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Crippled CD Deemed Defective In France
Noryungi writes "The daily newspaper Liberation reports that at least one person got her money back, by suing EMI, no less. She was able to do that with the help of the largest consumer organization in France, which has its own list of articles on this subject.
So, French people who cannot read their copy-protected CDs can get their money back, but copy protection is not made illegal by the court decision... It's certainly a step in the right direction, though..."
For the French-impaired, an anonymous reader adds "The Register has a good article on EMI being forced to refund the cost of a copy-protected CD, because it was found to have a 'hidden defect' -- it wouldn't work on a car's CD player ... Is the tide changing?"
I, for one, welcome our new French overlords. I advise everyone in the viewing area to hide their toy frogs lest they risk offending or benevolent masters.
EMI surrenders to France?!
Wow, I really don't blame EMI. I mean, who could have known beforehand that they wouldn't work in some extremely common devices? Come on, guys. Testing can only go so far before they have to release it into the real world. And I'm sure that for the tuesday afternoon that they DID test compatability, they were very thorough.
I am a filthy pirate.
There is an Act that if passed will require clear lables on all copy protected CDs. From EFF:
t em =2664
Senator Ron Wyden recently introduced the Digital Consumer Right-to-Know Act (DCRKA), a bill that would require entertainment companies to label products with copy-protections that limit consumer use. Support the DCRKA if you think the content industry should be ordered to clearly label media that restricts your rights!
http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&i
In Soviet Russia, the television watches YOU!
that they got their money back, considering that most of those CDs have warning labels on them like a PC with an 'X' through it.
I guess that if a woman can get millions of dollars for spilling hot coffee on herself, someone else can get a refund for a CD that they couldn't play in their computer.
I hope this encourages record labels to stop making that type of CD!!
More than enough BS
don't worry, next week the riaa will send to france a man wielding a sharp stick and german accent to sort this mess out.
I don't think the tide is changing, media corporations in Europe don't have as much of a stranglehold on the government as they do in the U.S., although that's not to say that corporations don't have control in Europe. They do, it's just different corporations than we have here. All in all, this is pretty nice for the French, but we're still stuck in the U.S. without a viable way to challenge copyprotected cds.
Hence the hoorays. I know everyone agrees with me.
Turkeyphant
It's good to see not all countries have turned themselves over to corporate interests, but a victory in France (which doesn't exactly have a history of putting foreign corporate interests ahead of their own citizens) doesn't say much about the tide in the US.
Jason
ProfQuotes
Hey, we got the bomb now! We'll never surrender! Screw you EMI!
Seems like they've proved that EMI made defective disks, shouldn't a recall be necessary?
I actually e-mailed EMI about the copy protection on the new Jane's addiction CD. Here is the reply I have recieved:
"We are in receipt of your email and regret you have experienced a problem with one of our products.
The technology we are using is designed to ensure that the disc plays on multiple devices. There have been playability problems with a very small number of players, but the vast majority of these problems have been fixable by our technology suppliers as they are constantly updating and improving the technology that is included in the copy controlled discs.
As long as consumers alert us to the problem we will endeavor to adapt the copy control technology.
Please forward your address as we search for a replacement from another territory. Thank you.
Regards,
Emi Music Canada
Quality Control Dept
1 (866) 553-0220"
Once (and if) Apple gets their iTunes music store over to windows, and into international markets we will slowly begin to see the CD market go the way of the horse and buggy.
The market has been declining for years due to high prices, and formulaic content... there is still a possibility record labels may become more innovative and profitable with newer technologies.
I think that it's about time these huge record labels had some sense knocked into them (even if it is by the french government).
In Soviet Russia Dead Horse Beats You!
You are kidding, right? Do you honestly believe that EMI, let alone the record industry as a whole, is going to change their practices because of a single insignificant law suite that cost them a single CD and court costs? Here comes the clue train.
This will have no impact on them whatever. They will continue with business as usual and for each returned CD that they get, they will sell millions.
The only way for there to be a "changing tide" is if they are seriously affected monetarily, as in a major drop in sales, or if they are legally bound by a class action suite or something similar.
EMI being forced to refund the cost of a copy-protected CD, because it was found to have a 'hidden defect'
What beautiful wording. And absolutely true. If you purchase data, it should be that, data, plain and simple, with no extras or hitches.
Theory and Philsophy lesson 1 for Copy protection companies:
If you can read it, you can copy it.
I think they already know that deep down. So their idea is to make the data harder and harder to read... to the point where it becomes defective.
...morons
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
"Achete par une consommatrice, Francoise Marc, dans un hypermarche Auchan, le CD d'Alain Souchon etait illisible sur l'autoradio de sa Clio."
A PC with an X through it doesn't really help to show that the CD doesn't play in your car. If that isn't enough, most DVD players don't play these, either. This policy is starting to really piss consumers off. As far as I know, most retailers around here (Germany, that is) just take all the CDs back, if you give them "it doesn't play on my DVD/car stereo/discman" as the reason.
If you believe
the study referenced in this article, then the whole issue of copy protecting audio CDs is pretty much dead in the water anyway.
Do we really need CDs. We have the power to make all of the companies stop and take notice if we just stop buying their products.
This is very interesting, and was probably the right thing to do.
After all, when one sells a disc that looks like a standard CD in a store that sells standard CDs, especially on the same racks as standard CDs, it is a reasonable assumption for the consumer to believe that the product is a standard CD.
If there were significant visible markings on the disc that said something to the effect of "This disc does not meet the red-book standard for Compact Disc Digital Audio" then it would be reasonable to allow the sale of the crippled CD -- after all, the manufacturer has made it apparent that this disc is not a Compact Disc, but that it *might* support some of the same functionality. If you are concerned, don't buy, if you buy, well, you were warned.
This is how I feel the "broken CD game" should be played. I have no problem with companies trying to peddle "broken" CDs, just so long as every consumer knows that it is "broken"
As for the CDs/DVDs that become opaque after a certain time? I'm not sure what to do there. You see, the trouble stems from the fact that, until it becomes opaque, the disc conforms to the standard. Still, I am certain that an appropriate "warning label" can be determined.
In the end, it ought to be up to an informed market to decide whether "broken" or "sudden-death" media are acceptable -- not the government to mandate.
That said, I applaud the decision made, and will continue to support these kinds of decisions until it is made blindingly obvious which disks are crippled
Should read:
Differently-Abled CD Deemed Special In France
I doubt that this means much. Just like the guy who was able to get $200 back from some major OEM for Windows XP by taking it to small claims, it's not going to change "business". It will take hundreds of those kind of lawsuits and the accompanying legal bills to make a difference. I mean, if you're spending $1 million in attorney's fees to represent a company for $100k in refunds, what do you think you're going to do? Look at how effective "our" /. boycott on the RIAA, Sony, Disney, et al is. A few loud mouth geeks don't mean anything in the real world. Remember high school? Remember how nobody listened to you because you were just a nerd and were "uncool"? What makes you think things have changed just because you're an adult? We can raise a stink, but no one cares. They're still writing the checks, consuming like mindless idiots, and the vocal minority still doesn't get what we want. You have to think to yourself that most of the Joe Consumer's out there will buy a defective product and if it doesn't work, are still too lazy to take it back (see Radar Jammers).
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
That's canada with the CD-R tax.
That's where I saw the CDs in the first place: I was studying in Heidenheim, BW two summers ago. I can't read French, but I can read German :)
Do many consumers just not buy those CDs?
Is there a way for them to rip them and burn them to a safer disc format?
More than enough BS
At my work we don't have a CD player and a audio set. We all have computers, CD-ROM players and a set of speakers. I can not listen at my work to some CD's I have bought. I am not doing anything illegal and I can not listen to my own bought CD's.
I hope that a similar case will hit the courts as well. I don't want to rip my CD's and make MP3's, I just want to listen to the music. Why do I have to be punished for something I did not do? Getting my money back is no option, I can play my CD's back home on my normal audio set, but I don't like it when I am programming that I can not listen to my good-mood-programming-music.
I have to applaud their Court's decision on this matter.
If the CD doesn't play in certain devices, it's defective. Period.
When is the RIAA going to realize that they're eroding their own customer base with lawsuits, faulty products and such. Especially when the end product costs almost $20 a pop.
I've bought precious little music since the advent of copy-protection, though it doens't help that theoverall quality of music lately has declined. Until such defects are corrected, I'll simply continue my stance.
The Pigloo
The copy protected CD you buy today may run on your current CD player. But what about your next CD player? How much percent of your CD collection will not run on the new player?
heise.de has setup a register for copy protected CDs and on which drives/players they are playable. The results so far show, that the copy protection is not PC drive specific. Some CD players do play some copy protected CDs, some players don't. The same goes for CD-ROM drives. Depends on the copy protection system also. Thus you can't tell which copy protection system will stop your next CD player from playing the CD.
Thus the record companies are FORCING music fans to make a digital copy (which is a crime in Germany now if you have to circumvent a copy protection mechansim).
GO LINUX!1!!
Possibly a stupid question: Does a copy-protected CD actually follow the CD specification from Philips et al.?
It is understandable that the music industry would want to have copy-protection on the CDs they distribute to curb piracy. However, their current piecemeal approach leads to situations such as these - where some CDs can be read only in some readers.
Secondly, this type of copy-protection is a clear violation of the rights of any person who buys such a CD. Under U.S. and Canadian copyright laws (I don't know the European equivalents), a person has the right to make one copy of a legally purchased CD for backup/archival purposes.
I suggest that the Music Industry come together and create a new standard for copyright protection that
It hurts mommy. Make him stop.
http://www.alainsouchon.net/swf/somfr.htm
Je parle francais, but I wasn't able (ok, I wasn't willing) to get past the Flash opening at the link listed in the Register article:
.UK outfit, it can't be simple Bush-bashing. Or is it the annoying Flash itself that's offensive?
Also in the Nanterre dock was Auchon, the giant department store chain, which sold the offending (and to non-French ears, offensive) CD. It escaped punishment for its offence of failing to inform the Alain Souchon fan that the CD was copy protected.
What's the part that's "offending to non-French ears"? Since the Register is a
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
In the worst case copy-protection scenario, I would just take the audio out cable and feed it into the audio in feed on my soundcard, and record it then. Yes, the Digital->Analog->Digital conversion would degrade the sound quality, but not so much that I'd mind. Then I can play my CD in my car and everyone's rights are respected (the IP rights of the music corp, and my rights as a consumer). Somehow, though, I imagine I'd be seen as a pirate by the music execs anyway.
When you tell them your CD didn't play, don't tell them what device it didn't play in. Let them figure it out for themselves.
Telling them makes you an unpaid beta tester!
I'm much funnier now that I'm a subscriber.
And if you were living in the states, you'd have committed a federal crime, by violating the DMCA. As you circumvented a copy protection system.
It's crippled too.
Latest outrage: I can't format drives as FAT32 under XP. Just found this out yesterday.
The reason why:
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
The facts about McDonald's making their coffee are irrelevant: the simple fact is that anyone who puts a cup of coffee between his (or her) legs is taking a chance that McDonald's has no say over. If customers like the Mickey D's coffee hot, they should be able to get it that way, at their own risk.
Bottom line: the person ultimately responsible for her burns is no one but she, so my initial opinion of the need for tort reform (e.g., cap on non-economic damages and a loser-pays policy) stands.
[ home ]
Interestingly, the Brazilian CD which was defective (Tribalistas, featuring Marisa Monte, Arnaldo Antunes, and Carlinhos Brown) was not copy-protected in the US (I was worried after reading this article, but I bought a copy and had no problems reading it on my Mac).
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
I normally consider myself a die-hard american. I tend to support our government through thick and thin. But as of late, it seems like European government (courts especially) are the only ones that care to protect their citizens. Look back through Slashdot articles for the past week or two. You'll see what I mean.
I had never considered moving to another country. But the more European governments step up to this crap while our own government takes the DMCA attitude, the better my chances of visiting the EU for an extended stay.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Is there any program, or could anyone devise a program that could check if a CD is "copy protected" (defective)?
Would be nice if we all could test the CDs and send them back as defective / go to court and cost the record companies mass money.
-TN
There's a Johnny Depp joke in here somewhere, but I can't quite put it together...
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
What if you needed special glasses to see the great works of art from the Renasance?
Copyright law is about giving companies a way to profit from selling their works for a limited time before said works become part of our collective culture. Just because computers enter into the picture does not make it okay to take a jackhammer to tradition.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Woo Hoo,
...
... What a guy , just look at his sexy pose.
:)
I just wondered who this Alain Souchon is, Im always
on the look out for interesting new artists. To download
on my favorite p2p program.
Quick google reveals
http://souchon.old.voila.fr/
OMG he looks like a bizarre combination of Barry Manilow and David Hasselhoff
Ill bet he's so popular that all his CD's need copy protection
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
A while ago, I heard that philips wasn't going to allow the crippled CDs to be called Compact Discs because it doesn't follow the Compact Disc Spec. Is that true or does anymore have more information about that?
> Do many consumers just not buy those CDs? Well, the typical scenario is that they buy the CD, then find it doesn't play in their living room stereo (CD player replaced by DVD player), and then either ask me to make a copy that works, or they just take it back. :-)
Personally, I almost always buy at cheap CD stores (2001 comes to mind), where they have CDs so cheap that the costs for copy protection would cut the publishers profits too much. Noone protects CDs for less than 10 Euros.
I wouldn't guess that most people can find a way around the copy protection, although several of those "protections" simply don't work. According to European law, it is legal to rip your protected CD if the protection is not functional. So you just try your neighbours burner
I think that the main problem for the RIAA is that they are shipping music on a medium easily readable by every computer in the world. If they are serious about preventing copying, they ought to create and move to a media that they have total control of and make it unavailable for PC use.
Once I opened up this thing that was closed. There were all these things on the other side that were doing stuff. It was the happiest day of my life.
Since the CD doesn't play in her car, but does play in most consumer-grade CD players, perhaps she should be suing the Auto manufacturer, or the OEM who produced the player in her car. It clearly is not conformant with the media that major music publishers are producing.
A Good Intro to NetBS
According to this article, FAT32 can be up to 8 TB. However, due to limitations in Windows 2000 and XP's FAT driver, it can only create a FAT32 filesystem as large as 32 GB.
Posts like these need to stop. They are incredibly annoying. See my journal entry on the subject.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
Contrast this with the Digital Online Right-to-Know Act (DORKA), which would let us geeks know when the RIAA is spying on our P2P activity in an attempt to limit consumer use.
I think you meant suit , not suite , you ass-burglar.
You fucking idiot!!!
I've just pattented my new Copy protection technology it's number 666-666 just after patente 666-665 which is mine: "a method for air circulation in socks using localized fabric deterioration"
Here's the deal. You go to a store and buy a CD. Yuo open the box and there's nothing inside.
It's simple and effective. Of course you dont get to listen to the music. If you could, you would post it in Kazaa and we would have to sue you for that.
how long until
Fool, I never sent you any e-mail!
That's not how it works. The standard that is to be adhered to is the Redbook CD Audio Standard. Hardware manufacturers are living up to their end of the deal; it is the music publishers who are in violation.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Since the CD doesn't play in her car, but does play in most consumer-grade CD players, perhaps she should be suing the Auto manufacturer, or the OEM who produced the player in her car. It clearly is not conformant with the media that major music publishers are producing.
Well, see, unlike the music companies, the auto manufacturers and oems are crazy and like to enhance their products by using new technology to improve sound quality and ease of use and to lower consumer costs. Music companies, on the other hand, like to stagnate on quality, ignore consumer desires, and use technology to make their products more difficult to use...ON PURPOSE.
But I know you were just kidding, right?
wrong. That is the analog hole method that content companies are trying to make illegal. They want TVs, DVD players, CD players, general computers, pretty much anything that displays copyrighted digital content to not have any analog output, only digital with DRM controls. That's part of the CDBTPA, and one of the things that has been causing problems with HDTV. The content companies say they won't release content without controls. The stations don't have any content to advertise to entice consumers to sign up. And the manufacturers are screwed because there's no demand, and adding crippling features would reduce what demand there is. But to get back on track, what he's talking about isn't affected by the DMCA. He's using an approved device (his CD player) to access the content, the copying is taking place after the mechanism has granted access.
UFC is also sueing Warner for selling a copy protected Phil Collins CD in Macintosh and a Universal executive for the protection on the DVD of Mulholland Drive.
I think the workaround for copy protection on a Mulholland Drive DVD is to watch a better movie.
On the one hand, you link to a (very accurate) anti-Bush site in your sig. On the other, you've bought into the anti-French propaganda pushed by the same right-wing idiots that site criticizes. The fact is that the French military record overall is no better or worse than the record of most of the other great powers. Win a few, lose a few; that's the way it goes.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
am getting sick of these stupid jokes in every story today.
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
Why don't some people get together and help settle this now with a class-action lawsuit against one of these companies? Does anyone know of any reason why (in the USA) this would be stopped dead in its tracks?
I feel like we need a win against these idio-- I mean, corporations.
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
1) Contribute to the thread
2) Mod Up
3) Mod Down
(Notice how there's no option to whine?)
until the get all the kinks worked out of their copy protection schemes, they are just going to have to stick to their backup plan (only releasing music nobody wants a copy of).
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
Copy it anyway; there are enough tools to copy these so called protected disks.
Afterwards you can burn a real CD and play it.
or make some more copies.
In other words: only those who would not even have the intention to make "illegal" copies should not buy such disks.
I believe the "offensive CD" was a reference to the music on the website. I consider myself pretty open-minded when it comes to music but that was just painful to listen to. I think I'll go and cleanse my palatte(sp?) now by listening to the soundtrack of Glitter.
They're "Freedom Disks".
If you want to support a new way of doing things check out emusic. At $15 a month for (nearly) unlimited downloads it's a great deal. For me it's a great way to get my hands on a lot of great jazz recordings I can't justify spending $12 a piece on. They have classics from Miles Davis and Charlie Parker among others. It's also a great way to check out new music at no costs. Modern jazz fusion like Garaj Mahal, or psychedelic pop like Stereolab. While they don't have many of the most popular artists they do have a lot of great but not as widely appreciated bands, like Pigface, Sonic Youth, or The Future Sound of London. It's an awesome service, all I could ask for is a linux client that doesn't suck.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Heat wave? Pansies. It only hit like 104. That's not a heat wave, that's a nice day by the pool. I guess when you're that pale, though...
It seems that the record companies may already be addressing the "compact Disc Logo" issue on some CD's. I just looked at the inside tray of my Police CD (The Very Best of....Sting & The Police 2002 A&M Records) and noticed that no where on the case do I see the CD Logo authorized by Phillips red book standard. If you look at the tray that the disc sits on, you see the rectangle shapes on the upper right and lower left corners but no Compact Disc Logo. This is probably old news for many of you, but I've been trying to pick out the copy protected CD's in my own collection but have found nothing conspicuous until now. BTW it still plays in all my stereos and two PCs.....
There is actually a group of standards that apply to CDs. The trick is figuring out what exactly is happening on any particular disc. For example, in the official Compact Disc Logo Guide published by Philips, there are different logos to show discs compliant to the following standards:
There is actually a specification for each one of these logos. Also, there is no guarantee that a CD-ROM drive will be able to play a CD-DA disc (per the spec, though the spec says that it would be easy, and it is).
There is an effort underway to understand all of this stuff and to figure out how these things work together, and with various types of hardware. The project has an Open Source (BSD-style license) package called CD Verity that performs some testing of discs. The software is part of Interhack's Digital Media Project and might be of interest.
My CD-players say "Compact Disc Digital Audio" and not "Copy-Controlled CD", therefore, my CD-players are not compatible with these CDs and must be returned. Period.
:( The store didn't even make me aware of this, naturally, they just want to sell whatever they have blindly.
BTW: Have any of you seen the Copy-Controlled labels on these CDs? It's always on a TRANSPARENT sticker, making it as hard as possible to spot, but just enough to hold in court. Slick! I sure as hell didn't know until I put it in my CD-player on the computer at home, finding it wouldn't play. The CD (Radiohead) was returned.
As for these Midbar/Macrovision guys (the guys who made these "protections" (*cough* programmers with screw-drivers *cough*)), they must be wizards in the field of business. I mean, managing to fool the music industry giving them false hopes like this.
Midbar/Macrovision
Why the protection is completely useless: if you can play it, you can copy it. I don't see how it matters with copy-controlled CDs in that respect. Especially in the Internet world, where it's enough with one person sharing it, and given the fact that audio compressions are lossy means that it doesn't matter much what the heck your source was when recording it quality-wise.
Geez. Wake up!
Yeah, whatever. But this article really made my day. At least someone pays attention to this open injustice.
I'm really tempted to buy a player from them and then a few copy protected CDs and then take them all back when they don't play (including the player). Even if they have warning labels, the DVD player that They sold me said it would play it.
Neither disc has the CD logo on it, and both had very large stickers on the shrink-wrap with this logo on it and descriptions of what it meant, and what systems you should be able to play it on. (Since I refused to install the software necessary to actually play these on a computer, I have no idea how well they work in that respect.) I'm certainly going to avoid these from here on out if I can. I've noticed that amazon.co.uk, amazon.fr and amazon.de will occasionally note that a disc is copy-protected, so I'm going to check there first before buying from here on out.
Your mileage may vary, but mine is constant.
Thanks for your e-mail and we are sorry you have experienced playability issues with the new [CD removed] and your PC.
It would help us a lot if we could get the model details of your PC so that we can make sure that the compatibility issue will be resolved as we continue to evolve this technology.
If you could attempt the following and send the resulting file to us, it would help a lot. Go to START -->Programs-->Accessories-->System Tools-->System Information. Please save this information as a text or nfo file and send that back to us.
Please note that you will require at least "Power Users" access or higher to install the application on Microsoft Windows NT operating systems and above.
With these details we can forward your query onto our European technology partner.
Please be aware that, if you prefer, you can return the copy controlled CD to the place of purchase to obtain a refund. (my emphasis)
sincerely
[name removed]
IT & New Media Director
> Hi
> I recently bought [CD removed], with your copy control stuff on it. When I try and play it on my computer, it uses 100% CPU, and also sounds terrible. There is a lot of high pitched screeching, and it cracks and sounds scratchy. All normal CDs sound fine. >
> What should I do? I play most music on my computer, and your label says it works fine, but it doesn't at all.
> Regards, [name removed]
dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
Once (and if) Apple gets their iTunes music store over to windows, and into international markets we will slowly begin to see the CD market go the way of the horse and buggy.
Oh sure, Stevie Potter and his magical iTunes is going to single handedly put the entire RIAA controlled MTV/Clearchannel/Billboard music distrobution network out of business. I think you need to adjust your foil hat, you're absorbing too much Apple Reality Distortion Field(TM).
The market has been declining for years due to high prices, and formulaic content...
If you were writing an essay for college, you'd have to cite some sources for this information - otherwise it's just baseless speculation. It is quite possible a shift in buying demographics has caused less overall purchasing. It's too easy to troll and say you just don't like the current crop of music and that's the RIAA's whole problem. If there was a decline in dining out, would you say people are getting sick of eating the same old food? I don't think so. Walk into a fucking music store sometime and really look around - if you can't find anything you like, you probably suffer from depression and need treatment.
there is still a possibility record labels may become more innovative and profitable with newer technologies.
So if they put the same high priced, formulaic product in a nicer package, you'd buy it? Again, I call troll.
I think that it's about time these huge record labels had some sense knocked into them (even if it is by the french government).
I think it's about time Slashdot stop letting trash like your post get +5 insightful.
"They should've ignored the French and backed Ho Chi Minh after WWII."
No, Ho was a genocidal Stalinist monster who thought nothing of killing hundreds of thousands of people in North and South Vietnam for reasons including being a member of the wrong tribe, or resisting being forced onto slave farms.
There was nothing worse than Ho, except maybe Pol Pot.
" Against your opinion, I don't believe that the greatness of a country lies in how many countries it can destroy"
France loses out there. Remember, France was one of the countries that went in and supported the Rwanda genocide.
In Iraq, France proppsed up Saddam Hussein as he executed 100,000 or so a year.... while the US is rebuilding the place.
That should read "For the Freedom-impaired"
I am an amateur musician, and I have a huge CD collection. Said that, I have stopped buying certain bands because their CDs are coming out with copy-control, or even worse formats.
Months ago I returned Martin Gore's new CD, which I had previously downloaded 3 months before it got officially released, and even got it burned onto a CD-R for my personal enjoyment before I could buy a copy at the store. This way it was easier to realize that the original CD sounded badly when compared to the MP3s, when it normally should be right the opposite! Needless to say I returned the CD and decided not to buy any other crippled CD, as I consider them all defective.
There are many webpages with good arguments why you should not buy crippled CDs, and some people have already posted some of these. Just to name a few:
With all this in mind, my only conclussion is that eventual trials may do good for getting atention on this matter, but the only viable solution would be to get crippled CDs considered a dishonest and illegal practice, forcing music companies to release all their stuff in the real format.
Months I created a mailing list called Contra-Proteccion-CDs (Spanish only, sorry), just to get some attention on this issue. I think it would be a good thing if other people tried the same thing, always as a way of making local consumer asotiations aware of this problem.
To sig or not to sig.
Vous devez dire:
Quant a moi, je fais bon accueil a nos nouveaux seigneurs et maitres francais.
I m a french guy living in The Netherlands for a few years now. This is probably not so representative, but The Netherlands are very American following types, and here s what I noticed about consumer unions:
- According to dutch standards, defending consumers means testing 10 top selling DVD readers and conclude which has the best feature/price ratio
- According to french standards, defending consumersright is spot a privacy or security offending DVD maker and kill it with bad publicity.
That is of course a caricature, but it boils down to this.
Are there any american websites with consumer union info I can check ?
You said. "From this we can deduce two things, first that the French can be insufferably arrogant..." This is quite correct. The other thing you said, "The other thing we may deduce is that despite the fact they are frequently arrogant and obnoxious the French are frequently right..." is completely and absurdly wrong. Witness their love of Jerry Lewis, witness their recent decision to use Woody Allen to promote tourism in France. Witness the whole history of France. And as for French advice on 'Vietnam'- um you do know enough history to realize that Vietnam was a French colony don't you? You do know some little thing about the Cold War perhaps? You know, the one the US won in the end by specifically not taking any advice from France. But that would involve knowing some history I think. You are wrong.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
Her car CD player is (probably) Red-Book compliant, the CD is not. Therefore it's the CD that's defective.
Verdun
nuf said, shut up
The 10Gb drive out of XBoxes are useless, they are password protected, Low level formats etc do not work. When I installed a larger drive in the Xbox I expected to have a usable 10 gb drive. As I wasn't advised the drive was disabled when I bought the Xbox what is the chance of suing to get the cost of the drive back?
The memories of a man in his old age are the deeds of a man in his prime - Floyd, Pink
Unless everyone gets digital inputs wired into their brains. Admittedly, you'd have to get nice high quality speakers and microphones to do the recording if it was DRMd right up to the speakers.
The Be Good Tanyas web site states that Nettwerk Records in Canada is offering to exchange the copy-controlled Be Good Tanyas CDs that EMI released in Canada. Nettwerk is a pretty cool label, and I'm glad to see that they have done this -- let's hope other labels affiliated with EMI follow suit. As for me, I found that the US version of the Tanyas CD was not copy-controlled, but the Canadian version was, so I bought my copy in the States. The same happened with the new Radiohead CD: it was copy-protected here, but the US version wasn't.
If the CD fails on your equipment due to copy protection.
1. Place in microwave
2. Return to store as defective
3. Get replacement
4. Return replacement unopened
If they still will not accept it as a return unopened
5. place in microwave
6. return to store as defective
7. repeat if nessicary
They want TVs, DVD players, CD players, general computers, pretty much anything that displays copyrighted digital content to not have any analog output, only digital with DRM controls.
So, when speakers and monitors are made illegal, then we'll all need to get firewire or some other such ports installed in our temporal lobes, right? I hope that my insurance will cover the costs of the surgery.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
Troll! Everyone knows that our rights all come from Sandra Day O'Connor, the swing vote on the Supreme Court!
"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
"... the French can be insufferably arrogant for such a small country ..."
Je ne pas Francais or summit like that. But being British I as a thing or two 'bout the frogs. So what 'ave CD's gorra do wit t' war on't Iraq ?
Oh and the French are a member of the G7/8, and also on the UN's permanent security council. Which means that they ain't exactly small.
But back to the question of the CD's, "Did the buyer also claim for time wasted in getting a refund, and for the consequential physiological stress ?"
Though, disclosure of techniques should be mandatory.
If it is marketed as a standard audio CD, and it fails to play in a CDDA compliant device, refund.
If it says "may not play in all devices" and your device that won't play it is not on their list of devices that don't play it, refund.
However, if the industry wants to copy protect, let them so long as they are up front if it might interfere with playback, and offer refunds if it fails to play in a device they do not specifically state won't play it.
Yes, the companies can protect the cd's...
Nope, they can't invalidade the cd to play on cd readers. CD must be just as perfect as a non-protected...
Maybe this is the start of the end of those so called copy protection mecanisms that the only thing that they do is to add noise to the error controls of the cd's... and thrus making them more prone to damage and even unplayable in some readers!
the rights of the consumer to do what they want with their purchases (i.e. copy them and give copies to friends) vs the rights of the record companies to protect their property and their business. if they decide in favour of the consumers, the record companies no longer see profits in their business and simply stop making and selling music.
Err are you saying that the French are wrong to admire Woody Allen and Jerry Lewis? I think these are motre occasions that prove them right.
Witness the whole history of France. And as for French advice on 'Vietnam'- um you do know enough history to realize that Vietnam was a French colony don't you?
All the more reason to have taken notice of de Gaulle's warning. The French did not leave Vietnam from choice and they understood that the situation was unwinnable.
You do know some little thing about the Cold War perhaps? You know, the one the US won in the end by specifically not taking any advice from France. But that would involve knowing some history I think. You are wrong.
Oh dear, I don't know who won Vietnam according to Fox news but according to most of the mainstream news sources the US lost that one.
On the off-chance that you were referring to the US 'winning' the cold war, I fail to see the relevance of the claim which is dubious in any case. The USSR certainly lost the cold war, but Vietnam was backed by China, not the USSR and according to the news sources I read Vietnam and China are still communist. I don't know about Fox news, their coverage of China tends to be decided by Rupert's need to keep in well with the communist dictatorship so they will let him continue to broadcast star TV.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
If you have 5 speakers, technically you have circumvented a copy protection system?
There are none so blind as those who cannot see. If you cannot even accept the fact that the US won the cold war I don't know that there is a whole lot I or anyone can do for you. So there isn't much point in pointing out all of your errors. Again, you don't seem to have a grasp of history my friend. Take care, stay away from sharp objects and let me know how your recall of President Bush goes.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
Finally - crippled are considered defective !
Wait a minute, that doesn't sound right...
Lets see, how many square km of USSR territory does the US occupy today? Not one.
As I said, the USSR lost the cold war. That does not mean that the US won. There are very few wars in which either side can be said to have 'won'. The best you can usually hope for is to avoid loosing.
In the case of the US actions in the cold war very few can be said to be a great success. Take the 1953 coup in Iran to replace the democratically elected Prime Minister with a dictatorship friendly to UK/US oil industry interests under the Shah. Short term this was a success, but it was not very long before the inevitable happened and the Iranians threw out both the Shah and the US oil companies and became a major threat to US interests. The long term effect of the 1953 coup was to replace a democratic regime which was generally friendly to US interests with a theocracy where the US is still called the great Satan.
Almost without exception meddling in other countries affairs uder the guise of defeating communism has had nothing but bad effects for both the US and the people of the countries being 'helped'. US cold war meddling in Guatelmala led to a civil war and 400,000 dead. Chile the loss of a democratic regime, replacement with a dictatorship and at least 50,000 murdered.
The US lost the cold war because it surrendered its core values, its founding principles to fight an enemy that has since turned out to be nothing but a paper tiger. Instead of spreading democracy the fear of communism caused the cold warriors to fear it.
So now the neo-cons have made exactly the same mistake again in Iraq. They have started a war without an exit strategy. The only power in the region that can stop Iraq sliding into anarchy if the US withdraws is Iran. Opposing the US invasion has not weakened the UN security council, it has strengthened it. This was all predictable from the start of the war. The US is in a far, far worse position today than it was twelve months ago.
Fox news might keep telling you that the US won the cold war, Bill O'Reilly won a Peabody and George W Bush is respected internationally, but that does not make them true. Nor does it mean that people who disagree with the Fox news analysis hate America and what it stands for. As should be obvious to anyone who reads history it is the neo-cons who hate democracy and everything the founders of the US stood for.
People who wrap themselves in the flag and worship monuments to the ten commandments are most likely to turn out to believe in the values of neither, particularly the part about worshiping graven images.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
So if a CD won't play, it's an "American CD",
but if it does, it's a "Freedom CD"?
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
on copyprotected discs that were not to the published CD standards?
:-)
In which case, if EMI or their distributers are still selling defective disks as CDs Phillips will soon be setting their attack lawyers on them
I had been presented with an EMI audio cd with their lousy Copy Control CD protection scheme, actually this is I think Macrovision/Cactus Data Shield's thing which Avex proceeded to dump all over Japan. There's windows stuff which does it too it seems.
Well I had just seen this concert as a guest of the producer and I got the CD for free. I get back for a long coding session over the weekend and want to play it on my linux laptop of course..
Well after some swearing and wasted a lot of time I solved my personal problem and no, I'm not sharing it to the masses. Even though I suspect EMI has either done a bad job of the production, or has suffered reduced quality due to this scheme (I don't know if it is true but I read somewhere that these are really just 46 kbps wmf files.. if so that is robbery).
I told the producer that they should stop using that protection which in addition to making the cd not work on my laptop or in car stereos, also is quite easy to break, plus the recording either sucks or it is made worse by the protection scheme. I certainly wouldn't buy a cd with that protection on it normally.
I don't know if this is going to make a difference but I hope these organizations get as many complaints as possible from people who are seriously pissed about this situation. The artist of course knows nothing about the issue, it is not really considered by most people in the business either yet, the protection scheme just gets steamrolled everywhere as a matter of policy I'm sure. If you have a similar situation (especially if you've actually paid for the cd, since I got mine free) please tell them.
Does the CD manufacturer claim Red-Book compliance anywhere on the packaging?
A Good Intro to NetBS
Is the US the home of the frivilous lawsuit? Yes.
r ants139.html ]
Is the lady who successfully sued McDonalds for serving her coffee it KNEW was too hot to be safe an example? No.
[from http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/vivienne/438/
Here are some other facts in the case that you may be unaware of:
1.) For years, McDonald's were aware they had a problem with the way they make their coffee -- that their coffee was served much hotter than the industry standard by at least 20 degrees. In fact, they knew its coffee sometimes caused serious injuries -- more than 700 incidents of scalding coffee burns in the past decade have been settled by the Corporation. Yet they never so much as consulted a burn expert regarding the issue. It has been said that serving coffee this hot reduces the amount of coffee a restaurant has to make in a day and optimizes taste. Therefore, they make more money.
2.) A McDonald's quality assurance manager testified in the case that the Corporation was aware of the risk of serving dangerously hot coffee and had no plans to either turn down the heat or to post warning about the possibility of severe burns, even though most customers wouldn't think it was possible.
3.) The woman, an 81-year old former department store clerk who had never before filed suit against anyone, said she wouldn't have brought the lawsuit against McDonald's had the Corporation not dismissed her request for compensation for medical bills. Her injuries were serious -- third degree burns on her groin, thighs and buttocks that required skin grafts and a seven-day hospital stay. In all, she was burned over six percent of her body.
4.) The woman was sitting in the passenger seat of a car driven by her grandson. They went through a drive through, then he pulled to a stop out of the way of the next car behind them so she could open the coffee. It was then, in a stopped car, that the coffee spilled. One myth of this case is that she was driving the car and tried to open the coffee while the car was moving. And, finally,
5.) A report in Liability Week, September 29, 1997, indicated that Kathleen Gilliam, 73, suffered first degree burns when a cup of coffee spilled onto her lap. Reports also indicate that McDonald's consistently keeps its coffee at 185 degrees, still approximately 20 degrees or more hotter than at other restaurants. Third degree burns occur at this temperature in just two to seven seconds, requiring skin grafting, debridement and whirlpool treatments that cost tens of thousands of dollars and result in permanent disfigurement, extreme pain and disability to the victims for many months, and in some cases, years.
Yeah, so let's all have a big Libertarian weep-fest for poor old Mickey Dee's. They are obviously the victims here.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
If they're showing Philips' CD logo, they are.
They should just sell two versions of CDs. One without encryption and one with encryption. The price for the enrypted version would be cheaper. This would give people the option of saving money if they know they're never going to play it in an unencrypted player. And make sure the label distinctly says this. Therefore if you buy an encrypted CD and it doesn't work in your player, tough.
Go to the music store and buy a CD which has copy protection. Take it home, open it, attempt to play it on your stereo. If it works, try it in the car, in the bathroom CD, at your parents place. Once you find a machine which won't play it, return the CD to the store as defective. They'll give you another copy. A few days later, you can take that back, as defective.
Eventually they'll refuse to give you another CD. If they don't refund your purchase pricee, you can charge the store with theft. If you've been dealing with a national chain, make it a class action suit.
Small how?
France has 50 odd million people. They are a nuclear power. They are scientifically and culturally advanced. They have a mighty history that has arguably contributed more to the concepts of democracy and freedom than the USA has.
As for arrogance, there is really no contest these days as to which nation is the most arrogant. Most countries prefer not to rant on about being somehow special and better than the rest of the world, god's chosen country, the unique home of freedom, the most powerful nation in history and suchlike bullcrap. Most other countries also prefer not to rampage around the globe invading people like a bear with a sore head.
Just because you're militarily powerful, it doesn't make you great. I believe most people have a better idea of what the US's interests are than the current leaders of that fine nation.
Read Pynchon.
I don't expect that a single lawsuit will change EMI's policy.
However, if a CD is judged "defective" if it does not adhere to standards, I wonder if the same logic can be applied to software. I've got plenty of software that works for 90%, but does not completely follow the standard. Can I go to court and get a refund?