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Business Under Fire
Since the revival of the Palestinian intifada in October 2000, hundreds of thousands of jobs have been lost in Israel -- a situation made worse by the NASDAQ meltdown of the same period. With an Israeli population of only 6.2 million, these lost jobs have had a catastrophic effect on the economy.
As a management consultant, Carrison wondered how any company, let alone an entire economy, could survive in an environment ravaged by terrorism and a recession. He questioned -- from a business perspective -- how businesses in Israel were able to stay viable in such a chaotic and destructive environment. He concludes, after spending time in Israel and interviewing many business leaders there, that even with all of the terrorism the Israeli economy is surprisingly robust.
Without getting into the politics of the middle-east conflict, nor taking sides, the book shows both technology and business managers how they can deal with the most adverse of situations.
Carrison interviews a cross section of CEOs and managers from industries hurt the hardest; namely tourism, hotel, hi-tech and biotech. What emerges from all of the stories is that every manager claims that the intifada not destroyed his company, but has actually made it a leaner and more efficient organization and one that will be ready to go into overdrive when normal economic times resume.
The five chapters have the same format: interviews with CEOs and senior directors, and a checklist for managing a business under fire. Each interviewee offers his own observations and strategies on how to deal with the current situation and work towards future growth. These strategies run from redefining the market, sharing the risk, to contingency plans and more.
One significant difference between Israel and America is demonstrated by the way Israeli citizens deal psychologically with terrorism. In an interview with financial consultant Danny Halpern, Carrison asks how many people would rent office space in the World Trade Center in New York City, were it completely rebuilt and reopened tomorrow. Halpern doubts the World Trade Center would have the same occupancy level as before 9/11. But he notes that in Israel, office are repopulated after they are bombed, and customers frequent bombed cafes and restaurants as soon as they are repaired.
Another telling difference that Halpern observed is that in Israel is more concerned with the quality of security, whereas in the U.S., more is invested into the mechanics of security. In the U.S., because of the huge numbers involved, the investment in security by default is in the mechanics, and the system. With that, minimum wage workers are hired to carry out what are supposedly important security functions.
The hotel industry has been hit hard. Hotels operate with large staffs, and require high occupancy rates to break even (roughly 75 percent). Carrison interviewed a number of hotel managers who saw their occupancy rate average about 25 percent. By any account, those hotels should have closed its doors and declared bankruptcy. But what happened is that the hotels discovered many correctable inefficiencies. In fact, Raphy Weiner, General Manager of the five-star Daniel Hotel, noted that he learned how inefficient the hotel had been before the crisis and "we'll never go back to the old way. The intifada has been a school for us."
The lesson that American IT managers can take from Weiner are that even the most adverse situation can be a fulcrum for change. Those in danger of having their jobs outsourced -- a significant number of us -- can take those lessons to heart, and hope that their managers and CEOs do too.
Carrison found that every manager had been challenged in cataclysmic ways, but refused to be run out of business by terrorists. Their defiance to the terrorists led them to streamline operations, reduce staff and determine a method to ride out the economic storm. That cutting back leads to a cruel irony: the people most heavily hurt from an economic perspective are the many Palestinian workers who -- before the intifada started -- had good jobs in Israel. The severe cutbacks in many firms resulted in Palestinian workers losing their jobs as a direct result of terrorist activities by their compatriots.
While the cause of the Israeli programmer losing his job is not the same as that of the American programmer; the manner in which they both can rebuild can be the same. Nietzsche's observation that "what does not destroy me, makes me stronger" is the attitude in interview after interview in the book. There is a lot that American programmers and managers can learn from those under fire in Israel.
You can purchase Business Under Fire: How Israeli Companies Are Succeeding in the Face of Terror - and What We Can Learn from Them from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
I guess you can always rely on making money from writing books taking advantage of mass fears and the yearly bandwagon?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Why is it that the US is all gungho about a world economy and taking over every 3rd world country out there, but then when it starts to happen and our job market spreads out, they cry foul and pump up the patriotism?
Slashdot sucks
They are succeeding since the American taxpayers are footing lots of the bill for Israel's defenses. They'd have a much harder time succeeding if the Israelis had to pay for it all themselves.
Let's see if we can have this discussion without descending to racial stereotyping or xenophobia.
That said, it is interesting that some business institutions can survive under enormous stress.
London during the Blitz provided a few examples.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
I don't think the lessons here are about businesses surviving as much as people. Really, if Americans had to deal with the level of terrorism that Isrealis do on a daily basis, society would fall right apart.
"But he notes that in Israel, office are repopulated after they are bombed, and customers frequent bombed cafes and restaurants as soon as they are repaired."
Would you go back to your office after an attack? No. And then they'd raze the building and put up a monument.
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
While at the time this book was written I'm sure it was quite accurate. However, now it is at best interesting fiction. While many jobs are continuing to be outsourced, it at a rapidly declining rate. Things are starting to turn around in the IT field. Much of this outsourcing caused immediate increased revenue because plainly, it was cheaper, however, in the long run it turns out its not the best for companies, so many have come back to America for these jobs. In 5 to 10 years, those in the IT profession are going to have a real good situation, especially those in the computer engineering field.
It just seems everything these days need to get a coat of "Magic Terrorism Paint (tm)" in order to sell, doesn't it?
This, my friends, is one of the reasons why violent actions should be used very very sparingly. Violence usually has a way of just polarizing a situation to the point where both sides are destroyed in the process. Just think how prosperous both sides would be if they kissed and made up and stopped this incessant fighting.
NOTE: I'm am not taking anyone's side. It's time for both sides to work it out regardless of the past.
What emerges from all of the stories is that every manager claims that the intifada not destroyed his company, but has actually made it a leaner and more efficient organization and one that will be ready to go into overdrive when normal economic times resume.
I wonder, just because in "crisis mode" more efficiency and productivity can be gained, does this necessarily transfer to normal times. The US rationed materials in WW2, they did not do so later. Also people go at a certain pace, faster in emergency mode. I don't know if it is sustainable in the long term.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
Do you have any reason for saying that MS actually do that?
quite possibly the most asinine statement of this short year...
The book sounds interesting, but it sound more like how managers cope than how programmers cope. I understand that managers can make their businesses leaner by getting more work out of fewer workers, but as an individual programmer, how does this book help me squeeze more work out of myself?
If I read this book, can I write 10x more code, so that my high salery looks competative next to the 10 Indian programmers (who, lets face it, are at least as smart as I am)?
If so, why can't the Indian programmers read the same book and become 100x more competative than I am now?
Season 9, Episode 5F11 of the Simpsons... Everything is there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates.
Halpern doubts the World Trade Center would have the same occupancy level as before 9/11. As crass as it may sound, this is because people died. I don't mean that the population would be the same less the number of victims; rather, that most people would be uncomfortable returning to a "normal" routine in a place that symbolizes much pain for people around the world.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
Workers who once envisioned a bright future now only see grim possibilities.
/. community have grim prospects because of the offshore outsourcing?
Is that just a bit of an overstatement? My first 4 years in the industry I was fulltime. The longest layoff I had (I'm now fulltime again) in 9 years as a contract programmer after that was 4 months. That followed the Enron/Dynegy/El Paso fiasco in Houston.
What people out there in the
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
This, right here, is the biggest oversimplification I have read in a long time.
Would you like to back this statement up? Any time you say anything like that, you should, unless you are trolling.
If he really wanted to do a book about doing business under adverse conditions he should have written about Palestinian companies.
What can you possibly do that an indian or a chinese could not? I mean that sincerely.
evil is as evil does
Flamebait, huh...
He does have a point here. Let's compare the relatively safe America (virtually no terrorist attacks in the past 5 years) to a goddamned war zone. What exactly ARE you supposed to learn? There is no comparison; here's a clue why: corporations are, obviously, outsourcing INTENTIONALLY to maximize value. Why the (expletive) then would the situation be comparable to the case where workers are occasionally maimed or disintegrated by suicide bombers?
By making such an asinine comparison, the only conclusions to be drawn are 1) universal militarism as parodied by MH42 here or 2) some Horatio Alger-esque platitude about endurance and coping with loss. The latter would be inspiring, except that the loss in America is coming from the employers and not some convenient biblical enemy.
I like the way the reviewer (and the book, apparently) say that Americans are pussies:
One significant difference between Israel and America is demonstrated by the way Israeli citizens deal psychologically with terrorism. In an interview with financial consultant Danny Halpern, Carrison asks how many people would rent office space in the World Trade Center in New York City, were it completely rebuilt and reopened tomorrow. Halpern doubts the World Trade Center would have the same occupancy level as before 9/11. But he notes that in Israel, office are repopulated after they are bombed, and customers frequent bombed cafes and restaurants as soon as they are repaired.
I tend to agree (and yes, I'm an American).
I don't respond to AC's.
Why should writing *more* code be a sign of higher productivity?
-Max
It is probably a bit off-topic, but why doesn't Israel just give the fucking land back? Somebody has to stand up and make the first move toward peace. People are more important than dirt. It is not even that much land. If terrorism continues AFTER they give the land back, then play eye-for-eye: if a Pali terrorist kills 7 Israeli's, then launch a strike to kill 7 Pali's. Their standing in the world would greatly increase if they simply gave the post-66 land back. It would put the ball back in the Pali's court.
Table-ized A.I.
We have created an environment that is becoming increasingly more hostile to free enterprise. The U.S. took a real beating on the Heritage Foundation's Economic Freedom Index and yet so few Americans care. Too many Americans want benefits out the ass from the government and then complain when the economy starts to take a hit.
Here's a solution: tort reform and deregulation of the work environment. Get rid of Social Security and Medicare and make employees responsible for their own medical care and retirement. With retirement accounts it is possible to come out much richer than one would get with SS. Many of the people who have no insurance and rely on medicare could afford private insurance if they give up amenities like cable tv, alcohol, cigarettes and junk food. There are also many charities that support those who can't, but a lot of people don't want be, to pull from Office Space, "like those scumbags at the welfare office" (in this case, the charity).
Stop tossing billions at boondoggles like welfare, corporate subsidization, "public education," the war on drugs and foreign wars like the current one in Iraq where we just piss away our money and manpower for nothing and maybe Americans will cost a lot less to hire. You have a choice: the level of government services you have today or your job tomorrow. They cannot coexst because there simply isn't enough money to support both.
American tech workers, you want to blame anyone on why you cost so much? Blame the Leviathan for imposing massive costs through outrageous taxes that go to wasteful programs and massive regulations that often make no sense. Stop voting for the Democrats and Republicans and vote for people who want the system reformed.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
courtesy of the world's most dangerous and inarticulate "leader"
Regards,
K. Trout, CEO
I thought Joel said to stop worrying about all the jobs going to India. What gives? Is it only old people in Korea who should worry about outsourcing? I'm so confused.
In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.
Book doesn't seem to touch on some issues, specifically, Israel receives over $3B is subsidies from the US per year, and a lot of that is earmarked for tech. Israel subsidizes its tech companies, something most countries don't. For specific companies, consider Aladdin, maker of security devices, vs Rainbow technologies. The Israeli gov. pumped millions into Aladdin to advertise in the US. Rainbow, a public US company, didn't get such incentive from the US gov.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Outsourcing == Terrorism! Now THAT message might actually sell in Washington these days. Why didn't we think of it early? :)
I find it very amusing every time I read about Americans complaining about loosing their jobs to outsourcing.
What exactly did the people of America expect from the World Trade Organization, APEC and NAFTA?
Did Americans really expect that these free trade organizations and treaties would only work in favor of the US? That the US would be able to import goods even cheaper than normal, creating virtual slave states in places like Mexico and China?
Next time the WTO comes to town and you sit down at starbucks instead of heading out to the streets in protest, consider that free trade works both ways. It's specifically designed to make it easy for corporations to find the cheapest labor possible, which pushes expensive US jobs overseas to be done by equally qualified professionals in other places like India for a fraction of the cost.
And as long as corporations only want more profit, it will keep moving this way, so just get used to it. Stop buying SUV, 4 dollar coffees and 5,000 dollar LCD TVs, reduce your lifestyle to something more modest and take a salary cut or live with the fact that the American dream along with it's capitalist economy is going down the drain.
Personally I couldn't be happier this is happening, but it's irritating to see a country be so naive and ignorant about the mess it created all by itself.
-- Leo Utskot
Sun will be announcing 'real soon now'.
I guarantee you that if we took some of the politicians responible for outsourcing, and tried them for treason in a court of law, and then executed the ones found guilty (as traitors should be executed, by precedent of law), 90% of that outsourcing would disappear toot-sweet....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Because some forces want... All the land back!
Because the land was promised to them buy god. It doesn't belong to the Palenstinians.
The WTC property has been the source of a major fight as to who gets to build what kind of building -- massive developer interest. I have no doubt that if really good, class A office property gets built on the site once the developer spats are finished that it will fill up in a heartbeat, particularly if its a unique design or gains any kind of "cool" cachet.
I repsectfully disagree. Americans will never tolerate the terrorism that Isreal has. Private citizens are too well armed (legally) and too, for lack of a better term, righteous. If we were to have car bombs and suicide bombings start, you would see every rifle rack in a every pickup full.
Not just that, but you'd start seeing rifle racks appearing in places other than pickups - like SUV's and Honda Accords. And "Security Mom" would take on a whole new level of meaning.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
My parents worked in the Defence industry... too bad they were 'expendable' after the Cold War. Of course, they were delighted to stop designing things that killed people, and happy to retire.
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
The external funding of Palestine by groups opposed to US inerests.
If both Palistine and Israel had to fight each other with resources they have and no outside influence, the fight would have been over long ago. It's poor form to suggest you remove funding from one side of the equation alone.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's also possible to come out with zilch. If your mother-in-law is bad with money (and whose isn't?), she just might end up having to move in with you. Nobody wants to risk that, and that's why Social Security isn't going away any time soon.
Yep, to about the tune of $2 Billion With A Capital B in "military aide", and +$700M in economic aide. $3B isn't enough- they want more for "border security" and whatnot.
Think I'm using some nazi group for my figures? Phbt. Try the Haaretz.
None of this counts the billions in defense spending; Israel makes a HUGE number of major and minor systems for virtually every US military vehicle.
Slighty sarcastic view- maybe if we saved that $3B+/yr, we'd solve two problems at once- the Israelis would get a lot more serious about the peace process, and we'd have money to pump into our own economy instead of theirs. Like, say, our crumbling roads/railway system, healthcare/retirement, inadequate community emergency services, etc.
Of course, that will never happen. Any politician who suggests cutting aide to Israel stands to be accused of anti-semetism...
Please help metamoderate.
Don't forget that each israeli citizen receives about $500 dollars in free money from the US. Hell a measely $300 tax break is supposed to have magically saved out economy, so it's not exactly like Israel is really doing that well.
Why would the "article" start talking about a book from another author on outsourcing and make the job to terrorism???
I'm no fan of offshoring jobs, but to put those 2 things together is fairly irresponsible.
- sigs are for wimps.
You're just kidding right? Quoting the 'Heritage Foundation'? This uber-libertarian drivel you're spouting is as unrealistic as a pure communal society. Get your head out of your ass.
One significant difference between Israel and America is demonstrated by the way Israeli citizens deal psychologically with terrorism. In an interview with financial consultant Danny Halpern, Carrison asks how many people would rent office space in the World Trade Center in New York City, were it completely rebuilt and reopened tomorrow. Halpern doubts the World Trade Center would have the same occupancy level as before 9/11. But he notes that in Israel, office are repopulated after they are bombed, and customers frequent bombed cafes and restaurants as soon as they are repaired.
I don't see where this would be the case at all. If they had rebuilt the WTC (or any part of it) you know that people might have been reluctant - for about a week - and then come to it in droves, because (let's face it) it's primo real estate in New York. And that would override all concerns about saftey. People think about safeness in the abstract, but rarley apply it is a major criteria in what they do day-to-day.
If this were not so, would you not expect to see people leaving New York (a known target)? Yet they do not. US Citizens as a whole may not be used to the smae level of violence as a place like Israel, but I would say there is an innate stubborness in humanity that resists being "forced" to do something via violence, so people would likely show up at a cafe after an attack just as a show of spite against the attackers.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's all a matter of what your accustomed to. America, and Americans are not a climatized to even having enemies. Keep in mind with the exception of perl harbor no war has ever been fought on american soil since the civil war. so why should they/we be able to deal with terrorism. What cracks me up even more is the fact that Isreal expereinces so much terrorism because they are bullies. They bully people off their own land then when the people retaliate they cry foul. I'm tired of Isreal playing the victim card.
No matter whether it makes all that much sense, if corporate lobbyists (who probably are paying money to authors and media people to conflate terrorism with job loss) can make an association between job loss and terrorism, that opens the gates for more and easier manipulation of the American public. They can justify more imperialism.
It's ALL good, for them, that is. No conspiracy needed or called for. Just everyday business in the corporatist empire. All sorts of businesses pay regular money to industry lobbyists, and then the lobbyists spend that money on things like propaganda/PR, stuff that is calculated to increase revenues and profits for the businesses that pay their lobbyist fees. And the subject of this slashdot post may well be one example of such lobbyist propaganda.....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Yeah, well, some Israelis want to take all of Palestine. By your logic, then, Israel cannot be compromised with.
1) Have no morals.
2) Write a book linking two of the hottest negative topics in the news in specious ways.
3) Profit!
See? No "???" there at all!
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
Pay for my own education.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
As I understand it, just before this latest terrorism mess started up over there, they were willing to give in to almost all of the Palistinian demands. However, the 95% solution wasn't good enough for them. So they all find themselves in this mess, with no clear way out of it.
And yes, it actually is a lot of land relative to the size of the country.
Oh, and why doesn't the rest of the surrounding Arab world offer to take in the Palistinians and solve the problem? Well, because they probably don't really like the Palistinians either, beyond their usefulness as a political tool against Israel.
Well of course if the environment suddenly changes to a more demanding one, the surviving entities (in this case bussiness) will be fitter. Or, rather, only the ones that are already fit, or manage to streamline will survive. But streamlining means shedding all fat from the company. The author seems to think that all companies miraculously converted into lean and mean demons of efficiency. The voice of the failed companies is not to be heard. After all, one characteristic of deceased companies is their usual mutism.
And even if all companies manage to streamline, then a lot of people is having no job. Because, let's face it, a lot of people have no place in a really lean company. What about all those lazy people idling near the coffe machines in all big enterprises? What about all the procrastinators, the inefficient, the (as Tom Sharpe would put it) overacting underachievers ? What about middle managers? What about myself ?
And they have children, spouse, all that kind of things. They need the money as much as the efficient person does. In fact, probably much more so, as they have more free time. In an inefficient market these people will suck their living from the fruits of the labor of the really efficient, and so won't end up in the streets committing evil deeds, or becoming politicians.
So the merits of a really streamlined bussiness market is in my opinion much overblown. There is some quiet and relaxed quelity of living in an inefficient world, as any East-German, nostalgic of the old central-economy times will tell you.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
God promised them land when they were struggling to come out of Egypt. That doesn't mean he promised it would be there for them thousands of years later.
Nothing is forever, at least not in this world. Get over that.
It's a bloody miracle Israel still exists. Her neighbors have all been quite keen on her destruction for some time now. The reason Israel does not give back all the land she conquered is because she doesn't have a deathwish. Look at maps of Israel before the surrounding countries began declaring war on her. Among many weaknesses, the country could be cut in half by the occupation/bombardment of a very narrow strip of land. So when neighboring countries declared war on Israel, she took control of lands that would provide necessary buffers. Israel ended up giving most of the lands back, but I think it's perfectly reasonable that she kept land critical to her security.
Get rid of Social Security and Medicare
This common chant from ignorant morons and republicans is seriously flawed. what happens when someone goes to the hospital without health insurance and there is no Medicare. without Medicare the health industry would implode and collapse. what we need is a public system that can be afforded by all and then health costs would go down because hospitals dont have to take such a horrible hit when an uninsured person is admitted. (where did you get your brain a cracker jack box, you are such a fucking moron it)
"like those scumbags at the welfare office"
Another infantile moronic statement, the republicans and Republican companies are the biggest welfare whores in the US. the amount of money spent on welfare is minuscule when compared to the amount of money spent to subsidize the industries that are so dear to the republican party. and guess what you fucking ape brained dimwitted waste of human skin. that welfare mom that you hate so much contributes more to you economic security that the fat peace of shit subsidized company that you probably think is wonderful you fucking ignorant savage you should that the welfare lady because shes part of the reason that you have a job fucktard.
Please do the world a favor and kill your children your wife and yourself. because people like you are air pollution.
Question is also how to split teritory, check this site how various proposals split them http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html Most countries are kinda circular, following natural borders (mountains, rivers) except those done by administrative splits like political map of Africa.
Basically, if you aren't the boss, you're screwed, and will be screwed more as time goes on, no matter what externalities exist.
Do we need another publication telling us this? No.
I'm sure the fact that Israel is a large supplier of oil products wouldn't at all be an influencial factor with the US interests in keeping them happy...
Presuming that "you" refers to a U.S. citizen and by "an indian or chinese" you mean a citizen of the respective country, then the list includes:
- Work legally in the U.S. without obtaining approval from the INS.
- Apply for a U.S. government security clearance.
That is, there are a variety of jobs for which being a foreign national is a disqualification.Amen, I'm amazed at the people who want to suck on the state teat, yet complain about their tax burden, or the restrictions, or just how bad life sucks and then expect the same state to fix the problem...
At the bottom of the endless pile of paper work which characterizes all regulation lies a gun.
Alan Greenspan
"Many of the people who have no insurance and rely on medicare could afford private insurance if they give up amenities like cable tv, alcohol, cigarettes and junk food."
Many of them don't have those expenses, and are still in the hole. What now?
" We have created an environment that is becoming increasingly more hostile to free enterprise. "
Yup. Let's let the phone company walk all over efforts to getting broadband. Hell. Let's do away with universal broadband in the US.
"The U.S. took a real beating on the Heritage Foundation's Economic Freedom Index"
) economic freedom is partly a measure how much a government interferes with business. Those pesky things like minimum wages, overtime pay, and regulated safe working conditions. You know, those things that make America a desirable place to live? The more of those you have in a country the lower that country rates on the "economic freedom" scale. So "economic freedom" is a euphemism for "oppressed citizenry". Personally I thank god that our country scores poorly on "economic freedom".
From the site, (http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/
The parent then goes on to cite ways he would like to improve our country, such as removing social safety nets:
"Get rid of Social Security and Medicare and make employees responsible for their own medical care and retirement."
Because of course poor people are just lazy, never mind that many people work two part time jobs totaling over 40 hours a week and are thus ineligible for healthcare. But their poor, right? So who cares!
Another gem from the parent article:
"With retirement accounts it is possible to come out much richer than one would get with SS."
Because economic markets are so stable! Let's just try to forget all the people who lost all their savings with companies' deceitful accounting and the dot com crash.
"Many of the people who have no insurance and rely on Medicare could afford private insurance if they give up amenities like cable TV, alcohol, cigarettes and junk food."
I agree! Considering that many working families live on 1000$ a month net pay and the last quote I saw for private insurance was 400$ a month, It is very easy! (If you're a Vietnamese person sharing a one bedroom studio with 30 of your closest relatives)
"There are also many charities that support those who can't..."
Oh yah, the charity to fund peoples hernia operations. They just helped me out with mine...
"Americans will cost a lot less to hire."
Let me point out another country where labor is extremely cheap. MEXICO! You're right; we should model our economy on the example of a third world country.
I hope to god that the above poster was trolling and doesn't actually believe what he wrote.
The real question here should be why the U.S. spends 3 Billion a year on Israel. Why do they need to live there again? Simply tell them you're cutting off funding and they can be U.S. citizens or go it on their own.
The reason the U.S. pays for this is because they want to keep Israel as a beachead in the middle east for oil concerns. As well, they force Israel to spend 65% of that money they give them on defense...and who makes the weapons that israel buys? The U.S. weapon companies! It's just a funnel to put tax dollars in to corporations pockets through backdoor shnanagains. The Israelis are stuck in the middle with no way out.
If anyone here's the villian, it's the U.S. senate for causing this mess in the first place.
"I find it very amusing every time I read about Americans complaining about loosing their jobs to outsourcing."
"In the end, ISPs don't want competition."
Let's be honest here. No one like's competition. Businesses don't like competition. Geeks don't like competition (of course they don't see the irony inherent in their position).
After that it's all just the details of whom do we blame (Not I).
Yes, I'm sure it wouldn't, as they aren't...
I don't see why Israel needs to give the Arabs any land at all, considering that Israel conquered it in the Six-Day War as a result of Arab nations conglomerating together to wipe Israel off the map.
But our military hasn't.If you want to look at it that way. Again, those countries don't face the same threat in the 21st century that they faced in the 20th century.
But our military planning hasn't changed. Our force deployment hasn't changed.
Having 10,000 tanks in Germany would have been a good idea in 1975. In 2005, it's just a waste of money.Meanwhile, the US government is running how large of a deficit?
The government has LIMITED income and must decide where to spend that money.
All governments are like that.No, we don't pay for their ``social safety net''. THEY pay for it.
All WE do is maintain troops and equipment and bases there. Are those needed to defend those countries in 2005?
It doesn't look like it.And how is Russia a threat to Germany today? Hmmmmm?
The threat TODAY is from terrorism. And Germany has been dealing with terrorist attacks in their country for years. We could learn from their approach.
I am afraid to say that this is the opinion of most of the conservatives in this country (ok pseudo conservatives, they really dont know what they believe). Its just a bunch of nonsensical idealistic rhetoric that really doesnt make much sense. I wish conservatives in this country could learn to love themselves again.
"I guarantee you that if we took some of the politicians responible for outsourcing, and tried them for treason in a court of law, and then executed the ones found guilty (as traitors should be executed, by precedent of law), 90% of that outsourcing would disappear toot-sweet...."
Then you'd have to put every Wal-Mart shopper to death. We like to blame our politicians for this mess, but we (the citizens of America) brought this mess on ourselves. Killing politicians while leaving the root causes in place is simply the American way of knee-jerk solutions, we're legendary for.
-- "repeat process"!
"Whatever doesn't kill me makes me bitter and cynical"
- Too Much Coffee Man
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Majorly modded down though- last time I try to interject reality into the business world.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Am I getting some facts wrong? Arafat walked away from the negotiating table at Camp David even when he was offered 95 % of the land from the 1967 war.
He did so because the intifada was a effective money earner. In 2002 or so, Arafat was worth some 1.5 Billion $. He did this because he cheated his own people.
You're asking the wrong people to get serious about the peace process. Do you know Jordan gets more than 1.5 Billion and Egypt gets 3 Billion odd in US funds every year?
We paid you well for that help thanks.
Isn't this a dup?
Henry (America): These people are trying to kill us!
Indy (Europe, etc): I KNOW that dad!
Herny (America): Well, its a new experiance for me.
Indy (Europe, etc): Happens to me all the time...
I'm tired of Isreal playing the victim card.
Stalin killed Jews. The Nazi's killed a whole lot of non-Jews. That does not seem to be mentioned nearly as much.
It has been 50+ years.. SOME Jews are sounding like sympathy whores. ("look at me, look at me, look at me.")
Israel has heavy private weapon ownership and is hardly short on "righteous" citizens yet is still forced to 'tolerate' terrorism.
Private gun ownership certainly pursuades against certain types of terrorism (hostage taking as an example) and this can be seen in Israel. However it doesn't (and won't) stop terrorism and certainly doesn't stop car bombs and suicide bombings.
Probably the main reason you don't have "retail terrorism" in the USA is because (and this may come as a bit of a shock) there aren't actually that many people out to get you! That is the _only_ credible reason because, as you point out, it would be a piece of piss for anyone so inclined to walk into a school or a hospital etc or park a bomb in front of somewhere popular and make a hell of a mess, regardless private gun ownership.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
"I hope to god that the above poster was trolling and doesn't actually believe what he wrote."
I should point out that no solution will work out, when the foundation, (the people) of a society are crumbling.*
*In all the important ways one can crumble.
end up in the streets committing evil deeds, or becoming politicians.
-1, Redundant. you said the same damned thing twice.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I don't see why Israel needs to give the Arabs any land at all, considering that Israel conquered it in the Six-Day War as a result of Arab nations conglomerating together to wipe Israel off the map.
So what. Palistinians are poorly-educated babies and are going to stay that way until stability comes. Israel should just swallow some pride and give them some room. Giving them that land back would remove some key excuses Pali has anyhow and Israel could take more retaliatory action without looking like a bully.
Table-ized A.I.
Here is a link to the Heritage study - you might want to read it:
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/co untry.cfm?id=Unitedstates
The facts are that the US received the exact same score in 2004 as in 2003 and its economic freedom score has improved since the survey began in 1995.
The reason the US was ranked lower (12th) this year is because other countries are improving.
In the U.S...the investment in security by default is in the mechanics, and the system. With that, minimum wage workers are hired to carry out what are supposedly important security functions.
True, but better if we're a bit more blunt: US businesses have token security implemented by cheapskate decision makers.
I deal with security for community banks and small to medium businesses in the central US. I've been increasingly frustrated with a complete disregard for US laws, let alone minimal security standards and practices. Consumer information, confidentiality, etc. are all disregarded by most. A $69 Linksys firewall (or perhaps a SonicWall SOHO $500 firewall) represents the ENTIRE security budget for banks with $60 million in deposits.
Two weeks ago, I spent hours working to persuade a branch manager of a growing bank chain to not bypass the broken firewall and present the AS/400 and internal LAN to the Internet using DMZ public addresses. "It's just telnet" was her response - as if cleartext passwords from remote branches weren't inviting enough. As a hacker, I'm only marginal and it would have been a 30 second hack for me, giving me access to the entire bank system, accounts, wire transfers, etc.
Why were they compelled to open up their security? They had a family member of the previous owner initially design and implement the VPN between branches (using SonicWall). A year ago, I warned that undocumented VPN configurations were an invitation for disaster. They ignored my recommendation. The central VPN device failed. The branches were shut off. So processing ability outweighed any consideration for security.
I've had broadband clients with raging worms, spam factories, etc. all refuse to address their security issues (imagine their fury when they get rate shaped to 100kbps to satisfy the upstreams that are furious at 60 Mbps of sustained UDP DDoS counterattack against this business). Their perspective is that I'm just trying to make money off of them with security services. The response I've had repeatedly is "No thank you. We already own a firewall."
I have yet to install hybrid IDS and not have it provide ROI within one year. A good client (another bank) had it three days and it saved them from certain shutdown for a week (which happened to be the week before the auditors came in). Still, a larger Omaha bank chain told me last month that IDS is unnecessary since the Feds just say you need "intrusion detection" - not NIDS/HIDS. So in their eyes, having a $12/hour MCSE hack check a firewall syslog log once a week is "intrusion detection."
Days like that, I curse the fact that I was born honest. I do my best to help the good clients (and spend my own money with them too - you can be sure I don't bank at the places that don't give a damn about security or the confidentiality and integrity of their customers information).
Only a very old rumor about an incident that happened during the Microsoft vs Seattle Computer Products lawsuit (at a very critical stage, SCP's fireproof safe mysteriously had a burning piece of magnesium placed on the top- and the source code for QDOS was lost. Soon afterwards, SCP president and head programmer, Scott Peterson, settled out of court in exchange for a lifetime position at Microsoft).
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Historically, the politicians haven't been exactly fast reacting when the storm clouds are showing up, either...
In the 1920's my country (Sweden) closed down almost all of the defence. When trying to buy weapons when needed, a decade later, the sellers had their order books filled...
Now Sweden has closed down everything. We can only hope that Putin is more democratic than he looks like. :-(
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
> but why doesn't Israel just give the fucking land back?
Because the terrorists don't want just bits and pieces back, they want ALL of Israel and they want ALL of the Jews to leave. No exceptions. That is the explicit stated aim of Hammas - they have repeatedly said that their reign of terror will NEVER end until that happens.
.
Actually, this was taken from the rumor referenced below (though somehow- Bill Gates' goons tearing up Homer Simpson's house is FAR more exciting than a mysterious unsolved breakin and fire that nobody has ever been able to pin to Billy Gates in any way other than the very quick settling of a lawsuit after the fire).
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I think what the previous poster was alluding to is the idea that Israeli policy is more intransigent with billions in US economic and military aid to prop up their economy than it would be without. Whether this is strictly true, or if the Israelis would just suck it in and damn the torpedoes is beside the point: most Israelis and their neighbors assume it's true.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Have you called tech support recently? Or tried to ask a co-worker a question that needs a detailed explanation? Don't discount fluency in English without a TERRIBLE accent; it's worth more than most people realize.
Of course, that makes a racist in most peoples' eyes. Not that I really care what others think, especially when they're the same sort that are only to happy to dispense charity with MY money instead of their own.
I'm sure the Norwegians have plugged the mountain passes up pretty well in the north so Tornio/Oulu is where they'll come for you.
So I looked at the Heritage Foundation's map of Economic Freedom, and you know what countries come out on top?
Places like Sweden. Finland. Canada. Denmark. The Netherlands. The UK. The U.S. and Australia are in this category as well, plus a smattering of smaller countries like Luxembourg, Chile, and Ireland.
Most of these countries have strong social safety nets and workers have extensive and well-established rights. A strong social safety net benefits both society and business, as these countries have figured out.
Throw that away, and you'll have robber baron capitalism, and we know how good that is for a country's standard of living (look at Russia after the fall of the USSR).
Can you name a country that has no social safety net, little government regulation of industry, and at the same time, has a high standard of living? There are a lot of countries that fit the first two criteria, but they're in the third world.
So it does for your foes. But I admit that USA has at this point disprortionately powerful army which is being used in a way unthinkable just a decade ago: an uprovoked war of aggression and occupation.
Historically, the politicians haven't been exactly fast reacting when the storm clouds are showing up, either...
That indeed is a problem and we citizens of the countries in question are the ones that have to stay vigillant and make sure that this does not occur.
As I understand it, just before this latest terrorism mess started up over there, they were willing to give in to almost all of the Palistinian demands.
The fighting between zionists and arabs has been going on since before the state of Israel came into being.
The Israel's gave the Palestinian's self rule in Gaza and Jericho in 1994 after a peace agreement with the intention of a seperate state after five years. The Palestinian's continued attacking the Israel's.
Boths sides has lots of blood on their hands. The BBc has a shortish summary of the last 100 years of this conflict.
If the US didn't support Isreal there would be more chaos. The Israel's have nuclear weapons and will probably use them if it looks like Isreals will be overrun. The USA and Europe don't want millions of Jewish refugees seeking asylum.
The muslims are generally intolerant of other religions and oppress women.
Unthinkable? Oh, come on. Hitler thought of it long ago, and he's just my generation's boogeyman of the ages. Unprovoked wars of aggression and occupation were not invented here.
Except that politicians usually commit their evil deeds in back-room meetings or in the Oval Office. Not on the streets...
It is precisely because of experiences of WWII that most reasonable people thought that civilised democracies, USA in particular, were too enlightened for such a thing. There goes that theory.
"That's what these 4 years have taught me- what have they taught you?"
That people will take Darwin's name in vain.
"The main problem with that idea is that it takes many years to build (outfit, train, etc) a military."
That may be true in cases where the state has no resources of its own. In the years between 1939 and 1945, Canada went from having 3 ships in its navy to possessing the 3rd largest navy in the world. In the first world war, it had over 1,000,000 men and women in uniform - that's 10% of the total population at the time. Every time it's felt the need, Canada has managed to go to a war footing in a remarkably short period of time.
... And that's why I'm skeptical when Americans proclaim that they're protecting us. In major conflicts[*], we've always done a fine job of protecting ourselves, with a fair amount left over to help our neighbours.
[*] It's more than a little ironic that the only foreign invasions Canada has ever faced have come from its southern border. 8^)
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
Actually, I think they do not want them to leave, they want all of them dead. Continueing the work where Hitler left off.
I know references to Hitler are frowned upon, but in this one specific case I believe it is justified.
On my last contract with Juniper Networks, it seemed as if 85% of the IT people were H1 visas. They should pay them the same to avoid outsourcing and keeping the skilled people here. Seems like big companies are just out to save money while screwing up the economy and ruining the job market for americans. What we need is a UNION for the IT fields to ensure balance in the market.
Its not that these criticisms of Israel's actions are all anti-semitic, but the ones that hold Israel accountable to a higher level of performance than the rest of the world *are* fundamentally anti-semitic.
So, lest we lose perspective here:
And those are collateral damage numbers. Unfortunately, they're nothing:
and we won't even get to Syria, Libya, China, etc.
(By some measures China is worse than everyone combined but information is sketchy at best).
No matter how you slice it, on a scale of human-rights abuses, Israel is a pretty minor player. And on the scale of military collateral deaths, Israel is a minor player too. And let's be totally honest: the cash we give Israel prevents something *really bad* from happening: A major war in the middle east. If the balance of power wasn't in Israel's favor there'd be badness on a scale that's off the charts. You'd have MILLIONS dead. So why does everyone want to defund Israel? Are we that bloodthirsty here?
OK so the UN f*cked up and granted them a nation in hostile territory. Its not apprently clear to me who got screwed more in that move, the Jews or the Palestinians. I mean, if you think we should give indiginous peoples back their original lands...then get ready to give the Jews back huge chunks of Vienna, Berlin, Moscow, Frankfurt, Milan, etc.
My three cents.
-Popo
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
That sentence should have read:
The number of innocent civilians killed collaterally during the entire intifada: 3000
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Drill baby drill - on Mars
That people will take Darwin's name in vain.
Steven Gould? Is that you?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You know what I'm amazed by? The people who whinge and moan about lack of quality in their roads, schools, infrastructure, and public services but then go out and vote for whoever will cut taxes the most.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
No whining here, get the state out of property ownership and leave them to their only rightful task: the protection of private property. That means National Defense(defense from outside attackers) and Law Enforcement (defense from those who would steal private property).
Want roads? Pay the market rate. Same for schools, hospitals, malls, sports stadiums and all the other things that are built with stolen money for "the good of the public"
At the bottom of the endless pile of paper work which characterizes all regulation lies a gun.
Alan Greenspan
Bill Clinton made an offer that would have paid off the Palestinians with over $2000 for each man, woman, and child. That may not seem like a lot to you, but it's a fortune to these people.
Some found such to be a kind of bribary and a bit offensive. Money cannot solve all problems.
Table-ized A.I.
A "Blast Radius"?
That's why you "shoot first and often". Dead-Man's switch means nothing when you're a few hundred feet away.
Not that you could really do that in most situations what with bystanders.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
... and you cleverly neglected to mention that this land was divdied into hundreds of "bantustans" criss-crossed with Israeli roads and settlements, some of them completely isolated from each other, that this "sovereign" state was to be subject to israeli military "border" patrols and that some people would have to cross the border to go to school or a grocery store. Other then that, it was a steal of a deal and that nasty old Arafat was just a party pooper.
In turn, the Israeli government subsidizes a sizable fraction of the economy. As of 1999, about one-third of all gainfully employed Israelis worked directly for various branches of government. This does not include the military.
So in many cases, the decision to continue doing something in an area of high terrorism is a political and strategic one, not an investment decision. Even if something doesn't make economic sense, it may be subsidized anyway. In particular, the "settlements" movement is heavily subsidized.
This isn't necessarily bad, but any comparison with the US economy has to take that into account.
As other people have noted, people like Israel homeowners in the settlements are quite heavily armed.
There is not much reason to own a gun (unless you hunt or use it for sport) but if there were a lot of attacks on US individuals obviously the culture would shift in such a way as to bring forth a dramatic increase in gun ownership.
Of course, you may not think the point is obvious but there we'll have to agree to disagree, since the evidence is there in Israel.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If we were to have that kind of daily terrorism, do you really think you'd still be able to buy a rifle?
You are acting like whatever laws were in place at the time would hold any relvance to the population at large. If there is sufficient demand for anything there will be supply. See: Prohibition, War on Drugs. If those did not work why would a complete ban on weapons?
Furthermore the people who seem most openly opposed to terrorism (in terms of instituting laws like the Patriot act) right now are also mostly aligned with the NRA. Would you disagree? So how would it follow that a strengthening of the Patriot act do anything to stop gun ownership? I don't see the path to that happening.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Do you drive on roads and highways? Do you flush your toilet? This libertarian ideal is as unrealistic as communism. Government spending has driven so many benneficial projects in our society. The Marshall plan rebuilt Europe and prevented them from turning to less American friendly forms of government such as Communism. Rural electrification allowed the country to bring every region of the country into the modern era which helped the creation of more Businesses. There are projects that need to be done for the good of the community and advancement of society that are simply to expensive or not deemed profitable for the private sector.
Public Education was necessary as Education was too expensive for the majority of the popluation. However, an educated society is what gave america a competetive advantage. Private education is becoming more realistic option to modern Americans. However, It is tragic to live in a country were some one can not get an education because they can not afford it. My parents worked as a teacher and a nurse. They could never afford to send us to a private college. However, my sisters and I all got degrees from public universities. I made more in my first year out of college than my father did after 20 years of teaching. I may send my kids to private school because I can afford it. I am a product of the public education system and so are the majority of Americans.
I pay my taxes and am proud of it because I know it is helping every one in this country. We are all products of the system we grew up in. The majority of American depend on these systems and have used them to get a hand up in society. If you don't love America then leave it.
Let the self designated "chosen ones" stand on their own.
Of course there are some good observations and conclusions there, but the big picture is ignored.
Think about setting the clock back 15 years, and replacing every occurrance of 'Israel' with 'South Africa', 'Palestinians' with 'Black Africans', 'Hamas/militants' with 'African National Congress', and 'Zionists/Zionism' with 'Apartheid'. Now, how does that look to you?
Some influential factions in America is often fascinated with Israel, putting it as a model for survival against adversity.
This fascination turned into infatuation, and even idolization.
Have a terrorism problem? Let us get Israel's oppressive tactics for profiling males of Middle Eastern origin!
Bungled up Iraq? Let us get Israel's expertise and make Falluja a prison for its residents!
Trade? Let us pressure Arab countries to signe the QIZ agreement that exempts their products from US duties if there is 11% of it made in Israel!
Foreign policy? The Zionist Neo-cons, the exterme religious right, and the plain greedy made sure that Israel is the pillar of our policy. Some for Jesus' second coming, others for loyalty, and others for the almightly buck!
Double standards? UN resolutions are used against Iraq and applied to the letter, but UN resolutions against Israel for half a century are never applied, and others are blocked.
This, among other factors, has made America hated in most of the world today, after being admired.
This infatuation has to end, or it can contribute to the demise of the American Empire.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Drill baby drill - on Mars
i dont think stating that the indians who work for all the call centers now have terrible accents is racist. although i think the main discussion is about programmers, for which you dont need to open your mouth (except to eat. and drink. anyways) i think companies will notice customer satisfaction falling when tech support becomes even more useless. its one thing calling up TS and having a moron who doesnt know a mouse from a keyboard talk shit, but when you cant even understand what theyre fucking saying, well that goes too far. not to mention the last cold caller i got had an accent thicker than your average redneck's skull. i hung up. i would have done that anyway, but perhaps this incoherence will decrease the number of morons who perpetuate that evil by responding. i wonder if there is a way to outsource spam to people that cant speak english properly....
are you saying jews and christians arent intolerant of other religions too? they may have (mostly) got over the opressing women thing, but that doesnt necessarily make them any better than other religious loonies.
I mean if you want a road, than you, or a group of your buddies, or a company of roadbuilders should own and develop the land and charge what the market will bear.
Perhaps you mean pay for them through taxation on petrol. If so, fine. I agree 100% with you there.
Assuming I accept a central authority, which I'm loathe to, you're absolutely right, a fuel tax is probably the most equitable. Roads wear through a combination of miles and weight - as each increase the wear on the surface increases. Since fuel usage generally tracks parallel to those statistics, it's the most reasonable way to assess use fees.
Taxes are not "stolen money."
IMHO, the only difference between a robber putting a gun in your face, and the state doing so is one of semantics - one is "theft" the other is "taxation". We may have to disagree here as I see all taxes as paid at gunpoint.
they are the only way of doing so in a fair, equitable and effective way
There is no "fair and equitable" way to take money from one man and give it to another - the latter profits at the former's expense.
There's no way the taxpayer should fund privately owned businesses be they quality-of-life-busting supermarket chains like Wal Mart or leeches like professional sports 'franchises.'
Excepting the words "quality of life busting", which I don't see as universal, amen...
In the end, I accept that anarcho-capitalism is as unrealistic as any of the collectivist dreams, I see it more like lifting weights in front of an old Arnold poster - any gain is a good thing, but keep pushing toward the ideal...
At the bottom of the endless pile of paper work which characterizes all regulation lies a gun.
Alan Greenspan
Hamas is a group that is only supported by a minority of palestinians, although that minority grows with every palestinian child killed by highly trained israeli snipers (accidents, honest!)
the perpetrators of genocide are the israelis who believe they have a divine right to the so called holy land. the world would be a lot more peaceful if all you morons just accepted that god doesnt exist. too late for billions of people, but i suppose i might forgive you.
into cuba after we put jupiters with nukes into turkey and after the CIA had botched a few assassination attempts against Castro.. Not that that makes castro and russia (sovs whatever) back then nice guys or anything.
History has these picky details sometimes.
As to russia not being belligerent, they have a past history of expansionism, and also external and internal genocide, and several defectors swear that "the collapse of the soviet union" is part of a very long term strategy to lull the west into complacency. I think there's something to that, although not "all" the reasons for it.
Personally, I give it better than even odds that russia and china will launch a fairly massive and coordinated pre emptive attack on the US (and some selected targets in other nations like nuke bases/assets in the UK and France for instance) before any rational and successful anti missile shield gets put into place by the US.
Long involved subject, and eventually I think russia and china will go at each other as well, but I think this century will be the century for wars over planetary resources, because there's only "enough" for x- very small number billions of people, say 2 maybe, not 6-10 billion. Just the data that's available I think shows that to be highly probable.
its lucky it didnt then, since that would have been a lie.
Personally, I'm seeing some movement in certain IT shops away from offshore outsourcing and back to hiring US workers only. The reason I hear (from other management) a lot is that the pure hourly rate was less overseas but other issues made up for the difference and in the end it was about a wash. The other issues seemed to be:
1) More accurate time estimates
2) Better understanding of what the customer really wanted (regardless of what the written business requirements were.. yea, yea but it is reality folks)
3) Culture and language match is better which aids communication
4) UTC offset (Time zone difference) is a productivity killer where back and forth communication is needed.
no parts of those cities were ever independent jewish states though, were they? there are still jews living in those cities, and jews are welcome to move in any time they like. not to mention, if you want to talk indigenous, all the jews living in those cities (except converts, i suppose) were the descendants of immigrants. and of course, if you go back far enough, everyone in europe is an immigrant, come from africa (unless of course you believe in creationism, in which case this is where i laugh very hard and hit you with something). giving lands back to indigenous peoples is something that can be taken too far, and no one who matters seriously has the aim of giving control of the entire state of israel to palestine. the pre 1967 borders are sufficient, and fair. if israel hadnt been too greedy to accept the oslo agreement, the middle east would (probably) be peaceful right now.
And exactly how do you imagine that guns will stop suicide bombings??
My parents worked in the Defence industry... too bad they were 'expendable' after the Cold War. Of course, they were delighted to stop designing things that killed people, and happy to retire.
Ever see the movie "Falling Down"?
Table-ized A.I.
Not to comment on the validity of any of your points, but '39-'45 is six years, and I don't think any future big wars will last six years. Heck, maybe not even 2 weeks. How this applies, I dunno. Just sayin'.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
we are all competing for resources and social status. If I elect to buy a more expensive American made product, then I have less money left over for other things, such as rent.
Right now my govt is allowing countries with a much lower standard of living to compete with me for labor. If I buy the expensive American car (or the cheap outsourced software, etc) I may have to live in a hovel because the better homes are going to the people who bought the cheap Asian car, and they have more money now than I do. So they outcompete me, outbid me on the good house.
But if my govt makes a law to outlaw such competition, then everyone will have to buy the more expensive American product, and I no longer am forced to compete by finding the cheap overseas product. Now everyone buys the more expensive product and has less money left over, so the other resources such as housing get less money thrown at them. I can now afford a nice house, and I do not have to live in the hovel (all other things being equal).
There is also one other consequence of my govt outlawing this labor arbitrage--there are now more jobs in America, so there is more tax revenue, which we could use to improve infrastructure, social services, offer universal healthcare, etc.
Sometimes, it helps to actually think for yourself.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Subject says it all. Not even /. is immune from the moron PropaZionists.
Sheesh.
And Palestine was also never (in recent times) an independent state either. Israel was given to then Israeli's by the English, and for hundreds of years before English rule it was occupied by the Ottomans. (Who by the way were *far* worse oppressors than the English and the Israeli's combined. The Ottomans did not kid around). I mean if you're going to go back that far you have to acknowlege that the number of years since Palestine was sovreign is many many more than since the Iroquois Nation, the Apache Nation and the Hopi Nation were sovreign.
Arabs live freely in Israel too. And vote. And are members of the parliament.
And I have to say (although this is a point that I'm somewhat loathe to make) that in our society land is fairly won and lost in war. It is the way France, Germany, Sweden, the U.S. and every other country has had territories decided. The 1967 war *against Israel* was a defensive war for Israel and was started by the Arab Nation. Israel won and quite frankly, she gets what she gets. The moral for the Arab Nation should probably be: Think you might lose some territory in a war? Don't start one then.
And your comment about "Israel being to greedy to accept the Oslo agreement" is so hilariously backwards it makes the room spin. I guess you don't know much about Oslo. Even Prince Bandar said "The blood of palestine will be on your shoulders Arafat". The whole friggin Arab League was pissed off as all hell at Arafat and cut stipends the same year. You might be the only person alive who thinks Arafat didn't throw that meeting.
I'm no pro-Israeli really, but I have to say that the Palestinians haven't done jack-shit to build a nation, make peace or unify their society. There will never ever ever ever be peace as long as there are armed militias within that society. And as long as there are leaders who refuse to disarm them, there will be bloody war and no Palestinian state.
The fact is even if Arafat had *accepted* at Oslo, there would still be Hamas. And now instead of Israel occupying Palestine, you'd have open war between Israel and the Sovreign State of Palestine, which would be much much worse. The problem is Hamas and extremism. And there can be NO parallel between military operations to prevent terrorism, and the blowing up of schoolbuses, murder of olympic athletes, and bombs in restaurants.
I'm for a Palestinian State -- next to Israel (not 'instead of Israel'). But first there has to be disarmamant and a centralisation of Palestinian military power under the PA. Then there has to be a retraction of the claimed "Right of Return". Ain't gonna happen, no way. And then Israel is going to have to part no matt
Until then, if I were Israel, I'd keep my tanks parked in Jenin.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Simple, if you see a guy coming at you with a visible vest full of dynamite - shoot! Hard to argue with that logic.
I already said it wasn't very applicable to real-life situations.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Actually, the bulk of the Israeli people aren't religious loonies. The religious loonies living there don't support Israel, because the messiah hasn't come yet. Besides, Israel exists because of the secular Jewish people who were willing to take up arms and fight for their cause, not the ultra-religious ones. (Yes, I said fight. Sure, the UN did pass a resolution officially creating the country, but they still had to fight for their independence after the paperwork was signed.)
While I certainly agree with you that libertarian principles are no match for reality (though Seth Finkelstein put it more eloquently), I have a minor quibble. Gatto has argued that the importation of public education from Germany was designed to reinforce the divide between the rich and the poor, and has only recently become a staple among the middle class. Before this, he mentions home schooling as the healthy status quo (although I have no idea how he gets his literacy numbers).
Certainly, public education has come to perform a critical role in today's economy. In fact, in the population center of bleeding red Republican Kansas, we have some of the best school districts out there. Public ones. The only real private schools are the parochial schools for Catholics and the like. These would be the people crying out against evolution in our schools, who have difficulties reconciling their faith with the biological theories that are required reading if their students wish to enter state Universities.
My one question to you is, if public schools have done you so well, why wouldn't you send your children to the same?
I Browse at +4 Flamebait
Open Source Sysadmin
The Palestinians and Israelis live in different areas.
The checkpoints are only in the Palestinian territories, when going from one Palestinian town to another, or when entering Israel proper.
We made the first move: we let the Palestinians set up an autonomous government in the territories. And then the Palestinians made their first move: they used this opportunity to set up a launch pad for terrorist attacks against us. We will not be making a second move any time soon.
As I mentioned in another recent Slashdot headline, Ed Yourdon is our modern day chicken little. He made a zillion dollars selling books and talking about how we were all going to die when Y2K hit. He was wrong on all counts. Now he's looking for his next paycheck. Don't buy into this quack.
Well, apparently bombing out the infrastructure takes 2 weeks, but subduing the population still takes time. As long as the Cannucks have a good stash of explosives and RPGs, they should be able to hold out just fine.
Isreal and India would be near the top of any such list.
Ask a business man to invest tons of money in those troubled areas: open factories, what ever. They'll look at you like you've lost your mind.
Yet the same hard nosed exporters of jobs have no hesitation in sending business critical functions out to areas of the world that could turn to nuclear vapor any time.
It don't make sense, but that's management.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
To answer your question, Israel feels no obligation to hand the land back because they are an oppressive regime armed to the teeth by the USA and can literally get away with murder.
If that was really the case, Palistine would be nuked into the ground. I don't necessarily see any one side as all good or all bad. I just think that being the more educated and sophisticated civalization (at this point), Israel should take the high-ground and sacrifice a little more. I expect a little more civility from an "educated people", I guess.
They perhaps have a "right" to the disputed land (depending on interpretation), but excercising that right it causing a lot of problems in the world. Let the thief take the goddam TV set and move on. The TV ain't worth the life of your family and neighbors even if you rightfully own it. Be pig-headed martyrs over something more important than mere strips of deseart.
Table-ized A.I.
s/reality/sensible irony
s/business world/slashdot
Keep fightin'.
Yo Spanky, Six Day War ring a bell? Pushing the Jews into the ocean to die? They all must die?
If I were Israel I'd tell everybody to fuck off, finish building my wall, then electrify the damned thing.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Race baiters and Jew haters now. Hey guys, DU is ---> that way.
1) so what? If they can't ship the worker here they can ship the job to India.
2) So what? were you planning on working in a job that requires a clearance? How many of those are there? How many of those exclude foreign nationals?
evil is as evil does
What you didn't get subsiddized student loans, work study programs, subsidized state tuition, and pell grants?
Get back to me when you actually pay for your education.
evil is as evil does
Without getting into the politics of the middle-east conflict, nor taking sides, the book shows both technology and business managers how they can deal with the most adverse of situations. well you can start by writing a book how the Palestinians deal with occupation? Just using the word 'terrorism' is siding with the Isrealis
I went to a state school, which subsidized my tuition with oil money.
I got pretty much nothing else. I worked two jobs to get through school.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Waiting so long would be a nice luxury to have... :-)
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Yes. And listened to "Man on the Edge" by Iron Maiden off "The X Factor". Very appropriate. Been there myself. -WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
Sharon is a crook too. He's as bent as a broken stick.
What reason? How about because I don't want a Palestinian blowing himself up in the US because he watched a tank (paid for with American dollars) mow down his house with his family still inside.
The only difference between the Israelis and Palestinians is the money Israel gets from the US. If we gave the PLO 3 billion a year they would roll their tanks into Tel Aviv and the Israelies would be blowing up buses on the West Bank.
P.S. Egypt currently isn't using its armed forces to murder people between its borders, so the amount of aid we give them is moot.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
1. I can think of lots of tech jobs that cannot easily be exported. Just one example: field service techs.
2. Most jobs that require clearances exclude foreign nationals. Just find a random defense contractor and look at their job listings.
Keep in mind that the grandparent asked a specific question, and I answered it. It's like an existence proof: you succeed if you find a single example.
Israelis have no choice, they are forced to live in that environment.. Worse case scenerio is not surviving. Here, people can survive without working => plenty of land / animals => food.
Just say no to license servers!!
I don't have any guns around now, but I grew up around them and am pretty comfortable with them.
I think somehow you have my opinion on the matter on the other side... personally I would find it pretty funny to see Honda Accords with gun racks, and I'm sure that some people already have them that I've never seen!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1) Almost nothing is serviced in the field anymore. Some things are but they are dwindling fast.
2) Not really true. Only ones needing top secret or above, even then there are exceptions for example look at kissinger, Brzezinski, chalabi etc.
evil is as evil does
Did you get low interest student loans? did you get any pell grants? Were you working at work study jobs?
Since you answered yes to state school you can no longer claim you paid for your own education. The taxpayers paid for most of it. If you answered yes to any of the above questions then you payed even less of a percentage.
My guess is that you paid something like 20% of the cost of your education. The rest was paid with taxpayers money.
Oh and I forgot. You parents paid nothing? Not even for food or rent or anything?
evil is as evil does
If the intifada was such an effective money earner, why did the Palestinian Authority spend over $300M on tourism infrastructure for Bethlehem 2000? That's a huge proportion of the budget to waste of a 3rd world country, corruption or no corruption, when you're about to launch a major military campaign.
The historical fact is that the intifada was a spontaneous reaction to a heavy-handed Israeli police massacre of rioters in the holy of holies in September 2000. Subsequently rioters were killed across the West Bank and Gaza. It was weeks before a single Israeli was killed. This is hardly the pre-planned uprising that supporters of Israel like to think happened to their generous offers of "peace".
Since the mid 1980s the PLO negotiation position has been simple - peace is possible on 22% of historical Palestine. Those 22% were occupied by Jordan and Egypt in 1948, and by Israel in 67. An independent state is not feasable without access to ground water, airspace or international borders. Although Israel produced no maps for the 95% of the 22%, their plan was not to create an independent state, but a dependency of Israel with borders controlled by Israel, able to provide cheap labour, but without having to give those workers the vote in Israel. The capital of "Palestine" was to be Abu Dis, a dusty little village on the edge of Jerusalem. That way, Arafat was to be able to tell his people that the capital of their state was "Jerusalem". He never was much good with maps.
Fast forward to today, unenployment is around 60% in the terroitories, it's impossible to travel to other cities, Israel is closed to migrant workers, Jordan has closed its borders to Palestinians for fear of a revolt amongst its own Palestinian population, the PA is barely functioning, and the UN and international aid are the only thing preventing starvation. In some cities Israeli conter-terror has killed large numbers of civillians and destroyed homes and farms, whereas other cities have been relativly untouched. Israeli settlements are expaning on the ground, though the US is happy with that because they can dismiss the pheonomenon as "natural growth". Ten percent per anum is the natural growth Jewish settlements are allowed, though Arab towns, which are far more populated, are allowed 0%. I'm sure it has something to do with terror, though I can't think what. Egypt uses Israel as a distraction to divert attention from its own domestic problems. Israel has swapped from using Palestinian migrant labour to using Philipino and Eastern European. Total mess. I'll be going back again this year.
I read the Rupert Murdoch piece on Arafat, which appears to have 2 sources: Israeli intelligence, and a Palestinian banker who fell out with the PA. That's not journalism, it's rehashing press releases. I'm not defending Arafat, just holding out for some serious investigation.
Is there any point posting responses to AC's?
Actually, if you look at what Palestinians have done to build a nation, it's not bad. Unlike Syria or Lebanon, they have multiple political parties which cut across ethnic lines. You can talk politics without being arrested. Despite each city being sealed, the trash usually gets emptied, kids get to school, hospitals still run, people still celebrate holidays, get married, sports teams still play (though they can't compete with teams from other cities), universities still run. This is with unemployment in the 60% area because of closure (many Palestinians worked in Israel pre intifada). I know Palestinians who've left the US a couple of years ago because it's "no place to bring up kids".
I'm not going to bother with your other points. "Might is right" is a philosophical position you can't argue with: you just have to fight.
injuns
Consider that, before 1967, jews could not go and pray to the temple wall in Jerusalem. It was not about waiting 3 hours at some checkpoint. When israel was then attacked, they took the whole of jerusalem city and people could go to the temple for the first time of their lives. I am not religion oriented, but for jews, there is only one holy site: the temple wall. They cannot just give it away and be denied access ever after. I find it funny that muslims are claiming so many holy sites and cities all over middle east and persia. Why did they build the al-aqsa mosque right above the temple site? Why did talibans blast an historic buddha in afghanistan? Why do they wish to deny access to al-aqsa to non-muslims? That does not seem very fair, and shows lots of intransigeance. Israel gave back the Sinai (a huge territory compared to israel) to Egypt, and more recently Taba (where an hotel was bombed even more recently). What other country gave back territory seized in in battle from its attacker? They made quite a few concessions already, to no avail. Israelis are weary to give away more territory because it may represent just one more step to being pushed out to the mediterranean. Palestinians may be victims of the all-or-nothing attitude of their rulers.
"the people most heavily hurt from an economic perspective are the many Palestinian workers who -- before the intifada started -- had good jobs in Israel. The severe cutbacks in many firms resulted in Palestinian workers losing their jobs as a direct result of terrorist activities by their compatriots."
Another gloss over the actual cause of terrorism in the Middle East - Israel itself...
As many younger Israelis are already doing - leading to Israel doing extraordinary things to try to entice immigrants and retain citizens - Israelis need to pack up and leave. It's over. The Zionist dream is cracked and bleeding. You are not going to rule the Middle East from the Nile to the Euphrates. Forget about it.
If you don't, sooner or later one (or more) of your 100-200 nuclear weapons is going to get hijacked and used on Tel Aviv... It's inevitable...
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
None of that makes America a desrable place to live. High degrees of capitalism and freedom is what makes America a desirable place to live.
Then again, those of us who invested responsibly continue to do well.
Mexico is a second-world nation. It is a second world nation because of decades of socialist policies that many Slashdot posters are fond of.
Efficient business is a metastable position. Even assuming an organization is lean-n-mean from top to bottom, once the execs start slacking off, the lower echelons start catching wind of it and the normal backlash starts.
Efficiency is an easy sell to the autocrat, but such organizations are filled with misery at any rate, and there must always be some overhead costs incurred by oversight methods (cameras, security people, HR "disciplinarians", etc.). Overhead=inefficiency.
Efficiency is not only overrated, but it is treated in such a buzzword-y fashion that I can only surmise that it is a lingering business derangement.
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
He wasn't in any way justifying "Might is Right". Specifically in the case of the 1967 war it was certainly the Arabs who had the more powerful armies and economies and were trying to make "Might" into "Right".
Only one country in the Middle East even uses the concept of "Right" in courts, with a constitution, a bill of rights, a jury, etc.
I agree with your points about Palestinian freedoms. I think we can safely say that none of which would exist without Israel since none of Palestine's neighboring nations share them. Ironically Palestinian culture has benefited enormously from its close ties to Israel.
Those who try to interfere with who I trade or contract with all need to be killed.
I mean, if you think we should give indiginous peoples back their original lands...then get ready to give the Jews back huge chunks of Vienna, Berlin, Moscow, Frankfurt, Milan, etc.
Actually the one thing you cant fault the post war Germans on is their attitude towards restitution of property. They have given back stolen land / goods / money - and vast amounts of compensation too.
Okay. I have been to Israel. I am Jewish. I think that the Palestinians should be given their land back.
But clearly you do not understand the whole picture.
There are issues of The Right of Return for Palestinian exiles, say.
There is the issue of whether the region is a Two State solution or a One State, although Two State is almost definitely the case that will happen.
There is the issue of how to deal with some amazingly fanatical Right Wing Jewish Settlers who illegally occupy that land. This is but to touch on some of the issues.
But the BIGGEST issue that is ALWAYS discussed is that, with ALL these suicide bombings and murders, if the land is given back under these current conditions, it will APPEAR to validate terrorism and the demonisation of the Jewish state Israel, as a successful negotiating tactic. Because that, is what Israel and the World cannot afford to let happen. Then whenever someone had a Beef, this could be a resort, and not even the last one.
So your solution is quite simplistic and completely flawed. Never mind that I disagree about yor view of their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
But the BIGGEST issue that is ALWAYS discussed is that, with ALL these suicide bombings and murders, if the land is given back under these current conditions, it will APPEAR to validate terrorism and the demonisation of the Jewish state Israel, as a successful negotiating tactic. Because that, is what Israel and the World cannot afford to let happen. Then whenever someone had a Beef, this could be a resort, and not even the last one.
I see all these people talking about validating terrorism. Wasn't it the terrorism of the Stern Gang et al (blowing up the king David Hotel etc.) that brought about the birth of Israel in the first place?
Wasn't that validating terrorism?
>The number of innocent civilians killed in the Ivory Coast (by French forces) this year: 18,000
/., but where the hell did you get that figure from? I've googled, I've googled, I've googled, and can't find any supporting evidence for it.
I know French-bashing is still very much en vogue on
AFAIK, the French have a very limited deployment there, as active peacekeepers, with a proper UN mandate, to keep a ceasefire in a long and bloody civil war.
no taxation without representation!
Excuse me, I work for a Fortune 500 company that has contracts, but isn't producing because they just hired a bunch of Mexicans who don't speak the language, but come at $10/hr, where the minimum cost of living to live in an apartment with drug dealers, 1 murder, several sexual assaults on children, and a rash of burglaries (or alternatively, up the road, in a slum apartment with continuous drug dealers, "bloods 4 ever", and all the residents threatened) costs $12/hr.
The manager claims that blacks there don't want to work -- note that though his implication is that blacks are lazy, in reality the manager is racist. I spoke with blacks who turned down that job, and they don't want to work for the same reason I don't want to work: the company doesn't pay enough to live.
For me, I was transferred there, but I'm taking home $104/day, minus $60 of transportation costs. That adds up, doesn't it? Figure out what I make after taxes, and don't forget 3 hrs of driving (8+3=11 hrs). It comes to about $3.30/hr.
Oh, yes -- I'm new at the plant, but the rumor that I've been hearing that some of the Mexican workers have to keep coming up with new names, and the manager knows it. Now, don't say "report it" -- rumors are not reportable, and I also feel badly for the Mexicans who are similarly oppressed (but worse) both at home and away. What would cause me to report it would be gross contract violations against them, such as not paying them (which other contractors in my region have been doing. Take them halfway across the country, 'to Chicago', saying 'it's a new job, we'll pay you when we arrive', and drop them off in Iowa without money or anything.)
But this sum total situation being the case, I don't think that the solution is going to be deregulation. Nor do I think that the problem is workers who are too expensive. I think that the problem is stockholders and managers that are too greedy, and that there is no solution.
Quite simply, I think that this country is going to go down the tubes, because our sins have caught up with us.
Our government, after world war II, launched into the religion of consumerism with a bang, expecting that it would make the infrastructure strong. They got us into "keeping up with the Joneses", and "fear of poverty", and so now we are seeing unrestricted greed that empowers theives, liars, and connivers, and that is what is going to destroy us.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Oh, yes. All this time I was working for this Fortune 500 company, on an 80 million dollar, 400 employee job, I and most other workers' families were also on Food Stamps and qualified for AFDC (this is all welfare) because our wages were so low, working 60 hrs per week.
Actually, I think part of the answer *is* to eliminate welfare, because the powerful suck it up like everything else. But it won't happen, for that very reason. You think a weak player is going to take something from a powerful player? Right.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
I have a hard time sympathising with Israel as a victim of terrorism. IMHO it is just karma at this point, you cant expect to violently oppress some part of the population and expect them to lie down and take it.
There are some religious fanatics maybe in Palastine, but the sort of collective punishment Israel dishes out is not befitting a soverign country.
Quite naive, as israel trys 'targeted assassination', with collateral damage in civilians, which cannot improve any party's standing.
Besides there seems to be no shortage of suicide bombers. In fact, palestinian schools are lauding suicide bombers to impressionable kids, which helps provide tomorrow's cannon fodder.
Unfortunately, there is no end in sight
Is there an army of displaced people living in refugee camps outside Berlin, Vienna, Warsaw or Milan?
... Heavens crickey I'm just considering what if the Nazis had actually won ...
Not to shed Israels politics in a nice light, but to answer your question:
No there is no army of displaced people outside of Berlin nor outside of New York City. In fact, the Nazis did a pretty good job at swiftly killing off or - in few rare cases - chasing away a mean seven digit number (something between 3.5 and 5.5 Million) of otherwise-would-be-displaced. As did the pioneers with native americans. But they took a century of time. The Nazi only needed a decade. Ponder that for a minute.
Latent middle east religious fanatisim on both sides aside, imagine a technologically sophisticated extreme religiously fanatic nazi-regime in the middle east today. You don't really think that they would've put up with this "hassle"? A few camps with furnaces and a nifty chemical would have a definite "Endloesung" completed by 2010. No more problems. Appropriately enough today Adolf Hitler is a big hero amongst arbian religous fanatics. As if he would wasted a second of considering an alternative to plowing the middle east or any other arabian nation of 'lower humans' under ASAP.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Parent poster said:
Kicked our red, white and blue asses, too. We don't mention those non-wars in our history classes much, either.
Rumor has it you bastards even have a Canadian Navy sub in a shopping mall somewhere
Meanwhile, here's an Iraqi viewpoint on the whole war thing. When in doubt, ask the victims what they think of the change in management.
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
The World Trade Center has special signifcance as a target in the way a random office building in Israel does not. That's why the occupancy rate will be lower.
And that's why the WTC has to be rebuilt anyway.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Would the US stand by and do nothing if Canada were invaded? How about England or Spain? I doubt that the only reason Canadian or European companies are successful is just because the US would defend their countries.
England, Spain and Canada do not need defending from invasion. The USA's army isnt a defensive force at all. It is an Imperialist Army. The last 100 years of American history has been one of warfare. The USA has been involved in wars of aggression, save the two WW of infighting in post-colonial europe. The world needs to fear invasion FROM the USA.
The U.S. spends about 5% of GDP on military (including pizza delivery in places like the Indian Ocean), while Canada and Europe spend far less (2%?).
Sure. Right. Good.
Europe and Canada have high tax burdens compared to the U.S. Think how much higher those tax burdens would be if those countries were spending 5%+ of their GDP on their militaries. That might not cause many of their companies to fail, but it surely wouldn't help any of them succede!
Why would we? So we can invade foreign nations? Most of the West has decided it no longer has the stomach for warfare. That fighting for territory is insane on such a small and interconnected planet. Who exactly is the "THEM" that you are afraid of? Further, for instance, if Americans include health-services as part of their tax bill (as an exercise) you will discover you are the most highly taxed. We pay higher taxes, but receive far more social welfare service as 'compensation'. Shhhhs, dont tell everyone.. but it sure is a neat little trick isnt it eh?
One way to look at this is that the U.S. taxpayer is subsidizing the socialist economies of the West by providing their defense.
DEFENSE FROM WHOM? This is pure jingo-warmonger fantasy. The USA dosnt create reality -- this is complete neocon nonsense. Our Socialist Democracies dont receive subsidy from US defense. IN FACT(!) the behaviour of the USA has caused nations (china, brazil, india) need to continue to spend as they do instead of writing treaties, organizing bodies and making a transition to a Army-Free future for the planet (a para-military police force controlled by the UN is the sole Army necessary (if we all agree to not build armies, you wont need to defend yourself from anyone.. get it?))
It's an open question whether those countries could maintain their social programs and provide for their own defense if we didn't keep them dry under our umbrella. The fact that they are right now having to cut back their social programs and taxes to save their economies suggests that they would be forced to choose between guns or butter if we left them on their own.
Our economies are not in imminent Peril. What are you dreaming about? Take a look at the state of the US economy. Low dollar. Growing unemployment. A collusive and corrupt plutocratic government who has an interest in undermining international labour, environmental, safety and health standards for their paymasters. Multi-Nationals are running wild over the planet and USING the USA as host. When they are finally reigned in, the USA's domestic population will be in for the largest shock. Inspite of mccarthy propaganda Economic Planning is necessary for a community to chart a course of long-term stability and prosperity. When the USA realizes that its "leaders" are taking them for a ride -- and when your economy collapses (think 1930's depression) -- will your citizens consider JUST FOR ONCE that youve been fed a bill of goods? What do you think causes the US dollar to slide 30% in 24 months? Household debt hightest on the planet? A stable and bright economic future? Think again.
So, we pay for the Canadians and the Europeans to have a fancy ``social safety net'', then they laugh at us because we don't have one, and insult us because we have a big military.
Utter nonsense.
Maybe we should let those sleazeballs on the Continen
I can pay American taxes....
The author's comparison of Congressional inaction vis a vis the US dependence on oil to outsourcing jobs is an interesting one. It's quite clear that the reason for the US dependence on oil is so great is that the price of oil is so low. In fact, for most of the time since the Carter administration, it has been so low that it was too expensive to take it out of the ground in the US. The analogy, then should not be Congressional inaction, but rather what are the economics to the owners and what are US workers trying to sell? Not every decision that company executives make is based on price. Some are actually based on value. This is not to say that companies always operate in an ethical manner. For example, many companies accept TIF and other tax incentives to establish a local business. They really ought to be accountable for direct losses to the economy when they terminate the agreement before the local investment pays off. The owners should not escape with their shirts in these circumstances. Let's not forget. The reason the "state" provides limited liability to corporations is because there is a complex 3-way contract involved between consumer, employee and owner. Such a contract is too complex to be managed fully by common law. At the moment, laws and courts do seem to favor the owner. It will change again.
"If all the American people want is security, let them live in prisons." Eisenhower
The problem is that Bush wants to push for even MORE nuclear weapons. Including easily transportable "battlefield nukes". Look at how terrorists have hit us inside the "green zone" in Iraq. If we have nukes on a battlefield, we risk losing them to the terrorists.
The only way to prevent that is to end nuclear proliferation NOW.
IF terrorists ever detonate a nuke in one of our cities, they will have gotten it because of our current policies/practices.
THAT is the problem.He was a 3rd world, tin-pot dictator who couldn't even travel across his own country and had to maintain multiple doubles because of assassination fears.
The only reason he was a "threat" to anyone is because of the US's past actions.
The US supported Saddam and even funded his chemical/biological weapons program via "agricultural grants" during the Iraq/Iran war because the US would rather see a secular Saddam slaughter Kurds than see Iraq become an Islamic theocracy like Iran.
Look up the Shah of Iran and the US's involvement and the hostages and President Carter to get an idea of the actual situation. The US LOVED Saddam then. And he was doing the exact same things he was doing that the US used to "justify" his removal.After Gulf War I, Bush the Elder "supported" an uprising in Iraq, but then didn't supply any funding, weapons, troops or anything else.
Bush the Elder did this because the uprising was tied to Islamic clerics who had left Iraq and were living in Iran.
Bush the Elder felt that a secular Saddam was better than another Iranian-style theocracy.
It isn't about getting Iraqi support for a new government....
It's about getting Iraqi support for a new pro-American secular government.Welcome to US politics.
Sadly, the typical US citizen doesn't even remember what happened in Iraq/Iran 20 years ago nor do they have an interest in being educated.
It is much easier to just unload ordinance on the problem and then blame those ungrateful wretches if they don't immediately become US-style consumers.
Look at all the hatred spewed at Germany and France. Look at all the hatred still being spewed at Germany and France.
That hatred results in a demand for better weapons to make sure we can defend ourselves.
If terrorists get nukes in the future, it will be because of our current policies/practices. Only we will be to blame and only we can prevent it.
To be fair, that was when war was a lot simpler. Of course, you can still use infantry as cannon-fodder, World War X style (or as the vietnamese did with quite some success), but it is generaly better to have highly skilled proffesionals, even on the ground.
Navy- and airforce-wise spoken, there is no alternative. On the ground you can get away with guerilla tactics, but this already assumes the enemy has largely conquered you. However, non-top-notch ships and fighter don't have any chance today. And you don't develop a fighter in 5 years, like in World War II. The construction of an Aegis cruiser alone takes about 5 years, let alone testing and designing, let alone designing its weapons.
To remain on topic: we (europe) are grateful for what the Americans did for us in the Cold War and World War II. Although we didn't forget, unlike you Americans seem to, that America didn't do _anything_ unless it was attacked by the Japanese (except "commie" Roosevelt). The US also tends to forget that Hitler declared war to the US, not the inverse.
Something the Americans are forgetting; the cold war is done. It is now America that scares us, if you have a leader who believes he is sent by God himself.
It isn't good to make assumptions.
Really? How did they describe it? How was the actual situation different? Where were their errors?
That isn't as impossible as it might seem. Look at how many of your fellow Iraqis are willing to become suicide bombers now to strike back at the US or US-friendly police/politicians/etc.
You are confusing the word "traitor" with the concept of "victim".
It is possible to be both.
A "traitor" can sell out his own people for personal advantage, yet still have lost family to the previous regime.
Welcome to the paradise that is the occupation.
Hold it. There is destruction in Iraq???
WHY?!?
HOW CAN THAT BE?!?
Hardly. You were oppressed by the previous regime, so with the removal of that regime, you have a chance at increasing your position and security.
That's easy to understand.
Lots of groups feel that way in Iraq right now. And some of those groups see chaos and destruction as a means of advancing their group.
We understand you. You don't understand us.
We were pushing for a smoother change. One that came from the Iraqis themselves. One that would not result in a civil war or years of suicide bombers.
And it did. Again, when the old regime is removed, a new regime will take its place. You hope that the new regime will offer more security for you than the old one did.
But Iraq wasn't the terrorist haven/training ground. That was Afghanistan.
Why did we invade Iraq to stop terrorism?
> 2) So what? were you planning on working in a job that requires a clearance? How many of those are there? How many of those exclude foreign nationals?
In response to (2) a) and b), lots and almost all. And they pay great. If you want to get a better idea, check out the Washington Post's job page.
Good search terms:
- clearance
- TS/SI
- Top Secret
and so on. No offshoring here!Of course, if you live in MD, DC, or northern VA, be prepared to pay for California-like housing costs. But no earthquakes!
Keep your friends close.
Keep your enemies in a little jar on your desk.
The Marshall plan rebuilt Europe and prevented them from turning to less American friendly forms of government such as Communism.
I don't think the people who lived in Eastern Europe would agree with you. France and Great Britain declared war on Germany to secure Poland's independence. Six years of fighting and what was the result? The complete destruction of almost every major German city and the handing over of Eastern Europe to the Russians. Oh, and ultimately no one cared about Poland.
Great Britain lost her Empire, and France suffered no great loss only because they surrendered so quickly in 1940.
The Marshall Plan did nothing but permanently emaciate the German People and indebt the rest of Europe for decades to come. Its failure was so obvious that to this day, hundreds of thousands of American troops occupy Germany. The same Germany that has only been free of military occupation for only 12 of the last 90 years.
And people wonder why the Iraqis will do everything they can to undermine American "generosity". They know such generosity means the endless debt slavery of their people to the American financiers. They know that once the Americans are allowed to stay in their country peacefully they will never leave.
What can you possibly do that an indian or a chinese could not? I mean that sincerely.
What can an Indian or Chinese do that I cannot?
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
XML Tools for Mac OS X
It is probably a bit off-topic, but why doesn't Israel just give the fucking land back?
They tried that. The Palestinians weren't interested.
That is to say, the unelected, thieving thug claiming to represent the Palestinians wasn't interested. Now that said thug is in stable condition after dying in a Paris hospital, and there's a real democratic election coming, the potential Palestinian leaders now seem much more interested in the possibility of peace.
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
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I find your point of view interesting. However, your continual use of "you" causes me to think there may be a misunderstanding here. I'm not Iraqi, nor have I ever been there. I simply saw an interesting point of view that I linked to.
I'm a citizen of the USA. Not trying to assert superiority, just stating a fact.
Thank you.
hanzie.
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
How is that any different from Clinton's unprovoked war on and occupation of Serbia? At least Iraq was a threat to our interests.
You live up well to your name, Ignoramus Maximus.
I find it very amusing every time I read about Americans complaining about loosing their jobs to outsourcing.
Me, too.
You'd think more people would get a clue from the President and become members of an 0wnership Society just like he and the Vice President have.
It's obvious that Owner of Large Stock Holdings is a job that will be the last to be outsourced.
Considering the undemanding nature of the work of being a stockholder, you'd think more kids would choose that profession.
And, for many, the elimination of the inheritence^W death tax will make it so you don't need to work too hard or be very smart to get such a job, either.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
"... I don't think any future big wars will last six years. Heck, maybe not even 2 weeks."
I agree that on the face of it, six years looks like a long time. I guess the best response I can offer would be to suggest that you look closely at how the Iraq conflict plays out. I suspect that in 4 more years or so, you'll see a strongly established and effective military opposition the to US or whatever proxies remain.
Conflicts typically do last years, whether the Pentagon planners want them to or not. Ignoring the bellico-theatrical invasions of Panama and Grenada, I'd challenge you to point out a major conflict that has not lasted 6 years or more. You will find some, but I suspect you'll discover that they are the extreme minority.
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
That war at least had a modicum of legitimacy by being authorized by the entire NATO, in response to an immediate need to stop a genocide being commited. This was a charge that was true. The war was thus justified, although some would argue some of the methods deployed were questionable and it was executed prior to exaustion of other means of stopping the carnage.
Iraq on the other hand is a war of premeditated choice, based on ideology, whose authors attempted to decieve the world by fabricated evidence and which was ultimately not authorized by the UN or NATO.
I cant even fathom what sort of twisted logic would make anyone to even put these two in the same category.
Just because the Israelis have whiter skin than the Arabs does not make them a superior race.
I didn't say or suggest that. Palistine can become a modern educated place also, but first the fighting has to end so stability can take over.
And what's with the 'perhaps' and inverted commas? Israel have no right to the West Bank or Gaza strip and there are a tonne of UN resolutions that say so, period.
The resolutions also say Palistinians must stop the suicide bombing.
Table-ized A.I.
My one question to you is, if public schools have done you so well, why wouldn't you send your children to the same?
I grew up in a county in FL which did not have after school programs for elementry and middle school. High School activities were very limited. The county also made news in the media when they began practicing an agenda of not teaching any of U.S. History's low points. It was an agenda of U.S. superiority. The county wanted it's students believing that the U.S. can do no wrong. The school system suffered from the low taxation of the county. Most of the population was retirees from out of state who did not want to pay taxes to educate other peoples children.
I would place my child in a private school to get more oppurtunity if the current area I live in had the problems mentioned above. Also I am interested in giving my children a more non conventional education. Most private schools I have seen teach in a similar fasion to public schools only at an accelerated pace. Both types of schools generally do not attempt to create independent thought. However, there are some Montesori schools which do. These are the private schools which I may be interested in sending my child to.
Every one should be given a quality education. It should not be a question of who can afford the education.
Bombadillo said: There is a correlation in modern urban society between Guns and Instability.
There's also a correlation in modern society between democracy and "instability".
However, I'll rather live in the "instability" of western nations than the absolute "stability" of someplace like North Korea.
Also... the "instability" in modern urban America is by design.
The war on drugs is designed to keep the prisons full, the anti-drug paramilitary forces fully employed, and the poor under virtual house-arrest in their neighborhoods.
Legalize drugs, so that the businessmen and entreprenuers involved in the street-level pharmacuetical business have access to the court system to resolve business disputes, and most gun violence in urban America would dissapear almost instantly.
You'd think that the current administration would be all for the idea of "reducing the contraints on business" and "letting the market decide" and "allowing entreprenuers to grow the economy". ;)
But, unfortunately (from the point of view of the powers-that-be), legalizing drugs would put several tens of thousands of hired anti-drug thugs out of work, and would also leave the poor people in the inner cities free to live their lives without constant gun-battles and police raids. It would also be devastating to the stock of the many private corporations that run prisons in many states... seeing as how drug-offenders make up more than 50% of their "customer base".
So, obviously, we can't have that any of that ;)
But hey, you just go on and blame the "guns" for causing "instability"... it's easier than having to actually examine cause-and-effect.
It'll make it that much easier for your public servants when they come to you offering "stability" and "security", in exchange for some of those pesky freedoms that you aren't using much anyways.
Clinton's war was one of premeditated choice (he chose to intervene), based on ideology (that states should interfere in the internal affairs of other states), whose authors attempted to deceive the world by ignoring evidence (e.g. the massive Croat-on-Serb, Bosnian-on-Serb and Kosovar-Albanian-on-Serb atrocities).
If Clinton had invaded Iraq he'd be the great hero of the Left--although to be fair the response from the Right would probably be little better than it was for the Yugoslavian intervention.
.. of the bribed and cajoled. You know this probably comes as a shock but buying a few soldiers from your right-wing spiritual brothers in 5th-rate countries, "a coalition" does not make. The only semi-real player in that "coalition" is Britain, to the great embarrassment, annoyance and disbelief of the vast majority of British citizens.
in response to a war which had been going on for over a decade--which is true
Whoa there! Hold on for a moment. What war? With whom?! A decade? You mean there was this war going on with Saddam launching his WMDs at the shores of New Jersey? And there was nothing on TV? Or perheaps you mean a campaign of continuous harrassment by US and UK aircraft in the US and UK imposed "no-fly" zones, the only parts in the country where Al-Qeida affiliates such as Ansar Al-Islam, managed to thrive? So in your disturbing logic, if USA was lusting after Iraq for a decade but since its harassment failed to work, that justifies finally dropping any pretense and just going to murder your way in to get it?
Clinton's war was one of premeditated choice (he chose to intervene)
Yes it was, but at least that choice had a modicum of legitimacy.
based on ideology (that states should interfere in the internal affairs of other states)
Sure, although in his case he was being asked to do so by a lot of countries in the region.
whose authors attempted to deceive the world by ignoring evidence
And here you come out as a total right-wingnut: the people who were doing the deceiving were the ones who the NATO war was against as opposed to the ones who amongst lies and fabrications claim high moral ground and pretend to come to the aid of the Iraqi people while on an errand of conquest. The evidence being hidden was against the people who NATO went to war with. The deceit merely compounded the case against the Serbs, the Croats and the Albenians. It was not Clinton and NATO who were doing the fabrications. But I see now that you caught onto someting, lets compare the deceit in the two wars, one by the genocidal ethnic maniacs and the other by a villanous empire hellbent on aggression, yes in both cases the villains where doing the deceiving! And while we are on the subject of the NATO/Serbia war, the entire affair was revolting since the NATO behaved like a bunch of idiots and caused massive amounts of collateral damage while managing to violate even the most basic canons of humane behaviour, such as explictely targeting journalists and TV stations. And yet, they never managed to sink anywhere near as low as the current crew in Iraq.
If Clinton had invaded Iraq he'd be the great hero of the Left
Since you seem to think someone like Bill Clinton is a leftie, I have news for you: he is a representative of the Corporatist Party B, otherwise known as the "GOP lite", and so I will have to dissapoint you by not declaring a slightest sympathy for that career crook.
Specifics, please.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Only when you Americans, with your Manifest Destiny, give the Native Americans their land back first. How, exactly, do you explain herding the peaceful native population into "Reservations" and stealing their land?
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Insightful, indeed.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
- That charge has nothing to do with the Defense industry or any "Defense bigwig"
- That charge has nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
- That allegation was dropped for lack of evidence, smart guy.
Corruption in Israeli politics is way different from in the US. Yitzhak Rabin resigned because his wife had a US Bank account. OoooOOhhh. Scandal!Unfortunately, I can see why you would suspect defense industry political corruption. It hits very close to home, doesn't it?
Please don't accuse Israeli politicians of behaving like US politicians.
Any more links, or can I assume you're through?
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
The media-reported US and European nations' unemployment rates do NOT measure the same thing. In fact, if you'll examine US Department of Labor unemployment rates, you'll find that there are five of them: U-1 through U-5. The U-5 rate is more accurate count of US unemployment, which counts the same way that European countries do. As a result, the U-5 rate is much higher; there is, in fact, little difference between US unemployment rates and British, French, or German unemployment rates.
I believe we are thinking about this differently. I agree with all you said in your response, but when I said "future big wars" I was refering to a WWI or WWII size war. I just have a feeling if a global war starts, someone (us, them, whoever) will not be able to keep their hands off the nuke button.
I do agree that traditonal-type wars/invasions/"police actons" do last for years, but unfortuneately I just have this sense that something big is going to pop in the coming years.
Anyway, have a nice weekend!
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.