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MS Says Longhorn To Arrive 2005
Lawrence Person writes "According to this article in PC World, Microsoft 'publicly confirmed 2005 as the release year for Longhorn, the successor to Windows XP.' And of course, we all know tha Microsoft release dates never slip..."
Will we have to activate the box before we open it this time around?
I wouldn't mind if they delay their release. The longer they wait the more chance Linux has to succeed.
It's just like IE vs Netscape - Netscape took too long with Mozilla and now IE is everywhere.
That's a relief, now I don't have to buy Windows Server 2003.
[o]_O
Part of me looks at this and goes "so?" and part of me thinks about the opposite extreme with where Apple doesnt say anything (or much) is coming soon and just releases it and lets people find it themselves...
But seriously, isnt this just a tad bit too far in the future to look toward? Or is this just to get people to quit emailing/speculating about when its coming out.
We don't need an "overrated" so much as we need a "you completely missed the parent's point, dumbass..."
Windows 2006
Don't believe anything I say. I crash test crack pipes for a living.
To the all Gnome, KDE, X, OpenOffice, Linux, glibc, and all other developers. You now know you have TWO years to make Open Source better. KDE 3.2 prealphas looks promising, but X's rendering system needs a huge lift and OpenOffice needs to get a lot faster and stabler.
And of course, we all know tha(t) Microsoft release dates never slip...
It's fun to snipe, of course, and it's nice to feel some kind of safety/security in the fact that they've been very late on many things and/or delivered with bugs.
But don't get too comfy. If you're a competitor or someone who'd like to see them go down in flames (or at least severely humbled), the important thing is beating them to the punch, and jeers from the sideline don't help win a race.
Tweet, tweet.
Yes, just like we know that Slashdot submissions never have typos.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
"Powers. I have them."
Slashdot editors amended story titles and corrected blatent typos.
WinFS replaces the NTFS and FAT32 file systems used in current Windows versions.
Does anyone here know if FAT32 support will be maintained, as keeping write support from linux for many people will be important.
Given XP came out in 2002, ..
this is probably the biggest gap between releases of windows since win 3.1.1 and win 95
It will be interesting to see if this is infact as big a jump from win xp as win 95 was.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Actually, the code is complete. It'll take the lawyers until 2005 to write the EULA that you have to agree to before installation.
What kinds of features can we expect in Longhorn that Apple won't already have had for awhile by the time it ships?
Apple should be shipping Mac OS X 10.3 (or whatever they call it - codename Panther) running on 64-bit PowerMac G5 systems in September 2003. Two years after that, they'll have had another major release of OSX, and even the iBook should be G5-based.
How does Longhorn compare to XP and OSX for home users?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Does anyone know why MS chose the name Longhorn for the Windows XP successor? In Texas and Alberta, "Longhorn" is instantly recognizable as a well-known breed of cattle.
I predict that "Where's the Beef?" jokes (currently in hibernation since the 80's) will reappear on the cultural landscape in 2005, as the Longhorn release date is inevitably delayed by Microsoft...
And of course, we all know tha Microsoft release dates never slip...
Can anyone name a company as old as MS that hasn't ever slipped on a release date? A company that has released as many products as MS that hasn't ever slipped on a release date?
If you're gonna take a shot, make it a good one.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
i dunno about that. jeers from the sideline have screwed up many a race when it distracted them :-)
IE 3 and 4 sucked too. IE 3 is horribly slow at rendering while IE 4 freezes every 10 minutes AND eats more memory.
That places the release just after software assurance expiration.
In the words of Comic Book Store Guy: 'Worst name ever.'
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Text of the article:
Microsoft today confirmed that it's follow up version to windows XP, codename Longhorn, will be released in 2005.
Information Minister Mohommed Saeed al-Sahaf said "Today is a great day for the nation of Microsoft. Our enemies call us the Beast of Redmond. Laugh now supplicants! Soon the Beast will impale you His Longhorn! The Sons of Bill rejoice, knowing the Penguin is too far from reality, with thier stomachs roasting and their processes committing suicide at the Gates of Redmond. Never will our dates slip, in fact, it will be ready by 2004. Even now it is ready, but we hold it back at our will!"
Richard Stallman responded for the OSS community by replying "WTF? Where did they get this guy? Oh, patent on overlordish rhetoric? Sheeeeesh."
The real release date is 2006++
Remember that between Win 3.11 and Win 95, was NT 3.5 and so on, so it went.
Win 3.11
NT 3.5
Win 95 - Aug 1995
NT 4.0 - July 1996
98 - June 1998
98SE - June 1999
2000 - March 2000
ME - December 2000
XP - December 2001
2003 - April 2003
2005 isn't all that far off. And that doesn't mean that they may not release another home version in there too.
---- Move SIG...For great justice!
Does anyone actually care? If so, why?
A big change in Longhorn will be the new Windows Future Storage (WinFS) file system, based on SQL Server database technology and designed to give users a direct route to data, making the physical location of a file irrelevant. WinFS replaces the NTFS and FAT32 file systems used in current Windows versions.
Ok, so I know they've developed this for Unix already, but making this the standard is actually a pretty big improvement. Blah blah Microsoft sucks blah blah, but maybe we do have some things to look forward to in the next release. I wonder how many other actual improvements they'll lay down on us. Though the name is totally bullshit (the FS stands for Future Storage??? idiots...).
"Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil." -Philips
It's really rather sad the way I have begun to look at Microsoft releases. I used to actually look forward to them because generally they were a great improvement over their predessors. Windows 98 was a great upgrade from 95. From a purely technological point of view, Windows XP had a lot to say for its stability. The licensing scheme, however, was disturbing.
As Microsoft tightens down more and more on their licensing, I begin to dread anything that comes out of Redmond. I would embrace the improvements and innovations if it weren't for that tightening sensation of the noose around my neck. I will likely not even touch Longhorn unless I absolutely must. The cost and licensing look to be far too prohibitive, and I fear to give too much control to Microsoft lest I find all of my creations suddenly removed from my control.
At current rate, Microsoft is quickly digging their own grave. My company, formerly a very Windows centric shop, is starting to talk more and more about moving to UNIX due to the cost of upgrades. Longhorn may actually prove to be the breaking point at which, due to overly restrictive licensing, the corporate world starts seeking a cheaper solution.
It is sad that we must fear technological innovation because of the abuses that seem to abound as a result, and Microsoft is doing very little to help in this regard.
I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!
Well, it'll be in the top 20, anyway.
Dude, that's sick.
How fscking gross.
Like I want to hang out on the toilet and surf the web, much less touch something in a public restroom that some SARS fool has touched.
This is disgusting...
Since MS makes no guarantees, even to Licensing 6.0 customers, this could turn into a headache. You pony up the $$$ for SA and it turns out they slide the release date out past your SA end date. So sorry, want to renew?
d efined.asp
While Microsoft intends to continue to upgrade and enhance its products, Microsoft does not guarantee that a new version of any particular product will be released within any specific period of time.
-> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/programs/sa/sa
What are they going to do with bugs now? Before they could just punt it to Longhorn, and now what are they going to do? Fix bugs?
You can't handle the truth.
But why would MS want their OS to be pretty?
It's like women who wear lots of make-up but not enough to cover up the frown lines and sunken eyes.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
quoth PCWorld-- A big change in Longhorn will be the new Windows Future Storage (WinFS) file system, based on SQL Server database technology and designed to give users a direct route to data, making the physical location of a file irrelevant. WinFS replaces the NTFS and FAT32 file systems used in current Windows versions.
:)
is a new file system something we really need? NTFS support is still not 100% in Linux, and now there's a new filesystem to catch up with? beside, who know what kind of bugs will have to be ironed out of it before it approaches NTFS's legendary status.
me, I'm still amused at MS building IIS into the kernel. can't wait to see how that works out
I saw it on Slashdot, it must be true!
This means physical location as in which drive, even which PC the data is located on.
And before someone jumps in, this is different from mount points and symlinks and mapped drives.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Next thing you know they'll use JCL.... Is anybody else disturbed by this? One of their shittiest technologies (SQL Server -- I think my Rolodex benchmarks better and a bank vault in Baghdad is more secure) as the basis for a filesystem. Hoo boy.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
All those poor people who bought the Licensing 6.0 crap sure will be disappointed. Anybody who paid for that 3 year license back in 2001 (up to July of 2002 actually) will be entitled to all upgrades until, um, 2004. Or July of 2005. Nice to see that MS won't be releasing their next desktop OS until after the 3-year license expires.
Congratulations! You just paid MS for three years of nothing! (Well, the servers are entitled to Windows Server 2003, but that still doesn't justify the cost of the licenses for all the desktops.)
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
That's a relief, now I don't have to buy Windows Server 2003.
:)
Mmhmm. Longhorn is a client OS. It is the successor to XP, not 2003.
I hope that you're not planning to use Longhorn for all your datacenter needs, or Server 2003 for all your desktop needs.
The coolest voice ever.
so in mid 2004, the name will be changed, the feature set downsized, and new buzzwords will abound. when delivered late, the new product will somewhat resemble the initial promise and Ms will then present a modified version of history that makes the vastly changed deliverable be exactly what was promised way back in 03.
ho hum. next story
A big change in Longhorn will be the new Windows Future Storage (WinFS) file system, based on SQL Server database technology and designed to give users a direct route to data, making the physical location of a file irrelevant. WinFS replaces the NTFS and FAT32 file systems used in current Windows versions.
And... Why not make it encrypted and require that every application which is loaded into memory is signed with a (MS)key and uses encrypted argument passing like the lovely "blackbox" dll (used in their DRM solution), so that only good and secure(MS certified) applications can access the file system or run at all? This ought to protect (stop) the average user (pirate) from accidentally (intentionally) running Hacker (ordinary and popular) tools, like non-MS development environments, debuggers or those pesky (great) hacker (command line) GNU utilities from the FSF hacker (support) organization.
In a society that believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda ~ Bill Durodié
I'm curious how this article became Slashdot news. The last article mentioned the 2005 release date, and it has been common knowledge for a long time now that 2005 was the year Microsoft was slating for as the release date. More informative news would have been this preview of Longhorn's 3D compositing graphics technology that was shown to Paul Thurrot of WinInformant at WinHEC.
It leads me to believe Slashdot just wanted another Longhorn article on the front page due to the wild comments the last one garnered. Gotta get those page hits.
"Sufferin' succotash."
How's the HURD doing again?
Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
Lots of companies (including my employer) don't set their upgrade watch by Microsoft. We (a PrettyBigCompany I won't name) stayed with Windows 3.1 until 1998 when we transitioned to NT4 on the desktop. We will most likely switch to XP sometime this fall. I can pretty much guarantee you that we won't be moving away from XP until 2008 or so.
Of course we're just now finishing switching from Token Ring to Ethernet and from Netware 4.11 on Pentium Pro 200's to Netware 5.1 on dual Xeon's across the company (over 300 facilities nationwide). Yeah, if you're a tech company staying up to date is a cool thing. When your company makes and sells Stuff then you don't upgrade just for the heck of it.
(oh, and if anyone knows someone at Cisco in charge of their 3500 series ethernet switches, do me a favor and smack them around - they fail regularly whereas my old token ring concentrators Just Worked)
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
by 2005 Linux will have become a mainstream OS if it continues at this pace. What does Microsoft expect? Users to continue using XP until 2005 and then get longhorn? Have you all seen Longhorn? It doesnt seem to have any improvements.
Microsoft's only chance with longhorn is to pre-install it on every machine, if they lose their monopoly there Linux and even Apple will kick their ass.
This is my opinion, but currently Linux is becoming easy to use. 2 years from now it may be a complete success on the desktop or a complete failure, but considering every piece is in place I dont think Microsoft can afford 2 years.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I use Mozilla with the mouse gesture plug in, and I find it like mouse scroll wheels. If I go onto a browser without it, I try to use them anyway, just as when I sit down with a non-wheeled mouse, I'll try to use the wheel anyway.
And I do not think Microsoft can afford to do this. Linux is developing at a pace far above that of Windows, to actually give Linux a 2 year lead?! Thats suicide.
Redhat 9.1 will be coming out soon, along with new versions of Lindows and perhaps Mandrake, Microsoft will have nothing to respond to the new innovations.
All it will take for Linux to take over the desktop, is to advertise, Longhorn I hear wont be 100 percent compatible with XP just like XP isnt 100 percent compatible with 98, this gives Linux an edge in terms of software compatibility, at least for alittle while.
I'd like to see Lindows, Redhat and others see this news and target the desktop, within the next 2 years we need a few TV ads on the level of those priceline.com ads or the OSX ads, we need to see ads in PCgamer and many of those magazines marketing Linux, and we need to see ads outside on billboards.
Once we can make Linux a mainstream word, then you can convince users to go into a store and use Linux side by side with Windows.
Maybe allow people to tour the country in trucks and let people Demo linux, and then give out linux CDs.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Not sure about this Future Storage idea, sounds like they just stole something from BeOS and put it on thier *very secure, very reliable" SQL Server product. :-) Do I have the option of running DB2 or PostgreSQL instead of SQLServer? Sounds like the IE-OS integration issue all over again. Oh, down the rabit hole we tumble....
SPAM solution made easy: 1 spammer, 5 cords of rope, 5 hourses, and fireworks. Be creative.
Longhorn? Forget it. I'm now in the process to converting all my software to run on winPE. So thank you Microsoft...But no thanks.
Yes, just like we know that Slashdot submissions never have typos.
Your point? Oh, never mind, I don't care about Microsoft "releases" or typos.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Because they are no where near the same thing? Because browsing HTML and and finding files on a hard drive aren't analogous?
I think the web browser/file browser marriage is a big interface mistake. It shows in both Windows and KDE.
First I'm not anti Microsoft, I'm pro Innovation.
Microsoft does not innovate, name one product they created themselves.
Typical FUD from an anti-MS zealot. Of course you haven't seen many improvements in Longhorn. (there are some already, depending on your point of view). It's a freaking beta, with two years left before becoming gold.
Dont make excuses for them, people like you said this about Windows98, Windows98SE, Windows Millennium edition, and Windows XP.
The only version of Windows which to me was worth the upgrade were Windows95 and Windows2000. So every 5 years Microsofft releases a version of Windows worth using, perhaps 5 years from now Longhorn will be worth using, the problem is people dont want to wait 5 years.
"Tell me, did the Linux 2.5.1 kernel closely resemble what is the latest 2.5.x kernel today?"
No, see heres where you make your Mistake, Windows Longhorn is supposed to be BETTER than WindowsXP, its not just the kernel we are comparing here. Every year Linux advances at the rate Windows advances in 5 years.
5 years ago Linux was still commandline, KDE came around, now we have KDE 3.2 coming out. Look at the difference, you can look down the list and see hundreds maybe thousands of new features.
Look at longhorn, tell me just 1 worthwhile new feature which makes it so much better than XP? Dont give me that crap about Longhorn being brand new, its been in development for 2 years now, I knew about Longhorn way back in 2000-2001, its 2003 now. Considering they had 2 years to work on it in private before releasing developer previews, you can make any excuses you want.
People like you said the same stuff about WindowsXP, WindowsXP turned out to be Windows2000 with a new skin/theme.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
but it's interesting that there doesn't seem be an easy way for Linux to also offer this kind of file system. Sure you might say it's useless and what we have is good enough but say it was a good and usefull system (having it in a database seems to offer a large potential for interesting metadata/application interfaces to files) how would Linux developers go about implementing this in Linux? I mean no one company controls the kernel and a large database project like MySQL, and it seems that there would have to be pretty tight integration between those two parts for this kind of FS. Well this is just a thought, but theres no need to flame away at the actual idea but assuming it is valid how would we go about doing it on Linux?
"Longhorn" is instantly recognizable as a well-known breed of cattle.
To understand the choice of "Longhorn" as the product for the next version of Windows, let's consider a few well-known properties of cattle:
1. Cattle are unintelligent.
2. Cattle move slowly, and just look at you blankly when you tell them to move.
3. Cattle are huge, consisting mostly of fat.
4. From the perspective of cattle, the grass is always greener on the other side, so it's always worth upgrading to the next field. Although after you jump through the electric fence, you realize you didn't actually get anywhere better.
"A big change in Longhorn will be the new Windows Future Storage (WinFS) file system, based on SQL Server database technology and designed to give users a direct route to data, making the physical location of a file irrelevant. WinFS replaces the NTFS and FAT32 file systems used in current Windows versions."
Now i could be wrong (probably am)but doesn't FAT stand for File allocation table, so aren't they just revamping the FAT table system and calling it something new?
And the next linux kernel is due out when?
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
I know this is slashdot, and this will get me modded down for defending the uglies over in Redmond, but....
A lot of companies other than microsoft let their release dates slip on a frequent basis, because, quite frankly, software development, even lousy stuff with a poor security record, takes a long time. You can project a release date, but that is mostly an optimistic guess to appease the investors. You can threaten your techies all ya want, they will not code much faster, and if they do, they will make more mistakes, shit, even microsoft knows that.... least I hope they do.
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
Let's look at this rationally (not a common idea here on /.)
IE1 - bundled with the OS. Pretty awful. Netscape dominant
IE2 - bundled with the OS. Better but not as good as Netscape. Netscape dominant
IE3 - bundled with the OS. Slightly better than Netscape. Netscape loses market monopoly.
IE4 - bundled with the OS. Much better than Netscape. Netscape reduced to small player.
Care to explain why you think the part that stayed the same made the difference and the part that changed wasn't a factor?
I've already come to the realization that this site is not "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." as Slashdot likes to proclaim. It's really a tabloid with a severe problem of duplicates and submitters not reading the actual article. The lack of an editor is the problem here.
This is actually an anticipated release for me. The new file system will make things interesting how we 'work' with windows.
The WINFS was the much discussed database filesystem. To reflect, current NTFS file system has a location on a disk and it maintains that location for the lengh of the system. It has no real corolation to the other files and searching is just a raw, filename search. B/c of this, indexing services was created to mark the new files and where they are located (yet another service) for 'quick and easy' file searching. Another issue was the fact that files aren't grouped in a particular way. You'd have to categorize them yourselves (make specific directory names, etc.).
With a database file system you can eliminate some of the overhead and problems that plagued the NTFS which wasn't designed with multi-usablilty in mind (it's mind was more on file sharing and security... heh). No longer have to worry about indexing, and fragmentation (not really a problem on servers).
From what I understand, only a few companies like Oracle was able to achieve a database system (though it's not an OS).
A database file system could open a whole new option when creating a distributed environment.
... support, including all online support files, downloadables and knowledgebase articles, etc, are going to vanish forever off MS's websites at the end of 2004. January 2005 marks the absolute and complete end of all forms of support for NT4 from MS. Even says so in writing on MS's website, I read it there but don't have the URL handy right now.
If you think you're going to need to support NT4 yourself for any time after that, you'd better get started to downloading all the support materials you can *right now*, while it's still available. You've been warned.
I didn't like the begging for subscriptions either, so I added the following to my slashdot specific filter in privoxy:c h eliminates the damn add. Only problem is that privoxy won't do compression, and if a filter is applied, it needs the entire page, and thus slows loading, and kills incremental loading...
s|There.+?subscribe.pl.+?\:\)||siu
Whi
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
if you get it, get over it. it's not going to change unless you suddenly turn the target audience (that happens to be what it is because it's the audience itself who make the content)
besides, the more likely scenario is that they'll invent a totally unneeded product before longhorn ships and ship that before it (win me/98se style)....
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
But what was the point of your post? If it really bothers you, why are you on the site?
Because I generally enjoy the site. Is there something wrong with trying to improve a community that you like?
I think Slashdot could be a lot more interesting if it wasn't for all the hackneyed anti-MS posturing that is mandatory. Do we ever see stories on interesting stuff that Microsoft has done (e.g. Longhorn's database driven filesystem)? No we don't, and why not? Because we hate Microsoft.
Can you imagine how stupid Microsoft would look if every document they produced had some half-ass, unfunny, dig at Linux?
Is this the version they finally go to a monthly lease plan, instead of the current single payment for license arrangement?
Oh, and will it be time to obsolete all pre-longhorn software as is rumored ( and most likely hardware too )?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
MS is on the job
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone."
~Epictetus
i personally think M$ looks extremely stoopid with
monkey boyz take on the GPL and all things Linux...
but winderz fanboyz don't seem to and most others
don't pay enough attention to know better.
I have plenty of common sense, I just choose to ignore it. -- Calvin
I'm kinda sick of people saying the turnaround happened with IE 4.0. Yes, that had a lot of nifty new features. But Dog help you if you were any more demanding of your computer than the Average End User.
The MIS manager here practically had to pull teeth to get the staff (and the tech staff) to switch from Netscape 4.7 until we could mass migrate the workstations to 5.5 (boy, that was fun. not.). I think neither IE 4.0 or 5.0 were as good as Netscape 4.7 (Netscape 6.0 was a howler, though....), and for one specific reason: Any IE crash caused SERIOUS stability problems until 5.5 came out.
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what an application does on paper, or what it does when the conditions are right and the stars are aligned and all the world is in tune on a spring afternoon. It's how it handles the day to day workload, and - just as important - how well it plays with the other children. Prior to the 5.5 *coughs* patch *coughs*, not only did it not play well, it had the disturbing habit of running after the other children with a chainsaw.
Note: I use Mozilla, and if I had my way, so would the rest of the staff. Nice easy deployment , very easy given our network setup to pass out pop-up block lists, image block lists, e-mail preferences (i.e. NONE), java/javascript settings etc. Much better and less of a pain than Pop-up stopper/proxomitron/etc.
Random aside: My "favorite call of the week" is usually a user who is buried under a mess of pop-up windows. The really fun ones are the very rare occasions when I walk up and suddenly there's a panicked user trying to body-check me away from a computer that has windows filled with nekkid women popping up all over the desktop. Heh.
Searching for Truth, Justice, and the Guy Who Boosted My Wallet a Few Weeks Back....
And of course, we all know tha Microsoft release dates never slip...
1. It has already slipped from late 2004 which was a previous ETA.
2. If it slips, it slips. That's better than thinking the release date matters more than the quality.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
It's named after a bar in Whistler, BC (no, seriously). There are two ski hills at Whistler, Whistler mountain itself, and Blackcomb mountain. The village is at the foot of these two mountains and the bar "Longhorn" is a place where you might stop on the way from Whistler mountain to Blackcomb. XP (or was it Windows 2000?) was code-named "Whistler" and "Blackcomb" is the code name for the version of Windows after Longhorn. As a former Whistler resident (practically still am, really), I can only wonder what they were thinking - there are much, much better pubs in Whistler than the Longhorn (any Microsofties wanting advice on good places in Whistler: email me). Rob
As opposed to their government/court documented actual desire to grind their competition into the ground and take no prisoners. Sure, let's give the scourge of the software industry a pat on the back here and there.
Their main useful innovation in the last 3 years appear to be cloning Java and producing truly annoying copy protection schemes. Both are aimed at squeezing either a competitor or the consumer.
I'm crying a river for Microsoft. How much do they pay you, incidentally?
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
It's very surprising MS would let the date slip this far; I'm sure they would like to be getting some revenue from this next year. Apple will be on Mac OS X 10.5 by then!
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
And one would be wrong. Last time I checked, KDE is not an operating system.
The reason that nobody's crying foul on that, though, is because there are better browsers out there and people will go find them.
When you buy a computer from an OEM, they have Windows and IE pre=installed. Microsoft made sure of that. Sure, people could go out and find another browser (better ones too). But why should they? They have one built-in. Even if they did install another one, they couldn't get rid of IE.
Why are we rehashing all of this yet again? This is old news. The DOJ realized what they did was wrong, yet some people just don't get it.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I'm a college student, and I've just about had enough with Microsoft and windows. I've used Microsoft's windows and a couple of linux distributions, and I'd never buy another microsoft operating system again. I hope Microsoft enjoys its longhorn, along with its monthly charges, because they've lost another user(and hopefully the beginning of the masses leaving microsoft for linux or a mac).
You will submit the proper documentations and proofs of identity (yourself, your family, your friends, your neighbors, your coworkers, and others to be determined by Microsoft as befits each individual activation of your New Microsoft Product)to activate your New Microsoft Product at least one year BEFORE you purchase it. Any Fraud, Attempted Fraud, Suspected Fraud or Contacts Leading To Suspicion Of Fraud discovered during Microsoft's routine vetting proceedures shall be forwarded to the Cognizant Authorities (Local, State, Federal, Trilateral Commission, Other) who shall exercise such measures as are deemed necessary to properly reeducate you and see to it that you activate your New Microsoft Product properly the next time.
Is it fascism yet?
I think people forget that Windows Longhorn will deliver sometime in 2005, not at the beginning of 2005.
That gives the company lots of "padding" time to make sure a lot of the new features in Windows Longhorn work correctly, especially the replacement for NTFS. Given that Microsoft was founded in 1975, what better 30th anniversay present than to officially release Windows Longhorn to celebrate?
I don't think the Linux crowd can be absolved from the pre-announcement hype, either.
Take for example the current Linux 2.4.x kernel. Just how much delay before the first Linux 2.4.0 finally came out, despite a lot of promises? We do know that the 2.5.x development kernels for 2.4.x kernels have been released, but will the final versions be called 2.6.x or 3.0.x? And how long will THAT that take before it is released in a form that the major Linux distributions will bundle?
Actually, there are those using Windows Server 2003 as a desktop. DirectX, theming, and so forth are all supported, and because the operating system over all is faster (particularly when booting), there are people who have written guides for converting Windows Server 2003 for desktop use.
Longhorn won't be based on Windows XP's code; it will be branched from Windows Server 2003's. So it's not as crazy as it sounds. I'd be willing to try it.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Netscape 3 sucked?? That was Netscapes best browser at any point! small and still with the old UI. then Netscape 4 came along and - well, sucked hard... Can't understand how someone can fsck up so badly...
THank good the lizard is ok again with mozilla/phoenix....
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
2003 server has some great advantages over 2000. I suggest you read up before spouting off.
there orsered in a way to get the most money. whether or not it screws the consumer does not matter.
They care about making money, not screwing over the customer.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
What's so wrong about product activation? Seriously. Win XP's product activation isn't particularly sinister, and its goal is a legitimate goal for any publisher of closed-source software: Making sure that people installing the software actually own it.
Any Windows release prior to XP could be installed on as many computers as you wanted. There are offices out there with many multiple machines running a single copy of Windows 98.
XP does require the occasional reactivation if and only if substantial changes have been made to the hardware. It's happened to me a couple of times, and I haven't been bothered by it. Apple may not have such a "draconian" product activation scheme, but they don't need one because Apple gets most of its money from the hardware, not the OS.
If the unit cost of Longhorn is prohibitive, then Microsoft will die a fiery death, and that would be just. There's nothing wrong with Microsoft's death by the rules of the marketplace. But clamping down on illegal duplication may help reduce unit cost, if Microsoft manages its marbles correctly, and prevents me from paying as much as I would otherwise.
Besides, XP has reached a level of stability that is very high. I manage an office network of about 16 machines, all but two of which run XP. My computers are much, much more reliable than ever before. Sure, people will claim that computers running their choice of OS are better, and XP could be better, but that doesn't change XP's very good reliability. Will I upgrade to Longhorn? Probably not. But it's not an issue of the cost - it's an issue of whether or not the dollar cost is supported by the advantages of upgrading, and upgrading from a pretty stable system isn't necessary unless I need the new OS to support new software that I need. And since we're still using WordPerfect 6.1 for Windows, I don't think I'll need to upgrade any time soon.
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
if current trends keep up windows longhorn with have just the same startup/link times as my windows98 box (except longhorn will look prettier) on a pentium 166Mhz with 48MB of RAM.
that's what I read.
"One could make the argument that KDE is doing the same thing with Konqueror. The reason that nobody's crying foul on that, though, is because there are better browsers out there and people will go find them."
The really important thing (to me):
It is no problem for Linux users to "go find them"(other browsers), because every distro out there comes with more than one browser - you can find another one right on your doorstep.
[Back in '98 there might have been the additional problem of bandwith for many home users: you don't tend to download several MB without need if you only have one analog phone line for the whole family, an 28kbit/s modem and pay >5cent/minute to your telco monopolist back then..]
If Windows 98 had been shipped with IE and Netscape preinstalled, maybe browser statistics would be somewhat different today, don't you think?
You even managed to turn a confirmed release date into some snide little jab at MS....very mature crowd here....
"The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
Maybe Gates is having a little joke, but didn't want to be too obvious?
Of course, there is no offering the next year, and meanwhile the competitor lost some sales.
truly annoying copy protection schemes [...] aimed at squeezing either a competitor or the consumer
Explain to me exactly how Microsoft's copy protection schemes "squeeze" the consumers. The fact is that people run unlicensed copies of Windows and Office by the hundreds of thousands and MS wants to cut down on that. Can't say as I blame them.
So boo-fuckin-hoo for people who are pirating software, comrade. Why don't you work on developing your own opinion?
The fact that Apple shoulders the burden of pioneering new ideas certainly makes it easier for others to charge less.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
The last time I spent $800 all at once on my PC was when I bought a 486 motherboard with processor and 16 megs of RAM. [...] you'd be used to a $1000+ ream job at every upgrade. 'The Rest Of Us' (tm) aren't that kind of suckers.
To me, a sucker is someone who gets something other than what they are led to believe they are buying. This seems to be a common occurence among people buying wintel PCs. They expect a computer that takes care of itself, but end up having to babysit Windows as well as making sure Windows plays well with the actual machine.
Most people don't have the time, interest or skill to build their own computers and resolve the software/driver issues that come as a result. Most people buy a computer prebuilt.
The value of a wholeistic computer design is not widely grasped in the computer industry, but I believe it's the issue that's most important to consumers. They just don't realize when they buy a cheap machine they are likely buying a frustrating experience. The most effective way to combat that frustration is to a buy a computer that has been designed as a whole product.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Damn english language.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
The Longhorn might release you by 2005!
Patent: from Latin patere, to be open
"According to this article in PC World, Microsoft 'publicly confirmed 2005 as the release year for Longhorn, the successor to Windows XP.' And of course, we all know tha Microsoft release dates never slip..."
Then you probably would love these editorials (fake comments in italics):
"Well, Mandrake 9.1 is out for PPC processors and a nifty utility included is the Mac-on-Linux feature where you can run mac os 9/x in a window at native speed." Wow, Mac AND Linux at the same time. I must be in slow-poke one-button heaven.
Or: "OpenBSD's Theo De Raadt provides an update on his team's efforts to remove potential buffer overflows within OpenBSD code by always calculating. Yeah, like this effort is going anyhwere....
Hmm I think Oracle give MS a run for their money in the vapourware stakes
I had a pet once
A product that is not sold is vaporware; speculation, not real. Microsoft is important; they move and shake the industry. They keep intrest in their products by producing "beta's or alpha's". This marketing trick allows them to say: "this may be in tbe new product". The product will not ship for such a long time that producing static without these alpha's and beta's is legally iffie. If you get real, Longhorn is there for the long haul. Not for now and not for the next two years. Forget it for now it is not relevant. Thanks, Gerard