Slashdot Mirror
Verified Voting
Joe from the EFF writes "Verified Voting has just gone
live with a number of tools
for all you data-hungry election nerds out there. Amongst the goods:
an election
guide for geeks, a voter's
guide to
electronic voting, the Verifier database
of
county-by-county election information and the Election Incident
Reporting System (EIRS) which will be used on E-day by
attorneys and observers in the field to collect data about election
incidents called into the Election Protection
Coalition's
hotline, 1-866-OUR-VOTE. The geek community is playing a particularly
active role in this year's eleciton via VV's TechWatch
program. However, we could still use the help of the slashdot
community, and all you have to do is click: We need to test the
resiliency of the Verifier database
and the EIRS
before the election.
ouch, the page is already loading very, very, slow, and i'm getting constant run time errors when i scroll over their map...not a good start...
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
"Nothing to see here" and they're already slow - or maybe it's just me.
Looks like there's a lot more work to do. Only a few minutes in and ... The Usual.
Culture is more than commerce
did we just get someone who ASKED for their site to be slashdotted?
Karma: Negative (Mostly affected by dorm trolling)
"Cannot connect to database"
/.
Guess that's what you get for asking to stress test a server from
nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos
Uhhh... we vote for faster servers and more memory in 2004!
I voted early last week. Why would you risk waiting until the last second to vote? Who knows what could go wrong. You could get sick, your car could break down, you could accidentally go to the wrong polling location, etc...
Funny thing is that on the second day of early voting, the polling location that I went to had a 30 minute wait!!! In 2000, on election day, there was no wait whatsoever! I think this year there is going to be a HUGE voter turnout. I am not sure who it is going to favor, but it is an interesting phenomenon.
Could not connect : Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11) on the Verifier DB, and timeout on the other
The most frustrating part is that my county already had perfectly good voting machines: paper-based scantron-type forms where you mark the appropriate rectangle and a simple scanner tabulates the results. Effective, verifiable, well-understood, and relatively inexpensive. In other words, the complete opposite of what the state just bought for us.
In Soviet russia, only old Koreans profit from pictures of Natalie Portman stored on Beowulf Clusters.
Slashdot 1, MySQL Server 0
Test your net with Netalyzr
They had a nice wizard at www.verifiedvoting.org (one of the sites mentioned in the article) that would help tell you what voting technologies exist in your precinct, and what alternatives exist if you want a paper receipt of your vote. (In some places, absentee ballot by snail-mail is the only alternative to trusting Diebold, in other places there are more alternatives.) But, possibly because of the slashdot link, all the wizard tells me now is that it can't connect to the mySQL database.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
The three classical taboo subjects of the workplace.
It is my sincere hope that (relative) sanity will be restored to the US federal government in the near future.
On a personal note, I now know three guys (USMC from this area) dead in Iraq.
Anyhow, Then we can all go back the discussions on religion and sex. Those two don't have a paper trail to properly verify them either.
Seriously, a tight election in 2000 and 2004 have shown what a POS our voting system presently is.
Need to get an upgrade... Shall we outsource the job to India or China?
www.effectiveelectrons.com "chips that work" Analog, RF, Mixed Signal
"Could not connect : Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11)" While only 7 comments in the thread. For what good this info is worth. This is the right link we're supposed ot be testing, right? The EIRS link seems to not have fallen yet at least.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
The database worked fine for me, but the EIRS url is "illegal" according to lynx--probably uses a re-direct.
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
While looking around for information on who/what I am voting for I came across SmartVoter which is run by the non-profit organization League of Women voters.
The site is put together nicely, and by entering your street and zip it prints out a full sample ballot of what you'll be voting on and where to vote. It's completely non-partisian and has a lot of information on each issue, with arguements for and against them.
If you're voting in either California or Ohio I'd definetly check it out before you go to the polls next week.
I'd comment on the links themselves but they're dead.
It looks like Verified Voting just went dead!
Too bad we knocked them out; I wanted to see their voting guide.
See what I've been reading.
I only seem to get this
Could not connect : Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11)
I know this'll be redundant by the time I get through clicking a few more times, typing, copying and pasting...but what the heck.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
That a site dedicated to watching over e-voting is itself not up to the task.
Of course any operation that uses a toy database like MySQL or Access deserves what it gets
Signed,
A ducking and running PostgreSQL addict
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
OK, the guy has a few good points, like that people shouldn't be voting if they aren't familiar with who is running other than who has the coolest campaign commercials. Other than that, it's not 1850 anymore. We shouldn't return to the days of only older men who own land being able to vote. Society belongs to everyone. That being said, everyone needs to take responsibility to become informed about their government and not just fall for the story line of whichever politician says what they want to hear.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Go to Verified Voting site and at the top right click "Edit Preferences" Click OK without typing anything in...
Read the SeCrEt MeSsAgE!
In addition, during this fear driven propaganda-fest, free speech is confused with anti-Americanism. And everything else that has made the US a great place to live has ground to a halt. Even the ill-conceived 'freedom zones' are getting further and further away from this war-happy candidate as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while listening to mouth-breathers spouting Republican talking points, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Republican machine that has run faster from the truth, all the while tossing 'loyalty pledges' and cease and desist orders at anyone who may disagree, despite the millions of people who share the need to be rid of this administration. My Tandy 102 with 32k of RAM demonstrates more resolve and better judgment than Bush most times. From a leadership standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that Bush is a superior candidate for president.
Bush addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to vote for Bush over other more truthful, reasoned, smarter and stable candidates.
And all I got was this ugly error message. Reported promptly to developers, though it's likely due to the /. effect.
c kname,address1,address2,city,state_id,postalcode,p h_office,ph_mobile,ph_fax,ph_home,ph_pager,homepag e,email,imid,imtype_id,notes) values (now(),1,now(),'slashdot', '3ba3637e426f7ef4ad70a3600a6f06b3','A', 'slashdot', 'slashdot', 'slashdot','slashdot', '', '', '', NULL, '09832', '213-230-2302', '', '', 'support@slashdot.org', '', NULL, '')
Db error #1044 in EIRS
Error message was:
Access denied for user: 'vevo4-ro@localhost' to
database 'advokit'
SQL was:
insert into akeir_person (createdon,createdby,lastactivity,username, password,status,firstname,middlenames,lastname,ni
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
There are reports that they were there when the Airborne stopped off before there before heading to baghdad. So it does appear they were lost due to the lack of US forces securing them, but when and how is a bit of a mystery still.
more to the point though, if there had been WMD, it seems that the careless approach to securing these types of sites would likely have put these into the insurgents hands.
On the main page, in the body.
Could not connect : Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11)
zork% mv *.asp
283 files eaten by a grue
I find it amusing that the quote on the front page is from Kevin Shelley (CA Secretary of State) who is up to his eyeballs in scandals including misappropriation of federal voting money on Democratic consultants, accepting checks in his Sacramento office (a crime in CA), receiving laundered campaign contributions, etc. For the curious, here's just a smattering of the articles about him:
/ ch ronicle/archive/2004/09/30/MNG9U91ANA1.DTL/ /www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/ch ronicle/archive/2004/09/30/BAGPE91B571.DTL/ /www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/ch ronicle/archive/2004/10/07/EDGII94AG81.DTL/ /www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/ch ronicle/archive/2004/10/08/BAG4M95J231.DTL/ /www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/ch ronicle/archive/2004/10/11/MNGID9748P1.DTL/ /www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/ch ronicle/archive/2004/10/24/BAGML9F94221.DTL: //www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/ch ronicle/archive/2004/10/27/BAGGE9FSN057.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=
http:
http:
http:
http:
http:
http
Seems like they could have picked someone better to quote.
(My preview is showing odd spaces in the URI - you may have to fix to view the articles)
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
sKerry's "October Suprise" just blew up in his face.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
"Cannot connect to database". You're welcome.
--
make install -not war
This guy Shelley they quote on their web site, in addition to the dirty dealings mentioned in the other post, is talking a good deal but not really enforcing the paper-ballot-option requirement. From the Mercury News:
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) - The Orange County elections office got the OK from California Secretary of State Kevin Shelley to keep quiet about the availability of paper ballots at polling places.
All counties using electronic voting are required by Shelley to also provide paper ballots as an alternative to voters who request them. Shelley's office said in a memorandum Tuesday to elections offices that they "must educate voters" about the availability of paper ballots.
But Orange County was allowed to proceed with plans to offer no signs or vocal notification alerting voters about the availability of paper ballots, Shelley's office said Wednesday.
By discussing the issue with the Board of Supervisors and the media, Orange County Registrar of Voters Steve Rodermund had met the education requirement, the state said.
"It sounds like Steve Rodermund has done the minimum that is required," said Tony Miller, special counsel to Shelley. "He has let it be known publicly."
Registrars in Orange and at least three other counties have directed poll workers not to provide information about the availability of a paper ballot unless asked about it, saying they want to encourage the use of electronic voting.
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
Action: Click on "Take Action Today" today link.
Result: Returns the error "Cannot connect to database".
Hmmm....
But the overall message is clear (and laudable): if you don't exercise enough personal responsibility in your everyday life to make efforts to not be an idiot, don't think that you can make up for four years of lazy thinking/living by just going down to the courthouse and punching a button pretty-much at random.
I prefer the quote "If you aren't going to vote RIGHT, then don't bother to vote at all." (Unfortunately, many people take that statement to be an endorsement of a particular party/candidate rather than an endorsement of a particular way of living. They're usually the ones who wouldn't have voted "right" anyway...)
This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
batting 500 here, EIRS was really slow, but it came up, no such luck for the first link
"It is sad to see a family torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs."
I agree it's not exactly clear, but to say it's wrong, wrong wrong is not fair at this point. So their status at this stage is not known, but it raises serious questions.
p losives/
from http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.ex
"News reports during the conflict indicated that troops from the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division entered the Al Qaqaa site on April 4, 2003, finding thousands of boxes of white powder that preliminary tests determined was an explosive. The 101st Airborne Division troops arrived six days later.
No material under IAEA seal was found, but Pentagon officials said the troops were not under orders to conduct a thorough inspection."
It's a shame that third party candidates don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. At least you know exactly what they would like to do, because they don't have to hide their agendas behind "moderatism".
That said, I'm still voting for Badnarik. It's better to vote for a candidate who won't win than to vote for one who would make a lousy president.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
The site was extremely slow and when it finally appeared I got this message:
:) However, I guess it's better that waiting until the night before the election or not testing at all.
Could not connect : Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11)
Nothing like waiting until a week before the election to test
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Not too long ago, I could just drive to my designated polling place, have them check off my name, vote, and a day or so later, I would read the results in the local paper or watch the results on some "breaking" TV special. Simple and easy.
Now, I have to read countless Geek and non-geek election and voting guides so that I can come to the realization that the candidate I had chosen long ago is still the one I am actually going to vote for. Then, I'll have to file appropriate paperwork for a "conditional ballot" should I decide that my designated polling place is "not convenient" for me. Then, once at the polling place, I'll have to dodge international election monitors, and dodge partisan bullies just to get into the polling place. Then, I have to hope that my votor registration has been logged properly so that I can vote. Once on the voting booth, I then will have to thoroughly discriminate the voting process to ensure that the new e-voting machine actually works and make sure a paper copy prints so that the inevitable recounts can be handled properly. Then, when I get home, I have to monitor the countless state-by-state and county-by-county real-time returns, monitor countless voting fraud sites, all the while filtering out sincere, yet consistently contradictory election commentary on main-stream media outlets.
Oh wait. I forgot. I live in South Carolina where President Bush is already locked in as the winner, so would I be better off just staying at home? Besides, some county in Florida will be deciding the election outcome anyway, right?
Time to shut off the PC and go Outside(TM) for a nice walk.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
After crawling through the public interface to EIRS, I noticed this bit:
https://voteprotect.org/
Is it really necessary to encrypt the public side of this tool? Or any of it for that matter? You could be beating your CPU senseless for no good reason. Try just encrypting the sensitive stuff.
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
So if the weapons weren't there, why are they missing? So basically NBC is saying we think something was here, BUSH'S FAULT! BUSH'S FAULT! Without doing deeper into the facts. This is just another CBS style story.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
- You NEVER spit a raw error message back to an untrusted user, you write it to a (protected) log file. You're leaking information that an attacker can use to compromise the system. The user doesn't need that information, the developer does.
- You NEVER give an untrusted user permission to run arbitrary ad-hoc SQL statements against your database -- that's what Stored Procedures are for. If only know how to use a toy database which doesn't support stored procedures then you have no business whatsoever building trustworthy Enterprise applications.
- You NEVER put your database server and your web server on the same box in a production enviornment. That's just incredibly stupid in terms of both security and scalability.
Do yourself a favor and hire a real systems engineer with real-world experience designing secure, scalable, and reliable mission-critical systems; not some pathetic geek clown who "knows" php + mysql from putting together his 20-hit-per-day Blog server.Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Photos showing a pre-war truck convoy at Al-Qaqaa would comport, Baier said, with a January 2003 report by the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency revealing that 158 tons of the high explosive RDX had already gone missing from the site.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/28/1045 14.shtml
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
Could not connect : Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11)
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
That's awfully nice of the Slashdot editors. Lets Slashdot the living hell out of these important servers at the very point and time they are supposed to be used. Can you be any more inconsiderate?
:)
Er, I hope that was mean to be funny...
If it wasn't then you might stop and consider the fact that come election day those servers are going to suffer a hell of a lot more than a mere slashdotting!!!
Personally I'd rather they crash and burn now with a couple days to fix the problems...
Agreed, they were under IAEA seal. Biggest question in my mind is
Given we knew about them, why werent the troops under orders to check for them, and failing that, why wasnt' a follow up visit made after the invasion to determine the status of the munitions?
The russian angle seems highly improbable, but I'll await further developments here.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
slashdot as free load testing utility
...remember good 'ol times when IP used to mean Internet Protocol....
Apparently now, there is evidence that russians were at the facility with transport vehicles prior to invasion.
If by evidence you mean Drudge and the Washington Times, I laugh at you.
Seriously. How does it help the Russians to move the stuff for Saddam?
I've noticed that technology exists already for anonymous verification of lottery tickets and gambling bets by the bearer. An optically read hash of the transaction is printed and saved by the issuer and can be verified at any network location.
It should be possible for some of the same technologies to be applied to voting. AFAICT, the big hangup is limiting the paper to official boxes and official terminals to discourage vote selling where a person could produce a ticket and collect $10, a bottle of whiskey, or whatever for voting a verifiable ticket.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
More facts to comprehend /.'ers:
For their part Kerry's friends at the NewYorkTimes and CBSNews have tried to do their part. The problem is - the truth is getting out.
First - yesterday one of the commanders of the 2nd Brigade of the 101st Airborne strongly refuted the claims made by Kerry out on the campaign trail using the flimsy NYTimes piece as cover.
Second - soldiers of the 3rd Infantry Division AS WELL AS the 101st 2nd Brigade are now on the record stating that they did thorough searches of the Al QaQaa and there were no weapons there.
Third - By continually making these criticisms Kerry is now trying to parce phrases saying he criticized only the President and not the troops. The troops are the ones who were responsible for guarding any weapons that may have been found and they are now taking Kerry's criticisms personally.
Fourth - The total amount of the weapons that were even at the facility is now being reported by both ABC News and Fox News ranged from 3 tons to perhaps 158 tons. (Either figure is significantly smaller than the 380 that the NYTimes and John Kerry have been using.)
Fifth - CBS News has now had to admit that it was in fact planning on releasing this as a hit piece on Sunday night originally. Thus not giving the President or any of his team time to respond.
Sixth - Two of Kerry's top advisors have had to admit that they in fact DO NOT know what happened.
Seventh - Bush has responded and is now on the trail letting voters know that John Kerry was willing to use false information, to denigrade the troops, and to manipulate the public - and thus prove Bush's premise that Kerry will say anything to win.
Eighth - According to Bill Gertz it is now entirely likely that some Russian special ops troops were employed by Saddam to remove this stockpile and other stockpiles in the immediate run up to the invasion.
Ninth - Our own defense satellite photos show trucks spiriting away large quantities of something in the days before any of our troops arrived.
Tenth - As of the writing of this entry - Kerry is still repeating the charge of incompetence on the part of our troops and forces.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
Nice idea, but doesn't seem to work for Connecticut or Maryland (the two I tried.)
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
A. perhaps they were paid to by Iraq
B. perhaps it was in their "best interest" (eg. they sold it to Iraq illegally)
C. perhaps they were paid to by the country they brought it to
Full-Featured GPL Web Hosting Control Panel
take off your blinders for a minute and reread your own posts.
The 3rd ID has said there were explosives there, although the ones they found did not have seals on them.
Kerry has not attacked the troops, but the plan which called for a very small force and a quick strike to baghdad. good for a quick war, but not sufficent to secure all the sites that needed securing. BTW this is not a new argument, in fact there are many, many sites where looters have obtained munitions as there has been no/little security at many sites.
Yes, there might have been less than 380tons as the facts stand now, but there is still a very significant amount that is unaccounted for.
I for one want to know the real story. If the facts ultimately vindicate the US commands actions, then that's all the better, however until we know what really happened, it's imperative that we question the appropriate people until the facts are known.
I do not accept that we should not ask the hard questions when so much is at stake.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So what is this site supposed to do?
Suppose I dropped of my early ballot yesterday.
Today I learn the Canidate A for the State House is implicated in a scandal. Canidate G for corporation commission is getting "legal" contributions from the electric utility. It's discovered that Canidate Q for local school board is on the teacher's union board of directors. And, presidential Canidate ? actuall voted for something I don't support.
Now, how do I change my vote?
I have seen too many elections, especially local ones, where important negative or positive details did not come out until the last, high pressure days before the election. I'd rather wait to get all the information possible before I make my choice.
(From Arizona, where we have early voting.)
but how crash proof is the system? And does it leave a paper trail?? That's what I want to know.
Free Desk
They actually asked for it, man.
Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?
I'd like to know the real story behinds Kerry's 4 month tour in Vietnam. I'd like know the story behind his medical records. Stories I'll never know the answer too.
The questions have already been answered. The stuff wasn't there and was long gone before we even were in the country.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
https://voteprotect.org/?display=EIRMapNation
The 1-866-OUR-VOTE election hotline is open today, so you can watch incidents come into the system in real time. This system will be used on election day to dispatch lawyers and techies to trouble spots in real time. Go to http://electionprotection2004.org or send mail to volunteer@verifiedvoting.org to volunteer.
[I am the lead programmer for EIRS.]
[
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It wasn't meant to be funny at all. I was as serious as I usually am. They posted 7 ( 7!! ) links to the same website, verifiedvoting.org. 7! 2 links to voteprotect.org. And 1 to electionprotection2004.org. That's a helluva lot of links. That's begging for a slashdotting. I wish they'd post that many links to SCO's various websites when they post a SCOX article. You would think that PETC would step in here. (People for the Ethical Treatment of Computers) ;-) Sometimes I kill me. :-) Click away, gents
This info incase you need it for debugging/etc...Thanks for the other link.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
[I'm the lead programmer for EIRS.]
The EIRS site seems to be holding up fine for me, with a surprisingly modest hardware investment.
Yes, there are a lot of things I would structure differently if I were coding this from scratch -- but that's not how the Real World operates. This site was developed primarily by a single developer (me) over a period of a few months. I didn't have the luxury of starting with a clean slate; I had to build on existing tools.
Furthermore, with no budget (because this is a non-profit) hardware is *always* difficult to come by. I would have liked to roll out a lot more machines, but it was not to be.
The current EIRS site is two web front ends talking to a single database machine. And it's currently quite usable for me, at least.
[Although I'm noticing that DNS seems to be very slow -- unfortunately that's out of my control.]
Feel free to disabuse me of my naivete. And check out https://voteprotect.org/?display=EIRMapNation while you're at it -- this is a real-time map being filled with incidents being reported at the 1-866-OUR-VOTE hotline (remember that number, if you need it on election day!). The core of EIRS is the ability to respond in real time to reported incidents and dispatch lawyers and technologists.
And, yes, the machines serving the hotlines are entirely distinct from the ones which slashdot is digilently trying to take down.
[
Might want to take a peek here and see how it fits in with what you say.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The last I've read, and the source for which I've quoted is that the 3rd ID did find explosives, but not sealed explosives, but neither did they do a exhastive search. If you have a source saying otherwise please share it. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
But again, this is slightly off the main cause of concern for me and others, and why it should be explored. That question is why hadn't any forces been there to do a search and secure anything remaining prior to the discovery that it's all gone?
And yes, I am aware of the fact that we have secured and destroyed a large amount of munitions, and thats good, but OTOH, there is a lot we have not, and most of that has ended up in the hands of those that oppose us.
Kerry (and for that matter Bush's) military records have nothing to do with this.
Does this mean I won't be able to trick sexy poll workers into examining my HANGING chad?
Seriously though, I swear that pregnant chad aint mine !
Here's another site that works for all states:
vote-smart
A lot of information here about candidates for both state and federal offices, including finances, voting records, and interest group ratings. Unfortunately they don't have information about state/county/city level propositions.
That's a good question. I'm on the HardOCP team and am #45 of many thousand (I'm not sure what it's up to now). HardOCP appears to have gotten started sooner though (team number 33 as compared to 11326). I wish more people would contribute. This is a much more useful use of CPU cycles that distributed.net IMHO.
BTW, I was yanking their crank. It never fails, someone else dis's the editor and they get +5000 Funny. I do it and get -USNationalDebt Troll. I guess I just need more practice.
That's three tractor trailer loads, tops, two if they really loaded it up. Not really a problem or a huge convoy needed. Coupla forklifts, an hour, loaded, vamoose. It's not like they would have needed this huge number of trucks or that it would have been anything of note from sat pics. If they did use smaller trucks, it was for a larger reason, best guess is overland travel off the roads, and also a more widely dispersed cache, ie, different destinations. Plus, it would have been safer.
With that said, I think saddam would have been nuts to not hedge his bets and move some stuff out way before the war, and syria would have been his safest bet. He had plenty of notice. Every other nation of note does it, store war materiel outside their borders, it's called pre positioned supplies, it's quite common really. The US has done it almost forever, and we still do.
And with THAT said I still don't see him as being a threat to the US before the invasion. A threat to Israel, yes, to the US, no. And I don't think he was a good guy, but I can think of several regimes more deserving of change than his was.
I think war should be last resort, then if decided upon, actually declared and fought to win. What we have now is just organized mass looting, caged inside of a lot of jingoistic rhetoric and half-truths. It was planned in advance, the PNAC docs show this. 9-11 was the excuse they needed, the "pearl harbor like event" they planned to use for an invasion into the middle east.
Your troll was fine, just too well written. A real rant would have been shorter.
Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?
Looks like [paste your favorite conspiracy perps here] finally got to intelligent voting. I just visited the site to RTFA and got 'Cannot connect to database'. My personal guess is that Ashcroft hired web-monkeys to overload their MySQL database.
/. After 15 reloads, the page finally came up.
oh shit...
Nevermind. I just realized that advancement of voting integrity cannot possibly withstand the movement of masses from
Thank you for reading One Man's Opinion. No participation necessary. Offer void where deemed by law or PATRIOT Act.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think you'll find that all of the 3rd party candidates have a dedicated following that genuinely like their candidate.
However, part of appealing sufficiently to the masses means you lose the real loyalty that makes people really like you.
Until America changes its voting system from FPP to something decent, that won't change.
Is that election incident map for this election? And live?
Do you have a version of it normed for incidents per population? Otherwise, I would expect the populus states to have the most incidents...
Since the last election, we no longer assume that the election process is infallible. Already, we're hearing stories of falsified registrations and registrations being destroyed. I'm guessing that starting around mid-day on Nov. 2 we'll begin hearing about proposed legal challenges to district election results. Not just a few, but hundreds. By Nov 7, the whole situation will be hopelessley confused, with legions of lawyers working to resolve irregularities and simultaneously raising new challenges to whatever result has been handed us.
For my part, living in IL, I'll cast my vote for W, not because I don't think that he's a moron, but rather because, after weeks of deliberation, I cannot, as an OB/Gyn practicing in a doctor-unfriendly state, cast a ballot in favor a ticket which includes a personal injury lawyer who made his fortune exploiting my profession.
Of course, IL will be won by Kerry, so the only reason for me or any other Illini to go to the polls is for the sake of participating.
All's I'm saying is, whether you're following Iraq or Scott Peterson or football or whatever, get ready to refocus on the post-election debacle, as it promises to be a good show indeed.
the wtimes link is broken, the abc link says essentially the same thing that I quoted earlier.
that coupled with the new video showing explosives and other ordinance and the case becomes even more compelling
Badnarik, so I'm voting for him.
I know you're desperate to justify Bush's continued existence, so you probably don't care about evidence, but here's some pictures anyway. Knock yourself out.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html?cat=1
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3741.html?cat=1
Visit the
Well, for one thing, I think that the state Secretary of State is the finally authority in elections in any particular state. At least it is in the state I live in. So that does make him an authority on election matters. That's probably why they quoted him.
Furthermore, lets look at that quote: This seems like a true statement no matter who said it.
And I remember hearing that all this stuff started coming up when he started taking action against the electronic voting machines.
And lets face it, nearly all politicians are scumbags.
They usually ignore each others indiscretions.
One hand washes the other and all that.
Nobody died when Nixon lied.
I'm meeting you half way you stupid hippies!
Haha, that is one of the better analogies I've heard about the war in Iraq. Too bad I don't have mod points.
The more I hear about the wide range of US systems the worse they look. Voting is already happening and it is October? Polling booths didn't have paper copies of the electoral roll for the area - have to ring the state capital? You get a choice of paper or sometime punch cards or touchscreens or somthing that looks like a poker machine? Get your shit together guys, it looks like it did need the supreme court to sort things out. People will pretend to be dead people and vote, or will vote multiple times since you have such a long timespan - and you need to be organised to deal with things like that.
After 2000 you would think prototype voting machines and other weirdness would be banned from the process. I bet the stupid punch card system that became an international laughing stock is still in use. You don't replace pen and paper just for the sake of it - you should only do it if the system is an improvement. Labour costs are not an issue in elections, since it is easy to get an enormous workforce on the day for trivial amounts - and the consequences of failure (very expensive court cases) are such that a few extra people makes sense.
So why do I care? Australia is a client state, run by a man called by your presisdent "the man of steel (that he can sell to the USA in eighteen years time under the terms of the free trade agreement). We don't want Australia dictated to by another Nixon, so we want to see a clean election over there without a hint of criminal activity.
The site doesn't work. As this is /., can't we do better? If not for this election, something encrypted and p2p for 2006?
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
Stories from the future..
November 1, 2004
Time Magazine Covers Verified Voting and TechWatch Program
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Looks fair, at face value. But I wonder if his goal wouldn't be better served by pushing for the electoral college doing their original job and picking a president on the strength of their presumed more informed opinion.
'Course, then you get into a whole other issue, about how democratic that really is. But then, he's already established that he's not very concerned about that part of the process, right?
It is a fallacy to assume you have the right not to vote.
Voting should be mandatory for every single tax paying citizen. Refusing to vote ought to carry the same criminal penalties as refusing to pay your taxes.
Our current culture is such that we believe we have these 'rights' to do pretty much anything we wish. To a certain degree, that will always be true. However, the consequences of these actions must be taken into consideration.
There is a definite, measurable consequence to refusing to vote. Even if a voter despises both (or all three, five, ten, etc.) candidates, they are morally bound to say "I choose no one" and have that voice count as well.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Regardless of your belief that our country is a democracy or republic by definition, it is imperative that each citizen who pays taxes must also record their choices during each election.
Perhaps if we made it a game, to capture the attention of all voters. You get a point for each election you vote in. After you get, say, 10 points, you are entitled to a double vote at the next scheduled election.
Oh, and to the poster who commented that he cannot find his voting precinct in Texas: all county courthouses are participating in early voting. You do NOT need to find your Election Day voting location if you choose to go cast your ballot early. I live in Williamson County and voted yesterday. It took, including parking, all of 10 minutes.
--Disgruntled Citizen
Whenever Mrs. Fitch breaks wind, we beat the dog.
Well, I don't know if I'd say that -- I mean, how "democratic" (or, maybe more to-the-point, "fair"...dang but I hate to invoke the f-word!) is it for you and me to expend the effort to look into the candidates' strengths and weaknesses (and those of their views/plans...or at least their promises) and, after careful and responsible evaluation make an informed choice, but some schmuck with less responsibility than a field mouse gets to cast an equally-effective vote? It seems almost like if you went to college for four to six years (and work extra hard to pay your way through a "good" one rather than a "bad" one), get good marks and take extra classes, etc. to make sure you're entitled to your degree and the job(s) the highschool "Career Day" counselor promised (heh heh), then the big interview with Acme Corp. comes up and the personnel manager says "Well, to be fair I have to let you know there are other applicants than you for this job -- one of whom has no training OR experience OR initiative OR ambition -- I'll be flipping my coin to decide who gets the position this afternoon and my secretary'll let you know on Monday. Have a nice weekend!"
At this point, I think I'd happily settle for knowing that my vote did "count" for an equal portion of the overall electoral "power" wielded by the entire populace - as it is right now my state (Tennessee) has 11 "electoral votes" and (for instance) California has 55. The way I see it, that makes my single vote worth about 1/5th of what a vote by a Californian's counts (partly because the electoral votes are divvied-out based on population rather than registration; all a state has to do to get a big hunk of electoral power is to have a lot of people living there, whether or not ANY of them actually vote. In other words, if each and every Tennessean voted, we'd all be fighting over those 11 electoral votes, but if only ONE Californian voted he'd be, single-handedly, exercising MILLIONS of times more influence over the election than any of us. That's certainly a far-fetched example but I frequently find it entertaining, if not always particularly enlightening, to exaggerate a problem to ridiculous proportions in order to illustrate it's weaknesses -- a sort of "philosophy by caricaturization".)
This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
OH, BTW, I'm sorry for calling you a bonehead. I was grumpy when I wrote my original message. Please accept my appologies for the unwarranted slur.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Bush voters have been misled from what Bush's actual positions are. According to polls, Bush voters have no idea what Bush actually stands for (and the same is not true of Kerry voters). Don't believe me? Click on the link. Here's an excerpt:
"Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?"
:)
I guess because:
- not everyone feels any need to identify that strongly with slashdot
- not everyone makes contribution a social thing (i.e. they don't join any teams)
- there are other grid projects than folding@home
Nice sig though, the more who contribute to grid projects the better imo. It's all win-win
this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
SETI@HOME team was in the thousands i think.
Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?