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iTunes One Year Anniversary Sparks Comparison

An anonymous reader writes "CNet News is running a story about the upcoming one year anniversary of Apple's iTunes service. It gives a pretty good summary of the year in online music, with a nice chart comparing each service's user base now and then. The most interesting quote in the article is from a record executive stressing that the industry is quietly hoping that the online music stores will start selling songs in compatible formats. As a sidenote, the headline story at the beginning is based off this page."

344 comments

  1. Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I think he means "Formats compatible with our interests, full of DRM."

    1. Re:compatible formats by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wouldn't mind having compatible formats either, I just don't want the RIAA having absolutely any say in it whatsoever, because they don't exactly have the best track record of making decisions which are beneficial to customers.

      The RIAA is going to have to be involved in any DRM system that wants to catch on, because simply put, they control most of the recognizable music in the world. Even if new indie labels start to catch on, that still won't account for the massive back catelog.

    2. Re:Compatible formats by PatientZero · · Score: 5, Insightful
      First off, the current crop of formats do use DRM. They let you burn so many times (in a particular order? I didn't know that), share among X number of PCs, etc. With Sony using OpenMG, you must "check out" songs to your device and then check them back in to your collection.

      The trick is, the ones that are doing this to sell devices have absolutely no incentive to use a format compatible with other devices. For one thing, they make a trivial amount on the music sale itself. For another, once they've hooked you they want to keep you.

      For the music execs, however, it's all about music sales. So clearly it would be better if a consumer could go to any store and have all that music in their combined library. I for one would prefer that, too. It would be so much nicer to have a single media library application that could search and buy from any store simply by installing a plugin.

      How can we get them to go in that direction?

      --
      Freedom to fear. Freedom from thought. Freedom to kill.
      I guess the War on Terror really is about freedom!
    3. Re:compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I wouldn't mind having compatible formats either, I just don't want the RIAA having absolutely any say in it whatsoever, because they don't exactly have the best track record of making decisions which are beneficial to customers.

      How about the decision to sell the music you're buying? Remember, when you buy music from major labels and even some independents, you're buying the RIAA's products. If you don't let them dictate the format, you won't be able to buy it at all.

    4. Re:compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they want everyone to sell inter-compatible formats, but they also want the price to rise to $2.50+/song.

      Clearly we should not be listening to these asshats.

    5. Re:Compatible formats by bonch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How can we get them to go in that direction?

      Stop pirating the fuck out of every artists' music on P2P networks for one. We kinda have to show that there's a demand for it.

      A lot of execs are probably scared to death of online music stores precisely because so many users use online services to rip them off and pirate everybody's music. No wonder they're hesitant...if people were simply honest and showed an interest in being legal, you'd have what you wanted.

    6. Re:Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps if the record companies were honest and started treating the artists and customers fairly, they'd get a bit of that in return.

    7. Re:Compatible formats by insert+3+letters · · Score: 1

      So buy the ultra-limited stuff from itunes or napster? Increasing the profits of these flawed systems won't change anything. Call me when they have a format I can play on a muvu2, my car's mp3 player, and runs on linux. Until then, I'll stick to used at less than $8 a cd (cheaper than any of these download services and I get to use the damn things how I like, not how Steve Jobs or the RIAA wants me to)

    8. Re:compatible formats by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      And I have absolutely no problem with this. I do not purchase nor listen to music from labels affiliated with the RIAA. They can die off for all I care.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    9. Re:Compatible formats by SYFer · · Score: 1

      Dear Ms(r). formats:

      Unfortunately, you have been identified as a "niche," sir and as such are not entitled to "have it your way." Your preference(s) will now be discarded from the database. We apologize for the inconvenience and look forward to you future acquiescence.

      Please go to area C and wait to be called. Thank you!

      cd8667wertwohf-00

      --
      "...all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness..." yada yada
    10. Re:compatible formats by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      I don't see why they have to be involved. MP3 started without them, they were forced to use it. I don't see why another standard couldn't force them to adopt it as well.

      Let everybody NOT associated with them set the new standard, and if it catches on, they will have no choice but to adopt it.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    11. Re:compatible formats by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      MP3 caught on because it was easy and legal to convert their current format of CDs to MP3s...

    12. Re:Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the 21st century. There will *only* be niche markets, and if you don't serve them _all_ you will not survive.

    13. Re:Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The music industry has no interest in a universal format, the more they can get people to re-buy music the better. People bought albums or eight tracks, then maybe cassettes, then cd's, now drm'd aac's, the more the industry can keep people buying music they already owned in some other format they happier the RIAA will be. It requires too much effort/knowledge on the consumers part to convert their old library of music to the new formats, so they just re-buy it in many cases.

      Not to mention that the current digital for-sale formats store music at low quality, in a couple years there will be new and improved AAC and whatnot for people to re-buy.

    14. Re:Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      We kinda have to show that there's a demand for it.

      No. It is our duty to demonstrate that there is a demand for non DRM crippled, portable, music. Currently the only way to demonstrate that demand online is by using a free alternative to the non-free, restricted, music formats currently on offer.

    15. Re:compatible formats by Salsaman · · Score: 1, Interesting
      I think DRM is a fad, and customers will soon tire of not being able to transfer music between different devices, share songs with their friends, etc, etc.

      Once record companies learn the simple fact that the less restrictive a format is, the better it will sell, it will mark the end of the DRM experiment.

    16. Re:Compatible formats by harkabeeparolyn · · Score: 5, Insightful
      How can we get them to go in that direction?

      Stop pirating the fuck out of every artists' music on P2P networks for one. We kinda have to show that there's a demand for it.

      Fuck that. Things always get worse. Look at DVDs. They started out OK--- movies in a clean format, random access, extra features, all good. Once DVDs became popular THEN it was time to fuck it up by pinching every nickel out of the format. First we had unskippable FBI warnings. Then unskippable movie previews. Now we have unskippable ads and previews at the beginning of disks. Combine that with increased product placement in the movies themselves, "enhanced" region encoding and media companies suing the hind legs off companies that make legitimate products like DVD X Copy and at some point you have to say "Enough is enough!" and start pushing back. The IP rights media companies claim were granted by "We the People" and not the other way around. Abuse those rights and you can kiss our collective asses because you have no rights unless the majority of the people think you do.

      Enter p2p file sharing. The computer technology that's being used to systematically break the back of the working man is now bringing the working man some dividends in the form of easy copying of any and all media he can get his grubby hands on. One thing corporations have taught us is that there is only one rule and that is to do anything you can get away with it. Live by the sword, die by the sword. If you twist the rules, lie, cheat and steal then you shouldn't be surprised when others follow your example. That's why the media companies can BITE ME. Every dog has his day and ours is today.

    17. Re:compatible formats by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      That is only partly true. Sure it helped, but MP3 brought audio compression itself to a whole new level. Don't assume that music was the ONLY reason for the MP3 format to be used so widely. Many other types of audio recordings benefit from it, especially ones where audio quality isn't the most important factor and file size is.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    18. Re:Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That hasn't been true for awhile. It certainly wasn't true in the 90's before Napster. In many ways the record industries failure to to jump on internet as a means of distributing music (along with the horrible crap they've been turning out) was probably at least part of the reason Napster etc were/are so successful.

    19. Re:compatible formats by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're saying that the format the customer can share music with their friends with will result in more sales. And you say that's a fact. Sounds rather counter-intuitive to me, but if it's a fact, you'll have some evidence to back it up, won't you?

    20. Re:compatible formats by Salsaman · · Score: 0
      Yes I am saying precisely that. It is just common sense. Imagine I am a person with a group of friends who we all share music with each other (not that I am condoning this or condeming it, it is just an example). Now we all decide to start using an online service. Which one will we choose ? One that lets us go on sharing or one that prevents us from doing so ? Which service will we prefer, the one that lets us burn our music to mp3 to play in the car, or the one that doesn't ? If we all decide on using different incompatible systems, who will be the most popular of the group, the one who can share or the one who can't ?

      Technological means will not stop the major 'pirates', they will just serve to annoy customers.

    21. Re:Compatible formats by JWW · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You realize that in actuallity you are calling mp3's a niche. I have a DVD player, computer (whatever OS I want), a PDA, and a boombox that can play mp3s. They can't all play aac, they can't all play windows media, or even ogg.

      The standard they want is actually mp3. When they give up on their addiction to DRM and actually sell mp3s I will be in line to buy.

    22. Re:compatible formats by Vadim+Grinshpun · · Score: 1

      >because simply put, they control most of the
      >recognizable music in the world.
      It's RIAA, not RIAW... There's plenty of music being made outside of the states, and I doubt RIAA controls every import. Though who knows...

      just nitpicking :)

    23. Re:compatible formats by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Ah! A common sense fact. In other words not a fact at all, but an assumption based on your view of the world. My view of the world says that the average group of friends only casually swap stuff if it's easy to do.

      When I was a teenager was in the days of 8-bit home computers and games on cassette. Originally they were easy to copy, you just loaded the game up and then saved it again on another tape. My group of friends bought very few original games, and those we did we shared with everyone. Then they put rudimentary copy protection on the tapes. You couldn't do load/save copying anymore. Tape to tape audio copying was possible, but even that was made more difficult after a while by cunning copy protection mechanisms. Now people had to crack games or get a set up with a couple of good tape machines in order to copy them. It wasn't impossible, but it wasn't a casual matter anymore. And we started to just buy the original game more often, rather than mess about.

      Technological means will not stop the major 'pirates', they will just serve to annoy customers.

      Nothing will stop the dedicated pirates, both professional and amateur. It's the casual copier that DRM combats. Take a look at the figures in the article. P2P illegal file sharing is much higher right now than legal downloading. But it isn't really growing anymore. Legal downloading (with DRM) is very much in it's early days still, but is growing rapidly. In a years time it will probably have overtaken P2P, and go on to be much bigger than it. P2P isn't going to be stopped, it's just going to become an irrelevant activity for the dedicated cheapskate.

    24. Re:compatible formats by 2names · · Score: 1
      Jobs says he sees little reason to open up to rivals, given Apple's commanding lead.

      "To be honest, it's just not worth it," Jobs said at last week's Apple shareholder meeting. "It doesn't make any business sense."

      Hmm. Some people never learn...

      --
      "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    25. Re:Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oooh, I love these posts.
      Yeah, I'm sure all the millions of people on P2P-networks are there for this reason... Maybe you and your boyfriend.

      Most of them are just lazy or cheap, or both.

    26. Re:Compatible formats by bonch · · Score: 1

      That's why the media companies can BITE ME. Every dog has his day and ours is today.

      You're an ass. If you ever get a job (I can tell you're a college student), I'll be sure to tell you your company can bite me when your hard work is put online for easy piracy instead of people--gasp--paying you for the fruits of your labor.

      After all, because you think someone is squeezing nickels out of you, that means the copyright magically transfers to the eMule network, right?

      If you're going to accuse the companies of being evil, you can't go around illegally pirating shit and expect anyone to take you seriously. You're one of the first retards to jump up when a company violates the copyright of the GPL, I'm sure.

    27. Re:Compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      His ideas are incorrect, but I admire his zeal. I personally feel similar.

      However, I don't download RIAA-owned music on P2P. I find plenty of great music from overseas, and from independents on shoutcast that I don't feel the need to download much of the played out, unoriginal gunk the record industry is spewing today. Yes, I bought digitally remastered Zepplin and Pink Floyd discs. Yes,I have DVD-Audio disks of classical music. Yes, I buy the $50-100 soundtracks to video games I like. Its all about your preference.

      Don't say you hate their music and then download and share it. I think the record lables make too much money, and that artists should be able to sell their music at better prices for us and better profit to them through an itunes-like signup. But the I steal because I am getting back at them rationale will not win you any friends.

      However, I do have to clear up some issues. First of all, for everyone who says "every download is lost money for the company and artist" I say...you're wrong. Not all listeners are would be buyers that are dissuaded from their purchase. It falls into the "here-have-a-drink" phenomenon. Someone offers you a free drink, you'll probably take it even if you didn't really want it. If you had to pay for that drink, you wouldn't have thought of getting it. Not saying what they are doing is right or wrong...but lets at least stick to the facts of human consumerism.

      Secondly, I'm sorry...but the RIAA had it coming. For years, all the major hardware manufacturers touted CD burners as "burn your favorite music" knowing full well that people were burning what they found on Napster or Gnutella, or whatever. The RIAA turned a blind eye to any sort of viable copy protection (the ones that can be circumvented by holding shift or that encroach on fair use not withstanding), as well as hiking the price of CDs and not providing the consumer with any incentive to purchase their music. P2P was easy. The RIAA lacked foresight.

      Software companies on the other hand saw it coming. If I go and download a copy of Warcraft III off of a peer to peer service, I have an annoyance ahead of me. First I have to burn the image, then find a crack for the exe or patch it myself to get around SafeDisc2 or whathaveyou. Yay, it works I have the game that loads...oh wait. CD-key time. Better go find a keygen or be really skilled and figure it out for myself. Ok thats done. Single player rocks! Haha I got it for free... now to call Bob and we're going to play onli..oh wait "invalid CD key" DAMN! Unless I'm really quite skilled theres a very small chance I'll get a battle.net CDkey thats viable.

      This is a pain in the ass. This is not something joe-downloader wants to do. Even if he does, he may not be able to access all the features. Software companies provide an incentive for purchase and safeguards through their protections. Now, does that mean people won't pirate? not at all. It does make it harder, however. Also, do most software companies get all bent out of shape when their profits arn't 110% of what they expected and blame it on pirates? Nope. A certain amount of falling-off-the-truck, piracy, cow-related accidents, and what have you are written into the business plan. Do the developers of 3dStudioMAX come after every 18 year old kid who wants to make some Unreal models with his pirated copy of multi-thousand dollar software? nope. They knew he wasn't going to buy it.

      I personally have seen my first keygen based on a program I made, just last week. Yeah, it works. These guys are good. I'm even a little flattered. Have my sales suffered? Not at all, to the best I can tell. However, suppose pirate X learns and likes my little program and takes it to his company of 1000 workstations. Then I'll have a bone to pick with them about liscensing.

      The RIAA has handled this completely wrong. Hats off to developers who give incentive to buy, but don't blame on their woes on those slovenly, ill-tempered,unpleasent-to-look-at pirates /sarcasm off

      Thank you

    28. Re:compatible formats by Salsaman · · Score: 1
      When I was a teenager was in the days of 8-bit home computers and games on cassette. Originally they were easy to copy, you just loaded the game up and then saved it again on another tape. My group of friends bought very few original games, and those we did we shared with everyone. Then they put rudimentary copy protection on the tapes. You couldn't do load/save copying anymore. Tape to tape audio copying was possible, but even that was made more difficult after a while by cunning copy protection mechanisms. Now people had to crack games or get a set up with a couple of good tape machines in order to copy them. It wasn't impossible, but it wasn't a casual matter anymore. And we started to just buy the original game more often, rather than mess about.

      But would you have bought a computer anyway if it had been impossible to copy games from the start ? Maybe you would have, but likely others wouldn't. If you hadn't bought a computer, you would presumably have bought zero games at all. All I am saying is, there is much more to the equation than simply assuming every copy represents one lost sale.

    29. Re:compatible formats by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Even if new indie labels start to catch on, that still won't account for the massive back catelog.

      Two words: Compulsory License

      The sooner it happens the better.

    30. Re:compatible formats by BasilBrush · · Score: 1
      I would have done because my computer was bought mainly for programming. But I was an early adopter. Most of the people in the 1980s home computer boom bought their computers for games and bought them after the copy protection was in full swing. And lots of games programmers in those days bought themselves sports cars on the money they made. Not just the management like now, but the actual programmers. So no, copy protection didn't hurt computer sales, or games sales, and the people in the industry did well out of it. Well they did until that original fad for home computers ran it's course.

      I agree that it is far more complex than 1 copy representing 1 lost sale. Certainly we didn't buy 1 original game for every copy we made before copy protection came in. But still, the copy protection was a definate overall gain for the industry. So it certainly isn't "a fact" that not having DRM on music would result in the music industry selling more music.

    31. Re:compatible formats by Salsaman · · Score: 1
      Well, I beg to differ. If I recall correctly, 'copy protection' in those days usually meant entering a word from the manual, or peering through a lens at a number on the screen and typing it in. In other words, it was almost totally ineffective, and pretty much anyone who wanted a copy could get one. And yet, as you rightly point out, the game writers were buying themselves sports cars.

      The copy protection certainly wasn't embedded in the hardware, and certainly didn't prevent legitimate use such as making a backup (which in fact was the recommendation in those days).

    32. Re:compatible formats by BasilBrush · · Score: 1
      Well, I beg to differ. If I recall correctly, 'copy protection' in those days usually meant entering a word from the manual, or peering through a lens at a number on the screen and typing it in. In other words, it was almost totally ineffective, and pretty much anyone who wanted a copy could get one.

      I wasn't even thinking about those, but yes they were some of the methods. But simply making the "LOAD" command also run a game, rather than just load it was one of the methods I was referring to, and recording high frequency tones on the tapes alongside the data stopped tape to tape copying working with most tape recorders.

      As I say, they weren't foolproof systems, just as today's DRM isn't foolproof, but it was enough to discourage casual "sharing" between friends. You can beg to differ all you like, but I'm giving you my perspective from having experienced it. And it's enough to say that your "fact" isn't a fact at all, but just your opinion.

      And no, making copies for backup wasn't recommended at all, because it wasn't easily done. That was earlier with non-copy protected cassette games, and later with floppy disk based ones on 16 bit micros.

    33. Re:compatible formats by Salsaman · · Score: 1

      Well state you own 'facts' as much as you like. It seems somebody has done the maths. One lost CD sale per 5,000 p2p downloads. Is that really worth the hassle of changing all hardware and software ? What a huge waste of time and ingenuity.

  2. compatible formats by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "The most interesting quote in the article is from a record executive stressing that the industry is quietly hoping that the online music stores will start selling songs in compatible formats."

    [puts on tinfoil hat] I'm sure they'd love that. The saying from LoTR comes to mind:

    One Ring to rule them all
    One Ring to find them
    One Ring to bring them all
    And in the darkness bind them.

    I wouldn't mind having compatible formats either, I just don't want the RIAA having absolutely any say in it whatsoever, because they don't exactly have the best track record of making decisions which are beneficial to customers.

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  3. Mac + Windows = Success by Stopmotioncleaverman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Although Apple has taken a largely proprietary approach to iTunes, it made one major concession by making its software compatible with Microsoft's Windows operating system, effectively untying the iPod from the Mac in hopes of tapping into the much larger market for Windows PC users.

    Which is a massive part of the reason that they have been so successful at totally owning all the competition. If they'd just released iTunes for the Mac, they'd be drowned out by those who supported Windows-based clients simply by force of numbers. A very clever move by Apple: coupled with a huge amount spent on advertising this is a sure-fire way to make money and stay on top.

    1. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wait, releasing itunes for a platform that commands over 90% of the market counts as clever? Huh. I would have went with obvious but I guess we have different clever standards.

    2. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by RonnyJ · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It'd be interesting to see some figures showing the numbers of Mac/Windows users and their respective purchases.

      I'd certainly expect to see that Mac users would be more likely to buy music from the store, which I'd attribute mainly to the lack of P2P clients available on the Mac, which has certainly helped Apple establish themselves in the market with the Mac version of iTunes.

    3. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Unregistered · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apple has been very successful in the past marketing to 5% of the market, but they realized that that strategy wouldn't work for online music.

    4. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has been very successful in the past marketing to 5% of the market ...for some definition of "very successful".

    5. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by FireBreathingDog · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'd certainly expect to see that Mac users would be more likely to buy music from the store, which I'd attribute mainly to the lack of P2P clients available on the Mac, which has certainly helped Apple establish themselves in the market with the Mac version of iTunes.

      Dude, what are you talking about?

      I take it you don't have a Mac. Well, I don't need 10,000 different programs, 99% of which have shitty interfaces sitting atop half-assed implementations. (Then again, this is the place where 'vi' qualifies as a nice interface...so what should I expect?)

      My personal favorite client is Acquisition. Nice interface, works well, very Mac-like.

    6. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I don't think I've ever heard someone refer to vi as having a nice interface. If they did, I'd laugh at them. Then when they asked why I was laughing, I'd laugh some more. However, vi has a highly functional interface, which is prized in the Unix world, along with simplicity, and the use of stdio.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by RonnyJ · · Score: 0, Informative
      Dude, what are you talking about? I take it you don't have a Mac.

      You're right, P2P applications are certainly available for the Mac. However, fortunately for Apple, most of the general public aren't aware of this, and so see iTunes as their main source for downloading music.

      And once iTunes had become extremely successful for Mac users, it was only a matter of time before they moved into the Windows market.

    8. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How functional is something if you have to spend over a month learning how to accomplish simple tasks that you can grasp how to do within 5 seconds of loading pico?

      Seriously, I'm sure there's propellerheads out there who have incredible use for all the functionality of vi. 99% of the world, though, doesn't need those features, we just want to fscking get work done in as short a time as possible without investing ungodly amounts of time on software that effectively has no user interface (beyond printing the man pages ahead of time and referring to them dozens of times while editing a file).

    9. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Bricklets · · Score: 5, Interesting

      releasing itunes for a platform that commands over 90% of the market counts as clever? Huh. I would have went with obvious...

      Apple's number one goal is to increase the number of Mac users out there. What happened during the two years where iPods were exclusively for Macs was that you saw some people buy a Mac just so they could get an iPod. Then (and I remember reading this in an interview with Jobs in Rolling Stone), Apple had to make a conscience decision on whether it was more important to leverage iPods to increase Mac sales or whether they should try to dominate the MP3 Player market. They decided the latter, and and it has turned out to be a good decision.

      So it was a obvious choice to make it compatible on Windows for an MP3 Player company. For for a company like Apple who's main product is the computer, the choice wasn't so obvious.

      --
      Little Bricklets
    10. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're right, P2P applications are certainly available for the Mac. However, fortunately for Apple, most of the general public aren't aware of this, and so see iTunes as their main source for downloading music.

      He already proved you wrong about P2P app availability. Now we're supposed to take your next declaration of what the "general public" is aware of?

    11. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by useosx · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nice post, but a little out of date, as I see no mention of Poisoned which is a front end to giFT. giFT supports FastTrack (Kazaa), Gnutella, and OpenFT (a hot little network). Personally I'd rather run Poisoned than Kazaa any day.

      Furthermore, the BitTorrent community is alive and well on OS X. Azureus works really well, and there's a hot little native client that is better than the standard one.

      I've been using the Overnet command line client, which sucks but gets the job done better than the various front-ends floating around.

      And then there's Hotline, Carracho, and the new open-source client-server model "Wired".

      Enjoy.

    12. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And considering one of the original P2P apps was solely a Mac app for years (Hotline) -- and not FTP is not P2P (we had that too).

    13. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The ultimate truth is that fewer keystrokes=better app (AFIAC)--at least for the true pro. The value of the GUI is inversely proportional to the professionalism of the user.

    14. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Out of the dozen or so Mac users I've met here at school, every single one has either Poisoned, Acquisition or LimeWire sitting in their dock. None of them are geeks by any means, but they discovered these programs on their own, or they heard about them from their friends. I realize this is just anecdotal, but I think you're underestimating how effective word of mouth can be for even a small community like ours.

    15. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Wildfire+Darkstar · · Score: 1

      Hotline, as nice as it is, is hardly a P2P application. Unless things have changed mightily since I last used it, a Hotline server is still hosted from a single machine, which handles the entirety of the load, a la FTP, HTML, or any number of other protocols.

      Of course, using the media-sanctioned, RIAA-approved definition of "P2P" ("something that allows you to steal from us"), then, yeah, I guess Hotline qualifies. But from a practical perspective, wherein the phrase "P2P" means something, it's not.

      --
      Sean Daugherty "I have walked in Eternity -- and Eternity weeps."
    16. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Apple's number one goal is to increase the number of Mac users out there.

      Some Mac supporters fear that in this may change someday to increasing the number of iPod users out there. It seems that there is an increasing difference between being a Mac supporter and an Apple Inc. supporter.

    17. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a bit weak for an ultimate truth. Have you ever tried producing AutoCAD drawings by typing in all the co-ordinates, lines and surfaces? The console is there to do it. However the pro will spend most of his time using a pointing device manuiplating graphics. A GUI in other words. And most proffesionals in the publishing industry use GUIs on their publishing systems, not TeX. TeX is for academics, not professionals. Oh, we could produce a thousand of examples to show that professionals have good reason to use GUIs rather than keystrokes.

    18. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well you're right, you don't do everything in autocad from the console. On the other hand, you usually DO do quite a bit there if you are working from an existing drawing, and not sketching. It's a lot easier to type in relationships between known points and then fill in the rest.

      The vi equivalent? gvim.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by elbobo · · Score: 1

      I've yet to see Poison return better results or download faster than the single network Acquisition. As far as I'm concerned, it's all hype and no substance.

    20. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by useosx · · Score: 1

      Trust me, Poisoned works really well. Try refreshing your search results regularly.

    21. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 1

      "Most of the general public" aren't Mac users. Trust me, Mac users are very well aware of the p2p apps available to them.

    22. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Bricklets · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some Mac supporters fear that this may change someday to increasing the number of iPod users out there. It seems that there is an increasing difference between being a Mac supporter and an Apple Inc. supporter.

      Interesting, though in my case the iPod had a huge direct influence over my decision to get an iBook over other PC laptops. I would tend to believe that iPod sales and Apple computer sales are not completely mutually exclusive.

      --
      Little Bricklets
    23. Re:Mac + Windows = Success by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about you, but "profitable" certainly falls within my definition of "very successful."

  4. Who want to bet... by ginwizard · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Google takes a stab at the digital music business before the great IPO launch?

    --
    You can't spell LOLCATZPURR without TROLL.
    1. Re:Who want to bet... by CrankyFool · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd be shocked.

      Google's business model[s] seem[s] to be based on the concept of charging vendors, rather than users. Is there a single google service that costs money for the average consumer to use? I don't pay to search, to blog, or to get my mail (gmail). I'd be surprised if their first foray into charging customers, if it ever happened, was in the field of online music (especially since I suspect they might have a hard time doing online music and abiding by the whole "don't be evil" thing -- they can't exactly do it without DRM).

    2. Re:Who want to bet... by rms_nz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What sort of role did you have in mind? The only role I can see Google performing is providing a search engine for digital music (perhaps through Froogle).

    3. Re:Who want to bet... by ginwizard · · Score: 0

      Agreed, but google has surprised me before. And lately they've been more about generating buzz than profit (a la a pre-dotcom bust).

      --
      You can't spell LOLCATZPURR without TROLL.
    4. Re:Who want to bet... by FrYGuY101 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Is there a single google service that costs money for the average consumer to use?
      Yep. Google Answers.
      --
      "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."

      - Seneca
    5. Re:Who want to bet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Offtopic, Funny and Overrated? (As of posting this comment).

      OK, so it's not funny, so it gets marked unfunny. I.e., overrated. Or... maybe it counts as interesting. Maybe even insightful?

      But OFFTOPIC? C'mon now!

      Time to head off and meta-moderate. Maybe I'll get lucky. Maybe you won't...

    6. Re:Who want to bet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Funny? Maybe not. Interesting? Maybe, maybe not. Overratted? C'mon. But (like you said) Offtopic!? Are you serious!? We are talking about the past, present, and future of digital music, are we not? Or must all posts refer to apple?

    7. Re:Who want to bet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Though, you can read Google Answers to past questions for free. You only need to pay to ask a question, I think.

  5. Re:Congrats, Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Unlike the hinges however which were a real problem the "burnt powerbook" photos are faked.

  6. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by Mononoke · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Useful to some, for sure, but useless for those among us who are trying to find ways of acquiring musical samples to "try out" various musical bands.
    There is a 30 second sample available for free for every single song available from the iTunes Music Store.

    You just want free music. Go away.

    --
    NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
  7. Leave it to a Microsoft spokesman to... by MikeCapone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Leave it to a Microsoft spokesman to complain about "closed ecosystems". Heh.

  8. Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's interesting to me the way the three major players have laid out their strategies for digital music...

    The Apple camp exists in a silo, as usual. Music purchased at the iTunes Music Store is only playable in iTunes, and only natively transfers to an iPod family portible.

    The Real camp is using their proprietary format for audio that only RealPlayer can play in software, and there's only a limited number of portables that are compatible. In fact, only one of those portables is a true music player, the rest are Palm devices because there's a compatible player for Palm.

    But Microsoft's only entering into the game as a software provider. That means there's no Microsoft music store, but everybody major other than Apple and Real are using WMA as the secure format of choice, including Napster, Wal*Mart, and BuyMusic. They've also got the largest selection of compatible players.

    Really, going the Microsoft route for your DRMed music collection seems like the best answer to me, because you can then shop arround for the best price on single-track buys, and often find the hot songs for 79 or 88 cents. Who says the price of legal music downloads is going up?

    1. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Walmart vs Microsoft. I wonder who can make who the bitch?

    2. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by federal_employee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't mind the price of online songs going down but lets hope that the artist's cut goes up. http://www.downhillbattle.org/itunes/

      --
      ____
      null
    3. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wouldn't mind the price of online songs going down but lets hope that the artist's cut goes up. http://www.downhillbattle.org/itunes/

      Downhill Battle is an absolutely clueless group. Artists who want to directly get themselves into iTunes without any RIAA hand in the till can do so, but they also have to trade off not getting RIAA label promotional help.

      They really should be trying to get indie artists into the other DRMed music universes... or is their real agenda trying to get DRM music to fail as a whole?

    4. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by RickHunter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Apple camp exists in a silo, as usual. Music purchased at the iTunes Music Store is only playable in iTunes, and only natively transfers to an iPod family portible.

      Or, you know, playable in any standard CD audio device. Of which there are a hell of a lot more of than digital music players of any description. This alone is going to keep Apple on top for a long, long time. As I don't see Microsoft opening up a "hole" like that in their iron Digital Rights Infringement scheme.

    5. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The Apple camp exists in a silo, as usual. Music purchased at the iTunes Music Store is only playable in iTunes, and only natively transfers to an iPod family portible."

      Or an Audio CD...which plays anywhere.

      And hey, I don't see what so bad with being stuck with the iPod and iTunes. Even if I could play AAC files in other software / hardware media players, I'd STILL use iTunes and an iPod.

      I'd be one thing if iTunes and the iPod sucked, but they don't They're fantastic. Apple is, more or less, doing what Microsoft has been doing for years. However, the platform Apple forces you to use is actually -good-.

      --
      "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
    6. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Hanji · · Score: 4, Informative

      I call bullshit.

      PlayFair/iTunes allows burning of the same playlist to a CD up to 10 times without modification, and rearranging tracks or tacking on a 1-second silent track counts as modifying and entitles you to another 10 burns. There is no reasonable way you should ever run up against that limit in anything resembling normal use, it seems to me.

      --
      A Minesweeper clone that doesn't suck
    7. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by dr.badass · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple's PlayFair files only allow burning under limited circumstances, particularly that the same mix of songs can only be burned three times.

      That's simply not true. What are these "limited circumstances" you speak of? And where do you get three times? Even Apple says ten is the limit for a given playlist, and IIRC, once you reach that limit you can just make a new, identical playlist. There is no per-track limit.

      Microsoft's WMA format allows the DRM applier to set whether they want to allow 1 burn, 5 burns, any other number of burns, or infinite burning. Again, Microsoft's just the software provider, it's up to the store to make the deals for these things....

      What this means in reality is that any two tracks even from the same store might have different limitations. If you make a mix with tracks A and B, with burn limits of 1 and 5, respectively, you won't be allowed to make two copies of that mix.

      --
      Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
    8. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by sn2k · · Score: 1
      From the website:
      Apple takes a 35% cut from every song and every album sold, a huge amount considering how little they have to do. Record labels receive the other 65% of each sale. Of this, major label artists will end up with only 8 to 14 cents per song, depending on their contract
      hmm... apple and the record companies take 100% cut yet the artists still get 8 to 14 cents per song. I'm not saying this is a fair to the artists but I don't like it when sites have such obviously wrong statistics.
    9. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by ocelotbob · · Score: 1
      And hey, I don't see what so bad with being stuck with the iPod and iTunes. Even if I could play AAC files in other software / hardware media players, I'd STILL use iTunes and an iPod.
      On the flip side, there are many of us who feel that iTunes on both the Mac and Windows platform are overly bloated for what the program does. Not to mention those of us who use software and hardware platforms that are unsupported by iTunes. Yeah, the ITMS is a great idea, but I'd rather have a solution that believes in cross-platform compatibility.
      --

      Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses

    10. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by davandhol · · Score: 2, Informative

      You should read it more closely--It's saying that artists get 8 to 14 cents from the record labels (who get 65%). Apple doesn't pay the artists, record labels do.

    11. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Fuzzle · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm going to chime into the "bullshit" on this post. I've burnt at least 6 copies of the ERROR - S/T EP I bought from iTunes. I've put the Green Day - I fought the law single on about 10 mix cds, in a mix of Fairplay AAC's, non-DRM AAC, and mp3s. There is no limit on burning that i've been able to find.

    12. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Okay... you caught me putting a three where a ten belongs. However, you also slipped.

      What this means in reality is that any two tracks even from the same store might have different limitations. If you make a mix with tracks A and B, with burn limits of 1 and 5, respectively, you won't be allowed to make two copies of that mix.

      Once it's on an ISO CD format, it's fair game. Just make a binary copy of that CD as many times as you want.

    13. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Phil1 · · Score: 1
      It'd be one thing if iTunes and the iPod sucked, but they don't They're fantastic.

      While you're happy to have the choice made for you now, that might not be the case in the future. Could be tricky moving your entire music collection over to another format.

      --
      I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
    14. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by dr.badass · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Really, going the Microsoft route for your DRMed music collection seems like the best answer to me, because you can then shop arround for the best price on single-track buys, and often find the hot songs for 79 or 88 cents.

      Are you suggesting that people "shop around" for a difference of 10 to 20 cents?

      Are you suggesting that people deal with half a dozen different music stores with different interfaces and different authorization schemes (dispite using the same format) and different per-track limitations so that they can save 10 cents on "hot songs"?

      You wouldn't be so dismissive of the iTunes Music Store if you realized that it's so successful because people don't want to "shop around", they want to hear music". They would rather spend ten cents shopping than ten seconds.

      Who says the price of legal music downloads is going up?

      Uh, the record labels, if they so desire. But you seem to be implying that somehow WMA-format stores will be immune to this kind of price-hike, which is quite unlikely indeed.

      --
      Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
    15. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by FuzzieNorn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But the actual choice in the forseeable future is iTMS vs Windows-only stores.

    16. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Uh, the record labels, if they so desire. But you seem to be implying that somehow WMA-format stores will be immune to this kind of price-hike, which is quite unlikely indeed.

      Has any business ever been able to raise a wholesale price against Wal*Mart?

    17. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The fact that Microsoft allows the burn to be set is, in itself, a restriction. Seriously, Apple had to fight the media companies tooth and nail for the DRM supported by iTunes. They wanted them substantially more restrictive.

      Listen, the store doesn't set the restrictions. You're deluding yourself if you think that's the case. They're set by whatever contract the store negotiates with the media companies. If one of them wants the restriction placed at 3, another at 5, another at 10, another at 15, do you honestly thing the store is going to go through the hassle of setting each of them to the correct contractual value and risk one of their brain-dead MCSE's releasing a song with the wrong setting? Hell no. They're all going to be set to the least common denominator - in this case, 3. Microsoft's system, by allowing this "flexibility", simply means that it's going to be set to maximum restrictions.

      Remember, the RIAA wants a higher per-price song than iTunes $.99. Remember, their ultimate goal is to have you pay them every single time you listen to a song. Every time your song-based cell phone ringtone goes off? Another charge. This has been clearly documented in trade press for years now. These people are not in the business of setting what we would consider reasonable limits on digital music. That's why they're selling "Compact Discs" that can't carry the Compact Disc logo due to the anti-piracy nonsensical crap being used (that prevents them from being sold in a wide variety of players).

      They sell crap, they realize they sell crap, and they are in the business of justifying their highly-paid position by screwing as many people out of as much money as possible, so that they can continue to sell crap which almost nobody wants yet they still manage to make money on (due to all the screwing going on).

      The previous posters have covered your lack of knowledge of how FairPlay works quite well, so I won't even go into that quagmire of ignorance.

      But what I will say is this: I just spent >$200 at iTMS this weekend. I have spent the past couple days spending some free time burning each album to a CD-RW, importing the CD-RW tracks as 256K CBR MP3s, then erasing the CD-RW and starting over. I have 2 albums left to burn, and in the time it took me to write this, another one has gone through the burn/import/erase process - so it's not exactly a time sink, I just don't have much spare time (my Slashdot history can attest to my lack of posts).

      I don't share the MP3s with anyone, I don't burn CDs for friends, I don't do crap to violate copyright - the system allows me to do this transcoding, so I do it to alleviate any possible DRM-related headaches, both now and down the road.

    18. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Ancient+Devices+King · · Score: 1

      And the same goes for iTunes burned music, so what's your point?

      --
      -"It seems like you're trying to exploit a security hole. Would you like help?"
    19. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Both flawed because both systems depend on checking in with a central authority.

      If the limit is set on 5 burns for the WMA, after 5 times you can't burn it to CD anymore. The counter is not set in the file itself (if it is, it's anecdotal), the counter is set on the server your WMA burner talks to before burning to CD.

      iTunes checks in with the central authority each time you try to access the file on a computer for the first time. Only 3 computers can be authorized, via the central server, to play any one file. You will have to deauthorize one of those 3 if you want to play on another system - and the deauthorization is done ON the authorized computer itself. The Burn-10-times limitation has nothing to do with the central authority, it is set by the iTunes software.

      Listen, I don't know why people are arguing WMA vs. M4P - they're both DRM and you should be burning all your DRM tracks to CD then importing them as MP3s. Voila, no DRM problems, no device interoperability problems either, at least until Microsoft releases their digital audio player - which will, of course, only play WMA tracks.

      Remember, Not Invented Here is not just a rule at Microsoft, it's a law.

    20. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Jad+LaFields · · Score: 1

      Also those of us who think that iPods are really expensive. "Oooh, but its all shiny and small, look at that!" Shit, I don't care, as there are plenty of other more utilitarian-looking players with similar features going for sometimes over $100 less.

      On the cross-platform compatibility side, I do feel that if any DRMed music format will eventually be playable natively on Linux, then it will be Apple's offering. Microsoft ain't ever going to go near their growing competitor, and Real is shit.

      --
      [SIG] It's like putting a moose in the blender -- a recipe for disaster!
    21. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Durandal64 · · Score: 4, Informative
      The Apple camp exists in a silo, as usual. Music purchased at the iTunes Music Store is only playable in iTunes, and only natively transfers to an iPod family portible.
      iTunes Music Service M4P's will play in any application that can play QuickTime files. Maybe you should email the WinAmp developers and tell them to use the QuickTime API instead of pissing and moaning about how no apps besides iTunes support them (oh, except for VLC, but you were too busy complaining to research that). What do you want Apple to do? Write 4 other MP3 players? They've given Windows developers the tools to do it.
    22. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by SamNmaX · · Score: 0
      PlayFair/iTunes allows burning of the same playlist to a CD up to 10 times without modification, and rearranging tracks or tacking on a 1-second silent track counts as modifying and entitles you to another 10 burns. There is no reasonable way you should ever run up against that limit in anything resembling normal use, it seems to me.

      A limit of 10 copies may be adequate for the not-to-distance future. But if you really want to have a collection of music that you are going to play 10+ years from now... things get trickier. You may be moving the music between newer computers, between newer mp3 players, etc. You will eventually run out, and will be stuck.

      The other possibility is that because you are worried about using the 10 times, you will avoid doing anything to affect the limit unless absolutely necessary.

      Now, I'm ignoring the fact that DRM is rarely rock-solid, and people have already cracked the current version of PlayFair. For me, being able to get an unencrypted version of the music is a prerequest for me buying it, whether it starts that way or I use some other program. If there were some sort of absolute DRM of this variety, be ready to give up your purchased music.

      I realize this type of comment is made all the time, but I am still very suprised at how so many people on Slashdot seem to be so open to DRM, when it prevents so many of the interesting uses of things you have purchased. Apple's DRM isn't all that much 'better' than other's. Can you play your iTunes music on your non-iPod MP3 player without someone getting around the DRM? Can you play the music on your computer with a non-apple player? Can you play it in an OS that isn't made be Apple or Microsoft?

    23. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      For that matter... Windows Media Player has an API that would allow other applications to play back DRM'ed WMA files.

    24. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Fuzzle · · Score: 2, Informative

      Audiolunchbox offers non-DRM mp3s or OGG. It's mostly independent music though.

    25. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by dgatwood · · Score: 1
      I think they mean that the artists get their cut from the record company. And actually, this is wrong. The credit card company geta a small cut, too, as with any transaction conducted via credit card. :-) I know, I know... picking nits....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    26. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by jimmyharris · · Score: 4, Informative

      Microsoft is only entering the game as a software provider? No Microsoft music store? Did you think Microsoft could really resist leaving any pie untouched?

      http://news.com.com/2100-1027-5176411.html

      Microsoft said Friday that the second half of the year will see the launch of its online music store, a long-expected entry into an increasingly crowded business dominated by Apple Computer's iTunes.

      The software giant this week began offering sneak peaks of the service to independent record labels at the South by Southwest trade show in Austin, Texas. Though Microsoft remains mum about specific details, this week's dog and pony show signals the company's heightened ambitions to enter the world of online music sales with a bang.

    27. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by allgood2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Really, how much can you respect a group of people who state their primary purpose is to support the artist, but advocate downloading songs and sending artist a dime or more for their efforts. Downhillbattle is a silly protest group, who hasn't decided who they should protest.

      If you want to support independent artist at least get your stats from the Future of Music Coalition--independent artist who support and organize independent artist. You'll actually see muscians who want to stay independent, who aren't seeking the Big 5 for a quick fame, but working hard and living off their music. Go visit http://www.futureofmusic.org/

    28. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't want to be offensive, but you should read and understand the posts before you reply to them (specially if you are going to quote them).

      The 10-copy limit applies only to burning a playlist to CD. And, as the other posted said, once you reach that limit, it is trivial to restart the counter (by rearranging or recreating the playlist).

      So, in practice, the 10-copy limit is irrelevant to the regular end user. It's only intended to slow down the pirates who want to burn dozens of copies of the same list.

    29. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by laird · · Score: 2, Informative

      "While you're happy to have the choice made for you now, that might not be the case in the future. Could be tricky moving your entire music collection over to another format."

      For iTMS, converting to another format is quite easy -- burn to CD (or virtual CD) and RIP into other format.

      Yes, converting between lossy formats does cost you some sound quality, but:

      - you can't hear it under normal listening conditions, and
      - there are hacks that let you strip the DRM and leave music in AAC, and

    30. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by kylemonger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Everyone should keep in mind that what Apple says right now might not be what Apple says in the future. The rules may change and the changes can apply retroactively to music you've already purchased. If you're prudent, you will immediately burn any music you download from the iTunes music store to non-DRMed media and hang on to that copy.

    31. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Phil1 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      For iTMS, converting to another format is quite easy -- burn to CD (or virtual CD) and RIP into other format.

      Not very practical if you've got thousands of songs in your collection...

      --
      I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
    32. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Durandal64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah ... on Windows. QuickTime is equally capable on both Mac OS X and Windows.

    33. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (snip)
      --
      I know more programming languages than I do girls my age.
      ---
      Yes, i think the cause of that particular problem is rather obvious.

    34. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by dr.badass · · Score: 4, Informative

      Once it's on an ISO CD format, it's fair game. Just make a binary copy of that CD as many times as you want.

      Sure, you can do the same thing with CDs made from iTunes, except you don't need to.

      I consider it a point against WMA-based services that you need additional 3rd-party software to do something that iTunes has no problem with in the first place.

      --
      Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
    35. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Informative
      You have it wrong. The 10 limit is only on burning a playlist to CD. You can move your songs from computer to computer an unlimited number of times. It's just that you are limited to having your music authorised to play on three computers at any one time. Equally you can replace or update your iPod as many times as you like - it's just that an iPod will be tied to just one computer at any one time. You don't ever "run out" in either scenario.

      Can you play your iTunes music on your non-iPod MP3 player without someone getting around the DRM? Can you play the music on your computer with a non-apple player? Can you play it in an OS that isn't made be Apple or Microsoft?

      If your music isn't an iPod, or your OS isn't a Mac or Windows, then iTunes isn't aimed at you. It's also not aimed at you if you aren't American (so far). That means that I, (like you?) can't use it. That doesn't mean it's bad for the people that can.

    36. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by tbone1 · · Score: 1
      Has any business ever been able to raise a wholesale price against Wal*Mart?

      The IRS and the mafia ... which is tantamount to the same thing, come to think of it.

      --

      The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
    37. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Darren+Winsper · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You have a good point there, but I would go further. DRMed WMA files are only playable on Windows and certain portable devices. M4P is playable on MacOS X and Windows using Quicktime (and its API), plus there's implementations available for Linux, not to mention a certain 10K C# program to decrypt them for you ;)

    38. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Darren+Winsper · · Score: 1

      "there are hacks that let you strip the DRM and leave music in AAC"
      Not if Apple have their wicked way.

    39. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Spencerian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft has the financial leverage to stick this out. They'll need it.

      No other company has understood that Apple's success comes from the successful and uncomplicated integration of a good, simple audio player with an application with a simple interface for getting and playing your songs.

      Other players may be cheaper, but their interfaces suck or place many restrictions. Consistency is the hobgoblin of the PC industry, which should not be confused with compatibility. Given that, there are gazillons of players and software products for the PC, and that factions the market just like the personal computer boon had dozens of different, but incompatible, types of personal computers.

      People don't want to learn yet another way to play their music. The experience of getting, burning, and playing songs with iTunes is virtually the same on both Mac and Windows. No other music product can make that claim.

      Like the personal computer boon, the market will clear out, leaving one dominant and secondary way to do things. I expect Apple to remain there if they continue to evolve the iPod and iTunes without increasing the price.

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    40. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Wylfing · · Score: 1
      Really, going the Microsoft route for your DRMed music collection seems like the best answer to me, because you can then shop arround for the best price on single-track buys, and often find the hot songs for 79 or 88 cents. Who says the price of legal music downloads is going up?

      WMA is definitely not the "best answer" because you never get to own your songs. You only rent them for as long as you keep up your subscription. Stop subscribing and your whole collection goes away. Burning to CD is no defense against this. And let's not forget that Micros~1 has a solid history of fucking with formats as a lever to make you buy something from them -- e.g., your subscription service requires you to upgrade to WMP 11, which of course is available only with Longhorn SP2. Don't want to upgrade? Oh, then you won't mind losing all of your songs.

      --
      Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
    41. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Sigh*
      I see this 10 CD limit per playlist is mentioned way too often. For normal use, chances are you are not going to burn 10 CDs with the same playlist. If you see that you need more than 10 CD's with the same playlist, burn one CD. Make duplicates of the CD and keep your 9 CD limit intact.

    42. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>Can you play your iTunes music on your non-iPod
      >>MP3 player without someone getting around the DRM?

      Um, no, not exactly. iTMS's files are AAC, from mpeg-4 codec, which means that it's not compatible with MP3 players, unless those players are also MP4 players. Idiot!

      Of course, you can convert your iTMS songs (the ones you bought & downloaded) to mp3 via burning to disc and then re-encoding as mp3. For your MP4 songs that you encode yourself, you can do a conversion, or just reencode from the originals. Or wait, did you download those? and now you don't have access to the original disc?

      But to answer your question, yeah, you have to get around the DRM. That someone you asked about is yourself, if you use iTunes.

    43. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Oh-es-eX · · Score: 0

      Cool, at least somebody with brains today on this site!!! Because the rest of the hardware comps are shaking in their boots to make a deal other than with the richest brain dead ^H^H^H^H company in IT, why should APPLE support these other comercial standards? The hardware comps can also choose AAC, why pay a license to these bastards while you can follow the real leader in IT vision. whistle whistle whistle

    44. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by danielsfca2 · · Score: 1

      > importing the CD-RW tracks as 256K CBR MP3s,

      I'm kind of confused about why you chose to (A) transcode into a different format and (B) waste twice as much space as necessary.

      I followed the same route as you did; however, since the source was 128K AAC, I imported them back as 128K AAC's. No loss of quality was detected. The music sounds exactly as good as it did before, and takes up the same amount of space instead of double.

      The reason you would choose MP3 over AAC, I guess, might be related to the OOOH! CHEAP!"-appeal of shoddy, WMA/MP3-only portable players. (For that, I can only say, suit yourself.) Presumably, then, you chose to use the much higher bitrate to avoid incurring even more degradation in sound quality due to encoding at 128K MP3. Am I on target?

    45. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it appears to be only limited by your horrible taste in music.

    46. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by waynelorentz · · Score: 1

      One group is currently trying to fighting Wal-mart -- the toy companies.
      Wal-mart is putting traditional toy stores, and even chains like FAO Schwartz and Toys-R-Us out of business. The toy companies cannot legally charge Wal-mart more than other stores, so instead they're limiting the quantity of certain popular toys tha are shipped to Wal-mart, and shipping some of them later so the real toy stores have a chance to get some customers. It's about all they can legally do.

    47. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by laird · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, when there's a will, there's a way. You can use QTConvert to batch convert between any two known QuickTime formats, including from Protected AAC to AAC, Ogg Vorbis, etc. And it comes with scripts that run from within iTunes so that you can select tracks within iTunes and convert them.

    48. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by SamNmaX · · Score: 1
      Um, no, not exactly. iTMS's files are AAC, from mpeg-4 codec, which means that it's not compatible with MP3 players, unless those players are also MP4 players. Idiot!

      NO SHIT! Well, you see, I happen to have a non-Apple MP3 player that can play AAC. So, in order to play it without losing quality I have to do various tricks.

      Of course, you can convert your iTMS songs (the ones you bought & downloaded) to mp3 via burning to disc and then re-encoding as mp3.

      So, in order to use all these songs that you've purchased into a portable format, you have to burn them then rip them, which is both a pain in the ass and basically a manner of getting around the DRM. My argument was if you can't get through the DRM but still have the kinds of limitations that DRM often imposes, you will eventually run into walls due to it.

    49. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Absolutely right. Apple just ruthlessly changed the number of computers you can play your iTMS songs on from 3 to 5.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    50. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by log0n · · Score: 1

      The format here doesn't matter. If you have a 128K lossy source, then convert again from that 128K lossy source to a new 128K lossy file, the amount of precision in the new encode can do nothing but drop. Making the new import bitrate higher than the original is a good way of ensuring you don't inadvertantly lose quality simply because bitrates are set too low.

      It's not a digital (1::1) copy. It's (in a manner of speaking) an analog copy, and recording to a higher quality medium ensures that nearly nothing is lost in the process.

    51. Re:Microsoft offering a competitive environment? by Durandal64 · · Score: 1

      Well, not any more. The new version of iTunes has broken PlayFair.

  9. CD Baby - the word from the backend by linuxbaby · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I run (and am still the sole programmer for) CD Baby - one of the companies that is supplying a huge amount of music to all of these big legal download music services. Our digital catalog of independent music is even bigger than than the entire Universal Music Group record labels', combined. (Over 230,000 songs now, and adding about 75 new albums a DAY.)

    Since the first two Slashdot stories about CD Baby getting independent music into Apple iTunes (see iTunes Indie Meeting Notes and Sell Your Music on iTunes Music Store) - things are starting to standardize.

    It's actually really interesting watching this happen, from a tech point of view. These big companies appear to have their stuff together from the outside, but I've had quite a few conversations where the techies at the big giant download music service are asking us, Uh... what do you recommend? How are the other companies doing it? Others say things like, This is how Universal Music sent us their catalog - so can you just imitate that? And voila! Watching new standards form.

    I get the feeling that immediately after the initial announcement of Apple iTunes, and their 1-million downloads, lots of companies felt they just had to jump in as fast as possible, without any time to think out the long-term strategy. That's part of the reason why they're so incompatible. No time to communicate with others. (And plenty of paranoia about revealing their plans, I'm sure.) Things are settling and standardizing now, though.

    Anyway, as you can tell I'm a very open guy, and this summer I'm going to take the time to do some detailed technical write-ups of all the things that go on behind the scenes (including our cool 40-terabyte digital audio warehouse). It's pretty interesting stuff.

    (For details of what we do, see the CD Baby Digital Distribution page. Tell any good artists you know who want to get their music onto these services!)

    --
    Derek Sivers, CD Baby

    1. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by linuxbaby · · Score: 5, Informative
      P.S. As of now, these are the different formats for which we have to convert every song - in delivering to the various download music services:
      • WMA9 - 192k
      • WMA9 - 160k
      • WMA9 - 128k
      • WMA9 - 96k
      • WMA9 - 32k
      • WMA9 - 20k mono
      • AAC - 128k
      • AAC - 256k
      • MP3 - hifi VBR (lame -preset standard)
      • MP3 - 128k
      • Ogg Vorbis - q6
      • FLAC
      In-house we use FLAC to store everything, then have shell scripts to de-code those FLACs to WAV files to convert to the various other formats.
    2. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by MikeXpop · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just out of curiosity, who gives out 256K AAC?

      --
      Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
    3. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by Reverberant · · Score: 2, Interesting
      P.S. As of now, these are the different formats for which we have to convert every song - in delivering to the various download music services:

      Could you share your impressions about the sound quality of the various formats?

    4. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who uses the Ogg Vorbis? Tasty, high quality & DRM free - where do I sign up?

    5. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 1

      This is off-topic, but I was surprised to see that the guy who runs CD Baby would happen to be on SlashDot.

      Congratulations for managing such a great store. I've bought from you guys before and it was a great experience. I managed to get a rare album at a bargain price, and got good service into the bargain.

      Keep up the good work!

    6. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by elykyllek · · Score: 1

      AudioLunchbox - drm free ogg's and mp3's.

    7. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by Josh+Coalson · · Score: 1
      In-house we use FLAC to store everything, then have shell scripts to de-code those FLACs to WAV files to convert to the various other formats.

      There was an editorial in Macworld recently pushing for FLAC support in iTunes:

      http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/

      Maybe you guys can lend some more "oomph" and possibly widen or open up another revenue stream? You could supply raw FLACs, Apple could wrap then in FairPlay and write a QT component for it, and sell lossless versions at a premium.

    8. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by linuxbaby · · Score: 3, Informative
      Just out of curiosity, who gives out 256K AAC?
      Rhapsody doesn't distribute it but does use it as their in-house archive format for future transcoding.
    9. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by linuxbaby · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Could you share your impressions about the sound quality of the various formats?
      Sorry I wish I could (I went combing the net for hours for that kind of information) - but I'm just not the audiophile listening-test kinda guy. Everything over 160k bitrate sounds good in my headphones.

      Personally I only listen to FLAC, since I'm here with the terabytes of audio and gigabit ethernet. :-)

    10. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by iMacGuy · · Score: 1

      I have two questions: * Do you use Apple's AAC encoder for both of the AAC styles or only the one going to iTMS? * Have you seen hydrogenaudio.org's listening tests, especially the last multiformat test here? http://rjamorim.com/test/128extension/results.html

      --
      Why won't slashdot let me change my terrible username :(
    11. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by linuxbaby · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Do you use Apple's AAC encoder for both of the AAC styles or only the one going to iTMS?
      We only use iTunes to encode the AAC128 for Apple iTMS. For the AAC256 we use the AAC encoder from Coding Technologies because it runs on FreeBSD. We have 25 FreeBSD boxes for encoding (and storage, mainly. 1.3TB each) but only 3 Macs.

      Have you seen hydrogenaudio.org's listening tests , especially the last multiformat test?
      Yep. But again, for when we need MP3, I still think lame (on our FreeBSD boxes) is the best choice.
    12. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by TMB · · Score: 1

      Heheh... well, with all of those terabytes of audio, do you ever just put the entire database on shuffle? :-)=

      [TMB]

    13. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      So that's nobody, right?

      Then don't include it!!

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    14. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just curious. What format/bitrate does Apple store their music in?

    15. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by Oh-es-eX · · Score: 0

      This makes me choose AAC; Artst: Tiamat Album: A Deeper Kind Of Slumber Track: 01 Submitted by: treech rock/metal riffs Results: AAC wins, MPC and WMA tied at second. Lame and Vorbis tied at third, Blade is last.

    16. Re:CD Baby - the word from the backend by linuxbaby · · Score: 1

      AAC 128k (same as they sell in iTunes Music Store)

  10. Single format by antic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Will they get their single format? Every provider will have their own format/agenda to push. Some will want DRM, others will have alternatives, users will want more freedom, geeks will want the freedom plus more freedom, etc.

    And I still don't see people paying for it all. I haven't bought a CD in 5 years. Most people I know went through their big CD-buying years in their late teens, and most of these people don't have the credit cards required to buy up big at online music stores. Sure, I'd bet that stores have features allowing parents and relatives to set up accounts with $50 to splurge on music as a gift, but that's still not a way for kids to easily take their cash from flipping burgers and spend it impulsively on music.

    Are (m)any artists releasing MP3-laden CDs to physical music stores and selling them there?

    Are the RIAA looking anything BUT greedy when they take away the physical cost of producing an actual CD and liner-notes, and then want to increase the price of a music track online?

    Or maybe it's all in the marketing. I work online day in and day out, and I've never even considered buying music online. I just do without. My girlfriend listens to a lot of new/pop music as it comes out, and the first thing she'll say to me with regard to it is something like "Hey, can you download x for me?". The marketing of online music sales must be at a pretty low level on radio stations and television (zilch in Australia).

    --
    'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
    1. Re:Single format by LostCluster · · Score: 0

      Real, issuer of the weakest format of the three DRM systems, has already waived the white flag and was looking for a compatiblity truce with Apple. Apple wasn't buying though...

      Maybe Real should join the rest of the non-Apple world over in the WMA camp.

    2. Re:Single format by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't bought a CD in 5 years.

      Then you aren't in the target market. Period. Of course it won't make sense to you -- they're selling something you don't want.

      Most people I know went through their big CD-buying years in their late teens, and most of these people don't have the credit cards required to buy up big at online music stores.

      Newsflash : There are people in their late teens right now! Just because you got old doesn't mean that nobody came to take your place. Today's teens *do* have credit cards and *do* spend an alarming amount of money with them, online and off.

      The marketing of online music sales must be at a pretty low level on radio stations and television (zilch in Australia).

      You live in Austrailia? Well no fucking wonder. You can't buy anything from these music stores anyway!

  11. $2500 in pepsi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    + 4 years +/- 2 years to compund interest approx =$3028 at 3.25% interest. student loans hard at work. unless of course there is a trust fund involved.

  12. Re:First "Crapple Sucks" Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    interesting, my windows box was fine...

  13. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by per11 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The DRM in the iTMS files is acutally very limited. You can share the music on a few computers, copy it to your iPod, and even burn to a standard audio CD. It only prevents you from sharing it with a bunch of people you don't know.

  14. i just... by ambienceman · · Score: 0

    cant wait until the customers knock this down to the point of there being open, Audiogalaxy like interfaces to buying the music. Making the online stores compatible with every browser and having almost any song, at a decent price, available at-will will be something to shake a stick at. No DRM either...not even Apple's generous Playfair. I want exactly what I get out of ripping a cd. That kind of portability and mobility.

  15. and lacking... by dj245 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The most interesting quote in the article is from a record executive stressing that the industry is quietly hoping that the online music stores will start selling songs in compatible formats.

    and The most interesting quote NOT in the article is from Steve Jobs stressing that he can't possibly make money if the record industry jacks the prices to $2.50/song and bundles crappy songs with good songs, and is quietly scheming to force the music stores to do.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:and lacking... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and The most interesting quote NOT in the article is from Steve Jobs stressing that he can't possibly make money if the record industry jacks the prices to $2.50/song and bundles crappy songs with good songs, and is quietly scheming to force the music stores to do.

      The thing is, Apple's not the only front. The RIAA would also have to convince Napster 2.0, BuyMusic, and Wal*Mart to do the same...

      Wa-wa-wa-Wal*Mart? We're talking about one of the biggest physical CD retailers in the nation. Wal*Mart's well-known for their tendancy to squeeze suppliers and drop ones who don't bend to their demands. So, this could get very interesting if they decide to throw their weight around.

  16. Slashdot Hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    its OK and ontopic (according to the moderators) to trash Microsoft and their software in an Apple story, but when it comes to cricizing Apple, its a no-no.

    How is this for censorship and hypocrisy?

    1. Re:Slashdot Hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you think slashdotters are bad about propping up linux arguments, the slashintosh lurkers with mod points are even worse...

    2. Re:Slashdot Hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gosh, it's no worse than the mindless pro-MS trolls who say absolutely ridiculous things like "XP Home doesn't cost $1000" and "No, Microsoft Office does not sterilize you." They say the craziest things, you know? And they're all over Slashdot! So us Linux guys have to balance those guys out by saying stuff that's just as crazy.

  17. Not a proper tabulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Looking at the comparison table, it isn't fair to list Rhapsody in there, with Rhapsody being a streaming service and almost every other player in there is a download service. Interesting to note that , RealPlayer music store is listed in there too and has a pretty good download number for something that opened just one-two months back.

    Rhapsody with a user base of 489,000 is doing pretty good I beleive with each user paying $10 / month . Thats like 4.89 million. Apple is way ahead in the competition with almost double the users compared to its successor.

    1. Re:Not a proper tabulation by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Looking at the comparison table, it isn't fair to list Rhapsody in there, with Rhapsody being a streaming service and almost every other player in there is a download service. Interesting to note that , RealPlayer music store is listed in there too and has a pretty good download number for something that opened just one-two months back.

      Napster, by that logic, is double-dipping because they offer both a 99-cent download-and-keep service, and a $9.99 a month stream-but-don't-keep service.

      You're right, the chart is not exactly apples-to-apples comparing... Rhapsody and Napster are offering a different service model altogether compared to the other stores, even though their owners are also keeping their toes in the store model just in case.

    2. Re:Not a proper tabulation by nolife · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Rhapsody IS a different but you can still "buy" songs from the service for 0.79 and burn it to CD.

      I think it is the best of both worlds. You get unlimited streaming of over 600k* songs (according to their web page). You can search for artists, songs, albums, etc and pick exactly what you want with pause, replay, ff rew etc.., or use the preconfigured radio stations and create your own genre of radio stations and just let it play. While the radio service is going, you can skip to the next song so you are not forced to listen to something you do not like either. The service is very good overall. You can login to the service from any *Windows* computer to use it. The downside is only one active connection per login so the kids and I sometimes end up booting each other off. My typical use of the system is split 50/50 between the radio streaming and directly selecting music I want to hear. If I hear something I like and want to own, I have a tendency to jump over to Amazon or similar and look for it used as I have not done the burn option in Rhapsody yet. I was surprised to find artists from CdBaby on Rhapsody and have bought cd's directly from there also.

      Not specific to Rhapsody but I currently have one of my computers attached to my Yamaha home stereo via the S/PDIF digital output from my SBLive using the KX drivers (not really required but much better then the drivers from SB) and it sounds very good as far as a compressed music file goes. My own midi files sound much better though ;)

      * of the 600k claimed, some are not burnable and some are not manually selectable but the total 600k is streamable via the radio function.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    3. Re:Not a proper tabulation by boijames · · Score: 1

      MusicNow offers *both*. Download, and streaming, with no bias towards either. And they've been around the longest. They just need an advertising budget. :-)

  18. Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    None of the RIAA-approved DRM systems right now plays ball on Linux, period. I know most people who drink the GNU/Kool-Aid absolutely hate DRM because all content should be free, but that just ain't happening any time soon...

    So, while Linux tries to capture the desktop environment, this is one piece of technology that is popular on the Windows and even Macintosh platforms, but just simply isn't on Linux. Open Source projects just aren't going to fit the bill here, somebody needs to convince the DRM people that they'll be safe in writing decoders for Linux.

    Is there any way that a DRM-compliant music player could survive in the Linux world without risking being captured in the unencrypted digtal form... or is this something Linux just will never be able to do?

    1. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      Maybe the solution is to give users unecrypted un drmed music, ala eMusic? The RIAA needs to face the fact that DRM is not going stop illegal downloading. Giving your customers what they want will attract people from kazaa and emule.

    2. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe the solution is to give users unecrypted un drmed music, ala eMusic? The RIAA needs to face the fact that DRM is not going stop illegal downloading. Giving your customers what they want will attract people from kazaa and emule.

      "What they want" is music for nothing. That isn't gonna happen. There's no way you'll get people off of kazaa and emule as long as they still are allowed to operate, which is why the effort is to shut them down.

    3. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by DaHat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The RIAA needs to face the fact that DRM is not going stop illegal downloading. Giving your customers what they want will attract people from kazaa and emule.

      Locking the doors on my car will not prevent someone from breaking in and stealing it's contents, nor the car it's self. Does that mean I should stop locking my doors and even keep the windows down to make it easier for the potential thief? NO!

      By keeping my vehicle as secure as I can, I limit the number of people willing and able to steal it or it's contents. The RIAA is no different. DRM isn't intended to force EVERYONE to buy legit copies of music, the goal is to make piracy so hard that there is less and less incentive in doing so.

      Example: DirecTV piracy, the new generation of access cards (P4's I believe) are damned evil, so evil they have a built in sucicide system that if it thinks you're trying to hack it... it wipes it's self clean. With a proper hardware and money, a person could reverse engineer the system, discover it's deepest darkest secrets and possibly build a piracy system around it... but because it's looking to be that difficult to hack (at this time (with out insider info)), the days of simply reprogramming a DirecTV access card are quickly coming to an end.

    4. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Songs don't belong to the record companies. Sound recording copyrights may, but that's not the same thing.

      The copyrights must one day expire. When they do, the works and all copies thereof will be in full public domain. Getting the work into circulation and into places where the public can copy it is what the temporary copyright carrot is all about.

      Is DRM going to expire? Or will it still be there, acting as a lock to cheat the public domain?

    5. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's only one way for music commerce to be available to Linux users. It's a two-step process.

      1. There must be a significant number of Linux users. There aren't. The various roadblocks associated with this are left for another discussion.

      2. Linux users must restrain themselves. If the vendors see Linux users as a hostile environment, they're not going to ship their products on that platform, no matter what the market mass is. That means no reverse engineering, no hacking, no "just to see if I could," no "it's fair use, dammit!" No more moving projects off-shore to try to hide their obvious criminal nature. (If you want the law changed, lobby Congress.)

      Until both of these things happen, forget it.

      --

      I write in my journal
    6. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by idiot900 · · Score: 1

      I know most people who drink the GNU/Kool-Aid absolutely hate DRM because all content should be free, but that just ain't happening any time soon...

      No. I absolutely hate DRM because a) my computer should do what I tell it to and not be subject to the arbitrary whims of a 3rd party, and b) DRM restricts my reasonable desire to listen to legally acquired music the way I want.

      I should be able to burn to CD 11 times a playlist I purchased, because I can use these 11 CDs in a legal manner. Instead the restriction is 10 or less (with iTunes). This would be a reasonable compromise, but the way it's enforced is by turning my own machine against me. This is a draconian solution, and the ability to listen to music whose owners favor this is not worth it to me. Companies should be paid for their product, but the price we pay for the DRM solution is fundamentally too high.

    7. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      Come on... if you can burn it once, you can make unlimited lossless digital copies. Just use a CD-copying tool instead of your music player to do it.

    8. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by idiot900 · · Score: 1

      Come on... if you can burn it once, you can make unlimited lossless digital copies. Just use a CD-copying tool instead of your music player to do it.

      That's not the point. I and probably any respectable slashdotter could easily defeat the DRM in various ways. The hoop shouldn't be there for me to jump through in the first place.

    9. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by wronskyMan · · Score: 1

      No more moving projects off-shore to try to hide their obvious criminal nature. (If you want the law changed, lobby Congress.)

      Other countries are other countries for a reason - they have different laws than us. Sorry to be pedantic, but if a project is not in violation of the law overseas, it is therefore not criminal there.

      --
      --- You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad- Neal (not Cowboy) Boortz
    10. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Rick+and+Roll · · Score: 1
      a) my computer should do what I tell it to and not be subject to the arbitrary whims of a 3rd party

      I absolutely agree 100%. If you give control of one thing to a third party, what's to start another?

      Microsoft would have everyone using DRM for all documents. If we keep DRM off most of our Linux boxen, and be vocal enough complainers, most decent businesspeople will realize that maybe it isn't such a good idea to send things DRM'ed. Then it will hopefully be kept to just media.

      If they can't penetrate every computer, then they won't have a total monopoly on it, and people using FOSS will still be able to conduct business.

    11. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Rick+and+Roll · · Score: 1
      You seem to be a reasonable person, who is trying to reason with the RIAA. Not going to happen.

      This one rational thought could be used to explain the main problem with the {MP|RI}AA. They are just a bunch of greedy bastards, that want to have as big of an organization as they can have, because it means bigger paychecks. If they were reasonable people, and really looking out for their businesses, they would probably reach the same conclusion you do. But they are a bunch of filthy money-grubbing scum-whores.

      If they scaled back their campaign and sold un-DRMed, high-quality music on the Internet for a reasonable price, they would be making a hell of a lot more money. I know a lot of people (myself included) that are boycotting them for DRM, and really, no other reason. Those damn fools!

    12. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by DaHat · · Score: 1

      First up, please go back and reread my initial post, you'll see at no time to I even mention the word 'songs', instead I refer to buying legit copies of music, which is accurate.

      Now, to your ill thought out rant.

      Given recent extensions in copyright law... I would be less concerned that your great grand children having to break DRM to listen to one of great grandpa's ancient CD then I would be that the problem will come up for them at all, I'd much rather have myself or my children run into it.

      Thus, fighting extensions to copyright law should be your first target, once copyrights have been restored to their previous concept for temporary, then you can fight the good fight related to access to such public works.

      Your argument is like being afraid of a big rock falling from the sky and crushing your house, yea... it might happen and being prepared for it may not be a bad idea... but given the likelihood that it will occur, your energies would be better spent worry about other things, like earthquakes, floods and gangland violence (ie things which occur more often).

      If you want to pick a cause to fight for, be my guest, but please be in some way intelligent about it!

    13. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by nathanh · · Score: 1
      Linux users must restrain themselves. If the vendors see Linux users as a hostile environment, they're not going to ship their products on that platform, no matter what the market mass is. That means no reverse engineering,

      Reverse engineering is not illegal, it is not immoral, and it is not something to "restrain" from.

      How did the RIAA manage to convince all these people that "reverse engineering" and "fair play" is wrong?

      <disgust>Oh I know, the RIAA offered them toys and shiny things, and that's how the RIAA Youth was formed.</disgust>

    14. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Don't like it? Don't buy it.

      Seriously, the ONLY way to change companies is to hit them in the wallet.

      And it gives you the side benefit of not having to bitch about it on Slashdot.

      If you do want to buy it, then you made the choice, so bitch about your dumb decision to purchase DRMed music, not that it was DRMed, especially since there are alternatives.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    15. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1
      Problem is that DRM does not make it harder for the thief to steal your car. DRM in your analogy would mean requiring your customers to travel to NYC to pick up the car keys, even though you sell the cars in Miami. It would require the buyer to park his car in the DRM-approved garage every night, not where his house is. Certain groups of people (say members of a particular party) would not even be allowed to buy cars.

      Also there'd be unlocked, ready-to-drive cars standing around at every corner...

      DRM isn't intended to force EVERYONE to buy legit copies of music, the goal is to make piracy so hard that there is less and less incentive in doing so.

      Right, it might be intended to do this, but the argument is that it does the opposite. It's easier to illegally copy music than to buy it. And this is BECAUSE of DRM.

    16. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      Reverse engineering is sometimes illegal. And reverse engineering things that you want for your platform when the people who produced them do not want them reverse-engineered is just stupid. It's shooting yourself in the foot.

      How did the RIAA manage to convince all these people that "reverse engineering" and "fair play" is wrong?

      Yes, that's it. It's all a result of the RIAA/MPAA/corporate media evil propaganda machine. It's simply inconceivable that somebody might actually hold an opinion on this matter that is contrary to yours.

      --

      I write in my journal
    17. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by nathanh · · Score: 1
      Reverse engineering is sometimes illegal.

      Then you won't have any difficulty naming a single situation where it is illegal. If you say the word "contract" or "treason" then you lose.

      And reverse engineering things that you want for your platform when the people who produced them do not want them reverse-engineered is just stupid. It's shooting yourself in the foot.

      Pandering to the self-interest of a faceless corporation is stupid. Throwing away your rights to increase their profits is stupid. Exchanging your legal rights for the the short-term benefit of downloadable music is stupid.

      Using your paid-for equipment and your paid-for data as you see fit, in accordance with the laws of the land, is not stupid. The only truly stupid thing here is the person who says "hey, don't do what you're allowed to do, because Apple might go away". Tough titties. Apple can't buy the law with shiny toys unless you let them.

      Yes, that's it. It's all a result of the RIAA/MPAA/corporate media evil propaganda machine. It's simply inconceivable that somebody might actually hold an opinion on this matter that is contrary to yours.

      Don't be an ass.

    18. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      Then you won't have any difficulty naming a single situation where it is illegal.

      Reverse engineering of a content access control mechanism for any purpose other than interoperability is unlawful.

      Pandering to the self-interest of a faceless corporation is stupid.

      What's a faceless corporation? Every corporation is made up of individuals, individuals who work hard every day to provide for themselves and their families. The idea that you're not hurting anybody when you hurt a company is just silly.

      Using your paid-for equipment and your paid-for data as you see fit, in accordance with the laws of the land, is not stupid.

      It's stupid to, as the old saying goes, cut off your nose to spite your face. It's stupid to secure short-term gains at the cost of greater long-term gains. It's stupid to piss off companies who produce products you want to use by actively trying to undermine their business model. It's then doubly stupid to whine about how nobody's supporting your platform of choice afterwards.

      Don't be an ass.

      Hey, you started it, man. Try mulling over the notion that there might be smart people out there who think you're wrong on this. Try absorbing just the tiniest seed of doubt. Try considering for just a fraction of second that you might actually be mistaken.

      For god's sake, consider for just a moment that you might be mistaken.

      --

      I write in my journal
    19. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by nathanh · · Score: 1
      Yes, that's it. It's all a result of the RIAA/MPAA/corporate media evil propaganda machine. It's simply inconceivable that somebody might actually hold an opinion on this matter that is contrary to yours.

      Don't be an ass.

      Hey, you started it, man. Try mulling over the notion that there might be smart people out there who think you're wrong on this. Try considering for just a fraction of second that you might actually be mistaken. For god's sake, consider for just a moment that you might be mistaken.

      I didn't call you an ass because you disagreed with me.

      I called you an ass because you had no basis for your accusation.

      Now you have repeated the same accusation. So you're still an ass.

    20. Re:Will DRM and Linux ever be able to get along? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of the RIAA-approved DRM systems right now plays ball on Linux, period.

      funny how im listing to AAC trax right now with VLC on my gentoo box

      )-=deathstryke=-(

  19. Avid downloader gone legal by elinenbe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I used to download almost 5 full albums every week illegally and once itunes came out I started buying music. I become addicited to things, and I recall purchasing almost 15 albums from itunes in ONE day!

    Now, having to burn and re-rip songs to get them onto my flash based player and the increasing cost of albums (Dark Side Of The Moon is 16.99 for _9_ songs) what is my incentive to be legal anymore? It is currently less effort for me to get the album off of a kazaa then spending an hour to make nearly $20.

    --
    -eric
    1. Re:Avid downloader gone legal by Sporkinum · · Score: 1

      I got a bunch of Chris Isaak at a lan meet. (open shares) My wife liked it so much she bought the CD's. RIAA got screwed anyway as she bought them used on Amazon. $32 total for 6 CD's shipped to our house.

      I have bought tons of stuff from things I have heard after downloading them. But I always either buy directly from the artist's site, or buy used.

      The RIAA gets nothing from me.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
    2. Re:Avid downloader gone legal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, having to burn and re-rip songs to get them onto my flash based player

      Have you somehow missed all of the stories on Slashdot about PlayFair and DeDRMS? You don't have to burn and re-rip anymore.

      and the increasing cost of albums (Dark Side Of The Moon is 16.99 for _9_ songs)

      Blame the greedy copyright holder. Apple recommends prices, but does not dictate them.

  20. compatible formats... who cares by needacoolnickname · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Convert the file to mp3 and you can play it on any player. It was done before with CDs. How do you think all those mp3s end up on Kazzaa? If you want to move your music you are going to have to do some work. Sorry. Always been that way. Remember taping albums to listen to them in the new fangled walkman?

    Apple might have come out with the first big hit with iTunes, but there are always other that come along, make what was the shiznitz look lame. It will happen, maybe not today or tomorrow, but it will.

    Now Microsoft setting up camp with their DRM will be a doozie and might even kill online music sales. I am sure the RIAA is really really sad about that.

    Why not a neutral file format that all can use and enjoy - not locked into anything?

  21. Say what you want... by mfifer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...but iTunes gave me the outlet to do what I wanted to do: LEGALLY BUY MUSIC ONLINE.

    *NOW* we have options, but until iTMS, we DIDN'T.

    Thanks, Apple, for that at least.

    1. Re:Say what you want... by Fuzzle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was buying more music that I liked through eMusic for years before iTMS came along. What iTMS did was give the MASSES the music they wanted, in an easy to use interface. iTMS still doesn't have the majority of music I like, but it's still a great service.

  22. Bleep is my fave by Twid · · Score: 4, Informative

    My current favorite download service is Bleep

    http://www.warprecords.com/bleep/

    Great electronic stuff from guys like Squarepusher and Plaid in un-DRM'd 192k LAME-encoded mp3 goodness.

    I wish iTunes had a higher quality option. It's not that 160k AAC sounds bad, but if the download is all I get, I'd like a higher quality format to get at the same time.

    --
    - "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
    1. Re:Bleep is my fave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I like Digibag.com

      http://www.digibag.com

      Digibag.com serves House Music in both Mp3 and WAV formats. Each files comes in .zip compressed files and the delivery has always been very fast.

      If you are into House Music you must check this site out. They feature the top producers in the world and feature both released and unreleased material. They also sell Mp3 mixes for $9.99.

    2. Re:Bleep is my fave by Twid · · Score: 1

      bookmarked, thanks!

      --
      - "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
    3. Re:Bleep is my fave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like allofmp3. Whatever format and bit rate you want (up to and including 44.1Khz WAV, i.e. the raw CD rip), no DRM, all at 1 penny per MB.

      How can anyone compete with that?

    4. Re:Bleep is my fave by 11223 · · Score: 1

      Count me in for BeatPort, non-DRM 128kbit AAC from the likes of Global Underground.

    5. Re:Bleep is my fave by qwertme · · Score: 1

      1.35$ and 1.50$ a song is way to expensive

  23. Reading Business Articles by trip23 · · Score: 5, Funny

    can be a funny thing... Nowhere else you'll find a sucessfull and innovative company compared to a Soviet grocery store, like Real's CEO did. So as a linux-using Communist (in the words of Mr. Ballmer of MS-Fame) I now can buy music in a Soviet Grocery Store located in the USA. Did I miss anything in the Cold War?

  24. Maybe it's me by value_added · · Score: 5, Funny

    but reading the group manager of Windows digital media unit say:

    "They have spent an inordinate amount of money to generate awareness around their closed ecosystem. (But) as people get more sophisticated in this area they are going to be getting more frustrated with a closed ecosystem."

    gets me all choked up. Not in the "it brings tears to my eyes" kind of choked up, but the "the irony is so thick I think may I need a Heimlich maneuver" sort.

  25. as usual, allofMP3 by jonathan_95060 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... and other russian LEGAL services are conspicuously absent.

    1. Re:as usual, allofMP3 by MikeXpop · · Score: 1

      Legal in the sense of the word that using Russia's loose copyright laws as a loophole in order to get Americans to send them money for pirated songs.

      The artist gets squat, the label gets squat. allofmp3.com is nothing more than street piracy over the internet. It's no more legal to download from them than it is to download from p2p.

      --
      Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
    2. Re:as usual, allofMP3 by jonathan_95060 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      allofMP3 has been around for more than a year. It is inconceivable that RIAA in unaware of them...

      I challenge you to show me one instance of RIAA successfully procecuting someone for being a customer of allofMP3. Heck, forget the 'successful' part, just show me news of one case where RIAA is beating up on someone for buying and downloading music from allofmp3.com.

      I've googled high and low for this and I can't find a thing.

      Regarding your claim that "the artist gets squat": allofMP3 claims to be paying their R.O.M. licensing fees (similar to BMI fees paid to artists for radio broadcast). Perhaps they're lying but if not then the artists are being paid.

      Sure, artists are getting _less_ but hey, wecome to the wonderful world of offshoring! Offshoring isn't just for saving big companies money on tech job salaries -- it is for RIAA's intellectual property too. Big business loves a 'race to the bottom' when it benefits them but when the globalism shoe gets put on their I.P. foot then you cry 'foul, unfair' eh?

    3. Re:as usual, allofMP3 by MikeXpop · · Score: 1

      The RIAA hasn't prosecuted anyone for being a customer of allofmp3. I never said they did. I said it was "as legal as p2p". I stand by that statement. Show me an instance of the RIAA successfully procecuting someone for being a customer of p2p. You can't, because they haven't. They prosecute people who are distributers. They can't prosecute the distributers in the allofmp3 case because the people there are abiding to the laws in their country. It's a loophole.

      --
      Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
    4. Re:as usual, allofMP3 by isorox · · Score: 1

      Anyone got any authorative sources on the legality of this site (If they do indeed have a license from the RIA Russia, which seems likely, it's legal), and legality of using this site in various countries (Canada's legal for example)

    5. Re:as usual, allofMP3 by jonathan_95060 · · Score: 1

      > They can't prosecute the distributers in the
      > allofmp3 case because the people there are
      > abiding to the laws in their country.
      > It's a loophole.

      Right. Just like U.S. courts can't procecute Nike for violations of U.S. labor laws that occur in indonesian factories.

      Many a corporate fortune is based on so called loophole.

      You use the word loophole as if there is some moral component to corporations. Corporations have no morals, just an overriding concern for increasing shareholder value. If a corporation thinks will, in the end, increase share holder value then they will do it.

      it is a breath of fresh air to see a loophole that benefits the common man for a change rather than some billion dollar corporation. Don't worry though, I'm sure this situation will be rectified some time in the not too distant future.

  26. File formats...when will we learn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The most interesting quote in the article is from a record executive stressing that the industry is quietly hoping that the online music stores will start selling songs in compatible formats.
    Is the Microsoft model so compelling that every business major given the opportunity will turn to anti-consumer practices like using different file formats than everyone else? There is something slightly distressing about the need for companies to be different in ways that inconveniences consumers for no apparent reason than to be unique.

    Here's some food for thought (I understand that this is common and not just in b-school). I am a business major at UConn and my management professor insists upon keeping her test questions secrets outside of the classroom. If a student is caught distributing questions from past exams (and these are exams given through a web browser), they will be cited for academic dishonesty. The reason? These are supposedly valuable test questions that have been used over and over again and do not cause students to complain about unfair wording, etc. Now, I think the real reason is laziness combined with a disregard for the academic environment. She wants me to take time out of my schedule to review the test at her convenience because she doesn't want to do more work. There's a parallel to this article here.

    I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but this whole idea of proprietary information is simply being taken too far in our society. It is now common for people to grasp at any hint of value they see in their information, capitalize on it, and try to lock others out at the same time. They will then proceed to hoard this information for as long as they are capable. The real innovators in the business world will always have a place as they have value. For every one of them, there are ten parasites (Darl & Company?) who merely create an illusion of value but contribute nothing useful to society.

    Why have so many different file formats developed over the years? Perhaps a programmer can help me out here, but what would have been so difficult about making an open format that could handle anything you threw at it? For example, an open text file format that could be extensible to handle Word's change tracking and other features. These days with the proliferance of XML parsers, couldn't one write programs that would read/generate XML files, silently ignore unknown tags and would just work? I understand that the file formats associated with digital music are much more complex, but even considering the 'need' for DRM, where's the collaboration that makes businesses work more efficiently and offer enhanced value to the customer? It's very disappointing, and I can tell you that at least at this school, nobody even mentions a subset of this broad issue. It should be a required course in my opinion. Thanks for reading.
    1. Re:File formats...when will we learn? by Saeger · · Score: 3, Interesting
      this whole idea of proprietary information is simply being taken too far in our society.

      What else is a capitalistic economy based on physical scarcity of resources supposed to do when it doesn't really produce anything tangible anymore? Deal with the reality of information abundance? Nah - If you can't "own the intellectual property" then it has no "value", and we can't have that now can we.

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    2. Re:File formats...when will we learn? by cowscows · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's necessarily quite that sinister in this case. I think it's more about apple makes their store, then a bunch of other companies decide they need to open up something asap, and so everyone's just throwing together whatever they can to get things moving, and there's chaos as a result.

      The collaboration will start to happen as more and more of these companies realize that the system they jury-rigged together isn't going to cut it, and that they'll save money by working with someone else.

      Apple is the big question here though. Their system seems to be well thought out, seems to be working well, and they're feeling pretty secure with their exclusive ownership of it. Part of that's about keeping all the money for themselves, part of it is their belief in controlling the consistency of the experience. How that'll play out for them remains to be seen. Will it hold everything back? Will Apple just lose relevency? Do they have some other tricks up their sleeve? Should be interesting to watch.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    3. Re:File formats...when will we learn? by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 1

      The hell are you on about, chimp-boy?

    4. Re:File formats...when will we learn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a steel mill is capital. a fleet of delivery trucks is capital. information is not capital; but it is being hamfisted into that category anyway.

    5. Re:File formats...when will we learn? by mst76 · · Score: 1
      There is something slightly distressing about the need for companies to be different in ways that inconveniences consumers for no apparent reason than to be unique.
      [...]
      Why have so many different file formats developed over the years?
      As a business major, how can you be surprised by this? Making yourself unique (either real or imagined) is the way to get pricing power. Although the textbook examples of monopoly and perfect competition are the easiest to analyze, almost everything in the consumer market is traded in a market somewhere in between. The right question is not so much whether a company has competitors, but in what degree it can set prices. In perfect competition, a company has no pricing power: if the price is higher than marginal costs, another company will offer the same product for less. A monopolist has it all: it determines the profit maximizing price and customers can take it or leave it. Almost every company is in between and would love to be in a price setting position. Some ways to do this are by branding, offering higher quality or offering something proprietary (file formats). Note that to gain pricing power, it does not matter whether one is truely different or not, only the customer's perception matters (branding).

      Microsoft has quite some pricing power, but they do have competition (Linux/Unix, Mac, OpenOffice). Their profit maximizing prices are probably higher than their current prices. Likewise, Apple has some freedom in choosing the prices for the Macs, as they are perceived to be somewhat different from the commodity PC. But the difference is not enough to give them monopoly-like pricing power.
  27. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Useful to some, for sure, but useless for those among us who are trying to find ways of acquiring musical samples to "try out" various musical bands.

    That is called "radio". It is any medium in which you don't get direct control over what song plays next, and therefore can be exposed to music you haven't heard of yet.

    That's why that format of pushed-content pays less per song than any format that lets the user directly edit the playlist.

  28. More on compatible formats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The most interesting quote in the article is from a record executive stressing that the industry is quietly hoping that the online music stores will start selling songs in compatible formats.

    Why not strong arm the media playes to support more formats and let the fucking consumer decide?

  29. anniversary by 1u3hr · · Score: 0, Troll
    the upcoming one year anniversary of Apple's iTunes
    -1 redundant

    Have we come to the point, with "monthly anniversaries" and similar perverted uses, that the actual meaning of "anniversary" has to be explained?

    Oxford Dictionary: The yearly return of a noteworthy date... [L anniversarius returning yearly, f. annus year + versus turning + -arius -ARY1; used as n. in med.L anniversaria (sc. dies day), -arium (sc. festum feast); cf. (O)Fr. anniversaire.]

    1. Re:anniversary by RasputinAXP · · Score: 1

      Yet somehow I don't see an option to mod your post "-1, Pedantic."

    2. Re:anniversary by s20451 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I agree with the parent. Unfortunately, the meaning of "anniversary" has been perverted in the colloquial to mean "passage of an integer number of arbitrary time units". We can thank all the teenaged girls who want to celebrate their "three week anniversary" dating the captain of the football team until he dumps their sorry asses. There are few things that annoy me more than this usage.(*)

      (*)Things that annoy me more:

      (1) The interchangeable use of "their", "there", and "they're"; "your" and "you're", and "its" and "it's".

      (2) Not having been captain of the football team so that I could have had an unlimited supply of easy girls in high school.(**)

      (**) Then again, it is almost a universal rule that the people who were popular in high school ended up being losers, and the people who actually do interesting things were the nerds in high school. The problem of peaking too early.(***)

      (***)Mod away!

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    3. Re:anniversary by TheXRayStyle · · Score: 3, Insightful
      the upcoming one year anniversary of Apple's iTunes
      -1 redundant

      Have we come to the point, with "monthly anniversaries" and similar perverted uses, that the actual meaning of "anniversary" has to be explained?

      Oxford Dictionary: The yearly return of a noteworthy date... [L anniversarius returning yearly, f. annus year + versus turning + -arius -ARY1; used as n. in med.L anniversaria (sc. dies day), -arium (sc. festum feast); cf. (O)Fr. anniversaire.]

      By the definition you provide, "one year anniversary" is not redundant. A two year or three year anniversary still fits the definition--there's nothing wrong with clarifying that this is the first "yearly return of a noteworth date."
    4. Re:anniversary by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      By the definition you provide, "one year anniversary" is not redundant.

      I thought it unnecessary to explain further; but it's the "year" that's redundant, i.e. "the upcoming first anniversary" would be unambiguous as to the period.

    5. Re:anniversary by grepistan · · Score: 2, Informative

      True, but pedantic. Not everyone has an etymological dictionary with them all the time, and I suspect that most people wouldn't happen to know the roots as well as you do. Usage is a critical mass thing - once a certain expression or meaning becomes popular enough it becomes domninant...

      --
      Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
      -- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
    6. Re:anniversary by grepistan · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but usage rules! That's language users for you, always messing it up! We should do away with them altogether and just leave language as a weird, abstract artifact that isn't to be touched, like a museum piece!

      --
      Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
      -- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
    7. Re:anniversary by cyberbob2010 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      We can thank all the teenaged girls who want to celebrate their "three week anniversary" dating the captain of the football team until he dumps their sorry asses.

      Is somebody bitter?

      --
      We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
    8. Re:anniversary by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      True, but pedantic.

      That's almost a redundancy there. I suppose you mean: true, but I don't care.

      Not everyone has an etymological dictionary with them all the time, and I suspect that most people wouldn't happen to know the roots as well as you do.

      Though remembering "annus" = year, from primary school, I just cut and pasted it. Actually everyone does have access to an etymological dictionary ( for example). But that is just for those who find such background interesting, more important is simply the meaning of the word, which anyone using words professionally (e.g. those who publish online) should know.

      Usage is a critical mass thing - once a certain expression or meaning becomes popular enough it becomes domninant...

      I doubt this is popular enough yet to displace the real meaning. At least years are stil the default units. (This phrase wasn't in the referenced FA, just in the summary the submitter gave and blindly pasted by the "editors" here into the headline).

    9. Re:anniversary by 1u3hr · · Score: 0, Troll
      Yet somehow I don't see an option to mod your post "-1, Pedantic."

      Never mind, someone has modded it "troll", which will have the same effect.

    10. Re:anniversary by grepistan · · Score: 1

      No, stating that something is both true and pedantic is not in fact redundant, and it doesn't mean that I don't care. I use pedantic in its general sense of 'bothering about details which the speaker assumes most people would consider unimportant'. That is not to say that I consider them unimportant per se, but that I think many people do. And from a usage-based linguistic viewpoint, that is more important. I guess drawing that distinction is probably in itself pedantic. I believe this post should now be modded -1, meta-redundant...

      Not everyone has access to the web, all the time either. What I meant to say is that most people don't have access to an etymological dictionary 24/7. Also, they really don't care on the whole.

      You're right in saying that years are still the default units for anniversaries though, at least at this point. I think the general definition that a lot of speakers keep in their heads for 'anniversary' would be 'recurring date commemorating some event', which does imply yearly dates. But it doesn't have to; linguists call this a 'defeasible implication', which means that it can be cancelled by a conflicting modifier, as in "6-month anniversary" and the like. But by default, it does imply years.

      Thanks for an interesting linguistic discussion... always good to talk with someone who also thinks about these things!

      --
      Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
      -- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
    11. Re:anniversary by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to comment about the redundancy of the phrase, but I will correct the grammar. It should be "one-year anniversary" with a hyphen, since "one-year" is acting as an adjective and is not a predicate adjective.

    12. Re:anniversary by Paulrothrock · · Score: 1

      Monthly anniversary = luniversary.

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
  30. The biggest problem by truesaer · · Score: 4, Funny
    I haven't used iTunes much, based on my difficulty in finding the songs I wanted.


    I intended to download some songs from Evanescence. But I don't see any of their songs showing up in my searches! Next I tried Linking Park, but no luck there either. I did find "Ordinary World" by Duran Duran, so that was good. But then "P Control" by Prince doesn't show up...iTunes seems to have every song imaginable by Prince, but my favorite club song is not there. Next I tried Led Zeppelin, and they don't seem to have any of their songs either! They do have lots of Cranberries stuff, including things I haven't seen before so I could try those. And they have Moby tracks (although not any from Animal Rights. Which is good since that CD sucked). Finally, I decided to try for "I am the Walrus" by the Beatles. No dice there either, although I discovered that there are 6 covers of this song, including one with explicit lyrics (that shockingly I actually enjoyed the preview for)!


    So I liked iTMS overall, but they really need to get more songs in their catalog.

    1. Re:The biggest problem by FireBreathingDog · · Score: 5, Funny
      Next I tried Linking Park, but no luck there either.

      Maybe the problem isn't their selection...maybe it was your spelling.

      Linkin Park seems to work...

    2. Re:The biggest problem by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I thought that was a humor piece at first.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    3. Re:The biggest problem by TheBillGates · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      You fool haven't you read any tech news lately? Apple Records (the company founded by the Beatles that publishes Beatles songs) have a current lawsuit against Apple Computers. You will never see a Beatles son on iTunes music store by the Beatles until that lawsuit is settled.

      And it's not "Linking Park". Go back to your corner and put on the dunce cap.

    4. Re:The biggest problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The biggest problem is you horrible taste in music. God damn listen to something that isn't top 40.

    5. Re:The biggest problem by truesaer · · Score: 1
      Maybe the problem isn't their selection...maybe it was your spelling.


      Well, I spelled it right when I searched! Anyway, Linkin Park isn't in the iTMS. They have a track on a tour CD from three years ago, but thats not what I'm looking for.

    6. Re:The biggest problem by truesaer · · Score: 1
      You fool haven't you read any tech news lately? Apple Records (the company founded by the Beatles that publishes Beatles songs)


      I could care less about that. I just want the music. And anyway, doesn't Michael Jackson own the rights to a lot of the beatles songs?

    7. Re:The biggest problem by dthree · · Score: 1

      Publishing rights, not recordings. If someone wants to record a beatles song, they have to pay a royalty to jackson. So putting beatles recordings on iTunes is not jacksons decision at all.

      BTW, jackson merged his "publishing" buisness that owns the songs with a sony company, then took a collateral loan against it, so if he defaults on the loan, he will probably have to sell his interest in the joint publishing business to pay it off. Which would mean that sony would own the publishing rights solely.

      --
      "I forgot my mantra."
  31. There are customers outside US also by Uninen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fileformats are not the only key to success. I mean, where are all the big European online strores, for example? How many ITMS competitors sell outside US?

    I think there are lots of potential customers outside US just waiting the oppoturnity to spend their hard-earned money on good and legal music.

    1. Re:There are customers outside US also by grrrl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yeah! ;)

      im in australia and we get jipped on everything - we dont even have any online music stores - want to stop ppl sharing and downloading? offer them an alternative!

      id love to live in the us just so i *could* order things on line, or at least without $20 min shipping (and weeks of waiting)

      *pout*

    2. Re:There are customers outside US also by grepistan · · Score: 1

      wow, another 'Stralian. Thought I might be the only one around here...

      I actually buy quite a bit of stuff online, mosly from amazon and a few places in the UK. I actually find that many things are in fact cheaper even after you have factored in the postage costs. Especially if you buy a few things. The postage times vary between 10 and 21 days, in my experience.

      As for online music though, I just don't see the point. Buy CD, fire up LAME, relax! :) It's not like there is much new music of interest anyway.

      --
      Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
      -- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
    3. Re:There are customers outside US also by jimmyharris · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are at least two online music stores for Australians to use. http://bigpondmusic.com/home.asp and http://www.destramusic.com/.

      Sure, they are both Windows only (and they both suck), but they are there. Personally I use www.allofmp3.com in Russia. See today's Age newspaper for more details.

    4. Re:There are customers outside US also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Checkout Digibag.com

      http://www.digibag.com

      Digibag.com serves House Music in both Mp3 and WAV formats. Each files comes in .zip compressed files and the delivery has always been very fast.

      If you are into House Music you must check this site out. They feature the top producers in the world and feature both released and unreleased material. They also sell Mp3 mixes for $9.99.

    5. Re:There are customers outside US also by Xenex · · Score: 3, Informative
      "im in australia and we get jipped on everything - we dont even have any online music stores"
      Yes we do. BigPond Music is selling tracks for $AU0.99, right now.

      I wouldn't actually use it, though.
    6. Re:There are customers outside US also by dwightk · · Score: 1

      You can buy from iTunes Music Store if you get someone (say me) with an address in the US to buy you a gift certificate... I sold a couple on Ebay back when the Gift Certificates first came out. I couldn't make any money because I cant list things as buy it now until I sell 20 more items. But if anyone is interested (and trusts a complete stranger) feel free to email me...

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    7. Re:There are customers outside US also by grrrl · · Score: 1

      well there you go! thanx for the heads up - shows how well they advertise....

      but i wont touch wma format anyway so it still sucks

    8. Re:There are customers outside US also by grrrl · · Score: 1

      i guess i have seen some things around that are so marked up it would be cheaper to factor in postage, but it seems that its such an effort and a wait (how can i get my shopping fix if i cant have it *nownownow* ? :P)

      i like the idea of online music coz i never like all the songs on one cd!

  32. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    If you are my kind who prefer to keep searching for variety of genres of music that are not mainstream like global music and celtic, then you should definitely look into Rhapsody. Its something that you begin to appreciate once you try. Unbelievable collection that is very eclectic and different comprising a wide range of genres on world music (mali, rai, west african, new age). Its defintely worth 10$/month

  33. i'm suprised no one has said this but by timmarhy · · Score: 2, Informative

    "the industry is quietly hoping that the online music stores will start selling songs in compatible formats" we already have a compatable format arseholes, it's called mp3

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:i'm suprised no one has said this but by real_smiff · · Score: 1

      yeah. "the consumers are quietly hoping that the music stores will start selling songs compatible with P2P" thus improving the quality and selection available and removing that tedious conversion stage which is currently putting so many off P2P.

      --

      This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.

    2. Re:i'm suprised no one has said this but by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      thats a crock of shit. RIAA blab on about p2p being the devil and stealing babies in the night, but reality is nothing they are doing is even putting a dent in p2p. just driving it to adopt technology thats makes it harder for them to control. they will end up with p2p networks that dynamiclly block RIAA own address space, encrypts traffic and uses the DMCA to protect itself. why don't they put their money where their mouth is and open an mp3 store, i'm betting you won't see much extra p2p songs avaliable, hell they are all avaliable now but they will be able to make a buck out of it and look like a respectable business.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    3. Re:i'm suprised no one has said this but by MrMickS · · Score: 1
      *yawn* Until the recent announcements MP3 didn't have a DRM model. Without a DRM model the industry isn't going to go with it. The alternative would be akin to asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas/Thanksgiving.

      Seriously, before making such obvious glib comments try looking at the issue from an industry point of view. They see a lot of illegal downloads in MP3 format, with differing levels of quality. No way to secure files in an MP3 format. So if they produced good quality MP3 files they would just be feeding the pirates.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    4. Re:i'm suprised no one has said this but by amichalo · · Score: 0, Troll

      Ahmen!

      You can always could on the /. crowd to want everything for nothing. "Why don't they just XYZ." It's as if capitalism doesn't exist and everyone posting these messages is all about communism. We'll all just work really hard at something and expect nothing in return because everything is free.

      Makes me ill!

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    5. Re:i'm suprised no one has said this but by real_smiff · · Score: 1

      yeah. it was supposed to be a joke. i agree. soz.

      --

      This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.

  34. strangely enough, if you RTFA by andalay · · Score: 1

    you will understand that anyone in Bill Gates position would have done what he did!

  35. Re:compatible formats... who cares by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your own question: Why not a neutral file format that all can use and enjoy - not locked into anything?

    Your own answer: How do you think all those mp3s end up on Kazzaa?

    The dumb-user's urge to file share things that under copyright is why the content industry doesn't want to release things in open formats anymore.

  36. Why I haven't subscribed yet, by djcreamy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm sick of the all the special formats. As the consumer (rather, a potential consumer) I should be able to determine the format I want. I choose 192k mp3s. I already have 10,000+ mp3s, all between 128 and 192, if I am going to buy music it has to fit with the rest of collection. Some of these formats are horrendous, like wma. Get some quality in there, please!

    1. Re:Why I haven't subscribed yet, by iMacGuy · · Score: 1

      WMA 9 Pro is certainly better than MP3.

      --
      Why won't slashdot let me change my terrible username :(
    2. Re:Why I haven't subscribed yet, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I already have 10,000+ mp3s, all between 128 and 192...

      ...Get some quality in there, please!

  37. Re:First "Crapple Sucks" Post by kemapa · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Not really... I'm on a weak little laptop running XP and it was fine... using firefox at least. dunno what would happen if i used internet explorer.

  38. Re:compatible formats... who cares by OneFootIn · · Score: 1

    Remember taping albums to listen to them in the new fangled walkman?

    I bet a lot of the kiddies here don't remember that.

  39. Actually google does charge users for a service... by ericandrade · · Score: 1
    .. and a pretty good one too:

    Google Answers

    The great thing about this service is the fact that all the answers are public, and there are some mighty good answers!

  40. "headline story" what? by Ravagin · · Score: 1

    to be a total nitpicky ass, that's not the headline, it's called the "lead" or "first paragraph." and i found the website a bit upsetting - dude couldn't even recycle all those bottles?

    burn karma burn
    disco inferno

    --

    Karma: T-rexcellent.

  41. Legal alternatives, without DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why don't more people seem to mention or know about the legal alternatives to these services.

    www.allofmp3.com
    www.3mp3.ru
    club.mp3search.ru

    It's legal even in the US due to international copyright law.
    (www.museekster.com/allofmp3info.htm)

    1. Re:Legal alternatives, without DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Checkout Digibag.com

      http://www.digibag.com

      Digibag.com serves House Music in both Mp3 and WAV formats. Each files comes in .zip compressed files and the delivery has always been very fast.

      If you are into House Music you must check this site out. They feature the top producers in the world and feature both released and unreleased material. They also sell Mp3 mixes for $9.99.

    2. Re:Legal alternatives, without DRM by lithron · · Score: 1

      And I quote from the page you provided, "In the User Agreement Allofmp3 states that you may not use the service if it is in conflict with the legislation of your country."

      As well as this choice quote, "Allofmp3 is paying the songwriters, via the collection agency ROMS, but they are acting without the permission of the other copyright holders." So.. uh.. yeah, the song writer gets paid. But the artist who performs the song does not. When I buy Live and Let Die by Guns N Roses, Paul McCartney (and wife?) gets paid, but Axel Rose and crew do not. I know that is not legal in MY state.

      Just because a web page says something is legal, doesn't make it so.

  42. but remember ITMS worked pre-M$ support by johnpaul191 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    on the day Apple declared the iTumes MusicStore would support Windows they already accounted for something like 90% or 95% of all online music sales........ seeing as that was ALL online music sales coming from the 5% or so Mac users........ that says something. i am not 100% sure what it says. it says something about Mac users, or the store or both or...?
    no matter how you spin that data, it's obvious the iTMS works to a degree that customers will come back.

    that being said i should go use up the last of my pepsi bottlecaps! (they expire this week)

    1. Re:but remember ITMS worked pre-M$ support by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 1

      It says that Mac users tend to have more disposable income. Otherwise they probably would not have bought a Mac in the first place. (not flamebait, I promise!)

    2. Re:but remember ITMS worked pre-M$ support by soft_guy · · Score: 1

      I believe that you are correct. People who are poor generally think in terms of the lowest initial cost rather than the real value of items they are purchasing. You can find PCs with an initial price between $99 and $299. The lowest priced new Macintosh, the eMac costs $799 is a lot more than that. Of course, for $799 the eMac is a really nice computer which would provide a lot more value than the cheap PC.

      On the other hand, poor people who buy the PC probably wouldn't be doing the things on their PC that you would be doing on the eMac since they wouldn't be buying a lot of software or peripherals. Surf the web and IM some people and that will be it.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
  43. Janus vs. AAC by Forezt · · Score: 1

    I think we need to bring up the fact that Apple should license the AAC format to other music stores as mentioned in a slashdot article a while ago. It would be pretty funny if Apple beat Microsoft at monopolizing something and took the market before Microsoft even gets Janus out.

    1. Re:Janus vs. AAC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      AAC is open; WinAMP will rip CD's in AAC format.

      Now the FairPlay system is proprietary, but then so is WMA's DRM. In fact, of all the music services, Apple's comes closest.

      But you knew of this, right?

  44. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by Jad+LaFields · · Score: 1

    Very true, as I do have a tendency to only listen to the bands I already own until forced to listen to others (usually this means going into someone else's room, car, etc.).

    And before someone answers the parent with a cynical "but there's only crappy top-40 stuff on the radio", there's plenty of great satellite and internet radio stations that can cater to almost any musical taste. Check 'em out.

    --
    [SIG] It's like putting a moose in the blender -- a recipe for disaster!
  45. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's really too bad that 90% of the radio stations in my area that play music I enjoy listening to seem to have a single playlist of about 40 songs that they just endlessly repeat on shuffle.

  46. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

    There is a 30 second sample available for free for every single song available from the iTunes Music Store.

    For many tracks, the previews are significantly longer than 30 seconds. At least some classical tracks and spoken-word tracks have previews that are as long as 90 seconds.

    --

    I write in my journal
  47. Re:Congrats, Apple by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

    can anyone tell me if it that is real/fake? it looks so real, but I can't see much fakeness in it, I dont' have my glasses on, so I can't see anything anyways, are they fake?

    --
    Sig: I stole this sig.
  48. Re:Incompatible filetypes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the DRM server ever goes away (like the Circuit City DIVX one did), you'll eventually lose authorization (from upgrading to new computers, if nothing else). Anyone with only DRMed AACs will be out of luck. Anyone with audio CDs will be able to make new AACs -- but at the cost of an extra generation of lossy compression.

  49. DRM, Linux, Mac, and Windows... by Goonie · · Score: 3, Informative
    Your argument rests on the false assumption that Windows and Mac provide a safe environment for DRM systems. The only difference between DRM for Linux and DRM for closed-source platforms is that there is at least an illusion for closed source platforms that DRM will work.

    In practice, this is complete BS. Aside from Playfair, there are innumerable programs out there that provide "virtual sound cards", so you can rip the output of any sound player straight to your hard drive.

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
  50. Gilligan's stupid comment... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's the idiot's comment:

    "My career at this point realistically is going to depend on how successful this business model is."

    The guy is a college student, he's fixated on itunes (he spent $2,500 last year), and he thinks his success is tied up with Apple's an iTMS?

    Huh?

    This is what I say every time. People who use iTunes think there's a magic juju to Apple. People, Apple is the same as everybody else. Holy cripes. If you find yourself agreeing with this guy, get a pistol, put the barrel in your mouth and keep pulling the trigger, never stop.

    Cripes...people like this should be sterilized.

    1. Re:Gilligan's stupid comment... by amichalo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      He did not spend $2,500 last year on iTunes music. Read the article. He used part of his univeristy meal plan's $2,500 to purchase Pepsi and get free songs. from the looks of the photos, he bought at most a few hundred.

      If you aren't going to RTFA then at least don't misquote it!

      RTFA RTFA RTFA RTFA RTFA RTFA!!!!!!!!!

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  51. Numbers seem strange by hazzey · · Score: 1

    Looking at the chart in the article, it seems strange that the next closest rival to iTunes is Walmart. Didn't they just start their service a while back? Also, has anyone heard of someone getting music from walmart? It just seems strange is all.

    1. Re:Numbers seem strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't really believe it, but I've read somewhere online (or maybe I heard it on NPR, not sure) that Wal-Mart believes 75 percent of their shoppers (the ones that actually visit brick & mortar Wal-Mart stores) have internet access, and that 75 percent of those have broadband. They basically plan to use the 88 cent song downloads as a loss leader to get those in-store shoppers to regularly visit and buy stuff from walmart.com.

      I really doubt that 75 percent of those that have Internet and shop at Wal-Mart stores have broadband, but maybe there is some truth to the claim. Perhaps more so in urban areas.

      Is it also possible that Wal-Mart has such a broad reach that they really can pick up that number of customers just by default? I don't know. I do think another factor might be geeks like myself who have bought 1 track just to see how the Wal-Mart system works. I more than likely won't buy any more from them (being a Mac user, primarily, I prefer iTunes & allofmp3.com).

  52. Re:Congrats, Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Shame that the iTunes music store is only available in the USA. The rest of the world has to put up with stores that supply music in the WMA format.

  53. Re:compatible formats... who cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean that honest decent people want to share music they like with each other?

    Why, those crooked thieves! They must be stopped!

  54. Apple should release 'iTunes Express' by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

    I think Apple really oughtta release an iTunes client for Linux, but they'd have to retain full control of it for obvious reasons. I think an excellent soultion would be 'iTunes Express' which would be a Java client that lets us access and buy music from Apple. I don't think they'd release a straight-binary because there are too many camps to play to (redhat, mandrake, gentoo, linspire, etc.). A java client would be nice though, as it would work under Win32 and MacOS as well, letting you 'run iTunes' without affecting the host machine.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  55. Apple is doomed to repeat its mistakes by Stuntmonkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apple is, as we speak, repeating the mistake it made in the PC realm, only this time in the digital content arena. Don't get me wrong, I love their products (own 3 Macs and an iPod), but they just don't understand the dynamics at work here.

    Consider where they are right now with iPod/iTunes/ITMS:

    • Dominating market share
    • Fantastically innovative product, to the point that they virtually created a new market from nothing
    • Loved by their users
    • Highly integrated product, with a stubborn unwillingness to unbundle

    Now re-read the above, only now as a description of where they were in 1980/81 with respect to the Apple ][ and the PC industry they had recently created.

    Apple is still failing to understand the critical importance of owning the platform. In this case, whoever ends up controlling the DRM technology is going to control the digital content universe. And this will eventually include all movies, TV, books, and anything that can be digitized. By locking out every other vendor from using Fairplay, they are virtually guaranteeing their irrelevance in the DRM endgame.

    For Apple to have a chance here, they need to:

    • Issue a temporary Fairplay license to any other content supplier that will use it. They have some advantage here, since the iPod is so popular.
    • Issue a temporary Fairplay license to any other mp3/AAC player manufacturer that will use it. Again they have some advantage, since ITMS/iTunes are so popular.

    Just this past week Apple snubbed Real, which will push the rest of the industry that much closer to Microsoft's WMA. MS, for their part, are crystal-clear on how to win a platform war. I predict that in three years Apple will have Superbowl ads encouraging us to break from the DRM shackles of Big Brother and return to their platform. Yeah, right.

    Just had to get that off my chest. I hate to see good companies make bad decisions.

    1. Re:Apple is doomed to repeat its mistakes by kylemonger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But Apple doesn't want to win, at least not in the way you think. Apple wants to sell products to people who are willing to payh more for quality. There are enough of these people to make Apple a very profitable company. When they strayed from this and tried to compete with the likes of Dell they got crushed. If the DRM/media market starts looking like it will be controlled by "da cheapest iz de greatest" crowd, Apple should bow out and leave that wallow to the pigs know it best.

    2. Re:Apple is doomed to repeat its mistakes by leperkuhn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When you pick a computer, you choose operating systems. When you pick a mp3 player, are no choosing an OS. The mac market is small because there is a HUGE barrier to entry - whether it be other people not using it, or lack of software, or whatever.

      With the iPod, you can use it no matter what comptuer you have. There is still a barrier though - the "switchers". There in lies the problem. People who have bought songs using walmart.com and who have the RIO or whatever cannot switch to an iPod and keep their music. I think that Apple is either missing this point or they are hoping it won't affect them.

      A solution is not to open Fairplay and the iPod, but make it compatible with all formats. Let people load on their WMA files. Who cares? If they aren't making a ton of money on the songs, then who really cares where they come from? The Microsoft tactic of embrace and destroy should be used here, not the tactic of "let me stay on my island come join me."

      --
      http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
  56. iTunes does not work behind our firewall. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I purchased an ipod-mini, back when they first came out.
    However, I had no idea that iTunes would not work
    behind a windows firewall.
    Had I known about the problem, I would never have
    bought one.

    After 2 months of complaining to Apple, I've not
    received *any response* from them about the firewall issue.

    It seems the iTunes software is hard-coded to use
    the https port 443 for music purchases, and does not
    recognize any firewall configuration which proxies that port.

    the upshot for me is that i am unable to purchase
    anything from the iTunes web site.

    it's interesting, however, to see that it is still
    possible for me to "preview" music and book selections,
    as the software does use the firewall configuration
    for browsing.

    The support for this product really sucks.

    just my opinion.
    let the buyer beware.

    1. Re:iTunes does not work behind our firewall. by kylemonger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why are you proxying the https port? One of the points of SSL is the explicit verification that the remote end is who they say they are. If you're proxying the https port, you're essentially inserting a "man in the middle" of the connection, which I wouldn't expect to work. iTunes likely has the iTunes store's public key stored somewhere and there's no way your proxy is going to be able to insinuate itself into the connection without iTunes knowing about it. If the use of SSL is to mean anything iTunes has to reject the connection if the keys don't match.

    2. Re:iTunes does not work behind our firewall. by amichalo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't try too hard - Apple appears to have a fix posted inconsicuously at apple.com/support - the bastards!

      If that doesn't work, and I have no idea how technical you are or if you are interested in making this work but this guy looks to have had the same issue - can do everthing but buy music via his firewall. (Start at bottom of page and read up.)

      Lastly, try a Google search for 'itunes firewall 443' and see what pops up!

      It isn't that difficult to figure this stuff out man. And just for comparrison, try talking to someone live about your issues with other freeware (iTMS is free) and see how far you get.

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    3. Re:iTunes does not work behind our firewall. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thanks for the attempt at help for this, amichalo.
      unfortunately, we've already tried those suggestions... and still can't get it to work.

      We are able to access other https sites (and purchase stuff)
      from behind our firewall. it is only iTunes that will not allow us to buy.

      Apple seems to not care about the problem...
      too few of us that are constrained by a firewall.
      We've posted to the Apple support forums, several times
      and people there have tried to help.

      and nothing works... except removing the firewall,
      which is not a viable option.

      thank god for audible.com and music-match Jukebox.
      both of those sites allow us to purchase books
      and music from behind our firewall just fine.

      but iTunes 4.2 will not.

    4. Re:iTunes does not work behind our firewall. by amichalo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It sounds like you have identified the critical issue - the firewall. I assume you have tested this theory by disabling the firewall and trying to purchase music. If that is the case, then this is truly a simple solution!

      Just open up the ports one at a time until iTMS functions properly. This cannot be that big for adea. Even if you are simply using Windows' built in (piece of crap) firewall, you can open ports, allow either TCP or UDP traffic (my guess is iTMS is using TCP) and specify the port number.

      Did you try the Knowledge Base suggestion of registering phobos.apple.com and phobos.apple.com.edgesuite.net with your adblocker/firewall/etc software to expempt them from restrictions?

      How can you expect Apple to help you though configuring your third party software you are using to block network traffic?

      Me thinks you best play with your firewall configuration.

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  57. Chicago, Chicago, My kind of town by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    . In reference to lincoln park in chicago, roundabout glenview way, not to be confused with sleepy hollow park, where grizzly headless horseman are said to roam, looking for little girls skipping class from lyon.

  58. The Record business will kill this anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    iTunes 'could cost $2.49 per song'

    http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?New sI D=8493

  59. Emusic by modipodio · · Score: 1

    Anyone have any figures on how many songs emusic.com has sold ? I just signed up with them recently, they are not a pop chart outfit but they have a lot of bands I Like to listen to. $10 for 40 songs at 192 kbps mp3, no drm, no bullshit and very reasonable terms of service. When you break it down that works out at about 25 cents a song which I consider a reasonable price to pay for consistant sound quality, speed and the fact that you are giving something to the artists who make the music you like.

    --
    __________________________________________________ "UNIX is a fascist state, Windows is a democracy.
  60. "compatible formats" by Epistax · · Score: 1

    ...compatible formats...

    <geek>Ogg! Ogg! Ogg! Ogg!</geek>
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  61. Re:Congrats, Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a fake, created by the owner of this site

  62. Re:Congrats, Apple by fr0dicus · · Score: 1

    And the grandparent is an anti-Apple troll, probably penis envy as he's stuck with windows 98!

  63. What a coincicence by CrazyTalk · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's also the one year anniversary since I purchased a CD.

  64. MS calls Apple's kettle black. Worse than irony. by mactari · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the CNet article:
    But some rivals said they expect Apple's dominance will be temporary.

    "Apple is probably still riding the wave of their initial launch," said Jason Reindorp, a group manager in Microsoft's Windows digital media unit. "They have spent an inordinate amount of money to generate awareness around their closed ecosystem. (But) as people get more sophisticated in this area they are going to be getting more frustrated with a closed ecosystem. I think the market will kind of self-correct as things get more mainstream."


    (Let's ignore the fact, for the moment, that CNet decided to end the article with such a poorly written presentation of Apple's "rivals" that think the "dominance [of iTunes] will be temporary" by quoting a Microsoft rep and... hrm... just that one MS rep.)

    Is that some sort of joke? A Microsoft employee says that the folk at Apple, "have spent an inordinate amount of money to generate awareness around their closed ecosystem" and that "the market will kind of self-correct as things get more mainstream"?!!

    No, Mr. Reindorp, the market doesn't always self-correct. Let me refer you across campus to your OS development building see when it doesn't. You, of all companies, should know the advantages of spending inordinately more than anyone else is prepared to spend to effect dominance in a market. Lucky for you OS consumers haven't reached the level of "sophistication" when it comes to operating systems that you expect from them in the digital music arena.

    I'm heartened to see, at least for the time being, a market where Apple is comfortable betting the farm (the market Apple calls a "digital lifestyle" where the Mac is a "digital hub") and MS is not. I'm not sure I 100% believe what Cringely recently said, but this is one case where I hope Apple does ignore MS and keeps releasing a superior product with an inordinately high budget behind it.

    And this hope isn't just b/c I like Apple and use OS X daily at home, but also because I'm a stockholder. Apple's plan as you characterize it, as every MS employee should know, is often inordinately successful.

    --

    It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
  65. I find the numbers most interesting by amichalo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am shocked and amazed at how rapidly Walmart has dominated the WMA market. I am equally shocked that iTMS has been surpassed by the WMA alternatives. March 2004 numbers:
    iTMS - 4.9MM (Fairplay)
    Walmart - 2.7MM (WMA)
    Napster 2.0 - 1.9MM (WMA)
    Musicmatch - 1.5MM (WMA)
    BuyMusic - 0.5MM (WMA)

    That's Fairplay - 4.9MM to WMA 6.6MM (1.7MM more WMA than Fairplay songs - or 34% more than iTMS!)

    As an Apple fan (DOS 2001) I want to deny this but the numbers speak for themselves.

    It is the truth that whichever format sells more songs will become the standard because to switch to the other format will require not only the re-purchase/re-rip of the song library but the re-purchase of the player as well.

    Unless Apple is fibbing on the small margin they make (not likely as they have stated it openly and SEC may have a fvew questions if they have been) then it seems like Apple needs to support WMA with the iPod as well as Fairplay for DRM so that the iPod can remain King, Queen, and Jack of the hill.

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    1. Re:I find the numbers most interesting by gerardrj · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are misinterpreting the numbers. These are subscriber/member numbers and have nothing to do with downloaded tracks, albums or revenue generated.

      For all we know WalMart as 2.7 million members, but only several thousand have purchased music.

      For example. we know that iTMS has sold at least 50 million tracks, but has less than 5 million accounts.

      The latest numbers I'd seen released showed iTMS with something like 70% of all legal music downloads, that means that iTMS is selling more than all the other services combined.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    2. Re:I find the numbers most interesting by amichalo · · Score: 1

      These are subscriber/member numbers and have nothing to do with downloaded tracks, albums or revenue generated.

      Excellent point! This is a major twist to the numbers.

      So one may assume that mand of the WMA sites would have similar user numbers - as a user may have an account at each to "try them out" but would favor only one site for regular downloading.

      What then distinguishes one 99 cent site from another? The encoding (of course), but then what? The music catalog? the experience of browser versus "in-player" shoping?

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  66. KDX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget KDX http://www.haxial.com which is client/server based for Mac and PC, with a Linux version in the works. indenticle interface between all platforms.

  67. A birthday celebration... by dthree · · Score: 1

    ...but you can't buy "birthday" from the beatles on iTunes.

    --
    "I forgot my mantra."
  68. Re:Apple is doomed to repeat its mistakes--except by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple never had any dominant market share of computers--it was never even number 1 in units. In 1981, just prior to the introduction of the IBM PC, Apple and Radio Shack COMBINED for about a third of the Microcomputer market with Radio Shack having the edge on units and Apple having the edge on revenue. Even then, Apples cost more. Apple never got over 15% market share in units but maintained about that amount until the Apple][ was dropped. Then with only the Mac, Apple dropped under 10%. From as late as 1984, the only companies that have continued to make PCs are Apple and HP--both of which have always been high cost providers. (Sun emerged about this time as a latecomer in terms of market share.)

  69. Record companies will charge Apple more! by riversky · · Score: 0

    This will be their solution. If you are not compatible on all devices, you (Apple's iTunes users) pay a premium. This will cause me to look for alternatives, especially some of the reports of albums costing more on iTunes than the CD in the store after the price increases.

  70. Once Again, The Convergence Of Slashdot Stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Remember today's story about the changing role of libraries as information providers? As I'm typing this, I'm also ripping and encoding Dark Side Of The Moon. I borrowed it from my local library.

    My justification? I already bought the album. Technology has made the 20 cents worth of vinyl and cardboard obsolete, but I wasn't buying the vinyl and cardboard. I bought the right to listen to the music.

    The current attempt at DRM will fail because it is so Draconian and seems designed to profit RIAA companies. A good legal arrangement protects both sides. Existing copyright laws do a good job of prohibiting unauthorized copies while ensuring fair use. Copies are permitted to ensure compatibility with changing technology, but anyone who sells unauthorized copies will be arrested. Copyright laws work because they protect the artists. But DRM is just a way of leasing you the music rights, and charging again every time the technology results in a different format, or you buy a new computer, or....

    Even though I resent the RIAA's greed based policies and short sightedness, I still buy CDs when I didn't already own the rights to listen to the music. But I try to buy used CDs, so the money doesn't go directly to the RIAA.

    This isn't news, but in order to survive the RIAA needs to take the long view, embrace technology instead of obstruct it, and consider what works best for their customers. The current RIAA has opened a market opportunity big enough to drive a tour bus through. All it'll take is some emerging artist with a few brain cells and vision to self-promote and embrace technology and the top heavy record industry will collapse from its own bloated stupidity.

    1. Re:Once Again, The Convergence Of Slashdot Stories by amichalo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, I for one reject your arguement.

      When you bought the Dark Side of the Moon in the 70's, you most certainly were buying the vinyl and cardboard that contained the music. If someone had stolen it from you, you wouldn't have reported to the cops that the worthless cardboard and vinyl had been taken - thank goodness you still have your music rights!

      I think you have convinced yourself that pirating the music from the library is okay because you bought the same song, in a totally different format, long ago. Or maybe that you pay taxes and therefore you kinda bought a little piece of that CD anyway...whatever helps you sleep. You are a theif.

      And so what if you buy a used CD to keep the RIAA from getting any money? The artist didn't see a dime of that money either.

      The arguement is weak. Justify it however you must but at the end of the day, even a digital download is not a lifetime license to that song. (Not to mention a remaster or stereo version of a once mono song or whatever the future may hold - THX version.)

      Stop stealing and part with your ten bucks. Dark Side of the Moon is worth it.

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    2. Re:Once Again, The Convergence Of Slashdot Stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally think Pink Floyd sucks, but if you like them that's totally cool. But don't buy Dark Side of the Moon from iTunes. You'll have an non-removable gap between all of the tracks, and from what I understand, they are meant to run together continuously. If you truly love that album, listening to it on AAC from iTunes will be a frustrating experience. Until Apple corrects this (the fix is easy, make it one AAC file with metadata to store track start/stop times) I won't buy any live albums, classical, etc that may have tracks that run together.

      I'm not holding my breath.

  71. You're an even bigger ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're making the mistake of equating IP with something tangible (I can tell that you're an idiot). The days of COTS (commercial off the shelf software) are numbered by the fact that it's very easy to duplicate bits now. Never mind the fact that not everyone agrees that computer-only-readable binaries should be copyrightable (guess who championed that cause? your good friend billg@microsoft.com). I suppose that if you had lived back in the early 1900s, you would be screaming about how the evil automakers were stealing the livelihood of the buggy whip makers too.

    I've got news for you: You can't steal something intangible. Just because companies have been able to make a profit in the past from COTS (an aberration, to be sure) doesn't mean that they should be entitled to do so in the future just because technology changes.

    You act as though copyright law is a natural right and is fair and balanced, but it isn't and hasn't been for a long time. So go fuck yourself you self-righteous prick (and say Hi to Jack Valenti when you go suck him off).

    1. Re:You're an even bigger ass by bonch · · Score: 1

      I've got news for you: You can't steal something intangible.

      Yes, you absolutely, 100% can. It's called intellectual property theft. It's called stealing a potential profit. It's called being an immoral idiot who gets hung up on terminology in an attempt to distract the issue from the fact that you're doing something illegal and immoral against the artists you pretend to be "protecting" from the big, bad RIAA that the artists willingly signed contracts with.

      Next.

    2. Re:You're an even bigger ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yes, you absolutely, 100% can. It's called intellectual property theft. It's called stealing a potential profit. It's called being an immoral idiot who gets hung up on terminology in an attempt to distract the issue from the fact that you're doing something illegal and immoral against the artists you pretend to be "protecting" from the big, bad RIAA that the artists willingly signed contracts with.
      There is no such thing as "intellectual property theft", that is a fiction invented by those who profit from such fictions (and the idiots, like you, who endless parrot that line). There is infringement, which is not the same thing as theft no matter how much you jump up and down shouting that it is.

      As for tradmark, copyright or patent infringement being automatically immoral (certainly it's illegal, nobody said it wasn't you crackhead) the burden of proof rests with you. Most people don't see anything wrong with copying bits, except, of course, those people who have built their business around this flawed model and their mindless minions.

      Again, you can go fuck yourself you pompous, arrogant self-righteous piece of shit.
  72. Where's the benefit of that? by bigBlackSabbath · · Score: 1
    The problem with all of the analogies to brick and mortar stores and pre-digital music is that unlike b&m, there is no inherent advantage to having more than one store, as long as the store you use has what you want and allow you to use it in an acceptable fashion

    Why would I care who the money goes to as a consumer? As long as I get what I want as conveniantly as possible. Rather than a program that lets me go to many stores (which to the customer, would only be distinguished by its invoice), I want a store that has everything I want.

    Unlike physical stores, location isn't the issue, and since pricing tends to be similar across the board (with subtle variation) that's not much of an issue either. Selection is an issue, but only if the store you want to use doesn't have what you want?

    Think for a second - why do you think the average customer wants a choice of 12 "stores" they can buy the same Brittany Spears song from? The answer is most customers don't care - they just want it to be easy.

    I think Apple's move has made a lot of sense. People aren't begging them to use other stores because their store is so much more conveniant (if you already use iTunes, that is) and they probably already have the songs the person wants (if it's available as a legal download at all). Most people don't care too much about where their music money is going (especially if they tend to buy music from the big five labels) - they care about the conveniance of the process. Opening up the formats doesn't achieve that in any way.

  73. Options by meehawl · · Score: 1

    As the consumer (rather, a potential consumer) I should be able to determine the format I want. I choose 192k mp3s.

    AllOfMp3.com lets you choose formats (Ogg, MP3, AAC, and so on) and bitrate/quality settings as part of your download process.

    If questionably legal sites like this can offer such services, I can't see why it is so difficult for the "offficial" distributors.

    --

    Da Blog
    1. Re:Options by djcreamy · · Score: 1

      So I went to allofmp3.com. I subscribed. In the first four hours I downloaded 1.5gbs of music (at $15.00). Thank you, thank you, thank you. This site is incredible.

  74. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My car's CD player plays them fine, bitch-tits.

    Then why didn't you just buy the REAL FUCKING CD and get it in a format that won't destroy itself in a few years.

    CD-Rs aren't know for their durability.

  75. iTunes Encoder? by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

    Out of curiousity, why use the iTunes encoder for the 128 kb files when you have a higher quality professional codec available. I was under the impression that iTunes, while perfectly fine for the average consumer, wasn't exactly the best encoder for high quality distributable work.

  76. iTunes 4.5 Is Out !! by naden · · Score: 1

    Download it here boys and gals:

    http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/

    Looks like a reasonably solid improvement .. quite a bit 'snappier'.

    --
    Funtage Factor: Purple
  77. Tiered Pricing????? by Scroatzilla · · Score: 1
    a few albums have begun creeping upward. Aerosmith's newest was priced at $11.99 last week, while rock-guitar virtuoso Joe Satriani's new release was $14.99

    This goes right to the heart of why the RIAA and the music industry as a whole are so evil. C'mon, $11.99? $14.99? Those are CD prices! At least CDs are physical copies that took *time* to reproduce! Digital copies cost next to nothing to reproduce, and take little to no time to make.

    Soooo... What the hell? They're going to start "price tiering??" I mean, you can blah blah blah all you want about how that's capitalism, etc., but this seems outright criminal. It is basically telling people, "You may as well either stick with P2P, or get off your ass and get to Wal-Mart and buy the real CD, because you ain't gettin' a discount here."

  78. Love This Quote by White+Roses · · Score: 1
    From the article: Under this model, pre-release singles or very popular artists might cost $1.50 or more per song, average tracks might stay at 99 cents, and back catalog and other promotional songs or albums could drop even lower, for example.

    This from the label execs, among others. The same labels that never engage in any sort of price fixing. And then I read something like this article, and I, of course, see that the labels are doing the right thing.

    No, I don't trust the labels on pricing any more.

    --
    Do not touch -Willie
  79. Say what? by Orinthe · · Score: 1

    Apple will continue to benefit from the fact it has sold so many iPods--devices that work only with Apple's service. Last quarter Apple sold 800,000 of the portable music players

    This should really say that iTMS only works with iPods, and not the other way around. As it stands, the statement is blatantly incorrect.

    --
    SELECT quote.text AS sig FROM quote NATURAL JOIN attribute WHERE attribute.description = 'witty';
    0 rows returned