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Interview with a Spampire
Bunch2 writes "In this article at OReillynet, a 'hacker' explains why he put his superior coding skills to use by writing a spam mailer called Fahrenheit. (Hint: $$$) Turns out his little creation is also being used by criminals to 'phish' bank account information from gullible folks. The article shows how talented but morally challenged techies are becoming stooges of 'spammers, con artists, and other criminals.'"
The article shows how talented but morally challenged techies are becoming stooges of 'spammers, con artists, and other criminals.
Surely this has been the case for millenia? Only the specifics have changed.
Not sure if it would work, but worth a try.
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
The tool is legal, its what you do with it that counts. Exactly the same as P2P.
Umm yes. Spammers should have their balls cut off...
Is today the day we're supposed to gripe about the people who write tools? I thought that we're supposed to be backing the people who write programs like p2p clients that people use to do illegal things until Friday.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
The article shows how talented but morally challenged techies are becoming stooges of 'spammers, con artists, and other criminals.'
My thoughts are that coders can become morally challenged when you examine what we're up against today. We are up against shady corporations who lack the motivation to really give us our fair due.
Obviously I don't support the notion of the dark side. I don't have to because I'm employed by a good company who respects me and treats me right. But I wouldn't even support the dark side if I was dead broke. It's a trap that some people fall into, like the numbskull interviewed.
Coders who lack the necessary financial or social rewards in their lives sometimes choose the dark side of the force.
Coders are often the last to be told the way a system needs to be, perhaps a week before the system is due, and yet they should be the first to know. Coders are often looked at with disdain from management because of FUD. I'm really glad the company I work for respects me, but good companies are not the standard today; my company is a lone gem in an disheartening desert of coal. Sure there are other gems out there, but who knows whether a company is a gem unless you have worked there for a little while?
Luck really is the only thing that determines whether programmers/designers get to work for a gem. Bad companies are good at snowing you during HR selection processes. For example, I went on a job interview to a well known video game company on the west coast of Canada. They told me the job was for 55-60k for level design. I was elated. My wife was elated. We hoped that I could get the job. But we also discussed that I should be watching out for bad practices in the company before we uprooted and moved to the other side of Canada. When I was flown out to meet with this company, they immediately asked me if I would take 40k instead of their original bait. I told the HR guy that I was interviewing his company too, because I was trying to feel out if their company was a fit for me or not, and that his company had lost a huge chunk of trust by shaving off a potential 20k from the starting salary they had quoted to me during the two month preselection process. Yes the company can decide what to hire you for, but this really seemed like a bait and switch to me. You know I bet they do that all the time and I bet every single level designer falls for it, until they get laid off after the project they were hired to complete goes gold. It's a cheap trick and likely the start of a very unpleasant relationship so I threw the interview. I didn't get the job, and I didn't want it. Many companies are like that -- sneaky.
The standard is a company that is in it for profit, and allows the egos of management to dictate system design and project management. If managements were forced to delegate systems design to those who will be responsible for doing the actual work, we would have better systems and far fewer coders would choose the dark side.
Some of these dark side of the force programmers are fed up with managements and they have lost faith. So all ye who own companies that hire us, please prove them wrong.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
If your passion revolves around software and the jobs have dried up, and you have to make a living somehow... you're going to do what you have to.
Sure, selling spamware is unethical. But if it's that or starving to death...
*shrug*
this google search and look at the adsense ads..
then clickem! pay per click right?
google makes money, spam for profit companies lose money, and, well, why not?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Prontab.net - Porn for geeks. (nsfw)
If you read the article, it's clear this kid has crossed the line.
Let him share a cell with Martha for a while.
Maybe we can't catch and prosecute the phishers overseas, but we can catch and prosecute the punks helping them out from the U.S.
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18yo Florida kid sounds a lot like the description of me, before I went to college. Any computer job is hard to fill in FL, and this kid chose the wrong alternative.
So many job offers require 3 years of experience, that it's no wonder he couldn't find a job. Unfortunatly, he didn't choose going to school to get this experience.
Obviously, he didn't have a job because his skills didn't stand out, and his grades probably didn't either.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
But with computer programming jobs scarce, the eighteen-year-old Florida software whiz has joined the spam trade.
Aww.. the poor kid can't make any money any other way, so he has to resort to underhanded methods... hang on:
Kittridge said he created Fahrenheit, which runs on Unix-based computers, in early 2003. At the time, he was working as a system administrator for Evoclix
So he already had a job.
I might be going to extremes but he is basically saying:
"Ok so I can't find a girlfriend so I decided to rape one!"
If he is a so called "whiz kid" why can't he get a job? I thought brilliant people would actually find original ways to prove they are better when it comes to joining the workforce.
No, you suck. No, you suck. No, you suck.
My penguin ate my sig
It's arrogance that makes these 133t h4x0rz use their 'mad programming skillz' for detrimental purposes.
Humility inspires people to use their talent for good.
When you see people in places like Venezuela registering "secure-usbank.com," it sorta makes you wonder whether there should be stricter controls over domain registration. People would probably be less likely to trust a domain if it didn't contain the name of their bank in it.
Of course, too much control would hurt people who have legitimate reasons for using a name, such as, perhaps, "usbank-sucks.com" or some other sort of personal-opinion type of thing.
And on the flip side, it sometimes feels like maybe there's already too much control from corporations in particular, who take things like mikerowesoft way too seriously.Still, there's a nagging thought in the back of my head that spammers in Venezuela should have a slightly more difficult time getting secure-usbank.com. Maybe US Bank should've taken a cue from Microsoft and more vigorously defended the use of their name online.
picpix image polls. create - share - vote. fun!
"Because of outsourcing [of software and system administration jobs], it's one of the only ways a hacker can make money," says Kittridge.
Really? Sounds like the same false argument shop lifters make when trying to say there isn't work for them. No, it is just easier to steal/write malicious code then get a real job. They can say his code is a work of art, but it is still easier than trying to work at a corporation or starting a legitimate business. This criminal needs to get off his ass and get a real job.
Giving my on-line ID a bad name with his poorly named "phishing enabler" app.
Must track him down and BURN him.
Reason why there is hope for the future generation #364:
"I wish my grass was emo so it could cut itself."
the sad thing is, this kid is 18...
in 10 years when the market is better, his code will still be looked down upon because of things like this. at my last two positions i was told part of the reason I was hired was because of my positive google check.
Personally i havent had any problems paying rent in this economy with an honest job and hard work, it happens in nearly all lines of work where there are tough times. just stick it out, keep yourself honest, and you may be better off in the future, this guy has pretty much sealed his fate to a future of gray market applications
#include sig.h
so, I can pimp out my kid? or else I'll starve?
so I can become a contract assasin?
Heroin dealer?
A lawyer?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
The Army reading list
If your passion revolves around software and the jobs have dried up, and you have to make a living somehow... you're going to do what you have to.Ah, a person of questionable ethics.
Let's make this real clear for you: You are NOT entitled to work in your chosen field. Most of us do, because we fought hard to, but you are not guaranteed shit. If I had a passion for working with animals, but I couldn't get a job as a vet, do you think it'd be ok for me to go kill kittens and make money off of it? We do have an over population problem, after all.
Sure, selling spamware is unethical. But if it's that or starving to death...1. There are jobs to be had. Maybe not in your field, but there are jobs to be had.
2. When was the last time you heard of ANYBODY starving to death in the US?
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
the guy who pulls the trigger. However, if someone approaches you and says, "I need you to make me a weapon that I will MURDER someone with.". If you produce that weapon that has obvious intent for murder, you are an accessory to the crime.
So I guess the question is Did someone pay him to write this with his full well knowledge that it would be used for illegal purposes? If this is the case, HANG'EM HIGH!
Yknow if he can write an app to send spams with threading an rotating subjects and all this crap, why couldnt he write a decent CMS, or a groupware system?? see spamming is quick and easy is why. spamming is the dark side.
as long as there is email as we know it now there will be spam, because its too easy to be anonymous. I think we need to give up email en-masse and move to something more effective and secure. something more akin to how gmail works, but not using email for transmission. like a individual message board with IP verification.
might be pie-in-the-sky, but i just hate email...it just doesnt work...time to euthanize it and move on....
sometimes, i wonder if i'm the only conservative on teh intarweb. ah well, back to mah hogs and warmongerin'....
It started with some innocent all-natural fang-lengthening solicitations, but it spiraled into an orgy of Vampagra spews and Transylvanian scams. After a while, I no longer knew if I was dead or undead. And I was way too uptight to play it even a little gay.
*cough* bull crap *cough*
Look, I don't give a rats rear axle that the guys a good programmer. Good for him.
But if he can't make a good living as a coder, he should go out and get a job to pay his rent.
The argument you are making is like saying, "Hey, I'm really good at repo-ing cars, but since there aren't any jobs doing that, I'm going to go steal cars instead."
He had plenty of other ways to pay his rent. He crossed the line. He should do time.
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I work at an ISP, & when we run across an email phishing for bank accounts, we put the offending web server IP address in our access deny table in our main router.
And frankly, I'd eat a bullet before being a 31 year-old guy working at McDonald's
Yeah, I mean really, how terrible it must be to have health insurance, a steady paycheck, and to use the easiest cash register ever created?
Quite simply, you are a selfish greedy idiot.
You've got to remember that when a journalist / CEO / marketroid / your mom tells you that someone is a "computer whiz" that just means that they know more about computers than the speaker. It's a matter of any knowledge being greater that no knowledge.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
+1 Interesting
come on... is it a fair argument you asses there, and thru out your whole pice.
I mean, his no 'Robbin Hood' stealing from 'those bad companies' and giving to the 'poor' (like himself...) ... but rather makes life hard for the 'poor' and doesn't do anything about the 'bad companies' at all.
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
"Because of outsourcing [of software and system administration jobs], it's one of the only ways a hacker can make money," says Kittridge.
Okay, let's get a few things straight here. No offense, but you are 18. You haven't been in the "job market", and I hope to god you've been doing well in school. I imagine you've gotten great grades.
That said: have you looked at college? They aren't going to judge you as much there, and you can most likely go. You can also meet some really cool people your age and work with a lot of bright professors.
Don't get me wrong, I've done my fair share of "black hat" activity, most of which I keep quiet about now, but 15 to 18 is when you're allowed to do exactly that. Now is your chance to really shine and excel in information security classes at a university.
You can still hang out with some of your old IRC friends. I did till I was about 23. Then you realize you quit actually being interested in the same hacks and you start to think that all the new "kids" don't really know what they are doing. Then you start overusing the term "script kiddie".
Don't get me wrong, a lot of people erroneously call younger (and often brighter) hackers "script kiddies" simply because you might develop and use tools that require no thought. What you don't know is they were all using tutorials and very few of them actually coded their own exploits as well. In essence, the stuff they complain about you doing is stuff they would have done at the same age.
But that doesn't mean that you're heading in the right direction. Getting caught at age 15 is stupid. What is worse is the fact you are still in "the biz". I would highly suggest moving on with your life and applying outside of just a few places where you lead with, "I'm a hacker" for an interview.
The only reason why people aren't hiring you is because you still revel in your actions.
Sorry, you got that word wrong. It's not pronounced "HA-kurz", it's pronounced "LY-ing SO-sho-PA-thik THEEVZ". But no worries, it's an easy mistake to make.
Carousel is a lie!
But not with the payment model he chose and not for less than 6 digits.
Starving to death? Right-o. Perhaps if he's got the intelligence to write nice code, perhaps he may have the intelligence to think of a genuinely useful service/piece of software to sell. It might take more thought than being unethical.
Or perhaps in the meantime he can work for Ronnie's burger bar, or on a building site, or as a motorcycle courier - there are plenty of jobs around to take while you look for something better.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
It would have been fine as "From the interview-with-a-spampire dept."
The real mistake this guy made was giving out his real name. For every spammer/black-hat-hacker who comes forward with a story like his, a thousand don't. They will continue to make money at their morally questionable (compared to defense contractor work, not really) occupations, while morally righteous unemployed coders continue eating ramen and ranting on Slashdot.
correction.
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
You've got the definitions mixed up.
Morally challenged == dares not write such tools == NERD.
but also note that
Expert != nerd
And it will only get worse so long as "legitimate" authorities continue to appeal to morality rather than direct self interest in order to keep hackers from turning into crackers. The only thing an appeal to morality can do in the present situation of depressed wages for hackers is effectively run a eugenics program where the most morally impressionable hackers fail to reproduce. If you happen to like morality however you might call this a dysgenics program.
Seastead this.
From The Ten Commandments of Computer Ethics:
9. Thou shalt think about the social consequences of the program you are writing or the system you are designing.
Sometimes, it can be more about the gun than the person pulling the trigger.
> get tea
No Tea: dropped.
.. it prevents further "infection".
So this guy has superior coding skills?
By what reckoning? Superior in comparison to?
Its a completely meaningless phrase.
Subject lines and to avoid sending the "phish" to any addresses containing the words admin, FBI, or abuse.
I wonder if you had an address like admin-fbi-abuse@somemailservice.com, how much less spam you'd get.
"They are extremely bright, talented people
with absolutely no common sense"
Anyone has an idea who the author of this quote could be? I used google to no avail, maybe someone wants to earn modpoints ? ;-)
Code is Speech. No to Censorship.
Damn, I read the title as "interview with the Sampire" and I thought "finally, an interview that will be all jiggy with the ladies!" but it turns out I got it wrong.
Funny. He doesn't seem to enjoy spam either. Here's how he lists his bugtraq e-mail: bkittridge_at_cfl.rr.com
Why wouldn't he just write:
bkittridge@cfl.rr.com
"Hackers are having a real hard time finding work in the U.S.," says Kittridge in explaining his decision to work for spammers. "Spamming is our last resort to pay rent," he says.
/. summary. You, however, need look no further than the first sentence in your own post.
So GET A JOB, asshole.
Norally I would tell you to RTFA. Or maybe just read the
He could have written a really good ANTI spam program. Of course, writing Fahrenheit was the LAST LAST LAST LAST thing he did. The malnutrition was already starting to set in as he was writing it (tearfully).
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
...to the head.
What does Sluggy Freelance have to do with this?
Oh, SPAMpire...
- Luck really is the only thing that determines whether programmers/designers get to work for a gem
*again* come on,sure there is a 'gamble' there - like all things in life - but way not the only only way of getting to work for a 'gem' (as you say).
I'd say lack in determination & imagination is a sure way to start a fixation on counting on 'lady lucky'.
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
Worse than the comment's author are the moderators... Why do you folks want to blame everybody else except yourselves??? Get a grip! No, coders don't go bad because somebody pushed them into it. Some coders are just on the "evil" side because coders are people and some people are just "evil".
And all your tirade about hiring processes etc. That's just because "coders" let themselves be played. Most IT folks get no education about hiring practices and laws and rarely share information with each other. Example: You don't mention the company name, is it EA? Why the secrecy? Example: post an article here about NDAs and non-competes and read all the contradictory comments. Why do we IT folks have so many different views of legal documents? Did we all all our information from an "IANAL" friend instead of a formal course at college? Example: how many zillion comments do you see here complaining about managers not playing the programmer's way? Why not try to play the manager's game? Why not try to listen to the users, have meaningful dialogs with them?
But no matter what, "far fewer coders" would not "choose the dark side" (sheesh, how old are you moderators, 12?). "Coders" will do bad things just as often, whether or not they're trained properly and treated properly. That's just human nature!
So, since we are not holding anyone accountable for their actions, you won't mind if I hire myself out to run a hit on this guy, right? I mean I have to making a living somehow.
Sure, selling spamware is unethical. But if it's that or starving to death...
On to the serious side, no one needs to starve to death in this country. Between food shelters, welfare, and temporary jobs, it is easy to get enough food to stay alive. Furthermore, I have never been in a situation where I could not find a job. It may be a shitty job that pays crap but you can almost always find a job if you want to.
The problem with poverty in this country is not unemployment, but underemployment, and the large number of people that have not been able to advance themselves out of the subsistance level of employment. I do think that we need to do something about this, but I don't buy for one second that this kid had no other choice.
If you RTFA, you will see that long before he started selling spamware, he was under investigation by the feds for DOS attacks and other blackhat crap that had nothing to do with making money - he was just being an asshole. He was intelligent, and could have found a decent job, if he had bothered investing the time to build up some good experience. If he really loved programming/security he could have eventually found a job in it. And if is only concern was money, then there are plenty of other way to do that. It's not like has years and years in college wasted by moving to another sector. He choose to be a scum and make his living by harming others.
...is put the code on a t-shirt.
Technically, is was Brad Pitt who was interviewed... mmmm....Brad Pitt...
shouldn't that be 'Spamperor' seeing as the emperor controls the empire, not the other way round
Imagine.. criminals making un-authorized copies of software? If he's such a whiz kid why didn't he see that one coming? You'd think he'd be smart enough to put some copy protection in there.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
The problem of this guy is not finding a job, his problem is he wanted to make easy and fast money (his situation reminds me of Churchill's words "you had choice between dishonor and war, you chose war, you had dishonor" (english mistakes are mine, yep)
Sure, when you see your bloody cr**ppy neighbor making bucks at "who wants to be a millionar" or stuff like this, you don't care too much about ethic I guess (Geez, If I had had the same opporutnity than him, I would have made the same thing, altough ensured that I could not be connected to the writing of such software).
BTW, I can't help quoting : "Hackers are having a real hard time finding work in the U.S"
This guy is probably more experienced in computers than I could dream of being, but let me point he had already the answer to his problem : business companies don't want hackers, they want computers skilled staff. When you're a security agency, would you hire a serial-killer ?? (except the three letters agencies we all know about of course). Serious security agencies put serial-killers in jail, they don't employ them (or in movies only)
regards
From Web WordNet 2.0:
The noun "stooge" has 2 senses in WordNet.
1. flunky, flunkey, stooge, yes-man -- (a person of unquestioning obedience)
2. butt, goat, laughingstock, stooge -- (a victim of ridicule or pranks)
This jackass is not a "stooge" - he is an ACCOMPLICE. He does not deserve to "share a cell with Martha (Stuart)" in Club Fed, he deserves to be locked into stocks in a public place and to have rotten food items thrown at him. He deserves to be whipped until he shits himself, with the whole incident preserved on the Web and properly catagorized in all web search engines. To quote Hanover Fist: "Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him. He ought to be torn into little bitty pieces AND BURIED ALIVE!"
This little shit knew what he was doing was "wrong" in the eyes of society - he simply has no care for such matters. Yes, in that his arguments are no different than a drug dealer, burgler, or hitman.
In fact, I'd rate a drug dealer over this asshole - a drug dealer is doing "bidness" with people who want his product. I'd sooner legalize drugs than allow this little shit to do what he is doing.
www.eFax.com are spammers
sure you can do all the above except for becoming a lawyer...
Have some self respect man, you certianly do not want to sink that low.
because that road lead's to the deepest pit of crime and despair...
Government. next thing you know these kids that think they can control themselve by playing lawyer start looking at becoming a councilman/woman or worse senator or house of represenatives..
Good God man, that is not the road of darkness you want to go down.
This situation has occurred before, Ronin were samurai who no longer had a master, and caused all kinds of mischief in medieval japan.
It is one thing to design and build guns. It is quite another to knowingly sell them to the Mafia.
Sure if you create something with good intentions and it ends up being used for nefarious purpose, it is not your fault. But when you make a business out of dealing with scum, and doing thier dirty work, as this kid did, then you are as guilty as they are. It is his business dealing that should get him nailed, not the software he wrote.
Many posters are saying that creating this tool is illegal. They are right. But it is illegal to sell the tool to someone who intends to use it to do something illegal. That makes him an accomplice to their crimes.
If he put the project on SourceForge and GPL'd it then there would be no problem. But then again, who would write a purely malicious program and put it on SourceForge? (That's rhetorical, don't answer it.)
IT's a free market and the program isn't illegal, so what's the beef? That this kid has different morals than you or I? Stop whining and get over it: this guy isn't you, doesn't have the same needs, skills, motivations, and it's damned unreasonable for all you hypocritical smug whiners to judge him when he hasn't broken any laws.
In my book he's demonstrating the strength of the free-market, capitalistic system: there's demand for a legal product and he has the skills to meet that demand. He's an entrepreneur. If the market doesn't agree, his product won't sell and he'll have to try something else. That's the way the system works. Would you prefer that he starve to death demonstrating the 'moral superiority' of whatever belief system those of you who disagree with him subscribe to? How disgusting!
And don't say that you wouldn't do it. Have you ever been homeless? Walked miles back and forth to a minimum wage job that *just* fed you enough to survive to the next paycheck, because that was literally the only job available? How many of you have ever sat in front of a doctor and listened to her tell you that your spouse/child isn't ever going to get better, ever, but that with expensive treatment that your insurance isn't about to pay for, they can learn to 'manage the pain'? You'd be amazed what you'll do for money, when the need is more important that whether you can afford to buy the newest game system. You haven't walked in his shoes and you ought to consider that when you're passing judgement on him.
I've always tried to do what I needed to do to meet my family's needs. Sometimes we got by and sometimes we didn't. I haven't been desperate enough to do anything illegal and I hope that I've got more faith and courage than to go that route -- but I've been close before and there's no guarantee that I won't get closer in the future. I've stared into that face and I didn't like what I saw but I'm damned well not going to condemn someone else who may or may not have made the same choices I have, when all I know about him is a few hundred words from a reporter who hasn't the vaguest comprehension of the subject of his article and the self-rightous bigotry of the over-educated Slashdot elite.
the reason the jobs are being outsourced is because there are people who aren't as high and mighty as you who are willing to do anything just to make an HONEST living. the world owes you nothing.
if you're happiness depends solely upon where you're employed i feel sorry for you.
how about working at burger king, mcdonalds, and the other 60,000 places to work?
people that use that line I scream BULLSHIT in their face.
you are NOT looking for a job if you did not look there.
we had a whiney CEO here lately on the news, whining how he was going to lose his house, cars, boats, etc.. because he cant find a job.
most of the people writing in and calling the station were screaming "wahh, he's so full of shit he stinks."
The article shows how talented but morally challenged techies are becoming stooges of 'spammers, con artists, and other criminals.'
He was prostituting his skills, and he knew he was doing it and he chose to do so. From the article: Kittridge's impetus to write Fahrenheit was seeing spamware selling for thousands of dollars.
In fact, he's pissed that he didn't get more money from his Johns.
Kittridge says he overlooked one key feature in Fahrenheit: copy protection. That fact, combined with his three-day, money-back guarantee, has resulted in lots of unauthorized copying and lost revenue, he says.
Coders who lack the necessary financial or social rewards in their lives sometimes choose the dark side of the force.
While people with higher morals/ethics would choose to switch professions rather than contribute to the ills of the world. Instead, he chose to add to the spam problem for some quick cash.
A close relative of mine fell for a phishing attack lately. I was really surprised as this person is meticulous in record keeping and normally careful in business. He is thorough enough that his records will tell him instantly if something is going on, so he'll be able to contain the damage.
These turkeys are criminals and do need to spend time in jail. It would be emotionally satisfying to castrate these bastards, but of course that's just talk. Still, I bet I could come up with a dull spey blade on short notice.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
This guy is an idiot. He is going to regret his involvement in this business in a couple of years, when he will try to get a real job and his name and association is all over the 'net.
I'm sure he is not the first or the last to be approached by a shitty businessman with promises of riches for some software that does something shady.
Being a contractor in a city that is full of small businesses, I have been approached by five business owners so far and asked to write crap software like this guy. Most of the owners want spamming software. As a part of the IT community, I have turned down all of them, even though I did not have a job and had a wife and siblings living with me.
The moral of the story, is don't shit where you eat. Do not write software to abuse the IT community with spam/hacks/scams and expect to be treated with respect when you're older and trying to make a career at a decent company.
As a side note, I understand why he's doing the things he's doing. The work is very challenging and always on the cutting edge, and the short term money is great. I just hope he realizes that what he's doing is immoral. Morality is fickle, but attacking individuals will always be immoral. If he were writing a P2P (which is also immoral from the point of view of the RIAA), we'd all be singing his praises.
-- D3X
Being amoral, aka evil, is always the hard way. They always slant it towards the good guys. Hmpph.
"At the time, he was working as a system administrator for Evoclix, a Florida junk-email company listed on the Spamhaus Register of Known Spam Operations."
Yes, he has a work, if being as admin of a junk-email company is considered a real work... Its like considering "drug seller" as a good job...
He did it for the money. There's nothing really surprising about this.
We've been taught that Greed is Good after all, so why do we even comment on stuff like this? Oh yeah... that attitude only works when it's a small number of parasites feeding off society, not all of society with that attitude.
If you actually read the article, it sounds like his real complaint isn't that his program is being used for illegal/unethical/immoral purposes... it's just that he isn't getting paid for it, because it has a 3-day try-before-you-buy feature.
This is no different than a story about "Enterprising young man pimps out neighberhood girls." Only the tools are different.
And having read some comments in here... this posting is already -1, Redundant.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is... Oops. Frank, I've got your sig again! Where's mine?
If I had a passion for working with animals, but I couldn't get a job as a vet, do you think it'd be ok for me to go kill kittens and make money off of it?
Sure, if they were your kittens and you could get somebody to pay you to do it.
Worst. Dinner and a show. Ever.
Carthago delenda est!
selling spamware is unethical. But if it's that or starving to death...
s/spamware/crack to schoolkids/g
I can see you trying that one on a judge.
But, I don't think it's the same kind as this guy.
Nifty little script. I keep it running 24/7, bombarding my favorite spammers. I was doing the same thing myself with a frameset, but this one is soooo much prettier!
I don't respond to AC's.
You asked: "Actually, I'm a little surprised you would say such a thing. It's *far* from clear. What line did he cross?"
... Kittridge says he and other hackers will continue to consort with spammers.
....... and how many people do DDoS attacks on their own network? Yet I use nmap and tcpdump on the networks I administer.
From the article:
He wrote DDoS code. That's it. He was raided by the FBI for source code. You cannot tell me in one breath that source code is free speech and then say that the FBI was justified for the raid.
Again, from the article:
Kittridge, who uses the online nickname Bysin, earned a reputation as a "black hat" hacker after bursting onto the scene in 2001. Just 15 at the time, he gained notoriety for releasing knight.c, a program designed to perform distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks. The tool was cited in a July 2001 federal advisory to home PC users, and the FBI raided Kittridge's home and took six computers away as evidence. (He says the agency notified him last month that it was dropping the case and would return the equipment.)
Writing the code is fine. Releasing the code is okay. When your code is used in a DDoS attack, then the FBI will come to your house and take all your toys.
So, yes, source code is protected speech, but the FBI is justified for raiding the house of a person known to have distributed the tools to perform the attack.
You cannot say that the people who implement a law punishing this kid for his source code aren't going to simply turn around and likewise punish developers of DVD decoding software. Or worse, creators of tools like nmap, tcpdump, and more.
Right
I'm sorry, I'd rather live in a world where my biggest fear is a Windows virus than a world where coding in "that hacker OS *nix" is forbidden save for those "authorized" to do so.
So you support the freedom to run phishing scams?
Besides that, the GUI did have a good look and feel to it (from the screenshot included). Maybe that with his C skills he may overcome this. Right now, If I were him, I'd just hope I didn't get charged with a crime.
Honestly, though, I think a lot of us with a lot of free time, who grew up with computers did some comparable things in our youth. It's just too bad that mischeif nowadays is so easily ramped up to a felony.
Yeah, it's essentially a protection racket, but it still ought to be considered in the outsourcing cost equations. After all, outsourcing decisions are all about facing the cold, hard costs of doing business, and the cost (and marginal cost) of Spam is one of them.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
please? i hate mine.
"Morally challenged?" That's a load of sewage.
Depending on the law du jour, he may or may not be a criminal, per se, but he's a scum-sucking pig. A jackass. He's aiding and abetting thieves, extortionists and con artists. He's as guilty as a guy who helps plan an armed robbery and drives the getaway car.
He's a prime example of why we need to bring back three things to the justice system:
1) Public flogging
2) Public stocks
3) Restitution
And I speak as one who's been laid off twice in the computer industry and wondered for months how to feed my family. We survived, and I didn't have to compromise, pursue armed robbery, or aid and abet spammers and scammers to do it.
When was the last time you heard of ANYBODY starving to death in the US?
Do you really think that even the local news covers it when some bum is found dead in an alley in December?
I'm in networking and administration. I got here via an athletic career (Track and field) and several jobs that had nothing to do with what I do now. I've done everything from shoe store management to construction to general labour.
Ultimately the "job" thing is whatever puts food on the table or helps yoru local community function (coo-op farming comes to mind).
My father started his career doing systems programming for the early generation IBM mainframes that ran the (Canadian) Bank of Montreal/Montreal Trust systems in the mid 1960's. He had a staff of 18 at one point, but barely made enough money to get a mortgage. He offered to quit unless he could get a raise matching the "private" sector offerings. Even with THAT salary he couldn't afford a mortgage, nor even qualify for one. Which is funny since he was essentially a "mortgage specialist" overseeing the punchcard systems and doing actuarial forensics when things got "lost".
To make this story short (hard to do), he quit afetr accepting a job aty a new bank. The new bank cancelled the job several days before he started and having just quit his prvious job he marched in to a Canada manpower office to see what was available there and then. By later that day he was tarring house foundations for almost as much as he made in his previous job. He was promoted very soon for offering to work for less with the expectation that he could learn from the master trades people. They gave him a raise and he began a 30+ year in the building trades...a job that has since taken him from the Arctic building early-warning radar installations to Brunei building housing complexes for big oil conttractors.
The lesson I'm projecting is the point where he was wearing a three piece suit applying for a construction labour job...remember that part. The 1930's weren't even that kind to people so be thankful that at the very least you could get a job at McDonald's to pay the rent if you had to.
Life is one big transition, and if this kid is good enough he'll stay in school, or work on something else and save for the day when he lucks into a good coding job or meets a connection that can find him an employer looking for his secific talents. Rueing the fact that he can only work for people who prey on others is a very weak argument. Someone else is spending their days and money trying to undo all that work he's enabled them to do
The only advice I can offer is good luck and happy adventures. My dad doesn't regret his career change one iota by the way.
Oh? that justifies it? he could dig ditches, you know. Pick citrus. Wrestle alligators.
Over here, bus drivers get about 50% more than I currently get in my tech job for a very large computer company with a very short name.
IT's a free market and the program isn't illegal, so what's the beef? That this kid has different morals than you or I?
The "beef" is that he's using his skills to add to the ills of the world.
Stop whining and get over it: this guy isn't you, doesn't have the same needs, skills, motivations, and it's damned unreasonable for all you hypocritical smug whiners to judge him when he hasn't broken any laws.
Ah, the old "if it isn't specifically illegal then it is moral/ethical. Sorry, that doesn't work.
In my book he's demonstrating the strength of the free-market, capitalistic system: there's demand for a legal product and he has the skills to meet that demand.
The same can be said about demand for illegal products such as drugs. They are also sold in a "free-market, capitalistic system". Just one that happens to be illegal under our current laws.
He's an entrepreneur. If the market doesn't agree, his product won't sell and he'll have to try something else.
Again, the same can be said of dealers/pushers. The only difference are the morals/ethics.
Would you prefer that he starve to death demonstrating the 'moral superiority' of whatever belief system those of you who disagree with him subscribe to? How disgusting!
When was the last time you heard about an 18 year old guy in the US starving to death? Really.
And don't say that you wouldn't do it.
Why not? I wouldn't.
Have you ever been homeless? Walked miles back and forth to a minimum wage job that *just* fed you enough to survive to the next paycheck, because that was literally the only job available?
The janitorial job I had was enough to afford a cheap apartment close to the airport. But it sufficed.
How many of you have ever sat in front of a doctor and listened to her tell you that your spouse/child isn't ever going to get better, ever, but that with expensive treatment that your insurance isn't about to pay for, they can learn to 'manage the pain'?
Okay....... where do you see that in the article?
You'd be amazed what you'll do for money, when the need is more important that whether you can afford to buy the newest game system. You haven't walked in his shoes and you ought to consider that when you're passing judgement on him.
No, but we did read the article and the only thing that he's complaining about is rent money.
I've always tried to do what I needed to do to meet my family's needs. Sometimes we got by and sometimes we didn't.
If you didn't get by then you or your family are dead.
I haven't been desperate enough to do anything illegal and I hope that I've got more faith and courage than to go that route -- but I've been close before and there's no guarantee that I won't get closer in the future.
So your family didn't "get by" it legally, but you never resorted to anything illegal. So, mathematically, your family died.
Sorry to hear that, dude.
Of *course* you can kill kittens!
You have my express permission and support...
The secret of success is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake those, you've got it made. (Marx)
It involved traveling around Iraq.
Unarmed.
Best Slashdot Co
I donh't know US law but here in the uk we have the "resonable person" test for such things.
Laws are drafted such that for example a "reasonable person would fear for their safety".
or "removed from the property with reasonable force"
thus the legislators can be vague and the courts decide what is reasonable
consesquently saying "I wrote it to make hundreds of emails to fill up my hard disk" would be countered by the prosecution and the judge would direct the jury as s/he saw fit (unless it's magistrate court where it's just the judges)
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Whoa, sounds like the parent poster was hitting a little close to home for somebody.
Posted at 11:07am, eh? Well, I sure hope you were able to make it to McD's in time for the lunch shift.
I did RTFA. Where else would I have gotten the quote I posted?
Figures it was modded down to -1. I can't believe assholes like you support spammers. Well, maybe I can. Now go on and move out of mommy's basement already.
His software was written specifically for spammers.
It has the capability to bounce messages through an open proxy.
It has the capability to take in a list of names and sort out the ones with "admin" "abuse" or "fbi" in them.
And, last of all, his program can be used by one person to annoy millions of innocent people.
A p2p program needs to be used by 2 consenting people. They might both be breaking the law, but that's something they have to both decide to do.
He wrote a program designed to send and conceal spam, knowing that it would be used to send and conceal spam and then he sold it to spammers who he knew would be using it to send and conceal spam.
The difference seems fairly obvious to me.
I've used bit torrent to download Knoppix images. Yet I don't believe that any of the people he sold his software to would be bouncing mail off of open relays for legitimate purposes.
Morality is a luxury. Morality is a luxury. Yes, I repeat that because that's critical. Most people on the planet do not have the luxury of deciding whether or not their job is morally right. Most people work because they HAVE to. This whole "personal fulfillment from work" bullshit exists only in wealthy countries like the US. MOST of the world's population is still in places like Africa and Southeast Asia, where you're lucky to have ANY job that pays $0.25/day. So, take your high and mighty (and juvenile) "Dark Side" bullshit and shove it sideways up your ass. You're lucky to be able to choose what job you want. No need to rub it in the faces of those not so fortunate to have been born in the right country.
I don't respond to AC's.
"Hackers are having a real hard time finding work in the U.S.," says Kittridge in explaining his decision to work for spammers. "Spamming is our last resort to pay rent," he says.
It's hardly the last resort. Ever thought about learning some other trade? Really, you mean it's the last resort before doing something that means real change for you. Are we supposed to understand this?
How about doing what the rest of us do and get an education. If there are no jobs as a hacker, then become a qualified software programmer!
I'd have to say this pales in comparison to the actions of companies like Wal-mart, who knowingly lower the standard of living for millions of people here in America and abroad. All for the same motivation: more money.
Their actions might be technically legal, but they're more ethically wrong than some guy who writes software to spam.
I'm really good at smashing windows and puncturing tires with icepicks, and that's all I want to do with my time, but no-one will hire me to do that legitimately, so I have to set up shop doing it for for shady, anonymous people. I can't help it, it's the economy. Once things pick up, I hope to reform myself and dedicate my life to morally correct window-smashing and tire-puncturing. So I can certainly understand where the young hacker is coming from.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Granted, any half-decent programmer can write code that mass emails a crap load of people. However, this guy also used proxies to cover his tracks as well statistical graphs and print outs of the program's success. His program is also multithreaded, which by no means is a simple programming concept. He definitely has a pretty good grasp of how write decent code. Additionally, I applaude the fact that he coded it in Unix - good tastes concerning the development platform!
However, its really one of the worst things he could have written. Its a shame he doesn't start / contribute to an opensource project. Moral of the story? He's a waste of talent. Also, why is he looking for a "hacker job" when he could just be a software engineer for a whole variety of companies?
"Recursive bipartite matching"- try it!
Total deaths resulting from malnutrition for all age groups in 2001: 3,454
So is child pornography and prostitution. Go to hell!
Techie: Master Yoda, is the dark side of code stronger?
Master Yoda: Quicker, easier, more seductive, but once you start down the dark path of malware forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will as it did Obi Wan's apprentice.
Techie: How will I know the difference?
Master Yoda: You will know when you are calm, at rest, passive. A programmer uses the code for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
Look I love my job, I get to play with computers, and when things are slow I can even browse Slashdot while at work and not get in trouble. However, it's not like it's the only thing I am capable of doing.
If I lost my job, I'd probably look to do surveying again. It's fairly easy to get a job as a assisstant (called rod man) even if they know you aren't going to stick around, turnover is nearly 100% anyhow. Now since I bothered to pay attention in trig class, and last time I had the job, probably wouldn't be too hard to move up.
Retail is another possibility. I know more than one geek friend who's gotten a job at Radio Shack doing sales. One decided that, really, that was all he wanted out of work and the money was good enough, so that's what he still does. It's not very engaging work, but it pays the bills and there's usually someone hiring.
Tech bitch work is another possibility. Lots of shops like CompUSA and the local stores employ A+ level techs to fix computers. Boring, since it's mostly despywaring computers, replacing broken parts, etc, but again, it'll pay the bills.
Along those lines call centre work is a possibility. There are still plenty in the US and most of them are always hiring people with tech understanding and reasonable spoken English skills. I'd sure as hell hate to do it, but I could if I had to.
Or there's always fast food, counter work at a place like a copy shop, etc. Turnover is basically 100% so you can usually get a job even if they know you will ditch them in 6-12 months. I'd actually proably prefer this to call centre work, and most of it actually pays better than minimum wage.
So you know what? If I lost my job and just coldn't find another IT job anywhere, I wouldn't turn to ilegal activities, I'd just turn away form IT. Maybe for good. I like IT work, but I do not require it to live a happy and full life.
from discussion below article:
Pathetic
2004-10-14 03:48:44 simon_hibbs [Reply | View]
"Because of outsourcing..."
Up untill this point I thought he was just a bit selfish and uncaring for others, but no. Actualy he's an ignorant whinger too!
Yet more proof that people can be very clever and talented in some areas, and unbelievably brain dead in others.
It effects everyone, just people have different pain thresholds. Some folks it's just a job loss, other people it can be more...or less before they will go against any level of ethics and morality they might think they have. And that's all it is, a pre conceived notion of what you would do or not do. People forced to extremes (the donner party), or people who *think* they've been forced to an extreme(my lai massacre, or outright mass hedonistic greed like with various enronesque scams) are capable of anything. Others, all it takes is "permission", witness what happens in war with most people. People turn from day to day regular to acting on raw emotion and opportunity, they can and will do things they wouldn't normally do, either by necessity or by coercion or by faking themselves out that what they are doing is OK "this time" because an authority figure gave them permission by issuing an order or by alluding to an order with a wink wink. And that is both on the military and civilian sides when I mention war, ask any soldiers how many hookers there are in a combat zone, and how many of them partake. Then ask the soldiers later on when they are respectable dads back in the world how they feel about THEIR 10 or 12 year old daughters banging soldiers for money because they are desparate. Those are extremes, but very common. Of course, you won't hear them bragging on it on the internet much, that's something only "the other side" does...they will ride that boat swiftly to the other side of the river de-nile, as the parameters have changed back. It just happens, always has really.
When it comes to jobs,though, in a normal society, it starts to get murky, some people have an obvious very low pain threshold on what they consider to be employment that they can or will do. For some people not being able to keep up the mortgage and expensive car and CC bills is "enough" for them to consider most any employment, no matter how dubious it is, whereas others will suck it up and sell off the big house and new car and take whatever job and housing they can find legitimately without compromising themselves, but only if the pain threshold for them is not yet reached, and that's the really important part.
It's the nature of humans, and that nature is..we have no accurate yardstick, because all pain thresholds make up the gestalt of humaness. Bad is a reflection of current local mores, given a reasonably comfortable existence, at that exact time and space. Start to mess with that, change those parameters, what average society is used to, and it can get real bad,and really quickly, as I will attest being through a few major riots before. "Normal" society and averagely held ethics and standards to pure predatory anarchy in 5 minutes.
It doesn't take much at all to strip away the excrutiatingly thin veneer of so called "civilization" and what passes for acceptable behavior.
so, I can pimp out my kid? or else I'll starve?
You be suprised as to how few people there are who would buy your pimped out kids.
so I can become a contract assasin?
Actually contract killing is extremely hard work, and you usually end up on the run from your employer and the police.
Heroin dealer?
This is probably the most reasonable choice since demand is at its all time highest.
A lawyer?
Good God Man, have you no morals?
Doing something bad gives instant recognition and bragging rights. He was not in it for getting his rent paid. (He is just making excuses now.)
The best punisment would be to sue his ass in the next few years - a civil lawsuit for financial damages so that his posessions could be taken away and then criminal charges to plea-bargain him into working for feds (as a form of comunity service). He could be useful for catching people like him.
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
It's shocking how so many of you are actually rationalizing what these 'programmers' do. Not only are these practices unethical, but they give real programmers and the entire industry a bad name. They cause our government to enact laws which are destroying the freedom that is the essence of the Internet.
In a finantial bind? Get a McJob if you have to. It's pretty hard to say you don't have any other choice: there are plenty of better jobs than building software/systems for scammers and spammers. Resorting to this behavior makes you just as bad as them.
The whole thing makes me want to [insert rash action here]. Ironically, it is my own morals stopping me from doing such things.
The word "stooges" should have been substituted with "criminal co-conspirators".
This program is just a program, and it is only good or evil as it is used. That being said, this reminds me a lot of automatic weapons. Sure a gun is only a tool, and it is entirely up to the user in how it employed. However, like an automatic weapon with an extended clip, a silencer and teflon coated bullets, it's practical legal uses are very limited and the potential for abuse probably far excedes it's legitimate useage.
P2P software is in the same boat, but it is a far less clear cut case. While I could argue that there is a legitimate need to be able to transfer files to large numbers of people, and that there isn't much use in mass-mailing software, there is a far simpler line deviding them. If I go phishing for bank accounts, I am committing criminal fraud. If I share copyrighted material via P2P, I am comitting a civil offense. Ergo, I would guess that someone like this could probably be charged with aiding criminal activity. (If I were a DA, I would haul this guy in on a charge like that, and let him plea bargan a suspended sentince. He probably doesn't deserve serious jail time, but at the same time he needs a wakeup call to re-consider his rationalizations.)
What kind of cop-out is his his excuses anyway? 'It's hard to find a job'. Bullshit, when time are tough, you take a job flipping burgers if needed to make ends meet, not start writing software to aid criminals. I got a job in Seattle (supposedly one of the worst places for IT unemployment in last few years) right after the dot bomb crash, comming out of college with no real resume.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
As a musician, I have to wonder where all the "information wants to be free" comments are.
Programmers are having a hard time finding jobs in the US. But, on the other hand, if he has a good background in computer security, then he should pick up a certification or two in that and get a job doing computer security.
It's pretty tough for companies to outsource their computer security jobs overseas.
He could then write open source code in his free time to his hearts content to keep up his coding skills.
I just don't buy the whole bit about him having to write malicous code because of outsourcing. That's just a rationalization. Like people have pointed out, it sounds like he has decent coding skills. So, he could always try to fall back on that.
Randy.Flood@RHCE2B.COM
There is no inherent "good" or "evil". There is no all encompassing "right" or "wrong". There is no statement of truth that contains "is [not] ethical".
If society does not want a behavior to continue, it becomes a crime. It does not become unethical. It does not become wrong. It does not become evil. It is simply either legal or illegal.
He (the subject of the article) is not evil. He is not wrong. He is not unethical. He is either guilty or innocent of a crime. Discuss his guilt/innocense. Discuss whether it is/should [not] be a crime. Discussion concerning ethics, right, wrong, good, or evil is superfluous.
People need to stop turning every discussion into a religious war.
"A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."
But malnutrition isn't the same thing as starvation. This may just mean that in 2001, 3,454 people existed solely on a diet of Cheesy Poofs and Coke.
haha, starving to death is unlikely. If your really hard up for cash, go get a job at fast food for a few weeks, or somethign such as that. There are ways to make money. This dork is not a hacker. He's a half baked developer who feels pitty for himself. He probably has all the DefCon and Blackhat swag as well! HAHA..
Hacker my *beep*
Here is my effort.
I wrote it. I use it. It works.
There are only two cases where it doesn't work.
I disable it temporarily for good reason.
This is usually to receive website account logon information. Once received, the software is re-enabled again and the spam is filtered out automatically once more.
Some spammer sent a spam with absolutely *NO* content whatsoever in the email body.
Easily fixed.
All I need to do is extend the spam filtering my programs do to the 'Subject:' line and spammers will be silenced for good--it will be impossible for them to conveniently spam 'in the open' via the email subject line or email message body. If the spammers are still spamming in an obvious, verbose manner, I can incorporate code from my first version of the filter to filter out such spam (it was dictionary and keyword based). The only area left to spam in is the email headers. Who reads those unless you are tracking down spam so you can complain to the appropriate parties.
I have given up reporting spam--I just delete it automatically.
I report the fraudulent email I get sometimes when I have my software temporarily disabled.
Now then...why is a spam and fraud tool like the one mentioned in the article considered news on Slashdot while my anti spam/fraud/malware filter continues to languish in the mists of obscurity?
Why does Wired Magazine editor Chris Anderson get a news item on Slashdot (self-promotion for entertainment related article he wrote)
and I do not (to introduce the email spam/fraud/malware filter software I wrote--now in an improved version)?
What is the criteria for newsworthy items here?
Is it someone's status in the (computing) industry?...
Or is it someone's attempt at genuine innovation to solve a problem that threatens the stability and reliability of the Internet itself?
Before I wrote the software I use now to check my POP3 email account inboxes, I was fed up and pratically seeing red over all the spam/fraud/malware I got.
Now, thanks to using my own software, I feel sorry for spammers/fraudsters/computer crackers. I am genuinely surprised when I get a real email or a pathetic, no-content spam from a spammer/fraudster/computer cracker.
In short, my software filters 'obvious' spam/fraud/malware out at its most fundamental level while still allowing normal email communications to take place. Normal email doesn't contain one or more of the eight 'hallmarks' of spam/fraud/malware that I've determined all such email has.
I think my software is worthy of a news item here. Just have a look at my (currently) rated '5 interesting' way to 'fix' Google.
He choose to be a scum and make his living by harming others.
You mean like our representatives, bankers, police, lawyers, CEO's?
People with ethics always come out on the losing end in this country. They work harder, earn less, and die earlier than the con-men, thieves, and liars.
PORN GOOD
"Hackers are having a real hard time finding work in the U.S.," says Kittridge in explaining his decision to work for spammers. "Spamming is our last resort to pay rent," he says.
Hackers in the original sense have great jobs, and figure out cool & elegant things nobody ever did before. Crackers have a rough time because they defeat others' solutions. That can be helpful in some cases.
You are a criminal. You are breaking a whole mess of laws, wilfully and purposefully and for pay, and you are whimpering about it. Eminem with a shell script.
Please. If you're that good a coder, get a real job. If you've screwed yourself by doing bad things, and you can't find your way back to real work, boo-freaking-hoo. Try harder. Going humble might help. Lose the outlaw attitude or don't be surprised when they lock you up.
You're not the Lone Ranger, you're not Abbie Hoffman. You're a skilled person with little impulse control and even less frustration tolerance. Those last two trump the first every time.
Did no one notice he also wrote two sendmail exploits? It seems most of his work is spam-oriented. I don't buy his whole "last resort" excuse in light of his previous work.
Bank tellers who feel they are being underpaid embezzle from Wells Fargo.
Athletes who know they'll get huge endorsement deals if they win will take performence-enhancing drugs to win.
Junior executives who want to advance up the corporate ladder will look the other way when their bosses employ crooked accounting methods.
IT people are no differen than anyone else. We all face difficulties in the workplace - boredom, underpayment, stress, extensive overtime, ignorant bosses, ignorant subordinates - you name it, most of us have experienced it whether we're techies or not. Moral challenges abound for us all.
The trend I've seen over the last two or three years is that techies are increasingly thinking of themselves as victims. Perhaps this is because the IT industry is maturing, and the jobs that were once seen as the exclusive domain of Big Brains are now seen as just another part of the Information Economy.
It's not an easy thing to confront, particularly if your ego is wrapped up in your job. But market forces, technical innovation, and other forces are making IT jobs in the United States less attractive for those individuals who for whatever reason are not in a position to start their own company or work as consultants.
Those IT folks who are willing to accept that getting ahead in this industry no longer is risk-free will be fine. But the days of wine and roses are over. IT is becoming a commodity. We hammer on the RIAA for failing to alter its business model in the face of technical and social changes, but what are we doing if we keep looking back to the glory days of the late 1990s, rather than preparing for the future?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
"My poverty, but not my will, consents." "I pay thy poverty, and not thy will."
About 2 years ago I searched high and low for everything google had on me and went through a lot of trouble to get it all removed from the web and from google's cache. They weren't that bad (mostly arguements on message forums) but the things I did in high school don't reflect me now. Now if you search for me it's all generic information that I consider public.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I truly have a name that has never been used in the history of the world. So when you search for my name you find me and only me.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
"The article shows how talented but morally challenged techies are becoming stooges of 'spammers, con artists, and other criminals.'"
So they're working for a company?
Duh. Of course techies (and anyone else for that matter) are going to stoop to such lows.
OUTSOURCING. NAFTA.
We're losing our promised jobs right out of college because major corporations would rather pay some Hadji in Bangladesh $0.33/hour instead of paying a well-educated American techie the $8+/hour they deserve.
Plus, the Bush Administration is actually ENCOURAGING this by giving tax breaks to companies that outsource. All this does is put more money in corporate big-wigs' pockets, which shows up in the hands of the Administration and it's cronies via Lobby and Campaign Donations.
Well, fsck them. If they want to pull shady, back-room politicing and BS, then we'll show them how low we can go. Until Outsourcing is heavily regulated, taxed and put in its place, Techies will do whatever it takes to put food on the table.
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
Some nerve.
semiquote: "All the jobs are outsourced to India so I have to to this to live."
I really don't care who I hurt as long as i can pay my rent.
Nice morals.
Where is my Metal Bat of Don't Do That Or I Will Beat You Again?
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Starving to death? Don't your civilisation have welfare? Ours do...
In regards to Phishing, I've come to the conclusion that the best way to fight them is to "water down", or "dilute" their data.
So, in that light, I call upon every able person to respond to Phishing emails. Give 'em fake but realistic information. Give it to them over and over again. Make it so that finding a "real" response is like looking for a needle in a haystack! Clog their mail drops with it.
Just one person won't dent it much. But thousands can make the practice very unprofitable.
If had a passion for working with animals, but I couldn't get a job as a vet, do you think it'd be ok for me to go kill kittens and make money off of it?
Sure, working for the ASPCA would be a good job to get you some experience with animals and help boost up your resume. Granted there are some downsides, like what to do with kittens that don't get adopted but I bet he'd get really good at giving shots...
I sure hope this guy brian does not look up to this little kid. I also hope brian does not use fahrenheit for his first mass email campaign, he might get an intruder on his system.
o cuments/evilns.c?bfbHubBBoTI1KL1z
/* Remote buffer overflow exploit for bysin's Fahrenheit v8.0 (bulk mailer) ./evilns for usage and command-line options. ./evilns -t 3
To call ben kittridge (aka, bysin) a "whiz kid hacker" is the biggest insult you can give to all the true hackers out there. He's a complete moron with novice coding abilities at best. I can't believe I am seeing someone talk as if this kid is highly intelligent.
I feel sorry for all the lamers using that fahrenheit crap, because thats what it is CRAP. Look at the exploit that was written for it months ago, and this is just ONE route of exploiting his silly code. Probably most if not everyone who has been using fahrenheit has unwittingly gotten themselves "hacked".
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/416edd6c_d16e/bc/My+D
.
*
* Author: [T3]
* Date: July 04, 2004
*
* Compile:
* Linux/BSD:
* gcc -s -fomit-frame-pointer -O2 -o evilns evilns.c
*
* SunOS/Solaris: (not tested)
* gcc -s -fomit-frame-pointer -O2 -o evilns evilns.c -lsocket -lnsl
*
* Usage: Run this as root to run as a fake nameserver on port 53. It
* immediately drops to an unprivileged uid/gid, so don't worry.
* The daemon will respond to all DNS queries with data that will
* hopefully spawn a bindshell on the bulk mailer host.
*
* Type
*
* Example:
* - You own a domain called bubblebutt.com.
* - You have root on a shell called nshost.com.
* - You want to target a mailer on lamer.com running Slackware 9.0.
*
* Steps:
* 1. Run evilns as root on nshost.com with
* 2. Set the nameserver for bubblebutt.com to nshost.com.
* 3. Get your "victim" to add "user@bubblebutt.com" to his mailing list.
* 4. Check your log file periodically to see if you got a hit.
* 5. Telnet to your bindshell port on lamer.com to see if it worked.
*
* NOTES:
* - If it fails, restart the daemon with a different bufaddr/offset.
* - If it works, fix your terminal at the prompt by typing:
* export TERM=vt100;exec bash -i;
*
* Comments:
* This shitty spaghetti code had so many avenues of attack, it was hard
* to pick one to exploit. Go back to CS101 before boasting about what a
* wonderful programmer you are. Here's some classic quotes from bysin:
* "i invented the term > *", "you forget who i am",
* "Fahrenheit 8.0 doesn't have any bugs",
* "i wrote a ddos tool a few years ago, but i can't release it cuz
* it's too dangerous and could take down the entire internet"
*
* Talk like this is just an invitation to ridicule. Excuse me while I go
* laugh my ass off...
*
* !!! THIS CODE IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY (PROOF OF CONCEPT) !!!
*/
just wish you thought of it first
...for just about everything. Some horrible things, like killing people or hurting loved ones, are so high as to be functionally unreachable (nobody is going to pay me $250 billion tax free to leave my wife, for example).
Nobile and heroic are just moral deadweights put on the common man to keep him in line.
I thought that people like you were only on TV? You had to discuss this with your wife and "*children*"? Why would you want to ever discuss this with your kids?
I doubt you did, I believe you're full of shit. Building a porn site and spamming are completely different things. You don't *have* to go to a porn site.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
put his superior coding skills to use by writing a spam mailer called Fahrenheit.
I wasn't aware it took superior coding skills(tm) to write a goddamn SMTP client.
"No no, it's really clever, because it has to LOOK UP ADDRESSES IN A LIST, and send the same thing to ALL of them!"
Or perhaps in the meantime he can work for Ronnie's burger bar, or on a building site, or as a motorcycle courier - there are plenty of jobs around to take while you look for something better.
:)
I think that answer is actually quite misguided, and I speak as someone who very nearly went bancrupt while hunting for work.
I have been fortunate enough to have worked in several industries before turning to web development, then database work, then server maintenance, etc. Before that I worked in the music industry - for over 15 years, in many facets - and before that I worked your typical crappy retail jobs.
The problem with saying "Just get a regular 'Joe' job, there are tons of them out there" is that when you try to do that when you now have a resume that is clearly all over the map: you're considered "overqualified", or "not a good fit." Or much more frequently that your skills in those jobs are out of date, that you don't have any "recent" experience in the field you're applying for. My feeling is: there's a reason we spend so much time pursuing these careers of ours. It is not so we can take a step backwards, as nice as that might sometimes be in the name of keeping a roof over your head.
I'm not in the position of some people where they have more than one mouth to feed, so in that sense I've had a great deal more freedom in terms of quickly relocating if needed, or taking a bit of a pay cut or a lower position, etc., if needed just to secure the position. (Any position.) Unfortunately - and this is from experience, and re-writing and repositioning my resume so that some portion of experience fits the bill - it is nowhere near as easy as "just going out and getting an 'ordinary' job."
Having said that: no I would never work for spammers. I spend too much energy trying to stop them to ever be able to restrain myself if I were in any kind of interview situation.
$0.02
ad
Because I can! [Brainrub.com]
Many technical companies have employment contracts that forbid you to compete with them outside work, or at least to use the things you develop at work for other jobs without paying them for it. Don't know if his spammer day job has that kind of rule and he ripped them off, or if it was legitimately separate.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
then you have a price for anything.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Of course, the catch to publishing the full code is that spammers can then use it for free, which isn't really a good thing, but at least publishing the bugs would be a good start.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
"Congress shall make no law..."
Seems like a clear superceding of every other law.
And while I'm here, could the "you don't have to buy it, corporations are devoid of any responsibility except to their shareholders" crowd pipe in?
It gawdamns me that every person is held to a higher standard than any corporation or politician. He wrote a program that could be used for nefarious means *shrugs*. How is this any different than the shoddy implementation of security from MS? Was one more intentional than the other?
He sold out. Enron and any politician who accepts PAC money does it every day. Where is the outrage?
And why all this focus on SPAM? I get more phishing exercises from snailmail than I ever have from email.
With all the fucked up, corrupt goings on in the world (especially ones that have a body count), a wet behind the ears script kiddie making a few bucks just seems so trifling.
Why doesn't Halliburton (or any company working there) arm workers that have to travel?
Better to go in a gunfight than have your head lopped off for dramatic video footage, I would think.
Are they not allowed to for some reason?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As a punishment this guy should be made to listen to an 8 hour lecture on morality by Richard Stallman
Yes people sometimes die of exposure (or other causes of course from a life on the streets), but almost never of starvation.
My name is shared by famous musicians and generals. I'm great unless someone decides I massacred hundreds of innocents in a naval battle.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
(Doing the job right is especially on cygwin, where you'd need to make sure all the parts are there and provide a bit more installation advice, as opposed to Unixes where you mainly need to be sure wget is there and you've got the appropriate shell. But either way, you should be able to cut down on memory usage substantially.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Nobody ever said you had to like it, but there is no guarantee that you get to work in your chosen profession. If someone was holding a gun to his head and said "code this or die", that'd be one thing. But this kid had a freakin job WHILE HE WAS DOING THIS.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Yes I have used guns before - as a kid I'll bet I reloaded more ammunition than you will ever see in your lifetime.
I can imagine how the gunfight goes, most likely with the workers being killed... As I said that is preferable to the alternative once captured. Do you disagree? Is it better to die in a gunfight or as a propaganda tool?
Kidnapped workers are generally being killed anyway, when captured - why not give them a chance to avoid capture, and provide a small deterrent against kidnapping?
No I have not had military service. But I am 35, so at least have some benefit from age. I am not a gawky fifteen year old who thinks it would be "cool" to be in a war. Anyone who thinks so should watch "War Photographer" sometime. I just think that were I on assignment there, and traveling around without military escort, I would like something I could use to at least provide a small chance at stopping a kidnapping - even if it meant turning the thing on myself. Obviously I don't need a job that badly as I am not over there myself and I feel very sorry for those that are - just trying to understand why employers would not let worker go armed. A question which you just ignored.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
My point is that management perception of IT has changed, which is part of the problem. Managers often seem to regard IT workers as easily replaced, because there are so many of them when compared to 10, 20, 30 years ago. IT people are not the rare creatures they used to be.
This is a classic case of familiarity breeding contempt, rather than understanding. Many IT people are being mismanaged. But my fundamental point is that EVERYONE is mismanaged. Managing well is not easy, and most managers are never truly trained as *leaders*, so they don't know how to lead effectively.
The difference is that now IT people are not in a position where they can easily walk away in search of greener pastures at some other employer. So in many fundamental respects IT people are now dealing with issues that the rest of the workforce takes for granted as part and parcel of having a job.
As you state, technical people are the victim of bad management. To which I say, this is what happens when your skillset is becoming more available to employers. It's not pleasant for IT workers, and it doesn't make for well-implemented projects, but it's the reality.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
... because for them, and a lot of other neocon/libertarian "think tanks", selling your opinions to the highest bidder IS the core of their ethics. Everything should be for sale, concern for anything else than your own belly is immoral and backwards. Their behaviour makes perfect sense, although of course they can't publicise that world-view in it's purest form, because that would hurt the bottom line.
They are apparently quite open about it to their sponsors though. When roblimo asked Ken Brown how much he'd take for stopping his attacks on open-source and start supporting linux instead, the answer was:
"We could talk about that..."
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
I sure hope this guy brian does not look up to this little kid. I also hope brian does not use fahrenheit for his first mass email campaign, he might get an intruder on his system.
+ Do cuments/evilns.c?bfbHubBBoTI1KL1z [yahoofs.com]
/* Remote buffer overflow exploit for bysin's Fahrenheit v8.0 (bulk mailer) ./evilns for usage and command-line options. ./evilns -t 3
To call ben kittridge (aka, bysin) a "whiz kid hacker" is the biggest insult you can give to all the true hackers out there. He's a complete moron with novice coding abilities at best. I can't believe I am seeing someone talk as if this kid is highly intelligent.
I feel sorry for all the lamers using that fahrenheit crap, because thats what it is CRAP. Look at the exploit that was written for it months ago, and this is just ONE route of exploiting his silly code. Probably most if not everyone who has been using fahrenheit has unwittingly gotten themselves "hacked".
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/416edd6c_d16e/bc/My
.
*
* Author: [T3]
* Date: July 04, 2004
*
* Compile:
* Linux/BSD:
* gcc -s -fomit-frame-pointer -O2 -o evilns evilns.c
*
* SunOS/Solaris: (not tested)
* gcc -s -fomit-frame-pointer -O2 -o evilns evilns.c -lsocket -lnsl
*
* Usage: Run this as root to run as a fake nameserver on port 53. It
* immediately drops to an unprivileged uid/gid, so don't worry.
* The daemon will respond to all DNS queries with data that will
* hopefully spawn a bindshell on the bulk mailer host.
*
* Type
*
* Example:
* - You own a domain called bubblebutt.com.
* - You have root on a shell called nshost.com.
* - You want to target a mailer on lamer.com running Slackware 9.0.
*
* Steps:
* 1. Run evilns as root on nshost.com with
* 2. Set the nameserver for bubblebutt.com to nshost.com.
* 3. Get your "victim" to add "user@bubblebutt.com" to his mailing list.
* 4. Check your log file periodically to see if you got a hit.
* 5. Telnet to your bindshell port on lamer.com to see if it worked.
*
* NOTES:
* - If it fails, restart the daemon with a different bufaddr/offset.
* - If it works, fix your terminal at the prompt by typing:
* export TERM=vt100;exec bash -i;
*
* Comments:
* This shitty spaghetti code had so many avenues of attack, it was hard
* to pick one to exploit. Go back to CS101 before boasting about what a
* wonderful programmer you are. Here's some classic quotes from bysin:
* "i invented the term > *", "you forget who i am",
* "Fahrenheit 8.0 doesn't have any bugs",
* "i wrote a ddos tool a few years ago, but i can't release it cuz
* it's too dangerous and could take down the entire internet"
*
* Talk like this is just an invitation to ridicule. Excuse me while I go
* laugh my ass off...
*
* !!! THIS CODE IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY (PROOF OF CONCEPT) !!!
*/
I sure hope this guy brian does not look up to this little kid. I also hope brian does not use fahrenheit for his first mass email campaign, he might get an intruder on his system.
o cuments/evilns.c?bfbq.bBB2_czKL1z
/* Remote buffer overflow exploit for bysin's Fahrenheit v8.0 (bulk mailer) ./evilns for usage and command-line options. ./evilns -t 3
To call ben kittridge (aka, bysin) a "whiz kid hacker" is the biggest insult you can give to all the true hackers out there. He's a complete moron with novice coding abilities at best. I can't believe I am seeing someone talk as if this kid is highly intelligent.
I feel sorry for all the lamers using that fahrenheit crap, because thats what it is CRAP. Look at the exploit that was written for it months ago, and this is just ONE route of exploiting his silly code. Probably most if not everyone who has been using fahrenheit has unwittingly gotten themselves "hacked".
CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD EXPLOIT:
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/416edd6c_d16e/bc/My+D
.
*
* Author: [T3]
* Date: July 04, 2004
*
* Compile:
* Linux/BSD:
* gcc -s -fomit-frame-pointer -O2 -o evilns evilns.c
*
* SunOS/Solaris: (not tested)
* gcc -s -fomit-frame-pointer -O2 -o evilns evilns.c -lsocket -lnsl
*
* Usage: Run this as root to run as a fake nameserver on port 53. It
* immediately drops to an unprivileged uid/gid, so don't worry.
* The daemon will respond to all DNS queries with data that will
* hopefully spawn a bindshell on the bulk mailer host.
*
* Type
*
* Example:
* - You own a domain called bubblebutt.com.
* - You have root on a shell called nshost.com.
* - You want to target a mailer on lamer.com running Slackware 9.0.
*
* Steps:
* 1. Run evilns as root on nshost.com with
* 2. Set the nameserver for bubblebutt.com to nshost.com.
* 3. Get your "victim" to add "user@bubblebutt.com" to his mailing list.
* 4. Check your log file periodically to see if you got a hit.
* 5. Telnet to your bindshell port on lamer.com to see if it worked.
*
* NOTES:
* - If it fails, restart the daemon with a different bufaddr/offset.
* - If it works, fix your terminal at the prompt by typing:
* export TERM=vt100;exec bash -i;
*
* Comments:
* This shitty spaghetti code had so many avenues of attack, it was hard
* to pick one to exploit. Go back to CS101 before boasting about what a
* wonderful programmer you are. Here's some classic quotes from bysin:
* "i invented the term > *", "you forget who i am",
* "Fahrenheit 8.0 doesn't have any bugs",
* "i wrote a ddos tool a few years ago, but i can't release it cuz
* it's too dangerous and could take down the entire internet"
*
* Talk like this is just an invitation to ridicule. Excuse me while I go
* laugh my ass off...
*
* !!! THIS CODE IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY (PROOF OF CONCEPT) !!!
*/
Mary Kate Olsen. Which would have to be one of the most ironic deaths ever, Billionaire teen dead of starvation.