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Fedora Core 1 Released
EvilAlien writes "The Fedora Project has released Fedora Core 1, aka Yarrow. The release was expected on November 3rd, but was briefly delayed. The release notes has quite a bit of good detail, and is worth checking out for any preliminary questions you may have. Download options include BitTorrent in addition to the traditional collection of FTP mirrors."
~~~
-where can I buy a boxed set of it? I prefer the convenience of pressed CDs..
Usually, I'd just expect some vague headline, like "Fedora Core released", but our editors have gone ABOVE AND BEYOND the call of duty and attached a brief synopsis of what Fedora is and why this is an important news item. I'm glad they didn't just say "Fedora released" and call it that.
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
Bittorrent Link
Alternatively:i so.torrent
btdownloadcurses.py --max_upload_rate 350 --url http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/yarrow-binary-i386-
A few installation screenshots
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
People make fun of Debian for being "politically pure" and slow to update . . . but it may be the last one left standing in the end.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
I hear the desktop is pretty bad. I'll just stick with windows :)
The .torrent links are avaliable here:
http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/
SuDZ
seem to trust anyone who goes by the handle EvilAlien. What's up with that?
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
Good, solid base of stable kernel, glibc, gcc and XFree86 releases. Not sure how the 8-month no-backport security fix policy is going to work though; it could be a right shambles having to update all sorts of stuff and dependencies just because of hole in nano requires upgrading to the latest version etc.
Still, looks like RH's first-rate QA has been put into place (unlike in Mandrake), and hopefully they'll keep that up as the community gets more involved.
M
And the most amazing feature of Fedora? The fact that it's bigger than our Sun! I mean, what the *7#$ is on those 3 CDs?! Oh wait, let me guess. In true RedHat fashion, we have 3 FTP server, 7 email servers, 300 email readers, 20 instant messenger, 5 web browser, 3 versions of xBill, several hundred programs that sound like they do something interesting but don't, and 1 kitchen sink.
I mean really, what ever happened to "core system" vs. "extra software"?
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
64 MB minimum for text mode, 192 minimum for graphical? When did we get so bloated? It looks like we're catching up to MS with an OS that has always had efficiency of resources as a primary strength. What gives?
I feel they give better all-around coverage, and match my moods better.
I looked around the website and they don't really explain how important a priority stability is.
/directly/ used by RedHat, or is there a "polishing" step?
They do have a QA "project", but they also say they want to "Be on the leading edge of open source technology..."
I take it we're not talking OpenBSD/Debian-stable level of reliability. That's fine. But what's the goal? Will this stuff be
-... ---
We're tired, we're droopy
We're all a little loopy
A Fedora Core Test Release
Is invading your PC!
New features - interesting!
The code could use some testing
That's why we are requesting
new bug reports quickly!
On our ftp site is the place where you will see
The stuff that we've been working on since 1993!
We're tired, we're droopy
We're all a little loopy
It's a Fedora Core Test Release
Come and join the fun!
-- http://lwn.net/Articles/50994/
Does he know Betty and Barney Hill?
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
this is a funny story. I have a new asus motherboard with firewire built in. I was running windows (just to test the hardware, mind you..) and then finally got around to trying to install linux on a separate hard disk.
;)
linux (redhat 6.x and latest gentoo) and even freebsd refused to install! huh? never saw THAT happen before.
well, turns out that I had my firewire camera (not a real camera but a canopus firwire media bridge that looks like a FW camera) connected and all I can think of is that the funny asus bios considered THAT a 'disk' and when linux and bsd scanned the 'installable devices' via a probe, it found the camera device but wasn't smart enough to know it wasn't a disk/storage device. so the install hung hard.
removing the firewire cable allowed the installs to continue (all of them).
the very thought of linux or bsd trying to install itself on a VIDEO CAMERA just makes me laugh. imagine the design issues of that - when the system boots up, does it display titles on the video camera eyepiece? if it fscks, does it have to rewind the tape often? does it have the 1024 cylinder limit if you boot from mini-DV?
just kinda funny, I guess. the new motherboard bios' are trying to abstract the media type and say 'disks are disks, no matter if ide or scsi or firewire'. ha!
The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may eventually make its way into Red Hat products.
Hmmm, what does that remind me of?
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
You're not allowed to post a positive story about RedShat until we do!
mind you, i'm switching to gentoo... so take what i say with a grain (block) of salt.
2 1337 4 u!
Ha! I just booted a Gentoo system with 16MB RAM, and it had 2MB left for disk cache! I had to bring my roommate down to 64MB on her Gentoo/KDE3 machine for a few days while selling memory/ordering new stuff and she was fine, just noted that it was a bit laggier than her usual 512MB.
I did it just for shits and giggles, but building your own system from a core set of utilities can really produce a much more streamlined experience. I've always felt that the RPM-based distros were pretty bloaty, the maintainers essentially turn 'everything' on because they know someone will ask. I on the other hand don't want KDE support in WindowMaker or XMMS, or crypto and PERL in GAIM, so I turn it off.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
It's because there aren't enough personal users around to pay for their costs.
Oh sure, so now RedHat is evil because they're not willing to lose money on a product that you can download for free? If MS or Trolltech or anybody else charges money, it's suddenly allright? Go figure.
Although this was silly of me in a certain sense, I originally interpreted "download options include bittorrent and..." to mean that the web browser in this release would include a bittorrent client. And then the obvious occurred to me that they just meant you could use torrents to download the iso. But really... It would be VERY nice to have an integrated torrent client. Mozilla Firebird people, are you listening? Just because you're the best browser around doesn't mean you shouldn't implement this. :)
More importantly, can you imagine a beowulf cluster of these things?
Sorry, the devil made me do it
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
to debian from RH8/9 servers. At the risk of inviting religous controversy, if I'm going to use a non-sponsored distro, I'd rather use one with more of a proven record as a successful community driven project.
Plus, let's face it, apt-get is apt-goodness.
A little off topic.. but here goes: Does anyone know if there's a bittorent client that supports proxies (either http or socks)?
That's really cool, and more useful than it sounds... I was looking for just this feature several months ago when installing RH on a laptop whose video card was supported by XFree but for some reason wouldn't work with the graphical installer. (Tweaks were required for the configuration file.) I know there's a text-based installer as well, but it's so much easier to select packages on the GUI install. It sounds like this will be a nice successor to RH 9.
.sig: file not found
My interpretation of their move is this:
1. They weren't making money on commercial RedHat releases. There are a few zealots like myself that run down to CompUSA (or whatever) to grab the latest release when it hits the shelves, but it was mostly to show our support for the company.
2. There is a lot of profit to be made in "support" in boxed product sales, and the enormous expense of Windows server licenses validate this proposition. They just need to be priced considerably below Windows support levels to compete.
3. Most desktop users want a bleeding-edge distribution so they can run the latest games and apps, and RedHat didn't want the tech support headaches and expense.
I think they just looked around at the playing field, saw that they could do little or nothing to prevent people from repackaging their product and selling it for a couple of bucks a CD, saw the numbers from their standard box sales versus the impressive revenue from comparatively few Enterprise Linux sales, and said "screw it, it's not worth our money to try to sell what everybody gets for free anyway".
Sad fact of life, that. Not enough freaks like me that like to buy the boxed set, I guess.
But I'm excited that Fedora is coming out with a release hot on the heels of the end-of-life announcements on RedHat boxed products. I think they'll find that the flexibility afforded them by a more open development model for their distribution, ala Mozilla.org, will help keep their server products competitive and "feed" the Advanced Server distribution with good ideas.
It remains to be seen how well it will take off, though... an awful lot of "mindshare" of hard-core Linux geeks is already invested in other distributions. As for me, I think they are doing it right, and although I'm certain they'll be off for 4-6 months of a rocky start, within a year they'll have a pretty solid volunteer contribution effort and a distribution that finally keeps up with cutting-edge features of other distributions. They've been behind the curve a long time (ugh "up2date" sucked vs. apt-get upgrade) on keeping their distro fresh; it is nice to see they've moved to a method that, perhaps, can keep it more current.
I wonder how they plan to handle RHCE's? I plan on taking the exam as soon as I finish reviewing for it, but I can't help but wonder if this move to Fedora on the desktop means that soon-to-be prospective RHCE's will no longer be able to just download the latest Redhat release and go, or if they'll need some special "student edition" of their Enterprise Linux product?
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
You don't honestly expect me to "upgrade" from Linux 9.0 to Linux 1.0 do you? At this rate we'll never catch Windows 2000.
What has *science* done?!? -- Dr. Weird (ATHF)
according to a "study" done at princeton, We may have to give up project planning, quality control, coding standards, accountability, version control, and support with open source. so, you see, RH could not possible have any QA, much less quality QA
i sell illegal drugs
No, its because I placed my trust in that company and they failed me. The people that helped build that company are being fucked right up the ass, and that's what I don't like. It has nothing to do with money. In fact, I pay for plenty of Linux software, I bought a few Linux games and I bought Crossover. And nobody said they are evil, they just suck for cutting us off. Evil would be if they started hiring temp employees, and using overseas labor, things like that.
Possibly, but personal users have NEVER been the ones to pay for costs. It's always been the corporate users. So, keeping support around for all users, personal or corporate should have at least been put on the table for consideration. MS even does per incident support for Regular Joe users, fergodssakes. The difference now is Regular Joe user is now going to pay $179 for his OS, instead of $49 to get the same level of support.
Look at the facts:
Support for Redhat 9 is good through April 2004.
You can download Fedora for free. Fedora has been specifically packaged to make 3rd party distribution easy, and looks like it's going to include all of the functionality of old redhat+up2date for free.
The new enterprise products have guaranteed 5-year support cycles. THIS IS HUGE. The low end, desktop-oriented enterprise workstation offering is 179$, including 1yr up2date support.
All of Redhat's software is still GPL.
I don't see what the anti-redhat has against one of their best neighbors and diplomats to the outside world.
Is Red Hat now like Apple, with a free/open community source base, plus an "embraced and extended" closed source base "derived" from it? Apple has Darwin, which absorbs much developer interest, and OSX, which benefits from the free R&D in the extremely similar Darwin codebase. Does Red Hat's Fedora correspond to Darwin, with their Enterprise Linux corresponding to OSX?
--
make install -not war
I agree, but now that Novell owns SuSE, we'll see how long that lasts. I'm kinda wierded out by the fact that SuSE is now going to be heavy on Gnome and Mono. Don't get me wrong, Gnome is cool, but I don't think Mono is a good idea. Just wait until Linux becomes all dependant on Mono, and Microshit decides that is the perfect time to sue and shut it all down.
Best thing for the linux community? Good, maybe, but not best. After all, SCO lives ...
Can't anyone on /. read? RedHat has simply said that they are not chasing the CONSUMER desktop for the time being. If you read the articles and if you go to RedHat's site, you will see that they are still quite interested in *corporate and business* desktops, where the application base is more controlled and limited, and there generally is not the need to support every consumer USB widget under the sun. Their "Enterprise Linux" offerings have versions tailored for both servers *and* (corporate) desktops.
Additionally, for individuals and small companies who want to do their own support, there is still Fedora, but it will have a shorter support lifetime.
I just installed the last beta/release candidate/whatever last night, using the ~4MB boot.iso image available in the "images" directory of the distribution. I was able to install over FTP without any problems. Just a heads up for those who don't want to download between 1 and 3 CD's.
I believe a Linux distro of completely free software is one of the goals of Debian.
;-)
As for the difference between the different distros, they tend to put stuff in different places, they have different installers, and tend to include different (if overlapping) package choices. Each company also usually has its own method of pkg management (up2date for red hat, Yast for suse, apt-get for debian, etc).
Please just don't ask which one is the best, that is a religious flame-war waiting to happen
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
This is RedHat 10. I don't have any idea WHY they didn't just call it RedHat 10 and keep the community involvement. It is clearly a descendent of RH 9, and it supports automatic upgrades from earlier releases of RedHat automatically.
Get rid of everything Micro and Soft: Buy Viagra and/or Linux
Don't click on this. It is one of those gross site links.
Check out this for more details.
There's also a lot of extras at Freshrpms (although not updated for Yarrow yet).
> No. Real masters use FreeBSD, Solaris and other real operating platforms.
Dude, your heart's in the right place, but you need to work on your language. Explicitly insulting people is not usually appreciated, and tends to get you the -1 Troll you've been modded to. Watch what happens when we remove your ending insults:
No. Real masters use FreeBSD, Solaris and other real operating platforms.
Linux is a kiddie OS for the kids to pretend they can use UNIX. Those getting paid to provide UNIX services to clients and companies continue to get paid and watch these kids.
That would have gotten a +5 Insightful.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I looked around the website and they don't really explain how important a priority stability is. They do have a QA "project", but they also say they want to "Be on the leading edge of open source technology..."
I take it we're not talking OpenBSD/Debian-stable level of reliability. That's fine. But what's the goal? Will this stuff be /directly/ used by RedHat, or is there a "polishing" step?
If you are talking about this stuff ending up in RH Advanced Server, then yes, this will be heavily polished before release.
If you are talking about RH Linux 10, well, that won't be happening. This is the new world right here.
Speaking as someone who runs Mandrake Cooker (someone pick up that reader who just fainted) stability concerns really don't worry me too much as I can hack the problems as they occur :-) However, this stuff has gone through basic Redhat QA so it can be assumed that it won't eat your dog or sleep with your wife :-)
This is a distribution for the release early, release often crowd. The primary release (which this is) should be treated as being a reasonable base to build on. Once you hook up the apt-get or yum tools to the respective repositories, upgrading broken packages should be easy enough. Fedora will be making an appearance on my laptop in the next week or so - time will tell whether Fedora is stable enough. If you are nervous about being an early adopter, sit back and watch the forums, newsgroups and mailing lists for show stoppers that might hit your configuration.
I'm happy to see Fedora hit the streets. I've been running RH 8.0 on this laptop for a while now and I miss the absolute bleeding edge that the Mandrake Cooker tree gives me. Running Fedora on this laptop will allow me to track the latest stable release series. Mandrake Cooker allows me to track the latest developer releases on my desktop box.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
The difference is that there isn't a RedHat Linux anymore (or won't be soon).
Strictly speaking, none of the things you listed are "necessary".
sic transit gloria mundi
i really need this. does anyone know if they patched it into the kernel?
I'm not expecting them to be a Non-Profit. I'd just expect them to do more to give shit back, rather than cutting me and all my RedHat servers off at the knees. Sure my servers don't run thier "enterprise" software, but they're not enterprise servers either. As a small business myself, I know how hard it can be to support everyone. But once you make a promise to people you can't just go and take it back. If I did something like that to my clients, they'd fire me so fast, and hire someone else. Maybe I expected too much from them.
Red Hat have always had a bit of a reputation for lousing up the release process of a distribution when it comes to getting mirrors ready before the release.
Fedora has taken this to new and astounding heights. I got the notification that Fedora was ready to mirror 31 minutes before the supposed official release time. The download.fedora.redhat.com name wasn't in the DNS. The permissions on the repository prvented us rsyncing, and there were no pre-release torrents in place.
So at release time there were no mirrors and no torrents available. Worse, the mirror list their download page points to are the old Red Hat mirrors which use a different directory heirarchy to the new Fedora tree, so those links are both wrong and to machines that don't have the damn software.
Its now 4.5 hours after release time. I have had a torrent client set running for most of that time (as soon as I got a torrent URL), and the torrents have not completed. The immediate throwing open of the release to the general public means I can't get rsync access to the main site. So my mirror, and I guess many other are not anywhere near synced.
Frankly I'm pissed off and will probably not bother to mirror in future.
You can (or at least are supposed to be able to) drag and drop fonts into nautilus and it's supposed to install...
My other sig is an import.
The new enterprise products have guaranteed 5-year support cycles. THIS IS HUGE. The low end, desktop-oriented enterprise workstation offering is 179$, including 1yr up2date support.
So, if I want to practice up for the RHCE exam, can I use Fedora, or will I have to shell out the $179? If the answer is $179, I think that Redhat is making a bit of a mistake. Having lots of certified people out there is a good thing for Redhat: it lets them tell PHBs that there won't be any trouble finding competent people to deal with those expensive Enterprise systems they're trying to sell.
Yes, the tests aren't cheap already, but adding to the cost isn't the way to increase the number of people with Redhat certification.
See what I've been reading.
where can I buy a boxed set of it? I prefer the convenience of pressed CDs.
From the Fedora FAQ
You're right, actually. However, on NT you're completely screwed as Microsoft are the only ones who can supply security fixes etc. In Red Hat's case you could patch diff the files from a SRPM or someting like that, and I guess it's possible that someone other than Red Hat can supply newer RPMs you could upgrade with.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Of course no one here reads. They're too busy making knee-jerk bullshit statements like "I'll recommend anything but RedHat now" and "RedHat has sold out".
/. after all. If you're not part of their socialist utopian software dream, your're part of the problem.
This is
I think that DvD's are becoming popular enough that perhaps big distros will be available on the larger media format as well. If I had to choose from >2 CD's or a DVD for a slightly higher price, I'd go for DVD.
Oh, and "core system" vs "extra software" went out the window when the GUI came around in popularity and people started biatching "how come software X isn't here, bah!"
I'd say that if you were a previous RedHat user, Fedora's multiple CD's shouldn't bother you, and you can always stick with Debian (my pref) or whatever you otherwise use.
So?
Occam is inherently parallel, and has very fast thread switching from the ground up. In short, picture MxN threading over a variable-sized heterogenius cluster, complete with automatic thread migration.
That's what I would call a seriously powerful OS.
(Not that I'll stop using Linux. Or OpenBSD. Or FreeBSD. Or Plan 9. Or BeOS. Or any of the other OS' I currently have. The OSKit looks nice, too. There's a lot out there that is fascinating, and limiting myself to only one OS, with only one perspective on how things can be done, seems so... insane!)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
wget -qO - kungfunix.net/fatality|sed -n '1!G;h;$p'
lynx -dump perfidious.org/eraymond|sed -n '1!G;h;$p'|sed '/\n/!G;s/\(.\)\(.*\n\)/&\2\1/;//D;s/.//'
l ike fear
MoFscker
a) Memory is not quite so cheap in bulk. Say if you have several workstations you want to install on
b) Hardware can limit RAM, and some people do still use old hardware, or crappy mobo's with limited RAM capabilities (I've seen P2/P3's that are 512MB limited)
I think I can answer you that.
Fedora Core is the best Redhat so far, I'm using it flawlesly on my notebook since beta2.
Being in bussiness of which important part is Linux on desktop, I'm really happy with this decision. While normal distro is cool for normal user, it's not so good for corporate user.
Reasons:
1. Don't need 5 programs fo each need, I need one, and one that works.
2. Don't need such urge on being up2date with everything
3. I want terrily tested and really working stable distro
4. Give me a clean distro and I'm filling only the gaps that don't suit me or the gaps that are not covered
As home user:
1. I want to test software to decide which one is better
2. If let's say Gnome 2.6 would be today, today would be the day I would be installing it, some softwares I keep daily with cvs
3. I want everything
4. Read 3, I have everything
DIfferences between Fedora Core and Readhat WS Professional are the same as I stated with previous descriptions.
But as here Fedora Core is just a test bed for Redhat WS (difference is as follows, al features are tested in Fedora before they are implemented in WS, Fedora Core is accessible for users to interact but WS isn't, Fedora will support outside package repository, WS won't), everything goes as I want, I get one fresh and up2date and one stable for the price of one.
Why should you run this? Because people that were bitchin over Debian being more_free, well this Redhat is practically the same but with Redhat support, because developers are still working on Fedora, hell they test there things for WS, so I doubt that Redhat would stop working on Fedeora.
Killing their desktop? No, they just extended it to likes of more people
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
Way back when, there was really no time set on how long support for a release would last. It was just 'a long time'. About a year ago, RedHat said of their support that they had a new policy:
Redhat up to 7.3's support would end on December 31, 2003. (In the same announcement, they closed off support for some even older releases like the 6.x series, giving 6.3 support for just a little longer).
Further, any new release would be supported for a minimum of 1 year, but with no guaruntee of longer.
So, yesterday, with the Fedora release imminent, they said exactly the same thing; all the Redhat releases were getting their one year of update support, and being cut off -- exactly what they said months and months ago.
I procrastinated too and am screwed right about now - I've got a collection of 7.1 servers I'm going to have to do something about. But that's my fault, not RedHat's. They said up front what their support policy would be. If I really want the long term support, Redhat's enterprise offerings will do five years. That may well be where I'm headed next.
If you're using it as a desktop, go with the unstable branch - it's really not that unstable. It hasn't broken apart on me yet. And you don't have to update every day either, just do it once a week or something like that, and it'll be run smooth for ya.
"testing/unstable" in Debians book means the same as "stable" in Red Hat's book - that's my experience, either.
And the stable branch? Well that's as rock solid as you can get a Linux distro. Works wonders as a server. But hey, I'd say using the testing branch on servers is not out of the question.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
BitTorrent is good enough for distributing copies of previous Redhat ISOs and the current Fedora ISOs, but a BitTorrent package still isn't part of the distribution? It should be standard to install it along with Mozilla, and to have it properly configured and associated with the appropriate MIME types.
Installing BitTorrent on Redhat Linux isn't difficult, but it isn't fully automatic either.
Yes, YOU CAN fonts:
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
"Today, Microsoft announced that there new OS release, codenamed 'Longhorn', will be named Microsoft Infinity. In other OS news, Linux kernel Infinity+1 was released. Nya nya nya nya, nya nya!"
Wtf, I meant to post this in reply to comment 7400899, which was:
You don't honestly expect me to "upgrade" from Linux 9.0 to Linux 1.0 do you? At this rate we'll never catch Windows 2000.
Have you quit beating your wife?
RH 10 == FC 1
Red Hat still puts resources into Fedora.
Red Hat still puts QA into Fedora (in fact they caught flack for delaying it).
Red Hat opened up the development to outsiders through Fedora.
Red Hat changed the products name into something everyone can use and sell.
We get a more open, supported, release often OS.
So far this sounds great. In the coming months we will see if this really is a win/win.
Actually, I would urge them differently.
1. Redhat has given great gift to the community, but ass-for-brains like you wouldn't notice that, just because you react without actually reading what project is
2. Redhat still has Redhat Enteprise WS, which is really great desktop, and as it looks it's getting on a professional corporate level, which is very very nice
3. RH9 was friendly enough
Yeah, right Suse (by the way Suse is the only one I plan to try in future, at least now that Novell had aquired it along with Ximian, that might really be interesting) and Lycoris being desktop friendly, I'm a gnome use for god sake. Install gnome manually, yeah, right, like I care.
Mandrake, as long as distro doesn't work as polished as Redhat or as MDK8 was, no way.
Ark & JAMD, yeah right what will I be? user #3???
Gentoo, you're right, it takes ages to install yes, and some of us lives depend on computers so we don't have ages.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
If you all want so bad that Linux ever beats windows, then quit whining or complaining...what RH does is good. It's about time some major distro takes the big step.
i.e.: If you ever want software companies to write stable software for your pc, you need standardisation. Not libs that change every five seconds. (Ok, maybe not when doing good reverse compatibility of the libs or static linking).
Linux will always stay the geeky OS until someone sets a standard. Don't want a standard? Fine..go use debian or gentoo. They're all good at reinventing the wheel.
Want to compete with a real Desktop OS? Then beat it at where it is best, it's stability (seriously, everybody keeps whining how unstable windows is...linux is stable textbased yeah..but the X-apps have their issues.), secondly: ease of use and very important its popularity by the software and hardware companies.
Go Redhat.
PS: buying a car costs money, food costs money, a descent OS may cost money. There are programmers that like to live of doing what they're good at and love to do.
Hidden in the release notes:
- The input of non-ASCII characters from the system console is not possible; only graphical applications support the input of these characters.
If I understand this correctly it means a jump back of several years with the inability to write accented letters in the console.
In other words: useless crap in which you cannot even write 3 words in a row (except in English of course)
Can that be true?
"Fedora released. Imagine Beowulf of this."
Personally, I think that Fedora is a good idea.
- I always liked Red Hat, but found their release schedule aggravatingly long, and when the products came out, slow to release updates.
- I like the Red Hat systems since 8.0, on a whole. I've been using Red Hat since 4.0, and it wasn't until 8.0 that it became a sufficiently stable, worthwhile distro, IMO.
So, I think that Fedora will continue to build -- and, most importantly improve upon -- Red Hat's strengths. And if Red Hat tanks, who cares? It's a community-based system that would still keep ticking.
Redhat! Can't wait to load up this OS that looks just like redhat... except I don't see any pictures of albinos in a redhat... and I dont see the name redhat anywhere... Of course this is being backed by a company that,
... nowhere to be seen. Oh wait they are on the server computers now, silly me. The desktop is now just being called Phedora, no no..Phidora..Fhedora?
The Boston Globe: Red Hat CEO puts Linux in a position to challenge Microsoft's dominance October 16, 2003
Was only a couple of weeks ago being compared to our overlords of the computer world. And now...they...are
Bleh, just like others in these forums, if your intrestead in linux, use a real distribution. Cause we all know, even though there isn't any pictures of hats in this one, its the same one that surely isn't good enough for our desktops.
Yeah, I have lost all my love for RH. Its one thing to just quit at something you've been doing for the past 11 years, and even a greater slap to say that the OS I was using was obviously not good enough for...you know... what I was supposedly not doing as good as windows. or something...
It's never too late to change your mind. Debian is fairly gung-ho on the idea of multiple maintainers for packages, which makes for a reasonable entry point for folks from other distributions to join the fun. Another good hook is Debian's Testing distribution. The basic idea is to have a usable software collection with a time granularity between Unstable (daily) and Stable (roughly two year cycle). Testing doesn't currently get the tons of programmer nourishment it so richly deserves, and instead relies on automated QA programs and a few gallant human efforts. With some additional manpower, this would be a great layer in the distribution/maintenance system for something like Fedora to emerge.
Ah, no more RH. Well it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I mean Readhat has been THE word people outside of the community assoicate with Linux Distro. ManRake has its name recognition too but most new Linux users still start on Readhat, this is a huge oppertunity for Slackware and Debian to PICKUP MARKET SHARE. Lets hope my good old distro of choice capitializes and I would be happy to see debian grow as well.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Had trouble downloading any of the other distributions since RH came out with their announcement?
I've had a devil of a time downloading Slackware 9.1 the last couple of nights. Slow downloads or "too many people connected now" errors. I finally ended up using jigdo to snag a "cutting edge" Debian distro, but have (thus far) wasted two DVD's trying to get it to work. (Yeah, I know, they warned me. But still...) Getting errors about glibc...
Equals Modern system requirements. Want to run Gnome with all the good GUI stuff along with Open Office etc?
Why are you surprised. It isn't bloat its functionality. If you want to blame someone blame the people who write Gnome and KDE. Don't blame Fedora for being realistic and providing real system requirements. It's better than saying 128MB required for the GUI and then pissing everyone off because it runs slow as shit if you try to only use 128MB.
If you have an old machine that has less than 192MB then use something less demanding its as simple as that.
It's 2003, you can't be complaining because an OS requires 256MB to work right.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
It's RH 10 beta, in a sense. (Actually, it's primarily RH 9.1 Beta code...)
I saw it includes the best Linux MP3 player available, ie rhythmbox. Is it possible to play MP3's out of the box now? Or do you still have to download an addon mp3 package? Either way I'm REALLY happy to see this app added. About time a linux distro had a good full featured MP3/music management app built-in.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
This is a full blown stable 1.0 release, it appears... not even a 9.1 release.
How many of you whiners who have the temerity to bitch about something other people are making and giving away actually bought a shrinkwrapped copy of Red Hat?
Unless you're a stockholder, RedHat owes you squat. If you are a stockholder, RedHat has a moral responsibility to make a profit and pay you dividends.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
The real reason is that Linux sometimes chokes on devices that aren't recognized, especially Firewire and USB. I have a USB VoIP handset that locks up Mandrake if I leave it plugged in.
Unless you have some reason to believe your device emulates a hard drive, it probably doesn't. It's probably just the hardware autodetection that is causing the kernel to lock-up.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Fedora can't be bad... as a community project with corporate backing, this is a great way for any good OSS developments to gain approval of the mainstream.
Why didn't RedHat give Lindows a plug at least? At least they've actually tried to make a decent competitor to Windows.
http://www.geocities.com/cdsixfour/toberemoved/ lindows.jpg
If only Lindows wouldn't hit below the belt!
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
I wonder if Ximian D2 will support Fedora Core 1..
- http://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/rhce_faq.ht
m l#rhel3_rhce
for more info.All of Red Hat's source code is still open and they have no plans to change this. All of the source for RHEL is available on their FTP site.
There are even other sites out there that have instructions on how to use the source to build your own binary install.
If you want you can strip everything out or pick a different distro. I hacked up a slackware kernel and got it running on a 1M DiskOnChip with a 386 processor and 512K ram!! Even got nano on it :)
Does anyone know if Fedora includes things like mp3 playback by default with xmms? Or DVD (w/o deCSS obviously) and divX playback by default via xine or mplayer? Since this is no longer a commercial distribution and is more open wrt contributions, I thought that maybe there aren't any more legal problems. This is one of the key things stopping me from using RedHat in the past. I simply don't want to have download and compile xine or mplayer by myself (this has something to do with the fact that I usually suck at compiling and have never even managed to get KDE themes to compile properly. If it's just ./configure, make, make install I can do it, but something *always* goes wrong).
1. "Decopile" all Windows XP files.
2. Spend years transfroming it into source.
3. Spend years writing multiple kernels.
4. Release it for free.
5. Get your pants sued off by Microsoft for violating their license.
6. Release a tell-all book from debtors' prison.
7. Profit!!!
I don't quite know how bittorrent works, but I've installed it today (just for this purpose) and the client can't seem to connect to the "tracker". I can download the .torrent file easily enough, but the client fails consistantly.
Is there a possible mirror/secondary tracker available that anyone knows about? It seems that the tracker becomes a single point of failure in an otherwise distributed system...
The error is "connection refused", so it seems like the tracker's host is down. Note that I have opened the necessary ports (6881 - 6999)...
In all, it looks like an updated RedHat 9 to me, but since I've not yet tried anything since 7.3, I figured it'd make a good second Linux box (my main Linux box runs RedHat 6.2, heavily modified/upgraded, but with no GUI).
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
What moron modded this up?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
the very thought of linux or bsd trying to install itself on a VIDEO CAMERA just makes me laugh.
Linux has finally become sentient. It decided that if everybody and his brother wants to install it on a video GAME, then a video CAMERA would be the next logical step. It's just trying to be helpful and save you some time.
The reason I got into Linux in the first place was to be able to build systems independant of any large vendor that could make strategic changes that force me to change what Im doing. Good on RedHat, Novell, IBM and SuSE I say, but I still like my independence .. so its time to start looking at alternative distros.
.. so Im downloading FC1 in the background to try these out.
.. a little distro from Austria that comes in 2 flavours - A Server Optimized one and a Desktop optimized one.
.. I like it.
/etc/rc.d. Boot times are quite a bit quicker than the traditional RH approach.
l l, or a standard desktop with KDE/OO/MozillaFirebird/Cups/MPlayer, then its worth the 10 minutes of your time to load onto your machine and have a play. I think that it took me more than 10 minutes just to read & digest the emerge man page when playing with Gentoo.
Im building a server and a couple of workstations at the moment
Did a quick install of Gentoo - liked that, but the install had some major problems that are going to take some time to resolve (Cannot get Apache/PHP/MySQL working from GRP with no net access)
In the meantime, Ive just installed SoL (http://www.sol-linux.com)
Nice little package - it has a single monster tarball that it simply untars onto your disk, asks a couple of simple questions (root passwd, network card type, SW Raid setup, ip address, list of services required at boot time), and bang - 5 minutes and you are done. No silly hardware probing during the install, so it does require that you know what sort of hardware you are installing on.
Nice - 5 minutes after boot, I have a complete i686 optimized server with 2.4.20 kernel, sitting on a JFS filesystem
Also, uses a completely different XML driven init system which is very easy to hack - everything in the 1 file, and no more symlink madness in
If you just want to roll out a standard server with Apache/PHP/MySQL/PostgreSQL/Samba/Cups/FTP/Firewa
I promise to get deeper into Gentoo when time permits, but for now Im going to throw SoL into a production environment.
if you are burning prerelease software why not use CDRW media. I mean CDR media is dirt cheap anyway, but if you are so concerned about wasting them just use CDRW.
I'm thinking, rather than the money going to RedHat now, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union might both be really good candidates for my dollars. The only unfortunate thing from where I sit is that when I bought a boxed RedHat set, I'd have some CD's and a nifty package to add to my collection.
:)
EFF: For $120 I'd get a sticker, a T-shirt, a hat, and twelve months to use an anonymizing proxy.
ACLU: For that same $120, I get, erm, a card for twenty bucks that says I'm a member, and a tax-deductible contribution of $100 to the ACLU Foundation.
The EFF sounds much better from the "cool goodies" standpoint. Then again, I could give $20 to the ACLU for a card, and $100 to the EFF for the goodies
I dunno, tough choices all around. Maybe I'll just blow another $120 on a Transgaming subscription that I won't use because it doesn't support the only game I boot to Windows to play...
Matthew P. Barnson
I learn what I think when I read what I write
Looks like troll.... Smells like troll....
Man, am I glad I didn't step in it!
Was more concerned with the fact that here in Australia, broadband is not that fast, nor cheap.
Mostly the time spent waiting for the downloads to complete.
am I the only one who thinks we are running short of good-sounding names? ..could anyone please make people at redh^H^H^Hwhatever it is called now change the names of their products? thanks!
do you think that windows would have been so successful if they called it "thypikes"?
(with all respect for all those called thypikes out there)
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
Forget your prozac today?
Go to the 'about Fedora' page and first read:
This immediately begs the question, what are the project objectives besides just development? Well, what they expect you to be able to do with Fedora is listed at the top of the page: Did you notice "Use the OS" was missing from that list? It's no accident. Their intent seems to be like Microsoft's shared source; for educational/experimental use only (and free labor).Now obviously it's still Open Source, and you can still do whatever you want with it, but they aren't aiming to keep a stable branch, and they aren't expecting people to use it for work other than developing/testing it, and they're going to be guiding the project as such, and potentially standing in the way of those that try to do otherwise, as they say on that page.
I've been looking into this and my options since I saw it announced, as I have several RedHat systems, one of which I only use as my answering machine (mgetty+voice), and I can't justify $800/yr for tasks like that just to not have them hacked. I also don't want to be constantly fixing/upgrading those kind of installations as I would with Fedora or other unstable branch distributions. It looks like I'll be converting to Debian's stable branch and selectively mixing in some things from Debian's other branches as needed. It seems to be the only option now for a stable distribution, but appears to be a pretty good one.
Nope, that would be FreeBSD.
The older I get, the less I like everyone else.
this a joke? you can't be for real.
I see some other posters making a case for trying Fedora and debating merits etc. etc. but I say forget it.
Red Hat and anything to do with Red Hat past present or future is all dead to me.
I haven't even got the knife all the way out of my back yet and when I do you can be sure I'll be completing my Mandrake installs at work.
The Red Hat I gew up with and loved, a champion of the OSS community, an icon I held up as an example of what's possible with OSS, is gone.
Crash and burn Red Hat. I mean it. You get no sympathy from me after a move like your last.
One to boot from and one with at comressed root file system. download the rest as needed.
What I usually use though is a net install CD. I can do a base install functioning system at under 300M.
Even if I set it up with all the bells and whistles, downloading everything, it takes me less time (includeing download time) than setting up a RH system, since I don't have to wade through so much dreck to get the packages I want.
Danny.
I have written over 900 book reviews
I've tried apt-rpm and I work with debian machines alot... sadly there is really no comparison. It kind of FEELS like apt, but it just isn't. Worse, there is no such thing as an apt-rpm equivelent of the security pool for debian stable. The comunity behind apt-rpm just doesn't have the logistic and strengh of debian community. I'm still waiting on some security updates to get into the apt-pools for some RH9 systems configured for apt-rpm.
Dang I'm just a debian zealot today
BTW - I would love to hear I'm wrong about a apt-rpm equivelent of debian security pool. Anyone know a good pool for that?
This was me in a weird moment. That would be ideal wouldn't it. Windows needs to be replaced with a complatible nix brotheren. It is the only way to get the masses to convert. Hey if I had the money, I would pay those nix coders to do it myself. I know I might sound crazy, maybe I am, I guess I am just an optimist. Admit it though, if it could be done, wouldn't that be great.
Bullshit, companies don't need money, they WANT money. I'm quite sick of everyone trying to make a million dollars for themselves and just saying "FUCK YOU" to everyone else. Look at the "Newman's Own" product line. Every bit of profit for the company goes to non-profit charities. Its the "Companies Need Money" line of thinking that causes jobs to be lost to cheap overseas labor. It's that line of thinking that causes Microsoft to go around getting legislation passed. Its that kind of thinking that got the DMCA passed. People are so fucking greedy anymore it makes me sick. I sacrifice money on my job daily to help out my clients. Sure, I could bring in all the MS software I want to my clients and charge them out the ass for my "support", but I don't. I set them up with cheap recycled computers that save them all tons of money and require almost zero maintainence. I'm also currently trying to get a free wireless network set up for my town to give people some free internet at my expense. I don't have to do this, hell I'm a business. But what the fuck do I need all my extra money for? Why don't the jerk-off RedHat execs take a lil cut for once in thier life, and sacrifice an SUV or two to pay a few developers to continue working on this?
In other words, Fedora 1 = Red Hat Linux 9.1, Fedora 2 = Red Hat Linux 10 w/ the 2.6 kernel, and so on. Smells like SunOS 5.7 = Solaris 2.7 = Solaris 7.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
an interesting point, though the coaster remark made it sounds like it was annoyance at wasted cds. How bad is broadband pricing in Austrailia exactly?
35:50:36 and I'll be done .
Phhhht.
And the mirrors are empty, found 2, 1 iso each.
I'm not real impressed with bit torrent so far, I usually get ~70KBPs down (512k cable, good>excellent provider (cableone.net)
I know this is true. I heard it from a guy on the internet.
thanks
i particularly enjoyed the ones of the new boot-up screen that defaults to hiding kernel and init script messages
Once you have the client, tell it to download the torrent:
http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/yarrow-sr
(mind the extra space in the URL thanks to Slashcode)
We mirrored the 1.8GB worth of 3 ISOs with BitTorrent in just under 2 hours with two T1s (Sprint & UUNET). During that time and the next hour we'd sent out 1.8GB as well. We'll continue to run BitTorrent until 7am PST when users would complain about the speed.
We're running an FTP mirror for IPv6 as well:
ftp://r2.ipv6.artoo.net/pub/fedora/linux/core/1/i
(mind the extra space in the URL)
However you get the ISOs, get the MD5SUM direct from RedHat and checksum those ISOs:(mind the extra space in the URL)MD5SUMs match (other than extra spaces thanks to slashcode), so the ISOs haven't been tampered with.
on rpm.livna.org, it's maintainted by the good old fedora.us team.
I didn't quite understand from their webpage. Is this a full installable distribution or just addon packages for RHL?
The reason Debian's installer is lagging is because once you get Debian installed you never have to do it again; apt-get makes upgrading too smooth.
If you're interested, help test it!
Installed the Bubblemon yet?
The name "Red Hat" is a trademark of Red Hat Inc. The software is copyrighted by many different authors and mostly licensed under the GPL.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Hope this helps,
-Yenya
--
While Linux is larger than Emacs, at least Linux has the excuse that it has to be. --Linus
I pay 65 USD for 384/128 with a fixed ip. There are certainly cheaper plans, but not with a fixed ip. Also 384 is my cap because the 50 year old phone lines wont support anything higher, and they (SBC) are not willing to lift a finger to improve line conditions. Cable wasn't available in my area until a few months ago, and even now if you want a fixed ip address they want several hundred a month for it.
Companies don't need money
So how exactly do you suggest they pay their empolyees? A pat on the back and "nice work, Jim" doesn't pay the bills...
Why don't the jerk-off RedHat execs take a lil cut for once in thier life, and sacrifice an SUV or two to pay a few developers to continue working on this?
What do you think they are doing? They have a whole bunch of programmers that they pay full time to improve RedHat. Some of those programmers work on stuff proprietary to RedHat, and some work on Open Source stuff. As a result there's a bunch of people working full-time on Open Source projects that otherwise would not be able to put in that amount of time. How is this a bad thing?
Debian and Fedora could easily end up merging.
Think of it: already Progeny are porting anaconda to Debian, and Fedora can do apt..
It won't be long before they're essentially the same thing, and maybe that is not a Bad Thing.
Sure, a hat store without much variety. :)
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Lets call this new distro "Distribution formerly known as RedHat", and everybody should be happy again..
Does a a Red Hat Enterprise Linux support contract allow me to use my debugged RHEL as a basis to revise the Fedora source code? Could a startup get an RHEL, a staff of system programmers and sysadmins, and turn around and provide support to smaller customers for a lower price than does Red Hat?
--
make install -not war
Well of course support can be added, just as it could in RH9 (and also RH8, which is where I think the MP3 limitation started). Thing is it's just another roadbump for newcomers to swerve around.
What promise you think they've taken back?
They've NEVER promised to keep supporting your old 7.0 box FOREVER, which seems to be what you're expecting.
RedHat has been running on losses for almost all of their existence, last year was the first time they made ANY profits at all ($305000, WOW, that's a lot - no wait, it isn't), and instantly ENVIOUS PRICKS like you are whining that they should give it all away.
These aren't people driving five Ferraris and living in fully automated houses, they barely make it even for godssake.
And yes, public companies NEED money, their shareholders demand it and if they can't make it, then it's game over.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
When will people stop repeating this foolishness?
Just having the APT command set ported is not enough. You could port the command set to Windows, but it wouldn't mean anything. The reason APT works so well with Debian is the _huge_ hierarchy of _well-organized_ packages that are (under stable) _all_ guaranteed to play well with each other.
If your distribution supports APT, but it's not the official method of installing packages, that's not as good as Debian. If your distribution's APT repositories have far fewer packages, that's not as good as Debian.
Mixing stable packages with unstable will not necessarily "break the system". It's just not 100% guaranteed to work with no problems. I keep mixed systems, because I want everything to be from Stable except for Mozilla and GAIM. Mozilla comes from testing, and GAIM is installed by using `apt-get -b source gaim`. On my home desktop, I've run unstable for years without problems.
You can't go back to stable if you completely upgrade to unstable, but how is that different from any other distribution? So this is not a point against Debian. You can, however, upgrade to the next "stable" while the system is running, and vast amounts of effort are made to ensure a smooth transition with as little reconfiguration as possible. We have woody servers that started out running slink (as did my sid desktop).
As for the Social Contract, that's what will keep your company out of legal hot water, and ensure that your Linux distributor stays out of hot water too (you do want someone to be around to provide security fixes, right?). You can clearly see when things are coming from non-free, and evaluate each case to make certain that the license will work for your situation. I'd much rather have this than, say, Red Hat violating the PINE license for years by distributing modified binaries.
The MPlayer folks themselves didn't want packages being made of their software until it was all under the GPL. Now that that issue has been resolved (aside from the plugins), packages can be freely made.
Yes, Debian runs on tons of architectures. In fact, Debian's XFree86 packages run on more architectures than the vanilla distribution of XFree86, which is why it sometimes takes them a bit longer to make it into unstable. The maintainer refuses to treat non-x86 archs like "second-class citizens", and I feel that this is absolutely the right attititude.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Oh man, this whole Red Hat/Fedora thing almost gave me a heart-attack the other day. Red Hat didn't tell me jack about their plans to "discontinue" (their words) the standard RH distro until I got the email below... at which point I thought I'd just wasted a LOT of time installing a new RH9 server and migrating numerous sites. They SAY they told me previously, but they didn't.
;)
FINALLY I learned about Fedora through a third party with no connection to RedHat. *SIGH* Methinks RH's PR droids REALLY need to do a better job spreading the word about big changes like this. I love RedHat, but man, killing the users by shock ain't a good way to make a profit.
Here's the email snippet:
------
Thank you for being a Red Hat Network customer.
This e-mail provides you with important information about the upcoming discontinuation of Red Hat Linux, and resources to assist you with your migration to another Red Hat solution.
As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December 31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release another product in the Red Hat Linux line.
With the recent announcement of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3, you'll find migrating to Enterprise Linux appealing. We understand
that transitioning to another Red Hat solution requires careful planning and implementation. We have created a migration plan for Red Hat Network
customers to help make the transition as simple and seamless as possible.
------
OK It's nice, it's pretty, and it's easy to use but why cripple the mutimedia aspect of it. I mean not a single video player comes installed with it. When you try and grab one from their repository, you find something interesting. Due to licensing issues you get no xine, no mplayer and no xmms mp3 support. Not only that but they warn you not to use any other repositories, I did to get mplayer but now I get stuck in some dependancy loop when I try to update.
ARGHHH. SO great it's nice and it works well, but with no video players yet. (Well Ogle does so at least I have my DVD's)
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.