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China Plans Manned Space Flight October 15
epmos writes "As previously reported on /., China is working toward launching a manned space flight Real Soon Now(tm). Many news sites have
stories suggesting it could be as soon as a week away. The flight is expected to last about 90 minutes and complete one orbit." According to some of these stories, though, there's speculation about the flight lasting up to 24 hours.
Were this to be a longer flight, how would they solve the problem of eating with chopsticks in low gravity?
Don't believe anything I say. I crash test crack pipes for a living.
[1800s-style Imperialist Brit Mode On]
Next you'll be telling us that old Johnny Chinaman has gained mastery
over the atom and created a doomsday weapon ready to threaten our
very own God-fearing people.
Well never fear gentle-people, in my new steam-o-matic flying machine
I'll quickly handle this yellow menace so your children can sleep
soundly!
God Bless Queen Victoria
[1800s-style Imperialist Brit Mode Off]
They want their space program back.
:()
(Sorry.
you mean it's never been done before?
...90 minutes later, they'll have the urge to orbit again.
unfortunately, the US and Russia probably won't be part of this space race, which may leave us behind the times.
instead, we'll have China, India, and a few other countries making leaps and bounds, possibly passing both the US and Russia before either country figures out to re-join the space race.
i don't think this is necessarily a "good thing".
I hope everything goes successfully for the Chinese, and I hope that this is only the beginning for a long Chinese manned space program.
Additionally, let this serve as a wake-up call to us, that manned space exploration is a common goal and desire that we all share.
In other news, people of China have discovered the VCR, the internet, and thicker toilet paper infused with aloe-vera ...
Once they make it to the moon and notice that there is no flag, footprints, or left over rocket parts, then we'll know that the "one small step for mankind" occured somewhere in the Arizona desert.
And why is that? Developing space technology can only be a good thing.
If the US and Russia are too lazy to get off their collective asses and meet the challenge, it's their fault - not China's, India's or other more innovative countries fault.
BOO! TERRO
My favorite quote from today's news regarding the Chinese space mission is from this story:
"They'll be able to eat shredded pork with garlic sauce and kungpao chicken," China.com said. "It will be more tasty than Western food."
they have some well thought out elaborate plans already to inhabit the moon.. I don't blame them, it must be getting crowded over there.
bite my glorious golden ass.
Great, a repressive country that hates the entire planet, has nuclear weapons, is mentally unstable, and now can send people into orbit.
Enough about the USA, what about China?
--
This sig is inoffensive.
Imagine you are about to get into your country's first manned space mission. They are going to strap a lot of (explosive) fuel to your behind, and launch you into space. They tell you that you are supposed to make only one revolution and then come back.. or you could be up there for 24 hours.....
Exactly how comfortable do you feel as you buckle yourself in? What do you think your chances are of seeing Saturn's rings *really* close? Survival of reentry? Becoming that little satellite the Americans or Russians wave at 10 years from now when the new shuttle replacement flies for the first time?
Next then you know, Mars won't be called the Red planet due to it's color.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Hey, don't badmouth the US now!
How about now??
bah!*@%!
My sig is bigger than your sig
Chinese-American astronaut Ed Lu has been on the International Space Station since April and will be returning later this month in a Soyuz capsule. You can read his blog here .
Seriously though, I'd be worried if I was the astronaut/cosmonaut/chinesenaut (or whatever the chinese call theirs) going up and they still hadnt worked out how long I was gonna be in orbit for 1 week before the launch!! Talk about leaving it til the last minute
Actually, the scary thing is that this is an excellent first step to the Moon and then onwards and upwards to Mars.
In fact, a conservative estimate would be that they could land on the moon in less than five years. Part of what took us (U.S.) so long was all the groundwork that needed to be done. Heck, now you can go into Barnes and Noble, or any other reasonably large bookstore, and buy the official NASA documents on the space program.
And considering the how much electronics have shrunk in the past 40 years, they won't need to put so much weight into orbit, or they could use that weight for more passengers or supplies.
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
With Hosts Kenny Blankenship & Vic Romano!
Relive the BBS Past - One Byte at a Time! www.ssabbs.com
s/USA/China/ and ask yourself the same question.
What challenge? I hope you aren't referring to putting a man sub-orbital, orbital, building a space station or going to the moon because I think they have all been done. Regardless, good luck to China, I hope they succeed.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
Or did anybody else think that the headline could have been lifted from the Onion? Granted, it probably would have read something like "China Begins Plans Oct. 8 for Manned Space Flight on Oct. 15"...I can see some quotes from the article now.
When asked about the shortened timetable, a spokesman for the Chinese space program replied "Yeah, we're pretty sure that it'll only take about a week to get the materials together, train the crew, and whatever else. I mean, sure we've estimated some insane number of man-hours to put this thing together, but just look at the number of men we've got available! We're guessing that a whole week is going to leave us with plenty of time left over for this 'testing' and 'safety evaluation' stuff we keep hearing so much about."
In all seriousness, I've seen a post or two about the fear level associated with a country that has nukes suddenly developing spaceflight, and thought to myself "gee, what if every interested country around the world could participate in a collaborative effort to further the space exploration/colonization efforts that we've so far been working on alone, and we never had to worry about who might nuke who or whose foreign policy didn't want the other guys playing in his sandbox? We'd probably learn a lot more working together and sharing the knowledge we have, wouldn't that be cool?". Then I got really sad, because I know how realistic that kind of thing is.
"Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix"- Kieren O'Shaughnessy
My question is whether we'll see any semblance that the launch system can rendezvous with the ISS (and then, if it's based on Soyuz architecture, whether it can dock), or will it be too low in earth orbit.
And if it can dock, whether there's a minimum order for Kung Pao delivery. *ba da bum*
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
The news article says they are planning a single orbit, but you know how it goes: one hour later and they will feel like they need to orbit again.
-Crolis
Today's story:
BEIJING, Oct. 8 -- After a decade of preparation, China will launch its first human being into space on Oct. 15 in a 90-minute flight that will orbit the Earth once, a major Chinese Web site reported in one of the most concrete signs yet that the landmark trip is imminent.
In 2013:
BEIJING, Oct. 15 - As part of a celebration of its first decade of manned space flight, China announces an agreement with the USA's NASA space agency to outsource all space-related operations. An unnamed NASA official said: "Well, they can do it cheaper than we can - we can hire three taikonauts for what it costs us to loft one astronaut - and who cares if some foreigners get killed repairing our satellites?"
In related news, all remaining astronauts have been informed that their services are no longer needed, and offered placement services for lucrative positions in the fast food industries.
Hrm, does that mean I can get real Chinese food delivered to me in 10minutes? ::)
-- taking over the world, we are.
Mercury-Redstone 3 (USA) Alan Shepard 5-May-61
As for your other complaints... how exactly is it the fault of the US that loans are hard to obtain in Brazil or jobs in Nicaragua. Sure there are US banking interestes in Brazil and US employers in Nicaragua but why can't those contries support their own banking and employment? If anything the US is doing a favor by supplementing the local job market with additional employment. Sure those jobs don't make what similiar jobs in the US would make but isn't it better than nothing?
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
I didn't write the books.. don't shoot the messenger
bite my glorious golden ass.
And why is that?
because NASA has already been getting a bad rap with the public lately.
if NASA is late joining the new space race, and other countries get ahead, public support would sway even further away from what would be perceived as an inept agency wasting money.
if NASA doesn't attempt to at least stay in check with a modern space race, it could spell the end of government funded space exploration in this country.
while some may perceive this as a good thing, i happen to believe that the government still has a place in space exploration -- just not in the space tourism business, private companies are coming in to take up that slack.
there's a difference between private companies picking up the space tourism, and the perception that NASA space exploration is being surpassed by what most people still consider to be "third world countries".
I don't see how we could be behind the times. They didn't develop their own space program, they bought some old russian parts.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
There is a chance that the US may go back to the 60's too. And one could say that with the Russian capsules, they never left the 60's.
Dogma - "let's just say we'd like to avoid any empirical entanglements."
Hah, so China is on the same level as John Carmack and a few of his friends. Yep, there is a Super Power in the making.
I'm afraid this joke might become a bit stale if/when the Chinese government decides to use their new found ability to throw rocks from great heights and Tibet us. It's a far cry from manned orbit to Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but it can be done.
I know, I know, I'm paranoid - but I'm an Israeli, it's in my upbringing.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Calm down, it was only a joke.
I do find most Americans abroad are quite loud and obnoxious, but on the times I have visited your country I've only experienced courtesy and service of the highest order.
The honest truth.
--
This sig is inoffensive.
They didn't develop their own space program, they bought some old russian parts.
China also didn't invent Linux, but they did manage to adapt it, and build on it, to produce their Red Flag operating system.
just because they're starting out with purchased parts, doesn't mean that they won't develop anything new. it simply means that they have a jump on where they would be had they developed all of the technology themselves.
Without that country sending goods to stock the shelves, your local Wal-Mart would look like Who-ville after the Grinch got done with it. If you're one of the 99% of Americans who send a good chunk of your cash to China every time you go shopping, you hardly have any business complaining about what they decide to spend your money on after you've just willingly given it to them.
How about creating an entire space program that can put a person into orbit for less than the US spends on maintaining the Shuttle for one year. There space program is only costing something like 3 billion dollars.
will say "Made In China"?
you are not paranoid!
you are isreali,you have DO have enemies.
i'm not too worried about the chinese government attacking "us",as a certain superpower demonstrated recently,if you want to wage a war against the wishes of the UN and in contravention of international law you just do it.
people will whine but in the long run might=right
...us or the Chinese? ;-)
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
They didn't develop their own space program, they bought some old russian parts.
World War II. German scientists. USA.
it's in my head
I hope they do launch on october the 15th, i can't think of anything else memorable happening on that day, except me being born of course :p
I wish Europe would have made it to the 60s but on the other hand is really that inportant to have maned space flights nowadays or is it just goo for publicity?
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
Great chineese food delivery goes orbital. I bet they'll be making devileries to the ISS by 2006.
Possible names for their space crafts:
1) The General Tso
2) The Sweet and Sour Shuttle
3) The Communist Surprise
I have no
I do find most Americans abroad are quite loud and obnoxious, but on the times I have visited your country I've only experienced courtesy and service of the highest order.
The reason you experience all of those Americans abroad is because we can't stand them either.
---This is America do it our way or get out.... Those people got out.See the Pictures of the Flood of '08
You're mistakening North Korea for China.
Regards,
Spock_NPA
Here is the Chinese space program in all its glory.
The China Space Capsule (space.com)
The China Manned launch vehicle (SpaceDaily.com)
The China Manned Launch vehicle (SpaceDaily.com)
I think it is simple - due to Earth rotation if you do not come down at the end of the first orbit the following ones will take you further and further from the main China where I presume all their search and rescue facilities are. In 24 hours you will be back over China again. So one-orbit plan and 24 hours (17 orbits?) backup plan seem logical.
And why is that? Developing space technology can only be a good thing.
Oh please. That's untrue. I can think of a number of ways that developing space technology can be bad -- lauching a man into orbit is essentially declaring that you have intercontinental ballistic missile technology (to some extent launching anything into orbit is, but putting a man up there means that you can carry a much larger payload and do so with high reliability -- both big points). You could also develop "space technology" toward the point of mass launchers which have the destruction potential of nuclear weapons with less radiation and other issues.
Is this the purpose behind China launching a man into orbit? I seriously doubt it. But blanket statements like that are silly. It's like saying that nuclear power is only a bad thing -- it's not the technology that is good or bad, it's the application there of. And pretty much any technology can be used for either.
If the US and Russia are too lazy to get off their collective asses and meet the challenge
Russia is a bit more concerned with how to feed itself and pay its people than with the space program. The US has other interests at the moment. Manned space programs are largely viewed as a black hole for public spending -- because while they do return benefits in the form of new technologies, they do so irregularly and with highly indirect benefits. It's unlikely that the manned space program will ever repay itself directly.
I'd like to see the human race off this single mudball as well, but inane sophistry like that doesn't help things.
These happened on Oct. 15:
70 BC: Virgil born.
1844: Friedrich Nietzsche born.
1908: John Kenneth Galbraith born.
1917: Mata Hari, the Dutch dancer and spy for the Germans, was executed by firing squad near Paris.
1946: Convicted Nazi war criminal Hermann Goering poisoned himself the day before he was to be executed.
1951: I Love Lucy premiered on CBS.
1991: The Senate confirmed the nomination of Clarence Thomas to the US Supreme Court by a 52 to 48 vote.
Ummm.
Maybe you're right...
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Actually citizens cannot be detained this way.
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
The United State's space program is a flabby, stagnant beauracracy. It needs an enema at the top, an exercise program in the middle, and some moral support in the rank and file. Most of all, it needs to take a long, hard look at boron/proton fusion, and get busy designing ships that can use it for swift interplanetary travel.
The fact that both China and India have space programs is beautiful to me. Remember who was first in space? Not John Glenn, but Yuri Gagarin. Perhaps NASA will recover from its existing case of cranial rectitis (hint: leaves a brown ring around your neck) when faced with a large, motivated competitor with a growing economy.
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
... the XPRIZE!
Can't the US patent travelling to the moon or something, or claim copy right on the entire moon?
Oops... the Russians had a probe there first.
OOps... China doesn't care about the USPO.
M@
Krispy Cream is people
Evil nations should not have access to space.
Only the good nations should have access to space.
That, if something, is inane sophistry.
BOO! TERRO
Maybe cuz I grew up in the 60's I can't help but view all these cute Slashdotters falling over themselves to praise China's space 'initiatives' with the same patronizing bemusement I normally reserve for the 14-year-olds just discovering Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd, and carrying on like someone has just invented a brand new musical note.
"Putting a Man in Space?" Great. Super. Wake me when he lands on Mars...
By any chance do the words "GET ME THE HELL OUT OF HERE!" appear anywhere in that blog?
Technoli
Not to be negative or anything, I really want them to get into space. But how many "attempts" do you think will be made before they actually get into space and back safely? Truthfully, I'd say it is alot braver stepping into a craft that has high loss rates. How many of those ships were lost at sea trying to make it across the Atlantic? Now, how often do you here of commerical shipping being "lost at sea?" I don't consider our selfs at the crossing the Atlantic phase. I'd consider that star to star travel that could take generations. We are not making the full use of our solar system. Heck we aren't making the full use of all those oceans and those deserts we should be able to think of something usefult to do with them. :)
One of the major flaws, perhaps, with the US democratic system is that it is predicated on a 4 year cycle of election and re-election. This tends to make planning for long-term projects politically disadvantageous to the White House incumbent who ideally wants to see "returns" during his period in office. It is not often that grand projects such as the Interstate system or the Apollo program are enacted.
China is very different. There is a single monolithic party in power. Also do not forget that this a people who have a collective ethno-genetic memory spanning thousands of years who have historically proven willing and able to plan decades and centuries ahead.
Couple the above with the fact that all 9 members of the Standing Committee of the Communist Party politburo are engineers by training and you realize that the forthcoming manned flight is not a flash-in-the-pan but part of a broader strategic decision to achieve preeminence in space.
This is part of a collective Long March by which China aims to overtake the USA in almost every field of human endeavour. This will perhaps take 50 to a 100 years - a sizeable period to the American world-view but much less so to the Chinese mindset. Given the extraordinary progress China has already made since the 1970s we would be fools to doubt their ability to go the rest of the way.
According to some news, the launch will be broadcasted live on the state run CCTV. Everyone here at the university campus is talking about what if there is a failure. I guess Challenger, Columbia and the numerous failures are still so vivid in our mind now. Even the 92% success rate of the Long March rocket claimed by the Chinese authority does not make me more comfortable. Afterall, what is the real significance of a manned mission like this? Russia, the USA have all done manned space flight, long long time ago. This is not all about nation's pride? Give me a break!
And just why China is spending this huge amount of money into a manned mission instead of putting more money into helping the kids in remote areas to go to school and reduce the poverty rate in the rural areas?
As a Chinese, I am not really proud of this event at all.
As an earthling, I wish we are landing on the Mars by now.
It all depends on how quickly China decides to do all of its actions. It took the US space program more or less an entire decade in order to go from sub-orbital to orbital to the moon. How quickly is China going to push things? If they can learn from the past mistakes and go forth with a solid program, why wouldn't the space race come back? It may not be the best thing for the US right now, but wait until they have their new vehicle designed, built, and then redesigned and rebuilt due to the beuracracy, and then the race will be back on.
Given that God is infinite, and the Universe is also infinite, would you like some toast?
Actually, I believe that a citizen's rights as a citizen are revoked when they are declared an 'enemy combatant'. IIRC, this can be done 'at a whim', without any trial or judge's oversight.
Many persons in middle eastern countries have found bombs falling on them out of the sky. Some days later, the pavers showed up; a few days after that, some men came and painted some diagonal yellow lines all over it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Can /.er speak to this:
Are the Chinese reinventing the wheel here or are they actively using US and Russian experience.
I mean sending a guy up to do an orbit sounds to me (as a total layman in space programs) as a "we doing all this ourselves from the ground up" method.
I mean do they have to incinerate 3 astronauts in a oxygen rich capsule too?
If this is the case, it's kind of sad that they can't build on the experience already in-place. I mean this is science after all.
Yeah yeah, I know I being naive... we can't let them slanty-eyed commies near our military-industrial space-based jobs program, but damn - seems a shame.
2. Tie little yellow fella to top of firework
3. Light blue touch paper, Profit!, and retire.
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
is it just me or is there nothing wrong with how everything there is...
1. Voting hasnt helped us "free" people much.
2. Criminals deserve torture, you're in prision for a reason.
3. So they dont have riots? thats bad?
4. I hear they just accept many religions into their own religion so does it really matter what they call themselves?
5. I dont think telling women how many children they can have in an already crowded place is very violent. There has to be some type of limit before they all run out of resources.
6. Once again, why do prisoners need rights? also, americans are lazy and weak and expect everyone to be the same. Maybe the reason the chinese get so much done is because their workers work longer hours in more hazardous fields(less cost).
I just dont see why everyone thinks china and all those other places are inhumane, I guess its just how I was raised... everyone pulls their own weight and dosent complain...
+1 funny where the heck are mod pints when you need them.
"A good friend will bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, 'damn....that was fun!'"
Well, look at it this way. If you place a hamburger in front of you, carefully, it won't go anywhere. Blow on it and the wind would be enough for it to sail away. It will probably come apart, because there's nothing to prevent that from happening. If you replace the burger with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich it will fly away, but it won't come apart. It's glued together. So, if you stick to (heh) sticky food, you can scoop it off the plate with a Spork (of course). It will stick to the plate AND the Spork. Then it will stick to the roof of your mouth. So, it seems that a bowl of beef stew will become God's own mess but Jello might not. Just think how difficult it is to get some stuff off dishes in the sink. I mean fresh, not 3 days old... So, sticky food on a plate could work. As far as the action/reaction forces are concerned, if it's on the plate and you are holding it, it all balances out. You don't go flying off into a bulkhead or something. But of course, IANAnA.
We would much prefer the foes to clearly define themselves... terrorists don't wear uniforms and march under a common flag you know.
> (thus impoverishing the government)
It wouldn't be impoverished if they stopped playing the role of a twisted robbin hood.. stealing from the middle and upper class and giving it away to anyone who asks... here or abroad.
Our BigGov needs to get back to basics.. actually doing what it is mandated to do by the constitution.. that alone would resolve many of these issues.
If you agree.. I'd encourage you to join up with the Free State Project and help set an example of how things CAN be done.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -HLM
If that's true, I got two bits that within 4 years there will a dozen extra restrooms on the moon too.
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Until someone uses that right to bear arms and blow away BUSH and his CRONIES there will be no safety in this world. IMHO the world was a safer place when the USSR was still alive and kicking. Still Bush is bringing back the practices of the KGB so Amerika and comrade Bush has taken their place. Unfortunately there's no-one with the military might to keep him in check. I used to admire America with there freedom's and constitution, but now I wouldn't even visit the place let alone live there. I might be overheard critisizing the government and end up in Amerika's concentration camp in Cuba. OH! Wait. I probably just set off a dozen echelon alarms, so I WAS overheard. Let the FLAMES start.
Red eye's at night, Hackers delight. Red eye's in the morning, Professors Warning.
From what I have read, there is not legal definition of "enemy combatant" it was somthing made up by Ashcroftt. Despite a federal judges ruling that the citizens being held without charge must be released, the justice department has not complied. This is actually even scarier than it being legal.
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
...But this is not connected to the Patriot Act.
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
....illegally. A federal Judge has ordered them released, but the Justice department has not complied.
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
Ok, we've "been there, done that" for 40-odd years. Now suddenly it's not enough for China that they join the Space Age, but they are doing it at a pace that
1) seems absurd when compared to the decreasing interest by existing space-going countries, and
2) makes them look like they are racing against the clock.
It really makes you wonder, do they know something we don't?
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
I bet you boycot all chinese imports as well. Oh you don't yeah I know talk is cheap, actually trying to find something still produced in the west not.
Either do something about it or shut the fuckup.
Personally I can see china for what it is, a messy dictatorship that is now doing what the rest of the world was doing a couple of decades ago. Or in the case of the US is still doing on some points. Tell me american, when exactly was the ban on mixed race marriages really lifted in all states? When was the last racial murder? When was the last person incarcerated without due process?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Sounds like Bush's Amerika.
Red eye's at night, Hackers delight. Red eye's in the morning, Professors Warning.
Compare the Chinese capsule system with an early Russian Soyuz A capsule.
The Chinese claim that their capsule was designed in-house. "It was all me own work guvnor!"
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
their shuttles will explode into multiple colours... ours tend to only be one...
(duck)
... spectorating all that rubish about militarizing space, the Moon begins to look like an attractive strategic location.
It may give a huge military strategic advantage to its "owner".
If fear is what is going to get us out of this planet, soo be it. The sooner space travel becomes a reality the better.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Looks like at least two moderators need to get the sand out of their vagina today...
BOO! TERRO
I wouldn't call it willing, neccesarily. Have you ever tried to buy most common consumer goods? Its pretty hard to find a lot of stuff made in the USA.
Sorry to tell you this, but China already has ICBMs. Had them for decades. In fact, China recently has been selling payload space on Longmarches.
It's not their rocket program that's behind, it's their manned program.
Ninety minutes is the minimum flight time, since China has no water recovery fleet and the vehicle isn't design for splash down. Assuming they want it to land back in China, it has to go at least once around.
That may be all they're planning on. With more than a couple of orbits the ground track will be such that they can't land in China until the Earth and orbit track synch up again. I haven't looked at the likely orbital inclination to figure it out, but that could well be nearly 24 hours (16 or 17 orbits) after launch.
Presumably if all goes well during the first orbit, and they have the consumables (power, O2, etc) aboard, they could go for further orbits, but they may plan on taking it cautiously.
-- Alastair
Were African-American slaves better off because their master provided them the bare necessities for life, but didn't allow them to really live? Two months after they were freed, they had no job and were probably finding it more difficult to survive. However, they were better off because they had control over their own destiny.
10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.
Actually it is more of a question of markups and profit margins involved in the sale of these goods then the original production methods. Between that and the American/European "Fatcats" who are making the money manufacturing these products in China; China is getting very little from this then temporary small pay for a small percentage of its enormous pop. and some outdated factories. Most goods for export are still manufactured in trade zones and do not fall under taxable manufacturing for the Chinese government.
All the US has to do (which is unlikely) to become productive as a manufacturing nation again is open worker visa's, void of most pay and recompensation restrictions set on all companies in america on all inhabitants (instead palace a citizenship rule on this), to the masses and make them cheap to get. Watch the Mexicans pile over the border then working for less then minimium in American. That will show these slashdotters who believe America no longer has civil liberties which country is better to live in. Let them move to a country that they think has more freedoms AND the ability to protect those freedoms.
Pardon my rant...
--"Sorry for the inconvience." Gods Last Words to his Creation
DNA, So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
The problem in a lot of areas is that IMF and World Bank monetary aid is tied into financial modernization and hooking into the world economy. For most this means cash crop agriculture and exploitative labor. Land ownership is centralized to be competitive and the workers tend to be employees vs sharecroppers or small land holders. When the commodity price drops as is the case with coffee now, farms layoff workers leading to large unemployment without the social welfare system enjoyed by developed nations.
The solution would be to diversify the economy, but this is difficult without foreign investment which is largely interested in the two above forms of industry.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
Welcome China...to the 1970s.
(from SNL)
"China about 40 years behind the West space-tech-wise"
Just because they waited until now does not mean they are using low tech methods. It could be quite the contrary, since they have the benefit of current technology and a clean slate (whereas all we can think to do is launch a space shuttle
that follows the same basic design as the original concept that I saw as early as 1971).
> and about 350 years behind Human Rights-wise.
Well, on one hand, the Chinese government is atrocious, and on another hand the Chinese people seem frighteningly complacent to this. But individual accounts from people who have lived there do not paint such a horrible picture at all.
I'm not willing to paint all of China with the brush that certain conservative interests want me to use.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
For all of you deriding the Chinese... don't be so sure. Those chinese are cagey. Remember the Tsien was supposed to be a space station... until they mounted those rockets on it and beat us to Europa.
Personally, I think that dastardly Fu Manchu is behind all of this. He might be trying to contact his long lost brother, Ming the Merciless.
Wait, that's the alarm clock. Time to wake up. See you later.
Actually, this is a very bad misconception. To governments, life is a propoganda tool, that is used to massage the 'will' of the masses. Reference recent history.
The loss of 7 lives in a re-entry accident is used by the government to achieve a huge (and very subtle) shift if expenditures. This is being used very effectively behind the scenes to promote the concept of scrapping the shuttle program, in the meantime, no launches, so, no money being spent on launches.
The daily loss of life overseas is being promoted as 'the cost' and a 'justifiable cost' of enforcing a foreign policy on a region that wants no part of it.
It's all how you spin it, and how the press regurgitates the spin. If you can make the masses believe that losing 7 astronauts is 'to much', then you can gain political support for an objective that doesn't include a shuttle program. If you can make the masses believe hundreds of lives are 'worth the price' to support an overseas invasion, then you can gain support for huge expenditures on that program.
Body count is just a propoganda tool, to be used when convenient, and to be swept under the rug when inconvenient. That applies to ALL governments, including the american government.
If China decides to go into space the way they went to sea in the 1400's (64 ships, some *huge*, 28,000 men!) this could be very interesting indeed, see article.
I read an article on New Scientist, and I guess it sums up the coolness of this flight:
'Xie Guangxuan, director of China Rocket Design Department, told the Chinese news web site Sina.com: "China's space technology has been created by China itself. We may have started later than Russia and the US, but it's amazing how fast we've been able to do this."'
Also, remember that stunt Brazil pulled a few months back? The big cheese of these events is that people are getting more interested in space flight, and so, as the others have commented, the world will be spurred into another space race - hopefully culminating in a serious funding increase for international space programs.
There's a 68.71% chance you're right.
Slashdot still needs a RSN category (see my previous post) but this flight is certainly a lot more likely than a 20 fold improvement in solar cell efficiency.
Only trouble is, I proposed that the icon for the RSN Promis Fulfilled category be a cash register with vapor coming out of it. Since the Chinese aren't selling anything here (yet) that seems inappropriate now.
Then again, if this succeeds they will eventually get all kinds of economic spinoffs from it.
From the bitterness department: How much longer would this have taken if Bill Clinton and some dirty associates at Loral Systems hadn't sold classified missile technology? The Clinton admin did on a smaller scale what the German rocket scientists did for the US. They should name their first space station after Bill Clinton.
From the Wall Street department: This continues to prove that the "China as export market" theory used by Free Traders is full of holes. China is so large that it can create its own home grown industries in just about anything now. Yes, there will be some opportunities, but not nearly as much as some predicted. Yes. You can stop drooling about the "billion customers" because you will be competing with Local Industry that gets there first, and has a distinct advantage. Not that it can't be done mind you. There's not too much to stop the US from doing to China what Japan did to the US in the 70s with cars, but it's not as easy as just "opening China". We actually have to make something that the Chinese can afford and will be willing to buy. Imagine that!
To elaborate further, this will really be a kick to the whole Chinese aerospace industry. Could there be a Chinese answer to Boeing in the future? If I were an aerospace incumbent, I'd be quaking in my boots right now. I'd probably even offer discounts to the Chinese just to keep them from competing in aerospace. Boeing, Airbus, etc... If the Chinese go into that business then short, Short, SHORT the aerospace stocks!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Before we have an uncontrolled explosion of crap, much like the internet, we need to declare a World Department of Space Exploration that is in charge of scheduling launches, arrivals, and trajectories. If we don't establish a system of space management, we could in fact be increasing our odds of having more debris scattered across our states. Anyone remember the mess and legal problems with the Discovery shuttle explosion? The last thing I need is a hunk of the cockpit landing on my hood as I drive down the highway on my way to pickup my grandmother from the airport.
-- Game Developers: Stop porting badly-textured games from crappy console systems!
We do have good propulsion systems that use Nuclear Energy the problem is that sending radioactive mather in a space craft is restricted because is considered unsafe to the general pupulation (in the case of a space craft blowing up in low orbit or during takeoff/entry) and the lack of gravity is not a problem. there are machines designed to simulate gravity on space.
Creating a moon base of operations is what the Human Race needs. To start populating the space with real space stations out of earth gravity ring and colonizing Mars. Our pupulation is groing and the resources in this rock are not unlimited. We need to do something about it NOW that we can.
One of the bigest problems with NASA is the fact that its budget is way to small (compare it to the US Army) it's something in the range of 1/1000
BSD licensed software can't be stolen....
What if China claims the United States never landed on the Moon in 1969 after they successfully have their probe orbit the Moon? What is the U.S. going to do? I'm sure the Chinese probe will have modern surveilance equipment on board. And yes, I know, the probe launch will follow China's John Glenn-esque mission that is the first up.
I'd like to point out I'm not advocating that our government faked the Apollo Moon missions (ala *Capricorn One*), but I will find it interesting if China proclaims this...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Most Impressive, I'd say... I can identify the assembly hanger and the launch pad (see the two tall buildings?), but besides that, I don't know enough about it to make a guess. Any thoughts?o mviewer/ind ex.php?display_img=chinaprelaunch
http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/zo
There's a 68.71% chance you're right.
The world needs to forget about their pride for a while. It sickens me that the only reason any progress is ever made is because we're trying to "prove" ourselves over other nations, and that it's "an embarassment" and "an insult" when one nation achieves a goal before another does.
It's as if no one in any government (or any citizen, for that matter) has ever graduated from middle school.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
You mean, sort of how like the Bush Administration leaked the identity of a covert CIA agent when her husband revealed a coverup about the war in Iraq??
-- I hereby announce, on behalf of my great ancester Oog, a retroactive patent on THE WHEEL.
They know how to run a proper space program.
The US, as evidenced by the huge boondoggle that is the ISS, the continued use of the outdated shuttle program, and not even maintaining proper saftey standards, does not.
No, my message (the first part at least) boils down to the reality that a misused tool, whether out of malice or ignorance, can do damage. The OP attempted to claim that space flight could do nothing but good, and that's just plain bullshit.
I didn't even state that the Chinese shouldn't have manned flight -- frankly I'm indifferent on the matter. Sure, I'd much rather see the US doing more in space, but I don't have any inherent objections to the Chinese (or Indians or whoever) doing it instead. The more the merrier -- as long as we all play nice. The same goes for nuclear power. Hell, the same goes for fire.
That, if something, is inane sophistry.
Then I suggest you study history more. Denying opponents critical advantages on the basis of right vs wrong has been a fundamental tenent of humanity for a few thousand years. It never works in the long run (unless you or another opponent of theirs manages to wipe them out), but that doesn't change reality.
Where would science be without germany? They publish like what 40% of all scientific papers? Too bad scientific german is the most daunting of all specialized languages to learn.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
"China is working toward launching a manned space flight Real Soon Now(tm). Many news sites have stories suggesting it could be as soon as a week away."
PRC doesn't have access to the numerous ground tracking stations that NASA has access to for its manned missions. In order to keep in touch with the capsule, the People's Army-Navy has some communications ships whose primary purpose for being are to be communications relays. When these ships leave port for points around the globe, it's a pretty good sign that a Chinese launch goes from "Real Soon Now" to "Any Minute Now."
It looks as though Arthur Clarke may be able to correctly predict the future. The Chinese Space Organization in his 2001 series books was of such prominence that it outshined every other administration. It looks like China is off to a good start on that path.
The schedule in his books pertained to their level of achievement reaching a profound pinnacle within 60 years(the story of 2061, 3rd book in the series). That timeframe from today is absolutely possible.
--"The perfect example of the man of action is the suicide." - William Carlos Williams
Then they shouldn't have taken on the loans if they can't meet the terms.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
- Hollywood will come out with a new blockbuster movie loosely based on '2001: A Space Odessey'. HAL 9000 will be instead HAN 9000, a supercomputer that speaks Mandarin, plays Chinese chess, and of course, runs on Red Flag Linux. It'll control a bunch of Mechanotronics that do zero-gravity Kung-Fu with a Taikonaut played by Jet Li.
- Finally Tom Clancy will have a new 'Evil Empire' to replace the former USSR with in his books.
-- I hereby announce, on behalf of my great ancester Oog, a retroactive patent on THE WHEEL.
Do we really need more manned explorations? If all we want to know is whether there's life on Mars, all we need to do is to send a next-generation AIBO to do the diggin'. What we need is the colonization and commercialization of space (beyond the satellite business).
The word "manned" is sexist. Please, in future, refer to such flights as "staffed missions".
"This mission has a large staff. I'm sure I could find a suitable position for you, working on that staff."
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
Where there's a will, there's a way.
Judging by NASAs recent performance Where there's a will, there's a wake.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
I think they're sending it up to drop bombs on something.
Maybe if USA didn't invade those countries (yes USA did invade, not with the military but with the CIA) then some of those countries wouldn't be as badly off as they are.
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
Then they shouldn't have taken on the loans if they can't meet the terms.
Actually the people who are going to get a shock when these countries stop paying their debt will be those in the rich countries (read: you and me). The so-called loans that countries like USA give out are nothing more than grants. Don't expect to see them back ever again. What USA and others are doing is what Noam Chomsky roughly referred to as "socializiation of debt"--a concept that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone on the left. USA doesn't write off the debt and when these countries do collapse, USA will get hit big time.
I predict that the collapse of the developing countries due to debt might cause the collapse of capitalism. Let's wait and see if I'm right...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
I'm not a liberatarian but...
The Free State Project is supposed to be liberatarian-right. You certainly are on the right but I doubt that you are much of a liberatarian. I don't know how your state is going to survive with people like you around. The first statement alone shows that you are not much of a liberatarian. I don't see how a liberatarian can support an open-ended war with no trials, indefinite jail, etc. In addition, you seem to imply that you support imperialist wars. Again, this is contrary to many liberatarian views.
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
What you are saying would actually mean something if:
- you held to your principles (i.e. ended up overthrowing all despotic, totalitarian, etc regimes starting with Kuwait)
- If the newly formed govt was democracy-like. So far, the Iraqi govt is a hand-picked govt run by Chalabi (a thief who actually stole millions of dollars from the US govt). And all the signs indicate that Iraq will be run by an autocratic govt.
Sivaram VelauthapillaiSivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
I don't think you know your history very well.
Ever heard of something called Iran-Contra? US did invade with the CIA (of course, I'm not implying that they invaded with their military). Check out this link: The history of U.S. intervention in Nicaragua.
While you are at it, here are all the US interventions in the last hundread years or so:
A history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the Caribbean
A Brief History of U.S. Interventions: 1945 to the Present
Hope you learn something...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
Chomsky has no talent whatsoever for accurately describing anything politically or socially with any degree of accuracy.
lol... I guess this is the case of a fool dismissing someone intelligent because he couldn't understand a word that was said...
Capitalism will never collapse: free trade and the people having control over their own lives is a natural state that things gravitate to.
That's what all you capitalists like to believe. Anyway, there are many reasons it won't happen but I'll just cite one: class war. Capitalism will result in wealth being hoarded by a few. It's already happening but it will get worse. There will come a point when the lower classes, who always outnumber the upper classes, will overthrow the system. It's inevitable... On another note, if you think capitalism is "natural", how come it didn't exist 500 years ago? If you look at capitalism from a historical perspective, its life is so short to be meaningless. Fedualism, monarchy, and theocracies have lived longer. Mind you, some of these aren't economic systems. However, you can't practice capitalism with these systems (eg. you can't have capitalism and monarchy because monarchy limits property based on blood).
The only time it goes away is when fascist dictators take over...
Actually you can practice fascism on top of capitalism (as Nazis and Fascists (in Italy) did). Fascism is not the enemy of capitalism; socialism and to some extent anarchism are!
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
I was only countering your implication that we shouldn't be fighting terrorism at all.. I may disagree with the way the current administration is going about it... but there is no question to me that we need to be fighting it. Now.. if we were not spending so much on those social programs I brought up we could also defend our borders here at home. You have a problem with an 'open ended' war.. no clear enemy etc... I don't like it either.. but the reality is THAT is what we have to deal with.. we are not fighting a nation state.. we are fighting a small percentage of Islamic extremists. They won't stand together under a common flag or uniform... Given the existing makeup of our military... how would you propose to eliminate them? You do think they should be eliminated right? It is kill or be killed with these people.. there is no negotiating or reasoning.. Perhaps you should spend less time trying to put a jersey on me and focus on trying to understand the bigger picture.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -HLM
we especially need colonization if we want to
survive.
there are many dangers we face by just being on
this planet. to name a few: asteroids, comets,
labile weather conditions, solar flares, etc.
if we spread to other planets, we create a much
higher bio-diversity than it can be achieved on
earth AND in case of a cataclysm mankind will
survive!
Meme of the day: I browse "Disable Sigs: Checked". So should you.
The US has not engaged in any acts of imperialism since before WW2. Before then, there were plenty of imperialist adventures.
Clearly you have no idea what imperialism is... The present war in Iraq, for example, is nothing more than imperialist action.
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
Actually, Chomsky is an authority on linguistics. Outside of this field, he lies about everything in an effort to promote fascism, or even anti-semitism.
;)
I find it funny how you guys always revert to the anti-Semite argument. Anyone critical of Isreal is out there to kill all Jews huh?
The USSR was socialist and fascist, as was Nazi Germany.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Fascism and socialism are distinct systems. They don't even get along.
Socialism (i.e fascism) on top of capitalism is no capitalism at all: if the elites control it all, how can their be economic freedom?
This statement pretty much solidies your lack of knowledge on this matter (since you equate socialism with fascism). In any case, to answer you question, you can practise fascism on top of capitalism because fascism deals with politics only--it does not go into economics. Socialism, on the other hand, deals with both politics and economics. Since capitalism is an economic system, you can't practice socialism with it (they have contradictory ideologies when it comes to economics). You can easily practice fascism with capitalism. Fascists and anyone belonging to their ideology, which is pretty much everyone since others are killed off, are free to do whatever they want on the economic side. Their freedoms are only limited in politics.
Nazi Germany, for example, was pretty much run by private entrepreneurs, and other private businesses. There was very little centralization of the economy. What WAS centralized was the political elements. So, if you spoke against the government, you could be jailed; but if you just happily ran your business without getting into politics, you were perfectly fine.
"Class war" only exists where it is promoted by bigots and other ignorant folk.
Really? They should give you a Nobel Prize for that discovery
To a much lesser degree than socialism.
Less than Stalinism, yes...
It did. For thousands of years. Any time you found merchants or traders who were able to trade for the actual value of things with little harassment by greedy government elites. It goes back to prehistory.
Only YOU must be following that definition of capitalism. Even capitalists themselves do not consider capitalism to have existed more than a few hundread years ago. You also seem to mix up trade and capitalism. Trade is not the same thing as capitalism--or did you not know that before?
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places