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Chinese Team Heading for Coldest Spot on Earth

LMCBoy writes "Dome A is the highest point on the Antarctic Plateau, and it has never been reached by humans. It is thought to be the coldest place on earth, and is certainly among the most remote. Yesterday, a team of Chinese explorers set out from Fremantle, Australia to reach Dome A and set up a robotic weather station which will monitor the local conditions for up to five years. The team is expected to arrive at Dome A in early 2005."

385 comments

  1. I think I know what they'll find there by namespan · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    --
    Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
    1. Re:I think I know what they'll find there by Infinity+Salad · · Score: 3, Funny

      I thought it would be Superman's Fortress of Solitude...

    2. Re:I think I know what they'll find there by ex_ottoyuhr · · Score: 1
    3. Re:I think I know what they'll find there by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      > Yesterday, a team of Chinese explorers set
      > out from Fremantle, Australia to reach Dome A
      > and set up a robotic weather station which
      > will monitor the local conditions for up to
      > five years. The team is expected to arrive at
      > Dome A in early 2005."

      The story continues: Their arrival in 2005 will be filmed by cameramen who will be helicoptered in the evening before.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    4. Re:I think I know what they'll find there by vettemph · · Score: 1

      No, Hillary Clinton's clitoris.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
  2. So, if we know its -90C .... by Zrech · · Score: 0

    Then why are they going to monitor the -90C?

  3. Question by addaon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So what happens when the temperature (down to -90C) goes below the sublimation temperature of CO2 (-76C, if I recall correctly)? Does it just freeze out of the air? I'm sure these guys will be heating (and probably humidifying) their air supply anyway, but do they need to add CO2 to keep the breathing reflexes working right?

    --

    I've had this sig for three days.
    1. Re:Question by fredistheking · · Score: 1

      The article quotes -70C which makes me wonder if there is a sort of CO2 dewpoint that prevents the temperature from changing states.

      -

    2. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well one thing is for sure, they must have nipples as hard as steel.

    3. Re:Question by addaon · · Score: 5, Funny

      "the temperature plummets to around minus 90 degrees Celsius"... of course, we don't know how that measurement was made...

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    4. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is actually not a bad question but I think you'll find that the breathing reflex is not affected by the composition of the air in the environment - rather, it is related to the carbon dioxide concentration in the blood. The carbon dioxide is created within the body as a by-product of aerobic respiration. If that carbon dioxide is freezing before they have the chance to expel it, they wouldn't be needing a breathing reflex anyway.

    5. Re:Question by Baseclass · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Damn that's cold! I didn't realize there was any place on earth where dry ice could occur naturally.

      Perhaps the the -90C figure was calculated using satellite data and/or readings from nearby weather stations.

      --
      ^^vv<><>BA
    6. Re:Question by addaon · · Score: 1

      Ooh. [forehead smack] Good point. Still must be bloody weird to have dry ice vaporizing under your boots when you step down.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    7. Re:Question by Baseclass · · Score: 1

      Although IANAS and may be talking out of my ass slightly. Other conditions may be required to freeze gaseous carbon dioxide. Perhaps somebody with more knowledge on the subject could enlighten me. Is this actually possible? A place on Earth with CO2 snow?

      --
      ^^vv<><>BA
    8. Re:Question by ComaVN · · Score: 1

      Well, since it's at an altitude of 4km, air pressure is lower, so the sublimation temperature is probably lower than at sea level too.

      --
      Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
    9. Re:Question by Aglassis · · Score: 5, Informative

      You said: "So what happens when the temperature (down to -90C) goes below the sublimation temperature of CO2 (-76C, if I recall correctly)? Does it just freeze out of the air?"

      Most likely. The phase diagram for CO2 shows that for our standard atmospheric pressure, CO2 freezes at -78.5 C. If the temperature is only slightly lower than -78.5 C it may take some time for a significant amount of CO2 to precipitate due to the latent heat of solidification for CO2 of -43 cal/g (smaller than the absolute value of water which is about -80 cal/g) . Additionally some CO2 may remain in the air which varies by temperature (which would be relative humidity for water). As the temperature drops the amount of CO2 that can be dissolved in air decreases. Unfortunately I couldn't find a reference for CO2 saturation vs temperature. If it is reasonably low (which it should be) at -90 C, CO2 frost will develop.

      On Mars with an atmospheric pressure that varies from about 5 - 10 mbar (1 atm = 1013.25 millibars), CO2 frost can develop as seen by Viking 2 and by satellite pictures of the poles. Snowflakes won't form, since the shape of a snowflake is determined by van der Waals forces (don't occur in CO2). CO2 frost should look similar to this.

      --
      Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
    10. Re:Question by metlin · · Score: 1

      "the temperature plummets to around minus 90 degrees Celsius"... of course, we don't know how that measurement was made...

      Probes?

    11. Re:Question by Xetrov · · Score: 5, Informative

      Thermal imaging from satellites?

    12. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And shrivelled size of manhood...

    13. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a feeling that that the air entering the lungs won't be -90 C. If it was, it would freeze the tissue in the lungs and kill the explorer. At the very least the nasal passage, esophogus, and bronchial passages will warm the air before it enters the lungs. To prevent damage to those passages, I would assume that they do something to warm the air prior to breathing it.

    14. Re:Question by asb · · Score: 1

      It's summer now at the Antarctic. According to this website the temperature should be somewhere around the quite comfortable -40C. The extreme -90C temperature is reached only during the winter (June-Aug).

      --
      Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
    15. Re:Question by s4m7 · · Score: 1

      Yes a very wry answer indeed, however something will need to be inhaled along with the oxygen to prevent oxygen poisoning-- something well known to divers.

      Nitrogen would be a good choice as it is not toxic to humans and doesn't even liquify until -195.8C.. again, they wouldn't be needing a breathing reflex at that temperature.

      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    16. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luckly theres a ready supply of nitrogen then isnt there...

    17. Re:Question by s4m7 · · Score: 1

      lucky that indeed, too bad it's too frigid to be inhaled without permanent lung damage.

      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    18. Re:Question by TheLittleJetson · · Score: 1

      ...do they need to add CO2 to keep the breathing reflexes working right?

      As long as all the nitrogen doesn't freeze out of the air, I think they're OK. :-)

    19. Re:Question by The+Bender · · Score: 3, Informative

      CO2 has a vapour pressure of ~400 Torr at -90 C, and a partial pressure of only 25 Torr in air, so unfortunately it won't freeze out. For that to happen, the temperature would have to go down to about -115 C. Sorry.

    20. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oxygen toxicity becomes a problem for divers because of the high partial O2 pressure they can be exposed to (assuming they are breathing pure O2, which the vast majority of divers do not). Anything above 1.6bar iirc consitutes a high risk of a fit and death.

    21. Re:Question by kettlechips · · Score: 1

      I guess an infrared image from space could have provided an idea of the temperatures there

    22. Re:Question by MoNeart · · Score: 1

      I think they have bigger problems than that, I'm pretty sure that is where HP Lovecrafts monsters sleep. ;) http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/mou ntainsofmaddness.htm

    23. Re:Question by kauttapiste · · Score: 1
      So what happens when the temperature (down to -90C) goes below the sublimation temperature of CO2 (-76C, if I recall correctly)? Does it just freeze out of the air? I'm sure these guys will be heating (and probably humidifying) their air supply anyway, but do they need to add CO2 to keep the breathing reflexes working right?


      This not really an issue in my opinion. The amount of CO2 probably doesn't affect our breathing reflexes. Think about pure oxygen treatments or the oxygen they give you when in surgery. You breathe at a rate such that your brains get enough oxygen. You might breathe at different rates even though the CO2 level is constant (e.g. after some running).


      Humidity would be a much bigger problem, though. Even at temparatures of -20C the air gets very very dry and very difficult to breathe. They certainly need some equipment to keep the air humid and possibly a tad warmer. :)

    24. Re:Question by muffin · · Score: 1

      Well, won't they be breathing nitrogen anyway? Air is about 80% nitrogen. CO2 is only 0.05% or so.

    25. Re:Question by PrvtBurrito · · Score: 1

      Van der Waals forces do occur in CO2, although I'm not sure how they differ from water (although they are probably similar in magnitude). Hydrogen bonds are probably the basis for the difference not VDW forces.

      --
      Laboratree - Scientific collaboration based on OpenSocial.
    26. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually.. no. You breath at a rate to keep your blood CO2 levels within acceptable limits. CO2 is far more toxic in the blood stream than O2 and chemorecpters are very sensitive to it. If you are breathing an air mixture rich in CO2 the reduced partial pressure gradient (going from blood to air) means that your lungs have to exchange more air to keep the blood CO2 concentration level down.

      You can breath an air mixture overly rich in oxygen and it doesn't really start to cause toxicity unless you increase the pressure (like you would if you were a diver at some depth under the water)

    27. Re:Question by zaphod123 · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Damn that's cold! I didn't realize there was any place on earth where dry ice could occur naturally."

      Apparently you don't know my ex-wife...

      --
      :q!
    28. Re:Question by Mercano · · Score: 1

      I don't think its nessasary. Space missions tend to go for a nearly pure-oxygen enironment. It saves them the weight of gasses they arn't using, and means they can lower the cabin presure, as the partial presure of oxygen is really more important then the total presure of all the atmospheric gasses.

      --
      #include <signature.h>
    29. Re:Question by hunterx11 · · Score: 1

      "She even took the dry ice cube trays out of the freezer. I mean, what kind of crazy bitch takes the dry ice cube trays out of the freezer?"

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    30. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what the result of CO2 freezing would be, but I do know that this is the middle of the summer down there (what better time to go). The -90C figures are probably taken from the dead of winter.

    31. Re:Question by Lifthrasir · · Score: 1

      doesn't 1atm = 1 bar = 1000 millibars? the variation slightly above or below 1000 is caused by local weather systems.

      --
      No beer, no TV make Lifthrasir something something
    32. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That is actually not a bad question but I think you'll find that the breathing reflex is not affected by the composition of the air in the environment

      Actually, I thought breathing reflex was affected by relative Co2 concentration in the air? Wasn't that why one can suffocate wearing a plastic bag, long before you run out of oxygen, when Co2 concentration raises too high?

    33. Re:Question by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1

      Thanks.. I was thinking about that, but I'm not a chemist, so I would have had to go hunting for that info..
      If someone has mod points, please mod parent +1 Informative.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    34. Re:Question by stevelinton · · Score: 1

      Pure CO2 would freeze at that temperature, but the partial pressure of CO2 in air is only about 3 * 10^-4 atmospheres so what is relevant is the freezing point at this pressure. Another poster helpfully supplied a phase diagram which suggests that this is below -140C, so there will not be CO2 frost even at dome A.

    35. Re:Question by dargaud · · Score: 1
      As recently posted on slashdot, I'll be wintering over at Dome C next year (leaving next week). The temperature there drops down to -84C in winter. How can I tell if there is some CO2 ice formed somewhere ?

      In the past, on cold summer days (meaning below -50C), I've noticed solid state condensation on some materials, but that's just ice (I think). Anyway, my mission blog will be here.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    36. Re:Question by addaon · · Score: 1

      Presumably. But how accurate is infrared imaging if the surface you're trying to read is essentially the same temperature as the air mass above it? Doesn't the atmosphere get in the way? Or can those things really focus down?

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
  4. Monitoring, huh? by mg2 · · Score: 5, Funny

    to set up a robotic weather station which will monitor the local conditions for up to five years

    Day 1: Cold
    Day 2: Cold
    ...

    1. Re:Monitoring, huh? by kngthdn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Day 1: Cold
      Day 2: Cold
      ...

      Day 23017: Warm.

    2. Re:Monitoring, huh? by strider44 · · Score: 1

      Well no, I think that it'll go something like this:

      Day 1: Cold
      Day 2: Damned Cold
      Day 3: For the last f***ing time, it's F***ing Cold you a**holes!
      Day 4: (let's have a competition to see who can make the best next message shall we?)

    3. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On day four they realize this is a boring, repetitive task, which thus becomes the next candidate for outsourcing. Then Slashdot posts new article: Chinese Expedition outsourced to Indians, thus initializing flame war #452431 on outsourcing.

    4. Re:Monitoring, huh? by mog007 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actully, Antarctica is the second coldest place on Earth, the first being my bed! HA! HA! HA!

      Oh... I made myself sad.

    5. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Shados · · Score: 1, Funny

      Meh...this is going to hurt my karma...but I can't help it... Day 5: ??? Day 6: Profit.. ::sighs:: I feel like such a sheep having written this...

    6. Re:Monitoring, huh? by dutchct · · Score: 0

      day 1: cold
      day 2: ?????
      day 3: profit!

    7. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      the first being my bed!

      Get a different wife/SO

    8. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

      day 3: There has been a fault in explorer.exe your system has become unstable. press Ctl-alt-Del to reboot.

      day 4: Your system seems to be out of date. Click on windows update to keep your system up to date.

      day 5: Unbelieveable low mortgage rates!

      day 6: ....

      Ok, so I'm sadistic.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:Monitoring, huh? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I once had a job processing data from remote Antarctic stations which did just that. One day the atmospheric temperature came in. It was -75 degrees C.

      Perhaps in some other places it does get to -90. Either way, I doubt a human could get any usefull work done under conditions like that.

    10. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't necessarly change things. :-(

    11. Re:Monitoring, huh? by AbbyNormal · · Score: 1

      day 7: ...

      Power's Off. Somebody needs to go back and turn it back on.

      --
      Sig it.
    12. Re:Monitoring, huh? by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 1

      It's not impossible.

      Just think totally enclosed climate.

      Build a geodesic dome. Add nuclear power plant.

      Voila, you can have a fully heated, workable environment, with much less risk/difficulty than a space station.

      Cost, now, that's a different story.

      Transport is tought, too, under those circumstances.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
    13. Re:Monitoring, huh? by corbettw · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actully, Antarctica is the second coldest place on Earth, the first being my bed! HA! HA! HA!

      For a second there I thought you might be my ex-wife.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    14. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Ummu · · Score: 0

      They are risking their lives to put an electronic thernometer....

    15. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1, Sheep

    16. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Number of girls laid?

    17. Re:Monitoring, huh? by nacturation · · Score: 1
      Actully, Antarctica is the second coldest place on Earth, the first being my bed! HA! HA! HA!

      For a second there I thought you might be my ex-wife.

      Take another look... he IS your ex-wife!! :)
      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    18. Re:Monitoring, huh? by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      Day 1: Cold
      Day 2: Cold ...


      Yeah. Sounds like winter here in Canada. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    19. Re:Monitoring, huh? by Cade144 · · Score: 1

      Wow, it can last 63 years? That's pretty darn good engineering.
      Or are you predicting the total melting of the polar ice caps in 63 years?
      Yeah, that must be it, a global warming joke.

  5. good for them by wrinkledshirt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Chinese Team Heading for Coldest Spot on Earth

    Let me know when they find my girlfriend's heart.

    --

    --------
    Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...

    1. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They said coldest place, not far off imaginary place.

    2. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Let me know when they find my girlfriend's heart.

      Shouldn't that be "ex-girlfriend's" heart?

      Either that or you're quite deserving of pity... ...or a good shaking.

    3. Re:good for them by Gentlewhisper · · Score: 2, Funny

      Despite a common misconception of the ignorant common folk, love comes from the brain. Heart has nothing to do with it. Its just a strong muscle to pump your blood.

      Wrong!

      Love comes from the... 2nd head!

    4. Re:good for them by wrinkledshirt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ha ha. I guess if a slashdotter has a girlfriend, then the coldest place right now must be Hell.

      --

      --------
      Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...

    5. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, notwithstanding the woman on TV, it isn't a misconception. It's just a figure of speech, get over it.

    6. Re:good for them by nuclear305 · · Score: 1

      "Let me know when they find my girlfriend's heart."

      Let me know if they find a scary looking guy with a pitch-fork, red skin, and horns walking around as well...

    7. Re:good for them by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Let me know when they find my girlfriend's heart.

      Wow! A fellow slashdotter with a girlfriend? That's gotta be more momentus than visiting the south pole.

      They should have a National Geographic special on it: The first geek ever observed reproducing sexually (see the April issue for asexual geek reproduction....Warning: not for the faint of heart).

    8. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>Chinese Team Heading for Coldest Spot on Earth
      >Let me know when they find my girlfriend's heart.

      Yeah, vinyl feels rather cold this time of the year.

    9. Re:good for them by man_ls · · Score: 1

      yeah....my thermometer says it's about to ice over.

      course I'm only a recreational slashdotter.

    10. Re:good for them by timster · · Score: 1

      Geeks can reproduce, but generally only with other geeks. This used to be pretty bad since basically all the geeks were male. However, geek couples have the same 50/50 ratio of sons to daughters, and over time it has been shown that geek daughters tend to remain geeks. That's why it's now much easier to find geek girls than it was in the past.

      While geek girls are often able to find mates in the non-geek population if they so desire, they have over time increasingly preferred geek guys. As a result, the population as a whole is expected to speciate within 75 years (homo smartus).

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    11. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to Dante's Inferno, the deepest levels of hell are quite cold, and being frozen in ice is the form of suffering that most of its inhabitants endure (except for poor Judas and Barnabas, who are perpetually chewed upon within the mouths of Satan...I am sure they are cold too, but don't notice due to the perpetual puncturing).

      just FYI...

    12. Re:good for them by greenhide · · Score: 2, Funny

      homo smartus

      While the members of the football team will continue to call them "homos".

      --
      Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
    13. Re:good for them by JadeRabbit · · Score: 1

      Okay, so I consider myself to be a geek girl, and I have found and married a geek guy. But since we are intelligent enough to know about birth control, there aren't, nor are there likely to be, any geek children resulting from this bonding.

      I know this one circumstance doesn't disprove your statement, but I think that the chance of geeks multiplying by reproduction is going to continue to be less effective than geeks multiplying by conversion.

    14. Re:good for them by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I know this one circumstance doesn't disprove your statement, but I think that the chance of geeks multiplying by reproduction is going to continue to be less effective than geeks multiplying by conversion.

      One of my favorite Dilbert cartoons was when Dilbert was trying to reproduce by mitosis to avoid the trouble of mating.

  6. User error by XipX · · Score: 1, Informative
    I quote
    A 12-man Chinese expedition will leave Shanghai for Antarctica on October 25, targeting the highest polar icecap peak- 4,039 meters above sea level
    1. Re:User error by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many societies on Earth consider jokes to be funny. If it's not funny, it's not a joke.

  7. Excellent teamwork by raahul_da_man · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's good to see the spirit of exploration is not dead. I am slightly puzzled by the story though. Why, if Australians are training the Chinese expeditioners, are they doing it in Fremantle?

    That really doesn't seem a close match for the climatic conditions in the Antarctica. It may be far too easy compared to the high altitudes they are facing.

    It would also be interesting to learn what challenges are involved in building those automated weather recording stations. How *do* they keep it running unattended for 20 years with batteries?

    1. Re:Excellent teamwork by daveashcroft · · Score: 1

      radioisotopic generators? hmmm, but i guess antarctica is supposed to be free of those.

    2. Re:Excellent teamwork by darnok · · Score: 1

      > Why, if Australians are training the Chinese
      > expeditioners, are they doing it in Fremantle?

      They started training them in Ballarat, but even elite Antarctic explorers can only take so much cold weather...

    3. Re:Excellent teamwork by hayden · · Score: 1

      My guess is we're not training them. Fremantle is so-so close to the Antarctic, although they usually depart from Tasmania.

      --
      Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
    4. Re:Excellent teamwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I helped design those weather stations, we use 148 Saft Lithium-thionyl chloride (Li-SOCl2) 20 AHr batteries. The weather station averages about 1 mA at 12 V. The batteries aer burries in the snow about 3 m where we expect the temperature to be about -65 C.

      We cannot find any batteries that could be recharged at this temperature, Li-SOCl2 batteries are the only option. We also have solar pannels for the summer months. Without the solar pannels the station should last 5 years, with the pannels we might get 7-10 years, and 20 years of data for summer.

      The trick with getting things working at that temperatures was testing, we find that most things work (chips etc) but we test all the parts here first.

      Peter Jansen
      Australian Antarctic Division

    5. Re:Excellent teamwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod Up ... insightful

      Cold in the Swiss Alps does not even come close to Ballarat. (Buninyong to Fribourg) (ok, well pre-Alps)

    6. Re:Excellent teamwork by dcw3 · · Score: 0

      Dear Peter,

      Just a suggestion...when posting as an AC, you might want to consider taking your name out of the sig block.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    7. Re:Excellent teamwork by laudney · · Score: 1
      We find that most things work (chips etc) but we test all the parts here first.
      Chips not only should work, but also can be overlocked.
    8. Re:Excellent teamwork by Frogbert · · Score: 1
      Why, if Australians are training the Chinese expeditioners, are they doing it in Fremantle?

      That really doesn't seem a close match for the climatic conditions in the Antarctica. It may be far too easy compared to the high altitudes they are facing.

      Never been to Fremantle huh?
    9. Re:Excellent teamwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he's not a regular here, or even then, why would he bother registering?

    10. Re:Excellent teamwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or maybe he can't be arsed making an account.

      Either that or it's something about being able to deny reading Slashdot at the intervention more readily if he has no account.

    11. Re:Excellent teamwork by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for some setting up an account takes too long

    12. Re:Excellent teamwork by FireFury03 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      (Serious question)

      Did you guys consider using a small RTG instead of batteries? Are there good reasons for using batteries instead of an RTG (cost, environmental, etc?)

    13. Re:Excellent teamwork by Idarubicin · · Score: 1
      Did you guys consider using a small RTG instead of batteries? Are there good reasons for using batteries instead of an RTG (cost, environmental, etc?)

      Primarily, I expect they fear the idiot backlash from Greenpeace.

      There may also be political and security issues associated with leaving a box of radioisotopes unattended for long periods of time.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  8. First thing that came to mind by Klowner · · Score: 3, Funny

    when reading this headline..

    Inside Martha Stewart's Pants..

    1. Re:First thing that came to mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fie on you. True Slashbots know that the coldest place on Earth is in Natalie Portman's Pants.. why do you think there's so many calls for hot grits to go down there?

    2. Re:First thing that came to mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but now that she's in prison...

  9. Re:Summary error by I_Love_Pocky! · · Score: 1

    Why would they name a low point a dome? It would make sense that the highest point would be the coldest.

  10. Lies! by McBeer · · Score: 3, Funny

    My liquid nitrogen cooled case is the coldest place on earth!

    --
    Hikery.net - The best hiking site ever. Made by yours truly.
    1. Re:Lies! by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      My liquid nitrogen cooled case is the coldest place on earth!

      So, just how did you fit the Chinese in there?

    2. Re:Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rice and chow mein goes in quite nicely.

  11. Re:My experiences in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You business takes you to every continent... even Antartica? What do you import/export to/from there?

  12. No. by wankledot · · Score: 4, Funny
    "They will also test whether it is suitable for human beings to live in the harsh environment there," he said.

    No, it's not.

    Next question?

    --
    My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
    1. Re:No. by taj · · Score: 1


      Ya? Well we have been there for ages. We even made a movie about it in 1996!

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116282/

  13. Re:My experiences in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PENGUINS.

    Hooray for Pokey.

  14. Typo by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 1

    I think you meant:
    "It was an idiot's joke"

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  15. Good for China! by mOoZik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I mean, really. Look at all the things China is doing vis-a-vis science, technology, exploration, etc. They're like the Soviet Union of the 50's, involved in everything from space exploration to breaking records, to generally advancing its culture and playing a greater role in the world. Just a thought - don't grill me about their deficiencies.

    1. Re:Good for China! by ender81b · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Heh. The US science and R&D budget is probably bigger than China's whole national budget.

      As a matter of fact:
      China 2003 (world factbook)
      revenues: $265.8 billion
      expenditures: $300.2 billion, including capital expenditures of $NA (2003

      That would be China's entire National budget. Figures for US

      $275 billion - in 2001. Just in Science spending, from here. The US numbers are, of course, including private research - which, btw, is $57 billion in China. We're talking orders of magnitude here :).

    2. Re:Good for China! by Coulson · · Score: 1

      That's scary... the government of the Soviet Union was completely insane during the 50s. (We're talking paranoid batsh*t crazy -- Stalin and then Krushchev.) The USSR was pumping massive resources into publicity stunts and international PR efforts. Meanwhile, internal political oppression and poverty ran rampant. I don't want to see China following in their footsteps.

      I hope China is funding this mission for the cause of science, not as part of a PR campaign for the People's March of Progress.

    3. Re:Good for China! by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's okay. If China becomes too much like the Soviet Union, just close down all our WalMarts and Toys-R-Us's and their economy would tank like a lead iceberg.

    4. Re:Good for China! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Likewise was the government of the Soviet Union completely insane, paranoid bullshit crazy, and we did all of the bullshit they did, on top of that... They thought the freakin russians would rain down upon us, and that we'd have to learn Russian. Stalin, yeah he was crazy, and an asshole, but I won't say we were much better in some respects.

      Kennedy brought us, in many respects, closer to full-on nuclear war than any president ever; granted, this is '61, and we're talking '50's. But the rationale of the 50's poured over to Kennedy, at least. I'm a democrat, mind you, but I've got to say perhaps it wasn't such a bad thing that this guy got it; 'cause he would have undoubtedly ran for a second term, and might have screwed our international relations even further.

      What could've been solved with some simple communication back then, was attempted to be solved by grandstanding. Highly frustrating.

    5. Re:Good for China! by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

      They're like the Soviet Union of the 50's,

      Hey, that's great! That means that the Chinese people will only be brutally subjugated under the cold boot of tyrany for another forty years! Hold on China, the light at the end of the tunnel is getting closer...

      *FORTY MORE YEARS! FORTY MORE YEARS!*

      --

      HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
    6. Re:Good for China! by RollingThunder · · Score: 1

      You should probably consider COLA (cost of living adjustments). How much of the US R&D budget is salaries? That's going to be one hell of a lot cheaper in China.

    7. Re:Good for China! by ender81b · · Score: 1

      undoubtedly, but with research most/alot of the investment tends to be in hard to manufacture/extremely expensive equipment, not in salaries (there are plenty of grad students around! :)). I'm sure it scews the result some, but not all that much I would say. Perhaps an extra $1-2 billion ?

    8. Re:Good for China! by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      I would suggest a communist regime could probably get better value for money on scientific expenditure than america, i mean:

      china: You're good at this, come out of the pre-fab population housing, and come to the slightly less crappy pre-fab population housing and build polar stations.

      America: You're good at this, how many hojillion dollars would your company like?

      heh, maybe i'll change my sig to: for insightful answer, please remove embellishment

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    9. Re:Good for China! by kfg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I was in college we built the second most stable laser table in the world, for $700. Stanford had the most stable. Theirs cost over a million.

      One of the problems that American science faces is the degree to which it relies on money where determination and ingenuity will often get the job done. This often results in no science getting done when the perception is that there isn't enough money to do any.

      The Chinese are very good at getting things done without a lot of money because lack of funds is their native enviroment. As an example, if you were stranded in the woods you would likely starve to death, because you couldn't find a place to buy food. A person raised in the woods simply eats. Reverse the situation though, put the woodsy guy in the city and he can still scrounge a meal or two completely on his own, without a dime in his pocket, because he doesn't think about needing money, he thinks about finding what he needs, so he goes about and finds it. If he has to go hungry a day or two he doesn't waste time fretting about not having money, he simply thinks of that as a normal part of life and continues looking for what he needs until he finds it.

      Now let's apply the same idea to a technology race. I posit a bicycle race from NYC to LA. The two participants start with the clothes on their backs and ten bucks each seed capital. They're allowed to get more money, but they have to earn it on their own.

      My neighbor, representing "Western" science, would solve the issue this way; he'd go out and get a job (50% of the procedes of which will go to supporting the job itself. One of the first things he's likely buy in this bicycle race is a car, then fancy clothes that are worthless while bicycling cross country, but that he needs to wear to work, etc.). When he has enough money he'll books on bicycling, maybe join a gym, order catalogs and start making his list of required equipment, then, when he as enough money, he'll but the stuff and after a year, maybe two, he'll set off in the actual bicycling.

      Me, representing "Eastern" science will use the ten bucks to buy a couple of wrenches and a screw driver. I'll be on the road in a week, maybe two, scrounging what I need along the way (including a bit of work to have some money in my pocket). I'll be sipping a Pepsi on Venice Beach in a month, maybe two.

      What's more, I'll already be a colonized native of Venice Beach, with a job and local connections, long before the other guy arrives and has to compete with me.

      China can get to Mars first without spending much money, compared to us, and the first one to establish a base is the likely long term winner, no matter how "primitive" they are in their manner of doing it.

      Hell, they could still beat us out on the moon, even though they're starting 40 years behind, because we went there first, but then abandoned it.

      It's not the guy who plants the first flag on the mountaintop who wins. It's the guy who builds the first castle there. Once the mountain stronghold is built you just try and go knock him off the mountain.

      KFG

    10. Re:Good for China! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, then look how quickly they still install Martial Law. All those rice paddy workers are the most abused in the world.

    11. Re:Good for China! by Jason+Hood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its amusing how America is _constantly_ bashed worldwide for "human rights violations" and "civil liberties infringments" and China is completely ignored.

      The Patriot Act is bad? How about a court system without a real appeals system and has no checks and balances. How about forcing elementry school students to the local stadium so have them watch and cheer executions of corrupted businessmen. Yeah, that still happens in some cities there, ask the Peace Corps.

      Its its really about attaining your goals and not being accountable for _how_ you got there, then by all means, go China! What a Country!

      the US surely isnt purfect but the typical slashdot double standard gets really old.

      --
      Are you intolerant of intolerant people?
    12. Re:Good for China! by fbg111 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, the ignorance of the average /. poster on the history and methods of Communism is, while expected due to America's shitty pre-college education system, disheartening nonetheless. The Communists devised a method of social change based upon the philosophies of relativism (right and wrong are only what those in power say they are and enforce), materialism (human beings have no eternal soul, therefore no individual value, hence no individual rights, and the only thing that matters is the overall happiness of society, even if you have to kill a few million wrong-thinking capitalists/bourgeosie/ect. to achieve that), and dialectics (every social state or force has an opposite, an antithesis, which when combined with violent revolution creates the "synthesis", or new state of existence). They used this to justify systematic, government mass murder, oppression, and thought control in an attempt to create "progress" (hence the label Progressive) and utopia. Utopia was an end that could justify any means among the public sheep, and it did, but utopia was never achieved.

      All these idiots who criticize America and hail the Communists are guilty of an obscene case of "the grass is always greener". America isn't perfect, but any sane, decent, and informed person would take it any day over the USSR or Communist China.

      --
      Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
    13. Re:Good for China! by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      The US pertains to be free, China does not. Thats the reason people bash the US for human rights violations and civil liberties infringements but dont bash China for it, China doesnt pretend that its country doesnt include those things.

    14. Re:Good for China! by ender81b · · Score: 1

      Possibly, then again some would argue that the beaucracy of a communist nation, and the central planning thereof, would be a hinderance to its scientific goals (certainly killed USSR from about 1970 onwards).

      As a side note, if you want to read about funny/scary/interesting things about mcmurdo station check out http://www.bigdeadplace.com

    15. Re:Good for China! by ender81b · · Score: 1

      I'm sure your partially right, and that in less modern countries where there isn't as much money things can get done for far cheaper than they would in the west. With that being said...

      Certain things can't. Space exploration, massive computing grids, particle accelators, etc all require massive bucks. And while there might be a big waste of money (hell I'll even give you $50 billion) off the US' r&d budget, they are still spending 5 times as much as China.

      Not that i'm saying its bad (I still don't know why i was modded as flamebait) I wish every country would spend more money on science.

    16. Re:Good for China! by kfg · · Score: 1

      Certain things can't.

      How much do you suppose it would cost, using all the engineering prowess and modern technology America can bring to bear to build a stone wall from NYC to LA?

      Now how much do you suppose it would cost doing it duplicating how the Chinese did it many, many years ago? No lawyers, no OSHA, no salaries of workers, thus not even much in the way of materials cost, no real estate costs, etc?

      Well, a massive amount of money actually, but a far, far less massive amount than the massive amount required to do it our way.

      An interesting part is that it would also take far less time, even without the aid of ground moving machines and power stone cutters. Lawyers eat time like you wouldn't believe.

      I'm afraid this applies directly to the cost of building a particle accelerator. There's nothing magically special about a particle accelerator that puts it in another catagory from any other large engineering project. There's no extra charge because it's "science" project.

      Hell, you could build a perfectly functional particle accelerator in your basement for vitually nil, if you're willing to regard your time and labor as being without cost. Not one you could use to look for the Higgs boson, admitedly, but one that would get you to Mars just as fast.

      As would the computer you used to write your post with, as compared to a massive grid.

      (I still don't know why i was modded as flamebait)

      Mods on crack?

      I wish every country would spend more money on science.

      Whereas I would be perfectly happy if they simply spent what they do far more wisely. Newton's calculus and laws of gravitation and the Special Theory of Relativity were "spare time" projects developed at, effectively, no cost.

      It's something to think about.

      Simply adding more men and money doesn't necessarily mean any greater return at all. Mostly it's an employment project.

      KFG

    17. Re:Good for China! by Jason+Hood · · Score: 1

      I think you ment pretends right?

      So all we have to do is "own up" to the very few cases where this _may_ have been an issue and we will be viewed as a good country. Cool.

      I wish that legal defense worked in court, I could get away with anything...

      --
      Are you intolerant of intolerant people?
  16. The continuing rise of China. by Coryoth · · Score: 5, Interesting

    China seem to be determined to push boundaries at the moment. Putting a man in orbit is no mean feat. Yes the US did it along time ago, but I don't see them doing it at all at the moment due to the shuttle grounding. Now pushing for the still unexplored regions of the world. I wonder if they have any deep sea missions planned for some time in the next few years. China has definitely decided that they have somethign to prove. The impressive part is that they aren't doing a bad job of proving it.

    And this really ought to mildly concern people in the US. Yes the US already has done most of these things or something similar (they have a couple of Antarctic bases, one at the pole I believe). But that's the key point. The US has done such things, but doesn't seem to be expending quite the effort they use to on pushing boundaries of exploration and science. Increasingly it seems to be Chinese and Indians with the real fire to try and push ahead. And all the better I say. The US seemed to slacken off and grow complacent, so its about time there was some serious competition again.

    Go China.

    (Hopefully they can break new ground sorting out their political issues too)

    Jedidiah.

    1. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Erwos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Increasingly it seems to be Chinese and Indians with the real fire to try and push ahead."

      The problem is, you just contradicted yourself. They're not pushing ahead. They're replicating the feats of 50 years ago, just as you pointed out. All this has been done before.

      You're not pushing ahead until you do something NEW. And the Chinese and Indians haven't done that.

      -Erwos

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    2. Re:The continuing rise of China. by praksys · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There seem to be two responses going:

      (1) China/India is now out-pacing the US.
      (2) Yawn, they are finally catching up with the USA of the 1950's.

      Neither strikes me as justified. The US is still pushing the boundaries of exploration and science in ways that neither country can hope to match any time soon, but that doesn't mean that their efforts count for nothing. Both countries are again making significant contributions to the sum of human achievement and knowledge. We should all be happy about that.

    3. Re:The continuing rise of China. by davejenkins · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US has done such things, but doesn't seem to be expending quite the effort they use to on pushing boundaries of exploration and science. Increasingly it seems to be Chinese and Indians with the real fire to try and push ahead. And all the better I say. The US seemed to slacken off and grow complacent, so its about time there was some serious competition again.

      What the hell are you talking about? The US is pouring billions into research on a myriad of efforts:
      1. Robotic missions to Saturn
      2. Two (TWO!) golf carts running around ON MARS drilling holes in rocks as I write this
      3. cranking out pharmeceuticals at an incredible pace
      4. Internet II
      5. restoring the everglades
      6. Scaled Composites PRIVATE astronauts
      7. GPS satellite system (+70 birds)

      You may be missing it because most of the really bitchen things done in the US are done by private companies (thank God), but the US govt efforts are still pretty big and pretty kick-ass in my book.

      Alternatively, the Chinese are doing things that everyone else did 40 years ago. They aren't pushing a single boundary, ANYWHERE.

    4. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Trent05 · · Score: 1

      I wonder if they have any deep sea missions planned for some time in the next few years.

      Looks like they do!!

      --


      --
      The Marines: The few, the proud, the not very bright. - Slashdot tagline 04/21/05
    5. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Spheroid2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What do you mean 'sorting out their political issues'? I think most Chinese are perfectly happy with the status quo. The US is not exactly a paragon of virtue here either - see recent elections.

    6. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      restoring the everglades

      If by ``restoring the everglades'' you mean ``stealing people's land using eminent domain'', then sure, they're restoring the everglades.

      Eminent domain is the vilest process the government can practice. It is everything this country is supposed to stand against, even when it's not being used to take land from the poor (often poor family farmers) and give to the rich, all in the name of economic development. Ever wonder what's happening to small farms and why the farming industry in America is so bad? It's not possible to make a small farm as profitable as a large farm when the large farm feeds cows moldy feed, parts of other dead cows, and rivers of antibiotics. If eminent domain were made a requirement, the result would be that only rich people would ever get land, because more money bankrolling a process makes it more ``economic.''

      *That second link doesn't work as I'm writing this. It was amendment three on the ballot, and you can reach the amendment from here and a Google cache link here.

    7. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US is not exactly a paragon of virtue here either - see recent elections. Yeah, I know. Kerry got almost half of the vote. Any nation with virtue wouldn't have even let him on the ballot.

    8. Re:The continuing rise of China. by kfg · · Score: 1

      Alternatively, the Chinese are doing things that everyone else did 40 years ago. They aren't pushing a single boundary, ANYWHERE.

      The funny thing is that that's pretty much what the British were saying about America 40 or 50 years before that. 40 years is time enough for the whole world to change, but short enough for you to have to live in the end result.

      Boundries are local affairs as well as global. To push the global boundries first you must push your own out to meet the global limits. . .then keep going.

      Remember, before he started training for it Roger Bannister couldn't run a 4 minute mile either and lots of other runners were faster than he was.

      He still got their first.

      Don't you kid yourself, China is playing to win and they have everything they need to do so.

      KFG

    9. Re:The continuing rise of China. by commodoresloat · · Score: 1
      They aren't pushing a single boundary, ANYWHERE.

      I don't know about that. They're ahead of just about everyone in human rights violations, internet censorship, and repression of religious groups.

    10. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      The US is still pushing the boundaries of exploration and science in ways that neither country can hope to match any time soon

      No you aren't. I'm not trolling here, just making a serious point. Your inovation has died due to patent profiteering. Your political system is openly corrupt. Science is allowed, provided it sits well with Christian theology. America is going nowhere fast, until you fix the fundamental problems. And even then, the US only inovations have been in the field of killing more people more quickly. Yay USA, something to be proud of I'm sure.

      So, where exactly do you get the "can hope to match any time soon" from? I'm just curious, because the fact that the US hasn't led global inovation for decades is clear to just about everyone. Yet there is this delusional arrogance.

      I completely agree with the rest of your post, and the point of it. The predicatable "USA USA USA" mantra from Americans is to be expected, as is their hatred of just about anyone that is different from them. These responses dominate the majority of any discussion on China's endevors.

    11. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      They're ahead of just about everyone in human rights violations, internet censorship, and repression of religious groups

      May I be the first to point out that Amnesty International has said bad things about the US on most of those counts. You lock folk up without trial, the media follows the party line (pretty much censorship), Christians prosper, Islamics are hated.

      Not all that different really!

    12. Re:The continuing rise of China. by thomasa · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the USA is too concerned about Moral Values.
      You know, keeping the sanctity of marriage and keeping the oil companies in the money.

    13. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hummmm. How many executions in Texas? Does abu graib do anything? In fact, how about Iraq? Or Gitanomo Bay? Or our wonderful prisons (I always laugh when I hear of americans complain about about 3'rd world countries prisons)? Or our sids rate? or our HIV rate? or our crime rate? Or Patriot Act? or our ....

      Kettle, pot, black. I think that in this day and age, that we are the last nation to worry about China's record and how they treat their citizens. We need to get back to thinking about how we are doing.

    14. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go to China and see how many people are willing to speak out against their oppressive government. Censorship is the rule there. You probably haven't seen the level of corruption either, or the environmental state around the industrial areas like Beijing. China is improving in many areas, but still far from the level of first world countries.

    15. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed; the ability to explore the planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

    16. Re:The continuing rise of China. by mikelieman · · Score: 1

      Get back to me when your kids are hired labor on some Chinese orbital station.

      At least the food will be good!

      --
      Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
    17. Re:The continuing rise of China. by bigdaisy · · Score: 1

      I read that one as:

      3. cranking out pharmaceuticals at an incredible PRICE

    18. Re:The continuing rise of China. by mirio · · Score: 1

      So, I guess you didn't read the news yesterday, huh?

    19. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      Go to China and see how many people are willing to speak out against their oppressive government.

      I did. May I point out that most people in the USA were unwilling to say anything against the US government for the two years following 9-11 for fear of being called "unpatriotic". You are reaching the point where things like TIA mean you have fear of saying anything out-of-line, as you lose your travel privledges ("do not fly" list), or get yourself investigated. Undercover agents attend all protest meetings and gatherings, taking photographs of who is there and what they do. All linked into your personal profile containing your politics, religion, dietry preferences and so on.

      The funny thing is, every day China becomes more capitalistic. On the other hand, the USA becomes more like China.

    20. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      1. The Cassini mission, for one, is a joint mission of NASA and ESA
      2. Again, except for the coolness factor, is there really hard evidence that these missions yield more tangible results than ESA's Mars Express, for example?
      3. I assume you're not talking about the flu vaccine. Ah, no, none of that would have been produced in the US anyway.
      4. As far as quality/price of internet access for the people is concerned, the US is nowhere near the top anymore.
      5. Ok, so now they're undoing things they screwed up 50 years ago. Not to worry, the current administration will screw up enough other thigns for later generations to fix as well. Kyoto *cough*
      6. Their success only gets amplified by NASA's incompetence and lack of vision.
      7. The Russians had GLONASS for a long time. The Europeans, with the Chinese and others, build Galileo. Another fine display of how much other countries trust the US.

      The only boundary that many Americans seem eager and capable of pushing these days is in the realm of self-righteousness and complacency.

    21. Re:The continuing rise of China. by praksys · · Score: 2

      What's with all this "your" stuff? I'm not American.

      the fact that the US hasn't led global inovation for decades is clear to just about everyone. Yet there is this delusional arrogance

      Decades? So we are not counting the creation of the internet or the human genome project - just to pick a couple of obvious examples?

      Your "everything about America sucks" kind of post is just as unreasonable as the "Go USA!" mantra you complain about.

    22. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1

      What's with all this "your" stuff? I'm not American.

      From the tone of your e-mail, the "USA is the greatest" belief, I assumed you were. You gave a nod towards America being some sort of pillar of the world community, which they are the exact opposite of.

      So we are not counting the creation of the internet

      Well, practically all of the foundation technologies (switching) and the layers on top of the internet (WWW etc) were invented outside the USA. All the US saw was a military application (communications) and threw money at it.

      or the human genome project

      Don't know much about the logistics of that one, but from the frontpage on their homepage:

      During the early years of the HGP, the Wellcome Trust (U.K.) became a major partner; additional contributions came from Japan, France, Germany, China, and others.

      Your "everything about America sucks" kind of post is just as unreasonable as the "Go USA!" mantra you complain about.

      Somewhat true, however my beliefs are based in fact and history, while the USA mantra is blindly based on propaganda. America has done nothing for the world in the last 50 years except create problem after problem. This is done under the guise of "good-doing" but ultimately comes down to ecconomic self-interest, with people like Saddam and Bin Laden as former allies, when it suited them.

      Since the re-election of Bush, I have lost all respect and self-restraint from the critism of all things "American". I still respect what America used to be, just not what it is now. If I see what appears to be one shitting on some other country in a hypocrytical maner, I will tear them appart. Sorry, but the gloves are off. WW3 is coming, take your sides now.

    23. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Johnny5000 · · Score: 1

      "You're not pushing ahead until you do something NEW. And the Chinese and Indians haven't done that."

      It's new for *them*

      I think that's the important thing.

      --
      The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
    24. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      Woo! A fellow study of China. Good, insightful comments all around.

      A favorite teacher once explained China's current situation like this.

      The young and old CCP are riding in a taxi which is coming to a fork in the road. To the left is a sign labeled: Communism. To the right, a sign labeled: Capitalism.

      The driver asks which way to go.

      The young CCP thinks for a moment, steals a glance at the half dozing old CCP, and leans in to the driver. "Signal a turn to the left, but go right."

    25. Re:The continuing rise of China. by mfago · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since the re-election of Bush, I have lost all respect and self-restraint from the critism of all things "American".

      OT, but...

      Don't forget that 49% of Americans are as upset as you are. More so: we live here!

      And Bush talks about "healing the divide" -- yea sure. Division, derision, hate, fear, uncertainty and doubt are his "moral values." I'm curious who wrote his Bible.

    26. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Eccles · · Score: 1

      At least the food will be good!

      Yeah, but an hour later, they'll have to send up another resupply ship...

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    27. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      Don't forget that 49% of Americans are as upset as you are. More so: we live here!

      My point exactly! Bush is a clear liar, hate/fear mongeror, corrupt, not suited for the role, I could go on for days how much a disaster this guy is for world peace. Your media should have tore him apart for the lies and propaganda leading up to the Iraq Conquest, yet they didn't. In fact, he won the election.

      So therefore you are a part of my problem. As I said, you guys lost a lot of respect from me on Nov 14th, and I doubt I'm alone in these feelings. America is broken just now.

    28. Re:The continuing rise of China. by i41Overlord · · Score: 1

      So therefore you are a part of my problem. As I said, you guys lost a lot of respect from me on Nov 14th, and I doubt I'm alone in these feelings. America is broken just now.

      We're not part of your problem, WE voted for Kerry. The people who voted for Bush are part of your problem. And what happened on November 14th? That was 3 days ago.

      If you're going to bash and blame the people who agree with you, you're still making enemies out of them. Of course they're going to fight against you. The people who voted for Bush aren't declaring me their enemy but you are. Whose side do you think I'll take- the one who is attacking me or the one that isn't?

      If you want to win a battle you don't create more enemies. It's a basic concept, but Bush doesn't understand it and neither do you. You're no better than he is.

    29. Re:The continuing rise of China. by nyekulturniy · · Score: 1

      The Chinese effort to push new boundaries reminds me of the Soviet Union during the 1930s, when Soviet aviators were setting records all over the place, including an overpolar flight to the U.S. (If you have seen the Marx Brothers' skit where they pretend to be foreign aviators, it's based on that stunt.)

      Then came the purges, and the Great Patriotic War, and a setback until the 1960s, when the Soviets were doing it AGAIN.

      One message China is setting today is that they are no longer a regional power, but a major world power.

      --
      Nyekulturniy... Proudly confusing readers and editors since 1981!
    30. Re:The continuing rise of China. by dustinbarbour · · Score: 1

      Ah yes.. Let us not forget that Europe is really pushing hard, too. You guys are in the same boat the US is in. So please, spare me your one-sided bias.

    31. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      If you want to win a battle you don't create more enemies. It's a basic concept, but Bush doesn't understand it and neither do you. You're no better than he is.

      Oh, I understand. I just don't care. The election was a travesty. The mere fact that he was allowed to stand given his track record of deceipt is apauling. The whole country should have been up in arms about it.

      As I said, I have no respect for Americans anymore. All of you. I know that is wrong, and I shouldn't feel that way, but I do. What passes for "democracy" in the US scares me and I worry in which way the world is heading.

      We have a man who believes in revelations (and his redemption and everlasting life following) AND has the means to bring it about through WW3, which he is taking us to gradually. Terrifing.

      You've all put my life in danger by allowing him to be re-elected. And I'm not sure I'll ever forgive your nation for that; you've certainally all completely lost my respect for a very long time. And this is from someone who used to love the US and visit anually. I still respect what the US used to stand for, I'm genuinely worried about what it's become. I won't be back.

    32. Re:The continuing rise of China. by i41Overlord · · Score: 1

      You've all put my life in danger by allowing him to be re-elected. And I'm not sure I'll ever forgive your nation for that; you've certainally all completely lost my respect for a very long time. And this is from someone who used to love the US and visit anually. I still respect what the US used to stand for, I'm genuinely worried about what it's become. I won't be back.

      I didn't allow him to get re-elected, I voted for Kerry. What amazes me is some of the most politically motivated people in this country don't vote, they just attend marches and complain.

      Right now I'm just along for the ride in an out of control car. I don't need need people taking cheap shots at me for something that's beyond my control. I did everything I could and was outnumbered.

    33. Re:The continuing rise of China. by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      Officially, we don't worry about China's human rights record -- the U.S. has no problem doing business with them without pressuring them to change the way they treat people. All I did was criticize China -- I never said the U.S. was immune to this sort of criticism, although I do think that even given all the problems you cite (and many others), the U.S. is still far better off, human-rights-wise, than China. Yeah, we have more people in prison than China, but they aren't tortured quite as routinely and they (usually) aren't put there for speaking out against the government. I'm the last to whitewash America's crimes, but don't even try to convince me that it is as bad for political rights in the U.S. as it is in the P.R.C.

    34. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just curious, what country are you from glesga_kiss?

    35. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't vote for Bush either. I did all I could do given the political system that exists in america. I AM up in arms about it. BUT there isn't one god damn thing that can be done about it. I voted for Kerry, it was all that I could do as an American to try to fix what was broken. I didn't beleive that Kerry had all the answers, but I DID believe that he wanted the fighting to stop.

    36. Re:The continuing rise of China. by rk · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Sorry, but the gloves are off. WW3 is coming, take your sides now.

      As an American who despises Bush and Co., and is extremely worried about the direction our nation is being led, I would like to point out that what you just said is part and parcel the Bush mantra. "You're either with us, or against us." Your seemingly Manichean posture here is as equally repellent to me as Bush's simplistic dividing line. I may take sides, and I assure you it won't be Bush's.

      But it won't be yours, either.

    37. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all let me say that I'm no Bush supporter, or a flag-waver.

      Second - your attitude sucks so please - don't come back to the US, we don't want you.

      Third - if you REALLY think that the difference in leadership REALLY changes things very much, you're sadly mistaken and need a little perspective. Take even the most extreme case: the fall of the Soviet Union. The leadership changed and the rich-and-powerful are still rich and powerful while the poor people in breadlines are basically in the same situation. Bush vs Kerry would *hardly* affect you directly

      Fourth - the topic of this thread is supposed to be about China and its innovations, not how the US gov't may or may not be putting your life in danger

      Fifth - GET OVER YOURSELF - WWIII is not coming, neither is Doomsday and whether you think the US has or hasn't contributed to science in the past 50 years is irrelevant. What do you think American researchers and scientists have been doing for the past 50 years, producing nothing? please, wake up.

    38. Re:The continuing rise of China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      PRIVATE astronauts

      You may be missing it because most of the really bitchen things done in the US are done by private companies (thank God)

      This is something I do not understand -- why would it be better that it's private companies instead of the government? Who cares? What's all this hoopla about "private space flight"? I just don't get the dogma of the Church of Private Sector I guess...

    39. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      Just curious, what country are you from glesga_kiss?

      Answering a AC, but what the hell, I'm from Scotland. A country used to being under control of foreign governments of which we have little influence over.

    40. Re:The continuing rise of China. by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      if you REALLY think that the difference in leadership REALLY changes things very much[snip] Bush vs Kerry would *hardly* affect you directly

      Wrong. As a white person, there is now an entire region of the world I am unwelcome in and it would be unsafe to visit. By invading Iraq, Bush created a divide across the globe. That very much affects ME directly. As a UK citizen, a part of this "colalition", my life is at risk every day. Contary to what you are told, terrorists don't hate freedom or the west, they hate American foreign policy (rightly so, as anyone familiar with the history has to conclude). Until the butt-fuck of Tony Blair, Islamic terrorism was never a concern to the UK. Now we are a potential target.

      Kerry would have repaired some of the damage done. Bush will only continue in his "work". So, the result of the election DOES affect me, and almost everyone else on the planet.

      this thread is supposed to be about China and its innovations

      Which WAS my original point. Most posters where slating China through typical cold war hatred and preduces. I took offence to this, as I am sick of seeing every thread about China being a hate fest. The Chinese are going to be one of the most dominant nations in the 21st century, and this pre-disposed hatred scares me. Most Americans are incredibly racist, that kind of attitude would not be tolerated in many countries around the globe.

      GET OVER YOURSELF - WWIII is not coming, neither is Doomsday

      Christians believe that there will never be peace on earth until EVERYONE believes in Christianity. And they are willing to do this by the sword if it comes to it. Bush is a very spirital person, and fully believes in what he is saying. He threatens countries with nuclear arms. He invaded countries knowing full well that it would generate infinite hatred for the west. And he has made a point of making clear that "you're either with us or against us". This is exactly how world wars are started. Don't have it in your head that things like WW1/2 will never happen again. All that's changed is the technology, we are still the same people with the same aspirations, fears etc. WW3 is entirely possible.

  17. Re:FUCK ALL FAGS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Let me guess: red state, right?

  18. This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Chinese aren't going there as a big PR exercise. If you haven't noticed, the Chinese aren't big on grand, meaningless showboating: they do what they do because it furthers their long-term objectives, not because it wins them short-term positive press coverage.

    The long-term thinking and objectives behind this sort of expedition is space exploration. If the Chinese can successfully establish a base in one of the least hospitable places on the planet, and overcome the physical, logistical, pyschological and other hurdles that such an endeavour involves, then they will have gained valuable experience and climed another rung up the ladder towards the eventual establishment of a populated lunar or Martian base.

    They aren't going there for the scenery, they're going there to take some hard knocks and learn from them.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by stevelinton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't know if it's particularly the Chinese, but there are serious proposals to site major telescopes at Dome A in the not-so-far future. Thin, still cold dry air makes for excellent seeing in the visible and IR and the cold is a positive advantage for IR work, since it reduces thermal IR in the environment.

      It's not the world's easiest spot to ship to (no FedEx service, even) or build at, but it's cheaper than the South pole of the moon, or Earth-Sun L2, which are suggested alternatives.

    2. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but even if they do accomplish making it hospitable, it'll still be on a 1/5th size scale to what us westerners would need......

      Cause they're small..... ... and we're fat....

    3. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by cjsnell · · Score: 1, Funny

      The Chinese aren't going there as a big PR exercise. If you haven't noticed, the Chinese aren't big on grand, meaningless showboating

      They aren't big on big on grand, meaningless showboating, huh?

      (Yes, those are people back there)

    4. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by nobbin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not actually sure if the chinese are into showboating or not, but it seems to me that the massive military parades are propaganda for the local people, rather than the world-media show boating the parent was refering to.

    5. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also because the greater one's presence in Antartica, the stronger one's claim to territory if the Antartic treaty falls to bits and there is a free for all resource boom in Antartica.

    6. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obviously not meaningless. The Bush administration hasn't lumped them into the "axis of evil", even though it's also rumored that China has been protecting Bin Laden.

    7. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by jokumuu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, given that they go in middle of local summer, I do indeed see this as more of PR stunt than actual try to do much scientific. If they went in middle of the local winter on the other hand...

    8. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by SagSaw · · Score: 1

      If they went in middle of the local winter on the other hand...

      They are going there to set-up a robotic weather station that will record and transmit weather data for up to 5 years. Why send a team in the middle of winter to do what can be done much more easily and safely in the middle of summer?

      --
      Come test your mettle in the world of Alter Aeon!
    9. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by kabocox · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it's particularly the Chinese, but there are serious proposals to site major telescopes at Dome A in the not-so-far future. Thin, still cold dry air makes for excellent seeing in the visible and IR and the cold is a positive advantage for IR work, since it reduces thermal IR in the environment.

      It's not the world's easiest spot to ship to (no FedEx service, even) or build at, but it's cheaper than the South pole of the moon, or Earth-Sun L2, which are suggested alternatives.

      Talk about the absolute worst research place. Could you imagine being assigned out there for a few years?

    10. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      If you haven't noticed, the Chinese aren't big on grand, meaningless showboating: they do what they do because it furthers their long-term objectives, not because it wins them short-term positive press coverage.

      I didn't notice. They are as big on grand, meaningless showboating as much as everyone else. Be careful about over-generalizing about any group of people, especially when it's a group of one billion!

    11. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Jason+Hood · · Score: 1

      The Chinese are huge on short term PR. They are constantly trying to prove national superiority to their people to keep them motivated.

      -Olympics (how did they get that again?)
      -Mid-Air Collision (remember that, a plane with 5 times the mass swerved and hit a small fighter on purpose)
      -Taiwan (How often do they publish military statistics in the Taiwan media?)
      -Controlled Media (Go read chinese news sites, its all about national pride)

      Just to name a few...

      You are either incredibly stoopid or a troll. I hope its the latter but I fear its the former.

      --
      Are you intolerant of intolerant people?
    12. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there really anything to be learned from this that hasn't been learned from countless other antartic and siberian stations? Face it, it is just an excuse to do something dramatic.

    13. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Idarubicin · · Score: 1
      Thin, still cold dry air makes for excellent seeing in the visible and IR and the cold is a positive advantage for IR work, since it reduces thermal IR in the environment.

      The other neat benefit is that it's dark for almost half the year, instead of just a handful of hours each night. You could track a star around and around for days or weeks.

      On the other hand, I imagine that they have really crappy weather sometimes. Mauna Kea has something like 325 clear nights each year, and the temperature at worst never drops below about ten below (Celsius). I fear that the weather at an Antarctic station is likely to be somewhat more hostile....

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    14. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 0, Troll

      Sorry, youare calling me "stoopid"? Isn't that a bit like Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft calling Karl Marx a fascist?

      Reread my post (assuming that you actually did read it the first time): see that bit where it says "they do what they do because it furthers their long-term objectives, not because it wins them short-term positive press coverage"? I know that there are some words there longer than two syllables long, but do you really need me to explain what that means as if you're a five-year-old?

      Pay particular attention (sorry, two long words there: ask an adult if you get stuck) to the phrase "short-term positive press coverage", and especially (yep, that's another long one) the word "press".

      Now think about how much free press there is in China. (Here's a hint: next to none, if any at all.) So, when I said press I was referring to foreign press, those media that cater to people who aren't Chinese. How much "we're so much better than you and here's how" coverage do you see in your paper or on the news about what mesage China's selling today? (Here's another hint: next to none again.)

      China hosting the Olympics is more about the message that the Central Committee of the Party wants to sell to its people than it is about the message it wants to sell to anyone else. Same with just about any other story that you care to mention.

      You say that they control their media and that it's all about national pride? No shit, Sherlock. The first rule about running a dictatorship (whichever end of the political spectrum it is at) is controlling what people see, hear, read and hence think. He who controls the past controls the future. (Hey, there's a tip: go read 1984 because you might learn something valuable. In fact, go read any book, because if anyone needs to feed their mind it's obviously you.)

      The Chinese (as in the Peoples' Republic of China) "publish[es] military statistics in the Taiwan media"? Well, given as Taiwan has a free press, and a free press that's not buddy-buddy with China (PRC), I doubt your assertion that China (PRC) is the one doing the publishing, or even that the free press is acting in a Quisling-like fashion and printing every last word that China wants to see printed.

      Of course, I've no doubt that when China carries out a major military exercise in the Formosa Strait or tests a new missile system that the free press in Taiwan don't have too many more pressing news stories to cover, but there's a difference between reporting a potential threat and churning out propaganda for the other team, which is what you're suggesting.

      And, beyond a few words, I won't even start to waste my time explaining what "short-term" means. Suffice to say that we in the West live in a 24-hour news cycle, where yesterday's news is forgotten almost as soon as it rolls off the presses, whereas in China, much like in any dictatorial society, the same underlying message is sold to the masses again and again and again, day after day after day...

      But, hey, thanks for dropping by and producing such a lucid, well-thought out argument. Repeat after me: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    15. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by fbg111 · · Score: 1

      If you haven't noticed, the Chinese aren't big on grand, meaningless showboating: they do what they do because it furthers their long-term objectives, not because it wins them short-term positive press coverage.

      On the contrary, the Chinese are all about face - gaining it and not losing it. If they perceive a "grand, meaningless showboating" endeavor as something that gains them face, they'll more than likely go for it.

      --
      Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
    16. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by Jason+Hood · · Score: 1

      Thank you for proving my point.

      Have a nice day =)

      --
      Are you intolerant of intolerant people?
    17. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by stevelinton · · Score: 1
      On the other hand, I imagine that they have really crappy weather sometimes. Mauna Kea has something like 325 clear nights each year, and the temperature at worst never drops below about ten below (Celsius). I fear that the weather at an Antarctic station is likely to be somewhat more hostile....


      Apart from being a bit chilly, the weather at night on top of the domes of the Antarctic plateau is surprisingly clement. The air is almost totally dry and very still. Recent measurements on dome C revealed the best seeing ever recorded on the surface of the Earth.
    18. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by sean.geek.nz · · Score: 1

      Thin 'still' air? Doesn't the Antarctic plateau suffer from 200 mph+ winds? Sean

    19. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      I didn't prove your point. I proved what a ignorant prat you are.

      China producing propaganda material with a consistent message and China jumping up and down saying "look at me, look at me!" aren't the same thing. The assumption that you seem to have made that the two are one and the same is just one area where you just don't get it.

      Again, because you're quite clearly backward, I'll repeat the salient part of my original post that you just don't seem to be able to get through your thick skull. I'll even put some words that you need to look up in the dictionary in bold:

      "The Chinese aren't going there as a big PR exercise. If you haven't noticed, the Chinese aren't big on grand, meaningless showboating: they do what they do because it furthers their long-term objectives, not because it wins them short-term positive press coverage."

      In other words, thicko, they didn't set off to go to Dome A just so they could boast about it this week before they move onto something else to boast about next week. They did it because it gets them one step closer to achieving their long-term goals, whatever they may ultimately be.

      Now, with that said, you can get back to your life of "stoopidity".

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    20. Re:This voyage isn't a joke, it's serious stuff... by stevelinton · · Score: 1

      Not on the top of the domes at night. The main winds at night away from the sea are what is called "katabatic" winds -- the surface is cooled by radiation and cools a layer of air, which then flows downhill becoming denser but (since it's hugging a cold surface) staying cold. At the top of a dome, this can't happen.

  19. They are?! by Shonufftheshogun · · Score: 1, Redundant
    "Chinese Team Heading for Coldest Spot on Earth"

    I didn't know that my ex-wife's heart could be reached by men.
  20. Coldest place on earth? by strider44 · · Score: 3, Funny

    To an Australian living in Sydney, Fremantle is the coldest place on earth!

    1. Re:Coldest place on earth? by nobbin · · Score: 1

      huh? Fremantle is a suburb of Perth, where I live, and I believe it has a higher average temperature than Sydney.

    2. Re:Coldest place on earth? by torpor · · Score: 2

      To an Australian living in Germany (who has also lived in Sydney) and is from Perth, Fremantle is the .. umm ... ah, forget it.

      Freo is good for a night out, thats about all. Too many American sailors.

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
  21. Oh, really? by sssmashy · · Score: 1

    It is thought to be the coldest place on earth

    Apparently those Chinese researchers have never visited Edmonton in January.

    1. Re:Oh, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah hah, I'm from Edomonton and that was my first thought.
      Thankfully I don't live there anymore. I distinctly remember -60C with wind chill occurring during more than one winter.

    2. Re:Oh, really? by lyedee · · Score: 0

      You at least have landscape and buildings in the way to block the wind. South-east Saskatchewan has a whole lot of nothing in the way.

    3. Re:Oh, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      South-east Saskatchewan is also further south that Edmonton :P

  22. Something to warm you up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'll arrive before longhorn ships...

  23. Air-Drop easier? by BrianGa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Couldn't they just air-drop the monitoring equipment? Parachutes, the whole nine yards. Almost like they do/did with the Mars rovers.

    1. Re:Air-Drop easier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Of course that would be smarter, cheaper, easier, faster and more efficient.

      But then how would you get a video of a couple of Chinese, praising their communist leaders while standing next to their flag, at one of the most coldest places on Earth?

    2. Re:Air-Drop easier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Silly, parachutes don't work when they're upside down!

    3. Re:Air-Drop easier? by lachlan76 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because then it would slide down the mountain.

    4. Re:Air-Drop easier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      What we need to do is get there first, establish a secret base there and be there when they show up. Maybe offer em a cup of hot chocolate or something.

    5. Re:Air-Drop easier? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You better make sure you don't have one in place already, given the fact that you have circa 1000 military bases all over the world.

  24. Talking of Chinese explorers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What happened to the Mount Baigong expedition some years ago? Nothing was heard from them.

    http://www.sciforums.com/archive/index.php/t-858 6

  25. Re:FUCK ALL FAGS by strider44 · · Score: 0

    No, I think that he's the member that they left at Fremantle. Poor guy, the freezing breezes even in summer must be killing him.

  26. Screw that by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Funny

    if they can survive 3 weeks in Jersey they can take anything else the Universe can dish out.

    What, this far into the thread and you weren't expecting cracks about Jersey?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Screw that by wagemonkey · · Score: 1
      if they can survive 3 weeks in Jersey they can take anything else the Universe can dish out.
      What's wrong with the channel islands other than you have to be stinking rich (or born there) to live there? It'd be nice not to pay much in the way of taxes.
      <\deadpan>
  27. the same story few weeks ago by helfen · · Score: 3, Informative
  28. Rose! by valmont · · Score: 1

    <jack> yy..yooouu..mm..mmmuust promise me ...yy..you'll never ..ll.lllet go ...

    <rose> i'll never let go jack!

    *cue music*

  29. Slashdotttttted by Piranhaa · · Score: 1

    "In other news, apart from future thoughts about the ribbon breaking, the team was unaware of the slashdot-effect soon to come!"

  30. They're going to visit a lab in Finland? by bitingduck · · Score: 4, Informative

    The coldest spot on earth is in a laboratory in Finland:

    http://boojum.hut.fi/Low-Temp-Record.html

    Dome A is the coldest naturally occuring spot.

    1. Re:They're going to visit a lab in Finland? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whats with you guys? Seriously... I mean, americans are nationalist zealots but i seem to be seeing an aful lot of "Finland, Finland, Finland" everywhere. When comparing to their relative size in this world, its like some kind of sick joke.

    2. Re:They're going to visit a lab in Finland? by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      I'm actually an american, living in Los Angeles, but I'm a low temperature physicist, and we occasionally like to point out that we can achieve temperatures substantially lower than you can find in nature.

      If you really want to see Finns in action, check out a wargame forum...

    3. Re:They're going to visit a lab in Finland? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, or give him a bottle of vodka.

      - a finn.

  31. suprised US hasn't already done this. by Kiyooka · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not trolling, I'm Chinese. Usually the US is fanatical about data-gathering. Thought hottest/coldest places on earth were visited and studied long ago.

    Guess despite for all our telecommunications, earth's still pretty damn big.

    1. Re:suprised US hasn't already done this. by eclectro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not trolling, I'm Chinese. Usually the US is fanatical about data-gathering. Thought hottest/coldest places on earth were visited and studied long ago.

      We were fanatical about data gathering, but we are unable to afford to do so anymore. Part of the reason is that your country exports large quantities of consumer goods to us through the giant U.S. retailer known as Wal-Mart and increasing our already huge trade deficit. This is also depressing our local economies and putting local companies out of business as they can not compete with your workers that work for $.50 an hour. Subsequently there is less taxes paid to the federal government. So critical areas such as government research (esp. in the area of "pure research") and grants to college students suffer (as does the ability of of middle income families to fund college educations).

      Thus, you have less people who can go to college. If they do they are less likely to study things like "geophysics" and more likely "law," as we know that the only thing left on this planet after we kill the enviroment with our large SUVs will be cockroaches and lawyers. Those that cannot go to college or unemployed geophyicists are currently finding employment at Wal-Mart if they are lucky. However, this is not a living wage here and many of us are having difficulties with it.

      While the Bush tax-cut was helpful in that the $125 provided for a muffler repair and a trip to the movies, sadly it is not enough. The crushing force of the twin deficits will continue to devalue the dollar, and we will increasingly be unable to buy stuff, even if it comes from the hands of your fine workers there in China.

      As this last election has shown, nothing is going to change for the foreseeable future. The closest that we are going to get to establishing new arctic/antarctic research is to watch reruns of Ice Station Zebra. So my friend in China, encourage science and space exploration there, as we can no longer afford it here.

      Also, please stop using so much raw material. It really is driving up prices and inflation badly here.

      I'm sorry if my little personal note offends other slashdotters who might mod me down, but I thought this issue needed addressing.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    2. Re:suprised US hasn't already done this. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. I am surprised that we have not done it. It also makes sense to try and survive there. It makes a good stopping point to living on Mars or the Moon.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  32. This the same China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is the same China that's been saber rattling in Asia the past couple of weeks? The one that's been sending submarines into Japanese waters? The one that's been warning Japan of "dire consequences" if Japan does not stop threatening China (umm.. And I thought the North Koreans were paranoid)?

    Despite whatever they may do down there in Antarctica, their actions in the geopolitical sphere where things actually matter are not so friendly and come very close to antagonizing and aggravating an already tepid friendship with it and its neighbors. China is a bully and has been doing a little more bullying lately as the US thins its troops out in order to send more people to Iraq to quell the violence there.

    Obviously we can't blame the actions of their government on these scientists, but as a nation of peace-loving citizens, it does not make sense that the Australian government would be expending money and energy to help the Chinese in their scientific advance.

    1. Re:This the same China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, didn't the US recently invade Iraq for very questionable reasons? The "Weapons of Mass Destruction" were never found. At least 10,000 Iraqi civilians have died as a direct result of the invasion. We have used cluster bombs and depleted uranium, real weapons of mass destruction which are internationally banned. I am an American, but I am afraid that we have become the bullies, and most of the world sees it that way.

    2. Re:This the same China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The relationship between China and Japan is a historical issue. Go and read some books before you splash your comments here. The more you know the past, the more you understand the present.

      The bottom line, The Chinese had never initiate any invasion on any other country for whatever reason in modern history. Sometimes he just have to do something to show he's not a coward, and you call that bully?

      Seriously, I'm a Chinese.

    3. Re:This the same China? by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      China is a bully

      And the US isn't ?!?

    4. Re:This the same China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought you were talking about USA in this post,
      jerk

  33. Re:My experiences in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's A LOT of BS lies you told! Amazing!

  34. Last Log Entry by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Dear diar..r..r..r..ry I am fucking cold and sh..sh..shivering my a

  35. Old anecdotal story but a good one... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 3, Funny

    An exam question on Momentum, Heat and Mass transfer: Is hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Justify your argument.

    Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant.

    One student however wrote the following:

    First, we must postulate that if souls exist they must have mass. If they do then a mole of soles can have mass. So at what rate are souls entering Hell and at what rate are they leaving?

    Making the assumptions that once in Hell a soul cannot leave. Therefore no souls are leaving.

    To determine how many are entering we must look at the different religions.

    Some religions state that if you are not a member of their religion you will go to Hell.

    Because there is more than one religion that states this and no one is a member of one of more religion we can postulate that all people, and therefore all souls, go to Hell.

    With birth and death rates as they are we can assume that the number of souls in Hell are increasing exponentially.

    Now look at the rate of change of volume in hell.

    Boyle's law states that in order for the temperature and pressure to say the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant.

    Case 1: If Hell is expanding at a rate slower than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell lets loose.

    Case 2: If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature ad pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

    So which is it?

    If we accept the postulate by Theresa Banyan during my first year " it will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you" and taking into account I have not had sexual relations with her, Case 2 cannot be correct.

    Thus Hell is exothermic- QED!

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:Old anecdotal story but a good one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the fact that you thought about this scares me to no end ...

      And Hell isn't ... It's just really humid.

    2. Re:Old anecdotal story but a good one... by Haydn+Fenton · · Score: 1

      Hm.. not quite QED, assuming religion is right, hell exists or whatever - going on fact rather than opinion (we can't prove hell either exists or doesn't exist), we do however, know that photons exist, and photons have no mass. Sorry to reign in on your parrade, but I'm a slashdotter.
      And yeah, I'm a real blast at parties.

    3. Re:Old anecdotal story but a good one... by phyruxus · · Score: 1
      that reminds me of the story about the kid taking his final..

      The prof signals that there's 5 minutes left to hand in the test... kids turn in papers and leave.. 2 minutes left.. more kids leaving, 1 minute, there's one kid left working. The prof says, "Time's up!"

      The kid goes up to his desk with his exam, and goes to put it on the pile, but the prof stops him. "Sorry, you went over the time limit, I can't accept your exam."

      The kid asks the prof, "Do you know who I am?" The prof shakes his head 'no'. The kid asks again, "Do You Know Who I Am??" And the prof replies, "No, and I don't care." And the kid says "Good", and stuffs his paper in the middle of the stack.

      :)

      --
      "A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
      "d'Oh!" ~Homer
  36. Re:My experiences in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm an American businessman in the import- export business, so as you might guess, my frequent travels take me to many places around the world, on every continent. Anyhow, I wanted to share my experience in the "great" country of China.

    Just to get it out of the way, I'm an American businessman too, that lives and works mainly in Tokyo Japan. I too travel all around the world, but so far business hasn't taken me to Antarctica yet. (Every continent, eh?) That said...

    Anyways, when I stepped off the train from Hong Kong (which was no paradise itself, as that place has gone down the shitter since the Brits left) I was shocked. The whole place smelled like a combination of vomit and dog shit that had been left out in the sun for a day or so.

    Reminds me of NYC. ;-)

    And it was probably BECAUSE there was vomit and dog shit all over.

    Yep, bingo, NYC! (Well, it's more vomit and urine, and less dog shit...)

    People spit everywhere. Trash litters the streets. I found myself looking DOWNWARD much more than looking FORWARD when I walked.

    Chill out, it's a cultural thing. If you're not used to it, the spitting can gross you out, but there are plenty of other things that we do that would gross out alot of other people. For example, not using a specialized tongue cleaner every day sorta grosses out the Indians. Using PAPER to wipe our asses is considered incredibly unhygenic (and in a sense it is) as far as most people in the middle east and asia are concerned. On the other hand, the thought of wiping our asses with water, USING OUR HANDS, grosses us out equally.

    It doesn't help that their infernal language consists of abrupt rapid fire tones that is a cacophony for any human ear to bear. How do they speak and listen to that shit without going crazy all day long is beyond me.

    If that's what you have to say about Chinese, you don't want to know what most people think of Yankee, Aussie and Kiwi English. :-P

    Anyways, Chinamen stink -- literally. There is no concept of personal hygiene whatsoever. Meetings with even top officials were hourlong sessions of having to endure hot sweaty bodies and rancid breath eminating from mouths missing a few teeth. Geez, at least use deodorant for crying out loud.

    Americans stink too. It's not that rare that you'll run into a white american manager that apparently has never heard of deoderant. Soggy, dark sweat stains under their pits. I know many Chinese, and just like us Americans, there are dirty ones and clean ones, and nationality seems to have little to do with it. That said, Europeans have a much higher rate of having really bad BO, than Asians. Even with the deoderant, the Japanese seem to be able to pick up this scent, and will gag and puke behind your back. Again, this is all relative.

    The hypocrisy, corruption, and double-standards from the highest levels of government on over are the norm at the same time China opens up to the world. Foreigners get charged as much as five times for transportation, lodging, food, and everything else.

    Okay, I have to agree with this. There are a lot of back-stabbing double-standard corrupt "high" officials in China. This certainly has room for improvement. However, it's not that unusual in developing countries. Ever been to Indonesia?

    Traffic is horrible. Rules are non-existent except for at traffic lights: red means to go fast, green means to go REALLY REALLY fast.

    Ever been to Rome? ;-)

    The Chinese people themselve are pretty apathetic and everyone just wants to get out of that hell hole, so you see smuggling rings shipping people out hidden in truck beds and ships, all too often with tragic results.

    As far as the apathy, I wouldn't count out our own country. I guess we don't have people smuggling themselves accross the border to Canada though. Yet.

    The who

  37. Grrr! Sorry about the formatting... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

    Note to self (and tip for others): in future, don't try to close a bold tag with an italic one. That shit ain't ever gonna work.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  38. Why travel on foot? by Doomsdaisy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm no aviator, so I don't know why the team has to slog it there on foot. Why can't they simply drop in with a helicopter? I'm sure there's a simple reason I'm overlooking.

    --
    These are breasts; this is source code.
    Why do you have a problem with those two things belonging to one person?
    1. Re:Why travel on foot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would guess the part being overlooked is that it wouldn't be as interesting if they either used a helicopter or even better, shoot it over on a missle. I figure it the equiment were padded well enough, they could fire it off on a rocket that would embed itself in the ground and peel its sides off. No human intervention required.

      Of course, sending a group of people to place it there and risking their lives in the process is definately more news worthy

    2. Re:Why travel on foot? by addie · · Score: 1

      I think the simple answer is ice buildup on wings, or rotor blades, making it extremely dangerous to fly (if not impossible).

    3. Re:Why travel on foot? by phallstrom · · Score: 1

      Not that I know anything about helicopters, but I have ridden in one so...

      I would guess it has something to do with the thin air down there being a problem for the helicopters to generate enough lift to get off the ground. A couple of google links seem to suggest this, but none were definitive...

    4. Re:Why travel on foot? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      That is the simple answer, but also the incorrect one.
      Jets fly through temperatures this cold daily. The standard adiabatic rate for temperature is 3.8degrees per 1000ft. That is at 30Kft (a typical commercial flight altitude), the temperature is 120degrees lower than it is on the ground.

      Icing conditions only occur within a fairly narrow temperature range, with both a minimum and maximum temp. The H20 has to be liquid when it hits the wing, else it won't stick. After you go below the minimun, you're hitting snow or hail, each of which has it's own set of problems.

      Airliners fly through icing conditions all the time in order to keep the Christmas flight schedule going. Icing is a major problem for scheduled flights, but not insurmountable, and there are multiple techniques to combat it. The US Air Force even has special built airplanes for flying in severly cold weather that fly winter missions to the artic on a regular basis (Soviet monitoring stations).

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    5. Re:Why travel on foot? by TheWizardOfCheese · · Score: 1

      Why can't they simply drop in with a helicopter?

      No helicopter has the required performance (range + service ceiling + payload capacity.) Range is the biggest problem. You might think they could do this in stages, but the antarctic environment makes a chain of helicopter bases impractical. For reference, the Canadian army uses old-fashioned bolt-action rifles in the (much warmer) arctic because semi-automatic weapons are unreliable in that environment.

      --

      "The good reader is a rarer swan than the good writer."
    6. Re:Why travel on foot? by peteMG · · Score: 1
      For reference, the Canadian army uses old-fashioned bolt-action rifles in the (much warmer) arctic because semi-automatic weapons are unreliable in that environment.
      To fight off ... who?
    7. Re:Why travel on foot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Polar Bears, seriously if you're manning or repairing a early warning radar in the artic circle and a polar bear shows up you'll want something to fight it off that won't jam up on the first shot.

    8. Re:Why travel on foot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those polar bears are nasty, man!

  39. No cooling needed! by nilbog · · Score: 1, Funny

    oh man I bet you could overclock like crazy down there!

    --
    or else!
    1. Re:No cooling needed! by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

      Was just thinking that myself :)

      "We have Pentium 90 running at 2GHz"

      Maybe they can put some mp3s on the computer, I'd like to see the RIAA tackle that one :)

  40. Webcam of the Trek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently, they're actually going to have a satellite transmitted webcam of their journey, at least so claims this Yahoo article.

  41. Battery....lasts 20 years?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read the article, the original weather station is still running after 20 years, and will continue until its battery runs out. What battery works in -70 degrees celcius and lasts for 20 years? And where can I buy one?

  42. Here's a clue by serps · · Score: 4, Informative

    There's a Free Trade Agreement in the pipeline.

    --
    "Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
    1. Re:Here's a clue by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      Hey cool, I thought you were talking about the aus/us fta, for which i was preparing a joke about. as it is, carry on... something worthwhile might come of this one.

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
  43. How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by DAldredge · · Score: 5, Informative

    It appears that it takes liquid CO2 to make dry ice.

    From a google search.

    Basically, dry ice is frozen carbon dioxide (CO2). CO2 is usually found as a gas -- it's what we exhale. To make dry ice, CO2 is compressed, and it liquefies at a pressure of approximately 870 pounds per square inch. The dry ice press then reduces the pressure, and part of the liquid CO2 sublimates (meaning it turns from a solid into a gas). The remaining liquid freezes into flakes that are compacted into solid blocks. The resulting dry ice is denser, heavier, and colder than ice made from water.

    Here is a link to a machine that can make a block of dry ice in 60 seconds with just a liquid CO2 cylinder, and it costs less than 600 USD.

    http://www.amer-rest-equip.com/usare_polfo_dry_ice _makers.html

    1. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 0

      870psi!!! Thats scares me, because... When I was a bit younger (not too much mind) I used to put dry ice into plastic coke bottles and agitate them until the CO2 became a liquid.. so that was some intense PSI'age in those coke bottles. I guess its hardly surprising that one exploded in my hand once (with water in there too as a temperature accelerant )and broke my thumb :)

    2. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A coke bottle will not support 870 psi. No way, no how. An 40S 2.5 inch (about the size of a coke can) carbon steel pipe that has a thickness of 12 mm is only rated for 533 psig. Your coke can doesn't have a 12 mm temperature treated carbon steel pipe wall. You were definately not making liquid CO2 in that coke can.

    3. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 0

      ok, so what liquid was the pure dry ice (and a tiny amount of air) turning into, and where did the CO2 go? Dude, it was liquid CO2.. there is no question of that. Explain to me an alternative...

    4. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by datan · · Score: 1

      could water vapour in the bottle have condensed? the CO2 would have sublimed into gas

    5. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 0

      I dont think the small amount of water vapour in the air is gonna turn to half a bottle of water.. That would be very clever science indeed. Also, when you release the lid of the bottle full of the "liquid", it turns back into dry ice. If the CO2 had sublimed, the gas would have escaped when I removed the lid and there would have been no CO2 in there so no dry ice. If the liquid was water, it wouldnt turn into dry ice when releasing the pressure (duh).

    6. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "Dude, it was liquid CO2.. there is no question of that."

      There is a valid question of your results because they contradict scientific experiments. The triple point of CO2 is -57 C at 5 atm. For dry ice to form the temperature must be -80 C. By shaking it around you may have warmed it up, subliming some CO2 and increasing the pressure. Since 5 atm (absolute) is about 60 psi (gauge pressure), its unlikely that your bottle could have supported that much pressure. Your bottle probably could not support 20 psi (which would be equivalent to a force on the cap of about 15 lbs--You can test this, hold a bottle upside down, drill a hole in the cap and attach a 15 lb barbell. See if it holds). You most likely saw water condensation (from the air in the bottle) or melting (from water that was part of the dry ice).

    7. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Charles' law states that P1/T1 = P2/T2. Once you released the pressure, your pressure in the bottle drops. This causes the gas temperature in the bottle to drop, which would easily freeze water. If your dry ice was a mixture of water and CO2, then the CO2 increased the pressure as you shook it up, and some water melted. Once you opened the lid, the CO2 escaped, the pressure dropped, and the water froze. Try the experiment again after you release the CO2, and you shouldn't freeze the water again (or increase the pressure in the bottle) when you shake it.

    8. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 0

      OK...

      0.5l coke bottle...
      Half fill it with pure dry ice pellets
      Agitate.
      For a while, yes, the CO2 sublimes.
      After an inexact amount of time (dependent upon how quickly you heated it), the pressure gets to a level where the CO2 begins to melt rather than sublime.
      The CO2 keeps melting until you have a coke bottle half full of a "liquid" (still VERY cold). At this point it is near impossible to deform the walls of the bottle as the pressure is so high (on the one that went in my hand, the 'ribs' of the 0.5l coke bottle had all but gone as it was stretched out from the pressure.. just prior to exploding as I threw it from my hand)
      IF you slowly (or quickly lol) release the pressure on the cap, that liquid turns back into dry ice. How can the liquid have been anything other than CO2? Water cannot turn to dry ice.

    9. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 0

      If I released the pressure, and made dry ice from the liquid, then started again, the same happens. The dry ice, again, turns to liquid CO2 and goes back to dry ice again when you release the pressure again. Also, how would you account for the small amount of water vapour in the air turning into half a coke bottle of full frozen water ice? The dry ice is pure, if you leave it to sublime in the coke bottle with no lid on, there is no water residue.

    10. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I wonder if teh bottles and caps from my youth could withstand that ? I suspect that they could. I remember taking the caps off and it was a lot of work.

    11. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You were definately not making liquid CO2 in that coke can."

      The GP didn't write coke can; he/she wrote plastic coke bottle. That written, I don't think that a plastic coke bottle would do that well either against that sort of pressure. The type of plastic used in soft-drink bottles has amazing tensile strength, but not 870 PSI worth. At the very least, such pressure would probably pop the cap off the bottle (the cap has about 1 sq inch area, meaning that about 855 pounds is pushing on it (870 PSI internal pressure - 15 PSI atmospheric pressure)).

    12. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 0

      From direct experience, the bottle tops and necks are the only bit that actually survive the explosion (yes, we did this many, many times).

      The reason I posted in the first place was due to my surprise of the pressure required for liquid CO2 being so high. I never imagined it could get up near the 870 mark. Maybe they hadnt gotten all the way to that pressure when they explode. Maybe the pressure required is much less when the temperature is down at -50+ or whatever it would have been (this seems likely).

      It was painfully obvious at the time, however, that the pressure was pretty damned high.

      I had a google to see if anyone has tested the exploding pressure of various plastic bottles but couldnt find anything.. Would be interesting...

    13. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I just tried a little office physics to see how strong these caps are...

      take a small flat non-deformable round thing....
      r = 0.5cm

      Area = pi*r*r
      = pi * 0.25
      =0.785 square cm

      I weigh 75 KG which converts(google)to approx 165lb
      165lb spread over 0.785square cm
      =210lb/square cm

      Convert(google) square cm to square inches

      =210lb/0.155sq in
      =1354lb/sq in

      1354 psi

      So if I stand on a 1cm* diameter 'thing' I am exerting 1354 psi on whatever is underneath it, which is, in this case a bonaqua bottle top very similar to the bottletops I used before. Its not deforming much at all, just a slight indentation where the small object was touching it.

      OK, the direction I am pressing on it is opposite to the direction the gas would be pushing on it, but I doubt that would make much difference, stronger in the correct direction if anything...

      * the thing I was standing on is actually much smaller than 1 square cm... So the pressure would be higher...

    14. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by tom17 · · Score: 0

      Found some water rocket hobbyist sites... They use PET bottles too...

      This guy has modified 2 bottles, back to back, thus introducing weaknesses in the structural integrity of them...

      "My rockets repeatedly withstand 140 psi of air pressure!"

      http://www.outsideconnection.com/rockets/default.h tm

    15. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 1

      In the Army hopsital lab where I used to work, we had a cylinder of CO2 with a cone (like on a CO2 fire extinguisher) attached to the regulator. When a small quantity of dry ice was needed for flash freezing cytology samples, the operator would don a heavy duty glove and hold a canvas bag over the cone while opening the regulator.

      It made a tremendous amount of noise, but you ended up with a bag full of dry ice snow flakes.

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
    16. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by BLAG-blast · · Score: 1
      There is a valid question of your results because they contradict scientific experiments. The triple point of CO2 is -57 C at 5 atm. For dry ice to form the temperature must be -80 C. By shaking it around you may have warmed it up, subliming some CO2 and increasing the pressure. Since 5 atm (absolute) is about 60 psi (gauge pressure), its unlikely that your bottle could have supported that much pressure. Your bottle probably could not support 20 psi (which would be equivalent to a force on the cap of about 15 lbs-

      I'm not really been able to accurate identify the vessel the original experiment claims to have used. But I do know that a 1liter plastic coke or soda bottle can be pressurized up to over 100psi without any milkyness or crazing of the plastic.

      -You can test this, hold a bottle upside down, drill a hole in the cap and attach a 15 lb barbell. See if it holds). You most likely saw water condensation (from the air in the bottle) or melting (from water that was part of the dry ice).

      This experiment doesn't demostrate anything to do with internal pressure. The main factor of interest is whether a soda bottle could hold over 60psi of internal pressure, your experiment would be testing external pressure. There are different forces and physics coming into play with external verse internal pressure. The vessel skin in under compressing force with external pressure. With internal pressure it is under a tension force.

      So, assuming your figure of 60psi is correct, I believe the original poster did in fact have liquid CO2 in his bottle. If it is really 780psi for liquification of C02, then it was most likely water condensation.

      --
      M0571y H@rml355.
    17. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It appears that it takes liquid CO2 to make dry ice."

      No, it absolutely does not require liquid C02.

      All that is required is exposing C02 in any form to the appropriate temperature and pressure. What you found was a manufacturing method to produce dry ice inexpensively. Using a com/decompression cycle on the C02 directly is cheaper than maintaining a freezer at -80C, since that would require very similar equipment with an extra step.

      So, yes, dry ice will collect out of the atmosphere on a coldplate at -90C. Just don't expect to produce large quantities quickly with this method.

    18. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's spelled definitely. The slashdot crowd keeps misspelling it with an 'a'. There's no 'a' in the word.

    19. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by sydres · · Score: 1

      Infact in H.S chem class we would commonly increase the pressure in plastic coke bottles all the way up to 120 psi using a air pump and they always held just fine

    20. Re:How to make Dry Ice - It appears... by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

      I belive a carbonated beverage container is rated for 120psi, but rated is not the same as the pressure it actually bursts at. Still, i don't see one going to 870 psi.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
  44. The excitement... by benow · · Score: 1

    Cold? Yep, still cold.
    Cold? Yep, still cold.
    :

  45. Re:Summary error by imsabbel · · Score: 1

    imagine a non polar coordinate system. then you will get it :)

    --
    HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
  46. Not an issue by tanveer1979 · · Score: 4, Informative

    They are going there in Early 2005, and that peak summer in antartica. So temparatures will not be dropping below -50C. :)

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
    1. Re:Not an issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two wrongs make a right unless they're both imaginary. Then its still wrong.

    2. Re:Not an issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So no different than you're average Winnipeg winter day then

  47. Who's first thought was... by hokanomono · · Score: 1

    Do they want to build their beowolf cluster there for better cooling?

    --
    This sig is a true statement, but I cannot prove it.
  48. Dome A = Bad News by Barkmullz · · Score: 1

    So, they call it Dome A now, eh? Well, I guess that is a more comforting name than the Mountains of Madness.

    I do not think we will see them again...

    Dangit, them rats somehow got back in the walls again. This time I will...<NO CARRIER>

    --
    Ronald said nothing. He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse, and rode madly off in all directions.
  49. Finally! by p0 · · Score: 1

    I am going to have Chinese in my freezer!

    --
    This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... woah! You keep your food in the Antartic?

    2. Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scary, care to elaborate? Food? The language? or... people??

  50. They should come into our living room by tod_miller · · Score: 1

    The stare my girlfriend gave me when I realise I didn't take my shoes off and almost stepped on the new rugs actually caused apartments 3 floors up to have burst pipes.

    Now that is cold.

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
    1. Re:They should come into our living room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we see who 0wn3s you at home...

      how does that skirt feel? get used to the draft?

  51. Why the fuck was the parent modded funny? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Christ, there are some dumb fucks modding on Slashdot nowadays.

    Yes, yes..."You must be new here."

    Hurhurhur...you so funny...

    1. Re:Why the fuck was the parent modded funny? by strider44 · · Score: 1

      *shrug* just because you didn't get the joke doesn't mean I care what you think (or even what the moderators think).

      Frankly I agree with you - I only posted it to make me laugh, and that was all that mattered. If other people don't laugh then it shouldn't be moderated up, and frankly I don't give a flying f*** what other people think of that one! I think only a sydneysider would even give a mild chuckle, as the joke was aimed at us (or an even narrower subset of sydneysiders).

  52. Almost like US of A by notany · · Score: 1

    Heh, atleast China is not country full of ultra religious bushlims and muslims. It's more confy to deal with good old pover hungry nations.

    What really scares me is this big nuke owning contry whose rulers are preparing for second coming of Jesus.

    --
    Dyslexics have more fnu.
  53. Not new but something to watch by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Sure they are replication feats that we have already achieved, but its new to them. A 'Big deal, been there done that' attitude isn't the way to view this. That they are doing things like this shows that they are catching up. When a communist country that has 1/5 of the entire planets population decides it wants to be a superpower, you should pay attention.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  54. What they might actually find by germ!nation · · Score: 0

    $10 says they actually find the lost valley of the dinosaurs.

    or maybe just frostbite

  55. A waste of time and resources! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I could have put such a monitoring device in my mother-in-law's bed in a few minutes!

  56. Re:My experiences in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YHBT. YHL. HAND.

    (YES, the original China troll is at least 3-4 years old here on good ole Slashdot - and it gets people every time.)

  57. maybe.. by Suchetha · · Score: 1

    .. they're using women

    --

    learn from yesterday, plan for tomorrow, party tonight
    or one out of three ain't bad
  58. that isn't "meaningless" by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    if you happen to live in Taiwan.

  59. Can you say hypocrit by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful
    So china is flexing is muscles and telling tiny but evil nations like japan (germany gassed childeren. Japan raped or worked them to death.) that they shouldn't have any thoughts of rebuilding their army.

    Germany also doesn't deny their warcrimes unlike japan.

    The chinese have plenty of reason to threathen japan. If they send a nuke or two over then it is just delayed justice and really no different then America invading Iraq.

    No if you want to blame china for anything do it for their actions in Tibet. That is nasty enough for anyone.

    If you are really serious about peace-loving nations not working together with more aggressive nations then america would be in total isolation right now. China is just saber rattling. Making sure that past war criminals do not get the idea they could do it again.

    For the near future China has a booming economy that could only be hurt by going to war. They like being the maker of everything sold in the entire world. Why risk it all with a war?

    It is roughly the same reason you hear nothing about Tibet. The western powers that be like having everything made cheap in China so China can go ahead with its own crimes as long as it doesn't do it accross its borders.

    Money is a powerfull motivator for peace but peace can only happen when you remind people that they will loose if they are not peacefull.

    America uses its fleets and the occasional invasion. China hold big parades and sends some parts of its fleet on excersises.

    So far it seems that the biggest threat to world peace is firmly in the west.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Can you say hypocrit by hopemafia · · Score: 1

      Insightful? More like flamebait....

      99.9% of the current population of Japan had nothing to do with WWII, so trying to blame them for it, or hold them responsible for it is bullshit. Your history is also a bit off...since you seem to have forgotten that Japan is the only country that has ever actually been nuked. And there were warcrimes trials after WWII in Japan, same as in Germany...and the guilty have been punished. Imperial Japan paid for its crimes long ago.

      The current nation of Japan is an upstanding world citizen, and shouldn't be compared to nations such as China, which are committing crimes against humanity as we speak.

      The past is past, we should learn its lessons and not make its mistakes again, but dwelling on it continually only gets you into clusterfucks like we have in the middle east.

      --
      If God had had a computer it would have taken him 7 months to create the earth...if he even bothered to do it at all.
    2. Re:Can you say hypocrit by ViolentGreen · · Score: 1

      Your history is also a bit off...since you seem to have forgotten that Japan is the only country that has ever actually been nuked

      Slightly off-topic, but Japan wasn't nuked. There is a difference between nulear and atomic bombs.

      --
      Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
    3. Re:Can you say hypocrit by hopemafia · · Score: 1

      "There is a difference between nulear and atomic bombs."

      Nuked is the common use term for being the victim of any fission or fusion type explosive device.

      And anyway there isn't really a difference, since a nuclear weapon is "a weapon whose destructive power derives from an uncontrolled nuclear reaction", and the atomic bombs dropped on Japan fit that description.

      However there is a difference between a "nulear" bomb and an atomic bomb...there is no such thing as a "nulear" bomb. Please, if you're going to nit-pick...at least proof read for typos.

      --
      If God had had a computer it would have taken him 7 months to create the earth...if he even bothered to do it at all.
    4. Re:Can you say hypocrit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there were warcrimes trials after WWII in Japan, same as in Germany...and the guilty have been punished. Imperial Japan paid for its crimes long ago.

      You sure none of them is in the shrine that your priminister pays visit once in a while?

    5. Re:Can you say hypocrit by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      If you are really serious about peace-loving nations not working together with more aggressive nations then america would be in total isolation right now.

      Yeah... imagine that.

      The funniest part of the pre-election debates was when Bush reminded Kerry that POLAND was in the coalition before the Iraq invasion. As John Stewart said, when Poland is third on your list after the US and UK then you have serious problems.

      If they send a nuke or two over then it is just delayed justice and really no different then America invading Iraq

      This has got to be the silliest thing I've read in a long time. No genuine notion of justice can encompass 'an eye for an eye' over a period of 60 years between the original offence and the meting out of retribution. Assuming that this kind of revenge-justice were valid (I stronly suggest to you that it is not), why should a 30 year old Japanese die for something Emperor Hirohito oversaw in 1944?

      An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind... or in this case, makes the whole world a pile of radioactive ashes.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    6. Re:Can you say hypocrit by hopemafia · · Score: 1

      Your post assumes I'm from Japan...which I'm not...never even been there. It is possible to respect a nation without being one of it's citizens.

      It's quite possible that someone who did commit a warcrime is buried at veterans shrine...in Japan or in any other country that has ever fought a war. But that fact shouldn't stop anyone from visiting those shrines to pay respect to all the others who gave their lives serving their country with honor.

      --
      If God had had a computer it would have taken him 7 months to create the earth...if he even bothered to do it at all.
  60. Map Available of Unexplored Land Areas? by totallygeek · · Score: 2
    Reading this post has made me wonder if a map exists of places humans have not recently been. Does anyone know if such a thing is out there, because I sure as heck couldn't find much via Internet searches.


    On another note, does anyone know the approximate population of Antartica? Just curious how many people are camping out at those research stations.

    1. Re:Map Available of Unexplored Land Areas? by Mortiss · · Score: 1

      Lets see if anyone can name some of them.

      If i had to guess:
      Certain Amazon Jungle and Himalayan regions.

    2. Re:Map Available of Unexplored Land Areas? by Idarubicin · · Score: 1
      Reading this post has made me wonder if a map exists of places humans have not recently been.

      Mostly those big blue areas. Until recently, I know we had explored less of the ocean floor than of the Moon; that may still be true. Either way, the deep oceans are really the least examined and least-visted areas of Earth.

      On land, this photograph will probably give you a good idea where to start looking. The places without lights are probably pretty seldom visited--mountains, deserts, and tundra.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    3. Re:Map Available of Unexplored Land Areas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Certain Amazon Jungle

      Yes and no: yes, some parts have been designed as off-limits to non-natives (ie. there are tribes that have never met european-descendant people), but then again, those areas are inhabitated by natives.

      So I guess I'd have to say no, there are no areas in there that have never been visited by humans.

  61. The helicopter freezing? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Flying in extreme cold at hight is not all that easy. It is why flying is less safe then driving. If your engine freezes on your car then it is just a nuiscance and you better unfreeze it before you freeze as well. If it freezes on your airplance/chopper then at leas you will die warm in the fireball that is soon to happen.

    Helicopters suck donkeyballs in thin air. They also guzzle fuel like their is no tomorrow. Check docu's on the artic. Ever seen a chopper in it?

    Basically the area to be travelled in is to high, to far and to cold for helicopters to operate in.

    However walking there is a proven techinique. It has worked for decades. Why develop a 1 use aircraft when you can simple hire some idiots^H^H^H^H^H^Hbrave men to haul your stuff there?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:The helicopter freezing? by adlj · · Score: 1

      > Ever seen a chopper in it? yep. it was in Carpenter's The Thing... what? it doesn't count as 'documentation'? oh, well...

    2. Re:The helicopter freezing? by jaclu · · Score: 1

      Yes I have seen choppers in the arctic.Rrussian choppers are transporting tourists to the north-pole, not exactly on a daily basis, but they do some tourist flight each year out of Hatanga.

      A friend whent there some four-five years ago.

      You can order a 3 day tour with choper for just
      10.750 EURO, that seems a bit expensive to me ;)

      They offer theese tours on:
      http://www.tour-land.ru/extr/north_p/eng/nort h_p.s html

    3. Re:The helicopter freezing? by swimin · · Score: 1

      Or at least so they only have to walk one way: Paradrop them in there.

    4. Re:The helicopter freezing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um... this is the antarctic tard, opposite end of the world, higher altitude.

  62. Old news, read about this earlier this summer... by Ingolfke · · Score: 1

    there was even a documentary about their findings. Here's a clip from the article and link for more info.

    -
    An expedition of archaeologists on Earth discover an Aztec temple hidden under the Antarctic circle, housing a host of Alien creatures. A group of five coming-of-age Predators have also come to the temple, as it has long been a training ground for their race. From there on, it's Aliens vs. Predators, with the humans caught in the middle.
    -

  63. Wouldn't it be easier by qray · · Score: 1

    to just fly over and drop in a remote weather monitoring package?

    The article states the primary objective is weather monitoring. I'd think think there would be easier methods of obtaining that data. That's not to say it isn't worth it. I would think the bigger benefit is the technology to get humans there.

  64. Re:Summary error by mbrett · · Score: 1
    Not necessarily. A local minimum may trap the cold air, so warmer air flows over the top of it and the bottom stays frosty. That's how Oymyakon (Siberia) manages to hold the title of coldest inhabited place on earth.

    So if Dome A has a wierd microclimate, that strikes me as a particularly bad place for a weather station. Or am I missing something?

  65. Coldest place on Earth? by RandoX · · Score: 2, Funny

    They obviously haven't been in our server room.

  66. Among their lab gear... by Riktov · · Score: 4, Funny

    A witch's tit, and a brass monkey's balls.

    1. Re:Among their lab gear... by Paradevil · · Score: 1

      You forgot the well digger's ass

  67. Poor spelling by wowbagger · · Score: 1

    Let's see:

    "aer burries" - the aer could be a simple transposition on the keyboard, but to get "buRRies" from "buried" is a bit of a stretch.

    The repeated misspelling of "paNNels" is also questionable.

    Given that a design engineer must be able to communicate, and thus to write, and thus to spell, I find this post questionable. The basic facts are not necessarily wrong, but the spelling is iffy at best.

    1. Re:Poor spelling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that a quick google search over aad.gov.au reveals that he's a real person. Someone would have had to dig deep to find a name to use if it's fake. Then why would they chose an Australian Antarctic Division name when it's a Chinese project?

    2. Re:Poor spelling by plog · · Score: 1
      frick, I know published poets
      who spell that badly

      especially with cold fingers

    3. Re:Poor spelling by MrSeb · · Score: 1

      Don't forget, he is Australian.

  68. The most remote place on Earth? by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Dome A is the highest point on the Antarctic Plateau, and it has never been reached by humans. It is thought to be the coldest place on earth, and is certainly among the most remote."

    "Sir, we have successfully made to the Antarctic Plateau. It is indeed the coldest place on Earth, just as we thought, but unfortunately according to my map, it is not among the most remote ones. The most remote place on Earth seems to be the Arctic Ocean."

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
  69. Why travel to the coldest place on Earth by sxmjmae · · Score: 1

    Hummm. I thought Main and Portage in Winnnipeg, Canada was the coldest place on Earth. I was just one block from Main and Portage last year when the temperature dropped to -48. Brrr that is cold when you walk 10 blocks with no hat, and a light winter jacket and dockers pants. On the radio they claimed that was the coldest place on Earth that day. So why travel that far when you can get record cold temperature near home.

    --
    My Sig indicates the end of the comment I posted.
    1. Re:Why travel to the coldest place on Earth by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Because there are more things to do in Antartica... :p

    2. Re:Why travel to the coldest place on Earth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might well have been the coldest place on that day, because midwinter in Canada corresponds to midsummer in Antarctica. The article claims that the average temperatures vary from -50 (summer) to -90 (winter), so Winnipeg doesn't even compare.

  70. ahhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    something to finely warm my bosses heart

  71. Save on heatsinks I guess by N+Monkey · · Score: 1

    to set up a robotic weather station which will monitor the local conditions for up to five years

    Day 1: Cold
    Day 2: Cold


    I suppose they won't bother with a big heatsink on the CPU then ;-)

  72. No mention of "At the Mountains of Madness"? by jvmatthe · · Score: 1

    I just skimmed the comments rated 3+ and saw no mention of H. P. Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness". It's a tale of an expedition to the Antarctic which finds a range of very high, jagged mountains. The adventurers find not only a city clinging to the peaks of these mountains but also the bodies of the former inhabitants. Unspeakable horrors are uncovered and...well, read the damn book.

    Any mention of an expedition to a previously unexplored region of Antarctica should bring up a subsequent mention of this novel. While Lovecraft's style is, undoubtedly, thick and verbose, his imagination was really quite remarkable. I found AtMoM to be a fantastic tale that actually stands up to a second reading.

    You can probably find a copy online, but I am not sure about whether it's actually in the public domain or not. I think some of this writings genuinely are in the public domain, but others aren't, so YMMV. Regardless, the books are generally cheap. You can even get an annotated version of this story, which tries to explain the background and ties it to other stories in Lovecraft's works.

    1. Re:No mention of "At the Mountains of Madness"? by Little+Brother · · Score: 1
      I just skimmed the comments rated 3+ and saw no mention of H. P. Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness

      Ah, it good to see validation of the /. moderation system.

      --

      Little Brother, watching the watchers

  73. Chinese team "At the Mountains..." by DCheesi · · Score: 1

    Hmm, what are all these strange five-sided fossils...? ;-)

  74. Coldest spot on Earth, huh? by Prod_Deity · · Score: 1

    I doubt they want to come to America & explore my bedroom.......

  75. let's not exaggerate by way2trivial · · Score: 1
    we only have about 700 currently, 1000 is the projected number for the end of this decade...

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf o/article5416.htm

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:let's not exaggerate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really hate being paranoid, but sometimes you got to deduce certain things in certain contexts; government implies authority, which in turn implies that some information regarding diverse operations of said government must be restricted to all but a select few. Case in point: do you know entirely what's going on in Fallujah at the moment? Do the grunts know? Or is it feasible to suggest that no one but the top brass knows?

      http://hnn.us/articles/3097.html/

      For Okinawa, the southernmost island of Japan, which has been an American military colony for the past fifty-eight years, the report deceptively lists only one Marine base, Camp Butler, when in fact Okinawa "hosts" ten Marine Corps bases, including Marine Corps Air Station Futenma occupying 1,186 acres in the center of that modest-sized island's second largest city. (Manhattan's Central Park, by contrast, is only 843 acres.) The Pentagon similarly fails to note all of the $5-billion-worth of military and espionage installations in Britain, which have long been conveniently disguised as Royal Air Force bases. If there were an honest count, the actual size of our military empire would probably top 1,000 different bases in other people's countries, but no one -- possibly not even the Pentagon -- knows the exact number for sure, although it has been distinctly on the rise in recent years.

  76. The coldest tasting beer on earth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure it won't be long till the Coors Brewing Co. creats up a commercial touting that there beer is brew on Dome A so it will be "the coldest tasting beer on earth."

  77. Wayland? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope that when they get there, they find no ancient temples just oozing with evil.

  78. another question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why, on god's green earth, would anyone want to do this?

    1. Re:another question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My question is, why can't they fly?

      No, I have not RTFA.

  79. Dome A is not the highest point in Antarctica by binarstu · · Score: 1

    A slight correction to the original post: Dome A is not the highest point on the Antarctic continent. The highest point is Vinson Massif at 4,897 meters. Vinson Massif has already been climbed by humans.

  80. Just ask by andy@petdance.com · · Score: 1
    "They will also test whether it is suitable for human beings to live in the harsh environment there," he said.

    I bet they could do some initial market research to check the feasability.

    1. Would you like to live in Antarctica where it's really really really cold?
    (_) Yes
    (_) No

    2. If you answered "Yes", how much would you pay to live there? ____________________

    Thank you for responding. Your answers help us provide housing that best suits the needs of you and our other customers

    Sincerely,
    The Chinese

    Initial research would cost far less than just one super-dooper mega-parka. Too bad the Chinese don't understand good ol' American capitalism.
  81. DONT GO!!! by RexRhino · · Score: 1

    Remember the doomed Lake expedition!

    "I am forced into speech because men of science have refused to follow my advice without knowing why. It is altogether against my will that I tell my reasons for opposing this contemplated invasion of the antarctic - with its vast fossil hunt and its wholesale boring and melting of the ancient ice caps. And I am the more reluctant because my warning may be in vain."

    "The effect was that of a Cyclopean city of no architecture known to man or to human imagination, with vast aggregations of night-black masonry embodying monstrous perversions of geometrical laws. There were truncated cones, sometimes terraced or fluted, surmounted by tall cylindrical shafts here and there bulbously enlarged and often capped with tiers of thinnish scalloped disks; and strange beetling, table-like constructions suggesting piles of multitudinous rectangular slabs or circular plates or five-pointed stars with each one overlapping the one beneath. There were composite cones and pyramids either alone or surmounting cylinders or cubes or flatter truncated cones and pyramids, and occasional needle-like spires in curious clusters of five. All of these febrile structures seemed knit together by tubular bridges crossing from one to the other at various dizzy heights, and the implied scale of the whole was terrifying and oppressive in its sheer gigantism. The general type of mirage was not unlike some of the wilder forms observed and drawn by the arctic whaler Scoresby in 1820, but at this time and place, with those dark, unknown mountain peaks soaring stupendously ahead, that anomalous elder-world discovery in our minds, and the pall of probable disaster enveloping the greater part of our expedition, we all seemed to find in it a taint of latent malignity and infinitely evil portent."

    Heed H.P. Lovecraft's warning!

  82. How is this flamebait, you simpleton moderators? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    I guess some of you are ashamed of being in "red states". A little "buyer's remorse", perhaps?

    You have some serious soul-searching to do out there in the south and the heartland. You morons legitimized fear and hate in the election, and now all forward-thinkers have to reap the garbage you closed-minded simpletons have sown.

  83. Re:My experiences in China by Gulik · · Score: 1

    Noise pollution is endemic. It doesn't help that their infernal language consists of abrupt rapid fire tones that is a cacophony for any human ear to bear.

    This was a great troll, but this bit was my favorite; the 1850's "great white hunter" style was dead-on.

  84. How cold is it if its never been measured? by crovira · · Score: 1

    What if its a lovely day with balmy breeze rocking the pams trees to and fro?

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  85. Amazing. by i41Overlord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's amazing the lengths people will go to show that the USA can or has been beaten. Even if the USA won, they'll concoct a reasoning that shows that they really lost.

    I think there's an irrational hatred of the USA in general which causes people to want the US to fail. I don't waste my time bashing other countries highlighting all their failures, I want them to succeed. But I also want things to be kept in perspective and not sensationalized or overlooked. Saying that a country "can" do something that another country already has done is cheap talk. Let's keep it real- until they have, they haven't.

    Your reasoning was pretty good, but it still was a stretch... it seemed like you were really reaching for something. Neither the USA, Russia, or China are going to build a "castle" on the Moon or Mars and defend it against exploration by another country. Space exploration is usually an area where countries help each other out even if they're enemies in another regard.

    It is important to push emotions aside and keep things in perspective. Even if you don't like someone you should still be objective. Spinning the truth to make them sound like a failure only uncovers your bias against them.

    1. Re:Amazing. by kfg · · Score: 1

      It is important to push emotions aside and keep things in perspective.

      Indeed.

      KFG

    2. Re:Amazing. by lemox · · Score: 1
      Neither the USA, Russia, or China are going to build a "castle" on the Moon or Mars and defend it against exploration by another country. Space exploration is usually an area where countries help each other out even if they're enemies in another regard.
      I wouldn't be so sure about that. There are rumblings in the US amongst the neoconservatives and ouright shouts in PRC about the militarization of space. Plus, I don't remember much helpful advice passing betweent the US and USSR during the race for the Moon.
      --

      "We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC

  86. Re:My experiences in China by elpapacito · · Score: 1

    >> Traffic is horrible. Rules are non-existent except for at traffic lights: red means to go fast, green means to go REALLY REALLY fast.

    > Ever been to Rome? ;-)

    Yeah sure, dude you're talking about Naples. Italians being colourful people, they like to have decorative lights in Rome.

  87. Unspeakable Horrors? by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

    Of course there are unspeakable horrors. This is Lovecraft. The real question is always are they tentacled or untentacled horrors. As I recall, in AtMoM we are dealing with untentacled horrors.

    Hey don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  88. In the movies by karniv0re · · Score: 1

    Psht! This was like, so yesterday. They already did this when the second ice age came, and we all had to move to Mexico... Or maybe I'm thinking of a movie...

  89. Cold weather by evildogeye · · Score: 2, Funny
    This confuses me. I don't even like to leave the house when its lower than 68 degrees F. I'm hoping that global warming can negate the need for humans to enter such cold temperatures.


    John - http://www.wasauna.com/

  90. Somewhat relevant by pragma_x · · Score: 1

    I found myself asking some similar questions to my wife, who proposed the (whimsical) notion of moving to Iceland.

    3. Do you like trees, or enjoy the fact that there is vegetation within sight of your front door?

    (_) Yes (_) No (_) Do B-Trees count?

    4. Do you enjoy going outside for leisure?

    (_) Yes (_) No (_) What is 'outiside'?

    5. Do you find any of the following terms and phrases exciting: total isolation, arctic desert, extremophile, snowblind, and ozone hole?

    (_) Yes (_) No

    6. How do you feel about having sunlight for only half the year, 20-24 hours a day?

    (_) Hate it (_) Love it (_) What is 'sunlight'?

    7. What career would you like to persue on the artic circle (check all that apply)?

    (_) Scientist

  91. [OT] Re:Poor spelling by Craig+Davison · · Score: 1

    Given that the u in buried and the a in panel are short vowels, it makes sense to double the next consonant if you're not very good at remembering spelling. Consider planed vs. planned, or mate vs. matte, or bated vs. batted.

    Also, S and D are close on the keyboard.

  92. What can we hope to learn from this by Joao · · Score: 1

    A team of our researchers spent eighteen months in Antarctica living like penguins, and subsequently dying like penguins - only quicker - proving that the penguin is a clever little bastard in his own environment.

  93. Who is going to cleanup? by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 1

    So they are going to place this device in a pristine enviornment, previously untouched by man, and leave it there for the ages. Not to mention all the junk they will leave behind during their trek.

    Who is going to pick up the trash?

  94. Fool! It's The Sino-Great Old One Pact! by saudadelinux · · Score: 1

    **I** have it on good authority that they're pushing for something old...the Great Old Ones, in fact!

    They're going to Leng, to confer with the dread star-headed elder things, in the Cyclopean ruins of their cities. The heck with Mars ... we'll all be sucked headless when they loose the shoggoths on us - and not the way you lonely bastards think! Ahhhhhhh!

    --
    I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
  95. RTG defined by bruckie · · Score: 2, Informative

    RTG = Radioisotopic Thermoelectric Generator

    See this site for more info.

    --Bruce

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
  96. The Coldest Spot by kzinti · · Score: 1

    Chinese Team Heading for Coldest Spot on Earth

    They're going to visit Courtney Love's vagina? Big deal, plenty of men have been THERE before.

  97. where? by qwp · · Score: 0

    Where can i sign up?
    This seams a lot more useful than my current endevor!.

    Who's with me?

  98. Seinfeld and Costanza would warn those guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    about shrinkage -- major skrinkage!

  99. Coldest place on earth? by Misch · · Score: 2, Funny

    Coldest place on earth? They'll have to get past the Secret Service first... Dick Cheney's heart isn't exactly accessible you know.

    --

    --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
  100. Re:My experiences in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL - THAT WAS A TROLL

    you fucking idiot!

    Think about all the time you wasted with your stupid ass response

  101. Why does every topic that mentions China... by gamer4Life · · Score: 1

    ...ends up with a China-bashing rant?

    Title: "Americans find a way to cure cancer"

    --> "Americans are dirty, dirty people, arrogant bastards...they don't respect the poor and only care to dominate the world. This curing cancer could be their latest diabolical plot to create biological weapons!"

    Stick to the f'en topic morons.

  102. Re:Oh... by Flunitrazepam · · Score: 1

    A staggering and brilliant post

    --
    1) Your analysis is based on bad assumptions so your result is way off. 2) You're a sick bastard for fucking a horse.
  103. On (un)related news... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

    (CNN theme plays)
    (begin transmission)
    November 17, 2104.

    (Female Reporter speaks) Today there have been found the remains of a human settlement about a hundred years old, on the coldest spot of the earth, in an area that historians call "Antarctica". How the people in there managed to survive is a mystery. Is this another archaeological find, like the lost city of Atlantis?

    --- update ---

    We've now found more about this human settlement. Apparently there was a group who wanted to break some world record.

    (Camera returns to the studio)
    That's right, Chris. I guess humans keep trying to do the impossible, for reasons we can't understand.

    For martian news, this is Ken Brockman.
    (end of transmission)

  104. [OT] A Jersey Limerick ;-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    We come from the planet Uranus;
    the methane is really quite heinous.
    It's not quite like hell,
    you'll get used to the smell,
    but New Jersey keeps trying to claim us.

  105. bye bye by Ambient_Developer · · Score: 1

    Later chinese guys, and good luck.

  106. Rarer than when hell freezes over: by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1

    When Hell thaws -- this requires, of course, that it freezes over first.

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  107. Hey, enough already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    their actions in the geopolitical sphere where things actually matter are not so friendly and come very close to antagonizing and aggravating an already tepid friendship with it and its neighbors.

    Enough already with this US bashing!

    If Chin.... umh, err.... ok, I see. My bad, wrong country. :-)

  108. weird by torrents · · Score: 1

    we've set up probes on other palnets yet we still have not been everywhere on this planet.

    --
    Get your torrents...
  109. I thought... by SweetZombieJesus · · Score: 1

    The coldest spot on earth was Portage and Main in Winnipeg... hmmm

    --
    Cheezit! We're boned! - famous 31st Century bending unit
  110. Not really that cold... by buford_tannen · · Score: 1

    I work for a company that produces the superconducting magnets for MRI systems. -269.15 C is a common temperature inside the helium vessel. If the atmosphere (mostly N2, but some other stuff) gets into the vessel and freezes (contaminating it), then we might warm it up (with helium gas) to -90C to thaw and blow that other junk out.

    I guess it would have been better to say "Chinese Team Heading for Coldest Natural Spot on Earth"

    Note: Because of the low temperatures, we use Kelvin for temperatures at work. I've converted these to Celsius for your convenience.

    --
    Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
  111. Slapstick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just hope they're not down there fucking up our gravity...

  112. Whatever... by indig0 · · Score: 1

    The coldest place on earth (actually, the known universe) is Wieman's lab at Colorado. They measure temperatures in nanokelvin. :-P