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Hard Drive Cooling for 10 Cents

David Tiberio writes "I've bought many hard drive cooling solutions over the years, sometimes spending $50 or more on drive cooling systems that were noisy and did little to cool down the drive. After much tinkering, I discovered a simple solution that cost me only 10 cents per drive... the 1/2 inch bracket. Mounts any 80mm fan to the belly of an internal hard drive."

420 comments

  1. 10c? by ElPresidente1972 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fan not included, I take it?

    (first post?)

    1. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      You have to take the fan out of the power supply to put on the hard drive bracket and then swap the case fan with the power supply fan because your power supply is over-heating and then go out and purchase a case fan because your system is getting too warm.

      So essentially. the hard drive fan is free. It is the case fan that costs you some dough...

    2. Re:10c? by BlacBaron · · Score: 1

      Looking at how dusty it is, I'm not so sure :)

      --
      Update Watch - Automatic software update notification
    3. Re:10c? by brunson · · Score: 5, Funny

      I found a way to get huge performance increases out of my Saturn for only 5 dollars.

      I take this $5 towstrap and attach it to the back of this Viper... suddenly my 0-60 times are are cut in half and my mileage is through the roof!

      Thanks, Slashdot.

      --
      09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
      Jesus loves you, I think you suck
    4. Re:10c? by heavy+snowfall · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, but he's happy to tell you where to buy them.

      Approximate quote from TFA: "you can buy fans here ( http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-1651435-54502),
      This is just another case of Roland Piquepaille... Check out the top level of his domain too, it's just an ad site...

      1. Create site about obvious hack with refferer commision links.
      2. Post your site on high volume site like /.
      3. Profit.

      4. Piss me off for wasting my time. I even wasted my time typing this up, I'm sure some "people have a right to profit" dude will mod me down.

    5. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not a perfect analogy, but thanks for playing.
      Here's a copy of the home game, "Race to make the corniest, overplayed joke within the first five replies on Slashdot." What a title!

    6. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Screws?

    7. Re:10c? by Kenshin · · Score: 3, Funny

      4. Piss me off for wasting my time. I even wasted my time typing this up

      Yes, I can feel your frustration. That 10c your time was worth would have been much better spent buying a bracket for your fan.

      --

      Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    8. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. If you can get an article posted to Slashdot and people choose to follow links either in the article or from one of the sites linked to, more power to you. He can put whatever he wants on the linked-to site. Even ads for goatse.

      Btw, I don't like people who fail to use a spell checker. But I don't get pissed off for them wasting my time.

    9. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article is a little misleading. In most hardware stores that little bracket will cost more than 10 cents. And if you use only one bracket, you better make sure it's very tightly mounted or the rotation of the fan will make it flop all over the place.

    10. Re:10c? by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      Yeah, because people who want to cool their computer for 10 cents are really going to buy a damn fan online and pay shipping.

      In fact, almost everyone who builds their own computer has like four or five fans laying around.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    11. Re:10c? by DoraLives · · Score: 1
      In fact, almost everyone who builds their own computer has like four or five fans laying around.

      Funny how people like to gripe, ain't it? Hell, I've got a whole box of fans of all sizes sitting right here on the floor next to where I'm typing this. I repair computers for hire, repair compters for free (family and certain friends), and give computers away (to folks who otherwise wouldn't ever be able to own one), and as I throughput all that hardware (giveaways from here, there, and everywhere), I pluck everything that works and stash it. I'm guessing that there's more than just a few slashdotheads who do the same or similar. So yes, the fucked up fan is free, and no the fucked up bracket isn't.

      --
      Is it fascism yet?
    12. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it can be done for less. A bag of ice costs 5c at my local grocery.

    13. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pissed me off too, I *subscribe* to slashdot and have to see this.

    14. Re:10c? by heavy+snowfall · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.

      It gives slashdot an even lower signal to noise ratio.

      BTW, you forgot to capitalize your little acronym there. You're the wannabe Ferengi I guessed would mod me down, too bad you didn't have mod points today.

    15. Re:10c? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "4. Piss me off for wasting my time. I even wasted my time typing this up, I'm sure some "people have a right to profit" dude will mod me down."

      You should be modded down for raising a stink that nobody should give a flying fuck about.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    16. Re:10c? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if nobody should care, I guess i'd get a -1 Troll. Did I?

    17. Re:10c? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Well, if nobody should care, I guess i'd get a -1 Troll. Did I?"

      Whoop-de-fuck. These are the same people who'd mod you up for saying you hate Enterprise. Not only were mod points used for off-topic rantings, but the attention drawn to Roland has given Slashdot a reason to keep him. Or have you not noticed that little banner getting served on Slashdot's pages?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    18. Re:10c? by heavy+snowfall · · Score: 1

      Banner? What banner? I use adblock... :)

    19. Re:10c? by serutan · · Score: 1

      10 cents? I got ripped off! At my local Tru-Value these things are $.59 for a 2-pack.

  2. Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Did we really need an article on Slashdot to figure this one out? ;-)

    1. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a story posted by CowboyNeal what do you expect

    2. Re:Thanks by huber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No. But thats the beauty of slashdot.

    3. Re:Thanks by 2TecTom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Were you doing it? No, I thought not. Evidently then, yes, yes we did need a /. article.

      Actually, it's a clever hack in the true sense of the word, so yes, it's even somewhat approriate given the audience.

      Oh, and I've seen a lot worse from the /. tyrants. Democracy is such a great thing, it's just too bad we're never allowed to actually have it.

      --
      Words to men, as air to birds.
    4. Re:Thanks by chronicon · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the most obvious solutions are overlooked until someone shows you a picture...

      Quick, someone tell this guy to apply for a patent! ;-)

    5. Re:Thanks by denobug · · Score: 1

      Too late. He already posted it on /.

    6. Re:Thanks by kfg · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just wait until you see the next story, which extolls the incredible power of . . . string.

      KFG

    7. Re:Thanks by hawk · · Score: 1
      Just wait until tomorrow, when you see *this* story again.

      And for good measure, again on a week from Tuesday . . .

      :)

      hawk

    8. Re:Thanks by ericdano · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'd expect the article from Timothy or Zonk, but not CowboyNeal........

      --
      It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
      I moderate therefore I rule!
      --
    9. Re:Thanks by jackalope · · Score: 1

      According to current theoretical physics isn't everything made out of string?

      You know, String Theory?

    10. Re:Thanks by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      This is not a clever hack. As others have pointed out, this will cool the PCB, which is not where the heat is. The heat is in the drive mechanism itself; you cool it by cooling the sides and top of the case. The best way to accomplish this short of lapping the sides of the drive and attaching heat sinks (this would be the best option, probably) is to simply have one or more fans blowing air from the front of the drive to the back. My case has "room" for about eight 3.5x1" drives, and I have two installed, with a fan blowing over them. Your average case has such an accomodation for driving cooling these days; there are also many hard drive coolers that install in a half-height 5.25" bay, or sleds with cooling. That would actually be effective. This will do jack shit, except give you a warm fuzzy feeling due to the fact that the temperature sensor, which is attached to the PCB, will show a lower temperature than the actual temperature inside your drive.

      In addition, this will result in a fan hanging loose in your case, and probably vibrating.

      Short form: This hack is bullshit.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Thanks by elgatozorbas · · Score: 1
      Were you doing it? No, I thought not. Evidently then, yes, yes we did need a /. article.


      I was doing this 13 years ago: took the hood from the machine and put some additional fans on. And yes, if the problem were with my HD now, I would do it again. IMHO your reasoning makes little sense: it is not because I am not doing this (now) that I need the article to think of the idea.


      As a side remark: I would secure the fan a little better than using *one* possibly rotating point which could cause the fan to crash into my HD. Moreover the title is misleading (as others have pointed out) because obviously the cost is much higher.


      Apart from this: a genial hack.

    12. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sheesh, so move the fan to the other side, and use a couple of longer angle brackets

      it's still a clever hack imho

      1) creative
      2) effective
      3) inexpensive

      as well, one could easily use high quality, low noise, low profile fans

    13. Re:Thanks by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Personally, I would do it with plastic coated wire coathangers. They are even cheaper, they are coated which makes them absorb some sound, and you can bend them into any shape you like. With a little work you can make eyelets for screws, tabs that just poke into holes to hold things in place, et cetera. Another far-better material is plumber's tape, the strips of metal with holes through them. It can be had in several alloys including ordinary mild steel, stainless steel, and aluminum.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So for less than 10 cents and four hours of your labor you can have the same thing? Where do I sign up?

    15. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the first part to fail on modern hard drives? DING DING DING The PCB!

    16. Re:Thanks by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      In general, when I make something out of plumber's tape (usually a hose clamp or similar) it takes two snips with the tin snips and about ten seconds of bending it around with some pliers. That's the great thing about plumber's tape; rapid prototyping. The same is true of coathangers. I made a cradle to hang my palm pro from a vent in my car so I could fiddle with GPS software out of a white-coated coathanger. Worked like a charm, and looked much better than it sounds like it would.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re:Thanks by pla · · Score: 1

      Were you doing it? No, I thought not.

      Actually, yes, I do already use a similar technique - Or rather, one which I consider quite a bit better.

      Rather than just blowing already-warm air on a single drive, mount a 120mm fan on the outside front of the drive-cage, blowing inward (you might need to flip over one or two other case fans to blow outward to accomodate the change). Nice and quiet (I so love 120mm fans - great airflow at very low RPMs, thus almost silent), and my hardware monitor has never shown a HDD temp more than 10C above ambient.

    18. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you would you care to post a picture? How about some facts and fiqures? Maybe a webpage to let others see? No? I thought not ...

    19. Re:Thanks by pla · · Score: 1

      Maybe a webpage to let others see?

      I sense some sarcasm here, but really, what would you like pictures of? I have...

      a fan...
      mounted to...
      a computer.

      No spiffy lights, no UV-responsive wire-wraps (Never did get the point of those... I don't have a whole lot of UV coming from inside my case in the first place!), no chrome, nothing like that.

      Just four small holes drilled into the face of the case, with a 3" screw-and-nut through each (and the fan) to hold it in place.

      Imagination - Use it.

    20. Re:Thanks by MarkRose · · Score: 1

      I used to be a big fan of string to hold things together, but then I found a much better for of string that blew me away. Not do you have to tie knots to keep the ends together, but it even instantly shrinks to exactly the right size. I know this form of string is a bit more expensive, but I'm sure you'll agree the additional cost is well worth it when you try . . . the elastic band.

      --
      Be relentless!
  3. only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Uhh that sounds like Microsoft costing.

    MS: "We can help you serve customers for only 10c a day!"
    Manager: "woohoo. Approved!"
    MS: "So your bill is $36.50 for the first year, plus $899 site license, plus $299 Windows licenses for each CPU plus $1599 service contract plus...."

    1. Re:only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like the system doesn't have a "fan". BAZING!!!

    2. Re:only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      you open source zealots are so funny, I always find a chuckle on how the most un-related a topic is to MS you find a way to spin it. No wonder I stick with BSD

    3. Re:only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Deagol · · Score: 5, Interesting
      (I think that the article was worth while, and I'll personally take ths simple idea into account when trying to rig a new box on the cheap.)

      But back to the parent post...

      It *is* kinda funny, the 10-cent claim. I read a lot of those backwoods and country living kinds of managzines. They're usually full of great projects that the average person can usually pull off to some degree.

      What kills me is often the low-cost claims: "Build a central, forced-air wood heating system for only $10 !" Sounds really cool, until you read the article and find that the person already had a house's worth of air duct on-hand, an arc welder, and a friend who gave him enough plate steel for the furnace in exchange for a dozen eggs and a case of beer. :)

      These articles are still great, as they illustrate the make-due-with-what-you-have mentaility. However, a little truth in advertising would be appreciated. :)

    4. Re:only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually it is closer to linux costing :-)buy linux its free and will save you a fortune. then when they take the bait, that will be 2,000 per server for support please.

    5. Re:only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      make-due-with-what-you-have

      Good GOD, man! How do you get "due" out of "do"???

    6. Re:only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Deagol · · Score: 1

      Posting to slashdot before my morning caffeinated beverage. My mistake. :)

    7. Re:only 10c for a bracket. Oh and a fan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      1 cup ammonia (~$2.50/gal at hardware stores)
      1/2 cup distilled white vinegar (~$2.50/gal)
      1/4 cup baking soda (~$1/box)
      1 gallon water (pennies)

      Makes an awesome all-purpose cleaner for mopping, cleaning up around the kitchen, etc. It's basically non-toxic, and it's lots cheaper than most pre-prepared cleaners. The smell of the ammonia isn't too bad, and it goes away quickly.

      Adding the baking soda to the vinegar in 1 gal water makes a quick reaction with some bubbles that fade quickly, so don't worry about those grade-school volcanos.

  4. Wow. by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Who knew you could attach things to other things using a bracket and screws? Thanks again Slashdot.

    --
    Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
    1. Re:Wow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who knew you could attach things to other things using a bracket and screws? Thanks again Slashdot.

      Most of us (excusing those few who statistically show up all the time and can't manage to tie shoelaces).

      What most of us mightn't have realised is that a cheap & nasty solution works so much better for its intended job than some of the pricey (but flashy!) fixes.

    2. Re:Wow. by Rs_Conqueror · · Score: 1
      What most of us mightn't have realised is that a cheap & nasty solution works so much better for its intended job than some of the pricey (but flashy!) fixes.

      Who says a fan can't be flashy? Just get a UV reactive LED fan.

    3. Re:Wow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Heh. This reminds me of the Sparc2 drive upgrade trick. They didn't have enough cooling for significantly larger hard drives. But with a drill, a careful eye, and a stencil of a newer and larger fan, you could put in a new fan of similar size and twice the capacity and upgrade the heck out of the Sparc2 disk drive.

    4. Re:Wow. by kfg · · Score: 1

      I take it your not the sort who grew up viewing trash day as a major holiday?

      Two words dude: "Duct Tape."

      Oh, and get thee hence and obtain a copy of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." Pay particular attention the bit about making valve shims.

      KFG

    5. Re:Wow. by i+wanted+another+nam · · Score: 1

      So dude, do you mean like, real valve stems, or like, metaphysical ones, dude?

      --
      The image is a dream, the beauty is real. Can you see the difference?
    6. Re:Wow. by kfg · · Score: 1

      So dude, do you mean like, real valve stems, or like, metaphysical ones, dude?

      Yes. That's the point.

      KFG

    7. Re:Wow. by fbjon · · Score: 1

      About your sig... are you talking about porn?

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  5. In other news... by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your data called.
    It wants the integrity of its magnetic field back.

    1. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Stop spreading urban legends. Magnetic fields no more hurt a HD in reality than they hurt humans (and yes, a large magnetic field can kill a person, but you don't get those from HD fans either).

      Also, newer fans don't emit any magnetic field at all, as they don't use electric motors

    2. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What DO newer fans use? Gravity waves?

    3. Re:In other news... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 5, Informative

      The magnetic field produced by a small DC fan might not be enough to faze the platter. It takes a magnetic field of a certain strength to make a change in the data bits.

      I have a few Compaq Xeon workstations that placed the drives transversely in front of the system power supply so cooling air can pass between the drives. I have yet to see a problem. It's designed to cool 15k RPM drives very quietly. The PSU fan itself is a slower 12cm fan, placed on the intake of the PSU, only a few cm away from the drive's edges. It's very quiet for a PC, and very impressively quiet for a system with a 15k RPM drive in it.

    4. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      They're Tip-Magnetic Driven... oh wait.

    5. Re:In other news... by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 1

      Tell that to these guys

    6. Re:In other news... by HungSoLow · · Score: 1

      If you're going to those lengths to erase your data, almost certainly rendering the HD unusable, why not take the cheaper way out and use a hammer?

    7. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And over a long period of time, a marginal magnetic field could do... what again? Flip a bit here and there, as opposed to a bulk erase?

    8. Re:In other news... by PDAllen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you're going to those lengths, you probably aren't just some random person who wants to stop his pr0n collection being discovered. Hammers do not reliably erase data; sure, the discs may be bent and the HD itself is never going to work again, but you'd still be able to get a competent disaster recovery specialist to get at least 90% of the data off the disc.

      That said, if you're being paranoid then railway thermite (melts, doesn't explode) is cheap and very effective. Open the case, pour thermite powder in all round, use a mag ribbon to light it and no data will be coming off that disc.

    9. Re:In other news... by pegr · · Score: 4, Funny

      Also, newer fans don't emit any magnetic field at all, as they don't use electric motors

      I give up... Hampters?

    10. Re:In other news... by neverpsyked · · Score: 5, Informative

      A boss of mine who used to work for Air Force Intel told me that the magnetic field used to de-gauss an HDD had to be about as strong as a car-lifting magnet. I seriously doubt that the field generated by an 80mm fan is even enough to penetrate the steel housing of the drive (maybe not even the circuit board, since it's bottom-mounted).

      --
      What if this weren't a hypothetical question?
    11. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is HAMSTER, there is no P...

    12. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It is HAMSTER, there is no P...

      unless it is a _female_ hamster....

    13. Re:In other news... by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Ok.
      1st, youi are right, you need more than a little motor to damage the data on a hd. A LOT more.

      But... The rest of you posting is more than a bit stupid:
      How strong to you think a magnetic field would be to damage humans? A NMR uses 2-4 tesla without problems, and the only reason you dont tune than higher is that we cannot without wasting tons of energy/contruction cost. We currently cannot produce stable magnetic field that would damage human tissue (in our university, we have one of the strongest NMR in europe, they put live samples into 13T and they are still alive after)

      Also: please show me the fan that uses a non electic motor. I REALLY wanna see it.

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    14. Re:In other news... by ToasterofDOOM · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. My friend's genius of a little brother has successfully killed a CRT monitor, and HDD, and plenty o other computer parts with a magnetic screwdriver.

      --
      I am Spartacus
    15. Re:In other news... by Stonent1 · · Score: 1

      No I'm sure they spin using fairy flux.

    16. Re:In other news... by FUKUSHU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You sir are retarded. and I quote "newer fans don't emit any magnetic field at all, as they don't use electric motors" WTF do you think make the fan blades spin?! telekenisis?! A strong feeling that it'll work?! The only difference between modern fans and old stile is that the "motor" is on the fan itself instead of in the middle with the fan mounted on a rotating drive shaft. What's really wrong with people now a days? do they not teach anything in school anymore, or is our society doomed to being ruled by waterheads?!

    17. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative


      It doesn't have to de-gauss the HDD. All it has to do is fry the ever-so-sensitive CMOS circuitry that interfaces with the platters. It's not going to take a lot...

      I've managed, unfortunately, to fry a pda that way. Pda was in my pants pocket. I was drilling holes in my wall. The EM field from the drill fried the motherboard. And they weren't that close together...

    18. Re:In other news... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1


      Also: please show me the fan that uses a non electic motor. I REALLY wanna see it.

      Go to the airptort and look at the things hanging off the wings. They are all fans powered by non-electric motors.

      Of course they might be a bit noisy for your computer case.

    19. Re:In other news... by phasm42 · · Score: 1

      I've been doing this for a while now (I just used cover plates on each side with holes drilled in them instead of a bracket), and I'm sure that the dinky field put out by a fan is nothing compared to the super strong magnet present in the hard drive itself.

      --
      "No one likes working in a hamster wheel, and your shop smells of cedar shavings from here." - TaleSpinner
    20. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I give up. An online network for distributing ham?

    21. Re:In other news... by Harinezumi · · Score: 2, Funny
      I beg to differ. My friend's genius of a little brother has successfully killed a CRT monitor, and HDD, and plenty o other computer parts with a magnetic screwdriver.

      ... by stabbing them repeatedly with it?

    22. Re:In other news... by igny · · Score: 0

      the magnetic field used to de-gauss an HDD had to be about as strong as a car-lifting magnet.

      Or, if applied in the right place, it could be as strong the a hand of a compass.

      --
      In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
    23. Re:In other news... by sharp_blue · · Score: 1

      Go to the airptort and look at the things hanging off the wings. They are all fans powered by non-electric motors.

      Of course they might be a bit noisy for your computer case.

      And its exhaust a little bit too hot for cooling HDs, perhaps?

    24. Re:In other news... by igny · · Score: 1

      a small DC fan

      Doesn't 2000rpm fan produce 2kHz electromagnetic wave regardless of the current?

      --
      In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
    25. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your friend was talking about the platters. He wasn't talking about permanently ruining the other electronics found on a hard drive. That can take a significantly weaker magnetic field.

    26. Re:In other news... by adolf · · Score: 0

      News flash: Hard drives are not made of steel, though the top cover might sometimes be stainless (which, of course, has little to do with conventional steel...).

      Second news flash: Even if they were, flat steel is a very poor way to provide magnetic shielding. It really does almost nothing at all...

      Third news flash: Inside every modern hard drive is a set of bloody strong neodymium magnets, in order for the head mechanism to do its thing. The platters are RIGHT NEXT TO THESE, and things seem to work fine.

      The Air Force anecdote might be valid, but backing it up with your own wild conjecture is not helpful to the reader. A better explanation for a crowd such as Slashdot should be to include a reference to magnetic permeability and Google, and let that be that (but then again, this is an article on using brackets to mount things).

      I give you a C.

    27. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can make motors that work on electrostatic principles, that use the electric field to drive the motor instead of a magnetic field. This is how many "nanotech" motors work. However, since full scale motors like this need a high voltage supply (~10kv) in order to run, it's certainly not the most convienant thing to use inside a computer...

    28. Re:In other news... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the same amount of air has to pass through the intake, and you don't need to put the drives on the exhaust side. I think you just lost the creative engineering contest.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    29. Re:In other news... by dan42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the magnetic field would oscilate proportional to the number of stators times the RPM... and of course there are harmonics.

      There could also be much higher frequency EM emmisions depending on it's make-up (eg. PWM switcher for speed control).

      But I'm sure neither of these are as intense as the 10,000 RMP high curent motor that spins the platters.

    30. Re:In other news... by Lispy · · Score: 1

      Offtopic, but has anyone ever taken a HD apart? Last time I did this there were two of the strongest magnets I ever saw in there. I am still clueless how the data integrity is kept with these so close to the platters. Well, I could have looked this up maybe.. ;-)

    31. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mostly just quibbling over nomenclature, but I think you mean MRI, not NMR. For an NMR spectrometer, 13T is nice but hardly anything to brag about (eg. > 18T is pretty common these days). For an MRI instrument 13T is fairly kickass.

    32. Re:In other news... by tzanger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doesn't 2000rpm fan produce 2kHz electromagnetic wave regardless of the current?

      No.

      the magnetic field in any motor is VERY tightly coupled. Use a magnetometer (I think that's the name of the instrument anyway) -- you'll be hard pressed to find any significant magnetic field near a motor. And I'm talking about the thousands of horsepower motors industry uses, not the tiny little impedance-protected DC motors in your computer.

      Similarly, you can't set up a coil and pull power from the high tension lines running around the nation -- the three phases are in close proximity to each other (at least relative to you on the ground) and their magnetic fields cancel out. If you can get close enough to one of the lines you can induce a bit of power and run some lights... we had a snowmobile hut that had "free power" for lights by doing this.

    33. Re:In other news... by texaport · · Score: 1

      designed to cool 15k RPM drives very quietly

      I thought the point to having a rack of high RPM drives is that any fan
      solution would be inaudible next to the din of 250 revs per second.

    34. Re:In other news... by tzanger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've managed, unfortunately, to fry a pda that way. Pda was in my pants pocket. I was drilling holes in my wall. The EM field from the drill fried the motherboard. And they weren't that close together...

      Bullshit. I am an embedded systems designer and there's no way in hell your drill induced enough of an EM field to generate significant current in the traces of your PDA's mainboard. The stuff I design is strapped on to heatsink with thousands of Amps running through it without any kind of EMC protection and it runs flawlessly. Static discharge is more likely than not the cause of that particular failure.

    35. Re:In other news... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      There are loud 15k RPM drives, but my drives are surprisingly quiet, quieter than a Shuttle case fan, but that isn't saying much. I have a single 15k RPM drive as the boot drive in my HTPC. The quiet flow of air through the fans is louder than the hard drive.

      As it is, Seagate's 2.5" Savvio 10k RPM SCSI drives were tested to be quieter by Storage Review than even Seagate's 3.5" 7.2k RPM desktop drives.

    36. Re:In other news... by tzanger · · Score: 1

      Or, if applied in the right place, it could be as strong the a hand of a compass.

      Sure, but if you've got the lid off the drive you've got bigger problems anyway.

      Besides, that HDD "degausser" is likely to render the HDD useless anyway; you'd have to re-low-level-format the HDD to put all the cylinder indexes back on the platters.

    37. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I find something wrong with the concept of peer to peer ham. And some may say that I have an unhealthy fascination with ham. Actually, I just like the word. Well, the meat is good too, but the word is what's really awesome. Try it sometime... go up to your friends and or loved ones and say ham. If it's a girlfriend, trace your finger down her shoulder while doing it. Say "Ham" with a mournful tone. Then try it in an excited tone. Then try seductive. But peer to peer ham? Wrong.

    38. Re:In other news... by SA+Stevens · · Score: 1

      The super strong magnet in the drive itself is installed in a tightly closed-loop arrangement. How the stray fields in a fan motor spread will vary wildly depending on the fan used and how it's mounted.

    39. Re:In other news... by SA+Stevens · · Score: 1

      Or just open the drive, remove the disks, and belt-sand off all the oxide.

      People go all nuts with the whole drive, when it's just the platters that need to be destroyed.

    40. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The concept is solid. Don't mock hampter! We need to take control away from the big ham conglomerates!

    41. Re:In other news... by SA+Stevens · · Score: 1

      The fan gets it's power from a 'pickup mechanism' that grabs kinetic energy from the rotation of the earth. The same force that makes the water swirl in a drain.

      When explaining this to 'mere mortal' computer users, also urge them to bring their hard drive into the auto repair shop and have holes tapped and grease fittings added.

    42. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Noooo... if it's a two-pole fan, it creates a 33.3333Hz rotating field. A four-pole is 66.6666, and so forth.

    43. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there is a GIANT MAGNET inside your drive. i don't think a little fan is going to screw it up.

    44. Re:In other news... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      And its exhaust a little bit too hot for cooling HDs, perhaps?

      Well, they have three basic models. One kind has an internal shrouded fan powered by a turbine (turbo fan), another has external fan blades powered by a turbine (tuboprop) and the third kind has external fan blades powered by a piston engine. Only the first kind would have a temperature problem.

    45. Re:In other news... by xSauronx · · Score: 1

      im sorry i barely finished high school......waterwhats???

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
    46. Re:In other news... by FUKUSHU · · Score: 1

      Water heads...tis a term used to describe retards

    47. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Go to the airptort and look at the things hanging off the wings.

      What sort of weirdly built airport is this that has wings?

    48. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      A boss of mine who used to work for Air Force Intel told me that

      OMFG!!! Intel has an air force!!! Does Microsoft have a navy?

    49. Re:In other news... by Jerf · · Score: 1

      Static discharge is more likely than not the cause of that particular failure.

      I can confirm that. I had to give up Palm Pilots because I'd kill them in about eight months with simple static discharges while in my pocket, some of which I could feel. Drilling may have created static; in the right environments (very dry), almost any motion can generate static, even some rather surprising ones.

      (It got very dry in the dorms. I'd probably be OK now that I'm out of that environment. On the other hand, even in my subsequent apartments I had to go wireless with my laptop because I kept blasting network hubs with static discharge while hooking them up to my laptop. Fortunately I haven't killed any network equipment since then.)

    50. Re:In other news... by theborg1of4 · · Score: 0

      If this was true, then how come the motor that turns the hard drive spindle doesn't corrupt the data? It's far closer than a cooling fan and works at up to 10,000 RPM depending on the drive.

    51. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet you totally missed the lack of the letter s.

    52. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to see some documentation about a magnetic field being able to kill someone. Humans are entirely non-magnetic in their natural state.

      And anyone who talks about magnets and iron in your blood will be smacked with the "get a clue" stick from every biologist out there...

    53. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I'm not sure what I'm talking about here, but...

      The brain depends on ions moving short distances at relatively low speeds. However, in a strong enough magnetic field, any moving ions will have a force applied to them. Also, a changing magnetic field will produce an electric field, which will accelerate the ions in the brain...

      Also, in a strong enough magnetic field (and I mean *strong*), I imagine wierd stuff happens to atoms... I'd say it's almost certain that a magnetic field would change the energy states of some chemicals, and, for example, change the way certain protiens behave.

      Also, according to Scientific American, in *extremely* large magnetic fields (near magnetars), electrons get totally f***ed up and humans most certainly cannot survive.

      I'm guessing all of these are much larger fields than you are thinking of, but bear this in mind: some animals (e.g. birds) are capable of detecting the earths magnetic field. They don't have chunks of iron in their skulls. Thus biological compounds/structures can be sensitive to magnetic fields.

    54. Re:In other news... by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 1

      FUCK no.

      2000 revolutions per MINUTE is approximately 33.3 revolutions per second; 33.3 Hz.

      --

      ---
      Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
      (I read with sigs off.)
    55. Re:In other news... by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Mr Faraday called; he said your data is fine so long as you leave it in its cage.

    56. Re:In other news... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      And over a long period of time, a marginal magnetic field could do... what again? Flip a bit here and there, as opposed to a bulk erase?

      I don't think it will necessarily flip a bit any more than a refrigerator magnet might pull the nails out of the wall, you need a certain amount of field strength to do that and DC motors just don't. Heck, there are magnetic motors in the hard drives themselves so I guess they are causing problems too?

      Computers have had a lot of fans in and around them for a long time and to my knowledge, no detrimental effect has been found. Heck, when I assembled computers, I remembered a lot of computers that had unshielded PC speakers on the bottom side of the drive cage, or otherwise just below the drive mount location. Has any problem become of that?

      Magnetic materials need to have a certain amount of magnetic field in order to have its polarity even nudged, anything below that level is immaterial.

    57. Re:In other news... by ToasterofDOOM · · Score: 1

      Simply by dissassembling them ... but i bet that would get the job done too

      --
      I am Spartacus
    58. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While sitting on a train listening to my walkman.. way back when. One guy pulled out a CB set about 5m away from me and started was showing some child how it worked. Any time he pushed the transmit button the electric motor in my walkman would stop. Now thats what I call EMF!

    59. Re:In other news... by SPY_jmr1 · · Score: 1

      Good sir, I do believe a rimshot is in order here... For it seems you've been played like a violin.

    60. Re:In other news... by FUKUSHU · · Score: 1

      Yes of course, how could I have not seen it? Logic dictates that one should be ferosiously licked around the anus when they have been played! LOL!

    61. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. I am an embedded systems designer and there's no way in hell your drill induced enough of an EM field to generate significant current in the traces of your PDA's mainboard. The stuff I design is strapped on to heatsink with thousands of Amps running through it without any kind of EMC protection and it runs flawlessly. Static discharge is more likely than not the cause of that particular failure.

      I am the person who originally mentioned frying my pda with an electric drill. (I really should get an account.) Permit me to respond:

      1. Agreed: It would take a significant magnetic field, moving at that, to cause any noticable current in the traces on the PDA's mainboard.

      2. An electric drill -- of the non-cordless variety -- throws out just such an EM field. Try firing one up next to your monitor. (At the risk of advertising my age -- this is slashdot, I know better than to say dating myself -- back in the old days this was considered one way to manually de-gauss a monitor. Move an electric drill under power back and forth around the edges. It worked, after a fashion. Or at least we got a neat light show out of it.)

      3. Throwing a little current into the traces is not what you have to worry about. It's the CMOS chips. A changing EM field can induce a current in the silicon itself, as well as the wires leading to it. It doesn't take a lot to fry one. As in you won't even feel the electric shock.

      4. I don't know what you're designing, but I generally don't run current through my heatsinks. At thousands of amps, your heat loss is going to be enormous (RI^2). What voltage are you running at? Is it some ultra-low-voltage ultra-high-current app? Or are you in some massive industrial environment? Is your heatsink between your circuit and the powerline? Is it acting as a faraday shield? Is the current AC or DC? Is it changing over time? Is your circuit moving relative to the powerline? Or have you avoided that whole inductive currents issue? Are you really sticking CMOS right next to a strong inductive field with no shielding? Not even a little pig iron? Or are you using TTL or other, more robust, less sensitive, components?

      5. Back when I used to work in the magnetometer lab, we had serious problems with inductive noise. It's amazing how many sources there are. Then again, we were working at the sub-microvolt level. Ventilation moving the wires caused us noise. Still, I earned my stripes on unwanted inductively and capacitively coupling fields.

      6. Static: Hmm. Lets see here. Pda works fine. It goes in my pocket. Completely encased in plastic. I drill a hole in my baseboard down next to the floor. Pull some cable. (Just like any other slashdotter on a Saturday night.) Half an hour later I'm done, I go to use the pda, and it's dead. The drill can put a light show on my monitor. It was a similar distance from the pda. In something like, what, 5+ years, none of my pdas, my SO's pdas, our respective family's pdas, nor our friends pdas have ever died from static. You do the math.

      7. One footnote: It typical slashdot fashion I found someone who sat on their pda (same model) cracking the screen. Bought it for a couple of bucks. Swapped the motherboards. And everything was happy again.

      You will notice from the pictures in that linked article that the authors are happily placing their motor right next to the drive control board, just above those ever-so-sensitive chips. Granted, that fan isn't going to throw out anything like a electric drill under heavy load. Still, better them than me, that's all I can say.

    62. Re:In other news... by FUKUSHU · · Score: 1

      For that matter, if you drop a magnetic field around ANYTHING containing even the most trace amounts of any magnetic substance...say IRON. it WILL have an effect. Now granted you would have to have one hell of a magnet to cause someone to even notice it, and if you wanted to just tear the trace amounts of iron out of a persons body well...theoretically it is possible, but not probable...

    63. Re:In other news... by rew · · Score: 1

      Magnetic fields get stronger the closer you get. If the magnet you use is 1cm, then the magnetic field doesn't get much strong when you get closer than say 1mm. So a harddrive uses a TINY (electro-)magnet, and then funnels the magnetic field even smaller.

      Magnetic field strenghts are pretty enormous there.

      The magnetic fields in a BLDC motor are very moderate.

      Try writing some (unimportant) data to a floppy and sticking the floppy onto the fridge with a magnet. You'll be surprised that in most cases, you will still be able to read the data afterwards. And compared to a harddrive, a floppy has an ENORMOUS head, and thus a very small fieldstrength.

    64. Re:In other news... by tzanger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      An electric drill -- of the non-cordless variety -- throws out just such an EM field. Try firing one up next to your monitor. (At the risk of advertising my age -- this is slashdot, I know better than to say dating myself -- back in the old days this was considered one way to manually de-gauss a monitor. Move an electric drill under power back and forth around the edges. It worked, after a fashion. Or at least we got a neat light show out of it.)

      The EM field you see on your monitor is not capable of inducing any serious current into anything; (cheap) monitors are extremely sensitive to any magnetic field. Even your flexible fridge magnets have enough of a field to cause deflection errors. You can also confirm that the drill's field is NOT far-reaching just by noticing how much reduced the effect is even 6 inches away.

      Throwing a little current into the traces is not what you have to worry about. It's the CMOS chips. A changing EM field can induce a current in the silicon itself, as well as the wires leading to it. It doesn't take a lot to fry one. As in you won't even feel the electric shock.

      This is where I can tell that you have some electricity knowlege but it's only "enough to be dangerous." -- Yes, CMOS is sensitive but it is sensitive because of the extremely thin oxide later at the junction of the FETs. Static electricity can punch through this oxide layer at extraordinarily low potentials. Magnetic fields can damage equipment by induction. If it hasn't got enough power to induce signficant current in the traces, it ain't gonna do shit to the (much much much smaller) traces on the dies. ICs (CMOS or otherwise) are far more likely to die from static than induced currents simply because it's rather hard to get a strong enough magnetic field coupled to the circuit board in such a way to generate a damaging current.

      I don't know what you're designing, but I generally don't run current through my heatsinks. At thousands of amps, your heat loss is going to be enormous (RI^2). What voltage are you running at? Is it some ultra-low-voltage ultra-high-current app? Or are you in some massive industrial environment? Is your heatsink between your circuit and the powerline? Is it acting as a faraday shield? Is the current AC or DC? Is it changing over time? Is your circuit moving relative to the powerline? Or have you avoided that whole inductive currents issue? Are you really sticking CMOS right next to a strong inductive field with no shielding? Not even a little pig iron? Or are you using TTL or other, more robust, less sensitive, components?

      Industrial motion controllers, soft starters and VFDs. Unbelievably noisy environments and no, the only thing between the heat sink and the circuit board is a sheet of 3/8" Lexan. It's all AC (at least in, we do some DC conversion for oddball applications, startup current is typically 3-6x the running (steady-state) current, and fault currents can be thousands of times nominal, although part of the job of the controller is to prevent them. The ICs on the board are almost exclusively CMOS (PICs, Motorola 683XX, op-amps, ADCs, etc.). The heat sink is used as the conductor, it sandwiches the high current "hockey puck" style SCRs. (it's been a while since I've seen a large VFD but I think they still use the brick style modules.)

      Back when I used to work in the magnetometer lab, we had serious problems with inductive noise. It's amazing how many sources there are. Then again, we were working at the sub-microvolt level. Ventilation moving the wires caused us noise. Still, I earned my stripes on unwanted inductively and capacitively coupling fields.

      Yes; if you're trying to measure tiny voltages you are in for a rough ride; one of the engineers here used to build detectors for tiny tiny currents. The measurement table was not only stabilized but had to be isolated from the rest of the room for motion. All the wires had to be taped down and immobilized or their motion would induce (ti

    65. Re:In other news... by msim · · Score: 1

      A few years ago i used to work in a govt department and the head unix admin had an interesting silver blob as a paperweight on his desk.

      When i asked him what it was from he told me that is used to be the hard drive from the department directors laptop.

      (as a side note) He also told me they had fun with hard disk RMA's on their servers as standard practice was hard drives come in, but they never came out.

      I was told the ISguys used to put a 1/4 inch drill through the hard disk and the platter a half dozen times on the lower security servers just to make sure it wasnt going to be used again in any hurry.

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    66. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's been something bugging me about this, and it just clicked!

      Even with all that current, those thousands of amps, you've got a zero-turn inductor. You're not throwing out that much of a magnetic field!

      The drill, on the other hand, is a motor. A big coil (inductor) with lots of turns. It has a huge nasty magnetic field generating enough force to rip your arm off. Or drill a 2.5" hole through hardwood baseboard with a spade bit.

      That magnetic field is not contained by a soft-iron core. It's not shielded. The motor throws it out, all over the place.

      What's more, the field changes with respect to time.

      This could easily induce secondary currents in nearby electronics. Particularly if any of the circuit traces formed a loop (1 or more turns inductor).

  6. Good for one drive but ... by black_rock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    what about when you have several drives or a tiny case?

    1. Re:Good for one drive but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You to mount this on the outside of the case and that should solve all of your cooling problems.

    2. Re:Good for one drive but ... by TheoMurpse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's about as logical a complaint about this article as "sure, I can play music on an iPod, but what happens if I'm deaf?"

      Answer: you can't use this hack in your case.

    3. Re:Good for one drive but ... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Someone should hack the iPod to display lyrics, so deaf people can use them.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  7. Re:Great! by shreevatsa · · Score: 1

    Pay attention. That's hard drive cooling the article mentions, not processor cooling.
    Most of the noise on most computers is because of the noisy fan that cools the processor, it has nothing to do with hard drive cooling.

  8. Yeah! by ArAgost · · Score: 5, Funny

    *This* is top-grade engineering! This could be used to cool down spacecraft re-entering earth atmosphere :|

    1. Re:Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At 10 cents per shuttle? You bet!

    2. Re:Yeah! by Solder+Fumes · · Score: 1

      No, 10 cents time however many tiles the Shuttle has, plus a power supply big enough to run all the fans.

      Heck, if they used reversible fans, the Shuttle could be a VTOL!

    3. Re:Yeah! by mickwd · · Score: 1

      Yeah, just like old planes used to have a large fan on the front to keep them cool ;)

    4. Re:Yeah! by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      Those old fans were extremely dangerous. If a plane rammed you, they could chop you into little bits.

      That's why they moved them to the wings, and eventually put them inside little tubes. They have a big-ass heatsink running out the length of the wings to behind the fans.

      Incidently, airplanes only need those while they are standing still. When they're moving, the wind will cool them.

      So what they really need to do is just build giant catapults and not start the plane until it's in the air. You'd think the military would do this, they already have something like that on aircraft carriers, but sadly they're aimed level and thus the airplane wouldn't have time to boot up before hitting the water if it wasn't already running.

      And there are too many legacy airports now.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  9. Cheap hard drive cooler by Sir+Lurkalot · · Score: 0

    Cool! :^D

  10. Need more then just that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you'll find in the long run that a single bracket like that isn't enough support. The metal in those brackets is cheap.

    1. Re:Need more then just that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the vibrations.

  11. Such an innovation! by tinrobot · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why didn't anyone think of this before?

    Oh wait... every geek in the world has done this, or something close to it. I've used all sorts of hardware store parts to mount fans inside cases as have hordes of other geeks over the decades.

    1. Re:Such an innovation! by tuxforever · · Score: 0

      You are exactly right, sir. I remember using twist-ties to accomplish something very similar to this, as I was fresh out of grub screws. Worked like a charm, as long as you NEVER moved the case lol.

    2. Re:Such an innovation! by corngrower · · Score: 1

      I use a wire wrap from a loaf of bread to attach my disk-cooling fan. Cost: My Time. ( The fan was from a discarded old PC )

    3. Re:Such an innovation! by Mr.+KFM · · Score: 0

      In order to keep my fans standing in my case, I used folded up strips of paper taped to the side of the mounting ports to keep it standing so I could move the case around and it would stay standing up.

      --

      If all else fails... RTFM

    4. Re:Such an innovation! by Mr.+KFM · · Score: 0

      I just realized how many times I used the word 'standing'

      --

      If all else fails... RTFM

    5. Re:Such an innovation! by SA+Stevens · · Score: 1

      I use hot glue to mount the heat sink on my Pentium Pro processor.

  12. Classic case of a measurement mistaken for reality by arivanov · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well... Most S.M.A.R.T. temperature sensors are on the PCB and they are measuring PCB temperature instead of the internal drive temperature.

    Hence, a fan under the disk makes a lot of difference while making very little to make your data safer.

    A 3x 40mm fan battery in front of a drive or a pressed enclosure that cools the actual package holding the platters makes a lot of difference there while not chaning the S.M.A.R.T. reading by more then a degree or so.

    It is up to you - what do you want. Show (a good reading) or substance (good temperature of your drive platters and heads).

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  13. I think the sentence you're looking for is... by phunqe · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Anyway..."

  14. Vibration by darkwiz · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you decide to go with this kind of setup, try to make sure you use a fan with low vibration (well balanced, low speed). The last thing you need with a hard drive is more vibration. The drive head is only flying a few hundred molecules above the drive surface.

    It may not amount to much as the vibration needs to be of the right frequency to be really bad. But it is probably better to err on the side of caution with drive lifetimes already being as bad as they are.

    I personally use a 120mm fan that is mounted on rubber pegs, perpendicular to the hard drives, but not mounted to the drives themselves. This way, less vibration is transferred to the drives.

    1. Re:Vibration by mc6809e · · Score: 1

      If you decide to go with this kind of setup, try to make sure you use a fan with low vibration (well balanced, low speed). The last thing you need with a hard drive is more vibration. The drive head is only flying a few hundred molecules above the drive surface.

      Most drives can stand the head being somewhat jarred up and down perpendicular to the platters, but any vibration that tends to move the head laterally can increase the time it takes to seek a track.

      Yes, vibrations of a sort can actually reduce drive performance.

      That said, I think it might be difficult to get a fan that vibrated enough to make much difference. But a server next to an airport or construction site might see an effect.

    2. Re:Vibration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      I use a large diameter steel/concrete structure mounted to a large marble seam underground here. A network of seismometers and a small neural network allows me to maintain the upper half of the steel/concrete at a fixed point relative to the center of the Earth, assuming a spherical model. Brackets attach the drives to the fixed structure, and my case sits around the drives, but never actually touches them.

    3. Re:Vibration by shawnce · · Score: 1

      The drive head is only flying a few hundred molecules above the drive surface.

      Are we talking water or beta-galactosidase molecules here? ;-)

    4. Re:Vibration by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      That's idiotic. What if everyone in China jumps up and down at the same time, thus moving the earth in its orbit? (That is, jumping up moves it, and landing moves it back.)

      Can your system cope with the entire earth moving 'up' and then 'down' several inches?

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    5. Re:Vibration by evilviper · · Score: 3, Interesting
      That's idiotic. What if everyone in China jumps up and down at the same time, thus moving the earth in its orbit?

      Simple, we'll outsource the job to India, paying them to jump up at the same time the Chinese land, and land the same time the Chinese jump.

      With the nearly identical population size, and geographical proximity, this should counteract the forces, or perhaps send the earth hurtling into the sun... Either way.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    6. Re:Vibration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's actually a good point. It might be more worthwhile to keep the drives on a satellite orbiting Earth with rockets to maintain a low-acceleration atmosphere. Another system of cheaper, replaceable satellites could provide communication, so there's no need to place the drive satellite in geosynchronous orbit. I can place it _way_ out there.

      Another ring of satellites could watch for large chunks of debris so that my satellite could maneuver out of the way. Small chunks of debris can be handled by placing six rockets spaced around the satellite (spaced like on cube faces) and always having them on. If the energy is high enough, the energy dust particles emparts could be tossed out.

      I'll upgrade the communication network to ansibles, when they invent them.

    7. Re:Vibration by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      Simple, we'll outsource the job to India, paying them to jump up at the same time the Chinese land, and land the same time the Chinese jump.

      That wouldn't work, unless people in India are already hovering in midair, and you can cause them to fall and then leap back up and rehover on command.

      Wait a minute. If everyone in India fall to the floor when the Chinese jump, and then quickly leap back up...that just might work. You could even figure out which direction they need to fall in, to counteract the fact China and India are not in exactly the same place.

      In fact, they may just need to lean one way, and then back.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    8. Re:Vibration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The corrolary to this is that we never need to worry about China gaining technological or economical dominance any time soon, as we just need to get *our* entire population to jump at the same time, erasing all their hard drives.

      Soon we'll be locked in a struggle of mutually assured data loss with each country having its population ready to jump on a hair trigger.

    9. Re:Vibration by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Oh man, look at the crap posts that are getting moderated as +1 Insightful.

      Oh wait, I posted that! Forget I said anything. Good moderators... I LOVE /. moderators.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    10. Re:Vibration by G-funk · · Score: 1

      Gold jerry, roundtine... Every chinese jumping up and down is a bit short of one kiloton of energy (yeah i know, an SI unit would be nice). Spread over the area in china, you'd be hard-pressed to know it happend here in australia with a seismograph i imagine.

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
    11. Re:Vibration by G-funk · · Score: 1

      Hmm, a link would be nice. Good one funk, you poof. My bad.

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
  15. HD Cooling? by MankyD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've seen a few HD coolers. This seems to work alright.

    My question is - why? I guess I've never really heard of anyone over-cloking there hd's. Do they really overheat? How can you tell? When should you worry about it?

    --
    -dave
    http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
    1. Re:HD Cooling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      > Do they really overheat? How can you tell? When should you worry about it?

      Yes. Touch them. Now.

    2. Re:HD Cooling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Some 7500RPM or higher drives that aren't well engineered can overheat in small spaces.

      I personally had a Western Digital 80gb harddrive overheat and cause errors in a normal midtower. (Several of my friends had the same problem with the same model)

      Since then my addage is if it's 7500rpm or higher put some fans on it. Since that realization I've had no problems.

    3. Re:HD Cooling? by Zeussy · · Score: 1

      my 120gb Western Digi hdd's burn to the touch without cooling. They were the 1st 120gb hdd's I ever saw, think they have got 3 platters so it has a beefy motor to keep all 3 spun up at 7200rpm. Therefore mucho heat.

    4. Re:HD Cooling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool! Why have a stove when I could just cook eggs on the hard drive?

    5. Re:HD Cooling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey:

      SCSI drives spin at 15,000 RPM, more than double the speed of your garden variety IDE disc. They get hot. Don't touch them. Don't lick them.

    6. Re:HD Cooling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets just say that I've nicknamed my hommade nas server "Wind tunnel 1". That thing will heat a small room in winter (8 200Gig drives at 7200RPM).

    7. Re:HD Cooling? by sznupi · · Score: 1

      That they're warm/hot doesn't mean they're overheating...that would require operating above the temp. that manufacturer planned.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    8. Re:HD Cooling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since then my addage is if it's 7500rpm or higher put some fans on it.

      Adage isn't spelt the way you think it is and doesn't mean what you think it does.

      A term that means what I suspect you think "addage" means is "rule of thumb".

    9. Re:HD Cooling? by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Do they really overheat?

      Depends on the brand, the speed, how/where they are mounted, if they get airflow from the case fan, etc.

      How can you tell?

      Put on an anti-static wrist-strap, and touch it... If the skin is burned off your finger, it's too hot...

      Err, short of that, "smartctl" works well enough.

      When should you worry about it?

      It's all subjective. If your hard drive starts locking up, resetting, etc., you obviously have a problem. If you end up filing hard drive RMAs even remotely often, you probably have a heat problem.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  16. call me silly.... by zakezuke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... but would it not make more sense to either

    1. mount a 90mm fan on the front of your 3.5 inch bays.
    2. mount a 120mm fan on the front of your 5.25 inch bays.

    This way you actually get airflow for 2 to 3 drives rather than blocking airflow with another damn drive.

    --
    There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    1. Re:call me silly.... by jarich · · Score: 1
      I am doing something similar.

      I lost 3 large IDE hard drives in 6 months... I lost a 120, a 160 and 200 to disk failures in 2 different computers. I started paying more attention to the drives and I realized that ~all~ my drives were quite warm to the touch.

      I added fans (80mm or larger) to either blow in the front of the case, over the hard drives, or I put the fan behind the drives to blow air over the drives. Forward or back doesn't seem to matter, but mount the fan perpendicular. This way one fan can move air over multiple drives.

      I've not had another drive fail. It's been over a year and I've got nearly a TB at the house, so no failures is fairly significant (to me at least).

      The other thing I've started doing in single drive systems is mounting the drive sideways on the back of the case. I run a screw through the air holes in the back of a mid-tower case. The hard drive covers the PCI slots, but I don't swap cards often, so that's ok. More importantly, the drive's heat can rise up the power supply (which has a fan sucking out the heat).

      The original article might not impress everyone, but he's pointing out a huge problem with modern drives that not everyone realizes... it's a good post.

    2. Re:call me silly.... by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      I agree.
      My PC has 5 Hotswap bays that are cooled with a single 120mm fan in front. As i dont use 15k scsi stuff, even 7V are more than enough to keep all drives cool without much noise or wasted space.

      This solution otoh wastes a drive bay and doesnt create a directed airstream... it will just suck in its own heated air again.

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    3. Re:call me silly.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      silly

    4. Re:call me silly.... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      My Antec tower has fan brackets like that built in. It's quite nice, except for the fact that they're 80mm instead of something larger. The drive cage is designed to hold three drives, but I mounted two in it, with the bottom one upside down so that it would be in the middle of the two slots and get cooled on both sides.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:call me silly.... by slashdot.org · · Score: 1

      1. mount a 90mm fan on the front of your 3.5 inch bays.

      I would submit that idea next week. And call it Hard Drive Cooling for 0 Cents!

      Since all you need to do is get a case that already has one of these (many do). Hey, if fans apparently are free, then they may as well appear in the correct location.

    6. Re:call me silly.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but we were doing that 10 years ago. This is new and exciting! We never thought of making our drive arrays require twice as much space per drive before.

  17. Airflow? by Peyna · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't it make more sense to pull the air away from the drive? You don't point your CPU fan at your CPU/Heatsink.

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Airflow? by MankyD · · Score: 2, Informative

      You don't?

      --
      -dave
      http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
    2. Re:Airflow? by KRoot · · Score: 1

      Most CPU Heatsinks that i have seen have the fan with the airflow towards the cpu to absorb the heat.

    3. Re:Airflow? by RollingThunder · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhh... yes, yes you do.

      The CPU fan takes surrounding air, blowing it down towards the CPU and forcing it through the vanes of the heat sink.

      Push or pull, the main point in drive cooling is to move around the air so that hot pockets don't form around them, and the hot air is more likely to be vented by the case fans.

    4. Re:Airflow? by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 4, Funny
      "Wouldn't it make more sense to pull the air away from the drive?"

      Absolutely. That's why on hot summer days I sit behind a nice cool fan facing away from me.

    5. Re:Airflow? by cliffy2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You sit in front of a fan to move that encourage the evaporation (i.e., cooling process) of that hot sweat off your body by increasing the coefficient of conduction of air. Unless you have a sweaty fan, you should be moving the air away from it.

    6. Re:Airflow? by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whether the fan is blowing toward the heat sink, pushing in cooler air and displacing hot air in all other directions, or blowing away from the heat sink, pushing hot air away in a specific direction and pulling in cooler air in from all other directions, the same thing is being accomplished - warm air removed from the vacinity of the heat sink and cooler air replacing it.

      The only real difference is where you are pushing the warmer air - with an intake fan the hot air gets pushed usually to the sides of the heat sink, and can raise the temperature of nearby components - with an exhaust fan you direct the warmer air usually up and away from the board. (and possibly onto something else you'd rather not heat up, like your hard drive) Although with an exhaust fan you are pulling air into the heat sink from nearby components, which could in itself reduce the cooling efficiency of your heat sink, while benefiting nearby components.

      So choosing between exhaust and intake probably depends a lot on the physical layout of your case. A universal good selection would probably be exhaust that takes the air directly to the outside of the case.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    7. Re:Airflow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you have a sweaty fan, you should be moving the air away from it.

      I assume you mean a sweaty hard drive (which is even less likely).

    8. Re:Airflow? by n3k5 · · Score: 1
      Wouldn't it make more sense to pull the air away from the drive?
      No, it wouldn't. A fan generates a stream of air that you can direct anywhere you want, but you can't control where the air that goes in comes from. If your CPU fan blows outwards, that's OK because all the air that goes in has to pass through the heatsink, which is what the fan is about, and the 'exhaust' stream is hopefully pointed in the general direction of a PSU or case fan so the hot air will be moved out of the case.

      But when there's nothing to guide the airflow (observe the big gap between the harddisk and its fan), letting it blow straight on the drive is the best you can do in order to move hot air away. Fans blow, they don't 'pull'. You can try that out: take a toy boat that moves by shooting out a water jet. Mod it so it will suck in water. It won't move a millimeter.
      --
      but what do i know, i'm just a model.
    9. Re:Airflow? by Thrakkerzog · · Score: 1

      You also have capillaries. They work even without sweat -- much like a heatsink.

    10. Re:Airflow? by andywww · · Score: 1

      Also, pulling doesn't force air onto components, if you put your hand behind a fan it doesn't get cooled because the air is not being pushed onto your hand, it can go around it. Pulling air over components only works if there is significant ductwork e.g. case exhaust fan has the case acting as a duct.

    11. Re:Airflow? by v1 · · Score: 1

      True, though in this case the intake of the fan is physically attached and butted up against the heatsink, so ducting isn't really needed.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  18. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1

    But why not just dunk the whole drive into a air-tight container full of liquid nitrogen to cool it? Then you get good readings and guerenteed cooling!

  19. Has it come to this? by jmcmunn · · Score: 1


    Now Slashdot has to tell me what case designers have know for ages? Hmmm...maybe that's why my case has a fan right next to the hard drive.

    Must be a slow news day...

  20. Did you say noise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on. A fan on top of the drive isn't noisy?

  21. MY GOD!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LETS PATENT IT!

    1. Re:MY GOD!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      done.
      thanks by the way.
      i expect you to be served with a subpeona within the next half an hour.

  22. What's to cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... if you just use modern drives which run at 5400RPM? Maxtor Maxline II 300GB runs just about at the ambient temperature, with no cooling at all.

    Of course, if you must have the absolute maximum performance currently available, then do what you must. The difference between 7200 and 5400 RPM may less than you would guess: above vs Maxline Plus II (250mb) is 10 vs 9 ms (transfer rate is same 133 MB/s for both).

    1. Re:What's to cool... by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

      The difference between 7200 and 5400 RPM may less than you would guess: above vs Maxline Plus II (250mb) is 10 vs 9 ms (transfer rate is same 133 MB/s for both).

      This sort of assumption is what you get when you read the side of the box. The interface between the back of the drive and the controller interface on the motherboard is 133MB/s in both cases. The transfer rate from the surface of the platters to the heads, unfortunately will have rating lower than the interface rate. Said rating will be still lower on a 5400RPM drive. As it happens, most marketing literature only addresses a couple of stats, and platter-to-head isn't generally one of them.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    2. Re:What's to cool... by compwizrd · · Score: 1

      that's interface speed, not transfer.

  23. This is news? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Thought everyone did stuff like this when they wanted to keep their hardware a while..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  24. Mount on the other side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    He could mount it in the other side, blowing at the disk cover. I would also add some rubber in the contact places (or rubber "screws"), so the vibrations of the fan do not pass to the disk. Damn, even a 120mm fan that blows that the side, if you case allows (use the PCB side holes instead of the thin side holes).

  25. Get new fans! by Bazman · · Score: 1

    Did you see the state of that fan in the article? Smothered in dust and fluff. I'd give it another week's life before it starts making a noise. It'll only make that noise for a bit though, and then after that it'll be really, really quiet. Because it will have stopped.

    If you're putting together a server that relies on running cool, dont skimp on your ${LOCAL_CURRENCY} by recycling cruddy fans from your old 486 boxes!

    1. Re:Get new fans! by Tjoppen · · Score: 1

      Especially when they can cost as little as $3 brand new(silent too, only 13dBa)!

  26. well.. by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This is a lie. The article is clearly wrong.

    "Connect all the power cables and take a sampling of your temperature sensor on your hard drive, using tools such as SMART software. You should notice a dramatic change in temperature such that other cooling methods will no longer be necessary."

    I DARE YOU TO TRY IT! Your HD won't last 5 seconds without the fan you've just attached which would GASP be doing the cooling unlike a little bit of metal..

    --
    I like muppets.
    1. Re:well.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Your HD won't last 5 seconds without the fan you've just attached which would GASP be doing the cooling unlike a little bit of metal.."

      Uh, what?

  27. More noise ! by bushboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've got a fan in my PSU, over my GPU, my CPU.

    It already sounds like a bloody helicopter and now you want me to spend 10cents making it even louder !

    Wow !

    --
    A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
    1. Re:More noise ! by justins · · Score: 1
      I've got a fan in my PSU, over my GPU, my CPU.

      It already sounds like a bloody helicopter and now you want me to spend 10cents making it even louder !

      Wow !

      Unless the fan you add to cool your harddrive is louder than your CPU fan, which is unlikely if you choose the right fan, the perceptible amount of noise outside the case will not increase. Try it.
      --
      Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
    2. Re:More noise ! by moonbender · · Score: 1

      None of my case fans (all running at 5V) is louder than the PSU fan, but the whole system is still more silent when I turn them all off. The same goes for the CPU fan.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    3. Re:More noise ! by Jjeff1 · · Score: 1

      I used to do all sorts of this stuff. Extra fans, zip tied to the side of video cards, cutting holes in my case and mounting blowers...

      Then I got smart. I bought a nice light aluminum Antec Case, with 2 120mm fans (front and back), and a very quiet PS with 1 big fan. I yanked out my SCSI RAID array and bought a 10K rpm SATA disk. I would have been happier with a bit less bling on the case, but it works.

      Losing the RAID array didn't slow anything down, since it's a workstation, not a server. But I can hear myself think again. The loudest part of my PC is now the video card cooler.

    4. Re:More noise ! by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      It already sounds like a bloody helicopter and now you want me to spend 10cents making it even louder !

      Trust me, if you have a normal 4000rpm cpu fan you're not going to notice a dinky little 2000rpm 80mm fan esp if you have a GPU fan.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    5. Re:More noise ! by SA+Stevens · · Score: 1

      Well, I once put a heat-sink on top of the Z-80 processor in my 'BigBoard' (CP/M) system. Yes, you can get heat sinks for 40-pin DIP chips.

      Didn't improve system stability. Then I installed Window Air conditioners in all the rooms of the house (I lived in a hot upper duplex). Didn't matter. Then I installed several small cooling fans that blew air across the circuit board of the system.

      It never crashed again from overheating.

      No, the BigBoard was NOT something you could buy at a superstore.

    6. Re:More noise ! by Sam+Nitzberg · · Score: 1

      Heck, I've got a fan for my ALU ;-)

    7. Re:More noise ! by floorpirate · · Score: 1

      My server sits on top of a set of plastic shelves, about 5 1/2 feet off the floor. Both side panels on the case have been removed, and I have a large (2 1/2 feet or so wide) box fan sitting on the same shelf, about a foot and a half from the computer, blowing air through the case.

      All three hard drives in the case are nice and cool to the touch, even with an 80 GB and a 40 GB drive mounted one right above the other. The box fan doesn't add any extra vibrations to the computer, and should be more than far enough away to avoid any magnetic problems.

      As for noise, the server is in my bedroom, and I sleep better with a fan running. Otherwise, the room is way too quiet. As a bonus, the fan drowns out any outside traffic noises while I sleep in.

      --
      For every action there is a completely absurd lawsuit.
  28. How to tell by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Run your PC for a while, then stuck your tongue on it..

    HD's do run hot.. And hot reduces lifespan.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:How to tell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not touching that with my tongue, asshole.

  29. I've been doing this for years... by templest · · Score: 1

    Well, after over-clocking my AMD 1800+ to the point that the BIOS thinks it's a 2200+, and installing four hard-drives, two video cards, and cool neon-lights, I ended up stripping the case covers and leaving only the metallic skeleton holding the parts together.

    I then proceeded to plop two big-ass fucking fans on both sides of the box to manage the cooling. The little dinky CPU fan couldn't handle the processor, so I had to do it.

    What... So I don't have enough cash to dish out for one of those fancy-mangled "water cooling systems" or "liquid nitrogen". But hell, It Just Works.

    --
    I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
    1. Re:I've been doing this for years... by u2pa · · Score: 0

      Wow, that has to be noisy as hell.

      --
      Officially: "No comments"
    2. Re:I've been doing this for years... by Detritus · · Score: 1

      It also radiates substantial amounts of electromagnetic interference (EMI). That's why the FCC has regulations that require computers to be tested and certified for EMI before they are offered for sale in the USA.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    3. Re:I've been doing this for years... by templest · · Score: 1
      You know that my original post was a joke, right? Sorry, I forgot my "
      < sarcasm></sarcasm>
      " tags.
      --
      I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
    4. Re:I've been doing this for years... by Detritus · · Score: 1

      I've seen people do similar things, and worse, in real life. If you want to be weird, you're going to have to try harder :-).

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  30. Cool your harddrives! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you care about your data and you are running 7500rpm or higher cool your harddrives or do not put them adjacent to other drives.

    I had some 7500rpm western digital harddrives overheat and cause data corruption. Since I started applying fans I've had no problems.

  31. um, magnetic field effects? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't that risk damaging the drive/data via a magnetic field rather close to it?

  32. one bracket ? by mikerubin · · Score: 0

    one bracket does not seem sturdy enough for a fan of that size.....once the dupe comes out later today the second bracket will provide a much more durable solution.

    --
    I sat down to write a new sig tonight and all I did was make the chair warm.
  33. So... by 0x20 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Let me get this straight...

    You're saying that bigger fans... move more air than smaller ones?

    It's all just too confusing. Mind you, I'm an alien from a parallel dimension. In my world, it works like this:

    Step 1: Profit!
    Step 2: ...
    Step 3: Hard drive dools down.
    Step 4: Detach small fan from hard drive.

    1. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real computers operate at no less than 70dB.

    2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, you guys are suck dicks.

    3. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you are use English good no.

  34. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by RubberDogBone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah. LOL. It's not the PCB that gets hot anyway, at least not on my drives.

    The heat is in the disc, the drive motor, and related surfaces. Some of them can get quite hot. I still have some (working!) giant SCSI bricks that get hot enough to burn flesh.

    Full height 5.25 drives that would burn fingers and break your foot too, if you dropped it. I think it weighs close to 10 pounds. It'd probably still work after the fall but it only holds 1 gig or something. Not worth a bother.

    Anyway, I cool my drives with a 120v turbine fan that blows sideways across the whole drive. The air cools the disc side and the PCB side. Works great. Doesn't tax the system PSU.

    --
    Sig for hire.
  35. Cooling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since heat does rise, wouldnt it make more since to pull the heat off the top or blow the fan accross the drive itself. Just MO.

  36. patent it!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's get it patented before others do so.

  37. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

    can you explain why to blow air onto the HDD, instead of of blowing the air away?

    I bought some HDD coolers myself, and I thought that blowing air away is better, hence I don't know why I thought that.

    So what are pros and cons of blowing air in one direction or another?

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
    #
  38. Woah! I was so close! by orionware · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was mounting the fan on the OUTSIDe of the case. I was alot cooler but that damn drives kept getting hot! I was so close...

    --


    Karma means nothing to me, so suck it...
  39. or use old slot 1 heatsync/fan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used zip ties and an old slot 1 heatsync and mounted it to the top of the hard drive. so its not only a fan, the heatsync does its job too. worked great for me. but hey, what do i know, im just an Anonymous Coward

  40. News? I think this is a rule.. by Arvster · · Score: 1

    A fan mounted on a HDD as something new?! I think with the current new hard drive temperatures cooling is a law. For me there is no question about that, but to pay something extra for that is just foolish. This idea should be the first thing that comes into the mind when thinking about hdd cooling. Not really something new and original. I'we done this already as soon as i got my new and hot harddrive.

  41. Heatpipe coolers by Richard_J_N · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I find this sort of cooler much more useful:
    http://www.quietpc.com/uk/harddrive.php#z m2hc2

    The heatpipes per se only make a small difference to the temperature (perhaps 6-10 degrees?), but the rubber mounts do a fabulous job of reducing the noise.

    1. Re:Heatpipe coolers by Arvster · · Score: 1

      Why not just use the cooling solution from the article and hang HDD itself on several thick rubber bands, instead of attaching it by screws. Cheaper/more original..same effect.

    2. Re:Heatpipe coolers by Richard_J_N · · Score: 1

      I hate to think what happens after 6 months when the rubber perishes! *Crash*

    3. Re:Heatpipe coolers by Arvster · · Score: 1

      Well, the answer to this would be to use large, thick rubber band that will not break after 1/2 year. You are not keeping your hard drive in acid or something corrosive, so that the rubber would break or disslowe, are you? This method I tried myself and it works fine- hdd is cool and quiet.

    4. Re:Heatpipe coolers by syukton · · Score: 1

      I have one of these on a 250gb Maxtor drive right now and the drive is totally cool to the touch. The rubber is somewhat unnecessary because my drive used a fluid dynamic bearing motor and therefore makes zero noise to begin with...

      --
      Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
  42. Come on SLASHDOT!!! GRRRRRRRRR by ServeYourWorld · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is obviously just a ploy to make some money. The guy has an affiliate link to PCMALL. He is hoping some people click and buy some other stuff along with the screw. Can we get back to real news?

    1. Re:Come on SLASHDOT!!! GRRRRRRRRR by writermike · · Score: 1

      This is obviously just a ploy to make some money. The guy has an affiliate link to PCMALL.

      Not to mention that I've found the author has ties to the Small Metal Bracket Cabal in Indonesia.

      --
      If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
    2. Re:Come on SLASHDOT!!! GRRRRRRRRR by Darthmalt · · Score: 1

      Buy a Screw? I dunno about you but I can easily glance around my room and come up with a bunch of screws of varying types. Besides if you really need one just steal one of your case screws or one from the side of another HD you only need 1-3 screws per drive depending on your case

  43. Are you saying... by blckwidow · · Score: 1

    it is finally safe to overclock my drives with this device? 16,000 here I come!

  44. Re:Great! by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

    Not for server grade systems. You get quite a lot of noise from the case fans, not just the CPU fan, and you do notice a noise difference when you go to larger, more expensive fans that can move the air more quietly.

  45. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by moonbender · · Score: 2, Informative

    For what it's worth, try holding your hand in the airflow of a fan some time. It feels a lot stronger on the side the fan blows on to compared to the one the fan sucks the air from. Obviously, the same amount of air has to be blown out as sucked in, but blewn out air is accelerated in a certain direction giving it more power. It's not that much of a difference, anyway - people who experiment with switching on their CPU heatsink/fan typically end up with only a few degrees of temperature difference. Most modern tower cases have one or two intake fans in the front blowing on to the hard drives.

    --
    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  46. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by RubberDogBone · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sure.

    Do you have a fan handy? Any sort of window fan or table fan will do, or even one of those 80mm computer fans.

    Power it up and aim the air at your face. You should feel a cooling effect, maybe even a lot of cooling if it's a strong fan. Move the fan away a little. Distance decreases the effect but it's probably still noticable, right?

    Now turn the fan around. No effect at all at a distance. Move it closer. Still nothing. You're going to have to put your face right up next to the fan to feel anything and even then, it won't be very strong compared to the air coming out the other side.

    Bigger fans do have more of a suction effect and it also depends on the design. Vacuum cleaners obviously have quite a bit of intake power, but they also have substantial blower exhaust output.

    And what of CPU fans? CPU fans can get away with suction because they are sitting right on top of the heatsink. But, I have to say I have never owned such a CPU cooler. All of mine have blown air down upon the heatsink.

    --
    Sig for hire.
  47. My cheap solution by tardigrades · · Score: 0

    I just use tape. It is more versatile.

    --
    really bored? My blog
  48. Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by toofast · · Score: 2, Insightful


    1. Running 2 drives as RAID-1 with a spare souunds less efficient than just running RAID-1 for the OS partition and RAID-5 for the data. RAID-5 is faster for writes than RAID-1, but RAID-1 offers protection for the boot OS

    2. One fan per drive seems inefficient, and it will increase the power consumption of the box as a whole - not including the wasted space.

    3. Mounting a large fan with one single bracket would make the fam vibrate and not be mounted in a sturdy fashion

    4. The title doesn't include the cost of the fans. If he has three drives, three fans, three brackets, we're looking at about $20

    5. All these extra fans brings us back to the age of the noisy PC. So passé.

    My suggestion? A good Antec case with proper ventilation holes at the front and a 120mm fan at the rear. If you have three or more drives, add an 80mm fan at the front, blowing air on the drives in the same direction the air is pulled in from the 120mm. It's not the low temp of the drives that matters, it's air circulation + consistent temp.

    1. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      1. Running 2 drives as RAID-1 with a spare souunds less efficient than just running RAID-1 for the OS partition and RAID-5 for the data. RAID-5 is faster for writes than RAID-1, but RAID-1 offers protection for the boot OS


      RAID-1 for the O/S and RAID-5 for the date implies at least 5 disks without any standbys - he's only got three per server including a standby.

      Who says RAID-5 is faster at writes than RAID-1? To write a block on a 2 disk RAID-1 you need two writes (one per disk). To write a block on a RAID-5 you need two reads, a parity calculation, and two writes. The reads may come from the cache rather than actually have to be read from the oxide, but even so I can't see how RAID-5 would be faster. Besides, speed may not be a factor in his setup.

      What I don't understand is why he has 2 disk RAID-1 plus a hot standby. If a disk fails the RAID-1 is vulnerable until it can be rebuilt. Why not just use a three disk RAID-1 set?
    2. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmmm. he's only got three drives, so having the os drive as raid 1 takes 2. the extra 1 can't possibly do raid5, since you'd need 3 for that.

      last time i checked, raid-1 was faster for writes than raid 5. no checksum.

    3. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by hokeyru · · Score: 1

      Here's a better idea: Move to upstate NY, purchase a 20' KVM cable, and put your computer outside the window. Box runs at a chily 40 degrees (half the year, anyway).

    4. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      What I don't understand is why he has 2 disk RAID-1 plus a hot standby. If a disk fails the RAID-1 is vulnerable until it can be rebuilt. Why not just use a three disk RAID-1 set?

      Because that's not RAID-1, it's RAID-5.
      But yes, it's a valid configuration. The hassle or concern going with using all three disks as part of the RAID array without a hot spare is that he would need to tear the machine apart to replace a failed drive, and until he did so the machine would be limping along unprotected and vulnerable to another failure (which would destroy everything.)
      In his two disk set with a hot spare it would auto-failover to the spare drive, rebuild and be back in business (he could replace the dead drive at his convenience, a hot spare isn't required for his system to run full speed because he is still running RAID-1.)

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    5. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by toofast · · Score: 1

      RAID-5 does not require 5 physical disks. Only three as a minumum. As an added bonus, reads on a RAID-5 can take advantage of all three (or more) disks.

    6. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by toofast · · Score: 1

      You can RAID partitions.

      Drive 0: 5 GB OS (raid 1 member 1), the rest data (raid 5 member 1)
      Drive 1: 5 GB OS (raid 1 member 1), the rest data (raid 5 member 2)
      Drive 2: 5 GB (swap, logs, temp, whatever), the rest data (raid 5 member 3)

    7. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      1. Running 2 drives as RAID-1 with a spare souunds less efficient than just running RAID-1 for the OS partition and RAID-5 for the data.

      Buying 2 extra drives so you can do RAID-5 sounds a lot less effecient.

      RAID-5 is faster for writes than RAID-1

      Since when? Did the laws of physics change on me?

      2. One fan per drive seems inefficient, and it will increase the power consumption of the box as a whole

      Ineffecient how? Blowing air directly onto the PCB will cool it much more effectively than a fan blowing air past it.

      With 80MM fans using 1-3Watts of power total, even a dozen of them in one box would be nothing to worry about.

      3. Mounting a large fan with one single bracket would make the fam vibrate and not be mounted in a sturdy fashion

      Depends on how sturdy the single bracket is... Yes, 2 would be preferable, though.

      If he has three drives, three fans, three brackets, we're looking at about $20

      Your estimates seem quite high to me, at least double. You're right, though, the title is crazy.

      5. All these extra fans brings us back to the age of the noisy PC. So passé.

      If you think fans in your PC are annoying, just try running your PC with no fans, and see how annoying that is...

      The truth is, if he's using very quiet 80mm fans (eg. undervolted), the sound should be minimal.

      It's not the low temp of the drives that matters, it's air circulation + consistent temp.

      No, it IS the low temp that matters. Air circulation is just a convenient means to lower temps for all the components inside a case.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    8. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Move to upstate NY, purchase a 20' KVM cable, and put your computer outside the window.

      A bit of a hassle to swap the CD/DVD in the drive, isn't it?
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    9. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by toofast · · Score: 1

      I know you're trolling but...

      > Buying 2 extra drives so you can do RAID-5 sounds a lot less effecient.

      You don't need to buy two extra disks to do RAID. You can do RAID-1 and RAID-5 with only three disks. Software RAID is done on a partition-basis. See my other post about this elsewhere in this thread.

      > Since when? Did the laws of physics change on me?
      Since forever. RAID-1 writes the same information on two disks, whereas RAID-5 writes the info once across stripes. Besides, RAID-2 is commonly only used with two disks, whereas RAID-5 can be spread across up to 32 disks and more, depending on the controller.

      > Ineffecient how?
      Drives no not need an 80mm fan blowing on the PCB. The PCB is not what needs cooling, it's the inside of the disk, where the platters spin.

      >just try running your PC with no fans, and see how annoying that is...
      Wow, smart answer. Truly insightful.

      > No, it IS the low temp that matters

      Run your drives at -50 degrees, see how the low temp helps.

    10. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, 2 would be preferable, though.

      Do I look like I'm made of money? That would raise the cost to $.20! Who can afford that these days?

    11. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      I know you're trolling but...

      You must not know much then.

      You can do RAID-1 and RAID-5 with only three disks. Software RAID is done on a partition-basis.

      Fine, fine, you were talking about an unusual software RAID configuration. A misunderstanding then.

      Since forever. RAID-1 writes the same information on two disks, whereas RAID-5 writes the info once across stripes.

      I don't know what distinction you are trying to make here. RAID-1 writes across two discs SIMULTANEOUSLY, not one after, the other or anything like that. RAID-5 also has to write to more than one drive, and it has to calculate the parity. Look up just about any actual benchmarks, and you won't see 3-drive RAID-5 running any faster than RAID-1.

      whereas RAID-5 can be spread across up to 32 disks and more, depending on the controller.

      Yes, it CAN BE, but so what? It CAN BE used with faster drives to, but in this case, it's not doing either. RAID-0+1 can be used with more drives as well.

      Drives no not need an 80mm fan blowing on the PCB. The PCB is not what needs cooling, it's the inside of the disk, where the platters spin.

      You are wrong in many ways. First off, the PCB certainly does need cooling, those electronics get rather hot. Second, the platters aren't doing anything but spinning through air, and their smooth surface means very little friction, so the platters don't get very hot. The motor spinning the platters puts out plenty of heat, but guess where it's located? Right under/besides/through the PCB.

      just try running your PC with no fans, and see how annoying that is...
      Wow, smart answer. Truly insightful.

      As a response to your statement, yes it is. Saying that fans are annoying so you shouldn't try to cool your hard drives is rather ignorant.

      Run your drives at -50 degrees, see how the low temp helps.

      Wow, speaking of smart answers... Even the most powerful fans pointed directly at your hard drive will never cool it down below ambient tempuratures. Of course such a smart guy like you, who thinks platters running too hot, must know that...

      The issue was higher tempuratures and undirectional airflow vs. lower tempuratures through better directed airflow.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    12. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by toofast · · Score: 1

      If the PCB needed to be cooled to any extent, don't you think manufacturers would...
      a) place the pcb on top of the drive, not below?
      b) install heatsinks on the heat-producing chips?

      > Second, the platters aren't doing anything but spinning through air

      Spinning through air creates a *lot* of friction. The platters spinning at 7,200 RPM have a linear velocity of 1400 in/sec, org just shy of 80 mph. 10,000 RPM drives spin at about 111 mph. Think slick platters spinning through air don't generate heat? You're misinformed.

      Because the platters are enclosed in a small space, the hear has nowhere to escape but by conductivity -- by heating the rest of the casing.

      Don't take my word for it, just Google the words: hard disk platter temperature and read-up a bit. Or buy the latest "Upgrading and Repairing PC's" book. Good information in there too.

      > Saying that fans are annoying so you shouldn't try to cool your hard drives is rather ignorant.

      I never said that, you did. I said one fan per hard drive is inefficient, and loud.

      In any case, we could beat this to death, but we won't. I've read, studied and work in this field. If you did, you would have a better understanding.

    13. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Think slick platters spinning through air don't generate heat? You're misinformed.

      I didn't say that at all. I said it doesn't produce significant heat, mainly when compared with the PCB and spindle motor.

      The idea doesn't even pass the laugh-test, because if the friction from air generated significant heat, hard drive manufacturers would have designed hard drives with the platters in an air-tight vaccume chamber, which incidentally would also cut down on noise. They have fully sealed hard drives for special-purposes, and they are filled with inert gas in-place of air. Why not a vaccume if that's such a big source of heat?

      Also, you would certainly see hard drive manufacturers strictly sticking to single platter designs, if an additional platter would double the heat output...

      Don't take my word for it,

      Believe me, I don't plan to. I smell an armchair expert...

      just Google the words: hard disk platter temperature and read-up a bit.

      I did just that, and you know something, it's clear you didn't take your own advice. I've read through the first 30 links google turned up, and only 1 of those sites even suggests that spinning platters through air causes much heat, and the rest pretty well contradict that... A few select morsels:

      These drives, with their faster more powerful spindle motors, generated more heat than had been seen before in hard disks.
      http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref /hdd/op/ packCooling.html


      Since the mechanical and electrical components within the hard disk--especially the spindle motor--produce heat,
      http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/p er f/qual/issuesCooling.html

      Heat created by the spindle motor can eventually cause damage to the hard disk,
      http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/ hdd/op/ spinOperation.html


      I said one fan per hard drive is inefficient, and loud.

      Yes, but you never explained what you meant by "inefficient". You also claimed that the fans would produce a lot of heat (which they certainly don't.), and that a higher temp for your hard drives would somehow be better...

      I've read, studied and work in this field.

      Interesting... You've worked in this field, yet your resume lists NOTHING about hardware at all. I'm certain I would have noticed if it said hard drive engineer. There isn't anything on your entire site that would lead me to believe you know anything about hardware, and your series of pretty clearly factally incorrect comments here also lead me to believe you don't know much. If you've worked for a major hard drive manufacturer, just name them, and give a time-frame, and I'd be happy to call them up and verify your employment and level of knowledge about the subject.

      Unfortunately, you still haven't provided a shred of evidence to back-up your hard-to-believe claims. Here's a list just in case you've forgotten:

      (3 80mm fans will noticably) "increase the power consumption of the box"

      "RAID-5 is faster for writes than RAID-1"

      "It's not the low temp of the drives that matters"

      "what needs cooling, it's the inside of the disk, where the platters spin."

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    14. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by toofast · · Score: 1

      You still haven't provided a shred of evidence to back-up your hard-to-believe claims
      Are you in for a treat:

      Of my original top-5's, you argued with these:

      RAID-5 is faster for writes than RAID-1
      "As one could suspect, RAID 1 offers very little in terms of performance. "
      http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=14 91&p=3

      "RAID 5 arrays are said to provide a balance between RAID 0 and RAID 1 configurations."
      http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=14 91&p=4

      My claim is true and verifiable. AnandTech is a reputable website. If I recall correctly, you didn't seem to agree with this, yet you didn't back up *your* claim.

      One fan per drive seems inefficient, and it will increase the power consumption of the box as a whole - not including the wasted space.

      In my hand is a typical 80mm fan. 12V, 0.14A. 0.14 A x 3 fans = 0.42A @ 14V DC.

      So are 3 fans per hard disk inefficient? This is subjective, I think so, you think not. Will they increase the power consumption of the box? Yes. Will they waste space? Yes. You then rebutted: even a dozen of them in one box would be nothing to worry about. And I agree. It doesn't stop the fact that it is a power increase. Care to disagree some more? Aw come on!

      All these extra fans brings us back to the age of the noisy PC. So passé.
      This is my subjective opionion. You can have a quiet PC while still maintaining proper cooling (as opposed to running a PC without any fans, as you suggest). A quick search on Quiet PC backs this up.

      It's not the low temp of the drives that matters, it's air circulation + consistent temp.
      - A quick search on google for "cause of disk failure" reveals that heat is practically never* a cause in a drive's death, so be it low or high temps, it doesn't appear to really matter. However, changes in temperature (which is opposite of my claim, consistent temperature) cause materials to expand and contract (do I need to prove this for you too?). Because disks are designed to compensate for this (http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op /mediaMaterials.html), one could intelligently conclude that it's not the operating temperature that is an issue (as long as it's operating within spec), it's the change in temperature that matters. Argue away with common sense, pal!

      ... and you argued about this: "what needs cooling, it's the inside of the disk, where the platters spin."
      In what way is this false? Can you say "No, the inside of the disk does not need to be cooled"?
      "The smaller platters cause less air friction and therefore reduce the amount of heat generated by the drive"
      http://www.pctechguide.com/04disks_Performance.htm

      But hey, I guess Hitachi are "armchair experts" like me, huh? You said: because if the friction from air generated significant heat, hard drive manufacturers would have designed hard drives with the platters in an air-tight vaccume chamber
      Perhaps because the heads wouldn't float? A plane could fly much faster if it weren't for the friction with the air, but it couldn't fly without the friction of the air. Perfect Catch-22.

      So far, everything I've said makes sense. Everything. However:

      They have fully sealed hard drives...

      Who the hell is "They?". You expect "evidence" to "back up claims" from other people, yet you blurt out some pretty good fiction. Drives are not fully sealed, they have an air filter to allow for pressure differences
      http://computer.howstuffworks.com/hard-disk5.htm

      for special-purposes, and they are filled with inert gas in-place of air.
      What special purposes? What gas? Are you referring to Sputtering: is a physical vapor deposition (PVD) process used to apply extremely thin films of one material onto another? I

    15. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by Trogre · · Score: 1

      5. All these extra fans brings us back to the age of the noisy PC. So passé.

      Not necessarily. It's not the quantity of fans that makes noise, it's the amount of turbulent airflow. I have a server with 13 fans and you need to strain to hear it running. Another machine I saw has one fan and sounds like a hairdryer.

      If you find your fans are too noisy (and your machine is being cooled effectively) just chuck a 50 ohm resistor in series with each 12V fan.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    16. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't supposed anyone will read this now, but I was talking about a three disk mirror set. Three disks with identical data on them. Loose one and you're down to garden variety two disk mirror set. Loose two and you've got a single point of failure. The mirroring software I use supports this, so why not? You get reads spread over three spindles, and write speeds aren't hugely affected - rotational latency goes up from something like 2/3 of a revolution to about 3/4.

    17. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by evilviper · · Score: 1

      "As one could suspect, RAID 1 offers very little in terms of performance."

      You took this single quote VASTLY out of context to start with. It is refering to RAID-1 verses RAID-0 and/or single drives. It is NOT refering to RAID-1 relative to RAID-5. It's a mile-high look at RAID.

      Let's try some other quotes from that same article, which aren't out-of-context like the ones you provided:

      Although not the slowest of the common RAID types, RAID 1 can be slower than a single drive in some cases

      Not all is good with RAID 5, however. Due to the parity bit that must be calculated and written to on each drive, there is overhead.

      But with the rather noticeable performance hit that RAID 5 incurs, this RAID type is best left for servers with critical data but not much need for speed.

      And once again, the more you try to prove yourself right, the more you prove yourself wrong. On that VERY SAME ARTICLE they benchmarked RAID 0/1/5 and guess what??? RAID-1 was consistently faster than RAID-5 in their own benchmarks.

      My claim is true and verifiable. AnandTech is a reputable website. If I recall correctly, you didn't seem to agree with this, yet you didn't back up *your* claim.

      There yo go, your claim is CLEARLY false based on your own sources. Since you are the one who quoted Anandtech and said how great they are, surely you won't argue with them. And now, I have backed-up my claim with YOUR sources. I didn't bother to post any links before, because EVER SITE you could possibly visit that benchmarked a RAID-5 setup will show the SAME THING. You're the one arguing that you're right, and the rest of the world is wrong.

      Will they increase the power consumption of the box?

      By such a small ammount that it would be trite and banal to mention it for no particular reason.

      Compared to your suggestion of using a 120mm rear and 80mm front fan, 3 80mm fans would use LESS power.

      You can have a quiet PC while still maintaining proper cooling (as opposed to running a PC without any fans, as you suggest).

      Yes, but just using fewer fans doesn't accomplish this, which is specifically what you implied.

      A quick search on google for "cause of disk failure" reveals that heat is practically never* a cause in a drive's death,

      Once again, you want me to do a google search that proves you wrong. If you had even read the SUMMARIES of the results returned on the first page, you would have seen that much. A select few quotes:

      Hot spots are a very common cause of disk failure.
      http://eval.veritas.com/downloads/pro/biz_value_of _vol_mgmt.pdf


      Excessive heat is the #1 cause of disk failure
      http://www.inostor.com/support/InoStor_NAS_Quick_I nstallation_Guide51.pdf

      one could intelligently conclude that it's not the operating temperature that is an issue (as long as it's operating within spec), it's the change in temperature that matters.

      No, one could not intelligently conclude that... Your method of logic is to jump around an issue in nonsensical ways, until you get an answer that is vague and meaningless.

      Having any number of fans pointed at your hard drives is not going to exaggerate their extreme tempuratures, but only keep down their maximum tempurature, closer to ambient. Having less cooling that just happens to provide consistent direction is not going to make the hard drive tempuratures fluctuate any less.

      Can you say "No, the inside of the disk does not need to be cooled"?

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    18. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      If you find your fans are too noisy (and your machine is being cooled effectively) just chuck a 50 ohm resistor in series with each 12V fan.

      You might be better off just modifying the molex connector to just supply the fan with 5V instead of 12V.

      For the most part, I just by $3 tempurature-controlled 80mm fans that are nearly silent. However, undervolted cheap surplus 80mm fans are perfect for cooling my firewall/router system even more cheaply and silently. I also use an undervolted 80mm fan for use as a case fan to provide a little bit more air to cool my hot northbridge.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    19. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by toofast · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I learned a lot this weekend. Feel free to correct any of my learnings, summarized here:

      1. RAID-1 has faster write access than RAID-5.

      2. If your system doesn't have at least one fan per disk, you're cooling it wrong. Claiming that one fan per disk is inefficient is plain wrong.

      3. One 120mm fan consumes more energy than three 80mm fans.

      4. For every Google article that sais Yes, there is a Google article that sais No.

      I guess I have plenty of work to do on the servers at work monday morning, because not one is configured with RAID-1 or one 80mm fan per disk, yet they're plenty fast and reliable. Hell, not one has a fan on the CPU! Maybe I should add one of those too?

      http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/har dw are/entry/550_specs.html
      http://www-1.ibm.com/ser vers/eserver/xseries/x346. html
      http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/integrit y/entr y_level/rx2600/index.html

      You keep building your systems with RAID-1 and one 80mm fan per hard drive if that's what works for you. You're the expert.

      Thanks for taking the time to transfer your knowledge. I am forever greatful.

    20. Re:Top 5 things wrong with this setup... by evilviper · · Score: 1
      1. RAID-1 has faster write access than RAID-5.

      Yes. Here's the last couple of quotes I'm going to post on the subject:

      Maintaining parity information reduces write performance - in some cases as low as one third the speed of RAID 1. For this reason RAID 5 is not normally used in performance critical processes.
      http://www.vogon.co.uk/disk/raid-disk- recovery.htm


      This additional time results in a degradation of write performance for RAID-5 arrays over RAID-1 arrays by a factor of between 3:5 and 1:3. (i.e. RAID-5 writes are between 3/5 and 1/3 the speed of RAID-1 write operations.)
      http://www.ossi.net/raid.php


      2. If your system doesn't have at least one fan per disk, you're cooling it wrong.

      Not true. However, criticizing someone for using this method to cool their drives is wrong.

      Claiming that one fan per disk is inefficient is plain wrong.

      Well, I tried over and over to find out what you think is so ineffecient about it, and you've never given a straight answer... Other than space concerns (which you addressed seperated), I certainly can't think of anything ineffecient about it, no.

      3. One 120mm fan consumes more energy than three 80mm fans.

      No, you really missed this one... A 120mm fan generally consumes more than 2x 80mm fans. You suggested: "a 120mm fan at the rear" and "add an 80mm fan at the front" The "ineffecient" method will likely use less power, and certainly keep the drives cooler as well.

      4. For every Google article that sais Yes, there is a Google article that sais No.

      You've completely missed this one too. Just try to Google for a few actual benchmarks where RAID-5 is faster at writes than RAID-1...

      The real lessons here are that: 1. When you're mistaken, it's hard to find information to support your claim. and 2: You'll can still find a little bit, because there are other non-experts that decided to put up websites.

      not one is configured with RAID-1 or one 80mm fan per disk, yet they're plenty fast and reliable.

      Nobody said that letting a drive run slightly warmer is terrible. Saying that it's somehow better for the drive if you let it run warmer is wrong, though.

      RAID-1 is noticably faster than RAID-5. However, RAID-5 has the advantage of wasting less disk space to store it's redundant data. If the price of the additional drives isn't a problem, and write performance really is critical for your servers, yes, you certainly should switch to RAID-10.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  49. ...Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure some "people have a right to profit" dude will mod me down.

    There are Ferengi on /.?

  50. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by freakmaster · · Score: 1

    hows this for unqualified speculation?

    you cool things by exposing them to large quantities of colder air. This is subtly different than moving hot air away.
    blowing towards allows you to direct high speed air to a precise location. i.e. the air coming out of the fan is mostly going in the same direction, straight out of the fan.
    when you suck, you're basically creating a low pressure zone which gets filled in from all directions.
    so the air flow going into a fan is coming from many different angles and is therefore kind of spread out and not as intense.
    this is why all the cpu fans and gpu fans (i've seen) blow air onto the heatsink instead of sucking it away from the heatsink.
    if you blow onto the heatsink you guarantee that a larger portion of your airflow contacts the heatsink. if you suck away from the heatsink you are wasting airflow on the air that gets sucked from places further from the heatsink.
    sucking still works though & in certain physical configurations its your only option.
    no suck & blow jokes please!

  51. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by moonbender · · Score: 1

    Quoting the article: "Please note that in some cases I suspected that the drive temperature was not being reported properly, as some drives showed no change in temperature via software but were clearly cooler to the touch." I assume he touched the metal around the actual platters and not the (powered) drive electronics. I doubt a 3x 40 mm fan battery will be more effective than this, in fact it'd probably be more noisy at the same amount of airflow/cooling. It's not like his setup only cooled the PCB.

    --
    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  52. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The bracket will do nothing by itself! You need a fan!"

    I think Captain Obvious had a seizure.

  53. Be Careful by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Funny
    I also tried mounting a fan to my hard drive with an angle bracket. I found out that you need to be really careful about how deep you drill and tap the mounting holes into the drive.

    I used 1/2-inch deep holes, and the drive wouldn't even fire up when I tried to boot. It turned out that the drive had really flimsy construction, and they had moving parts right under the surface that were immobilized by the screws. The cheap POS wouldn't even work after I took the screws back out.

    If you plan to do this, I'd recommend using very short screws; probably no more than 1/8-inch.

    1. Re:Be Careful by ltbarcly · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      how is this modded up, but not modded funny? Hurray for moderators who are clueless.

  54. this is sooo cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so your computer is too hot? good, put in some
    fans. nice. now you never have to bother that it
    gets too hot. oh, but wait ... after a few months
    you get those old (hot) temperature readings back.
    you look inside but all fans are running.
    RUNNING IN FILTH! instead of trying to make your
    filthy computer cool by installing dust
    attracting fans that will peep-poppy powder your
    equipment under some really nicely isolating dust.
    maybe you should get of your sorry a$$ and
    freaking CLEAN it once in a while ... but then
    again you're prolly one of those dudes that smell
    like little babies at the meating 'cause you
    wouldn't spend enough time wipeing your ass off
    correctly ...

    (this is not a flame against the nice mister
    inventor with a good idea (serious) but to those
    other lamers with the "fans are the solution"
    mentality)

  55. Even easier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just pull all the hard disks out of the cage, and set a 80mm fan in there. The typical 3-drive cage will hold a 80x25mm fan up in front of the drives. Just set it in there with the label pointed into the case, and put the drives back in. The fan isn't going to catch on anything if there's no grill, but you can put on there if you so desire. Plug it in, and instant Raid-0 drive saver.

    It surprising how much more reliable drives are, these days, when you just have a cheap fan blowing across them.

    You can also buy those 5.25" drive cages that will hold 3-drives in two 5.25" spaces, and come with a 80mm fan up front.

  56. wow.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what a genius, don't you agree?

  57. Yes, some of us DO appreciate this article. by btarval · · Score: 1
    I agree. What's especially interesting is that he's claiming two things:

    Standard commercial systems only cool by 1-5 C.

    He's able to achieve at 10-15 C temperature reduction.

    Personally, I'd expect a 5 C drop; the 10-15 C drop is significant and not obvious. So significant that I'm considering doing this myself now. Personally, I find this large of a drop surprising. And yes, I do a lot of hardware hacking and know a good bit about cooling (you DO know what theta is, don't you?).

    If one is going to claim that this is obvious, could you please post some references? Personally, I think such a complaint sounds like sour grapes, with all due respect.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
    1. Re:Yes, some of us DO appreciate this article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually, I did this myself a few years ago (I live in Hawaii, no AC, 5.25" drive cooling mounts with the little fans in front wear out fast because of the dust) but I considered it a gross kluge because the drive took up 2 3.5" bays at best (I had to make my own brackets for that.. the ones I bought at ACE caused the drive to take up a few millimeters more than 2 bays, which was definitely unacceptable). I got the idea after seeing the fan mount setup for the zalman flower heatsink, figuring something like that might work for HDDs too. In the end, unless you plan to buy full tower cases in order to mount about 3 HDDs, it's just better to dremel the a hole for an 80mm fan in the front of the case where the fan would give good airflow across the drives... which is something I could've got in a better stock case if I was willing to pay the $40 s/h :p.

  58. Not the OP but yes, I have been doing this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did this about a decade ago when Newtek first started shipping the Video Flyer and I had to come up with a cooling solution to keep large 9G drives cool.

  59. I dont get him..does anyone?? by cOdEgUru · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, intrigued by the complexity, or by the lack of any readability, I ventured in to the mind of Turn-X Alphonse to figure him out.. Maybe I have actually come across a new age Zen..and I found this snippet in his livejournal that confirmed my suspicions..

    But it does appear Rey will be getting Impulse, Shinn will get Destiny and Lunamaria will get her own Gundam which looks like a mark 2 Gaia. Of course right now this is all guessing because we've only seen this mysterious Gundam in the new ending but it's pictured with the Minerva crew and we already know the other 3 pilots mecha. So unless Sting defects (some rumours say so) or Steallar stays on the Minerva (Doubtful, although she needs to go nuts and be really cute about it more often), it's Lunamarias.



    Err..what??

    1. Re:I dont get him..does anyone?? by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

      If you watched Gundam SEED Destiny it would all make sense.

      and I don't care if people get me or not. Everyone who complains seems to be new at Slashdot. If you don't like what I say mark me as a foe and ignore any foe posts. Not a huge problem is it?

      --
      I like muppets.
  60. This is so wrong. by fsck! · · Score: 1

    Instead of just arranging the components in a way that doesn't let excess heat build up, we're making the system use even more power to push air around in an enclosed space. This is not how you make a more efficient system. If your hard drive is that hot, you're using the wrong chassis. Get one designed with airflow in mind. Put a heat sink on the hot components, or, better yet, figure out why they're turning so much of the power they draw into heat instead of something useful. Recycle your old chassis. No wonder the West is in a war for oil.

  61. A better idea... by Eyeball97 · · Score: 4, Funny
    You don't need a fan.

    All you need is the blade from an old fan, a toothpick, and a 2mm drill.

    1. Drill a hole in the drive directly above the platters
    2. With some superglue on the end of the toothpick, insert it in the hole so that it sticks to the spindle
    3. Glue the blade to the other end of the toothpick.

    Now you see, no need for a fan. As long as your drive's running, the fan blade you just installed will be spinning at 5400 (or whatever rpm) your drive is.

    Much cheaper than $0.10.

    1. Re:A better idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Actually, I recall having an old Micropolis MFM disk, which did exactly this.

      Except for the toothpaste-and-glue bit, of course.

    2. Re:A better idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG d00d... I just did this and my drivers are both cooler and a lot quieter now.

    3. Re:A better idea... by lampajoo · · Score: 1

      That's a kick ass idea...

  62. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by phasm42 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've done this to one of my drives, and I blow on the PCB. Why? Because when you think about what typically fails on a HDD, it's the controller. Keep the electronics cool, the drive will last longer.

    --
    "No one likes working in a hamster wheel, and your shop smells of cedar shavings from here." - TaleSpinner
  63. Or use a piece from an old Erector set by brian0918 · · Score: 1

    I used a bracket just like that, except it was from an old Erector set, to cool the video card in my old computer.

  64. I call this BS by b374 · · Score: 0

    Standard commercial systems only cool by 1-5 C.
    He's able to achieve at 10-15 C temperature reduction.

    This is bulshit!!! This solution only cools down the PCB (that's where the sensor is located)... not the drive as a whole... The rest of the drive might even not get cooler with even 1C degree.

    It's like saying I can achieve a bigger speed for a car that the one supplied by his engine / tuning by throwing it from the top of the cliff.
    1. Re:I call this BS by btarval · · Score: 1
      That may well be. He did say that the drives were "clearly cooler to the touch" though.

      It would be interesting to try and verify this claim, as it may simply be that his case has poor cooling; and sticking in an extra fan may just be moving the air around inside the case better.

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
    2. Re:I call this BS by shawb · · Score: 1

      The circuit board is the part that usually fails first on modern drives. Perfectly valid spot to cool.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    3. Re:I call this BS by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Interesting
      It's definitely bullshit, but not for the reasons given. This has been covered before (yeah, dupe article, so what the fuck else is new).

      Unmount your hard drive (but leave the cables attached) and power up the system. Touch your hard drave - can you even tell that its spinning? No vibrations.

      Now, mount a cheapie fan to it, and touch it - a LOT more vibrations. And it will only get worse as the fan wears.

      Anyone who mounts fans to their hard drives to cool them deserves what they get - you'll be losing data within a few months, and probably end up with a completely fucked drive.

    4. Re:I call this BS by KillShill · · Score: 1

      you sir are a dick.

      no one deserves to have their hard drives messed up because they thought they were cooling them down.

      thanks for making the world a better place,

      sincerely yours,

      Beelzebub

      --
      Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
  65. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by Vario · · Score: 1

    Air-tight and full of liquid nitrogen? That would be quite a cool explosion...

  66. How about cutting 10 pennies in half.... by fireheadca · · Score: 1

    and gluing them on with superglue and thermal
    grease?

    Or finding a scrap piece of metal in the garbage
    or on the street and making a heatsink?

    I know some old microwaves would help cooling in
    a cinch, but would they compromise the magnetic
    field too?

  67. that's great... by js290 · · Score: 1

    except the heat isn't on the PCB side...

    --
    "Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
  68. on the side by Cheeze · · Score: 1

    better to put the fan on the side. then you can use one fan to cool more than one drive.

    I have a 80mm fan right now cooling 4 ide drives and it brings the temps down about 10-15 degrees C. They run about 35-37 degrees C as opposed to almost 50 degrees C without it.

    pretty basic hack really. I don't see the point in making a WHOLE slashdot article about it. Maybe someone out there just went, "Hey, what a GREAT idea." but I bet that person already tried to dunk their drives in ice water.

    --
    Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
    1. Re:on the side by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> They run about 35-37 degrees C as opposed to almost 50 degrees C without it.

      Umm so what? 50C is probalby well within spec of your HD's anyway. Cooling them down won't make them perform better or last longer so why bother? Especially as more fans = more noise.

    2. Re:on the side by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      Cooling them down won't make them perform better or last longer

      I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, at least on the 'last longer' part.
      It won't make them perform better, we agree on that - but I expect that running the drives 15 degrees C (27 degrees F) cooler (35C vs 50C) or (95F vs 122F) is going to make a profound difference on the long term lifespan of the drives.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    3. Re:on the side by Cheeze · · Score: 1

      50C might be within the specs, but a cooler running drive is a happier drive. that 50C is just having the drive running, not necessarily putting it under any load. under load, it climbs to around 70F depending on the type of load.

      I've seen quite a few drives die totally because they were on for 3 or 4 years straight, then were turned off. The platters cooled and then warped. one in particular used to run all the time and cooling it basically destroyed the drive. That was on an old scsi drive though.

      Either way, the server I mentioned is in a closet with zero air flow. The ambient temp in that closet is around 85-90F anytime of the year. Adding one fan's noise to a closet isn't that big of a deal compared with a burnt up drive. Also having 4 drives means each drive heats up it's neighbors, and ultimately burns the one in the middle. I do have them spaced out, but they are all attached relatively close to the same case. Having some sort of air flow is always a good idea.

      --
      Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
  69. Induced currents by ScrappyLaptop · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A few readers have pointed out that the magnetic field from an 80mm fan is probably nowhere near strong enough to penetrate the metal platter cover, let alone affect the bits on the platters themselves. Then one reader mentioned that if the fan was mounted on the underside, it would have to go throught the PCB as well. Can a fan motor induce enough current in the PCB traces to cause data errors (or CRC-type errors and thereby slow down data transfer)? What about all those fancy-but-cheap (look, it's UV reactive!) unshielded round cables that no longer have a ground next to each data line? I wonder if that might be one more reason not to have 12 fans in one case, but have not seen the issue addressed...

    1. Re:Induced currents by Weissmohr · · Score: 1

      I doubt such a fan would not induce enough currents in the PCB traces to cause data errors, but for audio equipment (at least in the broadcast industry where they seem to need 120dB SNR to enjoy german country music) it can be a nuisance. brushless motors work by rotating the magnetic field of the inner stator, and the permanent magnetic rotor then rotates to match fields. This is a lot worse for inducing currents than a normal motor where the permanent magnetic stator is on the outside, sitting still. The field variance seen on the outside of the brushless motor is way bigger...

      Maybe you could _theoretically_ disrupt the reading if you managed to focus the magnetic field on the head, where the signal is still unamplified. Hmm, have to test that in the lab next week :-P

  70. New book about this by KrackHouse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    An MIT prof just released a new book that you can read online called Democratizing Innovation. I haven't read the whole thing yet but it looks like he may be on to something. Also see Pro-Am Revolution .

    --
    What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
    http://houndwire.com
  71. damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If only hard drives actually needed cooling. Sure, those 10000+ rpm raid 5 scsi dealies might, but those are in servers in super air conditioned rooms and crap. The 3 normal (S)ATA discs in my pc don't need no fan. And because that's just what i want to do is waste some space in my case with some ghetto fan making more noise.

  72. 10 cent web-design tool next by Sly+Mongoose · · Score: 1

    I hate when people make you download a 972x914 pixel, 129703-byte image, then hit it with width=400 height=376 attributes in the tag. Reducing the image itself would have reduced the size by about 2/3rds.

    Grrrr!

    1. Re:10 cent web-design tool next by Joe-Pub!ic · · Score: 1

      With broadband, I didn't even notice. Come in to the 90s.

    2. Re:10 cent web-design tool next by Sly+Mongoose · · Score: 1

      1) Having broadband doesn't justify using three times the bandwidth you need to.

      2) Everybody doesn't have broadband as an option.

    3. Re:10 cent web-design tool next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      plus since most browsers use a cheap resizing option it looks like crap as opposed to the cubic bilinear whatever method.

  73. Fans'n'Eggs by ack_call · · Score: 1

    You bunch of southern shandy drinking toss pots - Real men don't use fans. I fry (broil to you yanks) eggs on my hard drive and they taste darn good!

  74. This is stupid. by JustNiz · · Score: 1, Insightful

    HD's dont need cooling. I've never cooled my HD's and not ever had a HD problem in 20+ years I've had a computer.

    This cooling fad is just another way of companies selling you expensive crap you don't technically need (such as fans with leds).

    The author is probably one of those people who pay 200 bucks for gold speaker cables too.

    1. Re:This is stupid. by evilviper · · Score: 1, Insightful
      HD's dont need cooling. I've never cooled my HD's and not ever had a HD problem in 20+ years I've had a computer.

      Right, just because you've never had a problem, it doesn't exist... Just like cars that get less than 30MPG don't exist, just because I've never owned one...

      Many hard drives get DAMN HOT. I know my Western Digital 160GB drive got so hot that one of the screws going through the PCB on the bottom of the drive was hot enough to cause a first-degree burn, it was about 200F/95C degrees. (Tip: Buy Seagate)

      And that's just a basic 7200RPM drive, in a very open case, with pretty good airflow (CPU: 104F/40C Case: 86F/30C). God help anyone with a 10,000/15,000RPM SATA/SCSI drive. Forget about RAID!

      This cooling fad is just another way of companies selling you expensive crap you don't technically need

      You're absolutely right! Those marketing geniuses have everyone thinking they NEED a cooling fan on their 4GHz CPU and inside their 300W power supply! People sure are stupid, aren't they?
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  75. Re:Such an innovation! I can do it for -$0.01! by gru3hunt3r · · Score: 1

    Honestly the $0.10 bracket is so 2004.

    Imagine spending a whole dime!!!! How absurd and wasteful. I accomplished the same thing for -$0.01 using the following components:
    1. Large piece of duct tape (appx value $0.04)
    2. Used piece of bubble gum from under desk. (FREE)
    3. Piece of string I found on floor (FREE)
    4. Bailing wire procured from neighbors fence (FREE)
    5. Plus I found nickel in my couch cushion while doing this project. Whoop! (value -$0.05)

    If anybody is interested I'll writeup an article detailing how it works and post pictures.

    I'm thinking about forming a corporation to sell kits for $0.01 -- (nickel included). I bet I could do a 2x or 3x markup and sell it for -$0.03.
    Phase one: we collect underpants.
    Phase two: ???
    Phase three: profit!
    Of course it will work -- You don't know much about corporations do you? Us gnomes are geniuses at corporations.

  76. Troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kenshin (43036)
    heavy snowfall (847023)

    Look real close at the IDs guys...

    43036 < 847023

    so

    Kenshin > heavy snowfall

    so

    !Troll

    1. Re:Troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      43036 heavy snowfall

      so

      !Troll


      P.S. When carrying out these calculations, always remember to treat Anonymous posts as Id zero. It makes the math easier.

  77. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On my drive (Western Digital 80Gb, 2MB cache) the PCB gets very hot, even when the drive is running idle. I discovered that accidentaly - I've always been checking the metal case temperature before.

    This is also the case with Western Digital 40GB drives (the same series, but with 8MB cache) in a machine at work.

    Of course when I found this out, I immediately obtained and installed proper hard drive coolers and fans.

  78. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by YoungHack · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have been lead to understand that drives don't typically fail because their platters got hot. They tend to fail because their circuit boards fail. You'll find advice all over the internet suggesting that you try to fix a broken drive by swapping the circuit board from another of the same model before purchasing expensive data reclamation.

    In that context, this fellow's solution doesn't seem so irrelevant. Keeping the circuit board cool is likely to lengthen the life of the drive.

  79. Wrong side of the drive by darkonc · · Score: 1
    The fan is on the electronics side. I'm thinking that you want most of the cooling on the metal (platter) side -- to cool the mechanical side, which is where most of the failures occur. (correct me if I'm wrong here).

    The massive temperature decrease with the current setup is because he's cooling the temperature sensor, without cooling the components that the sensor is supposed to be measuring for -- thus producing a false reading.

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  80. Works better with a transfer agent.... by GaryOlson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...hook up a spray mister as well to increase your cooling capacity!

    --
    Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
  81. Pick myself up, dust myself off... by beef3k · · Score: 1

    Wow, glad to see he found a really old fan full of dust and crap to blow into his harddrive.

    Let us now how long it lasts will you?

  82. Request for fan filter material info by btarval · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Thanks for posting that; I found it interesting.

    This brings up a related subject, namely, putting a filter in front of the fan to filter out dust. Antec rackmount cases have a great solution, namely a removeable tray in front of the fan. The tray comes with a spongy filter type of material which is anti-static.

    I've tried finding a raw source for this material, with no luck. Does anyone know where one might find this?

    Basically I'd like to get a large sheet of this, and cut it up appropriately for all of the various fans that I have. I'd really like to reduce the dust in my systems.

    If anyone knows of a source for the raw anti-static material in large quantities, I'd appreciate knowing it. Thanks in advance.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
    1. Re:Request for fan filter material info by joejoejoejoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have a whirlpool air-purifier, and it has a pre-filter which is a thin "foam" filter like I think you want. They sell at Lowes a roll or large peice that can be cut to size to replace the whirlpool's pre-filter (10 or 20 bucks for 2foot by 2foot approx). I looked on the Lowes site and couldn't find it, but it is in the store's section by the air-filters/air-purifiers.

      -Joe4

      --
      Silly Rabbit: tricks are for kids.
    2. Re:Request for fan filter material info by orangepeel · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you'll be unimpressed and/or disgusted, but I've been considering trying a Swiffer sheet for my filters (just the replacement sheet, not the broom, smartass!). It'd be easy to cut out the sizes I need from the cloth. In my case I have a rigid filter holder with clips around the edges, so the fact that the Swiffer sheet is cloth-like in rigidity (i.e. not at all) wouldn't matter. You could probably hack together some kind of rigid filter holder with an old metal coat-hanger though. Classy! A perfect match for your 10 cent fan bracket!

      Anyway, the reason I haven't tried yet is that A) I'm lazy and B) the sheets seem a little thick, and might not allow for much airflow. Then again, they're cheap, and they're designed to trap dust, so I might give in and try someday. I've also been considering the thin gauze sold by the roll at the local drugstore. That stuff is thin enough I'm thinking it could really work. But that would involve going outside, so it's not at the top of my to-do list right now. ;)

      --
      Whoever designed level 61 in Frozen Bubble is a sadistic bastard.
    3. Re:Request for fan filter material info by RabidMonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd suggest your local hardware store/Canadian tire ... buy a furnace filter (About $5) and cut chunks out of it to the right size. maybe get some strips of velcro at the same hardware store. put a bit in each corner of the fan and a bit on the filter and voila .. easy to change and secure for about $6. And given the size of furance air filters, one should last you a year or more.

      --
      We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
    4. Re:Request for fan filter material info by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

      no idea what you're talking about...but I think you're bordering on parinoia anyway.

      Well, to humor you, I'll suggest this.
      -Use a coffee filter. (may be restrictive)
      -go to an auto parts store, buy an engine intake filter and cut that up. try the foam filters. (hey, an engine really sucks air...so should flow fairly well.
      -central heat filters used in houses(should flow ok too)
      -call antec for a replacement filter

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    5. Re:Request for fan filter material info by jnaujok · · Score: 1

      How about those green scotch pads from 3M. (You know, like the stuff on the scrubby sponges, but without the sponge.) I bought a pack of twenty at Sam's club for 2 bucks, and you can get two or four filters out of each one.

      --
      Life, the Universe, and Everything... in my image.
    6. Re:Request for fan filter material info by puke76 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is what I do..

      take one of those "CD wipes" - disposeable anti-static cloths soaked in alcohol used to clean LCD displays and CDs. Let it dry out - and tape it over the grill in front of the fan with duct tape. Change it every 3 months.

      The wipes cost less than 10 cents each. Maybe I should submit an article to Slashdot!

    7. Re:Request for fan filter material info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crappy Tire - in the furnace fan section. Look for washable furnace filters...

    8. Re:Request for fan filter material info by dimmak · · Score: 1

      I tried out fabric softener dryer sheets in the past. And you can know how well the air is flowing just based on the aroma. They are also anti-static, but I am not sure how safe it is to have the fabric softener from the sheets blowing through the computer. I never experienced any problems, but I also didn't do it for very long. I prefer just taking my computer out every 2 or 3 months and blowing it out with compressed air (from an air compressor, I hate those teeny cans.)

      --
      http://www.sledgehammercomputers.com
    9. Re:Request for fan filter material info by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1

      Go to a hardwar store and ask for a "humidifier belt". For $4.99 you'll get about a square yard of exactly the right material-- a lifetime supply.

    10. Re:Request for fan filter material info by RenaissanceGeek · · Score: 1
      You want air-conditioner filter material.

      Window air-contitioners use this material to filter the dust from the interior air before passing it through the evaporator coils. A package with a sheet a yard or so square (folded up in the package, of course) can be bought for a dollar or three at a competent hardware store or home center and is trivial to trim to size with a scissors. That ought to be enough to last you for years, or to outfit your whole local Users' Group.

      I would avoid furnace-filter material, as that tends to be fibrous (and thus messier, when cut down to a smaller size), rather than the foam that you describe, and is tailored for use with a motor rated for a whole horse-power or more, which would probably be too restrictive when paired with a computer-case fan.

      --
      What is the difference between a small revolutionary change and a large evolutionary change?
    11. Re:Request for fan filter material info by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 1

      -go to an auto parts store, buy an engine intake filter and cut that up. try the foam filters. (hey, an engine really sucks air...so should flow fairly well.

      Er, an engine sucks air at a MUCH higher volume than an 80 mil fan! you would never pull enough air through an engine air filter with a little bitch-ass 80-mil fan :)

      Now, the furnace filter would work - IF it is not the pleated paper type. You have to get the "camel-hair" type (yes, that's what they are called, I worked in HVAC for a few years before coming to the dark side) that looks like fibers inside of a cardboard frame. The fibers are made of fiberglass. They also sell that material in bulk rolls, you can get it at Grainger - 14 bucks for 20 feet long by 1 inch thick by 30 inches wide.

      http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp ?xi=xi&ItemId=1611632110&ccitem=

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
    12. Re:Request for fan filter material info by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      What you want is the fiberglass filter media type. It is exceedingly cheap, easy to work with, and effective. You can get a roll at Grainger - 20 ft. long, 30 in. wide, 1 in. thick for a whopping 14 bucks.

      http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp ?xi=xi&ItemId=1611632110&ccitem=

      That roll should last you the rest of your life :) And yes, it is anti-static, it's glass after all. If you're paranoid, spray some fabric softener on it. The dust that sticks to it, however, is certainly not. Be sure to change the filter regularly!

      --
      bash: rtfm: command not found
    13. Re:Request for fan filter material info by msim · · Score: 1

      i was going to suggest using chux superwipes but those scrub pads look like a hell of a lot better & rigid.

      I might try this out on my front case fan when i get a chance.

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    14. Re:Request for fan filter material info by 2TecTom · · Score: 1

      IMHE, the very best way to clean out a system is to use the air flow from a vacuum cleaner exhaust. It's warm, low pressure, high volume and filtered.

      Compressors and cans are far more dangerous and not as quick or nearly as effective, IMHO.

      --
      Words to men, as air to birds.
    15. Re:Request for fan filter material info by 2TecTom · · Score: 1

      Under every new motherboard is a sheet of exactly what you're looking for. Perhaps some local compshop that does custom builds will have some motherboard boxes they've not yet discarded?

      I, myself, just cut squares from filters designed to fit standard forced air vents which are commonly available at most hardware stores. If you're worried about static just use a square of metal screen door on either side and ground it. I suspect that might be overkill, however. As well, there is an antistatic carpet spray and you might consider buying a portable air cleaner with a negative ion generator. I own a Bionaire which is quite effective. http://www.bionaire.com/ Oh, and as well, perhaps you could get a vac that blows, eh.

      On a clear day, you can see the server. ;~)

      --
      Words to men, as air to birds.
    16. Re:Request for fan filter material info by tricorn · · Score: 1

      Where do you get the idea that glass is anti-static? Glass is an effective insulator and very easy to build up static electricity on it.

    17. Re:Request for fan filter material info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey fag, get a fuckin clue. parent is absolutely right, it has to do with the density (or lack thereof) of fiberglass... i can see that physical science is beyond your grasp, so just take my word for it, mmmmmkay?

  83. I have free hard drive cooling by vadim_t · · Score: 1

    Or at least according to this article. My Lian Li case happens to have two intake fans blowing on the same place where the hard disks are mounted.

    Of course that's only if you don't count the more than $100 the case cost. Can't say I regret it though.

  84. Not noisy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps I missed something. First the author says that previous systems were noisy, then he happily mounts a fan (and to make things worse, from a heat-removing airflow POV he points it at the PCB of the drive - the part that the least needs extra air-flow for cooling.

  85. Slashdot top news again by flibuste · · Score: 1

    Too bad there is no link to "Buy Slashdot a brain" - it is needed before buying books.

  86. You Dolt! by Roofus · · Score: 1

    You just killed an entire industry with your $0.10 solution!

    1. Re:You Dolt! by SA+Stevens · · Score: 1

      Naw. The 'entire industry' is now working overtime to come up with a translucent mounting bracket with cold-cathode backlight, available in four color shades.

  87. Solution for the Toronto Inclined by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    Go to a place called Abova All they have been buying all the heat sinks they could find for like 30 years and they still have huge crates full. They have industrial illuminum heat sinks too big to mount on your car!

    And they have tonnes of little ones, buy like $2 worth of aluminum heatsinks and get some thermal adhesive (available most hardware stores) you're done.

  88. Car Amp by hckrdave · · Score: 0

    Wow that is cool i had been thinking lately of how to zip tie some cool LED fans to the amp in my car. Got to love the hardware store

  89. Phhhht! by electrichamster · · Score: 1

    I've been doing this for ages, but even cheaper!
    http://www.electrichamster.net/fans.jpg

    1. Re:Phhhht! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  90. Wow-Screw-down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Who knew you could attach things to other things using a bracket and screws? Thanks again Slashdot."

    So that's how geeks have sex!?

  91. Fan bracket by myhrd · · Score: 1

    Gee, I did this to cool a 30 Meg Seagate in an XT box back in the 80's. The drive wouldn't work without it. I've used the trick in many PC cases since then. You must get a well balanced fan or it will shake loose over time an it does concentrate the dust on the drive.

  92. Cooling the wrong part of the harddrive? by h4x0r-3l337 · · Score: 1

    Seems to me like this method would mostly cool the circuitboard, whereas the part that gets hot is the metal housing (or rather: what's inside).

  93. Honestly... by t35t0r · · Score: 1

    What's the difference in the longetivity of a hard drive because of adding a cooling solution? I've got SGI machines more than 8yrs old, that have been running virtually 24/7 nonstop, and still have their original scsi hard drives. These machines are beasts with dual power supplies (sometimes up to 1000W).

    How long has this cooling craze been going on? Seems like it just started a few years ago. People have become so bored that they mod just about anything nowadays. It's more like a competition to see who can get the most fans into their $50.00 acrylic see-thru case.

  94. Disk cooling hype by SunFan · · Score: 1


    You know, even $35,000 UNIX workstations don't have "disk coolers". They just mount the drives with air space all around them (about 1/2 inch top and bottom) and allow the regular case fan to do all the cooling work. This is adequate even for super-fast 10KRPM and 15KRPM SCSI drives.

    The super-expensive RAID arrays do the same. They just allow space around the drives and have regular fans pull air through the case.

    --
    -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    1. Re:Disk cooling hype by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 1

      Shhh!!!

      You're going to ruin my plans to roll out a $59.99 cooling solution for the system speaker.

      From the literature:

      When your computer won't post, often times the system speaker beeping is the only diagnostic tool you will have to troubleshoot the problem. Speaker overheating essentially circumvents this important line of defense against total system failure. Enter the Acousti-Ice 9000: The only system speaker cooling system which guarantees your system speaker will not fail, or they will replace it for free!

      If people figure out that most parts of their system don't actually need expensive and exotic cooling, how am I supposed to make any money?

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
    2. Re:Disk cooling hype by SunFan · · Score: 1


      Uh oh, what about when I say the CPUs in a lot of expensive computers don't even have fans on the CPU heatsinks in addition to no disk coolers? (they just use the case fans for everything)

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
  95. Get the heat out of the case by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

    Here's what I did when facing a similar situation : get the heat out of the case.

    Bay Fan

    Note that that's just the first Google hit I found for case fan exhaust twin bay 5.25 - the picture is what I am talking about, I don't know anything about the company.

    All the hot air goes to the top of the case, this fan has twin horizontally mounted fans blowing air out the front of the case. It dropped the case temperature quite a bit, enough that my system went from 'generally unstable' to rock solid. The nice thing about it is that it uses ducted fans without obstructions, they seemed to be very effective in getting the air to go how I wanted it to go and not just swirling around.

    --
    Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    1. Re:Get the heat out of the case by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Lots of overclocker and case-mod-type people cut holes in the top of their cases and mount fans there. That seems like it might work a little better, since I wouldn't want air blowing out the front of the case...

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Get the heat out of the case by jarich · · Score: 1
      Good solution but I've noticed that most setups with two small fans tend to be louder than I like.

      In one of my boxes, I pulled both the 5 1/4 inch bay covers and put an 80mm fan on the front. It blows air into the case, directly over the hard drives. It's not that pretty, but it's effective.

  96. this is ghetto.... by Atilla · · Score: 1

    but it works VERY well. i've been doing this for a long time. I have one processor fan (like a slim athlon fan) per hard drive, blowing on the circuit board. the hard drives are 36G 10k scsi drives, which get very hot by themselves.

    it is sufficient to cool the circuit board - the rest of the hard drive will stay fairly cool as well. It seems like the chips on the circuit board produce more heat than the plates.

    i gotta admit, I never used the brackets, I've just been hanging the fans with zip-ties :-)

    --
    --- sig moved for great justice.
  97. Sometimes it does not take much by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 1

    like the Entec case I have, the cage where the floppy and two drives mount.

    I had an old 4G scsi there and an 8G deskstar, when things got going, or just sat there those disks would get so hot the drives would stop, or make the "click of death". Scary.

    Scorched my finger touching it, and the "how to fix" was really simple:

    Pushed out the bay cover under the floppy, glued in place (intake), strung a fan using thick plastic coated twist ties (son's toys from Xmas) over the front side of the two drives and a 4mm x 40mm fan that was 7Volted (oppose 12V and 5V rail).

    It is not loud, but the cooling is great (no more burned digits).

    Even when the fan gets squeaky, take it out, peel back the sticker over the bearing and dip a straightened papercliip into regular engine oil and one or two drops is usually good for a year or so. If the sticker does not re-apply, just use regular tape (just in case the oil drips, don't want it slinging around inside the case).

    Even revived an old TNT2 fan that had seized after years of use.

    Yeah, I scoffed at first at TFA, but *I* didn't think of it. I just did the same thing I described above with an 80mm fan in the 5 1/4" bay.

    (Yeah, Ghetto as hell looking case, but unless the house gets up to 120F inside...everything will be at a decent operating temp)

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  98. I hope you're being funny by benhocking · · Score: 1

    You never know around these parts, but I assume you are being funny. If so, I did find it funny, although I would have found it funnier if I wasn't a little worried you weren't being serious! (On the off chance that you are being serious, read here - from the library of congress, although you can find similar material in many other well respected websites - about how the Coriolis effect does not determine the direction the water swirls in the drain.)

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  99. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by whoever57 · · Score: 1
    I have been lead to understand that drives don't typically fail because their platters got hot.

    From personal experience I can tell you that drives can sometime get unreliable while hot, but be OK once cooled again. I have some drives in cheap removable trays -- the trays have their own fan and sometimes these fans fail.

    I recently dealt with a case where one tray fan failed and the drive got hot enough to discolor the plastic tray, and cause all kinds of errors from the drive; yet, once the tray is replaced, the drives now seem to work -- mostly.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  100. BIG MISTAKE: Use only nylon straps as brackets. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Informative


    Big Mistake in the article: Use only nylon straps as brackets. A metal strap conducts the fan vibration to the hard drive.

  101. Re:Woah! I was so close! by TrevorB · · Score: 1

    Ahh, you young whippersnappers (and yes, I'm 30).

    I remember such overheating problems with the old Commodore 64's 1541 drive that I had a flat, 6 inch diameter house "big clip on" style fan that I simply placed face down over the cooling holes at the rear (as you can see in the picture).

    It was the only thing that could keep the drive cool enough for extended sessions of Mail Order Monsters. Otherwise the drive would go out of alignment *again* and it was time to go crying to Dad to get it fixed at the repair shop.

  102. Noise? by EEBaum · · Score: 1

    What of the noise? He's attaching a fan to the hard drive with metal parts, and it looks like his hard drive is attached to the case without any noise-reducing apparatus. It's sure to add yet another irritating drone to the system.

    After making a low-noise PC, (3 quiet fans, runs very cool) I can't imagine putting an extra fan in for something that a bit of improved airflow design could alleviate.

    --
    -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
  103. PC cases suck anyway by Mike+Hicks · · Score: 1

    Yeah, this really isn't the right way to mount a fan. Hard drive specs (which nobody gets, but whatever) say that you should have air moving across the drive, as though it is a column in a tube or something, not straight at one of the big faces. This is definitely not the recommended practice, since the air doesn't really have anywhere to go.

    I really like the Apple G5 design where they had somewhere around 8 fans, yet the system was super-quiet because they were all big and ran at a low speed. There were no CPU fans per se, though the heatsinks were pretty monster. The airflow was obvious -- straight through the machine.

    Anyway, PC cases induce nightmares when thinking about airflow. I wish they were as simple as the Apple design.

    Another thing: I got scared a while back when I had to move my computer into a new case. I neglected to put in a fan in the mounting bracket in front of my hard drives, and they got to be very toasty. Simply adding an 80mm fan to the place where it was supposed to go helped a lot.

  104. Why not a removable harddrive tray? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've had a number of drives fail in the past few years in my home computer, until I installed removable harddrive trays. I haven't had any drive failures since.

    The ones I use have a front and rear fan built in.

    They also have the added convenience of making it easy to swap drive.

    Downside is they require a front accessible 5.25 drive bay.

    This is a similar tray: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?p roduct_code=50261146&pfp=SEARCH

  105. Waste of bays by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like a big waste of space to me. If you have enough free drive bays for this to work, chances are you don't need seperate HD cooling.

    I've got 11 drives in my system currently, there is plainly just not enough space for this to work. Think I'm sticking with the 10$ box fan blowing through the side of my case.

  106. whois by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Registrant:
    Commission Junction
    1501 Chapala St.
    Santa Barbara, CA 93101
    US

    Domain Name: ANRDOEZRS.NET

    Administrative Contact:
    Hostmaster, ValueClick hostmaster@valueclick.com
    ValueClick, Inc.
    4353 Park Terrace Dr
    Westlake Village, CA 91361
    US
    818-575-4500 fax: 818-575-4501

    Technical Contact:
    Network Solutions, LLC. customerservice@networksolutions.com
    13200 Woodland Park Drive
    Herndon, VA 20171-3025
    US
    1-888-642-9675 fax: 571-434-4620

    Record expires on 05-Apr-2007.
    Record created on 05-Apr-2004.
    Database last updated on 23-Apr-2005 15:33:41 EDT.

    Domain servers in listed order:

    NS2.CJ.COM 216.34.209.26
    NS3.CJ.COM 63.236.5.157

  107. Goddamned Marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What an unabashed load of crap. The top of the page has a big banner ad to PC Mall. The bottom of the page says "You can buy fans at PC Mall" with the PC Mall being a clickable link. Slashdot submission review editors can really be gullible fools sometimes.

  108. Ideas for improvements? by hedora · · Score: 1

    Mounting the fan this way would help, but it seems difficult to scale up to multiple drives. On my home system, I have two hard drives in large CD-ROM bays and want to mount one low speed fan that blows air past the drives from the front of the case to the back.

    I've jerry-rigged this already with some tape. The CPU temperature dropped by 20F, and the hard drive's temperature dropped to room temperature + 5F. (I also opened up the front of the case which probably helped a lot...)

    The problem is that the installation looks terrible, and is noisy, since the fan is exposed to the outside of the case. Also, I don't really trust the tape to hold up over time.

    I would like to do something that is more permanent and that is completely internal.

    Hard drives have screw holes on the bottom that can be used for mounting, but these holes aren't used by the hard drive brackets that I have.

    Perhaps one of them could be used to mount an 80mm fan like this, entirely inside of the case. (Some other case fan would be needed to provide fresh air, but this would make sure that the drives had air-flow.)

    Here's the tricky part. I've drawn the fan so that it is flush with the cd-rom and the top of the case. It turns out that standard 80mm fans actually do take up all of the space. So, what type of commonly available, cheap mounting bracket will connect one of the screw holes on the bottom of the drive to the mounting hole on the fan? I think the best way to go is to pick something that will bend, and then use 2-4 of them to keep the fan from moving. Any ideas?

  109. whole hawg by zogger · · Score: 1

    I say go 4 brackets instead, whut the heck (if yoiu can make the hole line up with the correct size brackets). Still got the side screw holes for mounting.

    Or, go whole hawg but cheaper, just make your own brackets with your own drill and some scrap flat plate.

    anyway, simple nice hack.

  110. RAID 1 with spare? by Dolda2000 · · Score: 1
    TFA: I use 3 hard drives in every one of my 20 servers, 2 running as a RAID-1 and the third as a spare in case the raid goes down.
    Correct me if I'm wrong now, but isn't a spare drive completely unnecessary with RAID 1? With RAID 1, you can just have all your drives in the array, always, and the controller won't have to copy the data to the spare if an active drive goes down.

    AFAIK, one uses spares with RAID 5 or similar solutions. When using RAID 5, one would have a spare to take over if an active drive goes down -- if it was active before it would expand the size of the array and would have data on its own on it, and thus couldn't take over for another drive.

    I realize that RAID 1 with a spare may yield slightly better nominal write performance if in a software RAID array. OTOH, three drives would also yield better nominal read performance than just 2 drives and a spare. And, it wouldn't matter at all with hardware accelerated RAID.

    So my point is: Is it just me, or is this guy going all wrong about his RAID? I just want to verify my thoughts, if someone would spar with me.

    1. Re:RAID 1 with spare? by ledow · · Score: 1

      I suppose the logic is that having a spare sitting around doing nothing means it's not subject to the same wear and tear as the others in the RAID and therefore more likely to be a reliable replacement once one of the drives does fail?

  111. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by orangepeel · · Score: 3, Informative

    The other replies to your question are good.

    But there's more to the answer than they realize.

    Let me start with a story...

    At my first job about 10 years ago, I wound up helping out at the IT department of a cellular phone company (no, a real cell phone manufacturer, not a service provider). One of the first tasks I had was to replace the CPU cooling fans on a few Sun desktop workstations. At the time, these Sun systems were incredibly expensive - about $40K each if I remember correctly. That, coupled with the fact that this was my first job, made me really nervous. I'd had a little experience with computer cooling fans before, but more with just general electronics. So when I pulled the case off the first system and removed the old, dead CPU cooling fan, I focused 100% on making sure that I matched the polarity of the wires on new cooler with what the old cooler had been using.

    And in being so nervous, and so focused on the polarity, I completely missed the obvious question: does the CPU cooling fan pull air upward, or does it blow air downwards? I just stood there next to the system, yelling at myself in my mind for having failed to take notice of the airflow direction.

    Now today of course, I've had more experience than I could possibly want with cooling fans. But remember, back then in the early 1990's, A) I was young, and B) CPU cooling fans weren't so common.

    Anyway, I immediately realized my problem. But not wanting to let on to the guy who worked in that cube that I wasn't sure how to reinstall the CPU cooling fan inside his $40K system, I thought about it and decided that it would be most efficient if the CPU cooler wasn't fighting the natural tendency of heat to rise. And given that the cooler included a channeled heat-sink, it seemed reasonable that a fan extracting air upwards would work best oriented that way. And hey, power supply fans exhaust heated air from the supply, not force air it into the supply, right? So I installed the fan facing upwards, put the cover back on the system, and moved on.

    Imagine my surprise (and fear) when I arrived at the next system with a dead fan, and I realized that the fan was facing downwards. I was now sweating, as I was worried that the CPU in the first system was at risk of frying. That concern was further heightened as all the subsequent CPU cooling fans were also mounted pointing down. Needless to say, except for that first system, I mounted all the other CPU fans facing downwards.

    But this still perplexed me. Why would the cooling fan be blowing downwards, fighting the natural tendency of heat to rise? (These were desktop systems -- the CPU wasn't going to wind up sideways or upside-down -- so the potential for changes in orientation didn't occur to me.) At that inexperienced age, and back then when CPU cooling fans were so rare that I'd had no experience with them before, this really baffled me. So much so that, later in the day when I was trying to resolve a computer problem for someone in the RF department, I actually spontaneously launched into the story about what had happened earlier in the day, and asked the guy working in the cube if he, as an EE, could shed any light on the situation. He laughed at the story. As did the guy from a neighboring cube who'd stopped by to chat. But the magic thing was, he actually had an answer.

    Not only that, it was a really good answer.

    I'm paraphrasing, but here's what he said, roughly:

    "Well, you're right. If you mount the fan blowing upwards, you're not fighting the natural tendency of heat to rise, and given the channeling effect of the heat-sink, the fan is going to have a cooling effect."

    (Ok, good so far ... but then he went on...)

    "But you're forgetting the fan itself in this situation! If you mount the fan facing upwards, then it will actually be pulling the heated air through itself. The fan itself will actually heat up as a result of that, and the bearings aren't going t

    --
    Whoever designed level 61 in Frozen Bubble is a sadistic bastard.
  112. Re:Great! by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 1
    Not for server grade systems. You get quite a lot of noise from the case fans

    And after having to spend several nights sleeping on the floor of my Server Room, you are dead on right!
    1. :-\

    --
    I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
    I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
  113. zip ties? by ocularDeathRay · · Score: 1

    I currently have a fan mounted at an angle under my drive bays. I just used small nylon "zip ties" to attatch it to some unused screw holes in my case. Might have cost more than 10 cents... but not much more, and I didn't have to buy the screws either. Plumbers Epoxy putty is another thing I use for stuff like this sometimes, just make sure you wrap it around the stuff you are holding because it doesn't stick to some materials.

    --
    Obama is a twitter sock puppet
  114. Mythbusters by John+Jorsett · · Score: 1
    The magnetic field produced by a small DC fan might not be enough to faze the platter.


    I seem to recall an episode of Mythbusters where they tried to find out just how much of a magnetic field it took to do damage to things like floppy disks. To actually affect data, I think they had to resort to neodymium magnets that would about crush your fingers if you got them in between a pair of the magnets. And I think they had to rub them directly on the disks. That's my recollection anyway; I wasn't paying close attention to the TV at the time.

  115. Cools the circuit board and thermistor not platter by kriston · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a great idea if all you needed to do was cool the circuit board. The fans don't effectively cool the platters, though, and sometimes that thermistor that tells you the temperature is mounted on the same side as the circuit board, getting cooled by that fan, and showing you lower temperatures, but the platters are still running hot.

    --

    Kriston

  116. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

    I must thank you for sharing very interesting experience from you life. Thanks :))

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
    #
  117. double-sided tape anyone?? by amigabill · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've used double-sided sticky foam tape to attach 40mm fans to hard drives before. The foam tape can be stacked a few layers high to provide room for air to flow away as it is pushed down against the drive.

    Considering the length of a roll of this stuff and the number of fans you can mount in the fashion I have done, it's probably cheaper per fan than those 10cent brackets are.

    And I've never had any problems with magnetic field interference with data on the disk. Everything has worked great, and I've been doing this for at least 10 years.

  118. Re:Woah! I was so close! by orionware · · Score: 1

    I also remember the 1541 drives. I actually had no top on mine because it often would go out of alignment and if you had the patience to mess with the alignment screws you could get lucky and put her back into alignment.

    All that solved by the 1581 3.5 inch drive and later the 10 meg external hard drive that was quite literally twice the size of the 1541.

    But I could save everything you ever needed to save ever on it!

    --


    Karma means nothing to me, so suck it...
  119. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

    "Full height 5.25 drives that would burn fingers and break your foot too, if you dropped it. I think it weighs close to 10 pounds. It'd probably still work after the fall"

    And the armature magnets will be powerful enough to lift a car. Neat!

    Seriously, if any of these drives die, salvage the magnets, but be careful with them or you *will* lose a finger.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  120. Okay $.01 or $100 to add cooling, so? by KarmaBlackballed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have never met anyone that expressed a need to specifically add cooling to their hard disk in the first place. Hard disks come factory sealed and if one is overheating it is defective or absorbing heat generated from other sources, like maybe a hot CPU. Cool the CPU.

    Or is he overclocking his disk from 7k rpm to 14krpm somehow? Don't get too close to that machine.

    Is this guy selling a solution to a frictional problem or a fictional problem? Shheeeez.

    --

    --- -- - -
    Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
    1. Re:Okay $.01 or $100 to add cooling, so? by raynet · · Score: 1

      My case had five 3,5" slots for hard disks and if I filled them with four 7200rpm IBM Deskstars (leaving 2-3mm gaps between them), the temperatures at idle were about 50degC and over 60degC when active and both are above the maximum operating temperatures specified by IBM. With just one 8cm fan the temperatures dropped to 35-45degC range.

      --
      - Raynet --> .
  121. Kickbacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With the plethora of lame ass, basically advertising posts Slashdot is putting on the front page, I can only assume editors are now getting kickbacks for these pathetic "stories".

  122. A general thanks to all by btarval · · Score: 2, Interesting
    My thanks for the responses, especially to joejoejoe and RabidMonkey for the airfilters idea. And also for the velcro idea.

    The one concern about the airfilter material is that they usually work using static electricity to trap the particles. I'm a little hesitant to use this so close to computer equipment. The Antec filters are specifically anti-static material. The other nice thing about them is that they are washable, so you don't have to buy a whole new set every three months.

    This is why I was looking for the anti-static foam. I may give the airfilters a limited try though, if I can't find any anti-static foam filters.

    As far as ForestGrump's suggestion that I'm bordering on paranoid, no, not at all. You should see dust I'm dealing with. The Antec filters get absolutely caked beyond belief if they aren't cleaned frequently. And unprotected boxes get filled with dust after a year. So much so that blowing out the dust with a compressed can of air is a major undertaking.

    I've already had one hard disk fail, and it was most likely due to dust. If you don't have to live with this situation, count your blessings.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
    1. Re:A general thanks to all by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "You should see dust I'm dealing with. The Antec filters get absolutely caked beyond belief if they aren't cleaned frequently. And unprotected boxes get filled with dust after a year."

      Where are your boxes? If they are in a room you use regularly, maybe you should consider buying a decent airfilter device for your _whole_ room - given that the room is so dusty.

      All that dust probably isn't that great for your lungs etc.

      Be careful when blowing out the dust. You want the dust out of the computer, but you'd also want that dust out of the room.

      --
    2. Re:A general thanks to all by btarval · · Score: 1

      That's great advice. Fortunately, the ones with the dust problem are in a remote location, so I don't have to usually breath that stuff. And yes, I do take the machines outside when blowing out the dust. It would be incredibly stupid to blow them out, only to have the dust come right back in. Granted, though, there are people who would never think of this. The air-purifier is a good idea too. Thanks! I'm going to do that.

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
  123. Nice, but not quite 10 cents by Jozer99 · · Score: 1

    For a 3 SCSI hard drive server, the cost would be more than 10 cents per bracket. I would also need to buy several fans. It is still a great idea, my only concerns are that the vibration of the poorly mounted fan could make noise and possibly have an effect on the drives lifetime. Also, it takes up a lot of space, unless the fanned drive is in the bottom bracket of your hard drive tray, it might take up the whole tray.

  124. Is CowboyNeal channeling Michael Sims? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here was I thinkling there'd be no more of this blatant kick-back crap when they fired Michael. :-(

    1. Re:Is CowboyNeal channeling Michael Sims? by msim · · Score: 1

      who the hell is/was he and why do you keep talking about him?

      and no it friggin isn't me, though i've got the same bloody name.

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
  125. ghetto rig! by krunk4ever · · Score: 1

    haha! i would do similar stuff to my setup when i'm feeling cheap and don't really care how my setup looked like. i had a similar setup, but instead of paying 10c for a piece of metal, i was going through my trash and found 2 cassette cases. i taped them on opposite side of the fan and duct tape it to the bottom of my case underneath my hdd, essentially, doing the same thing you did.

    i do have to say though, the config you have now either would only work for the hdd on the bottom of the bays or would be wasting a lot of space. i personally like a design many new cases have been incorporting where they have the hdds line up vertically instead of flat. so you can have 4 hdds lined up side by side from left to right. then in front of those hdds there's 2 openings for 2 80mm fans which i've gotta say has cooled my 4 western digital hdds quite a bit.

  126. been done by insomniac8400 · · Score: 1

    I have mounted a fan at the front of my case right in front of three drives. For those with cases that have front fans right in front of their hard drives, they already get this improvement. My case lacked a front fan mount, so I made one. But lots of people have cases with front fans in front of hard drives. This kind of improvement I'm sure has been done by many people. Nothing new, except using an L bracket rather than mounting the fan in the front of the case. I guess this is a solution for those with cases that lack front fan mounts.

  127. NOT static discharge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm betting he discharged some sort of conductive fluid. I suspect this when the drill said "is that a PDA in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" Where he inserted the drill I don't wan't to imagine.

  128. DUST!!! Look at the damn fan!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wouldn't be quite comfortable with a fan sucking air up from the base of my case and throwing it at my HDD - despite best efforts with filtration and positive-pressure, etc, the floor of my case still carries dust, and that is not something I want in my HDD's.

    I know that the spindle, etc is sealed and thus not really at issue, but if there is one board on your PC that you really don't want to fail, it's the little one that controls your hard drive.. Pretty much every other part of a PC is trivially swappable, but replacing the controller board in a hard drive is a pain in the arse.
    And if you're using a hot-swappable RAID system, then your box is probably well-enough-made to not have to worry about this kind of thing.. Or the aircon in your server room should make HDD temperature a non-issue.

    Domestic users should take this one with a pinch of salt..

  129. moderate article down? by nfarrell · · Score: 1

    If only slashcode supported moderating articles, and not just responses, we might increase the calibre of 'news'.

    Slashdotting any site is just plain fun, but who wants to hit an advertising page?

    I don't know about others, but I always try to RTFM before reading the comments, meaning others' warnings about the site not being all it seems is wasted....

  130. Hobby Lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you can by that foam at Hobby Lobby, or any arts and crafts store.You can also get it at hardware stores.You can also get aluminium mesh filter material at hardware stores, the stuff that they use on the fan-hood combo that's used above kitchen stoves in most apartments, really cheap.

  131. Quick Fix by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

    So don't mount the fan to the hard drive, mount it to the drive cage using the same 1/2 inch L-brackets. If you get noise and/or vibration, add rubber grommets.

    This has the following significant advantages:

    1. The fan vibration is only minimally transmitted to the drive, if at all (aside from the air stream).

    2. You don't have to worry about plugging and unplugging a second device every time you pull a drive. This also means that once you install the fan, you can neatly tuck away its wiring since it's not going anywhere.

    3. You can easily put a fan above AND below a particularly hot or worrisome drive.

    4. Most drive cages don't have enough extra clearance to account for the thickness of the L brackets if they're attached to the drive. This neatly sidesteps the issue.

    Sure this would then just become another ghetto-rigged case fan, but do you care THAT much? If you do, then you're the type who probably wants a full enclosure for each drive anyhow (so buy one).

    Mal-2

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    1. Re:Quick Fix by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      That makes more sense (but onlyif you have just one drive - once you add a couple more drives, most cases run out of room anyway).

      I like what one guy did - put his case in a fridge. Runs VERY cool.

  132. NOOOOOOO! by billcopc · · Score: 1

    This blasphemy!

    You do realize you run the risk of voiding your warranty, blowing up your house and creating a tachyon distortion field the size of manhattan!

    NOOOOOO you're supposed to buy the expensive Antec case with the ready-made fan-mount across your hard drive rack. Any other usage is terrorism!

    Yelling aside, why do we need the internet to tell us how to do such trivial things as screwing a bracket to a fan ? Have we become that stupid ?

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  133. Get a patent now! by nic1m · · Score: 1

    Patent this idea and get rich selling licenses!

  134. Useless by emzee · · Score: 1

    Not only should the fan be mounted to draw air away from the drive to avoid depositing tribolelectrically charged dust particles on the pc board, cooling the case won't going to do much to cool the internals on most drives. That why the author saw no temp difference on some drives even though the cases felt cooler.

  135. Useless by sagenumen · · Score: 1

    This is useless when you can't spare that space. I have 5 drives in a Lian-Li PC60 case. Filled to capacity.

  136. Where's the filter? by macraig · · Score: 1
    That's gonna be one very dust-laden HDD PCB in six months.

    I think I'll stick with my dust-free $50 Koolance solution....

  137. Re: by SPY_jmr1 · · Score: 1

    very good, you catch on quickly. ;-)

  138. Re: DOY! by FUKUSHU · · Score: 1

    Yes, yes, of course I do. but the question here is, how do you think I got played, fore I see it as someone else got played. And if this is in reference to my comment about what a waterhead is, well, not everyone knows that one. just trying to be helpfull since apparently schools no longer educate people :P

  139. Re: DOY! by SPY_jmr1 · · Score: 1

    true that it is possible that it is flat out not known by someone just out of school, but one would think the fine tradition of learning jack-and-the-beanstalk-giant's-pimple-sized amounts of slang and insults that waterhead would come up at least once or twice. as to your first question, i was simply tired, and the thread seemed to me to be of a humorous type with interesting wordplay, somewhat along the lines of "what? i said.. what??? I SAID!... WHAT?! I FUCKING SAID!!!!!!!!" and it's ilk of games.

  140. Re: yep! by FUKUSHU · · Score: 1

    and I am still aiming my comments towards the person who thinks fans don't need motors...not towards you, tis obvious you have at least some education, and I would go as far as to say your grammar is good, which in this day and age is a fracking god send! If you know what I mean? So anyhow...

  141. Re: yep! by SPY_jmr1 · · Score: 1

    anyhow.... Anyone else up for hamster fans?

  142. Re:Classic case of a measurement mistaken for real by rew · · Score: 1

    It is up to you - what do you want. Show (a good reading) or substance (good temperature of your drive platters and heads).

    Well, when the electronics go, the data is gone as well (for most users).

    Some drives have "fragile" electronics. Simply because it gets pretty hot, and cooling wouldn't be bad.

  143. Not so a good idea, there are better ideas like .. by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    ---the vacuum way---
    Hard Drive Cooling for 10 cent (you must have a vacuum cleaner):

    I have purchased almost every hard drive cooling device on the market, some costing as much as $50 or more. I have systems that place fans in front of the drive that suck air from the outside, and fans that mount underneath. The problem with these setups are that they tend to be expensive, the airflow tends to be quite low, and in general they just don't cool down the drives by more than 1 - 5 degrees. I even own one that claims an 80cfm airflow. But alas I was never satisfied with any of these cooling methods.

    For over a year now I have been able to achieve a 20 - 30 degree Celsius temperature drop on my hard drives simply by using a 10 cent roll of tape from a local hardware store.

    - 10 cent ducttape bracket
    - vacuum cleaner (the higher the power, the better the cooling!)
    - 3.5" hard drive (duh)

    -warmth on bearings-
    To be serious, I've been there, done that, and it graciously destroyed my harddrive when the fan was failing ... I came home - the fan was hot as hell, it knocked before I left, the harddrive was fried too (one of those older 5"-size-scsi-hardrives)...

    -vibration alert-
    It's better to use plastic or nylon strips instead of metal because the vibrations of the fan; Next to that the case will also take the vibrations and probably make lots more noise than in normal conditions.

    -ventilator tips-
    I am using such ventilators to cool my server rack, I got 6 mounted in them, together with a temperature meter which is built in the rack.

    The best tip you can have is to use fans of decent quality. Get the ones out of metal, because they give a extra cooling effect. Don't get the cheap (plastic) ones. Best is with ball-bearing, which is quieter than a normal sleeve-bearing.

    -still my best solution, the direct cooling way-
    8 years ago I found it it's best to use a plate under the harddrive with 4 smaller fans that blow the intake to the plate instead of suck it away - eventually put a heatsink on the harddrive and put it on with warm guiding glue/pasta and a few screws. The heatsink must be mounted on the harddrive and the fans can be mounted on the heatsink. Let it blow ON the heatsink!

    I use this method in my NAS disk (Longshine LCS8210 - which runs ucLinux) and the harddrive is cool and steady. I used this same solution in my servers and it got very steady results. Currently they are running at 35-40 degrees continuesly.

    -serverrack cooling with fans-
    The serverrack is standing in a seperate small room, which is in the winter and night 35-40 degrees celcius continuesly. The rack itself inside is mostly 30-35. The harddrives are cooled with an extra block on top and it works perfectly, the heat is reduced and gets sucked blown on by the 6 other system fans blowing towards the hard drives.

    -cooling of the room-
    The room has 2 fans on top for the summer for extracting the air and 2 fans on bottom in the summer to blow in fresh air. This directly from a air-duct. It sucks in dust as freak, so I am still trying to find better solutions on that which still gives the best airflow but least dust...

    The coolers give me 5 degrees celcius reduction, which is good. Everything stays steady and whenever it gets too hot inthere, like 45-50 degrees I put on a spare fan which takes it down 5 degrees atleast. The servers have enough cooling in them together with the rack anyways; it's just the room that gets the heat extracted out of the rack.

    -real extractor-
    I still got a real air-extractor lying here. Which can be built in the pipe. Together with waterproof housing on the back I might get the temperatures cooled down using it. I do not know. Since it's made for fairly large rooms (25m2) it should be good for a very small room with only a table with kvm and a serverrack.

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  144. Many thanks again, everyone! by btarval · · Score: 1
    There are some great ideas here. Many thanks for them! I'm going to start checking these out ASAP and this should make things much better.

    Hopefully other people can benefit by this information too.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
  145. Re: DOY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You seem to forget that slang varies wildly across the country, even assuming you're talking about the United States and not somewhere else. I never heard the term "sped" until I was talking to someone from Denver. We used references to Napa for the same effect (there is, or was, a well known mental facility in Napa). I had never heard "special education", shortened to sped, to refer to what you use the term "waterhead" for (presumably from the genetic condition of hydrocephalus), which I've also never heard of before now.

  146. Re:Cools the circuit board and thermistor not plat by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

    I bought a set of aluminium drive coolers that are smaller than what is shown in that picture for about $10 (Can) each. The fan is 6cm and about 1/4 cm thick mounted to the metal bracket. The metal bracket screws directly onto the drive using the four underside screws (won't work in an Antec mounting solution but those have cooling already ...).

    I reversed the fan so that it blew away from the drive, sucking air through the holes in the metal bracket. The bracket being thoroughly connected to the two edges of the drive quite effectively cools the entire surface of the drive.

    Even with the fan inoperative, the additional heatsink factor makes this a good solution.

    I can't find a better picture, but on page 16 of Tomauri's catalogue there's a picture near the top -- number 2048.

    --
    - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  147. Waterhead by SeanDuggan · · Score: 1

    Probably referring to hydrocephalus, a fairly common cause of mental retardation in which a baby is born with too much intercranial fluid, leading to pressure on the brain.

    --
    This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
  148. Found another case filter solution by macraig · · Score: 1

    I had read this thread last month, made a mental note of the ideas, and then forgot about it... until I was meandering through Wal-Mart tonight (errr, LAST night):

    I found a package of twelve "Vent Filters", intended to be used in floor or wall registers for central air systems. They're just rectangles of 1/16th-inch thick filter material with no framing, cut to fit the width of standard registers and intendeded to be cut to fit the length.

    As someone else in this thread noted, filters designed for high-speed airflow might not be appropriate for PC case airflow, and as it happens these are also designed specifically for the generally low air speeds of wall and floor vents.

    Price was all of a few bucks. It's made by Web Products of Kansas City, Kansas: www.webproducts.com.

    The width of these happens to fit the filter slot in the faceplate of my Antec SX1030 chassis almost perfectly; I never got a filter frame with this case, so I could either stuff several of these in there loose, cut to fit the height, or mod a frame to hold one or more.

    These might be exactly what you need for filtering your cases and fans.