Dell Teams Up With SUSE

good news by dns_server · 2004-10-29 00:07 · Score: 5, Interesting

things are starting to look good for linux, we now have a veriety of different companys that are starting to support linux. hopefully this will mean drivers will be better supported (atleast for the hardware provided).

Re:good news by Methuseus · 2004-10-29 01:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

I actually have a couple dells, 6 and 8 years old, still running on all the original hardware. They may be pretty slow compared to newer computers, but they still run. Now, a Dell from 2-3 years ago is probably not running anymore unless the person got the extended warranty, since Dell's quality went to shit in the past 4 years.

I agree that I largely hate Dell machines, but when you get them free you generally don't argue. I also hate most other machines, but lately Gateway and eMachines have had good quality. The only problems I've seen with *them* in the past 2 years have been user error. You are correct about NEC and IBM being probably the most stable prefabs, however.

You also don't tell us how old you are, just that you have been building computers since you were 11. You could be 13 now for all we know. (at least for what the average user knows)

--
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
Re:good news by TykeClone · 2004-10-29 01:26 · Score: 1, Insightful

The only newer Dell that I've worked on that wouldn't work is one that got fried by lightning last spring. That doesn't prove that they're making high quality machines anymore than your statement proves that they're not.
That's a little harsh sounding (sorry about that), but I've not seen any problems with them. And at least they don't plaster the new machines with stickers saying how great they are (HP/Compaq and eMachines do that - yuck!) - that alone should be worth a bit.

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A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Re:good news by AKnightCowboy · 2004-10-29 02:02 · Score: 2

things are starting to look good for linux, we now have a veriety of different companys that are starting to support linux. hopefully this will mean drivers will be better supported (atleast for the hardware provided).
You could've posted this in 1996 and it would've been equally true unfortunately. I remember similar statements back then on comp.os.linux.advocacy and they've turned out to be just as false when it comes to fortelling Linux's future. I've come to accept Linux will never be anything more than a fringe operating system, but there's nothing wrong with that. Hell, MacOS is a fringe operating system compared to the numbers Windows has yet MacOS X is one of the nicest systems I've ever used.
Re:good news by BlackHawk-666 · 2004-10-29 02:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

I used to work for a company that supplied Dell servers for the web sites we created. We had maybe 20 of these machines, and at least five of them had major issues in the first few years. One broke down so many times that eventually every single part of it had been replaced several times except the case, which I was threatening to smash in order to force them to replace this awful machine. And yeh, it was a critical production machine.
When I got a new workstation from Dell it took them 56 days to get a working one delivered to me after I told them the one they first delivered was broken. That's two fucking months!!! The reason it was broken, for the curious, is because they put the heatsink on top of the CPU but didn't strap it into place, so it wasn't doing any heat sinking at all.
I'm sure there are people out there who haven't had trouble with Dell, but for me it's always going to be a reputable company like IBM or HP in future, Dell is cheap (but costly) rubbish.

--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Re:good news by Scumbumbo · 2004-10-29 02:57 · Score: 5, Interesting

Dell's hardware (at least on the server side) has always been well supported in Linux thanks to their work with Red Hat. I'm hoping this latest move makes their management utilities work better with SuSE.

A few months back I mentioned to our Sr. Dell rep that I wished they supported SuSE (preferably by releasing tarballed sources) with their management utilities. The "Red Hat only" afacli RAID management RPM installs and runs great on SuSE, but installing the other management stuff (specifically for the DRAC management) is a pain in the arse. She seemed really interested in my comment and kept asking me questions regarding my experiences with SuSE on Dell. Makes me wonder if she either knew something was coming down the pipe or if she was actually high-level enough at Dell to be one of the instigators of this.
Re:good news by gnuLNX · 2004-10-29 03:43 · Score: 1

Not totally true. I bought a dell workstation 3-4 years ago with redhat installed on it. Everything worked great...except the ethernet card....I installed mandrake and the card worked fine...funny thing is it was a 3COM card which is usually supported very well.

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what?
Re:good news by Gherald · 2004-10-29 04:10 · Score: 3, Informative

> I remember similar statements back then on comp.os.linux.advocacy and they've turned out to be just as false when it comes to fortelling Linux's future. I've come to accept Linux will never be anything more than a fringe operating system, but there's nothing wrong with that. Hell, MacOS is a fringe operating system compared to the numbers Windows has yet MacOS X is one of the nicest systems I've ever used.

So the progress Linux is making is slower than it's advocates and fanboys would like, but this does in no way imply no progress has been made, or is unlikely to happen in the future. I believe your use of the word "never" is an equally unfounded exageration. The server market is still growing, the desktop market is growing, and upcoming OSS software like OpenOffice 2.0 and Firefox 1.0 will only help to further our cause.

The 2.6 branch is becomming more production ready, as well. I'm running 2.6.9 on Gentoo and much more satisfied than I was with, say, 2.6.5

As for MacOS X, clearly it will allways be a fringe operating system simply because ppc and ppc64 are fringe architectures. The Linux kernel has no such limitations... quite the opposite, in fact.

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The unofficial /. digest
Re:good news by TykeClone · 2004-10-29 04:11 · Score: 1

Bummer - that is a series of bad luck! Were you getting lower end equipment, or was it the high end stuff that was hassling you?

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A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Re:good news by zakezuke · 2004-10-29 04:44 · Score: 1

I actually have a couple dells, 6 and 8 years old, still running on all the original hardware ...
Now, a Dell from 2-3 years ago is probably not running anymore unless the person got the extended warranty, since Dell's quality went to shit in the past 4 years.

The key difference between a dell from 6-8 years ago and a dell from 2-3 years ago is the use of proprietary power supply connectors and often proprietary NTX cases with riser cards was very common. This being said, if your 6+ year old Dell died, it's likely you can't drop in a standard motherboard or power supply. But for the most part, this isn't necessary so long as you are happy with a socket 5/7 class system. But this was a non-issue for them because the average user isn't going to upgrade their system above and beyond more memory. Let's face it, paying someone to do it isn't worth it. I have one Dimension XPS p166 that I upgraded with an Asus p3v4x motherboard and standard power supply. The old motherboard was retired simply because 166 MHz wasn't cutting the mustard anymore, but the motherboard and memory are still as solid as the day it was built. I know many people with vintage Dells. They are business surplus, sold for dirt cheap, and are damned reliable beasts.

A Dell under 3 years old, as far as I'm aware, is going to have a ATX power supply and ATX / Micro-ATX case where off the self replacements are possible.

I'll agree that Dell quality has fallen in the past few years. Let's face it, they are offering systems for a base price of $300 after rebates. After CPU, Drives, OEM licenses it doesn't leave much money invested in the core system. While they work, you notice bizzaro hard to diagnose problems, like a 56k that works pretty well in another box won't connect above 28.8 in the Dell unless you swap out the power supply. But what do you expect for $300.00?

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There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Re:good news by mre5565 · 2004-10-29 12:57 · Score: 1

Commercial UNIX vendors once boasted of their
server wins, and in the end, MS
ate their workstation business, then
went on to feast on the low end server business.

Good news would be that Dell and SUSE
teamed up to support Linux on desktops
and laptops. Linux is gaining server share
for sure, but unless there is attention on
the desktop side, Linux will ultimately be
marginalized on the low end, and become
a "luxury" server O/S in the commercial
space.

You'd think Dell would see this, and use
desktop Linux to force Microsoft to drive
its prices down.
Re:good news by BlackHawk-666 · 2004-10-30 05:24 · Score: 1

It was across the range of equipment. The problems were mainly with the servers, which ran the gamut from dual proc web servers with RAID5 up to some beefy quad proc machines for SQL duties. The workstations were by and large of OK quality, when they remembered to put on the heatsinks, and while they weren't either not sending them, or sending ones we didn't order.

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Re:good news by TykeClone · 2004-10-30 14:57 · Score: 1

So were the workstations that were problematic the Optiplex, Precisions, or the Dimensions. I've been buying the 8xxx series of Dimensions (mainly, with a couple of 4xxx) for the past couple of years and have had no problems with them. I typically upgrade only about 10 workstations per year at work and maybe help people out with 5 or 10 more, so I don't have a huge population of machines to say anything more than I've had no real bad luck with their machines.
Hope that you have better luck with IBM!

--
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Re:good news by BlackHawk-666 · 2004-10-31 03:18 · Score: 1

The workstations were mainly Dimensions, with a couple of precisions.

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Future partnerships... by jmcmunn · 2004-10-29 00:08 · Score: 4, Interesting

If we keep seeing these types of partnerships, perhaps more PC manufacturers will jump on board and start shipping Linux PC's as well. Even if it is just a Linux Live CD for someone to play with, at least then they can get their feet wet.

Re:Future partnerships... by treval · 2004-10-29 00:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

It may be just me but I think that Redhat has totally lost the plot since they stopped producing a desktop distribution.

Suse certainly seem to be gaining ground quickly and I think one of the main reasons may be the complete range of products from Suse Personal through to Enterprise and without the restrictive licencing that RH have tried to impose.

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Your attitude is infectious...
Re:Future partnerships... by hussar · 2004-10-29 00:24 · Score: 1

Even if it is just a Linux Live CD for someone to play with, at least then they can get their feet wet.

I am assuming that you mean that the PC manufacturer would be including a Linux Live CD with a machine that has Windows pre-installed on it. I am quite certain that doing something like that would cause the manufacturer no end of problems with Microsoft.

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Bureaucracy loves company.
Re:Future partnerships... by RAMMS+EIN · 2004-10-29 00:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

Perhaps it's just that Red Hat realized that one size fits all solutions aren't. They then chose to specialize on the enterprise. Not that odd; after all, that's where the money is. Now they can boast all their years of experience, plus their dedication to enterprise needs - something I think few if any other distributors can claim.

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Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Re:Future partnerships... by treval · 2004-10-29 00:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

You are probably right however the real volume market is on the desktop. The desktop is what drives the user applications and it's user apps sold in bulk that generate major revenues.

Just ask Billy G...

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Your attitude is infectious...
Re:Future partnerships... by smurf975 · 2004-10-29 00:42 · Score: 1

I think the desktop market is imporantant as it will increase usability (I know most linux admins swear by the shell but still it a nice option to have).

Also having a large platform to do free q&a of software and hardware (exoctic) the chances of something going wrong is bigger with the more users you have which is good as you want to iron all the wrinkels out before you deploy the software on a mission critical project.

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-- I don't buy it, I grow it.
Re:Future partnerships... by FatherOfONe · 2004-10-29 00:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

The point I think your are missing is that kids who use to get RedHat to try it out and play with it will no longer do that. What they could do is get RedHat for near free and then get comfortable with it. Now they have to try Fedora. Most won't.

So someone can get SuSe for near free (box version) and then try it out. Then they can use an enterprise version when they need it in a business.

My only issue is that companies like Oracle and IBM are trying to make it impossible to load their software on anything but the enterprise versions of software. This will come back to haunt them. Those same new "developers" will just use other tools (i.e. PostGresql, MySql, Jboss etc), instead of Oracle or Websphere. IBM should have learned this with their mistake of smalltalk.

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The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Re:Future partnerships... by leonbloy · 2004-10-29 01:14 · Score: 1

But, if I'm not mistaken, Suse Enterprise Server 9 requires a license to use YOU (YaST Online Update) to download updates and patches.
And that's not free ( nor cheap for me... but of course, it's an "enterprise" "server").
I wonder what are the terms of the license in this (Dell) case.
Re:Future partnerships... by GreyPoopon · 2004-10-29 01:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

I am quite certain that doing something like that would cause the manufacturer no end of problems with Microsoft.
Yes, and such a response may cause Microsoft no end of problems with the DoJ. If there was *ever* a time for manufacturers to do something like this, it is now. Although Microsoft only received a "slap on the wrist," they are nevertheless being watched more closely at the moment.

--
GreyPoopon
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Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Re:Future partnerships... by rseuhs · 2004-10-29 01:37 · Score: 1

Perhaps it's just that Red Hat realized that one size fits all solutions aren't.
Just because RedHat always was a mediocre desktop (Gnome) doesn't mean that you can't provide a package that works on both servers and desktops very well.
It's software after all and with DVDs there's almost no limit on what you can ship.
Re:Future partnerships... by Rudeboy777 · 2004-10-29 02:08 · Score: 1

Suse certainly seem to be gaining ground quickly and I think one of the main reasons may be the complete range of products from Suse Personal through to Enterprise

Don't think that Suse won't turn their back on the little guy. In fact the free Suse Personal is no more. This effectively means I likely won't ever have Suse on a desktop or server ever again since I'm not going to buy before I try. Now there's no way to try without paying.

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From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc
Re:Future partnerships... by O0o0Oblubb!O0o0O · 2004-10-29 02:52 · Score: 2, Informative

Even with the release of a personal edition missing, SuSE still lets you try out every release either as a LiveCD or as a completely free ftp install (which in the past pretty much equalled the Personal version).

AFAIK, the difference between SuSE Personal and SuSE Professional was just the amount of software (=CDs) shipped with it. Apart from that, they were the same anyway.

Albeit, the ftp release is always about a month late compared to the official CD release but I reckon if you get something completely free, you should be able to accept a slight delay.
Re:Future partnerships... by sigaar · 2004-10-29 03:04 · Score: 1

Well, there are three live evaluations versions, one with KDE, one with Gnome and one DVD with I assume both.

ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/live-cd-9.2/

Then you can head over to ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.2 and install over ftp, or download that hole directory, stick it on a hard disc or on your network somewhere and install from there.

And that's the pro version, by the way.

The only thing you can't get so far are the iso images, but I'm willing to bet that's going to change at some time.

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sigaar
Re:Future partnerships... by sigaar · 2004-10-29 03:07 · Score: 1

Just noticed that ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.2 doesn't contain anything yet. It usually takes about a month after the box set is released before the FTP goes up.

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sigaar
Re:Future partnerships... by Pros_n_Cons · 2004-10-29 04:00 · Score: 1

It may be just me but I think that Redhat has totally lost the plot since they stopped producing a desktop distribution.

No, It's not just you, but you are still wrong non the less. Ever tried putting "red hat desktop" in google search? I found the first 20 or so results interesting, especially the 1st one. "http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/desktop/" I understand there is a FUD war going on and all but sheesh.

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-- "of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
Re:Future partnerships... by Rudeboy777 · 2004-10-29 04:40 · Score: 1

I thank you and the fellow below you for pointing that out. I wasn't aware and stand corrected.

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From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc
Re:Future partnerships... by Donny+Smith · 2004-10-29 05:10 · Score: 1

> This effectively means I likely won't ever have Suse on a desktop or server ever again since I'm not going to buy before I try. Now there's no way to try without paying

What's it to you if you'd buy it anyway?
Like, you _must_ try it out otherwise you could make a big mistake and spend 90 bucks for software that doesn't work or something?

Besides, SLES9 ISOs are available for free download (although there's nothing to see, it's just an Linux OS with a new kernel which one can try on any of the free distributions - Gentoo, Fedora, etc). Big deal.

Windows XP? by darkmeridian · 2004-10-29 00:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm sorry, but why does the top of that article say, "Dell recommends Windows XP Professional"?

What kind of mixed messages are they sending there?

--
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/

Re:Windows XP? by KyleJacobson · 2004-10-29 00:15 · Score: 1

Dell recommends XP because everyone at /. loves Windows, and everything associated with MS

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I have worse karma than M$.
Re:Windows XP? by erick99 · 2004-10-29 00:17 · Score: 1

It's an ad. It's not an mixed message, Dell recommends and provides both Windows and Linux.

--
http://www.busyweather.com/
Re:Windows XP? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 00:18 · Score: 3, Interesting

I think Microsoft pay/threaten/reward (delete according to bias) system builders to say that, a lot of ads contain the same phrasing with different manufacturers pasted in.

So it's probablary just part of a standard page template, and not some conspiracy on Dell's part to confuse customers.
Re:Windows XP? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 00:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well it means:

Dell is paid by Microsoft to recommend it's OS. ("$COMPNAME recommends Windows XP" is so generic it can't be a accident, it's marketting.)

Dell supports Linux because that's what it's customer wants.
Re:Windows XP? by miyako · 2004-10-29 00:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

it's probably part of some agreement with microsoft. Dell is big enough to be able to sell hardware with whatever OS they want on it, but not quite big enough to do it without still kissing Microsoft's ass while doing it with a "Dell recommends Windows" message.
As a matter of fact though, I've seen the same message on IBM and HPs websites, I specifically remember thinking it was funny when I was looking into buying one of the HP notebooks with Linux pre-installed. The specific model didn't offer windows as an OS option IIRC, but it still has a message "HP Recommends Windows XP Professional" on the site.
This leads me to believe that some term microsoft gives to OEMs for them to get copies of windows cheaper, is that they have to have this message on every buy/customize page for all their hardware.

--
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Re:Windows XP? by DarkMantle · 2004-10-29 00:23 · Score: 0

It's actually quite simple.... in the summary it states SUSE Enterprise Linux installed directly on Dell servers.

The key word here is Dell SERVERS. While linux is a great server environment (stable, reliable, secure) it is not designed for most people using there desktop to do online banking and using an IM program.

I love Linux Too.... It's just not ready for the desktop (yet)

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DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Re:Windows XP? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 00:29 · Score: 0

Some day we will have a monochromatic Linux world and, while we are at it, everything else exactly the way you think is correct. Then your life will be bearable. I mean, really, do you work yourself up into a shrill, self-righteous lather like this every morning?
Re:Windows XP? by I+confirm+I'm+not+a · 2004-10-29 00:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

It's an ad that's always amused me: Dell recommendsWindows XP Professional, but supplies Windows XP Home (unless you choose to "upgrade").

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This is where the serious fun begins.
Re:Windows XP? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 00:34 · Score: 1, Informative

From http://infoworld.com/article/04/10/11/HNmshaggle_1 .html :

"When Microsoft licenses PC makers (OEMs, or original equipment manufacturers in Microsoft terminology) to install Windows on machines they manufacture, it often grants them a discount in order to provide them with funds to help with their marketing. Under its Market Development Agreement (MDA), Microsoft requires that the advertising take a certain form in order to qualify for the agreement, including that advertisements include a tagline such as "(OEM) recommends Windows XP (Overview, Articles, Company) Professional." ... Microsoft has agreed to clarify in the MDA that advertisements for PCs sold without Windows need not include this tagline, and that PCs sold with more than one operating system, including a non-Microsoft operating system, may also include language recommending other operating systems."
Re:Windows XP? by Big+Mark · 2004-10-29 00:35 · Score: 1

Yes. To clarify, they recommend whichever OS is best suited to the task. This is because unlike most slashdotters businesses don't care about Microsoft's dominance/hegemony/whatever, they want the best "solution", which may or may not be Linux.
Re:Windows XP? by glenrm · 2004-10-29 00:38 · Score: 1

"Dell recommends Windows XP Professional" or "Tested with Centrino" or "Intel Inside" all are little jingos that if you put them on your page you get marketing money from MSFT and INTC, I believe. Anybody confirm this?

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Onward to the Aether Sphere!
Re:Windows XP? by tomstdenis · 2004-10-29 00:41 · Score: 1

Not ready for the desktop? I think the biggest reason why hardware [specially laptops] seem to "not work in linux" isn't because Linux isn't capable, because it is. Not because the driver infrastructure is lacking, because it isn't. But because hardware developers cut corners and provide Window drivers only.

If hardware manufacturers actually followed standards and didn't "upgrade" chipsets [specially on stable products like 802.11b cards... Realtek anyone?] every two months to be "new" we'd have systems that work fine in Linux.

I think Linux based distroes are [in particular Gentoo] just as capable as a desktop platform. It's the hardware that is lacking.

The problem is finding staff to write drivers. I mean the windows drivers for most hardware is crap. Do you really expect them to then be able to write a linux or BSD driver too?

As for things like sound/graphics there is no reason why new cards don't support AC'97 and that graphics support VESA 3.0 with hardware accel other than they're cheap and want to pander to MSFT.

So stop saying "Linux ain't ready" when it's the manufacturers that aren't!

Tom [speaking as someone who uses Linux on his Compaq Laptop and piece-meal Desktop]

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Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Re:Windows XP? by miyako · 2004-10-29 00:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

hmm, I'm a bit bored, I'll bite...
I don't particularly want to see an all Linux world, though it happens to be the OS that I used the most. I also don't have anything fundamentally against Microsoft, who is merely a single product of a fundamental world mindset, or with windows, which is perfectly well suited to a number of applications, thought not particularly any of the things for which I primarily use a computer.
Microsoft's primary goal is to make money, their current business plan for doing so relys on the continued dominance of Windows in the OS market, as such it's prudent to work out a deal with major hardware manufacturers.
To be honest, I don't see any difference between the situation I described above, and the recipies on certain food products that say to use "Brand X butter" and "Brand Y Sugar", it's cross marketing, and it works.

--
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Re:Windows XP? by thakadu · 2004-10-29 01:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

I just went to www.dell.com. No mention of Linux. So I chose the "Home and Small Office" link. Top of page says "Dell recommends Windows XP". Still no mention of "Linux" (I did a search) So now I chose "desktop systems" link. Again "Dell recommends XP" at the top and again no mention of Linux. So I choose a model, the 4600, again Dell recommends.... and even when I customize my chosen model there is not even an option to select Linux. Only an upgrade to XP professional.
Re:Windows XP? by erick99 · 2004-10-29 01:05 · Score: 1

I used to submit the forms for MDF (marketing development funds) for a large computer reseller where I worked. We got about $2M a year doing this. Given the low product margins, it was worthwhile.

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http://www.busyweather.com/
Re:Windows XP? by GoofyBoy · 2004-10-29 01:24 · Score: 1

From the press release at http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx /corp/pressoffice/en/2004/2004_10_27_rrwa_000?c=us &cs=555&l=en&s=biz

"SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 will be available with Dell PowerEdge 1850, 2800 and 2850 servers worldwide in the fourth quarter. For more information on Dell/Novell solutions, services and tools, please visit: www.dell.com/novell or www.novell.com/dell . "

Note the future tense.

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The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Re:Windows XP? by TykeClone · 2004-10-29 01:29 · Score: 1

Depends on which of the "shops" you use. If you go through their small business site, you can avoid at least some of the consumer preinstalled crap and it will automatically choose the XP Pro radio button for you.

--
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Re:Windows XP? by Donny+Smith · 2004-10-29 05:15 · Score: 1

>What kind of mixed messages are they sending there?

How the hell is this insightful?

Can't you read?

They _recommend_ (for whatever reason) Windows XP Pro and they sell whatever makes money. Is that so hard to understand? Or should they stop bundling (or recommending) Windows OS just because they signed just another bundling agreement?
Re:Windows XP? by HiThere · 2004-10-29 05:50 · Score: 1

If you don't have anything against Microsoft yet, I suggest that you carefully read their current EULA. (What? You can't? How surprising!)

Once the appelate level court covering the jurisdiction that I live in declares that EULAs are just marketing and don't have any legal significance...and that the BSA is a bunch of extortionists without any legal basis or protection, and is in violation of the law, then I won't have anything (except their history) against Microsoft.

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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Windows XP? by DarkMantle · 2004-10-29 14:42 · Score: 1

I believe u missed part of my statement....

it is not designed for most people

As in it isn't an interface my mother is comfortable with

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DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Re:Windows XP? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · 2004-10-29 15:27 · Score: 1

Dell supports Linux because that's what it's customer wants.

It's "its", not "it's". "it's" means "it is", "its" is the possessive.

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Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Re:Windows XP? by tomstdenis · 2004-10-29 15:50 · Score: 1

Depends. Plomp a newbie in front of KDE [or Gnome] and I think they have equal chances as if you sat them in front of XP.

Though this raises another point. I personally don't think computers should be that easy. It makes people too complacent and likely to tolerate not only buggy software but insecure software too.

If it were common [for instance] that people had the first clue about process trees and such then I'm sure most spyware wouldn't exist. If people were forced through less automated ways to send files [e.g. put url in email instead of file] chances are there would be less email bound viruses, etc...

A 3000MIPS computer with broadband "so easy my grandmother can use" isn't always a good idea. A proper analogy would be a 300HP 7'6" SUV. Sure it may be your "right" to own one... doesn't mean you have a right to use it insecurely.

Though side rant aside...

The biggest problem I have with Linux isn't really a Linux problem at all. It's the cut-corner-make-a-buck hardware manufacturers that don't follow specs. Of course next on my list would be the scores of "OSS Developers" who write really shitty software.

But for the most part once you overcome the hardware hurdle Linux based OSes [like Gentoo + Gnome] can be every bit as "desktopy" as WindowsXP and ultimately way more useful if you do more than "check the web". Cuz I know for sure I've never seen cc in a copy of Windows.

Tom

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Someday, I'll have a real sig.

But! by koi88 · 2004-10-29 00:10 · Score: 4, Funny

But don't they know the TCO of Windows is much lower than Linux' TCO?
The customers don't want Linux. And it's unsafe. Only hippies would use it. Dammit.
Guess I have to send over Stevie B...

Bill G.

--

I don't need a signature.

Re:But! by smittyoneeach · 2004-10-29 00:32 · Score: 1

Send Stevie W. Much better vision of where things are going, e.g. "Higher Ground".

--
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Re:But! by chrismcdirty · 2004-10-29 00:50 · Score: 1

Not only hippies use Linux. Pinko commies also use Linux. It's downright un-American of them!

--
It's like sex, except I'm having it!

Old storie by IgorMrBean · 2004-10-29 00:12 · Score: 2, Informative

This is a 2 days old story http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/2004/10/p r04072.html

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Mess with the best, die like the rest

Re:Old storie by B2382F29 · 2004-10-29 00:42 · Score: 4, Funny

Wait another 2 days and we have it again as a dupe on slashdot..

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Move Sig. For great justice.
Re:Old storie by julesh · 2004-10-29 00:43 · Score: 1

So? Are you suggesting /. should report everything immediately? Or that we should all be checking novell's web site daily to make sure we know if something like this is happening?
Re:Old storie by martingunnarsson · 2004-10-29 00:47 · Score: 1

Oh my god nooo! The story wasn't posted on Slashdot the INSTANCE it was published! What kind of crap news website is this??

At least be happy it's not a dupe for crying out loud...

--
Martin

mirrordot link and content by buro9 · 2004-10-29 00:12 · Score: 4, Informative

I hate karma-whoring, but then I couldn't get to the Dell blog... so here's the mirrordot link: http://mirrordot.org/stories/086e42b3190e9dadcda31 da9fcc5515e/index.html

Don't worry about the text, they merely point here: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx /corp/pressoffice/en/2004/2004_10_27_rrwa_000

Which is mirrored here: http://mirrordot.org/stories/c6067beb11e039d913a6d cb073ee1d71/index.html

Re:mirrordot link and content by darkmeridian · 2004-10-29 00:30 · Score: 1

Don't worry. We've slashdotted mirrordot as well.

Hehe. What the hell were they thinking, "Solving the Slashdot effect". Don't challenge Slashdot and get away with it. Just remember Coralizing and how well that turned out, too.

Ultimate DDoS. We rock.

--
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
Re:mirrordot link and content by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 03:19 · Score: 0

I hate karma-whoring.
them post AC. easy, see!

I wonder by Moby+Cock · 2004-10-29 00:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

I could not RTFA, the thing is /.ed already. However, I wonder if the move with SuSE is an attempt to move into some bigger European markets. SuSE is the de facto linux standard over there (as opposed to RHEL in NA) and I wonder if Dell is trying to squeeze into some business operations on the continent.

Re:I wonder by koi88 · 2004-10-29 00:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

the thing is /.ed already

Maybe Dell should move their servers from Windows 2000 (according to netcraft) to Linux, too...

--

I don't need a signature.
Re:I wonder by dpilot · 2004-10-29 01:09 · Score: 1

Don your tinfoil hats...

If we *really* want to think sinister, let's say it's a secret plot by Microsoft to further undermine RedHat, by having Dell strengthen one of RedHat's primary competitors.

Remove tinfoil hats...

Or, as someone else said, Novell is a corporation of the size/type Dell would be more interested in dealing with, the SuSE connection would help them in Europe, and on servers at least, they ignore Linux at their own peril.

--
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Re:I wonder by naitro · 2004-10-29 02:07 · Score: 1

SuSE is not the de facto linux standard in Europe. I have yet to work at a single site with a majority of SuSE-boxes. RHEL, and to some extent Debian (with or a third party support agreement) is far more common.
Re:I wonder by lonesometrainer · 2004-10-29 03:29 · Score: 1

At least here in Germany the situation IS as described above. Linux equals to SuSE here.

People are talking about stuff like "Linux 9.1 Professional" when they just think about SuSE.

content as promised by buro9 · 2004-10-29 00:14 · Score: 1, Informative

Dell and Novell Expand Partnership to Provide Customers Certified SUSE LINUX Platforms and Services

SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 on Select Dell PowerEdge Servers Extends Customer Choice and ValueRound Rock, Texas and Waltham, Massachusetts, October 27, 2004

Dell and Novell today announced an agreement to offer Novell SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 certified on select Dell PowerEdge servers worldwide.

This announcement provides Dell and Novell customers with more choice for fully-supported Linux platform deployments, and at the best value in the industry. Dell provides a single point of contact for customers' support needs; Dell Services will also assist customers throughout the lifecycle of their deployments.

Dell customers will be able to purchase Novell SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 with their single-and dual-processor PowerEdge servers. The agreement reinforces Dell and Novell's longstanding collaboration to provide customers with superior standards-based computing platforms, and extends this value and expertise to customers deploying SUSE LINUX for their business applications.

"Today's announcement marks an important expansion of Dell and Novell's longstanding industry relationship," said Al Gillen, research director, System Software, at IDC. "It provides Dell Linux customers more platform choice for fully supported operating systems, and gives Novell customers a new option for deploying Linux in their IT infrastructure."

Linda York, vice president of global alliances marketing in Dell's Product Group, said that SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 on Dell PowerEdge servers provides customers another robust and scalable enterprise platform to replace costly proprietary UNIX-based systems or to deploy Linux for the first time.

"This is another great example of Dell and Novell's ability to work together to move standards-based computing further into the data center," said York.

Increased Customer Choice, Industry-leading Value

For $175 per single-CPU server annual maintenance subscription and $269 for a dual CPU subscription, Dell and Novell offer Linux customers additional choice on Dell's award-winning PowerEdge 1850, 2800 and 2850 servers. SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 is the first enterprise-class Linux server to leverage the performance, scalability and security features of the new Linux 2.6 kernel. This new platform is ideal for customers deploying Web farms, IT infrastructures and custom applications. The operating system will be bundled with the server at the time of purchase. A joint service agreement between the two companies provides customers with the same levels of award-winning support for SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 as all other operating systems.

Novell's acquisition of SUSE LINUX in January 2004 set the stage for this logical next step in the longstanding Dell and Novell relationship. "Dell's decision to collaborate with Novell on Linux is a vote of confidence in our Linux strategy and is great news for customers around the world,"" said David Patrick, vice president, Linux, Open Source and Platform Services at Novell. "Existing Novell customers get new options for their future hardware platform needs, while new customers gain a top-notch enterprise Linux offering on one of the most robust server platforms in the world, backed by Novell's global ecosystem of enterprise-level Linux services."

Global Services

Novell SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 will be supported by Dell Services (www.dell.com/services), through a collaborative support agreement with Novell technical support that provides customers a single point of contact for all issues. This helps customers realize a more efficient, effective, scalable and productive enterprise environment. Customized Dell offerings streamline and integrate activities across the entire product lifecycle, such as system planning and design, implementation and training and support and disposal.

SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 will be available with Dell Po

Now that's some serious momentum by RAMMS+EIN · 2004-10-29 00:16 · Score: 0

With Novell and Dell pushing it, SuSe is gaining some serious momentum. Could this be the year of Linux+++NO CAREER+++

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

Re:Now that's some serious momentum by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 00:46 · Score: 0

No career is right....

What about workstations? by ZorinLynx · 2004-10-29 00:17 · Score: 3, Informative

Dell still charges the "Windows Tax" on all its workstations. Try ordering a Dimension series without Windows, for instance. Not possible! They only offer Linux on two particular models of workstation (Precision) which are expensive and are limited in what video cards you can purchase with them.

Dell only seems to want to support Linux on the server side. They should support Linux all the way! If they don't want to offer it pre-installed on their workstations, they should at least offer a machine without Windows.

Argh!

-Z

Re:What about workstations? by madman101 · 2004-10-29 00:40 · Score: 1

Look again... I found 2 models of Dimension, 3 models of Optiplex, and 2 models of Precision available with Linux.
Re:What about workstations? by Quobobo · 2004-10-29 00:44 · Score: 2, Informative

...and are limited in what video cards you can purchase with them.

I'm sorry, but that is complete FUD. The only difference is that you can buy an ATI FireGL V3100 for the Windows ones, and you can't for the Linux ones. It's not Dell's fault that ATI's drivers aren't very good, and they'd likely catch a lot of flak from their customers if they shipped systems with buggy drivers.
Re:What about workstations? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 01:28 · Score: 0

"and are limited in what video cards you can purchase with them"

Um, duh? Video card support in Linux isn't that great compared to Windows. Makes sense to limit the selection to things you're sure that will work or that work better than just 2D. This isn't 1993 where 3D is a luxury for SGIs.

Purely Business by cheezemonkhai · 2004-10-29 00:17 · Score: 1

I'm guessing Dell is doing this on the basis that some of it's big customers said can you do a linux distro and if not we are going elsewhere.

Dell is well in the Wintel camp.

Only Intel CPU's and a few words about AMD to keep intel on their toes.

The laptop I have "only works with MS windows" altho I have gentoo on it.

These announcements will be due to the business side of companies realising that if they don't offer what the customer wants then they will go to another company that does.

History repeats itself :)

Re:Purely Business by bodgit · 2004-10-29 00:22 · Score: 1

Erm, you guessed wrong.

Dell have been shipping Red Hat Enterprise Linux as an option with their PowerEdge servers for ages now, including their hardware management tools.

It is still a bit iffy in places, firmware updates and such still tend to come in Windows-centric formats, but it's getting better from what I can tell.
Re:Purely Business by Pxtl · 2004-10-29 00:33 · Score: 1

Servers. Only servers. Wake me when Dell offers SuSe on their home desktop models.
Re:Purely Business by Luser5 · 2004-10-29 00:40 · Score: 0

Purely Business
What did you think is this all about?
Re:Purely Business by pyros · 2004-10-29 03:08 · Score: 1

wake me when they stop breaking reference implementations in their laptop BIOS. They screw up their DSDTs breaking ACPI. They intentionally remove functionality from Intel i8x0m integrated graphics chipsets with the result that the VESA X driver might not even work. The Latitude line is much better than the Inspiron in these respects, and it varies greatly from model to model. But Linux on most Dell laptops is pretty much a UFiA*.

* Univited Finger in Ass.

how much tweaking... by gp310ad · 2004-10-29 00:23 · Score: 3, Interesting

What does it mean when Dell and Suse or IBM and ??? (RedHat?, Debian?, Knoppix?, all three and more?) deliver a server with 'certified' linux?

Has anyone bought one of these for work and taken a good look at the install?

I see the 'support' part, but do they:
1. compile kernel (./config options) for that particular box?
2. config all applications for that particular box?
3. more than '1' and '2'?

--
Do not look into LASER with remaining eye!

Re:how much tweaking... by numbski · 2004-10-29 00:36 · Score: 1

I would imagine that they use the stock kernel and have the kernel sources on hand for a custom compile.

This kind of goes along with another post I made...primarily what packages are installed by default, what other packages are included on the hard drive, and which ones are being given to you only on optical disc (if any)?

Being a FreeBSD/MacOS X user as of late, between the ports systems and fink, I've gotten more than a bit accustomed to just sync'ing against an online repository for package descriptions using cron and only pulling down what I need, but that puts a strain on someone's servers.

--
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Re:how much tweaking... by jimicus · 2004-10-29 00:58 · Score: 4, Interesting

What does it mean when Dell and Suse or IBM and ??? (RedHat?, Debian?, Knoppix?, all three and more?) deliver a server with 'certified' linux?

Has anyone bought one of these for work and taken a good look at the install?

Yes. My former employer was an IBM shop, had 250 Linux servers and around 1,200 desktops.

We bought servers without an operating system. Some (not all) models arrived in parts - disks, memory processors and rack-mounting kit were all shipped in separate boxes and you fitted them yourself. My understanding was "every bit of hardware here works under Linux".

Experience demonstrated that this was indeed the case, only you sometimes had to download kernel patches (which were generally open source, they just hadn't made it to the mainstream kernel).

I don't know whether or not the pre-built servers had these patches pre-installed - I'd imagine so.
Re:how much tweaking... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 01:08 · Score: 0

That answered a completely different question because you cut off the other, more relevant parts (read: the context of the message).

He wanted to know about 'certified' Linux, not computer kits that you put together and called servers, and then slapped an OS onto.
Re:how much tweaking... by i.r.id10t · 2004-10-29 01:10 · Score: 1

only you sometimes had to download kernel patches (which were generally open source, they just hadn't made it to the mainstream kernel).

Wouldn't a kernel patch, by definition, be open source?

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Re:how much tweaking... by noselasd · 2004-10-29 01:13 · Score: 1

>I see the 'support' part, but do they:
>1. compile kernel (./config options) for that particular box?
No.
>2. config all applications for that particular box?
No.
>3. more than '1' and '2'?

They test it, they make sure everything(hardware) works/is supported.
Re:how much tweaking... by jimicus · 2004-10-29 01:44 · Score: 1

So this isn't a server then?
Re:how much tweaking... by jimicus · 2004-10-29 01:48 · Score: 1

Wouldn't a kernel patch, by definition, be open source?

Not if it's only a few lines of source code which wrap around a binary driver.
Re:how much tweaking... by gp310ad · 2004-10-29 02:13 · Score: 1

I see. You get just the box and the vanilla OS.
Thanks.

--
Do not look into LASER with remaining eye!

SuSE on the Desktop, please ! by InodoroPereyra · 2004-10-29 00:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

I would bet that with the gaining momentum of Linux as a corporate/govenrment desktop environment, teaming up with SuSE could be a good idea for Dell. Not that RedHat is horrible unusable or anything, but SuSE is more polished and integrated for the end user, and they are in a position of offering top of the line KDE, GNOME or a combination of both.

Re:SuSE on the Desktop, please ! by pyros · 2004-10-29 03:19 · Score: 1

Their GNOME offerings are anything but top of the line. They only recently started offering GNOME 2.6.
Re:SuSE on the Desktop, please ! by HiThere · 2004-10-29 06:08 · Score: 1

That's ODD.

I bought SUSE 9.1 to try it out, and didn't like it. I have two linux distro's installed on my computer. One for work (LibraNet, a Debian knock-off), and one for experimentation (currently Fedora2 as implemented by KRUD [Kevin's RedHat Uber Distribution]). So I'm flexible. (I've also occasionally had Mandrake installed. Gentoo briefly. Linux From Scratch. Etc. But there's lots that have never caught my eye.)

I used to be a Red Hat faithful, before they dropped the professional edition. Since then I've found them (Fedora) a disappointment ... largely because the packages I want aren't available as rpm's, but LibraNet has adequately filled the vacancy. (I just wish they would release installation CDs more frequently. Currently the patches take a day of work to upgrade to the current status. OTOH, a new release is in the wings, so this is [probably] as bad as it gets.

I can't remember WHY I didn't stick with SUSE. With Mandrake it was because their quality control problems were severe, and because their system utilities were glacially slow, and didn't do what I wanted, but had automagic configurations so editing with the old manual tools was...well, results were unpredictable, but sometimes quite bad. I WANTED to like Mandrake, because the 7.x series had been so good. But something changed. (Perhaps they've recovered by now...I hope.)

OTOH, I've never particularlly liked SuSE (now it's SUSE, but I'm talking about older editions). And I've never been clear on why. And many people do like them.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.

The power of the US by peterprior · 2004-10-29 00:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm not really suprised. Now that Novell has bought SUSE, they are dealing with a nice big US corporation which must be very familiar to them.

Before Novell bought them, SUSE was seen as this oddball German company who probably seemed a world apart from a US Corp like Dell.

Re:The power of the US by icke · 2004-10-29 00:42 · Score: 1

Hasn't stopped Dell working with the oddball German software company SAP. Find it here.
Re:The power of the US by yorugua · 2004-10-29 02:27 · Score: 1

Hmmm... IBM dealed with SuSE back in the day where they were a German company. On the other hand, many CEO's have had no problems driving German stuff like Mercedes, AUDI and BMW, even back in the day where those companies were closer 100% german. Airbus, which you might be flying onto even if you are in the US, has no problem not being an US corp. And if a headache comes your way after this... what about an Aspirin (bayer?).
Re:The power of the US by Donny+Smith · 2004-10-29 05:17 · Score: 1

>IBM dealed with SuSE back in the day where they were a German company.

Yes because IBM Germany was (is?) in charge of much of Linux back then. I think they did a lot of work on Linux for zSeries and pSeries in IBM Germany.

Workstations by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 00:31 · Score: 0

start offering SUSE Enterprise Linux installed directly on Dell servers.

But what about say a laptop under $1500 with Suse Linux on it?

I'm curious by numbski · 2004-10-29 00:32 · Score: 2, Interesting

One of the benefits of SuSE is that (at least last time I used it, I'm a FreeBSD/MacOS X user currently) it comes with every tested package imaginable...something like 10 cd's or 3 DVDs...?

Are they just shipping with a base install, and giving you the DVDs? Putting all of the packages on there, just not installing them for convenience on a huge drive?

What's the best OEM config for something like SuSE? Presume people are going to use an online repository?

--

Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

Bad news for Red Hat... by Thaidog · 2004-10-29 00:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

Now that novell has bought SuSE, major fundage means major comp now for Red Hat. Personally I think SuSE is more user friendly than Red Hat is now... with YAST playing a major role in that. Easy to configure, even for an end user to get a basic server up and running or whatever else. I see this hittin the lowend workstation level big time as well since most of the hardware cerifications Red Hat has SuSE has too (too a point).

--

||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.

Re:Bad news for Red Hat... by icke · 2004-10-29 00:36 · Score: 1

Doesn't the article mention that it is Servers? Still bad news for RH but desktop usability debate is for another announcement.
Re:Bad news for Red Hat... by Thaidog · 2004-10-29 00:42 · Score: 1

Yes that was meant as a secondary "follow through"... *possibly* going in to the workstation market. SuSE is to an extent more friendly, in my opinion, to the enduser... which could easily play in to the workstation market. 9.1 Pro offers a "ton" of desktop enviornments... KDE, GNOME, Windowmaker (my fav)...etc

--
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Re:Bad news for Red Hat... by Macka · 2004-10-29 01:21 · Score: 1

9.1 Pro offers a "ton" of desktop enviornments

I bet it doesn't stay that way for long. Eventually someone at Novell is going to take a look at what money they're spending on development, which will include the ongoing costs of integrating, testing and qualifying "tons" of apps for the SuSE portfolio. Then they'll look at what their (paying) customers are asking for (at least the ones who provide 80% of their revenue) and a cut back and rationalization exercise will follow.

SuSE is currently the Swiss Army knife of Linux distros. I'm convinced those days will eventually be numbered. Distros like Ubuntu who limit themselves to a streamlined, specific set of technologies are going to grow very quickly and get a foothold in the market. They can do this cos their development cycles are less burdened, so they're cheaper and faster. Eventually SuSE will have to cut away some of the fat to keep their market lead and stay competitive.
Re:Bad news for Red Hat... by Greenisloved · 2004-10-29 02:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

I agree SUSE is user friendly and YAST is awesome , however , the basic installation is so complex than Redhat.Redhat has easy isos to download , burn and install.However , I do not see easy installation procedure .

How would one expect to use SUSE if installation is so hard.Besides Redhat is already well known.
May be its just me..

--
Hello , this is my way.
Which way is yours ?
btw there is no right way

Dell Laptops? by Manip · 2004-10-29 00:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

I love Dell, and I am pleased with this new deal (advancement of Linux is always good news). The question I really want answered is when will I be able to guy a laptop from Dell (or anyone else) with Linux pre-installed?

I just don't like the idea of paying £30 more for a copy of XP home or 2k which I will be removing and replacement with my fav distro .. Seems silly to me that so few DO offer a Linux alternative.

Re:Dell Laptops? by ajs · 2004-10-29 01:21 · Score: 1

HP sells a SuSE pre-installed laptop. It was announced a few months ago (possibly even showed up here on Slashdot).
Re:Dell Laptops? by justins · 2004-10-29 02:40 · Score: 1

The question I really want answered is when will I be able to guy a laptop from Dell (or anyone else) with Linux pre-installed?

When there are more than a few dozen people who want one.

--
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
Re:Dell Laptops? by evilviper · 2004-10-29 03:58 · Score: 1

when will I be able to guy a laptop from Dell (or anyone else) with Linux pre-installed?

Months ago... From HP...

Before that, from smaller companies.

--
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Re:Dell Laptops? by Donny+Smith · 2004-10-29 05:21 · Score: 1

> The question I really want answered is when will I be able to guy a laptop from Dell (or anyone else) with Linux pre-installed?

When you get enough money.

>Seems silly to me that so few DO offer a Linux alternative.

Seems silly to me that you complain about the 30 quids (like Dell will go out of their way to bundle SuSE for free!) and make a big story out of nothing. Just install it yourself or buy an HP notebook or whatever.
Re:Dell Laptops? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 07:51 · Score: 0

Emperor Linux has a few converted Dells. http://www.emperorlinux.com (Sorry I can't get the link version to work)

SuSE vs Red Hat by DrugCheese · 2004-10-29 00:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

I was always under the impression that SuSE was the most popular distro. I think they were the first to commercially distribute linux. While Red Hat as the most popular in the U.S. SuSe was the most popular world wide?

I've long thought SuSE to be far FAR superior to all other distros I've tried and have said over and over again that it can be used by a newbie to linux or a mission critical server application out of the same box.
In a couple years (or less the way SuSE is in the news more and more recently) people will agree that Red Hat is no longer the name when it comes to a great pre-packaged linux.

--
*DrugCheese rants*

Re:SuSE vs Red Hat by pr0c · 2004-10-29 02:23 · Score: 1

AHHHHHHHH I can't take it anymore it is SUSE... SUSE SUSE SUSE SUSE SUSE SUSE, it hasn't been SuSE since September of 2003. And no I'm not crazy.. I've seen people get corrected from suse, etc to SuSE thousands of times and now its time to go the other way around :P
Re:SuSE vs Red Hat by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 05:19 · Score: 0

I don't know why, but the 9.2 boot screen still/again says "SuSE"
Re:SuSE vs Red Hat by DrugCheese · 2004-10-29 17:10 · Score: 1

Maybe it was a typo

Maybe I meant to type SuSE

That's the magic of the internet!

That and free porn err pron errr pr0n

--
*DrugCheese rants*

Dell was offering RedHat 3 years ago by vasqzr · 2004-10-29 00:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

What's this have to do with anything? It really doesn't mean anything.

Linux is EXPENSIVE from Dell. Most people are going to do what we did, buy Dell $329 servers, and install a downloaded version of (insert your favorite distribution)

Re:Dell was offering RedHat 3 years ago by numbski · 2004-10-29 00:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Except for one minor detail that PHB's might go for:

If you buy the linux distro from Dell, Dell will support it.

s/Red Hat/SuSE/g;

--
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Re:Dell was offering RedHat 3 years ago by mgoss · 2004-10-29 00:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Linux is EXPENSIVE from Dell. Most people are going to do what we did, buy Dell $329 servers, and install a downloaded version of (insert your favorite distribution) Not everyone wants to download and install Linux themselves plus get it set up the way they need it to. I don't know how worth the money buying a SuSE linux box from Dell would be, but it could be worth it. I think the point is to make it easier for current Windows users to move over to a Linux box. I have seen a demo of the new SuSE and it looks pretty sweet. I definitely think this has a chance. Not everyone is a geek enough to be fine with downloading and installing Linux themselves so we get more stuff free more easily. I guess that's the price we "pay" for being Linux geeky.
Re:Dell was offering RedHat 3 years ago by bodgit · 2004-10-29 00:52 · Score: 1

Linux is EXPENSIVE from Dell.

This will be the Red Hat Enterprise Linux option, where you get a support contract.

Sure, you can go the cheap route, and just rely on mailing lists if anything blows up, but most serious businesses want support contracts for stuff.
Re:Dell was offering RedHat 3 years ago by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 05:05 · Score: 0

But in that case, Linux is actually MORE EXPENSIVE than windows.

Maybe those TCO reports showing Windows being cheaper are right after all. I mean when you compare apples to apples...

No such thing as bad news. by numbski · 2004-10-29 00:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

I really think everyone is looking at this wrong.

There is no such thing as bad news when it comes to Linux distros being picked up, not even from a corporate point of view.

I get this a lot with wireless broadband. If a 'competitor' springs up across town and starts covering areas that I also service, if we cooperate, we'll both get more customers. If we in-fight, people will get the idea that wireless broadband is unreliable. When people work together, provide excellent service, everyone benefits. There's plenty of market terrain out there to be had, and no everyone needs to become a huge mega-comglomerate.

No one linux shop needs to become the next M$ or Apple. Sure, they could, but they don't need to in order to prosper. There's still plenty of Linux territory to be had. I'd say this is as good a news to Red Hat as any, so long as both RH and SuSE are commited to excellence.

--

Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

Re:No such thing as bad news. by Thaidog · 2004-10-29 00:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

I would say as long as Novell development stays opensource as much as possible. After all the are porting their products to Linux.

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||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.

Considering the limited.. by Tracer_Bullet82 · 2004-10-29 00:43 · Score: 3, Interesting

product options and the somewhat contradictory message in Dell's policy, this may not seem to be a significant step.

Dell however has the image of providing good support(at least in my neck of the woods)

Seeing that Dell can ofer and support for Linux;I'm presuming they will, this can show to the general public that (Dell considers) Linux is/as a viable option.

--

Timang tinggi tinggi
parang sudah asah
alang alang mandi
biar sampai basah

Nonsense by YrWrstNtmr · 2004-10-29 00:47 · Score: 5, Informative

Try ordering a Dimension series without Windows, for instance. Not possible!

3 clicks
Dell|Small Business|Desktops
"Dell Alternative Operating System Desktops" is listed right there with the others. 'N Series' Dimension, Optiplex, or Precision. Either RH or no OS (FreeDOS in the box).

The Dimension N starts at $319

Re:Nonsense by widderslainte · 2004-10-29 01:16 · Score: 1

Yes, it possible, stripped down with a Celeron. But if you want a Pentium model it's just as cheap to get it with XP Home and reformat.
Re:Nonsense by YrWrstNtmr · 2004-10-29 01:32 · Score: 1

Yes, it possible, stripped down with a Celeron.
You can get one with pretty much whatever you want.
Re:Nonsense by TykeClone · 2004-10-29 01:35 · Score: 1

3GHz HT 800MHz FSB Pentium 4 model here http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?cs=04&oc=dim30n2&m_1=WLN308B&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&kc=6 W463

--
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Re:Nonsense by ZorinLynx · 2004-10-29 02:47 · Score: 1

I stand corrected. This must be new, because I looked a few months ago and found nothing. }:)

Forgive my ignorance. I now respect Dell a bit more... Though I don't understand why every page they serve says "Dell recommends Windows XP" on it. WTF?

-Z
Re:Nonsense by zenray · 2004-10-29 03:13 · Score: 1

My Company recently tried to order the Dell Dimension 3000N system as a 'low end' workstation but our Dell rep would not sell us them. "They are for home use" she said. She did match the price on a Optiplex 170L system tough.

--
zenray
Re:Nonsense by TykeClone · 2004-10-29 04:15 · Score: 1

No problem. They've got them, but they've hidden them so that you have to work to find what you're looking for.

--
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.

Ah, I think I get it. by RealProgrammer · 2004-10-29 00:55 · Score: 4, Funny

For $175 per single-CPU server annual maintenance subscription and $269 for a dual CPU subscription, Dell and Novell offer Linux customers additional choice on Dell's award-winning PowerEdge 1850, 2800 and 2850 servers.

I'm not sure understand the reasoning there. It'll cost Dell 54% more to support a dual-CPU box, is that it?

Oh, I see. Dual support desks, dual techs, dual phone bills (to India and Utah).

--
sigs, as if you care.

Re:Ah, I think I get it. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 01:10 · Score: 0

They seem to have statistics on everything else and survive on large volume low profit, it might actually be true! Although its prolly that people buying dual processor systems are looking for more processing power and want to keep them running.
Re:Ah, I think I get it. by RealProgrammer · 2004-10-29 01:18 · Score: 1

>people buying dual-processor systems...

Right. They charge that because they can.

I was really just trying to be funny.

--
sigs, as if you care.
Re:Ah, I think I get it. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 03:09 · Score: 0

Im pretty sure im sitting next to a dell rip here in maine

Dell and SUSE by demon_2k · 2004-10-29 00:59 · Score: 1

Looks like Redhat is loosing their doninance in the linux world...

Re:Dell and SUSE by ztirffritz · 2004-10-29 01:47 · Score: 1

Redhad never had dominance in the Linux world. They had dominance in the US, but Suse was always bigger.

--
Why doesn't anything interesting happen when I have mod points?
Re:Dell and SUSE by LnxAddct · 2004-10-29 02:10 · Score: 1

Actually... as far as business goes, Redhat has about 3 times the marketshare.
Regards,
Steve
Re:Dell and Suse by theendlessnow · 2004-10-29 05:16 · Score: 1

I'm sorry but being a "red hat" shop statement isn't exactly correct, unless you were referring to them exclusively. Suse uses RPM's as well and the Redhat directory and file tree, so they (Dell) more or less are still a Redhat shop for all intent's and purposes.

SUSE uses the RPM package format BUT they build and configure their OWN packages!! They do NOT use Red Hat's directory and file tree... NO! The only thing that "isn't exactly correct" is your post.
Red Hat and SUSE are VERY different from each other.
Re:Dell and Suse by Rares+Marian · 2004-10-29 13:35 · Score: 1

-->Just a little hit to help remove some ambiguity... :-)

try again slowly. :)

--
The message on the other side of this sig is false.

Now.. by aelbric · 2004-10-29 01:04 · Score: 1

if only Dell would start offering systems with AMD CPUs installed I would consider them. Not that I'm an AMD zealot (well maybe) but I hate being locked into a "solution". Choice is key.

--
nos laetus epulor qui would domito nos

Re:Now.. by Nosher · 2004-10-29 01:23 · Score: 1

Perhaps they are, or soon could be. In the UK at least, there's been a subtle change in Dell's TV adverts. Where the ads used to say "Dell PCs contain Intel Pentium 4 processors" (Intel pays for a percentage of the cost of the advert if they play that annoying "Duuuh... duh du du duuh" splash), they now say "This PC contains..." on what appears to be a case-by-case basis. This looks to me like they're warming up to offering PCs that, shock horror, maybe don't contain Intel CPUs. Or maybe it's just something to do with that whole EU anti-competitive thing...

--
It's too late for me to die young
Re:Now.. by Donny+Smith · 2004-10-29 05:26 · Score: 1

> I hate being locked into a "solution". Choice is key.

What locked? What solution?

I happen to think that you're trolling and full of BS.
You can get an AMD system anywhere (the "choice"), with SuSE, without SuSE, with Red Hat, without Red Hat and with Windows 32-bit.
Where exactly is the lock you complain about?
Re:Now.. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 06:22 · Score: 0

Some companies only buy one brand of computer, and if you work for that company and you need them to order some a machine for you... you're getting a Dell!

All I can say is "Good Luck" by AetherBurner · 2004-10-29 01:07 · Score: 1

I hope that the Enterprise Package runs far smoother than Suse 9.1 Pro for 64-bit. I put that molasses package on my machine (Athlon64/3000+) and regretted it. A supposedly speedy machine turned into a 486 by an install was out of the box. Went back to the ol' reliable Slackware 10 and it screaming again. I think that Dell would be better off loading Slack than Suse but, as another commenter mentioned, Europe loves Suse so that would be a plus from the sales end of it. Who cares about performance....

Re:All I can say is "Good Luck" by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 02:16 · Score: 0

I have to ask... was there a 17 megabyte file involved? A lot of computers seem to have trouble copying 17 megabyte files around.

SuSE might be the "enterprise" Linux? by TheLoneGundam · 2004-10-29 01:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

Since SuSE is the default distribution that IBM uses for their Linux on z/Series (or S/390) and this announcment is for Dell Servers, this might be another small step to getting in some corporate doors - start with some Dell Servers, then consolidate onto a mainframe box for lower (supposedly) TCO. We've been talking about Linux on our big iron, and if it was the same Linux as on the servers I know certain PHBs would have a warmer, fuzzier feeling.

Nice but.... by HawkingMattress · 2004-10-29 01:32 · Score: 1, Redundant

Can you order a machine from Dell without OS at all ? (or with a really free os like Debian). Because i don't care if it's XP or Suse, if I already have an OS and i don't need a new one, this is still an OS tax.

Re:Nice but.... by YrWrstNtmr · 2004-10-29 01:48 · Score: 2, Informative

If you'd spend but a minute or two cruising around the dell site, you might come across this:
"Dell(TM) Dimension(TM) n series desktops offer affordable, everyday small business computing power. Extra economical because they come without a Microsoft® operating system; a copy of FreeDOS(TM) open-source operating system is included in the box, ready to install."

If they don't want to pay for an Enterprise Linux by FatSean · 2004-10-29 01:40 · Score: 0

why do you think they would ever pay for Oracle or WebSphere licsensing?!

--
Blar.

You are quite correct, sir by 2names · 2004-10-29 01:41 · Score: 1

Businesses have a simple request: use the right tool for the job.

At this point, that means Windows on the desktop and Linux/UNIX for the server.

Hopefully, the desktop developers in the Linux arena will continue their efforts to provide a desktop solution that not only works well (which already exists) but that can convince managers to invest time and money into switching to Linux on the desktop.

--
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."

Hmm... by destiney · 2004-10-29 01:52 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Dell isn't just a Red Hat shop

I didn't know Dell was a Red Hat shop.. What exactly entitles one to a specific 'shop' status anyway?

I'm quite sure they sell more copies of Windows than Linux.

Re:Hmm... by tty21 · 2004-10-29 03:45 · Score: 1

Dell has a vendor relationship with Red Hat that
means they test the hardware with RH Linux to
make sure it works. RH also gets a heads up to
hardware changes and vice versa. A true hardware
software symbiosis, in the muck that is corporate
computing.

--
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs back 123456789

Bingo! Novell can sell Enterprise Stack by HighOrbit · 2004-10-29 02:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

SuSE might be the "enterprise" Linux?

This is a good way for Novell to "get it's foot in the door" with Suse and then sell more server applications. I would expect the Dell SuSe installation to be preconfigured and marketed as "NDS ready" or "Groupwise Ready". The more Novell's existing application stack becomes integrated with Suse, the more Novell will be able to sell. Compared to Redhat, Novell's application stack is much larger, more mature, and the Novell name still has a lot of trust. This will open up an avenue for Novell to have "certified" hardware for running all of their application stuff. Novell has things like Directory Services (NDS) and ZenWorks that are as good or better than MS's Active Directory stuff. They also have Groupwise and OpenExchange in the groupware area. They have Ximian Evolution for a client that works with both. Redhat already realizes this and they know that Novell can overtake them as the perfered Linux vendor with an integrated directory service and middleware/groupware stack and that is why they bought out the Netscape Enterprise Suite & Directory Server. They had to have it to compete with Novell NDS on SuSe.

eMachines by cbr2702 · 2004-10-29 03:01 · Score: 1

It's funny how these things change. Four years ago, the quality of eMachines was so bad that when my school bought 30 of them, one wouldn't even post right out of the box and two more joined it within two months. Three months later another had a power supply fire. They certainly seemed like a bunch of junk. It sounds like Gateway has made some major improvements since buying Gateway.

--

This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.

SuSE on Dell laptops? by codergeek42 · 2004-10-29 03:47 · Score: 0

This is definitely cool. More and more companies supporting GNU/Linux. So are they also going to starts shipping it on their notebook/laptop computers ala HP?

Thinking of a Dell/SuSE Solution? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 03:52 · Score: 0

You may be interested in this then:

Last January the borough of Newham in London reversed course on a planned change to Linux after a consultant's report said Windows would cost $600,000 less to support each year. The Finnish city of Turku also changed its mind about dumping Windows after a three-year experiment with Linux showed employees resisted the switch. There are reports of glitches and cost overruns from other Linux adopters, including Munich and the German Parliament, which had to revert to Windows servers temporarily in mid-October when a third of its 5,000 PC users couldn't access the Internet or get e-mail.

From http://businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_45/b39 07083_mz054.htm

Read it for additional information.

Re:Thinking of a Dell/SuSE Solution? by waferhead · 2004-10-29 08:44 · Score: 1

...Oh, lets dump it after a 3 day test because Mary Jane in accounting didn't like the fact the menus item in OO/org wer in a different order than in Word.. Jeesh...

You can eventually hire a consultant to say anything you want in a report, as has been demonstrated repeatedly. ...and who takes out a full page (or 2 page) ad in that rag every month, page 2&3 IIRC?

Consider your sources.

Dell and Suse by jskline · 2004-10-29 04:08 · Score: 1

I'm sorry but being a "red hat" shop statement isn't exactly correct, unless you were referring to them exclusively. Suse uses RPM's as well and the Redhat directory and file tree, so they (Dell) more or less are still a Redhat shop for all intent's and purposes.

Just a little hit to help remove some ambiguity... :-)

Cheers

Pissing off IBM: Red Hat's Other Mistake by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 04:19 · Score: 0

I agree that dropping the desktop distro was bad for Red Hat's business. I assume they were losing money on retail distribution and support, since they are still paying development costs for Fedora.

On the other hand, launching a web server and application server to compete directly against IBM's Websphere, and positioning the Red Hat Database against DB2 on small and midsize servers were much bigger problems for Red Hat. Ever since then IBM has been less friendly toward Red Hat, and promoted SuSE Linux much more. IBM's involvement has been the driving force behind the success SuSE Linux and the decline of Red Hat.

It will be interesting to see if Novell makes the same mistake of trying to compete with IBM. Historically, IBM's business practises made Microsoft seem like your friendly next door neighbor. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering exactly how much they have changed.

P.S. posted anonomously because criticizing IBM could be bad for my job

see www.dell.com still runs windows though by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 04:52 · Score: 0

Dells main website still runs on Windows/IIS (see netcraft). But hey, the support Linux in an honest and open manner (bit like IBM running their site on AIX (netcraft again). Not that I'm cynical about the support and motives of large corporations around linux. Wouldn't be a marketing ploy would it?
The fact that IBM still run AIX (and don't offer to open source it) is particuarly irritating. Could they be still promoting their proprietary os over Linux perchance?

A couple of points. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 05:02 · Score: 0

1) The "SuSE" icon for this article is no longer correct, fix it.

2) We might as well just start calling it "Novell Linux 1.0" since that is what it is now.

Adaptec CERC 2ch in PowerEdge 1800? by moeffju · 2004-10-29 05:16 · Score: 1

Not fully on-topic, but worth a try:

Has anyone had any luck installing Debian on a SATA Disk on the Adaptec CERC 2-channel controller in a Dell PowerEdge 1800? I've tried various kernel versions without success.

--
follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/moeffju

Has anyone noticed the WinXP ad at the top by DarknessFallen · 2004-10-29 05:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

Wasnt sure if anyone had noticed the blatent line at the top of the article but just before the headline of dell teaming up with novell/suse there is a line that states "dell recommends running microsoft windows xp" seems strange to announce a linux partnership and still have that of all things at the top of the page dont you all think?

most worthless post ever. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 08:04 · Score: 0

To paraphrase:

blah blah I try different distros blah blah I tried SuSE once blah blah now it's gone blah blah I don't remember anything about it blah blah I like to see my posts on slashdot even if they don't contribute blah blah

Re:most worthless post ever. by HiThere · 2004-10-29 10:22 · Score: 1

Not quite. I remember a lot about it. E.g., it can recognize a Firewire hard drive at boot time. I don't remember why I didn't like it. I don't even WANT to like it, the way I want to like Mandrake. I feel I *ought* to like it (to support Novell)...which is quite a different thing.

I still have a copy of 9.1 sitting in it's box beside the computer I used to have it installed in. Yast was rather nice (though not as nice as apt-get + synaptic). I remember a lot of details about it. But I didn't like it, and I couldn't tell you why. I can tell you why I didn't like the Mandrake version, and it was much longer ago (well, several months). If I could pin this down, I'd have something I could tell them, and they might find it useful.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.

Cool projects... by tsager · 2004-10-29 10:04 · Score: 1

Dell has got some cool kernel projects going on anyway:
http://linux.dell.com/projects.shtml

I know this would/will get troll but..... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-29 10:48 · Score: 0

You know.....I don't give a hairy rats ass about Dell, they have piss poor support regardless of what THEY say. Let's not forget the price gouging on hardware if you add anything to the "default offering".

Or how about their servers? I can build a server like what they are selling so much cheaper it's not even funny if you get a decent speed rack system. Priced out one of their $8800 systems one day, I'd build the same box with my selling price at $4500..... almost 50% less people. Tell me it's smart to give Dell money for high end server hardware and see how long I laugh in your face. Considering I have a 1% failure rate and they have had as much as a 25% failure rate.

Re:If they don't want to pay for an Enterprise Lin by mikefe · 2004-10-30 03:04 · Score: 1

The kid developers? The fact is, they don't and probably will not buy a license for DB2/Oracle themselfs. This is where the company should look the other way, because it will be these kids that will push their product in the company they go to work for in the not too distant future.

--
There: Something at a specific location.
Their: Owned by someone.
Please make sure your english compiles.

And still is, and not all of it's expensive by Roadkills-R-Us · 2004-11-10 08:24 · Score: 1

The expensive stuff is the Enterprise stuff with support. You can also get them with RedHat 9 or equivalent much more cheaply. And then you know you get a functional system; there's no guarantee that any random version of Linux will work on a new system from Dell or anyone else.

[Theoretically it's functional; we never could get both built-in NICs to work with the installed RH9 on our 2650. Dell wasn't much help, either.]

178 comments