Microsoft's Paul Allen Funds ET Search

Obviously... by SwansonMarpalum · 2004-03-21 04:14 · Score: 4, Funny

Microsoft is looking to hire!

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"Give away the stone, let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and faded anchor." - Maynard James Keenan

Re:Obviously... by rlp · 2004-03-21 04:19 · Score: 4, Funny

That does it! This is taking outsourcing way too far!

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[Insert pithy quote here]
Re:Obviously... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 04:20 · Score: 1, Funny

Yet another American corporation looking to outsource. How can American workers compete with Andromeda's low wages and lack of environmental standards.
Re:Obviously... by useosx · 2004-03-21 04:38 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, actually, this is just simply a triumph of capitalism.

I mean if our businesspersons need some reason to want to make 10 kagillion dollars a week. If it's the search for some sort of adolescent fantasy in space or simply just stamping their face on the moon then so be it.
Re:Obviously... by An+Onerous+Coward · 2004-03-21 05:58 · Score: 4, Funny

Seriously, it would probably work the other way, as the aliens moved their high-polluting, unskilled manufacturing processes here to Earth. They'd buy our labor for a few hundred thousand a year (pennies on the dollar when compared to the cost of labor back on Xaphodbrox). We'd all be rushing out to buy Xaphian language tapes, learning to chat about their politics and sports (an odd cross between polo and mud wrestling), staffing their call centers and reading scripts we only barely understood, and buying up their nifty technology while local industries perished.

Meanwhile, back on the Motherworld, the people would be consoling themselves, saying that humans were great for cheap labor, but thank god they aren't capable of real creativity. Then a hundred years down the road, we'd lob a bunch of nukes at their planet, each lovingly engraved with, "Is THIS creative enough for ya?"

T'will be interesting times, indeed.

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You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Re:Obviously... by Tablizer · 2004-03-21 06:21 · Score: 1

That does it! This is taking outsourcing way too far!

You think Indians are cheap, Xorkians are happy to be paid in human sewage.

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:Obviously... by Saeger · 2004-03-21 08:40 · Score: 1

Seriously, if the ETs haven't already eliminated the need for work with automation (robotics + nanotech + AI), then the retards deserve to be nuked. :)
And if it happens that they DO have an economy of abundance, but are being assholes by enforcing artificial scarcity because of their old evolutionary psychology, then they need to be nuked ten times over.
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Power to the Peaceful
Re:Obviously... by Marvelicious · 2004-03-21 09:43 · Score: 2, Informative

Looking for radio signals IS NOT the way to search for intelligent life, as "intelligent life" would not use such slow propagating waves for interestellar communication.
This is a little smarter than just a big antenna. It collects info by recieving all sorts of waves and analyzing them to get actual images of the area (plus a lot of other info I imagine). Think radar on nitro. By the way, but did anyone mention yet that this kind of seems like a Beowulf cluster of antenae? Sorry - couldn't help myself!

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Send whiskey and fresh horses!
Re:Obviously... by TekPolitik · 2004-03-21 13:29 · Score: 1

Microsoft is looking to hire!
Nah - he just had a DNA test and now wants to find his real father.
Re:Obviously... by antic · 2004-03-21 17:47 · Score: 1

Hey, he could save some money and just look in the mirror. Ladies and gentlement, here's your alien:

Paul Alien!

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'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'

Where is article writed located? by Xshare · 2004-03-21 04:14 · Score: 2, Funny

He mentions $US and $? What is the anonymous $ value?

Re:Where is article writed located? by ruudn · 2004-03-21 04:17 · Score: 1

That would be Australia, I guess.....
Re:Where is article writed located? by frazzydee · 2004-03-21 04:17 · Score: 1

looks to me like it could be Canadian dollars- but according to the conversion rates I have, 13.5 million should be 17.94 . . .
Re:Where is article writed located? by kaamos · 2004-03-21 04:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

The article is taken from an australian site, the adress could have lead you to an easy answer (http://www.smh.com.au)

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In Canada, we don't fancy things like socks
Re:Where is article writed located? by corbettw · 2004-03-21 04:28 · Score: 1, Troll

Yeah, but the blurb is on an American site, you'd think the editors would convert the amounts into US dollars and leave it at that.

Nevermind that other countries shouldn't be using "$" for their currency to start with (the origin of that symbol was writing a "U" over an "S", doesn't really make sense for other countries to us it, huh?)

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God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Re:Where is article writed located? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 04:41 · Score: 2, Informative

That's only one of a competing set of theories regarding the origin and function of the dollar sign. The etymology itself is pretty easy, but the sign has a number of possible explanations. (Scroll to the bottom.)

For instance, the theory you advanced was popularized by Ayn Rand.
Re:Where is article writed located? by davandhol · 2004-03-21 04:55 · Score: 1

Not true. The $ (sometimes seen with two |'s) actually represents the Pillars of Hercules (the entrance to the Mediterranean sea). The word dollar has been around for quite a few centuries, too, from a German word for a Czech town where dollar coins were first made.
Re:Where is article writed located? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 05:02 · Score: 1, Insightful

Yes, I totally agree that other countries shouldn't be using "$" for their currency, since it clearly is an american invention.

And americans and other western countries shouldn't use their number system since it is arabic in origin (or rather from countries an cultures conquered by the arabic long long ago). Oh, and the latin alphabet. And only native british people should be allowed to speak english, and ....

Oh wait, I really DON'T agree that other countries shouldn't be using "$" as their sign for currency since my keyboard would be all cluttered with currencysigns if about 200 countries had it's own.

(btw, "$1k USD" is a very good notation in this case)
Re:Where is article writed located? by whorfin · 2004-03-21 05:11 · Score: 3, Informative

$ means "dollars"

In Mexico, $ means Pesos...

In fact, it means Pesos pretty much everywhere, as well as Reals (Brazil)

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Laugh while you can, monkey-boy!
Re:Where is article writed located? by Jonathan · 2004-03-21 06:21 · Score: 1

Well, it's not quite so cryptic -- the article you cite lists the "pillar peso" as just one theory, as if it was no more supported than crackpot theories by the likes of Rand-- but take a look at the peso itself -- it is difficult for anyone who has seen it to doubt that that was the origin of the dollar symbol
Re:Where is article writed located? by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 06:45 · Score: 1

The historical meaning of $ is a U superimposed on an S.

In Mexico and many other places, the $ symbol essentially can be translated 'We're using this symbol, but really the US came up with the idea first. We're kinda 0wned in that regard.'

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Re:Where is article writed located? by Alomex · 2004-03-21 07:05 · Score: 2, Informative

The historical meaning of $ is a U superimposed on an S.

You need to review your history, back to the day when the Mexican silver peso was the main mode of currency in the US (silver dollars, while struck not long after independence were not in widespread circulation until the mid XIX century).

The dollar symbol comes from the columns of Hercules in the Spanish crown crest. Crest that naturally was struck in the back of Mexican silver pesos during the XVI, XVII and XVIII centuries (you do know Mexico was once part of Spain, don't you?).
Re:Where is article writed located? by no+longer+myself · 2004-03-21 07:10 · Score: 1

The historical meaning of $ is a U superimposed on an S.
I've heard that story since the 2nd grade, and I've seen a lot of historical artifacts since then, but I've never actually seen a U superimposed on an S. I'm not saying it's not true, I've just never seen any old documents with a U on an S to symbolically denote currency. I've seen two II's on an S, and a single I on an S, but no U. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't one of those items we might find on "snopes" one day.
Re:Where is article writed located? by smallfeet · 2004-03-21 08:54 · Score: 1

I am sorry, after seeing the peso pictured I would have to say it has nothing to do with the $ symbol.
Re:Where is article writed located? by Jonathan · 2004-03-21 10:51 · Score: 1

I am sorry, after seeing the peso pictured I would have to say it has nothing to do with the $ symbol.

Despite having both a forwards and reverse $ symbol on it?
Re:Where is article writed located? by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 16:25 · Score: 1

You mean the Spanish 8 Real coin, don't you? Where did this Mexico bit come in? The phrase 'two bits' refers to the fact that people made 'change' by slicing Spanish 8 Real coins up into quarters, to make a Quarter Dollar, and the American Silver dollar was based on the Spanish 8 Reals coin or the 'Piece of 8.'

I have some Spanish 8 Real coins. They're also referred to as 'Spanish Milled Dollars' and yes, they were the main currency in the US for a time. Dunno why anybody would imagine that colonial Spanish coins that happened to be minted in Mexico would be 'Mexican.' And nobody at all referred to it as a Peso. It was 'Spanish Milled dollar.'

There is significant artwork extant showing that the U imposed on an S is the basis of the 'dollar sign.' Mexican nationalism and pride all aside.

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Re:Where is article writed located? by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 16:30 · Score: 1

Here is a Spanish Milled Dollar reference. And here's the official info about it from the US Mint.

'Mexican Peso' indeed. Harumph.

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Re:Where is article writed located? by corbettw · 2004-03-21 18:14 · Score: 1

I did some checking around, and it turns out we're both wrong. While there is some dispute, the most likely origin of '$' is from a shorthand way of writing 'pesos', 'ps' (the 's' should be superscript). As time went on, it evolved into '$'.

See http://www.pballew.net/dollar.html and http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutsy mbols/dollarsign.

So, I retract my previous statement. And since '$' isn't derived from 'US', there's nothing wrong with other countries using that symbol for their currency, or with denoting the country of origin. I apologize for my wrong statements. I still think the editors should've switched which currency was being referrenced in the blurb, since this is a mainly US site, and it's to be expected that all currencies, unless stated, are in US dollars.

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God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Re:Where is article writed located? by mikiN · 2004-03-21 19:51 · Score: 1

... since this is a mainly US site, ...

Excuse me, but what exactly makes you believe this?
The mere fact that most people here (try to) write in English doesn't imply that they all live in the USA.
The slogan is 'News for nerds ...', not just American nerds.

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The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
Re:Where is article writed located? by identity0 · 2004-03-21 21:10 · Score: 1

Not according to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing... Origins of the $ sign

Of course, they only report the most popular theory, and do not claim it is proven to be true...
Re:Where is article writed located? by corbettw · 2004-03-22 01:58 · Score: 1

From the Slashdot FAQ:

Slashdot seems to be very U.S.-centric. Do you have any plans to be more international in your scope?

Slashdot is U.S.-centric. We readily admit this, and really don't see it as a problem. Slashdot is run by Americans, after all, and the vast majority of our readership is in the U.S. We're certainly not opposed to doing more international stories, but we don't have any formal plans for making that happen. All we can really tell you is that if you're outside the U.S. and you have news, submit it, and if it looks interesting, we'll post it.

Answered by: CmdrTaco
Last Modified: 10/28/00

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God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Re:Where is article writed located? by Alomex · 2004-03-22 04:21 · Score: 1

As I said you need to check your history:

In the early date, the coinage of New Spain and Mexico runs into billions, and their Pieces of Eight (Silver Reales) and pesos served as the standard medium of exchange in the United States, the Philippines, China, and many European markets. The first, or Continental currency of the United States of America, was made payable in Spanish milled dollars. The Mexican Silver Peso and its subdivisions were legal tender in this country until February 21, 1857, when by Act of Congress, all laws authorizing its circulation and acceptance were repealed. Up to June 30, 1862, the sum of $2,103,275.74 in Mexican coins had been accepted by the United States Federal offices.

http://www.wscoin.com/Info/Oct1003.htm
Re:Where is article writed located? by Alomex · 2004-03-22 04:28 · Score: 1

There is significant artwork extant showing that the U imposed on an S is the basis of the 'dollar sign.' Mexican nationalism and pride all aside.

All this proves is that the US was making variations on a theme that was already well established. To wit:

One of the most popular theories is that the dollar sign is derived from the initials of the United States. If you superimpose a capital "U" on a capital "S" then drop the lower part of the "U", what you end up with is a version of the dollar symbol with two strokes. This theory was endorsed by the American libertarian philosopher and staunch defender of capitalism, Ayn Rand, in her novel Atlas Shrugged. Chapter 10 is entitled the Sign of the Dollar. Rand claimed the dollar sign was the symbol not only of the currency, but also the nation, a free economy, and a free mind.

The Peso Abbreviation and Piece of Eight Theories

However, a more widely accepted theory nowadays is that the sign owes its origins to the Spanish peso.

One version of this theory is that the standard abbreviation of "peso" was simply "P", but the plural form was a large "P" with a small "s" above it and to its right. This was simplified by retaining only the upward stroke of the "P" and superimposing the "S" upon it. Hence the symbol of the dollar.

See:

Dreyfuss, Henry Symbol source book : an authoritative guide to international graphic symbols. New York : McGraw-Hill, 1972.

If the peso abbreviation theory is the correct one why is the US dollar sign sometimes written with two vertical strokes? A possible explanation is that the best known Spanish Peso coin had two pillars engraved on the reverse side to symbolise the "Pillars of Hercules" at Gibraltar and the words "Plus Ultra" indicating that beyond the Pillars of Hercules there were other lands. That coin was called the Pillar Dollar in the British colonies in North America and the two pillars may have become the two strokes in the Dollar sign.

For brief information on the "Pillar Dollar" see:

Nussbaum, Arthur A history of the dollar. New York : Columbia U.P., 1957.

http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/dollar.html
Re:Where is article writed located? by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-22 19:33 · Score: 1

From the US Mint website. About as official as it can get:

Thomas Jefferson recommended on September 2, 1776, to the Continental Congress, that the United States adopt the silver "Spanish Milled Dollar" called "Pillar Pieces of Eight", as our monetary unit of value, since daily trade was transacted in that coin.

I didn't see 'Mexico' in there anywhere.

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the rest of this huge article: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 04:16 · Score: 4, Informative

The radio telescopes will measure the density of the early universe, the formation of stars and magnetic fields.

They will also be capable of searching for "possible signals from technologically advanced civilisations elsewhere in the galaxy," according to a SETI statement.

The announcement of Allen's donation coincided with the completion of the project's research and development phases, which Allen funded with an $US11.5 million ($15.33 million) donation.

The $US13.5 million donation will pay for the first two phases of construction of the ATA, according to the statement.

One network of 32 telescopes will be available for research by the end of 2004 and the entire network of 350 telescopes will be completed "late in the decade," it said.

SETI and the Radio Astronomy Laboratory of the University of California at Berkley teamed up for the ATA project.

"I am very excited to be supporting one of the world's most visionary efforts to seek basic answers to some of the fundamental question about our universe and what other civilisations may exist elsewhere," Allen said in a ceremony in Mountain View, California, where SETI is based.

I think I'm still asleep... by WeblionX · 2004-03-21 04:17 · Score: 1

Anyone else read "Allen" as "Alien" at first pass?

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(\(\ (=_=) Bani! (")")

They should explore by capn_buzzcut · 2004-03-21 04:17 · Score: 4, Funny

Darl McBride's cranium first. Lots of space there.

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"And now, Frank N. Furter, your time has come. Say 'goodbye' to all of this, and 'hello'... to oblivion!"

Re:They should explore by Shinglor · 2004-03-21 04:20 · Score: 4, Funny

Well that's great except they're searching for intelligent life.
Re:They should explore by carambola5 · 2004-03-21 04:33 · Score: 1

Fat chance of finding any intelligence there, much less of the extraterrestrial type.

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IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
Re:They should explore by tealover · 2004-03-21 04:34 · Score: 1

Speaking of the search for intelligent life, does anyone remember when intelligent discussion used to occur here on Slashdot?'

I wonder if Allen can throw some money to finding intelligent discussion in a web forum, since it seems to have been reduced to people rushing to throw out what they perceive to be funny quips, or a rush to acquire moderation points.

Slashdot, you used to be great. What happened?

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-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Re:They should explore by Aardpig · 2004-03-21 05:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

Slashdot, you used to be great. What happened?

All of the liberal arts majors who became certified <insert buzz word here> engineers during the Dot-Com boom, are now unemployed. They spend their days posting to Slashdot; and since they really don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to science or technology, the sophistication of posts now parallels that of fart jokes.

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Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Re:They should explore by wideBlueSkies · 2004-03-21 05:44 · Score: 1

Intellegent or not, the inside of that head is certainly alien.

wbs.

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Huh?
Re:They should explore by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 06:13 · Score: 1

It's amusing what an Emmanuel Goldstein this McBride fellow has become to some of you.

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Re:They should explore by woodhouse · 2004-03-21 06:32 · Score: 1

Actually, that probably wouldn't be very successful because Darl McBride's cranium is limited by the size of his skull cavity, which is approximately only 8 inches across. If there were any aliens there, they'd have to be very small. Also, using a network of radio telescopes to search it would probably be overkill. No, I think they're onto a better idea by searching outer space, which is very big indeed and therefore far more likely to contain aliens.
Re:They should explore by spruce · 2004-03-22 03:39 · Score: 1

Go to your preferences and slap a -6 modifier on Funny comments, so we won't have to listen to your bitching about the way it used to be.

Some of us like to laugh.

Ah but the real question is ... by Average_Joe_Sixpack · 2004-03-21 04:17 · Score: 3, Funny

What software will be used to interpret any readings gathered by these telescopes? I mean using a trojan infected XP box could lead to an intergalactic incident if these telescopes wind up port flooding the aliens' array.

Re:Ah but the real question is ... by Mr.+Bad+Example · 2004-03-21 05:07 · Score: 1

I mean using a trojan infected XP box could lead to an intergalactic incident if these telescopes wind up port flooding the aliens' array.

I can see it now...we receive a long, elaborate Contact-style message only to find out that what was sent to us across the lightyears is "H4H4 PWN3D N00B WTF".

Very Sneaky by SeaDour · 2004-03-21 04:17 · Score: 5, Funny

This is obviously part of a grand scheme to transmit free copies of Microsoft Office to nearby star systems.

Re:Very Sneaky by IO+ERROR · 2004-03-21 05:46 · Score: 1

No, it's more like Paul Allen is trying to help Bill Gates phone home.

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How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
Re:Very Sneaky by caquillo · 2004-03-21 13:44 · Score: 1

Free?! I'd be more inclined to think they're looking for new markets to sell too.

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Nothing Dead Here.

how to react?? by cjthompson · 2004-03-21 04:18 · Score: 1, Offtopic

he's from Microsoft, that's bad. but it's aliens and stuff and that's good. what am I to think /.ers?

ah... by Raagshinnah · 2004-03-21 04:18 · Score: 5, Funny

ah so that's why all those UFOs have been crashing

thank you, i'll be here all night

Australian... by bidule · 2004-03-21 04:18 · Score: 1

dollars, I guess?

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ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)

But when ET phones home by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 04:19 · Score: 3, Funny

will he get the blue busy signal of death?

See, it's not life they are looking for by way2trivial · 2004-03-21 04:19 · Score: 1

it's INTELLIGENT life..

this is why it will fail....

if you want to fund life search, you have to GO THERE, or do things like look for chloryphll (sp?) in planetary atmopsheres

they are LISTENING, when they should plan on LOOKING

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every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random

Re:See, it's not life they are looking for by another_henry · 2004-03-21 04:28 · Score: 1

I wonder, given a finite amount of money/resources, whether it is better to spend millions or billions on searching for ET intelligence or to spend it on research and development of our own space technologies. I suppose that sort of question can't be answered without knowing the odds of finding something, and you don't know that until you do!

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"Studies have shown that people who eat peanuts live longer than those who do not eat."
Re:See, it's not life they are looking for by Have+Blue · 2004-03-21 04:39 · Score: 1

We're listening for anything likely to be a radio communication, like the radio signals we've been sending out into the galaxy for the past hundred years. Sure, we'll only discover any life forms that happen to have invented wireless communications, but you have to be pretty intelligent to do that anyway.

(Also, there is no way to measure characteristics of planets outside our own system with present technology. We can only detect them at all by observing their indirect effects on the measurable characteristics of the stars they orbit.)
Re:See, it's not life they are looking for by s20451 · 2004-03-21 04:41 · Score: 4, Interesting

if you want to fund life search, you have to GO THERE

I was reading a NASA report on the prospects for interstellar travel. Basically, you would have to create a self-contained biosphere that would function for hundreds or even thousands of years; construct an enclosure that would last that long under erosion from particles with relative velocities that are a significant fraction of the speed of light; find a power source that would last that long and provide propulsion to accellerate such an enormous vehicle to a significant fraction of light speed; find a way to accurately navigate interstellar space, when our knowledge of stellar positions is imperfect; and find volunteers who would not only have no chance of returning to Earth, but who would have children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren who would never live anywhere except the spacecraft, in total dedication to the mission. Even assuming the technical hurdles could be overcome (which the report said are beyond existing or forseeable technology), the report noted that this last point would require extreme devotion that challenges the most stringent religions on Earth.

To solve the human factor, I think it's inevitable that interstellar astronauts will have to be genetically altered humans, possibly with qualities such as extremely long lifespan, low food requirements, devoted obedience, and hibernation.

Sending a probe to another star system is probably also beyond existing technology, but would probably be possible within the next century or so. The device would have to weigh at most a few pounds (by comparison, the Cassini probe weighs about a ton), again withstand interstellar pounding, and yet have enough energy to communicate its findings back to Earth (not at all trivial -- remember the inverse square law; with existing technology, Voyager's data rates at Pluto's distance are a few hundred bits per second).

So until about the year 2100, listening is about all we got.

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Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Re:See, it's not life they are looking for by badzilla · 2004-03-21 11:36 · Score: 1

That self-contained biosphere, functioning for a long journey duration and where people would have their great-grandchildren in space - I thought we were already on it?

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"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
Re:See, it's not life they are looking for by s20451 · 2004-03-21 14:18 · Score: 1

Too bad it's not going anywhere interesting.

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Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.

nmap by MDaniszewski · 2004-03-21 04:20 · Score: 1

I heard that the telescope will be packaged with a special version of nmap, which can port scan IPv8 (clearly a technological advancement not known to earth).

Re:nmap by InfiniteWisdom · 2004-03-21 05:43 · Score: 1

Ports are part of the TCP and UDP headres. Nothing to do with IP.

Dollar Correction Here by syntap · 2004-03-21 04:20 · Score: 1

Should say "With the contribution, Allen will have given $25 million ($33.32 million CAN)"

Re:Dollar Correction Here by syntap · 2004-03-21 05:40 · Score: 1

Original post didn't have the link to the article, so the dollar amount is close enough.

Just... by Bishop,+Martin · 2004-03-21 04:21 · Score: 5, Informative

A little interesting... What does SETI.org run?

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Setec Astronomy

Re:Just... by dan+dan+the+dna+man · 2004-03-21 04:46 · Score: 1

OpenSSL/0.9.6d?

Shouldn't they update?

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I don't read your sig, why do you read mine?
Re:Just... by .@. · 2004-03-21 05:58 · Score: 1

They have. Netcraft isn't instantaneous, and this has only been known for a few days.

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.@.

The sheer lack of terrestrial variety.. by amigoro · 2004-03-21 04:22 · Score: 1

has obviously led him to make this move.

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Nothing to see here

Re:and meanwhile.... by DF5JT · 2004-03-21 04:24 · Score: 2, Funny

" ...many schools are still overcrowded, don't have money to make crucial repairs, and our jobs are still being outsourced leaving many people struggling. But darn it, let's find those aliens!" ...and spend the rest of the money for the war against terror.

ATA? by reedk · 2004-03-21 04:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Seems like a lot of an ATA array. I can get 'em off newegg for $100!

Shrinking market by krray · 2004-03-21 04:26 · Score: 5, Funny

Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, one of the richest men on Earth, today pledged to donate $US13.5 million ($17.99 million) for research into extra-terrestrial life.

Of course -- Microsoft _needs_ to find new customers. We both know that...

In spite of... by robslimo · 2004-03-21 04:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

The negative thoughts that many /.ers have for Microsoft in general and their top men in specific, Both Gates and Allen have long been active philanthropists. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation benefits "global health and learning" (directed by Bill Gates' father).

As mentioned in the story, Paul Allen has been a SETI supportor and funded the ATA.

I like to think that if I commanded that sort of wealth I would be as generous (as long as I'm dreaming, I'd be *more* generous).

Re:In spite of... by jsebrech · 2004-03-21 05:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

Just because he gives a lot to charity he's a good guy? I don't think so.

First of all, what is the percentage of what he gives to charity compared to his income, and how does that in turn compare to the nationwide average? If he doesn't give more proportionally than the average, I don't think he should get credit for it at all. Generosity lies in giving more than your share.

Secondly, microsoft has monopoly pricing on windows and office. Every dollar that is above the pricing level there would be in a free market, is a dollar taken out of the economy. Microsoft hoards the majority of it, and pays Bill Gates a large segment, which he hoards in turn. Money has to move, everyone knows that. If bill gates didn't have that money to give to charity, it would be invested in the economy, and would produce greater gains than giving a percentage of it to charity will ever do.

Ofcourse, when you compare Bill Gates to the Walton family, he comes out like a saint. He hasn't destroyed entire towns to acquire his wealth, and he doesn't hoard it as badly. But that doesn't mean he should be commended for the life he has lead. All he gets from me is respect.
Re:In spite of... by awfar · 2004-03-21 05:15 · Score: 1

There are many reasons for philanthropy than just a big heart, though I agree, they have often been maligned, as successful people often are.
Re:In spite of... by eille-la · 2004-03-21 05:15 · Score: 1

how can he (gates) help the poors of our world to get some education while not encouraging the open source movement? If you want the people on earth being well educated and more intelligent, then you normally also want to use the open source philosophy as the way to make the world better.
Re:In spite of... by Felinoid · 2004-03-21 05:17 · Score: 1

Before the Gates Foundation was set up I remember hearing quite often how "If Bill Gateses money (blah blah blah)" and speculation about how Mr Gates could put an end to world hunger with his pocket change.

Politics: While Mr Gates was busy dealing with anti-turst this and monopoly that he no doupt was being harrassed by nonproffits looking for money.

We all know Mr Gates could have pulled out chump change tossed it at them and said "I did my part" but I think he desided to NOT go that way.
It's not that the man isn't byond buying goodwill quite the reverse he'll do it in a heartbeat BUT he has to actually do something.
The vast majority (maybe all) of those people knocking on Mr Gates door aren't actually doing anything for the poor. They are collecting money and collecting paychecks. They don't product results.

Those non-proffits wanted to convence Mr Gates to give them his money but instead they convenced Mr Gates to help people himself.

And then pump the public for goodwill points.
But to give him credit he isn't just throwing money he's making a sereous effort to get results.

--
I don't actually exist.
Re:In spite of... by A+Bugg · 2004-03-21 05:47 · Score: 2, Informative

Last time i heard bill and his wife had given away over 40 billion dollars, now thats second hand but even it even half right i would say he is giving more than his fair share.
Re:In spite of... by deathazre · 2004-03-21 05:53 · Score: 1

Yes, and Paul Allen also owns the largest private yacht in the world, at 400-some feet (can't remember the exact figure). About the same size as some of the cruise ships I saw down in Ft. Lauderdale last week. Just like all MS products, it is expensive, slow, and bloated.

--
Karma: Negative (Mostly affected by dorm trolling)
Re:In spite of... by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 06:39 · Score: 1

It's amusing how people like you have it all figured out, except, of course, how to earn the money you're so enthusiastic about distributing.

A nickel and a modern liberal arts degree in economics should get you a coffee when it's on special. But you doubtless don't even have the degree.

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Re:In spite of... by lwsimon · 2004-03-21 07:54 · Score: 1

Idiots. I live within 50 miles of the Walmart HQ, the Walton family gave me $50,000 for college. Donated $130M to my university. They spread their money around, but they do it in small chunks, not just one large thing

--
Learn about Photography Basics.
Re:In spite of... by imroy · 2004-03-21 09:04 · Score: 1

$40B? I thought that was about how much he's currently worth. I'd be surprised if the total amount he's given away is more that $1B.
Re:In spite of... by nathanh · 2004-03-21 10:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

The negative thoughts that many /.ers have for Microsoft in general and their top men in specific, Both Gates and Allen have long been active philanthropists. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation [gatesfoundation.org] benefits "global health and learning" (directed by Bill Gates' father).

Bill never donated a dime to any charity until he married Melinda. What does that tell you? It tells me that Bill is still the stingy bastard he always was but Melinda is a much better person.
Of course, being generous with your ill-gotten gains isn't exactly a saintly act. It's like the godfather of the mafia donating to an orphanage. All well and good for the orphanage. Not so good for all the victims of the mafia.
And in case anybody thinks I'm going over the top with my comparison of Bill to the godfather of the mafia, let's not forget that Microsoft has been sued twice by the US DOJ and once by the EU for anticompetitive abuse of their monopoly. They settled once with the US (the terms of which they subsequently broke) and was found guilty by the EU and the US on the two other occasions. This is a company that lies to the court, destroys those companies they can't compete with, and they have been found guilty on more than one occasion of code theft, patent abuse, industrial espionage, and deceptive business practises.
Microsoft is a very abusive company which has been harming the industry for decades. Imagine how far computing could have progressed by now if Microsoft wasn't in such a position of power. We had ubiquitous GUIs in 1984 (AmigaOS, MacOS, GEM, GeOS) but it wasn't until *1995* that a similar level of GUI quality reached the market, thanks to Microsoft. That's 11 years of progress, lost, thanks to the power hungry ambitions of the talentless half of the original Microsoft duo (Paul Allen is a god, but Bill was always second-rate).
Bill doesn't get to wipe his slate clean just because he's spreading around less than *half* of his ill-gotten loot. He needs to give it all away and apologise for screwing this industry over for nearly 2 decades. And he also needs to apologise for that self-serving book he wrote, in which he managed to totally dismiss the importance of the Internet, leading to an unannounced *rewrite* of the book (2nd edition) so he wouldn't look like such a myopic moron to future generations. He's a bad person. Screwing Netscape I can live with. But rewriting history is just... disgusting.
Re:In spite of... by k_head · 2004-03-21 15:38 · Score: 1

I want to correct soemthing. Bill Gates does not give away money. He gives away stock that he owns. The foundation then sells that stock and turns it into money.

Bill Gates didn't actually pay for that stock so all he is giving away is potential income not actual money.

It's a great PR move. He comes off looking good, it does not cost him any money and it adds a perfume of charity on top of all the evil he wallows in.

--
The best way to support the US war effort is to continue buying American products.
Re:In spite of... by k_head · 2004-03-21 15:40 · Score: 1

On the same vein. Osama Bin Laden was very generous to the people of Afghanistan. He personally funded the construction of many schools and hospitals.

Sometimes evil people find a soft spot in their hearts for certain causes.

--
The best way to support the US war effort is to continue buying American products.
Re:In spite of... by beforewisdom · 2004-03-21 16:27 · Score: 1

The negative thoughts that many /.ers have for Microsoft in general and their top men in specific, Both Gates and Allen have long been active philanthropists. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation benefits "global health and learning" (directed by Bill Gates' father).
Philantropy? What human being is benefitting from this 13.5 million? He is paying for some people to get better reception on some static. Gates' & Allen's "philantropy" is bullshit. After they make many people poor they make minor contributions ( in comparrisons to the funds they acquired and are sitting on ) to a few. Its like they robbed some guy down to his skin and then gave 2-3 spare change to buy coffe.
One entry found for philanthropy. Main Entry: philanthropy Pronunciation: -pE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -pies Etymology: Late Latin philanthropia, from Greek philanthrOpia, from philanthrOpos loving people, from phil- + anthrOpos human being 1 : goodwill to fellowmen; especially : active effort to promote human welfare
Re:In spite of... by tbone1 · 2004-03-21 23:44 · Score: 1

Charities aren't about finding solutions; charities are about raising money. You'll notice how most reformers live in the nicest neighborhoods they can afford.
And giving to charities isn't about solving problems. It's about improving your image, making people think well of you, buying your way into heaven, appeasing the mob, whatever.
Humans are ignoble, hairless apes, and swaddling our ignoble actions in noble-sounding words only exacerbates the situation.

--

The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Re:In spite of... by Surt · 2004-03-22 02:56 · Score: 1

It's great to hear about how they are spending my money which they took from me using their illegal monopoly coercion.

Unfortunately, I disagree with their philanthropic choices, so I'm doubly pissed.

--
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking

Re:and meanwhile.... by Paleomacus · 2004-03-21 04:27 · Score: 1

and then we'll outsource the outsourced work to offworld locations. Then the outsourced work that's been outsourced will be outsourced back to India!

Mods:Yes I know _Very_ redundant.

Finiding Alien life by prelelat · 2004-03-21 04:27 · Score: 1

I don't know why we have been trying to find life in space for so long. If there is alien life it would make more sense to me to make a signal that would shoot out faster than radio and television signals with basic information about our selves and a way for then to make their own communication device. This I think would work better than searching the universe for signals. Sending some kind of ultra signal to different galaxies seems to be more likely to get a response to me.

Re:Finiding Alien life by Zathras26 · 2004-03-21 04:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

First of all, "sending a signal to different galaxies" won't work. Among other things, it would take several hundred thousand years for a signal to reach even the closest galaxies to us (the Magellanic Clouds, IIRC). If the signal even got there in the first place, which it probably wouldn't because it would weaken and degrade before it got even a fraction of the distance.

On the more far out and paranoid side, it would probably not be a good idea for us to be advertising our existence. What if the first civilization we found was far more technologically advanced that we are -- and also highly aggressive and hostile? It would be a better idea for us, if we find any other alien civilizations, to study them quietly for a while to see whether we even want them to know about us.
Re:Finiding Alien life by prelelat · 2004-03-21 04:58 · Score: 1

well my thought in the original post was to develop some type of signal that could travel to other galaxies with the money being dumped into searching for a signal, that could hopefully travel to other galaxies. Because on the same note searching for a signal would probably have the same effects as us currently sending a signal to anouther galaxy. not reaching, being weakend and degraded. Thats why I said develop a super signal thats better than tv or radio..
Re:Finiding Alien life by Mr.+Bad+Example · 2004-03-21 05:12 · Score: 1

On the more far out and paranoid side, it would probably not be a good idea for us to be advertising our existence.

We've been advertising our existence for over half a century now. I read somewhere (can't find the source right now) that Earth puts out as much radio flux as a small star. It's a little late to stop, unless we all start subscribing to cable.
Re:Finiding Alien life by Mr.+Bad+Example · 2004-03-21 05:15 · Score: 2, Funny

it would make more sense to me to make a signal that would shoot out faster than radio and television signals

If you find a way to make a communications device that transmits faster than light, I will personally hand-deliver the Nobel Prize to you, along with twenty prostitutes of the gender of your choice. Oh, and a plaque. Can't be an award without a plaque.
Re:Finiding Alien life by Zathras26 · 2004-03-21 05:39 · Score: 1

We've been advertising our existence for over half a century now. I read somewhere (can't find the source right now) that Earth puts out as much radio flux as a small star. It's a little late to stop, unless we all start subscribing to cable.

Good point, but how far do those signals travel before they're no longer detectable? I'd guess it's a pretty short distance -- no more than a couple of light years or so at most -- but I admit that's a semi-educated guess based only a couple of semesters of college physics.
Re:Finiding Alien life by kalidasa · 2004-03-21 06:05 · Score: 1

Sending a signal to another galaxy means waiting for 50,000 years for a response (from Canis Major Dwarf, a shredded up galaxy on the outskirts of the Milky Way 25Kly away, even closer than the Magellanics). Listening now means maybe, just maybe finding out very soon whether or not we're alone. It's called "asynchronous communication."
And, to be honest, I would rather sit back and listen first before speaking up; better to find out what kind of crowd we're in before we post. Rather like an old-style USENET group - lurk until we understand the rules. Assuming there's more than one group out there actually transmitting.
By the way, the search pretty much assumes we're looking for deliberate transmitters, not leakage. Leakage would be very unlikely to have the power to reach us, at least with current tech.

But... They're here already by prandal · 2004-03-21 04:28 · Score: 1

MUFON. Can't be bothered to Google for the zillions of other good UFO references.

Re:Paul Allen to pitch aliens by Patrik_AKA_RedX · 2004-03-21 04:28 · Score: 1

Now this gives me pause for thought. What if an alien civilisation were to base it's opinions about terrans on MS Windows.. I know what I'd think - ripe for conquest!

I think they would think we worship the color blue. Why else would it appear so many times in our OS?

Re:and meanwhile.... by koreth · 2004-03-21 04:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

Damn straight. And while we're at it, shut down that stupid Carnegie Endowment for the Arts -- how dare those arrogant rich blowhards pay someone to sit around doodling when there are hungry kids on the street? I mean, who cares if it's their money; what right do they have to say what it's spent on when there are obviously higher priorities out there?

Re:and meanwhile.... by andhravodu · 2004-03-21 04:29 · Score: 1

Isn't you gov't supposed to do the above things? Forget about finding aliens, they can't even find WMD's.
Now don't start saying that the money was microsoft tax paid by normal people like the rest of us. If it isn't MSFT tax, it could have well been unix tax, linux tax, mac tax ... atleast M$ charges lesser than the few. And oh yeah, I have found very few who paid full price for Windows XP

Shouldn't we.. by firew0lfz · 2004-03-21 04:31 · Score: 1

be spending money on putting a telescope on the moon?

--
Try not to let life get in the way of living.

So you'd like us to .... what? by purduephotog · 2004-03-21 04:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wish I could recall the reference, but you'd like to pour all of that money into the poor, the downtrodden, the unlucky? Spend it as fast as it's made?

Where do you think that money will end up? Is he handing them dollar bills that are then burned to generate power to scan the sky? Nope, it's paid.

My neighbor is a teacher at an inner city school. The kids talk about getting old enough to stay home so they 'can get their check' from the government. That's their sole purpose in life- to get a government welfare check.

We've already got enough broken goods in this world. Lets search for solutions and reach for problems that might just lift us and build a new foundation, and just not try to shore up an already crumbled one.

Contrary to StarTrek, you will not feed, clothe, and educate every single person in the world. No matter how much I, and you, wish it might be possible :(

There are ways to kill a person, but killing the dreams and hopes are the most cruel.

Re:So you'd like us to .... what? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 04:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wish I could recall the reference, but you'd like to pour all of that money into the poor, the downtrodden, the unlucky? Spend it as fast as it's made?

No kidding. How many more trillions of dollars do we have to give those people before the whole Great Society thing actually happens?

Insanity isn't looking for aliens. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome. The welfare state is insanity.
Re:So you'd like us to .... what? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 04:58 · Score: 1, Interesting

Contrary to StarTrek, you will not feed, clothe, and educate every single person in the world.

It's possible with the right investment. Nanotech, for instance. "Star Trek" had no problems with clothes, food or education because of replicators. Drexlerian nanofabricators are not only possible, but probable.

You can always find some ass with an opinion on how you should best spend your money, but that doesn't mean all criticism is therefore null. If a billionaire decides to spend millions digging a hole in the ground and then filling it back up, I'm going to call him a moron, even if he is fully within his rights (and hopes and dreams of hole-digging) to spend money that way.

Of course, Allen's telescope array will have other uses. In fact, its other uses will be its primary uses, since it isn't going to detect jack shit as far as life goes (just a guess, will gladly retract when proven wrong!). So it's not too bad an investment, it's just the motive that's loopy.

There are ways to kill a person, but killing the dreams and hopes are the most cruel.

Dreams in the context you bandy are dreams of personal success. Uh, I don't think Allen will have a problem there.

Killing someone's dream of spending millions on the virtual equivalent of taking a piss is not really that cruel, especially when the dreamer is an idle billionaire.
Re:So you'd like us to .... what? by cain · 2004-03-21 05:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

I wish I could recall the reference, but you'd like to pour all of that money into the poor, the downtrodden, the unlucky? Spend it as fast as it's made?
What reference are you talking about?
My neighbor is a teacher at an inner city school. The kids talk about getting old enough to stay home so they 'can get their check' from the government. That's their sole purpose in life- to get a government welfare check.
I call shenanigans. This is second-hand hearsay - and I very much doubt this is true. I live in the "inner city", my sister teaches at an inner-city school and sees and hears no such thing. The poor are just that - poor. They are not lazy, greedy, or looking for hand-outs.
We've already got enough broken goods in this world. Lets search for solutions and reach for problems that might just lift us and build a new foundation, and just not try to shore up an already crumbled one.
OK - you go first. Let's hear some real ideas rather than these hand-waving platitudes.
Contrary to StarTrek, you will not feed, clothe, and educate every single person in the world. No matter how much I, and you, wish it might be possible :(
Again - platitudes. Cites? Why can't we feed everyone? How does this second-grade tripe get modded up as insightful on Slashdot?
Re:So you'd like us to .... what? by cain · 2004-03-21 05:29 · Score: 1

Everyone who cares about helping people.
Re:So you'd like us to .... what? by cain · 2004-03-21 06:04 · Score: 1

I don't think any generalizations can be made about the poor.

Yeah, true. I realized after I posted that I should have said that they are no more lazy, greedy, than any other person. I just hate when the idea is put forth that the poor "inner city" people are greedier or any less human simply because they are poor. Especically when it come from people who are not poor and use it to justify getting rid of welfare.
Re:So you'd like us to .... what? by An+Onerous+Coward · 2004-03-21 06:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

So you have one neighbor who claims that the poor people she meets have no higher aspirations in life than to get themselves a fat, cushy welfare check. Therefore, it is time to write them all off; every dollar spent trying to feed, clothe, and educate the poor may as well be flushed down the toilet.

Okay, I'm certainly exaggerating your actual position. I apologize for that. But it doesn't sound like you have sufficient evidence to make such general pronouncements.

I don't mind the fact that Mr. Allen pumped a few million into SETI. I think a positive result is a bit of a longshot, but it's nevertheless valuable scientific research. It's the fact that one person can have that kind of money to throw at nifty little side projects. Sure, a precisely equal distribution of wealth retards a lot of the motivation needed to keep the economy running. On the other hand, I don't see how someone like Bill Gates or Paul Allen would say, "Screw it, I'm just going on welfare" if they were legally barred from attaining more than two billion in aggregate wealth (just to pick a number out of thin air). Capitalism doesn't need to provide infinite incentive in order for the incentive to be effective.

I know that Mr. Allen didn't just donate the money on a lark. He's a savvy businessman, and probably did a good deal of research into the project and its chances of success. But in the end, it was his money, and if he'd wanted to donate it towards buying gourmet doggie treats for every dog in the world, nobody but Mrs. Allen could stop him. I'm having trouble with the idea that one person should be able to amass that kind of power.

Personally, I think it would be possible to feed, clothe, and educate every person in the world. Not in fifty years, when nanotech takes off. Not in twenty years when robotic labor becomes more efficient than most human labor. Right now. You could even throw in medical care, environmental protection, and a whole load of scientific research.

The catch is, there is a lot we would have to give up; a lot of lifestyle changes that we would have to make. We're not willing to make them. We won't even entertain the idea of giving up our cars, or our suburbs, or changing our diets. So let's just console ourselves by saying it was never really possible in the first place.

--
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Re:So you'd like us to .... what? by JohnGalt00 · 2004-03-21 07:29 · Score: 1

The poor are just that - poor. They are not lazy, greedy, or looking for hand-outs.

Seeing how there are rich people who are lazy, greedy and looking for hand-outs, I sincerely doubt that there no poor people who are lazy, greedy and looking for hand outs. The grandparent was most definitely wrong to say that all of the poor are lazy, and in the same way you are wrong to say that none of the poor are lazy.

There are indeed a lot of people in this country who are looking for a hand out, and there are a lot of people on welfare. Put those together and you have people looking for a hand out on welfare.

Uh-oh by mkro · 2004-03-21 04:36 · Score: 1

Allen will have given $US25 million for construction of the Allen Telescope Array (ATA), a network of 350 radio telescopes being built to find signs of life in space

If you build it, they will come. ...and KICK OUR ASS!

--
I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.

nothing changes by jdkane · 2004-03-21 04:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen ... 350 radio telescopes being built to find signs of life in space

This is living proof that no matter how popular, powerful or rich a computer geek becomes, he never leaves his roots. The difference is instead of running SETI@home like the rest of the masses, instead he's funding such projects because he can -- plus it would be nice to have your name attached to an array of radio telescopes. Maybe he has to pay for each letter of his last name -- the latest being 13.5 mil to get the 'N' -- good thing he doesn't have a Russian last name.

Re:nothing changes by sean23007 · 2004-03-21 18:43 · Score: 1

Yeah, because Cyrillic characters cost more.

--

Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.

I Thought by Greyfox · 2004-03-21 04:43 · Score: 2, Funny

They were looking for someone who liked them. It's getting pretty hostile for them here on Earth. Either that or a new customer base. Everyone knows Aliens run Apple. That's why their networks run Appletalk and are succeptable to virusses written on Apple computers. Maybe Microsoft's looking to push into that market.

--

I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

Re:Paul Allen to pitch aliens by Felinoid · 2004-03-21 04:46 · Score: 1

I think they would think we worship the color blue. Why else would it appear so many times in our OS?
You mean Windows? Not my os man...
Actually a while back I read an artical on how blue attracts sales. Basicly blue somehow makes a person happy with the product.
(I don't know how)

Hence the blue backdrop and even more so the blue screen of death and the blue sky theam for Win 95 and 98.
Also the Commodore 64 screen was all blue.. Blue text blue backdrop blue borders. Just diffrent shades of blue. Wasn't a very smart idea.

On the other hand RED makes people want to run away. Such as ohh say an all Red Mascot or logo.
(The Red Hat of RedHat and the Daemon of BSD.. as well as Daemon lady who shows up at the shows...)

However the artical never said the color could make the product seam better than it is or that the color red would have any impact on sales when the product was very good.

--
I don't actually exist.

Whats this value in parentheses? by dafoomie · 2004-03-21 04:46 · Score: 1

$US13.5 million ($17.99 million)
$US25 million ($33.32 million)

Whats this value in the parentheses? Is this Paul Allen's money's performance rating?

Or are we looking at what he actually gave, and what he'll claim he gave on his taxes?

Re:Whats this value in parentheses? by Raven42rac · 2004-03-21 04:52 · Score: 2, Informative

Well, if I could venture a guess, given the fact that story is on a *.au domain, that the figure in parentheses is in Australian dollars.

--
I hate sigs.
Re:Whats this value in parentheses? by jabberjaw · 2004-03-21 04:53 · Score: 1

I do believe that those are Australian dollars.
Re:Whats this value in parentheses? by dafoomie · 2004-03-21 04:54 · Score: 1

1. Slashdot is an American site. 2. Get a sense of humor.
Re:Whats this value in parentheses? by timothv · 2004-03-21 04:55 · Score: 1

The site has a .au TLD, can you guess it from there?

Re:and meanwhile.... by jabberjaw · 2004-03-21 04:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Well it is his money. If he feels like donating some to help fund SETI, so be it. If he feels like donating it to the educational system, so be it. If he feels like throwing it on his bed and rolling around naked on it , then so be it.

Looking for coders by evil+crash · 2004-03-21 04:50 · Score: 1

That can actually code a secure op system that's not bloated and full of holes. Maybe, just maybe...

--
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."-THG

Re:and meanwhile.... by yulek · 2004-03-21 04:51 · Score: 4, Informative

Paul Allen gives to education, medical research, arts and music, etc.

--
in this age of communication i'm just not getting through

And somehow... by Cereal+Box · 2004-03-21 04:52 · Score: 2, Funny

... since he's related to Microsoft, this contribution has to be wrong or evil for some reason.

Come on, get those conspiracy theories going already!

Should not say "Microsoft's Paul Allen" by angle_slam · 2004-03-21 04:54 · Score: 5, Informative

For those who don't know, Paul Allen co-founded MSFT with Bill Gates back in 1975. He left the company in 1983 due to health reasons (Hodgkins Disease), though he kept much of his stock holdings and a seat on the Board of Directors. He later became a "Senior Strategy Advisor" to MSFT after he left the Board, though it is not clear that he still has that position with MSFT.

While Paul Allen was an integral part of the formation of MSFT, he has had little say in the Windows era of the company and I don't think it is correct to say "Microsoft's Paul Allen".

Re:Should not say "Microsoft's Paul Allen" by nvrrobx · 2004-03-21 08:20 · Score: 1

Saying, "Vulcan Venture's Paul Allen" would be more accurate at this point.
Re:Should not say "Microsoft's Paul Allen" by Threni · 2004-03-22 01:24 · Score: 1

A)Paul Allen co-founded MSFT
B)I don't think it is correct to say "Microsoft's Paul Allen".

Er...logic error. Of course it's correct. It's `the Paul Allen of Microsoft`. You don't stop calling Franklin one of America's presidents because he's dead, do you?
Re:Should not say "Microsoft's Paul Allen" by angle_slam · 2004-03-22 06:46 · Score: 1

I don't call Franklin one of America's Presidents because he never was one of America's Presidents. If you meant to put in Washington or someone who actually was President, that is another thing entirely. US President is a historical position. But when you say Microsoft's Paul Allen, you imply that he is still associated with MSFT.
My point about Allen is that most of the bad things /. associates with MSFT was done after Allen left MSFT.

Well, of course! by WheelDweller · 2004-03-21 04:55 · Score: 2, Funny

Like with Starbucks and Mc Donalds, hasn't Microsoft reached saturation? Gotta sell those licenses somehow. And once they have our computers, further scientific study is EASY. We can just use spyware. :>

--
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov

What year was that report? by way2trivial · 2004-03-21 04:56 · Score: 1

How about Von Neumann machines?

Launch one into the asteroid belt... one successful design is all you need to cover everywhere......

(of course, that's also a technological impossibility for now)

--
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random

Microsoft Money by da_anarchist · 2004-03-21 04:56 · Score: 1

pledged to donate $US13.5 million ($17.99 million) for research into extra-terrestrial life. With the contribution, Allen will have given $US25 million ($33.32 million) What, is a Microsoft(c) Dollar worth more than that picture of ol'e George I have in my wallet?

What about discounts... by SmackCrackandPot · 2004-03-21 04:57 · Score: 1

If contact is made, will Microsoft try and offer discounts on all it's products? The thought of an non-Microsoft OS must be rather scary.

Re:What about discounts... by cptgrudge · 2004-03-21 05:49 · Score: 1

A potential galactic civilization that uses something other than Microsoft? There go all the antitrust cases, at least assuming the aliens eventually went all open source.
Terran Linux distros are "alien" to many people, but an actual alien Linux-like OS that has reached it's natural conclusion of ultimate usability and extreme functionality after a few thousand years of refinement? I'd use it, and I think a lot of others would too.
Of course, any alien race would probably have drastically different ergonomic needs for the interface, but maybe they could give us a few pointers.

--
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium

Not only one of the richest people... by holizz · 2004-03-21 04:58 · Score: 1

but his ego's bigger than his pal Billy's bank balance.

A New Market by Jim_Hawkins · 2004-03-21 04:59 · Score: 2, Funny

Oh, it's quite obvious as to what's going on here. You'd have to be an idiot not to see it.

Microsoft wants to find someone/thing that has NOT heard of Linux.

:: grins ::

Microsofts Paul Allen? by Felinoid · 2004-03-21 05:05 · Score: 3, Interesting

I had no idea Microsoft owned Paul Allen. I had the idea that Paul Allen holds (or once held) partal ownership in Microsoft.

How about Tech TVs Paul Allen?
That IS a bit more recent and Tech TV has quite an anti-Microsoft bent to boot. Watch the Screen Savers. Leo Laport who's been with Tech TV from the days when it was ZDTV is a Mac Zellot and the Dark Tipper is a Linux supporter.
It seams anyone on Tech TV who is vocal about Microsoft will bash them every chance they get.
Some times Tech TV can be as bad as Slashdot.

And who is behind all this antiMicrosoft bashing? Paul Allen.

In short: Mr Allen dose not have Microsofts best intrests at heart.
And I'm quite happy about that.

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I don't actually exist.

Re:Microsofts Paul Allen? by Epistax · 2004-03-21 06:09 · Score: 1

Is it Microsoft's Bill Gates, or Bill Gates' Microsoft? (or Bill Gates' America?)

Must be a market thing... by flxkid · 2004-03-21 05:05 · Score: 1

Hmm

Microsoft must have decided that they need to increase their potential customer base...

I guess if I were MS I'd probably put my money on other worldly markets.

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Better VDF than VD...check it out: Data Access

Skeptical by Biotech9 · 2004-03-21 05:09 · Score: 1, Insightful

I am not too excited about this for two reasons. Firstly, its seen as a good philantropic action, which the other MS founder Gates is famous for. He donates the most cash in the world to the poor. Except its not cash, a lot of it is in the form of software, CDs of Office and XP for the poor that cost nothing to make, and have a huge tax back cost for Microsoft. And its a nice way to get the poor locked into windows and not free OS like Linux. Secondly, This much money can buy a lot of equipment to help find life on other planets. Meanwhile on Earth we still have millions of preventable deaths every year. And by preventable I mean deaths of children or the very poor from malnourishment or lack of clean water supplies. If this much money was given to the poor in developing countries, it could save insane amounts of lives. To give so much cash to look for aliens that might not even exist, While members of our own species die in vast numbers for want of clean water, is disgusting. (sorry if that is a bit "High Horse"-like, but its SO MUCH MONEY!

Re:Skeptical by donutello · 2004-03-21 06:17 · Score: 4, Insightful

I am not too excited about this for two reasons. Firstly, its seen as a good philantropic action, which the other MS founder Gates is famous for.

What are you, a frigging idiot? You're not excited about this because it is seen as a good philanthropic action? What do you get excited about then? Actions that are seen as pure evil.

He donates the most cash in the world to the poor. Except its not cash, a lot of it is in the form of software, CDs of Office and XP for the poor that cost nothing to make, and have a huge tax back cost for Microsoft. And its a nice way to get the poor locked into windows and not free OS like Linux.

You are confusing Microsoft's charitable contributions with Bill Gates' charitable contributions. They are two separate entities. Actually, there's a third entity: The Bill & Melinda Gates foundation - funded almost entirely by Bill and Melinda Gates. Bill Gates gives cash & stock to the B&M foundation, which in turn funds various charitable activities around the world. You've read one story about Microsoft donating software somewhere and have the whole thing confused up in your muddled head. Maybe you should educate yourself about the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation and exactly what it has donated before you spout about it because otherwise you sound like an idiot. Microsoft does not get a tax benefit from Bill Gates or the B&M foundations donations. BG or the B&M foundation don't get software for free.

Secondly, This much money can buy a lot of equipment to help find life on other planets. Meanwhile on Earth we still have millions of preventable deaths every year. And by preventable I mean deaths of children or the very poor from malnourishment or lack of clean water supplies. If this much money was given to the poor in developing countries, it could save insane amounts of lives. To give so much cash to look for aliens that might not even exist, While members of our own species die in vast numbers for want of clean water, is disgusting. (sorry if that is a bit "High Horse"-like, but its SO MUCH MONEY!

Let me guess, if you had your way, we would stop all research that wasn't going to immediately benefit humanity in some foreseeable way. The only problem would be that it would have to be foreseeable by a short-sighted fool like you. The whole point of research is to investigate avenues that have the potential to provide a multi-fold benefit to humanity in the future - although some of those might not pan out.

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Mmmm.. Donuts
Re:Skeptical by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 06:32 · Score: 2, Informative

Nope. Bill Gates donates cash. Not 'software, CDs of Office and XP.'

There's nothing wrong, I suppose, with having an anti-Microsoft sentiment overall. I'm personally in the process right now of moving all my home and home-business operations off Microsoft**. I'm not that fond of Microsoft. But even I know that the Gates Foundation giving is seperate from Microsoft and that it's cold cash they're distributing.

(** why the hell does OpenOffice pop up that damned 'Register Now' dialogue EVERY TIME I open it, even though I've registered it? And why is it such a fucking resource pig, even on this Pentium III 500 machine with 768 megs of RAM? I can run the important bits of Office 2000 reasonably well on my 486DX-2 75MHz laptop. Well, xfig and LyX do most of what I need anyway.)

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Re:Skeptical by kundor · 2004-03-21 08:19 · Score: 1

Umm, tell OO that you're already registered and it will go away. And i've never had any resource problems with OO 1.1.1....granted, I have an athlon64, so that means fairly little.
And to be honest, I don't believe that you can run Word 2000 on a 486. Modern Words could barely keep up with my typing on a k6-2 450 I used to have...
Re:Skeptical by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 16:18 · Score: 1

I've responded to the OO nagscreen twice by going to the website it brings up and registering. I've responded many multiple times by clicking 'I registered'. There's no 'Bug Off' button to click. This isn't the place to complain about a particular app, though, so I'll 'bug off.'

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I wonder.... by purduephotog · 2004-03-21 05:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

... how many people currently bashing the donation would say the same thing if "Linus" gave it instead.

Paul is also the sponsor of Space Ship One.

If it helps the Microsoft bashing crowd, think of it as a 'tax' on those that don't know Linux is a better solution.... :)

Re:I wonder.... by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 06:36 · Score: 1

Actually, Linux is more of a precipitate than a solution.

Mind you, I like hanging around here in the bottom of the beaker more than I would swirling around up in the middle and top regions.

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Re:I wonder.... by DigiShaman · 2004-03-21 08:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

For Joe Sixpack and the diehard gamers, Linux is NOT a better solution. If Windows is not an option, then I'll take Mac please.

Remember, the amount of destros of Linux is equally it's downfall. Untill Linux becomes more standardized, I don't think your average PC users is going to invest into an OS with an uncertain future (regarding change and adaptation). Though I for one hope Linux dethrones Windows. I get angry everytime I hear about consumers having to pay the M$ tax. Grrrrrrrrrr

--
Life is not for the lazy.
Re:I wonder.... by rmohr02 · 2004-03-21 13:33 · Score: 1

I wonder...how many people currently bashing the donation would say the same thing if "Linus" gave it instead.
Who's bashing the donation itself? I may not like Microsoft, but Paul Allen has little to do with Microsoft anymore, but I do like SETI, and see no reason to bash anyone for giving money to them. Some may poke fun at the donation, but few hate the fact that Paul Allen gave money to SETI.

Why just listen? by jsebrech · 2004-03-21 05:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

Why do we always just listen and never send? It seems we're afraid of actually making contact. What if the aliens are also being prudent and just listening? We could be listening to each other's silence for millenia.

An alien civilization could be less than 20 light years away. At that distance, you could start a conversation. Sure, it would take decades for every answer, but you wouldn't have to wait for the answer to ask more questions. It would be the most historical event of the millenium, to learn that we aren't alone.

I don't really understand the whole "prudence" argument either. If a civilization doesn't have interstellar travel, they pose no threat. If they DO have interstellar travel and are close enough to receive our signals, it would seem extremely likely they've already visited our solar system, studied its natives, and decided making contact wasn't worth it. Either way, it seems unlikely an alien civilization would show up "independance day"-style to destroy us.

So why aren't we transmitting?

Re:Why just listen? by swimmar132 · 2004-03-21 05:45 · Score: 1

We are sending messages. You know radio signals? Those don't just stop at your radio. They keep going.
Re:Why just listen? by FurryFeet · 2004-03-21 07:32 · Score: 1

Wow. i just had a vision of hundreds of inhabited planets, with intellinget beings hoping there's extraterrestrial life. And all of them are listening.
Re:Why just listen? by jsebrech · 2004-03-21 09:32 · Score: 1

We are sending messages. You know radio signals? Those don't just stop at your radio. They keep going.

At the signal strength we're sending those, we might as well not be sending them at all.

Radio signals die off pretty fast with distance. I'm not a physicist, but it would surprise me if it's possible to pick up the radio signals we broadcast (whenever they arrive) at the nearest star.
Re:Why just listen? by ross.w · 2004-03-21 10:01 · Score: 4, Funny

We are transmitting, and have been for over 70 years.

Ever since the invention of radio transmissions, there has been an expanding bubble of random RF moving away from the Earth at the speed of light.

Any sufficiently advance civilisation within 70 light years or so already knows we're here.

Conversly, our own listening is far more likely to pick up an advertorial for a product to keep your tentacles young and scaly looking than any message intended for us.

--
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?

Re:and meanwhile.... by 2.246.1010.78 · 2004-03-21 05:35 · Score: 1

I really cannot decide if you try to be funny or just are a troll...

It's always a question of distributing resources (p.e. money, time) to the different tasks a society is about to fulfill. The amount of money spent on research is a bad joke. If all people could come to an agreement to stop development in all aspects a huge amount of money could be freed. We'd just build the things people need. And then? No development means a step back. Living in a world full of decay and in a declining society isn't exactly what I'd call a bright future. Change is natural to Humankind and we should try do have enough possible futures so that we can chose the right one.

I don't like hungry children in our streets, too, but I am more concerned with the amount of money the US is dumping into its military. And the increasing corruption in the western world. This is serious money that doesn't really help anyone, so stop bitching about peanuts like money for seti and basic research and rather write a letter to a politician of your choice.

I didn't want to rant but, well...

Nah ... by gstoddart · 2004-03-21 05:37 · Score: 1

Too obvious.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.

Vorgons? by 2.246.1010.78 · 2004-03-21 05:38 · Score: 1

Well, in case the vorgons are about to build their intergalactic highway it may indeed be wise just to listen on the intergalactic channels.

Irony by mR+SlIcK · 2004-03-21 05:41 · Score: 1

That would be interesting if someone discovered the SETI uses Linux based systems. I wonder if M$ would be so eager to give money then

Re:Irony by swimmar132 · 2004-03-21 05:47 · Score: 1

Microsoft has nothing to do with Paul Allen giving money.
Re:Irony by VanillaCoke420 · 2004-03-21 09:32 · Score: 1

Everyone knows that. Well, except for 99% of those posting comments to this story, that is.

They're listening on the wrong band by Wingsy · 2004-03-21 05:42 · Score: 1

Science will never find signs of life while listening to the radio. Advanced cultures quickly find betters ways to communicate long distances. For your information, what they use are very high frequency gravity waves.

--
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.

Re:They're listening on the wrong band by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 13:57 · Score: 1, Interesting

I'm very interested in your alleged knowledge of advanced cultures. Have you spoken with any lately? Radio frequencies between 1-100Ghz are used because they are the most affordable while also being more resistant to interference in the interstellar medium. Since we don't have a high frequency gravity wave receiver on the commercial market (ATA is built more or less with commercially available parts), it might be a bit hard for SETI to prove/disprove your hypothesis.
Good work though! You should get started on a SETI project of your own and wow the world with your hard won proof!

Donations like this... by AArmadillo · 2004-03-21 05:48 · Score: 1

Sometimes I wonder if donations like this are actually heading to the right causes. We still have world hunger, poverty, disease, and other significant problems on this planet. Would it not make more sense to solve these problems first, before donating to the minute possibility that we might discover alien life on another planet? Its his money, so he can do whatever he wants with it, but personally I don't see donating to the search for alien life being nearly as philanthropic as, say, donating towards the search for a cure for cancer.

Re:Donations like this... by DF5JT · 2004-03-21 07:01 · Score: 1

" Sometimes I wonder if donations like this are actually heading to the right causes. We still have world hunger, poverty, disease, and other significant problems on this planet. Would it not make more sense to solve these problems first, before donating to the minute possibility that we might discover alien life on another planet? Its his money, so he can do whatever he wants with it, but personally I don't see donating to the search for alien life being nearly as philanthropic as, say, donating towards the search for a cure for cancer."

You are not a very farsighted man.

As long as it is technology research not focused on capitalistic profit, it will serve many other, fundamentally important, purposes in return. SETI research funds many other aspects of new technology research, such as supercomputing (here goes your cancer research), astrophysics, geology, meteorology and many others. All those antenna arrays for SETI are simultaneously in use for all kinds of astrophysical research. These in turn will help us to understand our own planet a lot better, will help to bring about radically new solutions for old problems. A different view of life, its development, the use of resources on our planet, all this will be researched with this ATA project.

I couldn't think of money better spent than on this project and I applaud Paul Allen for contributing to this project with his own money.

Re:and meanwhile.... by PsiPsiStar · 2004-03-21 05:50 · Score: 1, Offtopic

Well, the commies are gone. We have to have some excuse to invade whatever country we want. I think fighting terrorism is a great idea. I just think we should stop funding it while we're at it.

The US government has carried out operations in Central America that fit every definition of terrorism that the US has put forward
http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=27 0
i.e. Deliberate attacks on 'soft' (i.e civilian) targets in Nicaragua. You had a church full of civilians slaughtered at El Mozote, El Salvador which was just the worst of a prolonged campaign by the US that fits the definition of terrorism. That included women and Children, who were raped and killed by the Atlacatel(sp), Salvadoran soldiers trained in US counterinsurgency tactics and responsible for some of the worst atrocities of the Salvadoran civil war.

Heck, The US was the one who encouraged Saddam Hussein to use poison gas during the Iran-Iraq war, and gave him many of his 'WMDs.'

The CIA sees the world in terms of straight power relations. "Pre Emptive war" has always been their doctrine. I have no doubt the 'War on Terror' will help America maintain it's position in the world. It might even protect American children by destroying someone who might oneday threaten American interests. But if you think its preventing children from being killed, you've been watching news reports with a direct feed from the government for too long. The 'War on Terror' is not a 'war on terror'. It's a war to attack whomsoever the US pleases for whatever reason that they please.

The CIA is still completly free to use terrorist tactics if they want.

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It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.

What software... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 05:53 · Score: 1, Interesting

... will be used ? When I was working at Geneva observatory, they used SUN workstations and a Linux cluster. Actually, very much everywhere I have been (CERN, KEK, ...), scientists use UNIX or Linux. I wonder wether there will be an encouragement to use MS soft there, and wether scientist would comply.

Guess What by JumboMessiah · 2004-03-21 05:57 · Score: 1

Guess what else Paul Allen funds .

First contact by Alsee · 2004-03-21 06:05 · Score: 1

When we finally do detect a signal of intelligent origin it'll probably be a stray porno signal.

-

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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.

$US13.5 million by heldlik · 2004-03-21 06:08 · Score: 1

WOW! - that's a lot of tinfoilhats!!!!

Solaris8 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 06:09 · Score: 1, Informative

Sun has donated many machines (and possibly money) to the Seti Institute which would explain why they use Solaris.

Re:Solaris8 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-21 13:45 · Score: 1, Informative

Sun's Greg Papadopoulos is the Chairman of the Board @ SETI.

Re:and meanwhile.... by DF5JT · 2004-03-21 06:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

While I usually ignore postings that have more ad hominem attacks in them than substance, this one triggers a couple of questions I'd like to have answered by someone who obviously thinks that we haven't spent enough money on this declared war:

- With the Billions of Dollars spent since 2001, has the world become a safer place?

- How would you value the loss of privacy and restrictions in personal life as compared to the achieved level of felling a lot more secure?

- How much money would you want to spend on the war and when would you declare it over?

- Who actually benefits from the spending spree on this war? Are YOU safer?

Call me a heretic, but spending these Billions of Dollars on education, healthcare, enhancement of international relations sounds like something that children might actually benefir a lot more from, as opposed to having them trained that every unknown person they encounter is a potential terrorists.

I know your mileage varies, but I fail to see any relation between the war on terror and children dying in the streets. Last time I checked it was the war itself that left children dying in the streets.

And I haven't even talked about the hen/egg problem...

Microsoft's new Market by Whitt83 · 2004-03-21 06:16 · Score: 1

Well, profits are down, and they need somebody to buy the next version of Windows. Who better than aliens?

Re:and meanwhile.... by Bullseye_blam · 2004-03-21 06:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is the same reasoning that I use when I run the Folding@Home distributed project versus SETI.

Re:Good news? by stand · 2004-03-21 06:24 · Score: 1

C'mon moderators! The parent comment isn't a troll.

But you have to understand the designated Microsoft Rich Guy Roles. Bill Gates does the good works stuff, Paul Allen does the weird shit.

--
Four fifths of all our troubles in this life would disappear if we would just sit down and keep still. -C. Coolidge

....just not right. by John+Pfeiffer · 2004-03-21 06:28 · Score: 1

Okay....I read 'Paul Allen' as 'Real Alien' when I saw the headline.... I'm switching to decaf.

--

Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*

If we only had real progressive taxation, we could by Cryofan · 2004-03-21 06:41 · Score: 2, Troll

we could tax 70% or more of Allen's money, which would yield billions. THen we could not only fund interesting science like searching for aliens, but we could also fund science research to cure cancer and heart disease and old age. And wouldn't THAT be nice.

Pull your heads out of your asses, fellow Americans: social democracy and progressive taxation is the way to go, not corporate capitalism and flat rate taxation.....

--
eat shiat and bark at the moon

Re:and meanwhile.... by Endive4Ever · 2004-03-21 06:47 · Score: 1

Your musty old 'class warfare' terminology needs a little airing out, dood.

Ditch the timeworn 'French Enlightement' terminology for your contrived 'social classes.' It makes you look like a damned fool. Or a fucking Trotskyite. As if there's a difference.

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Re:Paul Allen to pitch aliens by PhoenixFlare · 2004-03-21 06:56 · Score: 1

I know you're just joking around, but really...If you're using Win 2000 or XP and it bluescreens THAT much, you either have some serious hardware problems or something badly misconfigured.

This perception that Windows can't go 5 seconds without a BSOD is just silly.

How much have you donated? by NineNine · 2004-03-21 07:29 · Score: 1

So, dickhead... how much have YOU donated to clean water funds? I want to see your personal financial statements for the past 10 years, THEN I'll listen to you bitch about somebody else's charity, you scum-sucking lowlife.

Re:How much have you donated? by Biotech9 · 2004-03-21 08:25 · Score: 1

how much have YOU donated to clean water funds?

10 euro per moth for the last 3 years. Its not much, but I have no job.

All I mean is, To me, that money could be better used elsewhere. Such a lot of money can save a lot of lives. such a load of radio telescopes prbbaly won't find many aliens.

but hey, its his money. I guess its better than spending it on hookers or paying for a lesbians virginity.
Re:How much have you donated? by NineNine · 2004-03-21 09:51 · Score: 1

but hey, its his money.

That's my point. That's the basis of a free economy. He can spend his money on hookers and coke for all I care. He's entitled to. If you want to get a $1mil/year job and donate it ALL, that's your perogative.

Re:If we only had real progressive taxation, we co by NineNine · 2004-03-21 07:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

Godd idea. Then lazy fucks such as yourself can sit on your collective asses while people like Paul Allen pay your way with their hard work while not being properly compensated fot it. Read "Atlas Shrugged", you ignoramus.

It looks like Microsoft is running out of ideas by Mike+McCune · 2004-03-21 07:32 · Score: 1

It looks like M$ has run out of people on earth to steal technology from, so they are looking to other worlds. Like all M$ ideas, this is not an original and has been done before

--

In a world that is Free and Open, who needs Windows and Gates?

Two valid reasons... by maynard · 2004-03-21 07:33 · Score: 1

Why do we always just listen and never send? It seems we're afraid of actually making contact. What if the aliens are also being prudent and just listening? We could be listening to each other's silence for millenia.

Two valid reasons:

1) Point the antenna/laser where? Since we don't know of anyone else sending, we don't know where to send. And broadcasting directed EM in any random direction is highly unlikely to hit pay dirt.

2) Announcements are a poor survival strategy when in a new and unfamiliar environment. If intelligent life is teeming throughout our galaxy (big if), we would be damn fools to announce our locataion thusly. It's like walking into a new jungle alone and without weapons while screaming our location to all the nearby predators. I prefer prudence to recklessness. JMO

Cheers,
--Maynard

And by TheDarkRogue · 2004-03-21 07:37 · Score: 1

Does the array do anything else other then listen to the static?

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(Score:0, Interesting)

you totally misunderstand the motivations for work by Cryofan · 2004-03-21 07:44 · Score: 1, Offtopic

First, the human animal is a pack animal that has as a primary motivation the attainment of higher social status, and to reproduce. By attaining such higher social status, individual human animals increase their reproductive opportunities, thus passing on their genes to another generation. Those with the highest social status are best able to reproduce and pass on their genes. Most (if not ALL) of our behavior is based on this motivation, although we almost always ascribe other motivations to our behaviors.

The important thing for you, dear reader, to understand is that ANY differentiation between one human animal and another human animal may serve to increase social status.

In order to illustrate this principle, let us consider a hypothetical society: all work is taxed 99.9999%, andfurthermore, there is only one consumer good: a blue ribbon. This society is capitalistic, and indeed, it is a social democracy: people work for a living, and the very high tax rate enables the state to provide food, housing, medical care, infrastructure, etc.

The only thing that the state does not provide is the blue ribbon. And that is what everyone works for. It can only be purchased at a great price. Once you have the blue ribbon, you have high social status, and thus you have greater reproductive opportunities.

The point is that human animals will work hard as long as there is an opportunity to gain social status, even if the differentiation between themselves and others is small, as long as there IS a differentiation, and as long as that differentiation can only be obtained through working in a capitalist system.

That hypothetical society is what the social democracies of NW Europe are, to a lesser extent.

--
eat shiat and bark at the moon

Exactly! by purduephotog · 2004-03-21 07:59 · Score: 1

Invest in Nanotech .... or spend that money feeding people.

Which has the greatest potential for returns?

And I didn't mean dreams in terms of Allen at all...

Nah, I never said they all were- by purduephotog · 2004-03-21 08:03 · Score: 1

- but that's half the problem. Telling the difference between those that give a shit and those that sit and shit.

Hence the dilemna. I truly doubt, as one poster replied, that she's making this stuff. No one gets home from work that infuriated with stories that unbelieveable on a regular basis. 8 year old girls clawing each other.... it's just... something I can't ever understand.

Anyways, you are completely right- the culture won't change unless some outside impetus gives it a reason to change. Whether that be nanotech, robotic labour (3 rules safe!), an obvious sign of ETLife, the extinction of oil, or fusion.... somethig has to catalize it. Maybe it's cynical of me, but I doubt that many people would be so willing to embrace change.

Re:Nah, I never said they all were- by An+Onerous+Coward · 2004-03-21 08:43 · Score: 1

I did read a book a short while back, that was sort of a diary of a young teacher's stint in an inner city grade school. It was a brutal experience for her, and she transferred to a boring middle-class district at the end of the year. Cynicism is a natural response to apparently insoluble problems.

I'm not sure how welfare fits into the mix. I've gotten the impression that the standard right-wing mantra is that if we end welfare, all those welfare recipients will automatically go out and get jobs. The standard left-wing response is that nobody would rather be on welfare than be employed. There's a grain of truth to both, and neither applies in all situations. I don't know if welfare is killing peoples' dreams, or keeping them alive, or both. But I don't like the idea of just yanking it out from under people without replacing it with something better.

Personally, I think any solution would have to start by fixing inner city school systems, then expanding adult education. Of course, this proposal is about as useful as Monty Python's "How to Become a Doctor" skit.

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You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

Endless question about alien life by CherniyVolk · 2004-03-21 08:19 · Score: 1

I'm using SETI just like many others are. I have it running on several machines and I average about 10 work units a day.

How, exactly are we supposed to identify intelligent construction or manipulation? That's basically what we are trying to identify right? A pattern, that doesn't fit a natural chaotic pattern, thus must have been controlled or manipulated for a particular purpose signifying intelligent intent. Am I wrong?

Now, here's the dilemma, if I recall correctly life on earth is heavily carbon based. Organic chemistry contributes this to carbons valency of 4 right? It's been years since I took chemistry, so I might be rusty. But other elements, possibly with a valency of 4, could very well be a basis for life, I think silicon is one of them.

Well, we can try to speculate the intelligence of some life form based off of a different element all we want, but let's veer from the psuedo science and go with something a little more documented or practical.

I find it difficult to believe, that we are the only star with a planet in the right position to sustain life AS WE KNOW IT. There are billions of stars in our galaxy, there are billions of galaxies in our spacial quadrant and there are... point is, there is A LOT of stuff out there, and we really have no clue how much.

How is it possible to identify patterns unknown? We speculate, or assume that intelligent life will use radio waves or some such. I argue this to be impossible and that we are looking for the wrong things. Radio waves may be a viable thing to look for, if looking for a civilization at approximately our level. But, since the dawn of man, there have been documented accounts of aliens or the like for thousands of years, yesterday, today, and there will eventually be more tomorrow. If an Alien space craft had travelled to earth, the closest star is Alpha Centauri right? That's something like 13 light years away? So advanced to travel that distance, reasonably, yet have communications so primative to have an approximate 13 year lag? No, I think such beings would be using a form of communications that is a little faster. So by looking for radio emissions, the most we are hoping for is to locate a civilization that was as advanced as ours is TODAY, ATLEAST 13 years ago (Assuming we find something interesting coming from Alpha Centauri right?). Then comes the question, if we find distinguishable patterns come from an object that's a 100 million light years away... boy that will make us feel undeveloped, stupid and rather pathetic wouldn't it? I mean, they are a ~100 million years ahead of us right? Who wants to be mentioned at the end of the race as the one who came in dead last? Announcing something like that, is like announcing, "NASA has just verified, that the human species is a 100 million years behind 'X' species located on ''."

What about the possibility, that life on other planets surpassed us a thousand years ago. But since they are several thousand light years away, we'll have no clue until they are banging on our front door. "Hi, how are ya? We noticed you are trying to look for us, we thought we'd speed things along..."

Also, and the most practical, I argue that if I took a circuit board and buried it in the dirt. Two thousand years from now, it will not be recognizable as a mark of intelligence. The patterns would just seem too coincedental, and if not look at in the right percpective it will totally be missed. Much like, in modern times the Nazca Lines in Peru. If you aren't at the right angle (very high up), you will not identify a pattern signifying intelligent intent.

SETI is fun, but I highly doubt we'll have any conclusive evidence derive from it. But, out of principle it needs funding. I think, SETI has already found evidence, we just don't know how to interpret it to identify it's presence in the data.

Re:Endless question about alien life by raind · 2004-03-21 09:33 · Score: 1

yes, what he said!

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Get up!

Its only by CrackedButter · 2004-03-21 08:39 · Score: 1

an effort to contact their OEMs.

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Jonathanjk.com

At least it's not Balmer! by payndz · 2004-03-21 08:53 · Score: 1

Can you imagine if the first broadcast the aliens got from Earth was monkey-boy dancing around yelling "Aliens, aliens, aliens!"? They'd be launching a fleet to blow up the Earth within a day!

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You must think in Russian.

sounds like... by ShadowRage · 2004-03-21 08:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

a big tax write off for allen.. of course, not everyone in the evil empire is necessarily evil....

but still... might be two things, he might be interested in that stuff, and it will give him a nice tax write off.

Though if I were as rich as these guys, I'd be donating money out whenever I could, regardless of tax, like Carnegie did, he donated a lot of money, and when he died.. he had his entire fortune donated and spread around.

Re:and meanwhile.... by rickbrodie · 2004-03-21 08:57 · Score: 1

With the Billions of Dollars spent since 2001, has the world become a safer place?

It depends on your definition of "the world". While it is certainly possible that America has become marginally safer from external terorrist attacks, the *rest* of the world has undoubtably become much, much more dangerous. This misguided crusade against foreign enemies has only served to increase resentment, destabilise countries and polarise world opinion.

How would you value the loss of privacy and restrictions in personal life as compared to the achieved level of felling a lot more secure?

It is good, and one of the main purposes, for a government to try to protect it's people from the dangers of the world. But, personally, I would be willing to risk the consequences of my government's actions, and instead have them try to tackle the problems which can lead to terrorism among other things. Restricting the freedoms of the people you are supposed to be serving does is not the best way to achieve this.

How much money would you want to spend on the war and when would you declare it over?

Instead of pumping money into the (certainly) immoral and (probably) illegal bullying and violence towards other, weaker countries, why not put the money into more progressive policies. Such as eradicating third world debt, subsidising cheap medicines, working towards an effective UN (this requires hard work and dedication, at least for the initiating country, it will get easier once a precedent has been set), trying to be a *neutral* and above all *invited* mediator between disputes. The US is the richest and most powerful country in the world, let's see it prove it wants a better world.

Who actually benefits from the spending spree on this war? Are YOU safer?

The ordinary people in any of the involved countries have not and will not benefit. It is those in power who started this process, and to find the ultimate reasons for it, one only needs to look for who will benefit the most from these actions. Though it is done in the name of The People, others stand to benefit more. This is probably one of those cases where it is hard to be *too* cynical and paranoid.

Paul Alien? by Serious+Simon · 2004-03-21 09:38 · Score: 1

Never heard of the guy.

"could be used better elsewhere"? by VanillaCoke420 · 2004-03-21 09:39 · Score: 1

Blah-blah... What's wrong with donating to science and technology? Someone donates money to SpaceShipOne and a SETI project and all of a sudden it's an uproar where people are mad about nothing, saying "the money could feed the hungry and give shelter for the homeless etc., and if you excuse me, I'm going out to buy a new Pentium 4". And all the space exploration is a waste, too, right? But who is complaining about the global annual military spending? Must be hundreds of billions of dollars, only so that we can beat the hell out of each other. THAT is a waste, of money, resources, time and human lives. If we could become intelligent enough to work together in peace, then we *could* feed the hungry and make sure noone has to be homeless and that everyone can get a proper education and clean water, etc. I fail to see how donating money to science is evil.

Re:If we only had real progressive taxation, we co by mikedaisey · 2004-03-21 10:45 · Score: 1

You know, there is a middle ground between the ridiculousness of Ayn Rand and the ridiculousness of total socialism.

Waste of Money by Master+of+Transhuman · 2004-03-21 10:49 · Score: 1

*They've* been "researching" human life for centuries.

And they're not extraterrestrial - they evolved here before we did and got nanotech before we did.

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Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!

Re:Waste of Money by medazinol · 2004-03-21 14:13 · Score: 1

I agree it s a waste of time and money. Anyone with an open mind and a little time to read into this "subject" will see *they* have been here for some time and the government knows about it. Problem is, the government can't do anything about it so they deny it and ridicule those who've seen them including their own and the military. Just in case you think otherwise, do the research then reply. Skeptics do their research by proclamation instead of scientific and forensic investigation.

Xaphodbrox and Xaphian by xixax · 2004-03-21 11:10 · Score: 1

Last I heard, the Xaphian Language Institute was up in tentacles because MS weren't planning to offer a localization of Windows that supports the parallel recursive spiral text layout (which is equivalent of our left-to-right screen layout, but developed from clay orbs that are read by feel using seven tentacles).

Xix.

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"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"

Re:If we only had real progressive taxation, we co by /dev/trash · 2004-03-21 11:37 · Score: 1

Please don't. What incentive do I have to work hard and become financially scure if, 70% of it's going to people who just sit around all day?

That's right, none.

What WOULD be enough for you? by uptownguy · 2004-03-21 12:54 · Score: 1

I'd be surprised if the total amount he's given away is more that $1B.

For someone with such a low user ID, you're pretty misinformed...

You should check out the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation website sometime. I'm posting a link to their annual report. With almost $25B in assets, it has paid over a billion dollars in grants each year.

Grants for things like erradicating polio, improving nutrition for children, developing a vaccine for malaria, giving tens of millions in college scholarships and more.

I'm sorry if this doesn't seem to be enough for you -- but Bill Gates has made a committment to give away a substantial share of his wealth and he isn't waiting until he is dead to do it. I'd wager he is giving away a larger chunk of his net worth than almost anyone who is posting in this article.

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I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.

Effect on his lifestyle... by Goonie · 2004-03-21 14:32 · Score: 1

While it's good that Bill is giving away a lot of money to worthy causes, the net effect to his material lifestyle of giving away 25 billion dollars (say 25% of his net worth) is essentially zero. If I gave away 25% of my net worth it would cause major changes to my lifestyle.

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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)

Re:and meanwhile.... by geekoid · 2004-03-21 14:32 · Score: 1

what have you given?

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The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:If we only had real progressive taxation, we co by geekoid · 2004-03-21 14:37 · Score: 1

"Read "Atlas Shrugged", . . ."

you're just mean.

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The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

It's all relative. by gnovos · 2004-03-21 15:37 · Score: 1

Sure it may take a thousand years to reach where you want to go, but if you are traveling at some signifigant fration of the speed of light, that thousand years may only take you, the traveler, a couple of months.

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"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"

obscene by beforewisdom · 2004-03-21 16:21 · Score: 1

What else would you call having 13.5 million dollars to spare when people in your own country are going without basic necessites, education, when many worthy political causes could use funding to be heard.......not to mention all of those suffering aborad. This guy never saw those commercials "for 70 cents a day you can keep this child alive". The fact that he can spend that kind of money of a pursuit like this says something about how out of touch with people he is.......or how childish/selfish. Why not donate some of the money to college funds for famlies where someone lost a job from microsoft outsourcing to India?

Frivilous by beforewisdom · 2004-03-21 16:38 · Score: 1

I suggest that Paul Allen should take a ride on a "meals on wheels" truck in any city of his choosing. Money can buy better recieved interstellar radio static, but it can't you a sense of perspective

+, a /. classic. by Thinkit4 · 2004-03-21 19:34 · Score: 1

Way to incoroporate all the elements of the future we dream about. But I'd be careful about throwing around "AI". You either have consciousness or not. See you in the future, ha!

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-I am an elective eunuch.

This is unfortunate by Maljin+Jolt · 2004-03-21 20:28 · Score: 1

Considering the fact we aliens do not use obsolete electromagnetic wave technology, it is a plain vaste of money for you earthlings.

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There you are, staring at me again.

Re:and meanwhile.... by tbone1 · 2004-03-21 23:36 · Score: 1

Look, I'm a product of the public schools. I was there in grade school, junior high, high school, undergrad, and graduate school. The problem with public schools isn't money. Anyone who spent five minutes talking to an education major or a school board member knows what the problem with public schools is.

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The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines

Re:and meanwhile.... by tbone1 · 2004-03-21 23:39 · Score: 1

And, through this organization, ensures that the economies of Columbia and Hawaii are running strong!

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The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines

Am I the only one... by s-meister · 2004-03-22 04:44 · Score: 1

...who read this and thought "John Hurt as Hadden in Contact". Who's playing the Ellie Arroway character?

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Microsoft's Paul Allen Funds ET Search

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