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Racial Issues Alleged In GTA San Andreas, Other Games
Thanks to the New York Times (free reg. req.) for its article exploring possible racial stereotyping inherent in many videogames. The article alleges: "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas... underscores what some critics consider a disturbing trend: popular video games that play on racial stereotypes, including images of black youths committing and reveling in violent street crime." Partially, though not wholly related to a recently discussed article on 'street' videogames, it's also argued: "The issue, critics say, is not that the games' representation of racial and ethnic minorities is as blatantly threatening as the sort found at hate sites on the Web, where players are asked to gun down virtual black or Jewish characters. Rather, the racial and ethnic depictions and story lines are more subtle, and therefore, some say, more insidious."
So we're supposed to ignore the last 4 GTA titles just because the one coming up will have a black character to represent the player?
Only white people can commit violence in video games now? And here I thought people were complaining because there weren't enough minorities in video games, now you can't put them into video games without someone complaining about the way they're portrayed (come on, this isn't like that Duke3D-engine game from a few years ago featuring an Asian protagonist, but then no one complained about the depiction of white people in Redneck Rampage, either).
-PainKilleR-[CE]
Let's ban ghettos! In there you will find all these stereotypes walking around where anyone can see them! Even little children. Save the little children!
Today's Slate featured piece was by a black woman lawyer called Racist Like Me...it raises some interesting points about how the accusation of racism tends to be a conversation- (and thought-) stopper, and how as a culture we should probably be more engaged in this kind of discussion.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Don't these people at DMA know that LA gangs of the early nineties were uniformly white?
Oh. Never mind.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Name one film that didnt have a black character acting as a home boy gangsta wise cracking rapper.
Always busy bitching about crap and not taking any action. In fact, I'm going to write a game where you're white and all you can do it bitch about stuff. Someone mugs you? You can start a commitee and bitch about it with other whities. Someone kicks your dog? You can start a commitee and bitch about it with other whities. Someone nuked your backyard with an old russian ICBM? You can start a commitee and bitch about it with other whities.
Ps, I'm white; Seth
Somebody make a game with all white people and let's see what the blacks have to say about that. You just can't win.
As they are the first who introduced those stereotypes. These kind of videogames such as GTA only try to emulate cinema through development of characters and plots similar to those seen on common blockbuster titles at big screen.
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Thinking never hurt anybody --MacGyver
If you want offensive, something worse. In other words, get over yourselves, people.
Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
"he prominence of black characters in those story lines is all the more striking because of the narrow range of video games in which blacks have been present, if present at all, over the years. A 2001 study by Children Now, for example, found that of 1,500 video-game characters surveyed, 288 were African-American males - and 83 percent of those were represented as athletes."
e s/2001/
I was curious - how many of the 1500 were hedgehogs? Racoons? Demon imps?
I checked the report this figure was lifted from:
http://www.childrennow.org/media/video-gam
"White characters were the majority in the video game population (56%)" - thats as opposed to 19% being african-american males (see above). That's compared to the real US population which is 80% white and roughly 7% african-american males (see http://www.census.gov/statab/www/poprace.html) - even ignoring for a moment that many games originate in Japan where the racial mix is even more skewed.
The accusations of stereotyping and the narrow range of games including such characters ring true, but the "if present at all" remark is completely unsupported by the figures - if anything african-american males are quite over-represented in games. Although not to the extent of space aliens, who make up less than 1% of the real population.
Living in the UK, I'd ask - where are the asian characters? (apart from japanese/chinese). Our population is about 5% from the indian subcontinent, but I can't recall ever playing a game with indian or pakistani characters.
However, I would also like to point something else out. GTA is about gangs and street violence. The reality is that, while people like those complaining don't like to talk about it, there are many gangs composed of specific races. Italian mafia, black gangstas, Latino, Irish, gangs composed just generally of white people(ie. white-supremacist groups), and as the OP pointed out, white rednecks.
Rockstar didn't create the current situation. In fact, that they are making video-games that reflect a little bit of reality can only bring attention to the issue, which can only be good.
Do people like the writer of the article want us all to put our fingers in our ears and close our eyes?
Fucking idiots. Why don't people put pressure on these groups who are actually committing violence? I guess that would make too much sense.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Have you ever noticed the lack of asian characters in Japanese developed games? Most characters seem to be cookie cutter caucasians. FFX is one of the few that comes to mind that had any characters with asian features, and even then, there was a disparity between the in game look of the characters and their look in the CG cinemas. They looked caucasian in the normal gameplay, and had asian features in the CGs.
What we need is federal affirmative action programs for criminal street gangs. If we can't bust them for illegal weapons or dope, we can smother them with greedy lawyers.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
This definitely sounds like racism to me. A white, Italian stereotype can go around gunning down anyone he wants, but as soon as he has to kill members of a Haitian gang, it's racist. But make the protagonist black, and all of a sudden it's reinforcing stereotypes and represents racism against African-Americans? Come on! There's a United Negro College Fund. If there were a United Caucasian College Fund, these same people would be crying racist. Yes, it is racist. It's racist that there is such a dichotomy - what's acceptable for one race isn't acceptable for another, and vice versa. This is just further evidence of the absence of racial equality in our society. The fact is, though, that in many regards it's skewed opposite the way many people believe it is.
This sig has been stolen. Return it to its original user for a reward.
One of the many things to reduce prejiduce and dispell stereotypes, is positive exposure.
For instance, the entire "nerd" stereotype. I'm sure there are quite a few nerds here. Heck, by the base definition of just beign smart, I'm a nerd. It doesn't mean that I'm phsically uncoordinated or have a severe inability to interact with people. I don't get sick very often, except when I'm unusally stressed. Never had a bad case of acne. A lot of people follow this line of life. But through exposure, we know that acne + social flaws + uncoordinated isn't tied to being smart.
Another example, the entire cold war "Russians are backwards" stereotype. The biggest thing that's different between Russians and Americans are where they live, the languages spoken and small cultural things. These differences exist between any two cultures to varying degrees. But via exposure, we learn that a lot of thinsg aren't true because we see for ourselevs.
By showing various races in negative stereotypes only reinforces certain ideas. Eventually, one deems for current fact either what isn't fact or isn't even current just because the idea was presented to them, not from some random joe on the street, but a coorporation.
Frankly, I would expect an american company, to have learned from its past and not promote these types of stupidity. In a way, it's disrespectful for what most of us have stood up against. Worse yet, it's plain wrong in that it gives "black", "latino", and any other races that get depicted in this fasion. After all, isn't America supposed to be about equality of people and power? Isn't this just plain slanderous of an entire group of people who will now be seen more as thieves and other assorted criminals? We dont' want to put criminals in power, but minorities should be ok, yet we slight them in this way? Shame on you GTA producers.
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ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
The game takes place in Southern California in the early 90s. This was the height of gang violence in that area and most gangs were made up of blacks or hispanics. I'm sure there were plenty of white people committing crimes at the time but that's not the subject matter of this particular game. Screaming racism in the face of documented history is just silly.
Personally, I'm offended that caucasian game developers who implement villainous characters of other races are often stereotyped as racist bigots. What are they going to do about THAT, huh?? Oh, that's right; nothing. Because my great, great, great grandparants, who have been dead for 100 friggin' years weren't slaves! How many people own slaves here in America today? Isn't about time that we GET THE HELL OVER IT?
I looked at a few screenshots of the game in question, and I can't think of a single, high-crime neighborhood that I've been in that didn't look EXACTLY like that. Please excuse Rockstar Games for making their game realistic.
But God demonstrates his love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - (Romans 5:8)
"Redneck" is not the preferred nomenclature. "Southern-US American", please.
are vastly more affected because they don't really mingle (as a rule, with exceptions).
:-)
Point in case: me.
My grand-grandparents are of the following origins: Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, South American Native, Black, Middle Eastern (Nobody [currently alive] knows if she was Jew or Arab), and Oriental.
How can I be a bigot? Whatever your race is, I certainly can feel related. Many Brazilians are in the same condition as I am, maybe I am more conscious (having done some extensive genealogic research) of my multi-ethnicity. When filling forms with "race/ethnicity", I usually seek for the "all of the above" option...
But USofAns, more than European people, apparently segregate much more deeply, by race, by religion, etc. They don't seem to intermarry as commonly as down here.
What appalled me in your link was the fact that this woman *is* in fact intermarried with a white guy and she fears and have nightmares with black folks. This is a sign IMHO that *she* has serious problems.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I'm just glad that movies and television don't have racial steriotypes. It's good to see that every other form of media has progressed beyond that.
The two latest GTA games have been filled with racial stereotypes. Japanese Yakuza, Chinese Triads, Columbian Drug Dealers. The game has been thriving on racial stereotypes since it hit the PS2, and Xbox. Doesn't matter if the lead character is black, white, chinese, or whatever. GTA3's character was technically Italian...not white. Another stereotype with the Italian Mafia. Granted, I don't know how often you're going to find multi-ethnical organized crime establishments. At least its not saying, all 'insert race here' are violent and prone to rebellion. Its more saying all Yakuza, Triad, and Columbian Drug Cartels are prone to violence and rebellion. Lets face it, organized crime exists to committ crime. Long story short, there's nothing new here.
as much as I personally detest the GTA games...
"Art imitates Life."
MORTAR COMBAT!
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If they dont want to be in the soon-to-be greatest video game ever then tell them they can't be in it anyway...because I am going to be in it. I mean c'mon, who wouldn't mind being this guy:
True Gangsta
If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
If you were to derive meaning from the context it's used you might think that "stereotyping" means or implies "racism" automatically, when in fact it's just another word for "conceptualization," which is something all language-using, thinking humans must do for their finite brains to cope with an infinite world.
If Australopithecus found a red bulb that smelled and tasted good, then saw another bulb of the same color and smell, it would eat it. Ergo, racial profiling. Seriously.
The statistical reality is that the super majority of Grand Theft Auto crimes are committed by Black and Hispanic people. Apparently even suggesting this statistical fact is "stereotyping" and intrinsically racist, even lacking specific extrapolation. When a Black or Hispanic is portrayed as committing a crime "not unbeknownst to their race," as it were, the furor erupts - but why?
I think the real reason for outcry is (and I don't say this with cruelty) embarassment, plain and simple. You see the same sort of shame from the Italian/Sicilian-American community over gangster portrayals, and from Americans over "ugly American" portrayals. But embarassing facts coming out in the open always causes shame. I don't see why reality should be ignored in order to assauge someone's feelings about their social status. There is absolutely nothing wrong, or even incorrect, about portraying "brown people" committing urban crimes, rioting, looting, etc. And since there is absolutely no indication in GTA4 that these "brown people" are representative of all others in all other cases, I don't see how this could be construed as racist by any but the embarrassed themselves.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Well to counter that isn't some company making a game based on the classic movie "The Warriors?" With the 800000 gang members in that, that was pretty diverse. Ranging from female gangs to baseball player mimes.
A liberal website like Slate accusing conservatives of something bad? Shocking.
Most conservatives I know would prefer things be completely color blind (ie no affirmative action), while the liberals I know tend to believe skin color should play a role in school admissions, hiring, etc.
The Last Dragon :-)
"including images of black youths committing and reveling in violent street crime."
So if the "images" were of white people I guarantee you wouldn't see white people complaining and sueing. If they did they would be called racists. If the game takes place in a certain area of a city it doesn't make sense to have the images of people in the game when you are in that area be anything but what the race of the people are.
Here's a copy of the article
...are wet with anticipation for GTA: San Andreas to come out. Guess they couldn't even wait for it to be released before they started trying to bash it.
We better ask the Pandemic and the US Army to stop distributing/playing Full Spectrum Warrior because it features violent Arabs in a Middle Eastern country.
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
The screen crackles with criminality as a gang of urban predators itch for a kill. The scene erupts into automatic-weapons fire in a drive-by nightmare of screaming car engines, senseless death and destruction set to a thumping rap soundtrack.
The action is not part of a new film, but of a video game in development - the latest permutation of Grand Theft Auto, one of the most popular game series ever. Partly set in a city resembling gang-ridden stretches of Los Angeles of the 1990's, it features a digital cast of African-American and Hispanic men, some wearing braided hair and scarves over their faces and aiming Uzis from low-riding cars.
The sense of place, peril and pigmentation evident in previews of the game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, underscores what some critics consider a disturbing trend: popular video games that play on racial stereotypes, including images of black youths committing and reveling in violent street crime.
"They are nothing more than pixilated minstrel shows," said Joe Morgan, a telecommunications executive in Manhattan who is black and is helping rear his girlfriend's 7-year-old son, who plays video games. Mr. Morgan argues that games like the Grand Theft Auto sequel, which was described glowingly and at length in a game magazine the boy recently brought home, are dangerously reinforcing stereotypes.
"A lot of young people are unable to discern between reality and satirical depictions," he said. "It makes them very vulnerable."
His complaint echoes a concern that many civil rights and other groups, including the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, have long raised about stereotyping in movies, and the detrimental impact it may have on racial understanding and relations.
The issue, critics say, is not that the games' representation of racial and ethnic minorities is as blatantly threatening as the sort found at hate sites on the Web, where players are asked to gun down virtual black or Jewish characters. Rather, the racial and ethnic depictions and story lines are more subtle, and therefore, some say, more insidious.
"It's not just the kinds of stereotyping people generally think of," said Eileen Espejo, a senior associate at Children Now, an advocacy group in Oakland, Calif., that has studied video games. "It is the kind of limiting what characters of color can do and cannot do in the games that sends a message to kids."
Video game developers counter that no offense is intended. They say their games are simply parodies, or a reflection of a sort of "browning'' of popular culture that transcends race and sells to all in a marketplace captivated by hip-hop styles, themes and attitude.
Several games scheduled for wide release this fall or early next year are notable for their portrayal of urban black culture:
Def Jam Fight for NY, from Electronic Arts, a sort of "MTV Raps" meets "W.W.E. SmackDown!" in which mostly hip-hop-style characters (one with the voice of the rapper Snoop Dogg) slap, kick and pummel one another in locations like a 125th Street train station in Harlem.
25 to Life, from Eidos Interactive, an "urban action game" set to a hip-hop soundtrack that allows gamers to play as police officers or criminals, and includes lots of images of young gun-toting black gangsters.
Notorious: Die to Drive, described by its developer, Ubisoft, as featuring "gangsta-style car combat" with players seeking to "rule the streets of four West Coast neighborhoods." Ubisoft's Web site describes the payoff succinctly: "High-priced honeys, the finest bling, and millionaire cribs are just some of the rewards for the notorious few who can survive this most dangerous game. Once you go Notorious, there's no going back."
The prominence of black characters in those story lines is all the more striking because of the narrow range of video games in which blacks have been present, if present at all, over the years. A 2001 study by Children Now, for example, found that of 1,500 video-game c
If I didn't know better, I'd think DMA or Rockstar or whoever makes the game was behind this. The first game sold on controversy (violence), the second one sold because everyone loved the first one, and the third one may sell on controversy over racism.
If someone at a publisher cooked up a marketing campaign based on controversy, they'd be rich. Well, richer than they already were.
Add in white characters eating fried chicken and watermelon.
I'm not a racist, but I do live in a major city and people have gotten shot and killed on my block, and I hate to say it, but it was black youths committing and reveling in violent street crime.
People of all ethnic backgrounds murder people and commit violent crimes, but in American urban areas, the vast majority of these crimes are commited by african americans. I would have a problem if the stereotype didn't exsist in real life, but the fact is this is how it really is, and they are just drawing from it. Golly, people writing fiction based on fact, how shameful!
You don't see people getting all miffed by the cops in GTA hanging out by the donut shops.
You know, at some point, someone needs to make a game in which you play as a video game company constantly battling a never-ending hoarde of lawyers who thrive on nitpicking every detail of everything you do.
"The buildings in your latest game are not wheelchair accessable. You've been sued."
"The color of the sky in your latest game has been found to give 5% of the population mild headaches after 20 continuous hours of exposure. You've been sued."
"Your latest game unjustly depicts people with red skin, sharp, pointy teeth, horns, and cloven hooves as sinister. You've been sued."
Seriously, the only gaming company that seems to get in more hot water than Rockstar is Infinium Labs.
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
Ok, my experience with Europe is not pan-European (Spain, Portugal, France, Autria) but, despite my looks -- slightly dark complexion, a mix of typical Italo-american and Arab, not very tall, dark hair, light brown eyes --, I was well treated in all of these countries, with no problem at all. And I lived in Spain for a year, but there I was at home -- almost every Spaniard guy I knew looked just like me :-)
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I'm not racist, I got a color TV!
Even Rockstar has other games wheres "whites" are the criminals. I haven't played other GTA games since I have a Nintendo gamecube, but Smuggler's run: Warzones depicts whitey having a field day break all manner of international law. No one cares about that!!!
if you can use "nomenclature" correctly in a sentence.
I'm sure this game has a nice GUI for selecting game options.
Just add another pane with checkboxes for what race you want the
gang members to be.
Kill all the Haitans.
What about Redneck Rampage? It was full of drunk whites and nobody complained.
proudly,
Turok
I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...
So we're supposed to ignore the last 4 GTA titles just because the one coming up will have a black character to represent the player?
This is a valid point.
And here I thought people were complaining because there weren't enough minorities in video games
This, in my opinion, isn't a valid point. Instead of blacks and whites, let's make up a new racial group called the blues. Let's just say that the blues are unrepresented in computer games, and they complain about it. Then along comes a game developer that says, "Okay, we've just developed a game that has a 75% population of characters from the blue community! Enjoy!" and then produces this game, which, by the way, requires that all the blue characters need to eat babies in order to survive, and murder people from the pink community and grind them up into narcotics, which, as it happens, all blues are addicted to.
Hopefully you see my point. Yes, it's a little reductio ad absurdum, but I think it's fair to say that a minority community is allowed a gripe if the majority of times they are presented in games, it's done in a negative way.
That's not to say that I think GTA should be censored or altered or anything like that. I believe in freedom for artists. But, you can't discredit a legitimate gripe, even if it's best levelled not at Rockstar Games but at society as a whole.
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
I cannot see chosing a black guy as protagonist as racist. You identify with the main character of a video game as it is you alternate ego. It is in my mind more a matter of presentation.
GTA is a game about criminals, so i guess theres no problem with having criminals of al ethnicities in it. There would be a problem if one ethnicity would be portrayed as the "good guys" and another as the "bad guys".
that's no excuse! All the GTA games are out on PC, and as long as you don't have a four year old computer, you'll have no problem running them. They usually look better on PC than on your TV, when the settings are up at 1024x768x32+