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China Blocking Access to Google News Site
loconet writes "BBC and Reuters are reporting that China is blocking access to the Web site Google News according to media watchdog Reporters Without Borders. The organisation also accused Google of being complicit by filtering its Chinese-language site." From Reuters' version of the story: "The Paris-based group said the government had been blocking Google's English-language news Web site for about 10 days, after the company launched a Chinese-language version that removed politically sensitive reports."
Ahh the great leap forward kinda sounds like the Chinese equivalent of the 90's tech bubble (although the tech bubble didn't have that whole widespread famine thing)
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed in Google making a "local" version of their news feeder for China. It's not local news, it's censored news. That doesn't sound like the Google I know and love.
- dshaw
China is a sovereign nation. I don't think you'd hear the end of it if you suggested that Americans be required to have their votes counted in the open.
Leave China alone and pay attention to the problems in your own country.
Maybe they missed the one about Canada Arresting Bush?
If you are in China, use the following link to read the stories: Link
Criticise China but be capable of listening to and considering criticism of your own country too.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
What's the Chinese word for proxy server? Probably 'jail time' if you mispronounce it.
The BBC article says that "the site does not filter news results to remove politically sensitive information." I wonder what exactly gets through. I've heard that certain American political sites (nationalreview.com, democraticunderground.com) are not filtered in China--I don't know if that's true, but it suggests an alternative strategy for finding interesting information.
I find it hard to believe that they could censor *everything*, unless they set the default to 'banned' and allowed sites on a case-by-case basis. But even that's hard--a seemingly innocuous site could suddenly have "objectionable" content one day.
meanwhile Iraq disappears from frontpages even though more US soldiers where killed this month than any other month so far, if google censored US news how would you know ?
of course the Whitehouse wouldnt attempt to hide politically sensitive stuff about Iraq now would it ?
This is news? I was in China this spring and got used to how I couldn't access Google News, BBC News or any of Google's page caches.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/01/opinion/01kristo f.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=
China's Donkey Droppings
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
For the last century, the title of "most important place in the world" has belonged to the United States, but that role seems likely to shift in this century to China.
So what are China's new leaders, Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao, really like? Are they visionaries who are presiding over the greatest explosion of wealth the world has ever known? Or are they ruthless thugs who persecute Christians, Falun Gong adherents, labor leaders and journalists in a desperate attempt to maintain their dictatorship?
There's some evidence for both propositions, and they are probably both true to some degree.
When Mr. Hu and Mr. Wen rose to the helm of the Communist Party two years ago, many Chinese hoped they would bring a new openness to a nation that is dynamic economically but stagnant intellectually. Instead, China has become more repressive.
The repression has now engulfed a member of The New York Times's family. Zhao Yan, a researcher for the Beijing bureau of The Times, has been detained by the authorities since September and is not allowed to communicate with his family or lawyers.
Mr. Zhao is accused of leaking state secrets, a very serious charge that could lead to a decade in prison. China's government may believe that he was behind the September scoop by The Times's Beijing bureau chief, Joseph Kahn, that China's former leader, Jiang Zemin, was about to retire from his last formal position.
While The Times's policy is, wisely, never to comment on the sources of articles, my own private digging indicates that Mr. Zhao was not the source for that scoop. He is innocent of everything except being a fine journalist who, before joining The Times, wrote important articles in the Chinese press about corruption.
(In fairness, sending journalists to prison for doing their job is not an exclusively Chinese phenomenon. Several American journalists - Jim Taricani of NBC, Judith Miller of this newspaper and Matthew Cooper of Time - may be sent to U.S. prisons in the next month or two for refusing to reveal their sources.)
Mr. Zhao's case is depressingly similar to that of another Chinese journalist, Jiang Weiping. He is serving a six-year sentence for "revealing state secrets," even though his real crime was exposing corruption.
"China has changed so much economically, but not politically," Jiang Weiping's wife, Li Yanling, told me. "It's a puzzle to me."
The authorities ordered Ms. Li to keep quiet about her husband's arrest, and detained her when she didn't. The couple's daughter, now 15, was traumatized at losing first her father and then her mother to the Chinese prison system. When Ms. Li was finally released, the daughter called her constantly from school to make sure that she had not been arrested again.
Mr. Zhao's arrest is just the latest in a broad crackdown in China. The Committee to Protect Journalists reports that 42 journalists are now in prison in China, more than in any other country.
"There was a period of openness, a period of hope, when the new leaders first came to power," said Jiao Guobiao, a journalism professor at Beijing University. "But now they've consolidated power, and everything has closed up again."
Mr. Jiao should know. He wrote an essay this year denouncing censorship, and it was immediately censored. Now the government has banned Mr. Jiao from teaching.
I've felt this cooling as well. I was planning to visit China this month, but the government has declined to give me a visa. It's the first time I've been refused, and the State Security Ministry may have worried that I would write a column about its unjust imprisonment of Mr. Zhao.
I love China, and I share its officials' distaste for those who harm it. That's why I'm angry that hard-liners in Beijing are presenting China to the world as repressive, fragile, tyra
I'm sure the repressed Chinese appreciate not being bothered by getting to see the results to their illicit queries.
In China, Google News is for old people.
Everyone mostly uses SMS to share news there, especially the teenagers. By the time it hits the online press it's so old it's passe!
True story - I have a friend in China on a student exchange program, and her cellphone's always up-to-date with the latest sports scores or forwarded stories from friends. Hey, at least they're involved!
Freedom starts with you.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
I bet there are plenty of Chinese investors that have it in their interest to have the filtered news. Its kinda sad, before Google went public I envisioned them as the David, then I started to view them as the lovable Goliath. But now... Regardless, I wish I had bought $100k worth of their stock when it first came out. I would have almost doubled my money by now.
I know people who are both perfectly reasonable and intelligent, but having grown up in China, know nothing about Tiamanmen. They also claim that Tibet was never invaded; it had always been a part of China. Some are even willing to confess that they formerly hated anything Japanese (including people) due to the nature of the propaganda in its schools. Of course, I'm not saying that everyone who comes out of China's education system is like this, but surely an environment which fosters these views is is bad enough?
China's economy is growing fast; soon it will be too bit for anyone to speak out against its sensitive policies without major fear of reprisals. If something isn't done now, it may never be.
Evil isn't just a philosophical construct, nor is it a metaphor, it exists.
There is very little that we can do about this other than refuse to do business with Chinese companies, which is nearly impossible unless you want to go live in a mud hut someplace.
When someone lies, they're wrong, and obscuring information is just another form of lying.
Hopefully one day freedom will come to China, but not today.
Actually it is North Korea that the world needs to focus its attention on. The sooner Kim Jong il is removed from power the better. As bad as Saddam was, he's a frelling nobel peace prize winner compared to Kim. A very special place in the fires of hades is even now being prepared for his punk ass.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
I'm in China. Google News is working fine at the moment. I had never tried it from here before, so I can't verify whether or not it was ever blocked. BBC NEWS is, as always, blocked. BBC World News however, does work.
Dear Citizens of China,
If you click on any of those links, we'll know about it.
Love and Kisses,
Your beloved Government.
...as expressed by its founders, is "Don't be evil." I would sure like to hear them explain how this fits in with that, if it is indeed true.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
> A net police force monitors websites and e-mails, and controls on gateways connecting the country to the global internet....
How about a police force to monitor SPAM exiting the country?
Looks like google doesn't need any help censoring your site now. We saw to that.
MWAHAHAAA
You will die. It uses up the oxygen in the room. USA is trying to supress.
Now you know how the rest of the world feels about the US.
Collaboration with an evil is as good as being evil. Sorry Google. Perhaps we could add an additional meaning to the phrase "to google?" Activities like talking endlessly about how good you are, and then silently supporting the worlds largest oppressive regime would fall into that category. It is almost like bad science fiction. There is no excuse for enabling oppression. I don't care about markets. This gives the average Chinese citizen the impression that the rest of the world (e.g. google) supports their intellectual imprisonment. Conversely, having a site like google firewalled would underline the level of their oppression.
-- http://thegirlorthecar.com funny dating game for guys
To say that Google is co-operating with china's net police is an overstatement. They just dont list sites that chineese people cant get to. The Chineese blocked news.google.com, not the other way around. Its like how china blocked blogger.com and blogspot.com because some blogs were listing proxy servers to get around the "great firewall".
You can certainly blame google for censorship. Does china block news.yahoo.com and drudgereport.com? Its quite likely. If you live in china, and cant get to reuters news reports, then why bother having them be listed at all? 403 forbidden and 404 file not found errors are rather fun to ge getting at almost every site you visit. Not to mention a waste of productivity
You assume /. isn't banned over there.... And probably incorrectly, too...
Uh... wha?
Method a: we refuse to deal with china. China remains a thid world country with no middle class, few trade partners, and a growing population of pissed off peasants. They have rockets, missiles, nuclear bombs - and then they revert to civil war. And unlike those poissant countries we're been meddling in for decades, "liberation" is not an option here, lest we lose NYC and LA in giant red clouds. Meanwhile we lose completely Japan, Taiwan, and dozens of other trade partners who now find themselves in the middle of a war zone.
Method b: we make china a trade partner, export as much of our culture as we can, and china becomes a nation of the fastest rising middle class in the world. Even if it's only a 30% middle class that's still more middle class citizens than there are people in the entire US. They pick the best of these new influences, and evolve their own governance through peaceful means - lest they face sanctions and risk losing all that new wealth and comfort.
Which way do you think is better for world stability?
China's affairs are their own. Everyone dies - even dynasties. Let them take the best from western culture and evolve their own ideals about liberty and freedom.
The war of definitions is such a game which cannot be won. There are, as I see it, at least four different and completely unrelated definitions for the words, "Liberal" and "Conservative".
On the one hand, "Liberal" implies to some the idea that governments should not allow personal gain or individuality of any kind so that all people are treated equally, --an ideology which would certainly lead to fascist nightmares like China.
On the other hand, "Liberal" implies to others that people should be treated with healthy respect and given the room to grow and live in freedom. Liberal = Liberate = Free. This is how I define the word, and I define, "Conservative" as the opposite view point. By this definition, China is the product of Conservative ideology. --Where only a small group of people have huge freedom while the masses suffer under Draconian controls.
When it comes down to it, these words are pretty useless for describing different view points, exactly because there are multiple definitions for each and high emotions attached to the different concepts.
Beneath this shouting match, I see only two different approaches:
1. People who believe in, "Me First, Screw Everybody Else." (An ideology, which if left to its own devices, ultimately results in the pooling of power within very small groups. It is upon this model that Fascism is based. --And societies which live in the illusion of freedom, but which are anything but free. --Like the U.S.)
2. People who believe in, "I'll share with those who are also working to build a better world and who are also willing to share". (A model which the 'Me First' people despise because it would stop them from enslaving and raping and building Walmarts.)
These two models cannot co-exist, and neither model can ultimately prevail in this world. This is why there will always be strife and war in this reality. This level of existence is a giant stew pot designed to teach the basics of civility and appropriate behavior. --Those who learn all their lessons and get fed up with trying to make sensible systems work here, will finally move on to higher levels where entire non-selfish paradigms can exist. Those who decide to embrace selfishness can also rise to levels where pure selfishness can also exist. Service-to-self people are prevented, however, from moving beyond that point.
-FL
Well, you have to remember that the google is in it for money. Any company is about that. The "You can make money without doing evil"-thing will bow away to realities of making money and marketshare. If google did not censor their site they would be totally blocked. When totally blocked they would loose the ability to reach extremly many ( http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Research/LUC/ChinaFood/data /pop/pop_9a.htm )
people available there. Then someone else would step in...
The fascination some Americans have with thinking Slashdot is a strictly American phenomenon is telling...
Google is complicit in the Chinese government censorship by covering it up without a trace. More accurate would be to link blocked URLs to a Google page that said
"403 Forbidden
Your government is blocking your access to that URL. And it is getting a copy of this message, and your IP#. Best of luck."
That would be accurate, and not threaten "productivity", though I don't know about "fun".
--
make install -not war
It was blocked for a week or so, but is fine now...
/. for a few months about this time last year.
Par for the course. They blocked
No big deal, if you ask me. Just annoying.
Max.
Dumbass moderators...why the FUCK is this flamebait??
i dont blame google at all! it must be chairman mao who wields the stick.
use http://www.google.com/news instead of http://news.google.com/
Where the hell have you been?
You assume /. isn't banned over there.... And probably incorrectly, too...
/. is perfectly accessible in China and has been for the two years I've been here.
sheesh. stick to topics you're reasonably well informed about.
I have read about the first point on many semi-official sites, although the estimates of the number of deaths there is 10~40M, which is still staggering. Government officials do not seem to mind these articles much, and maybe it is published on something official.
As for the rest, since no one around me know the fact, I find it safer not to firmly believe anyone's opinion.
I wonder what exactly gets through
Hop on a chinese proxy server and see for yourself:
Chinese Proxy List Part 1
Chinese Proxy List Part 2
I've been poking around with 202.96.60.61:80 and until a few minutes ago was getting nothing from news.google.com but a timeout (all other websites seem to work)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm not surprised, or even disappointed (low expectations protect me). I'm just pointing out the futility of dealing with the devil.
--
make install -not war
It's weird, just about every screenshot people post on here is from a windows PC. Granted, most people are running Firefox instead of IE at least, but still - I thought we would have a higher % of Linux/BSD/Other users on this site.
-- The doctor said I wouldn't get so many nose bleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!
Yeah now all we need is the chinese goverment to take a step backward from blocking stuff coming in and block their spam servers from going out.
Remember the accidental bombing of the Chinese embassy in Serbia? 2 people died. The Chinese at American universities staged their, first ever, clamorous demonstrations against the USA.
As for the rape of Tibet, the Chinese are stone cold silent. There is not even a peep out of them. Indeed, even the Chinese in Taiwan province support integrating Tibet into "One China".
Getting back to the censorship issue, Google generally acquiesces to the policies of Beijing. The majority of Google's employees are former or current H-1B employees. Many of them are Chinese and, hence, support the policies of Beijing.
Google management caring about human rights? Yeah. Right. The management does not even care about the plight of unemployed Americans and hired H-1Bs, left and right, when American engineers were unemployed during the 2001-2003 recession in Silicon Valley. The only ethics that Google understands is the kind spelled with a dollar sign: ethic$.
I'm sitting in Southern China, about an hour north of HongKong, in Shenzhen, and I can surf Google news all I want...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Just because the hunger to improve the bottomline of the multinational corporations made China the largest "outsource-based economy" it still remains a Communist country.
It gets worse: since the governments of the Western countries are under the heavy influence of the multinational corporations, China has lost it's hope to democracy.
A strange kind of post-modern slavery: it's everybody's interest to keep the political, economical "slaves" of China under the tight Communist rule, in order to keep the cheap, short-leashed, strike-free "off-shore" labour force available for all corporations around the world.
It's not over here: the cheap, strike-free "off-shore" labour force creates an increasingly poor middle-class even in the most developed countries via outsourcing.
Since these customers have less and less purchasing power, they can't afford the luxury to refuse either the reduced cost goods, provided by the "globalized slave" economies, or even the ideology that creates this global economy.
The workforce in the developed countries are also kept on ever shorter leash by the threat and reality of further outsourcing. Corporations can get the benefits both way.
There is really nothing left to complain about: You want the 50% sale price on Nike, because your purchasing power shrinks, Nike wants to further increase their profit, the Chinese Communist government want s every cents to provide fundings to stay in power.
If there was anything to learn for a Communist government from the fall of the Communists in the USSR and Eastern Europe, that would be the realization that you can't sustain even a Communist dictatorship without an economy, which is able to export and get hard currency.
So stop crying about Google's censorship.
It's everybody's interest. Even yours.
It's all perfect the way it is.
Be happy and shut up.
Religion? The Falun Gong is a cult that incites members to commit suicide. I doubt this would be legal in many places in the world, including the so-called "freedom-loving" countries.
Both pro- and anti- Google steps are indeed painful, but highly necessary to manage troubling events and criminals who abuse delecate computer system.
I suggest you read Slashdot
Speaking as someone who's been working here for a bit, I have to say two things.
First, all this shit about the Chinese Government being the evilest thing on earth is nuts. The government here manages to keep social order such that people can get up and go to work everyday, and such that an increasing number of this generation of children have a shot at the kind of economy we like to talk about in the USA; work like a dog and get yourself a better life. Sure there's a ton of people (80% of 1.3 billion) who are farmers and will never see this. Do you think a liberal democracy based on egalitarian ideals could just be stuck onto a society like this where so many people are completely uneducated? The current government is doing the right thing; focusing on decreasing the population to a level that the economy can comfortably support (keep in mind China has very VERY little in the way of natural resources). Granted there are massive problems here, particularly institutionalized corruption of the beauracracy, but you could do a lot worse. China is a police state? The US is MUCH more heavily policed, although if you DO manage to catch the attention of the real Chinese police they WILL shoot you in the head. Nothing ever shows up in the Chinese media that's critical of the government? SO what?! Nothing ever shows up on the USA's useless fucking media that hasn't been approved by the station's marketing department. Besides, you think Chinese people here don't know what's going on? Christ, of COURSE they know they're not getting the whole story. You think these people are stupid?
Which brings me to Google. Given that these days China is hardly Nazi Germany (or Stalinist Russia or even Maoist China), saying that making censorship concessions with the PRC government. is tantamount to an act of evil is just dumb. You have the choice of not giving the Chinese people access to an information retrieval tool that will further entrench the Internet in their lives as a useful (and possibly eventually liberating) tool OR you can just do what you can. I'll take the second one any day. Look, nothing is going to piss the Chinese off worse than a hairy fucking big nosed foreignor walking in and tellin' the way it is about free speech. That's just a dumb idea.
The breaking up permenantly of China is very unlikely given the history of China. For over 5000 years, since the Xia dynasty, China has been united and split apart over and over again; but it always manages to come back around and recover. Of course, the times spans we're talking about are 100-200 years, but then the racial memory is over 5000 years.
China proper has been unified by a common written language and a national indentity for a long time, and even most of the people of Taiwan and Hong Kong still long to be part of one China, despite what the American media may report about seperatist movememnts there. Recent Taiwanese polls indicate that most Taiwanese resent intervention by the mainland, but believe eventual reunification is good and inevitable.
*Taiwan's own constitution calls for eventual reunification of the mainland!*
A short break-up is possible, but China will once again unite, just like in the opening paragraphs of "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms" - as applicable as it was today as hundreds of years ago.
"That doesn't sound like the Google I know and love."
No, it sounds more like the google that's been gobbling up third party services left and right to incorporate into itself ala Windows & Microsoft. I mean, who doesn't claim to be the good guy PR image thing anyway?
Yet another fine example that it really is all about the Benjamines regardless of what comes out of their mouth.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Surely being pro google and in favor a decision they made is a topic suitable for the halls of Slashdot? Oh, and I missed the bit in my post where there was racism, I simply hold a different opinion that the majority. Does that make me a racist?
"Some are even willing to confess that they formerly hated anything Japanese (including people) due to the nature of the propaganda in its schools."
This is indeed a problem in China, but perhaps some context of this will further explain.
In WWII, Japan engaged in genocide against the Chinese people; I don't use the word genocide lightly, but what happened in China qualifies. Entire cities were put to the sword and thousands of Chinese were used as live guinea pigs in Japanese military hospitals to experiment with bacterial warfare agents. Please read Iris Chang's _The Rape of Nanking_ for more information on this.
While things of 50 years ago may not seem important, they are extremely so for the Chinese people. The Japanese government still refuses to officially acknowledge the problems of WWII, and the conservative Japanese branches of the Diet and the media often-times claim that Japanese genocide against the Chinese during WWII never occured. These same press members also often claim that the Holocaust never occured either.
Perhaps if a formal apology occured (on the same order as the German Chancellor WILLIE BRANDT's actions in front of the Holocaust Memorial - a dignified and graceful man) and Japanese children were no longer lied to about their country's despicable WWII behavior, then we could have peace and better relations.
Around about 12 months ago, plus or minus several months, I noticed a very sudden reduction in the number of pro-Arab articles in the English-language Google news for USA readers. There used to be heaps of articles from English-language newspapers in the Arab world (mostly translations), expressing the Arab points of view on the various modalities of massacring Arabs in the last couple of years. Does this indicate that Google "changed their algorithm" again? That's what they say whenever the general search changes drastically. I suspect that Google got a lot of comments from the vast right-wing conspiracy about the "anti-American" views in news articles about the wars. It's a pity, because now the Google news only contains pro-USA or very mild articles. Blood-curdling reports on US and Israeli military actions don't get linked any more.
Most Slashdot folks posting are slacking off at work and don't have a choice of OS.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I live in China. Google news was blocked for about 4 or 5 days, but it's been accessable again for the past week or so. I noticed that the news of Russia granting a visa to the Dalai Lama was out around the same time that the block was in place.
Shame on you when you step through to the Ol Dirty Bastard. BROOKLYN ZOO !
Slashdot seems to be very U.S.-centric. Do you have any plans to be more international in your scope?
Slashdot is U.S.-centric. We readily admit this, and really don't see it as a problem. Slashdot is run by Americans, after all, and the vast majority of our readership is in the U.S. We're certainly not opposed to doing more international stories, but we don't have any formal plans for making that happen. All we can really tell you is that if you're outside the U.S. and you have news, submit it, and if it looks interesting, we'll post it.
It is worth noting that there is a Japanese Slashdot run by VA Japan. While we helped them a little in their early days, they essentially run their own content without any real involvement from us... none of us can read Kanji! There are currently no plans to do other language or nation specific Slashdot sites.
Answered by: CmdrTaco
Last Modified: 10/3/04
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
that the Beijing City government is buying $3.54M Microsoft software (Windows and Office) and how much shit the corrupt officers can get from it...
I've lived in several countries outside of the US (including China), and I'll be the first to admit that a lot of what the US government does I disagree with. But your post reeks of bigotry--and the fact that it's bigotry within a post flaming another group of people for their own bigotry makes it smell far more awful.
Do us all a favor and grow up. If there is to be an end to all the excriment that exists in the world that we all seem to unanimously agree upon, let us stop flinging our own, shall we?
China's censorship and Google's response have nothing to do with Fox news or any American media outlet. Our media has many problems, which definately need to be addressed, but you're being over dramatic to say the least. I hate how this stuff gets modded up.
I'm sure you're very bright. Why don't you use your brain to come up with ways of solving these problems? The inability to do so will leave you in the same quagmire of ignorance and "cluelessness" that the very people you're attacking are supposedly in.
I can assert that you care nothing about fixing the problem because if you did you would have thought about how your average American would respond to your post. Clearly, the average American would just get defensive and forget about what you have to say--which is, I think, exactly what you would do if I did the same thing to you.
Must be the education system over there.
P.S. I'm currently suffering from heavy jet lag, so I apologize for any incoherence or if it seems to harsh. You're probably not such a bad guy. Heck, if I were in the neighborhood, I'd buy you a brew at the pub. But what makes me so mad is that I agree that Americans are being largely deceived and intentionally kept ignorant, and I find it both sad and disheartening. I want to change it. You don't seem to want to--and because you both set really high standards for other groups of people to meet, and yet feel comfortable shooting your mouth at them in a very uninformed and bigoted fashion, you seem to me (who has lived in Central America, Europe, USA, and China) to be every bit as bad as the "Americans" you're so rabidly attacking.
I've heard enough rednecks and their "those two-bit good-for-nothing ignor'nt back-stabbing $nationality_of_choice" tripe.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
By the way, if we could get some Chinese citizens to come over here and correct the problems in our government, that'd be great. I'd love for them to fix our political problems if they could.
The general idea behind that quote is that you shouldn't help fix someone else's problems very if you're in worse shape. You don't seriously think that the US is in worse shape than China on the freedom front, do you?
The last war protest we had that someone died in due to protest was Vietnam, and that was a matter of a few nervous national guardsman with guns and a lot of violent protesters with stones than willfully running people over with tanks. Further, I can say "George W. Bush was given Hitler's Brain in a ceremony performed by Nazi-Satanic brain surgeons" without getting a knock on my door tomorrow.
Keep things in perspective.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Yahoo is on the rise, try some searches you'll be pleasantly surprised.
(I emailed this comment to the author. My slashdot Login is Shaneh0, I'm posting as A.C because after writing the author I wanted to share it with you)
... Al queada links? How many of you think most of the world support your actions?"
I modded your comment down, "-1 Overrated."
I did this because I think your post is every bit as ignorant as you claim we are.
"China may not have googlenews, but how many subbed Chinese new stations do you have in America?"
While we don't pick up any Chinese TV networks, Google News does sample Chinese news sources--which, from what I've seen, are about as reliable as Pravda--sometimes even linked as the top story. So it's ironic that you argue our ignorance to the Chinese press. I wouldn't have the world Xihuana (sp?) in my vocabulary if that were true, and I'm certainly not the only one.
'Is it not America that closed down reporting of Iraq from stations like al jazeera"
The fact is, we are AT WAR with Iraq. Like it or not, it's true. Part of war is controlling propaganda, and it's been that way for a long time. I disagree with the war in Iraq but now that we're involved, I support doing what it takes to win.
"China has the great Firewall. - You have Fox."
EXACTLY! We have Fox, and CNN and NPR and CSPAN and Countless others, including ultra-independent bloggers who would probably be arrested in China.
"How many Americans still think Saddam had an active WMD program?
Honestly, I'd say that at LEAST a majority of Americans knows the truth about these things. Contrary to YOUR ignorant belief, most Americans are NOT un-educated or un-informed about domestic and world issues.
I didn't personally vote for Bush (either time) but I do know many people who did. Bush supporters aren't ignorant to his mistakes, or the state of affairs in Iraq, or the worlds opinion of America. They just felt he would be the better president.
If you think America on its worst day is ANYTHING CLOSE to as bad as China on its best, you've completely lost perspective on reality. China rolls over it's own citizens with tanks when they dissent. The government is filthy rich while it's citizens are starving to death in record numbers each year.
There is no due process, no civil liberties and no hope of reform.
America has her share of problems, far too numerous to list here. But you go around the world to Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, South America and you ask them if they'd rather live in China or in the United States.
Cuba has almost nothing. It's a pissant little nation with a militaristic leader and no military power to speak of. Can they feed themselves? Care for their people? Sure they do the best they can.
Cuba is a big black eye on US Imperialism - we owned the place, and over the next half century proceeded to piss it away. Previous administrations (and this one too) would rather push Cuba around because it doesn't have the military strength or alliances to challenge us. They're tightening their alliances with China... but then we get back to that whole "rising standard of living" and "trade sanctions" thing.
Let's see what happens when Castro drops...
A post like this makes me wish I had mod points right now. People seem to forget about the sovernity of other nations... and that you can't always make decisions for others, even if you think it's for their own good.
widespread deaths do. The American Middle class is a direct result of casualties from WWII. Exporting American consumerism is useless. Consumerism does have it's pluses (it's keeps the masses of stupid, evil people busy buying crap instead of burning witches and whatnot), but it only works when there are labor shortages. Otherwise capitalism runs wild with globalism and you get a disturbing equalibrium of shifting capital that keeps everyone poor until the next big population crash.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Wow the commies are coming out of the wood work on this one...must be a walmart employee...
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
When Google wants to operate in the US, it abides by US law. When Google wants to operate in China, it abides by Chinese law. And right now, Chinese law says no polical web content. Who are we to criticize how they live? I know plenty of people who have gone over there and they say that the people of China appear to be rather contect with their situation.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
and it's still crap. If your argument holds, i.e. that anything a business does is OK so long as it's good for shareholder value, then the stock market is inheriently evil, because it's always more profitable to abuse people than to be a good guy (nice guys don't finish last, but they don't come in first either).
This is were responsible governments step in to mitigate the evil, and where the American gov't steps in to encourage it.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
If you produced something intented to be fake, you should tell the readers that it is fake.
If you produced something intended to be incomplete, you should tell the readers that it is incomplete.
So, if it is censored, you should tell the people that it is censored. Or otherwise they will reasonabily believe that it is not......
Therefore, Google, please respect your users and tell them the truth.
http://www.ieaa.org/~adrian/
but as a wise man once said when asked why he didn't leave, I say back:
"because I don't want to be a victim of it's foreign policy".
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I sell stuff on ebay. I had a guy from El Salvador win a bid on a hard drive I was selling. He has an "arrangement" with a shipper in Florida to get around the barriers, but otherwise that hard drive that cost him fifty bucks would end up damn close to 200 bucks by the time UPS (or the post office - they're both ridiculously priced) got their money and the tarrifs were covered. Unless I'm willing to get in a car and drive to El Salvador, the barriers to individual trade there are massive. Even sending shit to Canada is a pain in the butt - NAFTA only seems to really apply to the corporations (how surprising).
I'm a middle age child of the middle class - the very last gasp of the baby boomers. And it has never, ever, been my aspiration to spend a third of my life whittling away the hours in a fucking factory. I'm definitely not rich, don't care to be, yet even I can see how free(er) international trade would benefit me personally.
Why is it "globalisation" (a bad thing) when we're talking about trade, money and jobs, but "a revolution" (ie a good thing) when we're talking about the communications tools that have, in large part, facilitated that "globalisation?"
The problem isn't "globalisation" - it's an increasingly topheavy economic strata. And anything that enables individuals to subvert the oppressive upper economic layers (like americans selling used crap to el salvador, and salvadorians exploiting unoffical importation backdoors) helps us all.
As far as I've understood from my chinese friends, they couldn't care less what you read/think for yourself. As long as you it keep it for yourself, or to your inner circle of friends nobody cares. It's public agitating that will get you in trouble.
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
Cao ni ma, Ji bai
It means FUCK YOUR MOTHER.. VAGINA?!
eek!!!!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Screw mod points -- this is more important.
"Here's a page which talks about Jasper becker's book Hungry Ghosts, which covers how farm collectivization during Mao's "Great Leap Forward" resulted in the death of some 30-60 million of your countrymen."
We already know. In fact, everyone knows. But what the fuck is anyone going to do about it? The Communist government in China has progress a lot over the last 30 years. Sure, it's not exactly a democracy, but take a good think about American and Europe around the last turn of century.
"Here's a page which discusses the genocide rsulting from China's invasion of Tibet, where "over 17 percent of the Tibetan people killed, and 6,000 monasteries ruined."
Did you know that Tibet practises slavery? Which, incidentally, is illegal in China, and has been for well over the century and bit that the corresponding laws have existed in America.
The other two points, I'll concede, however, they are not entirely without reason either. China cannot afford to go all democratic right now, or else you'll get another break up of the Soviet Union on the world's hands. Except this time you can have 1.4 billion people instead of a few hundred million. This, incidentally, is also why the government is so hard on not allowing Tibet to leave China, and to keep Taiwan -- if one exception is made, where do you stop?
"Freedom starts with you."
Freedom is not all that it's cracked up to be. It's all very well for those who have always had food and homes to say that they'd rather starve or die than give up their "freedom". Hunger and poverty can make you see things another way. Until China is strong enough, politically and economically to not be bossed around by America (unlike the rest of the world) don't expect any changes.
Final word -- people in China know about what the government is doing -- propaganda has kinda been done to death by the old Communist government. Chinese these days are a very cynical and skeptical bunch, but just about everyone agrees that the current state and progression of China is as good as it can be, given historical circumstances and external factors.
I get BBC news on my PBS station. Only a half hour, but I'm not paying for cable. They do a DW (Deutch World?) as well.
And if I knew more spanish, I could get several stations over the air.
But other than that, I agree. Everybody is the same, why try?
You need to spend some time with more than one of those links, chief. Here's one for ya. Like I (and you) said: we essentially owned the place. We could have kept it as a state, but we didn't. Ironically, it likely would have been much better off if we had rather than let it become a haven to mob bosses and internal corruption.
That might be true.
On the other hand, I don't have any Chinese friends, so I have to reason from the rhymes I've got. I would think that the net censorship approach is rather contradictory to a "think what you want, but behave in public" position. More likely, they just don't have the manpower to hunt down the thoughtcriminals just yet.
Doesn't anyone think that access to the "unfiltered" net is possible through SSL ecrypted proxy servers in other countries? I imagine that it's highly illegal in China, but I don't think that the Chinese people don't talk amongst themselves over encrypted channels, if not offline.
Can't people organize against the government over there? Or even within the government. I think it's deplorable that Google puts up with their BS. I would think that they would take a stance on the "just aggregating the news". China doesn't own or regulate the internet.
And China certainly can't prevent people in other countries from publicly badmouthing them for trying. Perhaps the press should publish enough bad things about China that the filtered view of their dict^H^H^H^Hpeople's republic doesn't say anything useful...
<apathetic response>Ah well, it's not like anyone really care.</apathy>
I'm in China, and I can read a tons of news sites (yeah, including /., if that counts as news site!). There are some famous sites not accessible (e.g. BBC, except BBCi), sure, but most are ok, including:
...
- CBC
- Globe & Mail
- Radio Canada
- Le Figaro
- Le Monde
- CNN (garbage news anyway...)
- Liberation
- Le Devoir
- Washington Post
- New York Times
- The Economist
- Radio France
- Groklaw
-
- too many to list from my bookmarks
If I can access to so many news sources, I'm sure I have access to a pretty good range of perspectives on any issues.
I've never used google news, but if what google news is about is to index news from other sites, I don't think I would miss anything.
So, what's the big deal about this? Oh, and I have short-wave radio too, and I can listen to a shitload of stuffs out there.
Get your head out of that sand, and come to live in China for a while, and see if you miss anything here.
And another thing, there are a few underground proxies that allow you to get out without any filtering, if you really want. And yes, it works. I don't use it, because I don't need to.
I think it was Stalin who once said...
...Chinese dont have completely unrestricted access to "free" news but to assume any of the other countries have totally un-doctored news is rather tunnel visioned thinking.
"It's not who votes that counts but who counts the votes".
To assume that the so called democratic countries are "free" and "open" and China is not runs a little hollow in many respects. Fine
ALL NEWS IS DOCTORED. Get used to it and look out for it. Thats the only way I can imagine a stupid warmongering dimwit can possibly get re-elected despite making the most amazing (and mean) mistakes for the last half century. Good PR is basically manipulating the public through the media. The only thing that distinguishes this from the Chinese way is the level of diplomacy used.
Even if Chinese news is doctored, the US is hardly in a position to "impose" freedom on it anyway so why does it even bother.
The FSU was huge compared to the US but it never exceeded us. Canada has a tiny population and has a comparatively high standard of living.
If China is to become the next world leader it won't be because of Communism. But if it retains some of those ideals and is able to overtake the western version of capitalism in the process, than I would say that means they had a better idea and we would do well to take from the best of theirs, just as they did of ours.
Yes... I do think the people of the US are getting upset over nothing. The only thing threatened is their pride; to me, arrogance is nothing worth preserving.
You need to go find out what sort of moron would believe the facts you make up.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
By the way the Taiwanese have great relationship with Dalai Lama, who happened visit the island a few times, to the great annoyance of Beijing.
That website is created by a clueless idiot, possibly in the pay of the CCP.
In Korea, China is blocking Google, in Japan!
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
I suppose if you ran google, you'd turn it into a morality-of-the-month kind of business, taking stands on irrelevant issues, and getting your site blocked from the largest market in the world. Good business plan, that.
It may cheer you to know that the U.S. has sharply decreased the number of Chinese it allows to enter the country. China, in return, has increased visa fees for Americans, and heavily restricted business visa holders, which has caused me no end of problems.
I like the dollar sign thing, though. Are you parroting that back from a website you view, or did you think that one up yourself?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Occasionally, probably through sheer statisical probability, someone posts something sensible and thought-out on slashdot.
Google is definitely complicit, because by removing results that link to forbidden pages they remove the summary and also the knowledge that the result existed at all. Particularly in the context of Google News, this is obviously participating in censorship. It's like hiding the list of forbidden books so no one can even know their names.
The enemies of Democracy are
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FYI, in China, the Falun Gong are considered weird cultists, much like Scientology, Mormonism, and UFO believers are in the West.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Perhaps you feel a great sense of superiority living in the US and being completely ignorant.
Please be aware that:
Every already fucking knows what you posted.
Perhaps you were unaware that Tibet was a slave-society, where the revolution was funded by the CIA, and didn't last long because being a slave (as the majority of Tibetans were) FUCKING SUCKS. Please be aware that the nations near to Tibet are now in Maoist revolutions of their own (and Maoist revolutions are so 1980s).
Falun Gong is a crazy-ass religion. Considering China's history, where (amongst other incidents) a crazy-ass cult whose founder claimed to be Jesus's younger brother caused the violent invasion of the nation, surpression of crazy-ass religions is perhaps more understandable. Besides, America has freedom of religion only if you're a mainstream Christian. Look what happened at Waco, and that was just a few people.
It's fucking terrible how many people died during the early years of industrilization, isn't it? But in the face of such poverty, could "The Great Leap Forward" have been done better under another system? Chiang Kai-shek's government stole the entire supply of gold, in a time when the currency was entirely backed by gold. Obviously, if the nation wasn't bankrupt, such drastic steps wouldn't have been necessary. And there's a lot more to the story. It's just amazingly ignorant of an American to blame it all on Communism, but perhaps that's to be expected. Anyway this whole point is moot because it's not like it's a big secret that people died in the Great Leap Forward.
It's amazing how Americans gloss over the inconvenient fact that they had genocides and slaves in their recent history, but are quick to condemn China for the faults of their recent history.
Apparently, getting on TV makes one a big hero?
In short, criticizing China is fine, but you're completely ignorant on the subject, and one-sided in your attack.
"For the record, the problem is not merely the Chinese government; the problem is also the Chinese people."
Racist flamebait gets modded 'insightful'. I can only hope this is ignorance from people who've never travelled outside of their borders.
"Google generally acquiesces to the policies of Beijing"
Google acquieces to the policies of governments. It's because they make crap revolutionaries.
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
Suggestion for you: save up a few dollars and travel the world a bit. You will see how absolutely and completely not grounded in reality your post is.
At the risk of stating what is blatantly obvious to everybody else:
When you have no anwer.
Q: So why do the planets travel round the earth?
A: umm.. Because God put them there?
My PC crashed the other day, it must be possesed by an evil spirit, bring on the holy water and start praying.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Totally disagree with you for the genocide in Tibet. Since Qing Dynasty, about 300 years, the king in Tibet has to be selected an confirmed by the Emperor. There has been a Minister from the central goverment in Tibet since than. North America became the colony of England sice 17 century, and most native Indians were killed (about tens of millions by English and Americans. I am not sure whether this is called genocide in your history book.
6,000 monasteries were ruined...it was called the Cultural Revolution, and Tibet was not the only region affected. It irritates me that people put that in the "China is evil because they destroyed Tibetan monasteries" when in fact China is 'evil' because they destroyed religious and capitalist symbols throughout the nation. The world Agrees: Mao was a bastard.
No, but it pretty much was 40 years ago when, little more than a decade past their last civil war, Nixon began opening up relations with them.
and as opposed to USA they don't have a proven track record of aggression and meddling in other countries' affairs.
Wow, Yoko, do you still have that "Chairman Mao" tee-shirt?
It's hard to focus on intereference in other nations when your own nation is mired in one civil war after another. Meanwhile, their human rights record with their own people isn't exactly a shining beacon of grace.
"Ji bai" mean Penis.
Having lived in Ireland, England, Greece and America as well as been to numerous countries on holiday and working I can say he isn't wrong.
Different countries just do it a different way.
Question the US president the wrong way and your guaranteed you will never be able to again. Or take prehaps Ireland, free press here? Try finding the picture of Bush in the wifebeater.
I've been to China. It is pretty restrictive but the mindset is similar to America. They don't see the restrictions as it is hard to observe it when you are living in the situation.
Oh and Iraq abuse was reported long before the US broke it (The abuse happenend a good few months before it broke in the US). Generally US population think everything is "tinfoil hat" material unless they hear it from a US news source.
When you let people read that stuff without restriction, you're basically saying that it's ok.
By censoring it, they are saying that it is bad, and that if you do read it, it must be kept secret.
you are not incoherent, the jet lag has brought you enormous clarity
you are asserting a simple unfortunate fact: people want you to be perfect, but don't hold themselves to the same standards
in other words, they will criticize american nationalism vehemently... with words that betray their own local flavor of moronic nationalism
all nationalism is moronic, the only morally justifiable and intellectually honest pov on any problem in this world is a global pov
yet so many equate anti-americanism with liberalism
no: true liberalism is cosmopolitan and globally-oriented, and holds the usa and americans in no favorable or unfavorable light
so it is a shame that the positive liberal movements of decades past have been replaced with a general malaise of useless negativity and nationality-oriented way of looking at the world that calls itself liberalism, but is in fact more akin to the same sort of xenophobia and tribalism we traditionally associate with conservativism
being blindly pro-american is obviously stupid
what so many anti-americans don't see, buried as they are in their braindead propaganda, is that the mirror image of pro-americanism is not intelligence, it's just more stupidity
they need to free themselves from looking at the world throught the prism of nationalist povs before they can be considered true liberals
the truly intelligent in this world are neither pro nor anti-american
attaching the way you view the world to the usa, whether blindly pro, or blindly anti, is really the same thing in the end: an inability to see the whole world out there, with many cultures and peoples, and boiling it all down to one stupid paranoid conspiracy theory about how the usa is responsible for everything that happens in the world, especially the bad things
the world does not orbit the united states, but the belief that it does is as central to the assertions of anti-americans as it is to pro-americans
and they are both stupid
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The situation in the UK used to be different - the BBC was publicly funded and independent from government control. Recently, this independence has been called into question.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Did you spend that whole ten seconds throwing away karma just to point out the obvious?
you spelt baka wrong.
And having lived in the USA, UK, Malaysia, China (Guangzhou), Japan, Singapore, France, Spain, Canada, and Pakistan for a year or more each I know you are full of shit.
Consider:
Question the US president the wrong way and your guaranteed you will never be able to again.
Tin foil hat fitting snugly? Please provide some evidence of the people who come to your house at night and take you away. If your idea was in the remotest correct, the authors of the following website would all be fugitives: www.nytimes. The USA has the free-est press in the world, full stop. You might not like the speed or tone of the "big" news producers in the USA, but there are literally millions of alternatives out there and at the end of the day you're welcome to start your own blog and report what you will.
IN CHINA YOU WILL BE THROWN IN PRISON IF YOU DO THIS
I repeat: PRISON.
Not "oh the USA is the same as the chinese press because they broke some iraq story a bit later than i would have liked."
I repeat: PRISON. Think about this: probably half the opinion articles in the new york times would be censored in china and their authors ruined. Bloggists in china saying the same sort of thing that bloggers say routinely in the west might simply vanish.
Obviously you are an Anmerican.
> Consumerism does have it's pluses (it's keeps the
> masses of stupid, evil people busy buying crap
> instead of burning witches and whatnot
Maybe it's better to make that stupid evil people smarter and better than to make them buy crap?
*shrug* I Could of listed off all the countries as well, but it would seem like I was trying scoreboard by who went to the most countries. I can only assume when you mean living you never actually bothered to check into more about the country you were living in.
Full of shit? Hardly. UK for example, Stories about the royal family (eg. Charles gay incident) and Blair (eg. childs suicide bid) are routinely censored despite the tabloid nature of the press there.
Ireland censors stories too. For example electronic voting was cancelled in Ireland because it couldn't be proven to be reliable. What wasn't reported about (but mentioned in a dail hearing) was that the company that won the contract to supply the machines was an ex member of the current party in government who won the contract which was millions over expected cost, not the cheapest quote and the company only existed a few months after it was announced they were going to use the machines.
". The USA has the free-est press in the world, full stop."
Total BS, unless you mean free to lie. Just check out Media Matters to see how screwed up the US press is.Any press reporter asking the president a question he doesn't like and they won't be invited back or allowed ask a question again.
In some cases it even gets petty like Bush being interviewed by RTE who went on to tell RTE they would never be allowed interview Bush or anyone again because he was asked a question he couldn't answer.
"I repeat: PRISON."
I REPEAT *DIFFERENT WAYS*.
Just because you don't get thrown into prison doesn't mean you can't be screwed over in the US for reporting something that the administration or media don't want you to. The same applies for other countries as well.
The US is the only country I know where a News Channel can sue for the right to lie and win.
"literally millions of alternatives out there and at the end of the day you're welcome to start your own blog and report what you will."
Having alternatives doesn't mean that your press is free. Generally the alternatives you speak about are outside of the country in question. As for blogs, they are hardly media outlets. Certainly a place to start researching a story for yourself but I wouldn't put them that far above say Fox as reliable sources of information.
In this case, the answer, as usual, is sheer convenience to apply method A to cuba and B to china. For China is so big, no one can starve China but China itself but cuba is small and closer to the US mass. it is ideal to make an example of fighting communism here. Although everyone knows that cuba's military power can harm to the US, making them an enemy is perfectly convenient. Poverty and starvation in Cuba, who cares? Whitehouse does not have relatives there!
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
Google should simply put politically sensitive items along the top and bottom edges of the screen, where Chinese people can't see them.
You present options A and B as if they are the only choices with one really bad and the other obviously preferable.
Those aren't the only choices.
Attention all chinese. All your routing are belong to us. Stop beating on your keyboard, it is futile. Your government has blocked your access to google news, so be sure to come back to slashdot on a regular basis. We will keep you informed without bias. News for the day: your government sucks fuzzy lint balls off my hairy white yankee ass..so does mine. I bet you wish you could say that without getting run over by a tank in tiannamen square for it. Ha-ha I can....whoops,Gotta go - the ATF is he-*click*
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
The executives at Cisco and Yahoo should be torn from their offices, blindfolded, briefly tried, then hanged for crimes against humanity for having assisted the brutal PRC government with the oppression of its own people.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
They can't even read an article about them being censored!
Oh the irony...
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." Mark Twain.
If I may abuse the parallel, wasn't exactly this what France did to Nazi Germany? I mean, France won WW1 and they pushed the Versailles Treatise down German throats. One of its provisions was to make sure Germany would not develop a military force. After a while, Hilter began to restructure German armed forces. France knew this was happening and could enforce the Versailles Treatise but decided to step back and just warn Hitler. That's appeasement -- trying to use a peaceful and submissive solution for a big problem and is still getting bigger. After a while, abuses were beginning to show up, but France thought if they just pointed the errors, eventually Hilter would stop with it. Nope.
So, lets see what would be a more realistic Method c (given the situation described in Method b): China actually becomes a huge, immense trade partner and begins to realize its own importance and start to push Chinese values into the world.
For example, the US has pushed democracy and freedom (with varying degrees of success) into other countries. China finds this unnecessary or obsolete and starts to preach that such liberties should be restrained.
Another Chinese value: attitude towards press. The US also find important important to have a free press -- a sine qua non condition for a working democracy. Since China determined that democracy actually hurts their commercial interests worldwide (see previous paragraph), China uses its influence to restrain press.
Let's get this straight: Method b is naive. If China gets the opportunity to use its newly found economic - and military - power to interfere in other countries to get away from the risk of being subject to sanctions mentioned in Method b, they will do. The US has been doing this since WW2, the argument to convince American opinion was that something - any perceived threat - from other countries could mess up with the American Way of Life. I also do not remember one single occasion when the US was threatened by an economic sanction.
The UK did it (defend its interests) during Industrial Revolution. France did this with Napoleon and his Continental Blockade. Heck, even Romans did it.
Expect China to protect firecely its Chinese Way of Life and to export it, eventually.
Nick, I think you're wrong also. You keep equating government censorship with free choices made by individuals or companies.
Please name the "wrong way" to question the US president. And exactly what are the consequences you're implying? I don't think you mean not being allowed back into a presidential press conference, so what are you saying?
Blogs usually are commentary, but that doesn't mean they can't do real reporting.
In your closed view, it seems that nowhere in the world is a press that reports the things you think are important.
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"Please name the "wrong way" to question the US president. And exactly what are the consequences you're implying? I don't think you mean not being allowed back into a presidential press conference, so what are you saying?"
Stop being so paranoid! He is saying exactly that. The press fear losing access, and self-censor because the government does not like critisism.
Surur
Information is the location of things. Computation is moving things around.
" I'm currently posting this on a brief vacation to Baku, Azerbaijan. Do you know where that is (without looking at a map)?"
No. I live in Chealsea, MI, USA. Do you know where that is (without looking at a map)?
"it seems that nowhere in the world is a press that reports the things you think are important."
Certainly not. I would say there are plenty of places. They just tend not to be in the country in question.
Because there's no other rational explanation for totalitarian apologia like this:
China is a sovereign nation.
And so was Nazi Germany, yet no one with any sense believes that gave them the moral authority to commit genocide. Neither does China's sovreign status give it the moral authority to kill protestors, run forced labor camps and imprison, torture and kill its citizens who object to its politics.
It doesn't take much more than a second grade education to figure this out, yet people like you believe that the thge US social and political system must reach some historically unprecedented level of perfection before we can criticize brutal totalitarian regeimes like China.
Get a sense of perspective.
Your info about the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade seems alittle odd... where did you hear this?
Well..then you already have decided they're evil.
More likely, I think its a matter of scale. The generaly populace will complain if stuff gets cracked down too hard on.
'The Party' which rules China is made up of chinese. There are no(few) cultural/race/clan differences to justify how 'the others' are evil and should be prosecuted. They simple won't get the consesus needed to go after people too harshly.
As sidenote, I frankly wonder if there is a larger difference between the general populaces opinions on politics and what the politicians actually do in the western world than in China (see European support for Iraq war for example).
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
Shouting out loud doesn't mean you are right I'm afraid.
No one argues the US has better freedom of expression than China, and I'm all for freedom of expression. However that doesn't entitle you or any US citizen the moral highground. I guess your opposite has a more balanced view and insight into the reality of press freedom.
Putting dissents into prison is a method that has limited effect and won't last. It can only silence the voice for a while, however, at the price of making the government more dissents than they can possibly make prisons to accommondate. That has been proven repeatedly in history. The CCP also knows it. They won't be doing this for long. As things have already changed so much, I have reason to expect the situation will continue to change to the better. Before criticising the political reality in China, please bare in mind that it used to be much much worse 20, or even 10 years ago and that China has only enjoyed growing freedom in its economy system for less than the length of Vietnam War. I'm not saying the CPP government should not be criticised, but it certainly takes a more balanced view to criticise them to the point.
On the other hand, in the US, the government may not have direct control over the media, but the money behind both the two parties certainly has the most sophisticated control of the press. The mass just lives happily with what they are fed with. Few is aware of the wrong doings of their government. Even less is concerned with what their mighty military power is used for. Most Americans just don't care what's happening in the world, they just obsessed with themselves, thanks to the side effect of US-style press freedom.
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
No one believes that statement anymore, except Americans.
>> "Here's a page which talks about Jasper becker's book Hungry Ghosts, which covers how farm collectivization during Mao's "Great Leap Forward" resulted in the death of some 30-60 million of your countrymen." > We already know. In fact, everyone knows. But what the fuck is anyone going to do about it? The Communist government in China has progress a lot over the last 30 years. Sure, it's not exactly a democracy, but take a good think about American and Europe around the last turn of century. Does everyone know? Not the chinese I've met. In fact they believe it's a definete lie. >>"Here's a page which discusses the genocide rsulting from China's invasion of Tibet, where "over 17 percent of the Tibetan people killed, and 6,000 monasteries ruined." >Did you know that Tibet practises slavery? Which, incidentally, is illegal in China, and has been for well over the century and bit that the corresponding laws have existed in America. And... that's a good reason to kill more that 17% of the tibetan people? >The other two points, I'll concede, however, they are not entirely without reason either. China cannot afford to go all democratic right now, or else you'll get another break up of the Soviet Union on the world's hands. Except this time you can have 1.4 billion people instead of a few hundred million. I'll have to agree on that one. >This, incidentally, is also why the government is so hard on not allowing Tibet to leave China, and to keep Taiwan -- if one exception is made, where do you stop? The thing is... why do you want to keep regions of China within the country, if they do not want to? I think you should NOT stop - let regions leave if they want to. Why not? Why does it have to be one big country? I'm from the EU. I believe we should stick together, all european countries, but if there's a country where the population does not want to - let them. Just like China should get the fuck out of Tibet, and forget about Taiwan. Leave them the fuck alone!!! >>"Freedom starts with you." >Freedom is not all that it's cracked up to be. It's all very well for those who have always had food and homes to say that they'd rather starve or die than give up their "freedom". Hunger and poverty can make you see things another way. Until China is strong enough, politically and economically to not be bossed around by America (unlike the rest of the world) don't expect any changes. Freedom IS all that! And much more! What we've seen in Europe is that we weren't able to get rid of most starvation and poverty before we got rid of the dictators. >Final word -- people in China know about what the government is doing -- propaganda has kinda been done to death by the old Communist government. Chinese these days are a very cynical and skeptical bunch, but just about everyone agrees that the current state and progression of China is as good as it can be, given historical circumstances and external factors. I can only judge by the chinese I've talked to myself - and that's not the picture I get. I hope you're right, though.
-- A good compromise leaves everyone mad. --Calvin and Hobbes
He might be vague, but he's telling the truth and is not offending anybody.
You can say the problem with the American government is the American people, and guess what.... THAT WOULD BE PERFECTLY ACCURATE.
Besides, when did the Chinese become a race? China is a political entity that includes many races.
But given that your knee is jerking hard, that subtlety probably escapes you.
I wish you well as a future purveryor of fried beef on buns and fried potatoes sliced thinly. You might want to learn the word "supersize".
"Which country consumes the most resources?
Which country pollutes the most ?"
Which country pollutes less per unit of anything produced? America.
"Which country kills the most people?"
Regarding capital punishment, China kills more in one year than the US has in the last century. Drug dealers mostly.
China decides that it doesn't want to hold American debt anymore and demands repayment on its dollar holdings.
Result - the US becomes an impoverished country that nobody wants to deal with anymore, especially after OPEC decides that they are going to price oil in Euros or Renimbi
Who want China to wake up? Can you imagine if they did? Poor walmart, they would be in trouble...
photoplankton
Full of shit? Hardly. UK for example, Stories about the royal family (eg. Charles gay incident) and Blair (eg. childs suicide bid) are routinely censored despite the tabloid nature of the press there.
Hmmm. I read about 'Blair-child-bid' on Slashdot first; did some research and it seems to be a readily accepted urban legend; first posting about it on chatrooms are months in advance of now taken-as-fact 'exam stress' bid this May. Charles gay? Who cares?
Which brings us to ideas about the responsibilities of the press, as well as their rights. This secondary issue is about libel. In UK and Ireland, the burden of proof is on the news source in any libel trial. This is reversed in the US. Which is why the National Enquirer et al. flourish there, and why UK newspapers employ so many lawyers over here. Which is a better system?
The real reason things aren't covered is the former in the 'cock-up versus conspiracy' debate. Most stories aren't considered news-worthy because either people aren't bothered about them (why? is the real question) or it's a pain in the arse for the journos to cover, e.g. compare the coverage of tropical-cyclone related stories in Florida this autumn compared with China (thousands dead in landslides from typhoons) or the Caribbean (3 000 dead in Dominican Reublic from Jeanne).
Maybe they should start blocking AIRLINE RESERVATION sites.. The question to be asked is HOW MENY CHINESE ARE AFRAID of their own government? Will they come and shoot me in my head for opening my mouth? And If i asked a chinese person if they care about not being able to access googlenews.. the answer would be no. Which according to the goverment is the correct answer.
-- I Dont Deserve A Sig I Have Bad Karma
Maybe they should start blocking AIRLINE RESERVATION sites.. The question to be asked is HOW MENY CHINESE ARE AFRAID of their own government? Will they come and shoot me in my head for opening my mouth? And If i asked a chinese person if they care about not being able to access googlenews.. the answer would be no. Which according to the goverment is the correct answer.
-- I Dont Deserve A Sig I Have Bad Karma
... The Chinese helpfully stepped in, and began relaying signals via the transmitter on embassy grounds. ...
Uh, care to back that up with any reliable source?
Tyranny isn't the worst enemy of a democracy. Cynicism is.
I haven't decided anything, honestly. I'm just a cynic. Since outgoing information from China seems to be as or nearly as well-filtered as incoming info is TO China, I don't see much that suggests they AREN'T evil.
Who cares? We are quite pompous and self-righteous claiming that liberty and freedom of information should be a basic human right, yet, we live in a *very* censored society. No, its not our 'govt' that censors our news (surely there is official spin, but, its still different) - its our 'free enterprise' system. Walt Disney corporation controls the news outlets related to ABC, Billy-Boy-Gates has hands on NBC... c'mon, lets wake up and be real here, our news media is very actively managed and pre-digested by commercial 'sensitivities', and on the whole we *like* it that way. Otherwise, a different news channel would arise to meet the market 'needs'. Seems to me, that the Chinese must LIKE it their way too. That sentiment is even furthered by my travels in China - I walked around and spoken with ppl (had a native Chinese translator to accompany me - no, not a govt minder).
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
The fact you equate China to the united states shows why most Americans would rather not watch the BBC.
-- "of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
I'm not the paranoid one, confusing being thrown in prison with being denied access is paranoia. Not being allowed into a presidential press conference is not censorship. An attending reporter doesn't get to ask everything they want, that still isn't censorship. The whole thing goes out on CSPAN or other news feeds. Losing access isn't censorship.
Take a reality pill.
The question isn't What's wrong with it, it's What's right with it. Why is the Chinese government (allegedly) blocking a news source like Google? A) Because a freely informed Chinese citizenry is a threat to its autocratic rulers, B) Chinese citizens aren't demanding to exercise their right to free press:
/. is bad for Chinese power? Blocked. "Oh, that's OK, I've got 100 others!", but then they start blocking sites by content, automatically and you have nothing left that is critical of the Chinese government.
"Article 35 [of Chinese Constitution]. Freedom of speech, press, assembly
Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration."
http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/ch00000_.html
Now, even if it wasn't in your constitution, it would still be a right, should you choose to exercise it. Ironically, even if it's in your constitution and you don't choose to exercise it, it's as though you don't have it.
You list a dozen sights above. What happens when the next site posts news critical of the Chinese government? Blocked. Or if some lame ass ministry official reads this post and decides
Then you get to relearn the lesson that it's better to include dissent in a civil forum than exclude it to the underground, which, coupled with the inevitable corruption of government without public criticism, leads to bloody revolution. You'd have thought China had enough of that for a while.
Get your head out of your naive nationalistic ass, read some world history and use some common sense.
"Article 35 [of Chinese Constitution]. Freedom of speech, press, assembly
Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration."
http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/ch00000_.html
A vacation in Azerbaijan?? I bet you are there for reasons other then vacation.. perhaps you are a missionary or are volunteering there to provide aid? Though personally I am intrigued by the country myself, mostly from light bit of research I've done on it.
;) But I blame VALVE for that.
"Local scientists consider the Abseron Yasaqligi (Apsheron Peninsula) (including Baku and Sumqayit) and the Caspian Sea to be the ecologically most devastated area in the world because of severe air, soil, and water pollution; soil pollution results from oil spills, from the use of DDT as a pesticide, and from toxic defoliants used in the production of cotton" (source)
And here's another beauty:
"Towns once located on the coast are now as far as fifty miles away from the shoreline, the salinity of the water is heavily increased, and the fishing industry is destroyed. As if these problems were not enough, the receding sea is beginning to expose a land bridge to an island used by the Soviet Union for chemical and biological agent testing. Although the facility is closed, the remains of lab equipment had been simply buried and could become easily accessible." (source)
I also read somewhere that they fear animals will/are making their way accross that land bridge and becoming infected with the agents in the facility and possibly spreading the agents amongst the local wildlife and people. Can't find that article now though but in any case be on the lookout while you are over there!
Or maybe you are over there looking for the true location of CITY 17? Thats how my fascination with Azerbaijan began anyways.
And yes I knew where Baku was without looking at a map
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
CNN wrote about it. Look near the bottom for the juicy stuff:
"This island is definitely a potential time bomb, because the shrinking of the sea and the likely emergence within a few years of a land bridge to the mainland and the possibility that insects and rodents, carrying deadly diseases, could cross over and infect the local population," Tucker said.
:(
The article is a little over 5 years old.. so uhm. Be on the lookout
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
Any day now, I'm sure that George Bush will announce our intention to invade China and liberate the people from their oppression, just like we did for Iraq. Then we will install a democratic government that...
What? They have a well armed military?
Nevermind.
Just a little clarification.
While much of the sentiment following the bombing was a genuine expression of emotion from many Chinese, it was only encouraged and exacerbated by the government.
Chinese university students were bussed in by the government to where the US Embassy and consulates were located, and encouraged to violently protest. The result was a damaged embassy and a severely damaged consulate in Chengdu.
The government would certainly never allow any sort of protest it didn't approve of 100% and the opinions of anyone who didn't agree with the protests were not alowed publically.
$45 per U Colocation Special
You could argue that some suffering is a mental construct within the sufferer's minds. But some suffering is obviously material and physical. People who get abducted, imprisoned, tortured or gang-raped are clearly suffering physically--not just in their heads.
Yes it's a value judgement to say that the people/organizations/governments that cause this suffering are evil. But most reasonable people would agree with the judgement--nobody in their right mind wants to be treated like that!
The real problem with "evil" (as I found out by taking a first year Religious Studies course called "the Nature of Evil") is that it usually isn't done by individuals.
When an individual person can be singled out as directly responsible for heinous acts (e.g. Hitler) then it is easy to judge them as an Evil person.
But who is to blame for the systematic mistreatment of poor people (especially poor minorities) by capitalist, democratic societies such as the U.S.? Who is to blame for building waste incinerators in poor black neighborhoods, resulting in 30% of the neighborhood kids having asthma? Who is to blame for government corruption, misuse of large databases of personal information, or censoring of web sites in China?
Often things happen which are clearly evil in their nature, but not attributable to any one person. It's a "product of the system". Is the system evil? How is it that a basically good *institution* (such as capitalism, or democracy) can have these evil side effects?
Partial answer: all institutions, regardless of the purpose for which they were created, have a tendency to take on an additional purpose of *self-preservation*. When the FBI agitates for new laws that will help the FBI investigate, it is not just that they are trying to fulfill their primary function better--it is *also* that they are doing what is best for the FBI's survival and relevance, by expanding its scope and power.
You see this "mandate creep" among a lot of government institutions, and you can see how corporations have taken "make money for our stockholders" to such an extreme that a lot of the actions of the corporation (viewed through the proper lens) appear to have "evil" results.
So the key to reducing the Evil in the world is not to pick on specific individuals (like Saddam), even though that is sometimes a good idea. The real key is to identify an Evil effect that some institution is having (such as poverty, an effect of capitalism) and figure out a way to counteract the effect (perhaps by modifying the system--socialism?).
I'm glad I'm a gamma!
"Journalist Cited for Contempt in Leak Probe - Reporter Refused To Discuss Sources"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar
The article is not referring to Chinese pigs in China. The article is referring to Chinese pigs in the USA. Safe and comfy in the good ole USA, the Chinese students held demonstrations condemning the USA. On the matter of Tibet, there is not even a peep.
Chinese pigs? You be the judge.
Get the facts. Here is a summary of the facts. By the way, that web site that you slandered draws all its information from Western sources: "Los Angeles Times", "Asia Week", "Wall Street Journals", etc. You lying Taiwanese filth.
1. The Taiwanese deliberately and conscientiously tell both Japan and the Philippines to back off from the Spratly Islands and the Senkaku Islands. The Taiwanese say that these Islands are Chinese terroritory. (Taiwanese liar says, "Beijing put a gun to my head. That's why I am doing this.")
2. The Taiwanese deliberately invested more than $100 billion into mainland China and voluntarily made Taiwan dependent on mainland China. (Taiwanese liar says, "Beijing put a gun to my head. That's why I am doing this.")
3. Mainland China is now the 2nd most popular destination for Taiwanese emigration, after the West. (Taiwanese liar says, "Beijing put a gun to my head. That's why I am doing this.")
4. The Taiwanese insist that Tibet is part of "One China". Note that Beijing does not insist that outer Mongolia is part of "One China", but the Taiwanese insist that outer Mongolia is part of "One China". The Taiwanese education system teaches Chinese classics and insists that Tibet is part of "One China". (Taiwanese liar says, "Beijing put a gun to my head. That's why I am doing this.")
The Taiwanese bigot is correct about one thing: American policy toward Taiwan is a relic of the Cold War. We Americans should terminate relations with Taiwan.
Pardon me, but the Taiwanese seem to be morally bankrupt. In 1984, the Taiwanese government was and still is the only foreign government to ever commit a successful assassination in the USA.
And read the FAQ for yourself.
you really mean Bush, Chenny, and the people in control of our political affairs right? Because i am not for shutting out the rest of the world and neither are many Americans. I am all for clearing out all the corruption bullshit (that is why i dont support Bush or Kerry), and so are many Americans. Organized religion is what i hate more than anything, But how many bills are passed through that have to pertain to religious ideas; We did not ban gay marrage and we still have abortion. And true democracy cannot work because we have too many dumbasses that cant even read in our country. Just think if they chose the prettiest face to vote for? We need some regulation. So dont blame Americans for the problem, because most of us are not for all these things that you said we do, its just the people that are stupid and decide to say something.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. - Catcher in the Rye
The other "reason" I heard is that the Chinese had bought part of the F-117(?) that went down and were storing it in the embassy. In any event I found it interesting that they hit the intelligence section of the embassy.
between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
All you need to do is "travel", and you will "learn the reality of the world".
Fucking hilarious, dude. And yes, we can tell you're not an American...
If widespread deaths engender a middle class then why didn't the USSR (27+ million dead) generate a huge middle class?
Obviously it was culture.
There are many factors that affect the standard of living of a nation at large - to dismiss one in favor of war deaths (?!?) is lazy and irresponsible reasoning.
As for your comments:
1) Plenty of other countries in the area claim the spratly islands, as you have said. Nothing new here.
2) So has Hong Kong and hordes of western democracies.
3) That's where the jobs are, duh.
4) We already know why Taiwan has to do this. Your attampt to twist this to fit your political view will not work.
No doubt you'd like the now-democratic Taiwan to be swallowed whole by the same totatalitarian government you claim to hate. But that's ok because it's not your pet cause.
As proof of Dalai Lama's close ties with Taiwan: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03 /30/dalailama.taiwan/index.html
There is much more information from credible news sources to refute your source: a hack reporter with his website.
As long as you post as AC or resort to name calling we'll assume you're a nutjob or in the pay of CCP.
That's rich.
The U.S. Press is not on the level of China (yet), you are very mistaken if you believe that we have a free press in the true sense. Look for stories about voting irregularities in the 2004 presidential election, war protest, or potentialy disastrous results of our current fiscal policy on the large media outlets like FOX. Also, check out:
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/
Your government has told you that you are not allowed to read a news site, and you don't mind? And you think that everyone else has their "head in the sand?" That's astounding... I'm not trying to be insulting, but do you honestly not see the problem? What if your government told you that you could no longer use the Internet at all? Would you just say "I can always pick up a newspaper. I don't think I'm missing anything."
...set up a webpage which diffs the stories from each targeted google news variant and lists just the diffs... sort of a "what China doesn't want you to know" page.
Is it just me, or has this article already run on /.
Maybe I'm getting an odd case of Deja Vu, does anyone else remember this?
Anonymous Coward
No. You open your eyes and re-read my post. You're reacting -in anger- to things which I did not say.
I do not believe in forcing the redistribution of property and wealth. I do not believe that collectivist government is in anybody's best interest. I do not believe that government is in anybody's best interest except those in government. I believe it is wrong to force my beliefs on somebody else; To remove choice. To do so is selfish. It is the essence of, 'Me First'. Given those beliefs, how on earth do you presume to call me a jackass for the reasons you give?
And this is why I say it comes down to definitions. We obviously believe several of the same things, but use different words. Your anger is misplaced, undue and reactionary.
I know my history, and I know how totalitarian movements arise. 'Me-Firsters' render such systems impossible, and so there is no point in trying to build them. I am responsible for myself only, and I will treat people with respect and I will share my resources with them if they are also respectful people who are willing to share their resources. This is not a model for government, this is a model for a successful life. I have many friends, and I have become a respected member of my community. I will not con or mistreat anybody, I take pride in the fact that I am trust worthy and giving. People treat me with the same considerations in return.
Adopting liberal behavior, -not being a greedy me first child- has benefited me and my community tremendously, and I wholeheartedly recommend it to everybody.
As for the U.S. being "far and away better than most of the rest of the world". . . Anybody who believes that has, A) Never traveled anywhere. B) Is over-simplifying at best and downright ignorant at worst, and either way should not be lecturing anybody on history. C) Is not on the business end of the U.S. plunger.
During Hitler's most prolific years, the overwhelming majority of Germans also believed their nation was the best thing in the world. Hitler was democratically voted into office.
-FL
I wonder how he'd feel having Natalie Portman pouring hot grits and rice down his steel underpants.
China is no longer just 'a third world country', and as opposed to USA they don't have a proven track record of aggression and meddling in other countries' affairs.
*cough* Tibet *cough*
free speach
Did you mean: free speech
I'm in China and read (past tense) google news regularly until about 3 weeks ago. One day it dissappeared. I'm suffering from withdrawal. 3 painful weeks without googlenews. does anyone know of other news aggregators that are similar? can anyone come up with any way I'd be able to read my google news? help me, please. please.
Well I wonder if "elgooG" will be able to help the poor old rice pickers.
/. crowd already know about this.
http://www.alltooflat.com/geeky/elgoog/
For those that don't know elgoog is literally a mirror (not in the true sense, but in the image and text sense) of Google, everything is backwards, when you search you even have to type your search in backwards.
However I'm sure most of you
Sadly I couldn't seem to connect, maybe China sent a few nukes to the address of the server.
Two great replies in the last few minutes here.
Really, I do. Smooch.
Because acussing 'liberals' of supporting a dictatorship IS flamebait. They don't.
Look up what liberalism means.
Ummm.. The "Los Angeles Times" is twisted? I don't think so. It states clearly that, after the West, the 2nd most popular destination for Taiwanese emigration is mainland China.
Like Taiwan, Hong Kongers have made their island economically dependent on mainland China. Indeed, a 1997 CNN/Time poll states that more than 60% of the Hong Kongers enthusiastically supported unification with mainland China.
The Taiwanese bigots claim that Beijing put a gun to their heads to force them to repeatedly claim that both the Spratley Islands and the Senkaku Islands are Chinese territory Do you folks believe this claim?
The Taiwanese bigots claim that Beijing put a gun to their heads to force them to invest more than $100 billion into more than 100,000 businesses in mainland China. Do you folks believe this claim?
I do not believe any of these claims. The Taiwanese could easily stop claiming that Tibet is part of "One China", but the Taiwanese refuse to do so.
Note that the Dalai Lama also has good relations with Russia and a number of other countries. Nonetheless, they claim that Tibet is part of "One China" just like Taiwan.
What is egregious and disgusting is that the Taiwanese continue to claim that Tibet is part of "One China" even while the Taiwanese bigots don't want to be ruled by Beijing. You tell me about hypocrisy and bigotry. God damn those Taiwanese.
Troll.
It means (literally)
Fuck your mother, Pussy!
Is why Google would place an alternate site up. Sure they want all teh CHinese to visit them but today the Communists block one thing tomorrow it's something else.
Subject:
:-) - their motto for the 10 year jubilee yesterday has been "Web of Meaning, Web on Everything, Web for Everyone"
China's censorship in the internet - using the example news
Thesis:
An accessibility of news can be made possible
Suggestion 1:
eMule-like news network.
Suggestion 2:
PHP-Homepages (which are always worked up on the server side and so can access all IPs; as long as they are not located in China) which shows the blocked sites, while changing the links inside to make sure they are not linked over the blocked site but over the PHP script which again shows the contents of the linked side.
These equal built sites are randomly linked by a central side to distribute the traffic.
Problems:
- a possibility has to be found, that the IP of the central side will change regulary (weekly?/daily?) to prevent a blocking of this side - and above all: the current IP has to be distributed accordingly
- if it is also searched for special strings in IP packages further measures will be needed
Possible solutions:
- on DSL-Dial-In-Connections the IPs in any case change daily and there will be no additional costs for the PHP sites
- distribution of the IPs via IRC (according key words for the inquiries will be found) or hide IPs on harmless sides in pictures (Brabbas?) -
spreading these adresses 'mouth-to-mouth' (GnuPG?)
- strings could be changed using simple methods as changing the order of the charcters, 'Caesar deferral' or similar simple (= easy to do for everyone but too much afford for the control of every IP package) methods
The second suggestion should be easy enough to implement, so who is the first to write the script?
Btw:
Doing something for free access to the internet for everyone should be even W3C-compliant
I lag
Were you schooled in the PRC?
Ask any of China's neighbors what "People's Liberation Army" means to them. They've fought against and/or "liberated" land from Vietnam, Tibet (and India after invading Tibet), East Turkestan, Soviet Russia, ("Inner") Mongolia and Korea.
They're keeping both Tibetans and Uighurs under genocidal military occupations to exploit their natural resources. Isn't annexing one's peaceful smaller neighbors and systematically destroying their culture and national identity a crime at the level of those Stalin conducted
They continue propping up brutal dictatorships in both North Korea and Burma and supported the Khmer Rouge's murdering of large proportion of Cambodian population.
They also helped Pakistan to build nuclear missiles and to proliferate missile technology.
They're also supporting numerous Central Asian dictatorships under the guise of "war on terror", to kill and capture Uighurs seeking to end the Chinese occupation or just escaping from it.
Tell me again that "China doesn't have a proven track record of aggression and meddling in other countries' affairs".
It has nothing to do with whether you think that some story has been undercovered or whether, as some other poster wrote, you think that journalists spend too much time writing sensationalist nonsense rather than going after the "real stories."
The test of whether there is a free press is the question of whether you can write on whatever topic you want and publish it for all to read. That defines whether there is a free press. In the USA, to a MUCH higher degree in China, you can.
Your "(yet)" was also paranoid delusional nonsense.
Somehow alike several other large countries nowadays :-)
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
Were the chinese ever under threat of complete extinction as people?
What percentage of chinese population perished under the Japanese invasion?
Now compare this to the "People's Liberation Army's" total invasion and annexation of Tibet, where the wholly un-chinese Tibetan language, culture, religion and national identity are being wiped out by the chinese army. Well over million Tibetans have died under chinese oppression, leaving a population of under 2 1/2 million in the chopped up mini-Tibet to cope with the growing influx of chinese settlers.
Tibetan natural resources are also being appropriated by the chinese occupiers at a growing rate.
So while I agree that the Japanese invasion of China was a massive crime against humanity, how do you justify the massive and unapologetically ongoing crimes against the Tibetan people?
And please don't bring up that tired crap about ancient chinese god-kings having made treaties on paper claiming that pretty much the whole world was the divine possession of the chinese god-kings as a justification for the modern-day chinese genocide of their in-every-way-different neighboring state.
If the chinese were truly peace-loving and abhorred foreign invasions, it would be reasonable to withdraw the occupation army from Tibet and apologize profoundly for the crimes that China has committed there over the past half century. Perhaps then the Japanese leaders would find it impossible not to beg forgiveness from the Chinese people over the crimes that Japan committed there over fifty years ago.