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GNOME 2.3 Snapshot, KDE 3.1.2 Released
BSD Forums writes "The GNOME Development Series Snapshot 2.3.1 "Daddy Walrus", is now available. FreeBSD's Joe Marcus Clarke has ported this release (2.3) on FreeBSD and is looking for your testing help. Also, the KDE Project announced the immediate availability of KDE 3.1.2, a maintenance release for the third generation of this UNIX desktop."
Isn't it fun to explain how Linux has no standard for a freaking UI to your friends and family? No wonder even CmdrTaco has switched to OS X.
sulli
RTFJ.
for 2005 to come around, when I can pull them out of debian stable. ;)
Gnome or KDE?
Its make me sick how to explain newbie to choose one.
-- There is four mistake in this sentences.
I don't have a problem with that as much as I have problems with the UIs themselves. All those developers, and they still haven't been able to produce a window manager that I like better than OS X. ::sigh:: ...
-- shayborg
Buddy... If you have to explain whether some "computer system" has a "standard for a freaking UI" to *FRIENDS AND FAMILY*, you probably have more to worry about than the format wars.
S
I was reading all tha anti-radhat commotions regarding KDE and frankly I never understood what the fuss was all about.
But now that i switched to gentoo (this is not ment to be gentoo praise), i finally realise how much can i customise KDE.
But then again i am not sure if RH crippled KDE enough to be non-customisable.
ROCK on KDE.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
As opposed to, say, Windows, where you have the classic Windows 95-style interface and the newer Windows XP-style interface.
Oh, but perhaps you can claim that Windows XP has a standard UI. In that case, you can similarly claim that Mandrake Linux has a standard UI.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Isn't it fun to explain to how windows has no choice for a freaking UI to your friends and family?
Don't bother to install Gnome 2.3.1, according to Gnome's release schedule 2.3.2 is to be released in two days.
and I use deoderant and brush my teeth!
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
What's a desktop user to do if you're interested in American heritage and morality? It seems like the major choices for Linux desktop environments are between a European product (KDE and the underlying Qt library) and a Mexican product (Miguel's GNOME environment.) For those of us who are concerned about what kind of statement we make by using products from certain parts of the world, where does that leave us? Both Europe and Mexico basically told us to go eff ourselves during the recent liberation of Iraq. The UK was on our side, but the UK has never been heavily involved with the development of Qt/KDE.
Personally, I still find myself using FVWM. It's fast, lightweight, and (as far as I know) it's homegrown. However, it's old, and FVWM users such as myself are missing out on some of the newer Linux technology. Are there any plans for an American desktop environment? And do all Americans who are serious about boycotting products from states of concern really realize where KDE and GNOME come from? I think a lot of people might be unpleasantly surprised if they found out some of the things that they're supporting by using some of these foreign environments.
What is the expected release date of the much anticipated KDE 3.11 for Workgroups?
I assume that will be followed by KDE 95....
So when is the SCO Group lawsuits against Gnome an dKDe suppoed to be filed?
It seem SCO Group only considers suing the best..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
All this new GNOME and KDE stuff is great, but what I really want to know is, when will Ximian's release of GNOME 2.x be ready? Their GNOME 1.x release far surpassed what everyone else was doing with it at the time. If their 2.x is similarly superior, it's really going to be super slick.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
FreeBSD's Joe Marcus Clarke has ported this release (2.3) on FreeBSD
Oh good, so everyone SCO scared to shy from Linux has an alternative OS to run their favorite UI on... Or everyone knows SCO is full of it and still uses Linux anyways!
Honestly I'd rather have one UI I think is decent than a gazillion subpar ones.
-- shayborg
The link to the KDE 3.1.2 change log is missing in the story. And for the case you missed it, the KDE 3.1 New Feature Guide and the KDE 3.1 Screenshots are still available.
my ancient Sun box. And now I need to stop that and
install kde 3.1.2? Probably by the time I'm finished with
that the kde folks will be up to 3.1.3
Well, the good thing about GNOME is it won't compile
at all on my Sun box, so no need to even bother.
But the difference in windows is purely aesthetic.
The difference between KDE and Gnome is completely different applications that work with one and not the other.
For all intents and purposes, it makes them two splintered OS's. Both of which suck.
and I use deoderant and brush my teeth!
Glad you use Linux.
__________________ /
/ just great, another \
\ all-nigher emerge!
------------------
\ ^__^
\ (oo)\_______
(__)\ )\/\
||----w |
|| ||
>>> I have to say I'm psyched! And I just can't wait for 2005 to come around, when I can pull them out of debian stable. ;)
:)
what about pulling it right now?
just use unstable as i do... if you want debian as a desktop unstable is a very good choice, don't think this unstable would actually mean unstable in the commen sense.
in fact, it is even considered to be more stable that testing by many people (not all people, no flaimbait please)
The difference between KDE and Gnome is completely different applications that work with one and not the other.
For all intents and purposes, it makes them two splintered OS's. Both of which suck.
and these applications would be?
Without at LEAST these features, gnome is not going to attract many users. Its stupid idea, we cripple gnome so we can get sun to use it is stupid, If they don't start giving the users what they want, then I can see a fork coming right this way. We have enough compatibillity problems with KDE and Gnome already without having another one. So please listen to your users or else.
And it might already be there. Please let me know.
I want ARBITRARY keyboard shortcuts. I want to be able to write a shell script (or any executable), and have it execute when I hit (ctrl)-(alt)-w (My keystroke to bring up a vertically maximized terminal window).
I was quite scared with gnome 2.x when they seemed to take this feature away, but I found out how to do it eventually (gconf-editor under the metacity stuff).
Zapman
It was a JOKE. Thank you for your time. We all know about debian unstable, he was merely making an amusing statent. I hate these fucking human dictionary robots.
UI wars aside, KDE 3.1.2 still has an obnoxious bug. Please vote and/or comment at the given link.
KDE is IMHO awesome, but its habit of automatically switching focus to error dialogs on another desktop is driving me insane. Especially since, statistics aside, the switcheroo invaribly happens when I'm writing a Slashdot post, and in my furor hit "enter" just as a warning dialog comes up.
--
Just another 2 minutes that I should have been writing my thesis.
Anyone? Is there a Click' N Run in the house?
___ Shout Central - Crushes your nuts!
How can I tell how cool it is without screenshots?
Launch the menu editor. (By right clicking the k, then click "Menu Editor")
Select the progam you want.
Theres an option called current shortcut key. Click that and select the shortcut you want.
This, of course, because what you want is what everyone must want, and what you think is best MUST be the best solution for everyone. Why everyone else cannot figure this out, I just don't know.
You should read the weekly KDE CVS Digest if you're so eager to read about new features.
I don't know, maybe this is a stretch, and maybe my logic is flawed, but... If you prefer OS X, why don't you use it.
Then again, your preference may simply be to bitch about anything and everything, in which case slashdot does seem to be the best medium for you to express yourself.
work, you mean play solitaire in between reboots? ;)
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
Learn to use cvs, it allows you to keep up with the "new features" at the cost of stabilty.
Read this this and this.
The CVS version of kde is way ahead of gnome, it's just that it's not up to alpha quality yet.
deb http://ftp.us.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.1.2/Debian stable main
And you can have the latest & greatest KDE running on stable.
I am glad to see Gnome has not bowed to market pressure and released the latest version as Gnome 3.
Unlike Mandrake 9 and MSN 8. None of which had version 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 etc. They just upped the numbers to match their competitor. (RedHat 9, AOL 8).
http://www.kubuntu.org/
I'd like to applaud the method the KDE team uses, releasing maintenance releases that focus on fixing bugs and improving stability.
I've seen too many patches and fixes that insist in introducing new components or functionality at the same time as a fix. The separation of "fix" and "feature" is a critical one for minimizing the number of new bugs introduced.
While KDE is by no means the only project where this is practiced, they are a big one and it is a method that should be praised and emulated whenever possible.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
http://saveie6.com/
Um -- I think your logic is flawed. I do use OS X on my Mac, but I also do own more than one PC. If you could inform me how to get the OS X interface onto my Linux machine I'd be very much obliged. Until then I don't think wishing for a better UI consitutes bitching about everything.
-- shayborg
We need one standard OS, one browser, one office suite, one directory service, one ISP, one network protocal, etc.
Before you know it you have a monopoly that looks awefully alot like a company in the pacific northwest.
Standards cause problems like what I mentioned above. Its good to have choice to encourage innovation.
What you like one gas company with one only standard automaker? I think not.
wow, that was quite a troll.. i am tempted to bite.. must... resist.. urge...
Nope, we need one great one. You have produced many OK ones, but no great ones. But be happy in your mediocre, but filled with choice life.
That should have been a dead giveaway that the OP does not use Linux.
The only difference between the Windows 95 and Windows XP interface is the look of the widgets. They are all still the same, in the same place, and even look like they did before, only colorful.
Oh, and the Start Menu has stuff that used to be on the desktop.
Is that all you have to offer? In comparison, Mandrake Linux is a composite of conflicting windowing libraries, desktop environments, and poor cut-and-paste.
"Sufferin' succotash."
What's with that press release? Since when did KDE have a marketing department? This frightens and disturbe me. Well, as long as they don't implement a version of Clippy, I think we're okay.
Don't get any ideas, KDE Team!
[insert witty quote here]
...YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!!!
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
I remember it going back as far as 5.something.
and I believe Mandrake 8 was released WAY ahead of RedHat 8.
It's OK to hate a distribution, but you should get your facts straight.
Ugh, I hate that god damned OSX interface. One god damned tool bar? Bad focus policies? Utter bullshit. I prefer a GUI that allows me to multitask.
I truly do not know what you mean here. Do you mean that, for example, the 'x' to close a window is in the same location in Windows 95 and Windows XP? Or do you mean that the Control Panel looks the same (sans more colour) in Windows 95 and in Windows XP? If the former, you are certainly right. If the latter, you aren't. You can modify the control panel in Windows XP to look more like it did in Windows 95 but by default, it doesn't look like it used to. IIRC, there are other significant differences such as where the 'folder view options' are located, the browser configuration settings (cookie handling and other security settings leap to mind, there could be other differences), etc.
In my experience, cut-and-paste works better in Linux in general than in Windows. I have often wanted to copy read-only text from a dialog in Windows and been unable to do so. I have not yet had this experience in Linux though there's no fundamental reason why this should be the case.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
MS office is the best office suite around! Therefor under your logic we should not use any other app but MSOffice. Oh wait it happens to only run on Windows. Well I guess we can ditch Linux too then. Wait we can't integrate our palms with outlook as well as windowsce, well i guess we can replace our pda's as well, etc.
I prefer choices and there needs to be a distinctive differences between products and standards. TCP/IP and HTML is not part of a product or owned by someone or some company. Its open.
MS Office is both a product and standard which is dangerous.
If there is no standard then I prefer competition. This is what gnome vs kde, vim vs emacs, c++ vs c vss perl, vs java is all about.
Bussinesses like standards in the short term but it is bad in the long term. Licensing version 6 is a perfect example. They wanted they got it! Now the price is so high that the support costs saved due to standardization is nill. Integration does not save as much money as MS would like us to believe. But the price is getting so high that any money saved is sucked out of their pockets.
KDE and Gnome or both products and standards. That is bad if only one existed. They are opensource which helps but SCO for example is part owner of trolltech. If kde was standard, SCO could throw a wrench and kill the linux desktop! This is just an example here.
See why this is bad?
But even if nothing bad happened to QT, its still nice to have innovation from competition. This is another benefit of choice.
http://saveie6.com/
The ability to brag on slashdot does NOT mean you have a big penis. Please help fight the myth.
Ah yes, a wonderful window manager. Stil has a few bug and the development seems to have stop. Once you get use to EvilWM you hardly ever uses the mouse, just like it should be.
:-)
Personally I never liked the desktop environments. Gnome and KDE are big and slow, at least on my old laptop. They also use a lot of screen space on eye candy. However most people will never feel at home in WMs like EvilWM or RatPoisen. They where never meant to be the thing that would attract the avarage computer user. Would your mom use KDE or EvilWM ? Let us remember next time some moron suggest making a standard interface for Linux (*nix) that most of us love it because we can choose the environment that aid us best in our work.
KDE and Gnome are great because they make it easier for me to move my users from Windows to Linux, which is easier to administrate. And I win again
Attempt at being modded up:
Check.
Entirely unreasonable expectation used to flame a project:
Check.
Unsubstantiated claims and contradictory statements:
Check.
Obligatory mention of "the enemy":
Check.
Overwhelming concern for the project you are flaming:
Check.
Claim of switching to an alternative, and another nonsensical statement for good luck:
Check.
Well Mr. Anonymous Coward, you've rated a 10.0 on my trollometer. HAND, loser.
I have used Redhat 9 and Mandrake 9.1 and for a KDE user Mandrake is better in every way. The theme is easy to change and KDE just feels snappier compared to the one in Redhat. Plus Redhat decided to hide the "show desktop" icon in the panel, one of the most useful features.
KDE still has serious issues with stability, perfomance, and usability, and we should be focusing on adding features and doing large scale UI improvements.
:)
Hellooo, anybody home? Have you never seen a troll before, moderators?
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
This may be true but I've never seen any examples of it. I run KDE on my Gentoo Linux box. I have no problem installing and using Gnome apps such as Gimp, Gnumeric, etc. etc.
Oh, of course I need to have the Gnome libraries installed. But that hardly means I have essentially two splintered OS's on my system. I have one. When I fire up Gimp or Gnumeric, I'm not even aware (apart from the name) that these are Gnome apps. I run them at the same time as running, say, KMail.
So I'm not quite sure where you are coming from. Could you please explain?
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
If they don't start giving the users what they want, then I can see a fork coming right this way.
If there was going to be a fork, it'd have happened way before now.
... and GNUstep ... and Tab cola
It's hard for me to get into either KDE or GNOME. On Slackware, I'm faced with a huge array of package choices for both platforms; so it's hard for me to figure out which I can get away with not installing. So just to avoid having a system containing countless applications that I'll never use (like on Windows), I go with Windowmaker and a selection of dock apps. I guess I'm behind the curve.
*Fluxbox not KDE or Metacity. Eyecandy in the WM is pointless. Desktop wheeling, tabbed windows useful!
*Konq is the file manager. The rest of KDE is useless.
*GTK is the widget library. The rest of Gnome is useless.
*GTK AA-text and font-prefs work without launching gnome-control-center when not running Gnome.
*MozFirebird is the browser, with proper native GTK widgets. (XULGlade Theme?)
*OpenOffice document engine & rendering engine with Gnumeric or Abiword interface.
*QT becomes a theming engine ontop of GTK.
*Abandon all dockapps, panels, kickers: replace it with Karamba + OpenGL to compete with Longhorn & OSX.
*PDF viewer: rendering engine of Acrobat, UI functionality of KGhostview, using GTK widgets.
That's all I can think of for now. I hope you can see it in your mind now.
They did quite a lot of damage actually, especially since they have got about 75% of the Linux market.
check this out: http://mosfet.org/noredhat.html
(Yes, it needs to be updated, he left a few things redhat did unmentioned)
They screwe dup a lot of things, the theme is perfectly fine.
They did quite a lot of damage actually, especially since they have got about 75% of the Linux market.
check this out: http://mosfet.org/noredhat.html
(Yes, it needs to be updated, he left a lot of things redhat screwed up unmentioned)
It was released with over 2,000 KNOWN AND CONFIRMED BUGS, that's A LOT! I wouldn't call it mature and stable until its under 1,000. often the number of unconfirmed and unknown bugs greately increase the bug count, so if it has under 1,000 bugs expect at least 3 times as many bugs.
stability, perfomance, and usability,
>>>>>>>>>>
I get a lot of this handwaving and shouting. Precisely what do you want that XP has but KDE does not?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
It is all about usability! EvilWM, ratpoison and ion are very userfriendly, but they only choose productive users ... the rest of the world should stick with its karamba and other eye candys ...
Has anyone gotten the Debian release to work? I got bogged down in conflicting prereqs and gave up.
Split pane support is useful when you want to be able to see both windows at the same time without having to manually manage multiple windows.
The nice thing about KIO is that almost all KDE applications use it by default. You can just open up a random KDE application (just tried with kview) and type a KIO url (fish://elf/storage/graphics) and it'll work transparently. GNOME-VFS does the same thing, but it doesn't have as wide a base of support. The main problem with GNOME is that far too few applications are "GNOMErific." Even now, Epiphany is the only web browser that really feels like a native GNOME app (HIG-ified and everything) and it's still rather immature.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Why does Larry have udders?
They don't allow you to modify the code and then redistribute their distro. This isn't about their lack of ISO's, this is about freedom which Suse drastically limits. I simply won't supports companies like that. .
I know most people could give a crap, but I'm not one of them.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
KDE would never implement Clippy.
The would implement Klippy.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Oh, you mean like http://www.freedesktop.org/?
[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]
When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.
Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.
FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.
It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.
So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.
Discussion
I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.
From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.
There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.
Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.
Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?
Shouts
To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.
To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It
Oh really. So you'll be interested to know that kde 3.1.2 is not a development release. It's a STABLE release, in fact it's a bugfix release to a stable release which in itself didn't have any serious bugs. Just look at the changelog.
In fact, there have been several stable kde versions which have not found their way into debian.
If you want to stay away from development versions of kde, just don't install KDE-HEAD right out of cvs. Anything else is an excuse for, or admission of incompetence.
Liberty.
No, it means nothing. Now if he used deodorant to brush his teeth, it'd be a dead giveaway that he's a Windows user.
I'm waiting for Real KDE Pi 3.1.4.15.9.26.535.89.79.32.38.46.26.43.38.32.79502 8.84.1971.69.39.937510
recently i installed gnome 2.3.1 kde 3.somethingsomething and pekwm. unfortunately they all have things going for them and i cant decide which to stick with so i have to keep them all.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
Udders are positioned farther forward. The 'w' in the Larry drawing looks more like these.
You're not alone.
I always try the latest and greatest desktops, but keep going back to FVWM.
Nothing on the desktop but a pager, everything is in the root windows, including a handy tasklist. (like an auto-hide taskbar, 'cept better.)
I've got keyboard shortcuts to open all of the apps I use frequently.
FVWM would be perfect if only it had anti-aliased fonts...oh well. I can live with that.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
I'll see your love of anti-aliasing and raise you this:
Hardly a programmer but... I think Linux would be perfect if there was unified font rendering system as on Windows and MacOS so that every app had anti-aliasing support on par with MS ClearType without having to be hardcoded for it. But I suppose this is one of the advantages of going GNOME or KDE.
Hmm, didn't the XFree86 Group begin including an anti-aliasing library with X?
I also think the concept of apps being desktop specific should die. GNOME/GTK is better in this respect, short of a few problems your average HIGified GTK app feels pretty integrated. Just a few details left to hammer out.....
During the day?
I set of an emerge before bed, check my email in the morning. By the time I've finished work, it's time to goto bed again.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
The automobile will never be popular until it has a standard interface. I'm sick of having headlights controlled by a switch in one car and a
knob in another. Some have the doors lock with bottons and some with switches. Some have the tachometer on the left and speedometer on the
right. Some have it the other way around. Some have no tachometer at all! Sometimes climate control uses knobs, sometimes buttons, sometimes
switches, sometimes all three. How many different-looking stereos are there? Sometimes the parking brake is a pedal and sometimes it's a lever.
Come on people! Standard or automatic transmission?! Make up your minds!!! Unless we can agree, the automobile will NEVER gain wide acceptance.
The preceeding post contains large amounts of sarcasm is may not be appropriate for all readers. Don't run with scissors.
char *mySig;
What a llama!
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I truly do not know what you mean here. Do you mean that, for example, the 'x' to close a window is in the same location in Windows 95 and Windows XP?
Yes, it is.
Or do you mean that the Control Panel looks the same (sans more colour) in Windows 95 and in Windows XP?
It doesn't by default. They designed it to be more user friendy, and you can change it to the classic view with the big link in the upper-left corner.
If that's your only argument--the organization of the Control Panel--I'm disappointed.
Your belief that cut-and-paste is actually better implemented in Linux simply because some Windows application didn't use the system's built-in cut-and-paste is silly. Copying text from one application to another in Linux is always an "adventure."
"Sufferin' succotash."
Sorry. Linux is both a toothpaste AND deodorant.
Okay, so let me summarise.
You claim that the only difference between the 95 style and the XP style is the look of the widgets. They even look the same now.
I show the Control Panel as a counterexample.
You, correctly, claim that it can be made to look the same (though not by default) but you ignore my other points such as browser configuration, folder view options, etc. while claiming I have no other arguments.
You state that Mandrake (which I no longer use, by the way) has poor cut-and-paste in comparison to Windows.
I point out that Windows apps often do not even allow you to cut and paste, and that I never have problems with cut-and-paste in Linux. For some reason, you think this argument is silly... Why? Why is this less silly than claiming that Windows cut-and-paste is better even though it simply doesn't work in many cases?
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Okay, so let me summarise.
If you must. You have no other arguments, so instead you must give me a run-down of our entire conversation for some unfamothable reason.
You claim that the only difference between the 95 style and the XP style is the look of the widgets. They even look the same now.
That's right. The difference in widgets is only in the look of them. They are in the same places and provide the exact same functionality.
I show the Control Panel as a counterexample.
Yes, you did.
You, correctly, claim that it can be made to look the same (though not by default) but you ignore my other points such as browser configuration, folder view options, etc. while claiming I have no other arguments.
Because "browser configuration," folder view options, and so forth are little-used features by the average Window user. I doubt 70% of Windows users have even bothered with them. They were such laughably minor points that I didn't feel they warranted a discussion. Apparently, they are all you have to offer, which makes your argument look weak.
Next.
You state that Mandrake (which I no longer use, by the way) has poor cut-and-paste in comparison to Windows.
Correct. It is true. Windows has an entire cut-and-paste subsystem. Linux apps are never a guarantee when it comes to copying and pasting. In Windows, I can copy pretty much any single thing that is highlightable and paste it anywhere else that would logically support the object.
I point out that Windows apps often do not even allow you to cut and paste, and that I never have problems with cut-and-paste in Linux.
You mentioned that you couldn't copy dialog text in Windows.
For some reason, you think this argument is silly... Why?
Because it is silly. Windows has an entire subsystem devoted to copy and paste, and you're going to claim Linux in some way has a more functional and complete cut-and-paste system, when it is common knowledge even among Linux users that such is far from the truth.
Why is this less silly than claiming that Windows cut-and-paste is better even though it simply doesn't work in many cases?
Because it does work in most cases. You and I both know this.
I can't even think of an incident in which it didn't work for me, but I can cite endless examples with Linux over the years, even under GNOME or KDE. You are just kidding yourself, or trolling.
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Because it is silly. Windows has an entire subsystem devoted to copy and paste, and you're going to claim Linux in some way has a more functional and complete cut-and-paste system, when it is common knowledge even among Linux users that such is far from the truth.
X is not Linux, Linux is not X.
I'm going to have correct myself. Apparently, font anti-aliasing has been included since XFree86 4.0.2 using FreeType
See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/FDU/ for the Font De-Uglification HOWTO
and http://xlife.zuavra.net/columns/20020521.php for XLife column on Good Looking Fonts in X Windows.
I've seen some screenshots of Mozilla and Opera with nice Windows 9x-comparable fonts-moothing.
X is the standard GUI for Linux.
Next.
"Sufferin' succotash."
[ note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]
When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.
Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.
FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.
It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.
So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.
Discussion
I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.
From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.
There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.
Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.
Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?
Shouts
To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.
To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's w
I did, but koffice however failes to install...
I am using the following list in my sources.list:
deb ftp://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ stable main
deb http://download.kde.org/stable/3.1.2/Debian stable main