Slashdot Mirror
Gamers Are Good People, Too
The Ticktockman writes "For years, gamers have been looked down upon by the media. We are said to be crazy lunatics who, given the chance, might decide to shoot up our school because of the games we play. Well, the game-themed webcomic Penny Arcade has had enough. They have now started a little something with the Seattle Children's Hospital called 'Child's Play', where gamers can buy videogame and non-game-related gifts for patients there. So if you feel like showing the world that gamers are compassionate people too, then head on over to the Penny Arcade 'Child's Play' page for more details."
"For years, gamers have been looked down upon by the media. We are said to be crazy lunatics who, given the chance, might decide to shoot up our school because of the games we play."
:)
Nah. Any group which spends an immense amount of time and money on playing lame video games will be too stupid to conjure up shootings.
A blog like any other.
Hopefully this will go well. It'll be even better if the media picks up what Penny Arcade is doing rather than running another badly written story about how little Tommy is inevitably going to kill lots of people if he even touches the box that Vice City is packed in.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
This a great idea, and I hope a lot of people give thier support, but remember that there are lots of other ways to help, too. My girlfriend's father was recently in the hospital for several months awaiting a heart transplant. He couldn't do any sort of physical activity, and so I brought him one of my old NES systems and a few games. He told me later that they helped him stay sane since he was stuck in his hospital room all day. He was tired of watching TV, but Mario and Link were great company!
It may not "News for Nerds," but it certainly is "Stuff that matters."
...called 'Child's Play'...
Now chucky be good..
Ever notice how the things you like are never harmful, and they are always misunderstood by society?
:-)
Whereas the things you don't like are unprecedented levels of chaos, evil and destruction never before witnessed in the history of man?
It doesn't matter what the issue is, or what side you're on: play this to your advantage and you'll win ever time
While I think that what Penny Arcade is doing is a wonderful attempt to change the public perception of gamers, I think that the core of the problem is that parents just aren't spending enough time with their kids. When the only interaction and respect that children get is through television, the Internet, and video games, what do you expect?
I'm certainly going to contribute to what the guys are doing with Child's Play, but what I'd really like to see is some sort of media backlash against the parents who are neglecting their duty to our future! Our children should be viewed as a responsibility, not a liability, and we should stop looking for scapegoats and step up to the plate!
Ironic that's a very violent thing to do to gamers...
ACMD eht detaloiv evah uoy
I suppose I could donate my copy of Dance Dance Revolution
Stuff
Well. . . you know. . . I'm slightly scared of the Cardboard Tube Ninja, isn't that pretty violent?
Penny Arcade is made by a couple of great guys, and they are doing a good thing here, everyone should applaud them for their work with the hospital; and for having such a great comic!
Thanks Guys!!
YOU'RE WINNER !
Another lame blog
Give em a Merry Christmas
Actually, I believe there are two kinds of gamers. One is the good gamer and the other is the "bad" if you want to call it that way. Look at those teeange gamers who brutally shoot innocent citizens - what do they all have in common??
1. They're all (if not most) high school drop-outs.
2. Their parents are no better than their kids. This is in terms of education, respect, and self control.
3. The violent/unsafe neighborhood they grow up in.
4. Their parents possesing guns and not safely storing them so their kids won't find it.
And WHO'S fault are those?? The GAME'S fault?? HELL NO!! I wonder when will kids wake up and realize that they have a future ahead of them and they need to take care of school subjects first. And only have games as a side-entertainment in spare time (or weekends and vacations). And parents need to stop blaming game makers just because they didn't take proper responsibility for their own children.
People out there, wake up. You have a brain so make use of it. Kids - make use of it for self control on education in school. Parents - make use of it to guide your kids to the positive direction.
I'm a 16 year old and am currently a high school Junior. I play games more than anything I do, but yet at the same time I can manage all my school work pretty well. It's all about management. Management and self-control.
http://www.palmzone.net
now this is nice and all, but i hardly think their latest strip is going to endear them to the "games are bad mmmmkay" crowd.
funny strip, though.
It might look like I'm standing motionless, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away
Next time a school, or anything is rampaged by a cardboard tube toating ninja, we'll know who to blame!!!
Penny Arcade is a fantastic comic!!!
YOU'RE WINNER !
Another lame blog
I'd love to submit an insightful post on why most people are able to differentiate between game violence and the real thing, but I've got to go clean my guns.
I'd like to see something like this elsewhere than Seattle as well, not that I have anything against Seattle. There are needy and worthy kids all over the world.
Hopefully, the media will see the results of generous geeks helping these kids and show our community in a positive light for a change. It's not as if we're not used to giving to good causes, in fact when we do donate to a cause it's more often than not politiically motivated to help out someone who has been scuppered by a huge corporation, **AA or the government. Remember Kevin, Dimitri & the 12 year old girl who was threatened by the RIAA?
I can't wait to see how this turns out.
Eventually something like this needs to exist with a charitable Trust status, so that it is tax deductable. For instance, here in the UK you can 'gift aid' any donatations to a charity and they can claim the income tax you paid on your donation back from the government, which is nice.
Umm... Too late, I say. By this last generation of game systems (PS2/Xbox) gaming became nearly mainstream. It's more widespread that it had ever been, and it's not mainly kids anymore, but adults. You can see this from the more mature themes of more and more games, and the very widespread advertisements for Mature/AdultsOnly-rated games.
Gaming is close to becomming as legit as home movie-watching is. It's big business now, and saying anything bad about gamers is just as suicidal as saying anything bad about white males.
This would have been a decent idea back in the Nintendo/SNES days, but now it's pointless.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
It might be good for gamers to throw benefit LAN bashes and tournaments... these might be a little easier to get on the news than normal "pro gamer" wankfests, they would provide money to charity, and they might show the world that we're not a bunch of ravening columbines waiting to happen.
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
Well, well.. something really worthwhile.
Write me down for one of those $69 DVD players. I can surely spare that much of my christmas-y money for a good cause. I'm sure that this also applies to many of the (employed) people reading this. Surely you can skim some off that next thinkgeek order and put the dollars to better use?
The local bikers hold rides for toys, MD, probably others. Are they looked at any better because of it? If you are going to do something like this, do it because it makes you feel good. Nobody is going to think any better of you, as a group.
instead of healthy people shooting up schools, now there's going to be 'ill' kids shooting up schools too? Perhaps it would be a good idea to only send non-violent (or adult-themed!) games?
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
Speaking of gamers being crazy lunatics ...
Here is a good example ...
1) Just because *you* feel that someone else could benefit humanity in a different vocation does not mean that person *should* be doing your bidding. Forcing others to toil for the good of humanity generally *isn't* for the good of humanity... it strips humans of their ability to *choose* their vocation.
2) Computer games can be good or bad, just as all activity can be benefical or harmful. Playing is generally accepted as a natural and healthy way to develop physical and cognitive skills. Just because humans choose to use electronic games to play does not mean that they (our their developers) are doing a great harm to mankind.
3) It is a good thing to offer games to the needy and infirm, at minimum it increases their choices.
ACMD eht detaloiv evah uoy
All I have to do is break my leg and some nice people will buy me games?
Insert `fortune -o` here
Here's a link for child's play that won't dissipear when PA posts a new article in a few hours.
"Ridgway remembers where he dumped bodies, how he planned his killings and tricked people into his traps, the descriptions of his many cars, and the floor plans of his several homes. He doesn't remember the faces or names of the 48 victims he admitted killing. In his words, "Like I said, they didn't mean anything to me." He killed only women. He killed no men, he said, " 'cause they didn't give no sexual gratification to me." "
Funny how these serial killers are never identified as demented game players. Was Ridgeway into video games, not that the news has reported. How about Dahmer? Maybe we as a country out to realize that we need to stop blaming everybody else and raise our children right. Good parenting and a safe home environment goes a long way to preventing your child from becoming a blood thirsty killer.
I have one statement about violence in video games: it is not reality.
now I'll elaborate with further statements.
I've played my fair share of bad games, watched faces of death, rotten.com, goatse.cx....*shiver*
so I'm not a stranger to horrific things.
But at the age of 18 when I saw a dead man it was different. way different.
He had suffered a heart attack behind a gas station in bakersfield.
Then there was the late night car drive back from san fransico with my sister when we saw the flipped minivan and the grotesqe result of ejction and head vs pavement.
Both of those incidents were nothing like the movies or even the video accounts of similar events. This was real.
When someone's experience in reality is the same as one imagined, there is something else wrong.
After all, we wouldn't want Tycho and Gabe to find out you got the kid a GBA SP for the holidays...
Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
http://www.tsanewsblog.com
I hope this project of PA's is wildly successful and gets some real mainstream press, outside of just /. and the like.
Though I can see the headlines now..."Violent Videogamers Show Virtue"
Seriously though, go PA and I hope this blossoms. Good work to them.
Moo.
Agreed, but penny-arcade is much less about the money than many other sites. They recently closed Club PA which was paying extra for extra content because they didn't need the money and didn't like excluding people. Also they are choosey about banners and will often explain in their rant why they thought you might be interested in what's being advertised (showing they didn't just jump to the advertiser paying the most).
Well if any children would benefit from becoming hardened to the sight of blood and gore, perhaps they would be seriously injured children in hospital. It might help them to better cope with their own injuries with less shock/panic/revulsion.
Hmm... I'm still not sure though.
If Penny Arcade really feels in a generous holiday spirit, they'd quit posting their horrid comics at us. I go along with Jeff K on this.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
We've already started a collection for the kids over at the Quakecon Forums. After just a few hours I've had $20 sent in and on December 5th I'm going to collect up everything donated and buy a shitload of stuff from the wishlist and send it off to Gabe and Tycho. The specific thread has more details and if you'd also like to be a part of our massive money collection then feel free to donate over at the official donation site. Not only will you get your name on the big donation but you can get a nice warm feeling during Thanksgiving!
"but now it's pointless."
Maybe if little Cancer-Boy wasn't going to be getting a wonderful gift, which he (or she) might not otherwise be able to enjoy. Nintendo doesn't care if you've lost all your hair or if you only have 6 months to live, it's just there to love you with all the Mario and Zelda it can.
See, it's not just about the kudos for gamers not being granny-killing, child-raping monters, it's also about helping people in need.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
You're reminded that it's just a game when you character dies over and over again and comes back to life.... that's not exactly realism we're talking about is it?
Back to the subject, I think LAN-Gaming for charity looks like a pretty good idea!
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
http://games.slashdot.org/~Kris_J/journal/53272. I hope they like retro games (and have a GameCube ;)
http://penny-arcade.com/images/2003/20031124l.gif
Right?
But, see, that's not the point. "Prove we ain't all badz gamerz" is just a rallying cry. It's not the reason, not at all.
The thing is that they've set up and streamlined a way for us to genuinly make a difference. It's an effort headed by some guys that we, as a community, know and trust. It's a theme (games as a positive distraction/passtime/playtime) that I'd suggest a large selection of us here can identify with. And it's more personal than your average charity, since we'll even get to see pictures of the results, when all is said and done.
This is a great thing, and I hope it's just a beginning.
Anyhow. Kudos to Gabe, kudos to Tycho, and the same to everyone helping them out, and to everyone (including you) who're donating to this or other causes.
This probably won't be well-received on /. because it's counter to the "feelgood" nature of the story, but...
There's no reason to expect that just because someone does something good, they're not capable of doing something evil as well. There's many a tale of mafioso gang members going to church on Sunday with their mother, taking confession, and going out on Monday to kill someone....
I'm not saying that anyone who helps this project out is going on a gun-toting killing spree (as if!) but to say X can't do A because (s)he has done B is a bit too simplistic.
It's a nice idea. Don't hype it beyond what it is, it doesn't need it.
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
What would have happened if Albert Einstein had worked creating amazing pinball games instead of creating the theory of relativity? Humanity would suffer!
I bet the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would hold slightly different opinion on this point.
DISCLAIMER: I know, I know, the actual culprits were Hahn and Strassman; but still, Albert signed the memo written by Leo Szilard and then there was no turning back.
The parent post is pertinent - or at least related - to the discussion of Penny Arcade.
This user forms an opinion about Penny Arcade. Even though I do not necessarily agree with this opinion or can imagine there are more than a handful of people who shares this opinion, using one's moderation privledge to strifle his opinion isn't a right things to do.
(I get a feeling i might get modded to oblivion for this, but I got karma to burn)
My life in the land of the rising sun.
didn't they ?
Isn't they why they killed a lot of people ?
The Internet's nature is peer to peer - 20050301_cs_profs.pdf
Am i the only one thinking of sending him a right to reply email, outlining just how wrong he is? I figure if we all do it, the collective Slashdot readership, he may write a followup in the name of unbiased reporting. Or maybe not :)
TheHustler
http://www.elmarko.org/ - Useless bilge
http://www.asylum-games.co.uk/ - Co-Founder
> Gamers Are Good People, Too
They just behave like good people, they call it Role Playing.
You killed Penny Arcade, you bastards!
It's official. Most of you are morons.
For years, gamers have been looked down upon by the media. We are said to be crazy lunatics.... So if you feel like showing the world that gamers are compassionate people too, then head on over to the main Penny Arcade page, and scroll down for details.
As a gay black man born Jewish who converted to the Muslim faith, many people irrationally believe that I recruit young men into a homosexual lifestyle while raping white women and making matzos with the blood of murdered Christian children on my way to planning to blow up airplanes for Allah.
While these prejudices are incorrect, and in truth have been practiced by few or none of the people of my sexual orientation/race/gender/ethnicity/religion, I feel that rather than denouce those ignorant persons who accuse me of those crimes, it is better buy them off.
I hope that by bribing the world, I will gain the grudging acceptance of people who will still whisper behind my back and point accusing fingers at me when they think I'm not looking.
So if you're straight or white or female or Christian or any kind of non-Muslim, please leave me the name of your favorite charity, so that I may begin to pay you to hate me a little less. I hope that when I've contributed enough, you might even call me a compasionate fag coon penis-owning hebe raghead.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
I for one don't feel obligated to donate to a charity just to make a bunch of morons with half-baked theories feel better about my state of mind. Besides, it wouldn't help anyway. People will believe what they want to.
...that this is their newest comic.
Oh yeah buy someone somthing that will show my compassion....try volunteering some time, don't get me wrong in-lieu of doing nothing, tossing some cash at the problem is better, but that doesn't show compassion, just guilt...
Where will you be spending your Thanksgiving day ?
Charities all across the country and the world need both your time AND your money. They need volunteers, but they also need funding for the supplies that the volunteers will be working with, regardless of whether it's food, medicine, or just entertainment for hospitalized children. Without money, the time spent by volunteers is pointless, so if that's all you can give, then there's nothing wrong with that.
Mom? Mom? Why aren't you respawning? Mom? Ah shit. *hides his shotgun*
...or at least that's what the gaming industry says. This is so much bullshit. Let's be honest, if violent games didn't made me violent, I wouldn't play them. So, how exactly does helping the sick children of Seattle (awww... so heart warming...) change that fact? Sorry, but "we think of the children" schemes don't soften me up. The gaming industry obviously has an interest in this, and Penny Arcade is blatently biased too (who pays their advertising? Who's their user base?). And since when does anyone believe that gamers are inexplicably evil? Why do we even try to argument with those who believe so?
Anyways, my advice for the parents? Buy offline multiplayer games. The most fun I've ever had in my 11 years as a gamer (and counting) was playing Mortal Kombat II or Micro Machines V3 for a couple of hours with some friends when I was 12 (sure, MKII was for 18+, but that only added to the thrill). On the other hand, online games, like Counterstrike and Everquest, are time sinks, they retard your child's social growth, stunt their social skills, turn them into mindless, unimaginative, illiterate, loud-mouthed assholes with no fucking life (join a Counterstrike server and you'll understand immediately that my generalization isn't that far-fetched).
There are good and bad games for the children, but, like everything in life, they're all harmful if played in excess. Don't try to ban videogames in your house, teach your children good gaming habits instead. Don't allow more than 3 hours of gaming per day. Force them to take breaks. Make 'em exercise. Beat the shit out of them, if needed, even if that makes them bitter and spiteful against you; they may think of you as an asshole and never thank you, but at least you'll know that you've done the right thing.
Heh, but seriously, violent videogames shouldn't be played by children (but they are played and marketed for children anyways). Restrict them to adults and enforce those restrictions. The parents have better things to do than overseeing every move their children make. End of story. It's that simple, really.
"You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
Gamers just like a challenge, have a short attention span, and love visual stimulation. There's not too much more to it. Some of these kids that play video games wind up playing them so often, they never leave the house, then they're complete social outcasts. I believe being an outcast is a requirement for going insane & gunning people down in public.
Your one of those sick fucks that actually voted for Bush, ain't you... you rant like a lunatic.
You may think he's wasting his life, but its a good living, and what people take away from his games is up to them. The parents of these kids really don't seem to be doing there job, and American culture (if you can us thoses 2 words together without vometing)is such its not the poor parents to blame but everyone else and wheres my settlement.
It this sort of thing that makes the rest of the world look down on USA, and in some cases openly hate them.
P.S. I ain't no commie, and I ain't from US, but I can see it going to heck in a handbasket.
P.P.S. Bush sucks, and is an evil, stupid warmonger....
Here's the wish list. Now get over there and buy something for the kids!
I will go and polish my lovely bomb. ;)
See you in Iraq
That some serial killers come from rather normal homes, with a rather decent upbringing. It is something inside they are born with that gives them the chance to become a serial killer. I understand, it takes a special kind of person to become a serial killer as well.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Video games laced with human atrocities help young, impressionable people practice killing without care. Videogames laced with human atrocities are a) flagged as such and b) not intended for young, impressionable people. It's the game stores' responsibility to keep an eye on what the children buy, true, but it's the parents' responsibility to keep an eye on what the kids play.
qntm.org
The artist that sang that was Canadian.
Mod point free since 2001
According to Mothers Against Violence in America, they can link the Green River Killer to Violent Video Games, and vice versa.
Right.
Back in Old School, they used to call these "old wives' tales."
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Let's be honest, if violent games didn't made me violent, I wouldn't play them.
Excuse me? Please speak for yourself. Personally, I play violent video games as an outlet for my frusterations with life. Some people play sports, other people put their hand through a wall - I play violent video games. Either way, it's better than bottling up the rage until I explode.
Buy offline multiplayer games.
I don't believe this is the solution to the problem of "mindless, unimaginative, illiterate, loud-mouthed assholes with no fucking life" I completely agree that such people exist - but I also know for a fact that people who are thoughtful, imaginative, literate, and kind act the same way online or offline. I believe the problem you're describing is much larger than video games, and I don't think it's caused by video games. I think the problem is caused because either the parents are the same way and the children follow suit, or the parents have neglected to teach the children manners and how to interact with others - instead they've left that to TV and peers.
Don't allow more than 3 hours of gaming per day. Force them to take breaks. Make 'em exercise.
I think having rigid rules, such as "no more than X hours per day" is just asking the kid to either:
1) Play 3 hours every day, even if he doesn't really want to play that day, since it'd be a "waste" if he didn't.
2) Cheat as much as possible, and believe me... if a kid wants to break a rule, he will find a way.
I believe the best solution is to simply teach your child responsibility. As much as you'd want to, a parent simply cannot monitor a child 24/7 - you have to teach the child to monitor himself. This means that the child has to learn from their own mistakes - let them play the game for 12 hours every day, and let them see where that gets them. You can help prod them into realizing that they're wasting their lives away, but don't force them into a different lifestyle.
Now, of course I'm not talking about a 9-year-old here, I'm talking a 16-year-old. For young children, simply not buying everything they want you to buy is enough to keep from spoiling them... which brings me to:
Beat the shit out of them, if needed, even if that makes them bitter and spiteful against you.
Yes, that's the perfect way to keep children from being violent. Almost all children raised by parents who beat them grow up to be responsible, model citizens.(/sarcasm)
Seriously, beating a child is not a good way to punish them. There are much more humane and effective methods of punishment - but remember, punishment should be used rarely - only if the child has severly broken the rules. And the best punishment should be tailored towards the specific child. Do something that will make the child really think about what he did.
Anyway, that's just my two cents, as a 19-year-old gamer currently going to college.
"Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." --Douglas Adams
No, no, no, you got it all wrong. Sit down. Take a deep breath. That's it, inhale. Read what I wrote again. I've been a gamer for several years. I'm a Counterstrike and Everquest player; I was making fun of myself and generalizing about the community, and since this is Slashdot, I doubt anyone here doesn't know that there are also moderate gamers who don't act that way -- like you knew. The "Don't allow more than 3 hours of gaming per day. Force them to take breaks. Make 'em exercise. Beat the shit out of them," is painfully obviously satire (I was getting tired of sounding self-righteous, so that was to lighten up the mood of the post a bit). And "if violent videogames didn't made me violent, I wouldn't play them," is just my personal motto, and obviously doesn't enclose every gamer -- that's why it says 'me'.
Now exhale.
"You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
I don't think that that is an appropriate label for the article. That article is only one in a LONG line of alarmist parenting articles, and no where in it does it call gamers "crazy". The article really isn't about the gamers, it is about the games. Articles like that one have been writen countless times on topics from music to babysitters to movies. They all twist the facts to make the topic seem 10 times worse than it is. While I don't agree with twisting facts for any reason, I don't think that the message of the article, that parents should be concerned about what video games their children play, is a crazy one. Games like Grand Theft Auto are NOT meant for kids, and are NOT appropriate. A game of that type is just as unsuitable for a 12 year old as Silence of the Lambs or The Exorcist. Fine for adults, not so for children. For a long time video games have been incapable of showing violence in a realistic enough way to really matter, so some parents just don't see it as important to filter which video games their children play. While that used to be true, it is no longer, and parents should be made aware of this fact.
Heh. It doesn't seem to help the biker image for all those toys for tots bike runs.
Shit better not happen!
Parent has a good idea, of donating Dance Dance Revolution kit to a hospital. Are any physical therapists reading Slashdot? If so, has any of them tried DDR?
It appears your satire has been mistaken as your actual opinion, mainly because it's just not well-written satire. I'm not flaming you... in fact, it seemed like well-written commentary to me, just not satire. You weren't extreme enough (except possibley the "beat your children" line) to really show the reader that you were being sarcastic for the whole post. This is evidenced by the +3 informative, rather than the +3 funny.
And if the satire really is painfully obvious, then I suppose I should appologize for my ignorance.
Aside from that, I belive my post still has merit and I stick by my comments.
"Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." --Douglas Adams
NeenerNeener has been running a campaign for multiple sclerosis for three years now. Since the site is all about MMORPGs, they've mostly had MMORPG players there. But everyone can still participate!
Linky
That was because it wasn't satire for the entire post; just those parts I highlighted. Humor should always be part of any serious discussion.
"You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
So who pays your salary ? I am convinced they are actually the ones who wanted you to post this, after all you MUST be blatantly biased towards them. Perhaps the local chapter of Cynical People.
Japan became a pacifist nation because they had their ass handed to them, before that they were one of the most brutal states in world history.
One of the things the Nagasaki tourist office doesnt mention is that Nagasaki was the site of one of their more brutal POW prison camps where prisoners were routinely beaten and executed. The former prisoners there are quite sincere in their belief that they would be dead if the atom bomb had not been dropped.
Now find me a victorious nation who has turned their back on war...and ill believe that nation is a good and peaceful nation.
I like it how they have only want one of each game... I hope they ask for some DVD-R's and Modchips to brighten those kids lives on a budget. Besides, no one is going to take sick kids games away :D
Instead of making this another "its the parents fault, no its societies fault" argument or anything of the like, how about you go donate to these sick children who could really use it.
Flame me all you want, but some child is going to be smiling on christmas because of me, and what he thinks is worth a million times more to me than what you think.
We are said to be crazy lunatics who, given the chance, might decide to shoot up our school because of the games we play
It is ridiculous to claim that video games influence children. For instance, if PacMan affected kids born in the eighties, we should by now have a bunch of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous electronic music --Gene Spafford
Ahem, pardon my Fren^H^H^H^HAmerican ;-)
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
One of my points was "what the hell does donating to the children in need have to do with violent games? Why is Penny Arcade associating one thing with the other?"
Obviously, you missed it by a couple of hectacres.
"You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
I still don't see how donating to charity is going to make gamers look better in the eyes of society in general, as Penny Arcade hopes.
"You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
well alrighty then, fair play the the PA crowd, keep up the good work.
That Christmas tree looks like someone puked on it.
One of my points was "what the hell does donating to the children in need have to do with violent games? Why is Penny Arcade associating one thing with the other?"
Obviously, you missed it by a couple of hectares.
"You should never doubt what nobody is sure about." -- Willy Wonka
Give this guy a break. He's saying exactly what he means, and he has very good points (even if he IS a little insensitive).
First, MMORPG's ARE cultural sinks that will eat your soul. Anyone that plays them will freely admit that these things steal countless hours of their lives and make them act in irresponsible ways that they might normally eschew (skipping work/school, eating crap, cancelling dates with RL friends, not sleeping NEARLY enough, etc). Come on guys, they don't call it EverCrack for nothing.
And he's also right that helping the sick children WON'T change anyone's perception of gamers. If you donate gifts to kids specifically to inflate your ego baloon or to raise the social concious up another couple bars in favor of the gaming community then you're wasting your time. Is helping those kids out a good thing? You're damn right it is. I wish more people in the world operated on that level.
He's dead on with the parenting too. Anymore, both parents are working (if there even are two parents), and usually pulling overtime. When kids aren't at school or in daycare, they're usually playing video games. In the 50's, maybe it was cool for a non-working mom to stay home and clean the freaking house or cook up a nice juicy turkey for the family - but when Dad got home, what do you think he did? HE SAT ON THE FREAKING COUCH AND SMOKED HIS PIPE AND READ THE STINKING NEWSPAPER WHILE HE SIPPED HIS MARTINI because he was TOO TIRED to do anything else. Now that moms are working too (and sometimes more if they have to work two jobs just to get the rent paid) they're behaing the same way. There just isn't anyone left to make the turkey, clean the house, and "mother" the children.
All of you that say parents need to get more involved are probably either:
a) wealthy enough and lucky enough to have that luxury as parents yourselves
b) young guys and gals who don't actually have children yet.
c) hippocrites who like to talk loud about morals while your children slowly turn into monsters in the next room.
or, most likely:
d) absolutely right that parents need to get more involved, but simply not thinking through the sort of sweeping changes that will have to take effect in this country before that can realistically happen.
if you want to blame someone for our screwed up kids, blame our corrupt and inneficient government for fucking up our education, levying ridiculous taxes, letting medical insurance get way out of control, and doing a piss poor job of regulating price inflation and monopolistic corporate practices - leaving struggling parents with few options and little hope.
** Chigusaaa!!! You're the coolest girl in the WORLD!!! **
Seattle Children's Hospital is a *very* worthy cause. My wife and I donated our older Playstation to them, along with some fun games of the platformer / run-and-jump variety that we were no longer playing. Many of the kids are there with serious and life-threatening diseases, such as leukemia, and anything that helps take their minds off of their problems is a welcome respite from the struggles with health and the sometimes painful treatment.
If you have an older system you don't use as much, or have multiple gaming consoles, consider donating one of them to a local children's hospital this season. You will be glad you did.
Just saying.
Who would win in a fight between the Cardboard Tube Samurai and the ;)
Shirt Ninja??
Join the TWIT army now!
The fact that you're in the UK just makes this all the more funny. Canada is far, far closer to the UK politically than it is to the US. The queen is on all our money. Our governer general reports to the royal family. Canada is still practically a British colony!
And yes, Alanis Morrisette is Canadian. And yes, none of the things she lists in her song "Ironic" are actually ironic. But that, in and of itself, is ironic! That was her joke. Hardly anyone got it.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
I almost agree with everything you say except paddling ^^
It doesn't damage the kid, you're right. My dad paddled me when I was younger. However, he decided to stop when he noticed that *I* started to punish my younger brother using force when he did something wrong.
Maybe he got lucky in raising kids who respected him and his beliefs without resorting to violence, because in the end that is exactly what he taught me; that violence was an appropriate tool for the upright and just, and he decided that wasn't such a good thing.
GPL Deconstructed
Oooh, my head is so confused!
When it comes to charity they really give back to the community. Being doctors they know how hard it is to get donations for medical needs.
s es /charitable/
http://www.bioware.com/bioware_info/press_relea
I am not sure that they want to make themselves look better in society, just look normal. Give gamers a more balanced look in the media than how they are portrayed now. Will there be an impact ? Probably not. Will some sick children benefit ? Of course. And that is really the point right ?
While I think that what Penny Arcade is doing is a wonderful attempt to change the public perception of gamers
That's not right at all. What Penny Arcade is doign is a wonderful attempt to change the lives of so many underprivileged kids. I'm sure they like the good publicity, but I'm also sure they couldn't care less about it. They're doing this to help, not to 'change the public perception of gamers'.
Of course, I could be wrong, but if I am, then I don't want any part of this endeavor - the right thing for the wrong reasons is still wrong.
--Dan
from the Bill France article:
... by the time Ridgway and his second wife divorced in 1981, but coworkers remember Ridgway carried a Bible,...
The broken record would be about violence, and it would seem that the warnings have all been issued.
But, try these three points for starters:
- If a parent wanted their children to develop attitudes like Gary Ridgway, the confessed killer of at least 48 women, these games might provide a good training ground.
Okay, so the Green River killings started in July 1982, according to cnn. Instead of offering reasons as to how Gary Ridgway developed his mindset and the various warning signs related to a confessed serial killer, Bill France decides to warp this into a video game issue. Therefore, let's see what games may have inspired the rampage. Perhaps he was re-enacting a twisted version of his experience in Lasso? Or Naughty Boy?
If you need to speculate, look at the guy's history and work from there. The quickest article I could find is here. Interesting that the article states:
You see that! And this was JUST BEFORE THE KILLINGS! Now go and speculate!
This is not my sig.
Which is sort of what you're doing, no offense. Turning this one into a pro-spanking tirade is missing the point and creating a little spat off to the side.
What we need to do isn't scold parents for not spanking their kids. We just need to encourage families to spend time together, it's that simple. When you have time together, the kids will pick up on the values you believe in -- partly because you play the whole parental role and instruct (and sometimes scold) them, but more importantly because they'll see how you act yourself. There are tons of ways that'll come out, lots of different flavors to it. You're into this spanking thing; well, whatever, but at least be there with them, you know?
Personally I don't always blame the parents. Partly this is economic -- two working parents on the same schedule has become the norm in order to keep up our SUV insurance payments, and that means kids just plain have less time with the adults who really do care about them. Scolding a single mother for not spanking her kids more is just not going to help anyone. On the other hand, if her work gave her flex time, for example, that might help. Your "Parents are to blame" angle would probably shut that option down.
But back to the games thing: I like computer games, play them with the kids or with the kids watching often enough, and I'm darn certain they understand the distinction between fantasy and reality there. On the other hand I've run into two-year-olds who couldn't talk except in snippets from video games. Not enough parents in that life, too much games in isolation. That's the difference.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
However. . , being from the 'media as mind-control' camp, I'd like to add my two cents to round out the discussion.
'Command and Conquer' and 'MOO2' style games left a powerful impact upon the psyche of millions upon millions of gamers, many of whom are now grown up from those days and now participate in society as young, working voters.
I found the insane zeal, (yes, insane), for the initial American advance into Iraq to be, well, 'shocking and awful'. You could especially see it on Slashdot during the first week. --All those RTS game fantasies and C&C visions being played out for 'real' in a war zone seemed to be a hard-on thrill for more Americans than you could shake a stick at. (A nuclear powered stick, even. --And you'd have needed to!)
All the guys I know who play 'Ghost Recon' as their primary source of interactive fun are either hard-core pro-war, or it was a slow process for them to realize that Iraq was a Big Fucking Mistake. (Though, now that Bush got his bloodmoney-making machine going, it doesn't matter now what anybody thinks. The screw is in and gamers waking up late to the reality no longer matter.)
Those who find those types of games distasteful, seemed to have a much more balanced view of things. --Of course, perhaps my sample is too small; I only know a dozen or so guys who play that stuff. . , but among them, the observation holds up well.
So were popular war games a form of media influence used to direct people into accepting the drive toward global war? Oh, yes. I think so. Was it deliberate? Were the bosses of game companies accepting manilla envelopes from shadow figures while feeding pigeons? Heh. Probably not.
But here's the thing. . , and yes, this sounds sci-fi, but I do think it works this way: millions of people are subjected to powerful and deliberate forces they do not understand. Ask any number of influential writers and creators where they get their ideas, and when it comes right down to it, most of the time they'll say, "Hell, I don't know. It just came to me." Or, "I was taken by inspiration and just had to write it!" Or, "It just seemed to write itself!"
Yes, yes. Tin-foil hats, "get back on your medication" and "boy you're nuts," blah, blah, blah. But this is the shape of the world that I see. And the proof, as always, is in the pudding.
-FL
Dude, NES may have increased my adrenaline 10 years ago, but if it's what you consider "heart-pounding-action" nowadays I'd seriously recommend you don't upgrade to a newer/more-realistic system anytime soon. :-)
way to go while(true) ... profit from the kids.
if yer gonna use a link with a referral tag, at least use penny-arcade's, so you can support them. they're at least honest about where the money goes.
PA's link to wish list that doesn't line while(true)'s greedy pockets
link to wish list that line's no-ones pockets with referral cash
At no time in my life have I ever been scared of my dad, but I sure as hell respected him.
Indeed, didn't make me scared of my parents so much as I was scared of an ass-whooping I'd get for being caught, part of that is in making sure there's a collelation between the action and the punishment, no between the punisher and punishee.
However, in all seriousness, I think that having my computer/console taken away at that time was much more emotionally distressing than the physical stuff. A spanking lasts what, 5 minutes? A week off my games... most lasting impression.
If memory serves me, After Sept 11, one of Sim Racing's big contributors (Zen Joltis) died from complicating injuries he sustained in one of the trade towers. A memorial race was held on a track he designed and the money raised was donated to his family. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the exact link to this race because the Team-Lightspeed forums (who sponsored the race a while back) have been shut down. So I can't provide confirming evidence. But it did take place.
But what I can point out is:
http://vjg.bdrmotorsports.com/press.html
Kyle Petty is building a camp (Victory Junction)for kids with terminal illness, and again the sim racing community is getting together to raise money for the camp.
So not to take away anything from PA's efforts, but this stuff has been going on for a little while anyway, just under the radar.
jeff
I think what penny-arcade is trying to do is show that the end-result of these games (ie. the gamers) are not freaks on the verge of mass homicide, but people with hearts and minds that prefer to make people smile rather then bleed in the real world.
Seriously... every once in a while we see something about possible behavioral ties, but it's pretty low key. The vast majority of media I see is non-judgemental. Stuff like video game segments on CNN. Do you really feel that hard done by?
Incidently, if you believe childrens educational video games can be a positive influence on a childs behaviour and growth, then by definition you believe that games based on negative values can do the opposite.
We are said to be crazy lunatics who, given the chance, might decide to shoot up our school because of the games we play.
We are? As far as I can tell, the media has taken to media and entertainment pretty well. I even saw CNN report on Doom 3 at E3, showing everything. Kill Bill has been well-liked.
I see no gamer-disdain among the majority of media outlets. What's the problem? Most everyone plays games these days, even some women (The Sims).
by the time you can play dance dance revolution, your physical therapy is done
You know, DDR (especially DDR Extreme) does have lots of easy 1-foot songs, which could be used for the later stages of lower-body therapy, especially for those who have already learned how to read arrows by playing the game with thumbs.
every time an ambulance is in my vicinity while driving, i have the sudden urge to tail it as fast as i can go. must be all those hours playing spy hunter. where's my custom flatbed rig and grease dumper?
Say, why not offer free ad rotation for these kind of charitable drives on Slashdot?
Rather than seeing the same Visual Studio ad for the 1000th time, we could see a link to Breast Cancer research dontaion drive or to the PA toy drive or even just the United Way. Pick some charities. You've got a big hammer here, why not use it to build a house rather than a store?
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
So women can't play games? You sexist!
I remember reading an article way back of a DUI event where some drunk ran over and decapitated a kid somehow. The blame was not on the alcohol content, but on Mortal Kombat. Society is crazy, not gamers.
"It's cool to rip people's spine out." - Sub Zero
Funny, I thought those "nice" people at PA would have done this in the first place. We know *how* ethical and trust worthy they are.
Help us get stuff from Amazon do donate to charity, yeah right.
but the synic in me can't get around the slick marketing spin on this. I disagree about money vs time though, so many of the problems can be addressed by just some guidance, ie big brothers/sisters, or just going to the local retirement home and talking to someone for an hour or so...no cost but the impact is enormous, and so many problems have millions thrown at them which gets eaten up in admin costs and fails to address the problem but rather the most visible, and usually media hyped heart-wrenching symptoms.
If more people spent time more atention would go to places like Malaysia, or perhaps the plight of the Roma in Eastern Europe. Money is good, but not a substitute for human compassion and caring.
Have a good Thanksgiving DarkZero, where ever and with whomever you choose to spend it....Arch
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Can we have a "-1 Retarded" mod option?
...apparently gamers do it to improve their reputation.
Instead of a nice post about how wonderful it would be to give games to sick children, we're given the impression that the purpose of doing so is to improve one's image in the media.
I'll give PA the benefit of the doubt and assume their motives in giving are better than The Ticktockman's apparently are.
... I never thought of it that way. Could it be that Alanis Morrisette has deeper meanings in her lyrics? Naaah, surely not. Anyway, it seems that Canada is closer to England than the UK politically. We don't like them very much, although we do quite like Canadians here. Don't think much of your beer though.
Well, I don't know about you, but personally I have the occasional itch to strap on a 100 ton assault mech laden with PPC's and Gauss Rifles. Maybe even a little flamers for some giggles. And then I just want to go on a tri-state killing spree. You know, just firin' my PPC's at oncoming traffic, while usin' the good ole' gauss to get them long range targets. The flamers? Well, lets just say that watchin' them critters down below runnin' while on fire is good for a laugh or two. When I want to get real close and personal, I go get my Cauldron Born with the twin AC20s, and go for maximum damage. Hell, I think I'll head towards my garage right now!
Odin - Mech Warrior 4 Mercs
That's rather harsh. I think the primary motive is kindness. I mean, what type of gamer really cares about "one's image in the media"? Gamers play games for fun, and would be giving games to others to share the fun. I think it is only because of the skewed image the media has of gamers that Ticktockman points out that this is an act of kindness, not violence.
Join moola.com, play games to earn money.
You must be a fan of Macs.
I can just tell.
I believe people are horribly biased and will continue to be horribly biased until they understand that thier emotions are playing tricks on thier "rational" mind.
Thankfully for me, my emotions usually compell me to back up my assertions with something concrete, otherwise I feel vulnerable to attack.
Feeling pretty comfortable with my evidence, I'm going to come right out and assert.
Homicide and Violent Crimes are at an all time LOW since 1993. (Hell, it's as good at the 50's and 60's)
Seriously, these stats will shock the shit out of you.
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Teen Homicide Statistics
Violent Crime Statistics
From what I understand, the video game industry is now bigger than the movie industry (for a couple years now?). The games released in the last 10 years have set unprecendented levels violence and realism engaging the player in committing virtual crimes (Grand Theft Auto), from theft, murder all the way up to terrorism.
From what I remember, video games really started getting super-violent from 1993 onward. Isn't that when Doom popularized that realistic genre?
Also, the movies have gotten a lot worse, especially with the proliferation of CGI making violence and gore super realistic. Let's not forget the mass dissemination of porn making it accessible to anyone who can use a search engine.
So why did violence and homicide levels plummet to a THIRD of levels in 1993? Why aren't all the school suffering from shootings on a daily basis?
Too many people assume that video games are making our society more violent. This is clearly untrue. Instead, The reverse has happened. Why?
Is this because of a change in policy? Is being tough and violent now uncool? Could video games have played a role in making society less violent by allowing people to release thier aggression? Was it the result of a lot of things?
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
They also discussed the proposed bill "Protect Children from Video Game Sex and Violence Act of 2003". I'm sure you gamers will like that one.
As usual, their discussion didn't solve anything, but they did highlight the salient points in the ongoing discussion.
I, for one, don't understand why adults believe kids can't distinguish between a game scenario and real life. One "concerned mother" used the example that when kids encounter a roadblock/barricade in a video game, their first response is a violent one (crash it). Encountering the "same" roadblock in real life she said, would thus cause them to have the same first response (violence of some sort). She more or less implied that such kids would run the real roadbloock because they'd seen/crashed one in a virtual situation.
I think kids can distinguish. When you played cops & robbers as kids, did you really think you were shooting-to-kill your playmates? (Those of you that did, are you now a psychopath?)
Shut your pie hole.
the moderators involved are unfamiliar with Monty Python.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Yay, feel-good organizational move of the year.
New stereotypes for everyone!!!
Many Thanks,
Luke
Furthermore, the author fails to mention any of the positive aspects of video games. Such as problem solving, teamwork, increased coordination, incread reflexes etc. Yes, even in violent video games there are benefits. Well... not in Postal or Postal 2, those games are mindless and stupid.
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
The link is copy-pasted from Penny Arcade's front page. You can check for yourself.
I don't know who the referral goes to. Ask PA if you want to know.