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What's the Point of Building a Home Theater PC?
An anonymous reader writes "FiringSquad has written Building a Basic HTPC. They discuss why Building a HTPC only makes sense if it can do something better than any other commercially available solution, as well as why HTPC should integrate act like a component not a computer. They also go into upsampling of DVDs to HDTV."
Building a Basic HTPC
February 03, 2004
Summary: You've read about building no-budget Dual Opteron workstations, and RAID-less storage servers and even air filters at FiringSquad. Today we'll be looking at Building a Basic Home Theater PC. If you're thinking Small Form Factor ATX, you haven't learned anything from our previous articles. This HTPC is designed for two purposes only: high-definition upsampling of DVD video and personal video recording. If you ever wondered how DVD's can look better when brought to HDTV resolutions even though the source is the same, read inside.
Introduction Page:: ( 1 / 10 )
The HTPC or "Home Theater PC" is a popular but often nebulous concept. Everyone would agree that a fundamental component is that the pc be connected to a television but what the HTPC is used for is something to debate. Some people use a HTPC to play games on the big screen, while others see it as a way to enjoy high-quality DVD, others see it as a music/video/image jukebox, and still others see it as a way to get a low-cost HDTV by using a desktop monitor rather than TV.
The problem with having a HTPC doing multiple tasks is that it becomes more difficult to integrate the software and yet your wallet gets thinner and thinner. Instead of starting off with a full-fledged HTPC, we're going to start with a very introductory approach to the HTPC and then through follow-up articles, add more features.
For this introductory HTPC article, we have two very specific tasks: DVD upsampled to HDTV resolutions, and a personal TV recorder. Since we're "lazy," our HTPC needs to perform like a real piece of home theater equipment as much as possible. The system should integrate itself seamlessly, and shouldn't force the user to think about it as a computer. The HTPC also has to have an advantage over a similar dedicated component ? there's no point in reinventing the wheel unless you can make it faster, smaller, and cheaper.
Why these two tasks?
We've designed this system as an ideal starting point for anyone with a "HDTV ready" television.
Having a PC-based TIVO is ideal for a number of reasons. The most important factor is cost. Both TIVO and ReplayTV charge a subscription fee and ridiculous premiums for larger hard drives. With a PC, you can add and replace IDE hard drives on a whim and also enjoy free TV listings. In addition, it is possible to enjoy higher quality video through a PC-based system through improved video scaling than would otherwise be possible with a standard unit.
Finally, ATI and other third-party software applications have media server applications that will allow their multimedia products to stream video to client systems on your desktop, and NVIDIA is expected to add this capability to its Personal Cinema line in the near future.
The upsampled DVD is the more important feature in our HTPC today. Even if cost is no object, the HTPC approach to DVD can offer better picture quality than any stand-alone unit. DVDs are recorded with 480 lines of resolution, however it turns out that upsampling the video to a 720p or 1080i resolution for HDTV and HDTV-ready televisions will offer the best quality.
It's a real phenomenon
One of the most often confused concepts is the idea that upsampling DVDs to HDTV resolutions will make DVDs look as good as HDTV. It doesn't seem as if this is possible -- the data is not present to begin with. The real answer is that while an upsampled DVD isn't as good as true HDTV, it will look better than a straight 480 progressive lines of resolution. Here's why?
HDTV-ready CRT
Like a CRT PC monitor, an HDTV-ready CRT can sync at multiple resolutions. The catch is that the electron beam is not designed to change in size depending on the resolution (it changes but not by design). Suppose you have a 19" monitor running at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200. While reading this webpage, look at the white background. Get as close to the screen as you can to study the white. dy
If you've already got the (huge) monitor sitting around, then you may as well go for it. Plus, you can make your own DVR that would be integrated with your "TV."
My lack of God, it's Trotsky!
Building a HTPC only makes sense if it can do something better than any other commercially available solution...
Two words: Half Life.
The point, Taco, is price. Why should I pay $2000 when I can have it for $200 in parts. Plus, there are plenty to people who get more enjoyment out of building something themselves.
even my wife loves it
If you have the computer experience, why not build a Home Theater PC? It's fun to do (if that sort of thing is fun to you), and it *can* cost less than a commercial model with the same features, especially if you equip a lot of features into the system. Besides, if the PC can also serve as a PVR or other cool functions, then it's a doubly-good deal.
stuff |
I have always wanted to do build a HTPC, but have not had the time or money as of yet. I think it would be interesting to learn more about sound video and have fun doing it in my own home on one of my PC's. With the right TV/Projector you could do much more with it than just watch movies.
Building a Basic HTPC
February 03, 2004
Summary: You've read about building no-budget Dual Opteron workstations, and RAID-less storage servers and even air filters at FiringSquad. Today we'll be looking at Building a Basic Home Theater PC. If you're thinking Small Form Factor ATX, you haven't learned anything from our previous articles. This HTPC is designed for two purposes only: high-definition upsampling of DVD video and personal video recording. If you ever wondered how DVD's can look better when brought to HDTV resolutions even though the source is the same, read inside.
IntroductionPage:: ( 1 / 10 )
The HTPC or "Home Theater PC" is a popular but often nebulous concept. Everyone would agree that a fundamental component is that the pc be connected to a television but what the HTPC is used for is something to debate. Some people use a HTPC to play games on the big screen, while others see it as a way to enjoy high-quality DVD, others see it as a music/video/image jukebox, and still others see it as a way to get a low-cost HDTV by using a desktop monitor rather than TV.
The problem with having a HTPC doing multiple tasks is that it becomes more difficult to integrate the software and yet your wallet gets thinner and thinner. Instead of starting off with a full-fledged HTPC, we're going to start with a very introductory approach to the HTPC and then through follow-up articles, add more features.
For this introductory HTPC article, we have two very specific tasks: DVD upsampled to HDTV resolutions, and a personal TV recorder. Since we're "lazy," our HTPC needs to perform like a real piece of home theater equipment as much as possible. The system should integrate itself seamlessly, and shouldn't force the user to think about it as a computer. The HTPC also has to have an advantage over a similar dedicated component ** there's no point in reinventing the wheel unless you can make it faster, smaller, and cheaper.
Why these two tasks?
We've designed this system as an ideal starting point for anyone with a "HDTV ready" television.
Having a PC-based TIVO is ideal for a number of reasons. The most important factor is cost. Both TIVO and ReplayTV charge a subscription fee and ridiculous premiums for larger hard drives. With a PC, you can add and replace IDE hard drives on a whim and also enjoy free TV listings. In addition, it is possible to enjoy higher quality video through a PC-based system through improved video scaling than would otherwise be possible with a standard unit.
Finally, ATI and other third-party software applications have media server applications that will allow their multimedia products to stream video to client systems on your desktop, and NVIDIA is expected to add this capability to its Personal Cinema line in the near future.
The upsampled DVD is the more important feature in our HTPC today. Even if cost is no object, the HTPC approach to DVD can offer better picture quality than any stand-alone unit. DVDs are recorded with 480 lines of resolution, however it turns out that upsampling the video to a 720p or 1080i resolution for HDTV and HDTV-ready televisions will offer the best quality.
It's a real phenomenon
One of the most often confused concepts is the idea that upsampling DVDs to HDTV resolutions will make DVDs look as good as HDTV. It doesn't seem as if this is possible -- the data is not present to begin with. The real answer is that while an upsampled DVD isn't as good as true HDTV, it will look better than a straight 480 progressive lines of resolution. Here's why**
HDTV-ready CRT
Like a CRT PC monitor, an HDTV-ready CRT can sync at multiple resolutions. The catch is that the electron beam is not designed to change in size depending on the resolution (it changes but not by design). Suppose you have a 19" monitor running at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200. While reading this webpage, look at the white background. Get as close to the screen as you can to study the white. Now, change your monito
Porn.
I browse at +5 Flamebait- moderation for all or moderation for none.
What's the point? 480P is converted to either 540P or 1080i in most HDTVs anyway.
Hmm.. for my "home theatre PC" I run video through coax to my TV, run digital audio through coax to my Dolby Digital receiver, and use an "ATI Remote Bob" RF remote control (made by Saphire).
Any video is full screen and in excellent quality, the remote control (being RF) means it's not line-of-sight. In fact my computer room is ~5 M away behind me. The coax runs over the ceiling tiles in my basement. If I tossed you the remote control you'd likely think it was a DVD player until I you asked about the "ATI" logo on the remote.
Damn cool.
Trolling is a art,
I do it for the challenges.
Things like:
"Build a HTPC into a VCR, and keep the original funcionality of the VCR"
"Build a HTPC in my receiver, and make sure everything works" (Side note: That one was only sort of successful - had to remove the amp and use an external one, to much EMI)
I do it because I like having choices, I do it because I like to be able to stream show X to TV Y or burn it to DVD.
I do it because I'm a geek and a tinkerer, and it's in my nature.
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
...to watch HDTV content, but I can't seem to find the right combination of gadgets to make it work.
For instance, I'd want/need to get my HD content from DirecTV/DishNetwork. Ideally I'd want the MPEG stream to be saved directly to my HD, but that doesn't seem possible. I'd settle for using the new/upcoming Dish/TiVO HD-PVR's these DBS companies are offering but even then there appears to be a problem getting the content into the computer... my video card (and all of the other video cards I've looked at) sports different ways of outputting signal but only two ways in inputting it, S-Video and component, and neither seem suitable for displaying HD content.
Am I missing something? I'm not a hardware whiz (can you tell?) so any help would be appreciated.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Hurray!
Just another way for us fat bastards to find a way to sit infront of the computer!
Hurray!
Most of the DVR units out there come as part of a Satellite system or come with a subscription fee.
.MOV files well and are vary limited.
You can make your own system with an on-screen guide, time shifting and the ability to play DIVX movies and games for rather cheap now.
The retail units still don't play DIVX or Apple
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
wHY install Linux on an x-Box?
WHY install Linux on a toaster?
WHY make a cell phone so small that only an ant can use it?
"Why" is such a great question, but unfortunately the only answer here seems to be "Because I can". Didn't science have a purpose once upon a time?
Socialism: A feeling of discontent and resentment caused by a desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
1) Play DVDs. More advanced features than standalone players, such as bookmarking (that allows you to skip that pesky 'forced' content), multiregion playback etc.
2) Play games on a big TV with decent 5.1 sound.
3) Play MP3s from a central server through your stereo.
4) Used by people with high end projectors to deinterlace video signals.
5) Confirm your geekiness.
I got the idea into my head a while back that my PC would do everything. I'd have every piece of electronic and entertainment equipment in one box. I would be able to watch DVDs, TV, play CDs and MP3s, fake Tivo, Fax machine, answering machine all from my PC. All controlled via remote and piped to my TV.
It would be incredible.
Then I realized that I already had all of that stuff and it all worked perfectly. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
D
The first, last, and only tech news site on the net
Can any other popular home theater system plug online on allow you to browse the hun?
HTPC is the way to go!
ignore me
*DrugCheese rants*
Why build your own PC?
Why build your own car?
Why build your own house?
Why do any of the above when you can just purchase the finished product outright which might be better than what you could build? Because we can.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
LOL. Saves me the trouble of finding information on it.
From the graphics section:
Compared to the native tuner on my HDTV-ready 27" Samsung 2796 TV (which was last years top of the line 27" Samsung HDTV), the ATI shows a reduction in signal noise in all channels. The drawback to this effect is that it makes the picture look a little soft, this is similar to the pictures from the early progressive scan TVs. It can be argued about which picture is preferable, the slightly noisier but sharper or the noiseless, softer picture.
Can noise reduction make an image softer? If removing it makes the images softer, can it be called noise?
A HTPC is a great way to get ahead of the Copyright Gestapo.
Check this out: http://www.gujistyle.com/HTPC.html
For the whole set-up to work with minimum hassle, get a LCD (LCoS or flat-panel LCD) or plasma display or a multi-sync CRT monitor (Princeton Graphics, Monivision, Proton, CTX).
I predict that within a few years, the Copyright Gestapo will force TiVo into bankruptcy. Don't forget the broadcast flags that will be present in the TV signals. Such broadcast flags may prevent compliant consumer electronics from recording your favorite show. I doubt this would affect HTPCs since it is the software on the HTPC that does most of the work and software can be created to bypass copyright protection.
Posters here seem to have demonstrated pretty clearly that even that's not close to cost-effective, unless you have almost all parts already and don't care about much of Tivo's functionality.
You do this stuff for fun, not to save money.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
All the other functions of a HTPC aside, the PowerMac G3 I'm using does one thing I can't replicate with a one-box solution: it records HDTV over FireWire. A DVHS deck would cost me way more than the $100 + $75 FireWire/USB card I paid for the G3. Even then, the DVHS deck uses tape opposed to random access hard drive.
It's not exactly a TiVo, but it time-shifts HDTV just fine. Since there is so little HD content anyway, I have no need for an HD TiVo anyway.
this is my sig
I'm sure given more time I could think of a few more, but that covers the majors. It wasn't any cheaper than a standalone unit for some of these functions, and it isn't quite as easy to deal with, but it was fun to build and tweak on. Plus it has the added benefit of being upgradeable.
One thing that this article doesn't seem to touch on is noise. When I first built mine the noise was intolerable. I ended up having to replace the PS, CPU fan and case fans with quiet models, and lining the case with Dynamat to cut the noise down to where it didn't bother me.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
Why? Obviously, if one has the know-how to build such a system, they probably won't find it inconvenient to use it like a computer. I know that I'm like the fact that me "HTPC" doesn't act like a component -- and I appreciate the flexibility that a computer offers me. Anybody who needs their "HTPC" to act like a component is probably better off saving time and money by just buying a component in the first place.
-Turkey
Perhaps they didn't mean for this to be spotlighted on
Sierra Tango Foxtrot Uniform
Seems your average user doesn't care about any of this integrated pc stuff.
They want their tivo, their dvd player, their vcr, etc.
But the biggest problem, imo, (which some will say these pcs address cause of upgradeability) is that once you buy a combo setup system--tivo/dvd player/vcr/whathaveyou, you're "locked in" to that system for a while....people (such as myself) don't want to spend a gang of money constantly upgrading, or sitting there wondering how quickly the entertainment center will become obsolete.
Once the tech gets figured out, I think integrated all in one systems will take off....anyway, my $.00000000000019
Sent from your iPad.
Building a HTPC only makes sense if it can do something better than any other commercially available solution... It doesn't have to do something better... odds are you have misc parts lying around and could build one from those. As with mine, I spent $35 on parts... the rest I had already from old systems. It does everything I want it to, plus it is hundreds of dollars less than something commercially available. It's definitely not better, but far more practical than purchasing a commericial system.
This will only to appeal to a small segment of the population, but I speak from experience with anime (this could apply to any foreign works, though). There are times DVDs are released without subtitles in a language you can read or dialogue in a language you can understand. There are people out there (fans) who will go through the trouble of created timed subtitle scripts. So, if you have a PC and a region-compatible or region-free DVD player, you can enjoy this new video (which you payed for) with working subtitles!
This becomes more interesting when you learn that a lot of entertainment goes through a localization process when they are being brought over to foreign markets. One prime example is how virtually every Hong Kong movie must have gangster rap in it... >_< So, sometimes people want to watch the original version.
That's one advantage I can think of for HTPC.
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
It was little more then 50 years ago that people could easily build their own cars.
There's also a very strong community of personal aircraft builders. (I know one, it impresses the hell out of me that he's building this thing and intends to fly it.)
I enjoy building my own PCs because I can pick and choose to my taste.
Where do people think innovation comes from? Big corporations paying for new designs? The majority comes from people PLAYING with ideas and creating new things!
I decided one day to build a machine that could do laundry, make be breakfast, clean the house, and give me a blow job... then I realized I already had a wife!
None, else we would not do it.
Okay, next question, let's see what's on ask slashdot
Whats with selecting an ATI card for the graphics system. From what I've heard ATI capture support in linux is very minimal and closed. There are far better and more supported captured cards on the market that they could have chosen. Smells like sponsorship to me. :)
- HTPC should integrate act like a component not a computer.
I don't understand this. You have a fully functional computer. Why not use it like one?The attraction of a HTPC for me is that it can do a reasonably good job playing DVDs and recording TV (replacing a dedicated DVD player and TiVo) and also function as a full computer, allowing me to browse the web, read e-mail, work, and play games. In particular, playing PC games on a huge 80" projection screen with a surround sound system is pretty sweet.
why is this modded redundant?
the other has been clipped
Last year I found myself with an old AMD 800mhz PC, missing just the monitor (total value probably $100). I also have lots of divx movies. Converting the movies to MPEG, splitting them, and burning them to CDs so that I could watch them in my DVD player was a pain. Watching them on a computer was even worse. So, I hooked up my PC to the TV, put the PC on my wireless network, and now I have a "HTPC". Total cost to me -- $40 for a wireless network card.
Now I'm in the process of installing MythTV on that PC (total cost $200 for a encoder/decoder card), and I'll have an awesome PVR without having to pay any monthly fees.
There's no reason that your wallet needs to get thinner and thinner. If you are interested in a PVR (ie. Tivo), then you actually save piles of money by not having to pay the monthly Tivo fee.
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
...but they have been doing AV type integration for a long time, and they're pretty good at it.
Linux support is not everything, nor should it be considered as a sole deciding factor in the building of a PC.
I do not run Linux, nor do I have any plans to on my desktop, thus Linux support for it matters less to me then your meaningless opinion.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Happy Trails,
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
The Antec case is too big, it falls off the back of your other home theater components. And why use a Radeon? Who wants to *only* upscale DVDs to HD resolution? Isn't the point of watching HD being able to receive HD broadcasts too?
Alternative configuration:
Mini-ITX system (the case will fit on top of the TV) like those from casetronic.com, with a VIA 800 or better.
MyHD HD Tunerboard (will upscale DVDs and tune HD/SD broadcasts).
VGA to component breakout cable connected from the MyHD's output directly to your set.
Install XP or 2K, put the MyHD IR control app in the winblows startup folder, and never look at the windows desktop again, since the MyHD has an OSD on the HD output.
With this config you can tune HD broadcasts and upscale DVDs for less.
Are you going to watch DVDs on a 17" monitor?
Are you going to use your $50 3-piece Altecs as a sound system?
The fact remains that the components of a home theatre that CAN'T be integrated into an affordable PC are going to be the majority of the system's cost anyway. So then the question remains: Why?
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
The main reason for building one is picture quality. With an HTPC, you can output your DVDs to the TV through DVI instead of composite, S-Video, or component. This will give you a much better picture quality. Also, as others said, you can use it for more than just DVDs - DivX, HD content in WM9 or Pixlet, games, web surfing, etc. I got 1TB of storage to store all of my DVDs on my HTPC, so I can just scroll through them on the TV, and play the one I want, instead of taking one from the DVD rack, and putting it in the DVD player, then waiting for it to read the DVD, etc. There are a few DVD players coming out these days with DVI ports on them, but they are just about as expensive (or sometimes more expensive) than building an HTPC. They also don't give you all the extra benefits.
www.mythtv.org
Available via a knoppix cd ISO
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html
Why.. because you can.. because it's mostly free.. because you control what it does and how it functions and what and when you want to upgrade the software.. what other reasons do you need.
There's no reason to build a computer yourself as long as there's a commercially available solution that's as good. I mean, true that Alienware might cost 3 grand for something you could build for 1.5 grand, but of course it's worth it because we're all consumer whores.
There are plenty of reasons to build a HTPC, the most obvious one being that you can make it do exactly what you want how you want it. And of course there's price. I'm presonally thinking of building myself a HTPC off of the VIA Mini-ITX boards. I think I can get it down to the size of about two DVD-Roms thick (one for the actual drive, one for the mobo) with a flash-based hard drive.
I have a friend with a good projector monitor for all his entertainment needs. I think that looks like the right way to go if I was going to get a better tv. Of course I'm sure that someone here can point out some technical merits to owning a HDTV
this sig is deprecated
If the PC goes down, so does your entertainment system. The more uses you have for your PC, the greater reliability you have on it. This makes down time that much more of an issue. Take that as opposed to having an actual entertainment center. Sure, your DVD player might go on the fritz, but you can still watch tv without worrying about your PC having problems.
Why build your own PC?
Why build your own car?
Why build your own house?
Why do any of the above when you can just purchase the finished product outright which might be better than what you could build? Because we can.
For you, the resolute do-it-yourselfer, may I recommend the Dentist in a box
You thought I was joking? its for real, folks
Dogma - "let's just say we'd like to avoid any empirical entanglements."
rofl , someone mod up. that never gets old! i love head :-)
I own a Power Mac G4 MDD 2-processor system connected to an Apple 17-inch digital LCD display. On it, I have the TiVo-like device EyeTV, which allows me to watch conventional cable or antenna TV, and record any show, allowing me to save the programs later, burning them to DVD, as a QuickTime movie, or as a Video CD.
So, I've been waiting for video cards with HD tuners to arrive. It's inevitable. For one, getting this for me will be cheaper than getting a full HDTV for the time being, because I will not want to skimp on the type and size of TV I want for the household. Another reason is that my computer's screen, while not perfect as Apple's 23-in HD Cinema Display, is suitable enough for a clear, digital signal.
I suspect that El Gato or other companies will make and sell HD tuner video cards that also support conventional stuff (VGA, conventional TV tuners, etc.) just for the geeks. Most normals will simply drop into Best Buy, buy a TV, and be done with it. For me, however, I want all the mods, baby, and the ability to burn, burn, burn. A conventional HDTV, no matter how nice it looks, can't do it, and I don't want to add yet another computer connected to it to try to get recordings. I'm a one-computer kind of guy in daily use (though I collect plenty of them for nostalgia).
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
You may as well ask why we code or why we breath! We do it because we can, because we have to. We do it because it DOESN'T Say TiVo or Replay or Phillips or whatever on it. It's a plain beige or silver or purple or neon green box with OUR parts in it. The ones we selected, running the software with the features that WE want. If we want a terabyte of storage so we can capture our HDTV in in TP streams and leave them in TP streams, we CAN! When the we have problems or run into limitations in the software, we can ask 'WHY' and not have to call 'tech support'. We can email the developer directly and ask 'WHEN' it will it be fix? CAN I test the beta? I can use Open Source, you can use commercial, we can use whatever we want.
Our HTPCs live and die by OUR hands, with the features we want. They are not decided by committee or some tech-stunted marketing/PR puke who is listening to the results of some focus group from Dubuque or Hackensack or Omaha. We the TiVos of the world surpass our humble HTPCs some day? I hope they do. I hope they look at what we are doing with our PCs and say "that's a cool feature, let's steal it."
Why don't you just ask why Woz built the Apple I or why Linus decided to hack minux. Why indeed.
GRIZZ
So i've been running an htpc for a bit, and i love it.
In fact, even my wife loves it.. which is a feat
I used it for mp3 playback, streaming mp3's, dvd upsampling and playback and television watching. I use a 100 hour directtivo for pvr stuff.
It's an athlon 1800+, 512 megs of ram, radeon 9000, guillemot soundcard with hacked drivers running optical out to the receiver
It's in an antec sonata, and is using zalman cooling stuff for everything.. the vidcard has no fan.. That machine is quieter than the tivo.
It's all running vga straight back to an infocus x1 projector showing on a 92" vutec silverstar screen
I control it all with a gyration ultra mouse/kbd combo
Software wise, i use zoomplayer with the cinemaster video codecs going through ffdshow for dvd playback and dscaler for tv watching. It's all running xp professional because i'm not particluarly linux savvy.
That setup has replaced my television completely. dscaler does a wonderful job of managing the tv signal, and zoomplayer is just phenomenal.
When we did LOTR:TT extended cut, i ripped both discs to the hard drive, added in trailers on the front end, psa's from the 60's, and spliced in a 10 minute dancing candy intermission in the middle.
Just hit play, and it goes magically.
The only complaint i have is the lack of useful hdtv cards. You can receive ota signals, with minimal pvr support, but that's it. Nobody supports signal over cable lines, or anything fancy.
I assume i'll need some sort of gray market hardware in the future to do that..
Oh yeah.. the total cost of all of this was less than a decent lcd hdtv set.. and you get a whole lot more..
If you can't convince you're wife/significant other with the raw windows/linux interface, look at some of the frontends. I used myhtpc (myhtpc.net) for a bit, and it was first rate..
I abandoned it since my wife is savvy enough to figure it out herself..
For more info, go to avsforum.com and read their htpc forums.. or linux htpc forums as you desire..
Highly recommended.
Linux / MythTV / Athlon 2500+ / 200GB / 512MB
I now watch shows when *I* want. PLUS Instant Weather, WebTV (sort of) and news feeds. It plays CDs, (burn too) DVDs, MP3s, Winamp lets me stream all kinds of radio / video content from the web. Visualizations on the TV make for great ambience at a party. Answers the fone / caller ID. Web Server / Programming / Remote X sessions via XDMCP.
It's also great for learning music (I'm a bass player) because Winamp works well with a keyboard.
I have it running dual headed with an LCD screen on my coffee table / scan converter to the TV so I get the best of both worlds. I have a wireless keyboard with integrated mouse.
Left to do: get winamp to run under Wine. Get the IR remote to work. Might want more than basic cable to make full use of the PVR.
Don't need a subscription service to get listings.
Wouldn't trade it for anything else.
If I had to do it all over, I might build a BIG box in my basement to do the capturing / storage and stream the content to the smaller "satelite" computers around my house.
Ok - I'm done showing off - but you asked what the point was. I guess that's the point...
cheers
It's too short, first page of ten.
the full one is there
I have an Xbox with a modchip and it works great for the following:
* Watch regular DVDs
* Play Xbox games
* Play NES, SNES, and MAME arcade games (that you already own of course . . . wink wink)
* Make my friends and family watch boring vacation slideshows (pics are on the computer in the other room)
* Internet radio
* Listen to my own MP3 collection
The list goes on. And you can set something like this up for under 200 bucks nowadays.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Just get an xbox and install XBMP, it does it all.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
The article is a good primer on why to use an HTPC. I just finished putting together a Home Theater mainly for watching DVDs. The PC is outputting to a Sanyo Z1 projector which is 960x540 native to a 95" diag screen. With an HTPC I can make sure that the PCs output is EXACTLY the right resolution and refresh rate, completely bypassing any resolution scaling that the Projector will do. With anamorphic DVDs and using Powerstrip, Zoomplayer and FFDShow (under Windows, sorry *nix guys!), I can upsample DVDs to play in 960x540 and tweak the image so that my HTPC outputs a picture that will rival $2000 pro-level DVD players. An HTPC will also allow for outputting true 1080p (mainly through WM9, ugh...). Its not trivial to set up, so a complete newbie may be better served with a nice set top DVD player. But if you want excellent output for cheap, go HTPC!
BTW, I'd love to do this under Linux, but havn't found a player that has the crazed level of customization that Zoomplayer/FFDShow has. Any suggestions?
It has great TV-out, an expandable hard disk, a 100 MBit ethernet port, available remote control, and is very rugged and portable. Not to mention the availability of emulators for MAME, PSX, N64, SNES, GameBoy, etc. And of course there's native Xbox games, which can be played right off the hard-disk!
BTW, M$ takes a loss on each one.
Don't do anything yourself. Buy everything from a company that's already built it for you. Don't learn how to cook. Drive to the fast food drive through and buy your meals from them. Don't think. Buy your thoughts from someone else.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
If you have to ask, there's no hope. Welcome to slashdot, where everybody does geeky stuff because it's l337, not because it has to be functional.
Link: "Media Ready 4000"
They are calling it an "interactive convergence product...hmmm - All I'm looking for is a way to centralize the media functions (i.e. DVD, MP3, etc) so I don't have to blow the speakers in the den to listen to a song while I'm in the pool...
In all honesty, I think it has 95% of the features most /.ers are looking for, albeit it lacks the DIY aspect.
The website says it was scheduled for Release in Dec 2003, but I've yet to see where I could buy one... Anyone know where I can pick one up?
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Adopt a troll today,
It's fun and profitable!
for more info please go here
Building a working HTPC is about the journey as much as the destination. Like other hobbies (woodworking, for instance), projects like this are a good excuse for buying cool new components (tools).
Why build your own PC?
I built my HTPC with an Athlon 2600, 1 gig ram, 240 gig of drives, ATI 9600 (HD Output), Hauppauge vid capture for under $1,000. I got to rewind and pause Janet's boob all I wanted and Tivo never knew.
Why build my own car?
Ummm, exactly how many people are doing this? I haven't seen that many home built ones on the road. Restored yes, home built no.
Why build my own house?
So I can configure room layout, ceiling heights, carpets, windows and all the extras that don't cost much to change *before the house is built*
Why do any of the above? Because I just ain't average enough for the prebuilt stuff
Do you have a website I can read?
1) Time-shifting rented DVD's is nice (I don't always watch them right away).
2) Time-shifting TV is the ONLY way to go.
3) Music ripper/jukebox with fancy visuals is nice.
4) Mplayer compatible video player works out great for viewing new episodes of Red vs. Blue.
5) Web browsing.
6) DVD burning.
7) Expandable.
8) Upgradeable.
9) Skinnable.
There are certainly a couple of trade-offs, like those times you realize xmltv needs to be upgraded AFTER you've missed recording your favorite program. But if your a Slashdot geek these problems should be right up your alley. Anyone belly aching about the cost or convenience of a HTPC is probably not up for it. But for those of us who are, the additional features and flexibility will trump any store bought PVR any day (and if it doesn't, well just write the extra software!).
Note to potential HTPC do-it-yourself article writers: Use either Mandrake, Gentoo or Debian (if your new to Linux or don't like configuring things yourself: Mandrake). You'll save a lot of time because you can install all the neccisary packages to run MythTV from a single command (ie 'urpmi MythTV' if you've set up PLF or Thacs rpm archive). Its REALLY not that difficult, but if you don't enjoy this sort of project (challenge?) why waste your time. Btw, Hauppauge's WinTV-250 is the way to go (at least for the MythTV project).
Quack, quack.
I now have complete control over my entire mulitmedia experience, because everything is being done in one box. It's been a lot of fun getting everything to work together. So why did *I* do it? Because I'm a geek who loves to do it myself.
Aych tea tea pea colon slash slash slash dot dot org slash
Finally, I settled on buying a computer to do all of this. I had quite a few of the parts I needed; the only thing I was missing was an OTA tuner card, the DVD software, and the sound card. I already had decided on Windows XP (which I will explain below), so I was set.
The DVD software I went with was called TheaterTek and the benefits it had over a standard player are numerous:
- Ability to resize any move to any resolution including 1080i
- Ability to expand the movie to get rid of the black bars around the edge (i.e. anamorphic widescreen)
- Ability to save these changes for each individual movie
- Using Windows to further enhance the output using various filters (i.e. fdshow filters)
The output from this setup was incredible. Watching DVDs at 1080i with the image cleaned up is so much better than 480p. I highly recommend it.The other problem was getting the actual HD content from the main networks. Locally in Omaha, NE ABC, CBS, and NBC have been broadcasting in HD for a while, so an OTA tuner was the way to go. A stand alone box was going for $600 locally, and I had found a card that does it for $200, the MyHD OTA Tuner Card. The picture quality is incredible and the performance was great on my 850 Duron. It gave me everything the set top box would have done and also Tivo like functionality out of the box, something that still isn't available for HD yet.
As I mentioned before, I went with Windows XP as everything mentioned above is only available for that platform. Also, due to the mature video drivers on Win32 vs. Linux for the ATI card I went with, I was able to tweak more aspects of the output to the HD monitor through a program called Powerstrip. I tried DVD playback on Linux (mplayer), but it had no where near the functionality of the Theatertek software. Also, I did look into the pcHDTV card available, but it isn't nearly has mature as it should be for a commercial HD tuner card (the only user fiendly app I have found, MythTV, has very limited integration with the pcHDTV card. That is changing quickly, though).
All in all, I highly recommend making a HTPC if you have the time. Plus, you don't need that Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition crap to make it work, just plain old XP will do you fine.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
Try writing off a tivo on your tax forms. You can write off a computer as a work related expense... Yes, I am posting this anonymously for a reason :)
The author says this HTPC does what Tivo does, but it cannot. It does not have software to download television listings and intelligently parse them based on user preferences. This elaborate P.C. setup cannot be told to even do basic Tivo tasks such as "record all showings of my favorite show".
This is not an equivalent device.
The number one reason for me to build my own Linux-based PVR is privacy.
Did you know that Tivo tracks not only what shows you watch, but exaclty what parts of shows you replay or skip over?
Now, I know it's *supposed* to be anonymous. And I do believe them when they say they aren't selling the data *at the moment*.
I also know they have systems in place to anonymize the data.
But can you (or Tivo) guarentee that they will *never* be bought out be someone less ethical?
Can you guarentee that Tivo won't get a new CEO who decides selling your viewing habits to direct mail advertisers is more lucrative? (Imagine if Darl McBride went to Tivo instead of SCO).
That's my biggest reason for me to put together my own PVR.
Of course, there's also flexibility. I get to decide exactly what capabilities I want, not the marketing department of a profit-motivated company.
I read a quote that TiVo used its "technology" to measure viewing habits during the SuperBowl. I hate the idea that someone would be metering my viewing habits...so doing it myself is even more optimal.
man rtfm
Even though the metric it tracks by is 'postal code,' and therefore not very resolvable to an individual, and even though you can turn this functionality off?
Me, I'd want TiVo to know exactly what I'm watching, so that said shows won't get cancelled for lack of viewership.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Since this was posted A.C., it doesn't appear to be a case of Karma whoring, and even if it where, I would gladly give up the mod points to view the article.
Chances are the moderator(s) who marked the parent to this post redundant, will not see this comment of mine. But I for one appreciate the effort to include the text so all can see. Perhaps the moderator(s) thought the text had already been posted in full (it hadn't). Even so, this was a very early post and should have been given the benefit of the doubt that earlier article text postings hadn't shown up yet.
Save negative mods for when they are really needed.
Like the guidelines say, focus on modding up.
Thankfully, most moderators modded this up informative, not redundant.
Letter To Iran
I built a HTPC for several reasons.
The area where I live doesn't offer a PVR with the cable receiver box. This is important because you want the box to turn on and switch to the correct channel to start recording (why didn't I go with any of the satellite boxes that do? cause they're all a bunch of cheap bastard aholes that's why). With a HTPC you can use 3rd party software like girder and the serial port or IR port to control the cablebox. Yes I know you can just set the cablebox to turn on and change to the correct channel but what if you forget? You're screwed..... unless you have a HTPC. With a HTPC, you can actually, connect to it and schedule stuff you forgot to schedule.
Another reason is clutter, all these devices take up space I don't have to spare. I can consolidate down to 1 box instead of a PVR, DMR, DVD player.... although I still prefer to have a standalone dvd player... the point is I CAN consolidate down.
Another plus is all the stuff you record can be transfered to other devices or shared with other people... uh not that I condone such things.
Just MHO
Concern: Privacy.
According to Reuters or, if you prefer, CNN, that moment was not only the most viewed and re-viewed slice of airtime for the Superbowl time slot, but for ALL time slots since they've been monitoring their customers' viewing habits. Now, I'm no member of the tinfoil hat club, but I think someone even suggesting that they should be able to or should attempt to analyze what I watch (via broadcast TV no less!) with OR without my permission is just a little creepy. Wal-Mart's taking it on the chin for proposing a tracking system for products they sell, but at least they've got a plausible business-related reason for it (not to mention the tech's "out there in the future" somewhere so we'll supposedly have a chance to develop societal guards against it's misuse. Mmm hmm. And I wonder how many geeks added a "kill switch" to their OnStar box last week just to make sure those "private moments" remained private...)
Solution: Do-It-Yourself
"watch DVDs, TV, play CDs and MP3s, fake Tivo, Fax machine, answering machine all from my PC."
:)
You forgot teleconferencing, talking on the phone(VOIP)..and computer stuff (stream video, surf web, check news/stocks, games)
" All controlled via remote and piped to my TV."
See..right there..teeveee...
Try 'lcd projector' and 6.1 speakers for full-wall jaw-droppingness at less cost than rear-projection teevee of half the size.
**for bonus points bring said projector and laptop to party for MTV video wall/music
***for extra bonus points leave porn on laptop to be 'accidentally' discovered by open minded women you know at the party and watch a drunken mini-orgy break out...and they say background sex isn't infectious
Apple Computer.
Thanks for the link to MediaReady 4000. Very useful.
Do you know how it compares to Interact-TV's MC1000?
Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
Question, what's the best way to get video from your PC (with DVI, VGA, and SVHS-out) to your HDTV that doesn't have a DVI input? I'm trying to sort out the myriad adapters, but I'm hesistant to order something blindly hoping it will look better than the SVHS-out I am currently using (not too good a picture for playing games with SVHS on my HDTV).
TIA...
"Because we can"
Then I want my own gene-splicing / mutation / cloning lab
[pinky to the mouth]
muahahahaha
muahaHAHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA
Just barely. An HTPC really is a good deal, depending on what you're trying to do.
It depends entirely on what you want to do. Consider my situation-- I had an HD-ready set, and wanted an OTA tuner and the ability to record HD broadcasts digitally.
Like a lot of people around here, I had an old PC laying around doing nothing. I bought an HDTV tuner card for $120 (used, new would have been $199) and stuck it in. Now I can record 10 hours of HDTV, and tune my local stations. A standalone tuner box would have been a minimum of $300, and the ability to record (maybe with a digital VCR) would have been another $300.
The MyHD MDP-100 tuner card has the nice side effect of being able to play back DVDs, and upscale the output to 1080i or 720p digitally. And because it's a hardware MPEG card, it doesn't need much of a system to run it. A PIII and 128MB of PC100 is well more than it really needs.
It wasn't $700 or $200, though-- it was $120. Aesthetically, it fits entirely behind the TV, and the one case fan isn't too noisy. Because I only use it for 2 or 3 shows a week, it's off the rest of the time and noise is not an issue.
Down the road, I'll build a better system-- but heck, even at $700, it beats out a 1080i DVD player (or standalone scaler and normal DVD), OTA HD tuner, and HD recording solution price-wise. A $30 ATI dongle lets me play PC games on the big screen in HD, too, so add an XBox with a component kit to that list.
They really can be price-competitive with a lot of other things, and a good quiet case and heatsink with underclocked CPU can really give you some advantages you can't get without spending a TON of money to do it another way.
When the HD Tivo is $300, *then* I'll have something to switch to. (but it still won't do the games, DVD scaling, or archive the HD shows to Xvid or WM9-- so my HTPC will probably soldier on.)
Why build one?
I have a Panasonic AE100. It is the same resolution as DVDs 8??x484. Sure, I can trust my DVD to give me the best quality, but I know something that it doesn't... I know the exact size of my screen pixel for pixel. With a computer I not only can get pixel for pixel the best quality out of the projector but I can also put movie trailers and such on before a movie... for real geek appeal. Not to mention that it is cool.
The home theatre was already there. I had an HD-ready set, and a receiver. I also had my girlfriend's old gutted gateway PC just sitting around. I bought a MyHD MDP-100 HD tuner card (I got a used one for $120, but new is only $199 last time i looked).
The cheapest I could have managed the ability to tune HD would have been a $300 set-top box. That doesn't count the cost of adding recording ability, a digital scaling 1080i DVD player, or the ability to play games on the big screen. To be fair, the games required me to scrounge an old radeon and buy the $30 HD dongle from ATI. Nontheless-- the cheapest, bare-bones HD tuning solution was still more than DOUBLE the cost of sticking an HD card in a PC, and gaining both HD tuning and recording.
Still, there was absolutely no cheaper way to get HDTV into my system than the HTPC route. Not by a long shot.
If you don't have an old PC handy (it doesn't have to be much-- a hardware MPEG card does all the work) it will cost you more-- but I'd argue that you still won't find HD tuning, HD recording, and digital DVD scaling to 1080i for the cost of a cheap (or used) PC and an HD card.
Hewlett-Packard.
not really because it does any more than my regular DVD player - a Malata 520 region free player with progressive scan, optical and coax digital audio and even a VGA connector but for another reason.
:(
I can replace the DVD drive in the PC if it happens to stop working or if there are new formats available. I don't need to incorporate another player to our entertainment system or deal with any changes in how it works. When the drive in the stand-alone player quits it becomes basically disposable.
The HTPC can also play downloaded MPEG and other video files on the television or to any screen I would decide to attach, plays MP3s through the stereo and even can play audio and video files over the network from a computer in another room. I can also view web pages or digital photos or anything else I'd like to see in a larger screen or to share with others.
The only downside I can think of quickly is that running Windows it needs to be rebooted (regularly) on occasion. Oddly enough the Malata also needs a power cycle if we play a music CD on it and its built-in screen saver starts up. DVDs viewed after playing a CD remain cut off on all sides on the Malata 520
Here is my DVR system. Actually, it's two systems. My DVR has a 1.4 Athlon, 256 megs of RAM, 10 gig HD for apps and OS, 80 gig for MP3s, 160 RAID-0 partition for recording, 120 HD for video storage/playback, and an ATI All-in-Wonder 8500DV. It's connected under the floor to the TV/receiver in my living room. Thus, you cannot hear it from the living room.
My second system is a cheap PIII 550 with an 80 gig HD. It too holds my MP3 collection and is primarily for playing music. However, it too is connected to the living room TV and reciever and can play previously recorded content via the network. Thus, when the DVR is recording something, I can still play music or watch shows.
Also, the music computer has two soundcards. Winamp uses my Audigy2 and everything else uses a cheap Hercules card. Thus, I can even listen to music while someone else is watching a recorded show!!!
Also, that music computer is wired to nearly every receiver to the house, so I can listen not only from the living room, but from the kitchen, bedroom, etc. (I'm working on getting the bathroom's wired with speakers.) And I should point out that ATI's Remote Wonder works throughout my huge two-story farm house.
With my homebuilt DVR systems, I can do the following:
1. Record shows, edit out the commercials, and burn them to DVD.
2. Pause, rewind, and fast-forward live TV.
3. Know what's currently on TV and what's coming up. (With ATI's Guideplus/EasyView software, included with its All-in Wonder cards.)
4. Access my entire 900+ CD collection in MP3 format from nearly every room in the house. (Via TightVNC.)
5. Create a playlist of ALL my favorite songs, which I can access with one button from my Remote Wonder. That playlist is over four days long; it's like having my own radio station!
5. Normalize the volume of my CD/MP3 collection via my Audigy 2 card. That's important. A roommate had one of those 200 disc CD players, but considering that nearly every CD has a different volume, I considered it worthless.
6. Rip my DVD collection so I can play them back without all the FBI crap, from nearly every room in the house.
7. And most importantly, I do not have to pay a monthy service, or have it randomly record shows it feels I might want to watch.
Sure, my system probably cost a lot, (I built them both out of mostly spare parts) but considering it does exactly what I want and there is no commercially available alternative, I find it extremely valuable. Heck, even my wife can use it!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I built one as my HDTV has a VGA input and supports 1280X720(720p) without upconversion to 1080i. That made it very easy. I save my DVD's to my hard drive. If I'm watching TV, any movie in my collection is just 3 clicks away. I also use it to steam audio when friends are over. The best part, something everybody hates me for, is that I can whip out the wireless keyboard and use Google to prove to people that they're talking out of their ass. I'm a huge fan of racing simulators http://sourceforge.net/projects/motorsport/ and the widescreen display is perfect for that type of gaming. If you don't have a HDTV that supports 720p natively or just have a non-HDTV I wouldn't reccomend it.
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
Plain and simple, tuning and recording HDTV is still freaking expensive. A $500 computer and $200 HD tuner card gets you all the functionality of:
1. HD tuner (standalone cost, $300+)
2. HD recorder/PVR (standalone cost, $400+)
3. 1080i/720p DVD player (standalone cost, $250)
4. PC games in HD on big screen (closest comparison is an XBox with an HD kit-- $200)
5. A high-end scaler/filter box for HD video. ($500+)
This link has all the info you need on why you should go HTPC. http://www.hometheaterdiscussion.com/forums/forumd isplay.php?&forumid=27
I personally run one and dont see myself moving to another video source until something better comes out.
He's right, and not just about pr0n; there are lots of activities that are better on a huge screen. If you decide not to hook up a TV tuner, it's still fun.
Sorry sparky, but XBMP on an outdated 700MHz system can't hold a candle to a real live modern HTPC.
Three words: Better customer support.
Your setup is very similar to mine. I use a MyHD card to output to the set as well.
But I wanted the desktop, too. So I bought a couple of VGA->Component RCA breakout cables and set things up like this:
Radeon HD Component Dongle -> Component RCA to VGA breakout cable -> MyHD VGA input
and
MyHD VGA output -> VGA to Component RCA breakout cable #2 (just like your current setup.
All this does is allow you to use the handy source switching built in to your MyHD card to toggle between 1080i desktop from the Radeon, and 1080i video from your MyHD card. Works like a charm.
Cables available here:
Short cable for connecting your Radeon to your MyHD
Long cable for connecting your MyHD to your HDTV's component input
With a few cables, you can do what the above poster did AND still have your desktop. Pressing the "HD" button on your MyHD remote will toggle between desktop and video.
I seriously doubt if anybody has a monitor bigger than my 42" HDTV-ready projection TV
We've set up far larger in the lab and for tradeshows. There are many Network Control Centers and high end users with monitors that are equally 'large'.
Want to see an outdoor example? Visit downtown Tokyo any day of the week...there is really no limit to how large a 'desktop' can or should be.
My HTPC has no TV tuner, no need for commercial skipping. Everything i watch comes off bit torrent. Why should i pay for a tivo? its not compatible with my network, i cant repair it when it breaks, and i have no use for 99% of its features.
Take control over your life, give up the airwaves. the advertisers have won, and the spoils of war are a million empty minds.
Rather than computer. I did try though...in a quest for superior picture quality. I assumed that the computer would provide a better picture quality than my non-progressive scan DVD using the onboard iDCD Farjuoda de-interlacer chip set in my InFocus X1 projector. I was wrong. I did hook up my iBook to my MOTU 828 interface I use for music recording this was to get 5.1 audio out of the iBook. The MOTU has 24 bit decoders and optical out which went in nicely to the Sony amp. Anyway....from studying deinterlacers and how exactly DVD's are played back, mastered and what the aspect ratios and frame rate of film I concluded the quality of the DVD image resides in 1. the mastering technique, i.e. Film to digital transfer method used 2. The quality of the print used in the mastering 3. And the sophistication of the de-interlacing. Most progressive DVD players have deinterlacing chipsets that take the information from the DVD produce a progressive scan image. The quality and sophistication of these chipset varies greatly. Do some googles on "deinterlacing chipset". In addition they also provide proprietary functions to reduce and eliminate digital artifacts that are the result of image processing. When I used my iBook to play back the image I did get a higher resolution image but it was harsh and very non-film like. The deinterlacer built into the projector is designed to produce a "film like" quality to the image. Taking great pains to reduce the rainbow effect and other artifacts like pixelation, jaggies and chroma abberations that result form the hardware and convertsion. So keep in mind watching films on DVD's is a much different activity than watching HDTV. Film is an art is for the most part is still an analog process (barring the increasing number of digitally shot movies like 28 Days Later that was later converted to film) So having seprately engineered components to produce the appropriate signal is inherently going to be better. A DVD player to watch movies, HDTV tuner to watch HDTV and a monitor capable of producing quality images from a variety of sources is the way to go. That is if you are really picky about what hits the back of your eyeball.
...and I seriously doubt it will be anything more than a blip in the HTPC market.
The mini-ITX form factor is a definite positive, virtually ensures quiet operation.
Any discoveries on the MSRP of the Telly unit? I do know the MR4000 was expected to be in the USD 400 price range.
I'd really like to try one of these two units out, they seem to have the ability to do everything I need.
Thanks for the insight.
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You privacy freaks just kill me. You claim to spend a gazillion bucks building a system with a free operating system and with free, but only sketchily functional software so that nobody can track you, yet you buy it all with a credit card over the Internet...or you pull the money out of the bank with your ATM card. Or you write a check and show your driver's license.
And you worry that Tivo might know that you were fixated on Janet Jackson's boob? Talk about misguided priorities! And the moderators who scored you as insightful are almost as whacked as you are!
One major requirement for this sort of thing, or any 'appliance'-like PC, should be that it is (nearly) instantly ready for use when you switch it on. That means you shouldn't have to wait for it to boot, nor have to select fuctions (playing dvd's, playing a file from disk) using a mouse/keyboard in an awkward position. If it's to be a true appliance, it should
- boot instantly
- be fully controllable using a remote control
Are there any good solutions that will let you boot a PC instantly? (from flash, perhaps).
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Buy one 20 years old and fix it up, bit by bit. In 5-10 years, if you've been careful, and barring catastrophe, you will not have lost a cent.
Same deal with home theatre. You can go out right now and drop a wad of cash on a consumer grade turnkey system. Or, you can go out right now and buy all the bits you need and build its equivalent, cheaper.
But if you'll notice, most of the people here who have checked in as having done this are doing it incrementally. Start with what you have lying around, or maybe buy 1 or two bits and pieces, then as time goes on you can add this, upgrade that.
This way you're not zapped with a big upfront cost, you get to have fun doing it and you learn about how this stuff really works more so than just reading about it someplace.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Linux (read: VDR) is the only solution that supports digital TV, a.k.a. MPG-DVB. Microsoft etc. do not. Plus it let's you record multiple programs at the same time using multiple DVB cards, cutting out ads and much more. Plus it is free :-)
MythTV
Find me a third party DVR that does all that!
If I may ask why are you considering SVCD?
In my pre-DVD-R days I used to toy around with SVCD compression, and all the nightly conversions really switched me off to SVCDs, plus the fact that they could only hold about an hour of good quality video.
Have you considered DVD-Rs?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
to control your home theatre of course... duh
I'm probably not unique here but the main reason for me to have a HTPC is because I have such a small appartment that I don't have room for a PC and HT system. The PC sits in the living room and acts as a answering machine, DVD player, TV, etc. However I will say that I am not too impressed with the HTPC that I built. DVD playback isn't optimum, if it has trouble it can sometimes take for ages to get past a trouble spot on the disc. TimeShifting isn't all that great, voice and video are never in sync. TV is ok. PVR is not as easy to set up recordings, you'd think being a computer with so much freedom of interface that they would be able to do it right. Asus P5 MB ATI AIW 8500DV ATI remote (ok but doesn't work with all programs.) SB Audigy with digital link to Digital Speakers Sony DVD Rom Sony 21" Monitor (Enough for my small apartment) Software: ATI DVD player (Has problems dealing with trouble spots on DVDs.) ATI TV (time shifting isn't top notch.) ATI's CD player I have issues with so I end up using winamp 2. I have issues with winamp 3. I use the computer for development and art so it is used as a computer as well.
Why do any of the above? Because I just ain't average enough for the prebuilt stuff
:)
*UP*
Some of us prefer to be atypical
I'm building one as we speak, so I know a little more than most hearsay going on right now.
For not much more money, you can have the same exact performance, plus the added bonus of _burning_ recorded tv to dvd/vcd..
People saying it's expensive forget that as long as you have a hardware decoder, you're processor could literally be a pII.. hardware decoders do all the number crunching you need. the biggest requirement in this whole thing being a HUGE HDD.
on to my setup, i'm using my actual PC for now, slowly gathering all the parts.
heres why someone would do this insttead of tivo: (ms already knows this, hence MCE.)
It's a tivo... it's a jukebox... it's a game console... it's A COMPUTER.
sure, if you think of it as just a tivo replacement, it's one hell of an expense.. but if you think of it as a PC with about $100 exta dollas wrapped up in it, it's one hell of a deal. Plus its very cool imho
So what if you already have a home server PC? This was my situation when I started to consider a tivo box. I thought it silly to have essentially two equivilant computers systems up 24/7. So I added the PVR function and TV video out to the PC.
Asthetics are not an issue as the PC sits in a closet. I pass remote control commands to it via a IR->RF->IR remote extender. The system is *almost* headless except for the TV. I run a long s-video cable from the PC to the TV for display and run MythTV for the PVR function. All up, the cost of adding PVR capability to the system was about $200 -- which included a cheap tuner/capture card and a 180 GB disk. Myth gives me free schedule updates and a very cool web based interface for programming the recordings. Even my wife is happy!
To do this from scratch is tougher. A budget for the system would be upwards of $800 or even $1000 to get a reasonable machine. Off the shelf may be better unless you already have a server. Take a gander at Here for pix of my *unfinished* HTPC.
Beyond integration, here are a few reasons why :
- No equivalent : sorry, but tivo is US only. Other PVR are just appearing now at very high costs. Built mine 1 year ago.
- P2P : which other devices let you download movies/games/audio for free ?
- Which self-respecting geek doens't have already a server running 24/7 at home ? Getting it HTPC just requires a TV Card.
- Integration : audio + video
+ pictures + news at your fingertips. From the same box. I may add as well games, but I don't use them.
- Network openness : samba for files, web-based remote controlling (heck, even wap-based for p2p)
#include "coucou.h"
The upsampled DVD is the more important feature in our HTPC today. Even if cost is no object, the HTPC approach to DVD can offer better picture quality than any stand-alone unit. DVDs are recorded with 480 lines of resolution, however it turns out that upsampling the video to a 720p or 1080i resolution for HDTV and HDTV-ready televisions will offer the best quality.
That's a load of crap. I have a SamSung unit that upconverts the DVD to 1920x1080, but that does nothing for the quality on a digital display. Why? Because the digital display upconverts the signal to it's native resolution.
These kiddies need to go back to HD School.
PS - If you are watching HD on a non-digital display, you might as well be watching HD on an etch-a-sketch. There is little point in 1920x1080 if you are staring at a 60Hz refresh and can see the wavery effect of any CRT over 32".
HDTV is still very new here are some major problems.
http
1) HDTV's are pricey when compared to a standard TV and most of them do not come with tuners in them. They are monitors only so you have to buy other components to use it.
2) Tivo does not have it yet http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=195
3) ReplayTV says they can out put to a HD ready TV but that is it.
Another choice is to build a standard TV DVR box. You could get away a lot cheaper by getting a tuner card that does MPEG2 encoding and cutting back on CPU, power supply, memory etc... Then later upgrade it with PC parts that today are good but in 2 years are someone?s junk.
Sample: 1.3ghz, MB, 256meg, costs less than $150 or get someone?s old desktop PC
Tuner card: $50-150 depending on quality
The standard open source choices are
http://www.mythtv.org/
with Knoppmyth making it easy
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html
http://freevo.sourceforge.net/
Some Pay options are
http://www.freytechnologies.com/sagetv.html
New $5,000 Multimedia Computer System Downloads Real-Time TV Programs, Displays Them On Monitor
The problem with ready-made solutions like TiVO is the lack of privacy and the lack of control. I don't want someone out there knowing what I watch, or being able to arbitrarily change the software running in my entertainment system.
I'm building a MythTV-based box to do PVR, watch DVDs, etc. Yes, it winds up being more expensive than running out and buying a commercial PVR. But it offers the same capabilities without giving up control.
(By "I am building" I mean that I have all of the software and supporting hardware installed on my desktop PC, and once I've gotten everything tweaked to my satisfaction I'll get a mini-ITX box and "deploy" it).
I don't necessarily care about faster, smaller, and cheaper. There are other totally legit reasons to DIY. The main reason I'd build my own is that I want it the way I want it. I'm not sure if any commercial product does exactly what I want. What do I want? Here are some things:
But I'd like to see more information about hardware encoding. I really would prefer hardware accelleration for my PVR. I'd like the review to include mythTV or other linux based solutions with maybe a table of what can do what. What can play dvd's. What can handle HDTV. What can support everything over optical audio out. What can handle music, (and lots of it. libraries in the 10's of 1000's and 100's of 1000's not just the 300 mp3's my dad downloaded). What can handle burning of recorded shows to dvd or VCD. What can handle media on other machines. And how well do different software solutions play with different hardware solutions. If I get an ATI all in wonder, an audigy 2, a Hauppauge hdtv tuner, a TDK DVD+-RW and throw mythtv on their is it all going to play nice together or is it going to be a disfunctional family christmas.
I do security
You told me to prove you wrong. Which I did. Some of the biggest innovations in this century came from garage inventors... who in turn went on to become big corporations.. But STARTED due to innovations that EXISTING BIG COMPANIES missed.
More proof?
Palm Pilots. Both Microsoft and Apple brought to market several handheld devices that failed in the market. Even with millions in backing. It took ONE guy who sat down and worked out a proper design to develop the Palm Pilot.
Okay, that's 3 companies that started from garages or from one individual.
Now show me YOUR proof of "innovation" by big companies.
Sure you can buy a ready made solution, but what happens when the new tech comes out? Is it upgradeable? I had a spare box sitting around, threw Linux on it, got a $10 GeForce2 with TV-out off of eBay and made a pretty damn cool digital movie player that I can ssh into and sftp movies to and from. Not only that, but I can run picture slideshows or fire up Mozilla and hit Bit Torrent sites on a 27 inch TV. I haven't messed with MythTV or Freevo yet. I'm looking to get a WinTV PVR card and set up HD recording, but my drive is only 20 gig (It's what I had laying around)
;) It's Linux! I'm now looking to upgrade the CPU because the movies are getting bigger and putting strain on my AMD 500. I fear that if I went with a proprietary solution, I'd be locked in. With this, I can build a cool case and keep upgrading here and there as I desire. I highly recommend it as a cool project that can be done at a very low cost.
It's a great solution. My girlfriend and I watch tons of movies on it every weekend. We usually have 5 or 6 downloads going at the same time. I know its expandable for new formats and new means of acquiring media. Plus it never crashes
Sig? No thanks man, I'm tring to quit.
I don't have a Radeon AIW 9600 or a 3Ghz processor gathering dust in my closet. I have a Voodoo Banshee card and a 300mhz Celeron in there.
Does anybody really have top-of-the-line parts just sitting around as spare parts?
There is no way in hell you can buy a TiVo with guide info for that price, but you're right, if I had to build from scratch, of course it would be cheaper to just go buy a TiVo. But most geeks have access to old computer parts.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Get a video capture card with onboard MPEG-2 encoding and you could build a MythTV box with a Pentium I ($130 for a Hauppauge-250 on ebay). Or better yet, get a video capture card with onboard MPEG-2 encoding and decoding ($180 for a Hauppauge-350 on ebay).
Still think you don't have the spare parts lying around? You don't need much CPU power or RAM (256MB is plenty) if all the encoding/decoding is on the capture card. Grab a PCI IDE controller for $10 and a 200GB drive (I've seen 'em as cheap as $100) and yer' set.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
High Definition Janet Jackson Nipple Shot!
Do you *need* any other reasons?
Any discoveries on the MSRP of the Telly unit? I do know the MR4000 was expected to be in the USD 400 price range.
You can buy the Telly MC 800 for about $750 but that's with 256MB of memory. Actually, you can configure everything directly on their website. I'm holding off until they include a DVD +RW because I have a small kid and would like to archive his videos in a convenient form.
Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
I've had this project going for a while. I started with an old p3-600 and 256mb of ram. and 200gb of hd space. and was just for dvd's and downloaded media.
since then i've upgraded to this:
winxp pro (not media center)
1.6ghz p4
1gb pc2700
2x80gb hd in raid 0 + 40gb
geforce 2 w/ tv tuner and s-video out
winTV PVR 250
sblaster live hooked up to home theater w/surround
bluetooth keyboard
dvd-r drive
it's set up with a dual display, one a 17" monitor by the couch, for chatting, surfing. and the video signal goes to the 27" tv across the room.
i can *tivo* shows with the wintv card. and wathch another channel with the geforce tuner. all while i download tv/movies/music from my p2p of choice. and i can stream almost all media across the network.
AND i can log in from work (or my favorite wifi hotsopt--the local bar--with my pda) with remote desktop to schedule a record or download something. so that it'll be ready for when i return home.
is it the cheapest solution? no. but it's FAR more versatile than anything at best buy. not that much more expensive. especially since i built it piecemeal overtime, from largely scavenged parts, supports ALL video formats, with a little tweaking an has nearly unlimited upgradability. also it wows all of the women who come over. it's the complete series of ds9 that makes them all wet.
it's not the easiest solution. it's caused alot of headaches. but it's been fun, and it's doing great these days.
just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
I have a normal AthlonXp 1900+ system in my "computer room" running W2k along with another, slower machine running OpenBSD 3.4-Current. I have a 10-meter long s-video cable and stereo audio cable going over to my living room, where they plug into my 6.1 surround stereo system and 32" widescreen TV. I have a wireless keyboard and mouse. what the heck would I do with a "htpc" ?
IMHO *the* issue with building a HTPC is how to get a decent video signal out of it. Video will almost always look better on an NTSC or HD television than a computer monitor. Computer monitors have a sharp response function that is tuned for single-pixel desktop graphics, not continuous video signals. This is why DVDs that look great on a TV often look crummy on a computer display.
Consumer graphics cards with "Video Out" are not acceptable because there is not a one-to-one mapping between VGA pixels and video samples. Nor is there any guaranteed synchronization to the video scan rate.
I consider a hardware video codec with a true *video* (digital, component or S-video) output essential for any PC to drive a television.
Another reason people build a HTPC is b/c, like me, they may be grad/students, living in a small room with space enough for a bed, a workstation, and bookshelf. As such, I turned my PC into something of mini-HTPC: 21" LCD display, Radeon AiW 9800 Pro, SB Audigy 2 ZS, and Logitech Z680 5.1 speakers. Granted the screen isn't theatre-size, but the sound is, and the convenience of using my workstation to work with during the week and then entertaining my gf with it on the weekend is quite nice. So don't forget students in your lists of why people make HTPCs.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
Why? Simple. The pure value of simply hacking something together.
Hack Value.
"As Louis Armstrong once said when asked to explain jazz: "Man, if you gotta ask you'll never know." (Feminists please note Fats Waller's explanation of rhythm: "Lady, if you got to ask, you ain't got it.")"
Tivo also offers lifetime subscriptions.
nuff said
streaming radio (ie: Shoutcast)
streaming video
ripping DVD's or CD's
although I do have to admit, it somewhat defeats the purpose of an "all-in-one" piece of equip...
Error encountered in IAWebSig.clsSig.Create: Last Procedure: sPrc_Ins_tblSig
The kitcar market is actually pretty large. Plenty of ferrari kits for Fieros and Hummer for trucks.
There is also a very large kitplane industry. Everything from plans to every part for biplanes to jets.
i have over 100 gigs of anime. over 50 gigs of feature films and over 20 gigs of star trek episodes and movies.
howd i get em?
download.
theres my reason
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
If you purchase a HDTV today that doesn't upsample a 480P signal to 1080i or 1080p, then you've been ripped off.
You don't need a PC to do it.
If I can get a discount card to shop where all of you /. technogeeks shop? Everytime something comes up that involves custom hardware solutions (much like this topic) I see countless people saying, "well I could build that for a hundred bucks or less...." or "prices on those have dropped to $30", but usually when I start to price the stuff....It is more realistic to what I originally thought costwise. Sure I could get a big old ugly ATX case with the sound of a screeching 747 and a 40 gig hardrive and celeron for $100-200...But in reality...to do something like this "the right way" would require a super small and asthetic case and mini board. You can bare bones that for about $200-$300 and then add another $100 for the CPU. Then you need a big and fast HD for about $100. A good recordable DVD for about $100. MPEG hardware encoders to do the PVR stuff are about $150. So in reality you are at least $600-$700 to have a start. Yet always some /.'s say that...."yea, I can do that for $100" and have money left over for pizza and beer.
/. math that comes from estimates based on people who are not actually buying the hardware....only estimating what they think something should cost.
I wonder how? Or am I the only one that has not figured out the
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Nobody has mentioned a thing I liked in the article. He points out in some detail that there are tricks requiring decryption of a DVD - I assume he's talking DeCSS that even most commercial products can't do, or don't do.
This is a terrific anti-DMCA argument, in the legal, not just moral, sense.
The Supremes let stand the existence of the VCR, that noted Boston Strangler of movie revenues, because of a single non-infringing use of recording: time shifting.
And here's this article mentions just in passing that a HTPC, using "piracy tools", can give the customer a fuller value out of his DVD purchase than anything available affordably that decodes the DVD legally. (And, "affordably" is important; Hollywood had no beef with the existence of $6000 studio VCRs).
The Johansen argument ("I wanted to watch it on my Linux box") wasn't convincing to a Windows person who'd never heard of Linux. Affordable solutions for "what can I do with this DVD" were available in the form of Windows and Mac software and for that matter $89 Sony players. The law need have no sympathy for Johansen wanting to see it on yet another platform.
But if I understood the article correctly, you can't get some of those very visible upsampling improvement features - an obvious real consumer benefit - ANY OTHER WAY than a PC using "piracy" tools.
And there's your one non-infringing use.
I run my computer to a 12' diagonal rear projection screen, using a Digital Projections DLP projector. For computer work it is readable with all lights on, and uses my far focus eyesight rather than near focus, which helps with eyestrain.
I used to run a noisy PC in the equipment room, but I then I found:
1) You can build a fanless PC (I used Signum Data components and modified them with more heat pipes... next step is to use the Zalman monster case.)
2) It is easier to run a long (with repeater) DVI cable for the projector than it was to run a long run Firewire for the DVD. In both cases you run USB2 repeater -- either for peripherals or the sound box.
It is amazing for videogames and DVDs, although the DVD quality is slightly lower than a dedicated high end system (Meridian DVD + Snell & Wilcox interpolator). But the HTPC is LESS expensive and more versatile.
Xbox does pretty much everything you'd want from a Media PC. Plus it's dirt cheap, AC3 and widescreen works without pain, you can play games and it looks like it belongs to your AV pile.
Now that you've written it, put it in your sig file.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Kit kars are one thing, mostly the exterior. Guess I was thinking of someone fabricating everything from the frame to the paint :doh!:
Haven't you guys heard of the concept of "hack
value"? Some people just like to do it themselves
to figure out how things work in more detail than
the ordinary point-and-drool kind of customer.
In my younger time, I had a top of the line Nvidia TNT2 Ultra the one with the fastest memory and the only one with tv out...made my wallet cry at the time, it was just out...) and a glorious PII350 (actually converted as firewall) with an additional MPEG Decoder card and...ahem...Win98...
Being just out of student stripend and just into "my money, my pleasures" I had the pleasure of watching dvds, vcds, svcds, Divxs and Anime in the main room
The pc was in the chamber, input was done with a wireless Logitech keyboard/mouse and the 9 feet emission limit over-ruled by 2* 5 meters PS/2 connectors...
It was a perfect solution, except for th 98 part..
Are you all telling me that what I could do quite easily some years ago with 98 is much more difficult to get at today ?
Think about investing into a long svhs cable and long audio cords, plug them into your tv/vcr/home Theater/whatever and you will be up and running in no time.
Also, if you want to do it faster, just use the good for nothing, average in everything Win2000...
It is actually easier than a linux solution...
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Somebody claim that this combo would improve the quanity a lot(Working with DScaler,blah blah). Any one tried with it? Did it really better?
Why hasn't anyone pointed out the obvious? DVI without the DRM is prettymuch only available to computers. Prosumer DVI-out DVD players do DRM. (Well, unless you're willing to risk a bizarre brand.)
Also, I use a Creative SoundBlaster USB. Why? External D->A means higher S/N. It works ok with my Powerbook, although the PB can't control much of anything on it.
I use a Powerbook 'cause it's damned quiet, much quieter than most PC's and 'cause I can use it for so much more than my home theater.
A $75 free-standing projector screen and some Martin-Logan electrostats make everything all nummy.