Slashdot Mirror
EA Starts Gamedev Program
mrseigen writes "CNN is reporting that EA has opened a game program at USC. It is the first official game development education. Yeah, right."
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Or Braunshweiger, as Oscar Mayer calls it?
Here's the real question (ready?):
Should universities be designed for vocational training?
Discuss.
A real job to steal game ideas!
Do they assign 80 hours of homework a week to students? I mean, they want to make it realistic right?
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
Lesson 1. "Time management."
Lesson 2. See Lesson 1
Talk about taking the fun out of games!
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
We'll teach you that an addiction to No-Doz for our obscenely long crunch times is good. You will receive no medical reimbursement should you fail this assignment, and your grade will fall to an F.
Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
Make games seem more like a real job?? You mean fewer hours, more pay and better benefits?
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
There are institutions like DigiPen, and there are a lot more game design schools out there.
CNN needs to get their facts straight.
Can't wait to see EA's take on it. Now instead of aspiring to be a low paid, overworked game developer, you can start straight in college as a non-paid, overworked game developing intern. And some young jackass will actually count themselves lucky for the chance.
Hmmmmm, I would feel delighted to be the professor with that job. Your students are always too busy playing games to come to class. Does game programming really belong in a university setting? I think that universities should be in the business of teaching proper coding technique and theory and leave the implementation to companies.
You mean like Medicine?
If only all those hours of my life that went into Starcraft counted for something
you get credit for player games all your life?
Sounds like EA to me!
Why say "yeah right" ?? Do you disagree with something, and if so, why don't you just come out and say it, and maybe back it up with something.
Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
Programming From Templates
Managing Programmers from a Marketing Perspective
Caffeinated Beverages
Time Management
Effective and Ethical Project Management
Why a Job is More Important than a Life
... they sure as hell aren't teaching web development. The site looks horrible in Firefox.
Hmmm....a degree program run by Electronic Arts-
It's a 4-year degree, but you're required to finish the classwork in 6 months. BUT, you can pass with an "F" as long as you filled in every blank on the tests.
It is nice to see something like this at a "legitimate" university, not just a DeVry type institution (i'm not trying to talk down about DeVry and it's alum, just stating that the outside world will tend to take the career more seriously.)
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
Too bad they don't have a graduate program. I'd like to get a Masters in Games. Although, how creditible does that sound?
Cornell has had The Game Design Initiative available for a while, although there is no actual major in game design.
http://www.digipen.edu/ - I remember getting info back in the days about this school Digipen that would teach me how to program Nintendo games...
The first? This EA Gamedev program? I doubt it.
If your's is chop liver, then I hope by the time I graduate there's a piece left for me. I've still got 2 years left.
Location: Mt. Xinu
We have something called "Art and Technology" at my school. It's similar to doing 3D and Flash and such here. You even work with robotics and electronics as well as holograms. Yet it's an art degree and you learn enough to make flash video games, 3d worlds, and VRML to use it. I'd say this programs at nearly all large public universitys. So who really needs a game development program?
If you combine a minor in CIS with an art degree with specific classes in digital art you'll get the same thing, if not better I think.
Is this really necessary to add an extra program and degree type to the already growing list of options for technical majors?
Apparently they only offer a 'certificate' rather than a university degree, but the Guildhall at SMU has been running for two and a half years now.
There may be earlier programs; this is just one that I happen to know of.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
"It is the first official game development education."
.
I think they forgot about Digipen
And I quote from Digipen's website: "DigiPen is the first educational institution in the world to offer a Bachelor of Science Degree program in game development."
What a surprise. Slashdot's moderation system is just way out of whack. How does a post that says "Hopefully this will make Game's seem more like a REAL job." in response to an article titled "EA Starts Gamedev Program" qualify as "offtopic"?
I think negative metamoderation needs to smack down the bad modders much faster.
Bing Gordon, Chief Creative Officer and co-founder of Electronic Arts (Research), was named the first holder of the Electronic Arts endowed faculty chair at the USC School of Cinema-Television, according to a statement from the company, the biggest video game publisher.
I love it. The guy endows himself as a faculty chair. Forever putting to rest the notion that University curriculum can't be bought.
Academic integrity @ USC => zero.
"Studying Sets You Free"
Doesn't this sound too much of a publicity stunt (both for USC and EA sports). I mean I am under the impression that anyone with a reputable CS degree (and interested in games) should be a good hire for any game company.
And from the student's point of view isnt a 'game degree' a bit to specialized and restrictive. I mean I was really really sue that I wanted to be game developer when I was in hight school but 4 years later I realized that there are many other interesting jobs I could do. Any way thats My $0.02
Bachelor of Science in Game Design Management, 4 Years of Study, 3 of which can be contracted out to developers in India or China.
"Love is like pi - natural, irrational, and very important." (Lisa Hoffman)
Dang, even the submitters don't read the articles anymore. It claimed to be "first-ever endowed chair at a university for the study of electronic gaming and interactive entertainment" not "the first official game development education". I'm an alumni and there have been game development classes going back years.
Also, before people start sneering, this degree is in the USC School of Cinema-Television, not the Engineering dept. It has about as much to do with the programming side of gaming as a degree in cinema has to do with the details of the electronics in a movie camera. USC does have some cool Computer Graphics classes in the Engineering dept, however.
Brian
After all. Students are paying to work for them. Not much difference between that and the EA employee benefits.
Now their empl^H^H^H^Hstudents will work 80-hour weeks and pay them for it, without benefits!
What about the sorta official Nintendo school DigiPen? Nintendo has a pretty close tie to that school and hires from there all the time.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
EA is heavily in development of the most anticipated game this decade.
SimSlaves debut release will capture frustration, bad HR practices and overworked employees at their worst. You thought your pointy haired boss was bad, wait until you can see what an evil HR dept and Development sweatshoppe can do!
Digipen
they've been around for years. no idea if theyre accredited or not, but i know game companies take digipen graduates seriously.
This isn't actually even the first game design program at USC. I am currently in the track for a video game programming minor from the information technology program, which also offers a minor in video game production and design. The cinema school also runs an interactive technology minor. The head of the Information Technology Program, who is also one of my professors has talked about possibilities in creating a Masters in video game design. The news in this article seems to be just the chair that was endowed. For better information, see USC Information Technology Program.
Verbatim from USC gaming computer website.
Gateway computers
Pentium IV - Intel 3.0 GHz RAM
1 GB Video
Gforce4 5900
256MB of onboard RAM
USB 2.0, firewire support, sound blaster compatible
DVD drive
Is any self-respecting geek going to go to a place that can't talk about hardware correctly?
But then again, if you had self respect, the EA attachment would probably stop you cold.
A university (or any *school*) should be a center of learning. If there's demand for a course of study, faculty willing and able to teach it, and resources to support it, I see no problem.
A university designed for vocational training would a vocational school. USC still offers Classics and Mathematics degrees all the way up to the doctoral level, right?
My local community college has had a very good game development program for 3 years, diversified now into three possible certificates (those who want an Associates need to complete a handful of extra courses, giving them both a Computer Science degree and a Game Programming or Development certificate). The bent of the program is to give students (who already have a basis in computer programming or graphics design) a beginning introduction to the art, then give them time to work on a demo/portfolio. It's possible to jump into the industry to some degree after completing the program, but far better to go to a specialized university first (DigiPen being a common goal, though not always realized). Game programming is not a vacation by any stretch of the imagination, so jumping in with a two year degree would certainly scare me. So this is hardly the first place where this sort of thing is taught, in that it exists at the two year as well as the four year level.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
And I guess the Guild Hall at SMU, and Digipen, are just a bunch of hippies smoking pot and downloading porn. Yeah, right. EA has officially made me classify them as "The Big Evil." Next, you'll be able to get "Electronic Arts Game Certification" licenses. Go AHEAD EA! PAVE THE WAY for a new generation of total idiots with closed minds, and crap skills... MADDEN 4 LYFE! BLING!
Help me, help you. - Jerry McGuire
Maybe Microsoft will designate some University in Washington as the providers of the only "official" operating system programming education, or something stupid like that?
Maybe SCO will designate some law school as the only "official" corporate lawsuit education providers?
I love how, because they are a huge heartless titan in the game world, they have the gall to claim that they're the only ones who can name "official" game dev educational programs.
I just hope this doesn't start a trend. Furthermore, I hope nobody will take their claims seriously; unfortunately, most PHB-types, who blindly follow the Industry Leader, will just nod and accept what they say. Likewise, if Microsoft designated an "official operating systems college", they'd just accept it, and alter their hiring practices accordingly...
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
I kinda like the way we got it setup here in Canada. If you want an education based in theory, understanding of key concepts and the like then go to University. If you want to learn how to do things, get a basic understanding of the "whys" then go to college. Generally the University people understand more, but can do less.
(NOTE: This is an honest true story)
Me and a friend of mine in college made money doing the "practical" assignments for friends from university. They understood the principles of software engineering, but however, could not write a line of code.
Oddly enough, they're the ones that would run the a software project, but wouldn't know how the developers actually made it work.
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Worcester Polytechnic Instute offers a B.S. degree in "Interactive Media and Game Development". The program is jointly administered by the Computer Science Department and Humanities and Arts Department, and focuses on both the technical and artistic sides.
Lesson One: How to Develop Games in Tortuous Working Environments and Not Complain One Bit
I agree. My post WAS on topic... Blah..
Yay, I have a sig.
Hi everybody, I go to UAT (University of Advancing Technology). The school is not run or even sponsored by EA, so I have no clue wtf the /. post is saying!
oh, and btw, Uat.edu is undergoing a major site-redesign to be 100% compatible with all browsers
i shure hope youre not taken english .
EA University
Overwork everything.
StrayByte.Net
Do they assign 80 hours of homework a week to students? I mean, they want to make it realistic right?
The students training to make RPGs get 80 hours, the students training to make action games or platformers get about 20 hours, and the online FPS students seem to never do anything else
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Maybe someone from Blizzard can come and give a class there on how to do multiplayer RTS games. Battle for Middle Earth is probably the worst multiplayer setup I've ever come across.
Plagued with NAT errors, DCers, no port forwarding instructions in the readme, and huge balance problems.
I mean come on, Warcraft3 has an incredibly solid multiplayer setup, and it's been around for -years-.
How EA can pour millions into an awesome game, and then completely wreck it with some half-assed effort at a multiplayer setup, and get away with it (Tolkien enterprises would be -pissed- if they had any idea how horrible the multiplayer is in BFME) is beyond me.
Talk about pissing away the Lord of the Rings game franchise. EA has pretty much blown it on every title that's come out under LOTR. Incredibly weak...
My very last semester, I took a game programming course. It was all Direct X 9 coding.
It was a fun course (actually one of the harder ones). Everyone showed up to class.
Mind you to get to that point you have to take many advanced C/C++ class's, so its not a joke class.
I remember way back in the day, when I was just a little tyke subscribing to Nintendo Power, they mentioned a college in British Columbia called the DigiPen Institute of Technology, who's ONLY focus is video game development. In fact, I believe the only thing you can major in is a B.S. in "Game Development". They've been in the field considerably longer than USC's game development school.
As much as I'd like to become a game developer, I wouldn't put much stock in a school that has a website that looks utterly horrible (and is totally non functional) under anything but IE. Try viewing it with Firefox and see how well it handles.
And they said zombies weren't real!
You're not an alumni unless you have dissociative identity disorder. You're an alumnus.
Good job demonstrating your college education.
Hey people! Wake up!
/. submitter] notion that USC was the first with a games dev program.
I know it's late, but seriously. Read the fucking article! No where did it claim that USC was the first university to have a game development program. It simply said the some dude was going to be the first to head it at USC. Even more, the link to UAT was to disprove the [made up by
The cost of tuition will run about $45K over 4 years, which is twice what you can expect to make starting out in the game industry with no experience.
Folks- don't fall for it. Game developers get paid peanuts unless you're in the top 20% or are blessed with enough money to run your own successful game house. And this is with the skillset being fairly hard to find. EA wants to make everyone with an xbox and the idea of learning to make games in college a potential hire to further reduce wages.
It's a shame that such "game development" classes so often center on "game development graphics," rarely spending more than a sidenote on sound, user interface, etc., which can really make or break a game.
Or am I the only person who abhors graphics code, and the industry's latest obsession on pretty-realism?
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
SJ Mercury News reported about this few months back. But you should have seen this paper. The business section had two major stories side by side. One was about new game development education program and corresponding degree at USC. And another story about increasing outourcing of game development jobs abroad.
Oh the irony.
- Back off man. I am a scientist
Well, the flash animation is kinda on par...
High School Senior transforms into College Freshman.
When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
Serious stuff going on at Carnegie-Mellon
http://www.etc.cmu.edu/about.html
Most of those courses specific to game programming my university offers for Comp Sci majors as electives. And I would think some of the ones they are offering wouldnt really come in handy for a game programmer.
What is it about these corporate "endowments"? Are they trying to compensate for something?
"I've called you here today to talk about your thesis. I know your thesis on identity and translocality in European RPG's 1987 - 1997 is almost finished, but it lacks a certain something. How can I say this? We think it will focus better if we sex it up a bit. Don't give me that look. I'm your thesis advisor and I'm advising you to do what I say or we'll boot your ass out. Throw out what you've done and switch to lascivious female vampires in Terminal Reality developed console games, 2000 - 2004. That's right, throw it out. That's right 2000 to 2004. I don't care what year Bloodrayne shipped, just do it.
Don't forget, it needs to be done in three more days to be ready for the holiday season, and you can't afford to fail your first submission.
Stop that. Stop crying. Here, have a tissue. That will be five cents."
The ______ Agenda
One of the TAs in my low-level assembly course could not write a line of C or ASM despite having a master's degree in computer science, and TAing the bloody course. Makes you wonder.
Seems to me they're trying to shore up more slav... er... workers for their salt min.. sorry, sweatsho... never mind.
Linux sucks. And you're fat. Take a shower hippy.
i first saw this article about 1.5 years ago:
Computer Science Undergraduates Complete Multiplayer, Online Games.
Course Website (CSE 125)
San Diego , Monday, June 21, 2004 -- Earlier this month, five teams of Computer Science and Engineering (CSE) students showcased their respective online, multiplayer games to a packed audience in Peterson Hall on the UCSD campus. The games were part of CSE 125, a project-based course on Software System Design and Implementation, taught each spring by CSE professor Geoff Voelker (and TA'd this year by CSE 125 alum John Rapp).
it looks like a really fun and interesting course and would love to take it.
HD Trailers
Indeed!
I think computer science departments should be run like music departments:
Every semester, we have juries. You appear in front of a panel of 3-5 professors for 10-15 minutes and demonstrate what you've done this semester. For most, it means playing a piece (composition majors bring what they've written). If you fail, you are placed on probation and have to pay for your own lessons the next semester. If you fail again the next semester, you are dropped from the department.
Oh, and senior projects/recitals are mandatory for all.
I think a similar program in CS departments could really shake things up. You show up on the last day of classes in front of an empty terminal and are given instructions such as "You have one hour. Code and debug a heap."
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
You know...I think we need to get a few more people in here to mention Digipen.
Full Sail
I'm a stuedent at the only game institution officially backed by Nintendo (digipen has NOA SUPPORT). The school I go to is called HAL, it is in Nagoya Japan. Here in Japan game universities are somewhat commonplace. When I graduate I will have a batchelors in game design.
Also, EA ruins everything. The'll fuck this up too.
Should universities be designed for vocational training?
Why not? That's why most people go to college. I think it should at least be an option for people not looking for expertise, just a 9-5.
http://www.wpi.edu/Academics/Majors/IMGD/ Worcester Polytechnic Institute has a Interactive Media and Game Development major starting next year. They already have some classes available but the major wont be official until next year. One of the kids that I am living with next year is a CS/IMGD double major I think. This major seems to cover both the technical and design/story line aspects of gaming. They start off learning a base of both and then pick which direction they want to go in. Here is more information: http://www.wpi.edu/News/Releases/20045/imgd.html
Didn't SMU already do this?
http://guildhall.ecsrv.smu.edu/welcome.php
Stranded.org
A quick look through the faculty and it looks like none of them have shipped a single game.
Good to see that the worlds playing catchup, my old institution, QANTM provided Games Programming as a Degree Course. They're been doing it for the last five years or more. QANTM (Queensland and Northern Territory Multimedia) is a special multimedia school, but games programming has been on the menu and its well established.
I always wondered where this setting was...
You just don't get it.
Why would someone play the LOTR based RTS game?
Obviously because they are LOTR fans. There are plenty of RTS games that focus on the gameplay rather then on design and the names of the units in the game.
Would LOTR fans care about all those problems that you described when they make decision to buy the game?
Of course not. Those people want LOTR themed units. They are not buying the game, they are buying LOTR brand.
Almost never franchise games worth playing.Usually it is a way to sell you well below average game under pretence that it is something great.
Remember this rule.It will remove a lot of frustration in your life.
Not a chance. U Texas at Dallas had one about 4 years ago that got 'moved' to Southern Methodist University about 3 years ago.... (I know someone that teaches there.)
This message was brought to you by "Lack of Sleep."
The University of Denver also has like four different Bachelor degrees in Game Development.
"If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?" --Seymour Cray
The University of Abertay in Dundee has been doing this for years.
as a former EA intern and current full time employee, i completely resent this bullshit. we were well paid and shown a lot more respect by the people we were working for than by this jackass. maybe you should get your facts straight about what it's like to work at EA instead of bindly following all of the sensationalist garbage posted on slashdot every day. believe it or not, a lot of people really enjoy being there. (gasp!) once you've worked there yourself, then come back and tell me how terrible it is.
Anyone ever heard of http://www.digipen.edu/ before? They're in Redmond, pretty much across the street from a Microsoft office.
How to make meth so you can stay up all night and work more.
"brxref
In the typical tradition of slashdot, either the article isn't read at all, or it's misinterpreted. I mean, we can't expect nerds to pick up on details, now can we?
From TFA:
Video gaming reached official academic status...
I take this to mean what was obviously intended: A university has dedicated resources to a video game development course. This is in no way saying "Until now, video game development was a black art, taught by no one."
When your field is being taught in a university instead of a special techinical school, I believe you might claim your field has reached official adademic status.
Now, I might not have said it this way if I'd have written the article, but I don't see how a simple lack of insight into what the author is trying to express is newsworthy. Oh well, I guess I'm not the slashdot majority...
PS- Don't mod this post.
What are you talking about? I can name a class here for each of your parenthetical "fundamentals":
-CS280 - Data Structures
-CS330 - Algorithm Analysis
-CS250 - Computer Graphics II: 3D graphics engine creation with 3D math
-MAT250 - Linear Algebra: 3D math
All of those are in the first two years of school, more advanced versions of those classes and classes that build on those classes occur afterwards. In CS270 you make a linked list (in C, with recursion) and in CS280 you go over the O() notation (i.e. O(n) vs O(log2 n)) of using a list or an array, plus you also go over things such as optimization (like pre-increment vs post-). If you're getting people from DigiPen that don't know their shit, then they probably only graduated by brute force (i.e. throwing money at the school until they graduated).
Also, two DigiPen-made games are in the IGF student showcase, and one in the professional competition. Also, a DigiPen game won the Audience award at the BIG C competeition and the Jury Award winner Revolved is made by a company founded entirely by DigiPen graduates. They look like they have the credentials to me, but I'll let you judge however you want.
After all. Students are paying to work for them. Not much difference between that and the EA employee benefits.
Actually, who is to say EA will need any employees when they have fleets of grad students? After all, how is anyone else going to produce a competitive football game with the licence...
EA is literally taking the ball away and running all the way home with it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
SCAD has had a game development major for 3 years now. But whatever...
Stop intellectual property from infringing on me
Class, your only assignment this semester is a game we shall codename "NBL Gameplay 2006".
AP story same day
EA announces layoffs of the entire Madden division. No word yet as to what team will continue devevlopment of the popular series.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I am a computer science major at USC, yet I am hearing about this through slashdot?
Damn you USC. Damn you!
Mastery of programming languages shouldn't be a prequisite for studying computer science. Granted, those skills are pretty useful, but rather than testing them directly the curriculum should just encourage their development to give you a leg up when studying computer theory, just as a music comp. major would become pretty handy with a piano while putting together his pieces.
I kinda like the way we got it setup here in Canada. If you want an education based in theory, understanding of key concepts and the like then go to University. If you want to learn how to do things, get a basic understanding of the "whys" then go to college. Generally the University people understand more, but can do less.
(NOTE: This is an honest true story)
Me and a friend of mine in college made money doing the "practical" assignments for friends from university. They understood the principles of software engineering, but however, could not write a line of code.
It's the same way in the United States, but rather than calling it "University" and "college", we call it "college" and "vocational/technical school". I went to a technical school last year and there were several people there who had gone to college and immediately went to the technical school afterwards because while their colleges had taught them interesting concepts, they didn't actually teach them anything they could apply on a day-to-day basis in their chosen field.
My 9 years experience as a videogame programmer says: No.
Because you'll be stuck with largely irrelevent skills in 5 years if it turns out that you hate videogame development after your first three year project gets cancelled 1 month before shipping.
I've seen it happen.
I feel much better knowing that I have a computer science degree - and could walk across the street and get a job programming financial software if I wanted to (although I tried it, hated it and went back to games).
The greatest thing that computer science taught me was how to be flexible, pick up new computer languages and techniques - and to apply software engineering to my day-to-day work. I didn't need to get a degree in making videogames - because I joined a team that already knew how to do that and were able to teach me as I went along.
The actual videogame-specific bits of videogame programming should be (1) natural to anyone with an interest in videogames, and (2) easy to pick up when you join a game development team.
I SURE hope you're not either....
Psychologists have been studying "interactive entertainment" in universities for decades - it just required porn instead of a computer ...
Pushing the pause button on the video hardly counts as "interactive"! 8-|
What's with the "yeah right" comment? I think /. would be better served by having article submissions stripped of such irrelevent sarcasm. Let the readers decide.
eTrade SUCKS
YAY! First Post!
Doesn't matter if your topic had a good point. You started it out with a first post comment. That was enough to earn off topic in many a mods book.
chown -R us
You'd have to be pretty stupid not to be able to write a heap in an hour after finishing your degree. What are you talking about, Devry College of Hair, Clowns, and Computers?
They need a writer that can *format* an
article correctly. What I think they ment to
say was
Gateway computers
Pentium IV Intel 3.0 GHz
RAM: 1 GB
Video: Gforce4 5900 with 256MB of onboard RAM
USB 2.0, firewire support,
sound blaster compatible sound card
DVD drive
Effective and Ethical Project Management
Ethical? EA? Riiight.
It was an off-the-top-of-my-head example, meant for, perhaps, the end of your first or second semester. And I've seen people graduate from universities who couldn't code their way out of a paper bag.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
Electronic Arts is sponsoring a certificate program at UCF here in Orlando. It will open in August... here is a link with a lot of info on it. http://www.ucfnews.com/news/2005/01/31/News/its-In .The.Game.At.UcfAffiliated.Ea.Sports.Program-84582 9.shtml
One of things which differs us from other animals on this round rock is that if we got some spare cycles we tend to think forward simulate what whould happen if we change this or that in another word we simulation. Game is simulation as well so maybe PLAY will show us new survivable way where to grow for all of us.
Carnegie Mellon has an Entertainment Technology Center which offers a Masters of Entertainment Technology (MET) degree.
The ETC draws upon Carnegie Mellon's particularly unique combination of strengths and its predisposition towards interdisciplinary related activities. The DaVinci Effect if you will.
Regards,
Spock_NPA
Seriously, I never come across such a broken page in FireFox. And what's up with the flash banner? What exactly CAN they do?! Turn a white guy black? Give a bland guy lip piercings and a worse haircut in a two seconds?! And yeah, UAT not USC like you mentioned.
Heres one in Scotland thats been going for a while (4 year games development degree)s .cfm?RID= 1&CID=185
http://www.abertay.ac.uk/Courses/CDetail
First in the US maybe, but Dundee (Abertay) University has offered numerous game development courses for a number of years
I think thats a good thing, and the next logic step. big hits in the game industry nowadays return more money (>400$) then movies that are called "hits" (>200$), so the demand of good coders is higher than a couple of years ago.
Interesting. I look around my development shop and %80 are university grads. The college guys are okay, but I find most have a fundemental lack of knowledge in UML, patterns, and software design/architecture in general, which is too bad. It's kinda like comparing Mechanical Desginer to a draftsman. Both can draw lines, but only one can understand the vison as a whole.... But if you need someone to crank out a VB front-end lickety split, a college man is your man...
But maybe we're spoiled, since my firm is located in Waterloo, and as such has access to one of the greatest sources of new CS grads in the world.
[This is ofcourse a blanket statement and not meant to apply in every case]
Why did you both capittalise and add an apostrophe to 'games'?
Are you a bit simple or something?
That was classic intercourse!
My alma mater offered several classes in game development with the goal of offering a variation of the CS major for game development. I imagine there are courses like those at many universities. Is it not "official" education until you can get a degree in the field?
http://www.wpi.edu/Academics/Majors/IMGD/
SPAM
Obviously the poster of this bit of news is a moron and doesn't know how to RTFA. Here's a short list of schools that offer training in Game development or closely-related programs (for you readers of Gamasutra, this'll look familiar:
3D Buzz Murfreesboro TN United States
3D Exchange Alameda CA United States
3D University Dickson TN United States
3D-Online Manhattan Beach CA United States
Aarhus University DK-8000 Aarhus C Denmark
Academy College Bloomington MN United States
Academy of Art University San Francisco CA United States
Academy of Converging Media Berlin Germany
Academy of Digital Animation Ridgecrest CA United States
Academy of G.E.T. (Game Entertainment Technology) Hollywood CA United States
Academy of Interactive Entertainment Watson ACT Australia
Ai Center for Digital Imaging and Sound Burnaby British Columbia Canada
Ajou University Suwon Kyungido South Korea
Alberta College of Art & Design Calgary Alberta Canada
Algoma University College Sault Ste. Marie Ontario Canada
Algonquin College Ottawa Ontario Canada
Animation Arts Centre - Seneca College Toronto Ontario Canada
Arena Multimedia Lahore Punjab Pakistan
Art Center College of Design Pasadena CA United States
Art Institute of California - San Francisco San Francisco CA United States
Art Institute of Philadelphia Philadelphia PA United States
Art Institute of Phoenix Phoenix AZ United States
Art Institute of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh PA United States
Art Institute of Portland Portland OR United States
Art Institute of Seattle Seattle WA United States
Art Institute of Vancouver - Burnaby Burnaby British Columbia Canada
Art Institute of Washington Arlington VA United States
Art Institute Online Pittsburgh PA United States
Austin Community College Austin TX United States
Austin Community College (Video Game Development) Austin TX United States
Ballyfermot College of Further Education Dublin n/a Ireland
Banff New Media Institute (BNMI) Banff Alberta Canada
Bloomfield College Bloomfield NJ United States
Bolton Institute Bolton Greater Manchester United Kingdom
Bournemouth University - National Centre for Computer Animation Poole United Kingdom
Bristol Community College Fall River Massachusetts United States
Brooks College Long Beach CA United States
California Institute of the Arts Valencia CA United States
California Polytechnic State University at San Luis Obispo San Luis Obispo CA United States
California State University, Fullerton Fullerton CA United States
California State University, Long Beach Long Beach CA United States
California State University, Long Beach - University College and Extension Services Long Beach CA United States
Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh PA United States
CATO (Center for Arts an Technology in Okanagan) Kelowna British Columbia Canada
Causeway Institute of FHE (Ballymoney Campus) Ballymoney N.Ireland United Kingdom
CCBC Essex/University of Baltimore Baltimore MD United States
Center for Arts and Technology Atlantic Canada Fredericton New Brunswick Canada
Centre for Creative Communications Toronto Ontario Canada
Centre for Distance Education Sydney Nova Scotia Canada
Centro de Informatica - Universidade Federal de Pernambuco Recife Pernambuco Brazil
Champlain College Burlington VT United States
Charles Sturt University Bathurst Bathurst NSW Australia
Clover Park Technical College Lakewood WA. United States
Cogswell Polytechnical College Sunnyvale CA United States
College for Creative Studies Detroit, michigan United States
College of Interactive Arts Vancouver BC Canada
College of Media Arts & Design at Drexel University Philadelphia PA United States
Collins College Tempe Arizona United States
Collins College - A School of Design and Technology Tempe Arizona United States
Computer Master Institute Victoria BC Canada
Concordia University Centre for Continuing Education Montreal Quebec Canada
Core Microsystems San Jose California
... this kind of thing's been going on in the UK for a while ...
http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/courses/comp-gamesi-mvr/t hecourse.shtm
http://www.bolton.ac.uk/courses/course_display.asp ?single=bsc_cgsd&mode=single&dept=games ... for example
## NB: Comment here
There is no claim that this is the "first official game development education." Several times it says the exact oposite:
UAT is one of the few programs that offers bachelor's degrees in game design.
Electronic Gaming Monthly recognized UAT as one of the "top five game-degree programs in the world" in the January 2003 issue.
The CNN article claims that this is the first professor's chair in computer game design, which it might very well be.
It's better to read the article before you post it on Slashdot, or people may think you're a troll.
n/t
There was a Nintendo University at least 5 years back in Washington State. I read about it in IEEE Computer.
UCF (University of Central Florida) just created a gamedev program with EA.
http://www.cas.ucf.edu/news/2004-EA-DM.php
I guess with EA's plan on world domination they at least need to tackle both coasts
Believe me, it made a huge difference to me in my recent job search. No one really gives a crap about the compiler you wrote for Scheme, in Scheme, but they're probably quite interested that you wrote some security auditing software for a uni. dept. when they are interested in having some similar software written for their use.
Head down, go to sleep to the rhythm of the war drums...
Why would EA really want to do this? I think the answer lies less in interest in seeding game developers and more in PR.
Do you realize that EA has 10x the market value of, for example, Metro Goldwin Mayer? That EA is only 1/3 the value of DISNEY??
I've never worked for or met anyone from EA, but clearly this is now an entertainment company first, and a game developer second. The fact the USC has long standing ties to hollywood and EA wants to dominate the tie-in market is no coincidence.
If tomorrow it came out that EA was going to open a theme park, as a shareholder I'd applaud it!!
But make no mistake: EA might as well publish teeny-bopper magazines and make cell phone rings if it would be more profitable than games. Gaming was simply a vehichle to make an entertainment giant.
Speaking of video game programs... Champlain College in Burlington VT has been running a Bachelor's degree in "Electronic Game & Interactive Development" since this past fall. They do have a working agreement with EA but the program is not run by EA. The school has a very good rep for Technology and Business based study. http://www.champlain.edu/majors/egame/news.php
...the EA exec who discovered how to get free labour?
A. Professor.
Rochester Institute of Technology has been offering a masters in Game Development since a year before I graduated in May 2003.
proxy
Uhm I think you might get just a LITTLE more theory in med school than in vo-tech. Additionally just to get in you likely have enough hard sciences in your pursuit of education to have developed a bit of problem solving.
I mean call me silly, but my doctors have had undergrads in microbiology, biochemistry, and *gasp* mechanical engineering.
I think that the following words of wisdom applies here:
"I never let school get in the way of my education." - Mark Twain
It is the responsibility of the student themselves to actually learn the stuff and not just to pass the exams.
Yes, passing the exams and learning the stuff that you actually need to know when you're out there working are different things.
Passing the exams AND learning to do stuff is the optimal way to chose.
I can give numerous examples of people with a University degree in CS that has studied C++ programming for over 2 years and comes with questions like:
"I have an instance of an object, but I don't remember how to access the member functions of that object, could you show me please?"
Those people asking the questions generally earns more money than the people answering them.
I guess it's the same as a driving license, just because you have one doesn't necessarily mean that you can actually drive a car properly.
. . . how in the world are they going to run a school? http://img190.exs.cx/img190/8057/easitethingagummy 1kj.jpg is a screenshot of what their site looks like in firefox.
Last year they made the decision about letting EA establish a 'digital arts academy' or whatever they like to call it. They're moving into the old expo centre here Orlando. There was one article in our campus tabloid mentioned some of the misdeeds, nobody said anything about it afterwards. Here's a link to the article where they blow their load over it CFF - EA Comes to UCF. It's an interesting read on how its supposed to help rejuvinate the area. I mean, EA are nazis as far as their work habits go, and I know a lot of my friends are wary about signing up. It didn't stop them from filling up the program already though...
-Gamma
Because you'll be stuck with largely irrelevent skills in 5 years if it turns out that you hate videogame development after your first three year project gets cancelled 1 month before shipping.
or the needs of the industry change while you are in school causing the school to drop your program so you can't even get a degree.
I'm not bitter
"He's a real midnight golfer"
OT, but, my bro is considering Digipen for his degree. did you enjoy it?
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
DancinSanta is lying.
All I can say with regard to the enjoyability of the school is to take a look at the posts in this article. Digipen seems to provide a very intense program aimed at producing game programmers who can get jobs at Nintendo.
Frankly, from all the horror stories I've heard about the game programming world, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Seems like a lot of trouble for very little pay.
Tell bro to consider a real university with girls and large facilities (libraries, etc). Digipen is very small and the student population isn't exactly diverse (this is my own observations driving past the "campus" every day).
The school above has a four year course which leads to a diploma in Game Design. It started last october with fourteen male and one female pupils (choosen from over 100, three of which were girls).
Our courses include programming, drawing, game history, character design, creative writing, color theory, modelling and the like. It is still pretty experimental but mostly fun.
Gonna get modded flame, but I don't care. This is not meant to correct you or make you feel like a dick, but to teach.
The singular for of "alumni" for a man is "alumnus". Thus you would say, "I am an alumnus." I would say, "I am an alumnae."
Just fyi.
I think "first offical" is a bit off the mark. The folks at SMU have been doing this for a few years down at GuildHall. It most likely will be argued that SMU is the USC of the east, but I beg to differ. Their technology programs are second to few. Of particular interest is their Engineering Department Not to mention that they have the largest Engineering Executive Master's program in the country, and specialize in distance education.
Back to the point, USC does have a program, but it is not the "first official"
This sig has been removed pending an investigation.
Definitely not the first school to offer a game design degree. This school in Zurich has been offering a program for over a year now.
http://gamedesign.hgkz.ch/
Is my Digipen degree chopped liver?
No more than it was yesterday... so yes.
I have worked with some very good and some very bad developers. In my experience, there is no strong correlation with style of course taken.
There are great programmers who didn't study CS at university and there are also certainly some appalling post-university developers (and post "vocational" institution developers). However, the inverse is also true.
The best developers learn most of what they know because they want to and would learn it whether they go to university or not. The piece of paper, wherever it comes from, is just a ticket to a job. Once in the front door, hopefully, they can show what they can do and it shouldn't matter.
I've been in a position both as a TA and as an "industry supervisor" where I have been told not to fail students. Failing students reflects badly on the wrong people and can mean funding problems. I'm not at all surprised that people are graduating from university who can't code. Just don't assume they understand the theory not the practice - it's more likely they just don't have a clue.
Mastery of programming languages shouldn't be a prequisite for studying computer science.
Absolutely correct. Otherwise, where would we get our PHBs?
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
Whatever happened to Digipen?
I think we're seeing this more and more in IT. As society realizes the fields that IT can apply to, we'll see it move out of engineering and CS departments, and mature into things like the School of Informatics at Indiana University.
Now EA will own exclusive rights to programmers as well as everything else in the free world. Because you know somewhere in the fine print it'll say something like:
"You will only be able to use the skills learned hereafter to program games for Electronic Arts and its subsidaries, etc. etc. All your base are belong to EA"
mount
Me and a friend of mine in college made money doing the "practical" assignments for friends from university. They understood the principles of software engineering, but however, could not write a line of code.
It makes sense. if you want to be an engineer that plans and manages construction of tall buildings you don't need the tricks and techniques of actually going there with your bare hands and putting a wall together with bricks and cement. you will probably be looked down on civil engineering school if you never ever actually built a wall with your hands, but it makes sense. you know the theory, but you don't have the motor skillz or the practice or even want to do that.
Programming is a HARD and exhaustive labor, sometimes you know exactly how the program must behave and how it will be laid out, but you still have the X hours of GRUNT work ("mindless work for the mind"?) of typing stuff, debugging, trying again, etc. what confuses people is that both programming and engineering/planning software are mental jobs, but they are different kinds of mental jobs.
of course, most programmers need eventually to play both roles (planner and implementor) but you can be a master planner, and leave the implementation to somebody else, and the other way around too.
Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. - Edsger Dijkstra
espo
This site has become useless as a discussion of anything related to EA or gaming in general. It has devolved to a bunch of groundless EA bashing. If your gonna call out EA for funding education, I don't see how anybody will take you seriously when you call out EA for overworking employees.
I'm glad that at least one person tried to make the discussion about corporate sponsorship of academic programs. (FWIW, I think it's a good idea for corporations to pay as long as the school retains complete control of the curriculum.) But when it gets drowned out by all the haters, you have to ask, Why bother?
No.
I'm not the original poster, but I graduated with an A.S. from dP in 2002 (I was in the four year program, but switched to get out of there). It's just not worth the money (unless your talking about the art program, which I can't speak for).
Just get a regular CS degree from a good university. It'll open more doors, and be a much more balanced education.
Should universities be designed for vocational training?
No.
But.....
No.
(Disclaimer: While I've done some game development, and am looking into the GBA homebrew scene at the moment, I actually have an English degree. So take my comments with a grain of whatever flavor salt you think appropriate.)
(Mmmm... cherry salt....)
Note, that it's Electronig Arts that's sponsoring a major in game design. Oy.
I'm thinking, these days, that the modern game development system is antithetical to new game designs, and not just because of management meddling with developers (note that in the CNNmoney article EA's management guy is actually TOUTED as having a hand in almost every game they release).
I think, however, that the thing most designers need to do these days is experiment.
That's right, experiment. Miyamoto is well-known for having run experiments with 3D development and movement systems before starting work on Mario 64. Will Wright used the stuff happening on the ground in Raid on Bungling Bay as something of a trial run for SimCity.
By experiment, I mean writing a small, unsaleable program to try out new ideas. But current tight development schedules make such undirected play unlikely.
Which leads me to believe that if Google ever got into game development, they would utterly rule.
http://www.digipen.edu --- first ever gaming college -_-, you can thank Nintendo for making it.
No, I think that composition majors should have to be able to play at least ONE instrument, with moderate skills. Without such skill, they wouldn't have a clue as to limitations of any instruments.
And this, I believe, is what those "but programming is monkey job" architect-wannabes are missing. As much as I agree that the most important things is understanding things that are important regarding computer languages (from discrete maths to CPU design and compiler theory), I also think that it is essential to be fluent in at least one real life programming language.
I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
The piece of paper, wherever it comes from, is just a ticket to a job
Not always.
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
I would say, "I am an alumnae."
Are you sure it's "-ae" rather than "-a"?
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
As a graduate of both dP and a "real" university I'd recommend that your brother skip dP and study computer science elsewhere. He will earn a respectable degree and get some social experience to boot.
I can try and field a reply. I too was in the first class of the Guildhall graduating in December 2004. I was in the software track and I am currently contracting with Gearbox Software.
My background is a BS in CS from the Univ. of Mary Hardin-Baylor with 2 years employment at MySanAntonio.com and major news website in San Antonio.
Like Jerrith, the Guildhall attracted me because it is a graduate level program and it also has a tremendous backing from the industry.
To answer your questions:
* is the coursework challenging?
Yes, for me this was the most challenging time I ahve ever had in an educational environment. I was one of those that never had a problem making good grades as it sort of came natural to me. The Guildhall pushed me harder and taught me more than I could have imagined.
* is it relevant?
Yes, definitely. The curriculum at the Guildhall was designed by industry professionals. They give advice and suggestions on what students will need to know to be successful in the industry and the Guildhall teaches those things.
* did they help with placement?
The Guildhall from the beginning did not promise that every student would get a job after graduation. But they do have someone on staff who is the contact for companies looking for employees and also encouraging students to keep their portfolios updated and current.
* do game companies respect it?
Yes, the ones that actually know about it give it tremendous respect. The problem comes in that it is a new program and it takes time for recognition to propogate through the industry ranks. I think a lot of the name recognition will come from the graduates and how they prove themselves on the job using what the Guildhall taught them. As of right now, graduates have a lot of explaining to do during an interview when someone asks "What is the Guildhall?" But like I said, it comes with time.
* Since you already had a BS CS, was the Guildhall a cakewalk or a grad level advancement?
For me, the Guildhall was extremely challenging. For some it was not as difficult and for others it was more difficult so it really depends on the skills and experience that you bring to it. But across the board, I think everyone would agree that the Guildhall was never a "cakewalk."
* could someone without a CS degree make it through? (their website sort of implies you don't have to have a BS)
Yes, it is definitely possible. I know of at least two students who did not have a college education coming into the program. However, they did have a great knowledge of C++ and were very skilled at the trade. The main thing is to know C++ backwards and forwards and the rest will be taught at the Guildhall.
Moreover, it has basically zero news value (since there are plenty of such programs), and I don't understand what it's doing here unless it's a troll.
The first link is an article that is about USC. But the second link points to a school called UAT, which has nothing to do with USC.
I'm a graduate of one of these "sonic the hedgehog" schools that's run by a games company CEO.
Just don't go. You are very likely to be ripped off and brainwashed into accepting truly shitty conditions and pay.
And IF you get hired, and complain about anything you are going to be shown the door.
Why else would a greedy bastard games company start training people?
It also means they get all the poor suckers to pay for their training, insteading of the company providing it whilst on the job.
I did both College and University. One year at University and I realized I didn't know what I really wanted to do. So I finally knew (something related to computers) so I went for a "Computer Programmer" diploma at my local college. Practically finished it but I really didn't learn all that much. General VB.NET programming skills, basic Java programming skills, some general network knowledge, quite a few decent courses in database theory (later on programming), and some web stuff. Practically NO math...there was 1 course that was the equivalent of grade 10 stuff. We were using Maple.
So what did I really get out of it? Hmmm...some OO concepts, database theory (which is nice), but am I a competent programmer? Do I really know how to produce a great Java app? No. I don't even remember much of it.
Personally I think University's much better because you get a strong foundation and you can always teach yourself new languages. With College they don't challenge you at all (at least not in my school). So now I'm 25 and going back to University for one more crack at the education system. yay.
But, I agree, it is just words.
Oh, and as far as universities being designed for vocational training. I think universities should focus on the betterment of human knowledge in the arts & sciences. I went to university to gain knowledge, I went to Digipen to get a job.
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!