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Apple to Accept Returns of Mac OS X on Some G3s
An anonymous reader writes "A class-action lawsuit was filed over Mac OS X not working correctly on some of the older G3's, and Apple has tentatively agreed to refund the purchase price of the OS ($129) to people who purchased it for use on those computers, and wish to return it." The agreement is not final. If you wish to continue using the OS on your computer, despite it not working fully, you can instead receive a $25 coupon. The deal will, apparently, apply to the iMacs through the fruit-colored models; the pre-chiclet iBooks; the PowerBook G3s; the first three Power Mac G3 models; and the all-in-one Power Mac G3.
...you mean the toilet-seat cover iBooks?
bananas like monkeys.
How come you have to class action these companies to be responsible. Isn't there laws that say they need to deliver on their product claims. I am about ready for some tougher legislation I pretty much feel powerless as a consumer and I doubt I am alone. Although this particular mac issue doesn't affect me.
***I GOT NUTHIN***
...all companies would stand behind their products. I know plenty of people who would like a refund for Windows Me *@&!#
Windows NT won't work on my PCjr. I'm going to sue.
A "news that doesn't require discussion" section with comments disabled. Is there really anything worthwhile to say about this article? Apple's doing the right thing, roughly. Sure you can nit-pick details, but what a waste.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
How could they possibly know what you intended to run it on? Perhaps they are using those cognitive computers to predict your decisions!
so . . .
Apple said in Tuesday's court filing that it "continues to vigorously deny all of the material allegations" of the lawsuit but is willing to settle to avoid the costs of continuing to fight the legal action. An Apple representative declined to comment further.
. . . but . . .
"If you are completely dissatisfied (with Mac OS X), you can return it and get your money back," Ferlauto said. "If you want to keep OS X, but are kind of annoyed that you don't have full support, you can get (a $25) coupon."
. . . and of course, the winner is . . .
Apple has also agreed to pay up to $350,000 in legal fees to King & Ferlauto.
everything in moderation
So, the customers get their money back, and the legal weasels get $350,000. That seems like par for the course, nowadays.
This was posted on MacSlash couple of days ago.
If I had mod points I would have modded this up.
....It just works!
do() || do_not();
The upside is that Apple is taking it on the chin for statements made before OS X shipped that ALL G3 models would be supported. The downside is that they no doubt will get beat up for making such an admission.
Oh, and I've got a Wallstreet PowerBook and a Lime iMac that I bought OS X for. Looks like I won't be worrying about the money for a Panther upgrade. I'll gladly send in my disks for the refund.
d a v e
"Hmmm...upgrades."
...every other fucking Mac head who mods by opinion. Thank God you don't have mod points.
I am still mad that OSX refuses to work on my Lisa, that is it, im suing!! Also Debian refuses to install on my Commodore 64, what gives??
I hate sigs.
A software maker granting a refund for a product (even if it is under threat)? I can hear the fuses popping in certain brains in a nameless northwestern city.
Seriously though, this tells you a lot about the both the Mac community and Apple. The machines are so good that people are able to file a lawsuit due to expecting X performance on a machine and not getting it, and expect to have a case. Wow.
Personally, I doubt Apple deserves this (I mean, come on - older machines tend to not be supported as well, and early releases of software are know to be less solid than later ones.) But it does say a lot about the Apple World.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
Some of the computers which allow for a refund are older than Mac OS X. Therefore why should a consumer be angry that OS X does not work on their old computer? I can install Windows XP on a VERY old computer, and it will still work, and be slow, but I am not complaining to Microsoft.
The difference between a G3 and a G4 is not that significant (Altivec). So what, consumers are angry about Altivec, a technology that most consumers do not understand? Altivec != fast.
The only lost functionality is the DVD player. Who cares? Use VLC (free, open source) if you are that picky.
This sounds more like a bunch of OS 9 zealots complaining that OS X is not OS 9 and wanting their money back.
Agreed but maybe if we had less radical action groups like peta and the nra and more normal action groups that actually got support we would be able to have some legislation head our way. We have to stop electing these career politicans and big business people and get some changes made. I am scared for america we are a product of our own poor school system and crappy family structure. We are a product of our own apathy
***I GOT NUTHIN***
Were they all platinum-colored cases (what they call "beige" today), or does it include the Blue & White G3?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
But the real apple news item for today is MS Office for mac being split into three versions, and VPC + Windows XP (2K I could understand, but this is just twisted) being bundled with the professional edition.
They're not "standing behind their product" so much as reacting to a class-action lawsuit. In other words, it's cheaper to cut a deal and say that they'll accept OSX returns for users of these particular machines than go through court (with the possibility of losing).
This way, they'll only lose a little money on the returns of OSX by users that actually bother to bring it it. It's likely that a lot of G3 users won't even know they have the option of a return anyhow.
Save the $?
I realize MacOS X looks nice and runs well on a G4, but you can milk more from your older hardware with something more minimalist, e.g., Gnome.
Stop corporate
through the fruit-colored models; the pre-chiclet iBooks
Why am I reminded of Carmen Miranda?
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
You're one of those guys in denial about what cooperative multitasking mean, who up until the release of MacOS version 10 was claiming that MacOS 9 was the best, huh?
Running 10.2.6 on a Power Book G3 with the bronze keyboard at 333mhz.
And very satisified. The performance impovement from 10.1 to 10.2 was substantial, can't wait to try 10.3.
The only major problem I have is that the machine won't wake up after going to sleep, so I never put it to sleep.
I'd hate to go back to classic now that I've been using OS X for 6 months straight.
coincidencekilledthecat@hotmail.com
I'm glad to see that apple is doing this. Good for them.
However,
I'm still skeptical for some of their other things, involving Warranty Return items. Example: Boss has brand new Powerbook. Within 3 weeks the LCD dies. Apple is still trying to collect $700-something dollars for the repair, when IMHO it should be a warranty item. FWIW the guy has been a super-loyal Apple Fanatic since the Apple ][
This eMac i'm typing on was purchased with 1Gb of ram, but arrived with 512 only. Also, the OS was completely b0rked when it arrived, which required a reinstall of OS X. It's got a few dead pixels on the screen but Apple refuses to listen.
I'm not trying to bash apple, andi know there are other, worse companies, but i guess i expected them to be a little better after the sale. They've been worse than a used-car dealer by my experience at the Mac-centric ISP i work for.
do() || do_not();
Now, I am not the original purchaser of the machine or anything, but it would be nice if Apple would either issue a refund or upgrade the hardware rather than just say "it's broken and we don't care" which is exactly what their response amounts to. It would even be nice if the Apple driver would detect if it was running on a B&W G3's internal controller (triviality in itself) and set the DMA mode to Multi-Word mode 2, but they won't even do that and at this late date, the G3 is outdated enough to where they have an excuse.
Incidentally, Mac OS X 10.2.6 works great on that machine. It blew up badly with 10.2.3 but they seem to have the bugs ironed out since. 10.1 was pretty crashy too but I only ran it for a few minutes.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'll put the $125 from Apple towards the $700 SCO says I owe them!
Trolling is a art,
It's because Apple said it would work on all G3's as mentioned in a higher thread. Had they not done so, plaintiffs would have had no case. So no precedent set, except that things won't be guaranteed to run on any older platform from now on.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
I'm in partial agreement with this case. While I currently use Jaguar on a Powerbook DVI, formerly I used earlier versions of OS X (10.0 and 10.1) on a Powerbook Lombard (the model with the bronze keyboard). While DVD players were an option with that model, the one I purchased (or rather, the university I work for purchased for me) was the model with the DVD reader. Thus, I used it quite a bit to watch DVDs in OS 9 and was pleased that I could do so. I took it on a few trips and carried entertainment with me.
... we'll have to see. A partial refund was more my expectation since a lot of other features DID work as advertised, but hey, I can use the cash for a discount on a new iPod (I want the backlit-buttons version in part because I plan to use it in my Volkswagen, and the red illumination of the controls in the car matches. It'll look really spiffy. :) )
When 10.1 came out it was quite a big deal that it finally added DVD viewing support, and there was no mention of the fact that it was not going to work fully as advertised on all systems. In fact, Apple made a big deal of the fact that you could run OS X on a lot of older systems going back to some of the old beige towers (I'm pretty sure about that) and implied in the "usable on older systems" was the fact that all features would work as they were advertised to on all of those systems. I was in full expectation that all of the features would work, and I can't possibly have been alone.
I was quite disappointed to discover that apparently hardware acceleration, which I have long been told from many sources is actually better because it offloads a lot of the processing tasks onto the video system instead of the CPU, was actually the reason why DVD playing did NOT work. I couldn't play DVDs -- if I tried I'd get a message stating that my system wasn't compatible -- even after Apple released a DVD player update! How was I supposed to fix this? "Go buy a new Powerbook". That was unacceptable given the fact that Apple had always given the impression that OS X would be fully supported on G3 systems. That apparently meant "some G3 systems" even though no qualifiers were printed on any preview materials.
I'll be returning my discs for a refund since it didn't work as advertised (which did bother me) and because I don't use OS X on that old Powerbook anymore. It's just relegated to Photoshopping in OS 9. It sounds like what I've seen so far is indicating a full refund, which I won't argue with if true
The point of this case was (rightfully) that if there are going to be exclusions for "it works with existing stuff" the exceptions need to be listed so nobody ends up disappointed like I was. It's just fair. It's a real shame there had to be a lawsuit to make it happen.
i am a soviet space shuttle
I assume by "normal action groups" you mean moderate activists who work to bring opposing factions together on the issues. The problem is, you run up against highly divisive issues (many of which are underpinned by religious beliefs) for which mediation is no cure. It's hard to find a middle ground between two people who assert that theirs is the one true god.
They didn't give it away in any legal sense. If you avail yourself of the refund (which I'm sure rescinds your license to the software, and probably you have to agree to destroy the CD), but continue to use the software without a license, you're just as much of a thief as millions of MP3 downloaders. Just because you have a CD in your hand doesn't mean you have the right to make an arbitrary number of copies of it, especially if the copyright holder has rescinded your right to use it.
Here's the problem with associating brands and colors. I'm glad I didn't get the first day orientation on how to use my brand new OfficePhone 2.Black.with.Headrest.Thingy .
...are the minimum specs for a reason. I wouldn't expect much out of Windows Xp with its minimum specs of running a 233mhz Celeron with 128mb ram. Newer OS run faster on faster equipment. Trying to run the latest and greatest OS on older equipment is a trying experience. In general I would recomend sticking with the OS the computer came with, its cheaper, and most likely beter suited for the machine. It may sound like Apple is being all great by refunding all or part of the purchase price, but they're only doing that 'cause they got sued.
The 1st three were the beige models made. From the artical the settlement doesnt include the B&W G3.
Mike
You mean Apple actually has to accept returns of it's product, when it doesn't work? Like, if there was a warranty or something? This is a sad and black day for the software industry, maybe one day we will even have to act responsively...
Did somebody's computer burp and release the malformed spam-bot that spewed the parent comment? Was it something to do with unreliable power on the east coast?
Press the reset button, bucko.
Apple controls both the hardware and software platform. If they claimed that the software was fully functional on some particular Apple hardware and it isn't, then they are guilty of false advertising. They can either fix the hardware, fix the software, or offer some other compensation to consumers.
They way I see it, the consumer is definitely coming out on top with this one.
ANd I don't see any issue with the lawyers getting some money for their "win" (qualified, of course, because Apple vigorously denies all the material allegations... but hey, I like to save face in public, too).
Let see, without those lawyers and their legal fees (who only work on contigency) let me calculate what you and the average consumer would get back. Let's see, add for the user base, divide by 2, carry the 1.... ah yes. ZERO DOLLARS and zero cents.
You can get all of your money back! Or if you still want to use it, you can get some money back!
That is what I like to call having your cake and eating it too.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
If mac os x doesn't work, you get your money back.
If windows doesn't work, you get a blue screen.
Not only that, with MS you can't even buy a computer without windows. Ever tried to buy a portable without windows because you wanted to use linux? Good luck.
Yes, you can't buy Apple without mac os x. But MS does not sell computers, as Apple does.
BTW, I bought a apple both for the hardware and for the OS. And I love it.
I think OS X doesn't support video cards fully which makes OSX interface very slow. When Apple announced they'd never support those cards people who had imacs with un upgradable video were upset.
They were told they're machines would be ok to use OS X.
I don't like this remedy. They should have made OSX more backward compatible rather than forcing user to upgrade hardware.
I use one of the "pre-chicklet" iBooks. (I'm running OSX 10.3 Jaguar on a 466mHz G3 iBook SE with 384MB RAM) Other than it being a tiny bit slow, OSX works great.
I think this is really a statement about how Apple's customers have come to expect so much from the fruit company... yeah, Apple said they would support G3's. And they do. It's just when you try and scrape by with the minimum recommended requirements, things don't usually work as well as you'd like.
Sure, refunding the purchase price on a product that didn't work as expected is understandable, but it's too bad it had to happen in court. I guess that's just the way of doing things these days. Too bad.
Can I get my money back for that certain WinXP not working on my IBM clone?
...
I thought so, nevermind
so if you got an old g3 in the basement you can get a refund for OSX that is perfectly running on your G4?
bada bing
Microsoft would NEVER do this.
Everyday it looks more and more like my next machine will be an Apple. What Microsoft fails to understand is that their customers hate Microsoft's "Screw the customer" attitude more than the bugs in their products.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Unfortunately, that's not a viable option. The Broze G3 PowerBook, for example, has DVD-playback hardware. Running in software only (as with VLC) gives extremely poor performance, and bogs down the machine.
Running under OS-9, the DVD playback is beautiful, and can happen in the background as one does real work at the same time
Again, it comes down to promises Apple made, and then didn't come through on.
Read, the warrenty, almost everything comes with a 90 day at least, with something like an LCD screen one would hope it would be a year.
:).
But beyond that, a well written letter after fruitless calls to customer service can do wonders if a copy is also sent to VP of Customer Service or the domestic equivalent.
But usually, I just keep calling, sounding annoyed like I could become angry, but currently calm. If I still can't get what I want, ask for their supervisor, and try to catch them in something of a paradox. Where they either agree their position is unreasonable, or they state clearly an unreasonable position. It helps to have a notepad and pen handy for letter writing later. Names, times and dates are always fantasic things to have. A modest inventory of your apple hardware, and why you enjoy being an apple customer probably wouldn't be entirely out of place either. But just pick one problem per letter. If someone on the phone was nice, but couldn't help you might mention that. Some nice iron guantlet in a velvet glove action.
Persistance and follow through are key. Today, hardly anyone is held accountable for what they do. When they're used to skating by, and someone takes the time to call them on the carpet, it can occasionally be a pretty rude shock
And hey, there's always the BBB, and state atty general's office if Apple doesn't want to be reasonable. Not to mention sites like Vault, or other organizations like consumer reports.
- Rage II cards: no graphics acceleration at all
- Rage Pro cards: 2D acceleration, no hardware OpenGL acceleration
- Rage 128 cards: 2D + OpenGL acceleration
- ATI Radeon, all Geforce's shipped with Macs: 2D + OpenGL + Quartz Extreme
Apple never promised it would work on your machine. Apple did promise the early G3's would be supported by Mac OS X and people felt that not having 2D and/or 3D acceleration made that claim misleading, as Apple nowhere explicitly stated that up front (while they did state it wrt Quartz Extreme).Donate free food here
It seems better than par to me. The usual outcome to this type of suit is the lawyers getting millions rather than a few hundred K, and the customers getting no cash, only a rebate on a future purchase (ie, an inducement to give more money to the folks who ripped them off). The Zip disk "Click of Death" lawsuit, for example, ended up like that.
Under the circumstances, a refund seems like a reasonable outcome for the customers involved. I'm not bothered by the lawyers' fee, either. It's much smaller than I expected, and they appear to have earned it by really representing their clients, rather than just throwing them a bone & running off with all the money.
OS X is supposed to be better than OS 9. Then why can't it do the same things on the same hardware?
Apple TOLD PEOPLE that early G3's would be "fully supported". They lied. Why are you making excuses for a company to lie to its customers?
Microsoft as well as Apple give cut off points as to what hardware will run what OS. The difference here is Apple lied. WTF is so hard to understand about companies that lie should be punished and those who seek justice don't deserve to be shat on again by uninformed Slashdot posters?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Let's go back to 1998, shall we? This is when the original announcements were made about OS X. Come about 1999, OS X made it into public beta, and soon after, it was released. Apple's hype wave crashed down on its customers when the product failed to deliver.
Think about it: You run a Mac shop - graphics, prepress, video, audio, whatever. You're constantly stop-starting in regards to X, its release date, whether it will run on your machine, what software will be available/ready/usable. You buy a Beige G3 in anticipation of OS X, which is promised to perform on it. It doesn't. It's barely usable. It's taken another 2 years for it to become usable, and in that time, the machines have become obsolete. It's taken rewriting and increasing the requirements of so much of the OS (Quartz Extreme/Open GL) that the hardware it was originally designed to support isn't up to the task.
Do we deserve a fair shake? Hell mutha fuckin yeah!
Do the majority of people say "Oh Ess Ecks" or "Oh Ess Ten"? I'm in the "Oh Ess Ecks" because it sounds l33t.
I know I'll be sending my 10.0 and 10.1 upgrade discs in for my refund. I feel a little guilty about it though. That is, if they refund the full $129.
How much will they have to refund? $2M? $100M?
10,000 dissatisfied users @ $129 = $1,290,000
Apple's got what, $4B in the bank still?
310,000 returned copies of OS X would cost them about $40M. Seems like a decent guess, and not too hard of a hit on the coffer.
350 K in legal fees. Considering a new Powerbok costs between 2000 and 3000, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a new computer. This guy must have been really attached to his Wallstreet.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
It's because Apple said it would work on all G3's as mentioned in a higher thread. Had they not done so, plaintiffs would have had no case. So no precedent set, except that things won't be guaranteed to run on any older platform from now on.
... marketers should be held accountable for what they say and imply (i.e. what the communicate, be it explicit or implicit through lies of omission). Indeed, marketers (and their clients) should be held accountable for what they say and imply, regardless of what the license you don't see until you tear off the celophane packaging (thereby losing your right to return the product for a refund in most cases). Microsoft's products, for example, contain a clause in their license essentially saying that the product they sold you may not work at all. While honest (their software is after all notorious for not working properly ... add to that the security issues and that fact really begins to kick you in the face), the fact that their marketing people are constantly telling the world the opposite, and sticking the little factoid that their product really doesn't work in a seldom read document, and thereby stripping the consumer of all the rights to satisfaction and return they would otherwise have, is more than a little appalling.
... the down side of that reputation being that they feel empowered to sue when they don't get it. >$400k plus some refunds from disgruntled customers is a pretty small downside I'd say ... Apple's overall reputation, already good, probably gets better (if it changes at all).
Which is as it should be
I agree with the sentiment, though. Windoze users would just shrug and admit they would get no satisfaction from Microsoft, while Apple users are clearly accustomed to much better software, better service, and better support
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I tend to think that this lawsuit is primarily the result of whiners. I have a "Beige" G3 that is covered by the suit; I've bought, at full-retail price, two versions of OS X (more if you want to include the original public beta and discs for upgrades) but will NOT be sending in the disks for a refund.
Now, in my case the list of unsupported hardware is fairly long: the Rage II video isn't accelerated (but does work, and supports all the normal video resolutions); the video in and video out features don't work (my box is an AV model); the floppy drive doesn't work; the serial printer isn't supported. Boo hoo. None of this should have come as a surprise to anyone who adopted OS X early on. While Apple didn't go out of its way to announce the unsupported hardware, they didn't hide it either.
I got an awful lot by installing OS X. A modern OS that is very nearly crash proof; a solid Unix layer that made my job a lot easier; nifty new iApps; and so on. I've upgraded my video (Rage II is too pokey for ANYTHING anymore), bought a new printer and a USB card. I reboot if I need my floppy drive or the AV features, and everything still works just as well as it did when I bought the computer.
Heck, back in 1998 Apple was saying Rhapsody would support any Mac-compatible with PCI - including clones and CHRP hardware. I was disappointed to find out my beloved 6100 wouldn't be supported, but I eventually got over it and decided to go buy a new computer that WOULD be supported.
I have an antique PC that has a Soundblaster CDROM drive that hasn't been made for years and years. I don't expect any modern operating to support it, and my current machine has a modern IDE CDROM drive. It is rumored that the next major release of OS X won't support the Beige G3's at all. On the whole I think this ends up being a Pyrrhic victory.
I know this is mainly to drive hardware sales, but it seems a little disingenuous to not take care of their customers.
I've been looking at getting a PB, but stories like this where Apple just drops support on a whim, or doesn't 'make it right', make me look for a Latitude or Thinkpad. Couple that with hearing stories about the $500+ repairs on Apple laptops, and I'm getting more leery. I rarely hear about problems with other laptop makers.
OS X is a powerful draw, but the 'closed-source' hardware and the constant ditching of support have me wondering. Make it easy, Apple!
Maybe I'll go find a P2 to put Zeta on..
You were thinking "Hmmm.. Upgrades"
....sometimes. Oh, wait, that's Microsoft's slogan. Damn. Sorry.
THIS anonymous poster?
You fscking douchebags.
you're an apple fanboy. The post above is so correct it hurts.
Stupid lameness filter filler.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
I prefer what Cypress Semiconductor does with class actions - takes them to court and wins.
I run OS X on a G3 All In One with 256mb ram, the original 2mb video memory, and a 9gb SCSI disk hanging off the builtin HBA, and it's quite usable. It does all the effects, not always snappy, but usable. I ran it with 64mb ram for 8 months, and didn't have any troubles... I routinely run Diablo II, Starcraft, and a number of other games, and they ran OK with the 64mb, and run beautifully with the 256mb. Given all that, I know that Panther won't support that hardware (without help like xPostFacto :) ).
It's 6 year old hardware. Every machine Apple has shipped since they started shipping OS X runs it quite nicely, albiet they might need a memory upgrade. Get over it.
See subject
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
when OSX stopped working on my iMac about nine months ago. I found out later that it was a problem with X not working on my model of iMac. I enjoyed X while I had it, but I've been using 9.1 ever since then. Now I'm contemplating purchasing either a big external hard drive or an eMac, but I can't think of anything I could do under X that I cannot do under 9, so I'm probably just going to stick with 9 and get that hard drive. X is nice, and it's more stable than 9, but I'm in college and most of what I do is check my email, write papers, and surf the internet. I don't need a G4 and OSX to do that.
http://www.walkingtaco.com
I do PC support and a very close friend of mine does Mac support and Mac warranty fulfilment. We're constantly trading horror stories and he has told me of a few hardware related problems that Apple still has to resolve:
Powerbook power supplies that not only burn out prematurely but are a fire and electrical hazard.
Some recent Powerbook units that refuse to come out of sleep mode.
IPODs that refuse to allow flash upgrades and units that continue to have problems with charging the batteries even with the newest flash upgrades. The newest units do not have this problem, he says.
Now before anyone shouts out that their Powerbook or IPOD works magnificently, these are hardware related problems that he gets DAILY and that Apple is aware of and does not appear to care about. They replace the parts under warranty and that's all he can do. I have no reason to doubt his assertions, but I have to wonder why Apple would let such glaring problems as faulty power adaptors persist. Also, he pointed out to me that people only call him with problems, never to thank him for a working Mac so his perception is probably a little skewed.
I purchased a refurb Wallstreet G3/266 Powerbook, slapped 512 megs of RAM in it, and put OS X 10.2.6 on it, and it runs like a dream. Sure, it's a bit slow, particularly when OS X tries to do the funky window zoom effects that undoubtedly look stunning on faster Macs, and it doesn't play the more recent Quicktime movies flawlessly...but it's 266 frickin' megahertz, what do they expect?
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
It's not simply apathy that's at fault here, nor radical action groups. As has been stated numerous times here on /., today's political situation makes it very difficult for average citizens to even know who to vote for. It's hard for anyone to even get on a ballot without corporate sponsorship (today, political parties are just a euphemism for corporate sponsorship). The cost of running an effective election campaign, even at the local level, is enormous. This weeds out potential candidates who are either not motivated enough, not wealthy enough or unwilling to be a corporate proxy. We wind up with election ballots which limit us to choosing which corporate sponsors we hate less.
In order to make educated voting decisions, voters must do extensive research into candidates, from the local town board elections on up. Who do they have corporate ties to? Are they independantly wealthy enough to campaign without party sponsorship? What is their voting record? What legislation have they personally authored or sponsored? What organizations do they belong to? Naturally, noone makes this info readily accessible either.
People are inherently lazy, unfortunately. I can't even say that I put as much work into researching elections as I should. Many people can't even stand contemplating this; they limit themselves to whomever gives them the best sound bytes. Until a large enough number of people are willing to work at choosing alternative candidates, starting from the local elections, corporate sponsorship will dictate American politics.
The irony in this is overwhelming...
I see Mac addicts right and left saying, "Wow! Apple's taking responsibility for what they've done! Hah! Microsoft would never do something like that! Apple is teh r0x, w00t!" ...
Denying any wrongdoing, while offering bread and circuses in return under the threat of a lawsuit is not taking responsibility. If Apple had taken responsibility for false claims and whatnot, a lawsuit would not have been necessary.
The strength of the Macintosh comes from the fact that there is a limited range of hardware that needs to be supported from the factory. There isn't 34 different video cards to support.
Apple doesn't have an excuse. They claimed that OS X would work on all the G3s. They should have written the drivers or refunded the $$$, or never wrote checks that their body couldn't cash.
MS never claimed that Windows XP would work on your 386, 8086, 8088. IIRC, MS said that many would need to upgrade. Of course, MS isn't (fervently) trying to increase hardware sales.
It's a little scary when the only computer your OS runs on is made by the same company. Look at Be Inc. and their BeOS/BeBox to 'Internet Appliance' focus shift. Whoops. Lets not develop our OS except for toasters. (I blame MS too, of course...)
No, Apple isn't dying. In fact, I think Apple is poised to beat some stuffing out of MS.
Apple does need to avoid vaporware claims, and treating their customers like two-dollar whores - we get enough of that elsewhere.
... my money back because I wiped OSX from this
:-)
Titanium Powerbook and installed Debian GNU/
Linux unto it first time around ?
I'm gonna get rich from all these computers whose
pre-installed/pre-delivered-with OS's I *not*
going to use
Toon Moene.
And I hope you're trolling, because there isn't any religious message in what I was saying at all. I was only responding to the parent's lamentation that there weren't "normal action groups" out there, and was trying to explore what was meant by that, and why it happens.
Certainly fervent opposition to extremism is in and of itself, extremist. Yet it is a form of extremism that hasn't manifested itself in our political landscape.
They way I see it, the consumer is definitely coming out on top with this one... You can get all of your money back!
It doesn't take a lawsuit to enable consumers to obtain refunds for products that do not function as advertised or described. That's covered under UCC and the like.
Before the lawsuit, the average consumer would get back either the cost of OS X or 0. Now, they get either the cost of OS X or a $25 discount, redeemable when they spend more to buy more Apple products (which many are likely to buy because they are so pleased with their recent Apple OS X purchase...)
So, Apple gets more eyes and volume to its store, lawyers get some change (which otherwise would have gone into R&D, shareholders, customer support, or whatever at Apple) and consumers little more than a pat on the back and no increased functionality.
Truly, the consumer came out on top in the lawsuit...
Lessee... how does that go...
Mac proprietary hardware guarantees that everything "just works". Microsoft can't possibly write software that works across all combinations of hardware and software. But Apple, having designed the hardware and knowing exactly how it works, can.
Riiiiiight!
King & Ferlauto could have taken it on contingency, and received their fee in Apple Store coupons...
I bought my Mac OS X CD. That means that I have the right to do whatever I wish with it. Apple can refund my money if they want to, but unless they reclaim the CD, I gain unlimited usage rights as a result.
Now, before you go spout your uninformed diatribes, I should warn you: I am a lawyer, and I know the law. In Kitzmiller v. InterAmerica Software, a user claimed that he received a refund from InterAmerica but that he still was allowed to use the software he bought on a separate computer. The court, of course, found in favour of Kitzmiller.
Software is mine from the minute I buy it in the store. Whether it costs $129 or $0, I have the right to do anything I want with any software I want.
Considering that Mac OS X 10.2 is quite content to fry the analog card inside of an iMac G3 (Slotloading), if someone doesn't read the fine manual and upgrade the firmware first, I think $129 isn't enough in many cases. A system that is suppose to be ultra friendly shouldn't fry one's built-in monitor without big warnings on-screen first.
Of course, if you do read the manual, like I did, I don't see any problems with the system on a G3. Mac OS X 10.2.6 runs quite decently on my iMac.
-------------
"You would not get a high grade for such a design" -- Andy Tanenbaum on Linus' Linux design.
I just bought a Wallstreet Powerbook off ebay and I was afraid that it would run OS X reasonably because of this lawsuit. Well, apparently, the Powerbook that showed up at my door came with a ATI RageLT Pro card with 8MB of VRAM. I installed both 9 and X on the machine. 9 screamed, but with it's usual drawbacks (terrible multitasking and stability) and X performed surprisingly well. It installed, booted, and did everything I wanted it to (web, email, etc...) except Quicktime. Quicktime movies played atrociously! I guess that's what I get for not having hardware acceleration. But wait, there is a driver for the Rage LT Pro 8MB but Apple just never enabled in on Wallstreet Powerbooks you say?! Why yes there is! I headed over to Xlr8 Your Mac and edited a kernel extension to load my video card's drivers. It worked! Though there is still no 3D acceleration, now Quicktime playback is more than acceptable for a 266MHz machine and the entire OS is snappier. Apple could have just avoided this suit on several models had they just given a few minor tweaks to their graphics drivers. I don't understand why they didn't.
I'm in the UK,
I bought OS X 10.0 for my original iMac (bondi blue),
I never filed any class action personally.
I now run 10.2 with no problems and really couldn't give a fig about these issues.
But if I send the 10.0 box back with the discs since I don't need them any more anyway, complain about unsupported blah blah this and that, can I get them to give me a refund?
Does this apply to those outside the US.
Can anyone just get their free 99pounds?
Just give these people new machines. First, you'll regain their goodwill. You have new machines coming out and they'll probably buy them later. Second, you'll increase the adoption rate of OS X, even if it would be with a soon-to-be older edition (hint: they'd probably buy the OS X Panther). Third, you get rid of probably excess inventory. Clearing out functioning G3 and G4 hardware is going to happen eventually, so why not take a write-down now when it will actually save you money in the long-run (by not losing longterm customers)? Fourth, you continue to prove you are better than Microsoft. Fifth -- and this is trolling -- if Best Buy can give customers brand new computers after theirs fail spectacularly providing they bought the $300 extended warranty (PSP) and continue to make money, so can you. I've seen plenty of times where Best Buy managers replaced ancient customer computers with mid to high-end units simply because the customer originally bought those blasted service plans. So if any of these customers bought your Apple Care Plans, just give them new machines with 10.2.6 installed. And just as a disclaimer, I never have owned a Mac, although I'm planning on buying one shortly (bring out a mid-range Firewire-based flatbed scanner too, by the way)...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
How come Apple is sending actual cash? Whenever Microsoft is caught ripping people off, they are allowed to pay in coupons which are only good for discounts on more Microsoft products.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I see a lot of different issues and expectations here. On the fact-for-fact level, I guess technically Apple is right by having to refund the users. Yes, they made a promise and no, they did not live up to it. I don't have one of the G3s in question but I can see how people would be upset by that. Hell, I'm still pissed because I bought the 500 MHz TiBook when it was first announced but wasn't available with a CD burner. Then they had a special offer for a free burner if you ordered your 'puter between a certain set of dates and the bastards (oops, did I say that out loud?) claimed I wasn't eligible.
So yes, they were wrong. BUT...compared to almost all other companies out there (not even just in the computing industry), they treat their customers better and live up to more of their promises than the rest of the world. I can't see Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, Chevrolet, Trek, Siemens, etc having the same "we'll deliver what we promise" attitude.
All this rambling is to point out that Apple users have come to expect much more from the company and they get it. When something doesn't work 100% (and what DOES work 100% as promised in this world?), they bitch and moan.
Yes...Apple only lived up to 95% of their promise and they're paying. But quitcherbitchin' people 'cause you're still getting 50% more sanity than you would elsewhere.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Yes, the accelerated video came back, but your Bronze G3 Powerbook (like mine) still has an unusable DVD player, so a major component that shipped with the laptop no longer works thanks to the "upgrade" from Mac OS 9
That said, I find OS X 10.2.x very usable on my Powerbook, and will continue to use it happily (without making a claim under this class-action suit). I credit the lawsuit, as you do, with restoring accelerated 2D video, but I also recognize that Apple could have done more.
So, what if I want to buy a Mac because of its nice hardware but don't want the proprietary OS that comes with it. Can I get Apple to rebate the price?
I have an upgrade version of Win98, WinMe, Win2K. I also have a student version of XP Pro.
Win98 can't be installed (without some tricks at least) so it's used as the upgrade path for WinMe if for some horrible reason NT won't install clean. Then from WinMe I can upgrade to XP or 2K easily.
So it's not a terrible investment. It keeps my upgrade path up to date so I can save 50% or so when new versions of Windows come out.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
- iBook: P1 (aka ToiletSeat, 1999), unsure about P1.5 (ToiletSeat2, 2000).
- iMac: Bondi (aka RevA & RevB, 1998), LifeSavers (aka RevC & RevD, aka 5 Flavors, 1999).
- PowerBook G3: Hooper (aka original, 1997), MainStreet/WallStreet (aka G3 Series, 1998), Lombard (aka Bronze, 1999).
- PowerMac G3: Beige (aka Gossamer, 1997), All-in-One (aka Artemis, 1998),
Not covered:PACs are a desired aspect of any representative government. They allow people to express their opinions to elected representatives.
Who do you think funds and comprises groups like NARAL and the NRA? People who agree with their positions. The PAC is the tool these people can use to get their views expressed in government.
In the Federalist Papers, Thomas Jefferson refers to them as Factions, and maintains they are an essential component of a healthy representative government.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
I've seen basically two kinds of posts in resoponse the the article. There's been Mac zealots who are lauding Apple for "taking responsibility," and there have been people slamming them for false advertising. There have also been several "OMG APPLE IS TEH SUX" trolls and jokes of various degrees of wittiness, but that's to be expected.
First things first. Apple is not "taking responsibility" for all those users out there with poor OS X support. They are refunding them, and doing so to settle a lawsuit. Taking responsibility would be adding full support to OS X. Their settlement sounds pretty fair as far as class action suits go, but it's not done out of benevolence. As has been pointed out before, Apple is a company, and its motivation is primarily money.
Second, Apple's advertising in this matter was not exceptionally shady. They said they'd support G3s, and it turns out that they do not fully support all of them. The OS runs on these G3s (which are below the recommended minimum specs), but poorly, and doesn't fully support their hardware.
Fine. All companies advertise in language like this. Plenty of laptops are in various Linux distros' supported lists, but don't have power management support. If you think promising to support something and then doing a half-assed job is bad, look at advertisers that get away with what would be called a lie anywhere outside a court.
This case is neither a big win nor a big loss for Apple. It does not show that their character is particularly good or evil. Give it a rest.
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
However, if you bought Connectix's Mode32, that would patch MacOS to support 128 meg, and added virtual memory support.
There was a consumer lawsuit, and eventually Apple agreed to buy a copy of Mode32 for any MacII owner who wanted 128 megs or virtual memory, and reimburse those who already had it.
It's funny...one of the supposed points in favor of Macs over PCs is that since Apple controls the hardware and the software, the system will work better. Yet that is twice now Apple has had to be sued to actually make it work.
People are inherently lazy, unfortunately. I can't even say that I put as much work into researching elections as I should. Many people can't even stand contemplating this; they limit themselves to whomever gives them the best sound bytes.
So in what way do you choose a canidate? What is the process that should be used, because regardless of how intelligent I may or may not be, I cannot decide on a canidate unless 1 factor comes up.
I decide completely on the percieved evilness of a campaign. That sounds very silly. A resonably intelligent person making a decision based on who sounds evil.
Because my feable brain feels as though my vote is a vote for their tactics. I don't like your tactics, you don't get my vote. I could care less on actual politics, because so could the politicians. They will not tell you what they are going to do anyway. Honestly they have no idea. It will be a mixture of need, greed, and corperate intrests.
I listen to the canidates, I review the issues, I know what they are about, and least publicly.
And I just like 1 guy better.
http://use.perl.org
dumbass
Read this: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106 470
Apple never said it would work on all G3s. Check the fine print and you'll see that firmware updates and SCSI card updates are required for some computers, but the PowerBook G3 (original with rainbow apple on the top) isn't supported at all.
Again, read the fine print for Quartz Extreme and you'd find that only GeForce and Radeon 7500+ cards are supported not the Rages.
Yes it would've been nice for the DVD Player to work on non-agp machines and that is probably why Apple made this submission rather than continuing this in court.
I'm hoping your post was supposed to be funny.
Steve Jobs returned to Apple in January 1997, so claiming that Apple claimed that Rhapsody would run on all Macs in 1996 is patently ludicrous.
Second -- Rhapsody was the codename for OS X, so implying that Rhapsody was never delivered is also bogus.
I like your plan though: Apple buys me a Dell to make up for their "near-decade of bullshit" and Microsoft can buy me a new car for the crap they've done. Maybe IBM can buy me a house, and HP > Compaq > DEC can buy me a yacht.
Well, once again, we're dealing with a manufacturer making false claims about their software. There are "truth in advertising" laws - but they sure haven't traditionally been enforced when it comes to software packages!
In fact, I'm not sure they've ever really been used against a vendor selling a popular package bought off the store shelf? Whenever I see this type of thing happen at all, it usually has to do with very expensive business apps, custom-tailored for a company. Then, the lawsuit ends up being over the implementation of the package (ERP software, CRM software, and so on) for that *one* customer. They continue selling the buggy, slipshod packages to all other takers afterwards.....
If they want to be so tough on software piracy, you'd think it should work equally in the other direction. Make sure the consumer really gets what he/she paid for!
because of a lawsuit. Thus, there is much to discuss.
I own many Macs, from the fruity IMac (blueberry) to the flatpanel 17 inch to the dual G4 1.42 blazer to my 15 and 17 inch powerbook G4s. Apple isn't solving this problem because guys like me with lots of product went and drew attention to the problem. It solved the problem because class action attornies like me went and drew attention to the problem.
You're welcome.
Spell check not included.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
Being the owner of an upgraded Beige G3 running Jaguar, I guess I qualify for the upcoming rebate. If I do, I'm tempted to spend it on Mac OS X 10.3 Panther which of course isn't going to be supported on my machine but hopefully XPostFacto from OWC will address that.
But the word on the street wasn't what the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field said about OSX on G3s. Stevie continues to unnessarily make bogus claims about Apple products. It continues to cost Apple money and customers.
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
Isn't there laws that say they need to deliver on their product claims.
You mean OS X doesn't "just work" like it says in the commercials and all over Apple's website?
That's PREPOSTEROUS!
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
We know you like Apple; guess what, so do we! But wanting to make it a sacred cow not susceptible to critical discussion is a bad enough idea without trying to push that idea on a discussion board, for heaven's sake.
OS X runs fine on my tangerine iMac, although I did have to get more RAM and a bigger hard drive first. I don't use it much, but haven't encountered any problems with applications, either.
"Apple's doing the right thing"
Yes, the way a bank robber "does the right thing" by going to jail after they get caught.
"The machines are so good that people are able to file a lawsuit due to expecting X performance on a machine and not getting it, and expect to have a case"
Do you believe this crap?
Talk about positive spin. Instead of saying "Apple couldn't deliver what they promised on older machines", you try to make it seem like a positive.
The right thing would have been for apple to admit that 10.0 and 10.1 sucked donkey dick, and stated publically that anybody who bought either of those OS's for an older Mac G3 would simply get their money back.
Why does it take a lawsuit to force apple to admit that they couldn't deliver what they promised?
Apple customers are used to expecting a lot from their machines and from Apple, so they decided to sue when features didn't work as advertized. The PC world is so used to taking it in the butt from Microsoft on down that a lawsuit like this probably woudln't happen.
Besides, if this were Microsoft, they'd try to bog this down in appeals and delays that it wouldn't go anywhere. They'd fight this as hard as they could. Why? To stay off the slippery slope that cigarrette manufacuters avoided sucessfuly for so many years. If MS customers could suddenly get an even partial refund for some of MS's software, what about the rest? What about that nice return clause in the windows EULA that they ignored on Windows Refund Day?
...so hats off to King & Ferlauto, and a big flip of the bird in the direction of One Infinite Loop.
Apple takes liberties in its market just as often as Microsoft does everywhere else.
...especially when you've got a deep-pockets defendant. As a former shylock, I can tell you that $350K is a very reasonable attorneys' fee.
In other words, free upgrade to 10.3?
This doesn't sound bad to me at all...
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
The problem with lotsa RAM was a hardware one, not a software one. You needed special 16MB SIMMs to do 128MB. But you could do it.
Apple said you needed to use A/UX to get 32-bit support (>12MB memory). But Mode32 changed that so you could get it without it. This was independent of the 128MB thing.
Virtual Memory was supported without special SIMMs or Mode32, you needed a PMMU to do it though, since the 68020 didn't have one. Connectix would sell you a PMMU (68851) with their program that did virtual memory on Mac OS 6.X (called Virtual). Apple's virtual memory only worked on Mac OS 7 and up.
Apple rolled Mode32 into Mac OS at some point, so you didn't need any hacks.
The lawsuit you speak of I believe was the SE/30 lawsuit, not the Mac II.
At least that is what SOME people said. This is
:^)
far worse than Microsoft software not working on
PC hardware, after all, they don't make computers!
This is APPLE software not working on APPLE
hardware! Not good! So what does the all-mighty
bearded one (Jobs) have to say about this?
The funny thing is, I'd buy a Mac... if I had a
billion dollars. Really, I would.
Hi people,
C at =&Board=Forum35
...
...
To say the truth I stopped caring about my PB G3 Lombard for quite some time and switched to PCs. Nonetheless, and if the judge confirms the settlement, I'll be glad to get reimbursed from Apple. If you really want to know what was going on with MacOS X running on some G3, especially the Lombard, go there:
http://www.macfixitforums.com/php/postlist.php?
and read the mammoth thread "*OS X FREEZE & LOMBARD POWERBOOKS/PART 2* ( Pages 1 2 3 4 5 all )"... Hmm, wait, maybe you don't want to read that thread, unless you a fan of long and pathetic stories that end badly.
To make it short, here is a very condensed version of my own insignificant personal case.
Insignificant user: Hi Apple! I'm trying to install MacOS X.1 on my Lombard with 384MB of memory and it crashes during install.
Apple: Never heard of such problem, try again.
[...]
Insignificant user: Hi Apple! I tried again in different fashions, still crashing.
Apple: Go the Apple Store, they'll help you.
[...]
Insignificant user: Hi Apple Store!
Apple Store: You need Apple memory, MacOS X is very picky about memory, you're using 3rd party memory. Let me take your mac to the workshop and it'll cost you...
Insignificant user: uh, Huh... wait a minute, I might look like a dumb Mac user, but could you tell me why MacOS 9 and SuSE Linux work perfectly with that 3rd party memory on that very same machine?
Apple Store: Again, MacOS X is very picky...
Insignificant user: Well, you know what, I think it's BS.
[...]
Insignificant user: Hi Apple!
Apple: Never heard of such problem.
Insignificant user: Let me talk to a manager.
Apple (higher level): Hi, so you have a problem with MacOS X on your PB G3?
Insignificant user: Yes and I did my homework, I'm not the only one, and I could refer you to the following URLs described the issues.
Apple (higher level): OK, let me transfer you to the right person.
Apple (Pub. Rel.): Huh, huh... OK... Yes... Let me transfer you to Apple Tech so that we can upgrade your CPU daughter card for free.
[...]
Insignificant user: Hi Apple (Pub. Rel.)! Thank you for replacing my CPU daughter card for free. I can now install MacOS X but it is not very stable. It often crashes and I already had to reinstall it once because several startup files were beyond fubar (meaning two orders of magnitude beyond snafu).
Apple (higher level) & Apple (Pub. Rel.): Did you try this, and that, and this...
Insignificant user: Yes... Yes... Yes...
Apple (higher level) & Apple (Pub. Rel.): well...
[...]
Insignificant user: Hi Apple (Pub. Rel.)! Guess what! I have a friend who owns the same PB G3 as mine. However, while my CPU daughter card version is 2.2, my friend's is 3.0. I just switched the two CPU daugther cards and MacOS X.1 is really stable with my friend's CPU daughter card. I believe I'm authorized to say that all other hardware being the same and all software being the same, I think that the issue is the CPU daughter card.
Apple (Pub. Rel.): Hmmm....
Insignificant user: Is there anyway to get my 2.2 replaced with my 3.0?
Apple (Pub. Rel.): I don't think so, let me get back to you.
[...]
Insignificant user: Hello? Anybody here?
[...]
Insignificant user: Dear Apple, Here is my pathetic story... blah blah blah... I'd like to thank this Apple PR person for his time, even though it did not solve the problem... Anyway, I'm not going to buy a G4, I'd rather upgrade my PCs. Bye.
Insignificant user (to self): Dump MacOS X, go WinXP. Anyway, there is this LA lawyer with his class action, so I'll probably get a coupon or something like that in few years as a consolation prize.
[...]
Other Insignificant User (commenting one of my rare post, I'm paraphrasing): You're just a f...ing [I guess he means fooling] pro-Microsoft user, Apple RULES! You're a troll! Die!
Insignificant user (to self): [Sigh...] Post-adolescents rule a lot of forums.
[...]
Insignificant user (to self): Don't forget to watch for the G3/X reimbursement Apple web page in a few months.
I bought an operating system from a company, Micro something, that doesn't seem to work quite well on my computer either. Has anyone heard about a refund from them?
No sig for you!!
The ROM in the SE/30 didn't support 32 bit mode (only 24 bit), which was needed for virtual memory and/or large amounts of memory. Apple actually developed a new ROM, but decided that it was cheaper to just buy Mode32 and give it away (and reimburse everyone that bought it before).
This had nothing to do with a PMMU, which was already in the 68030 (which is the proc in the SE/30). AFAIK, this was the only lawsuit, there was no Mac II lawsuit.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Apple CEO said 'Any machine sold by Apple this year will run the New OS'
I looked forward to BSD UNIX on the TAM.
Where is my settlement for the $4000 spent on the TAM?
You act like your Mac will completely fail to function with OSes using Quartz Extreme. It just falls back to the same graphics renderer as in 10.1
I can just picture it now...
THE DEPOSITIONS HEARING, U. GOOBER vs APPLE COMPUTER INC.
Judge: "So what exactly can't your computer do?"
You: "Well it uses more CPU time when you drag transparent stuff around for instance"
Judge: "What do you mean by CPU time, and transparency?"
10 MINUTES LATER...
You: "It would make my computer run faster because it uses the GPU to do more of the work"
Judge: "Whats a GPU?"
10 MINUTES LATER...
Judge: "So one uses a combination of these GPU and CPU things to do the work, while the other uses a combination of these CPU and GPU things to do exactly the same work, but is slower?"
Judge: "What exactly was your complaint again?"
OS X 10.0 shipped with a 2D/3D accelerated driver for the RagePro in this machine. Apple dropped all 2D/3D hardware acceleration in 10.1, making the machine essentially unusable under OS X.
Are you sure they dropped support in 10.1 that was present in 10? Sounds pretty odd. I was under the impression that Mac OS 9 had drivers, but Mac OS X never did. MacCentral seems to back that up:
More recently, however, G3 users migrating from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X have discovered that they've lost features like DVD playback, support for hardware graphics acceleration using OpenGL and hardware-accelerated QuickTime movie playback.
[...]
Older Power Macs, iBooks, iMacs and PowerBooks sport slower ATI graphics accelerators, and to date, Apple has not provided OS X drivers or application software that offer the same capabilities as drivers and applications under 9.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
....as my girlfriends says of her Tangerine iBook running OS X, "I don't care if Quartz is not accelerated, OS X is still so wonderful I want to hump it!".
Hey, whatever makes her happy....
Joseph R. Kiniry
http://kind.ucd.ie/~kiniry/
Lecturer
UCD School of Computer Science and Informatics
I wonder how many machines that were promised to run Windows 95 smoothly when 95 came out actually did. People should have sued Microsoft for that, too.
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.
I have one of the affected machines... a slot-loading iMac. Anyone have a link to where I can get the needed info to contact Apple?
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!
I have been using OSX on a beige G3 333 and it has been no issue at all...even right through to Jaguar.
It's not wickedly fast, but I grew up with CP/M on a Z-80 so nothing these days looks *that* slow to me .. lol.
.. more efficient, perhaps?
.. will be watching for reports though. Definitely not trusting my carefully tuned user environment to it until I've seen more data on it, and probably will wait at least till it's out of developer previews ..
Seriously, though, 10.2.6 is passable. 256MB RAM definitely helped, and trading in my 233MHz processor card for a 300MHz version and cramming in a 20GB HD definitely helped some more. Like I tell people all day long, more RAM won't hurt.
There are a few twitches, some of which may have more to do with my used (and possibly slightly abused) machine than 10.2.6 itself. I had to do archive and installs at a couple of points in the process of getting upgraded from 10.1.5, most likely from some old root stuff that I knew might cause some trouble when I upgraded to 10.2, but once 10.2.6 gets settled it's quite stable. And with each update release it seems to get a little snappier
I will say that the Wallstreet's firmware is *barely* up to the job of running 10.2.x. I can keep my OS X clean enough to be stable, but from time to time I run into signs that I'm on the bleeding edge of what this hardware can do. 10.3 could go either way, and I'm going to wait and let someone else break the trail for a while on that one before I decide to take the plunge. It might be more efficient and a little easier on this machine's little brain, or it might load it down more and go back to a 10.1-era kind of crawl. Don't know