2004 Indie Games of the Year

cyrus_zuo writes "For all those who think that the best games that came out this year were all sequels Game Tunnel presents a different angle on things with their 2004 Independent Game of the Year awards. For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2, check out the awards for a different side of gaming than you are used to."

Comments

Unneeded comment

[Albert Pussyjuice]

"For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2, check out the awards for a different side of gaming than you are used to."

cyrus_zuo, Save the comments on the article for the comments section please.

Re:Unneeded comment

[spac3manspiff]

I'm afraid to say that he is right.
Halo 2 was over hyped and let everyone down

Re:Unneeded comment

[Starji]

That was quoted from the article.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't mind it -- it holds true. People always put comments in articles. You're probably just some Halo 2 fanboy.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Albert Pussyjuice]

First of all, that's an opinion.
Second of all, the summary of the news being described should only present the facts. If the Halo 2 comment was so important, it should have been posted by the offending user as a comment. Michael should do his job and remove such drivel.

Re:Unneeded comment

[stratjakt]

Myself and everyone I know was looking forward to the online play.

And so far as I'm concerned, they delivered way more than I expected. I'm absolutely blown away by the matchmaking, I've never used anything like it online. It kicks ass, you're online playing a match against people of roughly your skill level within a minute or two of hitting the power button. The clan support is a good feature, and it's cool as hell I can go to bungie.com and see the stats and history for every match I've ever played.

Plus, I like the online maps, the match types.

I'll admit the single player mode was weak, it seemed shorter than the first, largely because they took out most of the backtracking the first title had you do. But that's not why I bought it.

I guess if you dont have live it's probably not worth it.

Re:Unneeded comment

[saltydogdesign]

For all those who think that the best games that came out this year were all sequels...

Strike this -- you can't know who this list is meant for.

Game Tunnel presents a different angle...

"Different angle" is a matter of opinion.

on things with their 2004 Independent Game of the Year awards. For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2...

Opinions have no place here.

check out the awards for a different side of gaming than you are used to.

How can the writer know what side of gaming I am used to?

Finally, my edited introduction:

Game Tunnel presents their 2004 Independent Game of the Year awards.

Wouldn't Slashdot be so much better like that? Then we wouldn't have to skim the comments of some boob nitpicking the editors for trying to produce non-cardboard prose.

Re:Unneeded comment

[jasonmicron]

It was very much needed. What has Halo 2 brought to the table that is innovative compared to the other games released this year? Rome: Total War Doom 3 Half-Life 2 etc etc Halo 2 is over-hyped dribble. Maybe worth picking up from the bargain bin in a year or so.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't Slashdot be so much better like that?

Damn straight it would. But that would mean the editors would have to actually edit.

Re:Unneeded comment

[sirket]

100% agreed.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

"Myself... was looking forward to the online play."

> Grammar Nazi

Re:Unneeded comment

[sirket]

I played Halo 1 for years and could not have been more disappointed. There are so many flaws in Halo 2 they can not be listed in one post. That said-

The boards blow. Zanzibar, Burial Mounds, Foundation, lockout, collosus, they all suck for one reason or another. Zanzibar and Burial mounds are always used for single flag CTF and assault and if the teams are _any_ good the game is always a tie.A myriad of comments can be made about the other boards as well.

WHY THE FUCK DOES RED WIN IF THERE IS A TIE AND THEY SCORE ON THEIR SECOND ATTEMPT IN A CTF OR ASSAULT GAME???????? There is NO logic behind this! None whatsoever!

The weapons- The sniper rifle is basically unstoppable now on a number of boards. If someone on ascension gets in the banshee and gets on top of the tower then they can't be killed because the other weapons are now so much weaker.

You can not switch between Halo 1 and Halo 2. Believe me I try. Between the differences in the way the weapons operate (the rocket launcher for one), the fact that you have to drop weapons twice when dual wielding you almost can not switch between the games regularly without going mad. And the feel of the sniper rifle is so disgustingly different it makes me cry to use the new one.

There are about a thousand other problems but they have been covered by so many people on bungie.net that it isn't worth repeating here.

-sirket

Re:Unneeded comment

[0racle]

What have these games listed brought to the table that is innovative compared to the other games released this year, or from the look of some of them, 10 years ago?

Re:Unneeded comment

[Mozk]

I hope you realize that that was quoted from the page...

Re:Unneeded comment

[Artifakt]

Maybe the comment was needed, but why was it needed as part of this article? I happen to think a lot of people need to be reminded as the new year approaches to make that resolution to lose 20 pounds, and to stick to it this time. I'll just throw that thought out here. It's very much needed, so no one should moderate it offtopic, or flamebait either.

True=!on topic

The independant list should be judged on its opwn merits. I don't need someone telling me that I have to like this because it stands in oppposition to Halo 2. How would you have felt if the article said, "Ignore the independent list this year, it's obvious the creators were avoiding any game that would remind you of Halo 2".

Re:Unneeded comment

[topynate]

Slashpedia!

Re:Unneeded comment

[stupidfoo]

Halo 2 is a fucking joke online. Bungie has turned into a bunch of lame jackasses. The game has pulled in over $300,000,000 now and they can hardly be bothered to give us any updates on the tons of stuff that need to be fixed. All the cheats and exploits? Don't worry about it. New levels. Don't worry about it. Red team winning when it's a tie. Don't worry about it.

Their latest posts:
12/30 - "Halo vs Half Life Comparison"
12/24 - "Gamespot Reader's Choice Awards"
12/20 - "Getting Started With Halo 2"
12/20 - "Humpday Challenge: Clan PMS "

Great guys! Thanks a bunch. Now, what's being done about all the cheating online and all the other bugs? Oh, great, I get to read about Clan PMS!

And don't get me started on the single player. What a crock. Barely any earth levels? Check. Playing as some other stupid character? Check. A fucking stupid ending? Check.

And FFS, why does bungie.net have to suck so much in Firefox?

Re:Unneeded comment

[__aafkqj3628]

Save the comments on the article for the comments section please.

Are you new here?

Re:Unneeded comment

[burbs]

Looking at the link to the http://www.mirrordot.com/ version of the artilce, cyrus_zuo didn't make that comment. The author of the article itself did.

Re:Unneeded comment

[databyss]

RTFA Much?

Re:Unneeded comment

[Rakarra]

Game Tunnel presents their 2004 Independent Game of the Year awards.

Wouldn't Slashdot be so much better like that? Then we wouldn't have to skim the comments of some boob nitpicking the editors for trying to produce non-cardboard prose.

But that's not what the introduction is supposed to be for on Slashdot. It's supposed to tittilate and engage the reader, leap out and shout "this is for you!" whether it really is or not. It's marketing.

Re:Unneeded comment

[nz17]

You know, we often hear the old hash of a joke about Slashdot readers not reading the linked articles. On one hand I can understand this, because they are often Slashdotted. However, just because they can't be read by a viewer does not mean that those said viewers should then make comments about the article site unseen.

For example, Albert Pussyjuice (675113) here gripes about "For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2, check out the awards for a different side of gaming than you are used to," being a comment by cyrus_zuo. Well, Mr. PJ, if you were to even cursorily glimpse the actual article you would seen that this is a direct quotation from the first paragraph in the linked article. Amazing, isn't is, what an ass a minor convenience has made you to be!

Then there is saltydogdesign (811417)'s comments in a sister post where he breaks down the initial paragraph of the article into pieces and lamblasts the author. Well let's read that paragraph in whole again:

"For all those who think that the best games that came out this year were all sequels prepare to open your mind. For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2, you are about to see a different piece of gaming than you are used to."

As one can see when he stops to obsorb the actual meaning of this paragraph, he can see that the author is addressing those whom believe the best games of this year were sequels such as _Halo 2_. saltydogdesign somehow takes this personally though he is obviously not the group that the opening paragraph is addressed to. The point of the linked Web site's author's writing of the column is to hopefully "wake up" those he considers "in the dark" about the other side of gaming, the small, independent studios' games rather than the large juggernaut publisher's games.

Albert Pussyjuice, saltydogdesign, and others like them would be better off if they would not attack Slashdot for posting opinions in the article summaries when they themselves don't read the article. Often the articles summaries are either partially or in whole taken from the original article anyway.

So I propose we all make a deal: when we as the Slashdot viewers start reading the featured sites' content before posting comments then we can complain about the admins duping and posting false stories and opinions because they did not RTFA themselves.

Re:Unneeded comment

[InadequateCamel]

Multiplayer fixes? The game has been out for about 45 days. Relax.

As far as your commentary on the single player, I spent far too much time listening to other people about the abruptness of the ending, and found myself expecting the game to end for about 6 straight levels. I think that you are suffering from the same problem.

Why does there NEED to be Earth levels? More specifically, why would that make or break the game? Just because you wanted the conflict to take place on Earth does not make the game bad. Why is playing as another well-developed, interesting character who functions in exactly the same manner as the Spartan, except with an AWESOME NINJA CLOAK capability with STEALTHY INSTANT KILL LASER NINJA SWORDS a bad thing? Why do you think that the ending of the game was bad? I believe that you went into this game with the expectation that it was going to be bad and were not going to be happy with anything else, and as far as I am concerned, you received the product that you deserve.

I see the game as a minor improvement on the previously fantastic game, with the IMPROVEMENTS (emphasis important here) being in character depth, weapon choice, dual wielding, opponent variety and intelligence, and vehicle use/hijacking.

If in 2 months the glitches have not been resolved then I will side with you in the multiplayer gripes. In the meantime, until you can explicitly explain to my why the single player campaign is not good I will have to chalk up your "Insightful" rating to typical fanboy bullshit.

(Please pardon the tone of my post. Listening to lazy fellow Canadians explain why they do not have to help with the tsunami aid effort gets me quite agitated)

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

Opinions have no place here.

Ha ha! Good one! Try telling that to Taco every presidential election year.

Re:Unneeded comment

[gad_zuki!]

>Wouldn't Slashdot be so much better like that?

Are you kidding. A whole bunch of people come here for the OSS kiddie 'tude. Another interpretation of the post would be "Screw MS and its popular Xbox game!"

Yeah it would be better, but it would lose readers and I doubt the editors have it in them to be even-handed about anything. They are simply advocates and dont want to change their roles.

Like I wrote, there's an allure to going someplace where the editors have the same bias you do. Same with political blogs. Same with blogs about music. Same with what newspaper/media you chose to read.

To slashdot's credit at least they fess up to their bias now and again, unlike Fox News or somesuch.

Re:Unneeded comment

[danila]

You don't realise that comments like that increase the chances for a submission to be accepted.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with your and the unneeded comments. Luckily for us we got 2 free copies from MS since we don't charge customers to play on the box. I woulda felt a little resentful if we had paid full retail for 2 copies.

Maybe I just suck but H2 seems to have this tunnel vision effect when playing multiplayer. XBL eats butt while it takes it's time finding matches (it's somewhat bearable though). I think the colors are way too bright and garish and the bump mapping makes things worse. I actually prefer the smoother rendering in Halo over H2.

Re:Unneeded comment

[NeedleSurfer]

I'll bite:

Canada has given over 53million$CAN to the cause and they are the first one to recommend to the group of Paris to not reduced but to place a moratorium on the debt of those countries so as to help further, as far as Canada is concerned it's moratorium takes effect immediately (cause we are actually limited in fund we do what we can, we don't give money we don't have (US) and try to block aid efforts done by the UN so as to take the spotlight (US), this is not a popularity contest this is the single worst display of nature's rage I've seen in my life and as usual US is using this to display its incredible arrogance and self-centered attitude, what a fuckin lame nation...).

Re:Unneeded comment

[saltydogdesign]

ut that's not what the introduction is supposed to be for on Slashdot. It's supposed to tittilate and engage the reader, leap out and shout "this is for you!" whether it really is or not. It's marketing. I know. I was being sarcastic.

Re:Unneeded comment

[saltydogdesign]

Yes, actually. I was kidding.

Re:Unneeded comment

[saltydogdesign]

I was being sarcastic.

Re:Unneeded comment

[InadequateCamel]

I believe the number is $64 million if you add up BC, Ontario and Alberta's contributions to the $40 million.
I was referring to the citizens themselves. If every adult in Canada put up $10 we would have ~$200 million in aid for those people.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Minwee]

No, it's supposed to give you something to reply to without having to go to all the bother of reading the article.

Didn't it work?

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

Christ, idiots bitch about the stupidest things here...

Don't like the article? Then move along, nothing to see.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent post. Thank you! Put the pretentious wads in their place.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Angry Black Man]

This is quickly turning into a Halo 2 discussion but...

I was surprised that Bungie didn't learn from Konami's mistake in Metal Gear Solid 2. I just don't understand why companies that manage to create really bad-ass and publically adored characters insist on making them share the spotlight with some mediocre character.

Also they still really suck at level design.

Re:Unneeded comment

[ender-]

Thank you! I thought no one was ever going to get around to pointing that out!

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

If every adult in Canada put up $10 we would have ~$200 million in aid for those people.

Big whoopie-doo. You're obviously unaware that there is no shortage of money. The currently pledged aid more than covers everything that could possibly be needed. The reason people are still dying out there is that it's difficult to take the money that has already been given and turn that into actually helping people. $200 million here or there is irrelevant, unless you were thinking you could airlift the banknotes in for people to eat or something?

Re:Unneeded comment

[Anonymous Coward]

"For example, Albert Pussyjuice (675113) here gripes about "For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2, check out the awards for a different side of gaming than you are used to," being a comment by cyrus_zuo. Well, Mr. PJ, if you were to even cursorily glimpse the actual article you would seen that this is a direct quotation from the first paragraph in the linked article. Amazing, isn't is, what an ass a minor convenience has made you to be!"

Check the posting history of cryus_zuo; it's just a mouthpiece account for Game Tunnel.

Furthermore, if the article that is linked to is being quoted in the summary, that should be noted in the summary. Something as simple as, 'the author notes....'

Re:Unneeded comment

[JonLatane]

Well, you know, Slashdot is commonly considered to be a "news aggregate." I don't know about you, but I expect these to be as objective as possible, and even if the linked article presents a biased opinion, publishing it on the aggregate site, as though it's a fact, is certainly not called for. As someone else said, it would at least be appropriate to include an "as the author says..." to separate opinions from facts.

When opinions are mixed in with facts, in such a way that they are difficult to distinguish, you become Fox News. (And yes, that does reflect my opinions.)

Re:Unneeded comment

[InadequateCamel]

No shortage of money? Before you chastise me about not being aware of the situation, perhaps you should look ahead more than a week or a month, because there WILL be a shortage of money.

Re:Unneeded comment

[IncohereD]

Well, Mr. PJ, if you were to even cursorily glimpse the actual article you would seen that this is a direct quotation from the first paragraph in the linked article. Amazing, isn't is, what an ass a minor convenience has made you to be!

I agree with your post in general, but two things:

1) Direct quotes should be in "quotation marks." Funny how those clear things right up.
2) I read most of TFA, but skipped the intro and therefore didn't see that quote. Probably true of other people as well.

Re:Unneeded comment

[JebuZ]

While I cannot say with absolute certainty, one of the URLs for the "Download Now" link, Number 5 - BreakQuest specifically, is as follows:
http://www.plimus.com/jsp/download_trial .jsp?contr actId=1641648&referrer=cyrus_zuo
Notice the referrer? Notice the article's submitter?
Maybe a thorough reading of the article is in order before being a condescending ass.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Minna Kirai]

I'm absolutely blown away by the matchmaking, I've never used anything like it online.

Sounds like what impressed you wasn't so much the game as the support apparatus that surrounds it. Matchmaking and buddy links are great, but (speaking as a software designer) they shouldn't be part of a "game".

Features like that should be in a general support app/library for any X-Box Live title to enjoy. Since Halo is a Microsoft product, those enhancements should've gone to benefit the platform as a whole.

Re:Unneeded comment

[Minna Kirai]

I just don't understand why companies that manage to create really bad-ass and publically adored characters insist on making

Not only are they not publicly adored (virtually anonymous), but "Master-Chief / Spartan" don't even qualify for the word "character". (One is a rank, the other an armor)

Of course, since Halo is a First Person game, this is normal and expected. Since you're not looking at a character through the whole game, she/he has no opportunity to make an impression on the player. To test this, list off famous video-game characters, and see if any of them come from FPS.

Re:Unneeded comment

[aichpvee]

So was the first Halo. Let's all move along and forget that they ever happened.

Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Albert Pussyjuice]

I refuse to read this article because Game Tunnel divided it up across 8 pages just to get ad views up. My stance is that I will not support a site that takes part in such underhanded techniques and makes their readers jump through such silly hoops just to read an article. I suggest you do the same.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

With Adblock they don't get jack.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[sqrt(2)]

I didn't see any ads.

And it feels so good.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Albert Pussyjuice]

Well yes, of course - that being the case, that still doesn't change the fact that a lot of unnesscary links had to be followed in order to view the entire article. Hoops that I don't want to jump through.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Draconix]

Okay, I've come up with a solution to all of the hurdles this horrid article is making you jump. Step 1: Close your browser. Step 2: Shut off your computer if the temptation is too great. Step 3: Find something better to do.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell of a lot easier than registering FOR THE NYT.

am i rite?

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[JonLatane]

I didn't see any ads either. Well, except for that "500 Internal" company. For some reason, a lot of the sites Slashdot links to have their ads. :P

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Agret]

I believe it is divided accross 8 pages beacuse it makes the pages smaller. If you have one huge ass page your web browser might not load the images in order they appear on the page so it will load ones that you don't want loaded while you trying to view ones at the top. Hope that makes sense I think I phrased that horribly :) Happy new year guys!

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Albert Pussyjuice]

No - they do it to increase ad views. Trust me - I know this to be a fact.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit!

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

i have to click an extra five times WAH WAH

i don't like companies having to find ways to stay afloat WAH WAH

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you are rite. Rite indeed.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[SirDaShadow]

The coral cache is working. By the way, add this bookmark as one of your favorites, and from now on, everytime you get an error message *AND* the URL does not change, choose the bookmark to "coralize" it (NOTE DO THIS IN ONE LINE!):

javascript: var g_url=%22%22;var split_url=document.URL.split('/');g_url=split_url[ 2]+%22.nyud.net:8090%22;for (var i=3; isplit_url.length; i++){g_url = g_url + %22/%22 + split_url[i];}g_url=%22http://%22+g_url;document.l ocation = g_url;

I have a question about firefox (and this happened while I tried to get the coral link): Why when you are looking at your bookmarks and right click on them, the next time you select the bookmarks menu it doesn't show up?

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[AndyMouse GoHard]

And... so? I mean, what do you care? Clicking on some type of "next" for subsequent pages is quite common. What's your real problem here? It's obviously not the fact they're getting ad revenue. You've got a different chip on your shoulder. Did they not choose your game?

Bill

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

The death of the internet draws near.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

> Clicking on some type of "next" for subsequent pages is quite common. What's your real problem here?

The real problem is that on the Web, you don't NEE to cut your text into "pages". The fact that it's common doesn't imply that it's a good idea.

The only real need to cut your text into pages is to add more ads into your content.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[kesuki]

Actually, I tried to duplicate the bug you mentioned, and well, it's not that the bookmark i tried to open didn't open, it just opened REALLY REALLY slowly... it took a full minute to load a /. page from the bookmarks... and 'open in tabs' on my rss feed of slashdot loaded in 15 seconds... (for all 10 tabs)
as to the 'coralized' links working, it was only working for 'page 1' of the article for me :

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[aztektum]

Don't worry, it's /.'d ... so I'd say the ppl that did go to read it did more to help your boycott than you did. :P

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[numist]

Doesnt matter anymore... the site's been slashdotted.

On that note, anyone have the article text in their history?

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you don't NEE to finish your words either, but it sure would be NIC.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[moosesocks]

Either the parent is a troll, or Game Tunnel realized they were being slashdotted into oblivion and moved the article to a single static page with no ads.

Either way, it's a single page article with no ads as I'm posting this....

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[moosesocks]

Oh God. I just spent the New Years posting a comment to slashdot.

brilliant

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[balloonhead]

Free content is subsidised by ads. If you don't like it, don't go there. All the web's content could be put on a few pages (or one) by your reckoning. Instead it is divided up into bite-sized chunks of various bite-sizes.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Kristoffer Lunden]

And my stance is I refuse to get opinions or advice on what is appropriate behaviour from anyone named "Pussyjuice". Or who uses the expression "is The Suck", for that matter.

You, sir, need to get out of the basement.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[jeffChuck]

The site's down. Looks like nobody listened to you :)

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, need to get out of the basement.

You mean I need to VNC to the servers from elsewhere? Perhaps you are right the basement is starting to smell of moldy lattés.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[ni5mo]

The whole article comes up on a single page now. Maybe they put up a low bandwidth version?

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[MadChicken]

...are you saying NEE to that old woman?

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

I refuse to get opinions or advice on what is appropriate behaviour from anyone named "Pussyjuice". Or who uses the expression "is The Suck", for that matter.

Damn right. Anyone who doesn't know that it's meant to be spelled
"i5 teh 5ucK!!!!!!"
deserves no respect whatsoever.

Re:Game Tunnel is The Suck

[Anonymous Coward]

That's easier than right click, bugnmenot?

Server dying

[kschawel]

The server is just crawling after just one comment.
I think the mirrordot mirror will work better.

Re:Server dying

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, what?

/.ed

[spac3manspiff]

google cache doesnt say anything
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:-n8FxrSA5wsJ: www.gametunnel.com/html/section-viewarticle-74.htm l+&hl=en

Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

It was great, more than I had hoped for.

I can accept trolling in comments, but the fact that this article was accepted as is makes me cringe.

Re:Halo 2

[sqrt(2)]

Maybe you're just in the minority? Many people are of the opinion that it was a huge let down.

Re:Halo 2

[Embedded2004]

I wasn't let down by halo because I knew exactly what it was going to be.

The fact that the majority of old vehicals and guns, were going to be in it, dual wheelding and having a sword were major selling points. That should of given it away. For some reason nothing about Halo 2 surprised me.

Was it still a pretty good game, yes. Was the game ground breaking, no. Should the game probably of been released as an expansion, sure.

Re:Halo 2

[NHSheep]

I enjoyed Halo 2 as well. Although the story could have used some refinement, the multiplayer was nearly exactly the same as the first - and that's not a bad thing in my opinion! In fact, a good portion of my family will sometimes play multiplayer together. (Nothing like Halo 2 to bring the family togeter!)

Re:Halo 2

[stratjakt]

Halo 2 is from microsoft, you should have noticed by now just about every submission has some weak anti-MS troll in it.

This whole "news for nerds" website is a troll.

So just troll back.

Re:Halo 2

[sardiax]

I bought the game and played it through, and i enjoyed it. but to me it honestly seems very much more like expansion pack material than sequel material. a sequel to me atleast generally implies a new engine, or atleast some drastic changes. we've got some a few new graphics, maybe one new gun and one new vehicle, dual-wielding, hi-jacking vehicles, and a whole mess of re-used content on(what appears to me to be) the halo 1 engine. that sounds more like the feature list of most good expansion packs than most good sequels. hell Blizzard has released patches with more changes.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

I like Microsoft. I like Bungie. I think Halo2 is indeed an overhyped POS that is nothing more than a $45 expansion pack. Level design is still crappy as ever, texturing is gawd-awful. Singleplayer was a yawn-inspiring exercise in tedium with AI that about as intelligent as Serious Sam.

The ONLY reason to buy Halo2 is for Multiplayer, and even that isn't so substantial to warrant the $45+ pricetag. In order to benefit from the Multiplayer aspect, you need a subscription to Live (bleh, monthly fees, FUCK THAT) or using the FREE service XBConnect with Exponential Lag Inducer (tm) Technology.

In all, Halo2 was a huge letdown for me. The fact that it is the BEST multiplayer game on XBox doesn't say much- it just shows how pitiful the selection is.

Re:Halo 2

[geekoid]

yes, cause you'
ve been gaming since the 70s, clearly anybody who disagrees with you is just rants.
I mean, you liked, so someone else couldn't honestly dislike it.

sheesh, people like you need to relize nobody cares how long you've been gaming.

The number of machines you own isn't going to sway someoelse opinion.

sadly, there was a time I couldn't write a post in gaming without mentioning how long I've been doing it.
of course, DnD'ers are the worst.

for the record, I to feel the Halo 2 was an overhyped PoS.

Re:Halo 2

[PyroPunk]

This whole "news for nerds" website is a troll.

Yes. I've always felt they should rename it "News about FOSS/Linux. Because nothing else matters."

At least then you'd know to bypass most of the stories because it's really just become an open source poke-and-jab at Microsoft at least once a day web site.

Re:Halo 2

[Rakishi]

Oh come on, don't shatter his illusions of grandeur.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

'One of the best games ever released'? Good grief, Halo 2 was a generic FPS with little to nothing in the way of innovation. It bored me silly, having no replay value as a single-player game and isn't much in the way of a multi-player success. This has buggerall to do with being anti-MS; personally, I thought Doom 3 was an utter waste of time and money too, and Half Life 2 wasn't as good as the first one.
2004 wasn't a great year for games, though both iD and Valve pushed PC hardware to its limits with their respective tech. demos. We've seen a lot of sequels, and a lot of 'me too's. Hopefully 2005 will be an improvement.

Re:Halo 2

[Bulln-Bulln]

I saw the hype surrounding Halo 1. According to those fanboys it was the greatest game of all times.
Usually I don't fall into hypes, but such a huge hype made me interested in Halo. Hey, it must be good, if every Xbox owner says it's great, right?
Well, last year I finally had the chance to play it. Gawd, I was so bored, I couldn't even believe! This crap should be the king of all games?!?
Quake 1 is way more fun than Halo 1... not to mention Half-Life 1 and both games are older than Halo.

Now Halo 2.....
Wow, the hype is even bigger. But this time I don't fall into the hype. Halo 1 was overhyped and Halo 2 is likely to be overhyped as well.
From what I've read, Halo 2 isn't really that different from Halo 1 and I also read that Halo 2 is too short.
So Halo 2 does not have many new features and is short. IMHO these are 2 aspects of a cheapo mission pack.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Keerist, you're one of those idiots who writes ARTICLE as ARTICAL, aren't you? Vehicals?? How do you pronounce that? VEE-HEE-KALS?

And let's not get me started on that whole illiterate "should of" (it's SHOULD HAVE, you redneck).

Re:Halo 2

[Synbiosis]

Heh, you should've seen what passed for a sequel in the early days of FPS's. Take Doom I and compare it to Doom II, and you'd be hard pressed to find any substantial differences. Ever play any of the commander Keen games? All pretty much the same, but there were 7 of them that qualified as sequels.

<i>a sequel to me atleast generally implies a new engine,</i>

You don't seem to have played many games, or at least paid attention to the gaming industry for very long.

The vast majority of sequels use the same engine as the previous game. FF7-9 all used the same engine. GTA, GTA:VC, and GTA:SA used the same engine. Spiderman & Spiderman 2 used the same engine. Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale, and Icewind Dale II all used the Infinity engine, and I don't think any sane person would call them expansion packs.

You don't seem to have played Halo 2 much, either. If you've actually <i>played</i> the game, you'd notice that only one weapon remained unchanged (the sniper rifle), three had their graphics redone, and the rest were completely new. There were something like 15 weapons in Halo 2, wheras there were only 5 in the original.

Re:Halo 2

[Pluvius]

You must not have been hoping for much, then. Even so, I would agree that trolling like that doesn't really belong in an article blurb, but there's one problem: This particular blurb is quoted verbatim from the article. Seeing people who won't even read the first paragraph of the article that they're discussing complain about the lack of editing at /. is hilarious.

Rob

Re:Halo 2

[sardiax]

i played doom 2 before i played doom, and commander keen i don't believe i've ever touched. but i can understand that a new engine is a little much to ask of most sequels. but hopping into halo 2 just to see all the worn out enemies and textures again was a bit annoying. as for the weapons, i think completely new is a little giving, imo a lot of the weapons(human vs. covenant) are a lot closer to each other than i'd prefer. i have played the game, i enjoyed it but i did it find it disappointing. i don't play xbox live, and found the singleplayer and overall changes to the game hardly justifying the pricetag and hype for someone who is mostly interested in singleplayer and small lan-play(usually one xbox.) i guess i have to say that i was bored and tired with the first halo, and going into halo 2 i was hoping for a rejuvination and a bit more change to the gameplay itself.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Halo, I played and beat it, was just anyother FPS. Sure it had a story but overall, not radically different than anyother FPS. Halo 2 is overhyped as well just like Fable. I sold my Xbox just because of the endless, mindless, boring games.

By the way, just for street cred, I owned a NES, SNES, Genesis, PlayStation, Atari 2600, GameCube, PS2, Gameboy, former Xbox owner, and played PC as well but not as much. Like it matters, old man.

You aren't a real gamer till you played Tron and Baby Pac-Man in the arcades.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I think Halo 2 suxx, but hey so does Halo 1. And for that matter, anything that came after Quake 2. And mind you Q2 wasn't so hot either. Q1 was cool for being real 3D, but it was still less fun than Doom. Doom is still the best! And I don't mean Doom 3...
For the record, I think both Windows and Linux suxx. Oh yeah OS/X suxx too. I'd rather use a dead OS than any of that shit. That's why I run BSD. ;)

Re:Halo 2

[ski2die]

Should the game probably of been released as an expansion, sure.

Jesus Christ, when will teenagers realize that "should've" is not a contraction for "should of"? Here is how the above sentence should have read:

Should the game have been released as an expansion pack, probably

How can you ask whether the game should have probably been released as an expansion pack, and then answer your question with sure? You meant that either it surely should've been released as an expansion pack or it probably should've been released as an expansion pack; you can't mean both simultaneously.

Sure, I'm probably retarded.

Re:Halo 2

[g0ldie]

Two of the 10 arcade games I own is Both Tron and Disc of Tron. I also own a Ms Pac Man cocktail. Me thinks I was a "real gamer" while you were but a spec in your daddy's eye. Sorry to hear that you have only owned but a few systems. Must be why you are so ill-informed. Old and loving it.

Re:Halo 2

[g0ldie]

Must be a drag to find faults in so many things. I will agree that Doom 3 was a disapointment, but to say that HL2 was not as good as the first is utter nonsense. It is by far one of the best games released on the PC in recent memory. Relax and enjoy (half) Life a bit.

Re:Halo 2

[shish]

does not have many new features

It's an FPS - you shoot things. What features does any FPS have that could be considered new?

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, another loser who thinks that a disagreeing opinion is automatically a troll....

Go read up on what the term "troll" means before you throw it around so cavalierly. You won't look like such an uninformed knob next time.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooooh! 5 points for Gryffindor!

I'm sure his head is just SPINNING from the shalacking you just gave his grammar! ski2die, you really ARE the mistar smartey pants.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

But HL2 wasn't as good as the first one. The first one was innovative for its time. It had good graphics, a good story, a lot of gameplay, and decent enemy AI.

What's new in HL2? Better graphics than HL1, sure, but compare it to alternatives. Farcry and Doom3 had better graphics than HL2. Painkiller already did the Havok physics engine in an FPS. HL2's story was shit, the game was linear, and the maps weren't terribly interesting either.

Had HL2 come out at the time of HL1, it would have blown everyone away. But now, it's just not as impressive since we're used to a higher standard.

Re:Halo 2

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been a gamer since the early 70's and own every home system ever made. I own 10 full size arcade machines, 2 pinballs, and 1 MAME conversion. I have OSX, XP and Linux PC's on my home network and owe allegiance to none of them but use the best features of each.

Well, you must lead a simply wonderful life then. What are you compensating for psychologically by having all these needless toys?

I certainly wouldn't take advice on what constitutes a quality experience, from someone so childish. I think you might need to visit a psychiatrist, or at least leave the house and your toys occassionally.

Independant

[FiReaNGeL]

If anything, it shows the power of marketing : these all appear to be good, original and fun games (except for the 3-4 rehashes of old games such as Marbles and Arkanoid), but I NEVER heard of them ANYWHERE. Which doesn't help me to buy them... which doesn't help the independant programmers of these gems... which doesn't help them to pay for marketing I guess. Vicious circle indeed.

I managed to get to the end of the list before a complete Slashdot (happened while I downloaded a top10 game... BreakQuest. Irony?). GISH, the Tarball adventure game is first, and it deserve it. Fun, VERY original gameplay and VERY challenging. Free demo available too.

Re:Independant

[Anonymous Coward]

GISH, the Tarball adventure game

I play that one everyday, hmmm is it -xvzf or wait, was that -xvjf?

Re:Independant

[age of reason]

I never heard of any of these games before and that might even be the worst thing to say about them. A lot of games that come from one of the big players aren`t any good, but whenever they realease something decent it definately will find a quite big audience. But when it comes to those independent game developers there seems to be a high chance that even if they produce a really decent game nobody will ever hear about it. That said, if you enjoy turn-based strategy games, you should give Battle of Wesnoth a try - it`s free and open source: http://wesnoth.org/

Re:Independant

[stratjakt]

Why doesnt the games section in slashdot cover this kind of stuff?

All it discusses are Doom 3, Half Life 2, Halo 2, and the odd update to WineX that lets yet another big commercial Windows title run under linux.

I guess I don't understand what motivates /. in general. They have a lot of eyes watching, but don't really use that to the general advantage of OSS.

To me, new and good indie games, or hell - any good game I've never heard of is true "news for nerds". SCO v IBM is "news for IP lawyers".

Re:Independant

[Anonymous Coward]

Some /.ers would then claim that it's free advertising for greedy small developers and we should only promote FOSS games.

I wouldn't mind though. Connecting to a big audience is most of the problem for the indie who has done something genuinely new.

Re:Independant

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually had heard of Gish, sorta through advertising. They listed themselves in the Mac OSX Games downloads area and popped up on their hot downloads awhile ago. Not much advertising, but about as much as the Motion 30 day trial got, and from Apple's own website...

Meh, just rambling.

But yeah, it definitely deserves more. But a slashdotting's just mean...

Re:Independant

[JadedLogik]

That breakquest game is great...I downloaded it and ended up picking up the full version. Though it may not be for every one. popcap.com has some decent little goof off games too...zuma there is pretty fun. Not my cup of tea most days (games like zuma and breakquest that is) but they're nice when I'm sick of or don't have the time to play UT or HL2.

Re:Independant

[Lord_Dweomer]

"They have a lot of eyes watching, but don't really use that to the general advantage of OSS."

What makes you think that is the purpose of Slashdot. I don't remember it saying anywhere that it will only do things to the general advantage of OSS.

Slashdot is News for Nerds, and there are MANY types of nerds out there. Including legal nerds, and Windows loving nerds.

I myself skip past all the linux stories on here. Why? Because as someone who's primary use of computers is gaming, Linux is not that much of a concern to me.

And it is not fair to say that they don't cover indie games, because I can think of quite a few new games that I've heard of on Slashdot that are indie that I wouldn't have otherwise.

My Favorite is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Return of Slashdot IV: Death of a Server

Only got to the first page but...

[Crispin Glover]

The article states that mainstream can't release anything new or original. So what are number 10 and 9 on the list? ... a puzzle game (ala Bejeweled) and a RTS game. After that I didn't have the patience to wait for the rest of the article to load.

Way to go gametunnel. Berzerk anyone?

Re:Only got to the first page but...

[zarthrag]

I think you need to look at some more pages before rendering your decision. There are no games out there like GISH on the shelf at Walmart or Fry's - there may never be.

Re:Sadly, website is down.

[spac3manspiff]

Thanks!
I wonder why Solar Empire didnt make the list :/

Re:Sadly, website is down.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you go choke on a cup of stfu.

Nethack is indie game of the year, every year.

[krog]

Although I think the latest rev, 3.4.2, came out last year, nethack gets my vote for this year (and every year, while we're at it).

It's also the only game which runs perfectly on my blessed greased +2 iBook.

Re:Nethack is indie game of the year, every year.

[owenb]

3.4.3, actually. But yes, game of the year, every time. I've been playing it ~10 years; something I can't imagine about many other games

Re:Nethack is indie game of the year, every year.

[TykeClone]

Try angband http://www.phial.com/angband/

Re:Nethack is indie game of the year, every year.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nethack is a bit on the silly side though. Silly +10 even. It's almost more of a collection of easter eggs than a RPG.
For real though, what's a good roguelike game for the jaded non-silly people?
Preferably one that runs in any Unix, not just Linux. So I don't have to run an emulator...
For the record, I already have Rogue and love it to death. Anything else similar to that? Not too complicated but with lots of replay value.

Re:Nethack is indie game of the year, every year.

[Sigma 7]

Try angband http://www.phial.com/angband/Please don't link to that page, it's well out of date by several years.

Instead, link to http://www.thangorodrim.net/.

Re:Nethack is indie game of the year, every year.

[TykeClone]

ARGH! - Sorry about that - I knew that, but did a lazy search to get that link.

Re:Nethack is indie game of the year, every year.

[Dr. GeneMachine]

May I suggest ToME?

What a crap choice

[Nine Tenths of The W]

For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2,

It was obviously the $40m tech demo called Half Life 2

Re:What a crap choice

[Anonymous Coward]

Not Doom3?

Re:What a crap choice

[Anonymous Coward]

D3 is a flashlight simulator, while HL2 is a full tech demo.

Halo 2 is a "retro remake" of the first Halo :)

Halo 2 Rules

[Agret]

Halo 2 had more hype than any other game there was no way it would live up to the hype so I just ignored all the hype. The game was brilliant, heaps better than the first one. There was almost vehicles in every level. There were a few too many ghosts but that was a good thing I got to hijack lots of people. It is playable online with a ping of 300 to a US server and it also has awesome LAN play. I don't see how that could let anyone down!

Re:Halo 2 Rules

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, what?

Re:Halo 2 Rules

[Anonymous Coward]

What's an "almost vehicle" ?

Re:Halo 2 Rules

[Anonymous Coward]

LAN play is reaching the point where the many bugs and glitches are ruining the game, however.

Dummying is rampant (a glitch allowing people to achieve permanent invisibility in multiplayer), there are wall-glitches all over, gliding hacks, router hacks, etc.

These ignore the many other glitches which don't really affect gameplay like rocketlunging.

Unless Bungie puts a patch out (and they apparently aren't planning to), expect Halo 2 to become as fun to play online as most PC games where 99% of people have aim-bots and wall-hacks.

Re:Halo 2 Rules

[Anonymous Coward]

The game was brilliant, heaps better than the first one. There was almost vehicles in every level.

You must be the reason they made the movie "Torque".

Re:Halo 2 Rules

[prockcore]

There was almost vehicles in every level.

Maybe you should get Burnout 3.. it has vehicles in every level!

get off it

[mikeg22]

For those who believe that the best game this year was that badly named expansion pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2...

Oh for god's sake. Halo 2 had revamped graphics, sound, a completely new single player campaign and XBOX Live support. What is your definition of a sequel anyways?

Re:get off it

[Anonymous Coward]

Halo 2 is from teh EVIL Micro$oft who want to rule the w0rld and so it is EVIL and NOT A GAME.

Re:get off it

[VividU]

You must understand, Halo and Halo2 have acheived a sort of symbolic status here on Slashdot as the game offends both camps of "M$" hater:

First, the Linuxites who can't stand the fact that the Xbox is both cool and a great success (reread early Xbox posts). You see, to them, Microsoft can't do anything right, and so therefore, those who think the Xbox is a good console and Halo a good game are "overhyped" or not true gamers. This despite the fact that both Halo and Halo2 have achieved Game of the Year awards.

Second you have the Mac people. Halo was supposed to be their own. Bungie was their for them and them only. The very idea that MS bought Bungie and released Halo for the Xbox only..well..it's just too much to take.

Re:get off it

[DownloadTHIS]

Not all Linux users hate the Xbox and Halo 2. I am running Mandrake Linux on the computer that I am posting this from. To my left I have my Xbox sitting on my TV cart. Conflict of intrest? No. The Xbox is the first thing Microsoft has done right in several years. If they see sales numbers coming from the Xbox and not the trash they make like Windows, this will send an important message about product quality.

Re:get off it

[Anonymous Coward]

Second you have the Mac people. Halo was supposed to be their own. Bungie was their for them and them only. The very idea that MS bought Bungie and released Halo for the Xbox only..well..it's just too much to take.

You're one drunken troll.

Re:get off it

[Accipitradea]

Second you have the Mac people. Halo was supposed to be their own. Bungie was their for them and them only. The very idea that MS bought Bungie and released Halo for the Xbox only..well..it's just too much to take.

You're one drunken troll.

No, really, he's right.

Re:get off it

[Lisandro]

Oh, come on, let's be fair for a second: Halo & Halo 2 are very well done, fun games, but they're basically regular FPSs (granted; on consoles, where usually FPSs don't work that well). There're a ton of MUCH better games in the genre, for consoles and other platforms, notably the PC.

The hype surrounding them is, IMHO, due to the fact that for a lot of "newbie" gamers is their first approach to a modern FPS, even when it's lacking on some areas. For newcomers is very easy to pick up, and stays fun because it's hard to master (much like Counter Strike). But let's not kid ourselves, they're not the holy grial of gaming.

Re:get off it

[miu]

Guess I'm a type 3 Halo-hater. I dislike Halo because it is a shitty game and the constant gushing about how wonderful it is irritates me. I got suckered the once, but I'll probably never bother to waste money on a console FPS again.

Re:get off it

[Xzzy]

> Halo & Halo 2 are very well done, fun games, but they're basically regular FPSs

No, they are the pinnacle of refinement in the "old school" style of FPS. Gripes about the single player story are probably valid in a lot of cases, but the multiplayer feels just like playing Doom back in the day, except it's matured in the same way you'd expect aged wine to.

Having been a gamer on both PC and consoles for almost 20 years now I'm not a "newbie" gamer in any sense of the word, and the implication that the only way to enjoy Halo is because it's "easy to pick up" is pure rubbish.

The cautiously balanced weapons and solid feel of the environment is the state of the art, it takes all the classic elements of FPS that causes us to recall Doom or Marathon with fondness and sharpens them to a glistening point. Halo gave it to us on a LAN, Halo2 brought it online.

Re:get off it

[Anonymous Coward]

[I]Halo 2 had revamped graphics, sound, a completely new single player campaign and XBOX Live support[/I]

Hello, gameplay?

Re:get off it

[/dev/trash]

What OS do you run? Solaris? VMS?

Re:get off it

[miu]

e) all of the above

I don't care much for OS religious wars - at the moment I use Mac OSX, linux, freebsd, solaris, window XP and have all the current game consoles. My hatred for Halo is pure and undiluted by dislike for MS as a company :)

Re:get off it

[randallpowell]

You do know that people won't always share your opinions, right? I played and beat Halo and found the story to be good but I also found it to be just another FPS with some vehicles and only 2 weapons at once. Big deal! Graphics don't make the game, it's gameplay that makes a game.

Re:get off it

[Anonymous Coward]

news flash for you: those characters are imaginary.

Re:get off it

[AbRASiON]

Sorry, I love my Xbox, Microsoft got something very right finally.

But halo 1 and 2 are both COMPLETELY over-rated games, they are not BAD games but _EXTREMELY_ over-rated to the point of annoyance..

Re:get off it

[AbRASiON]

I've been FPS'ing since Wolf 3D, gaming since god knows what in my A2600 or C64 and Halo 1 and 2 ARE regular old FPS's ,... over-hyped.

Re:get off it

[Lisandro]

If you are an ex-PC gamer, you probably know that Halo (1 & 2) are subpar when put against a lot of games on it. Multiplayer? UT2K4. Single player? Half Life. Both? Painkiller.

Again, Halo IS fun, and IS well made, but's nowhere close of being the ultimate FPS experience some claim it to be.

Re:get off it

[TRACK-YOUR-POSITION]

Xbox is both cool and a great success

Hey, I'm sure its a great, fun console, but doesn't something have to turn a profit to be called a success? Unless it's an exercise in predatory pricing...

Re:get off it

[Anonymous Coward]

so why was it impossible to find PS2's this christmas yet everyone had piles of X boxes sitting there collecting dust in the stores????

ps2 has been around much longer and people STILL buy them like mad.

get a life MS marketing drone. X box is 3rd banana in a 3 person race.

Re:get off it

[Sigma 7]

If you are an ex-PC gamer, you probably know that Halo (1 & 2) are subpar when put against a lot of games on it. Multiplayer? UT2K4. Single player? Half Life. Both? Painkiller.

The first two games are acceptable recommendations since they are more specialized - however, you should note that one of the two games was only available after Halo 1 and couldn't be played.

Painkiller, on the other hand, isn't strictly a good replacement game for singleplayer, mainly because it uses a different subclass of an FPS where a large quantity of monsters swarm the character, while Halo's enemies try to out-smart the character. These are two different games that require to different sets of tactics to complete.

Can't comment on the multiplayer aspect, but Halo 2 seems to have placed a lot of focus on the game browser - it doesn't make the game play better, but it solves the bottleneck where intermediate players get lumped with ultra-elite advanced players.

Re:get off it

[Accipitradea]

But they are an expression of how a vast number of Mac fan feels about this particular issue. That's why PA appeals to so many of us, they address the issues we're concerned about. I know I'm still upset about Microsoft's aquisition of Bungie. I dealt with it by buying an Xbox.

Re:get off it

[Anonymous Coward]

Because PS2 (and PSX) consoles break like "mad".

Mirrdot fails to mirror more than 1 page

[Agret]

Mirrodor only mirrors the first page of the site and it didn't mirror the images so I can only find out about 2 of the games. I of the enemy looks pretty cool. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/ioftheenemy/sc reenindex.html Mirrordot needs to mirror more of the page in future.

Re:Mirrdot fails to mirror more than 1 page

[eeg3]

Mirrodor only mirrors the first page of the site and it didn't mirror the images so I can only find out about 2 of the games.

Well, typically, people from slashdot rarely even read the article after clicking it. So, I doubt they click through all the pages. Therefore, mirrordot is probably pretty useful for the majority of the load slashdot pushes onto a web site.

What's the exact definition of indy?

[Nine Tenths of The W]

Self published? Made by a non public company? Made by part time developers? Published by a company with revenue of less than x per year? No advance/royalties only? Budget of less than y?

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, what?

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[ggambett]

We usually mean "self-funded", in essence. This more or less captures the "indie" spirit in that publishers don't control you or impose creative limitations, which is what most people complain about the retail industry.

This definition is somewhat problematic, because you don't usually think of Id Software as an indie developer, although it is, according to this definition. For most indies the definition is accurate though.

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[ChipMonk]

How about "no titles sold at Wal-Mart"?

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[stratjakt]

Id doesn't self-publish, or publish outside the usual channels. They just hand a finished copy to Activision.

I'd say self-publishing is the most identifying feature of indie media.

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, obviously the definition is "known only by people who think they're elite for knowing about them".

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[ggambett]

I think it's more of a financing thing, and exactly what you consider a publisher. Most of us small indies sell from our own sites but also from the big portals (Big Fish, MSN Game Zone, Yahoo, Real Arcade, Shockwave,...). Some indies consider that to be "selling out" (we don't).

Other indies do the same as Id, finish their game and submit it to a publisher. I don't think you cease to be an indie because of that. If the publisher gets the game after it's finished, it doesn't finance its development, and has no creative input on it, you are independent from it in that sense.

But I agree, it's quite probable that there's no universally agreeable definition of "indie".

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[age of reason]

Well, Indy is the nickname for the fictional character Indiana Jones. ;-)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Jones)

Besides that, he term indie is short for "independent" and refers to artistic creations outside the commercial mainstream, without the support of a major record label, major movie studio, or other source of a large budget. For example,

* independent film
* indie rock
* indie radio
* indie label

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie)

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[kesuki]

Up until Activision bought the rights, id was indy.
Basically, id didn't want to become some huge publisher, which they woulda had to to 'put up' all the damn 'copy protection racket' fees... of course they coulda just pressed unprotected discs or something like people used to in the days before cd-burners were $10 at the local wal-mart*... but then anyone who wanted to could copy it for all their friends, and frankly a lot of people would do that. let's see.. $50 at the store, or $0.01 for a blank CD and burn it off a friend...

*= Okay, maybe not at wal-mart, but froogle has a few obviously cd-r drives have come way down in price... and with dvd-burners becoming even cheaper a lot of places are liquidating old inventory of cd-burners, because they expect for retail demand to dwindle to 'new computer' and 'replacement part' sales...

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Made in India.

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[PoopJuggler]

You call him Docta Jone!

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[damiam]

but then anyone who wanted to could copy it for all their friends

And they can't now? All it takes is one person to crack the copy-protection, and then the pirated version becomes superior to what's being sold at retail.

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[sacredchao]

I've mentioned this game before, but I'm going to do it again. There's a racing sim called "Live for Speed" that was released as its first retail iteration a bit over a year ago.

This is about as indie as it gets. Three guys have been working on this for some time and have produced a seriously top shelf product. They decided not to go with physical distribution; you download the game and purchase a registration key for a very reasonable GBP12. They've been approached by a number of publishing houses with offers of finance/distribution which they've turned down in order to retain total control over content. This allows them to listen to the incredibly enthusiastic online community that has sprung up around this game and incorporate feedback quickly and effectively.

They're just about to release the next installation of this game and that same community (including myself) has been waiting with bated breath, wiping the dribble from their collective chin for the past few months.

Go download the demo. If you like driving sims, you'll more than likely shell out for the full version with a huge grin and join the rest of us in waiting for the next edition. Note that I have no personal interest in this game other than the fact that I play it regularly and thoroughly enjoy it.

In short,a small group that codes for the love of it, no corporate support, wide reaching, low cost distribution model...that's indie.

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[Zork the Almighty]

The irony is killing me.

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[Anonymous Coward]

indie = independent.
an indie artist or studio makes the top level decisions about their art/product. britney spears may not be able to say the word "ass" or refer to the french as good in one of her songs because it's not her decision to make. an indie artist has no such restrictions.

Re:What's the exact definition of indy?

[kesuki]

when you have to DL the file over the internet, it becomes much harder, and actually some people are deathly afraid of being caught. The point is EASE of access... if there is no protection, then every john dick and harry out there can make copies for friends, noone has to 'do anything risky' like download a torrent file...

GISH

[mikeg22]

I agree, GISH is an excellent game, but its a sidescroller, not a traditional adventure game. I love both genres and hope they make a comeback, possibly with the help of these independent developers.

Re:Gish

[cliffski]

Most people would agree, but HL2 only last what? a few weeks casual play? What do you do then? whait another 15 years for HL3?
These games arent hyped, they are released NOW and they have demos (unlike Hl2) which you can try before you buy.
Not all indie games are excellent, but some are. I'd rather play Lux than Halo 2 any day. These are games done by 1 or 2 people on a small budget, just like the original civilisation. is that a bad game?
Don't fall into the trap of assuming a game isnt good becuase its not in gamespys top 10, I work at a AAA studio in the Uk and run my own indie games as a side business, and I can tell you that the games that feature on magazine covers and web site front pages are the games with million dollar marketing budgets, being a good game doesnt figure at all in such choices.
Look outside the mainstream on gametunnel and diygames.com and see what games are out that you DON't hear about. (just filter out the arkanoid cloes).

Re:Gish

[kd5ujz]

The ill-informed should not bitch. HalfLife 2 Demo

Re:Gish

[cliffski]

released when? because im pretty sure that wasn't available until well after the game was released. or am i wrong there?

indie game demos can also be downloaded in 10 mins, rather than 5 hours.

Re:Gish

[kd5ujz]

I know for a fact it was out before your post.

Whoa! Is it another of Roland's sites?

[Shturmovik]

Surprising that Michael Sims posted this "story". Oh no, wait, it's not surprising at all...

Meh

[SilentChris]

Some of us like big-budget games made by major studios (*cough* World of Warcraft *cough*) because the artwork, sense of "success" and even gameplay is plain old better. Same reason why we flock to New Line's version of Lord of the Rings instead of watching the old hobbit cartoon -- it's just higher quality.

Re:Meh

[Agret]

Net hack too good for your WoW? Back in my dad we dont have no monthly fee's dang nammit!

Re:Meh

[Albert Pussyjuice]

Quite right - your dad provides me with all the roleplaying, dungeon clearing, and cybersex I can handle without any monthly fee.

Re:Meh

[ggambett]

I'd say gameplay is different, not better per se. Indies usually target casual gamers, as opposed to hardcore gamers, so the gameplay must be different. A hardcore gamer can spend hours at a time playing a RPG with lots of text to read, but the stereotypical soccer mom just wants a quick 5 minute game. You can't expect a similar level of "commitment" from such different demographics.

Re:Meh

[SilentChris]

Well, actually, no. A very large number of MMORPG players are "soccer moms". Almost half of Everquest players are women.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, yeah. My 15 year old daughter is using the word "meh" now, so I think it's nearing the end of it's usefulness. Also, you need to address that nasty cold you have - you're actually coughing in text.

Re:Meh

[Mornelithe]

I don't think you understand the definition of "soccer mom". It's not synonymous with "woman".

Do you really mean that a "very large number of MMORPG players" are middle-aged, trendy, suburban mothers?

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I think indies have more to gain from being unusual. Catering to the casual market certainly isn't going to get your games on Slashdot. ;)

Re:Meh

[Lisandro]

That's relative. If Gish were published by, say, Nintendo, gamers of the world and gaming magazines would be singing it's praises like there's no tomorrow.

In fact, lately "big" publishers have been focusing in games with a lot of glitter but boring gameplay (90% of modern FPSs go there). Indie games may lack polish, but most (all?) of the games in that list are downright fun to play. That's what counts for me.

Re:Meh

[SilentChris]

The definition of most EQ players I've heard is suburban mothers, yes. All those stories about EverCrack breaking up marriages?

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I like The Hobbit more than LOTR. Even the books. So there! ;)

Re:Meh

[danila]

Well, I can certainly appreciate your sentiment, but. There is always a bit of a but. 2 out of 4 AAA FPS games released in 2004 were based on well-known brands and had huge marketing forces behind them - Doom 3 and Half-Life 2. No wonder that those games were hyped by all sites for several years, got a lot of 9.5/10 and 10/10 in the first reviews immediately after release and sold like hot cakes.

Meanwhile two other AAA FPS games - Far Cry and Chronicles of Riddick were not heavily hyped, didn't get so many reviews and weren't very popular among the public. Lack of promotion is their only problem. Arguably both of these games were more innovative and had better stories than at least HL2, but THE BIG BRAND means that popular sells. There are many excellent games made all the time, which sell very poorly (consider the previous Prince of Persia) because of lack of promotion, despite having better artwork, better gameplay and better sense of "success" whatever that means.

If you decide to play only mainstream most hyped titles, you limit yourself very much. Often their less known competitors are just better.

Re:Meh

[ergo98]

If Gish were published by, say, Nintendo, gamers of the world and gaming magazines would be singing it's praises like there's no tomorrow.

This is taking it a little bit too far. I downloaded, installed and played some GISH, and my wife played a bit of it as well. While it has some neat gameplay, and the graphics are half decent (what's the deal with the sound though? Is it off by default? Neither my laptop or desktop had any sound from the game), it grew tiring extremely quickly - I have little motivation to continue in it, and after 43 minutes of the 90 minutes I'm pretty much done with it, as is my wife (who normally loves that style of game).

These guys and/or gals have done a tremendous job with few resources, but I think the opposite of what you're saying is true -- if this were published by a big company you wouldn't have given it a second look. As it is you overlook deficiencies because it's the little guy against the man.

Re:Meh

[ergo98]

Whoops, I was actually talking about Wik in that post. Still haven't tried Gish.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mom is a filthy, dirty, cum-dribbling slut. And you're an ass nigger.

Wait a minute...!

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the games I was a developer on made this top 10 list. Just by that I can tell you... This must be a complete load of crap! ;P

/.ed

[Cyblob]

Looks like the server has been /.ed already. And if anybody is going to be called a "Halo 2 fanboy", it should be me.

craziness

[Slothy]

Although sequels certainly abound, anyone who complains that the major publishers produce nothing original obviously never played Katamari Damacy. It's probably much more original than any of the indy games this year.

Re:craziness

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only as original as Tumiki Fighters from ABA Games(that one japanese guy that does all the shooters in D with "BulletML.")

Re:craziness

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but think of all the millions of labor hours and billions of dollars that went into making games this year--and that's the only spark of creativity that we can come up with?

Then again, Gish was the only actually decent game on this top ten list.

Re:craziness

[Slothy]

Publishers produce whatever sells. Halo 2 has done just a staggering amount of sales, whether people here like the game or not.

Re:craziness

[Anonymous Coward]

Publishers produce whatever sells. Halo 2 has done just a staggering amount of sales, whether people here like the game or not.

This is true, but has no relation either to your comment or mine, both of which dealt with originality. Halo 2 is a great game, but not particularly original. I can't help but think that the current industry trend away from originality is SUPPLY, not DEMAND driven--production has become more expensive, developers have become more risk-averse.

Re:My Mom was a fucking whore

[Anonymous Coward]

what the hell?? finish the fucking story!!!

Re:Sadly, website is down.

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent post has been mistakenly modded "informative."

It might be informative - if it were true - but a quick Google search for the three game titles it references reveals that none of them actually exist.

The page at mirrordot shows that the games actually referenced in the article have their own web sites. So if the games listed by "Sheetrock" really existed, Google should know about at least one of them.

We can only speculate as to why "Sheetrock" would post this type of disinformation.

HOW CAN THIS BE MODDED INFORMATIVE?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent down!

Translation

[age of reason]

For all those who think that the best games
that came out this year were all sequels Game
Tunnel presents a different angle on things
with their 2004 Independent Game of the Year
awards. For those who believe that the best
game this year was that badly named expansion
pack that they have the nerve to call Halo 2,
check out the awards for a different side of
gaming than you are used to.

Translation:

Please visit my site, it is only 8 pages full of pictures and I think I can survive a slashdotting.

Say what?

[MXK]

"Internal Server Error" ???
I never heard of that game...

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny; I wind up playing it every time I read Slashdot.

You are retarded.

[Anonymous Coward]

To imply that WoW has better gameplay is retarded. It is still the same old MUD from 20 years ago, EQ put 3d graphics on it, and now Universal has polished the turd and called it WoW. Polished turds still stink.

I find this funny..

[Anonymous Coward]

Any website that would give a shitty game like halo 2 an award deserves to be slashdotted heh

Priceless!

[age of reason]

Buying HALO 2: 45 bucks.

Submitting a self promotional story to slashdot and seeing your servers catching fire: priceless!

Server Eror.

[pieisgood]

Good job, your site can't handle the traffic!!!

What you don't seem to understand about Halo 2...

[Anonymous Coward]

Halo 2 wasn't the best game of the year because it was Halo TWO, it was the best game of the year because it was Halo: Xbox Live Edition. I sure as hell didn't buy it for the rest of the storyline, I bought it so I could frag my friends across town, and all of them did the same.

Screw the storyline, Bungie succeeded knew where the money was - Xbox Live. They've obviously spent so much time on the multiplayer component - the interface, levels, differet modes of play, etc., that they probably had the camapign done two years ago and were working on the multiplayer asepcts all that time. Screw the campaign; you didn't buy CS to play it alone, did you?

My suggestion is Darkspace.

[Martin Spamer]

Darkspace by PaleStar / Richard "Faustus" Lyle.

Darkspace is Space Combat MMOG, not a mining simulation like Eve; imagine multi-player elite on steroids. PvP combat in a large scale persistent Meta-Verse of about 40 Star systems of 10-30 planets with 3 factions, 2 human and 1 alien.

Each faction has about 30 unique ships. You can fly combat ships from small fast stealthy long range scouts, frigate, destroyers, cruisers, dreadnaught and even space stations, each ship has uniques capabilities. There are also support ships such as engineers to build planets, supply ships to repair friendly forces and transports to trade resources, carry troops or ships mods.

You form fleets, or join an established fleet, or fight as a lone wolf. You can put down rebellions, capture planets & moons, bomb them, mine them, build them up with a wide range of structures as mining colonies, military training camps for troops, factory planets for ships mods, or front line supply depots using various structures including habitation, factories, powers planets, repair depots, barracks, defensive installations, supply depots and factories, even shipyards.

You can modify your ships extensively, upgrade your engines for more power and speed, switch between long range/stand-off weapons like fighers and missiles, or get close up and personal with cannon and torpedoes. You can sneak up to enemy ships, and paint them for your big guns, board and capture them with elite troops, or simply spy scout them out. As you go gain prestige, rank, earning honors alone the way, giving you a progress increase in choice.

I've been playing Darkspace for 2 years, I'm ranked in the top 30 players out of 6000 regulars and it still holds a challenge. IMHO its up there amoungt the best games of all time.

You dont even have to believe me, you can download the game client for free (windows only) and receive a weeks free trial.

Re:My suggestion is Darkspace.

[sqrt(2)]

Looked like a really cool game, something I would have like. I was even entertaining the idea of purchasing it until I read FAQ question #4.

Q: How much is a monthly subscription?
A: Subscriptions are $9.99 a month U.S.

Re:My suggestion is Darkspace.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow 10 whole dollars a month! That's like over 30 cents a day! My god, how could anyone afford such an extravagance? Paying for a good or a service, what an insane concept!

Re:My suggestion is Darkspace.

[sqrt(2)]

It's not the money, I just don't agree with the subscription based business model for software..

Re:My suggestion is Darkspace.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems to make sense to me. They're providing a service, maintaining a game, code, servers, etc. Service over time requires payment over time; anything else is a disincentive to provide peak service.

Re:My suggestion is Darkspace.

[spoonyfork]

Thanks for the posting. I really liked the Homeworld games and Darkspace seems like a more open-ended flavor of that.

Re:My suggestion is Darkspace.

[Anonymous Coward]

Monthly fees add up - and they require a constant cash flow on the part of the user that tends towards maintaining wage slavery and exploitation of workers.

Why not design a game like this and sell the game and the source code for a one-time fee? Then people could make their own servers and update the game themselves?

The answer: because the makers are more interested in making money than doing something worthwhile.

This attitude amounts to a pandemic illness that is destroying our planet.

Re:My suggestion is Darkspace.

[Anonymous Coward]

> You dont even have to believe me, you can download the game client for free (windows only) and receive a weeks free trial.

yes, I can believe that, but this leaves us with one problem: windows only. So, my suggestion concerning imagining a multi-player Elite on steroids is Vendetta (http://www.vendetta-online.com/ which is a lot of the above description, and as a bonus, is a multiplatform game, so no need for dual booting or any kind of windows installation. Yay!

I dont know about you...

[mboverload]

...but I'm STILL waiting for a game better than Total Annihilation.

Re:I dont know about you...

[TaGirl_Keri]

There will NEVER be a game better than TA. I doubt even TA2 (Supreme Commander) will have the gameplay and fan loyalty of TA. Even if CT is behind it

Only on Slashdot...

[Anonymous Coward]

"GISH, the Tarball adventure game is first, and it deserve it. Fun, VERY original gameplay and VERY challenging. "

This guy.... downloads a tarball, compiles & beats the game in like, 30 minutes. For the icing on the cake - you get a review. Talk about /hardcore/.

TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[MBCook]

This is a troll. Those are NOT the top three games. Those are NOT EVEN ON THE LIST. The site seems to be working now, but here is the REAL LIST anyways:

10. I of the Enemy
9. Revolved
8. Smugglers 3
7. Global Defense Network
6. Anito: Defend a Land Endangered
5. BreakQuest
4. Outpost Kaloki
3. Hamsterball
2. Wik & The Fable of Souls
1. Gish (by the fantastic Chronic Logic)

That's the REAL list. Gish is the only one I've heard of, though some of those look interesting (and many have GREAT graphics). The one game I wish was on there is N by metanet software. I was addicted to that game for weeks. Very cool little game - "play as a ninja trapped in a world of well-meaning, inadvertantly homicidal robots. " Give it a try!

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[MBCook]

Sorry. Meant to give a link to "N". You can find it here. I don't know how they came up with it, but it's just so much fun (and the graphics are very simple in a clean and elegant kind of way).

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[LakeSolon]

Why is it I never had mod points when I actually want them? Please Mod Parent up, I'm now addicted to "N".

~Lake

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[Kymermosst]

This is a troll. Those are NOT the top three games.

Just goes to show one man's (-1, Troll) is another man's (+1, Funny).

Personally I was in the latter category.

I've never heard of any of these games, though :(.

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I found the grandparent funny - I don't think it deserves a 0, Troll.

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[qoa]

I like this game a lot, but the one downside is that since it's flash, it doesn't work with a control pad. At least it didn't when I tried it. Great game though.

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

The game doesnt look too bad, but would be infinately better if I could read their "i want to look cool so I use 6pt fonts". Do they not realise that we gave up 800x600 about 6 years ago? even squinting a few inches from my monitor I can barely read it at my native res (1600x1200), I had to change res to 1024x768 just to play it, and even then I had to sit closer to the monitor than i enjoy for gaming.

If you wont scale, atleast offer a fullscreen/res changing mode.

(replying to the last post in this thread because its the first reply to post link I saw, I dont mean to complain to the parent so much as the game devels that probably arnt even reading this)

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[cryptess]

I like this game a lot, but the one downside is that since it's flash, it doesn't work with a control pad. At least it didn't when I tried it. Great game though. AFAIK N has no built in joypad option, but as a workaround you could always use one of the many joy-to-keys utilities avaliable

Re:TROLL ALERT - MOD HIM DOWN!

[drmarcj]

*PLUS* his signature mistakenly attributes a Yoda quote to "Dr. Spock." (Not clear if he's referring to the baby book guy, or the ST:TOS guy.):

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822.3.

Isn't this in itself grounds for bannination from Slashdot? Somebody, please... think of the children!

pff

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't they include any of the great games from the FOSS community. Also alot of great mods for ut2k4/doom3 should have been included.

It's only 1 page for me...

[SoupaFly]

Maybe they changed it based on comments, but everything loaded up in 1 ad-free page for me.

I'm SO happy to see Gish winning the award...

[Lisandro]

... of best indie game of the year. It's a terrific game, well done, and i'd venture to say it's one of the best platform games i've ever tried.

It's hard to explain exactly why the game is so fun, but it boils down to the controls: you are a blob of tar, and you can only move, jump, make yourself heavier, lighter or "sticky". The game uses these concepts in very smart puzzles, but again, you have to play it to get it. It also looks great, and i love the cartoony design of the characters.

Give it a try if you haven't to: the game is cheap and avaiable for Windows, Mac and Linux. Kudos to Chronic Logic!

PS: The retro warp zones are a riot!

Re:I'm SO happy to see Gish winning the award...

[marcobi]

I agree, the game is a very good platform, reminds me of, IIRC, Cauldron II (the one where you were a bouncing pumpkin)

so

[geekoid]

you don't read newspapers,
don't read magazines,
dont' watch TV,
and don't drive.
wow, you must be one interesting fellow.

Re:so

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, he's just a Troll.

I mean, you checked out his username, right?

Re:so

[Moofie]

Doesn't seem to me like any of those activities make one an interesting person.

But heck...what do I know? I still read, like, books and stuff. How last millenium.

Re:so

[Anonymous Coward]

Some other possibly interesting things this person could do:
-Read books
-Read technical journals
-Listen to music (live or recorded)
-Play music
-Watch movies (or "films," even)
-Write software
-Build electronics
-Play some kind of sport
-Build furniture or other wooden things
-Paint or draw or photograph things
-Fly a plane (or spaceship, even)

Sheesh. I hope you're not really a father.

Two thousand four games?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess the guy that hates top-10 lists must really hate this one.

A bit sad...

[Bagels]

to see Spiderweb Software's Blades of Avernum tactical RPG missing from the list. I am getting a tad tired of the re-use of the old Avernum engine, but the plots of Jeff Vogel's scenarios and the overall gameplay are just fantastic. Avernum 2 remains my favorite, if only for some of the ridiculous battles that you could face off in the end (one of which had the enemy turns lasting a good twenty times longer than mine simply because there were so many of them). You could keep yourself occupied for hours just playing the various demos available from their site - since each demo is about a fourth of its respective game, there's literally about the equivalent of a game and a half there to play.

Re:A bit sad...

[Master Of Ninja]

Well Spiderweb's RPGs have always been good, but I was a bit disappointed to see the Exile series rehashed into Avernum. However the games are still good anyway, although I do wish they could come out with something new.

Re:A bit sad...

[Bagels]

That'd be the two Geneforge games, which also have (very) slightly better graphics thanks to a different engine. I didn't get quite as sucked in to them, though.

Re:A bit sad...

[Sigma 7]

Well Spiderweb's RPGs have always been good, but I was a bit disappointed to see the Exile series rehashed into Avernum. However the games are still good anyway, although I do wish they could come out with something new.

The storyline and combat in Spiderweb's game can be good, but soon after I purchased the game, I found another RPG called "Angband", version 2.7.9. After that, I found the Exile series to have a somewhat clumsy interface because of the lack of keyboard targetting (e.g. you require a mouse to play.)

Expansion pack?

[Weeb]

The submitter is feigning dramatic ignorance in the hope of generating controversy and attention, methinks.

This will be covered over and over again, but I'm going to try and be concise:

When you code a brand new engine from scratch, it's not an expansion. Expansions are add-ins for existing engines. 'kay?

While I appreciate the edgy tone of effective PR, I do hope that cyrus_zuo understands that his mischaracterization erodes his credibility as any sort of authority on gaming.

I love Halo 2, but there are many accurate gripes you can offer toward it:

- Unsatisfying ending
- Repetitious single player action
- Microsoft is evil

I could go on. Over-zealous "indie" people are bitter and angry in any case. The snarky is to be expected.

Re:Expansion pack?

[cyrus_zuo]

For whatever reason I thought I'd respond to this one...you are dead on right in why I wrote the piece on Halo. It was totally unfair and aimed at having people pay attention to the post. The hope was to stir up a little energy. Energy means visits and that is typically good...except in this case it was way too much of a good thing. As far as being bitter and angry, not really any more than anyone else. I enjoy all sorts of games and play them all way to much, indie or mainstream.

Re:Expansion pack?

[oneiron]

Repent and you shall be strung up by your toes.

Re:Expansion pack?

[cyrus_zuo]

Nice :) What is the purpose of a news story but to drive traffic and discussion on that story?

Re:Expansion pack?

[oneiron]

Yes, that's the american way. I'm glad you've got that down.

Traditionally, the purpose of news is to inform, however.

Year of the warhammer!

[Anonymous Coward]

Cammarades! Attention to all! The warhammer revolution has begun.

\
=======0
o

-warhammer

Post title should read...

[JoeCommodore]

"2004 Windows-based Indie Games of the Year"

looking at many of the lists the only exception I saw was one out for Gamecube/Xbox. Pretty narrow view if you ask me.

Back in the 80's and early 90's all the Microsoft users kept calling my Commodore 64 a 'games machine!'

Re:Post title should read...

[hugg]

Mofo -- Gish has versions for OS X and Linux. Indie game and console game are mutually exclusive BTW. Too much coin/tribute.

Re:Post title should read...

[WWWWolf]

Well, the thing is, the console makers have this annoying tendency to charge arm and leg for developer license. You may be able to do development without paying using third-party toolkits (homebrew dev tools exist for many consoles), but a) the hardware itself is tricky (mysterious cartridges or proprietary optical media, signed code and other copy-protection mechanisms, you name it...) and b) the console makers get Very Angry if you develop unlicensed but for-profit games, so that kind of depresses the indie game developers.

As for your sig about Microsoft users calling C64 a game machine - well, the thing had Microsoft's BASIC, right? =)

Re:Post title should read...

[JoeCommodore]

Well in my defense, TFA didn't state any other PC/Mac platforms but Windows on the list. I don't play many games.

Re:Post title should read...

[JoeCommodore]

But what about OSX, and Linux, I guess they don't like unlicensed for-profit games either??

I didn't know Windows counts a a console in itself... though with MS' new DRM bent I guess your're right.

The sig was an observation that now Windows is considered a games machine more than the other OSs - which was something (back then) that used as a point of shame for using a 64.

Gish is available for Linux and Mac!

[Admiral Burrito]

What crappy info at gametunnel... I was disappointed going through the list and seeing "System requirements:" with four or five versions of Windows listed, and nothing about Mac or Linux.

Just downloaded Gish (for Linux) and will try it out. I wonder what other games on that list are also cross-platform.

Interesting anecdote about I of the Enemy

[Pluvius]

At the forum for the warez .NFO site I frequent, the developer of that game actually asked people for their opinions about it. I'm not sure if he realized that everyone there was a software pirate, but either way he managed to guilt-trip a few people out of downloading his game. Brilliant idea, far better than most copy protection.

Rob

"Originality...

[Jaidon]

...is the art of concealing your source." -- Franklin P. Jones

So...Gish eh? Seems our good friends at Chronic Logic have either been rumaging around in the bargain software bins on eBay or have suffered a severe SNES flashback -- not unlike an acid flashback with ones and zeros instead of serotonin and dopamine.

With a little bit of searching, I was able to come up with the following FAQ on a game I played long ago called Smart Ball and a screenshot. Here's the game's title screen.

Congratulations guys, you just did a "21st century Hollywood" style re-make of a really crappy game. Maybe you'd like to try your hand at updating Extreme Sports with the Berenstein Bears for Gameboy Color.

Re:"Originality...

[Anonymous Coward]

You fucking idiot.

Re:"Originality...

[Anonymous Coward]

Very ORIGINAL comeback there my friend. At least Jaidon did his research; where's yours to prove your statement?

Bias towards arcade-ish games, perhaps.

[Stonehand]

Is it too much to hope for that one sees more original games than an Arkanoid remake? Or that the blurbs would more fully describe gameplay, rather than describing a game's *music* as the star, or lauding its artwork?

Re:Sadly, website is down.

[TykeClone]

He's been playing GTA: Vice City and listening to the commercials too much.

Half?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah and 80% of those female characters are played by men.

The rest of the story...

[Cryptnotic]

I think the rest of the story is "GNAA Wants j00!!!". I'm sure it's a test of an automatic slashdot-posting troll bot.

Xbox runs linux! Xbox rules!

[xtermin8]

When /.ers heard that M$ is losing money on Xbox, it was hackable, and that linux could be ported to it, I think it became a favorite- especially in contrast to Gamecube- (although GClinux is making headway) Secondly, "Mac people" aren't really interested in the latest games. If they were, they wouldn't be buying macs. The fact that you've been modded as insightful just proves to me how lame /. can get.

Our Indie First-Person Shooter

[MiceHead]

I'll take a moment to plug our indie-developed first-person shooter, Inago Rage. We tried to make the game different from most by focusing gameplay on short burts of flight (MPEG), but what we really concentrated on was the ability for players to create their own arenas (scroll down) without having to use external mod tools. Basically, we've implemented a drag-and-drop system to allow players to place buildings, towers, bridges, enemies, prizes, and particle generators.

The graphics are not likely to outdo those of this past year's AAA titles, but I'm happy with what we were able to produce. There are a good number of reasonably-priced tools that (I think) make it possible for smaller studios to create visually attractive games.

We're hoping to release a demo by the end of Janary, and have experimented with attempts at web commercials to get the word out. (The holy grail of the Viral Video eludes us, as yet -- we'll keep trying). We're also in the alpha test stage of an overhead shooter using the same technology called Last Man on Mars (WMV video).

Here's hoping Inago Rage will be a contender for the top 10 indie titles of 2005.
__________________________
Inago Rage

Re:Our Indie First-Person Shooter

[rhuntley12]

Game looks kind of interesting. Reminds me of a game I used to play a lot back when I did a lot of drugs. Hope it works out well for you, I'll be sure to check out the demo when released.

Re:Our Indie First-Person Shooter

[JAgostoni]

Is there a demo version of the game? I would certainly love to try out the game before I snag it. It is certainly a nice twist on an FPS.

Re:Our Indie First-Person Shooter

[JAgostoni]

Nevermind now that I have RTFP and fully understood it :( ... I could have sworn I read it over and over and yet I still missed the entire sentence devoted to saying that you are going to release a demo. Mods, mod my post down :)

Re:Our Indie First-Person Shooter

[Anonymous Coward]

How can I put this ..

On this new coming 2005
I sincerely wish you all go fucking bankrupt
and that your mediocre single-platform game to be the worse mistake ever in your life.
(apart from your birth of course)

Mediocre developers.
Bill Gates loves you tongue-darting his worm-ridden chocolate-star.

Re:Our Indie First-Person Shooter

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, not gonna happen. But keep workin' it. :)

Gish

[Sheepdot]

So I RTFA and played the #1 game.

It sucks. Original idea? Yeah. Good game? Well, I'd rather play HL2, and it only cost me 20 bucks more than the full verison of this.

There's a reason these games are indy, and it isn't because they are simply unique.

gaming haiku

[swyterw]

independent games
still depend on a player.
they need a new name.


-w

Halo 2, The Indie Top 10, and Progressivism

[superultra]

It's elitism like the kind displayed in the post and on the page that will marginalize indie games into an ignored niche. Let's be clear before we start writing off high budget video games: of the top 10 indie games listed, six of the writeups mention as a positive characteristic that the game is similar to existing mainstream game franchises. I have played several games on the list, bought them, and liked them - but there are none that I would at all consider groundbreaking or seminally creative (ie. Gish = platformer + physics + goth). All are obviously borrowing from somewhere; some, like Hamsterball, could very well have been PC ports of video games like Super Monkey Ball. They are all great titles I'm sure, but they are all progressive in their creativity - not at all unlike a certain high budget Xbox FPS. Several of the writeups mention the quality of graphics or the polish. Again, all features of that FPS Which Shall Not Be Named.

I've seen too many posts lamenting the lack of creativity in the top games of 2004. Here again is another form of that. Apparently there are indie game fans who think that these games were created by people who lived apart from civilization all their lives and then suddenly started writing games. Spontaneous creativity is rare, if it even exists at all. Progressive creativity, be it high budget or low, is good and should be applauded whatever its source.

Classic.

[Anonymous Coward]

You have earned one link.

http://www.lohanfreestyle.com/


Heh heh. Flashlight simulator....

Capitalization exists for a reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

Capitalization exists for a reason. I know this is a flamebait thing to say, but I thought your post was halfway insightful, and for future reference, give proper capitalization, and a paragraph or 2, a try.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

This is so funny. Funny post of the year so far...

Doom3 was the tech demo

[gad_zuki!]

>It was obviously the $40m tech demo called Half Life 2

Which is probably one the best games I've played. Excellent visuals and an excellent story. I don't usually replay games, but I've found myself re-doing the urban combat part of HL2 to fight those striders and take another tour of the citadel. Amazing stuff.

A couple thoughts:

Indie works great when a small group can accomplish what a large commercial group can, like in indie music or free software. The instruments/computers, recording studio/compilers, talent etc don't require mammoth amounts of money, but they sure do if you want to compete with the likes of HL2 or Halo 2. That's why most "indie" (best called shareware) games are simple puzzles hoping to become the next office craze, with some notable exceptions.

Slashdot bias of course dictates that Halo 2, a good FPS shooter, must be insulted in some way because of their connection to the Evil Empire! Scary!

Doom3 on the other hand, which was little more than a tech demo and had a poor "marine goes to hell" story ripped from the pages of worst sci-fi potboiler out there gets treated with kid gloves because there's a linux port.

Way, way, too many things at slashdot are political for the sake of linux and its often predictable and takes away from the site.

MS owns bungie and the Xbox. Get over it. Thanks.

Re:Doom3 was the tech demo

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate linux. I also hate Halo 2. It's a steaming pile of shit. It is indeed possible to hate the game based solely on its own merits, and not any link with another company.

I can't comment on Doom 3, since I've never bothered playing it. However, HL2 is definitely deserving of much praise. The graphics are some of the best I've seen this year, the weapons and controls are great, and the gameplay is amazingly fun. I've been routinely going back and playing the airboat level, and the buggy level is a lot of fun to play using the airboat (rezzed using the code "impulse 83"). There's just something satisfying about going back through the entire game with the phys cannon, too. When you grab a dropship and shake the huge alien ragdoll about, it's astonishing.

Gish - Mac version available

[scarletbiro]

I'm downloading the demo for the top game, Gish, for Mac OS X now, although the page listed only Windows flavors available (I was starting to be annoyed by this, but realized it was probably written for Win users and that Gish was probably the only one for Mac too, anyway!).

Article details

[cyrax256]

I tried to read the article (according to previous comments I read, the site changed its layout to prevent /.ing), but I couldn't... The article without graphics is plain boring. I'm into game programming, and try to be up to date, but I've never seen any of the 10 games cyrus_zuo presents me here. The remarks bring no URL where you can know more about the game being rewarded. Yes, I know I can Google names, but what's the point of a game award besides saying "This game is good, you should read about it, and buy it?" The article gives on some games a non-highlighted URL where you can download the game. I think anyway the writer tried to do something good for the community, those are my 2 cents for a better article next year, I'll try to review these games if I get a chance to spot them anywhere.

That was a parody

[Anonymous Coward]

Reread that post and pretend it was on Homestarrunner. Suddenly it's hilarious. I admire the guy, don't consider him a troll.

The top five games include an Arkanoid clone, for Christ's sake. That isn't much different from #3. Solitaire Kapow.

BAH, one guy's opinion

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah that list is just one guy's opinion.

And he apparently is easily influenced by pretty eye-candy. Example: "Revolved".

I downloaded the demo... installed it.. started up in arcade mode... got through about 10 levels and then came to the conclusion that it is impossible to "die" in the game. Where is the challenge? This is lousy game design, but the soundtrack and pretty particle effects apparently make this game a top 10 winner.

oy

different side of gaming?

[Cynikal]

Number 6 - Anito: Defend a Land Enraged...
*click*
http://www.aninoentertainment .com/
Access forbidden!

you gotta respect an rpg game where the game starts even before you download it. so how do i get past this first boss?

Re:different side of gaming?

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like the site has been hacked and we'll just have to wait until somebody gets back from vacation to fix it.

No linux versions...

[agoliveira]

... no games for me ;)

Yeah sure.

[jotaeleemeese]

And the Microsofties call "success" anything that bleeds money as long as it is bleassed by Uncle Bill.

Mod this up...

[Wooky_linuxer]

Well, I didn't RTFA as well, and I was starting to agree that comments had no place in the news post. WTF, I laughed my butt out when I found it was actually a quote from the article.

System requirements don't mention Mac or Linux

[rotten_]

One thing that kinda sucks about the article is the fact that it says that the minimum requirements for all the games is Windows.

However their game of the year ("GISH") supports both Mac and Linux. Would have been nice to list put the real system requirements--not everyone runs Windows.

Re:System requirements don't mention Mac or Linux

[IntergalacticWalrus]

I agree. When I was reading this I said: Damn, only Windows-only games, huh? Hey wait, gish isn't! What the hell? Why do they only mention Windows 98/ME/2000/XP ?

Re:I would love to... but

[Psykechan]

My computer meets all of the system requirements except for the Windows and DirectX.

This is /. afterall. You'll probably want to wait until you have a Mac or *nix version before you announce it here.

Revolved is re-boring

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried Revolved and don't understand why it won what it did. If you remove the fancy 3D graphics, particle effects and soundtrack, what you're left with is a game where you keep rotating the pieces and never lose. A good game design requires some sort of challenge, and this one has none. After completing about 10 levels without any effort, I quit. Why would anyone pay money for this?

Nope, not half at all

[Fricka]

Sorry but I don't know where you got your figures from but the highest percentage ever quoted of female EQ players is around 30%, not "almost half".

And that figure includes females of all ages.

What is true though is that there are a lot of female avatars being played... and that a large number of them are being played by males.

Is it difficult?

[jswalter9]

Is it difficult to create a game that'll run on multiple systems? Isn't it possible to use libraries that cross platforms so that you can release versions for systems other than windows?

I ask this because I intend to start developing a game, and noticed that every single game on this indie list is released ONLY for windows.

Operating Systems: GISH

[Anonymous Coward]

Minimum system requirements:
# Windows 98/ME/2000/XP, Linux or OSX 10.1+

And why didnt the FUCKKERS MENTIONED that in THEIR SHIITY WEBSITE ?????

GISH runs on LINUX u fucking PRICKS !!!

Mind you I dont recommend that crappy game / but that it could appeal to others that now think it is NOT available for Linux or Mac.

Um, no...

[PigeonGB]

Gish isn't an amazing side scroller because it stars a ball of tar. What's done well is that it is based on physics and uses it in a way to make the game incredibly fun. Have you even played it?

Re:Um, no...

[Jaidon]

Yes, and the only difference I noticed was that Gish won't run on an SNES.