Slashdot Mirror


IBM Subpoenas Several Companies in SCO Case

bl8n8r writes "IBM subpoenas are flying. Morgan Keegan, EV1, Oracle, Royce, CAI, Center7, Novell, Canopy, S2, are all asked to reveal details on all documents concerning any communications with or any meetings involving Microsoft regarding Unix, Linux, SCO and/or Canopy." Groklaw notes that even more subpoenas are likely on the way.

253 comments

  1. IBM in action by ryanmfw · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Great! It's fun seeing IBM in action, but, why are they doing this?

    --
    Hurricane Ivan: A 17th century prison collapsed. All of the inmates escaped.
    1. Re:IBM in action by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 5, Informative
      Great! It's fun seeing IBM in action, but, why are they doing this?

      Because they're being sued by SCO and they're gathering evidence against them?

    2. Re:IBM in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      How long were you in the hospital after the head wound?

    3. Re:IBM in action by ryanmfw · · Score: 2, Funny

      True, but, they're asking several of the companies about communications with Microsoft about UNIX, Linux, and SCO. Now, that could be useful if the want to take on Microsoft. The other stuff makes sense though, except for Oracle, as said in the article.

      --
      Hurricane Ivan: A 17th century prison collapsed. All of the inmates escaped.
    4. Re:IBM in action by ryanmfw · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Did you read the article? Or who they subpoenaed? Or what they subpoenaed about? Did you do anything? Do you do anything? Anyway, they sued some odd companies in there, so *read* it first.

      --
      Hurricane Ivan: A 17th century prison collapsed. All of the inmates escaped.
    5. Re:IBM in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you do anything? Do you do anything?

      I rest my case.

    6. Re:IBM in action by macdaddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think they see SCO's case is about to dry up and blow away and they want to get as much out of this as they can before that happens (if they are unsuccessful at convincing the judge to not dismiss the case at SCO's request (which I believe is coming)). I believe IBM wants to keep this case going so they can get a judgement in their favor, not simply a dismissal but an actual judgement. I think they believe MS is involved and they're seeking evidence to support that belief. If they can prove that MS paid SCO to litigate Linux then IBM will have an extremely strong set of feet to stand on when they oppose dimissing the case. That's what I believe is happening.

    7. Re:IBM in action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's very simple - if Microsoft is trying to do in Linux from behind the scenes by leveraging their might they could well be running foul of the monopolies laws again ..... it's a very fine line - something that IBM has had to toe for years

    8. Re:IBM in action by jacquesm · · Score: 1

      let's hope so.

      One thing is sure though, the fud won't end with SCO's demise

    9. Re:IBM in action by SSJ_Ramon · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that IBM has a counter-suit. SCO cannot just make that go away by crying 'UNCLE!' to the court. IBM is getting its shots in regardless of how the original suit against it proceeds.

      Darl and Co. really grabbed a tiger by the tail by picking this fight.

      --

      This .sig is void where prohibited, no purchase necessary.
    10. Re:IBM in action by macdaddy · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot about the counter-suit. There are so many lawsuits going on I keep forgetting who's sueing who. LOL. Yeah, they could do what they need in their own lawsuit if needed. Then again maybe the current judge is more likely to grant the subpoenas than the judge presiding over their other case. It could be something else along those lines. Suit #1 cold prove IBM right and leave the door open for Suit #2 to break the company. Woo hoo!

  2. I like the s2 subpoena by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    S2 won't give out documentation regarding microsoft as it is covered under a confidentiality agreement

    with SCO

    S2 doesn't even have to say what it is for THAT to be very telling.

    1. Re:I like the s2 subpoena by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont think it says anything at all except that they are reacting in a very normal way to being subpoenad and want to make sure everything is legal and they are protected so they ask for a protective order to cover their asses in case one of the parties says they violated a confidentiality clause

      Reading anything more into it is just paranoia I think. Wait until it all comes out in court

    2. Re:I like the s2 subpoena by leerpm · · Score: 3, Informative

      IANAL, but I think court sanctioned subpoenas pretty much overrule any sort of confidentiality agreement/contract. Of course, the information will not be made public and will be sealed by the court, but IBM's lawyers will still get to see it.

    3. Re:I like the s2 subpoena by macdaddy · · Score: 4, Informative

      An NDA doesn't mean jack when staring down the barrels of a subpoena. They'll be in contempt if they don't comply.

    4. Re:I like the s2 subpoena by sphealey · · Score: 3, Interesting
      IANAL, but I think court sanctioned subpoenas pretty much overrule any sort of confidentiality agreement/contract.
      I think (NAL) that the subpoena-ee can file a motion to have the subponea amended or quashed if it is not material to the lawsuit or too intrusive to the subpoena-ee's business. The court may or may not grant that motion.

      sPh

    5. Re:I like the s2 subpoena by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're exactly right, but it needs to go through the right process. A subpoena can be rejected by S2 due to the confidentiality agreements, and quite fairly so. So S2 ask the court for a protective order, which then basically absolves them of negligence in breaking a confidentiality agreement. They've asked for that protective order and from what's been said on groklaw that's just a matter of a little bureaucracy.

      court: "S2, give us these documents"
      S2: "but they're covered by a confidentiality agreement. we'll get our asses sued. give us a protective order and it's OK"
      court: "ok we'll get one"

      normal process, basically.

    6. Re:I like the s2 subpoena by subtropolis · · Score: 1

      I think the grandparent was just saying that the subpoena is a nice "fuck you" for S2 in particular.

      --
      "Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
  3. Go Blue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You're my boy Blue!!!

    1. Re:Go Blue! by ItMustBeEsoteric · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      It's fun to watch them blow their horn...on SCO :)

    2. Re:Go Blue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blue! How come there's no ice in my lemonade?

    3. Re:Go Blue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's better than my blue boys...ouch

    4. Re:Go Blue! by cdrudge · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah...but Blue ultimately died in the middle of a KY wrestling match. Do you really want to see Darl McBride and Chris Sontag in a wrestling match with IBM and watch IBM keel over?

    5. Re:Go Blue! by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 5, Funny
      Boy Blue; you just reminded me of an off-topic joke, and I've got karma to burn.

      Knock-knock

      Who's There?

      Little Boy Blue

      Little Boy Blue Who?

      Michael Jackson

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    6. Re:Go Blue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Have you heard the new Michael Jackson cover of an Elton John song?

      "Don't Let Your Son Go Down On Me"

    7. Re:Go Blue! by Deraj+DeZine · · Score: 1

      Drop and gimme 10! NOW!!

      --
      True story.
    8. Re:Go Blue! by TheUglyAmerican · · Score: 1
      Ok, you started it.

      What do MJ and [insert your favorite fast food burger place] have in common?

      Forty year old meat between ten year old buns.

      --
      "Written on the pages is the answer to the never ending story..."
  4. What is the purpose? by Pranjal · · Score: 0, Redundant

    exactly what is IBM trying to accomplish by sending subpoenas to all these companies. How will this help their case against SCO?

    1. Re:What is the purpose? by dmaxwell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      SCO is basically a puppet for interests that can't be seen as directly attacking the Linux business. Smashing SCO would not be a significant discouragement to those interests. They'll just find another sock puppet. IBM is just following the money. Dumb bulls charge the cape (SCO). Smart bulls go immediately for the matador.

    2. Re:What is the purpose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here's my plan. Have IBM "indemnify their customers." Do so in the following manner:

      1) Litigate SCO down to approximately $.07/share.

      2) Buy them out in the most vicious, humiliating way possible. Condemn their corporate headquarters, and let the Salt Lake and Provo LUGs wield the sledgehammers and wrecking balls.

      3) Play nice with Novell, offering them a reasonable amount to release the entire SysV codebase into the public domain.

      That attack vector against Linux is now dead as a doornail. The Open Source steamroller can move forward, and IBMs customers can feel safer about adopting Linux. Everybody wins.

    3. Re:What is the purpose? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever seen a bullfight?
      It's not like the bull has any chance.

      It's a game in which the bull dies, and sometimes the "right" thing happens and the bull gets to hospitalize someone(maybe even kill), before it gets killed.

      either way, the bull dies.

      One huray for the dying bull!

  5. IBM must be hunting for something more... by dev_alac · · Score: 5, Interesting

    With all these subpoenas, IBM may just be hunting for more than just evidence that SCO is completely wrong in their claims... Might even be that they're looking to get some dirt on Microsoft or bring down a few other companies with SCO.

    1. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by JoeBaldwin · · Score: 2, Funny

      And why the hell not!

      Kill two birds with one stone.

      Weak birds. And a fucking big stone.

    2. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by netsharc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, McBride (McBird? :) had a fucking weak case, but what's the case against MS? Evidence for Anti-trust suit no. 2? IBM better hope first that the Democrats win in November if they want to make that kick on MS's butt hurt.

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
    3. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, clearly the Ashcroft DOJ sold out on the Microsoft anti-trust trial, but that was government vs. big business, and you pretty much always expect the Republicans to come down on the business side of that argument. If IBM files its own case against Microsoft, that will be one big business vs. another -- I'm not sure either Republican or Democratic ideology enters into that one.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    4. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by number11 · · Score: 4, Informative

      what's the case against MS?

      So far, that Baystar, one of the major sources of financing for SCO, did so at the behest of Microsoft. (The other major source of funding is a Canadian bank acting for unnamed private parties.) And that, Mike Anderer, the consultant who is "S2" wrote a subsequently leaked memo discussing how SCO was obtaining >$80M in funding (mostly indirectly) from MS.

    5. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Interesting
      With all these subpoenas, IBM may just be hunting for more than just evidence that SCO is completely wrong in their claims... Might even be that they're looking to get some dirt on Microsoft or bring down a few other companies with SCO.
      Any such hunting expedition can and will be quashed by any judge and lawyer who is even minimally competent. Unless IBM names Microsoft as a party to the suit, then there is no legal standing for them to ask for a subpoena that 'digs up dirt' on Microsoft unless it can be shown as being relevant to the suit between IBM and SCO.
    6. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 1

      If they convince the judge that MS may be directing SCO's frivolous suits (by lining up investors, buying unneeded licenses etc etc) against its competitors, then IBM's hunting expedition is with merit.

    7. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by RickHunter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not only that it was obtaining the funding, but that Microsoft had asked SCO to slander Linux to attempt to slow down its domination of the operating system market. Something that's not just blatant anti-trust violation, but very probably illegal in any number of ways.

      Not that it'll get persecuted while King Bush's on the Oval Throne, but one can never tell...

    8. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      If they convince the judge that MS may be directing SCO's frivolous suits (by lining up investors, buying unneeded licenses etc etc) against its competitors, then IBM's hunting expedition is with merit.
      Sorry, but such actions by Microsoft do nothing to add to or remove from the merits (or lack thereof) of SCO's suit. If IBM is, as you suggest, seeking FUD to use in their defense, that then is tacit admission that there is merit to SCO's case.
    9. Re:IBM must be hunting for something more... by sribe · · Score: 1

      Any such hunting expedition can and will be quashed by any judge and lawyer who is even minimally competent. Unless IBM names Microsoft as a party to the suit, then there is no legal standing for them to ask for a subpoena that 'digs up dirt' on Microsoft unless it can be shown as being relevant to the suit between IBM and SCO.

      Ahhh, your legal thinking is sound, but I believe you're underestimating IBM. First look at the converse of your argument: if these parties have information that is relevant to SCO vs IBM, the fact that such information also provides grounds for a lawsuit against Microsoft (if indeed that is the case) in no way blocks IBM from getting at that information. Now consider that any evidence that suggests a motive for the current lawsuit other than SCO's weak (so far) claims, and particularly evidence that suggests a motive which by itself would not be grounds for a lawsuit, is relevant to the case.

  6. IBM & lawyers by 56ker · · Score: 1

    One wonders when the high-tech companies will concentrate on the high-tech rather than the legal side.... mind you there was the whole Sun vs Microsoft case which Sun won over Java - perhaps IBM are hoping for similarly high damages...

    1. Re:IBM & lawyers by fanatic · · Score: 4, Insightful
      One wonders when the high-tech companies will concentrate on the high-tech rather than the legal side

      IBM is the defendant, remember?

      Once IBM demonstrates how you get screwed by suing them for crap, maybe some of this stuff will settle down.

      --
      "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
    2. Re:IBM & lawyers by MikeJ9919 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The thing is, last time I checked, IBM had never stopped development of new software and products. They have never stopped creating and selling innovative technology. A legal department is necessary for any large business. However, it only beceomes a problem when you are spending a disproportionate amount of employee time and revenue on legal proceedings. Anyone who has been following the SCO case knows that, based on the amount of information they've put out regarding their products vs. the amount they've put out regarding their legal case, they're clearly in the latter category. Same goes for their public financial filings. These elements clearly point to a company in its death throes wanting desperately to get bought out. Nothing about IBM's behavior indicates that they are in similar straits.

    3. Re:IBM & lawyers by faraway · · Score: 1

      IBM isn't all in the clear either though, I was under the impression they stepped all over Phoenix (was it someone else?) legally wise when Phoenix reverse engineered the IBM PC BIOS to escape IBMs control over the PC market.

  7. In Other Words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    All your documents are belong to us...

    1. Re:In Other Words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All your documents are belong to us...

      ...after we serve you with a beowulf of supoenas.

    2. Re:In Other Words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That's the lamest joke ever ... takes no mental effort at all.

      And exactly how much mental effort does it take to piss and moan?

    3. Re:In Other Words... by gravyfaucet · · Score: 0

      or...everything you've ever said can be used against you.

      --
      Yes! Evil rules! Good can suck it! Suck it, good!
    4. Re:In Other Words... by Deraj+DeZine · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia, dead horse beats YOU!

      --
      True story.
    5. Re:In Other Words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That's the lamest joke ever ... takes no mental effort at all. A brainless ape could write that joke.

      So you want to be inflammatory, fine by me. If you don't think it was funny, that's cool by me. Next time why not try a little constructive criticism instead of pissing and moaning.

      I know the "all your bases.." joke has been beaten like a dead horse, but I used it as a double entendre. If you weren't so intellectually stunted you would have noticed the double meaning in my statement.

      Now I will explain the other meaning. IBM has the legal resources and might to supoena documents from multiple companies for any length of time of their choosing. This in turn could have an impact on the legal firms defending such companies from IBM. The impact would be that it could simply overwhelm legal teams to the point that they couldn't properly defend a company in a civil suit. This type of tactic is similar to the tactic where law firms dump numerous documents (into the millions) on another law firm just to overwhelm the legal staff by forcing them to sort through all the documents just to determine its legal relevancy. The difference in this case is that it's a reverse situation, thereby forcing companies to spend time producing numers documents.

      If you still don't get the joke, then there's nothing else I can say that would help. I still think it's rather humorous that copies of all those documents will now belong to IBM.
  8. serves sco right. by bethane · · Score: 0, Redundant

    IBM are gods of being litigous bastards, legandary in fact. When SCO decided to fuck with IBM it was game over, and now their lawyers are digging up piles of documents to ram up their arse. WOO!!

    --


    Bethanie: Whore...
    Fan Whore
  9. Some Insight? by mfh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the comments on Groklaw asks, "Why not Baystar, RBC and Microsoft?".

    I think it's likely because these are corporations that would probably resist assisting IBM, and the IBM legal team could still be working out methods for compelling each of these corporations into full testimony. RBC would likely resist, and as a Canadian Bank they can tie up the whole process for as long as they want, unless compelled by a Canadian federal court. Plus, RBC is the most profitable bank in Canada, so they have billions in pocket change to throw at the fight, need be.

    BayStar confirmed that Microsoft was connected to SCO, but maybe they have some kind of legal reason not to help? Or maybe the public facts are enough?

    Trying to get documents from Microsoft in connection to SCO would likely be a huge legal undertaking, so that might be what's slowing things down. IANAL, but if Microsoft, BayStar and RBC joined the fray, wouldn't they have the power to somehow stop the whole process, or slow it dramatically as a joint force? You have to be extremely delicate when handling companies with track records like Microsoft. Maybe IBM's legal team is getting as much data as they can from corporations who won't put up much of a fight, before Microsoft comes in and shuts everything down.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Some Insight? by MoFoQ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Baystar is pulling out....it may have been due to "secret" talks with IBM's or even rumors from IBM to Baystar that they can get into hot water with IBM's army of lawyers. And it was in IBM's best interest for Baystar, a MAJOR public (aka non-secret) investor to pull out; think PR. If a major investor doesn't have faith in you, you're screwed.

      I wonder what dirt will be found...and if there's dirt for the EU and the states that settled with Microsoft in their respective anti-trust suits to make their moves.

    2. Re:Some Insight? by WebTurtle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Baystar isn't going to help IBM because Baystar wants a return on their investment in SCO. I.e., SCO must win the lawsuits in order for Baystar to profit; therefore, Baystar isn't going to help IBM.

      IBM might have targetted some of the listed companies because they are willing to help IBM, and some of the companies because they are not going to put up much resistence.

      I hope IBM kicks ass and takes names.

      --
      ------- "One of the joys of travel is visiting new towns and meeting new people." -- G. KHAN
    3. Re:Some Insight? by Klanglor · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am not sure RBC will plundge Billions of dollar in legal fight against IBM to protect a 30million dollars in investment.

      My felling of RBC investment in SCO is to ballance its portfolio. I am almost sure that RBC have undisclosed high profiled HPC/Linux Company investment aswell.

      There is a reason why RBC is the richess Bank in Canada, they are managed by backstabing financial foxes (in a more politicaly correct way to say it: Diversification Specialist)

      Just for your information, usulay in a balanced portfolio investment, you always WIN the Wining Return less the loosing investment. For example, if SCO wins RBC 30Million will be Woth say 130Million Less the 30Million they invested in the Linux Companies (as a bonnus, they control portions of the company which holds the IP, which they can leverage on keener treatment for theire Linux Company). On the Other hand if SCO looses, RBC's investement in Linux Company will be worth say 30Million will total a 130Millions less the 30Millions invested in SCO. So No mater how wins RBC makes Money (100Million is a suggested figure).

      All in All, the point is that RBC will not waste billions of dollars to fight IBM because they win anyway. and perhaps, maybe they have stake in Novel. Corel was a canadian company which spined off its Corel Linux to annother small company which was bought by Ximen, which was bought by Novel (if i recall, but i may be wrong.) For sure i know RBC has stakes in Nortel Networks and i am prety sure that Nortel is working behind the sceen on a NIO with Linux.

    4. Re:Some Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Maybe they're not going after Microsoft because IBM is the largest reseller of Microsoft software and the single largest customer of Microsoft licenses.

      Why do you think Microsoft went through BayStar and the like? While they hate each other with passion, they are bed fellows.

    5. Re:Some Insight? by zangdesign · · Score: 1

      Why not Baystar, RBC and Microsoft?"

      Perhaps because IBM hasn't gotten that far yet. It's a huge distance from "saying that they're connected to SCO" to "proving they're connected to SCO".

      I think SCO is about to find out just what is really inside a can of whoop-ass. Along with a lot of other people.

      --
      To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
    6. Re:Some Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont get it. Why do you assume BayStar seeks to make money out of SCO?

    7. Re:Some Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because. This is a lawsuit between IBM and SCO based on IP issues and contractual issues. A judge will not allow IBM to abuse the courts and turn this into a crusade against MS or others not directly involved in IP issues with SCO. IBM can use the courts to shake the trees for documentation that may lead to further lawsuits on other issues with other parties to a degree, since SCO raised the contract issue IBM may persue that issue, and show that SCO may have been involved with a wider effort to interfere with IBM's Linux business, but only issues germane to IBM's dealings with SCO would be allowed by any decent judge. If such documentation did show a pattern of further interference by others, such as M$, that is an issue for another court, another judge, on another day.

    8. Re:Some Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make some very interesting points but our brains automatically discount your valid points of view when faced with bad spelling.

      I find your post intriguing as the ideas presented are quite advanced but I had such a hard time reading it when faced with:

      plundge, felling, ballance, richess, backstabing, politicaly, usulay, loosing, Woth, bonnus, investement, mater, spined, prety, sceen.

    9. Re:Some Insight? by adler187 · · Score: 1

      Corel sold it's Linux division to Xandros not Ximian.

    10. Re:Some Insight? by thogard · · Score: 1

      If they manage to get documents from the compaines, they can then go to Baystar or Microsoft and ask for anything related to this document... and give them one. It make the evidence look much cleaner if your not just fishing with a dragnet and remember IBM isn't fighting this for the PR, they are fighting it to win. Taking another company to court and completely destroying them is tricky when your still being watched for anti-competitive practices so there will be hundreds of govt people in may countries looking at the result of this so everything they precent in court must be rock solid. It also means that IBM has no choice but to completely destroy SCO in court.

    11. Re:Some Insight? by DrHex · · Score: 1

      Corel created the Corel Linux distribution.

      Microsoft invests.

      Corel dumps Linux distribution to Xandros.

      Microsoft feeds SCO $85 million to finance their lawsuit efforts against IBM.

      Novell tells SCO they can't sue IBM cause Novell own the IP.

      SCO files suit against numerous other Linux distributions, ie. RedHat.

      Novell purchases Suse Linux

      Movell purchases Ximian (Gnome Deskop, MONO development platform)

      IBM inks $50 Million deal with Novell to put Suse Linux on their machines.

      Now IBM's lining up their ducks with subpeonas.

      Anyone notice an unhealhty pattern for Microsoft here?

      --
      Scientia et Potentia
    12. Re:Some Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baystar already has its return on investment for the SCO cash, and will continue to reap that reward.

      More importantly, Baystar withdrawing its loan and shutting down SCO's thrashing would be in Microsoft's best interests. The anti-Linux FUD factor has peaked and for Microsoft's purposes, it is better that there be no legal resolution of IP in Linux issues in the forseeable future.

      If MS/Baystar etc can quieten down the fuss, settle what they have to settle out of court, and slink away ready for the next round, that's what they'll do.

      A bullet that's been fired is a spent round. A bullet in the chamber can threaten indefinitely.

    13. Re:Some Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got to know.. How old are you?

  10. this is why by Kamic · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/biztech/04/23/sco.inv estment.ap/index.html

  11. Finally by Daishiman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long has it been since we have seen any progress in this case? Finally IBM has stood up and started getting real evidence.

    Normally I have no favoritisms towards corporations, but let's hope IBM crushes SCO once and for all with this move.

  12. Let us not forget that IBM.... by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    invented litigating you out of business. SCO kicked up enough dust to raise their stock price temporarily but several events have signalled that SCO is headed fast to their inevitable end.....

    1. Plunging stock price
    2. The Baystar admissions

    If you are thinking of buying SCO stock, do it to short it. It only goes down from here. See ya in hell Darl.

    1. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by MyHair · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are thinking of buying SCO stock, do it to short it.

      I wouldn't even do that. The stock is way too volatile. The Baystar interviews were apparetly viewed as positive by investors because the stock jumped back up 20% again. We think SCO is dead, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to get the stock back up to $20 this year. I think it will be near zero within 5 years, but it's going to be a rough ride along the way. I wouldn't want an $8 or $10 short to be flying upwards of $20.

      Pay attention: most geeks think SCO is a stock scam. Well, even if it is, they are good at it! How did the price go up over $8 after threats of pulling all their cash? I wish my company could handle that kind of bad news so well.

    2. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by bhima · · Score: 2, Informative

      good luck finding stock to short!

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    3. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by Monkelectric · · Score: 1
      Well, even if it is, they are good at it! How did the price go up over $8 after threats of pulling all their cash? I wish my company could handle that kind of bad news so well.

      One word, Sheeple. You'll note that SCO is down 40 cents from thursday (today being sat). I expect things to keep "trending downwards" on Monday :)

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    4. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Because what Baystar wants is Darl gone, the speculators who are betting on the stock at this point think that that would be a positive change for the company. Baystar sees the writing on the wall and wants to begin conserving cash for a long fight.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    5. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by The+Analog+Kid · · Score: 1

      Yeah it's too late to short it, you should have shorted when it was around $20, now back when SCO first filed the lawsuit you should have bought as much stock as you could from SCO, waited 3-4 months then sold, millions could have been made there. Not like anyone knew that would happen, but if I had a time machine, SCO in March 2003 is where my money would be and then Red Hat when they filed their suit against SCO.

      Hopefully Novell's stock doesn't get shaken up over this, as I see they are one of the named companies and I'm an investor, not a huge one, but I wouldn't like it to drop much anyway. I'm waiting for it to go over $20 - 25 before I sell, so I make about 100% more when all is said and done.

    6. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I won't be happy until auction day and SCO's office furniture and old servers and water coolers are up for grabs to the biggest bidder. Who wants Darl's old office chair?

    7. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by rootmonkey · · Score: 1

      Although volitile stocks are the kind to buy options on. Certain option strategies have you go long (calls) and short (puts) at the same time and as long as it swings enough either direction you can profit.

      --

      Yes but every time I try to see it your way, I get a headache.
    8. Re:Let us not forget that IBM.... by Ironica · · Score: 1

      Pay attention: most geeks think SCO is a stock scam. Well, even if it is, they are good at it! How did the price go up over $8 after threats of pulling all their cash?

      Probably because Baystar clarified that it's not so much that they want their money back; it's that they want SCO to stop toying around with Unix products and become a full-time litigation company, since their IP is their only saleable asset as far as Baystar is concerned.

      Sure, they've demanded their money back. But they're not going to push it if SCO just starts running the business the way Baystar wants them to.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
  13. Go IBM! by MrRTFM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    SCO has had this coming for a long time, but its sad that the 2 thing I hate (Laywers and Patents) are going to bring them down.

    This is kind of like seeing the school bully being hit by a bus - you are internally elated, but its not a pretty sight and you feel pretty sick afterwards.
    Oh, well - as long SCO gets taken out, that's all that matters

    --
    You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
    1. Re:Go IBM! by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      but its not a pretty sight and you feel pretty sick afterwards.

      It's hard not to gag cleaning the guts off the front of your bus.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Go IBM! by kahei · · Score: 4, Insightful


      You young /. whippersnappers may be too young to remember when IBM controlled all of American computing and Microsoft were the courageous (but often mocked) young rebels, but believe me, a return to an IBM-dominated world is _not_ what you want.

      --
      Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
    3. Re:Go IBM! by man_ls · · Score: 1

      Probably true, but IBM sure has the "good company" image going on right now.

    4. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      feel sick afterwards?
      I'll be the one lifting his wallet as he bleeds on the ground to get my lunch money back.

    5. Re:Go IBM! by zulux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a return to an IBM-dominated world is _not_ what you want.

      IBM *has* really chaged for the better:

      I got a bid from IBM to help out one of my clients - they did a great job (if expensive). And here's the kicker - at no time did they try to steal my customer away from me.

      Not one did they go over my head. When the project was finished, IBM wen't home and diden't perster me or my customer one bit.

      20 years ago IBM would have tried to push me out and pilfer my customer.

      I trust them. Now.

      --

      Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

    6. Re:Go IBM! by Xpilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      IBM was evil back in the day but they were cool evil dammit. They made great techonological breakthroughs, won some Nobel prizes and helped bring a lot of cool things into existance (like hard drives).

      Microsoft's idea of innovation is a talking paper clip. Sheesh.

      --
      "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
    7. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is because most of the readership of slashdot is successfull white males, with probably a couple of asians thrown in, this is why you find that most slashdot readers are anti-negro and pro-morality

    8. Re:Go IBM! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Note to moderators: parent post is not flamebait. It's an opinion I personally disagree with, but it's reasonable and well-expressed.

      Anyway.

      I don't think anyone here is arguing for a return to the days of "no one ever got fired for buying IBM." What I'd like to see, personally, is a world where no one company dominates; where IBM and Microsoft and Oracle, and Sun and Dell and Apple and HP, and whoever else, are all fighting it out. Where there are lots of reasonable choices for any purchase of hardware, software, or combination thereof. Where people who make good decisions are rewarded, and those who make bad decisions learn their lessons, because their products and/or purchases are evaluated on the basis of performance, not brand name.

      Right now, today, in 2004, Microsoft is clearly a dominant and destructive force. If IBM or anyone else can put a dent in their power, then good for them. If at some point IBM returns to its former dominance, or if any of the other companies I named above (or someone else we've never heard of, which is always possible) finds itself in that position, then I'll worry about them.

      "We have no permanent allies, only permanent interests."

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    9. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You trust IBM?

      Heh, sucker....

      When you lose your entire core customer base you won't even know what hit you.

      You think they just want one from you? No, they want you to keep coming back until they have an in to all of your customers and *then* they'll sock it to you.

      You're toast and don't even know it. You're way out of your league dealing with the "new and improved nice and clean white knight" IBM.

    10. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good for you -- When I worked at an IBM reseller/VAR, they had a habit of fucking us out of our customers by bundling services and hardware in with software licences. This was 5 years ago, not 20. Also they were totally assholes about sending out software and developer CDs and the like, at one point even threating to do an audit. Needless to say that's one VAR that turned to the dark side and started pushing MS stuff.

    11. Re:Go IBM! by bonch · · Score: 0, Troll

      Microsoft's idea of innovation is a talking paper clip. Sheesh. ...says the Linux user running KDE with a taskbar, start menu, integrated file/net browser, the same print dialogs, and more.

    12. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That makes me want to sing Kum Ba Ya.

    13. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll
      Microsoft's idea of innovation is a talking paper clip. Sheesh. ...says the Linux user running KDE with a taskbar, start menu, integrated file/net browser, the same print dialogs, and more.

      And tabbed browsing, popup blocking, bayesian spam filtering, virtual desktops, etc.

    14. Re:Go IBM! by cr0sh · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You know, as a company, I don't trust them on principle - they are larger than me as an individual, and corporate ethos is "make more money for the shareholders" - they are amoral by definition.

      With that said, though - there are some bright spots at this company. My personal story is that I recently got an IBM NetStation PC (one of the really old ones) from my work. No drivers, nothing - but I wanted to get it working. The problem is, all the info about getting it to work using a Linux server to boot was out of date - all the links in FAQs to IBM were broken, no longer supported. I searched and searched, found only a little information - so I decided to contact IBM directly.

      I thought it was going to be a dead end - likely they would ask if I had a service agreement (or would I like to purchase one), so they could help me. But surprise, surprise!

      Not only did they help me, and quickly, they pointed me to the source for all the PDF documentation and drivers, and old TurboLinux install software for the boot server and everything - all in the span of a week!

      I have so rarely received service like that - I was (and still am) greatly impressed. Technically, they didn't have to help me - I wasn't another company (I explicitly told them I was a hobbiest), but they supported me anyway - on their own dime.

      THANK YOU, IBM (though I still hold my reservations about corporations)...

      --
      Reason is the Path to God - Anon
    15. Re:Go IBM! by imroy · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...says the (presumebly) Windows user - running a multitasking operating system, with a GUI, using a mouse, with (most likely) audio and 3D graphics hardware, and connected to the internet ;)

    16. Re:Go IBM! by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IBM *has* really chaged for the better:

      I guess that depends on what you mean by "better". IBM used to have loyalty to the employees that built the company into the success that it is. Now, they are offshoring jobs, and non-executive employees are just replaceable widgets. IBM really doesn't have any regard for its customers either.

      I trust them. Now.

      Okay, IBM is better than SCO, but I wouldn't go all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw their headquarters building.

    17. Re:Go IBM! by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 2, Insightful
      IBM *has* really chaged for the better

      I too have been playing this game long enough to remember when IBM were the big monopolist. At present, IBM are being reasonably good corporate citizens, but it has to be said that unless and until we get open commodity data formats for the overwhelming majority of interchanged data (and, to be fair, we are on the way there) the software industry is dynamically unstable and will tend to produce monopolies. I don't trust any large commercial software business to have the public interest at heart in the long term. This is not an attack on IBM in particular. As others have pointed out on this thread, modern corporate governance is inherently amoral, and IBM is not immune to that.

      So no, you don't want IBM - or anyone else - taking over from Microsoft as the world's dominant software vendor. We'd all be much better off with half a dozen competing software vendors, who were somehow compelled to use only open data formats. Somehow, I don't think modern capitalism is going to deliver that.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    18. Re:Go IBM! by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      (apropos innovation)

      ...says the (presumebly) Windows user - running a multitasking operating system, with a GUI, using a mouse, with (most likely) audio and 3D graphics hardware, and connected to the internet ;)

      I was running a multitasking operating system, with a GUI, using a mouse, with audio hardware, and connected to the internet, in 1985. The name on the box was Xerox. There is no essential feature of the software environment of a modern Windows box that wasn't present on my Dandelion then. However, the Dandelion had lots of cool software features that your Windows box could not even begin to emulate.

      Next?

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    19. Re:Go IBM! by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is why we need to support opensource.

      Every corp would love to be MS. Dont you think Sun or Oracle would be just as antiopen source and proprietary if they had the market?

      A company only exists to gain marketshare and profits for their investors. If they dont be a bully and stop any competition from existing then they are not doing their job. The investors are paying the CEO for maximum return, which can be gained by a monopoly.

      FOSS is the only end one. If something sucks or takes a wrond direction a competitor or fork will always show up.

    20. Re:Go IBM! by FyRE666 · · Score: 1

      You young /. whippersnappers may be too young to remember when IBM controlled all of American computing and Microsoft were the courageous (but often mocked) young rebels, but believe me, a return to an IBM-dominated world is _not_ what you want.

      I don't live in America though, so why the hell should I care ;-)

    21. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      GUI + Mouse? Try Xerox Park labs

      3D graphics hardware, try SGI's Open GL

      Multitasking OS? How about VM, and MVS.

      Connected to the internet? Try AT&T UNIX.

    22. Re:Go IBM! by Wooky_linuxer · · Score: 1

      A world dominated by any single monstrous corporation, or any conglomerate of monstrous corporations, is _not_ what we want. Unless we happen to own a significant share of one of them.

      --
      Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
    23. Re:Go IBM! by kasperd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      return to an IBM-dominated world is _not_ what you want.

      Right now IBM is pushing Linux forward. Of course they do that because they want to make money on their hardware. But if they suceed (and I think they will, it can suddenly go very fast), how could they possibly dominate the world? If another company could make some good hardware, they could run Linux as well. And with open standards, and two hardware platforms running the same open source software, it will really be hard to monopolize the market.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    24. Re:Go IBM! by AsimovBesterClarke · · Score: 1

      Just as a FWIW.... Yes, IBM was the 800 lb gorilla. No argueing their actions have been quite despicable. Sadly, I'm old enough to remember many of these antics. However, even at their worst, their service was exemplary

      --
      Ads are broken.
    25. Re:Go IBM! by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 1

      Eh, maybe I'm too drunk to be posting responses, but wasn't that the (modded funny) parent poster's point? If so why is this post 'insightful'?
      And if I'm wrong just mod me +20 'pissed'.

    26. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, IBM is better than SCO, but I wouldn't go all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw their headquarters building.

      Wuss. You need to go to the gym more.

    27. Re:Go IBM! by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Perhaps they are one of the few companies that realize that it is GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE to treat customers and potential customers well. IBMs been around long enough to hopefully recognize the impact of long term decisions compared to the short term ones many companies are making these days.

      In an age when corporations are considered as evil as terrorists, IBM is quickly positioning itself to be the caring father figure who will watch out for us, and that is a DAMN good position to be in.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    28. Re:Go IBM! by veldstra · · Score: 1

      See it as a sort of evolutionary process. Everything in nature tends to look for balance, and in a wicked sort of way, people do too. In the case of microsoft the initial balance was that people could do what they wanted to do with a computer, without learning all the tough commandline thingies. The balance here was productivity, at the loss of freedom in what to do with your computer. Suddenly Linux sprang up, and the balance was at freedom, sometimes at the loss of productivity, but recently the development trend seems to shift to user-friendliness, and we got balance at both fields. I am sure that one company could dsrupt the balnce on one point, but I am sure that people will stand up and correct it, even if it will take a few years. I get the feeling that IBM nowadays understands this. It behaves way more friendly/supportive as it used to do, and tries to compete on expertise, not on sheer marketshare or dominance.
      I wish more companies understood this principle. I know that being the biggest is nice, but being the best is tougher, but more rewarding. I think that's also the key factor what makes Linux/BSD/OSS what it is today, the best ideas/code survive, just as nature would do.

    29. Re:Go IBM! by imroy · · Score: 1

      No, you're right. I was replying to a poster whom I'm now certain is some sort of anti-OSS troll (and is thus now on my foes list, grrr). He was trying to be whitty and criticize a "Linux user" for using KDE and the MS-isms therein. I made a simple parody of his post but at least two people seem to have missed my point. Maybe because the original post was soon modded as troll, maybe because my post was so short and I didn't qualify it with an explaination. I simply tried to come up with some "features" of Windows that were developed outside of MS (which isn't hard, really).

      An anonymous post got the general gyst though.

      • Multitasking - Multics, Unix, VMS. This feature goes way back to time-sharing mainframes. It's probably difficult nowadays to ascertain who really did it first.
      • GUI - Xerox PARC, Apple, MIT (X), Acorn RiscOS.
      • Mouse - Stanford, Xerox PARC, Apple.
      • Audio hardware - erm, not really sure. Apple macs and Amigas had built-in sound hardware long before the x86 PC did.
      • Accelerated graphics hardware (2D/3D) - Silicon Graphics, Sun, HP, Apollo, Evans and Sutherland.
      • 3D API's - IrisGL/OpenGL, PEX.
      • LANs and the Internet - Xerox PARC (LAN concept), 3Com (ethernet), Apple (Appleshare?), Unix (TCP/IP), Novell (IPX/SPX).

      Show some respect for your elders, or at least know them ;)

    30. Re:Go IBM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You don't sell a man one car, you sell him five cars over fifteen years."

  14. Novell ? by polyp2000 · · Score: 1

    Subpoena Novell ,why thats an interesting choice!

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
    1. Re:Novell ? by MoFoQ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      it's a legal formality to cover Novell's ass if need be (in case of a NDA).

      Plus, it's to make it so they can't say no, legally. So even if the document fishing turns out to be unfruitful, no harm to those subpoenaed, at least not in the long-turn (like having a colonoscopy).

    2. Re:Novell ? by sphealey · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Subpoena Novell ,why thats an interesting choice!
      There are some indications that IBM is working on unsealing the USL vs. BSDI case. That would require working methodically and carefully up the ladder to prove that they need the documents; Novell would be a logical starting point.

      sPh

    3. Re:Novell ? by Cognitive+Dissident · · Score: 4, Funny

      So not only can the elephant tap-dance, it can also play chess? ")

  15. Set your shredders to stun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember, sometimes the crime is in the cover up.

  16. Working link by yroJJory · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    Jory
  17. The beast is up walking! by gspr · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is gonna get ugly! Ugly in a good way... :-)

    1. Re:The beast is up walking! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      up walking? you mean waking up?

  18. It's probably not just me... by Jetifi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... anyone else looking forward to the day when SCO's ''office'' is just a smoking field of rubble, their execs are all in jail, and anyone who had their fingers in this pie is up to their necks in subpoenas and/or SEC/FTC probes?

    I can imagine IBM wanting to make that happen. Sorta the corporate equivalent of hanging corpses outside of a medieval town as a warning to others.

    1. Re:It's probably not just me... by polyp2000 · · Score: 1

      Im looking forward to it; Its a war , and in the end good always overcomes evil :)

      --
      Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
    2. Re:It's probably not just me... by francium+de+neobie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > and in the end good always overcomes evil :)

      This is because the winners wrote the history

    3. Re:It's probably not just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "... and in the end good always overcomes evil :)"

      So naive. Never say never and never say always. Unless you are absolutely certain.

  19. IBM and Microsoft by spellraiser · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Go back, as they say. Remember how Microsoft, as a small startup no one had heard off, sold a third-hand operating system to IBM, profited enormously, and then went on to replace IBM as the world's #1 IT superpower?

    Perhaps IBM simply think it's time for a payback. Ironic that if it were successful, this payback would also be 'aided' by a third company (SCO in this case), isn't it?

    --
    I hear there's rumors on the Slashdots
    1. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except Microsoft ISN'T the "world's #1 IT superpower". Where do you get this idea from?

      IBM makes more money, has more employees, and is a bigger company. Go check out the facts at some point...

    2. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      True enough, but I'm not talking about just money and staff here. I'm talking about influence and ideology here. IBM may still be bigger in terms of revenue and overall staff, but it is quite clear that Microsoft has completely replaced IBM as the #1 influential IT company. Microsoft owns Windows, which is the world's most popular operating system. Everyone who knows more than the bare basics about computers knows about Microsoft. For programmers these days, Microsoft calls the shots. They write the operating systems, the APIs, the works. Allright, so there are other operating systems, but which one of those does IBM have? OS/X, which no one uses. The days when IBM was synonymous with personal computers are long, long gone.

      Do you get my drift?

    3. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM is still #1, and EDS is #2, if you have ever heard of them? Beeing the most well-known does not necessarily make you rate the highest.

    4. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both IBM and EDS make boco-bucks from Dinosaur mainframe services. If your shop isn't tied to these platforms already, you can safely ignore them.

    5. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The fact is that if IBM went away tommorow, it would be tragic. Life would go on, but it would be tragic never the less.

      If Microsoft went away, it would be disastrous. I don't like Microsoft more than the next guy on Slashdot, and *WISH* they'd go away, but at this particular juncture in time, Microsoft calls the shots.

      There are replacements in line for anything IBM makes. The chips that IBM makes could easily be outsourced to Motorolla -- not as efficiently, and not quite as fast, but it could happen. Microsoft? If they were fucked up seriously, they could throw their heft around and *RUIN* the computer markets across the world. More than likely, gov'ts would have to come in and take over the ruins and run it as badly as Iraq is being run by an outside source, just make certain a global IT collapse doesn't happen.

      Microsoft *IS* the worlds #1 superpower wether you like it or not. Most of Europe and Africa and Asia and Central and South America and 2 out 3 three north american countries hate the US, but that also doesn't mean its not the #1 superpower across the world (and regardless of how hated we are, I'm glad I live here than anywhere else in the world :-)

    6. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Influence and ideology with home users and desktops perhaps.

      Everything else uses M$ as a last resort and that includes Data centres, the mobile market, the Internet and many other areas such as rtos etc.

      But you probably haven't heard of any of these.

      rgds

      ps IBM makes more profit than M$'s entire revenue so that makes them rather small beer really.

    7. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      WTF? OS/X?

      OS/2 sure (which I think they've dropped anyway; AIX is still supported though), but not Apple's OSX. Let's keep our shit straight.

    8. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't see it that way at all. If MS just went away it wouldn't be a disaster. OSX and Linux would pick up the slack and perhaps more hardware vendors would support Linux and include drivers. This would solve the biggest problem with Linux. It may be more difficult for some people but it certainly has the ability to replace the functions of Windows.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    9. Re:IBM and Microsoft by mst76 · · Score: 3, Informative

      > IBM makes more money,

      IBM's revenues are much larger (91B vs 36B) but the EBITDA (10.4 vs 11.7B) and net earnings (7.8B vs 7.4B) are pretty close.

      > has more employees,

      Making the same amount of money with more people is not good.

      > and is a bigger company. Go check out the facts at some point...

      Depends on your metric. Measured by market cap, MSFT (297B) is much bigger than IBM (155B).

    10. Re:IBM and Microsoft by colinrichardday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If IBM collapsed, who would support its mainframes?

    11. Re:IBM and Microsoft by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Note, he said "superpower", not "supermoney". MS has much, much more control in the industry (and thus, power) than IBM.

      Power is a direct leverage on money.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    12. Re:IBM and Microsoft by zod1025 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the issue is with investment portfolios. If Bill Gates suddenly said "Microsoft is hereby disbanded! Good bye!" then economies everywhere would TANK like no other.

      Remember Enron? Imagine if Microsoft suddenly was the next Enron - yikes.

      --

      -ZOD-
    13. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Fallen_Knight · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >> IBM makes more money,

      >IBM's revenues are much larger (91B vs 36B) but the EBITDA (10.4 vs 11.7B) and net earnings (7.8B vs 7.4B) are pretty close.

      maybe its because IBM inovates and spends lots of money on R&D unlike MS who steals other peoples ideas and depends on poeple being locked into their OS.

      >> has more employees,

      >Making the same amount of money with more people is not good.

      Maybe they would rather spend their money then have 50 billion sitting in the bank? IBM does alot more then MS does so it has to spend more money.

    14. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People are starting to question how much of the $90B that MS has in the bank isn't allocated to others thanks to some funny accounting on the stock options. MS might just turn into a much bigger Enron.

    15. Re:IBM and Microsoft by finkployd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, sorry I don't think so. Microsoft could never run the massive datacenters that IBM hardware and software does. Sure, dinky little desktops would be screwed but in the grand scheme of things, who cares? I don't know of too many large (talking fortune 100 here) companies that rely on Microsoft for mission critical business functions, nearly ALL rely on heavily on IBM in some way. And Microsoft would be a hell of a lot easier to replace.

      Taking away IBM mainframes ALONE would have a much more massive effect than taking away Microsoft.

      Finkployd

    16. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Rosonowski · · Score: 1

      He's using 'X' as a variable value.

      Example: OS/2, OS/390

      Poor choice of variable, admittedly, but it still works.

      --
      01101001 01100001 01101101 01101110 01101111 01110100 01100001 01101100 01100001 01110111 01111001 01100101 01110010
    17. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Pengo · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Making the same amount of money with more people is not good.

      But diversity is. IBM has broken into the services market, and various other markets microsoft could only dream of.

      I would much rather have my revenue derive of various small points than very very few HUGE ones.

    18. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Ironica · · Score: 1

      IBM makes more money, has more employees, and is a bigger company. Go check out the facts at some point...

      MS has a bigger user base. Their actions have an effect on more people.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    19. Re:IBM and Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, that would depend on all the shareholders who own those portfolios also agreeing to disband the company. And if they did agree to such a thing, that would be like shooting themselves in the head with a shotgun.

    20. Re:IBM and Microsoft by HuguesT · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, you got it wrong there. Take away IBM and all it does, all of a sudden no more datacenter. This means no government, no police, no utility, no big business (bank, insurance, etc). Ouch.

      Take away Microsoft and all it does, it can be replaced overnight, on the same hardware. Maybe you would need to replace your mouse.

  20. Nice Turnaround. by polyp2000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Reading this, it sounds like a very nice turnaround from IBM. Now it looks to me (IANAL) that SCO & Co. have the potential to be exposed for the evil no-gooders that they are. I can imagine the piles upon piles of Microsoft anti-linux related communication (or should i say fud?) that has accumulated with these companies over time. This could be the real meat that is needed to really shake up this monopoly led industry.

    In an ideal world anyway!

    nick ...

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
  21. I thought I heard... by Ketnar · · Score: 2, Funny

    The beating of war drums this morning.

    Go get 'em, Big blue.

    And for the record, I'm not holding that whole 'business tie standard' thing against you. I mean that!

    --
    My new top secret key -> C>N|KB
  22. Subpoena: for stupid people like me by Tribbin · · Score: 5, Informative

    From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :

    Subpoena \Sub*p[oe]"na\, n. [NL., fr. L. sub under + poena
    punishment. See Pain.] (Law)
    A writ commanding the attendance in court, as a witness, of
    the person on whom it is served, under a penalty; the process
    by which a defendant in equity is commanded to appear and
    answer the plaintiff's bill. [Written also subpena.]

    --
    If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
    1. Re:Subpoena: for stupid people like me by gellenburg · · Score: 4, Funny

      Subpoena:
      sub = below
      poena = penis
      subpoena = below the penis
      subpoena = by the balls.

      Thanks to IBM's subpoenas, they now have these companies by the balls.

    2. Re:Subpoena: for stupid people like me by fearlessfreddy · · Score: 1

      From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000:

      subpoena A writ requiring appearance in court to give testimony. By comparison, the Webster's definition is redundant and wordy. It puzzles me that more people have not caught on that Webster's sucks. American Heritage Dictionary search is free, too.
    3. Re:Subpoena: for stupid people like me by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 2, Informative

      The grandparent post's definition is from the 1913 edition of Webster's. English in general was wordy and redundant back them. People still use that dictionary because it's the latest English dictionary that is public domain. (sad, huh)

      --
      0 1 - just my two bits
    4. Re:Subpoena: for stupid people like me by SeregonSandgrain · · Score: 0

      Bah! I don't trust either!

      I never trust a dictionary that can't spell "labour", "honour" or "colour" right!

      </ASP>

      --
      My User Agent: "Where is the pr0n?"
    5. Re:Subpoena: for stupid people like me by fearlessfreddy · · Score: 1

      You may have a point about the copyright issue, but I thought that posting a single definition to slashdot would fall under "fair use."

      With regards to the 1913 excuse, you don't have a very good point because the definition in the 1993 10th edition Webster's Collegiate Dictionary isn't any better.

      Webster's is the worst english language dictionary that people actually use. It is probably the most popular dictionary that people buy, too. And it succeeds soley on the basis of brand name recognition. Nobody ever bought Webster's because they compared it side by side with another dictionary and found it superior.

      One should look at Random House, American Heritage, or Oxford English Dictionary before buying a dictionary.

      I prefer American Heritage because it is wonderfully clear and reasonably priced. And there is free web-search, as shown in the grand-parent post.

  23. speculating after rapid skimming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    After a rapid though the article and the comments, it looks like IBM is trying to invalidate totally SCO arguments that it own the copyright . It looks like they are also trying to find anti-concurrencial practices and track them down . They are collecting information for sure and get knowledge of who is the pupeteer . And if they include Novell in the lot it is to know what where the terms of the agreements between Novell and SCO in the selling of unix sources to the latter . I hope it help cut the Gordian Knot .

    Pardon my Englsh , i am French

    1. Re:speculating after rapid skimming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      --> Pardon my Englsh , i am French

      Classic. Every word spelt right (I think/hope) - apart from englsh.

      Thats the way to do it.... :)

    2. Re:speculating after rapid skimming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      anti-concurrencial

      Wow, that's quite an anti-unfunnial word.

    3. Re:speculating after rapid skimming by jamiethehutt · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Pardon my Englsh , i am French

      -5 Flame bait. :-D

  24. Lets Hope.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ..they don't Subpoena Anonymous Cowards

    Apologies if this is already been posted.
    Got delayed - busy misplacing some documents

    1. Re:Lets Hope.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why not? Just imagine some answers to questions:


      Q: Have you spread any information about this case or told anybody?
      A: Yes, just look at my www page at http://goatse.cx


      Q: What did you do when you heard about ____?
      A: I poured a steaming bowl of hot grits down my pants!


      Q: Did you know...
      A; (interrupts) FIRST POST BITCHES!!!


      Need I go on?

  25. it's a good thing....this time by MoFoQ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it's a good thing....I think it's to prove that there's something foul in the air (and no, CowboyNeal didn't have a burrito); aka Microsoft is using SCO to further it's anti-competitive practices, which can in turn be used against SCO.

    I don't think companies that are being sued or threatened to be sued by SCO would say no to IBM's requests, as it is in their interests to help the one who has the bigger army of lawyers. Basically, the subpoenas are a legal formality; in case there's a non-disclosure agreement (a subpoena is a legal way of taking a peek without breaking that NDA), so the companies don't get sued by SCO/Microsoft for disclosing the agreement.

    Fight fire with fire....this case, lawyers with lawyers. The only issue is that since SCO seem to have a secret ally/live-line (Micro$oft), hence IBM's move to possibly expose the foulplay by Microsoft, which will get M$ in hot water with the anti-trust settlements.

    1. Re:it's a good thing....this time by cerberusss · · Score: 1
      there's something foul in the air (and no, CowboyNeal didn't have a burrito)

      I have to say I haven't had such a laugh since I ate two slices of spacecake and drunk a crate of beer.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  26. Ohh I smell a good one here... by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...I think IBM is looking to not only crush SCO (that they already know they'll do), but now they're trying to find leads suggesting this is a smear campaign.

    While I doubt they're going to find condemning evidence, I don't think it'd take much to open another antitrust case against Microsoft. Along with the recent EU findings, I don't think they'd like that at all.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Ohh I smell a good one here... by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I doubt they're going to find condemning evidence, I don't think it'd take much to open another antitrust case against Microsoft.

      KA-CHING!

      That sound you just heard was hundreds of millions of dollars of Microsoft monopoly money headed for the campaign coffers of both Bush and Kerry. Bribery has found a permanent place alongside lying, cheating, and stealing on Microsoft's standard playbook.

      --
      Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
  27. Interesting? More like didn't RTFA by InfiniteWisdom · · Score: 1

    IBM is asking for documents related to communications with SCO or with MS regarding Unix. Given that they're taking on Microsoft in some sense with their Linux strategy its in their interest to expose MS if they're bankrolling this. Or get a big settlement from them.

  28. Microsoft and Novell? by October_30th · · Score: 1
    Uh.

    Why are they involving Microsoft and Novell in this?

    --
    The owls are not what they seem
    1. Re:Microsoft and Novell? by bhtooefr · · Score: 2, Informative

      Microsoft because of a possible MS-SCO connection, and Novell because they're claiming that SCO only has a license to UNIX from Novell that can be yanked at any time, and Novell's yanking it, as they back Linux now (after all, what's SUSE now?)

  29. Fishing? by Spoing · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The Microsoft references are 2 of the 8 listed sets of documents on Morgan Keegan's list.

    If you read the others that focus mainly on communications with SCO, it looks like IBM is just being complete or simply curious; the case be dammed, who knows what this net will drag in?

    That said, I am fully willing to consider that Microsoft is behind the SCO/Baystar/... mess strictly as an abuse of the market.

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  30. For those of you wondering.. by Sheepdot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're wondering why companies like EV1 and Oracle are on there, here some food for thought: (IANAL)

    Oracle is currently not paying SCO for a license along the same lines as EV1. IBM knows this and want to find out why companies like Oracle are bound to a different agreement on licensing than other companies like EV1.

    Basically, IBM *knows* there is something fishy going on with SCO's licensing and plans on pointing it out in court. If any of you have any correspondence with SCO regarding their licensing, I would highly suggest contacting IBM and willingly giving it over, as it will only help their case.

    There are two other reasons for the subpoenas that I can tell: 1) IBM wants to dispel the myth that you have to settle with SCO in order to avoid subpoenas. 2) IBM is most likely using this round to prepare for a second round of requests to appear in court. They are doing this to probably scare Microsoft out of ever trying to thwart Linux and Linux development again.

    1. Re:For those of you wondering.. by Ollierose · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are doing this to probably scare Microsoft out of ever trying to thwart Linux and Linux development again.

      I think the correction would be "They are doing this to scare Microsoft out of ever fucking with IBM again." From what little business studying I've done, I'd say that they're only looking out for their own interests. Red Hat on the other hand, are looking out for the GPL because their stuff is bound under its terms. :)
    2. Re:For those of you wondering.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or to bring in another huge set of lawyers on to the scene and muddle the waters further?

  31. ibm subpoenas by pedicabo · · Score: 0

    It's interesting to see all the different takes on this. Like one of the contributors, I can remember when you couldn't sell a PC if it wasn't described as IBM compatible.I suspect that when it's all over, say a couple of years down the line, MS will still be there and still fighting.

  32. Just a wild speculation... by lfourrier · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... If IBM win because SCO is exhausted, IBM has not won peace of mind about Linux. They don't have proven that Linux is safe, they just proved that fighting IBM is expensive.
    It seems really clear that BayStar was encouraged, through S2, by MS, to invest in SCO.
    But is it impossible for RBC to inject in SCO IBM's money, just to be sure they have the money to go all the way to the supreme court and to prove clearly and for all that Linux is OK. Without speaking of the boost in public image for IBM, as the good guy.

    1. Re:Just a wild speculation... by lemsip · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But the very fact that IBM will have won the case for Linux will score highly with corporate IT managers. Whereas Microsoft say that nobody is accountable for Linux (and so it's unsafe to use), this court case will show that IBM are prepared to be accountable for it, and can win against some pretty damning accusations/FUD.

  33. Dead cat bounce by ozbird · · Score: 1

    SCO is rapidly using up their nine lives; even if they have now ceased to be, their stock price is still subject to dead cat bounces.
    This will probably continue to rebound until they get really on the nose, and finally end with a splat.

  34. Hot Dang! by zogger · · Score: 1

    --been waiting for this. We all knew that SCO was most likley a stalking horse for microsoft. IBM now has enough they got on their own to go fishing in a pond they know is well stocked. this isn't blind fishing either, they KNOW there's tuff there. They waited until they developed enough intel to know they'll get more, the big fat juicey smoking gun stuff.

    And YES, it just might turn out to be microsoft anti trust round two coming up out of this if it plays out like I think it will, and this time, they might get broken up and more real finage than they can painlessly handle. I HOPE the stockholders choke on it, too.

    Too bad though,no marshalls and raids for the loot, the shredders are going to be burning up now. Maybe someone will crack and keep back some good stuff in hopes of getting a deal later on.

    One can hope.

  35. Re:Who's on the "fishing expedition" now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Who's on the "fishing expedition" now?

    You are, Mr. Troll.

  36. Thanks, ESR by Xoro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's possible that IBM's legal team knew all along, but on the face of it those Baystar documents that Raymond posted seem to have provided a breech for IBM to charge into.

    Kudos to him and his source.

    --
    Kill, Tux, kill!
  37. This is why... by PhilippeT · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...you dont piss off someone like Big Blue

    --
    A psychopath can't tell the difference between right and wrong. A sociopath knows the difference - he just doesn't care.
  38. Motiv operendi? by deathguppie · · Score: 1, Insightful

    why would SCO go throught the trouble of litigating a case that they, could not solve?

    It seems to me that, that is a question that I would ask if I were the judge in this case

    I could easily believe at this point that IBM is simply trying to show why SCO hasn't been able to produce any viable evedence. It's a shot at thier legs, trying to take their case out from under them

    --
    once more into the breach
    1. Re:Motiv operendi? by zoloto · · Score: 1

      perhaps because they're shortsighted, much like their previous record will state. SCO/Caldera/Canopy has never had a great track record for solving problems.

      Perhaps they may have, but that's purly speculation on my part.

    2. Re:Motiv operendi? by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      why would SCO go throught the trouble of litigating a case that they, could not solve?

      Because the last action of a desperate company tends to be frivolous lawsuits. If you can't beat'em, sue 'em.

      Besides, you assume that the use of teenage mutent ninga lawyers is a rational move. The justice system is in place because people on the whole are jarheads... and without a judge to arbitrate disputes we would seek justice/vengence in our own individual way.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    3. Re:Motiv operendi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      without a judge to arbitrate disputes we would seek justice/vengence in our own individual way.

      That's so true. Bob wants Darl to be grilled on charcoal, while Alice prefers him to be eaten alive by army ants. Every geek has another opinion how Darl should be tortured or humiliated - the discussion goes on and on and nothing gets done. To prevent this we have a justice system where the judge decides whether Darl has to be kicked into the nuts, skinned with rusty machetes or anal-raped using a redhat advanced server distribution box, including the printed manuals. He is the professional, he knows how to achieve the best results. And there was great rejoicing...

    4. Re:Motiv operendi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Darl, write on the blackboard several million times "I will not claim SCO IP exists in the linux kernel".

  39. Not exactly by autopr0n · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Of course, they can appeal the subpoena, and they may get out of it. It's unlikely, though.

    It would be nice if IBM wasn't quite so quiet about all of this. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing a little bluster from them, what they're thinking. On the other hand, it does give them this aura of a silent killer; you know speak softly and carry a big stick and all. And certainly enough people are complaining about SCO on their own.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Not exactly by Cobron · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't mind seeing a little bluster from them, what they're thinking.

      So wouldn't SCO ;)
    2. Re:Not exactly by macdaddy · · Score: 1

      Sure thing. They could try to quash it (I think that's spelled right). I imagine IBM wrote their subpoena well enough to make it seem plenty reasonable to the judge though. Their lawyers get paid the big bucks to get it right. :) Yeah, I wish they'd tell us more. Then again if they do make their plans readily public that would give the folks they are subpoenaing time to prep. Got to keep you best plays hidden in the back of your playbook until you're ready to kick ass, ya know. :)

    3. Re:Not exactly by Xabraxas · · Score: 1
      On the other hand, it does give them this aura of a silent killer; you know speak softly and carry a big stick and all. And certainly enough people are complaining about SCO on their own.

      Not only that, but it makes them look more respectable than SCO. Nothing makes you look worse then when you run your mouth off and end up getting killed in the fight.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    4. Re:Not exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could try to quash it (I think that's spelled right).

      Yes, you spelled "it" correctly.

  40. How naive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am assuming you had to deal with IBM Global Services -- IBM's consulting division.
    Have you ever worked or know someone who worked for a consulting company? Well, if so, then you would know that selling additional services, whatever the approach may be, is what counts most on the employee's yearly performance evaluation. You won't get fired if you don't sell, unless you're a sales person, but you do get rewards if you do. This means that when you deal with consulting companies, your mileage will vary.

  41. popularity contest by Spellbinder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i would not say the most popular but most used (not same to me)
    i think it is hated by almost everyone for almost everything
    but they still use it
    some for the games, some for the applications, some for the ease of use, some because they know nothing else, some because they have to, some for hacking fun
    hey and there are even people which like it

    --


    stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
  42. No F'n Shoot by Spiked_Three · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Windows success hinged soley on Bill Gates deciding not to take orders from IBM. They were and will again be if allowed, twice the monopolist nazi that Microsoft is.
    I'm not a lawyer, but with the exception of being a bad thing, what legal difference does it make if Microsoft did finance the whole SCO v Linux deal? Is that specifically covered in monopoly law? Otherwise, it seems to me like a perfectly good thing to do for your stockholders. People buy patents for IP protection (and settle exisiting suits) all the time. What would be different here? I can't see how this could be consider abusing your market position. Yes, I know everyone is against Microsoft - but what the legal behind this being wrong?

    --
    slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
    1. Re:No F'n Shoot by speederaser · · Score: 1

      ...what legal difference does it make if Microsoft did finance the whole SCO v Linux deal?

      Well for one, IBM has a countersuit against SCO. If IBM can show that SCO is acting as a legal agent of Microsoft, that may open up Microsoft to liability under the countersuit. IBM knows they're not going to get any money out of SCO, but Microsoft has a coin or two and would make a very fat target.

      This is probably a long shot for IBM, but I can't see them passing up a chance, no matter how remote, of a multi-billion dollar payday 4 or 5 years from now.

  43. Wording change by macdaddy · · Score: 1

    I said judgement when I should have said ruling. A judgement would be something like damages.

  44. BayStar already subpeona'd by Error27 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Groklaw coverred the story.

  45. Groklaw notes that even more subpoenas are likely by Noxx · · Score: 1

    IBM announced today that it will subpoena a Linux end-user by the end of the month. Ok maybe next month. Well, soon anyway...

    Hold your breath until you get the letter, ok?

    --
    Study everything, you'll find something you can use - Jason Bourne
  46. Wouldn't it be simplier...? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    asked to reveal details on all documents concerning any communications with or any meetings involving Microsoft

    Wouldn't it be simplier to just subpoena Microsoft directly?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Wouldn't it be simplier...? by lemsip · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Subpoena the "friendly" guys like Novel/Oracle etc to get a better idea of specifically what to subpoena from Microsoft in round 2...

    2. Re:Wouldn't it be simplier...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they fear some documents might dissapear, if they get the other side of communications first microsoft has a problem if something goes missing - this way microsoft has no chance of knowing what IBM knows...

    3. Re:Wouldn't it be simplier...? by mtenhagen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft would try everthing in his power not to give the documents. The court case would be stalled for years.

      A small company like S2 will give in faster.

      --
      200GB/2TB $7.95 Coupon: SAVE90DOLLAR
    4. Re:Wouldn't it be simplier...? by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      They will lie, they will get caught, they will get away with just a wrist slap.

      Isn't that how it works each and every time?

      By trying something different IBM may get a different result. "We have copies of this, that, and the other, your honor, now where are M$ copies? Might work, hope so.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
  47. Move when ready by pmfp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since it's fashionable to quote Sun Tzu and because it's applicable here, I'll have a few shots at it:

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt."

    "All warfare is based on deception. Therefore, when capable, feign incapacity; when active, inactivity."

    "Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, he is inaudible. Thus he is a matter of his enemy's fate."

    And of course, the greatest:
    "What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. Hence his victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated. Hence the skillful fighter puts himself into a position which makes defeat impossible, and does not miss the moment for defeating the enemy. Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory."

    --

    "So unmerciful is life, that everything afterwards is too late."
    1. Re:Move when ready by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Rules 1 and 2 yes. Rule 3, hmm, I work for the big I, (no I'm not garnering karma points :) , ibm may at times be as subtle as a shaolin elephant, a ninja water-buffalo, a cow wearing ballerina slippers, that said, most would not enjoy being stepped upon by any of those creatures.

      To paraphrase another poster in this thread, "...for those younger /. whippersnappers", the microsoft anti-trust trials, a mere skirmish. AT&T's anti-trust trials?, and they were broken up by the government in the end, ha. IBM's anti-trust trial(s)? They wore out, 4, 4+, some presidential administrations. On and on and on. They didn't get broken up. Funny that IBM used to be dark lord sauron in the land of Armonk NY, in the lord of the token ring :), but there are ARMIES of lawyers behind the black gates of armonk still, and the great lidless all-seeing "I" that has been in existence for oh 60-70 years may be about to fall like a thunderbolt. Perhaps like the asterioid that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. I worked at intel before this and the half-life of employees there is about 2-3 years. ibm has many employees who have been there for decades, 40-50 years. I suppose I wouldn't be suprised if some, stung in the past, had been watching and waiting for something like this sco, microsoft, thing for many many many years. I can't say I am cheering on the home team, no company gets to be big by being "nice". Ironic for we small free linux users, but somtimes one needs big pockets and a handy, well thumbed, copy of of Sun Tzu's Art of War to vanquish a cunning foe. (And I don't mean SCO, I don't think much of their "cunning plan".) Cartoon elephants rear up and run away from little mice, but this elephant may have just spotted the 800 lb gorilla hiding in the bushes who shoved the mouse out into the open towards the elephant in the first place. I think the foliage in the area is about to get a bit squashed and disturbed.

      - the opinions are my own and the computer I'm posting this from is a power-pc, not running windows :)

  48. Shredders? Re:Hot Dang! by arjay-tea · · Score: 1

    I would guess that a lot, if not most, of said correspondence is on one or more backup tapes somewhere. It takes a lot of tap dancing to explain away the disapearance of a backup tape.

    1. Re:Shredders? Re:Hot Dang! by zogger · · Score: 1

      might be. Might be on 16 tapes,3 tapes, one tape, only on hard drives, offsite someplace overseas out of the reach of subpoenas perhaps. We don't know, there's no hard nor fast rule there. Might be emails only, or faxes. Might not be anything, oral only, casual conversations that weren't recorded. the deal is, it's a serious return shot across the bow aimed at microsoft directly, even though it's passing these other ships on the way. Maybe it, along with baystar bailing, will be enough to get microsoft to call off sco, buy them up maybe, let it just go away. MS has gotten too many black eyes lately, even with so called sucesses, even the pointiest headed of bosses knows there's something fundamentally rotten going on there, even if theyhave been using them forever, they GOT to be getting antsy about what's up with them. ME, I'd be afraid to be in business with them in ANY capacity, they are the original back stabbers, taking it to a higher level art form..

    2. Re: Shredders? Re:Hot Dang! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1


      > might be. Might be on 16 tapes,3 tapes, one tape, only on hard drives, offsite someplace overseas out of the reach of subpoenas perhaps. We don't know, there's no hard nor fast rule there. Might be emails only, or faxes.

      And won't it be funny when the police pull into Redmond with a fleet of trucks to haul off all their computing equipment for examination at their leisure.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  49. Interesting Point by loftis · · Score: 1

    In S2's reply to the subpeona, they indicated something interesting. They, 1) say they don't want to give info about communication with SCO, 2) say they don't have anything related to BayStar, and 3) say they don't want to give stuff related to Microsoft.

    This can really only mean one thing: that they discussed with MS and SCO the subject matter of this suit. And they did not with BayStar (which was introduced to SCO admittedly by Microsoft).

    IBM can only be getting ready to go after MS, though possibly indirectly via the anti-trust folks. They can make a great case, I would guess, for unfair and deceptive trade practices, and I doubt that they will roll over and die like W.'s administration.

    --
    Developing Retail Point-of-Sale Software
  50. This is great! by RelliK · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here is what's happening. When SCO finally collapses, who do you go after for damanges? SCO's money will be insufficient to cover the damage to IBM's business and reputation, and most of that money would be eaten up by SCO's lawyers anyway. That is why IBM has been trying to make the case against the Canopy Group, SCO's parent company. Canopy has some money which IBM would be able to recover. But think of what happens if IBM proves, in the court of law, a direct link between SCO and Microsoft? Oh, Microsoft has money. Lots of it. That would be a VERY juicy target for IBM to go after. Microsoft knows this. That is the reason they've been trying to distance themselves from SCO ever since the Baystar connection became known. If Microsoft were found to be liable for the actions of its proxy, it would also open them up to a lawsuit by *any* Linux company. Hmmm, this is going to get interesting!

    --
    ___
    If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
  51. Groklaw Out-Slashdot's Slashdot by PingXao · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    It has to be said... I've been here on /. for a few years now and my karma's not bad. But when it comes to legal issues Groklaw has out-slashdotted /.

    I simply don't read articles here anymore that are covered better on Groklaw, such as SCO legal wranglings. Mod me as you wish but it's just a fact --- I'm off to Groklaw now to read up on the IBM subpoenas.

  52. Monopoly power corrupts absolutely by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 3, Insightful
    IBM was evil back in the day but they were cool evil dammit. They made great techonological breakthroughs, won some Nobel prizes and helped bring a lot of cool things into existance (like hard drives).

    Revolutionary technical change destabilises monopolies. It is, after all, what brought IBM down in the end. All monopolies seek to stifle and hold back technical development - IBM did so in the 1970's in just the same way Microsoft does now. They were not 'cool evil', they were just another greedy parasite, but, unlike Microsoft, a fearsomely efficient greedy parasite. IBM as a monopolist was far more damaging to our industry than Microsoft is now. You don't want them, or anyone else, back in that position. Seriously.

    This is not an attack on IBM as presently constituted. Today they are pretty good citizens, as corporations go. But power corrupts, and monopoly power corrupts absolutely.

    --
    I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  53. TV commercial I'd like to see by plopez · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For the past few years I've had this vision of a an IBM TV commercial I's like to see:

    Scene: Godzilla rampages through town smashing buildings with MS, SCO and other rivals logos on them. People run screaming through the streets like so many cockroachs. Uses breath weapon to roast fleeing individuals who have a suprising resemeblence to Gates, Ballmer, McBride etc.

    Voice Over:IBM, we're back and we're pissed...

    fade out

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:TV commercial I'd like to see by BubbleNOP · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or they could just remake Apple's 1984 commercial into an IBM 2004 commercial. :-)

    2. Re:TV commercial I'd like to see by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I personally want to make a poster of IBMs legal team for this case. Anybody have any idea where I could get pictures of them, and contact information?

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    3. Re:TV commercial I'd like to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That should be Elephantzilla, not godzilla

  54. The tongues of corporate lawyers... by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It would be nice if IBM wasn't quite so quiet about all of this. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing a little bluster from them, what they're thinking.

    The thing is when people are playing this kind of corporate mind games, what they say doesn't tell you what they're thinking. It tells you what they want the other party to think they're thinking, and that's not the same thing at all. Or else it's a diversionary move, or a double bluff, or a smoke screen, or...

    White men may speak with forked tongues, but the tongues of corporate lawyers are n-ary for large values of N.

    --
    I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  55. Tin Foil Hat Time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Troll

    Scary future: (TINAT) this is not a troll

    Microsoft (ala RIAA/MPAA, they buddies) starts to sue own "customers" who use unlicenced Windows and Ofiice the way MP3 copiers were sued. This in support of their (I presume) soon to fail subscruption policies. Who in their right mind would buy a subscription to an OS? I got a air and car subscription to sell them cheap ($1 a breath for air and $1 a mile for car use)

    Why sue? Remember that other than Windows and Office, every other major M$ division (Xbox, MSN, etc.) has historically lost (lots of) money, yet investors keep investing in M$ because it has high ROI even in "slump" times. But OSS/Linux/Openoffice and friends are cutting into their 2 cash cows more each day!

    Solution: M$ is pressuring their losing divisions to cut costs, warning the markets to expect lower earnings, etc. But their real solution is (IMO): Use the whole software/hardware DRM (remember they are buddies with Intel and the RIAA/MPAA) to lock in assure that every copy of windows/office phones home to say either "I'm registered" or "sue this guy!" and likewise with media files.

    The Mac will be the only platform where the hardware is DRM free and the software is mostly DRM free (yes I know iTunes Music Store is DRM, but a mild and relatively harmless one).

    Tie to Linux, because while the software is DRM free, the largest installed base is x86 Linux, which means same hardware DRM as Windows is likely, lest it falls into the less features/incompatible FUD M$ loves to push, along with Linux being branded a "pirate" OS by RIAA/MPAA.

    And that is ignoring the worst case scenario, M$ using hardware DRM to lock Linux out of x86! Can't happen? yeah cause the US DOJ has been so vocally suing M$ lately for ever more blatant antitrust violations! The ground is littered with the corpses of companies who said M$ can't do that, we'll sue and either lost in court or won there but were still driven out of business!

  56. Beware the Nazgul by technoCon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Once upon a time, some ambulance-chasers shook down Apple. Rather than prove Apple keyboards did not hurt wrists, Apple settled and thereby minimized their expected expense of litigation. (An expected loss, as any MBA can tell you is the probability of an event, times the cost of that eventuality. If I sue you with a one-in-a-million chance of winning for a billion dollars, then your expected loss is one thousand dollars plus legal expenses.)

    Thereafter some bright tort lawyers got the idea that if Apple provided a nice payday, then IBM would provide richer pickings. They sued IBM, but IBM did not settle. Instead, IBM fought and won in court.

    But IBM did not stop there. Big Blue turned around and sued the law firms who had brought these nuisance law suits.

    If, as us tin-hat wearers have suggested, Microsoft has financed barratry, maintenance and champerty against the Open Source community (of which IBM is a member) through SCO, Canopy and/or BayStar, then Microsoft should be held responsible. These subpoenas may indicate IBM's inclination to explore this kind of litigation.

  57. A game in which the bull dies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sounds about right; just substitute 'gnu' for 'bull' and I think you'd be describing what MS is gonna do to Open Source.

    It's GOOD to o3n the government!

  58. A business opportunity! by Xerp · · Score: 1

    I think I'm going into the paper shredder market. That and fire-proof bins. Come and get them while they're still hot. Um... obviously the bins are only to be used for "rubbish".

    1. Re:A business opportunity! by BubbleNOP · · Score: 1

      You should have your shredder scan and store documents on a hidden hard drive before shredding them. :-) That way you can make some money off law enforcement as well.

  59. Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "These elements clearly point to a company in its death throes wanting desperately to get bought out."

    Maybe just certain people at the top of that company are stashing away cash like crazy while they can and don't give one single, solitary flying fuck about anything or anybody else, including that company.

  60. but IBM's desktops/workstations are *beep* by standing_still · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I work for a company of 87 employees as a desktop technician. For awhile we were solely an IBM shop until I showed management our failing hardware records with IBM (59 of our 62 workstations had hardware failures, and we would receive refurbed parts as replacements). A few months ago we started doing business with Dell. Since then we have replaced many of our IBM stations with DELL. To date we have 43 Dell workstations/laptops and our record for failing Dell hardware is: Workstaiton -- Failed right of the box Monitor -- suddenly went blurry. Hard Drive Failure - It was a Maxtor.... didn't see that happening! Over all I like IBM - our servers work great, and the support has been incredible -- on par with Sun support, but IBM desktops SUCK!

    1. Re:but IBM's desktops/workstations are *beep* by iggymanz · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      but IBM's T series Thinkpad laptops rule, whereas Dell laptops suck poopy donkey gonads

    2. Re:but IBM's desktops/workstations are *beep* by DrHex · · Score: 1

      Well for one thing, IBM provides support through it's Global Services division since 1999.

      Global Services deal with IBM

      Then there's this cherry 7 year deal they inked back in 1999 for IBM to manufacture Dell's equipment.

      IBM to Manufacture for Dell

      --
      Scientia et Potentia
  61. Your sig is wrong. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    I think that you meant to put:
    Tux, kill bill.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  62. IBM is smart and has smart lawyers by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You know that old "you got the right to remain silent" bit that cops tell you as they cuff you and you fall down the stairs on the way to the cells?

    It is good advice, the best advice and the one piece of advice you should always take. DON'T SAY A THING. Let the lawyers talk. They are trained for it and if they are any good they will say the absolute minimum as well.

    We have two recent and excellent examples of people who didn't take this bit of advice. Martha Stewart. They didn't get her on her crimes but got her because she didn't keep her mouth shut and lied to cops. A big nono.

    The other is of course Darl "Leghorn" McBride himself. Baystar is reclaiming their investment because Darl just can't keep his mouth shut. Baystar is not against the lawsuit, they love the lawsuit, they just want it to be fought out in the courts where there is a change of SCO winning (or at least they like the odds on it) rather then being fought out in the streets and press where SCO is only loosing.

    So wishing for IBM to make public statements is like wishing for the CIA to have press annoucements about the deployments of secret agents. Ain't gonna happen.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:IBM is smart and has smart lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You know that old "you got the right to remain silent" bit that cops tell you as they cuff you and you fall down the stairs on the way to the cells?

      It is good advice, the best advice and the one piece of advice you should always take.


      The part I don't get is that, at least in the movies, when they ask at the end "Do you understand these rights as I have explained them?" or however it goes, why would someone answer "yes" to that? Isn't that kind of an unnecessary thing to agree to? Why not just say "No, I don't really understand that... the only part I caught was that I need a lawyer, so I'm sure my lawyer will be able to explain it to me."

  63. Ob-pseudo-movie-quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > I hope IBM kicks ass and takes names.

    And they already got all the names.......

  64. IBM is very people friendly. by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wrote IBM back in 2000 for my high school senior project and asked them for a 10 port ethernet hub (unsolicited donations, yay!). Within a week I got a box in the mail and it was a 20 port 100/10 switch with a gigabit uplink. There was a brief note attached saying it was a used unit (used in their office) and that I could have it totally for free- no strings attached.

    I used it for my project then later that year sold it to a production house (that I happened to be working for). Hooray for IBM.

  65. You mean you just figured it out? by Prof.+Pi · · Score: 1

    You just figured out now that /. just collects links to other peoples' original source material, adds commentary and then provides an open bulletin board for debate?

  66. Love the instructions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure this is all standard boilerplate, but I'm also sure SCO's executives are _amazed_ IBM knew they'd try this:

    Each paragraph should herein be construed independently and, unless otherwise directed, without reference to any other paragraph for the purpose of limitation.
    The use of any definition for the purposes of this request shall not be deemed to constitute an agreement or acknowledgement on the part of IBM that such definition is accurate, meaningful, or appropriate for any other purpose in this action.
    Each requested document shall be produced in its entirety. If a document responsive to any request cannot be produced in full, it shall be produced to the extent possible with an explanation stating why production of the remainder is not possible.
    Each page or sheet produced is to be marked with a consecutive document control number.
    All documents produced in response to this subpoena shall be produced in the same order as they are kept or maintained in the ordinary course of business and, where attached, shall not be separated or disassembled.
    All documents produced in response to this subpoena shall be produced, where available, in electronic or machine-readable form.

    No 2 million pages of shuffled dot-matrix printouts!

  67. Don't *fsck* with Big Blue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Lest you be lucky to wind up just black and blue....

    Because you're going to get beat to a pulp, and if the folks in Armonk have their way just plain dead.

    My wife used to work at their law firm - rumor had it they once delivered 54 full four-drawer filing cabinets via 18-wheeler truck of legal documentation in a case - documentation that the receiving party had to shell out $400/hour to go through....

  68. Excellent, EV1 continues to pay by Performer+Guy · · Score: 1

    You have to love this, EV1 is continuing to be caught up in a fiasco they now wish they'd not gotten involved in, but more interesting that their pain is IBM's attempt to uncover Microsoft's hand of influence in the whole SCO debacle. This could really explode in Microsoft's face if it turns out that they have been orchestrating this as an anti-Linux campaign. It could be absolutely huge.

    1. Re:Excellent, EV1 continues to pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I was wondering about the speculation about what payoffs EV1 got for being a SCO 'Linux License' 'customer'. What if Microsoft had subsidised their Windows installs? It'd be pretty blatent, more than routing money through a subsidury, but given the price of Windows 2003, it'd be a very substantial saving for them.

  69. You really believe that????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and you pretty much always expect the Republicans to come down on the business side of that argument.

    That is just plain wrong and naive. Republican or Democratic ideology have nothing to do with this. I see you've been scripted by a certain IDEOLOGY yourself (and perhaps the moderator, too).

  70. IBM, SCO, Micro$oft are evil. Debian is my friend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IBM is evil , SCO is evil , Microsoft is evil. GNU/Debian Linux is my friend. Know who your friends are !

  71. confusion by psiphre · · Score: 1

    All this SCO stuff is flying around so fast that I can't even keep the players straight anymore. is IBM a Good Guy(c) or a Bad Guy(c) in the whole affair?

    1. Re:confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to work for IBM and believe me they are using something called the THE HEGELIAN DIALECTIC (PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION) to fool people. It is like watching wresting with the "Rock". It is all rigged. Good Cop, Bad Cop and SCO, M$N and IBM are all playing a fake tugg of war and want to make money while they claim rights to everything and take away your freedoms ! So stick with GNU/Debian Linux and the like and you will truly know who your friends are. I remember listening to a recording of Richard Stallman talk ( in gnu archives ) speak about software and patents. Richard outlined how IBM threatened developers and then would force them into contracts if they continued to develop ( threaten them with lawsuits ). Also, applied digital an IBM subsidiary sibling and they only want to implant a chip in everyone to tract and trace you.Sound like "1984" well remember the apple ads in the 80's ? Well Steve Jobs said the war is over in computers. He failed to mention that all powerpc processors and new computers like the G-5 are made by IBM. Did you hear me I said all apple computers are going to be made by IBM. Know who your friends are. I suggest you visit Richard Stallman on the web. http://www.stallman.org/

  72. DAMMIT!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Learn to fucking spell! Your post is painful to read!

    lose/win
    loose/tight
    bonus not bonnus
    their not theire
    matter not mater
    etc.

    I get the feeling English isn't your native language, but please... at least double-check what you write. Read some more books to get a grasp on how words flow and should be spelled.

  73. No, you're right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  74. Are you mad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obligatory LOTR Quote:

    Mary: Are you mad? We are gonna get caught.
    Pippen: Not this time!

  75. WW2 Reference by brsmith4 · · Score: 1

    I can see Darl right now...

    "I believe we have only awakened a sleeping giant." - Adm. Yamamoto

    IBM is fighting the good fight as we once did. Hopefully, Big Blue will make the enemy pay.

  76. Did that say Morgan Freeman? by CleverDan · · Score: 1
    ...and the seven deadly sins?

    What if IBM did subpoena Morgan Freeman? I count six of the seven deadly sins:

    Vanity - believing that SCO is without fault and will prevail
    Envy - desiring all that Linux is and has
    Gluttony - consuming resources of the legal system and the Linux community
    Wrath - Darl's diatribes against Linux/OSS
    Greed - the SCO 'pump and dump' scheme
    Sloth - SCO does no work - they just sue, sue, sue!
    Lust - hmm... anyone?

    1. Re:Did that say Morgan Freeman? by hal0zer0 · · Score: 1

      Lust for the thousands (maybe millions) of nice juicy wallets sitting in front of linux boxen.

      --
      Hey sexy mama, wanna kill all humans?
  77. Market Caput. by twitter · · Score: 0
    Measured by market cap, MSFT (297B) is much bigger than IBM (155B).

    Until big dumb companies notice that free software does what M$ does. Then earnings and stock prices go into the toilet. It's already happening and M$'s power to coerce vendors and hardware makers alike is failing it. For Microsoft, this is a death spiral.

    You might also consider public goodwill. IBM has plenty, Microsoft does not.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Market Caput. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Moderators: Please note that "twitter" is a known fanatical psycophant whose obnoxious offtopic rants are legend here on Slashdot. It doesn't matter what the topic is, he'll find a way to scrape in some pointless Microsoft bashing. While nobody expects us to love Microsoft in any way, his particularly tepid style of calling anyone he replies to "troll" or "liar" because he happens to disagree with whatever they're saying is well documented and should not be rewarded. If anything, twitter is the type of person that should not be part of the open source/free software community. He is an anathema to all that is good about free software.

      I'm posting this so that you (the moderator) have some context to consider twitter and not mod him up whenever he posts his filler preformatted rants about installing Knoppix or whatever that unfortunately get him karma every single time and allow him to continue posting his trademark toxic crap (read on) day in and day out. You may consider this a troll - I consider it community service. And I ain't kidding.

      If you're a /. subscriber, I invite you to look through some of his posting history. I guarantee that you'll be hard pressed to find someone that is more "out there" than twitter. You'll also probably notice he's got quite an AC following. Don't just read his posts, make sure you go through the replies.

      For example, in this recent post twitter not only calls the OP a troll but attempts to "tell it like it is" while making some vague argument about "GNU". Yes, if you're confused, you're not alone. The reply (modded +4) proceeds to simply destroy his bogus argument. You will notice he did not reply. This is what some people call "drive-by advocacy". A sort of I'll just leave you with my thoughts here and move on to the next flamebait kind of deal. In fact, he almost never replies because he knows that his fanatical arguments simply do not hold up to any sort of discussion. It's not that he's chosen the wrong cause - he's just going at it in a completely wrong way.

      More? Just read though this post and the subsequent replies. I guess this stands on its own.

      More? Bad spelling in astounding conspiracy theories, more offtopic FUD and uninformed "I'm right, look at me" rants, promptly proven wrong. Worse even, twitter wants to be RMS, apparently (that first one is a winner). I mean, really. You think?

      FUD, FUD, FUD, FUD, offtopic FUD, and more FUD. This guy is like the Monty Python SPAM skit, but with FUD and more FUD instead of canned meat. Amazed

  78. Back in the day IBM was as arrogant as MS by garyebickford · · Score: 1
    Back in the 1970's, IBM was arrogant and predatory, possibly worse than MS. Much of the success of the PC was due to rebellion by the IT staffs of the major customers against IBM's attitude.(*)

    A common truism back then was "nobody got fired for buying IBM", because you could get fired for buying non-IBM. Tactics like the following supposedly characteristic story were the cause of much anger against IBM in the 1970's. (Note that IBM never actually sold equipment until forced to as a result of the anti-trust case. IBM retained the equipment and leased it to the user):
    1. Some technically astute IT guy buys/leases a non-IBM tape drive, or printer, or something for 1/2 or 1/3 the price of the IBM hardware and hooks it up to the mainframe. Next time IBM rep comes by, he notices the non-IBM equipment. He doesn't say a thing to the IT guy.


    2. Next week, a phalanx of IBM VPs shows up at the customer's corporate office, where they tell, not the IT guy's manager, or his manager, nor HIS manager, but the chairman of the company, "We see that Mr. Lowly Underling has installed non-IBM equipment on your system. We understand he has the right to do so, but we have to tell you that as long as that equipment is hooked up to our machine, we can't guarantee the operation of the machine. If you have a problem, it may take a day or two, or even longer, before your staff can demonstrate that it's not a problem with that Brand X equipment so we can come to your assistance. In the meantime, you'll be down, possibly for days. Are you sure you want to do that?" This is thinly-disguised extortion. Next day the IT guy is fired, IBM peripheral replaces Brand X peripheral.

    Father, Son and Company is an illuminating and entertaining book by Tom Watson Jr., former head of IBM. His father Tom Watson Sr. made IBM a major player, starting in the 1920's IIRC. His stories about some of the tactics he used to compete with the then-leader in cash registers, NCR, are amusing and scary. Best example - building a bogus, fall apart NCR cash register, then impersonating an NCR sales guy and 'demonstrating' it to a business. The machine breaks, parts fall off, the prospect kicks the 'NCR guy' out, and an IBM guy comes in a little bit later to make the sale for IBM. Big Fun!!

    When I started in the business the folks coming out of college were as much anti-IBM, anti-grey-tie, anti-cleanroom-computing as they often are against MS today.

    *(PC success was also partly due to rebellion by the users against arrogant IT staffs - a lesson against any self-described 'ubergeeks' who think that knowing about computers gives them a right to condescend to the users.)
    --
    It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/