attributable to something I did to an application during development, which I can track down with a lot of gnashing of teeth.
If you are BSODing 3 times a day, it is some or another software you are running. Yeah, yeah, it is Windows' fault because there is very little defensive programming (validation of parameters of API calls) inside Windows, but it has to be some application that is doing it.
Originally, the WinHEC conference was called "WinHELL", but public relations decided that "HELL" would not be suitable for young children, including the immature people who insist on running Windows.
Join Tor today!
Airstrikes, airstrikes, airstrikes.
All your Next-Generation Secure Computing Base are belong to us...
By the time this paladium comes out, 3ghz PCs will be the norm. How much do you need for a word processor?
Ignor the paladium chips, and just use the old 3ghz chips. Run old XP or switch to Linux, or Mac.
I never worry too much about Windows and MS...as long as they are not backed / enforced by the type of legislation mentioned in the post, you still have a CHOICE. And as far as I am concerned, the more DRM and cripling technologies that MS puts in its OS, the more I and other users will be switching to Linux (I am about half and half these days).
The goal of Palladium is to prevent users from running certain software on their system, and as we all know MS Operating Systems are great at preventing things from running.
Is Palladium suppose to carry over to things off the computer? Because I know many businesses that wouldn't run if they used Windows.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
It seems he's touched a sensitive spot,no? Did your woman leave,deciding she'd like it better here in the USA?
Well if she didn't,I bet she wishes she would have.And that's just something your sorry foreigner ass will have to live with.
Her,dreaming of some liberating cock,from heroic Americans,and you standing there with a limp dick in your hand and ashamed look on your face.She sneers at you with contempt as you turn to hide your inadequacy,knowing she might be stuck with a little man..
You know full well that when you "buy" software, you are paying for a license to use it, and you agree and accept the license agreement on software you install on your computer. If you don't like it or agree or accept it, don't install it and get your money back.
Seems pretty simple to me.
I think I am wrong but can't let it go. Didn't people bash Apple for making them submit program code back in the day?
No idea why that is a splinter in my brain.
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
the "2003" server was originally supposed to be released at the same time as XP Pro and Home. So, to answer your question, no.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
This was stated in the body, but I think that there could some truth in the assertion that Windows Palladium could become mandated by law. M$ does a nice job greasing the political wheels in Washington as seen by the (in)Justice department cave-in under Bush/As(shole)croft. Yep, M$ Windows could be mandated to "fight terrorism" and improve the economy (Bill's). Please visit me in jail...I will give up my Linux only when you pry the keyboard (rodent optional) from my cold dead hands....
Great! You can download the driver but M$ refuses to play with it. I suppose you can get the "pro" version and it will work for now?
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
The alarm whent off more than a year ago, despite the blither of the B$ trade rags and even they are looking around in panic. Anyone in IT not over 50 is looking hard at M$ alternatives. Anyone in IT who has not set up a Linux box yet is incompetent, a fanboy or both. The pooch is screwed and no amount of dumping can save them from free software that works better then their own.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Because at load time the buffer overflow hasn't happened yet, and the code hasn't been overwritten.
The Java virtual machine enforces mandatory bounds checking on arrays, and I'm pretty sure the .NET virtual machine does so as well. Remember that managed code does not use pointers.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Now that's an iteresting question. How can I be root on a machine that contains information I should not look at and don't want to know about? I can imagine encryption scheemes based on files maintained by a user that I can't read. Hey, you might even try to use some kind of fancy authentication software like Kerbos. There has to be a way to do it with software and that can be translated on any platform. In any case, the answer is NOT to give control to M$ through Paladumb. In fact, you should never trust closed source code with anything important.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Unfortunately, they don't need to convince my boss. He's quite convinced that we must go with MS, and that there's nothing wrong with it anyway, and "if they get too overbearing, their customers will stop them". He doesn't seem to get that "their customers" means him.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The propaganda effort is most distrubing and effective. It includes the first item but also includes children's shows, such as The Proud Family, intimidation and guilt by association. The argument goes that unrestricted copying will deprive artists of their livelyhoods. Paradoxially, people are being made to think that their own work has no value and is open to all. The best example of this is the "no expectation of privacy" for email. The government's efforts to get at that information and the images they have created for people like Kevin M, are very distrubing. The upshot is that people are starting to believe that they have no control over their computers or personal data, but that this is a necessary and good thing. Many government, entertainment, publishing and telcom groups have the same goal in mind.
In the short term they will sugar coat things by promising more movies and other entertainment for your PC if only you give up a little control. As soon as enough people have given up enough control for long enough laws will be passed to enforce that control universally.
This effort represents the greatest threat to free speech and press ever. If hardware control is placed on all devices capable of copying digital data, there will be no free presses.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
In Redmond Washington, the programmer pays to be allowed to write software ...
1: Microsoft sees Partition Magic, who come up to them and ask for certification. M$ say "Fine, just take out the ability to fiddle with Linux/other non Windows partitions". N00bs buy software, don't care. Linux dualbooters buy software, find their software is crippled and go apeshit. Red Hat, SUsE, Gentoo et al get assraped.
2: Microsoft refuses certification for Corel Wordperfect Office, Lotus SmartSuite, OpenOffice.org (yeah fucking right!!!). Microsoft becomes ultimate monopoly. Goto 1.
3: Little granny uses her computer, then finds it fucked because grandson used a non-trusted product. Little granny gets pissed off at computers. Little granny never goes back.
4: Mr Goodboy buys a new PC with a box set of Red SuSE GNU/Linux. Tries to remove Palladium, can't-Palladium fucked his hard disk by write protecting it whenever it wasn't running! Mr Goodboy formulates plot involving BillyBoy and some whips.
5: Profit!
If you're happy and you know it read my blog
i can see wind-doze zombies, they're everywhere, and they don't know they're wind-doze zombies!
101011010 or whatever the guys/gals code up top is, converts to 666 in decimal.
I think Bill is finally getting what he wants. The control of millions of desktops at his fingertips. This would be his own super computer that only allows software to be installed which services his media center in his new home. It's obvious to me.
Seriously though, I think if this really happens, my app development will be totally *NIX and Windows will go out the window and into the shallow end of the gene pool. More feed for the herd.
Suck It!!!!!
So, when they actually roll Palladium out for real, will we all be in WinHELL?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
ISPs require that anyone connecting to them be using Palladium. That'd pretty much be the end of the road for Free (liber) desktops.
Maybe MSFT gets the government to pass a law in the interest of national security, to prevent "hackers" from using "rogue" OSes like Linux to run amok on the internet. Apple users scream foul, but no one cares abou them since they're only 3% of the market. Corporate Unix users don't care either, because they have special "professional" level accounts with their ISPs, and aren't bounded by "consumer grade" service restrictions, and as long as their servers still work, they're happy.
Think it couldn't happen?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
It's eerily appropriate that Microsoft calls the place through which all things pass "the Nexus". The Borg have a Nexus, too: a set of stabalized wormholes through which Borg cubes can reach the entire galaxy (Voyager final episode). Things that make you go "hmmmm..."
There has been quite a bit of negative press about Palladium so Microsoft has changed the name of the project to "Next-Generation Secure Computing Base". They want to be able to say anyone criticizing Palladium is talking about something that no longer exists. They made sure it does not have a catchy acronym to make it hard to comoplain about it, it is NGSCB.
I hereby propose we pronounce "Next-Generation Secure Computing Base" as NAGSCAB. That's a nice ugly title for it.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Quote a Matrix scene, replace the word "Matrix" with "Nexus," and suddenly that's +5 Funny?
Slashdot is in the pits.
Simple, they are planning on making people so dependant on their plaform, that they will have to upgrade if they wish to continue on the Windows platform. Much how they forced people on Win95 and WinNT to upgrade if they wish to continue to run certain software designed for Windows platform or to keep their computers secure.
Examples that come to mind:
- Anything that requires DirectX9 or newer.
- Anything that requires IE6 or newer.
- Anything that requires the new Windows installer eg: Sonic Foundary's AcidPro 3 or newer.
- Anything that requires the
.NET framework.
- Any product that relies on the Media Player 7 or better.
This time, they will get away with it easily because:- Excuses like: "The new features required by product x cannot be implemented in these older OS's without a complete rewrite from the ground up."
- They have set a precedent by doing it already.
- The new licensing scheme is setting them up for this strategic move.
- MS generated FUD regarding Open Source Sofware and alternative OS's.
Their goal is to get people so dependant on their system:Isn't there a car aleady called that?
;-)
Try "Lexus".
New Zealand, Canada, England, Scotland, Holland, France, all come to mind.
America is NOT free. Kids can't even pray (even silently) in a public school grounds. Freedom of speech, first ammendment, freedom of religion, blah blah blah.
It would seem the the "Land of the Free" has imprisoned many "suspected" terrorists without trial for well over a year in Cuba. No lawyer. Presumed guilty, no chance to prove innocence.
The "Land of the Free" also has the largest number of people locked away in it's prisons also.
...as a chemiccal attack.
I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take.
How long did it take for the media to announce that >50% of the people were now in favor of the war on Iraq?
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
"I wonder how Microsoft will convince consumers that loss of control is a good thing, and how long the convincing will take.
It's simple: they won't tell anything toanybody; end-users will happily go buy new Palladium-enabled computers (and the rare birds actually *looking* at the box they're buying will see a cool "Palladium/Secure" logo, think "hey, cool, less virii and evil hackers around!" and buy it). And when everybody will be palladium-enabled, well, it will be too late for anybody to step back.
I mean, Microsoft has come to a point where they don't even need to market/explain their products. This is what is happening with XP: poor anticipation, few upgrades from previous versions of Windows to XP, yet XP is shipped with virtually every new PC on the planet.
99% of the people who buy computers, when asked if its a PC or Mac or what, just *don't know*. And don't care. Turn on, type text, save, print, turn off until next essay/letter/whatever. And don't try to explain why Palladium is a screwed scheme, or that Open Source is cool, or that OS X is what they need: they'll just go with the typical "oh, y'know, I don't know about computers, I don't understand what you're talking about, and I just want to type text anyways".
This settles it: the unsuspecting end users will be screwed before they even notice.
But then what about companies and businesses? Well, the press (even here in relatively "computer-illiterate" France) has issued worried articles about Palladium. But no-one cares because companies will never, ever switch to anything that's not Microsoft. I mean, they've become accustomed to running NT servers, Windows clients, Outlook/Entourage/Explorer/Word/Excel/PowerPoint. All their proprietary, custom-tailored software has been written for DOS/Windows exclusively, often (always?) by third-party companies and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they haven't bothered to save the source code. (Read, all their vital software is TIED to Microsoft platforms)
Yet, it sucks. But then, you know, life as a whole sucks as one big fscking whore, so it's a non-issue...
Hello! I'm a disaster waiting to happen!
I don't know what MS is doing to market Palladium these days, but their old marketing hook - that Palladium allows users to protect their privacy by limiting what others can do with their personal data - is misleading, manipulative and underhanded.
As a way to protect people's privacy, Palladium is useless. If you as a recepient of somebody else's data are able to read it, then you're also able to copy it: you can use a camcorder to copy video, a tape recorder to copy audio, and a pencil to copy text. The copies will be reduced in quality, but the message itself can still be disseminated.
As a way to protect redistribution of copyrighted material, it is "good enough": because analog copies of movies and music are significantly reduced in quality, and because copies of protected software are non-functional (hacked copies excepted), content producers benefit significantly from such a system.
People who think Palladium is purpose neutral - that it has significant uses outside of DRM - should give some thought to whether such tight control is really necessary to achieve a reasonable degree of privacy and security.
Make no mistake, Palladium's primary purpose isn't to enhance consumer privacy and security, it's to cater to the whims of content producers. It will be a sad day when I can no longer move my software from one computer to another, or when I'm no longer able to print out documents without the publisher's permission, or when I'm only allowed limited-time access to software or documents I've purchased.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
Every one of the countries you mentioned, including Canada if you consider Quebec, would be speaking GERMAN now if not for the U.S.
Feel free to head to any one of them, and then convince these governments to start picking up the tab for their own National Defense, without the support of the America.
Just see how far that gets you, you idiot.
Freedom isnt free.
With the ever open(cough) and absolutely honest(cough, cough) Microsoft Corporation dispensing the information, will I ever have even a chance of discovering the truth of such things?
Dare I trust the information they have provided or the assurances they have given?!?
What of Microsoft's business partners in this, can I trust them? How confident can I be that they have been neither manipulated nor influenced?
Do I want Microsoft involved in anything that has to do with authentication?
Can I count on the wisdom of my fellow consumers to protect me from scams that should have no chance of working in a free market?
caveat emptor
they all have heart attacks and die on stage during the presentation and that the demo machnes burst into flames, then SATAN pops out of the burning boxes and with a huge sickle, whacks their heads off as they are on their knees grabbing their chests in pain..
According to Palladium:
Safe software = made by Microsoft
Unsafe software = everything else
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen