Slashdot Mirror
Wireless Security By The Gallon
prostoalex writes "The next effort to improve wireless security might involve a trip to Home Depot. Force Field Wireless sells buckets of aluminum and copped-laced paint designed to prevent the 802.11 packets from escaping the building, Information Week reports. The article also talks about the Firce Field's pitch to the government in order to improve the homeland security, but the only governments that got interested in anti-Wi-Fi paint were from the Middle East. According to the products page, they also sell the brush sets." Easier than wallpaper, or moving into an old house.
I always knew they were useful.
New cheap replacements for all those tin-foil hats. Easy application!
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
The next effort to improve wireless security might involve a trip to Home Depot. Force Field Wireless sells buckets of aluminum and copped-laced paint designed to prevent the 802.11 packets from escaping the building,
Lowe's should consider carrying that product.
Also, I hope they meant copper-laced paint, otherwise some police officers might want to speak with them. Hell, the bobbies may STILL want a word...
GTRacer
- It's lame joke day
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
As a painter with Wifi on his mind...
Busy aligning my non-linear thoughts.
I prefer wallpapering with tinfoil... leftover hat material
I'd like some metallic paint in my house just for the aesthetics. At that price, though, I guess aesthetics alone isn't a solid reason.
I knew these cans of lead paint would find a use someday!!!!!
Why stick up for big business?
At first glance I saw "Wireless Security By Gollum". I can't even begin to figure out what that might involve. The One Token Ring, perhaps?
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
So, it blocks an 802.11 signal. Wouldn't this mean that cordless phones would be blocked also. What about cell phones or old fashioned radios?
This might me more of a pain than a solution
Evolution or ID?
Paranoia. The true mother of all invention.
As this "security improvement" only affects computers in specially prepared rooms, WHY THE FUCK use wireless at all? A nice Cat5 is 10times faster than wifi, and even more tempest-proof than a metal painted room.
Not to mention that even to most fancy cable management system will be less work and cost than painting all walls+ceiling (and what about the floor if you arent in the basement?)...
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Without covering windows and guaranteeing an effective mesh cover to create a faraday cage, you cannot guarantee no transmission, only signal degradation.
You'd still be better off with grounded wire mesh and plaster in an older house if you wanted to imitate your tin foil hat.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I'm only red clearance, but the computer told me to paint the walls orange to improve security against traitors. Once painted, I'll be in violation of my code. Could the computer have made a mistake?
God spoke to me.
Paint not safe for painting on head.
Can you put an RFID tag on a product such as this? What if someone painted over the RFID/antitheft tags with this paint?
-ted
If you do fill your cavities with similar such stuff spare a thought for the cable droppers eh?
A blog I run for the wealth
I wonder what happens if you eat the paint chips? Does your body become impervious to those evil signals. No more need for the tin foil hat.
Evolution or ID?
Convincing consumers to take wireless security seriously has been harder. "They see it like tinfoil on your head," Wray says. "They think it's kind of paranoid."
Uh, it is kind of paranoid.
And it's surely no substitute for a robust encryption scheme.
Since it's commercial in nature, how many modern offices can really do without cell phones and pagers?
Oh, and 64 bucks seems ridiculously expensive for latex paint with aluminum and copper filings mixed in.
This seems like one of those "theres a sucker born every minute" products, like monster cables, or green cd films to make your cds sound better.
Then again, who needs Old Glory Robot insurance if the robots cant detect you inside your house!
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
The burning question I have (and hopefully a smarter-person-than-I can clue me in) is how is this going to affect my AM/FM/SW radio reception inside my house? It almost seems like a rooftop antenna would become a must-have, assuming that the blockage of signal would keep all those friendly informational radio waves from getting INTO my house.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
FTFA:
"It was my concept along with my colleague, Diane Lopez," says Wray, a former network engineer with Networks Associates. "We knew of people inundated with interference on their wireless systems. In fact, Diane, in her apartment, could find eight wireless networks around her. She needed to shield herself."
No, she needed to stop wasting money on broadband and mooch off her neighbors.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
metallic paint might do the "Hindenburg thing" and quickly engulf the room. Also, metal fires are hard to put out.
I'd like to see the MSDS(Material Safety Data Sheet) for those products. Adding heavy metals to non-commercial coatings can't be legal everywhere. I used to work in the retail coating industry (neighborhood paint store) and even just your standard bathroom paint is regulated heavily. So heavily it makes other EPA legislature look completely logical!
-Randy
Ahh, the benefits of conductive paint.
The article and the web site say this stuff is non-toxic. Copper is a well known biocide used in bottom paint to kill marine life that likes to live on boats. How is this any different (except for the lower price - it doesn't say "marine" on the lable).
Lead doesn't give you cancer, it slowly accumulates until it causes dementia, Alzheimers, or death.
Check out the story of Sir John Franklin, who tried to lead an expedition in Canada to find the northwest passage, back in the olden days. They found the party dead, having abandoned their ship, but they took ridiculous items with them, like an old dresser, instead of food and supplies that could have kept them alive.
The story goes they all went insane from the lead used in the canned food they were eating.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
This product will be shipped in used Pringles cartons on April 1st 2005.
What are the environmental effects of this type of paint? I would think that direct exposure to this paint (i.e. with no outer layer of nontoxic / latex) would be harmful. Boatowners use copper-based paints to keep barnacles from growing on the bottom of their hulls in saltwater. Designed to flake off over time, the paint is poisonous to sealife and highly toxic to humans. How safe can this stuff be? Do we really need more harmful metals dispersed in our environment?
Now, we should all be using encryption on our wireless networks, so I wouldn't suggest this as a mechanism for wireless security -- furthermore, I'm sure this isn't 100% effective, so any determined attacker would simply turn up his amplifier by a few dB.
That said, this could be a useful way of protecting against unintentional transmissions. Our computers are doing an awful lot of radiating, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was enough leakage to provide an effective cryptographic side-channel. Paint your walls with copper, and even if you only block out 90% of the leakage, you may well have reduced an already marginal signal enough to stop an attacker.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
Q. Does it really work?
A. Yes, to some extent. The metalic paint does effectively impede radio signals however, it is not 100% effective. Some signal may still leak through the paint also, untreated windows and doors will allow the signal to leak. None the less, signal propagation is greatly reduced by the paint, which was the primary reason for its development.
Q. What about cordless phones?
A. This paint will affect most radio signals including corless and cell phones, AM/FM radio, broadcast TV and more. The overall effect will vary depending on paint application quality, signal frequency and strength, as well as other factors.
Q. Is this paint a health risk?
A. Copper based paint, commonly used in marine applications, is a known health risk and environmental hazard. While there is little data available for aluminum based paints, there do not appear to be significant health risks at this time. This does not mean that there aren't health risks associated with aluminum based paints.
Don't you people realize that packets want to be free?
-Peter
I consult and some days I work in a beautiful office that's 90% windows. Great for wi-fi and cells, right? NNNNT! They're all coated with magic Anti Signal Coating, and (near as I can tell) the only way to get any sort of reception on any wireless equipment is to stick the thing out the window or walk outside.
- undoware.ca
There'll be some attenuation, sure, but don't forget the signal you get after going through one of these painted-on Faraday cages also depends on how strong the original signal was. Even if you put steel plates up if you blast the signal strongly enough something will get through.
Case in point: a few weeks ago I took a regular ol' D-Link 802.11b router, took its antenna off, and threw it in a steel toolbox. Closed the lid, weighed it down. I was still able to get a halfway decent signal from more than 20 feet away.
Yes, there would be some leakage around the edges of the toolbox, especially around the router's power cable. Still, I think that one of these rooms would fare worse.My buddy's house, with stucco out and plaster in, provides a very strong 802.11b-arrier. An AP in his neighbor's house (visible in a window) is only intermittently reachable from his den, standing by his own window, about 22 feet line-of-sight from the neighbor's AP.
My neighborhood, a in a new development, is full of houses made from sticks, vinyl and wallboard. I can easily reach anywhere from 6 to 10 APs from just about anywhere in my house (and only 2 are mine.)
A few years ago I had a metallic paint pen. If you burnt the paper that had markings from this pen on it, the ink would glow brightly for a brief time before going out. It was a neat effect, glowing words.
Now I'm trying to re-create this effect for a film project, and I've had no luck. I've bought out the pen section at staples, tried various metallic paint pens, and none of them do this.
The idea is to have the credits written on a piece of paper, totally unlit, so all you see is darkness. As the flame creeps across the page, the letters will glow as the flame hits them. How could I do this?
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
It's pretty hard to snoop packets on a chunk of Cat5. If the traffic is sensitive just use that. Cheaper and faster anyway.
Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
Is all the work of repainting, refitting the windows and doors with special "anti-RF" films, really easier than snaking a few hundred yards of Cat 6?
If your shit is that sensitive, you shouldn't be broadcasting it at all.
Then again, "WiFi" is required for complete buzzword compliance.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Looks like lead laced paint may just make a comeback after so many years being scorned. Dupont may have just found a way to dispose of all that "hazardous waste" they have buried somewhere! ... just dont lick the walls!
Huh?
Force Field has been trying to interest the Department of Homeland Security, but discussions are ongoing, Wray says. "Ironically, we have had foreign governments contact us--from the Middle East. Kind of scary." Wray says he won't sell to them.
But he'll sure as hell let the U.S. drop it on them. I foresee a new wave on non-lethal radar seeking missiles with latex payloads.
Got an ICBM headed at you? No problem, just spray the area of its path with a fine latex mist. These guys just put the Bush missile-defense plans back on budget!
Direct away from face when opening.
Finally I have a reason to paint over the windows to get rid of that pesky Sun.
Do you paint your windows too? If the stuff really works, you are NOT going to be able to use your lap top out in the back yard. My aluminum siding probably works just as well and affords me a little fire protection into the bargain. Besides, Home Depot makes huge donations to the republican party. fuhgiddaboudit!
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
I'd liked to get me won o' them Copped Firce Fields!
Why even go for the hat when you have lots of wall candy all around?
Offer nominal discount for trade-in of OEM antenna.
2. Sell Tim Tinfoilhat a mismatched, obsolete OEM antenna (aka High Security Antenna),
randomly chosen out of my box of trade-ins.
3. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
4. Commission study that "proves" that the H.S.A. is superior to lousy ol' metal paint.
Stick fingers in ears and say "LA LA LA LA" when contradicted.
5. Sell business to Canopy Group, but keep all patents and copyrights.
Neglect to point this out to them at the time.
Won't 802.11a signals which operate in three bands all above 5GHz still pass through this stuff normally? I know that 802.11a doesn't pass through walls well anyway, but I would hate to purchase gallons of this stuff at their prices for a false sense of security.
Not to mention also that my cell phone wouldn't work in that room either. This stuff seems to be more trouble than it's worth. Better to build real network security that to depend on physical obstructions.
Um... my house is entirely covered in relatively thick metal -- aluminum specifically. It doesn't do much with respect to my 802.11 signal getting out. I can still work in my backyard through a layer of aluminum and two walls.
A wee paint layer with some metal in it won't do diddly if my 50s aluminum siding doesn't.
This is too little protection for the people who need it (i.e. corporate/government protection), so those folks will opt for more serious protection.
This is too much protection for Joe Casual User who will pissed at bad cellphone reception, bad TV reception, bad coreless phone. Or downright ineffectiveness if they don't also paint the ceiling, floor and windows. (Note on business plan: Shit! Windows???!? What are we going to do about windows? )
Thumbs down.
--Rob
RF loves to leak. It is darn hard to retrofit a faraday cage into a normal looking room. The gap between the paint and the window film will leak. The door gaps will leak. The cable to your rooftop antenna will provide a path for leaks. The ac lines will provide a path for leaks. Don't forget about the floor.
Once you have the whole thing leak proof then as you guessed, no other wireless stuff (AM/FM/cellphone) will get through.
People pay big bucks to prevent RF leaks (ie. EMT compliance) because they are non-trivial to prevent. The pathetic thing about this is that it will give people a false sense of security. ie. It will make things worse because people won't do the other things that actually will work. My favorite solution: don't use wireless.
Setting aside the matter of whether or not low-frequency electromagnetic radiation poses a biological hazard, would this paint also serve as a shield for this electromagnetic radiation?
Isn't that copper-laced paint?
Read my blog: HansMast.com
The show "The Screen Savers" on G4 Tech TV did a demonstration with this paint. It was successful with lowering the dB gain of the signal, but did not keep the signal contained. They used 4+ coats of the paint that has metal in it on a small room that resembled an old out house.
I'd think the biggest purchasers of this paint would be stores and movie theaters... That'd be a cruel/cool trick to play on moviegoers rather than jamming the signals, just paint the walls with this paint when you remodel!
So, how safe is this stuff if your house catches fire? Previously we had some form of latex paint putting fumes into the air... now a copper laced paint tossing its fumes up? Dunno about that one.
Why not just build sheetrock with a wire mesh built into it?
Many people I know have wireless networks, but move the nodes only rarely. Wouldn't directional antennas be a good option for these people? They achieve longer ranges and/or lower power consumption, and are harder to eavesdrop on and send malicious packets to.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Didn't Screensavers pre-redesign do a bit on this?
Alex was a loose cannon, slamming advertisers. Note that the new version has no studio audience and no woo-hoo guys.
I can hang my tinfoil hat in on the hatrack while I'm inside my house now, right?
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
If you are really concerned about security, get rid of all your coax, cat5 and wireless hardware and replace it with fiber optics. That's what they use in modern facilities that have serious issues with security.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Oh geat! Now what happens in 10 years after kids start eating the peeling "aluminum and copper" paint chips?
{ - Generic Guy - }
The Defend Air people don't give any data I can find on the dB-vs-MHz effectiveness of their product, but plenty of competitive technologies do. I wish they did, because I want to line my laundry room with the stuff! The washing machine makes a terrible racket in my radio.
...and their own copper paint which is startlingly more expensive than the DefendAir product...they even have the same window film that keeps out the sun, but also makes your cell phone not work.
There's Hospital Quality shielding done with aluminum foil, and more serious shielding of both E and H fields for MRI machines. I won't even go into the RF-sealed doors...
If you're concerned about magnetic fields, then Mu Metal is the stuff. Just don't bend any of the Hydrogen-annealed variety. You can get sheet and tape in small quantifies from these folks, who by the way also offer "Personal Protection Devices (silver-impregnated fiber baseball caps, not tinfoil hats, please)
For sealing over the gaps, don't forget 3M 1181 Copper Tape, which features electrically-conducting adhesive, but only specifies 80dB isolation at 30MHz-1GHz.
But my favorite so far is Metal Foam, which reminds me of the almost weightless foamed glass Aerogel that was a announced a few years ago... Foamed aluminum is available commercially in 2x2ft sheets from from Austria, Alulight. They claim 40dB isolation in the 2Ghz range and over 100dB to 140dB in the 10Mhz-1GHz range, plus excellent sound isolation, structural, and fire safety properties. What's not to like? Anybody know where the get this stuff in the US? Reade seems out of my range, but I'll ask them.
This is astatine. Why in a technological age when we have so much control over protocols that we degrade ourselves to securing rooms by physical means. It's as retarded as wearing a tinfoil hat.
Instead of blocking 802.11b/g frequencies with wall paint (along with cell-phones, radios and key-less car remotes) can't we use what's in place? You can design a router to restrict traffic based on hardware MAC address and design your DHCP servers to assign by MAC address. Create some scripts to synchronize your routing tables and DHCP configuration file with a single database, and you have a system to secure your wireless network.
You can also use the WEP encryption, and if you're still uneasy about that with all the recent white papers that mention how to break it, make all your intranet servers with private information only accessible to the wireless subnets using secure protocols (https, imaps, pop3s, etc.)
It's simpler, uses technology versus a metaphorical metal wall and cost a ton less.
but the only governments that got interested in anti-Wi-Fi paint were from the Middle East.
This is because at least in the US (and probably in most civilized countries) buildings with sensitive information are already shielded and have been for decades. I've been in a couple of those by virtue of living in the DC area - sucks when your cell phone doesn't work.
With copper's known toxicity to organisms, this seems like a huge potential liability when it comes to safety in the home. What happens when children eat this paint chipping off the walls?
I would hope they would test this to see if it is harmful to people before selling it. Oh well, profits over safety...no wonder we have all these damn lead-tainted houses in the US still.
It is a countermeasure to "Van Ek Phreaking", the blow-'em-away demonstration of which was a cart with a monitor and $100 worth of Radio-Shack parts that displayed the pictures that were on monitors in the curtained-off "non-disclosure-only" areas at a trade show, as it was wheeled by the booths.
What is the difference between a small revolutionary change and a large evolutionary change?
If it doesn't block 100% of the signal (which it doesn't), is it really worth doing? Why not just use something like authpf to keep unauthorized people off the network? If worried about people sniffing the contents without being on, why not use a VPN to encrypt all the traffic? That seems far better than this anyway, and it'd be practically free to implement on a cheap box running OpenBSD and OpenVPN...
While the manufacturer claims the product contains no lead (that's because of lead paint laws), the concern would be the copper and aluminum itself.
/. post, write letter, send to homeowner, profit!
Asbestos was banned when fiberglass was available as an alternate solution to insulation. Fiberglass has been listed as a carcinogen in California. But I'll bet it won't be listed as a carcinogen in the rest of the US until a suitable replacement for it is found.
That's how environmental law generally works. When you have a replacement, you ban the old stuff. With lead paint, as bad as it is considered today, it was considered a premium product in its heyday. It self cleaned (sun shines on it, develops chalky surface, the lead itself, rains, washes off the chalky surface), it is far more durable than the non-lead paints that replaced it, lasts longer, and has other desirable properties. One problem: the kids eat the paint chips, or far more common, play on the floor, put their hands on the lead dust on the floor, then put their hands in their mouths. End up with a high lead level in the blood, which migrates inside the bones long term, causing brain damage as they grow up.
So lead was banned in 1960 in NYC housing and other areas, and banned federally in paint for housing in 1978. But was still allowed to be sold for 2 more years so the manufacturers wouldn't get stuck with a recall of stock on dealer shelves. What's the current situation? The lawyers are having a field day. The general procedure is, get the proof of blood test with high lead level result (mandatory blood-lead testing of children under 6 every year), attorney gets result, sends notice to property owner, notice says, notify your insurer that you received this letter of elevated blood-lead level poisoning, if insurance company is dumb enough to still be insuring you for lead coverage, immediate settlement offer, and dropping of homeowner insurance coverage (and resulting mortgage default for lack of property insurance).
Sounds like a
The manufacturer may tout the lack of lead. But copper is also a problem in the US. And aluminum should be a problem in the US, like it is a problem in Europe already. In the US (as probably many other countries), drinking water is tested not only for lead, but for copper as well. So copper entering the body is a problem. As for aluminum, it has been linked through studies on occasion to alzheimer's disease. That's why I avoid Rolaids and use Tums instead. And why I try to find (failing so far) anti-perspirants that don't contain aluminum. If copper and lead are problems, why not aluminum?
Long term, this paint is likely to be a legal problem for the manufacturer, and any homeowner who uses it. And any homeowner who buys the house later. The manufacturer can simply move his assets elsewhere, declare bankruptcy and continue business under a new name. It is the homeowner who lacks the proper financial tools, financial ability to protect against lawsuits, and the knowledge to prevent this liability problem who is going to get screwed in the end. And the kids who are on the receiving end of the paint chips and dust that eventually will deteriorate and become ingested by many innocent kids.
The instrument for surveying houses for lead paint costs about $20,000 with interest, is very expensive to maintain and keep working, and is difficult to possess under very restrictive licensing. Adding the ability to detect and survey aluminum and copper, without getting false postives on armored/metallic electrical wiring, copper pipes, and other false positives, fall within testing parameters established by governmental agencies is going to add tens of thousands to the cost. And that additional cost will be added to the survey cost to the homeowner, which is already at $250-$500 for an average 1 family house, and can run over $1,000 depending on how large the house is, and about $150-$200 per apartment when multiple apartments are done on the same day.
Okay so we all (hopefully) know the dangers of lead paint chips eaten by children. How long before some child eats aluminum or copper paint chips, kicking off massive regulatory uproar?
When I bought my home it had to be certified as having lead free paint. How many kids have to suffer with unforeseen side effects before copper/aluminum paints are certified as harzardous, seriously impacting the value of any home painted with them.
Do yourself a favor and steer clear of these products. They will likely be deemed toxic eventually.
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark."
So, what happens when the fire department run in, and their radios don't work?
Is it too much to ask that /. posts have correct spelling?
Seriously, how hard is it to simply spell correctly, or if you can't, to proof your post before submitting it?
Trust me. If you are concerned enough about security that you need to buy aluminum and copper laced paint, you should ask yourself why you went wireless in the first place. If the only answer you can find is "because it's sexy" then you should save your heavy metal paint for sniffing, and go back to wired routing.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Metalic pains are in vogue these day. Sounds like marketing ploy to boost sales to me. Yah I watch the House and Garden Network :-P
This was covered before on Tech.tv, before it became a gamming network. Now the tech tv chanel is BET in my neck of the woods, or it was last time I bother to check.m /rants.php
http://www.bet.com
http://www.tvbgone.co
My new "toys"
http://www.rctoys.com
For the:
http://www.fsf.org
To be published on:
http://www.hackaday.com
had an episode where they tested this stuff out. Everyone was paranoid of breathing the fumes... In any case, they put about 3-4 layers of the stuff on a box and one of the hosts went in with a laptop. The signal was still leaking just weaker. I wouldn't buy this stuff.
How long do you think it will take before the sites that use this start to peal, flake paint, creating another class of OSHA harrard? Remember lead paint? I be this use will be outlawed by some states soon. Massachusetts will lead the way.
Howdy,
The paint will dampen some of the signal. This is not secure against a war driver with a pringles can. It is, however, annoying to cell phone users in the building. Its just bad.
Ricky