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'Something' Cleaning Mars Rover

bluenirve writes "'Something' has been cleaning the solar panels of the Mars rover Opportunity. "NASA's Mars rover Opportunity seems to have stumbled into something akin to a carwash that has left its solar panels much cleaner than those of its twin rover, Spirit. A Martian carwash would account for a series of unexpected boosts in the electrical power produced by Opportunity's solar panels.""

355 comments

  1. Gnus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure it's gnus. *nods firmly*

  2. hmmm... by spawnofbill · · Score: 0

    Maybe.... Wind? You'd think that NASA would know that mars does have an atmosphere, and therefore can produce some kind of wind, which could be blowing sand and dirt off of the panels.

    1. Re:hmmm... by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

      You would think they would have built a wiper to sweap the dust off, or maybe some high pressure air hose or fan. Or thy could have added an ability to vibrate the dust off. We all know 'they could have' but they would have also needed approval for this, but they would not get approved because that would mean the project would run on for much longer, meaning more budget money, and no one wants a rover that last for 5 years on the surface. Its all politics, if the engineers had 100% say, they would have designed the bot to work on mars for 20-30years, even with dead batteries, just make it work in the day and smart software to know where its up to if it looses power.

      --
      Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    2. Re:hmmm... by Bronz · · Score: 2


      Maybe.... You didn't read the article did you?

      "At the time, the team speculated that wind may have swept the dust off the panels or frost may have caused it to clump, exposing more of the panels. ..."

    3. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, that's too logical of an explanation.

      It must have been those damn Martians. First they decide to "sweep dust off of our rovers" just for the hell of it, now what are they going to do? I'm sick and tired of their jokes.

      Are you going to steal our tin foil hats? Is that it? Is that what you want? I KNOW YOU'RE OUT THERE, COME AND GET MY STUPID HAT! I dare you.

    4. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well if the wind does carry the dust on to the panel, can you expect the same wind to carry it off the panel instead of add more?

    5. Re:hmmm... by Moridineas · · Score: 3, Informative

      Jeez, RTFA :-p That's exactly what they suggest.

    6. Re:hmmm... by cmowire · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it's more the case that the cost, primarily in weight, of adding the required fan, wiper, or other cleaning system outweighs the value added with more scientific instruments. And given that the panels are relatively fragile (remember, every gram of mass has a dollar amount attatched to it) you'd need to be awfully careful -- wipers are out.

      Also, it's something else that can fail. Sure, it sounds like a good idea, but if you ruin the solar panels halfway into the base mission because it doesn't work, people start looking really dumb. Or if the shape of grains of martian soil is not quite the same as earth soil and it ends up not working. Or there's something else that might fail, you leave a backup for it out, and then look really stupid when that part fails and you've still got plenty of solar energy.

      The biggest problem, of course, is that the designers of the probe are hamstrung by rather unreasonable launch costs that are showing little signs of getting better and are prevented by vast armies of rather stupid anti-nuclear-power whackos from using a 5 year power source. Oh yeah, and most of the NASA budget is reserved for a space shuttle that is far too expensive and has not been able to be retired and replaced due to a variety of issues.

      But, in general, it's much better to get a different assortment of tools on a different probe in a completely different location every 2 years, with a chance to have design improvements, instead of having two massive probes that last for 5 years and can only be launched every 10 years.

    7. Re:hmmm... by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sheesh.

      The engineers decided not to build something to shake off the solar panels, because that would make the darn thing heavier -- which woule mean they would have had to leave something else off.

      Politics had nothing to do with it.

    8. Re:hmmm... by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's a possible explanation, although the martian atmosphere is so much thinner than earth, so even with pretty strong wind speeds, it will do significantly less than on Earth.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    9. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe.... You didn't read the article did you?

      You're new here, aren't you?

    10. Re:hmmm... by Tap-Sa · · Score: 1

      NASA can ill afford to jump into such obvious conclusions, it has $16B to blow.

    11. Re:hmmm... by Squareball · · Score: 1

      I think it's some one from the airforce coming out of our secret base on mars to clean off the rover at night!

    12. Re:hmmm... by thoughtcriminal87 · · Score: 3, Funny

      wait, there's an article?

    13. Re:hmmm... by Jester99 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You would think they would have built a wiper to sweap the dust off, or maybe some high pressure air hose or fan. Or thy could have added an ability to vibrate the dust off.

      I got to ask a NASA engineer about this once in person.

      He said they considered it. But then you have to remember that each of these things has moving parts, which are prone to getting dust in them and clogging, or breaking, or whatever. If you wanted, you could also have multiple layers of solar panels and when one got too dusty, it could "molt" and then the fresh panel would be exposed. They've thought of each of these things.

      The problem is that they all add complexity and weight. When you're trying to hurtle something at a planet and have it touch down for landing, making the damn thing bulkier doesn't exactly add to reliability.

      If your robot vibrates, then that could loosen screws and the whole thing could rattle itself into a pile of scrap metal.

      If your robot blows itself off with an air hose, then you need to have a filter system so you know you're not blowing dusty air on it. But filters get clogged, so eventually the hose system would stop working, and the panels would get dusty.

      If your robot molts panels, you then need to add extra motors to lift off a given layer. But these are heavy, and could break. Heavier = more power draw to move around. So if the motors malfunctioned, it wouldn't have gone as far as it would've if it only had a single layer of panels -- meaning you'd get less exploring done.

      Wiper motors ... same problem.

      Nothing political about it.

    14. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe.... Wind? You'd think that NASA would know

      Oh my god. Read the article already. OF COURSE IT'S WIND. This is was NASA has concluded.

      Slashdot moderators: Please explain why such a thoughtless post can get a +5 insightful moderation? It's clear he did not even skim the article.

    15. Re:hmmm... by DJStealth · · Score: 1

      Doesn't frost imply water? (or some other type of liquid that gets frozen?)

    16. Re:hmmm... by cmowire · · Score: 1

      There's no question that there's water ice on Mars, folks have mostly been making noises about liquid water.

      But CO2 makes good frost, too.

    17. Re:hmmm... by cot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What about several layers of thin clear plastic that's tensioned?

      You have each layer held down with tabs,and release them one by one as the cells accumulate dust. The released plastic curls up at one end of the cells when released.

      You could probably do this at least several times.

      --

    18. Re:hmmm... by Jester99 · · Score: 1

      I'm not an engineer there. I'm a college student. The point I was trying to make was that they thought of several mechanisms by which the surfaces could be restored, and they rejected them all on engineering merits, not political ones.

      If you've got newer, better ideas, I'm sure the engineers there would love to have you on board, as, after all, they aren't rejecting their current ideas based on political reasons, but for engineering reasons.

    19. Re:hmmm... by bynary · · Score: 1

      That's just what NASA wants to do...polute Mars with Seran wrap.

      --
      http://www.bynarystudio.com
    20. Re:hmmm... by cot · · Score: 1

      I don't know, I just thought I'd throw it out. It's quite possible they've thought about and rejected those sorts of solutions.

      Really, I'm just hoping for some positive moderation so I can include a link to this post on my NASA job application.

      --

    21. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Sounds a lot like what they use in motorcross.They have multiple layers on the goggles that can be pulled off. Also the cameras they put on race cars use this, but its a continuous roll.

    22. Re:hmmm... by Magus424 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well we're already polluting it with probes and extra craters ;)

      --
      -- Gone Crazy, Back Later
    23. Re:hmmm... by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 4, Funny

      Martian gravity is lower than Earth's, and dust should be lighter and hence easier to blow off. Or shake off - couldn't NASA have built in some way to have the vehicle shake itself like a dog? Or at least jerk forward, stop, jerk backwards. At which point the Martians would groan and wait for the probe to start spouting rap lyrics.

    24. Re:hmmm... by cot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, I was actually thinking of something that didn't come completely off, but sat off to the side, either crinkled or rolled up. So it'd have to be stretched to cover the cells(hence the "tensioned" part of the original post)

      the continues film on rollers idea another person posted is nice too. As long as the thing in front of the cells is clear, how bad can failure be? If it doesn't come off, it's no worse than if it weren't there.

      you'd just have to be damn sure it didn't come off completely and jam in some other system, but i think that's true for just about every part of the rover.

      --

    25. Re:hmmm... by bani · · Score: 1

      A transparent layer of plastic which cycles around the cells (goes over the cells, through a slot in the panel, underneath, and back up through another slot) in a conveyor belt fashion. Underneath, you have an array of brushes to clean the belt.

      Whenever it gets dirty, you just run the belt to clean it off.

      Cheap, lightweight, reliable, and if it fails well then you have the same runtime as if you had no cleaning system at all, so zero overall loss.

    26. Re:hmmm... by bani · · Score: 1

      Yep. works real well too. And it's very reliable in extreme conditions.

    27. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      Slashdot moderators: Please explain

      Of course we'd like the moderators to have some basic understanding of the topic, but we'd also like them to act in a manner representative of the /. crowd. Makes for an interesting dilemma.

    28. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah obviously its wind or just less dust in the atmosphere than expected.

      What if they had some sort of compressed gas charge or something to clean the panels periodically. Something that would be quite compact and could be triggered with very little power. It could add significantly to the service life of the panels, as demonstrated by these two rovers.

    29. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's an even simpler idea: since the solar panels were designed to fold up anyway, why not simply turn them upside down and let the dust fall off?

    30. Re:hmmm... by new_here_arent_you · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're new here, aren't you? No, I am.

    31. Re:hmmm... by ChuckleBug · · Score: 1

      Its all politics, if the engineers had 100% say, they would have designed the bot to work on mars for 20-30years, even with dead batteries, just make it work in the day and smart software to know where its up to if it looses power.

      I love it when somone just pulls stuff like this out of their ass and decides it's true. Why 20-30 years? As long as you're making stuff up, make it 100! Do I hear 1000? And it could run on cold fusion and and turn into a helicopter, too! Stupid politicians -- they ruin everything.

      Why do people insist on acting like they know the inner workings of something like NASA when, in fact, they know precisely squat?

    32. Re:hmmm... by __aatskl8715 · · Score: 1

      The problem with this idea is that it comes at the expense of efficiency. Plastic films absorb light. I'm sure that NASA has already done their best to minimize the thickness of any coatings or films to begin with and the energy saved by not having any films outweighs the energy lost over time by letting the panels get a little dirty.

    33. Re:hmmm... by stupidfoo · · Score: 1

      SUPRISE! there's static electricity on Mars too

    34. Re:hmmm... by QuantumFTL · · Score: 4, Informative

      What about several layers of thin clear plastic that's tensioned? You have each layer held down with tabs,and release them one by one as the cells accumulate dust. The released plastic curls up at one end of the cells when released.

      I work for Steve Squyres (the Principle Investigator) and he said that they considered this option as well, and it was prone to failure.

      Looks like they made the right call after all!

      Cheers,
      Justin

    35. Re:hmmm... by Albinoman · · Score: 1

      So what youre trying to say is that the best way to amend this problem is to do nothing at all? Let it run its course and cripple the rover?

      I can think of a couple small, low power solution that could be easily attempted. They are looking at the soil very close. It wouldnt be very hard to find soil or make soil similar to what is on Mars. Its absolutely amazing that they can softly drop a remote controlled robotic science lab on a rock 34 million miles away but they cant figure out how do make a small Martian windshield wiper. The benefits are undeniable.

    36. Re:hmmm... by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      then why do they not take a cue from NASCAR and Motocross and have thin mylar tear offs on the panels? that technology has existed cince 1980.

      one on each would ass less than 1/2 gram of weight and using one of the motors that already exists for folding the panels out to perform the tear off would solve the motor problem.

      There really is no excuse except maybe that the materials available for the thin tear offs may reduce the output way too much or might react badly with the higher UV index there and yellow really quickly.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    37. Re:hmmm... by iNetRunner · · Score: 1

      Wonder if it is too ineffective to use an orbiting satellite(s) with solar panels and then beam the energy as microwaves down to the landers. For one the microwave receiver antenna assembly might be too big (I know pretty much nothing about this stuff anyway..), and if non-stationary satellites are used then the sending window might be too small for the required amount of energy.

      --
      Store with salt
    38. Re:hmmm... by Mr+Z · · Score: 1

      Consistent breeze might deposit, whereas gusts might end up removing...

    39. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect that you might want to change your .sig before sending an application referencing these posts to any potential job. ;-)

    40. Re:hmmm... by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      *I* think there's a sympathetic Martian up there (Marvin, is that you?) holding a Squeegee and making faces at his mates behind the cameras.
      :b

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
  3. o_0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pesky Damn martians, washing our rovers, well its time to bomb them....

  4. They looked for the dirt by Adam9 · · Score: 5, Funny

    When NASA scientists had the rover examine its solar panels for dirt, it replied, "Nothing for you to see here. Please move along."

    1. Re:They looked for the dirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's this "Nothing for you to see here. Please move along." thing anyway?

    2. Re:They looked for the dirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      What's this "Nothing for you to see here. Please move along." thing anyway?

      An old South Park Reference.

      An occassional error in Slash code.

      A tired old joke.

    3. Re:They looked for the dirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's all this, then?

    4. Re:They looked for the dirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      an "error" that just so happens to only manifest itself before a story has any comments. I think it's just a way to stop bots from getting FP all the time.

    5. Re:They looked for the dirt by rob_squared · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just wait until the guy selling oranges comes along...

      --
      I don't get it.
    6. Re:They looked for the dirt by matth · · Score: 1

      I thought it was from star wars?

  5. Yesterday's News. by Vaevictis666 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dupe from Yesterday

    1. Re:Yesterday's News. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CmdrTaco's too busy reading Fark to notice these things...

    2. Re: Yesterday's News. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny


      > Dupe from Yesterday

      Yeah, but the panels are still being cleaned today!

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    3. Re:Yesterday's News. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And to think people wonder why everyone doesn't pay money for Slashdot...

    4. Re:Yesterday's News. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was posted a month or two ago aswell...

    5. Re:Yesterday's News. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm. Yesterdays news didn't show up in my RSS viewer. How strange.
      Thanks for the dupe :)

    6. Re: Yesterday's News. by elmegil · · Score: 5, Funny

      Something is cleaning the editor's memory of the past. Too bad it doesn't work more quickly.

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    7. Re: Yesterday's News. by sharkey · · Score: 1

      Well, there is still tomorrow. Third time is the charm, as they say.

      Still, since this is Slashdot, it's more likely: Thrid tiem is teh crahm.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    8. Re: Yesterday's News. by DJStealth · · Score: 1
      Actually, they're not being cleaned today.
      If the crater does provide a natural, wind-driven car wash then Opportunity's days as a clean machine could be at an end. On 12 December, it drove out of the crater to explore the terrain beyond. "If in three or four months Opportunity is still operating and hasn't had another power boost that would suggest the crater was the key," Erickson says.
      At least assuming that the crater is the martian car wash. If this is the case, the rover can always go back to the crater for a wash and recharge, full service station. You know, I've always wondered why there are car washes at gas stations. The gas stations actually evolved from the car washes. The rover goes to clean itself and gets 'recharged' in the process.
    9. Re: Yesterday's News. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't want it working more quickly, otherwise we'd end up with the same day dupes again. Don't make me break out Roland P's many, many blog posts....

      -Steve

    10. Re:Yesterday's News. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only does /. dup stories from other sites, they dup their own! Keep up the duplicating!

    11. Re:Yesterday's News. by iamlucky13 · · Score: 1

      Actually, isn't this the 4th or 5th time this has been mentioned on Slashdot? I seem to remember a couple articles several weeks ago when JPL first commented on it.

    12. Re: Yesterday's News. by MissTuxie · · Score: 1

      if they used Auri Shield, this wouldn't be news.

  6. Wind maybe? by confusion · · Score: 0, Redundant
    Couldn't be unusually strong winds in that area at night, could it?

    Nah, probably a martian.

    Jerry
    http://www.syslog.org/

    1. Re:Wind maybe? by Control+Group · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The reason wind isn't the obvious answer it seems like is that the Martian atmosphere is so thin. I remember seeing (on Discovery HD, IIRC) a wind tunnel simulation NASA was doing to study dust devils on Mars. They set up the chamber at Martian atmospheric pressure, then cranked up a fan to blow some insanely high wind speed. The fine dust on the floor didn't even budge; there just wasn't enough air to make anything happen.

      The only way they were able to replicate the observed dust devil effects was to toss larger pebbles into the chamber, kicking the dust up into the wind.

      Anyway, the point is that wind is still the most probable cause, but it's not quite the obvious slam-dunk that it superficially seems.

      --

      Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    2. Re:Wind maybe? by bluenirve · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but Spirit's panels don't get clean. My guess: some martian has a crush on it.

    3. Re:Wind maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Static build up during the day attracts dirt and particles, and during the night, when the machine shuts down most of the way the static charge bleeds away, and martian wind blows the dust off.

    4. Re:Wind maybe? by Botty · · Score: 0

      An unemployed smelly Martian hobo, that just comes along with a towel and a some window cleaner while the rover is stopped looking at rocks and just holds his hand out expecting some change? Like the hobos that wash your windows in the cities.

    5. Re:Wind maybe? by ScottMaxwell · · Score: 1
      Anyway, the point is that wind is still the most probable cause, but it's not quite the obvious slam-dunk that it superficially seems.

      While wind is the most plausible explanation, it is not the most amusing.

      --

      ``Life results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.'' -- Richard Dawkins
    6. Re:Wind maybe? by Tap-Sa · · Score: 1

      NASA forgot to tell the martian atmosphere that it cannot move dust.

    7. Re:Wind maybe? by b4rtm4n · · Score: 1

      Also they forgot that terran gravity is just a wee bit stronger than martian gravity.

      --
      "goatse? What's that? Anyone have a link?" - AC
    8. Re:Wind maybe? by Control+Group · · Score: 1
      Did you read what I wrote? It was dust movement on Mars that NASA was studying. I am aware of this, as were they, which is why I also said that wind was still the most likely cause. No one is claiming that anything other than wind causes the Martian dust storms/dust devils.

      I was merely pointing out that it's not unreasonable to be surprised at it happening, since tests replicating as closely as possible the conditions believed to obtain on the Martian surface indicate that it's less likely than it seems.

      --

      Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    9. Re:Wind maybe? by Tap-Sa · · Score: 1

      Sure did. But since we have clear evidence of huge sand storms and propably smaller ones cleaning solar cells then maybe there was something wrong with NASAs wind tunnel setup? Did they simulate all aspects of martian atmosphere, the composition and temperature too?

    10. Re:Wind maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but the dust is obviously *getting* onto the screens in the first place by means of the wind, so what the wind moved once, the winds can move again.

    11. Re:Wind maybe? by WhiteBandit · · Score: 1

      By "wee bit", you mean stronger by about 300% right? ;)

    12. Re:Wind maybe? by i41Overlord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They set up the chamber at Martian atmospheric pressure, then cranked up a fan to blow some insanely high wind speed. The fine dust on the floor didn't even budge; there just wasn't enough air to make anything happen.

      Did they decrease the gravity also? Of course not. That's a huge factor right there. We have more than double the gravity of Mars.

    13. Re:Wind maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations, you're smarter than NASA. I'm sure there's nothing you don't know about fluid mechanics.

    14. Re:Wind maybe? by yobbo · · Score: 1

      Yeah well, Beagle 2 kicked up a bit of dust when it.. erm... "landed" :O

    15. Re:Wind maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The wind giveth, the wind taketh away...

  7. Even Mars has homeless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Isn't it clear that homeless Martians have newspapers to clean the panels too?

  8. That Martian is going to get pissed.... by Neologic · · Score: 5, Funny

    That Martian is going to get pissed when the probe doesn't give him a tip.

    --

    "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

    1. Re:That Martian is going to get pissed.... by SoSueMe · · Score: 1

      Martian squeegee=kids?

    2. Re:That Martian is going to get pissed.... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Giuliani had to put all of them somewhere.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:That Martian is going to get pissed.... by Richard+Frost · · Score: 1

      So in other words:

      1) Clean solar panels.
      2) ???
      3) Profit!!

    4. Re:That Martian is going to get pissed.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm waiting for the photochop of Marvin out there with a squeege :D

    5. Re:That Martian is going to get pissed.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Probe."
      "Tip."

      There's a joke in there somewhere...

    6. Re:That Martian is going to get pissed.... by BillX · · Score: 1

      There's nothing funny about oscilloscopes.

      --
      Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    7. Re:That Martian is going to get pissed.... by tgrigsby · · Score: 1

      slap!

      Shutup, Beavis!

      --
      *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
  9. Just goes to show... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Women are from Mars.

    1. Re:Just goes to show... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time you knew a woman to clean windows let alone solar panels?

    2. Re:Just goes to show... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my wife is out on the roof cleaning the solar panels right now. that's why I love her!

    3. Re:Just goes to show... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh? My G.F. doesn't know how to clean windows.
      I'm always having to run adaware and SpyBot S&D
      to clean up her browsing mess.

    4. Re:Just goes to show... by aztektum · · Score: 1
      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    5. Re:Just goes to show... by CompGeek01 · · Score: 1

      Go go male mods!

  10. Hmmm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Golgafrinchans maybe?

  11. Nitrogen by panxerox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've always wondered why they never put a little bottlie of compressed nitrogen on the rover with nozzels pointed at the panels. Press a switch on earth and pffftt! dust be gone!

    --
    "It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
    1. Re:Nitrogen by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps it's because an exploding bottle of nitrogen would probably total the probe. Always consider what failure of the doo-dad would do to the overall mission before including the doo-dad. Dirty solar panels are one thing, shredded panels is another.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    2. Re:Nitrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spraying nitrogen or any material for that matter would contaminate the planet and invalidate the whole mission and future missions. So one may ask, "Why not just install 'windshield wipers'?" and the answer is that you can't. The reason is because the dust on Mars is so fine that it actually digs itself into the solar panels, so just wiping them off won't do.

    3. Re:Nitrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A canister of nitrogen on each of 2-3 rovers at a given time isn't going to contaminate the planet in any significant way or invalidate results.

      The problem isn't the dust but the material the solar panels are made of. If the dust was truly that fine and harder than the solar panels, it'd be an excellent polishing material in its own right. The problem is the panels are made of easily scratchable, aka soft, material where large or small particles can easily get embedded in. Weight is a big issue in the delivery of and use of a rover on a remote planet. Not to mention the use of another motorized function like wipers would diminish the energy efficiency of the rover.

    4. Re:Nitrogen by gmenhorn · · Score: 1

      Or maybe $5 windshield wipers would do?

    5. Re:Nitrogen by WhiteBandit · · Score: 1

      Or maybe not:


      Steve Squyres, the Mars rovers principal investigator, said the rovers' designers deemed the additional weight of adding wipers or blowers to the solar panels was not worthwhile. Instead they increased the size of the panels to maximize the power input.

    6. Re:Nitrogen by WhiteBandit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hmm, I fubar'd my link. Anyway, my post SHOULD have said:

      Or maybe not:


      Steve Squyres, the Mars rovers principal investigator, said the rovers' designers deemed the additional weight of adding wipers or blowers to the solar panels was not worthwhile. Instead they increased the size of the panels to maximize the power input.


    7. Re:Nitrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One reason is the increased weight and mechanical complexity. Another reason is that it was not known if the particles would be electrostatically attracted to the solar panels. If this was the case blowing or brushing off the panels may not do any good. It might even result in the deposition of more particles on the surface.

    8. Re:Nitrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did it not occur to you that he might be joking?

    9. Re:Nitrogen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Always consider what failure of the doo-dad would do to the overall mission before including the doo-dad."

      In my no so humble opinion, NASA engineers think TOO much about failure and consequences. I say worry a tenth of what they do now and make 100 times as many.

      If you wanted to flip a penny and have it land heads up on the floor, you could spend thousands of dollars creating a machine to flip a penny in such a way that it lands heads up. Or, you could spend a dime and buy 10 more pennies.

    10. Re:Nitrogen by shiftless · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What could possibly happen to cause a failure of the bottle that wouldn't also annihilate the probe?

    11. Re:Nitrogen by Punboy · · Score: 1

      Technically it would take a very long time for the dust to be gone. nearly an hour from button press to cleaning. :-p

      --
      If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
    12. Re:Nitrogen by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Or maybe $5 windshield wipers would do?"

      What amazes me about this suggestion (which has been posted ad nauseum) is the assumption that NASA engineers didn't consider this.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    13. Re:Nitrogen by Trepalium · · Score: 1

      You haven't read enough BOFH.

      --
      I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
    14. Re:Nitrogen by black+mariah · · Score: 0

      Go watch Apollo 13 again. I think you missed it.

      --
      'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    15. Re:Nitrogen by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1

      I would perhaps agree with you -- if the thing NASA is worried about is insignificant. NASA has a funny tendency to worry about everything with equal fervor. In this case, though, the probes have already significantly outlived their original planned mission lifetime. Putting some sort of nitrogen tank on the thing to clean off the panels would be foolishly dangerous, not to mention heavy. The potential gains are not worth the potential risk.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
  12. Bum Martian window washer? by signingis · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is NASA going to have a stinky, unwashed, unshaven martian approach the camera and ask for change?

    --

    I prefer a void in conversation to a vacuous one.
    1. Re:Bum Martian window washer? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Is NASA going to have a stinky, unwashed, unshaven martian approach the camera and ask for change?

      You got something against Martians dressed like coders and *nix admins?

    2. Re:Bum Martian window washer? by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 0
      Oh, c'mon! Grandparent gets modded funny instead of redundant but the parent post gets nothing for being funny and unique?

      Someone throw some mod points up there.

      --

      kurzweil_freak

      5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

      Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

  13. I don't know why by eclectro · · Score: 3, Interesting


    they just didn't put a windshield wiper with a mister on the rovers.

    Then there would be water on Mars!

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    1. Re:I don't know why by gnuman99 · · Score: 1
      Then there would be water on Mars!

      s/would/is/

    2. Re:I don't know why by utexaspunk · · Score: 1

      Then there is be water on Mars!

      huh?

    3. Re:I don't know why by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 1

      "...then there would be water on Mars!"

      Indeed

    4. Re:I don't know why by gnuman99 · · Score: 1

      See Google for answers. Not a lot of it, but there is water on Mars.

    5. Re:I don't know why by quint777 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I bet there's already water on mars. Well.... only if the contractors have hooked it up from the main at the 6 Starbucks they've already started construction on.

    6. Re:I don't know why by utexaspunk · · Score: 1

      duh- i was making fun of your misformed substitution. i guess you wouldn't get a joke anyway, because you clearly didn't recognize that the original post was a joke as well...

  14. it's obviously love on mars by swschrad · · Score: 2, Funny

    maybe one of the "lost" landers has a crush on opportunity ;) OK, enough slashdot, back to the egg nog....

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:it's obviously love on mars by Punboy · · Score: 1

      Nah, the martian AI robots are hitting on Opportunity. "I'd like to clean HER solar panels if you know what I mean."

      --
      If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
  15. Martian kids by artemis67 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Gotta watch out for those Martian kids and their squeegees. They always try to hustle a buck out of you at the stoplights.

  16. You'd think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that NASA would have installed some sort of wiper, so that it could clean it's own solar panels in the first place.

  17. Martian natives place bets on how far will it move by thrad · · Score: 1

    .. and polish solar panels for extra enjoyment during nights ;-)

  18. Beagle 2 by piquadratCH · · Score: 3, Funny

    So THAT's what Beagle 2 is doing all the time up there...

  19. Great, just what we need... by binderhead126 · · Score: 1, Funny

    There seems to be no intelligent life, but there are homeless martians who will clean your car for a buck. Go figure. Interplanetary capitalism is here to stay.

  20. Rise of the Machines. by imehler · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Intelligence has blossomed. Evolution has spawned. SkyNet decides that the rover would work better with window wipers. I for one welcome our new robot overlords. In other news: Martian super-robots have decimated mankind and taken over the earth.

  21. I'm having the strangest sense of deju vu... by Satcho · · Score: 0

    Weird.

  22. would wind work by grahamsz · · Score: 3, Informative

    We had gusts up to 98mph earlier this week and my car looks as dirty as ever

    1. Re:would wind work by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > We had gusts up to 98mph earlier this week and my car looks as dirty as ever

      I suspect the dirt that's covering your car is not much like the particulate on the rovers.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:would wind work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so, how are your fences?

    3. Re:would wind work by leav · · Score: 1

      with a name like "MightyMartian" i'd say he know some stuff about martian winds and carwashes :)

      --
      I own a pump action golf ball cannon. I made it myself.
  23. The Martians by Delusional · · Score: 0, Redundant
    The Martians are clearly a very tidy people.

    Obviously Spirit wandered into a bad neighborhood where Martian bums keep wiping the panels with greasy rags that only make things worse.

  24. Design by FiReaNGeL · · Score: 5, Interesting

    NASA engineers decided not to put wipers on the solar panels, because it would have been too much trouble / added too much weight. I guess they're pretty happy with their decision now, with the 'unexpected' cleaning events...

    1. Re:Design by mboverload · · Score: 0
      You can make them of carbon fiber, you know.

      Those things could be just grams each.

    2. Re:Design by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      NASA engineers decided not to put wipers on the solar panels, because it would have been too much trouble / added too much weight. I guess they're pretty happy with their decision now, with the 'unexpected' cleaning events...

      But the cleaning is limited to one rover and perhaps not permanent. Some speculate it might be due to Opportunity's tilt while in the crater. Now that it is out of the crater, the washing may end.

      Nor do they know the impact of wipers on Mars dust. It may make the problem worse for all we know. Certain kinds of dust made a bigger mess on my car winshield until several passes of both the wipers and water. That much water and power would not likely be practical on a rover.

    3. Re:Design by cheekyboy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      weight??? Havent they heard of PLASTICS?? I am sure wipers , even if made of aluminum could not possibly be more than a few ounces or 1/2 a pound. Come on where are these so called rocket scientists, design something light weight spring loaded plastic thingy... even a damn BRUSH attached to a robot arm, and train the CPU/program on earth to learn to brush its dust off. How hard would that be? Oh i forgot, its up to management to approve it.

      --
      Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    4. Re:Design by tzanger · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      weight??? Havent they heard of PLASTICS?? I am sure wipers , even if made of aluminum could not possibly be more than a few ounces or 1/2 a pound. Come on where are these so called rocket scientists, design something light weight spring loaded plastic thingy... even a damn BRUSH attached to a robot arm, and train the CPU/program on earth to learn to brush its dust off. How hard would that be? Oh i forgot, its up to management to approve it.

      I love the armchair rocket scientists... Tell ya what, here's a nickel... go bug someone else for a while, son. Let the grownups have a conversation where this hasn't been brought up and dismissed a thousand times already.

    5. Re:Design by Sparr0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      you do realize the cost of sending payload to the martian surface is measured in millions of dollars per ounce right? a 3 ounce arm would NOT have been worthwhile, considering all the extra (redundant) mechincal support it would have required, as well as software.

    6. Re:Design by rebelcool · · Score: 1

      It's just one more thing to design, build, test, and draw power. A few weeks of work + a few ounces at millions of dollars per pound = really expensive and unnecessary.

      Not to mention one more thing to fail.

      --

      -

    7. Re:Design by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Assuming that's true, it still doesn't make sense. If you put a wiper on and it malfunctions, the most you've lost is an opportunity. I realize weight is key, but you're talking about a simple device with the ability to extend the life of the rover indefinately.

    8. Re:Design by Baricom · · Score: 1

      If you put a wiper on and it malfunctions, the most you've lost is an opportunity.

      That's what we're afraid of ;).

    9. Re:Design by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 1

      Adding wipers to the solar panels (this has been hashed over lots of times, look it up) would not extend the mission indefinitely. There are many other things that would and are breaking on the rovers before the solar panels collect too much dust. A prime example is Spirit's sticky wheel.

  25. Well.... by old_skul · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ...I admit it. It's me.

  26. Marvin the Martian... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must have gotten a new squeegee for Hanukkah.
    Funny I didn't realize Martians were Jewish.

  27. Obligatory... :P by hakkikt · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I, for one, welcome our new martian solar-cell cleaning overlords

  28. can't... resist..the..tempta.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I for one welcome our new Martian rover cleaning Overlords!

    (That horse has to be a nice bloody pulp by now)

  29. Re:hmmm...but... by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    Wind? You'd think that /.ers would know that mars does have an atmosphere, and therefore can produce some kind of wind, which could be blowing sand and dirt all over the panels.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  30. I for one by g0bshiTe · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I for one welcome our new duplicate article posting overlords.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    1. Re:I for one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're wrong.

      In Soviet Russia, Mars rvers clean you!

  31. Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps Marvin has been using a toned-down version of the Eludium Q-235 Explosive Space Modulator.

  32. I know what did it by __aamcgs2220 · · Score: 0, Troll

    It was the Linux-powered orbiting brain lasers that cleaned the solar panels. See? Linux rocks!

  33. Clouds...or not by shadowsurfr1 · · Score: 1

    I remember hearing something about clouds on Mars. Extremely faint but still existant. It rains lightly, the panels get cleared.

    It's either that or some wind came by.

    1. Re:Clouds...or not by JustinXB · · Score: 1

      Clouds have been seen before, but there isn't enough water vapor to rain. However, there has been frost in the early martain morning. I forget at which bot.

    2. Re:Clouds...or not by Punboy · · Score: 1

      But didn't you hear? The wind was treats the rover as if it weren't there. Just ignores it. Its too thin to make a diff

      --
      If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
  34. Explanation by JustinXB · · Score: 4, Funny
    1. Re:Explanation by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 1

      I don't get it :(

      --
      [o]_O
    2. Re:Explanation by tepples · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't get it either. Does "WASH Me" mean something in a Martian language?

    3. Re:Explanation by retodd · · Score: 0

      For those of you who don't get it...

      The martians wrote "wash me" in the dirt on the solar panels (thus cleaning some of the dirt away). That's what causes the solar panels to be more effective.

    4. Re:Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone used their finger to draw "wash me" in the dirt. The area contained in the letters is now free of dirt, thus increasing light to the panels.

    5. Re:Explanation by msaulters · · Score: 1
      Someone used their finger to draw "wash me" in the dirt. The area contained in the letters is now free of dirt, thus increasing light to the panels.

      Hmmm... when I first saw that cartoon, I thought it looked like the rover had been turned into one of the replicators from Stargate SG-1. Maybe that was unintentional on Illiad's part.
      --
      These people looked deep into my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
    6. Re:Explanation by cdrudge · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ok. Here's an explanation. The rover(s) are losing power because dust is settling on the solar collectors. But in one case, there was this magical boost in power output by 5%. The first thing you would think of is that more sunlight is getting to the photo cells. Some Martian kid came by and, with his finger/tentacle/whatever, wrote "Wash Me" on one of the panels, just like kids do here on earth with dirty vehicles.

    7. Re:Explanation by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 1

      That's what I first thought! I blame the brightness on my monitor being so low ^^;;

      --
      [o]_O
    8. Re:Explanation by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 1

      It's really sad that someone had to actually explain the cartoon. We are sooo doomed . . .

      --

      I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.

  35. Business idea by otisg · · Score: 1

    Hm, that's a good business idea.

    --
    Simpy
  36. out damn spot! by OffTheLip · · Score: 1

    Lady Macbeth lives!

    1. Re:out damn spot! by Punboy · · Score: 1

      Dude... shakespeare references in a reply to an article about the large percentage of homeless martians is not nice.

      --
      If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
  37. i know who it was... by domenic+v1.0 · · Score: 1

    ...Marvin the Martian says all he wants in return for his service is a tri-quantum antiphotonical doomsday device to blow up earth. He deservesa tip at least...

  38. Self Cleaning Panels by ironicsky · · Score: 1

    I never figured that out... NASA spends billions of dollars building these rovers, why couldn't they spend a few hundred "earth dollars" and put car wiper blades on them... Oooh no, the power levels are dropping... [CLICK]... 10 minutes later... looks like our power levels are back up.

    1. Re:Self Cleaning Panels by Skater · · Score: 1

      Aren't Spirit and Opportunity already well past their expected operational lifetime?

      Seems like if you're designing it for x number of days, and you don't need to clean them to meet x, then why spend the extra money and deal with the extra complexity?

      --RJ

    2. Re:Self Cleaning Panels by geekoid · · Score: 1

      you mean magic wipers that don't nede anything to power them?

      plus the cost of sending up the extra weight.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Self Cleaning Panels by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that they could just make matters worse by smearing the dust around and scratching the surfaces of the panels.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    4. Re:Self Cleaning Panels by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

      Dude, spring loaded mechanisms, your "ARM" them when you have power, and 'click them' off when your running low, but not on zero.

      Ever heard of light weight composits, or plastics or anything, it doesnt need to be strong or thick, just enough to brush of dust well. Or vibrate the damn thing using those things that xbox controllers have and phones have.

      --
      Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    5. Re:Self Cleaning Panels by mikiN · · Score: 1

      Well, to protect the Martian environment ofcourse. Would you like to see the whole planet littered with disused rovers because every time some of them fail, another mission drops some new ones onto the planet? Better make them longer-lived.
      And by the way, they should send a garbage spacetruck to pick up discarded rovers and have them decommissioned at a recycling plant here on Earth.

      Let's start a campaign: Save the Martian environment!

      --
      The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
  39. Odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The strangest part are the cigarette butts found in Opportunities ash tray. NASA has yet to explain that and the fact that someone keeps pushing Opportunity's front seat all the way back.

  40. Drunken Martians? by OwlWhacker · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Whatever the process, it has taken place while Opportunity was parked during the Martian night.

    Upon closer inspection, scrawled in the dust on the solar panels, one can make out the words "CLEAN ME".

  41. Tricks they play. by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 1
    Aliens.

    Yes, it must quite definitely be aliens.

    They captured the rover right when it landed and put it into a Star Trek style holodeck, where the landscapes we see are made up. They've been doing this to all the other equipment that we've sent there over the years, so they can avoid what they believe is an oncoming invasion, by showing us that Mars is not a habitable place.

    Mars is actually quite nice, though. Its sky is green, not red as you see in the pictures, and its landscape is quite lovely, with red grass and red leaves on all the trees. Martian cities are built in huge self-contained buildings, isolated from one another by thousands of miles of thick forests, but connected by a vast network of underground tunnels which host train-like transportation vehicles.

    If we found out, they fear, we will go over there, build lots of stuff all over the place, rape and pillage the environment, fill it with pollution and smog, and royally screw the circle of life as they know it. So they play tricks on our probes.

  42. Re:NASA Planning? by Moridineas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Blind luck had no part in it. If you would have actually bothered to learn anything about the Rover project before back seat quarterbacking you would have quickly realized why they didn't build in wipers or some other mechanism.

    However, since you didn't, I'll summarize in brief:

    wipers--would increase weight and electrical requirements of the rovers, thereby decreasing lifespan. Also, the wipers themselves would most likely end up scratching the solar panels or embedding detritus into them, thus decreasing efficiency.

    liquid--compressed air--soemthing else: weight, and dubious effectiveness. Would quickly run out anyway.

  43. Re:NASA Planning? by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    > You'd think that a multi-million dollar project would be able to produce something akin
    > to a windshield wiper rather than just letting its little toy die and rust up there. Of course
    > if it did start to rust that would mean there is water. Why is it that NASA seems to be
    > relying on blind luck?

    I'm assuming here that NASA wanted to minimize the number of things that could go wrong, and windshield wipers seem to fall into that category.

    As it is they've got aliens cleaning it so what's the diff? NASA's vindicated, let's give them a billion dollars so they could deliver Big Macs and fries to the ISA!

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  44. You didn't watch enough cartoons as a kid by PitaBred · · Score: 1

    1958 - "Hare-Way to the Stars" - I have this on video! A Looney Tunes episode with Bugs Bunny. Marvin plans to blow up the Earth using the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator, and Bugs Bunny tries to stop him. Marvin, angry that "that creature" has stolen his space modulator, creates more Martians.
    (stolen from the linked site, bolding mine)

    1. Re:You didn't watch enough cartoons as a kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marvin, angry that "that creature" has stolen his space modulator, creates more Martians. Doesn't that usually require a female Martian and huge lead times? Or do these things work differently on Mars?

  45. Re:NASA Planning? by mottie · · Score: 1

    not so true.

    For iron to become iron oxide, three things are required: iron, water and oxygen.
    http://science.howstuffworks.com/question445.htm

  46. Applying Occam's Razor ... by thelen · · Score: 1

    C'mon, dust devils? Super wind? Driving at a tilt? Clearly there's a simpler explanation.

  47. I hope they know how it works.... by Fiz+Ocelot · · Score: 1

    I hope they don't expect this to be a freebie, or else don't expect all the hubcaps to be there next time!

  48. I told them.... by Audacious · · Score: 4, Funny

    I told those peskey custodians to NOT clean the rover while it was on the set!

    --
    Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke. :-)
    1. Re:I told them.... by meowsqueak · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the continuity person really stuffed up big time.

  49. Re:NASA Planning? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    The other side to this as well as that they never actually expected the rovers to last as long as they have. These things have been huge successes, and have been operating very well despite a few wrinkles, long past the lifespan the engineers built them for.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  50. again? by CowbertPrime · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I saw stuff on this last month!

  51. I for one... by sacrilicious · · Score: 1, Funny

    ... welcome our new solar-panel cleaning overlords.

    --
    - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    1. Re:I for one... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      welcome our new solar-panel cleaning overlords.

      Even if it turns out to be Goatse Martians using fart power?

    2. Re:I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't they be underlings? I mean, they're working for us!

    3. Re:I for one... by destiny71 · · Score: 1

      yeah, off topic, but....

      There needs to be some sort of karma bounus formula added to slashdot code.

      For every article, whoever is the first to post any of the standard replies (I for one welcome ... overlords, could you imagine a beowulf cluster, in Solviet Russia, etc, etc,) get's a bonus, but it's based on how long of a time has elapsed since the article appears, and they repy.

      I can see it now, slashdotters sitting at the keyboard just itching to reply, but waiting as long as they can, wondering if someone else will do it first.

      Oh, and a special bonus for combining two or more.

  52. It's nanobots! by jarich · · Score: 1

    That blasted Wesley Crusher has been screwing around with his school projects again!

  53. Re:hmmm...but... by MajorDick · · Score: 1

    Not just a little wind a LOT of wind with "storms" being clocked in excess of 200mph (Actually I think much higher)

    Ill be honest I always wondered how the planned to keep the rovers upright if one of these storms ran accross the area

    Or are the regional to mars , as in equitorial, polar what ?

  54. All hail... by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new cleanliness-obsessed Martian overlords. It will put a lot of streetcorner windows washing bums out of jobs, though.

    --
    In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    1. Re:All hail... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Korea only old people clean rovers.

  55. Re:Can it please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, but I'm sure Michael Sims would be happy to.

  56. Mac and Me by mollyhackit · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's McDonalds that's how I keep my arteries clean.

  57. wind by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    don't forget that something had to put the dust on top of the solar panels in the first place, so the same thing can move it off the rover...

    1. Re:wind by Punboy · · Score: 1

      Yup. That poor homeless martian keeps having to clean and reclean the rover cause an evil gang of dust-toting aliens keep pooring more dust on the rover.

      --
      If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
  58. Culprit found near burnt hole by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    It is obvious, the Giant Burnt Conquistador did it.

  59. Wipers? by Satcho · · Score: 0

    I been wondering why they didn't just design a slow moving wiper brush to clean the panels in the first place. One wipe every 30 days or as needed.

  60. Mystery solved by saddino · · Score: 2, Funny

    As evidenced by this image.

  61. Don't forget... by InThane · · Score: 1

    ...that while the wind speed is higher, due to the lower air pressure on Mars, that increased speed doesn't mean that the wind is actually strong enough to push it over. I couldn't tell you the exact numbers, though.

    --
    InThane
    1. Re:Don't forget... by Billy+the+Mountain · · Score: 1

      That's right. A 200 M.P.H. wind on earth at sea level exerts a lot more force than the same speed wind on Mars (at canal level?).

      BTM

      --
      That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
    2. Re:Don't forget... by jhagler · · Score: 1

      The Martian atmosphere is about 1/100th as dense as the earth's. In that case a 200 MPH wind on Mars would feel like a 2 MPH wind on Earth.

      Of course that's if all you are being hit with is gas, as soon as the wind picks up sand it's a very different scenario.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -RAH
  62. It happened to me too by Magickcat · · Score: 4, Funny

    A similar phenomena used to occur in my room as a teenager. Perhaps the two occurances are somehow connected.

    --

    Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.

    1. Re:It happened to me too by agent+dero · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm sure the Mars Lander's mom came in, yelled at him for moving so slowly, and sleeping most of the day, then cleaned his solar panels, and left in a huff....

      Brilliant!

      --
      Error 407 - No creative sig found
    2. Re:It happened to me too by youknowmewell · · Score: 1

      Well, I can imagine your mom didn't want your Mars rover to dirty up the carpet.

    3. Re:It happened to me too by raddan · · Score: 1
      Funny, this reminds of of my next door neighbor in my college dorm during my freshman year. He was an absolute slob. He would munch on cereal all day, straight from the box, and he would drop half-handfuls on the floor around him. In keeping with his crass and careless nature, he would make a point of grinding this cereal into the carpet as he walked around the room.

      One day, I came into his room and discovered that all the shit on the floor was gone. "Chris," I said, "you cleaned!" "No," he replied, "I just waited until the cleaning crew arrived." Sure enough, there was a procession of ants carrying the cereal off into his closet.

    4. Re:It happened to me too by feronti · · Score: 2, Funny

      Only problem is that Opportunity is a hyperactive teenage girl

    5. Re:It happened to me too by Punboy · · Score: 1

      Isn't is funny that when parents ransack your bedroom, it always comes out cleaner?

      --
      If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
    6. Re:It happened to me too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've tried that. There aren't enough ants to carry away all thefood.

    7. Re:It happened to me too by Magickcat · · Score: 1

      hehehe - I should have known.

      --

      Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.

    8. Re:It happened to me too by agent+dero · · Score: 1

      w...t...f...

      amazing what things the internet has to offer ;)

      --
      Error 407 - No creative sig found
  63. Whoda thunk it? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    Where are we going to find the five quarfloos to pay the Martian homeless person with the squeegee?

    --
    That is all.
  64. huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF is a rose royce? Taco, you dumbfuck.

  65. dust devils? by jokach · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article states:
    And the researchers suspect the shape of the crater may encourage the development of dust devils or other wind patterns that could help scrub the panels.

    The tornado like winds that can be caused by dust devils is something that was discussed by NASA back in April and surely seems like the real answer:

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/dust_devils_ 040420.html

    I'm not sure why they think its such a mystery now ...

    1. Re:dust devils? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tornado like winds that can be caused by dust devils

      huh? i always thought it was the dust devils that were created by the wind, not the wind being created by dust devils.

    2. Re:dust devils? by Monkelectric · · Score: 1

      Surely the thing has a camera that could take a picture of the dust devils?

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    3. Re:dust devils? by anum · · Score: 1

      The mystery is how long it will take Dyson to sue them.

      (No, not Freeman Dyson, James Dyson )

      --
      I don't think, Therefore I'm not.
  66. to prolong the fun... by WiPEOUT · · Score: 1

    The answer is obvious: the little green men that are following the rovers around and putting photos of a desolate wasteland up to the rover cameras have decided to prolong their fun by cleaning the solar panel with Windex.

  67. Re:hmmm...but... by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

    Since Mars has a thin atmosphere, very fast winds have very little actual 'push' - a 200mph wind on Mars has all the actual force of a light summer breeze.

    --
    How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
  68. Anyone considered this... by jbwolfe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Static charge?

    --
    Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
    1. Re:Anyone considered this... by pranay · · Score: 1

      Or failure in current sensors? Solar cell power output is generally calculated by reading the current sensors attached in series to each string of cells. The sensors calculate current by reading the voltage drop across a small resistor in path of current. If the value of the resistor drops, for of any reason; like temperature, outgassed particles etc., the sensors will read a higher current, and will send the wrong value via telemetry.

    2. Re:Anyone considered this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or failure in current sensors?

      Probably not. The rover's power budget is consistent with the telemetry. If this were not the case, the rover would tend to prematurely run out of juice in the afternoons.

    3. Re:Anyone considered this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's it! You're brilliant! No over at NASA ever thought of that! Armchair scientist saves the day! Woohoo!!

  69. 'Something' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...is creating duplicate posts...

  70. Solution found by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 1

    It's Marvin.

  71. you gotta love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have to love an article containing the phrase "exciting and unexplained cleaning events".

    I sure wish some of these would happen in my car and apartment!

  72. "Oh those filthy 6-wheeled Earthlings, must clean" by Tablizer · · Score: 1
  73. Entropy increases Re:wind by wadiwood · · Score: 1

    driving around could stir up the dust. Coming to a sudden stop (crashing) could tip a fair bit of it off too. That's how I clean my door mat - belt it against a tree or rock.

    --

    -- it must be true, it's on the internet.
  74. NASA Sr. Engineer Leeloo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to unconfirmed reports from Sr. Eng. Leeloo, the rover has been subjected to some form of auuuttttoowwwassshhhh

  75. of course! by kistral · · Score: 1

    Hi, I'm a third-party observer on slashdot with only a 3-sentence block of summary text to guide me since I obviously didn't have time to RTFA before posting my comment, but I can easily out-think all of the great minds in NASA to explain the phenomenon on slashdot from the comfort of my home in my pajamas.

    I mean, jeeze, don't you think they thought of that? Even if you're not going to RTFA, your explanation was so freaking obvious that I'm sure someone in NASA, if not every single one of them, has thought of this. If it were that simple, do you think they'd have continued referring to it as a mystery?

  76. maybe... by No.+24601 · · Score: 1

    A drunk martian took a piss on our billion dollar mission.

  77. The crater? by Lispy · · Score: 1

    Opportunity climbed a huge crater down and later up again. I could imagine that due to the steep climbing angle some of the sand fell off. My lame theory, i know it's statically loaded and sticky and I know gravity is only a third, but it could be a factor, maybe?

    1. Re:The crater? by Lispy · · Score: 1

      Ok, I just RTFA and found that they mention my great "theory", nevermind. ;-)

  78. watt-hours per day by aberson · · Score: 3, Informative

    seems a little redundant

    power * time / time = power

    900 Watts * hours / day * (1 day / 24 hours) = 37.5 Watts.

    Why not just say that to start?

    1. Re:watt-hours per day by Detritus · · Score: 1

      They have to plan operations to work within a daily energy budget. The big yellow thing in the sky disappears at night.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:watt-hours per day by armitage_23 · · Score: 2, Informative

      A Martian day is not the same as a Terran day. On top of that, the sun is not up for the entire day.

    3. Re:watt-hours per day by adolf · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Sure. 37.5 Watts? When? At noon? When the panels are facing away from the sun? During the night? When, exactly, is that 37.5 Watt figure useful? (Answer: It is not. Nobody gives a shit what the theoretical average output power of the cells might be. Except, perhaps, you.)

      They expressed their figures in Watt-hours/day because that's how it makes the most sense for the topic at-hand. All that matters here is how much energy the solar cell provides during the course of one day, which can then be easily compared with the expected power requirements of upcoming missions, storage losses, and a bunch of stuff that I don't care to bother myself with.

      This is Slashdot. Do you you want the units to be dumbed down into meaningless dribble for you to numbly consume and nod toward, or do you want them to have value?

      I suppose you think Watts are easier to digest, because everyone knows what a Watt is.

      Then again, everyone knows what a calorie is, too, and people digest 'em all the time. Would you rather they say that the panels are capable of producing 537.40327 calories per minute? Nevermind that the number is accurate and the unit is common - it's just about fucking worthless for getting any work done.

      I mean, personally, I'm a big fan of horsepower, fortnights, cubits, and the like as units of measure, just because it's fun to say them. But that doesn't mean I'm going to publish that my multi-billion-dollar alien rover is extracting 16.896878 horsepower-hours per fortnight from Sol, even if it is mathematically true.

      It's just not useful.

    4. Re:watt-hours per day by Sinner · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They expressed their figures in Watt-hours/day because that's how it makes the most sense for the topic at-hand.
      Um... kilojoules anyone? What is it with you Americans and your bizarro units of measure, anyway?
      --
      fish and pipes
    5. Re:watt-hours per day by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except the Watt *is* an SI unit (the standard SI unit for power, representing 1 J/s). The equivalent Imperial unit would be horsepower, or lbf/s. Further, the joule being a unit of energy, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

      I may be an American, but at least I understand the difference between power and energy.

      --

      ---
      Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
      (I read with sigs off.)
    6. Re:watt-hours per day by Sinner · · Score: 1
      I may be an American, but at least I understand the difference between power and energy.
      Are you sure? So what is the watt-hour a unit of then? (Hint: the answer is not "power")
      --
      fish and pipes
    7. Re:watt-hours per day by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 1

      The watt-hour per day is a unit of... power. Yep. Power.

      You still look silly calling the watt an Imperial unit; it's the SI unit of power. Has nothing to do with Americans at all.

      --

      ---
      Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
      (I read with sigs off.)
    8. Re:watt-hours per day by Sinner · · Score: 1
      You still look silly calling the watt an Imperial unit
      You still look silly avoiding my question.
      it's the SI unit of power.
      And "watt-hour per day" is... ?
      --
      fish and pipes
    9. Re:watt-hours per day by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 1

      Considering that they're talking about total daily energy budget, a pretty sensible way to string together SI units?

      --

      ---
      Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
      (I read with sigs off.)
  79. Now I know..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    where all of the Squeegie Kids that were kicked out of Toronto and Montreal ended up!

  80. Re:Martian natives place bets on how far will it m by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rover curling?

  81. it was a couple of Croatians at the traffic lights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    and if you live in SE UK you will know what i mean

  82. I didn't get it. by northcat · · Score: 2, Funny

    I didn't get that cartoon. What does it mean?

    1. Re:I didn't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't get it for a while, either. Then I realized that the rover's left panel, where it looks like clouds reflected, is actually the hard-to-see-at-first text "wash me".

      Just another case of piss-poor drawing.

  83. Ummmm.... by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
    I totally don't get it.

    ::Stares at the picture a bit more::

    Oh wait.
    HAHAHAHA
    Brilliant

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  84. that would be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hank the janitor of Studio/Hanger 18

  85. Squeegee guys by hedley · · Score: 1

    The migrated from Houston/W. Broadway and are now working the crater for the holidays.

  86. Star Trek style holodeck uneccesary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They could plug in a simple video player in place of the camera. And the Martians aren't worried about our pollution, in fact they are the ones manipulating government and industry to destory our atmosphere. Ever wonder why Bush messes up simple English?- Its flawed Martian translation implants- yeah, he's one of them. If only we had special sunglasses that would reveal the true appearance of the Martians amongst us!

  87. They Live! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Rowdy" Roddy Piper will save us!

  88. Yeah but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did it vacuum the carpet and clean the ashtray? Did it find any roaches under the seat? Those would be mine. I mean, I'm sorry officer. I don't know where those came from.

  89. It sounds like the thing to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is to always overnight at an angle on a hill. The going theory is that when it parks on a slope, the dust gets blown off. I personally think that it could also happen when the rover goes up or down rocky slopes.

  90. That contradicts why it got dusty in the 1st place by cheekyboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dude, if the air pressure is TOO LOW to blow the dust around, then how DID THE DAMN DUST get ONTO THE panels in the first PLACE!?!?!?!

    You cant say fact A)
    "The wind is not enough to blow the dust off the panels"

    and yet say B)
    "The panels got dusty because of wind blow dust around the planet"

    So which is it?

    But we do know mars gets dusty as wild storms do happen, but we havent seen that in any camera footage this year.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  91. I KNOW WHAT THIS IS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it is called a Friendly Alien cleaning it at night when no one sees it. THIS IS THE ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION I CAN SEE

  92. Re:NASA Planning? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    How 'bout a compressor? Of course, that would do pretty much what the wind is doing now for free...


    Don't the have a heater for the rover's batteries anyway? Seems like that would use a LOT more energy than a cleaning system. How 'bout simply inverting the solar panels at night and letting the dust fall off?

  93. Re: Water clearly visible on Mars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/jpl-images/web/op portunity/pancam/2004-12-19/1P155450047EFF38EVP255 7L4M1.JPG

    Look in the bottom right corner. Looks like a pool of water to me. And this is supposedly a picture from Mars. Just a thought...

  94. Ahem... by nitrocloud · · Score: 0

    ... where is cold fusion when you need it?

    --
    Karma: Good, or bust!
  95. Not on the rover but on the lander by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The lander component should have had a pop-up mast with the bust blowers on it. The rover could have returned to the lander every month or two, drive underneath the mast, and blow the dust off.

  96. I Cleaned it........ by oasis.szli · · Score: 1

    my baby had took it for his lovely toys for several months,but it looks like a bit dirty now,so i clean it for my baby's sake......

  97. offshoring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's kinda' similar to offshoring but what's the right word here? Offplaneting?

  98. Homeless guys, trying to make a dime. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simple.

  99. One Word: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Roomba

  100. obvious answer... by redheaded_stepchild · · Score: 1

    the martians simply grokked a wrongness with the dust on the panel.

    --
    Don't use the Troll mod just because you disagree with me.
  101. I Did it....... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your Favourite Martian...ps, please send food and Women if there are any willing to go to Mars.

  102. windex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I think the guy on the set just actually used a rag and windex by accident.

    Just kidding...

    1. Re:windex by windex · · Score: 1

      I was nowhere near Mars so far as I can remember. Maybe alien abduction?..

  103. Re:That contradicts why it got dusty in the 1st pl by Afrosheen · · Score: 1

    How did they get dusty? Because they ran it through the car wash yesterday.

    Same theory as why it always rains the day after I wash my car (after it being dirty for weeks).

  104. TIP! TIP! by Alien54 · · Score: 1
    Pesky Damn martians, washing our rovers, well its time to bomb them.....

    not until they start mobbing the rover with their bottles of windex and paper towels, screaming "Tip! Tip"

    New Yorkers know what I mean

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  105. Hobos are universal it seems by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 0

    I'm sure youve all met at least one. They run up and scrub your windshield before you can tell them not to and then demand money.

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  106. They probably cleaned themselves. by isny · · Score: 1

    All they really needed to get the drive to do it themselves was that one Martian to write "Wash me" on the solar panels.

  107. Re:NASA Planning? by Moridineas · · Score: 1

    much of the dust is believed to be magnetic too

  108. Ultrasonic cleaning by EvilMidnightBomber · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I had almost exactly the same problem when prototyping my robot lawn mower. (crappy pic in profile) The first rev. used optical interrupters to sense a cut grass edge, and these would rapidly become unusable due to dust. I ran through the feasibility of using such an onboard(liqufied) gas tank, but the ratio of functionality to weight is king in any mobile (and especially spaceborne) app and this falls short on that mark (beside being non-renewable). Wipers (and worse yet the geared motor to drive them) are similarly bulky, and unless you're using diamond coated optics,(no water here to lubricate things) wiping the dust eventually produces hazing due to microscratches. The solution I found was to incorporate the equivalent of an ultrasonic parts cleaner. A cheap high-powered motorola peizo tweeter from rat-shack acoustically coupled to the optics support bar and driven at 40khz does an incredible job of knocking off ALL the loose dust, and it's very light weight. The rover could do the same thing by tilting it's panels vertically and then letting rip with the u-sound. About one x-ducer per square meter is all it would take.

    1. Re:Ultrasonic cleaning by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Small question. What whould the difference in atmospheric pressure do here. I'm pretty shure the much lower pressure would reduce the transmittance of the ultrasound unless you planning on transmitting it through the frame somehow, but what would that do to the rover itself?
      Just didn't know if you'd acounted for that, and would like to hear about it if you did.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    2. Re:Ultrasonic cleaning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Accumulation of dust in a parts that rub together could create fretting which might generate a vibration in that vicinity. So long as the parts to sit so long that they accumulate too just dust and chips from fretting and lock together.

      On mars, with the lack of water vapor to make things sticky, the lower gravity, and less dense air, one might well not even need to tilt much of anything to get small grains to bounce off.

    3. Re:Ultrasonic cleaning by eofpi · · Score: 1

      He said it was acoustically coupled to the sensor's support bar. I take that to mean it's transmitting the sound through the support arm to the sensor, so the air pressure differences are irrelevant.

      --
      Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
    4. Re:Ultrasonic cleaning by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      just mount the panel on a floating frame (probably requiring expensive materials to keep weight down) and glue a piezo element to the back of it with some kind of uber-epoxy. the equipment to tilt the panel is a lot more trouble.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Ultrasonic cleaning by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      hmm, didn't read carefully enough. You're likely right. bad habbit of reading /. just before bed, when I'm to tired to think/read clearly. thx

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    6. Re:Ultrasonic cleaning by Shadowlore · · Score: 1

      The rover could do the same thing by tilting it's panels vertically and then letting rip with the u-sound. About one x-ducer per square meter is all it would take.

      Not a terrible idea overall, but the mechanism to rotate the panels encounters the same basic problem of mass/mechanisms. They'd have to be engineered such that you could be assured they would always return to the proper position. Again, the failure result questions.

      If the panels don't rotate back due to a failure, you'd likely lose much more power than just letting them get dirty over time. Better to have a power loss over time, than to have the rover lose power in week one because the panels did not rotate back to the proper position.

      I still like your solution for your mower though. :)

      --
      My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
  109. Car wash by ananegg · · Score: 1

    *starts singing* Working at the car wash......

    --
    Insert Pithy Quote here.
  110. In a word... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Gnomes!

  111. booo by adeydas · · Score: 1

    booooo, its the martian car wash association... how much is NASA paying them as tip?!

  112. second time this happens in one week by alonsoac · · Score: 3, Funny

    what are the odds?

  113. Pimp my Rover by cno3 · · Score: 1

    The scientists also discovered, quite inexplicably, that the rover had been outfitted with hydraulics and a startling amount of bling.

  114. look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by loquacious+d · · Score: 3, Funny

    SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

    For serious, who keeps modding this shit up? Is it really still funny? "I, for one, welcome our Soviet grits hot YOU goatse-Beowulf ????? profit run Linux?" Do I get modded up now, too?

    Fucking idiots.

    1. Re:look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by Rhinobird · · Score: 1

      Do I get modded up now, too?

      yes. yes you do.

      --
      If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
    2. Re:look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by misterlump77 · · Score: 1

      i have a theory: but maybe it's a fark topic?

    3. Re:look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by doodlelogic · · Score: 1

      You can change your user settings to demote funny posts.

      Funny posts do not increase karma.

    4. Re:look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by mizhi · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      Attention slashdot humor-lemmings, the new, mindless funny response is now:
      I, for one, welcome our new petrified soviet portman grits...
      1. SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP Fucking geoatse-beowulf idiots."
      2. Profit.
      Post repeatedly in many varying forms for the next year. Guaranteed +5 Funny/Stupid.
      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    5. Re:look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by Huge+Pi+Removal · · Score: 1

      Bills Hicks, reincarnated and posting on /. Whooda thunk it?

      --
      - Oliver

      The right to bear arms is only slightly less stupid than the right to arm bears...
    6. Re:look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by Netsnipe · · Score: 0, Troll
      For serious, who keeps modding this shit up?
      In Korea, only old people mod this shit up.
      --
      -- "I can't tell the future, I just work there." -- The Doctor
    7. Re:look at me my parent is a FUCKING GENIUS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I, for one, welcome our new petrified soviet portman grits...

      In Soviet Russia petrified gritted portmans welcome YOU!

  115. Didn't We Already Do This Yesterday? by TFGeditor · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
    1. Re:Didn't We Already Do This Yesterday? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. We did this yesterday and people are still talking about the same things that were talked about when the rovers first landed: "Why don't they clean the panels with wipers/film/water/vibration/tilt/blowers"

  116. Re:That contradicts why it got dusty in the 1st pl by djupedal · · Score: 1

    how DID THE DAMN DUST get ONTO THE panels in the first PLACE!?!?!?!

    The same way the damn terrain gets dusty...ya' think?

  117. God damn squeegee kids by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    Man they are everywhere now. Get a job!

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  118. They keep passing checkpoints by iabervon · · Score: 4, Funny

    As anyone who's played a racing car game in the past twenty years can tell you, when you pass a checkpoint, you get more time. As long as they keep completing new areas, they'll keep getting bonuses. On the other hand, if the Spirit team doesn't get moving, they're going to have to put in another quarter pretty soon.

    1. Re:They keep passing checkpoints by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 1

      By that rationale: the occasional missing Mars probes are really just being locked in play. One more and NASA gets Multiball!

      --
      All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
    2. Re:They keep passing checkpoints by Alsee · · Score: 1

      I think you missed a word there.

      they're going to have to put in another quarter billion pretty soon

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  119. Alien world stations by Punboy · · Score: 1

    So the aliens are no threat really, they're just bums looking to make a buck cleaning your solar panels.

    --
    If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
  120. What a dumbass. by i41Overlord · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Congratulations, you're smarter than nobody. Post as an anonymous coward so people don't see you for the anal twit that you are.

  121. Odd Indeed by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

    While this is odd, what's even odder is the amount of funny comments I've read for this article already.

    --
    "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  122. Re: Water clearly visible on Mars? by Morlark · · Score: 1

    Oh noes, there's water on Mars! Wait, that's not Mars, that's the field outside my house! NASA is using their probes to spy on me!! Good thing I've got my tin foil hat.
    It has been known for a long time that water exists on Mars. Admittedly, this is primarily in the form of ice locked up in the polar caps, but measurements taken by the two Viking landers indicate that in some places, the temperature of Mars can reach as high as 27 degrees C.

    --
    Santa's suicide mission go!
  123. It must be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Vulcans initiating first contact!

  124. Damn it, Homeless Martians! by ambelamba · · Score: 0

    I wonder if a homeless Martian will clean the solar panel and asking for a couple of Earth virgins.

  125. Here's why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet it's not all of the solar panel surface that is cleaner, just the part where a tiny martian hand traced "WASH ME!" in the dust...

  126. obviously... by flyingsquid · · Score: 1

    it's those solar panel gnomes.

  127. Probably has something to do with these... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... unreleased photos taken just before the rover landed.

  128. Re:That contradicts why it got dusty in the 1st pl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The same way they got the dust to finaly kick up. They used an object to kick the dust up, and then the wind moved it around fine. So in the experiment they used pebbles to kick up a little... on mars they used the rover to kick a little bit up.

  129. Those sneaky... by Vorgo · · Score: 1

    Those sneaky martian squeegy kids!

    --
    A new feature is just a bug waiting to happen. And vice versa.
  130. Keeps going and going and going... by Nalez · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have been folowing the MER stuff a bit, and when they put these suckers on mars, I would have never expected them to last this long. Remember that Pathfinder lasted about 90 days. If everything went as it should, I would have expected one of the two MER rovers to last 200 days.

    Both rovers are still up and running, and pushing 340 days of operation. At this rate, one of them is sure to last 365 days.

    I think we do not give enough credit to this program. the MER team took a robot, threw it on a rocket, sent it to mars, had it land on mars, and both rovers have been running for over 300 days. I think this is just simply amazing.

  131. Idea for extension... by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    If I were the rover drive of the other rover, I'd head for that spot while I still had some juice!

    Never mind that it's on a totally different part of the planet. Imagine the feeling of triumph if it made it! :-)

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  132. In other news.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There have been reports of New York City car-window washers roaming the deserts of New Mexico.

  133. Re:That contradicts why it got dusty in the 1st pl by dukeisgod · · Score: 1

    Maybe it kicks up slight amounts of dust as it travels, slow as it may be. It dosen't take much to disturb fine dusty soil.

  134. cleaning mechanism discovered by zentara · · Score: 1
  135. Just wondering though.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    The girls in the martian bikini car wash have how many boobies?

  136. And somewhere in the desert... by KC7GR · · Score: 1

    ...At a lonely and near-deserted monitoring station hooked up to the VLA, a single technician jerks out of his half-asleep doze in utter amazement.

    Why, you may ask? Well, you'd be amazed too if you were in a similar situation, and you suddenly heard, emanating from the ether in the general direction of Mars, a bunch of reedy chipmunk-pitched voices raised in a glorious chorus of --

    "Car Wash.... Workin' at the Car Wash, yeah..."
    (Work, And Work)
    "Keep those NASA Rovers comin!"
    (Work, And Work)
    Keep those dusty panels comin..."

    (You get the idea. I'm going to go to bed now...)

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

  137. Windshield wipers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I posed this question to a friend and neither of us could find a decent answer -- why doesn't the little robot have a windshield wiper or a sheet of flexible plastic that is rotated to eliminate dust in the first place? I think that is the bigger mystery.

  138. There's... something... on the wing! by BarryNorton · · Score: 1

    If only Bill Shatner were on board to see it!

  139. Martins need to ear a living to. by Martin+Spamer · · Score: 1


    It reminds me of a cartoon about one of the failed early landers where, Martian yobs where vandalising the lander. It seems tha Martians have grown up a little and now need to earn a living.

  140. Re:That contradicts why it got dusty in the 1st pl by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's actually possible (for A and B to both be true) if the coefficient of static friction is lower for dust-dust contact than it is for dust-panel contact. In this case, the force required to break dust-dust stiction could be lower than wind forces, allowing the wind to kick the dust into the air, while the wind force could in turn be lower than dust-panel stiction, preventing the wind from clearing the panel.

    I have no idea if that's how it is, I just like saying stiction.

    --

    ---
    Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
    (I read with sigs off.)
  141. Or meteorite impact? by TFGeditor · · Score: 1

    Maybe Spitirt is near a recent meteorite/asteroid impact site, and dust thus thrown into the atmosphere is still settling under gravity.

    --
    Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
  142. Re: Water clearly visible on Mars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it clearly looks like a pool of sand to me. Look at the similarly textured "pools" elsewhere. They are almost the same, except they have specks of rocks. But I guess that people see what they waant to see, and I'm looking for the truth, and you are evidently looking for water.

  143. Mothership? by LizzyDragon · · Score: 1

    Maybe there's a mothership hanging around somewhere . . .

  144. The windowcleaners... by mousse-man · · Score: 1

    yell "ack, ack".

    Maybe if wanted to have clean windows, we should equip the probes with a CD player and Elvis CDs.

  145. I thought userfriendly already figured this out by calethix · · Score: 1
  146. Seismic activity? by vikstar · · Score: 1

    There are recent reports (http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/ 23/0340233&tid=160&tid=99) of active volcanoes on Mars. Could it be seismic activity shaking the dust loose?

    --
    The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
  147. Power Panels mysteriousely cleaned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have not seen except in jest any reference to martian indigeonous life being a factor. I know from here on earth that some insects like wasps prefer to be in the company of electric fields. I do not know why this is so. I just have the work of cleaning out my electric boxes all the time whilst fighting angry wasps distraught over losing their nests to a big white dude with a long stick. The jury is still out on the possibility of life on Mars; and I think that life will find a way. We already wonder about the 'blueberries' that seem to be all over the martian surface. And there are unexplained or unsatisfactorily explained white dendritic growths that have been observed as well. If there is life on Mars, maybe it too prefers to be near electric fields just like my wasps.
    There are also photographs of chasma of the Valles Marineris that show green patches low on the over six kilometer high walls of the Grand Canyon of Mars. That which is carried by the wind in a thin atmosphere will be small indeed. Small in size and in a layer means a very large surface area of particles in almost colloidal size or smaller. It also means low density per particle. Now such a particle may be a vital nutrient for something, maybe a bacteria or protozoa of some kind or other. We just don't know. As far as life is concerned on this planet, the political ramifications are huge, such that governments will be very reluctant to say much even in private to their friends. It is too easy to rely on the abundant and ever willing supply of skeptics that infest every scientific discipline and who continually scavage for any tidbit of anything so they can make their reputation, get a promotion, or even get or keep their job by dumping on the efforts or thoughts of those more capable and/or original in concept perception than themselves.
    I short, where life on Mars is seemingly concerned, those that know don't tell, those that tell don't know!

  148. scrolling flexible panel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Flexible solar panels exist now. It would be neat to have a rubber band shaped solar array on 2 rollers. The edges could have sprocket holes like photographic film and one of the rollers could be hooked into the drivetrain for the wheels on a servo/solenoid engaged clutch.

    So when the expsoed part of the cell got dusty the clutch could engage, the cell could be looped and on the underside of the loop there could be a bit of felt or other scrubby substance that clears the dust.

    Possibly, depending on how flexible the thing really is, the scrubby surface could be perpendicular to the rollers, making it a mobius loop so that less cleaning is needed, you scroll to flip the panel over.

    Yeah, more moving parts and weight, but a nifty idea.

  149. Tear-offs by (negative+video) · · Score: 1

    Making things work in space is hard. They have to survive extremes of heat, not generate static electricity that zaps the solar panels as they're peeled off, not leave a residue that collects dust like crazy, not prematurely curl up at the edges, not fall off and get tangled in the wheels, and so forth. Guaranteeing all that with high probability would have required a major engineering program.

  150. Something?!? by killa62 · · Score: 0

    I never knew that after my pet 'something' died, he moved to mars...

  151. Nope, the devils didn't do it by Shadowlore · · Score: 1

    The tornado like winds that can be caused by dust devils is something that was discussed by NASA back in April and surely seems like the real answer:

    You misrepresented or misunderstood what the article you reference said. It said that the dust devils on mars can be taller than earthbound tornados, not that the winds are equivalent. Remember that the atmospheric pressure on Mars is so much less that their duststorms are no more than a gentle breeze on earth. If the winds were truly tornado-like, how would you expect the very lightweight (on Mars) rover to stay put??

    I'm not sure why they think its such a mystery now ...

    Probably because the article you reference had this to say about the dust devils and the results of their electrical charge: increased dust adhesion to space suits and equipment.

    So the DDs would likely lead to a higher level of dust on the panels due to the electrical charge.

    You know, I expect slashdot posters to generally not read the article in the original story, but to not read the article you post yourself? Come on! ;)

    --
    My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
  152. Alternative methods by Shadowlore · · Score: 1

    A simple solid state chemical "reactor" that was able to extract and compress (well contain expansion) CO2, for example, would be a possibility. Combined with a pressure relief valve and a rather singificant supply you have a renewable supply and relatively safe mechanism.

    Then again, I'd like to see a shift from solar panels as the primary fuel source. As has been proven, we can extract fuel from the martian atmosphere by taking hydrogen gas, gelled with methane to limit boiloff, and combining it with martian CO2. This would provide significantly more power.

    This power could be supplemented by solar to extend the life of the rover once the feedstock was used up.

    Another interesting scenario I've been speccing out is to send a slightly larger two component system that has a "fueling station" where the main fuel reactor resides, combined with a rover that possibly used an internal combustion engine (ICE) of say methane or oxygen/methane to provide significantly larger amounts of power to the rover. Again, once the feedstock has been used up, solar cells would then take over as primary power for the secondary systems (drive, comms, etc.).

    For example, if the ICE was used to power a generator leaving the motors driven by electrical systems the last step of the combustion driven power system could be used to deploy the solar cells. and detach from the rover assembly. In this manner, you tremendously extend the life of the rover by keeping the solar cells protected for the initial part of the mission.

    --
    My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
    1. Re:Alternative methods by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1

      Of course, if we really wanted a long-lived power source, we'd send a RTG. Too bad the anti-nuke crowd makes this fantastic technology a diminishingly-practical option.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky