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iPod Mini Design Flaw?
terradyn writes "Over at iPodlounge they've discovered that the iPod mini's have a major issue with their headphone jacks. It looks like the jacks connection to the main system board is extremely poorly engineered and so normal use will wear it out and cause lots of static after around 35-40 days... If any pressure on your iPod Mini results in crackling and static, you should return your iPod immediately to an Apple store for a free replacement. They're also theorizing over in the forums that the iPod Mini shortage may be a cover for this problem..." Update: 04/12 01:08 GMT by T : billybob writes "Someone in the forum thread originally linked to has posted pictures of the iPod taken apart, demonstrating the problem."
When I was at the Apple store 2 weeks back getting a new iBook battery, I remember some guy came in having trouble with the headphones b/c of static. I am betting that was related.
I'm not surprised. Apple must not have done much testing of the mini before they started shipping it.
to punch that annoying jogger who wants to "jack in" and "check out my tunes!"
...for being cheap and uber-stylish. For $50 more you could have had a regular iPod with way more storage, but noooooo, you HAD to get an Apple MP3 player in something other than white!
The Ipod Mini freezes costantly. This was supposedly fixed in pre-production but my mini and many other's mini locks up several times a day.
This wouldn't happen if the headphone connection was digital, encrypted, with error correction, as it should be in DRM. Told you so.
Its all one grand unified ipod conspiracy if ya tell me...the shortage...the colours....u know its all related to the greys and the smoking man too! Better get my tin foil ipod cover out.
We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
Well, sounds like a case of dry solder joints to me, which means the solder used to connect parts to the motherboard has not been correctly applied and/or heated, leaving it weak. Could also be a simple socket retention issue.
The good news is that this is usually easily fixable, opening the device and re-heating the joints that connect the socket to the board, maybe also applying a little epoxy to reinforce the socket, as a little movement can agrivate the problem.
The bad news is that if the soldering is not up to spec, the entire device could suffer from long term unreliability, especially in a device that will see constant movement and vibration, such as this..
Possibly they have used a surface mount socket with only the solder connections to retain it, and it really needed some form of positive retention because the case is not strong enough to provide the rest - this would make it a little harder to fix by resoldering, but the theory is the same.
After all, it's not really a DIFFICULT problem in engineering, if this problem is happening a lot then someone has REALLY dropped the ball here.
The predicted cause for this is that everything inside the IPM case is connected to the case with flexible rubber-like stuff, *except* the headphone jack (which is connected rigidly- standard practice for headphone jacks but unfortunate here).
Repeated stress on the case, then, puts stress on the headphone jack and eventually it may lead to the audio problems expressed at iPodlounge.
This should be an extremely easy fix for future IPM revisions, and I'd imagine Apple will be taking care of their customers.
As a sidenote, I had an iBook's logic board fail out of warranty due to a manufacturing flaw and I called Apple on I heard that Apple the flaw- they sent me a box, postage prepaid, in which to send my iBook back, repaired it, and sent it back to me. No money out of my pocket. Very cool.
I can't think of a single portable music player that I have owned in the last 20 years that did not suffer from this problem. Indeed, it is the fear of such a problem that has kept me from buying any MP3 player.
Everything from an original Sony Walkman, to discount store AM/FM radios, to expensive Sony and Phillips CD players have suffered from this annoying loose headphone jack disease. Some may suffer earlier than others, but none have survived without a little home soldering work more than a year.
I was in the Apple Store at The Grove a few weeks ago and I tried out a mini and it sounded just terrible with so much static. I'm guessing that's what happened to it. Looks pretty bad on them to have a broken demo heheh.
I bought a 40gb two weeks ago.
No problems yet. I love it.
Best $500 that I should have put towards tuition I ever spent.
My impression is that the engineers at Apple that work on the iPod are rarely stopped on the street and mistaken for Steve Wozniak.
The battery-life meters on the 3rd-generation iPods are nothing short of random, and now this. For what they're charging for these things, why doesn't the battery indicator work as well as the one on my two-year-old $49 cell phone?
Thank God it is only a mini design flaw! I thought for a while that it might be some major flaw. Fortunately, that was not the case. I can sleep tonight.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
Massive design flaw found in Apple product, Slashdot prints neutral article. Any bets on the tone if Microsoft made the IPod?
Apple doesn't exactly have the same history of hardware mistakes as Microsoft has in browser/e-mail security issues. If this wasn't the first loosely-connected headphone port on an Apple product, then there'd be cause to be negative.
That, and by the time Slashdot has realized it, Apple is already offering to replace the defective units.
Well, all you uber-stylish yuppies wanted us to get rid of the lead, so we did. Now you get to deal with the cold-solder joint problems.
I don't know who is and who isn't aware of this rule of thumb, but working at a big Mac development house (no McDonald's jokes plz) taught me one thing. Never ever EVER (shake a baby) buy first revision Apple products. Since the beginning of time, I think Apple has looked at people who buy their newest line not as their first line of customers, but their last team of product testers.
.mac account, why can't you see it on your desktop!?!?")
Nearly every Apple product that I've seen come out in the past five years, I've known someone that has to return a Revision A product because Apple just dropped the ball on one thing or another. Don't get me wrong, their products are quite amazing and I'm envious of all my Apple fanatic friends that have everything, but if you're going to be on the bleeding edge and pre-order things before Apple's even done making them, of course you're going to see something wrong with the first batch. If you think otherwise, then why don't you try to release an idiot-proof product to people that want their mp3s automagically synced from their work desktop to their iPod to their car to their laptop to their servers to their friend's computers in the UK. ("it's on my
...but I ramble...
I think you'll find 4GB compact flash (card / slot type) hard disks (ie: not flash memory) are surprisingly expensive, plus there is probably quite a bit of precision engineering involved, at that scale everything had to fit together perfectly. Smaller things often cost more than bigger things.
For scale, the full iPod basically consists of exactly the same things as a mini, except with a notebook ?IDE? hard drive instead of the C.F. one, and everything else scaled up. Plus Apple do wan't to make a profit on them, I don't think the iPod range is a loss leader.
Although the precision engineering in the iPod mini doesn't seem to be up to scratch. Apple really need to get better quality control.
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
That and better reflexes. You're like 10th.
Didn't you see the other story? That 4GB CF drive, costs more than the Mini.
Also, how does an issue like this get addressed for international customers? I'm guessing Apple has the policy of free shipping, etc only for US-based customers.
Don't people even read the title of the article anymore? It's a mini design flaw.
The small part with the headphone jack attaches via screws to the aluminium case, but does not screw to the main board. Because of this any pressure on the case, dock connector, or simply plugging in and out headphones, creates tension between the small part and the main board. Since only the black connector sits between these two parts, it quickly wears out.
With regular use, contacts get loose and slightest pressure on iPod creates static sounds
Unfortunately this iPod Mini problem seems more severe. Due to the design too much stress is put on the connection and if you fixed it I'm sure it'd break again soon enough. Plus eventually something that you couldn't fix easily might break, either from the disassembling and re-assembling or from the stress at that point. Hopefully there is some way to take stress off that connection.
Oh, well, then, HELL! Why don't you just glue a 4 GB CompactFlash card to an LCD screen, toss a scrollwheel on, and beat Apple at the iPod game?
I tell you why. It's because you, sir, are a dumbass. Let me count the ways:
1. It's a 4GB miniature hard drive. Not a CF.
2. It also contains a microprocessor and related hardware which: talk to the hard drive over the ATA bus; parse the filesystem; keep track of the songs in a (relatively) intelligent and rational way; feed data to an MP3 decoder chip; manage to keep said MP3 decoder chip fed properly, i.e. not too much and not too little, but just enough, Goldilocks; interpret your input and figure out what it is that you want it to do; and talk to the aforementioned LCD screen. Not just "making the scroll wheel work", thank you.
3. The actual cost of the silicon I've described - not counting the hard drive - is relatively insignificant, it's true. Especially in the large quantities Apple are purchasing. So? Design, assembly, testing, etc. are not insignificant costs for such a device. I've been there; I know. At NO point have we discussed the software design, the UI design, or the industrial/mechanical design. These are also significant.
I challenge you - you, personally! - to develop a design of similar quality and capabilities for even as little as twice the cost, at twice the size and half the battery life. It's a pretty safe bet that you can't. When you figure in the cost of the hard drive (it's a Toshiba; look it up), there's no way you can come close. The only thing you've said that's even remotely correct is that it's barely worth $250. That's kinda cool, really. If it was worth more, it would cost more. I personally like it when stuff is worth what I paid for it.
Frankly, until you know something about designing a consumer device this complicated, your opinion about how good a job Apple did isn't worth squat. But who knows? Give Apple a call. Tell them you read on some website how bad a job they did, and tell 'em you can do it better. Be sure to have a tape recorder ready to preserve the sound of hysterical laughter.
Sheesh.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
I have this EXACT problem with my 1st generation iPod. There is a hard plastic collar around the jack, and after three months of pocket-related stress, the jack began to hiss and the left channel began to fade in and out. I KNOW Apple did not forsee this design flaw in the first gereation. I have not had the pleasure of usiong the second or third generations to compare. I simply mess with the plug until the music returns. Too bad there is not a Firewire headphone. That would be kick ass!
is it that bad seein a hot chick again? if i see a hot chick walkin down the hall i dont say "repost"
It sounds as though the jack socket is prone to dry joints where it solders to the board. Either that, or the contacts are losing their springiness after a few insertion cycles.
Dry joints can be repaired "while-U-wait" in any suitably-equipped workshop -- or at home, but it's fiddly and I'd be reluctant to open up such an expensive precision instrument {and anyway, 30-40 days is well within the 12 month statutory guarantee period}.
I'm guessing that the PCB would be double-side surface mounted, reflow soldering both sides. The long-term solution is going to require a PCB redesign and new solder paste masks -- either too much solder or too little solder can cause poor joints; and maybe they should spec a socket with a plastic lug on the underside passing through a hole in the board, which would give it a bit more stability. Using a traditional socket with through-hole pins would be even more secure, especially if dummy pins were added for mechanical support, but would require an additional operation to hand-solder it in place.
It's understandable that Apple is using delaying tactics, as it will probably require a long round of accelerated testing to determine exactly what the problem is and how best to fix it. {I used to work in the R&D department of a company which designed and made electronic control modules, by the way}.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
the $129 a year extortion fees
Hmm. My G4 is still running 10.2 just fine, and Steve Jobs didn't send Rocko and Moose to my house to "discuss" the matter.
The nifty thing is that it supports USB mass-storage profile. MP3/Ogg/Wma (yeah right) can be copied on AND OFF.
;) Just enable it to be used as a disk via iTunes, and viola. ;)
Works on the iPod Mini, too, as long as you don't use the apple software. [google for 'ephpod']
Whats more, being a standard compliant device it works fine with Linux. You can just mount it as a filesystem.
iPod Mini, too.
So, what are you going to say for yourselves? Don't just mod me down for telling the TRUTH! Meanwhile, I am typing this from my Mandrake 10 machine. Cheap, easy, open, the Linux way of life!
s/Linux/hooker/
My brother has a first generation iPod (not a mini) that has the same problem. It was out of warranty, so I attempeted to fix for him.
The only thing holding the surface mount jack onto the board was the solder connections, and it seemed to me that the solder was unusually soft. You could push it around pretty easily with a pair of sharp tweezers.
I can't say that I was impressed with the design and execution.
Better then the $500 I spent last month on booze?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Its a compact flash microdrive.. CF is the form factor afterall, not just the memory type. Theres CF-wifi cards afterall. People have been taking these things apart just for the micro drive anyways. If I got one of these I would probably do the same thing, without a decent headphone jack this thing thing is bloddy useless.
Moo!
Yes. You are right. I think a more accurate term would be "CF-sized". There are three things which define Compact Flash: physical size, electrical interface, and storage medium. It's noteworthy that the CF interface *IS* IDE, with a different connector. IBM (now Toshiba) has been making CF-sized Microdrives for years, and I will admit to having referred to them as being "CF hard drives." This is unfortunate.
I suppose it's possible that grandparent poster knew that it was a hard drive. My apologies if he did.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
How about the shoddy design of the cube that overheated and had power button problems? Or the iBooks with defective logic boards? Or the iPod battery problems? Also, I recall there being quite a few OS updates with disastrous bugs.
As with all products, no matter who makes them, you should probably buy a warranty if none is provided. Fortuantly, all Apple hardware products come with a one-year limited warranty against defects. So before you flame, remember that your product is probably in warranty, and that Apple would be more than happy to replace it because they desire your business.
...
I have a question. Is it possible to have just a flat surface magnet to magnet connection in lieu of these banana-type jacks? If so, that might be a better way to do these attachments. I just don't know if you can get the signal through, or if the magnetic field would distort it too much, or whatever. Ya, I know, maybe hard to make it stereo even if possible. Just wondering is all. I've seen these wimpy things go screwy before too on other gadgets.
there was a comment up a few that said to desolder the jack, put epoxy between the jack and the board, then resolder the jack. flux wouldn't hurt either, so long as you clean it off when done. wd40 would only work because it's a cleaning agent. have you tried cleaning the jack/plugs?
You spent $500 on booze? Man, $500 is more than I pay in a month for booze, pot, mushrooms, adderall, ritalin, ecstasy, ambien, ether, and nitrous--combined! I'd say you need to cut down on your drinking.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Apple needs to spend less money on 'designers' and more on 'engineers'. Disclaimer: I have a Powerbook and an iPod, this is tough love speaking here. Faz
Thats exactly what they were saying. However it could be that they have been having to replace so many that THAT is creating the shortage.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
Massive design flaw found in Apple product, Slashdot prints neutral article. Any bets on the tone if Microsoft made the IPod?
Will Microsoft replace my copy of Windows with one that works well? For Free?
That was a very common problem among the first generation iPod (5GB) . That model had contacts for remote surrounding the headphone jack and the plastic part separating the jack itself from the surrounding contacts very often broke. Go to Apple's discussion forums -> iPod -> Usage and search for "brokne jack" and see for yourself. Most of them, including mine, didn't stop at producing statics, but stopped producing any sound eventually.
I tried to repair it through Apple. Apple Europe refused to repair it for free, saying that the part does not break for itself even though my iPod was still covered by warranty.
I was bitten by faulty iBook (went to service three times and every time Apple refused to cover the cost by warranty. I don't even feel like contacting them for that iBook motherboard paying back program), too, and wonder why I still have faith in Apple, especially the European branch. (Apple Japan was prompt and helpful repairing my iBook when I was visiting Japan.) They have a huge issue in their QC. They should stop manufacturing their goods in Taiwan.
People like to liken Apple products to BMW or Mercedes, but maybe it's more like Ferrari. Expensive, looking cool, but requires a lot of maintenance...
Actually worth significantly more, since the 4GB hard drive costs $400+ on its own.
Update: 04/12 01:08 GMT by T: billybob writes "Someone in the forum thread originally linked to has posted pictures of the iPod taken apart, demonstrating the problem."
Update: 04/12 01:09 GMT by T_allardyce: The pictures are now down, demonstrating the slashdot problem.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
This sort of thing wouldnt happen if it was ogg based!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Pshaw - so much for Apple's superb engineering innovation!
Sony has for many years been the leader in crappy minijack technology. Just ask anyone who has used a microphone with one of their minidisc recorders!
Three Squirrels
I worked on satellites and the design mantra there was "solder is never a mechanical fastener". Any component with any mass had be to bolted, epoxied, or tied down. The exception was dip packages, but they have a high pin-to-mass ratio.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
My comment was also meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Notice how I suggested you cut back on drinking--after listing nine of the drugs that I've tried (which, contrary to what I implied, I don't do all of in any given month). Try my policy: If someone says something totally and blatantly unreasonable or silly, assume it's a joke. If it is, then you got the joke; if it isn't, the person isn't worth arguing with anyway. Notice that getting the joke doesn't necessarily imply that you laugh; it could be a bad joke, or one you can't relate to. In that case, it's usually best to ignore it and let the mods decide.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Do not follow the last link if you have a weak heart! It describes a brutal vivisection of an Ipod Mini, the man has no mercy at all! Furthermore, it links to pictures showing it's private parts, dismembered!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Apple paints the inside of clear plastic white to get the look of the iBook/iPod. You just need to remove it and then paint what you want.
apple makes great stuff, but their first-generation of just about everything they make has problems (and is usually really expensive) -- wait for the second revision and you'll have less headaches.
You're ignoring the hugely complicated process of refining the silicon. It's not like you can just glue sand together and slap it in a chip package.
ONE.
GUY.
If the math at play here is eluding you, then I suggest returning to kindergarten.
Oh, gee, thanks for that mature response. By the way, did you read the thread in the linked section of iPod Lounge? You know, the one that is full of iPod owners complaining of having the same problem? Give it a try reading the articles first.
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds