AOL to Launch Discount "Netscape" Internet Service

BigJimSlade writes "AOL is planning to launch a discounted internet service. The service will have less of the 'extras' that AOL users are used to, but will only cost $9.95 a month. In a move to cash-in on name recognition, AOL will be naming this service 'Netscape'."

Comments

Discount AOL?

[wo1verin3]

Busy signals? No problem, I'm not alone, there are 10 Million other people also waiting to log on.

Re:Discount AOL?

[grasshoppa]

Busy signals? No problem, I'm not alone, there are 10 Million other people also waiting to log on.

You know, I'd imagine that's a failed advertising slogan waiting to happen.

"Can't get online? Don't worry! You aren't alone!"

Re:Discount AOL?

[after]

Whats AOL ???

Re:Discount AOL?

[DevNova]

And it will connect to a service AOL will be naming "the Internet".

Re:Discount AOL?

[shokk]

I've discounted AOL every time I ever thought about what ISP to use.

Netscape

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm...Netzero taking some buisness aperently?

FP mofo.

Re:Netscape

[Neophytus]

AOL paid MS them millions then dumped the Mozilla project. I bet it will be one of them IE skins that nobody knows to uninstall. My isp installs one onto IE if you use their (unnecessary) software.

Re:Netscape

[15001500]

Yahoo is an internet service provider, and they have a customized web browser as well, so your customers might not actually be too far off.

Re:Netscape

[Anonymous Coward]

The UK has had Netscape Online for a few years now - basic no-frills dialup service though it did have its own CD you could pick up from the local shop for free though I had a sneaking suspicion they were going to close it down.

www.netscapeonline.co.uk

Re:Netscape

[bill_mcgonigle]

ship a Netscape-branded hack of Internet Explorer with the home page set to netscape.com

Seems likely - they're not going to spend much on R&D for the cut-rate service.

Imagine:
Me in 1996: One day Netscape will be nothing but a cut-rate version of AOL running Internet Explorer.
The rest of the Internet: HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH!

Yes, ladies and Gentlemen, the Browser Wars are over. Microsoft beats Netscape, 4 games to 2.
What were the anti-trust remedies again?

Re:Netscape

[_xeno_]

It's probably going to be an IE-based browser. Take a peak at www.netscape.com. Imagine you've never heard of Netscape before and try and figure out what Netscape is. It appears to be some kind of crappy portal like MSN or even Yahoo, which is what this service would probably center around.

But based on "the Netscape service would be a smaller download" I have to assume that it would be a Netscape-branded Internet Explorer that users would use. Just imagine... "Internet Explorer powered by Netscape" as the IE window title...

This is going to cause so many support headaches, no matter what they do. I really hope they name it something distinct, but I bet you the real thought was to tie it into Netscape the portal and not Netscape the browser.

This is almost causing headaches without thinking about it... "What browser do you use?" "Netscape." "Is that the browser Netscape, the Netscape homepage, or the Netscape service?" I really hope they change the name... so confusing...

Re:Netscape

[DrewCapu]

On a related note, to avoid confusion, the Netscape-branded Internet Explorer will be called, "Nozilla"

Re:Netscape

[DrXym]

Seeing as AOL sacked all the Netscape developers, my money would be on the service being some cut down AOL dialler with an AOL / Netscape branded version of IE.

I know it's sounds too perverse to be true, but AOL really does have its head up its arse that far. Even when they had their own open standards compliant and cross platform browser, arguably much better than IE, they still used IE in their products. I guess they really do like being firmly grasped by the balls by their largest competitor.

If that isn't the definition of short sighted fuck wittery I don't know what is.

Re:Netscape

[Phroggy]

Even when they had their own open standards compliant and cross platform browser, arguably much better than IE, they still used IE in their products.

Just in AOL for Windows I think - Compuserve, and AOL for Mac OS X, are currently Gecko-based.

Re:Netscape

[DrXym]

Yes they are, as is AOL communicator which was/is some kind of mail client. But I suspect you're looking at the grand sum of usage of Gecko in the whole of AOL, ever.

It would not surprise me if AOL for OS X suddenly flipped to the webcore component for its next release, not that it would gain anything from it. As for AOL communicator, I haven't used it so I can't say, but with no Netscape engineers I find it hard to believe AOL have any long terms for Gecko, Mozilla or Netscape anywhere.

Re:Netscape

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because Yahoo has a skined version of IE they distribute as "their" software. As long as they keep the IE version new enuf I guess they won't have any problems doing that

Re:Netscape

[Anonymous Coward]

They are advertising Netscape 7.0 at thier hompage. Are they realy still on-line?

Re:Netscape

[Lodragandraoidh]

I think this is a case of dinosaurs mating. When you go to the netscape.com link, an AOL add pops up in a seperate window.

Looks to me like Netscape and AOL are in bed together on this for brand recognition and revenue purposes...

Good move.

[grub]

Ma & Pa Kettle don't need 150Kb+ incoming for their P2P apps. They want to log in to the InterWeb and check their email for pics of their grandkids. If this doesn't get them loads of new users I'll be very suprised.

Re:Good move.

[TrippTDF]

It depends on how well they market it... I know a surprising number of people over 60 who pay their $20 a month to use email to look at their grandkids and not much else. It's really all that a lot of people can handle, or want to.

Now, if AOL can really, really make this look appealing and EASY, it might work. But a lot of those grannies had a hard enough time learning outlook, let alone trying to switch their service to save some money.

I just don't see it working... too little, too late.

Re:Good move.

[devphaeton]

Ma & Pa Kettle don't need 150Kb+ incoming for their P2P apps. They want to log in to the InterWeb and check their email for pics of their grandkids. If this doesn't get them loads of new users I'll be very suprised.

This is more true than you know. The ISP i work for lost hundreds of dialup customers to RoadRunner's hyped-up offerings. After the special trial price is over with, after the average (non-geek) user surfed themselves silly...

They're looking at $50-80/month for internet access they use once a week to check email with. I would say a majority of internet users can't justify the cost.

We're getting almost all our old customers back :o)

Re:Good move.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you be surprised? It's not as if there is a mass of people sitting on the fence waiting for AOL to start a discount service. Hell -- it's not even going to be called AOL from the looks of it, so why wouldn't the "loads of new users" already be with another discount provider?

Re:Good move.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "teh intarweb", please use correct terminology.

Re:Good move.

[gl4ss]

they were already getting ma & pa kettle.

in fact, wasn't that their problem? that once the ma & pa learn't enough they wanted to use some other more sophisticated service instead of the aol internet that came with their post.

there's already (in almost any western country) dozens of 'free dialup'(you pay whatever it costs to use the phone lines) providers around, so how are they going to compete with that? by not giving 'premium' services that are largely useless after you learn that internet isn't actually limited to aol?

Re:Good move.

[Anonymous Coward]

who the hell IS Ma & Pa Kettle anway, and why don't we educate this annoying couple?!?!

Re:Good move.

[hetairoi]

While you are correct that Ma & Pa don't need the bandwidth you are incorrect in thinking this will bring them new customers.

What this might do is fill a niche for users who are comfortable using 3rd party software and looking for a cheaper alternative to AOL.

In my experience (and I have been an aol customer for over 10 years, I have my reasons) the reason people like AOL is because of the ease of use. With earthlink et al you still need to configure a mail client and fiddle with a browser. You'd be surprised how many people out there cannot accomplish this simple task.

AOL comes already installed on many new machines which means you select a username and your ready to go. No configuration. You don't even have to open a browser (although you can if you want). I know many many people who use AOL simply because everything they want is right in front of them, which consists of email and news. AOL also makes it very simple to send pictures (yeah, I know most mail clients do, but AOL makes it super-duper simple, my Mom can even do it). These people pay for convenience and are happy to do so.

Now, back to that niche. AOL loses many customers after they have become more comfortable using computers and the internet. Many new customers have no idea what they are doing. But after a year or so they have learned how to install software and have learned how to find better news sites. These are the people that leave AOL for cheaper alternatives and are the same people this new service is likely targeted for. They still don't use the internet enough to go broadband, but have enough savy to install a mail client and configure it. If AOL can keep these people in the family for half the price they are still better off than losing them completly to netzero.

Re:Good move.

[ToadSprocket]

There are two reasons behind this that I see. The first one is to get new users, of course, which is a much smaller market than it has been in previous years, like you said.

But where this really comes into play is when existing AOL users call in wanting to cancel their membership. "Oh, you want to cancel? Well, can your new ISP do THIS??"

Re:Good move.

[subsolar2]

Sounds like the GNN "Global Network Navigator" service that they offered 7-8 years ago. That was supposed to be their internet only ISP arm ... don't know why it died other than possibly lack of interest on the customer side.

The one product that I really liked was NAVIpress ... a really decent WYSIWYG web browser that let you publish directly to your personal web site.

Re:Good move.

[ToadSprocket]

I also think that this is a good move on AOL's part. But I tend to think that the real benefit of this is in giving people switching away from the traditional AOL a new place to go instead of Juno. That is where AOL has been hurting the most recently.

The stock of Juno's parent company dropped 20% on this announcement.

Re:Good move.

[The Almighty Dave]

They were charactors is a series of movies. Ma Kettle was played by Marjorie Main, Pa Kettle was played by Percy Kilbride.

I am guessing that we don't educate them because they are dead.

Re:Good move.

[semiazas]

It's not about new customers, it's about keeping the ones they're hemoraging to the $10 a month isps. When you've got 2 million customers and lose a small percentage a month, that small percentage is still $4 million in lost profits. They'd rather lose $2 million. Chances are, if they skin the cat right, they'll even profit off the venture.

Re:Good move.

[Anonymous Coward]

But a lot of those grannies had a hard enough time learning outlook...

What?!? You think grannies use Outlook? Maybe Outlook Express, but I doubt many of them have Outlook installed...

Re:Good move.

[ncc74656]

But where this really comes into play is when existing AOL users call in wanting to cancel their membership. "Oh, you want to cancel? Well, can your new ISP do THIS??"

I got my grandfather switched away from AOHell last week. Once Mozilla was up and running (for both mail and browsing) on his computer with his new ISP account, he called AOHell to unsubscribe...they appear to have no page within their system for that purpose. I told him in advance that they'd likely throw all kinds of stuff at him to get him to stay, but that being insistent with them should work. Fifteen minutes later, he was unsubscribed.

(I'm a bit pissed that even the for-pay version of Netzero installs spyware (UCmore and Webhancer, IIRC) that hoses your system if you let AdAware remove it. At least it gave me the opportunity to see WinMe's system-rollback feature do its job. :-| Since the spyware components most likely only hook into IE, I suspect that the ongoing use of Mozilla will limit the damage it can do. I would've signed up with a no-name cut-rate ISP, but he wanted something with at least some name recognition that wasn't AOHell or MSN and that was the first thing we ran across. Also, I only found out about the spyware after he was already signed up.)

Re:Good move.

[WoTG]

Exactly. This makes them price competitive with the little guys. Plus, they'll probably let customers keep their email address, something that other companies will never be able to offer, for obvious reasons.

And lastly, since they already have all the dialup equipment that they'll ever need (I'm betting their dialup market has already peaked) there isn't a lot of capital investment required.

Re:Good move.

[Anonymous Coward]

they appear to have no page within their system for that purpose.

That would be because the service hasn't launched yet.

Re:Good move.

[AntiTuX]

I didn't work on netscape/mozilla for 3 years just to see them turn it into a dumbed-down brand of AOL's shitty ISP service.
This just pisses me off.

Re:Good move.

[Anonymous Coward]

he called AOHell to unsubscribe...they appear to have no page within their system for that purpose

Keyword: CANCEL

Like, duh.

Re:Good move.

[whereiswaldo]

As someone who regularly makes fun of AOL and their CD spamming, this is the best thing I've seen come out of their company in years. Good luck to them, and may their CD spamming someday come to an end.

Get on the Netscape

[_Splat]

Great, now we'll have even more clueless people who want to "Get on Netscape" while referring to connecting to the internet.

Re:Get on the Netscape

[pvt_medic]

well wont that be one for the tech support to have fun over. Just wait and microsoft will come out with a cheaper version with out all the features, which they will call Internet Explorer.

Aol's new business model

[TrippTDF]

Step 1: Create pointless product everyone can see right trough
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit!

Re:Aol's new business model

[ElleyKitten]

The broadboard add-on thingy is definately pointless, I can't believe anyone would actually sign up for that.

"Here, how about you pay us $15 a month and we'll let you use a crappy product that says "You've got mail!" in a really happy voice."

Cheap dialup is a good idea though, but I'm sad they want to call it Netscape. =(

~Elley

Less features?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean it can be uninstalled?

Cash in on name recognition?

[ERJ]

More like confuse the hell out of the average person...

Customer Support: Our web site supports IE4+ and Netscape 6+
Customer: You need a specific ISP?
Customer Support: Huh?

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[TrippTDF]

Customer: You need a specific ISP?

more like:

Customer: My Netscape can't download your server? Do I need more RAMs?

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[ibmman85]

yeah thats going to be fun "i use internet explorer on netscape" "what??" "I connect to netscape on internet explorer" I had a friend who called AOL for support since she couldn't get on one day and the person told her to call her ISP. The only possible response to that: 'wow'

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[MrPoopyPants]

Back in my undergrad days I lived in a house with 5 to 6 other people. We had a shared dial-up with all our computers hooked up.

One non-techie roommate would always ask "Is your netscape working?" when the connection was down.

He also asked if you need a Zip drive to download .zip files from the internet.

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[Uart]

Thanks to daily 5-hour phone shifts at school, I know it would go something like this: (and these are well-educated users)

Customer: My computer is busted
User Support: Okay, what's wrong with it?
Customer: I think I have a virus, but when I ran VirusScan(TM) it didn't come up with anything.
User Support: I don't think you have a virus.
Customer: But when I go online I get all those pop-up boxes, and my friend Janie -- her brother is a janitor at microsoft -- she says its got to be a virus...
User Support: I want to kill you...

Eh, well, thats how support calls usually go for me. If there is ever a time when it is on-topic, I've got some solid stories.

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[mrtroy]

dont tease non-computer literate people.

they get brainwashed by the media whores like netscape/aol and especially microsoft. ask the average person what .net is, then try to explain to them what it really means, which is often even more confusing.

anyways, my roommates only know the word "router" when it comes to networking, and our network works fine with a router-hub combo, and much cheaper.

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[4of12]

Ironic.

Netscape's name gets used in some weird marketing ploy that probably has very little to do with the Netscape browser.

Serves `em right after pushing Javascript that had nothing to do with Java....

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

Post your stories here: http://www.techcomedy.com/ I never get tired of reading new tech support horror stories.

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[kavau]

More like:

Support: Our web site supports IE4+ and Netscape 6+
Customer: What, you don't support AOL?
Support: Yes we do, as long as you're using IE4+ or Netscape 6+.
Customer: But I'm using AOL...

Re:Cash in on name recognition?

[MrPoopyPants]

Oh, we had MANY reasons for teasing this poor fellow. His smell, his lack of success with women, his X-files obsession, his ever-increasing mass (fueled by a diet of mashed potatoes and mac and cheese), his bathroom habits, his bad driving (he ran over our back porch!!!!).... well, I could go on. We called him "The Baron von Dorkenstein" or just The Baron. His complete lack of understanding of anything involving technology was just the icing on the cake. He was convinced that the oil companies were covering up a water-powered car...

But...

[etymxris]

I thought the Mozilla foundation now owns the "Netscape" trademark. Am I wrong?

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

yes

Re:But...

[1010011010]

I'm wondering if the browser includedd in the "Netscape" client software will be "Internet Explorer." That would be a tragedy.

Re:But...

[danielsfca2]

> If...the "Netscape" client software will be "Internet Explorer." That would be a tragedy.

No, that would be irony.

Re:But...

[Carme]

That's exactly what will happen. The AOL client currently uses the IE rendering engine, so there's absolutely no reason to think that this new service won't.

Re:But...

[el-spectre]

Since no one will give you a decent answer...

Mozilla was a project under the Netscape umbrella, but it was recently set up as a separate non-profit entity (with a healthy coupla million from netscape/AOL). The current version of Netscape is based on the Mozilla browser, with a buncha AOL specific branding and some minor features stripped out (like pop-up blocking, I believe).

They share the same render engine, Gecko.

Re:But...

[Ed Avis]

Well they were going to call the new service 'SCO', but...

Re:But...

[btox]

There won't be client software the same way there is with AOL. There will be a very small piece of software and it will use the user's current browser.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Like the good advice that you just can't take?

Re:But...

[Anthracks]

I think that the question is whether the Mozilla foundation owns the rights to the name "Netscape", which I couldn't find an easy answer to. The Mozilla Foundation's first press release does contain this tidbit, however (emphasis added):

To help launch the new organization, America Online has pledged $2 million in cash to the Mozilla Foundation over the next two years. AOL will also contribute additional resources through equipment, domain names and trademarks, and related intellectual property, as well as providing some transitional assistance for key personnel as they move into the new organization.

That suggests they own some trademarks, but it may be limited to Mozilla and not extend to Netscape. I'm curious about the details of the deal as well.

Re:But...

[RocketSHE]

Netscape 7.1 has popup blocking. Works fine.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that's all really interesting, but you still didn't answer his question.

Re:But...

[ShavenYak]

Or rain on your wedding day. Of course, the most ironic thing about Alanis's song "Ironic" is that none of the situations she describes are actually examples of irony.

Re:But...

[techstar25]

if there is no client software, then technically it could be easily configured to work with Linux and Mac or whatever else. If you need cheap dial-up access for Linux box this sounds like a good choice.

Re:But...

[stefanlasiewski]

I remember when AOL bought Netscape, they bought it mostly for the value of the Netscape.com portal; and didn't care about the browser too much.

The netscape.com portal still has some value, even if it has lost value over the last number of years.

When they split off the Netscape browser project, they probably reserved the right to keep using 'Netscape' in reference to their own online content...

Re:But...

[el-spectre]

Impressively, you added less value than I to the conversation...

Re:But...

[Echnin]

Irony = self-contradictory or unexpected. Thus a "Netscape" service running Internet Explorer would be ironic.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to take the bait...

Ass.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe that was her intention, you jerk-off.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah, the only "value" that netscape.com has is the fact that it appeared everytime someone launched the Netscape browser. Nobody ever surfed over to Netscape.com by choice.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a fucking moron. Answer the fucking question next time. God, people like you are annoying.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

You should use MSN Explorer and subscribe to MSN, you GNU hippies.

Re:But...

[danielsfca2]

Perhaps, but I doubt it won't have a proprietary PPP client.

However, if this could be cracked like NetZero's old client was ages ago (the hack involved encoding the username and password a certain way and using standard PPP; I'm pretty sure it doesn't work anymore), it would make for an excellent solution, assuming your area didn't have a reputation of having its AOL POPs overloaded (leading to busy signals). Since your average geek has his own domain and knows how to operate a web browser, you don't need A. ISP e-mail, B. webspace, and C. proprietary content a la AOL or MSN. Therefore, a so-called "stripped down" ISP is all you need.

In my experience, while AOL's pushy salespeople who try to convince you not to cancel the service when you explicitly call to cancel was the only part that caused me aggravation. The few times I used AOL over dial-up, I had no issues with busy signals. I'm sure many do have problems with this, and I assume it varies from market to market.

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Eat me.

How far will it fall?

[PhilippeT]

O poor Netscape...

Well, duh

[nuwayser]

it's not like they'd call it "Time Warner Netscape"

right?

What about the phone costs?

[eaddict]

Until the telcos get involved, using the phone to connect to the net is still very expensive. My DSL is finally going DOWN due to the telco (SW Bell) lowering the cost of the line BUT the service itself through a 3rd party ISP is staying the same. When AOL/MSN/whoever gets into the phone co business THEN we will see a REAL reduction is price and not just a loss of functionality to allow for a lower price.

Re:What about the phone costs?

[CycleMan]

When Grandma wants the Internet for just her stock quotes and a few eMails, she doesn't need unlimited hours. It worked for CompuServe and Prodigy for years - why shouldn't it work for a niche market now?

Re:What about the phone costs?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true, but there's no guarantee that Grandma, on top of her stock quotes and stuff, isn't going to want to download a DivX or an ISO, or some MP3s.

AOL:Netscape::

[M-2]

pimp:whore.

That's all this is now. Netscape as we knew it is dead.

(I remember supporting 1.1 and 1.2, and the training to support 2.0, with these new advances, Java and Javascript... all those things are lost, like tears in the rain.)

Re:AOL:Netscape::

[nospmiS remoH]

The story of two schoolmates, Netscape and IE. Netscape and IE grew up together, but all through school Netscape was smarter faster and generally well liked. IE was awkward and most people found him annoying. As they got older, however, IE's rich uncle decided he would do all he could to get IE to be more popular. To to this, IE's uncle spent millions on an all out campaign re-writing all the books in school and paying off all the teachers in order to make IE look smarter and in turn more popular. Sure, most people didn't like him all that much, but Netscape seemed to be having troubles with all the new books and really didn't shine quite as much. Netscape began to fall out of popularity.

Then, Netscapes rich uncle, AOL, stepped in to save the day. AOL took Netscape away from school for a while and gave him a new look. Plastic surgery, new cloths full of gadgets bright lights, big buttons, bells, wistles, and a big shiny 6.0 carat diamond earring. After this, Netscape came back to school with a bang. People said, "Ooh, check out Netscape, maybe he is still cool." However, once people started hanging out with Netscape and his new 6.0 carat diamond earring, they realized he was largely all show. On top of that, he was often confusing and it was annoying when he would bring out all his new gadgets at parties. People were once again turned off to Netscape, and since IE was the only other person at school that seemed to know how to get what he wanted from the teachers they decided he was cool enough to be the most popular kid in school. Sure, deep down no body really liked him but that really didn't matter.

Alas, Netscape moved away and soon most people forgot he even existed. Some time later, AOL and IE's rich uncle Bill became friends. AOL decided that IE really was a pretty cool kid. AOL decided that IE was so cool in fact, AOL gave his uncle Bill money to put IE through college. Then, one day, AOL ran into Netscape on the street. They got to talking and AOL said, "You know, you were a really good kid and a lot of people respected you." Netscape responded, "Thanks. Do you think you could help me get back on top?" AOL thought a minute and then said, "You might be onto something." AOL then proceeded to beat the crap out of Netscape and steal his cloths, money, and his entire identity leaving Netscape bleeding and crying, naked in the street. AOL returned home and gave all of Netscape's things to IE and told IE, "Now you can still be yourself but also you can get even further fame by pretending to be Netscape." IE got an evil grin on his face and realized that, with Netscape truley gone and with everyone thinking he was both IE and Netscape, he would no longer have to strive for anything. He could sit on his ass and annoy the hell out of everone and they would like it because they had no one else to turn to.

Bells + Whistles = Bad

[Doesn't_Comment_Code]

This marks the first time I have EVER considered AOL as a potential ISP. When all you want is a basic connection, AOL used to be the absolute worst way to go. This new option may be more suitable to advanced users.

Re:Bells + Whistles = Bad

[grasshoppa]

This marks the first time I have EVER considered AOL as a potential ISP.

Feel free to go stick your head in the oven, it amounts to the same thing.

When all you want is a basic connection, AOL used to be the absolute worst way to go. This new option may be more suitable to advanced users.

I've got 5 bucks that say AOL still messes this up. Seriously, an advanced users would shutter at the thought of using aol-anything. Hell, MY MOTHER shutters at the thought, and we are talking about a woman who uses a 6 year old mac with a 28.8k dialup.

Re:Bells + Whistles = Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

MY MOTHER shutters at the thought, and we are talking about a woman who uses a 6 year old mac with a 28.8k dialup.

Cause she knows that 6 year old Mac is a POS and the bloat that has become Netscape won't even run on it.

Re:Bells + Whistles = Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

"MY MOTHER shutters at the thought, and we are talking about a woman who uses a 6 year old mac with a 28.8k dialup."

This sounds like a clear case of elder abuse. You must be a terrorist.

Re:Bells + Whistles = Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Your momma shudder cause I rocked her world.

Re:Bells + Whistles = Bad

[grasshoppa]

This sounds like a clear case of elder abuse. You must be a terrorist.

Tell you what, *you* try replacing her mac. I'll go pick out your coffin for you.

Re:Bells + Whistles = Bad

[acidrain69]

And the fact that they don't have enough inbound lines doesn't count for anything?

I don't care about the bells & whistles. My mother has AOL, and when I am at her house, I can minimize the shitty AOL environment and just use IE. Normal net apps work fine.

Oh great, more confusion....

[King_TJ]

Let's take the name of a well-known web browser and name our Internet service after it!

(Great... Now people will assume they've already got an ISP because they see a "Netscape" icon on their desktop.)

That's about as stupid as Microsoft renaming MSN to "Internet Explorer" - for the sake of "brand recognition".

Re:Oh great, more confusion....

[Anonymous Coward]

That's about as stupid as Microsoft renaming MSN to "Internet Explorer" - for the sake of "brand recognition".

don't give them any ideas.

crap they already did this MSN Explorer.

Re:Oh great, more confusion....

[brainthought]

King TJ said: "Great... Now people will assume they've already got an ISP because they see a "Netscape" icon on their desktop."

What newbie out there has Netscape installed and would think such a thing? I mean come on, it's 2003. Netscape hasn't came with anything in the Mac/Windows world in years, and if they do have it installed, then they downloaded it... ergo...

Re:Oh great, more confusion....

[ratamacue]

That's about as stupid as Microsoft renaming MSN to "Internet Explorer" - for the sake of "brand recognition".

I know more than a few users who actually don't know the difference between the web browser and the ISP. Hell, some people don't even know what a web browser is. To them it's simply "the internet".

Re:Oh great, more confusion....

[stefanlasiewski]

Let's take the name of a well-known web browser and name our Internet service after it!

Netscape is already an Internet service. Netscape has also been a web portal for 6 years or more (before AOL bought it). I rarely use it, but apparently it's pretty popular in some circles.

Re:Oh great, more confusion....

[snilloc]

A netscape account is sort of like a MS Passport in some respects. I get an AIM screen name, matching email ("screen name"@netscape.net), and I use the calendar function (with email reminders for birthdays, etc.) some. There's also a "my netscape" portal page that is customizable, but it rather sucks.

"smaller software download"?

[proj_2501]

Why does AOL STILL require custom software when all necessary parts of a PPP connection come with any system? Connecting to AOL and getting all the content I can understand, but ...

oh who cares, i'm tried of ranting.

Re:"smaller software download"?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why does AOL STILL require custom software when all necessary parts of a PPP connection come with any system?"

The software protects your computer from:

Bears

UFOs

Evil InterWeb Pixies

Not being advertised at

Re:"smaller software download"?

[TheCrazyFinn]

Because AOL software is actually a VPN Application that connects to AOL's internal network.

YOu aren't directly connected to the 'Net when on AOL.

Re:"smaller software download"?

[dogbowl]

Is that really the case?

How am I able to PCAnywhere into my Uncle's machine? He uses AOL and I can connect straight to his IP address without any problems.

Re:"smaller software download"?

[TheCrazyFinn]

You are connecting via the AOL Network. YOu still get a viable IP on a network connected to the Net, but you do not have a direct connection, since you are connected via a tunnel to AOL's Network (AOL hasn't owned it's own Dial gear since it sold ANS to UUNET in the mid-90's)

Re:"smaller software download"?

[baka_boy]

This is a pretty weird definition of "on the net". When I use my cable modem at home, I'm "tunneling" through the neighborhood cable infrastructure, into Comcast's network, then out through a backbone connection to the net. Or, if I'm at one of the free wireless nodes downtown, I'm "tunneling" through the wireless network, into some wired LAN, and finally onto a DSL or T1 connection to an ISP.

The whole point of TCP/IP is that it doesn't matter what kind of network you're connected through, so long as it implements the protocol correctly. See previous /. articles about TCP/IP using bongos -- it may be one of the slowest endpoints ever, but slap those drummers on a routable IP, and they're suddenly full-fledged Internet nodes.

Re:"smaller software download"?

[spauldo]

DISCLAIMER: the only thing I know about AOL is how much of a pain it is to work on a system with it installed. All that follows is from what I've gathered from the text and my networking experience.

I belive what he means is, rather than being connected directly to an internet-connected company (i.e. dial up to an ISP's server, which is connected straight to the internet), AOL's software creates a VPN through the ISP's network to their network. To access the internet, rather than go straight through the local ISP's network and out, you go through the VPN, through AOL's system, and out to the 'net.

The only real reason I can think of doing it this way is for the transision from running their own dial-up servers to using dial-up from another company. Made sense during the transision phase, I'd imagine - after all, they used to be kind of like the old compuserve network - no internet access at all.

You're right, you're still connecting to the internet, but it's like being forced through a proxy rather than go straight to the servers.

Re:"smaller software download"?

[TheCrazyFinn]

That is correct. The reason they still do this is because the AOL Network is still to a great extent a private network connected to the 'Net via proxies. The private net has all of their extra content on it, and you are well firewalled off from the public net (Unlike most ISP's).

The silly thing is that everything tunnels to Virginia, even if you dial in from Australia. So overseas users get screwed performance-wise.

And in case you're wondering, I happen to be an AOL Technical Specialist for MCI, I support some of AOL's dial gear up here in Canada. So I'm intimately familiar with how it works.

Re:"smaller software download"?

[TheCrazyFinn]

I take it that you are unfamiliar with how a VPN Functions.

A VPN creates a virtual tunnel over TCP/IP (Usually UDP) that emulates a private link between two nodes on the public internet. This link is normally (but not necessarily) encrypted. It looks like a direct link, but in fact traverses the net like any other traffic, encapsulated in another packet.

AOL's software creates a VPN Tunnel between the User and AOL's servers in Virginia. Thus you are effectively on a private network.

When you connect to an AOL users IP, you go via the AOL Network and the VPN tunnel.

They've already tried this in the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

America Online ran a Netscape-branded ISP in the UK from 1999 to 2002. It was called Netscape Online, and the CD did actually come with Netscape Communicator. The ISP was subscription-free with users only to paying for the dial-up phone calls (this 'pay as you go' model of Internet access was popular in the UK at the time).

They shut it a little over a year ago and offered to 'upgrade' all subscribers to AOL. By this time, the pay as you go model was rather outdated, with flat-rate services and broadband becoming more popular.

Netscape Online launches: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_company_fi le/428621.stm

Netscape Online closes: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24532 .html

This is a true sign of the Apocalypse

[Argyle]

"lo be the day when trusted men are bent to evil ways..."

Netscape and naming issues

[kevin_conaway]

Is it me or do the folks at Netscape (now at AOL) have a problem trying to sell or get people to use an abysmal product (JavaScript) by naming it after something successful just to help people put two and two together? It annoys tech folks and confuses the hell out of normal folks.

The important question is...

[Now15]

...will it be bundled with the Netscape web browser?

If "AO-helL" wasn't scraping the bottom of

[Dareth]

...the barrel... I am sure this "Netscrape" service will be.

Where is the customer base for this service going to come from? Existing AOL clients, or the people who won't pay $20+ a month for internet?

They might do okay if they picked up some local access numbers for some heavily populated, but yet still rural areas. I remember when Netscape was the bigger better brother to Mosaic...

But hey, they own the name... they can use it. Wonder if their default supported browser will still be IE??

Re:If "AO-helL" wasn't scraping the bottom of

[billstr78]

Scrape on. The more people that turn onto the Internet, the better. As public awareness raises, more Internet-centric technologies are going to be accepted by the public.

Who cares if Netscape Online users are a bunch of hicks from the swamplands of the deep south? Today: hicks of the US, tomorrow: villagers from every corner of the world! Ok that's streatching things a bit, but we will get there eventually.

I do, however agree that they are whoring out the Netscape name once associated with browser superiority. They should have just succumed to popular ignorance and called it InterWeb-Online.

Besides, even if the Internet gene pool has degraded severly in the last 10 years, at least there will be (relativly) little unkown places on the web like /.

Re:If "AO-helL" wasn't scraping the bottom of

[ibmman85]

i remember mosiac.. yum.. 9600 baud..

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see more of this in general, actually. There are too many nickle 'n dime operations out there (heh, like my bank as of late) so I think budget products and services will really be useful.

I'm not hip on AOL, but anything that keeps 'net activity up for an affordable price is a good thing IMHO. It may keep annoying people around (e.g. lame newsgroup posts) but it can help commerce.

Now People can use...

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera to browse Netscape.

Sad day...

[akozakie]

Man, it's sad, seeing Netscape as a name of a cheap alternative to AOL... Somehow it just feels inappropriate.

maybe not

[_avs_007]

I'm guessing it still uses AOL's proprietary dial up stuff, instead of standard dial-up networking.

This was the main reason I used a mom-n'-pop ISP before I had broadband...

Name recognition, huh?

[Sean80]

So they're after name recoginition? I can't think of a worse idea than using Netscape.

Big, bloated, falls over all the time. Where do I sign up?

Re:Name recognition, huh?

[DuncMan]

Netscape 7.10 is a wonderful web browser and stable as hell in my experience. I don't see it as bloated, though as a web developer I find the DOM Inspector and JavaScript Console to be invaluable tools.

Apropos all this, how dare AOL use Netscape as a pawn in it's negotiations with Microsoft, callously discard it, then disrespect it's memory with this branding abomination.

Re:Name recognition, huh?

[billstr78]

Big, bloated, falls over all the time. Where do I sign up?

That's the way technology aware people think of it, but thier using Mozilla with Verizon DSL service anyway. People who don't know what code bloat is remember Netscape as the gateway to the Internet. Thier passport to the world-wide-web. It still has a cool factor with the mainstream public.

Prof Farsworth said it best...

[K_J_Raine]

Good news, everyone. Several years ago I tried to log onto AOL, and it just went through.

Fun things to do with THESE cds...

[mrtroy]

This could be just the boost that No More AOL CDs needs...

Come on guys, they are 1/4 of the way to a million AOL cds...send the new ones you have in with the old ones collecting dust in your closet!

Any other fun things to do with AOL CDs?

Re:Fun things to do with THESE cds...

[bhtooefr]

They take CompuServe and WalMart Connect CDs, too (they don't say anything about the WalMart CDs, but they take all CDs from AOL-owned ISPs).

casting a wider net

[anomalous cohort]

It looks like they are entering into the regular ISP business. Perhaps they are spreading a wider net to target more savvy users. That would explain the branding. Most /. readers probably won't be caught dead with an email address like john@aol.com but john@netscape.com sounds cool.

Hmmm, business development idea for slashdot. john@slashdot.org? Think about it.

morons launch discount planet/population rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

just kidding. the cost of the creator's newclear power plan is included with every good intention/behaviour exhibited.

for each of the creator's innocents harmed, there is a badtoll that must/will be repaid by you/US, as the perpetrators of the corepirate nazi georgewellian fuddite southern baptist freemason life0cide against humankind, will not be available to make reparations.

you know where to look/who to trust?

AOL and naming.

[FreeLinux]

Make of it what you will but, lately there has been a big push to get away from the AOL moniker. In the past few days Time Warner has dropped the AOL name and is changing its stock symbol from AOL.

Now AOL is announcing new services but they too are avoiding the AOL name. What's next? Rename AOL to AISP or The Internet?

Re:AOL and naming.

[weszz]

Seeing as most people I talk to (tech support for lower end users) believe that AOL IS the internet, I can see them renaming to The Internet, or something very similar to confuse people even more.

Most of these people get confused if you tell them to open internet explorer, let alone talk about something like netscape.

AOL is a scorn for all of the internet, and now their name is even for themselves.

The end is near.

"Less features" for AOL means...

[leftie]

They have taken away internet access and they just show you all the AOL advertising

Re:"Less features" for AOL means...

[ShadeARG]

The advertising is the service, you insensitive clod!

Re:"Less features" for AOL means...

[Psychotic_Wrath]

I cant imagine aol any worse than it allready is I bet a screenshot of it would be worse than goatse

GNN

[Anonymous Coward]

this sounds just like the GNN ISP service from the late 90's that AOL eventually bought out.

Re:GNN

[grahamkg]

Bought out, improved, fielded, and quickly crushed. The service was $14.95/month for unlimited service at a time when AOL itself was going to go unlimited at $19.95/month. They launched service in October 1995 and shut it down in November 1996.

Maybe this is how they'll finally destroy Netscape. AOL has done it to most everything else they've bought, so why break their record, eh?

Name rec?

[gordgekko]

In a move to cash-in on name recognition, AOL will be naming this service 'Netscape'

I would think at this point more people, especially the newbies, would be aware of AOL then Netscape. AOL is the one with the constant stream of television commercials and coaster CDs.

Re:Name rec?

[billstr78]

Yes, but advertising adverse people hear the name AOL and instantly think: Ahhh.. not another CD in the mail. AOL knows they have recived a bad rap in the last number of years and are simply putting a new markeing spin on a dead horse.

Will the AOL problems follow?

[overbyj]

You can call Netscape, but as long as it is associated with AOL, it will be a spam magnet. In my experience, the only worse than AOL and their spam problems is Hotmail run by you know who.

With this service, it will now only cost you $9.95/month to have an inbox filled with 200 spam messages instead of the normal $24.95/month. Way to go AOL for lowering the price of receiving spam!

If they wanted name recognition

[happyfrogcow]

Why didn't they just call it "AOL.Lite" or something lame. Using the same name for different "applications" in the same industry is just awefull. They already had the AOL name recognition, they should have stuck with it.

The big question is, What will happen to Netscape the browser? Imminant death? A renaming to something which loses name recognition and the remaining 1% share of market share?

Re:If they wanted name recognition

[Anonymous Coward]

they should have named it, dunno, Coke, britney spears, pamela anderson...

Smart move

[GeorgeK]

This sounds like a smart move, to segment their markets, and thereby avoid losing business to some of the low-priced alternatives. Assuming they don't cannibalize their higher margin customers, it should be a net positive.

I think AOL might want to come out with a version that boots directly from a CD, and doesn't rely on Windows, etc. This would be a nice turnkey system for those who are not very familiar with PCs. Using technology from Knoppix, I bet they could squeeze in everything into a bootable CD.

Re:Smart move

[Anonymous Coward]

Say what? How can AOL avoid losing business AND not cannibalize their higher margin customers? You can not lose something you don't have, unless you subscribe to the AOL business method where you can make gains on something you don't have/never existed. And as to a CD-based system -- what good is that? A person unfamiliar with PCs can use it? So they have an internet appliance worth several hundreds of dollars? Talk about training wheels!

dont think i'd go for that

[ibmman85]

hmm same price as juno.. i have 3.5/768 cable at home and OC3 here (RIT) but we're still paying the monthly rate for juno since i still use that email address as my main account and just in case we have another huge blackout ive got juno on my laptop.. to *gasp* dial up with if i need to. i dont think i'll switch to this 'netscape' service since theres no reason to really lol though its the same price as the juno/netzero packages

we might call it noescape

[Anonymous Coward]

when the big flash occurs, there'll be no going back, & no where to hide.

Spam

[Anonymous Coward]

" The service will have less of the 'extras' that AOL users are used to

Does this mean they will be keeping their spam as well?

"Netscape"...

[devphaeton]

...will now be seen in the eyes of the unwashed masses as "low-budget" or "second-best".

OTSN: What exactly has taken place for Microsoft to say "IE Wins The Browser War!"?

This is a GOOD thing

[rot26]

This is excellent from the point of name recognition. None of us will care about Netscape as an ISP, or as a division of AOL, or whatever. But if there are TV ads throwing the name out there, it can't help but promote Netscape THE BROWSER, and (albeit to a much lesser extent) Mozilla. I don't really care that it's Mozilla even. Make it Opera. Whatever. Just SOMETHING to make people realize that there is something other than godddam IE out there.

Re:This is a GOOD thing

[Carme]

You're making a connection that isn't there. AOL squandered Mozilla, they never stopped using Internet Explorer. This new Netscape service will no doubt be powered by Internet Explorer. Ironic, but I guarantee it.

Re:This is a GOOD thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats aload of crap and you know it, go to the portal site netscape.com and you see no links for IE, only links to download Netscape 7+

Re:This is a GOOD thing

[Anonymous Coward]

AOL setup installs IE as the browser. Do you not understand that? What difference does it make to the average AOL user -who isn't going to tinker with settings let alone switch browsers- that there's no link to download IE? They are already using it in all likelyhood.

I have been retroactively stigmatized!

[dspfreak]

This is just great. Now when somebody asks me "have you ever used Netscape?" I have to explain myself. "Yes, but back in like 1995 when it was a cool alternative to Mosaic. Not that crappy cheap sub-AOL thing."

Name Recognition?

[Anonymous Coward]

If that were the goal, wouldn't they want to name this service "Internet Explorer" instead?

Paul Harvey Beats Slashdot

[doppleganger871]

I heard this on the Paul Harvey news just after Noon EDT. Sheesh, /. gettin' slower every day, we all know Paul's not a fast-on-his-feet kinda guy.

Re:Paul Harvey Beats Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

And now you know... the rest of the story.

does anyone remember

[GoatPigSheep]

When you asked an unknowlagable computer user which ISP they used, and their answer was 'Netscape', well now they can actually say it and be right!

ONLY $9.95 per month?

[W2k]

I can't believe you americans still put up with shit like this. Here in Sweden, it has been possible for ages to get dial-up Internet from our largest ISP for only slightly more than $3/month - and that includes five POP3 accounts (with optional webmail access), 50 megs of webspace (accessible via FTP) and free telephone support.

A dial-up without the extra features (just the web, baby) costs nothing per month, and per-minute charges are less than $2 per hour during peak hours (less than $1 off-peak).

Most importantly, we don't have any ISP's that require their customers to run special bugware (read "AOL Software" - and I'm blatantly assuming here that it's a required install, feel free to correct me). You lot obviously need to let your ISP's know what exactly constitutes acceptable pricing for stuff like "simple" Internet access :)

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[javatips]

How is 3$/month + 1$ to 2$ / hours cost less than 9.95$ / month?

You seem to forgot that in North America, there is no per-minute charges for local calls.

Surfing more than 6 hours (off-peak) will cost more in Sweden than in the US. I'm pretty sure that monthly average of these internet users will surf more than 6 hours a month.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is because Sweden is a communist country. You think all those taxes you pay -just- go to healthcare & welfare? No! They pay for cheap internet.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[cybermace5]

Umm, is that with unmetered calls? Here in the U.S. we don't have per-minute charges. Five hours of web per week under your plan, and you're already over $40. Sounds like a rotten deal to me.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[guacamolefoo]

A dial-up without the extra features (just the web, baby) costs nothing per month, and per-minute charges are less than $2 per hour during peak hours (less than $1 off-peak).

I don't have any per minute charges for land-line telephone service, and a POTS line is about $20 for residential use. Let's see:

US:
$10 for ISP
$20 for POTS
------------
$30.00

Sweden:
$3 for ISP
$30 for 20 hours of on-line time per month (half at $1/hour, half at $2/hour = $1.50 average * 20 = $30)

Total: $33.00.

w00t! Sweden is soooo much more elite than the US. Blah, blah, blah, George Bush, blah, blah, blah, pickeled herring, blah, blah, blah.

GF.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Otter]

...and per-minute charges are less than $2 per hour during peak hours (less than $1 off-peak)...

This is where it becomes clear you're comparing apples and oranges. Per-minute charges? US dial-up customers are paying typically $9-12/month for unlimited usage with local numbers and usually have flat-rate phone service. You're just handing over your money in a somewhat different way, or did you think free ISP service was a moneymaker by itself?

AOL charges more because of its extensive proprietary content and the network effect of its huge user base.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[AvantLegion]

That's not what he said.

Read it again.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe you americans still put up with shit like this. Here in Sweden...

[...]

per-minute charges are less than $2 per hour during peak hours (less than $1 off-peak).

I can't believe that you Swedes still put up with shit like this. Here in the US, almost nobody pays per minute connection fees for landline telephone service.

You lot obviously need to let your ISP's know what exactly constitutes acceptable pricing for stuff like "simple" Internet access :)

You lot obviously need to let your telcos know what exactly constitutes acceptable pricing for stuff like "simple" local calls :)

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

True. But swedish broadband usually costs ~$30-35 a month for unlimited .5-2 Mbit access.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not what he said.

Read it again.

You're right. I think what he said is that he's a little commie faggot from a pussy country that rolled over to keep the Nazis happy while his grandmother gave handjobs to the Wehrmacht so she could earn enough money to buy her drunk husband cheap liquor made from herring shit.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

I pay about $40/mo for similar DSL service. Big whoop. I can afford it because I'm a rich american imperialist, living off of the fat of third world children.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhhh... you get charged per hour? Give me $9.95 unlimited access over your "$3.00" access anyday.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[CyberVenom]

Here in the U.S., ISP and phone charges work a little differently. Phone companies usually charge a fixed monthly rate (usually about $20) for local service (unlimited calls within the local switching network), and large ISPs like AOL set up an access number in each (well, almost) switching network. Thus internet acces is a local call which is covered under the fixed monthly phone bill. Because of this, ISPs here do not receive income from the phone call itself, but rather charge a monthly fee. The difference between your "free" basic internet and our $9.95 is that you pay your phone company for your internet by the minute, we pay the ISP directly by the month. Personally, I think the pricing may even be a bit cheaper here. If you can get a month of continuous use for $9.95 (well, you also gotta pay $20 for the phone), how does that compare to your european phone bill for using the phone constantly for a month? Then again, I have DSL, so what would I know? ;)

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

Swedish women are filthy whores. And yes, that includes your mother.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[W2k]

*cough*

Okay, so I forgot to include the fact that your AOL's $10/month is actually flatrate, no per-minute charges, making it cheaper than our $3/mo + $1-2/hr for anyone who uses the Internet more than only very little (<6 hrs per month, was it?)

I apologize for my mistake. Good thing I have lots of karma points to burn.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe you americans still put up with shit like this. Here in Sweden, it has been possible for ages to get dial-up Internet from our largest ISP for only slightly more than $3/month - and that includes five POP3 accounts (with optional webmail access), 50 megs of webspace (accessible via FTP) and free telephone support.

Bork bork bork, borgy borgy bork bork.

A dial-up without the extra features (just the web, baby) costs nothing per month, and per-minute charges are less than $2 per hour during peak hours (less than $1 off-peak).

Borgy borgy bork bork borgy bork bork.

Most importantly, we don't have any ISP's that require their customers to run special bugware (read "AOL Software" - and I'm blatantly assuming here that it's a required install, feel free to correct me). You lot obviously need to let your ISP's know what exactly constitutes acceptable pricing for stuff like "simple" Internet access :)

Bork, bork, borgy borgy bork bork :)

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

*cough*

Did I mention that your mother is a filthy whore?

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right bitch, grovel at the feet of America. You know you like it. Now go back on strike and collect some "free" health care.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bork bork bork, borgy borgy bork bork.

Bad Grammar:

Bork bork bork, borgy borky bork bork.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[softspokenrevolution]

To be perfectly fair US telecos are heavily subsidized (or at least were at some point) by the US Government, on top of that I'd imagine that with the raging population differences between teh two countries there is more a profit in bulk rates (for flate fees) in the US then there would be in Sweden.

On a side note, it's nice to see that racism, xenophobia, and blind chest thumping nationalism are alive an well on the slashdot forums.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[michaelhood]

And, we Americans, can't believe that the Swedes put up with per-minute telephone service.
I pay $20 per month for unlimited telephone access.
Then I pick up an ISP for $7.95 per month.

$27.95/mo = unlimited local telephone service and internet access.
Do the math.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

softspokenrevolution

i.e. a giant fucking cream pie pussy

On a side note, it's nice to see that racism,

Are you some kind of fucking nigger....

xenophobia,

...from a third-world shithole?

and blind chest thumping nationalism

Kneel before the mighty United States of America. We have come to rape all your women and castrate your men. Don't ask what we do to your kiddies. Just remember that we can do whatever we want to you and you can't do a fucking thing about it except to strap on a grenade and throw yourself at a soldier.

are alive an well on the slashdot forums.

You're welcome.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, you are assuming there's no monthly fee for POTS service in Sweden (and I don't think that's true).

Second, most American households use POTS for basic voice service and do not get a second line for Internet use. That's probably not true in Sweden where mobile phones are much more popular.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's nice to see that the third world (including Sweden) still looks like this. Of course, it's easier to see the flies on Swedish kids because Swedes are white.

Re:ONLY $9.95 per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excactly the point. Market economy leads to similar prices for similar products. Not a big surprise is it? The only lame thing is paying extra for using AOL services.

jwz

[Knights who say 'INT]

Ouch. This is bound to hurt jwz's feelings. No sarcasm intended. The message on his website when he resigned from Netscape is one of the saddest things I've ever read.

just let it die with dignety!!!

[the_2nd_coming]

please AOL, stop this....just let netscape die so we can remember it as a good company who helped start the internet revolution.

Re:just let it die with dignety!!!

[IM6100]

Actually, Netscape was the company who tried to 0wn the Internet. They introduced as many, if not more, proprietary extensions to HTML as any other entity. They wanted everybody using a Netscape client for free and every server needing to be an expensive Netscape Server.

From the start, when they stole the Mosaic developer team from UIUC, they were a bunch of venture capital swindlers.

Re:just let it die with dignety!!!

[the_2nd_coming]

yeah what ever.

whither jwz?

[spoonyfork]

I was a lieutenant in the Microsoft Army during the browser wars. Rumor has it I was next in line to be one of those little office assistant thingies. We kicked Netscape's azz and left the survivors to build bars and lament.

No mention of browser offered

[onyxruby]

Hm, no mention of the browser that is being offered in the download. Makes me wonder if their agreement with MS a while back to renew IE and put "Netscape" out to pasture will result in people downloading the Netscape software package with IE integrated. Also missing are keypoints like standardized email, dial up, and no proprietary drivers and network settings. Will people paying less actually end up getting more?

years behind, robbIE will still tout for 'em

[Anonymous Coward]

we've been noting 10$ dialup services for several years now. what's the big deal with touting/shilling for these AhOLes robbIE?

& where is the 13$ (they charge 23$ now) extra, per hostage, per month, for the last several years, gone? somewhere in the bottom LIEn no DOWt.

they certainly didn't spend it improving anything.

How will this differ from

[drgroove]

Compuserve, which is wholly owned by AOL, and branded as their 'aol - lite and cheaper' ISP service? Or, will 'netscape' be the new name for 'compuserve'?

Re:How will this differ from

[gl4ss]

you're getting to their business plan: own most of dialup market, and then be YOURSELF the 'competitor' as well, so you get both those wanting to use your service and those who use another service just not to use your service. you see, if there's 20 competitors, of which 19 is owned by one single owner, then it's pretty hard to jump into that market as an 'alternative'.

or i might be losing my marbles.

Net, wah?

[Valar]

Why would I want to Scrape my net? Why does AoL let me do that? It can't be safe for the children. AoL iz teh best! lololol.

Features?

[Lord_Dweomer]

From the article:

"-will offer a single e-mail account, search powered by Google and some news links, the source added."

Oh wow......sign me up! But in all seriousness, if they can offer a dialup account that ISN'T cluttered by their software, AND isn't the slowest service in the world, AND doesn't force you to see ads, then more power too them.

Since you can currently have an AOL account for $10 a month without using them for net access (like if you connected over your school's network or something) and since this will be roughly $10, I wonder if it would end up being cheaper to just get both of these services instead of basic AOL!!! God wouldn't that be funny.

How delightful!

[annielaurie]

Just what we need. Another goddamned cheap AOL for the spammers to latch onto. With AOL's "Screw you, you're not one of ours" anti-spammer policy, this should work wonders for our inbaskets, not to mention our mail servers.

I can't think of anything else to say that's not profane.

Anne

Netscape

[Phroggy]

What I want to know is, will they ship the Netscape 7 browser to subscribers, ship a Netscape-branded hack of Internet Explorer with the home page set to netscape.com, or provide no extra software at all?

This could be a nightmare for tech support. You have no idea how many times I've had people tell me their web browser or Internet Service Provider was Yahoo, because that's what their home page was set to.

Marketing Geniuses

[Anonymous Coward]

If they acutally do sell it for 10 bucks AND
1) dont give you munged imeages.
2) dont serve up for AOL's stale cache.
3) Bundle it with latest/greates Mozilla derivative
4) Support Linux

this might not be so bad.

What happend to CompuServe?

[netringer]

I thought CompuServe was supposed to be AOL's low cost version?

Those of us who were on CompuServe many years before AOL, much less the Internet, was a gleem in Steve Case's eye know how silly an idea THAT was.

But will they use the Netscape browser?

[cgleba]

But will they *finally* use the Netscape/Mozilla browser for the service? If not, that would be a very interesting end to the browser wars: Netscape internet service acessiable only in IE.

It will also add to the tech support confusion as people will no longer understand the distinction between a browser and a service.

Play on name

[SuperBanana]

Ok guys, we gotta determine what name we'll actually call these users/the service. With AOL, it was easy- AOHell etc.

So what can we come up with for stupid AOL Netscape users/the service? Netscrape? Net-escape? Come on people, I'm graspin' at straws here, help me out. Must...insult....aol...users...

Re:Play on name

[swillden]

Just pick any of the old derogatory names for the Netscape browser. Nutscrape was popular; call the users Nutscrapers. There were a bunch of other variant names if you don't like that one.

Re:Play on name

[dVs--]

Nut-Scrape ?

Re:Play on name

[Phattypants]

Netcrap
Netscrape
Nutscape
Nutscrape
Notscape
and my favorite (drumroll)
Nuts! Crap!

AOL lacks basic features as it is

[AtariAmarok]

The run of the mill AOL account lacks standard features such as spam filtering and a way to save e-mails intact. How can it be stripped down even more than this?

Re:AOL lacks basic features as it is

[Julian352]

They've added those features recently in their newest client. Amazingly they even provide you with 20 megs worth of space on their e-mail service to store the messages, which is more than I can tell for hotmail or most other mail services. (even paid I think it's 10megs for hotmail)

They are finally waking up that dialup people want features that are useful and not ads.

Where's Netscape?

[brainthought]

So, is Netscape (err... Gecko based browser) a part of it or what? I mean, does it use I.E. alone or does it ship with Netscape? News.com says, "...the Netscape service will be a significantly smaller file download...". So what does that mean?

If no Netscape, then how do we refer to the browser if we don't mean the ISP now? (Mozilla... :-P)

But seriously... What will become of Netscape.com? I mean logically it will become the portal site for the ISP...

On the other hand, if it ships with I.E. (or at least an I.E. preferences changer) then this might be the first instance of a company setting I.E. users homepages to Netscape.com...

Re:Where's Netscape?

[CaptBubba]

Why not just use Netscape.net or netscape.aol.com?

I would guess that it won't use the Gecko engine. Honestly I bet that it is just a dialer that sets your homepage to a place where you can get your email using a webmail interface, using whatever browser you have as default. There's no reason to do anything more.

I have name recognition too.

[old_skul]

In celebration of my diminutive penis and impotence, I will now call myself "Microsoft", benefiting from name recognition.

WTF? WTF?

[butane_bob2003]

They charge $23 per month for dialup and some crappy TCL apps? For fucks sake. You'd think it was 1997. With all the "25000 hours Free AOL!" littering the gutters, you'd think everyone in the civilized world could get as much free dialup time as they can stand. Now they're whoring the Netscape name. Unabashed, shamless moneygrubbers.
1. Profit!! :)
2. Don't profit. :(
3. Call it Netscape!!
4. Profit again!! :)

support.

[geekoid]

AOL puts everything it needs into its own directories. This way, they can support specific files in specific directories.
They also don't need to depend on files that could change by another program, or an OS update.

Re:support.

[AKAImBatman]

> They also don't need to depend on files that could
> change by another program, or an OS update.

Bull. They would have been *far* better off relying on the TAPI and TCP/IP APIs instead of their attempts to take direct control over the modem and dial. Do you even REALIZE how many different INIT strings exist for modems!?

The *real* reason is that AOL's network uses a proprietary protocol. This is mostly due to the fact that networking didn't really exist when AOL was invented. Since it would be more expensive to attempt to convert the network, they build their software to use it directly.

TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[Ars-Fartsica]

This is desperate ploy to bring back some of the luster to the DOA dial-up service they have been slowly burying for some time. Parsons should just fess up and admit he wants to run a media business without the distraction of an ultra-low-maring connectivity dinosaur. This would in effect completely undo the TW/AOL merger - a move most shareholders would welcome, now that it is understood and accepted that all the merger did was vaporize shareholder wealth.

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[MImeKillEr]

Here's an idea:

Sell AOL to CompuServe. They could become THE one-stop shop for brainless 'tards who want pretty screens and useless content.

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[dasmegabyte]

Yes. Let us get rid of the broadband and cable sectors of AOL/TW. You know...the ones that showed more profit than any other division and have consistantly done so for years? It's not connectivity that's AOL's failings but a complete lack of respect for their customers, someting the TW side has never displayed. Hell, when I toured TW's tiny insignificant profitable Troy roadrunner branch five years ago, the guys were talking about having to buy more servers for the local online gamers and space for their Usenet raid. This was when they were charging $40 per month and capping nothing.

At the same time, AOL was still futzing with a proprietary ART format, an ancient proprietary browser, and forcing people to have a seperate "network adapter" for other internet services. See the difference there? One was doing things to help people enjoy the internet. The other was doing things to help DESTROY the internet. Funny which works and which doesn't. Funny which approach drug the future of a great company through the sands of mediocrity.

I think that if AOLTW wanted to offer a internet service whose brand really SCREAMED cheap, they'd name it "AOL STOCK CERTIFICATE."

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[headkase]

But at the same time they could be effectively putting a brake on IE dominance of the Internet. If AOL always put the latest version of Netscape on their installer disks, it could give the browser standards issue another 3-6 years of breathing room. If enough mom-and-pop people buy the Netscape brand and therefore as a group hold a significant level of market share (say 10%) then web-content creaters would be more likely to adhere to the W3C documentation for creating standards-compliant pages.

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[Anonymous Coward]

AOL bought CompuServe awile ago - they still maintain the service, but for all intents and purposes, CompuServe is AOL now.

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[MImeKillEr]

Ugh!

I didn't know that. So, whose name got tainted in that deal?

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[Ars-Fartsica]

But killing off AOL completely would not mean shutting off the broadband - TW was running that (RoadRunner) before they merged with AOL. I am talking about shutting off dial-up - a low-margin business that is an ongoing distraction from the media business TW desperately needs to return to.

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[jonfelder]

Better yet, sell AOL to itself...oh wait...

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[cyt0plas]

Actually, if you read the Compuserve Web Page, you will see that "Since February 1998, CompuServe has been a wholly owned subsidiary of America Online, Inc."

Why do you think Compuserve became another "brainless 'tard" ISP? You didn't think they could go that wrong on their own, did you?

Your idea is on the right track, but I don't know how you could sell AOL to a company owned _by_ AOL.

Re:TW needs to kill AOL in deed as well as name

[MImeKillEr]

Well, I hadn't bothered to look at CompuServe's webpage.

As for CompuServe becoming another brainless tard of an ISP - they've had a similar format to AOL since before the 'net went public. I can shamefully say that I was forced to use CompuServe while working for IBM as a Defect Reporting Specialist in the mid 90s. IBM, in its infinite wisdom, took defect submissions on all of its 300+ software products via a CompuServe email address.

It was the most painful 3 months of my life. Thank god for promotions...!

also in the news

[NotAnotherReboot]

Microsoft has announced a new, limited version of MSN called "Internet Explorer." It will cost $9.95/month.

A possible bundling of the service with Windows XP is being discussed.

useless crap

[labratuk]

The service will have less of the 'extras' that AOL users are used to, but will only cost $9.95 a month.

Is 'extras' directly translatable to 'crap'?

BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[Ars-Fartsica]

Yes, there are plenty of people who have low demands for connectivity, but very very few new customers in this market. All of these people already have dialup. Their next move will be to broadband..yes, even ma and pa Kettle.

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[Uart]

I'm not sure if ma and pa Kettle will WANT to go to broadband, but I am sure they will be forced to.

Eventually it is going to get very expensive for AOL and others to maintain dial-up access for the proverbial "handfull" of customers. Eventually broadband will be the only option for consumers.

No, I don't know how long that will take though -- who do I look like, frickin' Nostrodamus?

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[NickFitz]

Might be worthwhile hanging on for as long as possible. When the BBC wanted to finally turn off black & white VHF TV broadcasts, they gave free UHF colour sets to the few thousand people who were still using black & white VHF sets :-)

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[gordyf]

I thought the color signals were backwards compatable with black&white ones. Or is this only with NTSC?

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[cens0r]

It's only with NTSC... that's why NTSC sucks and is never the same color.

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[beebware]

They are - in fact, you can still buy monochrome TV sets here in the UK if you want to (especially the hand-held portable variety). I've never heard of the "BBC buying consumers colour tv sets" story before so I'm slightly sceptical myself...

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[Anonymous Coward]

Eventually it is going to get very expensive for AOL and others to maintain dial-up access

Why would it be expensive? All the equipment is purchased and installed and working. It's not like there are any new modem standards to worry about.

Not to mention that every broadband provider also offers dialup access to it's mobile customers. They can't just turn the modembanks off.

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[blane.bramble]

I believe he is referring to the old 405 line service (UK standard is now 625 line), but as the last transmitter was only turned off in the last 20 years or so (my parents have a holiday home in Scotland, the house had a 405 line TV which would occasionally receive a picture when the wind was right etc.) and we didn't receive a new colour TV, this sounds like rubbish.

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[ncc74656]

I thought the color signals were backwards compatable with black&white ones. Or is this only with NTSC?

The Brits had a 400-some-odd-line B&W format in use before PAL (which uses 625 scanlines). While NTSC was designed so that existing American B&W TVs could get a useful signal from it (both use 525 scanlines), PAL was designed without such backward-compatibility concerns.

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[smartfart]

Hmm... and what happens when all of their existing customers demand (or switch to, same thing) the lower monthly rate? I think I can hear the sound of AOL's revenue being cut in half...

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[NickFitz]

I should have made it clearer that the problem was that they wanted to turn off the VHF broadcast system. My only reference for the story is an article in the print edition of The Guardian, some time in the last year or so, concerning the timetable for takeup of digital television.

There was no sweeping operation to offer sets to all and sundry. A few diehards threatened to take legal action to prevent the turning off of VHF transmissions, on the grounds that they'd paid the licence fee and their VHF sets still worked. The Beeb settled with them by giving them new UHF sets, which was much cheaper than fighting a drawn-out legal battle over the terms of their Royal Charter. There were only a few thousand, or possibly just a few hundred, curmudgeons who benefited from this. The Beeb were obviously not going to publicise it (to keep numbers down), and still won't, in case people start pulling the same stunt when analogue TV is turned off in a few years.

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[NickFitz]

See my reply to the post above. Your parents were probably like mine - when told the VHF service was ending, they chucked out the old set and bought a new one. It was only a few troublemakers who ended up being paid off with UHF sets.

Re:BZZT. Dial-up market saturated, few new users.

[lga]

PAL was designed without such backward-compatibility concerns.

Actually PAL is backwards compatible with black and white TV's. It's just that the system referred to above was a 405 line system on VHF, which is what came before the 625 line TV's that led to PAL and colour.

Backwards compatible didn't extend as far as a system on a different frequency with fewer lines, going back 2 generations of TV technology.

Netscape?!?!?!

[Universal Nerd]

Isn't that just silly? I mean, reducing the name of Netscape to a cheap-ass striped down service is just plain mean. Not to mention all the confusion this will create, "Netscape provieder or Netscape browser?"

Netscape Infomercial

[CraigoFL]

I can see it now... some AOL guy comes on screen:

Back in November 1998, we bought Netscape for 4.2 billion dollars... but now, we're offering it to you for just $9.95 a month! Operators are standing by.

Re:Netscape Infomercial

[Misch]

Get Ron Popeil! For just 210 million easy payments of $19.95...

one word.... SAD

[Anonymous Coward]

one word.... SAD

Nobody remembers?

[Anonymous Coward]

GNN?

and ass an added bonus...

[josepha48]

... this new service will use IE as its browser ;-)

Or will they actually use netscape ???

Wow

[estoll]

As if the average Internet user wasn't confused enough as it is already! Most people don't know the difference between the Internet and a web browser. Now AOL is just blinding them further with their own ignorance.

Re:Wow

[Dragoon]

Totally, this is just an aol plot to grab as much revenue as they can off the netscape name.

Pretty standard for most businesses. Still pretty confusing for novices unfortunately.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Kinda like Roxio whoring out the Napster name, eh?

So I guess...

[Jaysyn]

Netscape is going to suck again....

Jaysyn

Reply to self

[etymxris]

Mod parent down, he has it all wrong ;)

"To help launch the new organization, America Online has pledged $2 million in cash to the Mozilla Foundation over the next two years. AOL will also contribute additional resources through equipment, domain names and trademarks, and related intellectual property, as well as providing some transitional assistance for key personnel as they move into the new organization."

It isn't specific what the trademarks were. But given the launch of this service, I'm guessing it included "Mozilla" related trademarks but not "Netscape" related trademarks. Details here.

who wants to bet...

[herrvinny]

Who wants to bet that AOL will be cannabalizing it's own user base with the launch of this Netscape online? Think about it. Most AOLers just want a simple way to get online, and don't like the $23.95 AOL cost, so a lot of them will just switch to the netscape online service.

$10 for Access $15 for Content $24 for FullService

[H8X55]

they're charging $9.95 for access to the internet. no AOL content, just the access.

or

if you already have broadband, you can add just the content for $14.95.

they charge $23.90 or whatver for both. it would make sense that they would offer full subscribers some sort of discount, more than the $1.10 they're giving them now.

Walmart

[hendridm]

I think they might have been testing this for some time now. The $9.95 unlimited Internet access from Walmart looks and sounds eerily similar to AOL (similar packaging and marketing). I thought AOL *couldn't* be selling Walmart access for so much cheaper than they are offering it to their own customers, but it looks like that is in fact what they were doing.

What a trip...

[Broken Bottle]

The rise and fall of Netscape: from groundbreaking browser developer that lit the fuse on the internet boom to a $9.95 per month domain name email host...

pitty

Chris

Youv'e got!

[Salamanders]

EOM.

What browser will it use?

[Anonymous Coward]

The irony of this situation is, depending on Microsoft's browser deal with AOL, that there would be a Netscape branded internet service, where the default browser was IE.

Tabbed Browsing for the masses!

[revividus]

If they include Netscape 7 as the default browser, maybe Mom and Pop will get used to tabs (if they realize they exist), and actually realize how backward IE is becoming...

Re:Tabbed Browsing for the masses!

[DongleFondle]

Actually, you can also simply install MYIE2 to internet explorer. Its an add-on to IE that includs pop-up blocking, tabbed browsing, and slew of other features many of which are available no where else. And you still get the benefits of Internet Explorer, (doesn't take an hour to load). That's really the only benefit I can think of . . .

Re:Tabbed Browsing for the masses!

[Anonymous Coward]

Will work for free [fsf.org].

Did you know that FSF employees qualify for government housing subsidies?

Re:Tabbed Browsing for the masses!

[revividus]

That's great -- I do have Avant browser, Yet Another IE Extension (adds tabbed browsing, etc) on my PC at work, but I hardly ever use it. I don't like Netscape, really, either, I've been using Firebird quite happily since 0.5, I think. Firebird has none of the `extra' baggage of Netscape or Mozilla, and is quite fast.

Anyways, unless MYIE2 fixes IE's crappy CSS2 support, it still doesn't make the browser functional, IMHO. :-)

Telco Kickbacks

[Detritus]

Is the ISP getting kickbacks from the telephone company? That is how some "free" ISPs make their money.

Obligatory AOL Joke

[Anonymous Coward]

AOL Grandchildren: Hey Gramps! I surf the INTRAWEB!

Netscape Granpa: Hey! Me too!

Great for DSL/Cable users

[jhines]

They need to market it as a more permanent email service, which one can access no matter who your isp is, or if your away.

Re:Great for DSL/Cable users

[IM6100]

Well, yeah. Just like any other mail account you get on a server not directly associated with your ISP account.

Who would have thought something so new and exciting could come to be?!!??

Name Recognition?

[mongoks]

In a move to cash-in on name recognition, AOL will be naming this service 'Netscape'."
Is Netscape's name recognition really worth that much at this point?

The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[Greyfox]

Back in the day there were 3 rings of the cluebie hell. The first ring was CompuServe. These were the people who were almost bright enough to get a flat-rate PPP provider. Some of them atoned for their sins and moved to the Internet.

The second ring of Cluebie Hell is AOL. Pretty much the same demographic that made FOX the network it is today. 'Nuff said. Some of them atoned for their sins and moved to CompuServe.

The third ring was were the truly damned were kept. It was called Prodigy. Words can not describe this horrific place, you had to experience it for yourself. Fortunately Prodigy has departed this world as have all of its users. You see, a secret government program was started when it was found that we could raise the collective IQ of the entire race by 10 points by eliminating the Prodigy users. They were all quietly taken out and shot and the service was closed down. Know any ex-Prodigy users? No? That's not a coincidence.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[bhtooefr]

Unfortunately, I do. They're about the level of the AOLuser. BTW, they didn't eliminate the ISP part - SBC Yahoo Dial accounts were given to Prodigy customers. So, does that make them SBC Yahoo Dialusers?

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[RocketSHE]

One of my former co-workers used to use Prodigy. He doesn't admit it now. I think his memory has been wiped.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[acidrain69]

I am an ex-prodigy user. I used it on my first PC back in 1989, way before it was easy to get true 'net access. This was before Prodigy tried to get on the web. It had some fun games at the time, and the boards were OK. I was only on it for a short time until I discovered BBSes, and eventually sysoped my own. Around 94 a company came to my area with true net access, and I got on that for 2 years before going to college and getting a degree in CS.

Prodigy is still alive today, it has been assimilated into the SBC network, which I work for. I don't know much about it, but from what I can tell, they eventually became an all-net company. Now it is part of SBC-Yahoo.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[cableshaft]

Heheh, I still rememeber when my elementary school had a computer that connected to Prodigy in their library (I think I was in the fourth grade). One day I sat down at the computer and typed up some stuff on the login screen. It wouldn't connect. I got confused and left. ...was I supposed to be one of the ones killed off? I feel lucky I couldn't get onto the network. I feel sorry for all the people the school allowed to login to the system though.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[JabberWokky]

You're one of the sunovabitches that destroyed the internet (f@11)!!!

Way back when it was just us chickens on the net, you had zero spam, and a reasonable assumption that the person you were talking to was at least an undergrad and more likely grad school or held a doctorate. Then BIX set up a gateway. It wasn't *so* bad. But then the delphoids invaded. Damn Delphi users watered down the net, ran amuck on usenet (this was before the web was invented), and otherwise ignored tradition and netiquette, didn't know who Kibo was, didn't have a clue as to what an S-100 bus was...

Then AOL. That was hellish, yes. But then it was *you* *people*. Prodigy was the worst collection of inane idiots to hit the net. Shortly thereafter, Canter and Siegel sent out the first mass advertising transmission, Mosaic appeared, and the great decline began.

Now get me another drink while I sit here in my rocker on the front porch and wave my cane at the kids, yelling at them to get off the grass. Heh.

--
Evan

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[ttrafford]

I used to use the old EGA graphics version of Prodigy. This was pre-Internet connectivity, however.

(release the hounds!)

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[acidrain69]

nononono, read it again, I said I was on prodigy BEFORE they added internet service. I was on the prodigy forums, where only prodigy users could connect to. This back when most games were EGA, maybe VGA if it was real cutting edge. I was on a BBS while the internet was still ramping up, and then around 93-94 I got on the internet when it became available near me. I think there was net access in the Palm Beach Fl area before that, but it was all just shell access, not PPP or SLIP.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[JabberWokky]

Uh... Palm Beach, FL area?

Yes, yes there was. Crystal Wind BBS had it (that was mine), as did several other systems. What BBSes were you on? You're talking to the orginal Gandalf (1981ish), Grey Elf ('84-'86ish), Xandar (87ish-90ish) and finally the intentionally misspelled JabberWokky. I was on Panther's Byte, Little Red's, Screaming in Digital, Mostly Harmless, 4Cs and many others. There's at least one other oldschool 305/407/561 BBSer on here. (obNote: You BBSed a long time when the areacodes changed three times).

I was also user account #5 (jw) on Florida Internet (the first non-owner/admin account), now part of Verio/NTT. Good times - the office fridge was loaded with beer, and they let users hang out in the office.

As to Prodigy, my rant was more humerous than real. I was also on Prodigy back when it was CGA, and SimCGA worked fine with Hercules cards.

Did'ja know that the news servers for Prodigy ran out of the Palm Beach Post building on Belvedere and Olive? I have part of one of the PBP's PDP terminals - 36 bits of toggle switching power.

--
Evan "Babbling detected... shutting off coffee supply now"

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[Guppy06]

"hell, I'm surprised he remembers to wear pants."

Brainiac: "All I want is a decent pair of pants!"

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[Adrian De Leon]

Prodigy is alive and kicking in Mexico. It is owned by Telmex, the largest Mexican phone company.

Of course Prodigy is a standard ISP now, hell, It is the best ISP on Mexico right now. With a top notch broadband service, a little pricey compared to the States but still pretty good service.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[acidrain69]

I was then (as now) known as Acid Rain, and I ran After Shock. I can't remember the years, but I still have the files around somewhere and could pull them up. I was on SID and a million other boards, most of which I've forgotten. I wasn't there for the 305-407 split, but I was on BBSes well before the 407-561 split. I was too yound to drink beer when I actually had an acct on Fli-net.

shudder. CGA. My first x86 machine was a 10mhz 286 PS1 with a 30 meg HD. Top-o-the-line baby. Stunning VGA graphics. 2400 bps modem (although I think 9600 were out by then).

Which part of the PDP? I didn't know that.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[Greyfox]

There was shell access through gate.net at that time, but they nicely had a compiler on it, so you could compile slirp and do PPP emulation across the shell. Worked like a charm.

Re:The Three Rings of Cluebie Hell

[acidrain69]

That was it. Gate.net. I couldn't remember the name. That was before I knew anything though, and if you had said slirp to me, I would have given you a funny look. I had a vague understanding that there were computers out there that didn't run DOS and MacOS, but I had never seen one.

you sure you want to name this NETSCAPE?

[vida]

I'd like to think they've done a bunch of marketing studies and polls to determine the feasability of naming this new initiative NETSCAPE. Yet, considering the segment they seem to be targeting (users w/o big pipes needs, email, grandkids pics), it doesn't seem like NETSCAPE will have a lot of pull w/ those. The browser war has been over for years now, and people whose needs match what this service offers doesn't seem likely to really recognize it.

Just had a vision of my life going to hell.

[jube_fl]

This is going to be a tech support nightmare. I already get people calling and telling me their ISP is netscape just because their home page is set to netscape.com. They could have just named it aol basic or something like that to use bigger known brand name. Or is aol trying to hide from their own bad publicity by changing names?

KURT COBAIN WHO PLAYED HIS SON WAS A DOOFUS

[Anonymous Coward]

where did his acting career go after that sitcom

Erm, dont you mean "cash OUT" of name recognition?

[Lord Bitman]

Seems to me that "AOL" is a much more recognizable name than "Netscape"- you can't help but know AOL from.. everything they do to shove their name at you.
Sounds much more like they're trying to get Away from that name..

TZZB. People move.

[pebs]

Yes, there are plenty of people who have low demands for connectivity, but very very few new customers in this market. All of these people already have dialup. Their next move will be to broadband..yes, even ma and pa Kettle.

People move to new areas and subscribe to new services. Think of people who previously lived with several other people and shared a [broadband] internet connection, who are moving away and living alone, but don't plan on using their account for much.

For me, I'd pay the extra bucks for broadband even if I were living alone, but that's not the case for everyone.

The market for dialup may not be growing, but the opportunity to compete is still there.

Name Recognition: In Other News...

[Xeger]

BankOne announced today that their online payment service will be renamed to Napster in order to leverage the brand-name recognition afforded by their recent buyout of the defunct music-swapping network.

Furthermore, their collections department will henceforth be known as United Payout Service, and collections agents will show up at your door wearing brown "UPS" uniforms and carrying tantalizingly wrapped parcels.

Brad Templeton, formerly of the Electronic Frontier Foundation but now hailing from the recently-renamed Quarter Pounder with Cheese, said in response to the news "This misrepresentation just the kind of thing we're against! I've half a mind to report these folks to the Securities and Exchange Commission!"

A spokesman from the SEC was unavailable for comment, remarking that he cannot make any official position statements until the agency finishes its internal reorganization next Tuesday, at which time it will be known as the Fuzzy Bunnies Commission.

Who's your ISP?

[golgotha007]

at least now when you ask your friend's mom what ISP she uses and she says 'Netscape', you won't think she's a freakin moron.

oh wait..

Yay?

[fetus]

So basically "Netscape" will be the gateway drug to the more expensive and brain-damaging AOL.

I'm sure there won't be any ads to upgrade to the latest, greatest, 2000-system-file-modifying AOL installation yet!

Netscape == Amiga ?

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Could it be that "Netscape" will be the next "Amiga" brand? In other words, a once-great brand that they just slap on things they want to draw attention to, even though the new offerings have absolutely nothing to do with the original?

AOL are fools to have let go of the Mozilla people. Netscape 7.x would have been the perfect fully-integrated client software for this new service. And it would have been cross-platform from the very beginning, allowing AOL to tap into markets that were otherwise inaccessible.

Re:Netscape == Amiga ?

[Photon Ghoul]

This has also happened to Atari. A 'classic' name used by Infogrames to buy more brand recognition.

Re:Netscape == Amiga ?

[mdwh2]

..or the next "Mac" brand, or the next "Windows" brand, or the next "Ford" brand.. (none of which have anything to do with the original, or at least, no more than Amiga).

I think you're confusing things. It's perfectly commonplace (especially outside of computers) to use brandnames for a range of related products (eg, cars), even though the design of those products may be entirely different. What is different here with Netscape is that it's not just a case of using the name for an entirely different web browser, but something that isn't even a web browser at all.

a matter of time

[Greg@RageNet]

So all those lame-brained users I worked with when I did tech support back in 1995 can be right now when they call and say "my netscape is down!"

-- Greg

Re:OMFG! CAN THEY DOO THAT!? WON'T NETSCAPE SUE!??

[Anonymous Coward]

Look asshat. AOL BOUGHT Netscape. They can do whatever they want to with that name.

Extras!!!

[t0ny]

The service will have less of the 'extras' that AOL users are used to

The service will not offer you three credit cards every time you log in, and you wont get disconnected every fifteen minutes!

RTFA - concept only at this time

[bryane]

Seems they are testing the waters of demand by leaking theories...

The service is currently more of a concept than a developed product and will not be made available until early 2004, the source said.

Re:RTFA - concept only at this time

[Mattwolf7]

Well my older brother is one of the programmers at AOL in Columbus, Ohio. And he was telling me how he is working on the client for the Netscape ISP. So it isn't just a theory, there is good evidence that a working version will be finished soon.

I just realized I am going to get modded down just because I am related to someone who works for AOL...

I always used crashscape

[bluGill]

But that was back when netscape really did crash all the time. Not always the fault of netscape, Windows 3.1 wasn't exactly stable, and netscape did use more than it could deliver.

Appearently I'm amoung the few who remember that netscape was themselves evil, and did evil things in their attempt to own the net. I joined the any browser campaign in reaction to netscape, back when microsoft didn't care about the internet.

It has to be said...

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing is for certain, there is no stopping them; AOL/Netscape will soon be here. I, for one, welcome our new Internet overlords.

Name recognition?

[mr_z_beeblebrox]

In a move to cash-in on name recognition, AOL will be naming this service 'Netscape'

Naming it Netscape for name recognition? Is that a variation of the "Good idea" theme? Remember a variation of a good idea is "not a good idea".

Way to fubar my resume, AOL. Thanks again!

[EvilStein]

GREAT.
See, I used to work at Netscape.
Now if I apply for another job, I'm going to have the HR wingnut say "Oh, Netscape! I used to have them for my internet but I kept getting busy signals."

Thanks, AOL! This is even better than the 800 underwater stock options I was given as a "thanks" for them not laying me off. Actually, I would have come out far far ahead if they would have actually laid me off. And oh, how I tried to get laid off. Steve Case never did return my call about the missing espresso machine.. that jerk.

Naming Nightmare

[WndrBr3d]

Does AOL have any idea how difficult the naming scheme they're using is going to be for the customer support areas of companies?

I mean, we deal with a lot of customers where I work and browser compatibility is a big issue. Now we'll have to ask 'Are you using Netscape the browser, or Netscape the internet service'.

It'd be like Honda renaming the 'Civic' to 'Toyota':
COMING SOON FROM HONDA, THE 2005 TOYOTA*!
* not actual Toyota automobile

Microsoft must be very pleased...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the final-kill move to an allready long-since dead web browser. Kill the browser, now kill the name. (change what it means).

In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Microsoft haven't allready lined the pockets of AOL reps for making this strategic move happen.

Who is a Lawyer?

[SubtleNuance]

Ok, someone help me out here.

Isnt there a bit of obscure Trademark law that forbids the creation of a new, different product using the same name? I know there are a who slew of instances where a brand name is used on many 'different' products (rolo ice cream, rolos, rolo-bits, rolo-whipped-spread-topping for instance) -- but in order to keep from confusing people, you couldnt release a different product with an 'old name'?

Does someone know what Im talking about?

Re:Who is a Lawyer?

[Montreal Geek]

Does someone know what Im talking about?

Yes, but you got it backwards.

Trademark law specifically allows reusing the same name if it's for a completely unrelated product, since there can be no confusion. I couldn't brand my cars "Ford", because people might confuse my cars with those of the other company, but I can very well market my new "Ford breakfast cereal".

There are a number of subtleties, though, like if I were to try to package my cereal in a box featuring motor vehicles, Ford would probably have a good case that I'm trying to dilute their trademark.

Now, that being said, AOL has no such concerns whatever since they own the Netscape Trademark. They are pretty much allowed to brand anything they want with it. And besides, an ISP is hardly unrelated to an HTTP client.

-- MG

Instant Messenger

[BrynM]

will lose many of the bells and whistles that are standard on AOL, such as its instant messaging software and chat rooms

I find it interesting that they are pulling AIM out. When they bought Netscape, the bundled AIM into every version of the browser installer download (yes, even the venerable 2.0 version comes with AIM). So are they actually removing the AIM installer from the Netscape installer or are they going to charge a fee for activating AIM?

Re:Instant Messenger

[RocketSHE]

You (and a few others) seem to be laboring under the assumption that Netscape (the ISP) will necessarily be packaged with Netscape (the browser). Think about it. AOL comes with IE. Why should AOL-lite come with anything else. "Smaller download" could just refer to a smaller amount of AOL specific client bloat.

This is a mess. I use and like Netscape 7.1. In fact, I recommended it to someone I know just yesterday. Now I'm going to have to download Mozilla, just to avoid confusion when I talk about my browser.

Get on the Internet

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, now we'll have even more clueless people who want to "Get on the Internet" while referring to browsing the World Wide Web.

More like lose money to name recognition

[eurleif]

Let's face it, the average (grand)mother still think of Netscape 4.x when they hear the name "Netscape". I like Mozilla as much as anyone, but Netscape 4 was a nightmare - and most consumers agree.

The difference

[clausiam]

is in the per-minute charges you quote. I bet the ISP you mention is a telco? They give away the connection for next-to-nothing but get you on the per-minute charges. Since most US phone customers have unlimited local calls as part of the phone service and most (?) ISP's are not telco's that means that there is no such thing as a per-minute-charge to neither the telco or the ISP. That said I agree that a lot of services are much more expensive in the US (I am a Dane who's been in the US for 7 years). For example cable/satellite TV: ~$45/month, DSL: ~$45-$50/month, Phone service: ~$30/month (unlimited local calls). /Claus

This could backfire

[Anonymous Coward]

If this indeed goes through, it could backfire.

If AOL markets this with "AOL" anywhere on it, they could end up canibalizing their own customers. It may also prompt customers to ask AOL why they need to pay nearly $25/mo. to get what they can now have for $10/mo.

Up to now, AOL has cleverly marketed to the clueless that AOL is the Internet. A friend of mine just recently migrated his boss from AOL to DSL. When he called to cancel AOL, the CSR pushed their broadband service, but when he was cornered, he admitted that it just ran on top of an existing DSL or cable connection.

In short, AOL is bringing less and less to the Internet party. In a recent commercial, they hyped the ability to hear who's calling while you're online. Hello!!! The Internet Answering Machine was doing that in 1999. Lately, they're saying that their AOL for Broadband service protects you from hackers. Uh huh. And so does any number of personal firewalls and routers, and I personally think a newbie user is safer away from AOL with its hordes of script-kiddie-wannabes trying to steal passwords and cc numbers.

AOL is in trouble. They're still big, but they're on a downward slide.

They keep the same name...

[CGP314]

and I see slashdot will keep the same icon.

Yay

[Anonymous Coward]

Now when people tell me their ISP is Netscape I don't have to say "No, thats your browser. Who do you pay?"

Just great....

[sailracer6]

I remember back in Netscape's glory days, asking someone who their ISP was, and him, thinking for a second, then saying "Netscape."

"Oh," I said, "I didn't know they sold Internet service," and left it at that.

As if people who think they have to open Internet Explorer to "get on the Internet" weren't enough of a problem already...

what happens to Compuserve now?

[The Lynxpro]

Compuserve WAS AOL's "semi-cut price" ISP that competed with Prodigy and MSN in terms of retail rebates... Yes, and I do know about Compuserve's much distinguished pre-AOL owned history...

Why this is bad

[digitalgimpus]

1. AOL is removing the biggest star on the net right now. Instant Messaging.

2. It will most likely use a version of IE, which people will call netscape, adding to the confusion (Mozilla is Netscape, IE is Netscape, Netscape is Netscape?)

3. Yet another stab at kiling innovation. At least AOL was playing with new features for the masses (IM, etc). Now it will be making a generic IE browser the popular tool.

Ugh.

In other (latin) news...

[Anonymous Coward]

mehercle!
Rebecca, ecce! tantae clunes isti sunt!

amica esse videtur istorum hominum rhythmicorum.
sed, ut scis,
quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?
colloquuntur equidem cum ista eo tantum, quod scortum perfectum esse videtur.
clunes, aio, maiores esse!
nec possum credere quam rotondae sint.
en! quam exstant! nonne piget te earum?
ecce mulier Aethiops!

magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur,
cum puella incedit minore medio corpore
sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos
virtute praestare ut velitis, notantes bracas eius
clunibus profunde fartas esse
a! captus sum, nec desinere intueri possum.
o dominola mea, volo tecum congredi
pingereque picturam tui.
familiares mei me monebant
sed clunes istae libidinem in me concitant.
o! cutis rugosa glabraque!
dixistine te in meum vehiculum intrare velle?
in arbitrio tuo totus veni
quia non es mediocris adsecula.
vidi illam saltantem.
obliviscere igitur blanditiarum!
tantus sudor! tantus umor!
vehor quasi in curru quadrigarum!
taedet me in diurnis legendi
planas clunes gratiores iudicari.
rogate quoslibet Aethiopes: responsum erit
se libentius expletiores anteponere.
o consortes (quid est?) o consortes (quid est?)
habent amicae vestrae magnas clunes? (certe habent!)
hortamini igitur ut eas quatiant (ut quatiant!)
ut quatiant! (ut quatiant!)
ut quatiant illas clunes sanas!
domina mea exstat a tergo!

Next up: Mosaic VT100 Service

[chancycat]

Next up: Microsoft's reduced-features, yet cutting-edge 'Mosaic' service for VT-100 terminal users. Only $9.99 a month!

(network connectivity is the responsibility of the user)

Re:Mike Seaver of Growing Pains

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you wearing?

A Good potential ISP

[zoloto]

This is for upstate NY area only as far as I know. Like Syracuse, Rochester and BUffalo but Five95.NET is cheap at 5.95 a month. I used them for 6 months and they're good. plus it's standard dialup. You can use a regular ppp connection settings for Win32, linux, Zeta(BeOS) MAC OSX etc.

it's nice. check it out if you live(d) there.

disclaimer: i am not affiliated with them whatsoever.

Compuserve

[digitalgimpus]

Compuserve was retargeded for businesses years ago.

This new service is to replace what Compuserve was at one point.

Re:Compuserve

[The Lynxpro]

*Compuserve was retargeded for businesses years ago. This new service is to replace what Compuserve was at one point.*

When exactly did this start happening? Compuserve was branded "CompuServe2000" for the in-store rebates for locking into ISP contracts for 3 years, and they [AOL] were doing this up until last year to my knowledge. Even on the Netscape.com website, they first were promoting CompuServe for $14.99 unlimited, and then they bumped it up to $19.99 when AOL went to $21.99 and then to $23.99 per month...

cutting features to what purpose?

[ArmorFiend]

What "features" can they cut that will lower their overhead? Bundled software? Isn't the incremental cost of that zero, since they've paid to develop it?

Oh, nice!

[EqualSlash]

Oh,nice - now slashdot can reuse the Netscape icon.

They did it before

[Pop69]

During the rash of pay as you go ISPs here in the UK, AOL used the Netscape brand name for their PAYG offering. It was, funnily enough, a cut down dial-up service from AOL but did at least have Netscape as the browser.

An interesting development

[vudufixit]

I teach adults evening courses on basic computer use, including the Internet.
One of the most difficult concepts to get them to understand is the difference between a browser and an ISP.
Now the line has been completely blurred!
Damn you AOL/TW/Netscape! Damn You!!!!

Might as well, they killed Compuserve as well

[weave]

Compuserve used to be *the* dialup provider. I first signed up in 1982 when it was text-only, 300 baud, $6.00/hour. Compuserve was one of the last providers to go to flat rate too. It had all the best vendor support forums at a time and was basically the high-end service. When they got 1200 bps, it was $12.00/hour. Wow, 4x the speed, only 2x the price! :)

Many years passed, they started to support PPP, finally got flat rate access. Then AOL bought them and raped the name and turned it into a discount ISP, as if you could get any lower than AOL. Basically, ruined it. Believe it or not, there are a few die-hard compuserve originals on the "classic" service, which is an entirely separate dialup network than AOL/UUnet. I still have an account on compuserve since I can get local dialup access at no extra charge all over the world.

So, I guess AOL, not satisfied with ruining Compuserve (as one can see by some of the other comments here about them) are out to destroy what's left of Netscape too.

Idiots. No wonder Time Warner is embarassed by them.

Sounds about right. . .

[Fritz Benwalla]

Hmmm. . .Take something that was expensive to build, used to be cutting edge, and then discount it until it's hardly worth anything?

Yup, sounds like Netscape.

------

Cool...

[jafiwam]

I can I be the first person to say;

[netscape]

Me TOoo!!!!1

[/netscape]

Ex-Prodigy user and proud of it!

[twifkak]

Yes, really! Well, no. Not proud of it. Look, I was, like, 10, and my parents got it! My brother and I once sent a greeting card featuring an animated beer mug to my dad for his birthday! He doesn't drink, but that was the best they had.

Any way, yeah, poor CompuServe. Seeing how AOL pwns CompuServe, and it still runs as a budget dialup ISP, I guess this means goodbye CompuServe.

Lingo and fun!

[Amiasian]

What a blessing. Now when new users say what service they're using, "Netscape" can be a valid answer. Uhm . . .
Unless they're using the "Netscape" browser with another service.

Oh shades!

Not very forward-looking

[theflea]

I think they'd do better to market a similar product that was a little more sophisticated to match a more sophisticated computer user. People are starting to discover that their computers come with everything they need to connect to the internet and send e-mail. Even my parents are starting to feel constrained by AOL.

AOL has something that few other companies have: millions of people who send them $20+ per month. However, customers are leaving. Going for the low end will not move them into the future.

Every time I look at the AOL interface, I can't beleive a multi-billion dollar entity would stake its future on that.

In the end, no business can survuive if nobody wants to buy their products.

Lets see how romero does at midway

[Anonymous Coward]

"John Romero is planning to launch a discounted game to follow the hit pc game Doom. The service will have less of the 'extras' that Doom players are used to, but will still cost $69.95. After taking much time thinking about what will be their legendary new products name.In a move to make sure he is screwed by reviewers everywhere. Romero will be naming this game 'daiktana'."

Mozilla!!

[jr87]

tomorrow the open source mozilla isp comes out...free...as in beer!

new slogans

[zorcon]

"Netscape" by AOL: Same crappy service, but with a price you can live with. "Netscape" by AOL: Same crappy service for only $9.99; the price most people with a clue have been paying for their internet for the last EIGHT YEARS!!! "Netscape" by AOL: Proof that with even a good price, our service still sucks, and you still wont leave!

slightly incorrect about EarthLink

[valmont]

EarthLink installation has, for years, always configured everything you needed to use the internet, including installing its own email client and configuring it for your account(s). "EarthLink 5.x" was more of a sandbox paradigm. The new "Total Access" series (2003, 2004) adopt a far less intrusive "toolbar" approach, that keeps everything you need at your fingertibs in a toolbar conveniently positioned on the screen. TotalAccess 2004 also comes with its own e-mail client which is seemlessly integrated with EarthLink's latest spam-blocking features. In any case, from the moment you pop the CD into the computer until you are reading email and "surfing the 'Net", the whole experience is very, very easy.

The difference with AOL is that EarthLink does not require you to use their software to get on-line. If you know what you're doing, you could simply sign-up for a dial-up account online from, say, your work, at the end of which you'd get presented with a screen that gives you all the settings you need to set-it up yourself: mail server (POP/SMTP), news server, http/www address, ftp upload info, NNTP server and all that groovy stuff..

it basically gives you options. If you don't want to think, just pop the CD-in and you're done, if you don't want to use their software, config it yourself. easy.

Re:slightly incorrect about EarthLink

[falsified]

Right. And from the perspective of people like my cousin, Earthlink (a bad example on my part since Earthlink does come with software...think of a local or regional ISP, perhaps) doesn't "come with" anything. I personally think that's a great thing but there are people that think that you need to have a big program or else you're getting ripped off because you have to go use other programs to get the same thing. They figure that it's the responsibility of the company to package everything together.

As an aside, I'm surprised AOL didn't do this the second Windows 95 came out and we didn't have to deal with the Winsock shit. Tentatively speaking, this is a good move by Goliath.

Re:slightly incorrect about EarthLink

[Anonymous Coward]

there are people that think that you need to have a big program or else you're getting ripped off

This was my experience too while getting my father-in-law on "the internet". I first tried a local ISP (which I was using at the time) that offered five mailboxes with 5 or 10 email aliases and a huge hunk of storage and web space. Unlimited access. They had a small installation program that made setting up everything you needed (web browser and email) easy for either IE or Netscape. All for the bargain price of $15 per month.

Within a month, he had dumped the service. He was paying $15 for nothing. He really did not understand web browsers or how to find what he wanted. He did not really even know what he wanted.

In came AOL. Everything was there in one spot. Email, chat rooms, news, weather, and all sorts of content happily shoved down his gullet with minimal effort on his part. To him and many other internet newbies this was "The Internet". This was the high point of AOL where computers and the internet were new and up and coming. For him and many others there will never be any need for anything different. They may try broadband or other services but later find that for what they are doing the cost and performance of dial-up or the comfort and ease of use of content providers such as AOL suits just fine.

However, this high point can't last as it is and AOL surely could see this coming. Most kids and young adults today have been raised around computers--in the schools and in homes. They don't need this shit rammed down their throat anymore. They have the skills and knowledge to find what they want, when they want, how they want. Low cost dial-up service and the ever decreasing cost of broadband quickly overcomes the limitations in AOL.

This new move by AOL is smart thing in that they must adapt to this change or suffer the consequences and if using a recognizable name and providing one more option helps to keep them afloat then by all means go to it.

Re:slightly incorrect about EarthLink

[hetairoi]

hmmmm, did not know that about earthlink, but then again I only see it when I work on other people's computers (until recently earthlink did not have a local dialup number in my rural location).

that seals it though, this won't get any new customers for AOL but will provide a nice alternative to those who don't need the big clunky client anymore.

It's AOL's liferaft

[kitzilla]

I'd like to thank each of you for attending today's AOL strategy meeting.

Okay, as you know, we've never been *really* able to sell AOL as a content-delivery service. Our core business remains dial-up ISP services. It's a declining business, but could remain profitable for some time if we keep our costs down.

So here's the plan: we're going to roll our core business into a new brand. It's actually a familiar brand we'll now reposition as a dial-up provider for the masses. Slap the Netscape portal on top of cheap dial-up, and there you go.

Meanwhile, AOL will continue as always. When Time-Warner finally gives us the boot, they'll get AOL's content assets. Those, in turn, will find their way to TW's cable TV division.

At the end of the day, we'll again be a dialup provider under the Netscape brand. But we'll be price-competitive again. Time Warner goes their way, and we go ours.

Okay, there's the strategy portion of our program. Up next, we'll discuss the new AOL-branded Segway scooters. They're the next Big Thing: "So easy to ride, no wonder they're number one."

UK already did it years ago - "Netscape Online"

[rklrkl]

The UK had a Netscape-branded ISP years ago - its portal is still, surprisingly, available and I even have the Netscape Online ISP CD I picked up from a branch of Woolworth (probably the only ISP CD at that time that came with Netscape [4.X] instead of IE !). I have no idea if you can still sign up for Netscape Online in the UK - anyone got any ideas (the portal gives no clue)? I reckon you'll just sign up with AOL if you tried that old CD now :-)

Re:UK already did it years ago - "Netscape Online"

[Anonymous Coward]

Netscape Online used AOL user IDs ("screen names" for the AOLamers). The only infrastructure difference was that Netscape Online used different telephone numbers and therefore had cheaper access.

When I first saw Netscape Online CDROMs, I thought that it was a trial for a larger rollout, but I'm surprised that it took so long. I have a stack of Netscape Online CDROMs and I hoped that they would become a curiousity.

in different words what may really happen:

[Anonymous Coward]

What they said:

In a move to cash-in on name recognition, AOL will be naming this service 'Netscape'."

What they mean:
In an attempt to finally dispense of the name "Netscape" from the Internet and close the business unit associated with it at the lowest cost possible they plan to launch an under-powered, under-featured Internet service that will have no hope of sustainability and will certain result in it's eventual crash and burn taking the now maligned and soon to be forgotten name of Netscape with it.

The jokes on us!

[panic911]

This is kinda funny. Me and a few of my friends had an ongoing joke about how people would always call their ISP 'Netscape' or 'Internet Explorer'. I'm sure some of you tech savvy people out there know what I mean, a lot of ignorant people assumed because their browser said Netscape that this must be their ISP. Seems the joke is now on us...

And in related news...

[IDigUNIX]

...today SCO announced the release of a new lighter version of Linux, that is unencumbered by the GPL, and the feature bloat that is rampant in the Linux software stack. And thanks to SCO's innovative IBCS technology you'll be able to run your fav Linux apps unaltered on SCO's new OS.

A SCO representative stated that they'd be marketing this product under the name "UNIXWare".

Userfriendly was about 6 years ahead of its time

[Anonymous Coward]

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=1997122 1& mode=classic

As the Lectroids from planet ten stated -

[Basil Ganglia]

So what? Big Deal.

Linux Compatablilty

[Dusanyu]

It would be quight nice if they built the Capabilty to Acess this into Netscape Navagator for Linux. Aol does have one Upside to it one can go aneey ware and find a local acess number (US AOL accounts evin work on AOL Japan) for the people who are forced to travle and have to provide thire own dile up access this could be quight nice and well it would also be nive not to have to foire up win 90 on VM ware to use it

AOL naming it Netscape

[Anonymous Coward]

How disusting is this? What a frelling insult to the memory of Netscape. Let me guess, AOL/TIME WARNER, with all the money in the world, doesn't have the resources to come up with something original?

I fucking hate AOL.

cheap linux/unix friendly dial up in america?

[pixel fairy]

what cheap linux/unix friendly dial ups work well?
which ones to avoid? cheap meaning $10/month or less.
any have linux friendly tech support?

Just What is It?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, its a "thin client". What is meant by that in this AOL offering? Are you supposed to bring a win XP box to the table, and put their CD in, and your dial up settings are installed, Netscape is installed, and off you go, with a default home page of some sort? We all know that Mozilla 1.4 still has the "home" button in the wrong place, unlike MozillaFirebird, an effort by Netscape to keep the default page going. Of course you can change it, and I do. Now for the Big Question! can you get the ISP settings, and use them on your Linux partition? You do have a Linux Partition on your Windows box, don't you? I have several, and Debian and Slackware are my current favorites. Or would I have to network my box with this dial up running in XP to a Linux box to get connected (well with dialup) using this new version of AOL?
Anyone remember FreeWWWeb? I connected to the internet with Arachne with that, and of course using Linux (Redhat 6) So, what do we get for our money? I hope it's not a stripped down version of the AOL client, that when closed, terminates your connection.

This is great

[Pan T. Hose]

This is great but wouldn't it mean Mozilla (and by extention Linux) could recieve wide reconition in mainstream (read: stupid people) culture, of the inferior alternative to proprietary software? I hope I'm wrong here but we all have to be really careful before we jump to premature conclusions. Never underestimate the power of proprietary marketing.

Re:This is great

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you mean by proprietary marketing? Also mainstream doesn't have to mean stupid people.

Not necessarily a bad idea

[GoldMace]

Well, that is for unformed users that don't know anything about the Netscape name

However, for those that do:
if they ever used:
Netscape 4: no way they'll use this service
Netscape 5: doesn't really exist
Netscape 6(sorry Mozilla fans): no way they'll use this service, too slow
Netscape 7(sorry Mozilla fans): no way they'll use this service, too slow

OTOH
Netscape 2: Gold-no pun intended- the best browser of it's time
Netscape 3: Gold-no pun intended- the best browser of it's time

Why O Why did the Mozilla/Netscape people try to build the Mozilla off of the open sourced Netscape 4.x, had they built it off of the last good Netscape, 3.x, they wouldn't have even lost the browser war...hell if they even an had made a 3.x skin for mozilla they might have even won(Classic? and Modern are ugly)

Bring back Netscape 3.x gold...w/ javascript improvements...

Tech support

[Anonymous Coward]

Tech support: No, you can't use IE with this ISP, this is Netscape.

Time Warner AOL has removed AOL from ITS name

[wolverine1999]

Time Warner AOL has now removed AOL from it's name, so as to be less 'confusing'.

Of course it doesn't care about confusion generated from the use of the 'netscape' name...

Huh?

[eye69]

I read "disconnected" instead of "discounted". Then again, that's something that AOL would probably be able to come up with...

You are technically correct

[Pan T. Hose]

What do you mean by proprietary marketing?

I mean the literal sense. No pun intended.

Also mainstream doesn't have to mean stupid people.

Unfortunately it does more often than not.

"Netscape"

[Anonymous Coward]

I find this very ironic. You will have to use IE
to use "netscape"