Thunderbird and Firefox Ported to SkyOS

SkyOS by conteXXt · 2004-12-23 01:03 · Score: 4, Funny

dollars to doughnuts it will be plagued with viruses as soon as they hook it up to SKYNET.

We are all doomed.

--
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on /. (Karma suicide ensues)

Re:SkyOS by jaredbpd · 2004-12-23 01:17 · Score: 1

The problem with SKYNET wasn't viruses (virii?). It was self awareness and an intense desire for self preservation.
Re:SkyOS by ExKoopaTroopa · 2004-12-23 01:41 · Score: 1

FYI Skynet (http://www.skynet.be/) is Belgium's main ISP

--
Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do!
Re:SkyOS by jaredbpd · 2004-12-23 05:15 · Score: 1

Ah, it's a localization problem. When I hear SKYNET, the first thing I think of is those Terminator movies.
Re:SkyOS by fm6 · 2004-12-23 05:34 · Score: 1

If I recall the "plot" of T3, Skynet used viruses to distribute itself throughout cyberspace, thus rendering itself immune to physical attack. But then, it went and started a nuclear war that would have destroyed the electronic infrastructure it was distributed through. A very irritating plot contradiction.
Offtopic grammar fascism rant: the rule I like best for dealing with the -us, -i issue goes as follows. Few people really know Latin grammar, so it's silly to try to inflect every Latin-derived word according to the rules that Julius Caesar would have used. In a few cases, the original Latin inflection is the one that everybody knows, so you say "agenda" and "data", not "agendums" and "datums". But for everything else, you save yourself trouble and (a particular point for technical writers) make your prose clearer by sticking with simple English inflections.
Where this falls down is the weird anxiety everybody seems to have to honor some ultimate notion of correctness. So whenever they see a word that ends with -us -- or even a word that ends with an "es" sound, they go back into High School English mode and flounder about. Sometimes the result is just unnecessarily pretentious ("styli" instead of "styluses"). Sometimes you end up making obscure mistakes that old Julius would have laughed at ("octopus" is Greek, not Latin, so the "correct" plural is "octopods"). And sometimes you end up imposing pseudo-Latin rules on words that have always used English inflections -- as with the Buffy fans who keep asking each other "What's the plural of apocalypse?"
So chill out everybody. You speak your own language better than you think you do!
Re:SkyOS by Frizzle+Fry · 2004-12-24 07:00 · Score: 1

And even if the plural of virus were formed by turning -us into -i, that would yield viri, not virii.

--
I'd rather be lucky than good.

Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Kjella · 2004-12-23 01:04 · Score: 2, Informative

I tried going to SkyOS to find out WTF it is, down already? Anyone else care to tell me why this OS is of any relevance?

Kjella

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by conteXXt · 2004-12-23 01:06 · Score: 1, Funny

I am waiting for Arnie to come and explain it and blow some stuff up.

--
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on /. (Karma suicide ensues)
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by NetNifty · 2004-12-23 01:06 · Score: 5, Informative

Mirror here.

--
Linux Wireless Hardware in the UK
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Kiryat+Malachi · 2004-12-23 01:07 · Score: 1, Insightful

Anyone else care to tell me why this OS is of any relevance?

Simple answer:

It isn't.

--

---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Megane · 2004-12-23 01:11 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, their main page doesn't tell much about what SkyOS actually is. And of course none of the links from their main page have been cached.
So again, WTF is SkyOS anyhow? Is it just another Linux distro or what?

--
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by vchira · 2004-12-23 01:11 · Score: 1

Sky os is a comercial OS. It's a pure desktop OS vwith a lot of feature i hope. 99% of development it's done by 1 programmer. I am a betta tester and i can tell you that it looks really good.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Daniel+Ellard · 2004-12-23 01:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

I tried going to SkyOS to find out WTF it is, down already?
Search engines are your friends...
Anyone else care to tell me why this OS is of any relevance?
Because someone has the gumption to put together their own OS. This is how linux got started. Maybe it's irrelevant, or maybe it's not, but you've got to respect the attempt.

--
Disclaimer: I work for a company, but I don't speak for them.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:24 · Score: 0

I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny or serious. Either way, please don't breed.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by richie2000 · 2004-12-23 01:25 · Score: 2, Funny

I am a betta tester and i can tell you that it looks really good.
I don't suppose it has a spell checker?

--
Money for nothing, pix for free
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Daniel+Ellard · 2004-12-23 01:27 · Score: 1

Two words: spel chekcer

--
Disclaimer: I work for a company, but I don't speak for them.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:28 · Score: 0

i hate OSS
Wow, I bet you're going to come up with some excellent arguments here. You feel a strong negative emotion towards an abstraction.
opensource takes jobs away
Bzzzt! Wrong. Not where I live. OSS creates jobs. Maybe you spent your time supporting Windows systems and got canned when your company switched to a solution that required less support and happened to be OSS?
software developers gota eat too you know
Software developer here. Writing OSS. Getting paid for writing it and also getting paid for setting it up to deliver services which people pay for. (Hint: consumers/clients don't care about ideology - they care about service. If you want them to pay you - give it to them!)
Also, keep in mind that people tend to hire staff that can spel or buy from vendors that use proper gramar in their communication, aight?
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Jorrit · 2004-12-23 01:29 · Score: 1

Bah, how can you say that OSS developers that help with linux take jobs away? Linux wouldn't have existed if it wasn't OSS. So the fact that linux even exists is a tribute to OSS.

You make it sound as if free software and programming for nothing is bad. Well I have a surprise for you. It is actually the other way around in most cases!

Greetings,

--
Project Manager of Crystal Space (http://www.crystalspace3d.org). Support CS at http://tinyurl.com/cb3x4
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Zachary+Kessin · 2004-12-23 01:31 · Score: 1

Somehow I don't think SkyOS would be the next big thing even without linux/bsd. The problem is not Linux, its Microsoft. While windows can be a right pain in the but, is SkyOS so much better to warrent change? I don't think it could be. The problem is for a non free software OS to take of it would have to be supported by a company that can out microsoft microsoft. Even IBM with its huge resources wasn't able to do that with OS/2.

--
Erlang Developer and podcaster
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by vchira · 2004-12-23 01:32 · Score: 0

you know that the big bucks are done by selling software to the masses..don't tell me that the big b usiness is in installing and configuring linux coze it's not. we gotta close all OSS projects down... for our own good. Every piece of software that is written in spare time and has a GNU licence means some jobs somewhere in the world will go down..just because the IT managers just look at the price. you can't compete with FREE..
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by gorre · 2004-12-23 01:32 · Score: 1

He's trolling, take a look at his post history: he has only posted in this story and all full of obvious spelling mistakes and silly statements about Free/Open Source Software.

--
"Madness is something rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by vchira · 2004-12-23 01:34 · Score: 0

everytime somone says something agains OSS a bunch of school boys start to flame...earn some bucks boys than you'll see what I mean.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by djdavetrouble · 2004-12-23 01:36 · Score: 2, Funny

Apparently they need to port Apache as well

--
music lover since 1969
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by ExKoopaTroopa · 2004-12-23 01:45 · Score: 1

But firefox and quake2 aside, what can it actually run ??? Me thinks you need a better reason to build your own OS than "it's not Windows", else it will only be playing catch up with all other existing os's

--
Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do!
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:49 · Score: 0

Another amazing product of the European "education" systems.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Jorrit · 2004-12-23 01:55 · Score: 1

I write software professionally (an in-house program for a university hospital) and I also write free software. So I do know what I am talking about.

Greetings,

--
Project Manager of Crystal Space (http://www.crystalspace3d.org). Support CS at http://tinyurl.com/cb3x4
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by fewnorms · 2004-12-23 02:01 · Score: 1

From the FAQ on the skyOS.org site:

1. What is SkyOS?
The Sky Operating System, or SkyOS, is an operating system written for x86-based personal computers. SkyOS was created in 1996 by Robert Szeleney as a small bootloader. In the past 8 years, SkyOS has evolved into a full-featured, modern operating system, with a goal to be the easiest to use desktop operating system available for the average computer user. The development staff has also increased to include business, software, and graphics developers.

2. Is SkyOS a Linux distribution? Is SkyOS a *nix? Is SkyOS BeOS?
No, no, and no. SkyOS is an operating system written from scratch. It isn't based on any other operating system.

The odd thing is that I did see the mention of them using DLL's for instance, and a screenshot which was apparently showing a text editor had a piece of code open in which something called MSCORLIB was being used. It might mean nothing, as the screenshot is titled " Security configuration and DotGNU (.NET)" and afaik MSCORLIB is a part of .Net.

--
Veni, Vidi, Velcro!
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by ThogScully · 2004-12-23 02:08 · Score: 1

Here's a really good cache of the "About" page that gives a great overview of SkyOS. It's enough to make me want to try it - I wonder if there's a live CD in the works.
-N

--
I've nothing to say here...
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by squiggleslash · 2004-12-23 02:08 · Score: 1

It's a written-from-the-ground-up proprietary operating system in the Windows/MacOS tradition. Kind of like both of them, only smaller and with less support. The advantage is supposedly it's more efficient than Windows.
Personally I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, being burnt with too many obscure proprietary systems (and some not so obscure ones that died anyway - too bad Commodore went bust before the whole "If we're dying we'll try a last minute boost and make our software open source" craze kicked in) in the formative years of my programming life, but YMMV.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by ThogScully · 2004-12-23 02:10 · Score: 1

I'm an idiot. Here's the link to the page I was talking about above:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mAtB9IdidSUJ: www.skyos.org/aboutnew.php&strip=1
-N

--
I've nothing to say here...
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:17 · Score: 0

Check netcraft. It will show thatskyos.org is running on Linux.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by pe1rxq · 2004-12-23 02:21 · Score: 1

Cars made a lot of blacksmiths go out of bussiness, they should have been outlawed a hundred years ago!

I am serious, you know I am right :)

Jeroen

--
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Slack3r78 · 2004-12-23 02:25 · Score: 1

How solid/usable is it at this point? Does it support dial up networking? I'm assuming that the addition of Firefox and Thunderbird means it'd be suitable for a basic user with limited needs, perhaps some word processing. On that front - does it has printer support/how good is it?

Basically, I can see some definite use for this, assuming it lives up to the hype, and I wouldn't be beyond paying the $30 registration as a "beta tester" to find out if it does. The use I have in mind in particular is getting my 90 year old grandmother who is not computer literate online in an environment where she won't be confused by everything on screen. Is this a possible solution or should I look at customizing an Ubuntu install instead?
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Scherf · 2004-12-23 02:26 · Score: 1

Yes, MSCORLIB is a part of .NET. Both dotGNU and Mono have their own implementation of it.
So, it probably means nothing.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by pe1rxq · 2004-12-23 02:31 · Score: 1

If we are going to classify him according to popular stereotypes I would judge hime to be a product of US education based on his writing skills.

Jeroen

--
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by dcheest · 2004-12-23 02:31 · Score: 1

From their list of ToDo's:

- Switch the skyos.org web server back to Linux from SkyOS so that more than 3 people at a time can view the site
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Megane · 2004-12-23 02:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

I agree... what the world doesn't need now is another closed-source, proprietary (in the sense of "not designed to be compatible with anything else"), desktop operating system. Windows NT is the last one that had any chance, and even that was designed with some compatibility with an already existing operating system. OS/2 and BeOS died in the desert. Apple tried multiple times to make a successor to MacOS: Pink/Taligent, PowerOpen, and Copeland. Only a reverse takeover by NeXT giving them a Unix-based OS succeeded.
Right now the only major desktop or server operating system that isn't based on the Unix model is Windows NT/2K/XP, and that one is only around because it's an 8000 pound gorilla thanks to running so many legacy apps from DOS/95/98.
IMHO, the only market where there is room for an original operating system is the Embedded space, which includes PDAs.

--
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by I(rispee_I(reme · 2004-12-23 03:08 · Score: 1

Firefox and quake2 aside, what does it need to run? Mwahaha...
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by squiggleslash · 2004-12-23 03:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'd be happy with something not Unix based, as long as it's an open system - open in the sense of being open source/free software, expandable, etc. It needs to support TCP/IP, and it has to be mainstream enough to not cause massive problems with the concept of porting software. If AROS had more drivers and had memory protection, I'd be tempted by it because the UI works the way I want a computer to work.
But SkyOS isn't really it. It's a nice design, apparently, and it's got a mainstream enough design to make porting far from impossible (as this article shows), but it's proprietary (I can't make modifications to it or support myself) and it doesn't have the support of a large organization that'll be around for years.
The SkyOS fan club might want to look at Atheos. There, again, was an operating system developed by a single individual to furfill his vision. He then, for reasons unknown, dropped out of sight.
Thankfully, for Atheos users, he'd taken the precaution of GPL'ing the system. So Atheos users were able to support themselves, eventually making an official fork of the no-longer-maintained system, and continue development.
I use Mac OS X, GNU/Linux, and OpenBSD. The former is proprietary but supported by a group that's not going to go away. The latter two are open and support for either's not going to go away. I have moral issues with the former, but for now, it's a good system and from a practical perspective, there's no issue with continuing to use it. SkyOS doesn't really fit as either, and past experience of pointing this out shows that, by and large, SkyOS's major online advocates are a bunch of loud-mouthed jerks who'll accuse anyone of being a free software "zealot" for pointing out the obvious (even when, as I did then and continue to do now, I said it was a choice between having major, guaranteed, commercial support or making it free software.)
So I can't really use it in the hope that if something goes wrong the SkyOS people will do the right thing and find a way to get users the support they need. I don't think they will, they're ideologically opposed to doing so. And because of that, they've created practical barriers to anyone who wants to use it for anything but the most trivial purposes.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Golias · 2004-12-23 03:15 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, their main page doesn't tell much about what SkyOS actually is.

Unfortunately, noone can be told what SkyOS is. You have to see it for yourself.

Looks like I got my one Matrix quote for the year in, just under the wire! w00t!

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by momus_radar · 2004-12-23 03:20 · Score: 1

Even IBM with its huge resources wasn't able to do that with OS/2.
It doesn't have to out Microsoft Microsoft. All it has to do is prove to the world that there is yet another viable alternative to MS.
Given the fact that the EU keeps smacking MS down, other governments are making a genuine attempt to stop using MS products, and a partially renewed public interest in open-source, thanks to apps like Firefox & Thunderbird, SkyOS may not warrant change but it may become a great instrument to inspire change.
When folks find out I've been using the Mac OS for nearly twenty years, they seem amazed with the idea of my not relying on MS.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 03:31 · Score: 1, Informative

The SkyOS fan club might want to look at Atheos. There, again, was an operating system developed by a single individual to furfill his vision. He then, for reasons unknown, dropped out of sight.

Thankfully, for Atheos users, he'd taken the precaution of GPL'ing the system. So Atheos users were able to support themselves, eventually making an official fork of the no-longer-maintained system, and continue development.

It's called Syllable. The SkyOS guys are well aware of Syllable and vice versa; they're almost in direct competition with each other at this stage.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Control+Group · 2004-12-23 03:35 · Score: 1

Farriers, actually. Blacksmiths make things out of iron. Farriers shoe horses. Given the amount of iron used in cars, blacksmiths wouldn't necessarily be put out of business by them (they might be put out of business by the manufacturing techniques, but that's not the same thing). Farriers, however, would be put out of business as the car supplanted the horse, which was their business.
</pedant>

(Sense of humor? Who needs one?)

--

Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by bhtooefr · 2004-12-23 03:36 · Score: 1

Heck, OS/2 was even designed with DOS compatibility... Windows NT killed it.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by ElGuapoGolf · 2004-12-23 03:49 · Score: 1

too bad Commodore went bust before the whole "If we're dying we'll try a last minute boost and make our software open source" craze kicked in) in the formative years of my programming life, but YMMV.

Another one like me. :) Could you imagine if Commodore had open sourced AmiDOS and the Workbench? Apple would have had a real preemptive multitasking operating system that ran on a 68xxx based CPU.

It's amazing that a little computer company from West Chester, PA could do what Apple took 2 decades to figure out.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 04:05 · Score: 0

um it was a joke. I knew someone would check netcraft...
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by msh104 · 2004-12-23 04:31 · Score: 1

well, I would really like the world to become more free, If we can get more and more free, then that will give us more time to spend on the things we like won't it? open source might be a portal to a new way of living. having advanced software availible for free is a improvement. just take a look at the base schools, look at the garbage software they are running, that it doesn't suite you as a person is of non importance. to the world as a whole it is a great improvement, try thinking in the larger picture. you can't stop this evolution. :)
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by fm6 · 2004-12-23 05:51 · Score: 1

I found this interview with its developers. The motivation seems to be, "Windows is too bloated and unreliable, Linux isn't sufficiently GUI-centric." The unspoken assumption is that there's no third choice because nobody's bothered to write one.
Which ignores a lot of history: we've seen QNX, BeOS, NEXT, and a lot of others. If you want to justify SkyOS, you don't compare it Windows or Linux -- you compare it to all the OSs that have failed to penetrate the x86 user base, and explain why SkyOS can succeed where they failed.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by snorklewacker · 2004-12-23 05:59 · Score: 1

Candidate for a Pullet Surprise
by Jerrold H. Zar

I have a spelling checker, It came with my PC. It plane lee marks four my revue Miss steaks aye can knot sea. Eye ran this poem threw it, Your sure reel glad two no. Its vary polished in it's weigh. My checker tolled me sew. A checker is a bless sing, It freeze yew lodes of thyme. It helps me right awl stiles two reed, And aides me when eye rime. Each frays come posed up on my screen Eye trussed too bee a joule. The checker pours o'er every word To cheque sum spelling rule. Bee fore a veiling checker's Hour spelling mite decline, And if we're lacks oar have a laps, We wood bee maid too wine. Butt now bee cause my spelling Is checked with such grate flare, Their are know fault's with in my cite, Of nun eye am a wear. Now spelling does knot phase me, It does knot bring a tier. My pay purrs awl due glad den With wrapped word's fare as hear. To rite with care is quite a feet Of witch won should bee proud, And wee mussed dew the best wee can, Sew flaw's are knot aloud. Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays Such soft wear four pea seas, And why eye brake in two averse Buy righting want too pleas.

--
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by AstroDrabb · 2004-12-23 06:02 · Score: 1

by and large, SkyOS's major online advocates are a bunch of loud-mouthed jerks who'll accuse anyone of being a free software "zealot" for pointing out the obvious
Wasn't there some article on /. about SkyOS using a lot of OSS and not releasing the changes? Or did I just dream that up : )

--
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Proph3t · 2004-12-23 07:01 · Score: 1

I've got the quote of the text on my site.. Click the "Proph3t" on the news post.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by LeftOfCentre · 2004-12-23 09:22 · Score: 1

As another of those "old school" C= fans who still hasn't forgotten reading comp.sys.amiga.misc for hours on the night of the C= bankruptcy, I feel compelled to point out that it was AmigaOS and AmigaDOS, not AmiDOS. :)
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by WJMoore · 2004-12-23 10:43 · Score: 1

The OS you're after is BeatrIX. Is is a minimal Linux distro based on Knoppix and Ubunto which of course makes it Debian at heart. The default desktop has 4 icons to do what most people need. You can of course apt-get anything else you want. The final release is scheduled for early 2005. And yes the developer is quite obsessed by his cat. I have set it up on an old 400Mhz PII PC for my brother who has never used Linux before, it runs very nicely.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by andreyw · 2004-12-23 10:45 · Score: 1

I am a *nix zealot, but I would say ReactOS(http://reactos.com/) is coming along pretty good to BECOME that viable open-source non-*nix alternative.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Slack3r78 · 2004-12-23 11:35 · Score: 1

Interesting. I actually ended up building an Ubuntu box today since I needed something to do anyway. BeatrIX looks interesting, but I'm not happy with the panel being moved to the bottom, being a bit of a HIG freak.

That's not far off from what I ended up setting up though, dumped OpenOffice Word Processor, Firefox, Evolution, and a link to her Home directory on the desktop. Just gotta get Gnome PPP or an equivalent set up now in a similar, easy-to-use fashion. :-)
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by squiggleslash · 2004-12-23 16:19 · Score: 1

I actually meant my comment more generally, eg I don't see a reason for a system to be discounted simply because it's not a POSIX system.
Personally, I doubt I'll use ReactOS, part of my interest in GNU/Linux from the start was that I liked the whole Unix thing better than I did Windows, and there are a multitude of environments I prefer to Windows. But good luck to them, I know a lot of people who like the way Windows works.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Myen · 2004-12-23 16:32 · Score: 1

Considering that the terminal says

$>ilasm --format exe hello.il
$>ilrun hello.exe

And the window caption of the text editor says hello.il, yeah it's probably just a test of the .NET runtime stuff. (According to the screenshot, ilrun is external GPLed software too.)
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 17:10 · Score: 0

I tried it (for fun and by curriosity) about 2 years ago. It was not very useful by shear lack of apps and drivers (ie: no net), but it worked on the basis. Now, looking at the screenshots, it sure looks much prettier and with a browser in bonus, who knows, give it a few years more down the road and maybe this will be what will liberate is from the Linux monopoly, when Windows/Solaris/*BSD will have faded out of any relevancies.
Re:Slashdotted in the mysterious future? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 18:45 · Score: 0

While I agree that at times a good number of people seem like idiotic zealots, I don't think this is the case for the majority of us on this topic.

I'm all for hobby OS development, in fact I've thought of starting one of my own for the fun of it. However, I just can't see how anyone in their right mind would make it commercial. There can only be 2 reasons for why he is doing this: as a hobby because its fun or because he wants to sell it.

If he is doing this for the fun and enjoyment of creation, then why not share it? Wouldn't letting others see what amazing tricks and such you made in your code bring even more enjoyment from it? And even if the praise doesn't matter to you, why not just share your code so others can learn from it?

On the other hand if he truly wants to make money from it I can understand his reasons not to make it open source. However, I would like to know what the hell is wrong with his head. To compete with Microsoft and Linux!? Windows has so large a userbase it doesn't even make sense to compete with them. Anyone who likes the idea of open source will seek an open source alternative, the rest of them will keep on using Windows. If SkyOS ever got even close to becoming a threat, Microsoft would stampede its lawyers on them and it would be end of story (they'll find something too similar).

It would seem my roommate is right, he's just an egomaniac.

Pretty amazing stuff by sowdog81 · 2004-12-23 01:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

the os has come quite far. Supposedly done mainly by 1 guy. I'd hug myself if i could write something that boots up.

Re:Pretty amazing stuff by guhknew · 2004-12-23 01:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

What's even more amazing is that I saw it progressing from its infancy. I remember first hearing about it from the guy who wrote it on the now defunct os-dev.isa.net.au message board. It wasn't much to begin with, but even at the time I was always impressed by how much they had accomplished. It's been a long time since I've checked its progress and I can say with some certainty that I would never have expected it to progress as far as it has.
Re:Pretty amazing stuff by Just+Some+Guy · 2004-12-23 03:44 · Score: 1

With all respect to the guy, if he's the type that actually would write a whole OS by himself, then I suspect he does, in fact, "hug" himself quite a bit.
Ain't no time for socializin' when you're debugging kernel spinlocks.

--
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:Pretty amazing stuff by rainman_bc · 2004-12-23 05:31 · Score: 1

And the most amazing part is that he probably hasn't made a tonne of money off of it either... It's a gamble that might never pay off, and I applaude that he took that risk.

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Up and coming? by Mephie · 2004-12-23 01:06 · Score: 0

That seems a little generous. Not much information on what makes it special either, or why someone would want to switch to that OS over any other. From the screenshot, it looks a lot like KDE.

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Re:Up and coming? by basic0 · 2004-12-23 05:37 · Score: 1

From the screenshot, it looks a lot like KDE.
I never get over people saying things like this. It's always seemed like splitting hairs to me. Yes it looks like KDE, just like KDE looks like Windows, Windows looks like GNOME, GNOME looks like Aqua, etc, etc..
All of these popular interfaces use the same metaphors and ideas. For example, they all have some sort of "bar" in one part of the screen that organizes open programs and/or launches programs and/or tells you what time it is and a bunch of other stuff. Call it a "taskbar", a "panel", a "dock", or a "kicker", it's all the same thing.
Interfaces haven't really progressed from these basic ideas since their inception. If you want something that's fundamentally different, look at interfaces like Looking Glass, or Metisse.

30 pages? by CrackedButter · 2004-12-23 01:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

Holy shit! Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I couldn't work out how the blurb was trying to spin it.

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Jonathanjk.com

Re:30 pages? by shish · 2004-12-23 03:57 · Score: 1

I couldn't work out how the blurb was trying to spin it.
Maybe slashdot reported a fact and didn't spin it either way?
... nah, I'm sure we're just missing something ...

--
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment

Heavy... by Red15 · 2004-12-23 01:07 · Score: 1, Funny

This site is now officially /.'ed :p
Makes me wonder if their webserver is running SkyOS Apache or something ...

Re:Heavy... by Blackknight · 2004-12-23 01:18 · Score: 1

Actually it does.
Re:Heavy... by bhtooefr · 2004-12-23 01:24 · Score: 1

Nope, alternating between Apache/Solaris and Apache/Linux.
Re:Heavy... by mrogers · 2004-12-23 01:39 · Score: 1

Used to be up and coming, now it's down and burning...

Getting the userbase by KiloByte · 2004-12-23 01:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, for the ordinary granny-type user, a web browser and a mail client is all what's important. So, this very move gave them a non-negligible piece of usability.

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The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Re:Getting the userbase by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:18 · Score: 0

almost...

it needs solitare too...
Re:Getting the userbase by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:50 · Score: 0

What this does actually prove is that:

a) Firefox and Thunderbird are portable to even non-standard operating systems
b) By one person, or maybe a few at most

What this also proves is that for desktop operating systems without working ports of Firefox and Thunderbird, why not?

a) AmigaOS - How many years have people been whinging about not having a port?
i) Yes, that's it. Easier to fight and bitch and whinge than actually do something about it
ii) OMG OH NO A DECENT BROWSER MIGHT KILL OFF A SHITTY BROWSER LIKE AWEB OR IBROWSE! THINK OF THOSE DEVELOPERS! OMG
iii) iBrowse at least had a humourous name

I believe that a port of KDE's HTML rendering widget is being made to AmigaOS at the moment. Wonder if it will ever get completed.
Re:Getting the userbase by Drantin · 2004-12-23 03:13 · Score: 1

That and there are less reported hacks/vir(ii/uses) of SkyOS than Linux or MacOS X... ;)

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Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)

Porting by khellendros1984 · 2004-12-23 01:09 · Score: 1

I wonder how useful the document on how to port Mozilla will be for porting in general? I guess SkyOS might actually take off after all Always sounded like it had some interesting concepts behind it!

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Re:Porting by NetNifty · 2004-12-23 01:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

"I wonder how useful the document on how to port Mozilla will be for porting in general?"

Hopefully very useful, Firefox on Symbian (OS mainly used on Nokia and Sony Ericonsson phones btw) anyone?

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Linux Wireless Hardware in the UK
Re:Porting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:21 · Score: 0

Why bother, Symbian already has the best browser, Opera.
Re:Porting by NetNifty · 2004-12-23 01:26 · Score: 1

Last time I checked, Opera on Symbion was only a 30 day trial (after 30 days are up, it won't run), and although the cost is nominal ($29 isn't it?) I would prefer to have both a "free as in beer" and "free as in speech" alternative.

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Linux Wireless Hardware in the UK
Re:Porting by CdBee · 2004-12-23 01:33 · Score: 1

Thunderbird on Symbian would be better - one mail app - anywhere, easy sync between Mac, PC and PDA, etc

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Re:Porting by Errtu76 · 2004-12-23 01:34 · Score: 1

One word: why? Not mentioning (oops, i just did) the fact that you don't actually need a browser on your phone, but wouldn't this just open another potential hole for security flaws? We all know how browsers are continuously exploited by nasty webmasters. Would you really want to expose your phone to this?
Re:Porting by awch · 2004-12-23 01:49 · Score: 1

One word: why? Not mentioning (oops, i just did) the fact that you don't actually need a browser on your phone, but wouldn't this just open another potential hole for security flaws? We all know how browsers are continuously exploited by nasty webmasters. Would you really want to expose your phone to this?

One word: why? Not mentioning (oops, i just did) the fact that you don't actually need a browser on your computer , but wouldn't this just open another potential hole for security flaws? We all know how browsers are continuously exploited by nasty webmasters. Would you really want to expose your computer to this?
Re:Porting by Renaud · 2004-12-23 01:49 · Score: 1

The prime candidate for a Symbian port would be Minimo, rather than Mozilla.
Re:Porting by Jugalator · 2004-12-23 01:51 · Score: 1

Why bother, Symbian already has the best browser, Opera.

The best browser according to you, yeah. :-)

So they shouldn't bother porting because of your opinion.

Ahhh, logic falls apart!

--
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Re:Porting by Errtu76 · 2004-12-23 01:56 · Score: 1

I fail to see your point of swapping the word phone for computer.
Re:Porting by kesuki · 2004-12-23 02:43 · Score: 1

Opera is probably the only modern browser capable of running on a Machine with 4 megs of RAM and a 486 33mhz processor. That being said, it isn't the best browser IMO.. It's the most lightweight, but fails code complience and compatability in many reguards. Firefox requires a lot of processing power/ram in comparison, because in part it was designed around optimal flexibility. Firefox initally started as slimmed down version of mozilla, but even without the 'feedback agent' there is only so much you can do to reduce it's processor and memory footprint when it wasn't designed around slow processor low ram working environments. It was designed around the asumption that Moore's Law would hold true, and noone would want to use a slow POS computer... negligent of the fact that many 'high tech' countries like india still earn the equivalent of about $2,000USD a year total, and they're lucky if they can find a job that pays that much.
Opera has it's niche or users, and it doesn't look like anyone is a real threat to it. Microsoft is getting ready to make an OS that runs slow on a 4ghz CPU with 1GB of ram, and Firefox isn't looking back to make it's system run better on slower systems, either.

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https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Re:Porting by nadadogg · 2004-12-23 03:43 · Score: 1

The prime candidate for a Symbian port would be Minimo, rather than Mozilla.
In before 12 people quote you and say "I use minimo on the desktop"

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i use linux and windows oh god how can i have an opinion
Re:Porting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 04:08 · Score: 0

"That being said, [Opera] isn't the best browser IMO.. It's the most lightweight, but fails code complience and compatability in many reguards."

I call bullshit.

Opera is plenty compliant and compatible. It is not Opera which is the problem at all. If a site doesn't work with Opera, you can bet your hat that it's using browser sniffing to send Opera some ancient crap which doesn't work in any browser.

If only sites stopped discriminating against Opera and sent it the same they send to everyone else, there wouldn't be any problems.

On the other hand, Firefox can't even render Slashdot correctly...
Re:Porting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 06:05 · Score: 0

Most web-capable phones running Symbian already come with Opera installed. Mine sure did. But it's a browser on a phone, you really don't want to go viewing full size web pages in it, and unless you have a bluetooth keyboard, typing anything in is a pain in the ass.

I also can't get actual *maps* on mapquest to show up on my phone...
Re:Porting by aldoman · 2004-12-23 06:35 · Score: 1

No, it might be fine with CSS, but it's DOM support blows. 7.6 has the bare bones to get _GMail_ to work, and it's still not complete (no spell checking support - thanks to Opera's crappy DOM support).

Opera has to move a hell of a lot faster on the ol' implementing DOM front, because at the moment they are behind IE, Gecko and KHTML/Safari.

As for Firefox not rendering Slashdot correctly, it's an issue that's been fixed in the main Gecko trunk for months and was slightly too late getting checked in to make it for 1.0. It'll be fixed in 1.1. Moz 1.8 (which Firefox 1.1 has) has the best CSS3 support of any browser btw, and when they have Cairo implemented they'll have support for a load more.

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Re:Porting by kesuki · 2004-12-23 10:13 · Score: 1

Thanks for correcting the guy who didn't know WTF he was talking about.
I only knew that opera didn't load pages right that load correctly in firefox, from personal experience.

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https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Re:Porting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 10:28 · Score: 0

it's using browser sniffing to send Opera some ancient crap which doesn't work in any browser.
Bzzt Wrong. http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2004/xhtml-faq
an HTML 4.0 compliant browser will render any HTML 1.0 compliant code just as easily, in fact the ties to legacy design implimentation lead to the need for xhtml(aka XML). Sorry AC not a relevant point in your entire post. btw the 'slashdot rendering issue' is purely cosmetic, not one single function of /. is affected, and it is already patched as another poster pointed out.
Re:Porting by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-26 14:44 · Score: 0

"No, it might be fine with CSS, but it's DOM support blows. 7.6 has the bare bones to get _GMail_ to work, and it's still not complete (no spell checking support - thanks to Opera's crappy DOM support)."

You are talking out of your ass.

XMLHttpRequest is a non-standard extension introduced in Gecko. It's got nothing to do with "DOM support".

Opera's DOM support is fine, and it's a lot faster than IE, Firefox and Safari.

"As for Firefox not rendering Slashdot correctly, it's an issue that's been fixed in the main Gecko trunk for months and was slightly too late getting checked in to make it for 1.0."

Yeah yeah, excuses excuses. The simple fact is that Firefox can't even render Slashdot correctly.

"the best CSS3 support of any browser"

Yawn. Get back to me when CSS3 is done.

RTFA by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:10 · Score: 1, Funny

from the SkyOS site: Total hits: 5,052,470 - Hits to this page: 207,173 - Users online: 505 - Most users ever online: 513
nice, now we can actually proof howmany people RTFA :)

Re:RTFA by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:00 · Score: 0

Methinks their stats are fishy. The MirrorDotted page said:

Total hits: 5,051,801 - Hits to this page: 1,310,677 - Users online: 216 - Most users ever online: 215

So their "total hits" went up, but their "hits to this page" went down?

Perhaps adding numbers isn't SkyOS's strong point...

30 'pages' by Leffe · 2004-12-23 01:10 · Score: 4, Funny

A 30-page guide on avoiding Slashdotting would be more helpful I think.

http://www.skyos.org.nyud.net:8090/

Hehe, they used Slashdot in the Firefox screenshots, it's like they are asking for it :)

Other ports = handheld, smartphones, etc by GrAfFiT · 2004-12-23 01:10 · Score: 1

I would really be interested in a port of a Mozilla browser to some of these small footprints devices. I currently use Opera on my series 60 Nokia smartphone. It's a real pain to use.
I heard some interesting things about Minimo : here's the link.

Re:Other ports = handheld, smartphones, etc by sunsrin · 2004-12-23 01:39 · Score: 2, Informative

Unless you can spare a few mb ( > 5-10 mb ) on your device, its really difficult to get a browser with almost full feature functionality on a small footprint device. I am not sure how much Opera takes though.
I think mozilla/firefox allows you to use xlib or gtk when you compile. So, your device must support either one of them - Minimo is gtk based and can be used on a ipaq with GPE environment. A friend has been trying to get firefox running on a handheld based on ARM - takes a bit of time and space - but you get the best browser on your handheld. A bit of optimization in terms of what modules are compiled should help the reduce the size and increase the performance

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>> Techflock-flock onto the best bits of technology

Hate to say this and all, but... by Atrax · 2004-12-23 01:13 · Score: 3, Insightful

How many new Firefox users is this really going to contribute to the global pool, in the long run?

Good for SkyOS, possibly, rather a non-event from a Firefox perspective, at least numbers-wise.

Forgive me oh Stallman, I know not what I speak!

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Screw you all! I'm off to the pub

Re:Hate to say this and all, but... by datbox · 2004-12-23 01:52 · Score: 1

"How many new Firefox users is this really going to contribute to the global pool, in the long run?"

It's not meant to bring SkyOS users to firefox, it's meant to bring firefox users to SkyOS. They were in desperate need of a good browser / mail combo. Now they have it.

I still won't use SkyOS, but best of luck to them and those that do.
Re:Hate to say this and all, but... by archen · 2004-12-23 01:52 · Score: 1

Good for SkyOS, possibly, rather a non-event from a Firefox perspective, at least numbers-wise

I wonder if Open Source might finally be the answer that anyone who is making a new OS is looking for. You can make the best OS there is but the first question is "are there any applications". With open source you get the code so it's always possible (although perhaps not likely) to port an Open Source app to a new OS. Maybe this will finally empower new developers to make an OS that really does something instead of being a cool "proof of concept" thing.
Re:Hate to say this and all, but... by RdsArts · 2004-12-23 02:03 · Score: 1

Why would Stallman care? SkyOS is a non-Free system, so anyone choosing it over a Free system like GNU/Linux or GNU/Darwin would be a loss.
Re:Hate to say this and all, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:10 · Score: 0

RdsArts, meet 'humour'. 'Humour', meet RdsArts
Re:Hate to say this and all, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 03:01 · Score: 0

possibly, rather a non-event from a Firefox perspective, at least numbers-wise.

I agree that nuber-wise this is probably non-event.

However, a good friend of mine put it as "you usually get it right after porting to several platforms". I agree with him and think that SkyOS port is good for Firefox.
Re:Hate to say this and all, but... by kryptkpr · 2004-12-23 03:54 · Score: 1

Maybe this will finally empower new developers to make an OS that really does something instead of being a cool "proof of concept" thing.

Yeah, Linux and *BSD are just cool "proof of concepts".. nobody uses them for any actual work.

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Re:Hate to say this and all, but... by AmberBlackCat · 2004-12-23 04:25 · Score: 1

Good for SkyOS, possibly, rather a non-event from a Firefox perspective, at least numbers-wise.

That's right. SkyOS is too small of a project to be any of significance. And everybody knows no small projects ever become big ones, right?

Why is this significant? by Agret · 2004-12-23 01:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

Beacuse it is showing that it is not difficult to port Mozilla Thunderbird & Firefox to your Operating System of choice. It also adds more to the user base beacuse the OS is shipping with a good browser rather than a hopeless one (You all know what I mean!)

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Re:Why is this significant? by black+mariah · 2004-12-23 01:53 · Score: 0

It also adds more to the user base beacuse the OS is shipping with a good browser rather than a hopeless one (You all know what I mean!)
Netscape?

--
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
Re:Why is this significant? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:07 · Score: 0

Replace *not difficult* with *possible*. Somehow it sounds like you suggest it's a weekend project for everyone, dismissing the skill of the porting people/man. (Yeah, I know, you didn't mean it, but it just struck me that way... :)
Re:Why is this significant? by rxmd · 2004-12-23 02:13 · Score: 1

It also adds more to the user base beacuse the OS is shipping with a good browser rather than a hopeless one (You all know what I mean!)
Netscape?
Emacs/W3, running on Emacs 19.34 to spare the user the confusion of a GUI, let alone graphics?

--
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
Re:Why is this significant? by Jedi+Alec · 2004-12-23 02:24 · Score: 1

Not only that. This is going to be an OS that ships with Thunderbird and Firefox *by default*. iow, following the same concept used to shove IE down everybody's throat.

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People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Re:Why is this significant? by Cthefuture · 2004-12-23 04:46 · Score: 1

Yeah, especially if "your Operating System of choice" is one you wrote yourself. The guy to wrote SkyOS is the same person who ported Firefox and Thunderbird.

Considering the OS appears to be BeOS/UNIX/BSD-like in nature, probably uses open-source libraries and such, and the person porting the application knows the OS intimately, I think it would be relatively trivial to port just about anything that runs on Linux.

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The ratio of people to cake is too big
Re:Why is this significant? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 04:58 · Score: 0

There is very little of anything "BeOS/UNIX/BSD-like" in SkyOS. The API is more like a bad parody of Win32.
Re:Why is this significant? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 10:55 · Score: 0

Emacs/W3 handles graphics just fine, actually (not animated gifs of course). Not much else, and don't expect it to render slashdot...
Re:Why is this significant? by rxmd · 2004-12-26 22:07 · Score: 1

Not on Emacs 19.34, though ;)

--
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)

Firefox on my cell phone, maybe? by MikeyVB · 2004-12-23 01:14 · Score: 1

I think it would be entirely possible that someday there might be a port for mobile phone use. I think it is reasonable. My phone has only 42mb of memory for programs, music and pictures and such, and runs "Mobile Java" programs. And since there are java browsers for mobiles already, it would be cool if an open source browser like Firefox was there too. But, I think most of FireFox is written in C++, not java.

Re:Firefox on my cell phone, maybe? by GrAfFiT · 2004-12-23 01:17 · Score: 1

There is a project at Mozilla for smartphones : Minimo
Re:Firefox on my cell phone, maybe? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:27 · Score: 0

And since there are java browsers for mobiles already
Huh? Where?

how to avoid slashdotting: by RafeDawg · 2004-12-23 01:18 · Score: 1

Lesson #1:

Don't be the first to mirror a /.ed page.

Your server feels only mildly healthier than theirs :)

--
------- Was it just a coincidence I got moderator points the first time I logged on to /. from linux?

Re:how to avoid slashdotting: by Leffe · 2004-12-23 02:02 · Score: 1

Of course it's not my server, that would be suicide! Or fun... Nevermind, see this URL for more information:

http://www.scs.cs.nyu.edu/coral/

Ahem, and to stay on-topic... maybe they are using SkyOS or whatever it is called.

Mirrored files by GrAfFiT · 2004-12-23 01:19 · Score: 3, Informative

A Firefox screenshot.
A Thunderbird screenshot.
And the about page of SkyOS.

speaks volumes about FF by adeydas · 2004-12-23 01:21 · Score: 1

porting FF and other moz products to different OS' only speaks volumes about the great service offered by this. it will be very good since FF is a wonderful browser...

SkyOS by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:23 · Score: 0

Make the switch today! Runs on x86/Power Mac G5! Get rid of Windows/OS-X, install SkyOS!

Platform Support is Important... by OhBrian · 2004-12-23 01:28 · Score: 1

When IT folks consider adding different applications to their "standard builds" the different platforms that support the application are often considered. Pushing Mozilla.org products out to different operating systems should help spread the product and get it into the hands of corporate users.

--
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.

Never ceases to amaze me by sethadam1 · 2004-12-23 01:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

...nothing particularly exciting..

I love the gumption of Slashdotters. Such an arrogance to everything. A guy decides to more or less code an entire OS by himself, ports nearly all the apps, and has a running OS that does things in a pretty unique way, and some holier-than-thou nerd, with, I might add, zero credentials that we know of, immediately dismisses it. No wonder OSS gets a bad rap, this is the attitude of our citizens.

Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Jugalator · 2004-12-23 01:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

But why would it be exciting?

Yes, it's a great job on his part, few of us here would be able to pull it off, but why should we get excited? What does it offer? Just because someone doesn't get excited about it doesn't mean he dimisses his work. Heck, it might be a very powerful OS. But it's commercial. And it has basically no software developed for it, with little reason to believe it should increase in popularity, considering the already well established competition. To me it needs to offer something unique to be something else than a hobby project. And as long as it's that, why should the general public be excited? Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

--
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by NetNifty · 2004-12-23 01:52 · Score: 1

nothing particularly exciting != not impressive.

Yes, its impressive that one person has accomplished all that, but it doesn't really sound to me like it offers anything new or amazing, sure it can work, and good for him if it does, but it isnt exactly anything that hasn't been done before, is it?

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Linux Wireless Hardware in the UK
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Momoru · 2004-12-23 01:58 · Score: 3, Interesting

Personally I think things like SkyOS are MORE exciting then *nix based systems. Just because linux etc are open source doesn't make it the best. Its still basically based on a 30 year old operating system. I really like the idea of a system written from scratch, and although it would be nice if it were open source, i don't see anything wrong with another commercial competitor. Just the fact that he was able to port Firefox "easily" makes it seem that he has put some thought into making an OS that will support common applications.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by sethadam1 · 2004-12-23 01:59 · Score: 1, Insightful

nothing particularly exciting != not impressive.

Fair. But I guess I think it *is* exciting when a relatively new OS NOT based on existing code (read: overhead) becomes "full featured."

After all, this is Slashdot. I go to espn.com for my sports scores, I come here for news like this.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by CrkHead · 2004-12-23 02:00 · Score: 1

And the httpd servers we sent smoking are running Linux.
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host= skyos.org
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by pe1rxq · 2004-12-23 02:06 · Score: 1

There still isn't anything that sounds exciting....
Just because an idea is 30 year old doesn't make it a bad idea. (Arguably it was a brilliant idea since it is still good after 30 years).
It might be written from scratch, but that doesn't mean it is based on better ideas. What exactly makes this OS better? What idea that is incorporated is better than the 30 year old idea?

Jeroen

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Re:Never ceases to amaze me by IdleTime · 2004-12-23 02:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

But it's commercial.
I just love this!
It's-commerical-so-it-must-be-bad-/. attitude.

You and me and the rest of the world depends on stuff that is commercial. If not, neither you nor I would have a steady income and beeing able to post this from our nice computers.

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If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by StrawberryFrog · 2004-12-23 02:20 · Score: 1

I'm sure that it's very important and exciting to the guy who's spent years of his life writing it. It would have to be, otherwise he would have come to his senses years ago.

But I think it is fair to say that given the current state of the OS market, you don't have any chance at all of being important to the larger world unless your product is either Free Open Source, or already an established player.

Doesn't matter if it is technically good. Doesn't matter if you give it away for free. The market for new proprietary OSs is just not there. See for example BeOs.

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My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by DrSkwid · 2004-12-23 02:26 · Score: 1

maybe if the world didn't depend on stuff that was commecial we wouldn't *need* a steady income!

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There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by antoy · 2004-12-23 02:31 · Score: 1

but it isnt exactly anything that hasn't been done before, is it?

We wouldn't know from your description. All you say is that:

a)it's written from scratch ( so it very likely that it's offering something new)

b)it's not based on unix at all ( which has been done before many times and therefore would not have been something completely new).

So you make it sound very exciting, and then reject it (because it's commercial? because it's, um, not based on *nix? the hell?).
If you don't find that kind of stuff exciting, what are you doing posting on computer geek site?
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by shokk · 2004-12-23 02:36 · Score: 1

Yeah, and who needs food and shelter, anyway?

--
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by sethadam1 · 2004-12-23 02:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

Oh, I'd strongely disagree. You made your own case:

What Be did with the BeOS is STILL exciting, so much so that there are no fewer than 3 groups trying to do the same thing open source, there are efforts to finalize Reiser4 and WinFS, both of which appear to build on the work on Dominic Giampolo's BFS, and I'd argue than most OS'es are still behind in UI responsiveness.

Why is it exciting? Because if Robert and crew come up with something amazing, it might be one day the next big player. And if not, maybe they can introduce some new ideas that make their way to other OS projects.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:57 · Score: 0

I think the point was that, since it's commercial, it should have something in it worth paying for.

I could sell bottled tap water, but why would anyone get excited over it? I'm not offering anything you cant just get for free or cheap from an already established source.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by StrawberryFrog · 2004-12-23 03:09 · Score: 1

What Be did with the BeOS is STILL exciting, so much so that there are no fewer than 3 groups trying to do the same thing open source

Ok, so it might be exciting if it inspires similar improvements to open-source software. Of course, if you are a genius with a good idea, you could cut the middleman and work directly with the open source OSs.

Because if Robert and crew come up with something amazing, it might be one day the next big player.

I doubt it. See the parent post.

--
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by beforewisdom · 2004-12-23 03:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

I love the gumption of Slashdotters. Such an arrogance to everything. A guy decides to more or less code an entire OS by himself, ports nearly all the apps, and has a running OS that does things in a pretty unique way, and some holier-than-thou nerd, with, I might add, zero credentials that we know of, immediately dismisses it. No wonder OSS gets a bad rap, this is the attitude of our citizens.

I have had similar observations.

If Slashdot was a religion people would call us fundamentalists or the "geek taliban".

If most slashdotters were women people would say we were catty and cliquish like high school girls.

I do see a handful of really cool people here and there though.

No offense to anyone, just an observation.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by n3bulous · 2004-12-23 03:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

Slashdot needs a moderation option for missing the point. He didn't say it was bad, but he implied that few people will shell out money for some proprietary OS lacking applications.

The site's down so I can't see whether it supports the whole set of GNU tools and judge potential for porting other OSS software. However, history shows that the barrier to entry is having end user applications that the users _want_. There are thousands of applications for Linux, but most of them suck and are not wanted by general users. It's not Windows, the same excuse that few Linux ports of popular software packages exist.

So what's to get excited (as a user) about a commercial OS that does nothing but allow you to read email, surf the web, and probably a few applications that do not play with the rest of the world's applications?

If Linux had started out commercial, it would never have grown. Even still, it's been around for 10+ years, had a bunch of press-hype, and it's still used less than the Mac. Where was SCO before the lawsuit mess? Where is AmigaOS (everyone says it was awesome)?

What chance does SkyOS of becoming relevant given these restrictions? Unless it fulfills a need it will remain obscure.

My livelyhood (and probably most of /.) depends mostly on free software because most of our clients are financially challenged. Additionally, if you haven't noticed, most (American, at least) jobs tend towards the service sector. Nothing is actually being produced, but money is changing hands.

Apologies for excessive use of the word "most".

--
"The area of penetration will no doubt be sensitive." ~ Spock
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 03:27 · Score: 0

While I don't believe commercial is bad, in the Operating System market commercial is just a kiss of death to any new OS. The only people who could pull off the release of a new, closed source OS are the OEM's E.g. companies like Sun or IBM. You'll notice that IBM are moving everything to Linux as much as possible though; even they know commercial and closed are a bad idea when it comes to new or different OS's!
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by roca · 2004-12-23 04:15 · Score: 1

The idea that rewriting something from scratch is de facto exciting and a good thing is a disease for which we have yet to discover a cure.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by cbreaker · 2004-12-23 04:18 · Score: 1

And then there's the never ending replies to those posts by people like you who can't respect the fact that we can all have our own opinion on matters, and assume that the few posts from some boring people are representing of the entire slashdot readership.

Hey, SkyOS is a feat. It's neat. So what if this other guy isn't excited. Can't really say that I am either, but I always like seeing new developments like this popping up. Keeps things interesting.

--
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by DrSkwid · 2004-12-23 04:23 · Score: 1

try this one then

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by DrSkwid · 2004-12-23 04:26 · Score: 1

what did we eat and where did we sit before commerce ?

do the birds carry purses under their wings?

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Momoru · 2004-12-23 04:30 · Score: 1

Not saying that just because something is written from scratch its exciting, just saying an entirely unique OS that runs common applications is more exciting then yet ANOTHER variation of linux that now runs on my wrist watch or whatever. I was just refering to the original persons comment that because its NOT unix its not exciting.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by caswelmo · 2004-12-23 05:04 · Score: 1

I would suggest trying your "bottled tap water" idea in California. They'll buy anything as long as you make it sound "hip" and charge too much for it.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 05:15 · Score: 0

we ate shit and slept in huts, I am quite happy with my life under under capitalism.

societies without commerce don't scale well.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 05:54 · Score: 0

> I love the gumption of Slashdotters. Such an arrogance to everything. A guy decides to more or less code an entire OS by himself

Operating systems are undergraduate projects these days. And if you want to see holier-than-thou, you should check out the attitudes of the SkyOS dev team. Heck, you'll fit right in.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by mdielmann · 2004-12-23 05:57 · Score: 1

Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

Hey, this is Slashdot. We'll correct you even if you're right!

--
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by westlake · 2004-12-23 06:06 · Score: 1

what did we eat and where did we sit before commerce?
was there ever a time when humans did not engage in barter or exchange?
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by AstroDrabb · 2004-12-23 06:13 · Score: 1

The GP didn't say commercial == bad. He was stating that there really is _no_ room for another commercial OS. No commercial OS is going to take out MS. And if you don't like MS, there is the commercial Mac OS. After that, we have a bunch of very good quality OSS OSes.
I agree with the GP. I don't see any point in making a _hobby_ OS closed source. Maybe an embedded OS, but not a general purpose OS. IMO, it is a shame the developers of SkyOS do not use their abilities for an open source OS or even send a job application to MS or Apple.
I don't want to sound like I am dissing the entrepreneurial spirit, that is what drives our nation. But I am sure if I were developing a closed/proprietary Widget that there would never be a need for, I would have a fair amount of vocal feedback about using my talents where it may be more productive/profitable.

--
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by yngv · 2004-12-23 06:47 · Score: 1

I think it's safe to say 'yes' to that. When humans worldwide numbered only in the tens of thousands, they existed in small family-oriented units, hunting and gathering. They sought what they needed on their own. Barter/exchange only started making sense when individuals had abilities that others lacked (forging metal, maybe) and spent their time doing these tasks instead of hunting and gathering.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by DrSkwid · 2004-12-23 06:49 · Score: 1

was there ever a time when humans did not engage in barter or exchange?

take that back or I'll smash yer face in !!!

j/k

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by IpalindromeI · 2004-12-23 06:54 · Score: 1

You misspelled bell. Bell Lab's Plan9

--

--
Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by DrSkwid · 2004-12-23 07:36 · Score: 1

hehe what a balls up

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by bit01 · 2004-12-23 07:37 · Score: 1

It's-commerical-so-it-must-be-bad-/. attitude.
Of course. Usually if it's commercial it can't be hacked (experimented with). Slashdot is for software hackers/nerds (experimenters). What else do you expect?

---

DRM - Democracy Restriction & Manipulation
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by JamieF · 2004-12-23 08:59 · Score: 1

>there are efforts to finalize Reiser4

According to the ReiserFS 4 page, it's released.

What do you mean when you say there are efforts to finalize it? Are you talking about bug fixes? Even if you are, I don't think you should lump it in with WinFS since ReiserFS 4 is available now, and WinFS ain't (and won't be for several YEARS).
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by sethadam1 · 2004-12-23 09:30 · Score: 1

I think I "kinda" misspoke, because what I know about reiser4 suggests it is awesome (e.g. echo Yellowcard > /music/Yellowcard/Yellowcard\ -\ Breathing.mp3/artist) and I wasn't trying to imply it's some sort of clone or vaporware or anything.

However, it doesn't change that many of the features that people really dig about "modern" filesystems were pioneered in BFS 5 years ago. That's fair, right?
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Enahs · 2004-12-23 09:49 · Score: 1

Um, it's been done already.
Seriously.

--
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by mbroadst · 2004-12-23 11:07 · Score: 1

I have done some work on this project in the past attempting to port the gcc toolchain over to it. The operating system started off as a great effort on behalf of its creator, however, as time progressed I feel that he got somewhat impatient. In his desire to attract new developers and users he began copying things which he should not have copied. However, noone is able to see this because the OS is closed source, but due to my need to understand the internals he began releasing pieces of the code to me. Though I don't still have any of this code I can guarantee there where a number of files that were copied almost in full, and are not mentioned anywhere in the OS description or on the site. He may legitimately be trying to fill in some crucial gaps right now so that they might be filled in later with his own code, but for the meantime one might consider it despicable (not to mention illegal?) that they are now trying to sell this operating system for money? (Become a SkyOS beta tester for $30)
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 16:24 · Score: 0

OSS indeed....

5. Is SkyOS open-source?
No. SkyOS is a closed-source operating system.

6. Does SkyOS use GPL'd code?
No. SkyOS uses no GPL'd code in the kernel/system
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by eofpi · 2004-12-23 21:46 · Score: 1

It depends on where the code originated. If it came from LGPL'd or BSD'd code, it's legally in the clear (ethics are too subjective to say for sure), but if it came from GPL'd code, it is illegal.

--
Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by shokk · 2004-12-24 07:45 · Score: 1

We led short and miserable struggles against the universe that might have passed as "lives." I think you are grossly overestimating the Grizzly Adams experience.

--
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Ben+Hutchings · 2004-12-27 07:55 · Score: 1

It's been done - Dasani is tap water. I don't see that the successful marketing of bottled water (which is generally inferior to tap water in taste and bacterial content) is at all specific to California.
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 08:59 · Score: 0

Pretty convenient that you claim he copied other code, but now have absolutely zero proof of that "fact". It seems by your verbage that you are bothered that he (allegedly) used this code. It also seems that if something upset you that much, you would be likely to keep the offending code, rather than simply delete it (unless, of course, it never really existed).
Re:Never ceases to amaze me by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 09:03 · Score: 0

Wait....I'm confused.....who said it was OSS?

Pocket PC anytime soon? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:39 · Score: 0

Does anyone know if we will see Firefox and Thunderbird ported to Pocket PC? Any links would be helpful. I'd rather not have to work with pocket PC, but sometimes these choices are left to the employer.

The Hidden Strength Of Open Source. by jellomizer · 2004-12-23 01:40 · Score: 1

This is the real advantage of Open Source Software. It is there for everyone to use. It allows people to choose their OS (Open Source or Not) and Still run their favorite Open Source App. No Commercial Enterprise has the resources to port their commercial apps to all the different apps the OSS can be ported to. Lets use IE Sure it runs on Windows and It was ported to Mac, and Some Unix (I tell you the truth there was a Solaris Version of IE, it was damn slow though), Netscape was ported to more platforms Including Linux and a I think a couple of BSDs. But OSS can be ported without corperates who are looking at the numbers and go Well only 1 in a 1000 people use SkyOS so there is no point in porting it while OSS someone who likes SkyOS will just port it to the platform.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.

Re:The Hidden Strength Of Open Source. by squiggleslash · 2004-12-23 02:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

That's ironic really, isn't it? The authors (and supporters) of SkyOS are hysterically opposed to FOSS, yet SkyOS wouldn't even be credible to them if it wasn't for the work done by the Free Software and Open Source communities to create cross platform applications that provide certain critical features.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:The Hidden Strength Of Open Source. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 04:31 · Score: 0

how are they hysterical? because they choose not to use an OSS license but are still able to use OSS software.

i dont get it. OSS is not about preventing someone with a different idealogy and PREFERENCE of license from using software.
Re:The Hidden Strength Of Open Source. by squiggleslash · 2004-12-23 05:40 · Score: 1

I didn't say opposition to an FOSS license constitutes hysteria, I said that, in the particular case of SkyOS, the SkyOS authors and supporters are hysterical in their opposition.
And they are. Sorry, but I've been flamed too often by them for saying that I, personally, don't plan to use it unless it either gets much stronger commercial backing or switches to a FOSS license. That position isn't extreme, it's practical, but according to SkyOS fans it makes me an "open source zealot".

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.

SkyOS by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:40 · Score: 0

SkyOS looks cool, but can you really use it for anything?

Does normal *nix type stuff compile on SkyOS?

Might be worth investigating, if the server ever gets over whatever issues it's having now...

OT: your sig by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:42 · Score: 0

Was it just a coincidence I got moderator points the first time I logged on to /. from linux?

No, there was a marked increase in your intelligence exhibited in your posts around that time. The quality of your posts improved dramatically, your karma increased accordingly, and you got mod points.

After reading a bit more... by Kjella · 2004-12-23 01:47 · Score: 1

Hehe, they used Slashdot in the Firefox screenshots, it's like they are asking for it :)

...I think they were asking for it. SunOS has been a hobby OS from 1.0 to 4.9, the first commercial version is about to be released, you can join the beta now for $$$. Slashvertising anyone?

Kjella

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:After reading a bit more... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 03:31 · Score: 0

SunOS has been a hobby OS from 1.0 to 4.9

SunOS? Don't you mean SkyOS? SunOS has been a solid, usable commercial OS for a long time, and only rather recently opened to hobbyists - but, you knew that, right?

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 01:55 · Score: 0

Oh, and having to select a location to place a bookmark everytime I decide to right click and select bookmark from the menu is damn annoying as well. I make TONS of temporary booksmarks every day and I can't be bothered sorting them.

illegal? by Gonoff · 2004-12-23 01:59 · Score: 1, Funny

You might also want to ban such things as...

Helping the police
If you help them less they will have more job security as there is more to do.

Helping war victims
They should help themselves!
This also goes for helping any disadvantaged group.

not droppinng litter.
more job security for the low paid

Helping lil' ol' ladies accross the road
they need to get their act together and do it themselves

Any form of altruism
people should help themselves. Self reliance should be encouraged.

--
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.

Nothing particularly exciting... by FuzzyDaddy · 2004-12-23 01:59 · Score: 1

It's inherently interesting that ANYONE is attempting to write a new OS. Technologically, however, I would not that their site seems to be completly slashdotted...

--
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.

I'll be impressed by Danathar · 2004-12-23 02:00 · Score: 1, Funny

When I see it ported to DOS

Re:I'll be impressed by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:26 · Score: 0

would you settle for a Ncurses bash version???
Re:I'll be impressed by SEE · 2004-12-23 06:44 · Score: 1

Actually, I wonder whether a masochist could port Firefox to DOS, between DJGPP and Microwindows . . .
Re:I'll be impressed by Danathar · 2004-12-23 10:07 · Score: 1

Already have that...it's called lynx...but then again. Gan Gecko be ported to a text browser!? LOL
Re:I'll be impressed by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 15:43 · Score: 0

why would it have to be a text browser, graphics are possible in dos.. In fact the first webbrowsers were made for dos. There were dos versions of aol, dos versions of compuserve, prodigy, etc.. and they were NOT text, they were graphical. In fact I dont recall what its called at the moment, but there is a webbrowser (graphical) for dos that is still being activly developed, just search google for dos webbrowsers or something. Im tired of seeing this garbage about dos being a text only OS. Its very capable, and had development continued, it would have much of the technologies we enjoy today, only with none of the bloat that is the Graphical Idiot Interface. (and there were graphical interfaces for dos, one being quickmenu, and the more well known dos shells, windows 3.1 through windows ME, and dont get me started on this, they DID run on top of dos (9x)).

Useless mirrors by justins · 2004-12-23 02:12 · Score: 1

It's awful to complain about what are obviously volunteer efforts, but in the spirit of the season I'm going to be Ebeneezer Scrooge. What's the point in mirroring just the first page of a web page, particularly when the first page is just fluff?

A click on the "about" button on any of these mirrors is a pretty good test of their usefulness, or lack thereof: you're not doing anybody any good if all the links go back to the slashdotted site. Anybody got a mirror which passes that simple test?

--
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by oglueck · 2004-12-23 02:14 · Score: 1

Then just hit okay and it will end up in the top folder as it would in IE.

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by oglueck · 2004-12-23 02:23 · Score: 1

The search box also does not make annoying beep sounds

Turn it off with about:config property accessibility.typeaheadfind.enablesound

config [...] should be easily accessable

Most end users don't configure anything on their applications. They don't even know they can! So having just the most important options is fair enough. Nothing is worse than an overly complicated options dialog like the one in MS Word!

There's no HTML editor anymore either.
Firefox is targeted to the end user mainly. The HTML editor is not end user ready. And it is at least questionable if an end user needs a HTML editor at all.

There is always people that don't like the taste of a new interface. That's why you have the choice. You can stick with Mozilla if you whish. Or you can hack XUL and make a GUI that suits your liking.

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:29 · Score: 0

"That is annoying because I might accidentally click it." - you can also accidentally enter "FORMAT C:" or "rm -rf /" - so what?

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by alarch · 2004-12-23 02:38 · Score: 1

I didnt read it all because i do not like to read lenghty rants, but i have to say that I LOVE the searchbar.

--
Deliriant isti Americani.

Whoa, look at those window borders! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:41 · Score: 0

SkyOS - Redefining the THICK window border!

worse is betta? by Superfluid+Blob · 2004-12-23 02:50 · Score: 1

Hey now - if God didn't mean for fish to be tested, he wouldn't have put them in schools!

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 02:56 · Score: 0

That is such a pathetic example! One cannot easily accidentally type Format C:

Putting dangerous items, like the CLOSE button next to the Maximize button in an app that doesn't ask you if you are sure you want to close the app, or an "open all in tabs" option at the bottom of a list which might have a hundred items in it, are very stupid design decisions.

Your example would be more apt if Microsoft had put a Format C: button next to the Start button on the task bar.

Fortunately for us, Microsoft actually does user interface testing, unlike the Mozilla developers who are just programmers. Didn't yuo read that article a few days ago on the Apple graphing calculator? Most programmers can't design good interfaces, and Firefox is proof of that. IE is not perfect of course, far from it, but that is because they stopped improving it years ago. Mozilla is pretty close to being perfect and that is because it mimics IE in many ways but fixes many of the things that suck about IE. Firefox just throws all that stuff learned with Mozilla and throws it in the garbage.

Microsoft used to throw up a blue screen when windowes crashed and they stopped doing that. Know why? Well I have a good guess. It is because it enraged people when they saw it. I am less enraged by the screen simply going black. So that is an improvement, and the crash data wasz just slowing down the reboot and was useless anyway.

That search sound Firefox would make when it couldn't find what I was searching for also enraged me. It is annoying. I would rather finish typing my word and not find it in the page than be suddenly startled with BLART! BLART! BLART! BLART!

This is a pretty simple concept, but the firefox guys obviously don't get it. It SOUNDS good on paper to have sound feedback, but it's a terrible idea in practice, unless maybe you can find some sound that is actually soothing to the user... but repeating it over and oever with every extra letter I type is definitely a no no.

Oh and you know what else firefox needs? It needs a way to disable sound in flash animations on websites that are used for ads that doesn't interfere with me viewing regular flash animations. Some way to detect with realtive reliability if a flash is an ad or not. It could use the size of the flash or maybe require you to select a flash with a mouse click before sound can be heard. Well that might be a bad idea, but I'm throwing ideas out there. I just started getting flash ads for frigging tupperware or something with those damn announcers like on TV when visiting websites and having a way to disable flash so that it only works when I click a certain button or something that is easily accessable on my toolbar would be great.

Xbox port? by the_riaa · 2004-12-23 03:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

So, when is somebody gonna port Firefox for the Xbox? Those of us who use all the other wonderful user built apps and homebrews on the Xbox only have one choice at the moment for web browsing: Linksbox. While decent, I'd love to have Firefox on there. Would be useful for those times where I'm too lazy to get up and use the computer. Any takers?

--
The Kingdom of Retarsia

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 03:01 · Score: 0

I support the idea of one beign able to configure their browser the way they want it. There is absolutely no reason why you should not be able to have your search bar. But at the same time there is no reason I should not be able to have my standard search dialog box that I have come to expect every app to have. Apps being standardized in how they work is a GOOD thing. Nothing sucks more than opening some media player that comes wirh your ATI card and being unable to find the CLOSE button.

Possibly interesting for Syllable developers by motown · 2004-12-23 03:04 · Score: 1

"Moreover, they will be releasing a 30-page guide on how to port these two excellent Mozilla applications to alternative operating systems soon."

Excellent. From what I've heard lately, the Syllable community for some reason seems to be having a lot more difficulty porting Firefox to their OS. The document mentioned above might be very useful to them indeed.

With all due respect to the (very impressive) work by the very few people working on SkyOS, the fact that it is a commercial project makes me quite skeptical.

I don't believe that there is space in the x86 market for another payware OS besides Windows nowadays. I think BeOS and Solaris x86 are proof of that.

So, even though SkyOS seems superior to Syllable at the moment (at least judging from the screenshots and the successful ports), I'd still prefer Syllable, even if only for the fact that it is open source.

But if you ask me, the most promising (and underestimated) smaller alternative OS project at this moment is ReactOS.

We'll see how things will turn out.

--
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"

Re:Possibly interesting for Syllable developers by Vanders · 2004-12-23 03:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm looking forward to reading the HOWTO. It should be useful. I wasn't really involved in the discussion on porting Firefox to Syllable but the information from various people on the mailing lists, which in turn came from the various documentation available from the Mozilla guys, was that in order to port FF we would have to port the entire Mozilla codebase, starting at XPCOM and working up. That is obviously not the case; Robert has ported FF directly to SkyOS, so we must have taken a wrong turn at some point. I beleive that Roberts port is actually the first port os Firefox that was not already based on an existing Mozilla port, so maybe the Mozilla documentation was wrong? I don't know.

Anyway, fair play to Robert for completing the port. At this point Syllable has a new version of ABrowse which is based on a much newer KHTML, and once Robert releases his HOWTO I'm sure we'll see some activity in porting FF to Syllable too.

--
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Re:Possibly interesting for Syllable developers by rfc1394 · 2004-12-24 08:43 · Score: 1

I don't believe that there is space in the x86 market for another payware OS besides Windows nowadays. I think BeOS and Solaris x86 are proof of that.
I agree; I'm not going to pay money for some inferior operating system with less capacity and applications than Linux or Free BSD; we've already got Windows for a payware-only OS; we don't need more. I'd rather go with something like Syllable or Reactos than with yet another OS having near-zero market penetration that you also have to pay for to obtain as a means of adding insult to injury. A waste of effort as far as I'm concerned.

--
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.

Syllable by SWroclawski · 2004-12-23 03:12 · Score: 1

If this were ported to Syllable, I'd be a lot more enthusiastic.

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by Drantin · 2004-12-23 03:19 · Score: 1

Isn't Nvu supposed to be based on Mozilla Composer?

--
Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)

Being a beta tester and all... by Gacek · 2004-12-23 03:37 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm on the betatesters team and additionally I'm on the translators team at SkyOS.org which is working terribly slowly at the moment, we've underestimated the slashdot effect I'm afraid. Still we're happy with the publicity SkyOS gets. It's becoming a great alternative OS for the home desktop users. For $30 dollars you can be a betatester, you'll receive all the betas and the final product when it comes out. You can get it here http://www.skyos.org/getskyos.php (when the slashdot storm is over).

Re:Being a beta tester and all... by bhima · 2004-12-23 08:21 · Score: 1

I've been tempted to try this out (If only because I live near him). Do you know if anyone has it running in Virtual PC on a dual G5 PowerMac?

--
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Re:Flamebait, what the hell? by flinxmeister · 2004-12-23 04:12 · Score: 1

See, this is why Firefox will never get more market share than IE...

If there's something wrong with it and you point it out, you are silenced.

Yeah, IE got it's marketshare from "listening to users". It encouraged people to bring up every little thing they didn't like and immediately integrated it into the product. Nobody is ever "silenced" in the world of IE. That's why they have their market share.

It appears that you haven't been "silenced" since you've posted at least twice on this subject. If people can't criticize your evaluations then you are guilty of the very thing you accuse others of.

My message is not flamebait, they are legitimate complaints that I would like to see addressed. I only complain about it because I would like it to get to the point where it is good.

Every end user I have converted to Firefox loves it. With all due respect your complaints do not reach the level of 'improving the product'. They're kind of piddly and inconsequential.

Firefox seems to be very extensible via the extensions, so why don't you fix these problems yourself? If it's a legitimate improvement people should flock to it.

SkyOS is not Open Source by ZephyrXero · 2004-12-23 04:49 · Score: 1

If you look at Sky's official FAQ it says clear as day:

"5. Is SkyOS open-source?
No. SkyOS is a closed-source operating system."

Here's the google cache if you'd like to look. Once I found that out, I quit caring...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."

Nice by justins · 2004-12-23 05:12 · Score: 1

Score:5, Strawman

But why would it be exciting?

Yes, it's a great job on his part, few of us here would be able to pull it off, but why should we get excited? What does it offer? Just because someone doesn't get excited about it doesn't mean he dimisses his work.

Did you read the post he was responding to? The post was quite dismissive. You're focusing on the one word "exicitng" and intentionally missing the point.

To me it needs to offer something unique to be something else than a hobby project.

Slashdot has entries on hobby projects all the time. The "exciting" part is subjective but that's no reason to crap on those sorts of projects.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

You're wrong.

--
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga

Re:Flamebait, what the hell? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-23 05:17 · Score: 0

No I haven't been silenced, I have only been modded flamebait the lowest possible ranking which will prevent 90% of slashdot readers from seeing my informative post on what annoyances they will encounter if they install Firefox like I did.

And Microsoft doesn't NEED to listen to their users, because they have a MONOPOLY ON THE OS.

Firefox does NOT have this LUXURY.

Mozilla was crap for a long time and only the most recent versions have finally fixed the slowdown bugs that caused large bookmark files to take forever to open and scroll through. I posted a bug on that like two years ago and it took two years for someone to fix something which was a major issue.

I've talked with the Mozilla developers before and seen their attitude. A forum I read would have a link to a jpeg file which when clicked would display in IE but not Mozilla. They refused to fix it because the problem they said was with the mime type the forum was using. But I as an end user do not care about their stupid mime type standards. I want a browser which does it's best to figure out what it should do in a given situation. If a file has a jpeg extension then it should not be displaying it as text, especially if it has a jpeg header in it to boot. Microsoft knows this, but the Mozilla developers have their heads up their asses and would like the world to be perfect and everyone follow standards perfectly. Well the world isn't perfect. If people don't follow a standard regularly, then GIVE IN and follow what they're doing. Especially if you're competing with someone who has 90% of the market share and people don't care if their webpages don't work with you.

The problem with Firefox and Mozilla, is that they are built by people who have strong IDEOLOGIES, and a poor grasp of REALITY. Mozilla is better than Firefox because it works like Windows. I don't care if you think the Mac interface is better, I expect an app running in windows to BEHAVE like my other windows apps. It does me no good if an app behaves completely differently from all my other apps. What next, force people to use one button, or force them to use mouse magic movement signs whatever they're called to do stuff because ideoligcally it's better in their opinion?

I am reminded of the episode of the Simpsons where all the intelligent people decided to change the town's clocks to METRIC TIME.

Re:Firefox is not there yet. by emurphy42 · 2004-12-23 05:58 · Score: 1

Putting dangerous items, like the CLOSE button next to the Maximize button in an app that doesn't ask you if you are sure you want to close the app, or an "open all in tabs" option at the bottom of a list which might have a hundred items in it, are very stupid design decisions.

If a folder has a hundred items in it, then this is only a risk for a few of those hundred. More to the point, if a folder has a hundred items in it, then you should have organized things into sub-folders long ago.

I use "open in tabs" on purpose (to view my daily webcomics, in roughly four groups of eight apiece) and I damn well want it at the bottom of each folder menu. Of course, if there's an option somewhere for users to turn it off, then that's fine and makes us both happy (or at least happier).

Nvu by glazou · 2004-12-23 06:02 · Score: 1

This is excellent news for Nvu, the Wysiwyg HTML editor,since it's v0.70 will be based on Firefox 1.0. Porting it should be reasonably easy now :-)

Daniel, Nvu engineering lead

Re:Flamebait, what the hell? by emurphy42 · 2004-12-23 06:19 · Score: 1

No I haven't been silenced, I have only been modded flamebait the lowest possible ranking which will prevent 90% of slashdot readers from seeing my informative post on what annoyances they will encounter if they install Firefox like I did.

This is easy to avoid, though-- just tweak your phrasing a bit, so that you don't present the connotation of "I'm loud, I'm rude, I'm right, and anyone who doesn't like it is a jackass".

Likely to be modded down: "This change sucks!"

Less likely to be modded down: "I don't like this change because of X, and there's no easy way (I don't consider about:config to be easy) to change it."

It's not too difficult for a reader to perform the mental translation from the former to the latter. But will most of them bother? Should most of them bother? Perform the translation yourself and you should receive a much nicer reception.

On the MIME type issue, it occurs to me now that Options - Downloads - File Types should allow adding new entries - with "assume MIME type X and open inline" as one of the capabilities. Perhaps a stock set of entries for all the image types that FF can display inline without needing a plugin? Examining byte headers isn't out of the question, either (look at the 'file' command in *n*x).

Nice website by Dejohn · 2004-12-23 07:25 · Score: 1

So, is is running from a SkyOS box?

Grounded by Vampyre_Dark · 2004-12-23 08:51 · Score: 1

I just tried to connect to SkyOS's site. Apparently, they've been grounded.

I feel like... by Hobadee · 2004-12-23 20:06 · Score: 1

I feel like the Allies the first time they saw the ME-262 with a turbofan in it! WTF!? Where did this "SkyOS" come from anyways!? It looks pretty dang good, so how did this single guy do it on his own? Why hasn't Linux had a nice jump like this at all? WTF mate!?

--
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.

30 year old trolls never cease to amaze me by Vryl · 2004-12-24 00:14 · Score: 1

(I really can't tell the trolls any more. The 'unix is a stupid 30 year old idea' troll is so old that mebbe you youngsters ain't seen it before)

As Henry Spencer put it: "Those who fail to understand Unix are destined to reimplement it - poorly."

Ideas that work well tend to stick around. Check out things like Writing, Zero, The Wheel ...

Unix has a set of abstractions that still manage to fit most applications, and are being extended into new ones.

I notice that a relatively young OS (NT) only incorporated some age old ideas from UNIX into its version 5 release around the year 2000 (symlinks and file mounts, would you believe it?).

Having said all that, it looks like Mr SkyOS has learnt a few lessons and the fact that he has managed to get firefox and others to work is pretty damn impressive, but his OS is doomed, doomed, doomed.

What the hell is it good for, and why should I pay money for things that I can get better, for free?

His work is amazing, but his business plan is from Mars.

Re:30 year old trolls never cease to amaze me by Momoru · 2004-12-24 04:47 · Score: 1

haha, i dont think you quite understood my first post, but you have a similar attitude to the first person. I was not bashing unix first of all. I agree its a decent operating system, and it has its uses. However, there are alot of people on slashdot, like the original poster, and it sounds like you are as well that have the attitude of "if its not unix/linux related/based its not cool and not worth my time". With that kind of attitude we would still be using vacumme tubes and the horse and carriage. While I agree that "just because something is new its not necessarily cool", by the same token "just because its been around for 30 years" doesnt mean it is and forever will be the best. And yes, why should you pay for something when you get it for free? Well companies like RedHat have shown that people are willing to pay a little more for something they can get for free if it offers more features or is packaged nicely. At this point obviously SkyOS is inferior to Linux, Windows and MacOS, but one should not shoot down new original ideas simply because they are new and different. Every good idea has to start from humble beginnings, so I am not trying to be a Unix sucks troll, in fact I run linux (in addition to Windows), all i'm saying and continue to say is that it is possible to come up with a better idea for an operating system then unix/windows/macos.
Re:30 year old trolls never cease to amaze me by Vryl · 2004-12-24 13:00 · Score: 1

macos is unix, btw ...

OSS is more commercially interesting ... by konmaskisin · 2004-12-24 10:42 · Score: 1

for most people. SkyOS is closed source and therefore less interesting ... lots of commerce is going on in OSS land in case you haven't noticed and nobody says it's bad except Microsoft and maybe Sun ... but then again Sun is sponsoring loads of OSS development.

From a OSS is more interesting for most people (except MS shareolders), since they can be involved more directly.

SkyOS - Low Factor by schestowitz · 2004-12-25 19:42 · Score: 1

I have had about a dozen different operating systems requesting data from my Web site. Never once did SkyOS come up. I'd imagine it's more of a wannabe O/S so the port is of merely any practicality, if any.

--
My Linux - (L)ove (I)s (N)ever (U)tterly eXPensive

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Thunderbird and Firefox Ported to SkyOS

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