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'Pacemaker'-like GPS Device for Humans
LunarFox writes "Applied Digital Solutions has announced successful field trials of a prototype GPS device that can be implanted into humans. The device, which is internally rechargable, can wirelessly transmit location, movements and vital signs via the Internet, storing the info in a database. It's said to be the size of a pacemaker, but they intend to miniaturize it to one-tenth that size. You may recall this company as having designed the 'Digital Angel,' and 'Verichip,' a ricegrain-sized RFID chip like injectable pet tracking ID chips. This same company apparently made several denials in 2002 that their product(s) would be anything but externally worn. (like a wristwatch) Many other related links can be found at WorldNetDaily." On one hand the potential cool uses astound me, while the possibilty of abuse frightens me. A lot.
1. kidnap victim
2. operate on victim to remove tracking device
3. ask ransom
etc..
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
I'm not really into conspiracy theories, and generally not very paranoid; but this really makes you think of what "Big Brother" or anyone for that matter can do to track people.
I wonder what all the future applications of this device will be? I wonder if in the future they will require known convicted felons to wear these? Just think about all the scary applications such devices can be put to.
---
Mike
I'm going to kick the next person that I see with their karma rating in their sig.
great. just what i always wanted. soon companies will make it manditory to where these devices in the offices. Then acces to areas could obviously be much easier(computer knows that one is at a door and checks to see if you are allowed in/out and then only unlocks) but they can also monitor you movements. eg how many smokebreaks you take, how long you stay at your desk etc.
x-rays would tend to show if people had a GPS device with antennea implanted in them
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything" -- Josef Stalin
we're actually building a location based game you can play through a regular web browser right now, so i guess this tech will give us a bunch of NPCs?
- that guy
p.s.: first?
So where do I get my "career chip"?? :-P
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
Interesting how this is posted hours after How to Fake a Hard Day at the Office [/.]. Just when we thought we had outsmarted them...
I'll take it, but only with an extension module: I want to run my own webserver inside myself. Must be a chilling experience to personally get DoSed.
Body required... (for post and implant...)
All those folk with a cell phone?? You allready have one of these, no need to fret. Just have 3 base stations sent pings to your phone, triangulate position, and big brother will be there shortly. Oh, your phone is not turned on? Sok, no need for it to be on. This type of device continues to become more popular, and the amount of power that goes into the hands of people who control this is amazing. Just because its in the terms of service that they will not release this information, how much would it take for someone who REALLY wanted to find you to go see a low level tech @ the cell phone place, pay a bit of $$, and whamo get your exact position and heading. The age of privacy has been over for a long time, people are just waking up too it.
No I didnt spell check this post...
but nobody needs to track him... everybody knows he is at his bunker at Camp David!
You can't be too sure. Many devices do not show up as completely x-ray opaque, and if placed in an appropriate position in the ends of major bones with well shaped antenna would be quite invisible to x-rays. Indeed they may be able to extract power from them. Also many people have tooth fillings which can be used to hide just about anything, not to mention the complexity of the skull bones around a nasal cavity. Do you know your own well enough to be certain of what it SHOULD look like?
when the US may reduce non-military GPS accuracy?
0 24 7&mode=nested&tid=126&tid=103
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/19/034
The potential for abuse is more terrifying, really.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Military? Are you saying the alien abductions and implants left in the abductees are connected to secret programs run by the US Military? Using timeshared UFO technology? That's ridiculous, Mulder.
Oh, I've had x-rays and the doctors have told me what they saw - I don't have the training to distinguish one vague blob from another. Presumably if I did have one implanted the doctors would be disallowed to tell me - in much the same way as a system administrator (in the UK at least) is not allowed to tell someone that the police are monitoring their emails.
There are many that say ``If you don't want the police to know, you must be guilty of something.''
1. Victim enters hospital for medical treatment
2. Tracking device is implanted "accidently"
3. Track victim
4. ???
5. Profit!!!
Who will be the first one to sell the tracking info database to an advertisement company?
Forget about cookies, the "body" will be tracked. With an accurate map it is easy to gain enormous information about the life of the person.
Captain Picard: Computer, where is Commander Data?
Computer: Lieutenant Commander Data is no longer aboard the Enterprise.
I can't wait for a Blog featuring a 'ViewWhereIam feature'(tm).
I've had xrays of myself done and they look completely normal. What's the problem?
We were frantically patching our beloved systems for Y2K compatibility crap, faithfully taking backups and all - the most frequently asked qn. was:
Will this work on Jan 1st 2000?
After a while, things got so paranoid, and my boss wondered innocently:
Are you sure we'll be alive on Jan 1st? Our hearts and brains are Y2K OK?
Made us all laugh then.. but if these GPS pacemakers were around, we wouldn't have been laughing surely.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
The new era of 'Embedded SpyWare'
...how the company sees this in terms of immediate practical applications.
I could understand if this was one of those long-sighted DARPA projects that hails from an unlimited budget and a mandate to invent, but a company like this has shareholders to whom they must justify their actions. So what's the immediate market for this device? Even with the "War On Terrah" progressing at a rapid pace, I can't see implanted GPS's being compulsory anytime soon.
So who's got ideas for the potential use/market for these devices? Paranoid parents wanting to know their children's location at all times? A replacement for medic-alert type bracelets or similar? I somehow can't see this returning on its initial investment in terms of sales, given the risks associated with anaesthetics/implantation in non-subcutaneous tissues weighed against such a trivial funcionality gain.
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
Apart from the terrible Flash thingie on the frontpage, something else struck me with this website.
Top left corner. Happy white couple. Take a look at the lower right corner.. a dog, a chinese boy and a black boy. Where I come from, likening chinese and blacks with dogs are racist.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
The CIA implanted a chip to read my mind 20 years ago. The only bad thing is whenever I'm near a microwave my skull starts vibrating showtunes :)
Monsieur, vous me voyez fort aise de votre renfort.
Pensez-vous que ces mangeurs de biguemaques vont continuer à nous casser les esgourdes avec leur babil d'amibes-monosynaptiques ?
perfect for ex-cons and people under house arrest
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Of course, obvious privacy comments aside, this would be interesting in coordination with this old slashdot article which called for real time map generation by having volunteers wear GPS devices. A system like this would be allow planners to construct reliable road and interstate systems based on actual volume of traffic instead of estimates.
I know a friend of a friend who has this ability. Have seen proof shown me once only with police software, and presumeably somesort of network access (??). Sounds like bs, and looked like it.
:p
Yet proof was definate - we both waited months while he built up a number of people to prove it to, at same time to cut down chance of getting caught. Our positions of our turned-on mobiles at the time were all correct, though mine was predictable anyway (at work).
However, bear it in mind even if you don't belive this (I wouldn't), there's always the police
...until they start injecting this into people to "reduce terrorism".
worse than a mobile? powered?
A blog I run for the wealth
The aliens gave me one of these a long time ago. Didn't cost a thing, either.
IAAL
finding where grandma wandered off to!
...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
..who misread the topic as 'Peacemaker'-like GPS device?
Come to think of it, a Colt-shaped GPS reciever would look impressive..
Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
For fellow geeks with P800s, just put it in "flight mode" for the same effect.
"I could super-impose an RF signal on the telephone line that would "jump" or "short" out the hook switch on the phone effectively creating an off-hook condition" has precisely bog-all to do with modern GSM digital handsets.
Also, any site with a cute .gif button mentioning "The Ark of the Covenant: against Satan New World Order" probably isn't exactly a technical journal, dig?
This approach is actually being used by some telephone companies here in Denmark. They can track you, and when you're at home they'll give you a low minute rate.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
So they're not going to be implanting these while you're not looking, unless they can also talk you into recharging it yourself later.
The overall ickiness of having something inserted, plus of course the overtones of nazi tatoos will stop this being mandatory for a very very long time.
It's the biometric id cards/credit cards/mobile phones that'll be the really useful peasant-tracking devices. They don't need RFID implants.
Besides - there'd only be a market in back-street surgeons/hackers to take them out again. This wouldn't be a terribly effective way of tracking criminal types (it would be fine for ordinary citizens of course, but then they're easy enough to find at the moment anyway).
Also these could be implanted to the areas that are protected from x-rays.
For example near genitals.
How long till they make it mandatory?
Will your doctor install it at your next checkup?
Will military and government jobs require you to have one?
This is Big Brother, Sister, Mother, Father, and the rest of the whole Freaking 1984 family!
I would like a little more proof that this was intended to be racist. The obvious intent is to identify tracking children and pets as a use.
One of the major problems I have with accusations of racism is that behavior frequently is assumed to be racist without any investigation. To illustrate, a few years ago a news program covered racial sensitivity training that a resturant chain was ungoing as part of a court settlement. Cashiers were told to always place the change in the hand of the customer, never on the counter. Because many blacks interpret putting the money on the counter as meaning "you don't want to touch them." This hit me directly, because I have a habit of putting it on the counter regardless of whether the person is white, black, or other. Mainly because I found it easier. So the question becomes how many people thought I was racist, for doing something that I do to everyone. My futher thought is, I want more proof that things are racist before believing so. Racism exists, but not every innocent act is racist.
4. Profit.
/.
Gosh ! First time I see someone divulging his ultra confidential business plan on
Did you patent it first ? 8p
Now I'm waiting for the silly jokes...
btw a good solution to prevent this to work if implanted would be putting the kidnappee in one of those highly reflective emergency covers (the gold and silver ones)...
Also I can't begin to imagine what would have happened to me if my Mom had had access to this sort of tech 8(
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Well, if you were to make it out of a thin, soft plastic material, and make the wires extremely thin, it wouldn't show up on x-ray. it would, however show up on ultrasound.
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
What the hell is a "high-risk" country and why would they want such device?
... that in the future you'll have to mumify yourself in copper wires / sit in a copper cage every time you wank?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
Many devices do not show up as completely x-ray opaque
True, but you'd be hard pressed to create an electronic device that would not show up in an MRI. Any metal at all would create field distortion--and the plastic parts of the device would show up in the field as different from surrounding tissue.
Also, I don't think these would be undetectable by PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scanners--they find everything, including that chewing gum you swallowed a few months ago...
Q: "Why do sound techs say 'check 1, 2'?"
A: "Cause if they could count any higher they'd be lighting techs."
- [...] can wirelessly transmit location, movements and vital signs via the Internet, storing the info in a database.
Sorry, but that sounds like one of these post-modern patent applications. "Via the internet"I hardly think anyone's building a device a tenth of the size of a pacemaker that will continuously transmit "ASL"-data (or whatever) to a satellite, or even the cell phone network. Bluetooth, WLAN, whatever, yea, but I don't expect to see anyone being tracked across the Austalian outback with one of these anytime soon.
As for the plus side:
Finally - a rational use for that aluminium foil beanie. Now *that's* newsForNerds/stuffThatMatters.
yes, we have no bananas
The device, which is internally rechargable
::shudder as goatse image jumpes into head::
What does internal rechargable mean? You don't have to take it out to recharge it? Where do you plug in the power cord at night?
can wirelessly transmit location, movements and vital signs
User number 4859932 has had 8 orgasms while sitting in front of computer. Net logs show massive pr0n downloads during same time frame.
Could also be used to track the movements of a spouse/SO if you think something is up. "Honey are you sure you worked a double shift yesterday and you were not at the strip club for 6 hours before going to a stippers house and had sex? - Well, ok - as long as your sure."
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
In a related article, media and advertising companies are lobbying GWB to allow them access to the data from such devices to allow them to change wall-mounted adverts to reflect the person that is walking past them...
In more related material, B. Gates has implemented a functionality into windows that allow it to confirm that the person using the computer is a licensed user.
"Eventually", a spokeperson for the whitehouse starts,"we will own the arses of everyone."
Karem
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
You guys are missing the great potential of a device like this- Sex Offenders, Murderes and such would have one of these implanted and presto- no more missing fugatives and chester molesters.
I don't mind Big Brother watching, so long as he's watching out for my children...
Submit to the chip, join The Club - or live on the outside. Very scary.
Lojack For Humans.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
It has probably been posted on Slashdot before (and been thoroughly pooh-poohed), but "Digital Angel" sounds an awful lot like the "Digital Demon" mentioned in Revelation chapter 13, the "Mark of the Beast" (666). In Rev. 13, everyone is required to get a mark before they can buy or sell.
It seems odd that John would come up with the idea that you would have to have a mark (I'm told it means "etching, as with a needle" in the Greek, but I'm sure some Greek-speaking-geek here can probably shoot that down if it isn't correct) to buy and sell. I'm sure he was thinking of it as a tatoo that they would merely look at, before allowing you to use your cash. He probably wasn't thinking of a "cashless society", but I've often heard people talk about the benefits of a cashless society (thwart drug-dealers, kidnappers, extortion rings, etc). Supposedly, we'd all start with a "debit card" arrangement. But they could be stolen or forged. An implanted chip would be harder to fake.
As a starting point to mandatory chipping, I've heard people suggest that you would chip criminals, aliens, and of course, "the scum of the earth".... gun owners! If you want to own a gun, you must get a tracking chip! Small price to pay for a "privilege" that the government lets you have...
I'm not saying that D.A. would be the Mark, just that it sounds hauntingly familiar... that similar technology could be used for that purpose.
So most readers here probably don't read or believe the Bible, but if you see it happen someday..... think about it.
dochood
The first thing that comes to my mind is prisoner control, like in Fortress. A GPS device, a receiver and a small amount of explosive....
Why can't the same be applied to medical/life/personal insurance given all these fancy tracking tools?
If this goes ahead, then "Proof of Life" would be one very short movie, and that guy Russel Crowe plays would be unemployed.
You do not want ex-SAS people who kill heavily armed guerillas, employing nothing but a leatherman wave and a tightly puckered lower-bowel, to be just sitting around in their houses with nothing to do all day.
I want an interface. If I get lost, I want to be able to use it. I'm not interested if Joe Schmoe can find me if I can't find myself...
Then again, it would be a great device for tracking the elderly when they wander off in a fog. I have an ancient and venerable mother whose hippocampus and therefore her ability to process short-term memory is "flambayed".
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Frightened? Just think how effective we could fight terrorism! Every person in the US could be tracked, we could see who they meet and if they're sleeping, working maybe, in the future, what they're talking about. Of course, only criminals who have something to hide would fear this prospect.
Yes a device like that is frightening, especially in the hand of a totalitarian regime like the United States' government.
(Yes, mod me down... I know there are regimes where I couldn't say something like that without risking my life and I'm grateful I can still say that. But the US government do put people in jail without accusing them properly, they torture people outside the country, etc. Just say a person is a suspected terrorist and he automatically loses all human rights. I can still say I disapprove of that. But I'm afraid it's slowly becoming like the USSR in Stalin's times...)
I don't need a signature.
To read what one author has written regarding tracking and stored data on humans, read:
http://www.sfwriter.com/exho.htm
Really good trilogy so far and it raises the question whether no privacy can benefit a society.
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
Being born in 1968, I guess any such implant would be about the size of a football.
1. kidnap victim (particularly one of public importance or of substantial wealth)
2. operate on victim to install tracking device
3. release victim
4. Track victim to collect compromising evidence
5. Ask for ransom
6. Profit
Meanwhile, you open up or set up a collaboration with a chip removal facility.
7. Ask for ransom
8. Operate to possibly remove chip
9. Profit.
Repeat as needed.
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
If you had the choice between being in jail and undergoing an operation that would let you get out, which would you choose?
I'm not sure that they would use this with criminals anyway. It would seem more secure to me to add it externally with a lock for criminals. Internally, it seems to me that they would just get another operation and have it removed.
That would turn some bloggers into bullet magnets.
Can you imagine someone putting the WhereIam on their slashdot journal and having hoardes of screaming admins running after them yelling "Ask before you link! ASK BEFORE YOU LINK!!!!"
If you're female that might not be so bad.
Doing anything friday night?
Especially one the size of a snuff can (2 1/2 inches in diameter by a half inch thick).
Even if they shrink it, it's still going to be frickin' huge!
Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to tatoo "remember Sammy Jenkis" all over her?
Cool use: Ability to keep track of your girlfriend/boyfriend/significant other.
Frightening abuse: Your girlfriend/boyfriend/significant other keeping track of you.
[insert witty quote here]
Hey, it looks like Galeon saved the subject from my last post. How... useful.
[insert witty quote here]
and why skip over (4) profit?
Frightened? Just think how effective we could fight terrorism! Every person in the US could be tracked, we could see who they meet and if they're sleeping, working maybe, in the future, what they're talking about.
Santa's been doing that for years.
That means, instead every year we'll be going to Tom Ridge to ask for a an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
When it comes to the military for finding POW's and those listed as MIA.
:-)
Ever see on your local news elderly persons who wander off and are confused due to dementia or alzheimer's? They frequently don't come back alive. Their personal rights have been signed off and a nursing home (wary of being sued when they loose one of their charges) might make it a condition upon entry.
And of course, for every geek that wants to make him/herself into the borg.
But, for every good reason, there will be many more potential abuses.
Field researchers have tons of tracking applications, and they're always using transmitters in awkward collars and so on. Not having the thing on the surface where it can get bashed around by the hard lives animals lead (and interfere with their range of motion and so on) might be an advantage?
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Looking for a good scare? Check out the mindset of people who think this is a great idea! http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q&board=ADSX (as long as THEY get paid...they could care less if those funny-talking foreigners, or even Americans themselves, are outfitted with silicone slave chains)
If you hav a Motorola i88s phone with Nextel service you can download an app that updates a web page with your location.
Free cell phone tracking
You can view this really cool hack here.
This guy has his GPS cellphone periodically sending a single UDP package with his coordinates to his server, that builds a http-GET you can click to locate him on MapQuest.
Pretty neat.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
I can just image the commercial now:
Can you find me now? Can you find me now? Can you...
Frightens you. A lot.
Ba-duuuummmmm!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAH
!
Don't try that "protecting the children" shit you people use to keep the tits and bad words off my TV. --Seanbaby
The Patriot Implant by Halliburton. Only terrorists refuse them.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
For the military: tracking down wounded soldiers to bring them back to medical facilities or locating captured/MIAs.
For explorers or other remote personel: tracking down wounded or missing explorers (people still die in jungles, the outback, while hiking in the mountains, etc.)
For legal defense: a lot of people are worried that the government will be able to track them; this is a good thing if you are falsely accused and can prove that you were somewhere else.
For epidemic tracking and prevention: with diseases like SARS, it might be possible to trace back and find all the people that were exposed to a pathogen or even find a common source when non is obvious by cross referencing the paths of the victims.
For disasters: this may help locate victims of floods, avalanches, collapsed buildings, etc., especially those that aren't even known to be missing or in danger.
science is a religion
Just put one of these inside a 'vitamin' pill. Have the trackee swallow. No surgery necessary, you get to track his movements for a day or two, and all evidence is removed completely.
Ok some good uses for this and some bad. THe way governments are currently going i'd be thinking that they would use it for bad, under the guise of good.
Good Stuff
Keeping track of children, old people,criminals
Finding lost people. At sea, in the wilderness what ever
Bad Stuff
Tracking our whereabouts
Advertising
Who knows
Only problems with using it to track criminals is that they would probably work out how to remove them.
Imagine removing one then tying to your dog or something.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
that's new possibilities for suicide bombing...
I don't need a signature.
Okay, so when are those gonna include a career chip ???? That would be the perfect thing to track delivery boys ...
Ever seen the movie Proof of Life? Takes place in a country where kidnapping and ransome is a business. This would be usefull for executives or other potential targets in areas like that.
Now we'll have to endure more of those obnoxious "everyone in Aluminum Foil" adds from the Gap stores...
This is a great idea to implant into convicted felons, and I'm not talking about little felony convictions, I'm talking about "Life without Parole" and "Death Row" inmates. The devices could be implanted inside an individual and secretly hidden, as in the case of the Star Wars slave Anakon Skywalker, or perhaps a large intestonator ball like in the movie Fortress. Inmates who misbehaved got "intestonated", or rather, experienced writhing pain in their intestines from the little devices. Powering the device would not be problematic since the technology already exists to power electronics with body heat.
Is it proprietary communication or may I use Perl to write my own personal tracker application reporting every heartbeat to my very own MySQL database thru SSH tunnels? Imagine every heartbeat is a row in a database showing where and when it occured. You can spend the rest of your life making summarizing reports. Well, if that's the case, I'm in. Otherwise, drop the big brother stuff and show us the source!
Girls are strange. They don't come with a man page.
-- Michael Mattsson
No possibility - an ironclad guarantee of abuse.
If you think otherwise, you have not been paying attention.
Trinity has a virus removing widget that will prolly work. Stings a little though.
The judge called it a tragic accident.
Accident? Aren't guns banned in the UK? Anyone with a gun in the UK is a criminal just for having a gun. The judge's attitude toward the criminal seems to be "Poor, poor laddie he dinna mean to kill her. He just committed a tragic series of voluntary criminal acts by getting a gun and loading it and then accidentally shot her to death." Yeah, right.
This is as bad as Tony Martin being refused parole as 'danger to burglars'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/ne ws/2003/01/17/nmart17.xml
Maybe tagging everyone is a good idea and let's cache the data on where everyone has been for about a year. <sarcasm>Then execute everyone that is reported to be within 500 meters at the time of death if a death cannot be ruled as 'natural causes'.</sarcasm>
Something embedded transmitting vital signs and GPS will use a reasonable amount of power. Batteries can't hack it because rechargeables need replacement after one to two years. Its no problem if it is something to help you live (i.e., a pacemaker), otherwise would you really want the thing replaced so often?
Personally, I think this is just a project to get Homeland Insecurity money and VC funding.
See my journal, I write things there
SkyBitz, a Virginia company, has developed a similar device a few years ago. Last I've heard (late 2000), they've been in talks with the Pentagon to get this device implanted into all soldiers, for more precise command and control.
SUBDERMAL GPS
+ Reality TV
+ Cops
-------------
Running man, here we come!
---
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
Comitt a crime, go to jail for 10 years as punishmnet, and never be able to get a decent job again. OH, and no more rights, despite having paid your debt to society, whatever that means.
DOnt get me wrong, im not about going easy on criminals, but i also think that theres a limit to how long you can keep kicking someone before they just stop giving a shit, because thay have nothing left to loose.
I have no problem using this for house arrest, and probation/parole purposes. But once someone has served their time, AND shows good prospects for rehabilitation, please leave them the fuck alone and let them get on with their lives. I personally think once someone is finished with their prison term/probation/and whatnot, they should get ALL their rights back and get their record wiped clean after a time. However, i also think that there are some people who cant be turned loose ever again. THin charles manson.
ANd before you start wailing about teh expense of keeping somone locked up forever, remember, abot 90% of the prison budget is for drug related stuff, granted, a good portion of that is turf war murders and such. How much more effective at rehabilitation would prisons be if you sould focus 90% more resources on that 10 percent that would be left?
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
"I've fallen and I can't get up"
Seriously; the health monitoring industry isn't that small. What if you could implant a device in your alzheimers patient grandfather, so he couldn't forget to put it on, and you could always find him if he wandered away, and an instant 911 call went out if he started having an irregular heartbeat, crazy blood pressure, etc.
I think this thing has some SERIOUSLY good potential uses. But as typical on slashdot, every technology is only seen in the most paranoid possible way. Hey, it's a good idea to think of how new technologies can be abused, but get real; the mere existance of this technology does not immediately create a police state in which everyone can be forced to have the chip implanted. It's society that decides whether such a thing can happen to law-abiding citizens (and yes, who is defined as "law-abiding").
Technology is neither good nor bad, nor does it promote good or bad behavior. It may enable a behavior but it does not, on its own, immediately cause a police state or any other societal change, unless and until society is ready to change.
Non-law-abiding citizens already have this, it's called a radio collar.
where literally asking "Excuse me, but did you just mean to insult me" or "did i do something to offend you" has quickly de-escalated an arguement.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
In the UK, convicted pedophiles are held on a nation wide sex register for life. When ever they move town they have to register their whereabouts with the police. Despite this, many of them re-offend and the cost is sometimes a childs life and devastated family/community.
So it strikes me that this would be a great help in the battle against habitual pedophiles. If on release from prison they were legally chipped and their location tracked 24hrs, then the incidents of death by re-offenders should drop dramatically.
And yeah I know, its a breach of human rights, blah blah. But IMO, anyone who sexually violates a child for their own gratification forfeits their claim to the rights that the rest of us enjoy. And there are millions of parents all over the world who'd sleep better at night.
Macka
A worried crowd gathers on Main Street:
Dr. Watson here! Make way people... out of the way... I'm a doctor! Turn him over and let me look at him. MY GOD!!! Look at his skin color. This man's has a pacemaker BSOD! Quick, shove that LILO floppy down his throat while I hold his mouth open!
Cleaning out horse stables? It seems to come naturally to me after being laid off from the Trustworthy Computing Project...
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. - Geek's corollary to Clarke's law
How is it easier for you to put it on the counter? The customer usually has their hand out in the first place, or will put it out if you motion towards them. I know I hated it when customers just plop their money down... especially when my own hand was out, ready. It's plain rude to just put the money down on the counter... whether you are the cashier OR the customer.
I worked Retail for over 7 years at different places, and I was always told to put the change in the customer's hand. You are not there to have an easy job, you are there to service the public, and to give them a good experience.
FM888
I just had this thought: Yes, government use of an implantable tracking device has a lot of implications for infringing on my privacy. But it also has substantial non-infringing uses.
...
And then my head began to hurt. It has always fascinated me how some technologies are vilified BECAUSE of their potential for abuse, whereas others are idolized DESPITE their potential for abuse. Which is right? I don't have the answer, but I do know its fun to watch.
And no, I'm not suggesting that Big Brother watching my every move is in any way equivalent to me downloading the latest Britney Spears via p2p. Although if I'm listening to Ms. Spears, maybe someone SHOULD keep an eye on me
How many times here has this situation come up here in the reverse direction? We're all quite happy to tell corporations to fuck off when they point out how we might abuse our new toys. "You damn corporations can't stop technological progress", remember? Well, neither can us geeks. These devices WILL arrive and they WILL gradually enter more and more of our lives. The ability to find the location of any unique object on demand has applications we can't even dream of. And *everything* can be used for ill if you put your mind to it.
Maybe the US could implant all NATO troops (except the french) with these devices.
Imagine devices like these replacing password verification. Tie that in with Palladium and you've extended the secure hardware model past the computer.
So everyone get implanted and, oh yeah, sign up for Microsoft Passport. And then you can buy and sell everything securely with a little chip under your skin....
Oh... wait...
is when it's compulsory and/or can't be removed or tampered with without making you sick or killing you. First it will be required for parolees/house arrestees, then will slowly make its way everywhere. And students will be tracked this way, the "authorities" will just not remove the device after you graduate from high school.
Do these guys have something to do with the *trak scam unearthed by Wired 5 years ago?
It's just a BloJJ
Eventually, somebody will do this, but it probably won't be Digital Angel. NTT DoCoMo is more likely to make it happen. They're now shipping a wrist cell phone.
Jack
You passed your Driver lic. test with flying colors!!
Now BEND OVER any take this intrusive GPS based tracking module up the ass like a man.
No sir, it simply allows us to track your every movement, send you tickets for your traffic violations and send out the death squad when you try and cancel your MSN account.
Have a nice day!!
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
The black helicopters are coming for you all.
IAALS.
BBN (Bolt Beranak & Newman -- one of the inventors of the internet) has had this government contact building what is called the 'bodylan' - among other things, a pill can be swallowed which will allow satellites to track you from orbit (until excreted).
I've heard this 3rd hand so I could have some of the details wrong -- anyone care to add/correct?
nt
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
You might get a decreasing rate for a while but as your rate declines someone else's rate will increase. Soon the 'bad' risk drivers are all marginalize and pushed out of the insured pool because they can no longer pay the increased rate. Soon the shrinking pool of insured drivers causes a rebound in the rate. So you lose.
In many states the auto insurance business is 'no fault' i.e., your insurance pays the damages to the other driver and the other driver's insurance pays damages to you. Since bad drivers now can't afford insurance you are more likely to be stuck trying to get relief through the court and even if you win your damages how can the other driver pay? So you lose.
The some other state 'no fault' rules work like this: 1. Everyone must have insurance and everyone's rate it the same. 2. The state sets the rate based on the payout + administration costs across the state. 3. The state collects your insurance premium as part of your vehicle registration fees. Since the market forces are not present to minimize the direct costs of insurance, and since when have public programs had lower administrative costs than private sector, the premium soon reaches $3000-$5000 a year per vehicle. This means even if you can buy a $500 junker you have to pay ~$4k extra a year every year to drive it. This forces low wage earners out of the job market because they can't drive to work. So they go on the dole and you pay them to sit at home and drink beer. Or you could pay a tax for a good public transportation network that you don't use to let the low wage folks get to work to keep them off the dole but in the end you still pay. So you lose.
I can imagine that it only takes one more small step to swap out the pacemaker/monitoring hardware for a small explosive device. Step outside your "allowable area" and *POOF*, your chest explodes. Of course, it's the who defines the "allowable area" that worries me...
At least I won't have to fill out my timesheet anymore...they'll be able to tell when I was programming and when I was crapping.
Think about that for a second. Right now, when someone is taken as a hostage, they're usually beaten and interrogated. Not Geneva, but certainly SOP, even for the U.S. (though *we* know better than to leave marks)
So, what you're guaranteeing here is that not only will they be beaten, but someone's going to whip out a knife and go digging for the tracking chip; a procedure from which you will suffer a great deal of pain and could possibly die of infection. Great.
Of course, if your captors are smart, until they locate the chip or after they kill you, they will just keep you in a wire-mesh cell of the appropriate guage and density to block the signal.
For explorers or other remote personel: tracking down wounded or missing explorers (people still die in jungles, the outback, while hiking in the mountains, etc.)
Carry a cell in a zipped pocket. If you're paranoid, carry an extra in your bed-roll. No need to go in for surgery (which, I guarantee will cost more than that backup cell).
For legal defense: a lot of people are worried that the government will be able to track them; this is a good thing if you are falsely accused and can prove that you were somewhere else.
Legitimize that database as evidence and the risks are gigantic. Want to convict someone you don't like of any old arbitrary crime? All you need is a friend on the inside. Talk about the world's most powerful DBA!
For epidemic tracking and prevention: with diseases like SARS, it might be possible to trace back and find all the people that were exposed to a pathogen or even find a common source when non is obvious by cross referencing the paths of the victims.
Let me re-phrase that:Need I go on? Please don't tell me that you are naive enough to think that this would never happen. Look at the rape-rooms in Iraq. Look at the mass exterminations in Serbia. Look at the abuses of Central and South American countries (Argentina and El Salvador make for particularly brutal examples). Some minority group that enough people hate will be first. Gays? Arabs? Blacks? Jews? Hispanics? Socialists? It won't matter. When it comes, and it will someday, even if it's not this decade or even this century, the tools that those people have will make all the difference. Nazi Germany's abuses would not have been "practical" pre-industrial revolution. Saddam's total control was mostly based on fear, and I'm sure listening devices and advanced optics helped breed that fear (of course, randomly killing half of his own power structure helped).
What tools would you like to add to that arsenal? Choose wisely.
For disasters: this may help locate victims of floods, avalanches, collapsed buildings, etc., especially those that aren't even known to be missing or in danger.
Again, carry a cell. We don't have to keep a database of where anyone has been (though, we probably do...) in order to find them in a crunch. We also do not have to have our cells turned on all day, ever day in order to have this work well in general. Risk vs. reward is the concept that we should be applying.
Put on in every secret services agent. that'll make season finales harder to write...
On a serious note, if I was in law enforcement or any dangerous field and I could get something that would trigger on a change in my vitals and call the 'cavalary' I would probably ber first in line to get it shoved in my butt...
On one hand the potential cool uses astound me, while the possibilty of abuse frightens me. A lot.
Shut up and bend over.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Repent Harlequin! Said the Tick-Tock Man sprang to mind immediately
This device will be powered off your own body heat, and although this is just a guess your entire body could potentially be the Antenna. They will probably start with the military, then criminals, and then to increase there wealth they will market it to parents to protect there children. (As the company already does.) I would also imagine that they will link this up with a more extensive database, that tracks everything you do. From whatever you buy at the supermarket, to where you go, what kind of "mental" state your in, if your excited, happy, sad. And it could also be linked up to your credit accounts, so that you can't buy or sell anything. (The convineance of this devise is how they'll get the rest of us to use it) I need some new Gap Jeans, a new Gap Hat, and shirt. Ok, wave your hand over this Ms. Dumbkopf. Presto. This will allow total Micromanagement of your life, restriction from areas, restrictions to healthcare, privliages granted to those that Obey! Its you're total Mark of the Beast Global Tracking System, and your Globalists Dream Device.
I CLE_ID=32572
I'm posting this article because it has some more links at the bottom about this company, that has had nothing but financial problems. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ART
Also for those that are interested http://news.phaseiii.org
If it's actually GPS, then it needs a clear line of sight to a good number of satellite signals. Usually I can't even go under a dense canopy of leaves, let alone sticking my GPS under my skin in an office building or under a heavy coat...
How is this thing going to be useful for anyone but the nudist outdoorsman clubs??
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
Does anyone else find this scary? I don't really like the idea of having a tracking device (or any other) implanted in my body. Unless it has an off switch that I can control, it will be implanted into my dead body.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
I would like to know the legal implications of if say, an elderly person had one of these implants because of a heart condition or something, and this person or thier family failed to pay their bill. If there was an alert at the monitoring center that this person collapsed, but since they didn't pay their bill, no service would be performed. Would they have to just let the person die even though they were aware of the problem?
The land of San Angeles (Demolition Man) "What are you scratching at, CaveMan? You were implanted the second you were thawed" At least in the future all restaurants are now Taco Bells....
http://www.tomandemily.com
From Private Eye's 'Funny Old World' section:
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/fow.htm
"Every time this happens, it's a disaster," Claes Foghmoes of the Danish Crematorium Owners Association (DCMA) told reporters in Copenhagen, "and the explosions are happening more and more often these days. Whenever there's a blast, it disables the entire mechanism, and we have to let the oven cool for two to three days, before we can go inside to change the parts. And as a result, we're often left with a backlog of bodies, which have to be rerouted to other crematoriums."
Earlier, Dr Niels Bloch of the Medical Officers Association had described how explosions were disabling or destroying crematoriums throughout Denmark, because doctors forget to remove pacemakers from deceased patients. "It's my impression that these accidents aren't due so much to forgetfulness, but to the fact that the doctor who signs the death certificate often isn't aware that the deceased has a pacemaker to begin with. Lithium batteries are commonly used in pacemakers, and they explode like TNT when exposed to extremely high temperatures. This sort of explosion is so powerful that the crematory oven brickwork, heat sensors, and cover can all be irreparably damaged, and the DCMA then sends damage bills of up to DKK 100,00 to liable hospitals and doctors.
"What we need is legislation that makes it a matter of standard procedure for patients to have the word 'pacemaker' tattooed to their chests when they are fitted with one. How can doctors know otherwise, except by asking them? And of course, when the patient is dead, that line of enquiry becomes rather tricky." (The Danish Post, 4-10 April 2003. Spotter: Tom Sandars)
Read Epic the first RPG novel.
If the aliens can do it, we should be able to, also. :)
You could in theory build devices that react to this. Missiles that track you down. Landmines that will only blow up the person who has the ID. The main problem is what happens if you could swap them around. A terrorist could kidnap you and take it out.
I also get to be a cyborg with the strength of 5 gorllaz and jets so i can flip out like wolverine and take out the bad govt. guys coming to get me.
How about cyber stalking? Now you don't need to follow them, you just need to know there name....Oh look they're at disney world and when I get home I'm gonna kill'em
science is a religion
On one hand the potential cool uses astound me, while the possibilty of abuse frightens me. A lot.
This sentence could follow every story ever posted here. I'm convinced CowboyNeal is a bot. The spelling mistake is but a clever ploy to appear human. Don't be fooled!
(Why this feature is being offered to non-subscribing plebes I'll never know. Sheer genius!)
This is bogus 1984 bullshit. I urge everone not
to allow an implant like this. Better yet, I should
take this implant and shove it up the developers'
ass! What a joke. If your lost learn how to triangulate on the stars, damn it!
Austin, TX. Lawmakers in Texas have proposed State Bill TX-01121301213 proposing that all Democratic lawmakers get the Applied Digital Devices GPS implant chip immediately following a protest and walkout by all but four of the Texas Democratic Legislators to prevent a redistricting policy being forcefully pushed by the Republican Majority. Republicans, being honest Americans are exempt from the requirement -- which some wish to extend to all public workers. If ammended to require all state and city workers to have the chip, don't expect a massive jump in the number of registered Republican voters. Only Republican lawmakers are exempt. Government employees of all parties would be required to have the chip. The only exemption in that section of the law is proposed for those earning more than 250K a year.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
The cooler the potential misuses for a technology, the scarier the potential misuses are.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
Hi!
We explored the issues involved with tracking humans for a client a couple of years ago. Bottom line: you can only track humans who a) know they are being tracked, and b) are willing to participate. The converse is true: you cannot track someone who is not willing to participate.
The crucial point is this: it is possible to do field trials with willing subjects, to demonstrate the feasibility of receiving signals. However--it is child's play to defeat the system. And a tracking system that can be defeated is substantially worse than no system at all.
How GPS works
Most geeks understand the idea behind GPS, in the sense of determining position based on comparing the time signatures broadcast from multiple satellites. What many people don't realize is how low the signal strength actually is: it's actually not much stronger than background radiation. GPS works because DSPs can dig the signals out of that background radiation and get the data. Key point: Very Weak Signal.
Result: It's easy to defeat
Because the GPS signal is so weak, you lose GPS lock (the ability to receive signals from enough satellites) all the time. You lose it going into practically any building; you lose it in tunnels; you can frequently lose it in urban areas (like Manhattan). As a consequence, GPS chipsets simply store (and report) their last known good position. That's usually a good thing. If you're tracking a convict, it could be a very bad thing.
A very bad thing: here's why
A while ago we were contacted by a government official with a specific challenge: in the official's words, "In 40% of all homicides the victim has an outstanding Protection From Abuse order against her attacker." I don't know how accurate that figure is--but it's a compelling number. What the official wanted to do was put a GPS tracking device on people (99% men) with current PFA orders. Great idea!
Except...it is brutally easy to defeat the GPS tracker. Just wrap the device with aluminum foil--or simply cover the GPS antenna with aluminum foil. The GPS unit will simply lose lock--and keep recording your position as the last known good (LKG) position. You can then travel across town, secure in the knowledge that the device cannot report your actual location and warn your ex-wife. And after you've successfully beaten her to death, you'll be able to present the county's own data to demonstrate that while the crime was in progress you were at home--because the GPS unit thinks you're still at the LKG point.
Bottom line:
Great idea. (And I'll elaborate in another message.) But not a viable idea for tracking perps.
I'm just a medical student but i'm pretty sure i'd know about any gag orders by now
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything" -- Josef Stalin
While their communicators could relay position, I'm not so sure that they are responsible for vital stats.
;-) The specifically-designated "medical tricorders" have that little thingee that the doctor waves around the patient's body at a range of about 10 cm. So the range of the scan in "Remember Me" seems definately a plot hole. (Not the first, and not the last, as I read once, "Voyager had plot holes so big you could drive the ship though them!")
I remember the episode. I'd say the computer just uses some kind of long-range RF energy to read it off from a distance.. after all, the medical tricorders read off all *sorts* of stuff without ever touching the patient, so it has to use some kind of RF/subspace signals to do it.
If you accept this kind of reading vitals at a distance, the only problem is the range. Tricorders seem to work at a range of less than about 2 meters, except where they were scanning for large energy sources (at a range of several 10s of meters, something I figure we could do today - well, except for subspace radiation
More to the point of the tracking thins, anybody remember the season 7 episode "Attached"? Where Picard and Beverly were telepathically linked together - in a way that also meant they couldn't get outside of about 2 meters distance without getting sick..
Back to reality, I'm really surprised noone has raised the frightening possibilty of the INS using this to track foriegn students..
Jim
in the Federal prison system or on supervised release inmates eventually. They'll start on the state level by using it on "habitual sex offenders" (i.e., anyone who jacks off to Playboy while in the joint) and eventually make it federal. If your dick gets hard, the device will communicate this "vital sign" to your parole officer and back you go into the joint... Then, of course, suspected "terrorists" (i.e., anybody who doesn't vote) will be next...
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
of them coded to me.... :)
:)
There is no place to hide but in plain sight, at several hundred locations at one time
Put one on the dog, under a log,
on a train, in some grain,
I will not wear a tracker sam I am
I will depend on some white hacker
I will not eat green eggs and ham..
sigh TGIF
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I remember watching this MTV special about hacking. (I'm sorry :) Anyway, they had this one group of guys who were using police scanners, and some software to triangulate the location of every cop in New York. From what I remember, they hadn't perfected it, but they were very close. Not exactly the same as what's being talked about here, but very similar, and very scary.
get em girls. daddy needs new shoes.
Almost Good: Tagging violent convicted criminals.
Bad: Tagging non-violent convicted criminals, tagging anyone arrested for any reason regardless of conviction or not. The US Justice system isn't.
Good: Voluntary tagging of kids to help track them down.
Bad: Body parts are removed to remove the tag.
Bad: It won't work in a farad cage.
Bad: It allows abuse by those controlling the device.
For Your Own Good:Tagging all "Real Americans" to tell them from terrorists.
Bad: It's got to have an ID along with the GPS and is subject to abuse.
Bad: Hacking takes on a whole new meaning when a terrorist needs some quick ID. So what is the new and spiffy term for "Meat Hacking", "macking" sounds too appleish and smells fishy.
Bad: False sense of security. http://stupidsecurity.com/
Bad: Old hat hacking will make you Bridgette Fonda! (Only good if you get the body to match.)
Really Bad: Farad cage clothing becomes all the rage.
Good for them: An epidemic rash caused by the farad clothing causes a mass rekindling of public nudity.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
I've tried to read as many replies as possible, but still it is not clear to me exactly what this is good for? I certainly wouldn't want to have it implanted in me. The implications would be tremendous. I don't want, nor do I think many kids want, my/their parents checking up on them all the time via this thing. Sure, it's neat in the electronics sense, in that it's an interesting piece of engineering, but still the question remains. What is this good for?
-Dae
"Alle reden vom wetter. Wir nicht." - SDS Sozialistischer Deutscher Studentenbund.
j00 4r3 3n73r1ng l337 w0r1d.
By that, I mean how could God relate an implant to John? An embedded microchip is, for all practical purposes, a mark or form thereof. Say, if I "mark" someone with a marks-a-lot, and write upon that person, "Coca Cola", then I'm marking it with "Coca Cola" but in order to accomodate an cashless society, something more - a lot more - will be needed besides a few words, specifically numbers. For, if physical currency is exchanged then there could be no check on a person's affiliation with the beast, but, OTOH, by implanting some kind of "numeric mark" (albeit embedded), such a system could easily be implemented.
1.Find location of body where GPS unit is
2.Stick said body part into microwave
3.profi......o.....wait.......
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
They are sort of doing this in Portland, Oregon already.
All the city buses there have GPS receivers and transmit their location real-time back to hq.
In addition to using this for figuring out real-time bus arrivals and things like that, they are finding that the data are very useful for determining average traffic speed on the roads buses travel. Useful either in real time -- you notice that all the buses on Taco Street are at a dead stop, you figure there's an accident or something -- and especially the collected historical data so that traffic planners can figure out where and when congestion happens. Gives them a much larger database than they used to get from car counters or video recorders or whatever.
1. Use X-rays and RF receivers (about $2000 equipment) to find where exactly the device is in your body.
2. Remove device (you can do it at a veterinarian clinique, or even by yourself, but it is better to have someone around to help you.) Scalpels, needles, threads, bunzen burners, sterile cloths, rubbing alcohol will be needed. As well as surgical clamps.
3. Now you can use this device as a decoy. All you need is to 'implant' it with someone else, put it into a stranger's car or just implant it with some animal (someone's dog's collar)
4. Now you are outside of the system. Congrats.
You can't handle the truth.
They'l figure out the biological signs of stuff like drug use, sex, etc and have the implant record that! Or better yet tell the cops, or even administer electric shocks to deter such activity, the possibilitys are really endless.
Of course it's technically possible, but it doesn't happen now with current GSM phones.
Oh! That makes assassinations really easy! Just kill someone within 500m of your intended target with a sniper rifle. There are several such rifles that can shoot well over a km. Of course, they're louder than the voice of God, but that doesn't really matter when you're over 1km away from your target (and, hopefully any police or escorts).