Slashdot Mirror
iPod Mini Design Flaw?
terradyn writes "Over at iPodlounge they've discovered that the iPod mini's have a major issue with their headphone jacks. It looks like the jacks connection to the main system board is extremely poorly engineered and so normal use will wear it out and cause lots of static after around 35-40 days... If any pressure on your iPod Mini results in crackling and static, you should return your iPod immediately to an Apple store for a free replacement. They're also theorizing over in the forums that the iPod Mini shortage may be a cover for this problem..." Update: 04/12 01:08 GMT by T : billybob writes "Someone in the forum thread originally linked to has posted pictures of the iPod taken apart, demonstrating the problem."
When I was at the Apple store 2 weeks back getting a new iBook battery, I remember some guy came in having trouble with the headphones b/c of static. I am betting that was related.
I'm not surprised. Apple must not have done much testing of the mini before they started shipping it.
to punch that annoying jogger who wants to "jack in" and "check out my tunes!"
...for being cheap and uber-stylish. For $50 more you could have had a regular iPod with way more storage, but noooooo, you HAD to get an Apple MP3 player in something other than white!
The Ipod Mini freezes costantly. This was supposedly fixed in pre-production but my mini and many other's mini locks up several times a day.
This wouldn't happen if the headphone connection was digital, encrypted, with error correction, as it should be in DRM. Told you so.
Its all one grand unified ipod conspiracy if ya tell me...the shortage...the colours....u know its all related to the greys and the smoking man too! Better get my tin foil ipod cover out.
We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
Well, sounds like a case of dry solder joints to me, which means the solder used to connect parts to the motherboard has not been correctly applied and/or heated, leaving it weak. Could also be a simple socket retention issue.
The good news is that this is usually easily fixable, opening the device and re-heating the joints that connect the socket to the board, maybe also applying a little epoxy to reinforce the socket, as a little movement can agrivate the problem.
The bad news is that if the soldering is not up to spec, the entire device could suffer from long term unreliability, especially in a device that will see constant movement and vibration, such as this..
Possibly they have used a surface mount socket with only the solder connections to retain it, and it really needed some form of positive retention because the case is not strong enough to provide the rest - this would make it a little harder to fix by resoldering, but the theory is the same.
After all, it's not really a DIFFICULT problem in engineering, if this problem is happening a lot then someone has REALLY dropped the ball here.
The predicted cause for this is that everything inside the IPM case is connected to the case with flexible rubber-like stuff, *except* the headphone jack (which is connected rigidly- standard practice for headphone jacks but unfortunate here).
Repeated stress on the case, then, puts stress on the headphone jack and eventually it may lead to the audio problems expressed at iPodlounge.
This should be an extremely easy fix for future IPM revisions, and I'd imagine Apple will be taking care of their customers.
As a sidenote, I had an iBook's logic board fail out of warranty due to a manufacturing flaw and I called Apple on I heard that Apple the flaw- they sent me a box, postage prepaid, in which to send my iBook back, repaired it, and sent it back to me. No money out of my pocket. Very cool.
I can't think of a single portable music player that I have owned in the last 20 years that did not suffer from this problem. Indeed, it is the fear of such a problem that has kept me from buying any MP3 player.
Everything from an original Sony Walkman, to discount store AM/FM radios, to expensive Sony and Phillips CD players have suffered from this annoying loose headphone jack disease. Some may suffer earlier than others, but none have survived without a little home soldering work more than a year.
I was in the Apple Store at The Grove a few weeks ago and I tried out a mini and it sounded just terrible with so much static. I'm guessing that's what happened to it. Looks pretty bad on them to have a broken demo heheh.
I bought a 40gb two weeks ago.
No problems yet. I love it.
Best $500 that I should have put towards tuition I ever spent.
My impression is that the engineers at Apple that work on the iPod are rarely stopped on the street and mistaken for Steve Wozniak.
The battery-life meters on the 3rd-generation iPods are nothing short of random, and now this. For what they're charging for these things, why doesn't the battery indicator work as well as the one on my two-year-old $49 cell phone?
Thank God it is only a mini design flaw! I thought for a while that it might be some major flaw. Fortunately, that was not the case. I can sleep tonight.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
Massive design flaw found in Apple product, Slashdot prints neutral article. Any bets on the tone if Microsoft made the IPod?
Apple doesn't exactly have the same history of hardware mistakes as Microsoft has in browser/e-mail security issues. If this wasn't the first loosely-connected headphone port on an Apple product, then there'd be cause to be negative.
That, and by the time Slashdot has realized it, Apple is already offering to replace the defective units.
Well, all you uber-stylish yuppies wanted us to get rid of the lead, so we did. Now you get to deal with the cold-solder joint problems.
"Any bets on the tone if Microsoft made the IPod?"
Microsoft defective iPods are just another stepping stone in their quest for world dominance for reasons we're still conjuring up!
"Derp de derp."
I don't know who is and who isn't aware of this rule of thumb, but working at a big Mac development house (no McDonald's jokes plz) taught me one thing. Never ever EVER (shake a baby) buy first revision Apple products. Since the beginning of time, I think Apple has looked at people who buy their newest line not as their first line of customers, but their last team of product testers.
.mac account, why can't you see it on your desktop!?!?")
Nearly every Apple product that I've seen come out in the past five years, I've known someone that has to return a Revision A product because Apple just dropped the ball on one thing or another. Don't get me wrong, their products are quite amazing and I'm envious of all my Apple fanatic friends that have everything, but if you're going to be on the bleeding edge and pre-order things before Apple's even done making them, of course you're going to see something wrong with the first batch. If you think otherwise, then why don't you try to release an idiot-proof product to people that want their mp3s automagically synced from their work desktop to their iPod to their car to their laptop to their servers to their friend's computers in the UK. ("it's on my
...but I ramble...
I think you'll find 4GB compact flash (card / slot type) hard disks (ie: not flash memory) are surprisingly expensive, plus there is probably quite a bit of precision engineering involved, at that scale everything had to fit together perfectly. Smaller things often cost more than bigger things.
For scale, the full iPod basically consists of exactly the same things as a mini, except with a notebook ?IDE? hard drive instead of the C.F. one, and everything else scaled up. Plus Apple do wan't to make a profit on them, I don't think the iPod range is a loss leader.
Although the precision engineering in the iPod mini doesn't seem to be up to scratch. Apple really need to get better quality control.
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
Dude - its a hardware problem, and a fairly simple one. Microsoft has earned (my) ire by turning out shitty code (i don't really care if its closed, as long as it runs) that are barely functional and byzantine, doesn't play well with others, etc... Well shit. the people fabbing the mini ipod messed up and put a poorly designed headphone jack in (or apples designers. i've had a lot of problems with apple audio jacks in the odler white ibooks and the newer imacs). I'm willing to bet that microsoft has, at one point or another, fucked over 90% of those that read slashdot. apple's maybe dicked over 20% or so. Gee, that seems pretty clear to me.
Don't worry - its just stigmata. Pass me a napkin and don't you dare tell my mother.
To this sentence:
If any pressure on your iPod Mini results in crackling and static, you should return your iPod immediately to an Apple store for a free replacement.
Were it not for this, I'd imagine things might be a lot less forgiving. Were you around when the ipodsdirtysecret "the ipod battery fails after one to three years and apple is antagonistic and pricey about replacing it" thing broke? That was not nearly so neutral.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
That and better reflexes. You're like 10th.
Didn't you see the other story? That 4GB CF drive, costs more than the Mini.
What did you expect to find inside the mini? A magic lamp? The 4GB microdrive sells for $400 by itself.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Also, how does an issue like this get addressed for international customers? I'm guessing Apple has the policy of free shipping, etc only for US-based customers.
I don't see this as an "easter egg"... it's just a plain bug in the design, failing after typical use.
;o)
Going from an Mini iPod to iMime might be a feature and not a bug, ergo: Easter Egg
Don't people even read the title of the article anymore? It's a mini design flaw.
The small part with the headphone jack attaches via screws to the aluminium case, but does not screw to the main board. Because of this any pressure on the case, dock connector, or simply plugging in and out headphones, creates tension between the small part and the main board. Since only the black connector sits between these two parts, it quickly wears out.
With regular use, contacts get loose and slightest pressure on iPod creates static sounds
Unfortunately this iPod Mini problem seems more severe. Due to the design too much stress is put on the connection and if you fixed it I'm sure it'd break again soon enough. Plus eventually something that you couldn't fix easily might break, either from the disassembling and re-assembling or from the stress at that point. Hopefully there is some way to take stress off that connection.
Oh, well, then, HELL! Why don't you just glue a 4 GB CompactFlash card to an LCD screen, toss a scrollwheel on, and beat Apple at the iPod game?
I tell you why. It's because you, sir, are a dumbass. Let me count the ways:
1. It's a 4GB miniature hard drive. Not a CF.
2. It also contains a microprocessor and related hardware which: talk to the hard drive over the ATA bus; parse the filesystem; keep track of the songs in a (relatively) intelligent and rational way; feed data to an MP3 decoder chip; manage to keep said MP3 decoder chip fed properly, i.e. not too much and not too little, but just enough, Goldilocks; interpret your input and figure out what it is that you want it to do; and talk to the aforementioned LCD screen. Not just "making the scroll wheel work", thank you.
3. The actual cost of the silicon I've described - not counting the hard drive - is relatively insignificant, it's true. Especially in the large quantities Apple are purchasing. So? Design, assembly, testing, etc. are not insignificant costs for such a device. I've been there; I know. At NO point have we discussed the software design, the UI design, or the industrial/mechanical design. These are also significant.
I challenge you - you, personally! - to develop a design of similar quality and capabilities for even as little as twice the cost, at twice the size and half the battery life. It's a pretty safe bet that you can't. When you figure in the cost of the hard drive (it's a Toshiba; look it up), there's no way you can come close. The only thing you've said that's even remotely correct is that it's barely worth $250. That's kinda cool, really. If it was worth more, it would cost more. I personally like it when stuff is worth what I paid for it.
Frankly, until you know something about designing a consumer device this complicated, your opinion about how good a job Apple did isn't worth squat. But who knows? Give Apple a call. Tell them you read on some website how bad a job they did, and tell 'em you can do it better. Be sure to have a tape recorder ready to preserve the sound of hysterical laughter.
Sheesh.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
I have this EXACT problem with my 1st generation iPod. There is a hard plastic collar around the jack, and after three months of pocket-related stress, the jack began to hiss and the left channel began to fade in and out. I KNOW Apple did not forsee this design flaw in the first gereation. I have not had the pleasure of usiong the second or third generations to compare. I simply mess with the plug until the music returns. Too bad there is not a Firewire headphone. That would be kick ass!
is it that bad seein a hot chick again? if i see a hot chick walkin down the hall i dont say "repost"
It sounds as though the jack socket is prone to dry joints where it solders to the board. Either that, or the contacts are losing their springiness after a few insertion cycles.
Dry joints can be repaired "while-U-wait" in any suitably-equipped workshop -- or at home, but it's fiddly and I'd be reluctant to open up such an expensive precision instrument {and anyway, 30-40 days is well within the 12 month statutory guarantee period}.
I'm guessing that the PCB would be double-side surface mounted, reflow soldering both sides. The long-term solution is going to require a PCB redesign and new solder paste masks -- either too much solder or too little solder can cause poor joints; and maybe they should spec a socket with a plastic lug on the underside passing through a hole in the board, which would give it a bit more stability. Using a traditional socket with through-hole pins would be even more secure, especially if dummy pins were added for mechanical support, but would require an additional operation to hand-solder it in place.
It's understandable that Apple is using delaying tactics, as it will probably require a long round of accelerated testing to determine exactly what the problem is and how best to fix it. {I used to work in the R&D department of a company which designed and made electronic control modules, by the way}.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
the $129 a year extortion fees
Hmm. My G4 is still running 10.2 just fine, and Steve Jobs didn't send Rocko and Moose to my house to "discuss" the matter.
Eh... you sure? And what exactly would be an inconspicuous area? ;^)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
The reasons for not using WD-40 are valid. Sure it works, but it might not work for long! If you want to try a spray try contact cleaner. You can get it at most places that sell electronic components. Sprays won't fix faulty connections though. Sometimes you need to open up the case and do some soldering...
The nifty thing is that it supports USB mass-storage profile. MP3/Ogg/Wma (yeah right) can be copied on AND OFF.
;) Just enable it to be used as a disk via iTunes, and viola. ;)
Works on the iPod Mini, too, as long as you don't use the apple software. [google for 'ephpod']
Whats more, being a standard compliant device it works fine with Linux. You can just mount it as a filesystem.
iPod Mini, too.
So, what are you going to say for yourselves? Don't just mod me down for telling the TRUTH! Meanwhile, I am typing this from my Mandrake 10 machine. Cheap, easy, open, the Linux way of life!
s/Linux/hooker/
Damn right. Then again, if Microsoft made them, they probably wouldn't take care of their customer's as well as apple seems to be doing.
Every windows user is a sadomasochist.
My brother has a first generation iPod (not a mini) that has the same problem. It was out of warranty, so I attempeted to fix for him.
The only thing holding the surface mount jack onto the board was the solder connections, and it seemed to me that the solder was unusually soft. You could push it around pretty easily with a pair of sharp tweezers.
I can't say that I was impressed with the design and execution.
Better then the $500 I spent last month on booze?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Its a compact flash microdrive.. CF is the form factor afterall, not just the memory type. Theres CF-wifi cards afterall. People have been taking these things apart just for the micro drive anyways. If I got one of these I would probably do the same thing, without a decent headphone jack this thing thing is bloddy useless.
Moo!
Yes. You are right. I think a more accurate term would be "CF-sized". There are three things which define Compact Flash: physical size, electrical interface, and storage medium. It's noteworthy that the CF interface *IS* IDE, with a different connector. IBM (now Toshiba) has been making CF-sized Microdrives for years, and I will admit to having referred to them as being "CF hard drives." This is unfortunate.
I suppose it's possible that grandparent poster knew that it was a hard drive. My apologies if he did.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
The same can be said for Microsoft. I dare you to come up with software better than theirs which cost less. And don't name me some Open Source software, 'cos that'll be comparing apples to oranges. You know how much money went into their UI design, testing AND MARKETING?
How about the shoddy design of the cube that overheated and had power button problems? Or the iBooks with defective logic boards? Or the iPod battery problems? Also, I recall there being quite a few OS updates with disastrous bugs.
As with all products, no matter who makes them, you should probably buy a warranty if none is provided. Fortuantly, all Apple hardware products come with a one-year limited warranty against defects. So before you flame, remember that your product is probably in warranty, and that Apple would be more than happy to replace it because they desire your business.
...
Well, OK, if you insist.
BeOS.
Worked better, cost less. Died out not due to inferior quality, but because of lack of vendor support caused primarily by Microsoft's illegal anti-competitive behavior. Be, Inc won the court decision, but it was all over at that point.
We could talk about Outlook Express, too, if you wanted - but I don't know of anything comparable. How much does OE cost? For the purposes of this discussion, I mean. Or IE? How would we compare the cost vs. quality of (say) Internet Explorer, Mozilla/Netscape, and Opera?
I agree, it's apples and oranges. I don't think you can compare the quality and price of software that an OS vendor bundles for free to anything intended as a standalone product.
However, I fail to see how any discussion of Microsoft is relevant to the topic at hand. I never said anything about MS. Neither did the poor confused gentleman I was replying to.
Was there a point to your comment?
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
Marketing. The same way that BMW makes products that:
(1) Catch fire - Their engineering design tollerances are sloppy (despite marketing saying otherwise). Such that their engines sometimes overheat - and occasionally catch fire (eg: the X5 launch fiasco that forced a recall).
(2) Have poor performance - the M3 is quite shitty value for the money when compared to non-BMW sport coupes. But it's the pizzaz that they've managed to do so well.
(3) Have poor ergonomics - the switch gear on BMWs has always been built of low-grade plastic - with poor layout and tactile feedback. Their new iDrive system also sucks, containing some classic examples of how not to design an intuitive UI. Not to mention their seriously bland interior and exterior styling.
The more "exclusive" the brand - the worse the product quality. For example, I wouldn't want a Ferrari as a daily driver because they spend half the time broken down in the shop.
But BMW has spun such a mix of "exclusive" and "obtainable" that they are the most profitable car company in the world. Expensive products that are dirt cheap to make = lots of profit.
It's the same thing with Apple. Their products have such a brilliant layer of shine on top that customers are distracted from the fact that their product's functionality could do with some serious improvement. For example, it would take Apple almost nothing to add OGG support to the iPod - and to ship their computers with a 2-button mouse. But their products are then so expensive because they need to fund expensive marketing campaigns.
Eg: "think different", "the ultimate driving machine" - ha! They really mean "think as we tell you" and "the ultimate marketing machine".
I don't know which headphones you use but i can hear my music much more clearly on my Phillips SBC-HS500 headphones (appx $15 at walmart i think) also the headphones that come with panasonic CD players (the ones with the translucent concentric circles in blue/grey/other) are clear as well, the problem is that people think that shitty sony earbuds represent portable audio well.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Does anyone know what process they use to colorize their cases?
I want to restore some old legacy comptuers ( like old 8 bitters ) and would love to know how they are *safely* doing this.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I have a question. Is it possible to have just a flat surface magnet to magnet connection in lieu of these banana-type jacks? If so, that might be a better way to do these attachments. I just don't know if you can get the signal through, or if the magnetic field would distort it too much, or whatever. Ya, I know, maybe hard to make it stereo even if possible. Just wondering is all. I've seen these wimpy things go screwy before too on other gadgets.
CompactFlash has a couple of access modes. ATA is just one of them. There are electrical connections to allow it to be accessed as "raw" memory too.
Oh, well, then, HELL! Why don't you just glue a 4 GB CompactFlash card to an LCD screen, toss a scrollwheel on, and beat Apple at the iPod game?
Pretty funny sir. Pretty funny indeed. I needed a good laugh.
there was a comment up a few that said to desolder the jack, put epoxy between the jack and the board, then resolder the jack. flux wouldn't hurt either, so long as you clean it off when done. wd40 would only work because it's a cleaning agent. have you tried cleaning the jack/plugs?
I was comparing it to the 15GB iPod, you fool. In mass production, of course it's much cheaper than $250 to produce. Go into a store and ask for a 4GB microdrive, they'll charge you $500. Go to the manufacturer directly and request 100,000 of them, they'll cut you a deal.
Domain name registration for $8.79 per year
879domains.co
You're in the wrong place. You used the words "industrial/mechanical design" to people who couldn't tell you the difference between rotational and injection molding.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
You spent $500 on booze? Man, $500 is more than I pay in a month for booze, pot, mushrooms, adderall, ritalin, ecstasy, ambien, ether, and nitrous--combined! I'd say you need to cut down on your drinking.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Its a mini adventure!
Apple needs to spend less money on 'designers' and more on 'engineers'. Disclaimer: I have a Powerbook and an iPod, this is tough love speaking here. Faz
I tell everyone 'wait until Service Pack 1' to buy an iPod mini. It's luck if you get all the details right first thing off.
It was a wise ass comment to pander to the college crowd that spends $500 on iPods when they have tuition due. Back in my college days we didn't have iPods so we spent our tuition money on booze.
Plus if you've ever thrown a party with an open bar you'll discover how easy it is to spend $500 on booze. Especially if you get top shelf stuff.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Thats exactly what they were saying. However it could be that they have been having to replace so many that THAT is creating the shortage.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
We need a (+1, Bitch-Slap) modifier.
Your point by point refutation was well done, well done indeed.
*applauds*
- Neil Wehneman
My legal education, in nifty podcast format
The Creative Nomad Jukebox Xtra's seem to have the same flaw. Perhaps the mobile hard drive MP3 technology has not been perfected yet?
Massive design flaw found in Apple product, Slashdot prints neutral article. Any bets on the tone if Microsoft made the IPod?
Will Microsoft replace my copy of Windows with one that works well? For Free?
That was a very common problem among the first generation iPod (5GB) . That model had contacts for remote surrounding the headphone jack and the plastic part separating the jack itself from the surrounding contacts very often broke. Go to Apple's discussion forums -> iPod -> Usage and search for "brokne jack" and see for yourself. Most of them, including mine, didn't stop at producing statics, but stopped producing any sound eventually.
I tried to repair it through Apple. Apple Europe refused to repair it for free, saying that the part does not break for itself even though my iPod was still covered by warranty.
I was bitten by faulty iBook (went to service three times and every time Apple refused to cover the cost by warranty. I don't even feel like contacting them for that iBook motherboard paying back program), too, and wonder why I still have faith in Apple, especially the European branch. (Apple Japan was prompt and helpful repairing my iBook when I was visiting Japan.) They have a huge issue in their QC. They should stop manufacturing their goods in Taiwan.
People like to liken Apple products to BMW or Mercedes, but maybe it's more like Ferrari. Expensive, looking cool, but requires a lot of maintenance...
Actually worth significantly more, since the 4GB hard drive costs $400+ on its own.
Update: 04/12 01:08 GMT by T: billybob writes "Someone in the forum thread originally linked to has posted pictures of the iPod taken apart, demonstrating the problem."
Update: 04/12 01:09 GMT by T_allardyce: The pictures are now down, demonstrating the slashdot problem.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
This sort of thing wouldnt happen if it was ogg based!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Pshaw - so much for Apple's superb engineering innovation!
Sony has for many years been the leader in crappy minijack technology. Just ask anyone who has used a microphone with one of their minidisc recorders!
Three Squirrels
that is why there are MP3 players that have larger dimensions and have 60 GB hard drives. 80 GB ones will be availible as soon as a larger drive is availible for use in the high-end laptops.
the Platter diamater of the iPod drive is 1.8 inches, and is more like the size of a PC-card hard drive.
I worked on satellites and the design mantra there was "solder is never a mechanical fastener". Any component with any mass had be to bolted, epoxied, or tied down. The exception was dip packages, but they have a high pin-to-mass ratio.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
spaced a minute on the magnet next to drives or storage media no-no. Mea culpa. Just wondering if the signal can get through with a connection that is just magnet to magnet or magnet to steel. I do notice though that in-the-case system speakers have been in use for years, albeit not all that close to the drives. But you got a point. Just trying to think of something that would work and not be prone to wimpiness or failure, and be easy to use. Maybe a bluetooth headphone rig might be better? I dunno. Semms sucky though that an expensive piece of hardware can be rendered useless by .0005 cents worth of bad solder and bad design. Got to be a better "plug" solution out there than minijacks, I never liked them. Anything smaller than an RCA jack I don't like. Man, I made me a real long extension once for some lightweight headphones I could wear to bed. The computer was way over yonder -> there, and no normal cord would work (well, this was a make it with what stuff I had kicking around project). I did it, but them wirez with minijack rigs are *teeny* to work with.
... they should do this and cut me a check? DEAL!
heh heh heh
tell ya whut, anyone from apple design reading this, you can have the idea, send me one new tower and a PB and the "new and improved" ipod with propietary but cool and trendy headphones, I'll even pay the shipping, and it's yours!
... or just not the normal "insert tiny thing here into tiny hole there and hope it stays in and works" deal. I was just wondering if any sort of flat, smooth plug could stick on to the side of the ipod. Magnets was the first thing that I thought of. No hole into the case, some sort of direct transfer, magnetic voodoo induction or whatever. I'm not an EE, so no idea if it's even possible, but like pointed out below, magnets maybe not a good idea near the storage device, but maybe if they are small enough it wouldn't matter. I don't know, that's why the ?, I just wonder if it's possible to do it at all.
for some odd reason, I feel compelled to add that there are 4 GB Compact Flash cards that are purely Flash memory, and that there is soon going to be an 8GB CF card out soon, (at a cost of $4000)
My comment was also meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Notice how I suggested you cut back on drinking--after listing nine of the drugs that I've tried (which, contrary to what I implied, I don't do all of in any given month). Try my policy: If someone says something totally and blatantly unreasonable or silly, assume it's a joke. If it is, then you got the joke; if it isn't, the person isn't worth arguing with anyway. Notice that getting the joke doesn't necessarily imply that you laugh; it could be a bad joke, or one you can't relate to. In that case, it's usually best to ignore it and let the mods decide.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Have you got a clue? Silicon is refined SAND!!! It's the earth's most common element!!! I'd say that in a USD 100 processor, the silicon costs USD 2.
Do not follow the last link if you have a weak heart! It describes a brutal vivisection of an Ipod Mini, the man has no mercy at all! Furthermore, it links to pictures showing it's private parts, dismembered!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Is that why some `sell' 5$ mini iPODs on eBay?
Or you could get a Creative Nomad Muvo^2 for $200 (okay, $205 shipped)
Creative made a product very similar to the ipod mini for less, which is actually worth more, since you can remove the cf microdrive inside and sell it (or use it).
This reminds me of a flaw in oldschool Sony walkmen. The headphone jacks used a bent wire contact, which was prone to bending, naturally, causing major problems once you had plugged headphones in a few dozen times.
The usual headphone jacks would use bent metal strips, for those who don't know. They would wear down, of course, but you still had a relatively large surface area for the contacts.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
apple makes great stuff, but their first-generation of just about everything they make has problems (and is usually really expensive) -- wait for the second revision and you'll have less headaches.
Well at least he still has the iPod ;)
± 29 dB
I worked for Fisher-Price, and as great a company as they were (pre-Mattel buyout) even they did this.
Product development and release cycles are so accelerated that companies don't have much choice - fully testing a product can take over a year once the final design and production process is set, but there's no way you can wait that long before releasing it. If you try, you'll inevitably be scooped by the competition.
This space available.
You're ignoring the hugely complicated process of refining the silicon. It's not like you can just glue sand together and slap it in a chip package.
the 1st gen ipod also had a big design flaw - the firewire port is fixed in place with some dabs of solder and once those joints had come loose (after two years use) all that was holding the firewire port to the motherboard were 6 thin pins soldered in place... so of course, they all snapped. thankfully, i manged to re-solder everything back in place (talk about a steep learning curve) and everything works. i'd have hated to buy a new ipod - i like my navigation wheel which actually rotates - it's easier to use when your ipod is in your pocket. of course, i'd have considered an iriver, but the ipod has the best navigation system bar none. that would have been a tough choice.
There is nothing wrong in any way, shape or form with her iPod mini. Just because this guy, this ONE GUY has an issue plugging headphones in (here's a hint: pull the headphones out by the pluy, not the line, goof) doesn't mean that there is a "critical flaw."
Slow news day, isn't it?
My Abit IC7 motherboard (and many, MANY others') had a northbridge heatsink clip fail due to bad soldering, which they used as a mechanical fastener. See the Abit forums for many examples with pictures:
http://forum.abit-usa.com/
In short, they used a U shaped clip (4 of them) and soldered the open ends into the motherboard. they then thought this would be a great way of holding high pressure heatsinks onto the northbridge chips.
Result - lots of people having one or more clips give way, thereby losing the heatsink from the northbridge, cooking it or destroying other components in the computer.
Suffice it to say that I used thermal epoxy with a passive heatsink on my board to overcome the problem. Other than the clip issues Abit boards have been very good, and I'm sure they've learnt their lesson for the next round of motherboards, but still, it created a lot of ill feeling towards them for the design in the first place.
Visceral Psyche Films
Friend had the same problem with his 20GB 2G. Tried to fix it but the pads broke off the board.
I've got a 3G, no problems with it yet...
Man, I fucken hate when electronics have badly attached jacks. That is the most common way that my stuff dies, and it's so easy to get it right: just mount the jack to the chassis instead of the PCB.
You might find my technique for fixing my own cheap player (w/ pictures) amusing.
I'll give it two weeks before some jackass runs around making a movie called
IPOD MINI'S UNREPLACEABLE
HEADPHONE JACK LASTS
ONLY 35-40 DAYS
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
Of the $500 dollars I spent at the Bunny Ranch last time I was in Vegas?
OK, about what I thought. It's possible but clunky. I thought that the magnet idea might work, and I am reminded that hard drives have motors that produce a magnetic field that doesn't seem to be much of a problem with the bits and bytes staying in the ssame place, so I know it's possible.
with that said...
Here's an idea. How about eliminating the entire straight in friction plug idea, and make "plugs" be a screw in? BNC (is this correct?) is sort of like that, your coax to your tv or whatever in a lot of cases screws on and is much more robust. Or a push in, twist, lock, like the bayonet styled flaslight lamps. Or even a normal phone jack styled arrangement, at least there is a spring lock that holds it in place. For static purposes normal plugs work because they aren't constantly jiggled around, for mobile devices I think a much better plug scheme is indicated. We already have the USB styled connectors, that seems suitable, and is in widespread use already. Just lose those stoopid minijacks entirely, too clunky and wimpy.
We have a combination tumble-table/autoclave at work that is affectionately referred to as "the shake-n-bake". This story is only giving me ideas . . .
My regular iPod cord wore through at the connector and I filled out the Apple Support form and the replacement showed up the next day. From the look of things this morning, I'll be looking for another replacement soon. Normally I don't buy extended warranties, but AppleCare for iPod is a must if you get a 40GB one. The iPod is not a disposable item like a Walkman or VCR now is.
This occured yesterday (April 12) and has continued. I contacted Applecare via the website and am waiting for an email saying they're sending me a return box. I purchased my mini the first day on sale in February. When this gets out.... it won't be a pretty thing. I suspect a analyst will ask about it on Wednesday. I wouldn't like to be near SJ at this moment in time. (Appleinsider reports that the revision of the G5 has run into cooling issues and IBM has not been able to get decent yields of the new chip). Oy.
He's also ignoring the rule that the cost of developing the first processor must be redistributed through the next million.
Am I the only one who is more interested in that guy's wife than the ipod mini stuff?
--
Are you a Chipotle Fan?
Yes they are, because the problem isn't the headphone jack.
I just ordered an Ipod Mini last week. BAHHHHHHHHH
$>man woman
$>Segmentation fault (core dumped)
I'm sure if you did, you could probably find enough buyers to make the operating pay for itself.
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Thanks, Saroth2. It had not occurred to me that people might interpret my use of the word 'silicon' to mean the actual raw materials involved in manufacturing integrated circuits. I, of course, referred to the subset of parts used in the manufacture of the Mini iPod which could all be described as semiconductor-based devices - things such as integrated circuit microprocessors, discrete transistors and diodes, audio amplifier ICs, etc.
Now, it's interesting to analyze your assertion that the Si in a $100 processor costs $2. At what point in the process are you describing the cost? At the raw materials collections stage (mining)? After the raw Si is refined and converted to amorphous Si? After the amorphous Si has been grown into a large crystal, suitable for cutting into wafers? The wafers of silicon, doped, polished, and ready to be processed? The bare dice, patterned and etched with the circuitry? Before or after testing? Packaging? Do we get to count things like the development cost of the chip design? The development cost of the fabrication process? The masks used in the photolithography, whereby the patterns are etched and implanted into the silicon? How big of a piece of silicon are we talking, here?
At some point in the chain of events between beach sand (not really) and packaged IC, the cost of the silicon goes from considerably less than $2 to considerably greater, in a reasonably large processor in a reasonably small (feature size) fabrication process.
In case I haven't made my point strongly enough:
Yes. I have a clue. I also have a master's in EE, including coursework in IC fabrication. This coursework included far more detail into the economics of IC fabrication than I was really interested in. I've designed IC's. I have some clue.
What I was saying, in the manner that I frankly expected Slashdot-type geeks to understand, is that the cost of the electronic components (excepting the CF-sized hard drive) inside of an iPod Mini is negligible compared to the costs of design, assembly, testing, etc. Marketing, too.
Of course, I also kinda thought all that was a bit obvious. Perhaps my area of cluelessness is my habit of assuming an unrealistically large level of cluefulness to those around me.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
You herd me, SpongeBath.
Your solution appears to be working, but I would guess that if you contact IBM with this problem they would fix the problem.
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But it is the case! It's the way the headphone-jack part of the case connects to the rest of the stuff inside. I think they said "mini" because the headphone jack isn't like the big ones on old-time stereos, not because it's a small design flaw. Anyhow, sleep well!