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Wireless Security By The Gallon

prostoalex writes "The next effort to improve wireless security might involve a trip to Home Depot. Force Field Wireless sells buckets of aluminum and copped-laced paint designed to prevent the 802.11 packets from escaping the building, Information Week reports. The article also talks about the Firce Field's pitch to the government in order to improve the homeland security, but the only governments that got interested in anti-Wi-Fi paint were from the Middle East. According to the products page, they also sell the brush sets." Easier than wallpaper, or moving into an old house.

216 comments

  1. Tinfoil hats? by Stop+the+war+now! · · Score: 1, Funny

    I always knew they were useful.

    1. Re:Tinfoil hats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about anti-fouling bottom paint? Good copper loads up to 76% from Interlux!

      Admittedly the color choices are rather limited...Blue, Black, Red...But what more do you need!

    2. Re:Tinfoil hats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please go here:
      http://www.epg.army.mil/Test_Beds/EMI-TEMPE ST.htm
      Make sure your hat fits snug!

  2. Works great on the scalp! by CyberGarp · · Score: 5, Funny

    New cheap replacements for all those tin-foil hats. Easy application!

    --

    I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
    1. Re:Works great on the scalp! by rzebram · · Score: 1

      Recreate the episodes of Myth Buster's where they painted eachother with gold paint!

    2. Re:Works great on the scalp! by ch-chuck · · Score: 2, Funny

      We've had replacements for tin-foil hats for some time now, not only more effective, but w/o the crackpot factor!

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    3. Re:Works great on the scalp! by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      but w/o the crackpot factor!

      What good is that then?

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    4. Re:Works great on the scalp! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, do a Ctrl-F in IE or Firefox, this is not redundant, no other post has "overlords" in it.
      -_-

    5. Re:Works great on the scalp! by lildogie · · Score: 1

      Go soak your head!

    6. Re:Works great on the scalp! by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've tried this paint on my shorts, and I can report it almost controls unwanted emissions.

    7. Re:Works great on the scalp! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1
      Works great in the house too! Why interior latex? Now my cordless phone is broke!

      Pssst! Wanna buy some aluminium siding?

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    8. Re:Works great on the scalp! by cshark · · Score: 1

      Hmmm...

      I wonder if it would store safely with my Wifi Speed Spray

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

  3. Boy... by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Funny
    > Force Field Wireless sells buckets of aluminum and copped-laced paint

    ...talk about a TEMPEST in a teapot.

    1. Re:Boy... by irving47 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      HA. That one might even be too obscure for the /. crowd.

      --
      I had a sucky sig.
    2. Re:Boy... by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      It's too obscure for me. :)

      What's it relating to?

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    3. Re:Boy... by CRC'99 · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod this "+/-1, WTF?"

      --
      Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
    4. Re:Boy... by name773 · · Score: 1

      google for "van eck phreaking"

    5. Re:Boy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > It's too obscure for me. :)
      >What's it relating to?

      To bump up the obscurity factor another notch:

      He could tell you, but the Scientologists would have to kill you.

    6. Re:Boy... by siliconjunkie · · Score: 1

      This or this might help with the "WTF".

    7. Re:Boy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      TEMPEST is the codename for a pseudo-mythical method of surveillance used to intercept data from electrical devices, such as your computer, by intercepting unintended EM emanations. To quote:

      "TEMPEST was "invented" in 1918 when Herbert Yardley and his staff of the Black Chamber were engaged by the U.S. Army to develop methods to detect, intercept, and exploit combat telephones and covert radio transmitters. The initial research identified that "normal unmodified equipment" was allowing classified information to be passed to the enemy through a variety of technical weaknesses. A classified program was then created to develop methods to suppress these "compromising emanations". However, the actual acronym known as TEMPEST was only coined in the late 60's and early 70's (and is now considered an obsolete term, which has since, been replaced by the phrase "Emissions Security" or EMSEC).

      TEMPEST and it's associated disciplines involve designing circuits to minimize the amount of "compromising emanations" and to apply appropriate shielding, grounding, and bonding. These disciplines also include methods of radiation screening, alarms, isolation circuits/devices, and similar areas of equipment engineering.

      TEMPEST disciplines typically involve eliminating or reducing the transients caused by a communication signal and the resulting harmonics. These signals and their harmonics could allow the original signal to be reconstructed and analyzed."

      Link:
      http://www.tscm.com/TSCM101tempest.html

      The idea is that EM fields generated my, say, your monitor can be intercepted and used to reconstruct what's being displayed on the screen.

    8. Re:Boy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Hooray for the first original geek joke I've seen on slashdot in months!

      You are my hero tackhead.

    9. Re:Boy... by Detritus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      One of the early exploits for these techniques was to tap into the power lines supplying embassy code rooms and other sensitive areas. Teletypes and coding machines would generate electrical noise on the power line when they were being operated. With some clever analysis, it was often possible to determine what was being typed or printed on the machine. Other avenues of attack were the acoustic and RF emanations of the equipment.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    10. Re:Boy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Mythical, Sure, if that helps you to sleep better, then keep thinking it's mythical.

  4. Home Depot by vasqzr · · Score: 5, Funny


    The next effort to improve wireless security might involve a trip to Home Depot. Force Field Wireless sells buckets of aluminum and copped-laced paint designed to prevent the 802.11 packets from escaping the building,

    Lowe's should consider carrying that product.

    1. Re:Home Depot by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Lowe's should consider carrying that product.

      Lowe's should consider USING that product. Or for that matter, any better security than WEP.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:Home Depot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Lowe's should consider USING that product. Or for that matter, any better security than WEP.


      I knew this was coming... /.ing a bricks-and-mortar...
    3. Re:Home Depot by texaport · · Score: 1

      sells buckets of aluminum and copped-laced paint

      "Copped lace" is only available at Victoria Secret ... not Home Depot or Lowes.

      --
      Didn't the guy with a million copper pennies
      ODDLY ENOUGH
      mention that lightning struck his roof twice?

  5. TSS Covered It Last Month... by GTRacer · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...In fact they covered an outhouse with it and sent their man in with a wireless laptop. His reception dropped but disn't die completely.

    Also, I hope they meant copper-laced paint, otherwise some police officers might want to speak with them. Hell, the bobbies may STILL want a word...

    GTRacer
    - It's lame joke day

    --
    Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    1. Re:TSS Covered It Last Month... by RangerRick98 · · Score: 2, Funny

      copped-laced paint...Firce Field's pitch

      Perhaps someone was sniffing a little of this paint, hmmm?

      --
      "You're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older."
    2. Re:TSS Covered It Last Month... by Johnny2Bags · · Score: 1

      The Screen Savers test showed that with several solid coats the WiFi signal only dropped about 30%. They were still able to connect no problem.

      This was in a complete enclosure, like an outhouse. So with windows, etc the effectiveness of the paint would lessen even more.

      They said not to buy it. Duh.

    3. Re:TSS Covered It Last Month... by ronaldb64 · · Score: 1
      And this was before the show started to suck big time.

      I was thinking of the exact same episode as soon as I saw the article. Didn't Alex get some of the paint on his hand after he read all the precautions on the can? Plus considering the amount of paint needed to cover your entire house with that goo, it was pretty pricy for a barely working product.

      --
      There's no place like 127.0.0.1
    4. Re:TSS Covered It Last Month... by bladesjester · · Score: 3, Funny

      Using wireless in an outhouse? Talk about your reception going to shit

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    5. Re:TSS Covered It Last Month... by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      ... and he never tested his reception in the booth without the paint, making his 'tests' completely meaningless... Saw the show and called it a triumph for pseudo-science.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
  6. Conspiracy Theory starring Mel Gibson... by slowhand · · Score: 1

    As a painter with Wifi on his mind...

    --
    Busy aligning my non-linear thoughts.
  7. Tinfoil better ? by Dale549 · · Score: 1

    I prefer wallpapering with tinfoil... leftover hat material

  8. Shiny New Walls by Psiolent · · Score: 1

    I'd like some metallic paint in my house just for the aesthetics. At that price, though, I guess aesthetics alone isn't a solid reason.

  9. Good Old Fashioned Fix by mary_will_grow · · Score: 3, Funny

    I knew these cans of lead paint would find a use someday!!!!!

    --
    Why stick up for big business?
  10. use the preview button? n_n by sk8dork · · Score: 0, Redundant

    The next effort to improve wireless security might involve a trip to Home Depot. Force Field Wireless sells buckets of aluminum and copped-laced paint designed to prevent the 802.11 packets from escaping the building, Information Week reports.

    you mean copper-laced?

    --
    ...all cock-blockery aside...
  11. Ok... wow... misread by Dirtside · · Score: 4, Funny

    At first glance I saw "Wireless Security By Gollum". I can't even begin to figure out what that might involve. The One Token Ring, perhaps?

    --
    "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    1. Re:Ok... wow... misread by SlinkyToad · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or maybe a Tolkien Ring network...

      -the Slink

      "One Ring to Rule them all..."

    2. Re:Ok... wow... misread by emc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Score: -1, Groan)

    3. Re:Ok... wow... misread by LuckyPhil · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Wireless Security By Gollum"

      New book: Hacking Wireless Security by Gollum -"What have you got in your packets???"

    4. Re:Ok... wow... misread by cshark · · Score: 1

      Or maybe it means that the security system is made out of clay and possessed by a benign demon who does not possess the power of speech? Never mind...

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

  12. What else does it block? by millahtime · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, it blocks an 802.11 signal. Wouldn't this mean that cordless phones would be blocked also. What about cell phones or old fashioned radios?

    This might me more of a pain than a solution

    1. Re:What else does it block? by ErikTheRed · · Score: 1

      You beat me to it. All of a sudden I'm getting a NO CARRIER from my FM Radio and cell phone. And do we have to paint over our windows as well? This is an incredibly poorly-thought-out solution.

      Oh, and who the hell modded the parent post "off-topic"???

      --

      Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    2. Re:What else does it block? by nrd907s · · Score: 4, Informative
      From the article:

      There are drawbacks to the paint. It doesn't just block wireless networks. In the home, it would block the one or two remaining TVs connected to rabbit ears. More important, it blocks mobile-phone signals.

      The company also makes a window film that cuts down on signal leakage: A 30-inch-by-25-foot roll is priced at $45.
    3. Re:What else does it block? by Kelerain · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its true this may not be the best wifi security solution (ethernet anyone?) but it would be *great* for say, theaters. No more annoying cell phones going off durring the movies! There are other issues to deal with, such as liability (doctors on call etc) but as long as you posted a sign that explained as such, things should be alright. It would be a great solution, and much easier to apply than expensive pannels and such that have been tried before.

    4. Re:What else does it block? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      should you get a karma bonus?

      (I'm not the bearer of that sig.)

      Thats a good question. Should karma reward only insightful posts or should it reward people who start insightful discussions as well?

      Honestly, 50% of the trolls never get a response, and probably 50% of the responses are likewise trollish and don't get modded up.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:What else does it block? by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      would be *great* for say, theaters. No more annoying cell phones going off

      I've heard cellphones that beep repeatedly to let you know you're out of service range.

      Of course, in a theatre situation, maybe that would remind the person to shut it off, or at least provide a homing beacon for those that want to shut it off for him before the movie starts.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    6. Re:What else does it block? by dajak · · Score: 1

      I can imagine it is a solution for some middle-eastern governments. Sometimes you just want to block signals, going in or out. If I was worrying about the US attacking me, for instance, I would coat everything important with this stuff. On the inside, of course.

      I am going to buy shares in metal detectors. Don't tell anyone.

    7. Re:What else does it block? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You disable my cell phone, I stop going to theaters. It's that simple and there are enough like me that would do the same. Enough would do it that the theater would loose money. I am not the idoit who's phone blares "Hit Me Baby One More Time" in the middle of the movie. I rely on my phone in vibe mode as a emergency contact when I leave my son at the sitters and if they can't get through TO ME, there's hell to pay. Now take your freaking jihad against phones ringing in movies and shove it where the son doesn't shine.

    8. Re:What else does it block? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Of course, in a theatre situation, maybe that would remind the person to shut it off, or at least provide a homing beacon for those that want to shut it off for him before the movie starts.

      Or create some sort of targeting system that would paint the offending owner with a mid-wattage laser. Not only would everyone know who the offender was, but the temporary blindness would keep them out of future showings!

    9. Re:What else does it block? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many regular window tint films cut down on wireless signals. If your tinted car has its radio antennae mounted on the window you may have already noticed this.

    10. Re:What else does it block? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You disable my cell phone, I stop going to theaters.

      Good.

      the theater would loose money

      "lose".

      I am not the idoit who's phone blares

      "whose".

      where the son doesn't shine

      "sun".

      The way to solve your "boo-hoo can't reach me personally" problem is to leave the sitter the number of the movie theater. If it's a true emergency, a real, real, emergency that really really requires you presence, somone in the theater will find you. But if it's a real real emergency, the sitter would probably be better off phoning the police, fire department, etc.

    11. Re:What else does it block? by cshark · · Score: 1

      Thing is, now it's Wifi, which is theoretically an outgoing signal. But what happens when Wifi is replaced by Wimax, which is for the most part an incoming signal? If aluminum paint will block that kind of signal (which is preposterous.), don't you think it would work on both types of signal, in both directions?

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    12. Re:What else does it block? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One or two remaining? There has to be more than that! How can you say no to free TV? Just turn it on, and right there, at no cost to you...oh my goodness. This is crap. Never mind.

  13. Good old.. by Gorffy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Paranoia. The true mother of all invention.

  14. Well... by imsabbel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As this "security improvement" only affects computers in specially prepared rooms, WHY THE FUCK use wireless at all? A nice Cat5 is 10times faster than wifi, and even more tempest-proof than a metal painted room.
    Not to mention that even to most fancy cable management system will be less work and cost than painting all walls+ceiling (and what about the floor if you arent in the basement?)...

    --
    HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    1. Re:Well... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      of course, twisted pair leaks a little as well, maybe coax would be better for the truly paranoid, or fibre with shielded transceivers?

    2. Re:Well... by TheFlyingGoat · · Score: 1

      I agree with your entire post, but feel the need to point out that it'd be far easier just adding this stuff to some exterior paint and slapping it on your entire house. Won't cover the roof, but you could always paint the boards before putting down shingles, or even line your attic with aluminum foil.

      Like you said, though... far easier to install some cat5.

      --
      You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Well... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Funny

      What's to stop you from painting the shingles? Aesthetics don't matter- this stuff is probably gunmetal grey anyway.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:Well... by rednip · · Score: 3, Insightful
      As this "security improvement" only affects computers in specially prepared rooms...more tempest-proof than a metal painted room
      No the special rooms mentioned in the article are the Faraday cage, with which they compare the effect. This is what happens when you skim an article, just looking for something to bitch about. The article clearly states that this paint is intended for entire buildings, for example (from the article):
      DefendAir would be an attractive option to protect an RFID-enabled warehouse, he says.
      Also
      More important, it blocks mobile-phone signals.
      Can you imagine the benifit of using it in the outside paint for a movie theater, or resturant. You whouldn't even have to use jammers (which whould bleed into the street and are illegal anyways) to achieve freedom from hearing only one side of someone's conversation.
      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    5. Re:Well... by Glendale2x · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As this "security improvement" only affects computers in specially prepared rooms, WHY THE FUCK use wireless at all? A nice Cat5 is 10times faster than wifi, and even more tempest-proof than a metal painted room.

      Using Cat5 over wireless is a massive security improvement in itself, also available from the Home Depot. Cable ends and crimpers are available too, and at a cost far less than the paint. I suspect the paint is for suckering in people who think 802.11 is the only thing there is. The rest of us who actually care and want to save some money will continue to run cables.

      Every time I see something about "wireless security" I always wonder why people spend so damn much money (like the paint) and effort (new encryption schemes) on it when if you really cared about security you wouldn't be using it in the first place. "Wireless security" is good to stop someone from casually using your access point, but is no substitution for real security and encryption.

      Even then, people pick stupid or easy to remember passwords for their base stations, or open the window of their wireless-defeating painted room, thereby making it all a moot point.

      --
      this is my sig
    6. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +5 best reply to submission.

    7. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck singling out an individual signal from the noise created by a bundled run of 50 unshielded cat5 cables.

    8. Re:Well... by aminorex · · Score: 1

      I think the great value of faraday sheilding for most people would lie in cutting down on interference from the outside world, rather than in preventing one's own data from leaking out.
      It's a great crapfilter.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    9. Re:Well... by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      You can run Cat5 over wireless now??
      This paint would also reduce the threat of someone sneaking a Wifi access point into the building to spy on you from a distance even if you only have a wired network.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    10. Re:Well... by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      You can run Cat5 over wireless now??

      I use Cat5 over wireless, not run it over wireless.

      Although a local grammar Nazi would be able to tell if my use of the phrase "Using Cat5 over wireless" instead of "Using Cat5 instead of wireless" is correct. I meant the word "over" in the former to be used as a preposition.

      --
      this is my sig
    11. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wireless networks withstand EMP in the laboratory at a much higher rate then a wired network which acts as a giant antenna. This is a good reason for military networks to go wireless. The big issue with wireless is security, but that is also a concern for a wired network. In a wired situation with a secure facility you have more control over your network but this may give you a false sense of security. If your physical security was breached only at the location of the wire, your network could become compromised just as easily as if your network was wireless. In a sense, a wireless network simply brings to front the issue of encryption which should be a concern even if your network is wired and in physically secure location.

    12. Re:Well... by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      It's a great crapfilter.

      They should put a Faraday Cage over Slashdot

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    13. Re:Well... by iamacat · · Score: 1

      ...to achieve freedom from hearing only one side of someone's conversation.

      Do you also want to prevent others from talking in a foreign language while in the restaurant? If not, some places can ask people to keep silent or talk quietly, but otherwise a phone call is no different from talking to someone in person.

    14. Re:Well... by rednip · · Score: 1
      I am fairly convinced that the problem which most people have with cell phone users is that they cannot hear both sides of the converstation, hence my comment. Personally, I don't care about people carrying on conversations in resturants, but I know that many people do, including some that own them.

      Many have started to use 'cell phone jammers', which are illegal in the U.S. and I believe that it's a good law, but I do respect people's wish to create 'quite zones' on their private property. The previously mentioned paint additive can allow this, and does so without infringing on the rights of people who happen to be nearby. I didn't say this before, but I believe that this will be the most common usage of this technology.

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    15. Re:Well... by iamacat · · Score: 1

      I am fairly convinced that the problem which most people have with cell phone users is that they cannot hear both sides of the converstation, hence my comment. Personally, I don't care about people carrying on conversations in resturants, but I know that many people do, including some that own them.

      Well, say I am a neighbor of that restaurant and don't like fish smell coming from their kitchen. Should I have right to block their seafood delivery trucks? If not, they have no business using jammers or metalic paint to block my cell phone signal.

    16. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You assume Cat5 cables (unshielded twisted pairs) don't radiate. But radiate they do, perhaps -30dB compared to an actual antenna, but still enough to be intercepted. They're typically worse than the old coax ethernet systems (depending on the quality of the coax cable, connector installation, and the LAN card design). If you want genuinely secure links, optical fiber is the best technology on today's market.

    17. Re:Well... by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      EMP is an excellent point... I'd mod you up if I could.

      --
      this is my sig
  15. Wonderful! by deemaunik · · Score: 0, Redundant

    A tinfoil hat for my house! WiFi kept in, Mind Control Rays kept out!

  16. And what about windows? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

    Without covering windows and guaranteeing an effective mesh cover to create a faraday cage, you cannot guarantee no transmission, only signal degradation.

    You'd still be better off with grounded wire mesh and plaster in an older house if you wanted to imitate your tin foil hat.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    1. Re:And what about windows? by detour207 · · Score: 1

      Without covering windows and guaranteeing an effective mesh cover to create a faraday cage, you cannot guarantee no transmission, only signal degradation.

      From TFA: The company also makes a window film that cuts down on signal leakage: A 30-inch-by-25-foot roll is priced at $45.

    2. Re:And what about windows? by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1

      We just this summer got a new sliding glass door installed. As the guy was giving us his pitch he was telling us about its resistance to heating up a room due to sunlight. One thing he mentiond was there were aluminium flecks in the glass to bounce off sunlight, I made him repeat that part. I have always wanted to try wifi across it and see what would happen. So in answer to your question : buy new windows?

      Sera

      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
    3. Re:And what about windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      " Without covering windows"

      If it is Windows you are concerned about try Zone Alarm.

    4. Re:And what about windows? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      The solution is to mount an unshielded microwave magnetron on your roof. The microwave noise from that sucker will keep just about everybody from associating to your AP, including you. It might also result in some bird/squirrel carcasses on the roof, and a nasty visit from the FCC and most likely the FDA as well.

    5. Re:And what about windows? by dajak · · Score: 1

      Simple. Our ancestors already solved these problems long ago in their struggle against the mind-reading inquisition, but we forgot about it.

      - Try to find panes of glass made in the 19th century with a blue shine. It contains cadmium pigment.
      - Install leaded glass windows.
      - Paint the house with paint containing lead.
      - Use lead roof tiles.

      Some or all of these things may be prohibited in your country because they "damage your health". Now you know the real reason.

    6. Re:And what about windows? by theantipode · · Score: 0

      Works great for surplus population control, too, since everyone in the surrounding area will be too blind and sterile to copulate... properly. Damned if I won't try my hardest, though.

      --
      When I am king, you will be first against the wall
      With your opinion which is of no consequence at all
  17. while you're at home depot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    take a look at the WAPs. some locations do the WEP equivalent of putting the password on a post-it on the monitor...

  18. Fellow Citizen could you help by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

    I'm only red clearance, but the computer told me to paint the walls orange to improve security against traitors. Once painted, I'll be in violation of my code. Could the computer have made a mistake?

    1. Re:Fellow Citizen could you help by mahdi13 · · Score: 1

      The Computer never makes a mistake, such thinking is traitorous!
      Please report to the nearest termination terminal and remember, the Computer is your friend.
      Be happy or be deemed a traitor to the Computer you Commie mutant!

      --
      "Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
    2. Re:Fellow Citizen could you help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's that from?

  19. Stating the obvious by tedtimmons · · Score: 2

    Paint not safe for painting on head.

    Can you put an RFID tag on a product such as this? What if someone painted over the RFID/antitheft tags with this paint?

    -ted

  20. or fill the wall cavities by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    If you do fill your cavities with similar such stuff spare a thought for the cable droppers eh?

  21. Paint Chips by millahtime · · Score: 1

    I wonder what happens if you eat the paint chips? Does your body become impervious to those evil signals. No more need for the tin foil hat.

    1. Re:Paint Chips by rednip · · Score: 1

      Go ahead, give it a try it can't be any worse than Colloidal silver Treatments

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
  22. Dong, Where is my automobile? by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Convincing consumers to take wireless security seriously has been harder. "They see it like tinfoil on your head," Wray says. "They think it's kind of paranoid."

    Uh, it is kind of paranoid.

    And it's surely no substitute for a robust encryption scheme.

    Since it's commercial in nature, how many modern offices can really do without cell phones and pagers?

    Oh, and 64 bucks seems ridiculously expensive for latex paint with aluminum and copper filings mixed in.

    This seems like one of those "theres a sucker born every minute" products, like monster cables, or green cd films to make your cds sound better.

    Then again, who needs Old Glory Robot insurance if the robots cant detect you inside your house!

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Dong, Where is my automobile? by sqrt(2) · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      They eat old people's medicine for fuel.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    2. Re:Dong, Where is my automobile? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, No, No.

      IN KOREA they eat old people's medicine for fuel.

    3. Re:Dong, Where is my automobile? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's surely no substitute for a robust encryption scheme.

      Which is no substitute for using wired networking - [currently] slower speeds, and a reality to have to enforce encryption on any traffic across your LAN. How sad is it when you HAVE to SSH/VPN tunnel to use your printer? Nevermind the added overhead to make the less than stellar wireless speeds even less stellar....

      Encryption is effectively useless when there's 24-7 public access that doesn't even require line of sight - it's only a matter of time. So much wasted effort for the sake of one less cord...

  23. ... Hmmmm ... by ninjagin · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I checked out the page and the concept seems pretty neat -- kinda like painting on your own faraday cage. I wonder how well it affects the color or application of the paint. The window-tinty film is also a pretty cool concept, too, though it looks like it'd cut down on a lot of visible daylight along with keeping your wifi in. I like my sunshine.

    The burning question I have (and hopefully a smarter-person-than-I can clue me in) is how is this going to affect my AM/FM/SW radio reception inside my house? It almost seems like a rooftop antenna would become a must-have, assuming that the blockage of signal would keep all those friendly informational radio waves from getting INTO my house.

    --
    .. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
    1. Re:... Hmmmm ... by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Yep, it will block the rabbit ears on your TV and the antenna in your clock radio.

      Not to mention your cell phone and your pager.

      They're looking to con^H^H^H sell to businesses and government agencies too dense to secure their networks properly.

      And at almost 70 bucks a gallon, it's three times more expensive than even the uppity Ralph Lauren paint HD sells. (Heh.. I get a kick out of seeing yuppies pay extra for the nametag on what truly is inferior paint to Behr or Dutch Boy.. I painted houses for a while to make beer money in Uni)

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:... Hmmmm ... by Not_Wiggins · · Score: 1

      I checked out the page and the concept seems pretty neat -- kinda like painting on your own faraday cage.

      Which is to say, this isn't much more difficult to do than stapling up wire mesh. Heck, if one puts up wall-paper, then putting wire-mesh behind it shouldn't be too much more difficult and would be much cheaper than this "paint."

      Or, go the extra step: what happens when one tires of the faraday cage and wants to allow signals in from the outside/let signal out? What would one do THEN?!?

      But as others have pointed out: if one is so paranoid about having their wireless getting broken into/"stolen" and they're willing to put this uber-expensive paint on all their walls, maybe they'd be better off putting the same money into running physical wiring instead.

      --
      Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
  24. Wrong idea by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Funny

    FTFA:

    "It was my concept along with my colleague, Diane Lopez," says Wray, a former network engineer with Networks Associates. "We knew of people inundated with interference on their wireless systems. In fact, Diane, in her apartment, could find eight wireless networks around her. She needed to shield herself."

    No, she needed to stop wasting money on broadband and mooch off her neighbors.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Wrong idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I've seriously considered this. I've got 4 wifi laptops, if I associate each one with a different neighbor's access point and use them all for Bittorrent downloading I could quadruple my bandwidth, and cancel my broadband account. A win-win situation! No more envy of the people in countries with 10mb home access for $20 a month, I would have 12mb access for FREE :)

  25. Re:use the preview button? n_n by sk8dork · · Score: 0

    yes, redundant...because i should have read everyone else say the same thing i said in the same minute my post was being processed...

    --
    ...all cock-blockery aside...
  26. Does this work at all? by Couzin2000 · · Score: 0

    Seriously, folks, I'd be hard-pressed to see that paint in action. This is something that would definitely have it's applications (no pun intended), but for an everyday purpose? Hmm. I guess that means I buy paint and don't have to worry about a firewall, an anti-spam and anti-virus app... Oh wait, it doesn't filter spam? Aww.

    For the everyday person, this sort of paint is kinda pointless. Besides, wasn't there a big issue a couple years back about lead paint being banned from any commercial use? Hope this doesn't give me cancer, too.

    --
    Sébastien Ferland couzin2000@gmail.com freedom | liberté | libertad | freiheit | libertà libertade |
    1. Re:Does this work at all? by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lead doesn't give you cancer, it slowly accumulates until it causes dementia, Alzheimers, or death.

      Check out the story of Sir John Franklin, who tried to lead an expedition in Canada to find the northwest passage, back in the olden days. They found the party dead, having abandoned their ship, but they took ridiculous items with them, like an old dresser, instead of food and supplies that could have kept them alive.

      The story goes they all went insane from the lead used in the canned food they were eating.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  27. Letter to the editor. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would it be too difficult for you to edit TFA prior to posting? From the article:

    and copped-laced paint
    the Firce Field's pitch

    Who do you think you are, CmdrTaco?

  28. fire hazard by iggymanz · · Score: 1, Insightful

    metallic paint might do the "Hindenburg thing" and quickly engulf the room. Also, metal fires are hard to put out.

  29. Legal to sell in some states? by ARRRLovin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd like to see the MSDS(Material Safety Data Sheet) for those products. Adding heavy metals to non-commercial coatings can't be legal everywhere. I used to work in the retail coating industry (neighborhood paint store) and even just your standard bathroom paint is regulated heavily. So heavily it makes other EPA legislature look completely logical!

    --
    -Randy
    1. Re:Legal to sell in some states? by BurritoJ · · Score: 1

      Just FYI... copper and aluminum aren't considered heavy metals.

  30. You can be your own lightning rod, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    And don't turn on the lights when you're in the shower.

    Ahh, the benefits of conductive paint.

  31. non-toxic? by cindy · · Score: 1

    The article and the web site say this stuff is non-toxic. Copper is a well known biocide used in bottom paint to kill marine life that likes to live on boats. How is this any different (except for the lower price - it doesn't say "marine" on the lable).

    1. Re:non-toxic? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      it's non-toxic as applied...

      of course it's toxic when it's still wet!! but after it dries it's encapsulated and safe for everyday use.

  32. Gallon? by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 0

    Would that be the US half-measure; or the full on Imperial version that takes no prisoners, and makes young ladies feint?

  33. wires-r-us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are really worried about security, you'll use wires. It's not that hard. It's not that inconvienient. It *is* that much more secure. The best security is physical security...

    1. Re:wires-r-us by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Is all the work of repainting, refitting the windows and doors with special "anti-RF" films, really easier than snaking a few hundred yards of Cat 6?

      If your shit is that sensitive, you shouldn't be broadcasting it at all.

      Then again, "WiFi" is required for complete buzzword compliance.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  34. DHS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But I already have plastic sheeting and duct tape on my windows, if that will stop terrorist attacks surely it will stop wifi signals.

  35. Only available on April 1st. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    This product will be shipped in used Pringles cartons on April 1st 2005.

  36. Environmental Effects by theycallmerenda · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What are the environmental effects of this type of paint? I would think that direct exposure to this paint (i.e. with no outer layer of nontoxic / latex) would be harmful. Boatowners use copper-based paints to keep barnacles from growing on the bottom of their hulls in saltwater. Designed to flake off over time, the paint is poisonous to sealife and highly toxic to humans. How safe can this stuff be? Do we really need more harmful metals dispersed in our environment?

    1. Re:Environmental Effects by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Pennies are coated in copper, and we handle those all the time, and little children even put them in their mouths and swallow them. Is the exposure from this paint going to be greater than that from pennies and other everyday copper objects? I sort of doubt it.

  37. USA Government has already dealt with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    very sensitive operations (read intel or defense) are done in buildings with wiremesh throughout the walls. As other groups such as social security, well, they run Windows for a web server. I think it is safe to say that security of our infoirmation is not job 1 (or 2, or 3, or 4, or ...).

    1. Re:USA Government has already dealt with this by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      I used to work for a defense contractor that build "radio equipment" for the govt. They were located in a fairly populated part of town...so they had entire labs for RF testing with coppermesh under the paneling of every door and wall. aside from the fact that it's probably terribly expensive, it was kinda cool.

      I'd think the biggest purchasers of this paint would be stores and movie theaters... That'd be a cruel/cool trick to play on moviegoers rather than jamming the signals, just paint the walls with this paint when you remodel!

  38. Could be useful by cperciva · · Score: 1

    Now, we should all be using encryption on our wireless networks, so I wouldn't suggest this as a mechanism for wireless security -- furthermore, I'm sure this isn't 100% effective, so any determined attacker would simply turn up his amplifier by a few dB.

    That said, this could be a useful way of protecting against unintentional transmissions. Our computers are doing an awful lot of radiating, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was enough leakage to provide an effective cryptographic side-channel. Paint your walls with copper, and even if you only block out 90% of the leakage, you may well have reduced an already marginal signal enough to stop an attacker.

  39. First put metal and then foam.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are that paranoid then would suggest make you house out of metal and then use foam on the walls. When you are finished with the house then get into a straight-jacket and enjoy.

  40. You have questions, I have answers. by FreeLinux · · Score: 4, Informative

    Q. Does it really work?

    A. Yes, to some extent. The metalic paint does effectively impede radio signals however, it is not 100% effective. Some signal may still leak through the paint also, untreated windows and doors will allow the signal to leak. None the less, signal propagation is greatly reduced by the paint, which was the primary reason for its development.

    Q. What about cordless phones?

    A. This paint will affect most radio signals including corless and cell phones, AM/FM radio, broadcast TV and more. The overall effect will vary depending on paint application quality, signal frequency and strength, as well as other factors.

    Q. Is this paint a health risk?

    A. Copper based paint, commonly used in marine applications, is a known health risk and environmental hazard. While there is little data available for aluminum based paints, there do not appear to be significant health risks at this time. This does not mean that there aren't health risks associated with aluminum based paints.

    1. Re:You have questions, I have answers. by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      I've read many times about a possible link between aluminum and alzheimers, primarily aluminum in cookware and canned foods.

      Also, I don't know what timothy is on, but hanging wallpaper is easier and a whole lot less messy. It just looks like shit when it's done. Just my personal opinion though.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:You have questions, I have answers. by z0rc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Copper is regulated in its use in California. It is not regulated Federally, but some other states probably regulate it. The primary reason copper is regulated is that it is fairly highly toxic to plant life, and in particular to marine life....Here is a link to a MSDS, http://www.agrium.com/uploads/Ultra_Yield_Copper_O xy_Sulfate_12_percent_MSDS14189.pdf [pdf sorry] scroll down to section 12, ecological information where it says ECOTOXICITY May be harmful to livestock and wildlife if ingested. Clean up all spilled material, especially where bulk fertilizer loading of equipment occurs to prevent animal exposure. Aquatic/Marine Toxicity: U.S. D.O.T.: This material is listed as a Severe Marine Pollutant. Slightly soluble. Slow release to watercourses may cause effects down stream from the point of release. These effects may be limited by recovery of spilled material if recovery is conducted immediately. Toxic to fish and other water organisms. If you wanted to build a serious faraday cage it seems to only be an OK way to go...replastering with chicken wire would be fantastic.

    3. Re:You have questions, I have answers. by MmmDee · · Score: 1
      While there is little data available for aluminum based paints, there do not appear to be significant health risks at this time

      Just ask the deodorant manufacturers about the potential link between their product and early-onset Alzheimer disease (the majority of such products include aluminum, one exception is Old Spice). Otherwise, we know aluminum is neurotoxic in animal models. I'm not saying there's a definite problem, but current studies have provided some controversial results (so what's new).

      --
      No man's an island, unless he's had too much to drink and wets the bed.
  41. Freedom by pete-classic · · Score: 1

    Don't you people realize that packets want to be free?

    -Peter

    1. Re:Freedom by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's okay, this isn't about packets, it's ethernet, so we're talking about frames.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Freedom by pete-classic · · Score: 1
      From the fine summary:
      [. . .] designed to prevent the 802.11 packets from escaping the building [. . .]

      I'm just working with what they give me, man.

      -Peter
  42. only here by LiquidMind · · Score: 0

    Only on slashdot will you find people that measure heat/energy in amounts of Libraries of Congress and wi-fi security in buckets.

    --
    This sig contains repetition and redundancy.
  43. already in effect where I work by Snafoo · · Score: 1

    I consult and some days I work in a beautiful office that's 90% windows. Great for wi-fi and cells, right? NNNNT! They're all coated with magic Anti Signal Coating, and (near as I can tell) the only way to get any sort of reception on any wireless equipment is to stick the thing out the window or walk outside.

    --
    - undoware.ca
  44. Prolly won't work by Helmholtz+Coil · · Score: 1

    There'll be some attenuation, sure, but don't forget the signal you get after going through one of these painted-on Faraday cages also depends on how strong the original signal was. Even if you put steel plates up if you blast the signal strongly enough something will get through.

    Case in point: a few weeks ago I took a regular ol' D-Link 802.11b router, took its antenna off, and threw it in a steel toolbox. Closed the lid, weighed it down. I was still able to get a halfway decent signal from more than 20 feet away.

    Yes, there would be some leakage around the edges of the toolbox, especially around the router's power cable. Still, I think that one of these rooms would fare worse.
    1. Re:Prolly won't work by badmonkey · · Score: 1

      You weighed down the lid? Were you afraid the router or its signal would have tried to open the lid if it were not weighted?

    2. Re:Prolly won't work by Helmholtz+Coil · · Score: 1

      Something like that. :)

      I wanted to try and keep the signal leakage down, and I was worried that the lid would keep open a crack with the power cable sticking out of it. Weighting it helped keep the lid tight and (I think) helped reduce leakage through the toolbox.
  45. Is it as good as Stucco and plaster? by Big_Al_B · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My buddy's house, with stucco out and plaster in, provides a very strong 802.11b-arrier. An AP in his neighbor's house (visible in a window) is only intermittently reachable from his den, standing by his own window, about 22 feet line-of-sight from the neighbor's AP.

    My neighborhood, a in a new development, is full of houses made from sticks, vinyl and wallboard. I can easily reach anywhere from 6 to 10 APs from just about anywhere in my house (and only 2 are mine.)

    1. Re:Is it as good as Stucco and plaster? by stratjakt · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not the paster or stucco, but the metal lath to which the stucco and plaster are adhered to.

      If you ever see it installed, they (usually) first staple up a thick metal mesh, which holds the plaster in place. Wood lath was the status quo in the really olden days, before steel became cheaper than hardwood strips.

      Norm Abrahms goes wardriving in this weeks episode of This Old House!

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Is it as good as Stucco and plaster? by Wapiti-eater · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's just a really crappy WAP.

      Like this ol Linksys here on the receptionists desk we use for a paper weight. Can't connect to it unless your laptop is with in 10' of it.

      Same laptop has no probs connecting to other WAPS at quite nice distances (parking lot 3 floors down as one)

      --
      Senior NCO in the fight against entropy. I've seen things, man. Things no one should have to see.....
    3. Re:Is it as good as Stucco and plaster? by Big_Al_B · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's just a really crappy WAP.

      Tested and dismissed. My friend stood in various spots in his yard, further from the AP than his Den window, and could get a loud-and-clear signal.

    4. Re:Is it as good as Stucco and plaster? by dajak · · Score: 1

      In some 17th century houses in Amsterdam nothing will get through. Lead paint. Even the windows contain lead or cadmium, if they are really old.

    5. Re:Is it as good as Stucco and plaster? by Deideldorfer · · Score: 0

      The interior of my entire house is plaster over a metal mesh. When standing in front of my bay window, I can get a better signal from houses 100ft away than from my AP through 2 or 3 walls made of plaster only 20ft away.

      From outside the house, I can hardly see my signal, but the neighbor's signals are quite strong.

      It's like my house has a tinfoil bodysuit!

      --

      Power off before disconnecting connecting connector. Seen on a cash register
  46. Re:use the preview button? n_n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't feel too bad; I've had posts marked redundant that were completely original.

  47. OT: glowing letters by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Hey folks -

    A few years ago I had a metallic paint pen. If you burnt the paper that had markings from this pen on it, the ink would glow brightly for a brief time before going out. It was a neat effect, glowing words.

    Now I'm trying to re-create this effect for a film project, and I've had no luck. I've bought out the pen section at staples, tried various metallic paint pens, and none of them do this.

    The idea is to have the credits written on a piece of paper, totally unlit, so all you see is darkness. As the flame creeps across the page, the letters will glow as the flame hits them. How could I do this?

    --
    Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
    -- Pablo Picasso
    1. Re:OT: glowing letters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was there magnesium in the pens ink/paint, perhaps? It glows brightly when it oxidizes (burns). Maybe some googling for a metallic paint with magnesium in it will help.

      Sounds kind of neat. Post pics if/when you find it.

    2. Re:OT: glowing letters by darth_MALL · · Score: 1

      hmm...perhaps a magnesium embossing dye? Google for it, but I'm pretty sure magnesium will burn brighter than the paper. Just a thought.

    3. Re:OT: glowing letters by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Funny

      Um, sure, is your email ac@slashdot.org?

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
  48. Easy fix if security is an issue. by theparanoidcynic · · Score: 1

    It's pretty hard to snoop packets on a chunk of Cat5. If the traffic is sensitive just use that. Cheaper and faster anyway.

    --
    Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
  49. what's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hmmm, I walk down the street and soon I find other open access over wireless. I don't see how this is news other than the (sic) humour in some paranoid person painting their building in toxic substances.

    Access to the internet is free and becoming freer everyday. Free as in libre, as we can voice what was mostly suppressed in the past. And free as in free beer, as we easily build more, use and freely distribute more of this infrastructure called the internet. Even though some dinosaurs are determined to start wars in order to hold on to what they are losing, there is no way to stop the inevitable torrent. Yes, we are quickly learning more truths everyday.

    Why read slashdot, when I can get all of the sports news I need on Fox?

  50. Lead Paint Anyone? by rearden · · Score: 1

    Looks like lead laced paint may just make a comeback after so many years being scorned. Dupont may have just found a way to dispose of all that "hazardous waste" they have buried somewhere! ... just dont lick the walls!

    --
    Huh?
  51. Re:use the preview button? n_n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yah, but now that he complained about it he'll get the extra added bonus of his complaint being modded down too, probably resulting in his posting at -1 until he finally gives up and creates a new account, or just decides to become a full-time troll.

  52. Sir. The radar, sir. It appears to be... jammed. by St.+Arbirix · · Score: 1

    Force Field has been trying to interest the Department of Homeland Security, but discussions are ongoing, Wray says. "Ironically, we have had foreign governments contact us--from the Middle East. Kind of scary." Wray says he won't sell to them.

    But he'll sure as hell let the U.S. drop it on them. I foresee a new wave on non-lethal radar seeking missiles with latex payloads.

    Got an ICBM headed at you? No problem, just spray the area of its path with a fine latex mist. These guys just put the Bush missile-defense plans back on budget!

    --
    Direct away from face when opening.
  53. Good by Ed+Thomson · · Score: 2, Funny

    Finally I have a reason to paint over the windows to get rid of that pesky Sun.

    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha! Nice try there trying to trick us.

      Everyone knows most geeks live in their mums basements and therefore have no windows!

    2. Re:Good by Dwonis · · Score: 1

      Wrong! Some of us live in Mom's attic...

  54. Seems dopey to me by museumpeace · · Score: 1

    Do you paint your windows too? If the stuff really works, you are NOT going to be able to use your lap top out in the back yard. My aluminum siding probably works just as well and affords me a little fire protection into the bargain. Besides, Home Depot makes huge donations to the republican party. fuhgiddaboudit!

    --
    SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
  55. Spelling? by ChreodeRiot · · Score: 1

    I'd liked to get me won o' them Copped Firce Fields!

  56. No need for hats anymore by missing000 · · Score: 1

    Why even go for the hat when you have lots of wall candy all around?

    1. Re:No need for hats anymore by DarkMantle · · Score: 1

      Alright.... to parent, and grandparent post. After the day I had... thanks for the laugh, I needed that badly.

      --
      DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
  57. How to : glowing letters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a product called "Fire Ribbon". REI and other camping
    and outdoor stores sell it. It is a petroleum-based paste, and is sold in a tube.

    Its intended use is as an aid to ingiting damp wood and other outdoor fire-building materials.

    This stuff would probably do what you want.

    Just tell 'em Drew Barrymore sent you ;-)
    ( ref : old Stephen King film )

  58. My Patentable Business Plan by Marge+N.+Lacoste · · Score: 1
    1. Sell Oscar Overclocker a high-gain antenna as an upgrade to their existing wi-fi access point.
    Offer nominal discount for trade-in of OEM antenna.

    2. Sell Tim Tinfoilhat a mismatched, obsolete OEM antenna (aka High Security Antenna),
    randomly chosen out of my box of trade-ins.

    3. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

    4. Commission study that "proves" that the H.S.A. is superior to lousy ol' metal paint.
    Stick fingers in ears and say "LA LA LA LA" when contradicted.

    5. Sell business to Canopy Group, but keep all patents and copyrights.
    Neglect to point this out to them at the time.

  59. What about 802.11a??? by Leadhyena · · Score: 1
    FTA: When spread evenly on a wall, the paint reflects signals in frequencies from 100 MHz to 5 GHz.

    Won't 802.11a signals which operate in three bands all above 5GHz still pass through this stuff normally? I know that 802.11a doesn't pass through walls well anyway, but I would hate to purchase gallons of this stuff at their prices for a false sense of security.

    Not to mention also that my cell phone wouldn't work in that room either. This stuff seems to be more trouble than it's worth. Better to build real network security that to depend on physical obstructions.

  60. Aluminum siding? by MrNovember · · Score: 1

    Um... my house is entirely covered in relatively thick metal -- aluminum specifically. It doesn't do much with respect to my 802.11 signal getting out. I can still work in my backyard through a layer of aluminum and two walls.

    A wee paint layer with some metal in it won't do diddly if my 50s aluminum siding doesn't.

  61. Too much *and* too little by rarose · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is too little protection for the people who need it (i.e. corporate/government protection), so those folks will opt for more serious protection.

    This is too much protection for Joe Casual User who will pissed at bad cellphone reception, bad TV reception, bad coreless phone. Or downright ineffectiveness if they don't also paint the ceiling, floor and windows. (Note on business plan: Shit! Windows???!? What are we going to do about windows? )

    Thumbs down.

    --
    --Rob
    1. Re:Too much *and* too little by dbacher · · Score: 1

      They are selling a separate coating (a tint) for the windows and doors, so that front is covered.

      Rest of setiment agreed with, however.

      --
      If your code is acting bloated, and is running rather slow, it's likely and predicted that some loops you will unroll.
    2. Re:Too much *and* too little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "Shit! Windows???!? What are we going to do about windows?"

      Is it just me or are "windows" a security risk by *nature*?

    3. Re:Too much *and* too little by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      Is it just me or are "windows" a security risk by *nature*?

      Surely they must be safe, they're digitally signed and everything...

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  62. There's a problem with the rooftop antenna by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    RF loves to leak. It is darn hard to retrofit a faraday cage into a normal looking room. The gap between the paint and the window film will leak. The door gaps will leak. The cable to your rooftop antenna will provide a path for leaks. The ac lines will provide a path for leaks. Don't forget about the floor.

    Once you have the whole thing leak proof then as you guessed, no other wireless stuff (AM/FM/cellphone) will get through.

    People pay big bucks to prevent RF leaks (ie. EMT compliance) because they are non-trivial to prevent. The pathetic thing about this is that it will give people a false sense of security. ie. It will make things worse because people won't do the other things that actually will work. My favorite solution: don't use wireless.

  63. Other use: blocking ELF (60Hz)? by noidentity · · Score: 1

    Setting aside the matter of whether or not low-frequency electromagnetic radiation poses a biological hazard, would this paint also serve as a shield for this electromagnetic radiation?

    1. Re:Other use: blocking ELF (60Hz)? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it should, but at the same time it doesn't take much to block ELF, according to Google a wire mesh smaller than about 5000 kilometers in diameter should be enough to stop the radiation. Of course, there are other factors to consider, but that would indicate most any building would have enough shielding to stop it.

  64. copped-laced paint by starrsoft · · Score: 1
    copped-laced paint

    Isn't that copper-laced paint?

    --
    Read my blog: HansMast.com
  65. Wireless Dampening Paint by twzop · · Score: 1

    The show "The Screen Savers" on G4 Tech TV did a demonstration with this paint. It was successful with lowering the dB gain of the signal, but did not keep the signal contained. They used 4+ coats of the paint that has metal in it on a small room that resembled an old out house.

  66. Safety.. by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

    So, how safe is this stuff if your house catches fire? Previously we had some form of latex paint putting fumes into the air... now a copper laced paint tossing its fumes up? Dunno about that one.

    Why not just build sheetrock with a wire mesh built into it?

  67. Directional Antennae? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

    Many people I know have wireless networks, but move the nodes only rarely. Wouldn't directional antennas be a good option for these people? They achieve longer ranges and/or lower power consumption, and are harder to eavesdrop on and send malicious packets to.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  68. G4 Tech TV by pipingguy · · Score: 1


    Didn't Screensavers pre-redesign do a bit on this?

    Alex was a loose cannon, slamming advertisers. Note that the new version has no studio audience and no woo-hoo guys.

  69. So... by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

    I can hang my tinfoil hat in on the hatrack while I'm inside my house now, right?

  70. Fiber Optics by Detritus · · Score: 1

    If you are really concerned about security, get rid of all your coax, cat5 and wireless hardware and replace it with fiber optics. That's what they use in modern facilities that have serious issues with security.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  71. Paint chips by Generic+Guy · · Score: 1

    Oh geat! Now what happens in 10 years after kids start eating the peeling "aluminum and copper" paint chips?

    --
    { - Generic Guy - }
  72. Other options by leighklotz · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Defend Air people don't give any data I can find on the dB-vs-MHz effectiveness of their product, but plenty of competitive technologies do. I wish they did, because I want to line my laundry room with the stuff! The washing machine makes a terrible racket in my radio.

    There's Hospital Quality shielding done with aluminum foil, and more serious shielding of both E and H fields for MRI machines. I won't even go into the RF-sealed doors...

    If you're concerned about magnetic fields, then Mu Metal is the stuff. Just don't bend any of the Hydrogen-annealed variety. You can get sheet and tape in small quantifies from these folks, who by the way also offer "Personal Protection Devices (silver-impregnated fiber baseball caps, not tinfoil hats, please) ...and their own copper paint which is startlingly more expensive than the DefendAir product...they even have the same window film that keeps out the sun, but also makes your cell phone not work.

    For sealing over the gaps, don't forget 3M 1181 Copper Tape, which features electrically-conducting adhesive, but only specifies 80dB isolation at 30MHz-1GHz.

    But my favorite so far is Metal Foam, which reminds me of the almost weightless foamed glass Aerogel that was a announced a few years ago... Foamed aluminum is available commercially in 2x2ft sheets from from Austria, Alulight. They claim 40dB isolation in the 2Ghz range and over 100dB to 140dB in the 10Mhz-1GHz range, plus excellent sound isolation, structural, and fire safety properties. What's not to like? Anybody know where the get this stuff in the US? Reade seems out of my range, but I'll ask them.

  73. Paradigm shift: Secure networks not shield them by SumDog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is astatine. Why in a technological age when we have so much control over protocols that we degrade ourselves to securing rooms by physical means. It's as retarded as wearing a tinfoil hat.

    Instead of blocking 802.11b/g frequencies with wall paint (along with cell-phones, radios and key-less car remotes) can't we use what's in place? You can design a router to restrict traffic based on hardware MAC address and design your DHCP servers to assign by MAC address. Create some scripts to synchronize your routing tables and DHCP configuration file with a single database, and you have a system to secure your wireless network.

    You can also use the WEP encryption, and if you're still uneasy about that with all the recent white papers that mention how to break it, make all your intranet servers with private information only accessible to the wireless subnets using secure protocols (https, imaps, pop3s, etc.)

    It's simpler, uses technology versus a metaphorical metal wall and cost a ton less.

  74. Sensitive buildings are already shielded by gtrubetskoy · · Score: 1

    but the only governments that got interested in anti-Wi-Fi paint were from the Middle East.

    This is because at least in the US (and probably in most civilized countries) buildings with sensitive information are already shielded and have been for decades. I've been in a couple of those by virtue of living in the DC area - sucks when your cell phone doesn't work.

  75. Environmental issues? by Zilfondel2 · · Score: 1

    With copper's known toxicity to organisms, this seems like a huge potential liability when it comes to safety in the home. What happens when children eat this paint chipping off the walls?

    I would hope they would test this to see if it is harmful to people before selling it. Oh well, profits over safety...no wonder we have all these damn lead-tainted houses in the US still.

    1. Re:Environmental issues? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess our children are dying from all the copper pennies they handle too?

  76. Get a life, grammar nazi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really.

  77. even a redneck's dream! by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 0
    Now we can have houses with glitter finishes to go along with our bass boats. I can hear Foxworthy and the rest of the rednecks drooling at the thought...

    "Eight-oh-what?! Who cares man! Look at the finish on that bad boy!"

    --

    kurzweil_freak

    5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

    Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

  78. But what about the windows ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and doors, and other building penetrations?

    Trying to turn a building into a Faraday cage as a security measure is probably going to cost quite a bit more time/effort/money than it would have taken to properly secure the wireless network with encryption protocols and/or VPN mechanisms.

  79. Re:Boy... (what is TEMPEST?) by RenaissanceGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting
    TEMPEST is a name associated with techniques to limit the amount of EM radiation emitted by devices used to handle sensitive information.

    It is a countermeasure to "Van Ek Phreaking", the blow-'em-away demonstration of which was a cart with a monitor and $100 worth of Radio-Shack parts that displayed the pictures that were on monitors in the curtained-off "non-disclosure-only" areas at a trade show, as it was wheeled by the booths.

    --
    What is the difference between a small revolutionary change and a large evolutionary change?
  80. Why Bother? by canofbutter · · Score: 1

    If it doesn't block 100% of the signal (which it doesn't), is it really worth doing? Why not just use something like authpf to keep unauthorized people off the network? If worried about people sniffing the contents without being on, why not use a VPN to encrypt all the traffic? That seems far better than this anyway, and it'd be practically free to implement on a cheap box running OpenBSD and OpenVPN...

  81. Homeowners be very careful with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    While the manufacturer claims the product contains no lead (that's because of lead paint laws), the concern would be the copper and aluminum itself.

    Asbestos was banned when fiberglass was available as an alternate solution to insulation. Fiberglass has been listed as a carcinogen in California. But I'll bet it won't be listed as a carcinogen in the rest of the US until a suitable replacement for it is found.

    That's how environmental law generally works. When you have a replacement, you ban the old stuff. With lead paint, as bad as it is considered today, it was considered a premium product in its heyday. It self cleaned (sun shines on it, develops chalky surface, the lead itself, rains, washes off the chalky surface), it is far more durable than the non-lead paints that replaced it, lasts longer, and has other desirable properties. One problem: the kids eat the paint chips, or far more common, play on the floor, put their hands on the lead dust on the floor, then put their hands in their mouths. End up with a high lead level in the blood, which migrates inside the bones long term, causing brain damage as they grow up.

    So lead was banned in 1960 in NYC housing and other areas, and banned federally in paint for housing in 1978. But was still allowed to be sold for 2 more years so the manufacturers wouldn't get stuck with a recall of stock on dealer shelves. What's the current situation? The lawyers are having a field day. The general procedure is, get the proof of blood test with high lead level result (mandatory blood-lead testing of children under 6 every year), attorney gets result, sends notice to property owner, notice says, notify your insurer that you received this letter of elevated blood-lead level poisoning, if insurance company is dumb enough to still be insuring you for lead coverage, immediate settlement offer, and dropping of homeowner insurance coverage (and resulting mortgage default for lack of property insurance).

    Sounds like a /. post, write letter, send to homeowner, profit!

    The manufacturer may tout the lack of lead. But copper is also a problem in the US. And aluminum should be a problem in the US, like it is a problem in Europe already. In the US (as probably many other countries), drinking water is tested not only for lead, but for copper as well. So copper entering the body is a problem. As for aluminum, it has been linked through studies on occasion to alzheimer's disease. That's why I avoid Rolaids and use Tums instead. And why I try to find (failing so far) anti-perspirants that don't contain aluminum. If copper and lead are problems, why not aluminum?

    Long term, this paint is likely to be a legal problem for the manufacturer, and any homeowner who uses it. And any homeowner who buys the house later. The manufacturer can simply move his assets elsewhere, declare bankruptcy and continue business under a new name. It is the homeowner who lacks the proper financial tools, financial ability to protect against lawsuits, and the knowledge to prevent this liability problem who is going to get screwed in the end. And the kids who are on the receiving end of the paint chips and dust that eventually will deteriorate and become ingested by many innocent kids.

    The instrument for surveying houses for lead paint costs about $20,000 with interest, is very expensive to maintain and keep working, and is difficult to possess under very restrictive licensing. Adding the ability to detect and survey aluminum and copper, without getting false postives on armored/metallic electrical wiring, copper pipes, and other false positives, fall within testing parameters established by governmental agencies is going to add tens of thousands to the cost. And that additional cost will be added to the survey cost to the homeowner, which is already at $250-$500 for an average 1 family house, and can run over $1,000 depending on how large the house is, and about $150-$200 per apartment when multiple apartments are done on the same day.

    1. Re:Homeowners be very careful with this by MmmDee · · Score: 3, Informative
      And why I try to find (failing so far) anti-perspirants that don't contain aluminum...

      fyi, Old Spice is aluminum free.

      --
      No man's an island, unless he's had too much to drink and wets the bed.
    2. Re:Homeowners be very careful with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      fyi, Old Spice is aluminum free.


      I top posted. For your info, Old Spice deodorant is aluminum free. As for Old Spice anti-perspirant (which doesn't just mask the b.o. with an additional scent, but also lessens perspiration on applied areas, unlike deodorant), and which I use, it contains aluminum the last time I checked (which has been a while since I haven't been looking lately).

      Using a deodorant is the same as slapping on some cologne or perfume instead of taking a shower. Deodorants are useless for controlling perspiration.
    3. Re:Homeowners be very careful with this by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      There's plenty of deoderants that use zinc based compounds, if it makes you feel better. Also, you can get rock salt deoderants that keep bacteria from growing - sweat but don't stink

      There's many different compounds of aluminum and copper (and a couple of those copper ones are good for you and needed by the body), and also don't confuse elemental forms with all the salts, ceramics, oxides, etc. A blanket statement that any and all compounds based on element x are bad and need to be abated is too broad, the whole crust of the earth has loads of aluminum silicates in it - one would have a hard time avoiding or abating dirt & clay & bedrock.

  82. Yummy Paint Chips!!! by cogito+ergo+blog · · Score: 1

    Okay so we all (hopefully) know the dangers of lead paint chips eaten by children. How long before some child eats aluminum or copper paint chips, kicking off massive regulatory uproar?

    When I bought my home it had to be certified as having lead free paint. How many kids have to suffer with unforeseen side effects before copper/aluminum paints are certified as harzardous, seriously impacting the value of any home painted with them.

    Do yourself a favor and steer clear of these products. They will likely be deemed toxic eventually.

    --
    "There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
  83. REAL Wireless Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If someone really wants wireless security, they can purchase some inexpensive gear: http://www.fortresstech.com/

    No need to paint and entire building. Bleah.

  84. Hindenburg? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I imagine that such an aluminum-based paint would, shall we say, violate building fire codes.

  85. Fire! by Zegnar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, what happens when the fire department run in, and their radios don't work?

    1. Re:Fire! by russint · · Score: 1

      What do you think happens? Their radios dont work, thats what happens.

      --
      ^^
  86. Spelling? by boodaman · · Score: 1

    Is it too much to ask that /. posts have correct spelling?

    Seriously, how hard is it to simply spell correctly, or if you can't, to proof your post before submitting it?

  87. Aluminum Siding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Old technology.

    Looks attractive.

    Makes a good Faraday cage.

    Oh, wait, they only sell vinyl now....

  88. so don't go wireless by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    Trust me. If you are concerned enough about security that you need to buy aluminum and copper laced paint, you should ask yourself why you went wireless in the first place. If the only answer you can find is "because it's sexy" then you should save your heavy metal paint for sniffing, and go back to wired routing.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  89. When I worked for a government spook house by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I worked for a government spook house (information gathering agency dealing with RF (radio/tv/cell,etc) and internet traffic, databases and all other forms of electronic and non-electronic communication, they kept the buildings (the walls, roof, basement) covered (actually built-in) with 3 layers of wire screen (a bit more fine than door screen), each seperated by about 1 inch of air space (and none touching the others anywhere), and the inner-most and outer-most ones grounded, and the middle one connected to a electromagnetic white noise generator (so two faraday cages with a white noise source in the middle). Cell phones, pagers, even sensative shortwave radios with the gain turned all the way up couldn't pick up half-million watt transmitters only a few miles away. As there were no windows in the building, no one could use a laser to eavesdrop (by comparing the incident laser wave against the reflected one (differential amplifier and phase locked loop), and amplifying the signal of vibrating glass on the 10th floor from 10 miles away). They took security seriously. The average business encodes data on the computer, but doesn't prevent people catching keystrokes or any internal data transfers, or screen-scraping the em radiation from someones CRT or panel, so most businesses are 'wide open for the taking'. Firecrackers (made from nitrocellulose fibre) wrapped in tin foil which is connected to a high discharge capacitor can provide for short-range em pulse bombs too.

  90. shielding paint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is nothing new...marine shops have been selling copper based paint for years. Used for hulls, etc. Better than what they're selling.

  91. Metalic Pains are in Vogue by BlakeLupa · · Score: 1

    Metalic pains are in vogue these day. Sounds like marketing ploy to boost sales to me. Yah I watch the House and Garden Network :-P

  92. Old News. by agent · · Score: 1

    This was covered before on Tech.tv, before it became a gamming network. Now the tech tv chanel is BET in my neck of the woods, or it was last time I bother to check.
    http://www.bet.com
    http://www.tvbgone.com /rants.php

    My new "toys"
    http://www.rctoys.com
    For the:
    http://www.fsf.org
    To be published on:
    http://www.hackaday.com

  93. Damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    requires you presence

    "your".

    somone in the theater

    "someone".

  94. ScreenSavers show... by feross101 · · Score: 1

    had an episode where they tested this stuff out. Everyone was paranoid of breathing the fumes... In any case, they put about 3-4 layers of the stuff on a box and one of the hosts went in with a laptop. The signal was still leaking just weaker. I wouldn't buy this stuff.

  95. OSHA Hazzard ahead! by harryhomeowner · · Score: 1

    How long do you think it will take before the sites that use this start to peal, flake paint, creating another class of OSHA harrard? Remember lead paint? I be this use will be outlawed by some states soon. Massachusetts will lead the way.

  96. "some shielding" = annoyance not security by doneWithMyTattoo · · Score: 1

    Howdy,
    The paint will dampen some of the signal. This is not secure against a war driver with a pringles can. It is, however, annoying to cell phone users in the building. Its just bad.

    Ricky