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Keyless Entries Fail In Las Vegas On Friday
Hoompini-Ting writes "Some accuse area 51, but in any case many folks were stranded when keyless locks failed or their car computers malfunctioned. No technical explanation but I'm sure slashdotters have theories. Similar to the failure in Seattle 3 years ago. See the Las Vegas Review-Journal for more details."
From the article:
Jerry Bussell, Gov. Kenny Guinn's adviser on homeland security, ruled out terrorism
It's amazing how, since 9/11, for every little problem in this country terrorism has to be ruled out...
[sarcasm]
We are talking about people that are unable to go in their cars, it's obviously a terrorist act...
[/sarcasm]
I just want to add a little something that IMHO makes sense here:
"Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament or a communist dictatorship... the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.
--Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshal and Luftwaffe chief at Nuremberg trials, 1945
Mod me down because I'm really off-topic.
Read this.
They are building keyless entry systems without physical keys as a backup measure?
Didn't we learn our lesson about manual over-rides long ago?
lysergically yours
Vegas was built upon a geographical oddity known as a bad luck epicentre. This is merely a cute manifestation of this bad luck phenomenon.
And that's also why I lost all my money there too.
...have you met Commander Bond?
this reminds me of those personal cellphone jammers that people have been buying... surely the same technology can be applied to the frequency of these keyless entry remotes...
just my 2 cents...
Investing forum
A weather baloon caused it, there is no need to worry!
Someone's probably just using an electromagnetic pulse device to rob a casino. Round up the usual suspects (Clooney, Pitt, etc.)
Estrada resorted to using his key to unlock his car door...
What is this world coming to?
So in one case there was a physical key as a backup system and when the guy resorted to using it (as though a key were some sort of desperate emergency measure) his car freaked out.
I'm no luddite, but this kind of stuff makes me laugh.
lysergically yours
My car is one of them," Ferguson said. "It's some kind of electrical disturbance. Either that or a nuclear bomb went off a few miles from here."
I'm betting it's an electrical disturbance because I don't think there would be much of him around otherwise.
If it were some weird electrical disturbance or whatever, wouldn't all the keyless entry systems be affected? I didn't get the assumption from the article that it was all of them, rather a small amount. I'd be curious to know whether or not all the ones that failed where in the same area, or if it was spread out over Vegas.
The intro quotes this as happening in Seattle 3 years ago...can anyone provide evidence?
No, I haven't searched with Google. I didn't make the allegation.
I'll create an amusing sig when I have something meaningful to post.
So now "they" have a device that effectively squelches a large frequencyband, temporarily. In either situation, this spells bad news. The dependencies on radiotraffic are getting bigger and bigger everyday, not including numerous electronical devices that suffer from it. This is like pirate radio, but on a much bigger scale...
"The military is certainly capable of fibbing about these things," Pike said. "But, for the military to have done it, they would have to have seriously miscalculated the effects of some test."
oh no.
I am blaming the military. Come to think of it, wouldn't it be possible to create a "Denial of Entry" by jamming those frequencies in a given area.
On the other side, that would make people actually open their doors by hand (what a concept!), they might loose some weight and build some muscle in the process too.
maybe the 2 rovers we sent to mars, ticked off the martians. they figured that why not tick off some people in the unluckiest place (LV) on the earth. :)
by the way, martians exist in different dimensions, so the rovers will not be able to see them
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Terry Bussell, Gov. Kenny Guinn's adviser on homeland security, ruled out terrorism...
Whew, that's a relief.
that some Ford, etc. systems use the same frequency as the military, so if it were a military cause, than perhaps only those keyless systems would be affected?
My best guess: it was a HAARP experiment.
I, for one, welcome our new Antichrist overlord.
Here's two dumb questions in a row:
Are governors asking their homeland security advisors whether everything could be terrorism now? "My toilet clogged up this morning...could that be terrorism?" Isn't that really time the governor could spend better, I don't know, say, whimpering underneath a desk in the fetal position, or playing golf, or even chewing gum?
How do they know it's not the result of terrorist action? Perhaps there are some acutely stupid terrorists, and this is the first strike against keyless entry...in a very small area of the world...which nobody really noticed. Maybe they're just stupid terrorists. Maybe their next plan is to have a terror blog. Maybe their next plan is to get shirts printed up with the word "Terrorist" emblazoned on the front.
-----------------------
You are what you think.
the y2k+4 bug rears its ugly head
I bought my last car just after a colleague had had problems with his keyless system - it started unlocking the doors every time a truck with a CB went past. As a result, I insisted on not having keyless entry. I'm beginning to think I should moderate my decision "Insightful".
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
From Rumor Mill News:
"... because no can leave!"
"... two men enter, one man leave... the Passion of THUNDERDOME!" ... sorry, Mel.
The article refers to the event (U.S. aircraft carrier docked near Seattle, similar electronic glitches were noted). So, RTFA.
My car doesn't have keyless entry so the idea of using the key to open the door setting off an alarm seems ridiculous to me.
I mean, if the lock could detect tampering like from a pick or a jiggler and THAT set off the alarm, it would seem reasonable to me. But if the person has a key that will open the door easily, doesn't the same key work in the ignition?
lysergically yours
I loaned my vehicle to a friend for a few days last night which was supposed to be returned around 10PM. Around that time, she called and was frantic because she was late and she could not disable the alarm to get into it. I had no idea what the heck was going on. Probably some SDI research gone awry. There is always wierd stuff going on here in the Las Vegas Valley. Vegas is a great place to live. Always something going on, always something interesting happening.
Whenever I'm in Manhattan near the Empire State Building my keyless entry is absolutely useless. I'm fairly confident that my poor little electronic key fob gets drowned out by the sheer volume of RF signals in the area. Probably the same sort of thing in Vegas only in a short burst.
Curse the FCC and part 15 of their rules.
Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
Well, this is probably the occurrence:m arch/03302mys tery.html
http://www.thesunlink.com/news/2001/
Sorry to all you conspiracy theory nuts, this happens all the time. The fact that it made the news surely indicates a slow news day. 30 people in a town of millions called a towing company for a lockout, oooooo! Many keyless entry systems operate around 430MHz. Anytime I transmit on 440MHz while sitting in a parking lot, I set off car alarms and laugh at the people press the crap out of the buttons on their keyless entry systems. Military over the horizon radar is broadband and around 430-440MHz. Anytime the Navy has a big boat in the area, the 440 repeaters are buzzing with radar noise, and low-end keyless entry systems can fail. Granted that Las Vegas doesn't have a whole lot of Navy vessels nearby, but they do have miltary there. On the other hand, it's more fun to blame it on Area 51
There is always a small panel near by with a red lever or wheel. Good thing car thieves aren't geeks.
Someone used a pinch. To quote Basher:
"A pinch creates a similar electromagnetic pulse, but without the fuss of mass destruction and death. So instead of Hiroshima, you'd be getting the seventeenth century."
Ok, I just wanted to post a quote from one of my favorite TV screen saver movies. Still, it's somewhat on-topic.
RW
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
RAF Fylingdales, on the North Yorkshire moors in England. They've had big problems with the poweful radar there (which will form part of the NMD system); cars that get too close have their alarms or engine immobilizers triggered. In the latter case, they have to be towed out of range of the radar. More about the story can be found here.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
With hysterical results.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
EMP weapons test.
/ 9/e-bomb/print.phtml
http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2001
We had a very similar situation here in the Colorado Springs, CO area a few years ago when a faulty FM broadcast tower started sending out signals on rogue frequencies.
Not only were keyless entry systems affected, but garage doors started opening at seemingly random intervals as well. It happened on the southwest side of the city, which as anyone familiar with the area knows, is smack-dab next to NORAD (as well as the main array of broadcast antennae that serve the city).
Needless to say, the conspiracy theorists had a field day with that one too.
bash: rtfm: command not found
The article said that the people up at Nellis were gearing up for a "Red Flag" operation next week. If memory serves, Red Flag is a mock warfare exercise, and i'm thinking they had an electronic warfare aircraft of one kind was on the way in, and flikked on the the switch marked "jam" instead of the button to turn on the surround sound in the cockpit :)
Learn about Photography Basics.
Oh no! A DDoE [Distributed Denial of Entry]!!! Arrrrrggghhhh!!!!
.
Haven't any of you watched Oceans Eleven? I think that the Bellagio better check their vault.
Location + date/time might I suspect be very enlightening.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Wireless telephones operate at a higher frequency, with more power. Remotes as a general rule operate via IR. Neither would be affected by a low-power scrambler.
Learn about Photography Basics.
It sounds like the Infinite Improbability Drive is malfunctioning again.
"Solar flares can produce and eject large numbers of charge particles, and usually the Earth's magnetic field deflects them before they enter the atmosphere,"
In other news, the Sun reached out and incinerated a home in Dayton, Ohio, late last week. The front yard was also slightly scorched, but neighbors reported absolutely no damage from the 50,000 Kelvin temperatures.
However, Tom Glavine, a next door neighbor did report breaking a sweat.
Can you spell EMP?
-rt
when I'm in the parking lot of a sizeable medical practise here which has a bunch of X-Ray machines and other diagnostic equipment.
Now one of the pages you linked to is "Temporarily Unavailable". Sounds like a cover-up to me. That proves that something must be going on.
Sigs are bad for your health.
The OEM remote control for my Chrysler Concord has FCCID GQ43VT9T. Which is registered to a company called TRW (TRW is also engraved into the back of the keyless entry remote).
According to the FCC, all remote controls with this FCC ID operate at 315.000mhz. My guess would be, most keyless entry systems built by this company operate at this frequency (ie, they don't all have separate FCC ID's, and separate frequencies).
It would only take me, an amateur radio operator, about an hour to come up with a way to block transmission on that frequency for, say, a 50 mile radius.
Go here to check your FCC ID.
It's surely caused by someone's huuuuge king-size electric shaver nearby.
The intro quotes this as happening in Seattle 3 years ago...can anyone provide evidence?
I think this is the event they were referring to.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
It is not a bad luck epicentre, but a good luck epicentre. If you build a casino on it, you will always end up winning.
Fight Spammers!
I know of a case where a bunch of people got locked out of their cars for some hours. It was in a parkinglot in front of a shopping center.
After an investigation it turned out that in one of the high apartment buildings next to the parkinglot, someone had a wireless set of headphones jamming the keyless car locks.
You stop there for lunch on your bike and will the alarm/immobliser disarm afterwards? Will it buggery. Apparently there's a US Airforce "listening station" nearby.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
to have strange EMP problems since there's a large (>= 10 kW) ELF installation owned by the DoD in that area, according to an acquaintance who was an EE tech there. Posting anon due the the nature of the topic mentioned.
There is a fairly large mountain, Mount Wilson, about 15 miles from the center of Los Angeles. It is a weird bit of topography to have such a high mountain right next to a city at sea level, and both the academic and telecommunications fields have taken advantage of it.
I went up there with my son to see the array of telescopes. They have some amazing, unique installlations, including a spectacular optical interferometer.
About a mile from the observatory there is the largest antenna farm you've ever seen. Antennas of every size, geometry, and description.
And -- the keyless entry on my Toyota Spyder didn't work. It was a little puzzling, I assumed that the remote's battery was dead -- but the little light worked just fine. If I put the remote right next to the car, it would work about one time out of 10. Very odd. I thought maybe it was the altitude...
Then when I tried it at the parking garage the next day, it worked perfectly, with its normal range and exuberance. I now believe that it was interference from the antenna farm that was causing it not to work at Mount Wilson.
I'm sure that there was some kind of similar interference in Vegas yesterday. I wonder if Aviation Week will write it up.
Thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
Since this appears to be production level tech I'd guess it's more likely that Nellis AFB has acquired something similar rather than some Skunk project at Area 51 being to blame. Of course the tinfoil hat brigade can (and no doubt will) continue to blame it all on the aliens at Dreamland.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
My keyless entry transmitters range was horrible (as in much more horrible than usual) yesterday, but it worked if you got close enough.
I was wondering my both transmitters seemed to get weak at the same time.
I haven't tried it today.
My computer stayed up throughout, no DSL problems, no cable problems, no power problems either, cell phone seemed ok except one call I made the signal quality was poor even though I was not too far from the tower.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I would have thought that everyone would have figured this one out. I saw it on a movie called "The Core." Basically, the center of the earth has stopped moving. Our only hope is to send down some kind of manned underground machine and detonate nuclear weapons.
- EMP device (or similar radiofrequency weapon)
- Government tests of evil mass-population-control backdoors built into car lock software (you can't stop it with tinfoil, if it needs radio to work! Bwahahahah!)
- Some silly bugger intentionally flooding the car-lock frequencies with pseudo codes, perhaps as a form of "dictionary password attack" to steal cars, perhaps as just a prank.
Back when the FCC had District Engineers, instead of "Regional Directors" who are usually lawyers, you could probably get somebody on the phone who'd crank up a receiver and tune around until they found the source of the problem. Today, the FCC doesn't even have an office in Las Vegas. The nearest field office is in LA.
Uhm, FYI - Bremerton, WA != Seattle
Map
Bremerton is home to the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard which often has several large ships at port for a few years for repairs and outfittings. Which is where they think the 'disturbance' might have come from.
And let me guess, your car was immune because it's crafted from an indestructable material called Unobtainium... ?
Many tower sites have 460Mhz high power paging transmitters co-located there along with 150Mhz transmitters. Often times these transmitters are not "UP" at the saame time. Paging transmitters are up most of the time during the day. When you have two stations that are close to each other and you don't have a device called a "circulator" on the output of the RF Power Amp (PA), you get a mix of the two signals. 460-150 puts out a mix at about 310Mhz. Right in the band that many of the wireless key entry systems use. If the mix is only a few watts, comming from a high gain paging transmitter's antenna, yep, it would stomp all over the keyless remote.
No need for panic, I am sure it was someone replacing a bad circulator on a paging transmitter.
--fatboy
Another similar situation in Montreal when a brand new public transport train locomotive was put into service: its route took it through a residential neighborhood lined w/ houses equipped w/ 1-2 door garages. Imagine the owners' surprise when, as the train passed by for the first time, nearly all the garage doors equipped w/ electrical openers opened on their own! I can't remember exactly what caused it, but it was related either to the new locomotive's communication system or the part-electric propulsion system.
Physical key entry can fail also when some bastard kid pours Superglue into the keyhole. Or even a broken toothpick can F it up.
Table-ized A.I.
Either that, or it is terrorism.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
While whatever causing the disturbance can cause your remote to stop operating, there is no way that random RF interference can cause your car and garage doors to start opening. All these systems use a set "code" of pulses - so it takes a lot more than just broadcasting on the right freqency to make something happen.
Actually, no. Most car doors have a more generic lock than the ignition. Once I went to drive my mom's car, sat inside, only to find the key didn't work in the ignition. That's when I realized I had never gotten my mom's car key, and had unlocked the door with MY car's key. I double checked to be sure, and my key always unlocked her car door with ease.
One of my automobiles is a black Chevy Camaro. One night a few years ago, when I was leaving a local bowling alley I went out and tried my key in the door. It wouldn't open. I couldn't figure it out, I took my key out of the door lock and looked to make sure I was using the right key. I was. Then I took a step back to think and I noticed that there were two identical black Camaros parked side by side. I casually walked over to the *other* one, opened the door and drove home.
These are cars that were built 18 years ago. Same make, model and year but the door lock cylinders are different. Either you and your mother have cheap cars or you perhaps you should try playing powerball, because the astronimical odds of you two getting automobiles with the same lock cylinders on the doors have come to pass.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Being an amateur radio operator and at one time a repeater owner I know that all kinds of radio frequency problems can happen. My repeater only transmitted one someone was using it but when a small little transistor started to self oscillate it transmitted by itself. Since it bypassed the control there was not auto shut off. Worse yet my normal narrow 7Khz signal was now running 100mhz in each direction! Since my transmitter was in the 146Mhz range it was now blotting out other transmitters and devices from 46Mhz to 246Mhz.
It blotted out Fire, police, business, TV and worse yet, military frequencies! A friend who works at mountain top sites for Motorola found the problem from a nearby mountain via a 50 thousand dollar service monitor and noticed that it was centered on my frequency! I found him on my doorstep when I arrived home. It was powered down and a resister network on the transistors stopped it from ever happening again.
The point is I could have been fined BIG dollars for this little problem and would have if I reported it. Cities are dense with radio signals from all kinds of sources and any one of those can malfunction. If no one can traces this down I doubt the offending person or equipment will come forward. Unless this was a test of a military EMP bomb in the desert test range I doubt it was the military since it only effect a narrow range of devices. The narrow range of problems almost eliminates the EMP bomb as well.
Here (don't let the rather garish site design put you off) is a site on banning car alarms in NYC. They have some information (sadly the complete report is only available in PDF - "Bad Web Designer!") that fairly convincingly (to me anyway) makes the point that car alarms are pretty close to useless and cause other problems as well. Of course, it also turns out that the car alarm manufacturers are lobbying hard against any such move.
This morning 21 Feb 04, I went to the bank and parked where I could see my car, making it uncecessary to lock it.
As I finished my banking transaction, a bunch (greater than 4 or more) of car alarms went off in the bank parking lot and in the parking lot across the street.
One of the alarms was mine and as I walked to my car I saw a number of people 'scratching their heads', looking at their cars.
Damn Pesky Terrorists!
Holy crap, it happened to me! I am in Vegas for work this month. Anyway yesterday my car wouldn't open when I tried to push the button. It thought the battery in my key chain fob thingy was dead, but when I got to work (which is somewhat away from Vegas) it worked fine.
Then I thought maybe my cell phone was interfering with my keyless thing (I was talking on my cell phone yesterday as I got in the car). This morning I went out and the thing worked fine, but when I came back to the hotel the keyless wouldn't lock the door. I had to manually lock it. Then I came inside and saw this article. Wierd!
I live in Nevada, and have done a lot of work with 802.11 in various locations around the state. The most interesting project I ever worked on was in Pahrump. We discovered that we could not create any working connections with a directional antenna pointed toward Area 51. I don't know if they use conventional jamming equipment, experimental wireless equipment or weapons, or who knows what. All I know is that it was a real pain in the butt, and required moving equipment around to avoid pointing anything that direction.
I don't know what caused the Vegas outage, but the Bremerton one is being blamed on a visiting Navy ship. Some have argued against that theory, but it actually rings a loud bell with me. I remember being in the Navy in San Diego two years ago and my remote keyless entry wouldn't work in the vicinity of the ships. When I was off base and away from the piers it started working again. The only thing that is kind of strange is that the interference was only on the base; it shouldn't affect things across an entire town or city.
"a lot of static electricity in the air could be messing up the radio waves" I didn't think static electricity could exist in the air. After all, that's why we can see a spark jump, the air conducts electicity.
anywhere about 20-25 degrees declination from the empire State Building. One of my favorite bars there (gingerman, is anyone is familiar) jokes that it is a 'keys required zone for safety'...
...the keyless entry transmitter to my Ford Explorer transmits at 314.925 MHz.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
An engineer at Volkwagen thought that if someone tries to steal a new super-deluxe Toureg sport utility, the theft deterrent system ought to make it damn hard. So, if the car's alarm is not turned off using the key fob, the would-be intruder (even if he uses the key to manually unlock the driver's door) will run into several obstacles.
He'll find that the car won't start. And he'll then find he can't remove the key from the ignition (it locks it in place), and can't take the car out of Park.
Unfortunately, if the battery dies (for no apparent reason), the alarm cannot be turned off. So the owner will face the same set of obstacles.
He will use the key to manually open the door. He will insert the key and try to start the engine. He will fail, and try to remove the key, which will not come out. He will call VW roadside assistance, who will call AAA. The tow truck driver will arrive and won't be able to jump start the car, because the battery is in the rear cargo compartment, and the door locks are either dead or disabled by the alarm system. He will shrug and leave. Another tow truck driver will arrive, shrug, and leave. A third tow truck driver will arrive and decide to tow the car. He will discover that the transmission is locked in Park, so he can't tow it. He will shrug and leave. After another call to VW roadside assistance, a local dealer will get involved, sending a tow truck with a dolly, so the car can be rolled onto a flat bed truck and taken to the dealer.
The owner will be really happy he just spent $40,000 on a high-end German sport utility vehicle.
Forget the terrorist theories, someone please tell the whales to answer!
-- Soruk
Anyone ever see maximum overdrive? I rest my case.
Thats strange because the other day i was driving my car (which has power-only stearing and brakes) when all of a sudden the power went out, i couldnt stear or break or even change down a gear (fully electronic gear selection) so i tried to bail but i couldnt even open the door - you guessed it electronic locks. Well it wouldnt have mattered if the power was on anyway because the locks automatically stop you opening the door while the car is moving. And anyway i couldnt see the approaching train track because the electronically tinted windows are designed to go black when the power is off (so you cant look inside the car). So the car rolled to a stop and i heard the horn that could only mean one thing...
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I have been telling you how Broadband over Power Line was going to interfere with everything. Now it's happening. This is just the beginning.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
I sell @ a chevy dealer, and this is how GM domesic brands work. All cars come with simple alarms. They go off any time a door is opened by somting other than its primary "key". In cars with keyless entry the key is the "key". if you were to reach through the window and unlock the door the alarm would go off... The car canot be started while the alarm is going off it cuts off the starter... so if a theif broke in and hot wired it it would not start. to turn off the alarm you use your key to start it... it sends a code to the cpu and the cpu engages the starter :-) On cars with keyless it is the same exept the keyless fob is the primary key, the car senses that the the car was locked with keyless then you use a key. it remembers that you used keyless and things that the key is a intrusion. Some GM cars do have a chip... althogh the chip is nothing more than a resister. @ the factory the car learns how many Ohms of resistance. if keys are lost there is a way to repograme the car to the key. if the car is started with out the reister it will run but the fuel pump shuts off after the accelarotr is touched(so they work with carstarters)... btw i know i cant spell :-P
http://www.DaveNet.biz/
The best alarms don't make a sound. They give the thief a minute or so to drive off and then cut off the fuel. The idea being that they will be in traffic by then where they are much too high profile to attempt to bypass the alarm.
9 94697
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99
Linux at home
Clearly, this was a beta test of a new, long distance, selectively sized and targeted (Las Vegas metro this time around) EMP weapon.
Ooops! Now that I revealed this info, I expect a knock at my door any moment.
This aircraft appears to have the ability needed to do this based on this info found on this website: Rivet-Joint
About 10 yrs ago during a thunder storm, my garage door kept opening and closing on its own. The incredible thing is that it was right in synch with the lightening strikes. It never occurred again after that storm though... very weird.
He must not be an American.
I drive a '97 Ford and my factory keyless entry often failed unless I stood right next to the car antenna. These things operate at 295MHz and seem to be extremely susceptible to interference. I modified my spare keyfob and replaced the "operating" LED with an IR emitter, and added an IR receiver inside the car. This pretty much always works, and since it's just using the same code over IR it didn't require any reprogramming of the keyless entry system. It has another advantage in that it's a narrow beam transmission, not like the omnidirectional RF broadcast, which anyone with a portable scanner can record and duplicate.
And as some others pointed out - opening the door manually will trigger the alarm. The factory alarm is wired into the keyless entry system, it will only disarm if it receives an Unlock code. The alarm has sensors on all the doors to detect if they are open or closed, it doesn't have sensors to detect that you used a key to unlock the door.
-- *My* journal is more interesting than *yours*...