Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Files 15 Lawsuits Against Spammers
Popsikle writes "A Seattle Paper reports that 'Microsoft Corp. announced it has filed 15 lawsuits against alleged e-mail spammers in Washington state and the United Kingdom on Tuesday.' It states the tough anti-spam laws in UK and Washington allows ISP's to sue spammers. This could be a good test of the new anti-spam laws." There's coverage on CNN as well. Microsoft has picked a good venue for such a case.
It's amazing how while suing spammers and getting all the good PR, MS ise ws/business/61 13665.htm
also blocking anti-spam legislation.
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryn
"We have personnel around the world engaged in those battles, and we are tapping that expertise and working with these people to fight spam as well." Can't they do the simple exercise of examining their own user's spam - hotmail users can give billions in a day.
If hotmail users could even get $5 per spam, they'd be richer than Tiger Woods.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Hmmmm, let's see... They can sue for up to $500 per message sent and there's millions and millions of spams sent by these people every day...
So (500 * Millions and Millions) = Microsoft is suing for all the money in the world
I have often regretted my speech, never my silence.
-Xenocrates
The lawsuits accuse the defendants collectively of flooding Microsoft's computer systems and its customers with more than 2 billion deceptive unsolicited e-mail messages.
That happened to our entire computer network 2 weeks ago. All of those deceptive messages from BillGates@microsoft.com
I will sue you, you will pay me. If it wasn't you Microsoft, please sue the people who spoofed your address, and recoup from them.
Thank you.
http://use.perl.org
A full list can be found on microsoft's site:
u n0 3/0617SpamEnforcementFS.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/J
</karmawhore>
--
If code was hard to write, it should be hard to read
But... who do we root against? If only Linus were somehow involved, it'd all be so clear!
My brain hurts!
We hate spammers.
We hate Microsoft.
Microsoft sues spammers.
Dangit.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
I think Microsoft will probably win this case. They have enough money and spamming is illegal use of e-mail. Hopefully, that will scare other spammers away.
Wow, I am amazed. Microsoft is Fighting the Good Fight! Maybe now people on the Hill will step up, take note, and finally get in gear about getting some anti-spam legislature.
I have no regrets, this is the only path.
My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
Let them sue until they die of old age!
And this time I don't even care how much money is sunk into the greedy hands of their respective lawyers.
AFAIK, some spammers go to great lengths to keep their identities hidden (hi-jacking other people's computer systems etc) so although the threat of legal action will be a big deterrent there's always going to be spam unless we can come up with a technological solution to stop it.
Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
It's Wednesday, so is MS good?
MS vs Spammers, so the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
But MS runs Hotmail, so the enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
I'm so confused.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
If Microsoft is able to successfully stop the spammers will your views towards them change? Power in the computing industry is not always deleterious to its constituents.
I hope the Slashdot crowd shows a little maturity on this one. I dislike many of Microsofts tactics as much as the next man but in this case Iâ(TM)m rather pleased to see the might of their legal department behind something that could benefit us all.
They have been spamming the world with their ignorance for a while.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
It seems Microsoft is doing something positive.
While not quite a true prescident (IANAL), having the biggest corp. in the world (Larger than all but 7 (I believe) nations) involved has a good chance of getting the ball rolling on anti-spam legislation.
This is NOT a Very Bad Thing (tm)
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
i think it's funny that my the company that runs my hotmail account seems to care about spam.. with their "spam filter" set on the highest level without having to type in email addresses that i allow, spam still accounts for 95% of my email at that address. I have to clean it out every week so I don't go over the limit!
Take a beer, sit down and enjoy the show !
"Insanity in individuals is something rare, but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule." - Nietzsche
Ok, I read this and the little Mr. Cynical on my shoulder says, this is all just PR. Yes, they are filing lawsuits, etc...but in the grand scheme of things, this is just advertising.
Microsoft: "We're on your side"
Microsoft: "We hate spammers too!"
Microsoft: "We're fighting for the little guy"
etc, etc, etc.
The cost of a few million (drops in their bucket) of court costs might go a long way in falsly convincing some people that Microsoft actually cares about the little guy.
Just a though.
sig--we don't need no goddamn sig
Thousands of Slashdot brains slowly start to implode...
The first rule of Slashdot Club: never side with Microsoft.
The second rule of Slashdot Club: never side with Microsoft.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The laws are inacted for the END USER
It does not cost Microsoft $500 dollars per spam message. Deceptibility has no variance in the ammount.
This is for being deceptive, and goes to the ones being decieved.
This is not for the Bandwidth Microsoft uses. Therefore they should recieve NOTHING!
http://use.perl.org
Go, Bill!
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
They are suing them because spammers are free loaders, wait until M$ kills all the spammers and start spamming hotmail accounts themselves and offers an "opt-out" subscription accounts for people who don't wish to get any ads in their mail box.... ..another day ..another billion
business as usual
Please M$ add Network Solutions in your list to sue. Those frickin bastards tell users their whois database is not to be used for commercial spam, and yet they turn around and do the same anyways.
eTrade SUCKS
Hate Microsoft; hate spam.
Hate Microsoft; hate spam.
Evil greedy corporation; slimy pollution of the Internet.
Illegally abusing their monopoly; illegally hijacking servers.
Overpriced software; lowest mortgage rates ever.
Bug-ridden products; barnyard porn.
Embrace and extend; extend your manhood.
No concept of security; special offers on SystemWorks 2003.
Never innovating; always innovating.
I'm siding with Microsoft.
*sob*
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
So, is my enemys enemy my friend?
Mainly just to see first hand an accused Spammer being cross-examined by a Microsoft Lawyer, dressed up in that stupid butterfly outfit...
Typical Reg style. Not very interesting though.
As sad as it is that we need such a thing, it's good to have real money (millions and millions) and real lawyers (the kind you can get for.. millions and millions) on our side.
I'm very liberal. The first ammendment is sacred to me. I believe in free speech to the extreme. But, quite frankly, spammers piss me off. Now, I don't mind the KKK, or any of the other myriad hate-mongering groups speaking their collective minds, because it's their right to do so. I very much -do- mind being bombarded with pe3nis e.n.l.a.r.g.e.m.e.n.t..! bullshit.
The difference? The KKK preaches its message to... people who want to hear it! If you don't want to listen, they won't/can't force you. Spammers, however, target everybody, the vast majority of whom do NOT want anything to do with them.
[end_rant]
I've gotta stop posting before I have my coffee.. Just got spammed on my work account, too, so go figure. (I think I have ADHD too. How'd I get from "Microsoft good" to "spam bad" to "KKK something something"?)
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
The hatred against the spammers is stronger 'round here. I've never seen a Slashdot campaign to subscribe Bill Gates to hundreds of magazines and newsletters, after all; and the worst I've seen done to Ballmer is the Monkey-Dance video.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
I wonder what cost spam has on MS itself... Think of all the resources on Hotmail that get taken up with sent and received spam... Surely it would add up?
:)
Then again, it might not matter to such a large company... but it's MS, there must be some monetary explanation for all this
I actually laughed out loud to that.
Unfortunately, my boss was within earshot, and I have a distinctive laugh... this will make for an interesting meeting no doubt. : p
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
My oldest account on Hotmail (about4 or 5 years old) is plagued with SPAM. I keep it because people still use it to send me MSN conversations.
While Microsoft is suing the spammers, they're not doing much to block them. Are they? Some bayesian filters and RBLing with a bit of context analysis (50K people get the same email in 2 minutes) might just prevent them the agony of having to sue people.
Something that I can finally applaud Microsoft for. Woohoo! Crush those spammers the way you crush or try to crush your competition.
The ghost of J.P. Morgan: "What is good in life?"
Bill Gates: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to here the lamentation of their women!"
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
who do we root against?
When your enemies are fighting, you root against both and hope they drive each other into the ground.
Forget the beer, pack off and watch your purse very carefully.
/ 61 13665.htm
It's not so straightforward as you think:
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
That's not the point of lawsuits like this. If Microsoft's action here results in a decrease in spam (and therefore better service), that alone is a huge benefit to their customers.
Any ISP that tries to reduce spam for its customers should be praised, not just the ones that you perceive as Good(tm).
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
You know, you don't really save bandwidth this way.
You just shift the data over to other servers, who may or may not be able to handle the load better.
Gee, you mean like producing a secure operating system and email applications? How funny would it be if it goes to court and the spammers had to testify how easy it was to hijack Windows systems.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Doesn't mean it has to be Good vs. Evil.
Fights can be Evil vs. Evil, too.
cygnuhchur
I have a hotmail account that I didn't give anyone for two weeks. No one, MS and that's it. Didn't send any email. But I recieved spam.
Basically Microsoft should be suing themselves. They are selling addresses to spammers. There is no doubt.
What we need is a site similar to the Nuremberg Files site.
Complete data on spammers. Name, address, phone numbers, place of business/employment, car make/model/license plate. Photos of spammers, their families, homes, and cars, etc.
Put a bright spotlight on these roaches and watch em scramble. Thanks to the pro-life/anti-abortion movement, this tactic is perfectly legal.
The only question is how long it would take spammers to start launching DDOS attacks on it.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
Yes, it's all supposedly "opt-in," but the bcentral spams I have received tell me otherwise.
sulli
RTFJ.
Of course Microsoft cares about the little guy. Or rather, about him and the billion other little guys with a few spare bucks in their wallets.
The little guys impressions are important, as long as they add up and might seriously affect business.
In this case, Microsoft is the biggest karma whore of them all.
Regards,
--
*Art
"the IP itÂll be either an asian address or some clueless userÂs box in the US on a cable modem or DSL link."
The news item states 15 spammers, 13 in the US and 2 in the UK. Bang goes your theory.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
It is good to know that Microsoft is taking a major step forward to combat against Spam. We need more major corporate to do similar thing as Microsoft is doing right now. These corporates have enough power and money to deal with spam in a legal way. Of course, if the spammer chooses to send out junk through an SMTP server that's outside the US territory, there is nothing much we can do. It is sad, but I am glad Microsoft is taking actions! Go Microsoft!
So this ends up in the next global legislation mess: we all agree that we need global legislation, but the big fight is whether is will be US, European or one of the SE Asian.
And this mess will only be solved when all governments have the same interests.
Why are Microsoft seemingly seeking to stop spam, when there own hotmail service is the most spam prone email service I have ever used. I get about 10 spams into my inbox everyday, (and another 30 into my junk mail folder), even though I have fairly high "so called" spam protection enabled!
Compare that to my yahoo account, in which I have never ever recieved any spam in the 12months that I've been using it...
surely Microsoft are doing something wrong somewhere? How is it that Yahoo can make it so that I recieve ZERO spam, and Hotmail can't?
(also why do I have bad karma?)
Root for one well placed hand grenade during the proceedings.
/syle
DEATH STAR (AP) 2003/06/18 --
Darth Vader, Lord of Sith and Supreme Commander of the Imperial Fleet, has announced today his intention to sue Sauron of Mordor, the official "Dark Lord" of Middle Earth, for violating his Intellectual Property (IP).
Darth Vader spokesdroid K4VC5 briefly commented to the intergalactic press: "Darth Vader is, most certainly, the original Dark Lord, and we feel that Sauron of Mordor, no matter how creative and evil, has no right to call himself the 'Dark Lord' of Middle Earth". He added that Darth Vader legal team would pursue damages worth "several billions" of Galactic Credits.
Sauron, Dark Lord of Middle Earth, was unavailable to comment, but well-informed sources close to Mordor report that "his evilness" promised to rain death and destruction on the first legal storm trooper to ever set foot on Middle Earth.
Darth Vader spokesdroid also confirmed that Lucifer, the star attorney of Mephistopheles, Baal, Satan & Associates Law Firm (LLC) has been retained to defend a case which promises to be one of the toughest legal fight in the history of Evil(tm).
Lucifer first (and best known) legal battle involved the semitic God YHWH (pronounced: "Yahweh") for the control of the "Garden of Eden" real-estate property. That case was widely considered a draw, and was settled out of court.
Dr Evil, widely considered as an authority on Evil(tm) only commented: "Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!", and declined to elaborate any further.
That's all for business news. Film at 11.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
The only solution is to make it unprofitable. I suggest planting whatever program Sen. Hatch plans on using for destroying computers into all the adware on the internet, I'm guessing the people who download that are the same people who actually buy stuff from spam.
Ahh.... No. I help lots of my friends unfsck their computers from things like adware and viruses, and I have noticed that the majority of people who end up with adware on their computers (all intelligent college students) end up with it for two reasons 1) they use MSIE and 2) they fail to understand that IE's design makes it so that the simple act of visiting a website will make you subject to viruses, drive-by downloads, adware, and many other goodies that take advantage of IE's "extensible interface."
This usually results in me educating them on 1) the dangers of clicking "yes" on any dialog box without actually reading it, 2) enabling ActiveX and JScript by default, and 3) the virtues of using a well designed browser. I then remove the adware, install Mozilla, show them how to turn off software downloads and popup windows and they are quite happy.
I can honestly say that not one single person I have helped out such a predicament would actually buy anything from spam. As a matter of fact, they are usually pretty good at spotting spam, they just don't know how to get rid of it (i.e., filter it before it gets to them).
so putting billg@microsoft.com as email in every forms on the web finally paid off
What stops Microsoft from appending some legal agreement in an EULA that specifies that their software can not be used by any individuals for the purpose of proliferating spam email. Define spam. Define a harsh penalty per email sent. Then try to enforce it.
What might stop this from happening? Why wouldn't we make this a part of the GPL? I think everybody besides spammers hates spam, right?
-S
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
You're just not paranoid enough.. Let's see. Spam is only spam when it's send by a company with who you don't have a bussiness relationship. Wasn't that the basic idea behind the american anti-spam laws?
Well, guess who has a bussiness relationship with 99% of the computerusers?
They're just killing some competition, making a few bucks and some goodwill. And soon we will see the announcement for "Windows DC" for "Direct Communication with our valued custommers".
Don't you worry, with a little fantasy MS is still the evil empire and what ever good the do is first and formost good for themself..
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
You don't necessarily need to sue the spammer. If a commercial product is being advertized, track down the company whose product is being sold and sue THEM. The SPAM wouldn't be sent if they didn't order it.
Am I just too cynical, or is this just a way for MS to keep friendly with the local Attorney General? Seems like she's the one getting all the press...
Just this morning I got 5 emails from hotmail accounts asking if I wanted:
:-)
Spammers fake the sender's address all the time. If you dug into the mail header details I'm willing to bet they didn't come from Hotmail servers.
Try typing this in exactly as shown:
telnet your.smtp.server 25
HELO somedomain.com
MAIL FROM:
RCPT TO:
DATA
Subject: junk subject line
junk body text
.
The blank line after the subject and the dot on the line by itself are important.
Congratulations - you've just sent yourself a forged e-mail. Easy wasn't it?
Um...you use the RIGHT sided ctrl and alt keys, not the left ones. These are about four inches apart...if your hands are too small to do that, I fear for you.
A jerk jumping up and down the court room.
...
...
You honor, three words.
I
HATE
SPAMMERS
Crowd cheering hysterically......
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
...is to plug the holes that allow for all of the email harvesting within Outlook via viruses, and consequent loads of spam from Windows based virii.
I don't know how to feel right now....
But Big Up to M$. Using their power for good.
See i do say nice things about M$ when they deserve it.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
``We don't think all commercial e-mail should be banned,'' he said. Microsoft favors self regulation by the industry ``to establish standards that can evolve over time,'' he said.
and you think it's reasonable?
It's typical duplicity from M$, "I won't let you do what I do, and that's how we make our money and bring you software that does what you wan." Microsoft has been trying all along to criple it's "client" machines so that they are dependent on Microshaft "server" machines and all dependent on M$. It does not do what I want it to and never will.
Mass mailing is just one more instance of "client" gelding and they have media help for it. A lack of mail agents in M$ software is typical, where the free world has many such as Sendmail and Exim. Their intrests here line up with traditional publishers who wish to keep the playing field uneven. To bring this lack of mailing ability to free software, AOL/MSN and others have sucessfully threatened smaller ISPs to block both inbound and outbound port 25 traffic. Forcing a cable company to give up a competitive advantage like web and mail serving stinks like an anti-trust violation, but that's what a tech told me happend recently when I was forced to use their smtp server as a relay for the first time. The excuse given was to keep cracked M$ boxes from spamming, so M$ created the problem to begin with and the cracking spammers did not lack mail agents, and it's not likely to help. No other smtp server could be used but theirs, enabling Carnivore and censorship, disabling TLS and privacy.
This is absolutely what the internet is NOT about. The internet is supposed to be a network of peer computers. There's not supposed to be central control or a difference between the ability of one computer and another. Microsoft never liked the internet anyway. They really hate free software that gives people ability that M$ doea not want them to have. Microsoft thinks it owns the internet and can make it into the next broadcast TV. They can, as long people think such things are reasonable.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
>"the IP itÂll be either an asian address or some clueless userÂs box in the US on a cable modem or DSL >link."
>
>The news item states 15 spammers, 13 in the US and 2 in the UK. Bang goes your theory.
The news states where MS is filing its lawsuits. AC is just stating his/her observation of where most spam comes from. Since I rarely bother looking at the headers for spam, I can not say whether or not AC is correct. However I am inclined to accept there is some truth to his statement.
Life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. -FB
"The lawsuits accuse the defendants collectively of flooding Microsoft's computer systems and its customers with more than 2 billion deceptive unsolicited e-mail messages."
2,000,000,000 / 15 = 133,333,333
133 MILLION (and change) spams per spammer on average?
Alan Ralsky can get out a billion per day.... so exactly how long was Microsoft monitoring the spam? It seems like they went after some "small fries" in the Spam world.
As they say, "God is in the Details." "God" here being Bill Gates, of course.
Microsoft wants for itslef what you can't have and is willing to destroy the internet to have it. Spam is worth so much more to Microsoft if no one else can use it. Don't worry, they would never be irresponsible, and make your life any worse than comercial TV, would they? It's not like every letter from my wife's hotmail account has an advert in it or anything.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
...it died. Netcraft told me so.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Yes, today I really hate Microsoft. They have reached out and screwed me, though I don't run their software and have nothing to do with them. It's personal now.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
...and if you look at the headers, it still shows the IP address of the host used to send the forged email. The originating host (or ISP rather) is still easily determined.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
Every piece of mail my wife sends on her hotmail account has an advert in it. Everytime she goes to look at that mail, her screen lights up with dozens of blinking images. Microsoft loves adverts, when they get to send them. They will continue to spam and are willing to destroy the internet to be the only one who can do it.. I hope M$ crushes these jerks and then gets the same treatment. The only cure is to make spamming an offense with a per piece fine. Anything else will make the internet resemble broadcast TV.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
What stops Microsoft from appending some legal agreement in an EULA that specifies that their software can not be used by any individuals for the purpose of proliferating spam email. Define spam. Define a harsh penalty per email sent. Then try to enforce it.
.5 seconds, which was inadequate to read the entire document, that he did not know how the scroll bars worked and thought what showed in the window was the complete agreement, that he purchased the computer with the software already installed and he never clicked "I agree" at any point, etc., etc., etc.
Microsoft does not want to risk the courts ruling that EULAs are not legal, binding contracts. If Microsoft were to take that case to court, the spammer could challenge the legality of the EULA, showing that it was not signed, that there was no evidence that he read read or understood it, that the click-through agreement allowed him to click on "I accept" without even forcing him to scroll to the end of the document, that he clicked it in
There is a reason that the BSA and software companies take pirates to court for copyright violation rather than for violating the terms of the legally questionable EULAs.
If you forget what has been done to you, and are ignorant of what is being done to you, then you will always be a victim.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Why would I not be the least bit surprised though if someone sued a spammer...subpoenaed (sp?) their address list....and other personally identifiable information they've collected, and just happened to add the information to their database?
1.Sue spammer
2.Subpoena their address list
3.PROFIT!!! from lawsuit
4.Use new addresses for advertising
5.PROFIT!!!
6.Sell your new updated address list
7.PROFIT!!!!
And if you think nobody out there would do this kind of thing...just look at people like Ralsky, or Darl McBride...these guys are desperate, ruthless, and lack any shred of ethics.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Well, except that they haven't been enacted yet, and there's this little thing called Ex Post Facto. Also, the most effective anti-spam bills are unfortunately not the most likely to pass Congress:
- Schumer's bill endorsed by CAUCE
- Schumer seeks international anti-spam treaty
But Tauzin's pro-spam bill will probably get the votes.I hear you but don't you think they need to get their own spam house in order first? I'm not the only one who feels this way- http://www.silicon.com/news/165/1/4724.html
The idea that Microsoft is doing this just for PR is silly. The idea that Microsoft is doing this to make people happy is silly too. The fact of the matter is, MS, like any good company, is doing this for money. Spam costs them a LOT. The cost of spam is huge and it is rising. Email systems aren't free, and when 80 percent of what you have going is garbage, you could save a ton of cash if you could cut that out. I dislike MS as much as the next guy, but this is getting out of hand. Some of you think that MS doesn't do ANYTHING unless it is either evil or underhanded. Fact of the matter is they do what they do to make money. Sometimes that's good for us, sometimes it's bad.
Before that it was chinanet.com.net (or some other stupid variation). They stopped about two weeks after Sprint started asking for copies of the spams. Thank you Sprint.
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
is my friend. I cant remember who to credit for this great quote.
"Every security scheme that is based on secrets eventually fails." - Steve Jobs
If that's the standard, then no document is binding on a spammer unless it's written in orange crayon using Dr. Seuss vocabulary.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Humm - two cases being brought against "John Doe" in the United Kingdom (see here). What are the chances this is a real person? Hope they have better contact information that just "John Doe - United Kingdom".
SECTION 4 - RESTRICTIONS ON USAGE
You may not use it to send spam!
You may not use it for a scam!
The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
if you look at the headers, it still shows the IP address of the host used to send the forged email.
Yeah, most of the time it's easy to pick out, but if they've inserted extra "Received from:" lines that fit the chain, it can get rather messy.
If I'm feeling lazy I'll just feed it into SpamCop and let their scripts do the detective work. You still get the opportunity to cancel it after viewing the technical details, if you change your mind.
Funniest Slashdot Comment ..... Ever
-comicbook guy
I use SpamProbe: spamprobe.sourceforge.net
and peace returned to the land of e-mail...
Oh well, what the hell...
They're not actually suing "John Doe". When you include "John Doe" in your lawsuit what you're saying is that there are un-named defendants that you hope to discover as you start your investigation.
Depending on your age, it may just be a matter of waiting a little longer. I see exactly that happening all around me. The bullies who gave me such a hard time in middle school have wound up in jail, rehab, or some kind of probation. The jocks have either matured into working adults and gone on to lead fairly successful lives (and still have a hot chick), or have attempted to stay jocks forever and ended up in jobs with the local janitorial services.
The geeks, on the other hand, have almost all turned out okay. Most of my geek friends are either in some kind of graduate program or working at a tech job with a respectable salary. And as far as "screwing hot chicks" is concerned...that's not what makes you happy. But dating is fun, and when you're young and 've got a good job, it comes fairly easily.
AOL also sued spammers, but for a different reason: unfair competition.
read my blog
musings on politics and technol
May not be my friend, but can be my ally in a common cause.
One thing that we can trust is that Microsoft - or any large corp - will do many things to further their own interests. In this case, SPAM is not only a pain in our respective butts, but also those at MS. I'm sure that MS - having a long standing domain name - is probably spammed on a regular basis.
Evil is a subjective definition. MS is out to profit, and that's not really going to change, but sometimes they can profit in ways that are mutually beneficial.
I can support the "enemy of my enemy" in one way, without necessarily supporting everything they do. If two bullies pick on me, and one day bully (a) picks on bully (b) - well it's to my benefit to see that (b) gets a good thrashing.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I'd suggest that you try to get past all the "evil" things MS did.
Also get past all the good moves MS did (yup...there are)
I see MS...or any company for that matter as an entity.
An entity with attributes. Attributes may be good or bad.
The MS entity does nothing for nothing, it has a goal, not all goal are approved by other entities but there are still goals to reach.
And again, in these goals, we may add attributes to classify them as good or evil goals.
I'm being a little abstract here, let me try to clarify that.
Sure MS did some very nasty stuff...well ok, not some, a LOT!
But that doesn't make all of their goals nasty.
In this instance, filing a suit against spammers, IMO, is a good goal.
Now. OF COURSE MS has some idea behind the head with that and of course they will also try to get a benefit out of it. Who wouldn't ?? Wouldn't you ?
But then, as always, we will find a way to get around MS and things will globally remain unchanged. That is, 90% of the end-user will go for MS and the 10% (that's us, the geeks) will use our own means.
Quite honestly, I don't care what MS intends to gain out of the Anti-Spam war, is it for the PR, is it for a long-term dominance ?
I...don't....care
I'm so sick of spammers that if someone can effectively reduce the number of spammers, let it be, we'll deal with the consequences later.
One problem at a time, as always. Try to do all at once and you fail everywhere.
I'm no MS evangelist, I despise many of the anti-trust violation they make, I despise their agressive tactics, the way the crush down their opponents instead of making their product better to actually compete.
But if MS also happens to be the only organization with enough power, enough strengh to scare spammers, let MS put its power for a good use for once.
Programmer In Training (who was wayyy to lazy to log in)
Okay, adware is out. I wonder if there's another easily identifiable niche that tends to buy stuff from spam?
As a matter of fact, they are usually pretty good at spotting spam
Now your use of the word "usually" brings up an interesting point. Of course, there are several ways one could interpret that:
1) They can toss out the obvious spam without reading it based on subject lines, but can get sucked in by deceptive subjects
2) They can toss out most spam after opening it, but can occasionally think a spam is legit even after reading it
3) By usually, you meant, I don't want to commit to saying always, but I've never seen them think a spam was legit
In the case of #3, please ignore the following. I myself, fit #1 but I always kick myself and delete it. #2 is the interesting case, how could someone not know that an unsolicited ad in their email is in any way a legitimate use of their email account? Who would buy useless products from bad advertisements in media which require no active participation?
Answer: The same people who buy stuff from telemarketers and infomercials of course! So to get rid of spam, the thing to do is to put the Sen. Hatch Computer Nuker in some seemingly useful piece of software, and use telemarketing and infomercials to sell it to our target niche. Spam would probably be more effective, but that's just contributing to the problem.
A less extreme way would be to have the program just filter out all SMTP, POP3 and IMAP packets, and block hotmail.com and other webmail sites.
{sigh} One can dream...
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
I applaud Microsoft for kicking some ass. They are probably as sick of the deceptive and vulgar crap as the rest of us.
(I wonder if MS is sueing the spammers they can't filter out with the MS8 service they're pimping.)
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
The BBC's The Money Programme are doing an edition on junk (postal) mail and spam tonight at 19:30 BST. The Money Programme tends to be fairly influential and usually has high journalistic and production values.
If you're in the UK, or have access to BBC2 tonight, watch it!
I saw an article quoting Microsoft as saying that their "customers" have told them that they want them to fight spam. Haven't those same customers told them that they want to stop popups as well? Why is IE the only browser on the market without a method of preventing popups? This is something Microsoft could fix immediately.
Aren't these the same people who won't actually sell your hotmail address but will collect and sell every none hotmail address that you send to or receive mail from?
Also this is a good thing for their ISP / msn department, as it will help them be able to say that the 'butterfly' does help stop spam, by stopping it at its source.
I'm a UNIX user and I am really glad that MS is doing something that is good for ALL for a change. I just hope they don't try to make an agreement like, you can spam everyone else, BUT msn.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Microsoft is the 800 ton gorilla that's been trying to crush Linux for so long.
The spam community is just as resolved at surviving any attacks as the Linux community.
I'm against all forms of commertal e-mail myself not becouse it's all evil but becouse spammers are so evil in the way they twist everything.
The opt out system was part of e-mail lists everywhere. Someone somehow accadentally opts you in or worse dose so as a prank so you opt out again. Spammers then include the opt out system and ignore it or worse use it to scoop up e-mail addresses.
Every time lagit commertal e-mail finds some way to make it obveous they are lagit the spammer community copys them and suddenly the spam looks lagit too.
I've nothing against opt in spam. I've opt in to some spam myself BUT what I've welcomed into my system is flooeded over with junk I've never agreed to.
Every now and then I get this "Thank you for joining !!!!!" if you don't opt out you get spam from them if you do they sell your e-mail address.
And there are thousands of other tricks. They just keep comming up with new ways to thwart filters bypass spam blockers and be generally annoying.
So now Microsoft is taking on spam.....
Well... ummmmm Go Microsoft.. we hope you'll be successful in a way we know can't happen.
But hay you'll give spam a big black eye put it in the hospital for a while and drain your FUD department of all resorces.
Now how can the Linux community help Microsoft on this. I think with a little more effort Spam won't be going to the hospital but the morge...
Muahahaha
I don't actually exist.
We root for blood. Blood from both sides. Lots and lots of blood. Huge legal fees, vindictive subpoenas, fines, appeals, injunctions, and contempt of court! I want legal blood spilled!!!!!
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
Don't feel so badly. Sometimes it's fun watching a greater evil beat the fuck out of a lesser one.
It's like that Freddy vs. Jason movie that's coming out. Except I think a long, tedious legal proceeding will be a lot more interesting.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Fine. Then they resort to sending emails to addresses in blocks of four instead of five.
Connect to MSN.
Mail spam to four inboxes.
Disconnect from MSN.
Connect to MSN.
Mail spam to four inboxes.
Disconnect from MSN.
Connect to MSN.
Mail spam to four inboxes.
Disconnect from MSN.
See? The problem's still not solved.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
Well, as long as you haven't brought Nazis into this, you're in the clear. ...dang.
yours,
kbs
Unlike some people, I don't force anyone to use any particular software. My wife uses Debian, Mozilla, Hotmail, and Yahoo by choice. When someone comes and cleans out her credit card, we will pay the %50 payment demanded and she might change her mind, so might the credit card company. I can only imagine how nervous a bank, most of which don't use M$ for anything critical, must be about M$'s promises for My Wallet.
lobbying small ISPs to shut their gateways to outbound port 25 traffic, but it seems like pretty easy stuff to get around to me.
The whole reason I'm not useing M$ myself was to avoid the endless list of "get arounds" M$ creates. It makes me angry that they have reached out to crimp my style while I have nothing to do with them.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Did you know that you can switch ISPs? It's a free market.
Frankly, my guess is that your ISP was lying to you. It's much easier to blame someone else than to pony up to the truth sometimes.
That damn Microsoft. How dare they tread on my right to free spee...
Gak... Spam is bad! Microsoft is bad! My little karma whoring fingers can't figure out which side of this article to comment on! What a slashdot-dilemma!
Gotta love this quote....
"Today's lawsuits are exactly the kinds of action we need to put illegal spammers out of business."
Do we want to allow legal spammers to remain in business?
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
I used it for the duration of the beta, but then MS got sued by a 'email postcard company' because their junk got stamped as Spam. They removed it completely from the final, which I thought was really sad and set everyone back 4 years with respect to spam.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
"Oh, it was so sad... I thought everybody liked survays, jokes, chain letters that grant your every wish, and microsoft money makers! The next morning I woke up to find Microsoft stealing my bed!"
If you see 'permanent' as the next 150 years or so, yeah I guess. But I hope to live long enough to see "our" economic system evolve into OUR economic system, which will spell the end of multi/trans/meta-national corporations, as they evolve into something more human-scale.
"but the vast majority of them are in it to make money, which they do best by serving the customer's interest."
They generally make the most money ["best"] by NOT serving the customers' interests, through monopolies, corrupt trading, stratifying product lines, hidden vertical integrations, getting subsidy, circumventing or changing regulations, reducing diversity, speculation, arbitrage and consolidation, manipulating perception and mindshare, and creating dependencies. That's where the big bucks are and always have been: exploitation with a smile. Companies can make moderately good profiits and remain within mainstream ethics, but to make a killing... They need people to roll over and wag tails, loyal puppies all.
Some examples: Ethyl Corp's nailing the Canadian taxpayer for hundreds of millions because they aren't allowed to poison us, Rockefellers' secret deals for Standard Oil and Chase M's demand that Mexico eliminate the Zapatistas, Monsanto's intentional genetic pollution tactics, Cargill's control over food distribution; Oh Heck just see for yourself.
Damn those pesky terrorists
when I'd be cheering for both M$ _and_ lawyers!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Spam is another form of mass-marketing, which does work. Most mass-marketing, however, is at least minimally targeted. I'm not defending spam, but in interviews with spammers, they claim that it works.
The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
I wonder if MS is against spam, or just against independents making money off of Microsoft's "interactive properties" without Microsoft getting a percentage of the action?
I can only speculate that MS would be fully in favor of spamming as long as it was part of a "regulated media process" that enabled MS to collect money off of.
I have a much harder time believing that MS isn't interested in direct email marketing period, just not stuff that they don't make money off of.
I'll bite. The established business relationship idea is teh same as what is written regarding junk faxes and prerecorded solicitations. That law has been around for over a decade (Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991). Just because you had an EBR (establish business relationship) it does not mean that you cannot end it. For example, my local paper made a telemarketing call to me, and since I have an EBR with them, there was no problem. I asked for, and received, a copy of their policy regarding their do-not-call list and stated I was terminating the EBR in terms of future telemarketing. No, I can still be a subscriber, yet any telemarketing calls I get from them in the future will be illegal, and I can subsequently claim statutory damages.
If they allow you to unsubscribe, or more pointedly terminate the EBR in regards to future marketing, then there isn't a real problem that I would see. Most of the spam is not from reputable companies, it is the fly-by-night ethicless scammers. I have no problem unsubscribing from a EBR and can be comfortable that I won't have to do it again.
What we need to a powerhorse like MSoft to bring the first fights and have solid case law that we all can use later. This, in tern, allows smaller ISPS to use the case law to their benefit without having to go to the enormous expense to see a case like this through. It will take several cases before spammers back off, but if this goes through, then you will see things start to taper off. The exact thing happened in the junk faxing world..a few cases open up company's eyes in terms of compliance.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
Microsoft does something usefull with it's lawyers!!!
No, I can't because no it's not. No DSL and only one cable company. Nice, eh? The only option I really have is to build out some kind of wireless network myself. By the time I figure that out, it will be illegal.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
MicroSoft: BOO!
Spammers: BOO!
Suing Spammers: YAY!
MicroSoft sues Spammers: BOO!--no YAY!--no BOO!--no ka-poW!!
I'm so confused...
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
unless the email has been forwarded thru an 0wn3d server in China/etc.
It's comments like these that make my day. There are (+5 Funny) comments and then there are commments that deserve to be modded (+10 Funny) because they are just better (funnier) than all the rest of the comments.
Slashdot should really look into allowing people to mod posters above +5.
Did you know that you can switch ISPs? It's a free market.
In the United States, a town will typically have one or two providers of residential high-speed Internet access: the telephone company and/or the cable TV company. In order to switch providers, a family must switch towns. It costs at least $200,000 to move a family from one town in the United States to another town in the United States. Most working-class families do not have this kind of money.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Suppose you found that your terminal brain cancer (MS) was attacking your terminal lung cancer (SPAM)?
There are bazillions of residential broadband customers in the US running unpatched Windows boxes. No need to hack one in China. Just forward the mail from your hacked box in the US to an open relay in China, and you're set!
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Blocking port 25 upstream was an attempt to block spam. Didn't work very well, did it?
Microsoft is evil because Bill Gates and friends are paranoid control freaks.
Pretty accurate, I'd say. I strongly suspect that the reason that Unix (including AT&T, AIX Solaris BSD Linux, etc, soon to exclude SCO) has outlasted its betters is that the control is not only unnecessary, it is actually counterproductive.
Part of what makes Microsoft who they are is their long-term straegic scheming. (Remember that Bill Gates already thinks that he invented and owns the Internet. He won't rest until his lawyers report back that the conquest is complete.) Anyway, for the topic at hand, here's my cut. "If spam is outlawed (by Microsoft's lawsuits), only Microsoft will be able to send spam". Can you imagine how much richer they will become if they corner the entire global market on spam? Call me cynical, but I'll bet that's where they are headed. It may take 5 years, it may take ten, but Uncle Bill will be able to buy the entire world with his riches.
That is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Oh my god...
Read jack phelps dot net
During the early 60's the army (US) developed a Nuclear Hand Gernade. couldn't get any one to test it. Wonder if there are any around ( for that meeting)?
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
is a funny thing to follow: The internet is a big enough place to accomodate peer-to-peer as well as client-server models.
From my persective, M$N/AOL have forced my connection to the internet into a client-server only model. They did this by demanding my ISP block ports that prevent me from running my own service. No web, ftp, mail or even M$ web share. NetBIOS could not compete so M$ bullied my ISP into killing all normal forms of sharing. M$ does not want it's "clients" to have email, then no one can. This kind of behavior will indeed trun the internet into M$/AOLnet instead of the big free place that fits into your "civil libertarian and reasonable" outlook. Please tell me how to avoid the M$/AOL - Carnivore fate while the last mile is still effectively monopolized. Then tell me how keeping people from doing what they can for themselves beter than what you do for them is anything but evil.
The new "nasty business practices that need to be stopped", as you put it, is the thing you just defended. Microsoft is not evil because they are Microsoft or even because they have a monopoly. Microsoft is evil because Bill Gates and friends are paranoid control freaks. They have a monopoly because they have destroyed technically superior competitors by screwing vendors in the same way they are now screwing ISPs. Blocking services that other platforms do better than you is more of the same anti-competitive practice we all hate.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
So Microsoft is sueing spammers. Interesting that they verify the legitimacy of lawsuits against spammers. Now where do I go to sue Microsoft, as the bastards have spammed me over and over again.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.