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Excursions at the Speed of Light

D4C5CE writes "S/F fans can finally find out what you really get to see at relativistic velocity, and tourists are one step closer to "doing Europe in a day" in these amazing Space Time Travel simulations of the Theoretical Astrophysics & Computational Physics department at the Institute for Astronomy and Astrophysics Tübingen. They put you in a driver's seat that both Armstrong the Astronaut and Armstrong the Cyclist would equally enjoy, in simulators built to ride a bike at the speed of light."

360 comments

  1. Good Further reading.... by MrByte420 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm presently ingrossed in Brian Greene's new book called "The Fabric of the Cosmos" and does a wonderful job at creating lively understandable analogies while sticking to alot of interesting science. He covers the history and philospophy of how problems involving realtivity, time, and space have evolved - stronly reccomend it...

    --
    If religous zealots don't believe in Evolution, then why are they so worried about bird flu?
    1. Re:Good Further reading.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I assume you have also read Steven Hawkings, A Brief History of Time, if so, how does it compare? I only ask as that book is the only one I've read in that field and I found it very interesting. I'm looking for similar.

    2. Re:Good Further reading.... by MrByte420 · · Score: 1

      Yea, i've read Hawking's book - I think this is a little more up to date since his book has been out a while as this has come out last year. Its been a long time since I've read it tho so YMMV.

      --
      If religous zealots don't believe in Evolution, then why are they so worried about bird flu?
    3. Re:Good Further reading.... by 2*2*53*4127 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can't speak for any of Brian Greene's work- never read it- but if you enjoyed Hawking you NEED to read Sagan's Cosmos.

      Bringing us back on topic, it was a PBS television series as well, and included one show with light speed visualizations at the same (or better) quality than linked to in the article.

      And that was 25 years ago.

    4. Re:Good Further reading.... by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      The original 12 episode PBS version of Cosmos had a visualization of what it would be like moving around a small town in Europe if the speed of light was 30 Km an hour (or something like that). You got to see things like a near collision between a bike and a pedestrian, at relativistic speeds, and see how the events in that near accident didn't look at all simultaneous from two different points of view.
      All this was taken out for the 6 hour version of Cosmos reshown on Turner broadcasting. If you look for this on tape, make sure you get the PBS version.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    5. Re:Good Further reading.... by loraksus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you liked the first few chapters of BHOT (the historical stuff, I think the book was re-arranged, so I don't know where he put it), check out "A Short history of nearly everything" by Bill Bryson.
      Very good. As the title suggests, more on more things, developments in chemistry, biology, geology, physics, et al and Bryson keeps it very interesting. Don't bother with the abridged audiobook though (the unabridged is read by the author and is basicallly word for word)

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    6. Re:Good Further reading.... by d474 · · Score: 2, Funny
      "I'm presently ingrossed in Brian Greene's new book called "The Fabric of the Cosmos"
      *Spoiler Warning*

      Brian Greene defeats the evil dragon of ignorance at the end, but emphatically, does not get the lady.
      --
      Authority questions you. Return the favor.
  2. G forces by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What about the G forces at the speed of light? Does it just rip peoples skin off?

    --
    I like muppets.
    1. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think liquification....

    2. Re:G forces by gandalphthegreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, there aren't any G forces at the speed of light. Just getting to it and back down...

    3. Re:G forces by 3.1415926535 · · Score: 5, Informative

      G-force is caused by acceleration. Assuming you accelerate slowly enough, you can get up to $VERY_FAST without dying.

    4. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What about the G forces at the speed of light? Does it just rip peoples skin off?

      Ahhh, no. If you are not accelerating or decelerating, there is no G force.

    5. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      G force is dependent on acceleration, not velocity. If one were to be accelerated too quickly to the speed of light, you would likely not survive. But if one were to accelerate to the speed of light under livable circumstances, it would not rip your skin off. Once traveling at the speed of light, you will feel just like you feel when traveling in an airplane

    6. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Except for the problem of the air pushing against you at that speed.

    7. Re:G forces by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1, Interesting

      "G-force" is caused by your resistance to acceleration. I would assume that by the time we can travel at the speed of light, we would have solved the whole g-force problem as well..

    8. Re:G forces by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a little sad that most people still don't understand the difference between speed and acceleration. When I first read about the Scientific Revolution as a kid, the writer spent a lot of time sneering at medieval scholars who stubornly stuck to Aristotle's physics despite all the experimental evidence showing that it was wrong. But as far as most people are concerned (including the script writers on Star Trek) Aristotle has never been debunked.

    9. Re:G forces by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      How do you get to light speed without accelerating?

    10. Re:G forces by DrunkenTerror · · Score: 1

      Infinite energy.

    11. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The G forces might not be bad, but the tidal forces surely would be.

    12. Re:G forces by Various+Assortments · · Score: 1

      You don't, but you can get there by accelerating at 1 g or less if you want.

    13. Re:G forces by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 5, Funny

      Stand still, and let the rest of the universe move.

    14. Re:G forces by Jozer99 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thats one long block! The movie is 3 or 4 seconds long, so that is a 1,200,000 km street block.

    15. Re:G forces by deansfurniture5 · · Score: 1

      not quite. if you watch the bottom of the screen, it's not going at the speed of light the whole time.

    16. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I cast fire shield!

    17. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      come into existence already doing c? (like when a photon is emitted)

    18. Re:G forces by Matt+Edd · · Score: 1

      Tidal forces are do to gradients in gravity... completely irrelevant to this topic.

    19. Re:G forces by qmaqdk · · Score: 5, Informative
      A human being can tolerate up to 5 G (fighter pilots can go to 9 G, but only for short periods of time). That is an acceleration of about 50 m/s^2. If you were able to sustain this acceleration all the way to light speed (which you wouldn't because near light speed the amount of energy needed to accelerate tends to infinity) you would have to keep accelerating for

      300000000/50 = 6000000 seconds, or about 70 days.

      Deceleration would require the same amount of time. So the Tübingen experience would be a 140-day-not-very-pleasent-5-G bike ride :)

      --
      My UID is prime. Hah!
    20. Re:G forces by Karl+Tacheron · · Score: 1

      Human beings have neither the aural nor the psychological capacity to withstand the awesome power of traveling at light speed. Were you to go that fast, your mind would cave in and your heart would explode within your chest. We went through five guys before we figured that out.

    21. Re:G forces by Fussen · · Score: 1

      Instantaniously? It might be a fine mist of human vapor.


      PEW!

    22. Re:G forces by back_pages · · Score: 5, Funny
      It's a little sad that most people still don't understand the difference between speed and acceleration. When I first read about the Scientific Revolution as a kid, the writer spent a lot of time sneering at medieval scholars who stubornly stuck to Aristotle's physics despite all the experimental evidence showing that it was wrong. But as far as most people are concerned (including the script writers on Star Trek) Aristotle has never been debunked.

      Ha, that's easy for a level 7 magic user to say! Some people simply don't have the high INT scores to understand the difference between speed and acceleration. That's why they're so BAD at using a bow and arrow, or even a sling (even level 1 wizards can use a sling hahaa). Anyway, after slaying this sweet dragon last week, I found like a million +2 INT hats. Maybe I should sell them and get rich then everyone would know the difference between acceleration and speed and you wouldn't have a reason to be so sad.

      Btw, that was a hilarious email forward you sent me about "10 ways warriors are dumb". You should add a new one to the list 11) Warriors can't even name five flaws in Aristotle's physics!! haha So is your mom still mad or can we play at your house again on Tuesday?

    23. Re:G forces by J+Mack+Daddy · · Score: 1

      Yeah I think so. Kinda like on Spaceballs when he gives the order to accelerate to Ludicrous speed. Damn near rips the skin off his face.

      --

      Jiggity

    24. Re:G forces by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      Do I get points for spotting the paraphrased dogma reference?

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    25. Re:G forces by Xzzy · · Score: 1

      Unless of course you have the misfortune of travelling the speed of light in an atmosphere. The G forces may not rip any skin off, but I bet air would singe it pretty damn well.

    26. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perfectly superflous. I love it!

    27. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then i'll vomit out the window and hit the guys trying to shoot at us, that'll show them.

    28. Re:G forces by fm6 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not bad, for a bot. Is your source code available?

    29. Re:G forces by fodi · · Score: 1

      fighter pilots are human too, you know.

    30. Re:G forces by 3.1415926535 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then you can't have rest mass, and I like my mass where it is, thank you very much. ;)

    31. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is that possible? what is "still" anyway?

    32. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they say love hurts!

    33. Re:G forces by blueadept1 · · Score: 0

      Ew- Nobody wants a simulator for that.

    34. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A subset of humans, logically.

    35. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You can't actually accelerate to the speed of light, regardless of the acceleration rate (you have to start at the speed of light). Special relativity describes the behavior of particles of finite mass below the speed of light. As you approach the speed of light (from below), mass goes to infinity, and time and length go to zero.

      l' = l0/gamma
      t' = t0/gamma
      m' = m0*gamma

      gamma = 1/sqrt(1-Beta^2) (-> inf. as Beta^2 -> 1)

      Beta = v/c (-> 1 as v -> c)

      where v is the particle velocity, and Beta c is the speed of light.

    36. Re:G forces by rubycodez · · Score: 2, Informative

      it's a funny thing, what happens is that you can accelerate subjectively at 5G or whatever rate you want indefinitely, and you'll never reach lightspeed. An outside observer would see your rate of acceleration decrease as you approach the speed of light, such that you never reach the speed of light.

    37. Re:G forces by +InvaderSkoodge · · Score: 1

      Now I remember! The engines don't move the ship, they move the universe around the ship!

    38. Re:G forces by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They changed C to 30km/h in order to see the relativistic effects without that annoying windburn.

    39. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it hard for you to breathe with your head stuck so far up your anterior node?

      Signed,
      Another math/physics geek.

    40. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      We're talking about the speed of light, presumably in space. Not in the atmosphere, not in water, not in Aunt Ester's Fameous Jello Salad, or for that matter in anything else, because even light dosen't travel at the speed of light in *ANY* of those things. Light only travels at the speed of light in a vacuum!

      Next you'll say "in which case, you'll run out of oxygen in about 30 seconds, what with the riding of bicycles in outerspace and all" and then you will deserve to be kicked very hard in the balls.

    41. Re:G forces by shawb · · Score: 1

      Zero rest mass would do the trick as well.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    42. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's a little sad that most people still don't understand the difference between speed and acceleration.

      It's even sadder that many people don't understand the difference between speed (a scalar) and velocity (a vector).

    43. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      *puts on robe and wizard hat ...* :)

    44. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean a human being can only tolerate up to 5G for extended periods. Humans can sustain much higher Gs (e.g. being in a high-speed automobile accident) so long as they pass by relatively quickly.

    45. Re:G forces by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1
      In principle this is correct. Unfortunately, it's not possible in practice.

      Why? Space isn't empty.

      Let's say you're in a machine with the frontal area of 10 sq meters. IIRC, in "empty space" there's about 1 vagrant ionised atom of some variety (usually hydrogen) for every cubic meter of space. Now, accelerate as gradually as you want, by the time you get to 9/10 c you're going to be plowing through a veritable wall of hydrogen and the occassional dust particle at relativistic speeds. You're be a glowing radioactive mess in fairly short order. Sure: send out an EM field ahead of yourself to try and deflect it. At near light speed, the EM will seem to leave your ship at light speed, but relative to the poor unsuspecting dust speck, the field hit it and some tiny fraction of a second your ship is occupying the space that dust spect was. The energy required to move that little dust speck, and the trillions of other dust specks and atoms in your way, would be truly incredible, and would only add to the mass of your ship, making it harder to accellerate and harder to miss dust specks and vagrant atoms and other particles of crap floating around in the void.

      But you are correct - it's the accelleration that kills you (or decelleration, in the case of defenestration...)

      RS

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    46. Re:G forces by DittoACE2000 · · Score: 0

      G forces are related to acceleration which is changeg velocity over time - so if you're staying at the speed of light there's zero acceleration.

      On the other hand, we're going from zero to the speed of light, which does involve a significant ammount of effort.

      Also consider that this simulation essentially only captures the Lorentz contractions at certain speeds. That means that points perpendicular to the direction of motion are lorentz contracted/expanded. That's why you're getting a fish eye effect that diminishes towards the middle of the video and increases toward the outside.

      However the simlution is thin on what actually goes on:

      -No red/blueshifting: since points are contracting so are observed EM wavelengths, and as a result are color shifted (across the whole spectrum, including IR and UV.)
      -Points in the movie would be seen in different times (although you wouldn't notice this since the world is static/)

    47. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even you do realize, that riding a bike in space is IMPOSSIBLE?

    48. Re:G forces by silverburn · · Score: 1

      Never mind that vapour; technically if you moved from zero to whatever speed instantanously, wouldn't all your molecules be instantly turned to energy?

    49. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got 0wn3d. Take it like a man instead of whining about it.

    50. Re:G forces by Aranwe+Haldaloke · · Score: 1

      Red Mage? Is that you?

    51. Re:G forces by zkn · · Score: 1

      Not on a bike you can't. The airresistanse depends on you volocity^2 and would definately tear you apart, even if have very smooth skin.

    52. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      > But you are correct - it's the accelleration that kills you (or decelleration, in the case of defenestration...)

      It's actually differential acceleration that's the killer isn't it?

      You can survive any level of acceleration as long as it applies uniformly to every part of you, (and in fact you won't even feel it) - like gravity does.

      The problem when you smack into something is that only part of you is being directly deccelerated, and your body is left to provide the internal forces needed to get the rest of you up/down to speed.
      Which it can do to a point. Beyond that you turn into a paste.

    53. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      G force http://80scartoons.co.uk/botp8.jpg is from my childhood - so leave it alone will ya

    54. Re:G forces by CarpetShark · · Score: 1
      What about the G forces at the speed of light? Does it just rip peoples skin off?
      No, it's just a little rough on the crotch ;)
    55. Re:G forces by dawhippersnapper · · Score: 1

      How would it rip your skin off? It seems to me your whole body would feel the same force and stay intact while accelerating? Where would your skin rip off to?

      --
      Freedom is fragile and must be protected. To sacrifice it, even as a temporary measure, is to betray it.
    56. Re:G forces by melodraama · · Score: 1

      > > But you are correct - it's the accelleration that kills you (or decelleration, in the case of defenestration...)

      > It's actually differential acceleration that's the killer isn't it?

      > You can survive any level of acceleration as long as it applies uniformly to every part of you, (and in fact you won't even feel it) - like gravity does.

      No you can't survive any level of acceleration, even if it applies uniformly. If the acceleration is great enough, everyone turns into pancake.

      And how dare you not to feel the gravity, you insensitive clod?

    57. Re:G forces by Inkieminstrel · · Score: 1

      Actually, once you were at the speed of light, an eternity would pass and the entire universe would die its heat death before you'd feel a second pass.

    58. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the previous poster is right. A force obeying the equivalence principle, that ALL bodies are accelerated equally, is undetectable as such. You only get pancaked because the force of the spaceship on your body is not uniform.

    59. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if it takes that much time, would the subject still see the difference?

      The way people see is quite adaptive: if you see the world upside down for a period of a couple days, you would be able to see the world upsideup.

    60. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No G forces but you would get for sure a nice skin tan due to air friction.

      That bike could be a nice fireball.

    61. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to say what several other people already said a long time ago.

    62. Re:G forces by Jozer99 · · Score: 1

      Great! Then I have exceeded the speed of light! All you need is a 24 speed bicycle and my 1337 sk1llz!

    63. Re:G forces by NichG · · Score: 1

      It's hard to accelerate a person uniformly. Best way to do this would be to fall down a steep and very long gravity well. Of course, you also have to consider tidal forces there, but they can be reduced if you make the system even larger. However, a traditional means of acceleration (i.e. car ride) will accelerate with a very sharply falling off force, applied first to the layer of atoms at your back/feet/whatever part, which then must push the rest of your body. In extreme cases, the resulting wave of compression isn't very good for your internal organs.

    64. Re:G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once traveling at the speed of light, you will feel just like you feel when traveling in an airplane.

      i thought as you go closer to the speed of light your mass also increases. and at the speed of light, your mass tends become infinite. thereby making life quite dificult. am i missing something?

  3. Well by TheShadowzero · · Score: 1

    I'd be interested to know how expensive this was... Anyways, I would DEFINATELY love to try this.

    --
    If history repeats itself, why can't we study the future?
    1. Re:Well by fredrikj · · Score: 1
  4. Beyond cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    it has always been difficult to me to understand modern physics since they generally aren't so full of 'seeable' stuff like classical physics. this is a dream come true for a computer guy who wants to know more about the rules of the world around him.

    1. Re:Beyond cool! by wahsapa · · Score: 1

      not to mention this would be a total trip with some lsd

    2. Re:Beyond cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      problem is, they ignore significant effects of relativistic speeds: length contraction and time dilation.

      At the speed of light, your entire 180 degree front/back panorama becomes squished to a line that sits at the 90 degree mark.

      And, no matter how far you travel at the speed of light (as long as it was a finite distance to the outside observer), the trip was instantaneous to you.

  5. My brother can beat that... by whitetiger0990 · · Score: 1

    He can run through that city faster then that.

    Does this mean that the people who travel daily live longer in relitive to everything else?

    --
    You have been warned.
    1. Re:My brother can beat that... by deansfurniture5 · · Score: 1

      Does this mean that the people who travel daily live longer in relitive to everything else? Time for them passes slower, but it is by such a miniscule amount that it doesn't really affect anything.

    2. Re:My brother can beat that... by imnojezus · · Score: 1

      Actually, technically, time doesn't pass slower for them. To the accelerated traveler, time passes at the same speed as it does when they're "stationary". Any stationary observer watching the traveler would perceive the traveler's time to be moving slower; but for the traveler, an hour is still an hour.
      Either way, you're still only talking billionths of a second.

    3. Re:My brother can beat that... by whitetiger0990 · · Score: 1

      Hah but they do live longer.

      --
      You have been warned.
    4. Re:My brother can beat that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they spent more than the difference commuting.

      If you could drive 200 hours to extend your life 1 second, would you?

      Hmmm... On the other hand, If I could get someone else to drive while I work on homework...

    5. Re:My brother can beat that... by x2A · · Score: 1

      Assuming that people who aren't travelling aren't moving, but that would be an incorrect assumtion.

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    6. Re:My brother can beat that... by shawb · · Score: 1

      That's the theory for Ender living for thousands of years in the later books.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  6. Sounds like a wonderful experience... by booyabazooka · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What it's like to ride a bike at the speed of light. I'd imagine, then, you would just sit down on the bike, and then get off, since to you, the trip would be instantaneous.

    1. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by cryptoz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's wrong...Time would pass normally for you. You would think at a slower speed (the same speed you're moving) so you wouldn't notice a difference. When you got off the bike, however, much more time would have passed for everyone else than you.

      All this is, of course, assuming Einstein was right (and I think some experiment somewhere proved these effects to be correct)

    2. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by deansfurniture5 · · Score: 1

      They have proven that space and time are one--I'm having trouble finding a source on that at the moment, but I know they used highly sensitive clocks and put them in the space shuttle and showed that, since they are moving faster relative to earth, the time for them is slower.

    3. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by wahsapa · · Score: 1

      I remember this too. It also had something along the lines of satellites helping to prove the space-time thing too... didn't it?

    4. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by tyagiUK · · Score: 1

      Ssshhh already. Us geeks won't be able to use the "but I have no time for exercise in my busy work schedule" any more.

      --
      Contribute to the online videogame encyclopedia: GamerWiki
    5. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by MAdMaxOr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But the point is that while you are going the speed of light, while time appears normal to you, you will have traveled an infinite distance in that first instant of time in your reference frame.

      Which leads to the observation that you could never stop going the speed of light, because when you decide to hit the brakes X seconds later, you would have traveled an infinite distance. Where would you end up? (Never mind the problem of having to dissipate infinite energy)

    6. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Jerf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, at the speed of light... yes, things going at the speed of light experience nothing that can be called the progression of time.

      But matter can't travel that fast, only things without mass. So, there is the interesting question of what you have that you would call a "bike" or "you".

      Physics does not break at the speed of light, but intuitive physics is dead. Relativity is a strain on it at any high speed but just forget lightspeed.

      (As I always do when this topic comes up, if you want a crack at understanding this stuff for real, try Reflections on Relativity, free online.)

    7. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here's the problem you're running into: the Lorentz transformations can be described as matrix transformations on spacetime. However, if you try to look at what happens if you go *at* the speed of light, your matrix becomes singular. It's impossible to invert the transformation, and so it's meaningless to say what it looks like to travel at the speed of light. In fact, both time and space collapse and an observer "sees" the universe as having 2 space dimensions (perpendicular to direction of travel) and no time dimensions.

    8. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by vmfedor · · Score: 1
      I guess I don't quite understand why time and the speed of light are related. The speed of light is simply that... a speed. Why would traveling at the speed of light affect time for you, while traveling at 500 miles/km per hour wouldn't? And are you saying that, however incalculably small the measurement, a person moving faster than another person is affected by time differently?

      Just curious, because I don't know!

      --

      I like my women how I like my sugar.. granulated.

    9. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by DjReagan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, a person moving faster than another is affected by time differently. Time Dilation is one of the components of Einstein's theory of special relativity.

      --
      "When I grow up, I want to be a weirdo"
    10. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it does affect it, but just by a small factor. that factor is gamma: 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2), where v is your speed and c is the speed of light. only when v approaches c does gamma become noticable.

      at least, that's what they told me in physics last semester.

    11. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Naffer · · Score: 2, Informative

      t' = t / (sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2)))

      Where v is your speed, c is the speed of light, t is the time that passes for someone at rest, and t' is the time that passes for you. If you plug a number in for the speed, say 30 kilometers meters per second (67k miles per hour) You would still be talking about a very small difference. Driving in your car at 80 Miles per hour would make the bottom of the fraction about equal to 1, meaning you wouldn't see any detectable difference.

    12. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, my understanding is that time travels faster in orbit, because an object in orbit is in free-fall and objects on the Earth's surface are in a constant state of acceleration. An object in acceleration always has a slower clock than an object in an inertial state.

    13. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Stankatz · · Score: 0, Troll

      All this is, of course, assuming Einstein was right (and I think some experiment somewhere proved these effects to be correct)

      Of course he was right. He stole all his ideas from some of the greatest scientists of his time. He didn't include any references in his paper and pretended that he just came up with his ideas entirely on his own. To explain this irregularity, the media portray him as one the most intelligent people ever to have walked the earth. Einstein was a freud... I mean fraud. Oops, Freudian slip.

    14. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by RKBA · · Score: 1

      Or in other words, photons are everywhere at once (from their frame of reference)?

    15. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by booyabazooka · · Score: 1
      When you got off the bike, however, much more time would have passed for everyone else than you.

      That's exactly my point. If you were traveling AT the speed of light, the ratio of time passed around you to time passed on the bike becomes infinite. That's why, to quote Greene's Elegant Universe, "a photon never ages."

    16. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd imagine that the net effect, considering the solar system as the system in which this is happening, is about the same. Time for the orbiter would appear to be passing a bit more quickly, relative to us, that is.

    17. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the ideas may not have been original, but the brilliance came in his being able to synthesise a number of theories which basically destroyed the accepted model of how the universe works, and then break it down into terms simple enough for most reasonably educated people to be able to grasp at some level.

    18. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Velocity does have a time correlated effect, even at atmospheric speeds below mach.

      It's said that they set two atomic clocks to the same time and flew one around the world in a fighter plane while the other sat on the ground. Supposedly when it got back the time difference was a few millionths of a second or so.

      What is being said is that people at different velocities experience time differently.

    19. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by vmfedor · · Score: 1
      Ahh, yeah, duh. Your last sentence really did it for me. I was just being thickheaded, hahah.

      Thanks!

      --

      I like my women how I like my sugar.. granulated.

    20. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Close. Everywhere collapses into a point around them, such that the distance travelled is none. So, every time you turn on a light, you are causing distortions in the fabric of space/time. And you thought you're dad was just trying to save a couple cents on the electric bill by harping on you to turn the lights off when you weren't using them.

    21. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every physicist knows that relativity didn't appear in Einstein's brain out of nothing. The maths of Einstein's Special Relativity is essentially identical to work by earlier theoretical physicists on the structure of the ether. Einstein's stroke of genius was to recognise that there is no ether - that the same maths falls out of a pair of almost intuitive postulates.

      And of course Nexus magazine is hardly a reliable place to go for scientific commentary - this is a magazine that regularly endorses various free-energy and perpetual motion machines, not to mention alien invasion/abduction fantasies!

    22. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by corngrower · · Score: 2, Informative
      No, G.P. is correct. As you approach the speed of light, distances along the line of travel contract. At the speed of light, you're trip is instantaneous, but to you, you've not gone anywhere, even though to the guy standing still, you've travelled 50 light years distant (or event 6 billion light years, but then the observer on earth wouldn't be around any more, whould he?).

      The really interesting trips occur when you're travelling very near the speed of light, not at the speed of light.

      In summary: Moving yardsticks shrink in the direction of motion. Moving clocks run slow. At the speed of light, Clock stops, Distance across the universe is 0 (All stars compress into a plane )

    23. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by corngrower · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Oops, my mistake. That should also be moving metersticks that shrink in the direction of motion.

    24. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      see, this is the crazy thing with physics that normal people don't get. how can it be an infinite distance when light does not travel instantaneously? if it takes light 8 minutes to each earth from the sun, and you travel at the speed of light from the sun, then in 8 minutes you will have reached earth, not an infinite distance. and if light isn't instant, then why can't something go faster? if it takes 8 minutes, why can't it be done in 4?

    25. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how is the trip instantaneous? light takes a long time to get somewhere. if you've traveled 50 light years in distance it will take you 50 years at the speed of light by definition of a light year. how can it only be to the observer that it took 50 years ? surely if the light arives there instantly then any one looking will see it instantly as well, and the universe would be 1 big blinding light.

      physics is just bullshit by people who want money, but don't want to wear silly robes like priests :)

    26. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I have issues with Einstein's theories. While I agree they match what we see, I don't agree that's what's actually happening.

      It'd be like me saying that radios work because they have little people in them singing and playing instruments. They watch the knob from the inside and have a clock to tell what to play. That would explain the behavior, but it raises other problems. Now you might say "well we can open a radio and see what's in it". Gee thanks Cpt Obvious. Now make that radio the size of a quark and maybe you'll get what I mean. We can't look in it (at least yet), so all we have are theories. Give me a million more years of science and your theory will look sillier than my take on radios.

    27. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by WilburCobb · · Score: 1

      No, he is right. Although his time (the so called proper time) pass normally for him, space will face a contraction, so that in the limit of the speed of light, the space would have been contracted to zero. Therefore, he would spend no time to travel all the path.

      We can describe better the simulation not as a bike in the actual speed of light wich is approximately 300,000,000 m/s. What is really being simulated is a universe where the speed of light is small, and therefore it is easy to see relativistic effects (in this case, relativistic light aberration) at small, bicicle-like speeds.

    28. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by EllisDees · · Score: 1

      Time would pass normally for you, but for you any trip would seem instantaneous. It would literally take zero seconds your time to make any distance trip.

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
    29. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But matter can't travel that fast, only things without mass.

      light can travel that fast (hence the name) - light is made of photons ... and photons definitely have a mass ....

    30. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by corngrower · · Score: 2, Informative
      If you travel 50 light years distant at the speed of light, It takes 50 years with respect to a stationary observer. However, if you're the one doing the travelling, the trip is intantaneous, and also from your perspective, (while you're travelling), you've not travelled any distance. It would be like you've magically transferred from one place to another intantaneously. This is all because of the effects of relativity. However, practially speaking you cannot go AT the speed of light, you can only approach the speed of light. Even with this you could travel incredible distances in a lifetime, because the distances in your frame of reference would contract. There would be a long period of time (probably about 10-20 year) where you would be accelerating (at 1 or 2 G), and an equally long period of time while you were decellerating.

      From the travellers perspective, they see that because the distance has shrunk, they're able to travel between the two very distant points in a lifetime. From an observers perspective, the traveller is able to do this because his 'clocks' all run super slow.

    31. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for. Are you asking why the laws of physics accelerating past the speed of light? We don't know why, they just do. If you're asking what happens if you try to go past the speed of light, then others in this thread have described it: it requires infinite energy to reach the speed of light. When you're going near the speed of light, additional input of energy produces less and less additional increase in speed.

    32. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trip is instantaneous to someone traveling at the speed of light. (Well, you can't actually do that, but whatever.) It takes 50 years to the person who sees you traveling 50 light years at light speed. Time is relative.

    33. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, photons are massless particles. The modern usage of the term "mass" is that of "invariant mass" (of which "rest mass" is a special case, when applied to massive particles which can be at rest). A particle can travel at the speed of light if and only if its (invariant) mass is zero.

      It is possible to define an "effective mass" for a photon of E/c^2, but that's not the sort of mass that is important in deciding whether something can travel at the speed of light (which is one of many reasons why the use of that kind of mass is deprecated).

    34. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by melodraama · · Score: 1

      > No, photons are massless particles.

      Saying that something is massless, is same as saying it does not exist. Photons, however, exist, therefore they must have mass.

      Saying that photons do not have "rest mass" is just a fancy way to say that you cannot stop the light.

      Light has mass, but it cannot exist in other speeds than speed of light. When you slow or stop photon, you destroy it -- make it not exist or in other words -- make it have no mass.

    35. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying that something is massless, is same as saying it does not exist.

      No, sorry, there is no such law of physics. An object does not have to have mass to exist, only energy. Both photons and gluons are massless particles -- if you define "mass" to mean "invariant mass", which is what particle physicists do.

    36. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, light does not have "mass". Light is a combination of a verticle electeric wave and a horizontal magnetic wave. And remember, since no mass actually travels along the waves, light can not have mass.

    37. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by melodraama · · Score: 1

      > > Saying that something is massless, is same as saying it does not exist.

      > No, sorry, there is no such law of physics. An object does not have to have mass to exist, only energy.

      And since when is the energy not equivalent with mass?

    38. Re:Sounds like a wonderful experience... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      E=mc^2 is just the zero-momentum (rest frame) special case of a more general formula, E^2 = (mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2, where p is relativistic 3-momentum. When m=0, this reduces to the familiar E=pc relation for massless photons, for which energy and momentum are equivalent.

  7. Don't get it by Lingur · · Score: 0

    I don't get it... If you were travelling at the speed of light wouldn't you pass through an entire city in milliseconds? or nanoseconds even? How can you see the buildings?

    1. Re:Don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the buildings are moving at the speed of light too. Then it'd look just like any time...

    2. Re:Don't get it by Lingur · · Score: 0

      But then you would see the buildings as standing still. Which you don't in those videos.

    3. Re:Don't get it by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      Yeah yeah, the point is that these are simulations of the images that would be taken by a pinhole camera, apparently one with an extremely short exposure time.

    4. Re:Don't get it by The+boojum · · Score: 1

      The site mentioned that this was a simulation as though the speed of light were only 30km/h. That makes the time and distance scale reasonable enough to give you the sense of the relativistic distortion.

    5. Re:Don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh, why use all that crap when i can just use my own bike to travel faster than the speed of light

  8. The nerds have already seen by kernel_dan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Lightspeed is a simulator for velocities at c and below. Screenshots are available.

    --

    Illegal? Samir, This is America.
    1. Re:The nerds have already seen by britneys+9th+husband · · Score: 1

      Does anyone know of a simulator for velocities above c? I'd like to see someone do that.

      --
      Hear recorded Slashdot headlines on your phone! New service beta testing. Just call (248) 434-5508
    2. Re:The nerds have already seen by biglig2 · · Score: 1

      Well, since you can't go faster than c, it's kinda hard to simulate.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    3. Re:The nerds have already seen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if we went faster than c, you'd be the first to get the joke.

    4. Re:The nerds have already seen by CrazyDuke · · Score: 1

      If it where possible, I'd imagine the light waves would behave in much the same manner as a sonic boom-style shockwave, but with light instead. In other words a high energy electro-magnetic pulse that would seem to originate from a point, I'd guess.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    5. Re:The nerds have already seen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you are not too far off. If you take a charge particle and get it moving fast, the electric field gets squished due to length contraction. It can be felt further out stronger. At the speed of light, it becomes the delta function: zero width and infinite amplitude. If you take a hydrogen atom and somehow accelerate it to light speed, the electron generates a field and the proton generates an equally strong (but opposite polarity) field. It would be an interesting shockwave.

      Faster than the speed of light? You just reverse charge and go slower than the speed of light (a plus charge moving backwards in time looks like a minus charge moving forwards in time). Since you have no way of determining that your charge was reversed vs. the rest of the universe, it is consistent for both the faster than light speed traveller and the outside observer.

      Of course, there's more than one way to keep the model consistent at that point, but most are still non-interesting (and not very meaningful without the possibility of experimental verification).

      Stupid infinite energy problems.

    6. Re:The nerds have already seen by anagama · · Score: 1

      Simulation is easy (in the "faking it sense of course"). Just watch Star Trek.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    7. Re:The nerds have already seen by bobgoatcheese · · Score: 1

      I happen to know of a very good one.

      --
      How's my typing? Call 1-800-eta-shut
    8. Re:The nerds have already seen by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 1

      Easy, just take the same video and play it backwards.

      --

      kurzweil_freak

      5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

      Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

    9. Re:The nerds have already seen by d474 · · Score: 1
      "Does anyone know of a simulator for velocities above c? I'd like to see someone do that."
      Actually, there is an excellent simulation for just that scenario. What happens is that everything moving past you turns plaid. It's called Ludicrous Speed. Whatever you do, do NOT push this button.
      --
      Authority questions you. Return the favor.
    10. Re:The nerds have already seen by biglig2 · · Score: 1

      I thought simulation didn't have a faking it sense, am I being a Grammar Nazi?

      Chambers sort of agrees with me, or does it?

      simulate verb (simulated, simulating) 1 to convincingly recreate (a set of conditions or a real-life event), especially for the purposes of training. 2 to assume a false appearance of someone or something. 3 to pretend to have, do or feel She simulated anger.
      simulated adj not genuine; imitation simulated leather.
      simulation noun 1 simulating; something that is simulated. 2 any model of a system or process computer traffic simulation program.
      ETYMOLOGY: 17c: from Latin simulare.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    11. Re:The nerds have already seen by Threni · · Score: 1

      > HOLY SHIT!!! The housing bubble is about to pop!!! LOOK OUT BELOW!!! JUST LIKE
      > THE NASDAQ IN 2000!!!

      The Nasdaq crashed because enough investors discovered that there were loads of internet-related companies with laughable business models. Whereas in the housing market there are lots of people who want to buy a house, but a limited amount of space in which to build houses. Perhaps house price increases will slow down or even reverse for a short time, but it'll pick up again soon enough. Don't worry about it.

    12. Re:The nerds have already seen by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      And wasn't something like this done in the '70s? I remember seeing a scientific american article about that... a -while- ago. (primitive computer line drawings and everything).

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    13. Re:The nerds have already seen by D-Cypell · · Score: 3, Informative

      A common misconception.

      You cannot accelerate a mass > 0 beyond c.

      Relativity does not prohibit travelling FTL, it just prohibits getting there from a speed < c. A subtle, but important distinction.

    14. Re:The nerds have already seen by Sir+dies+alot · · Score: 1

      Hrrm... you might want to re-check that, unless by you, you are implying the GP. Nowhere in Einstein's theories (or anyone else's since Einstein, IIRC) does it state that nothing can move faster than the speed of light. The theory is that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. To quote K-PAX: "He said nothing of things moving the speed of light or faster." While I personally can not say I remember anyone detecting any tachyon particles, in theory they can exist.

      --
      The stupidity of your average American is just about the same as the average European, we simply show it off better.
    15. Re:The nerds have already seen by anagama · · Score: 1

      I think the dictionary reference cleary shows "faking it" is part of the meaning of simulation. "to assume a false appearance of someone or something .... pretend to have, do, or feel ... not genuine". A simulation is merely something that is not the actual thing -- it can be a representation of something real, or it can try to deceive you by convincing you its real, when in fact it isn't. "Faking It".

      That said, what the heck is "imitation simulated leather" ... I always prefer REAL simulated leather over fake faked leather!

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    16. Re:The nerds have already seen by Threni · · Score: 1

      It's just capitalism. People buy and sell stuff they've not seen all the time. Why should it be any different with regard to property? You're saying capitalism is bad now? Isn't that considered sinful in America?

    17. Re:The nerds have already seen by MarkusH · · Score: 1

      Does that mean you can accelerate a mass less than 0 beyond C? Hmmm.... So all we need to do is convert the object into negative mass, and then we can travel to the stars! Brilliant! Now where did I put that negative mass converter...

    18. Re:The nerds have already seen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Particles which travel faster than light, tachyons, have imaginary mass, not negative mass. This follows from the relation,

      E^2 = (mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2

      Tardyons (slower than light particles) are ones for which the energy term outweighs the momentum term; this implies (mc^2)^2>0 and therefore m>0. Luxons (particles that travel at light speed, like photons) are ones for which the energy and momentum terms are equal, E=pc; this implies m=0. Tachyons are ones for which the momentum outweighs the energy term; this implies (mc^2)^20 and therefore m imaginary.

    19. Re:The nerds have already seen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That should be (mc^2)^2<0.

  9. Re:Only one problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Gravity is also a theory.

  10. Apply Theory of Relativity to the Slashdot Effect by tyagiUK · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wonder what a website (and associated server/network tin) looks like when it's Slashdotted at the speed of light?

    --
    Contribute to the online videogame encyclopedia: GamerWiki
  11. What? by Devar · · Score: 2, Funny

    Reduce the speed of light to 30 kilometres per hour! Then you too can ride at the speed of light!! Easier if you have a motor bike.

    --
    It's a Bagel.
    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had my GSX-R 1000 up to 300 km/hr (186 mph), does that count for anything? Of course I did not feel to comfortable above ~220 km/hr so I'll never get any closer to c then that again, well at least on two wheels.

    2. Re:What? by MAdMaxOr · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ok, you try riding your bike through a Bose-Einstein condensate.

    3. Re:What? by notanatheist · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't know much about Lance Armstrong. The man can do 30km/h up a freakin' hill!! I can sprint over 50km/h.

    4. Re:What? by Gopal.V · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Slow Light is around 1.6 Kms per hour

    5. Re:What? by jcuervo · · Score: 1
      Reduce the speed of light to 30 kilometres per hour! Then you too can ride at the speed of light!! Easier if you have a motor bike.
      Unless it's a Vespa. I don't care what you lower the speed of light to, you're not hitting it on a hairdryer with wheels.
      --
      Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
    6. Re:What? by dylan_- · · Score: 1
      I can sprint over 50km/h.
      You can run the 100m sprint in less than 7.2 seconds?! Wow...
      --
      Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
  12. Re:Only one problem... by sound+vision · · Score: 1

    Evolution is also a theory. Let the flames begin.

  13. This has been done before by krumpet · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have seem something similar to this before. Check out:

    http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Searle/

    and

    http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Savage/TEE/

    1. Re:This has been done before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have seem something similar to this before.

      Yeah, man, back in the 60's when Cool Cat Singo passed me some LSD to slip away with.

    2. Re:This has been done before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you look at the guy's references you'll see papers that are much older. He even has some very interesting source code.

      However he doesn't have general relativity effects which the german guys have. These are considerably harder to achieve. I wish they had a paper describing the algorithm somewhere.

      Basically he's raytracing and taking into account the special relativity effects that go on. You don't need to simulate going at very hight speeds, it's all in the lorentz factor. I'm surprised nobody has shown an experiment where gamma = 1 or above!

  14. No way. by diesel66 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Look, I've been through Tübingen at the speed of light, and it doesn't look anything like that!

    --



    eleven plus two / twelve plus one
    1. Re:No way. by mnmn · · Score: 2, Funny

      Try harder drinks at the pub next time. You'll see it.

      --
      "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    2. Re:No way. by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 1

      Yes, but a slightly different view. The last time I traveled by this method, the only thing I recall is a spectacular view of the ground.

      However, traveling by this method is valid, since it does make time disappear.

    3. Re:No way. by Insipid+Trunculance · · Score: 1

      no , that was the time you had a bit too much and travelled in the back of a Police van.

      --
      Wanted : A Signature.
  15. MOD PARENT IGNORANT by rdwald · · Score: 2, Informative

    All of science is a "theory." Do you think that's air you're breathing now? Or are you a brain in a jar? My theory says the former, but it could be completely and utterly wrong.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT IGNORANT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He must come from Kansas.

    2. Re:MOD PARENT IGNORANT by Eric119 · · Score: 1

      Is the idea we're just brains in jars scientifically falsifiable? I don't think so, anyway.

  16. Not that new.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The idea, while cool, is not that new (although doing it interactively might be). There's always the Relativistic Raytracer (more movies), which has been available since 1997.

    1. Re:Not that new.. by sixpaw · · Score: 1

      I think doing it interactively is new -- and quite a feat; it's very difficult to do this correctly with traditional polygon rasterization algorithms, I suspect they may be tesselating their meshes very finely and running a sort of highly-specialized vertex shader to transform them. Doing it non-interactively, though, is even older than you suggest -- a group at CMU headed by Dr. Ping-Kang Hsiung was doing this back in 1990. (Caveat: I was one of his assistants. :-) They produced a couple of videos for NHK and something for CNN's weekly science magazine, but unfortunately I don't think any of them are available online.

    2. Re:Not that new.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember in high school reading their paper in a conference proceedings circa 1992 or so. I suggested it to a friend a science project. He never did it, though.

  17. videos by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    All this does is attempt to simulate the visual distortion that one would perceive when traveling that fast. The videos look like you could be going 100 mph or whatever in terms of speed, but the distortion of the buildings seems to be what they're trying to get across here. The idea that you could have a long enough street lined with similar enough buildings to even perceive this distortion is beyond fantastical, so there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of point to this other than illustrating the notion that there is visual distortion. But I imagine what you would actually see would be much more of a blur.

    1. Re:videos by Twinbee · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think what that video shows is what you see if you travelled at near the speed of light, and recorded the whole thing with a high speed camera, and then played the recording back.

      Either that or the buildings and roads are so many thousands of times bigger than real life, in which case you would again see what the video shows.

      Alternatively, you could set the speed of light very slow, and you would see the same effect even if you travelled at only 100mph and with normal sized buildings and roads.

      I only wish they did the anim at 60fps instead of 30 frames per second. It'd look even nicer. "Oooh movies are at 30fps, so I must copy them".

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    2. Re:videos by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      I can't remember that much about my physics classes, but I think there is more to it than just the visual distortion simulated here. There would also be shifts in colour etc etc.

    3. Re:videos by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      A shift in color is a visual distortion. More to the point, how do you represent a shift in color using made up images of arbitrary colors? Do we know what color the buildings are supposed to be before watching the changes?

    4. Re:videos by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      Watch this video, it's a much more accurate representation. It shows replays the journey a number of times, each time adding a new mathmatical distortion until you get exactly what you would see if travelling close to the speed of light.
      http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Searle/

  18. Black hole simulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has been done before.

    And, unfortunately, the simulations of the view while falling into a black hole are really, really wrong.

  19. Re:Only one problem... by Lifewish · · Score: 2, Funny

    And most of the alternatives are conjectures.

    Scientists use words like chess masters use pawns; saying something's "just a theory" tends to have roughly the same effect on their mental state as kicking the board over.

    --
    For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
  20. Length contraction? by Futonchild · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I always understood that distances lying on lines parallel to your path (e.g. the length of a passing storefront) got shorter as you approached c. In the video it looks like the storefronts remain a constant length, or maybe even expand, as the speed increases. Am I missing something?

    1. Re:Length contraction? by tylersoze · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They're simulating the *visual* effect which is much different than just the Lorentz transformation because of the differing light travel times from various parts of the object to your eyes. For example, a body actually appears *rotated* instead of just Lorentz contracted.

    2. Re:Length contraction? by Futonchild · · Score: 1

      Just to clarify, do you mean: (a) The storefronts would not appear to be shorter as you go faster, though they would appear to be rotated, or (b) The storefronts would appear to be shorter as well as appearing to be rotated ?

    3. Re:Length contraction? by 6800 · · Score: 1
      If I correctly recall, special relativity and the
      Lorenz contraction say that the observer would
      acutually contract.


      So, I suppose, because they dropped the speed of
      light to 30 kmh, the simulation is valid as it
      only
      has to deal with the relative position of the camera
      to the photons, providing you ignore doppler.


      If they were to simulate the camera moving at 95%
      of c, the camera would actually contract, along
      with all rulers an observer moving with the
      camera might use to measure.


      Does this sound correct? If so how does this
      physical contraction change the ray tracing of
      the simulation?

    4. Re:Length contraction? by Futonchild · · Score: 1

      All this sounds correct to me, though I don't know what "ray tracing" is. In any event, as several posters have noted, the whole idea of accurately representing what it would look like to travel at light speed is fraught with conceptual difficulties.

    5. Re:Length contraction? by 6800 · · Score: 1

      By Ray tracing, I mean tracing the path of a 'light ray'. I am asking how a physical contraction of the camera would alter the explanation on the web site. I am not sure if the contraction is only in the direction of movement. If so, it would seem to not counteract the distortions of the simulation but might exacerbate them. If, on the other hand, the physical contractions are on all axis, then it seems to me, the distortions due to the shorter time for a photon to travel from the pen hole to the film plane would be offset by the shrinking of the film plane itself.

    6. Re:Length contraction? by Futonchild · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure things only contract along the axis of motion. At least in STR. About cameras I have no idea.

    7. Re:Length contraction? by tylersoze · · Score: 1

      As I understand it, just rotated. Here's a paper on the subject: http://web.mit.edu/8.20/iap05/weisskopf.pdf

    8. Re:Length contraction? by thewils · · Score: 1

      My understanding (IANAP) also is that length tends to zero as velocity approaches c. Does this not mean that _at_ velocity c length is equal to zero? Wouldn't this mean that as far as a photon is concerned, crossing vast interstellar distances would take _no_ time at all. In fact, time is not a concept that a photon would be "aware" of. Emission from one atom and absorption into another take place simultaneously no matter what the distance is. This is my "ask a physicist" question for today.

      --
      Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
  21. How long? by OverflowingBitBucket · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those curved buildings are kinda cool, but how long would those buildings even be in your field of vision if you were blasting past them at the speed of light? I don't think your brain would get a chance to process that kind of detail before it blurred into the image from the next microsecond, which would probably be completely different. I'd say it'd all be a messy blur.

    Looking backwards would be kinda sweet though, if it didn't blind you immediately.

    1. Re:How long? by mnmn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blind you? The photons rate entering your eyes looking backward would be much less, so it'll be pretty dark. You wouldnt feel a thing if the velocity is constant.

      Looking forward.. now thats a different story.

      --
      "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    2. Re:How long? by OverflowingBitBucket · · Score: 1

      Blind you? The photons rate entering your eyes looking backward would be much less, so it'll be pretty dark. You wouldnt feel a thing if the velocity is constant.

      Looking forward.. now thats a different story.


      I was thinking at near but below light-speed, basically a very large number of sources in the distance having their light reach you all at roughly the same time. Like a sonic boom, but with light. In the last couple of minutes I've swung from agreeing with you to disagreeing, and retyped this comment quite a few times. Truth is I'm not an expert on the matter, not having traveled lightspeed, so it's all speculation on my part anyway.

    3. Re:How long? by pinopino · · Score: 1

      No. The whole point of relativity is that light travels THE SAME SPEED IN ALL FRAMES. If you have a steady state light source, things will become stretched, but nothing will darken due to 'slower photon rate'. What will happen is that there will be a doppler shift. If you are a human, eventually the things in front of you will be blueshifted out of the visible spectrum, and the back will be redshifted, so everything will go 'dark' (light non visible).

      There will never be a 'boom' because of this, though what you see might lead you to believe that some of the builiding s overlap. In answer to how fast the buildings would go by (in parent), I believe that the exhibit just sets the 'speed of light' to be a reasonable bike speed (same as rescaling the buildings to be very big), and then just using the same mathematics with the slower 'light' speed.

      --
      "What the masochist doesn't know can't hurt him."
    4. Re:How long? by Phleg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, light travels towards and away from you at light speed, no matter your speed. So the number of photons entering your pupils would be exactly the same.

      --
      No comment.
    5. Re:How long? by OverflowingBitBucket · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You make some interesting points, but I should point out a couple of things.

      If you are a human, eventually the things in front of you will be blueshifted out of the visible spectrum, and the back will be redshifted, so everything will go 'dark' (light non visible).

      The direction of the shift will depend which way you are facing. Also, bear in mind that although the human-visible spectrum will be shifted out of the human-visible range, depending on your direction, one side of the human-invisible spectrum will be shifted in. So it may not go dark at all, it could even get brighter, depending on how bright the human-invisible component is.

      There will never be a 'boom'

      Regarding the boom, bear in mind that we really haven't gotten anywhere near lightspeed, so we don't know. At one time it was theorised that it was quite impossible to break the sound barrier. It is not only possible but quite likely that our understanding of what happens near lightspeed is inaccurate. What I've said is just my hunch, no doubt what you said, yours as well.

    6. Re:How long? by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      We have seen the equivalent of a sonic boom in light.. sort of. The Cernekov (sp?) radiation.. when particles travel through a medium faster than lightspeed in that medium.

      I wouldn't say it's like. Not having gone close to lightspeed myself as far as I know, obviously I have no firsthand information, but the speed of light as a limit is nothing like the speed of sound in any way. Rather than saying "nothing travels faster than the speed of light".. it would be more accurate to say "In our universe, speeds faster than the speed of light do not exist and have no meaning".

    7. Re:How long? by the+pickle · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure you've just thoroughly confused relativity with Newtonian mechanics, but I don't have a strong enough grasp on relativity myself to give you a good reason why.

      Perhaps someone else can.

      p

    8. Re:How long? by OverflowingBitBucket · · Score: 1

      Here's hoping that the current theory is wrong or the rules can be stretched. I'm kinda hoping that interstellar exploration becomes a practical possibility one day, even if I'll never be around to see it myself. A speed limit would make such travel impractical.

    9. Re:How long? by dmaxwell · · Score: 1

      We're deep into the land of speculation and fantasy here but what the hell. Physics may well exist that allow practical interstellar travel. They simply won't involve accellerating past the speed of light. To attempt discussion of such physics would make me look like a Trekkie weenie so I'll quit while I'm ahead.

    10. Re:How long? by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      Hopefully we do find a way to zonk ourselves around our universe without being limited by conventional travel at lightspeed.. however... I think the modern physics are pretty well established, speeds faster than C simply do not exist, they have no definition in our universe. It's not that we simply can't go faster, it's that faster speeds have no meaning. At lightspeed, time stops, motion ceases to be a valid concept.

    11. Re:How long? by qbwiz · · Score: 1

      Would it?
      Imagine travelling from Earth to Alpha Centauri at .99c. It would take about 4 years, Earth time, and .57 years, your time. At .01c, it would take about 400 years Earth time and 400 years your time.
      In this second case you would be shading the Earth for 400 years, so you are absorbing the photons that the Earth would absorb for the next 400 (or so) years during the course of 400 of your years (assuming the photons coming parallel, but whatever).
      In the first case you would be shading the earth for 4 years, but your eyes must take in all the photons that would arrive during at the Earth during those 4 years in .57 of your years .
      The photon influx rate must be (4/.57) 7.1 times as great as for the longer trip. What you are looking at must be 7.1 times brighter.
      Why is this wrong?

      --
      Ewige Blumenkraft.
    12. Re:How long? by sam_da_mann · · Score: 1

      But the light in front of you would be blue-shifted, and so the total power reaching you would increase.

    13. Re:How long? by StikyPad · · Score: 3, Funny

      Those curved buildings are kinda cool, but how long would those buildings even be in your field of vision if you were blasting past them at the speed of light?

      First of all, it's near lightspeed.

      More importantly, they simulated light moving at 30km/h rather than 300km/s. Fortunately this had no effect on the real speed of light, so you're free to continue driving at highway speeds. Good thing too, because it would add a whole new dimension to traffic violations.

      "Your honor, I literally couldn't see him until after we collided."

      "$500 fine for exceeding the speed of light."

      "Your honor, I didn't realize.. I thought I was just drunk!"

    14. Re:How long? by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Why is this wrong?

      Relativity.

    15. Re:How long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You're right. The rate at which you receive photons goes up as gamma, and the power received goes up as gamma^2 (since the photon energy goes up as gamma too). This is apparent dimensionally: rate of photon reception has units of 1/time, and time gets contracted by time -> time/gamma, so photon reception rate transforms like 1/(time/gamma) = gamma * 1/time, so is multiplied by gamma. Power has units of energy/time, which transforms (gamma energy)/(time/gamma) = gamma^2 energy/time.

    16. Re:How long? by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      I've also wondered that. Also, wouldn't time slow down for -you- so, not only are you moving fast, but your perception of time is also quite slow... (making you think you're at infinite velocity, and won't be able to -see- anything?)

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    17. Re:How long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything else appears slow to you too: it's symmetric, by the relativity principle. (If you're traveling at X% of c with respect to another body, they're traveling at X% of c with respect to you.)

    18. Re:How long? by Vellmont · · Score: 1


      Regarding the boom, bear in mind that we really haven't gotten anywhere near lightspeed, so we don't know.

      A person has never gotten anywhere near lightspeed, but we accelerate subatomic particles VERY near lightspeed every single day in particle accelerators. Einsteins theories have been very well tested, and they all hold up so far.

      It is not only possible but quite likely that our understanding of what happens near lightspeed is inaccurate.

      Based upon what evidence? None other than unbacked up speculation that "we just don't know". We do know what happens with a high degree of accuracy. Of course it's _always_ possible there's something going on we don't understand. But that's not a good enough reason to doubt the existing theories are accurate.

      --
      AccountKiller
    19. Re:How long? by OverflowingBitBucket · · Score: 1

      A person has never gotten anywhere near lightspeed, but we accelerate subatomic particles VERY near lightspeed every single day in particle accelerators. Einsteins theories have been very well tested, and they all hold up so far.

      A fantastic research area, with great research being done by all involved. I would argue that our knowledge in the area of near-lightspeed travel is hideously incomplete though. Heck, our knowledge in the realm of subatomic particles is hardly complete either.

      Based upon what evidence? None other than unbacked up speculation that "we just don't know". We do know what happens with a high degree of accuracy. Of course it's _always_ possible there's something going on we don't understand. But that's not a good enough reason to doubt the existing theories are accurate.

      Well, I can hardly disprove the current state of theory as the body of knowledge is still somewhat small, a similar reason to why you can't conclusively prove the current theory. Thus it is going to be very hard to back up my feelings on the issue. This is akin to you asking me to disprove a particular religious theory; the burden is on you to prove your claims, not me to disprove them. In this case though there is supporting evidence to suggest the theory is quite accurate in the realms of knowledge we have tested thus far. But not nearly enough, that is my doubt; I feel we've barely scratched the surface on this issue. Also note that I state I believe the current theory will turn out to be inaccurate, but I'm not flat-out dismissing it entirely, that would be the realm of fools. An hideously incomplete understanding of an area of knowledge is a perfectly acceptable reason to express doubt about existing theories. As we gain more and more knowledge in the area the current theory will be revised and improved. This has happened countless times throughout the history of science and it would be naive to think that our current state of knowledge is perfect. I presume and hope you aren't suggesting this. Likewise there have been people who have criticised others for questioning the current state of knowledge, and from time to time such criticism has been shown to be wrong.

      Looking back over my words, using "inaccurate" may have been a poor choice. Perhaps I should have used "hideously incomplete", as that would have been easier to defend if I was called on it. Anyway, this is getting somewhat offtopic, so I'll self-mod by dropping the karma bonus.

  22. Random by Monkeman · · Score: 0

    I was just thinking, light waves might not cause much of a fuss at the speed of light, but what would happen if, say, an elephant moved at the speed of light? I kinda imagine the videos of buildings and such being toppled near atomic bombs, except exponentially stronger.

  23. oblig. Red Dwarf! by Johnny+Mnobflaps · · Score: 5, Funny
    HOLLY: Look, we're travelling faster than the speed of light. That means, by the time we see something, we've already passed through it. Even with an IQ of 6000, it's still brown trousers time.

    or maybe that's brown bike shorts.

    eww.

    1. Re:oblig. Red Dwarf! by dtungsten · · Score: 1

      Well, in the vein of funny quotes indirectly related to the science at hand, here's one from UHF:

      "George, you know I was wondering, like if you were traveling through outer space, I mean like you're going real fast, like the speed of light, you know... hoooohhhhh... and all of a sudden you started screaming... aaaahhhhh aaaaahhhhh... Do you think your brain would blow up?"

    2. Re:oblig. Red Dwarf! by dotwaffle · · Score: 1

      But that quote doesn't make sense. Sure, you theoretically would not be able to see something until you've passed it, but that's ignoring the fact that the light has already been emitted. If anything, you would see exactly the same as if you were standing still - negating brain activity of course. Think about it, what you are seeing on your screen is what happened a few picoseconds ago - if you move closer to it, you're seeing things sooner, and you saw the update faster while you moved closer, but you won't lose sight of it, even if you're travelling at light speed!

      Also, if you WERE travelling faster than light, it's more likely that in fact the planet you were hurtling towards wouldn't see you until you hit them, then they would see you retreating backwards at a very fast speed - the stories are backwards - the standing still observer sees things backwards - you would see everything speeded up (negating dilation)

    3. Re:oblig. Red Dwarf! by jandrese · · Score: 1

      It's best not to think about the Science of Red Dwarf. I saw one guy try to put up a website with all of the Science gaffs and continuity holes in Red Dwarf and I think his brain exploded.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  24. Re:Only one problem... by no-one-important · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is quite a bit of very convencing physical evidence for both special and general relativity. Here's the first google item returned, but there's lots more out there to read. http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/S R/experiments.html

  25. Anyone got an idea what's going on here? by p3d0 · · Score: 1

    I've heard that when you're travelling near lightspeed, things behind you (say, 120 degrees from the forward direction) appear to be in front of you. Can anyone give the Relativity for Dummies version of why this happens?

    --
    Patrick Doyle
    I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
    1. Re:Anyone got an idea what's going on here? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's in the this explanation. There's a diagram at the bottom which explains it much better than I can in words.

    2. Re:Anyone got an idea what's going on here? by mnmn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sure.

      See light travels at the speed of light. You cant travel faster, or even AT the speed of light.

      But if youre zipping by an object that emits light, and its light doesnt travel in the same direction as you, its speed component in that direction is also slower than the speed of light, and you can catch up and see the object after you're past it.

      Lets try that again.

      Imagine youre on a bike, zipping past a lamppost. The light the lamppost emits travels in all directions. Now take the photos that are emitted in the same direction youre going, at the same time that youre just crossing the lamppost... now youre travelling parallel to that photon, although it beats you in speed.

      However, if the lamppost was say 10m away from you when you zipped past, the photon you'd see is the photon the lamp emits not in the same direction youre travelling, but slightly towards you. If youre travelling north, the photon is travelling northwest, towards you. After youve crossed the lamppost, some distance later, the photon reaches you, because it had to travel a bigger distance, going in your travel direction (north) as well as towards you (west), and we all know the hypotenuse is longer than the base or height.If you travelled faster than the photon's north speed component, you'll see greater than 180 degrees around you... but never 360.

      --
      "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    3. Re:Anyone got an idea what's going on here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still don't get it.

    4. Re:Anyone got an idea what's going on here? by OzRoy · · Score: 1

      This is the best example I can remember being told to explain it.

      Think about when you are travelling in a car. Outside it is raining. There is no wind and the rain is falling straight down. As you travel through the rain you look out the window, the rain appears to be falling in a diagonal direction.

      Exactly the same things is happening here. The light is the rain things behind you start to move forward and appear in your field of view.

    5. Re:Anyone got an idea what's going on here? by KingofSpades · · Score: 1

      The animation at the end of this page explains it visually.

    6. Re:Anyone got an idea what's going on here? by naddington · · Score: 1
      But if youre zipping by an object that emits light, and its light doesnt travel in the same direction as you, its speed component in that direction is also slower than the speed of light, and you can catch up and see the object after you're past it.
      No, the light will still appear to you to be going at the speed of light. This is the whole basis of special relativity: light goes at the speed of light relative to you no matter how fast you're going.
  26. Re:Caution: Chinese Weaponization of Space by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We must proceed with caution by ceasing these speed-of-light simulations. The Chinese would surely use them to advance their space-weaponization program.

    Why does this troll keep showing up? The Chinese don't have the resources to compete with the US. They've attempted manned space travel several times (even outright copying the Dynasoar design) and every time have had to cut it because of the cost. For now, I wouldn't worry too much about the Chinese one-upping the US on their own technology. Start worrying when they launch an Orion (not bloody likely).

    Note that the Chinese space program is completely under the auspices of the Chinese department of war. By contrast, in the USA, NASA is an entirely civilian effort.

    This is a GOOD thing. Remember what happened when the space program was under the United States department of war? (Specifically the Air Force?) That's right, some good engineering was done, but we didn't GET anywhere. It wasn't until NASA was formed that the US actually got into the race.

  27. Apples and oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    G Force is a quality of excelloration not speed. If you could excellorate at half a G you'd eventually achieve the speed of light and feel very little excelloration. There are real problems like the mass and the fact even tiny objects can strike with the force of an atomic blast. Achieving light speed is a kind of sucker bet. As you near the speed of light the energy required to continue to excellorate increases. No source of energy known can overcome it's own mass to reach the speed of light. There was a proposal to build an enitre ship out of bags of hydrogen ice so the mass would be reduced as you excellorated and there'd be little wasted mass. Even then I think it was unlikely to hit better than half the speed of light. Antimatter is a good option but still couldn't overcome the mass energy issue. In normal space it's unlikely that speed of light will ever be achieved let alone passed.

    1. Re:Apples and oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is rated interesting not because of the topic material, but because it is really interesting that someone managed to misspell "accelerate" consistently throughout what looks to be an otherwise informed post. Amazing.

    2. Re:Apples and oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see... Submit button. Preview button. I can't seem to find slashdot's spell check button.

    3. Re:Apples and oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds a little nucular to me.
      Interestingly though, you're going to find excelloration being used if you google for it, and an explanation of nucular on wikipedia.
      Guess english is defective from design since you have to put on safeguards to keep it from degenerating; no wonder why latin is still the standard in some areas.

  28. I Have Seen This by ArchAngel21x · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is what I see when I sprint to an all you can eat buffet after someone else has offered to pay. I have been called many things, but late for dinner is not one of them.

  29. Light speed? by dj245 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I prefer Ludicrous speed!

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:Light speed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah! I'll smoke past you as I burn a path of plaid throughout the galaxy!

  30. Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by CrowScape · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wouldn't the blueshift when traveling at such speeds push everything out the visible spectrum? So you wouldn't actually see anything, you'd just get a nasty dose of Gamma waves... or worse?

    --
    common sense: noun
    What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
    1. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See: your sig.

    2. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by CrowScape · · Score: 1

      This would be why I'm asking, instead of stating it as fact. I really want to know the answer here, and an explanation for why not.

      --
      common sense: noun
      What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
    3. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by Asterixian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At forward viewing angles, yes, the images would be blue-shifted, but this doesn't mean everything goes dark. Visible becomes UV, and infrared becomes visible. But this is angle-dependent. Light arriving from behind you is actually red-shifted.

      And yes, pushing several hundred watts per square meter of visible light into the UV range would result in a terrible sunburn.

    4. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by yoyhed · · Score: 1

      I read that as "Wouldn't the bullshit when traveling at such speeds" ... Maybe the 8 hours of San Andreas today were too much. Bedtime.

      --
      WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
    5. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by Roddd · · Score: 1

      There probably wouldn't be light from behind you if you going as fast as light already. You would probably see a still image of whatever was behind you at the time you went to light speed.

    6. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like in Tau Zero, a book I read, where they had to have a EM interperter because everything was so blueshifted they couldn't "see" anything

    7. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by sznupi · · Score: 1

      But you can't travel at lightspeed - only just below it.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    8. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by Tiny+Elvis · · Score: 1

      No, light still hits you from behind at light speed. This is what relativity is all about, and why it is hard to get your brain around it.

    9. Re:Uh, what about the Dopler effect? by sznupi · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't. Simply because the situation in parent post - travelling at light speed - is impossible. So it's pointles arguing at what speed light hits you from behind while you travel at light speed at light speed (of course when you travel just a bit slover than light, what you've sid is true)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  31. Traffic Lights.. by medgooroo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if, ignoring science and all that hoohah stuff, you could ride a bike at the speed of light around the place, would there be any need for traffic regulation or do collisions just become so hideously unlikely that it doesnt matter? /ot

    --
    Brain(s): 0.0% user, 1.3% system, 0.1% nice, 98.6% idle
    1. Re:Traffic Lights.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think so, if everyone travels at the speed of light there is almost definitely a fair risk of running into someone on an intersection. If on the other hand Grandma doesn't want to travel at the speed of light, if she is on an intersection which you will pass through on your journey you will almost certainly run into her and because of the energy which would be released in the impact the world would probably cease to exist soon after...

    2. Re:Traffic Lights.. by jcuervo · · Score: 1
      If on the other hand Grandma doesn't want to travel at the speed of light, if she is on an intersection which you will pass through on your journey you will almost certainly run into her and because of the energy which would be released in the impact the world would probably cease to exist soon after...
      Ah, an incredible release of energy in the form of Gramma waves. Hope she's wearing her helmet.
      --
      Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
  32. Tubingen? by MrAndrews · · Score: 3, Funny

    I showed my wife the videos cause they were cool, but she got all misty-eyed about seeing Tubingen again, so I'm in for a long night of hearing about how much fun she had at university there. Sigh. Why can't more people appreciate the value of astrophysics for astrophysics' sake?

    1. Re:Tubingen? by MrAndrews · · Score: 1

      Vital follow-up: towards the end of the "round trip" video, the world warps all around upside down and twists in mind-bending ways... she claims that's how it looked to her when she was there, too. So either she was traveling at the speed of light, or German beer is better than I thought.

  33. Tübingen project got the colors wrong by Bubblehead · · Score: 4, Informative

    Very cool project - the screenshots posted by the parent comment show nicely that the Tübingen Project forgot to adjust the colors - due to the Doppler effect, colors change dramatically.

    --
    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    1. Re:Tübingen project got the colors wrong by sixpaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I doubt it was a matter of forgetting; it's much more likely that they decided including the frequency shift would detract from the simulation. Visible light covers a comparatively narrow spectrum, from 700 to 400nm, and at the velocities they're covering any visible-light emissions would have shifted completely out of that band; at a fairly modest velocity like v=.8c, the doppler effect already produces a frequency shift of 3x, carrying a 400nm wavelength all the way up to 1200nm. I put together a good chunk of the doppler-shift portion of Dr. Ping-Kang Hsiung's simulation of these visual effects back in the early 90s (though I'm not among that paper's authors), and getting it to look interesting was far and away the most difficult part of the simulation.

    2. Re:Tübingen project got the colors wrong by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the shift would occour across the entire spectrum. Assuming there is something in the >400nm range, it'd shifted into visible, no?

      Of course, far blue carries less information than far red.

      Still, it'd be cool to see the effect of ultraviolet being shifted through the visible spectrum.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    3. Re:Tübingen project got the colors wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They got the optical doppler effect. I've seen it and screenshots were in a big german newspaper in the science section (on sunday, i believe) AND I HAVE SEEN IT IN REAL LIFE because the prof from tübingen showed this in münster in december 2004 and i was there (and very impressed).

  34. No blueshift by Vilim · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They are missing the blueshift you would encounter at that speed. However I guess they couldn't be accurate because wouldn't the frequency would shift to far above the ultraviolet quite quickly?

    --
    History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it - Sir Winston Churchill
    1. Re:No blueshift by Idarubicin · · Score: 1
      However I guess they couldn't be accurate because wouldn't the frequency would shift to far above the ultraviolet quite quickly?

      Yep--although that could be pretty cool, too. If we set aside the rapid blinding due to exposure to intense ultraviolet (and x-rays, and gammas, as you get to higher velocities) the view would be very interesting. The visible light portion of the spectrum would still be just fine off to the sides. There would be a ring of "normal" view perpendicular to the direction of your motion, shading to the blue in front and to the red behind.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    2. Re:No blueshift by iabervon · · Score: 1

      Actually, you wouldn't be substantially damaged by ultraviolet radiation in this simulation; it simulates lowering the speed of light, which means that radiation of a given wavelength has less energy by a factor of 22 million, assuming that it colors things based on wavelength, which is reasonable for most sources of colored light; although radiation from state transitions would have the same energy and frequency, so the sun would be mostly invisible (gamma-ray wavelength) and TV transmitters would glow visibly.

    3. Re:No blueshift by roseblood · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, that might not be true. Travel at close to C, and look in the direction you came from. No blue shift. Big time RED shift. It's all a matter of perspective.

      --
      There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    4. Re:No blueshift by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      They are missing the blueshift you would encounter at that speed.

      Not to mention the "bursting into flame and vaporizing in an instant, taking the street with you" part.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  35. question? by MistabewM · · Score: 1

    When traveling at the speed of light, would you experience time subjectivly so it would feel as if minutes had passed in seconds? Would you not need some sort of theoretic device / field, that would allow you to stay together and keep your molocules from travelling at different speeds?

    --
    "A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.'" - DNA
    1. Re:question? by datafr0g · · Score: 1

      I'm not quite sure, but I believe you would encounter some serious mass problems not to mention some pretty heavy windburn.

      Mass increases exponetially for an object that is increasingly approaching light speed... to travel at lightspeed that object would have to have infinite (or probably "undefined" would be a better word) mass.
      Therefore (or, as far as I can tell) in order to travel at lightspeed, you'd need to have a resting mass of zero.

      For the knowledgeable - if I'm wrong, please let me know why! I dig learning about this stuff!

      --
      "Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
    2. Re:question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right. The only objects which can (indeed, must) travel at light speed are massless (e.g., photons).

  36. Re:Apply Theory of Relativity to the Slashdot Effe by edbulldog · · Score: 1
  37. Mr. Tompkins in Wonderland by dpbsmith · · Score: 3, Informative

    There should, I think, have been at least a nod given to George Gamow whose 1947 book, "Mr. Tompkins in Wonderland," attempted to explain relativity and quantum mechanics by putting Mr. Tompkins into situations like this. If I remember correctly, one of the episodes literally did involve his riding a bicycle in a Wonderland in which c was something like twenty miles an hour.

    1. Re:Mr. Tompkins in Wonderland by TheShadowzero · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Hmm, but isn't the speed of light c^2? whats with all this c stuff?

      --
      If history repeats itself, why can't we study the future?
    2. Re:Mr. Tompkins in Wonderland by TheShadowzero · · Score: 0

      This wasn't flamebait, I just wondered why everyone was talking about c when i thought c^2 was the speed of light... *cries*

      --
      If history repeats itself, why can't we study the future?
    3. Re:Mr. Tompkins in Wonderland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Score: -1 Dumbass wasn't an option, sorry.

      (now that's Flamebait! Time to hit that anonymous checkbox)

    4. Re:Mr. Tompkins in Wonderland by illuminatedwax · · Score: 2, Informative

      Check out the site. They did. It's in the main site on the "wheels" section. The wheels are freakin cool too.

      --
      Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
  38. You Idiots by Gogogoch · · Score: 1

    To all of you saying "but wouldnt the journey be through in a nanosecond, and your brain couldnt process it in time". THINK! There are two possible explanations:

    1. It is all an experiment in rendering the type of optical distortion created by near light speed for the purposes of imagining travel at that speed, and for the sheer hell of it, and thrill of achievement. And the trip through a nice German town is just an approximate illustration in which we have to suspend our disbelief for a moment and enjoy the visual effects that we have never seen accurately portraited before.

    or

    2. It is a very, very large town. Since we're travelling a 99% light speed, why did you assume we were still on Earth, and not in some freaky alien German-town-mock-up of astronomic proportions? Why do you think there were no PEOPLE?!!!

  39. But, but.. by xchino · · Score: 4, Funny

    "They put you in a driver's seat that both Armstrong the Astronaut and Armstrong the Cyclist would equally enjoy"

    But what about Armstrong the overly stretchy action figure?

    --
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
    1. Re:But, but.. by Mikey-San · · Score: 1

      But what about Armstrong the overly stretchy action figure?

      In Stretch Armstrong's frame of reference, it's everyone else who's stretching madly!

      --
      Mikey-San
      Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
  40. That Flash You Just Saw? by nxtr · · Score: 1

    That was your tour. That'll be $1000 please.

    1. Re:That Flash You Just Saw? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I already paid the guide tomorrow.

  41. Re:Caution: Chinese Weaponization of Space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are you trying to demonize the Chinese? Which government is warmongering?

  42. Not insightful by MAdMaxOr · · Score: 1

    Besides the misnomer, "G forces" are proportional to acceleration, not velocity.

  43. "doing Europe in a day" by Mother+Sha+Boo+Boo · · Score: 1

    "doing Europe in a day"

    Sounds like a gang bang pr0n movie.

  44. Through the city at the speed of light by scdeimos · · Score: 1

    OK, read the article.

    The Through the city at the speed of light demo is all very lens-effect-y, but there's no account of colour-shift. As you get faster the approaching wavelengths will shorten (Blue Shift) until you get fast enough that all (normally) visible light shifts up and out of our acuity.

    Everything you'd see would be sub-infrared shifted into your spectrum, and this doesn't seem to take that into account.

  45. Wheee! by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

    Wind whipping through your hair, as you cause massive distortions in space-time throughout Tuebingen at the speed of light:20kph! Wheee!

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  46. Welcome to happy vector land! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What happens if you want to turn?

    constant speed != zero acceleration

    1. Re:Welcome to happy vector land! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually...
      constant speed does = zero acceleration.

      What part of General Relativity did you not understand?

    2. Re:Welcome to happy vector land! by shawb · · Score: 3, Informative

      No... Constant velocity = no acceleration. Constant high speed in a circle (such as in orbit)= lots of acceleration.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    3. Re:Welcome to happy vector land! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're confusing velocity with speed.

      I'm not sure why you bring the circular acceleration arguement into this. Orbiting bodies, as a rule, continually lose speed.

    4. Re:Welcome to happy vector land! by shawb · · Score: 4, Informative

      Velocity is a vector quantity, basically speed times a direction vector. If you turn, it takes a force to push you in the new direction. Since F=MA, that means that you are being accelerated. If you were to drive a car in a clockwise circle at a speed of 100 MPH, it would be constantly accelerated to the right, but its speed would remain 100 MPH. However the net velocity would be zero, as the net spatial displacement would be zero (at least every time you come back to the start point.)

      And orbiting bodies continually lost speed? What kind of troll weed are you putting in your pipe?

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    5. Re:Welcome to happy vector land! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And orbiting bodies continually lost speed? What kind of troll weed are you putting in your pipe?"

      He's not a troll; he just watches too much "Star Trek" (where orbits decay if they're not maintained).

    6. Re:Welcome to happy vector land! by rokzy · · Score: 1

      >However the net velocity would be zero, as the net spatial displacement would be zero (at least every time you come back to the start point.)

      aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
      this is a horrible thing to say. although you could argue you're making some kind of sense, you could completely mislead people. just say that the velocity is always 100MPH tangential to the circle and leave discussions of this meaningless "net velocity" you've come up with alone.

    7. Re:Welcome to happy vector land! by shawb · · Score: 1

      Hmm... maybe I meant to say "average velocity" instead of "net velocity."

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  47. Re:FUCK YOU, YOU ARROGANT PRICK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    OK, I am going to pick nits. At the speed of light, there isn't much point to turning to see the sights. Due to length contraction, everything except directly in front of or behind you is now visible at a 90 degree angle to your path.

    And, due to time dilation, you don't have the ability to decide to turn in your reference frame. Your entire trip at the speed of light must be zero duration in your reference frame to be of finite duration to outside observers.

    Of course, if they simulated those two effects, the bike ride wouldn't be very interesting.

  48. Speed of Light? by shashark · · Score: 1

    It keeps referring to the "speed of light" which itself is not constant -- is a function of the media it travels in.
    --
    All your speed is belongs to us.

    1. Re:Speed of Light? by michaeldot · · Score: 1

      They're referring to c, the speed of light in a vacuum.

      Otherwise, it's a bit bulky to say "E=m(something which is a dependent of the medium it travels in)^2".

      Of course, put light into a Bose-Einstein Condensate, and you could cycle faster than it...

    2. Re:Speed of Light? by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 1

      It keeps referring to the "speed of light" which itself is not constant -- is a function of the media it travels in.

      Yes, depending on the medium, like the traffic on the M25 outside london, the speed of light slows significantly, so you really wouldn't be going any faster than other cars, and thus wouldn't see any more than anyone else.

      --
      -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
  49. While riding your bike... by SEWilco · · Score: 1
    ...remember to signal your turns.

    Are hand signals better than using light signals?

  50. Once at the speed of light by xswl0931 · · Score: 1

    I would think that once you travel at the speed of light, you would feel as though you were standing still (since you're now travelling at a constant velocity).

    1. Re:Once at the speed of light by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Airplanes often travel at constant velocities once at maximum altitude.

  51. Thank you. by ChipMonk · · Score: 1

    Thank you so very much. This part of near-light-speed motion has always eluded me. Thanks to your mental image, I am finally able to understand this. And I think I'll be able to explain it to others, as well.

    (Although I'm sure it helps that I'm well past tipsy as I type this.)

  52. Relativity has been disproven by Urusai · · Score: 0

    Since it isn't in the Bible, "absolutists" have deemed it a mere "theory" proposed by "scientists" who may not be "right". Besides, apparently Einstein was Jewish and not a Southern Baptist, and you know that the Southern Baptists have God's own word they are right.

  53. Relativistic G forces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's Newtonian. The relativistic acceleration equations are different. See this FAQ for the correct equations, which will tell you how long (in either proper or inertial time) it would take to reach a given speed, as measured by an inertial observer initially at rest with respect to the body -- with some calculations for 1 g acceleration.

    (For instance, to reach 0.77c requires 1 year of subjective time or 1.19 years of objective time; for 0.97c, it's 2 years subjective, 3.75 years objective; for 0.99999999996c it's 12 years subjective, 113,243 years objective.)

  54. Cosmos by dexter+riley · · Score: 4, Informative

    C'mon, surely someone else remembers the episode of Carl Sagan's series "Cosmos" where they did the relativistic motor scooter trick? In a small town in Italy, where the speed of light is only 40 km/hr (strictly enforced!) a young man leaves on a tour of the city at relativistic speeds, leaving his friend and younger brother behind. Sagan describes the effects of blue- and red-shifting, the contraction of the cyclist's length, and the dilation of time. It ends with the young man returning to the place he started, just a few minutes (in his frame of reference) after he left. Sadly, he finds all his friends gone, and only his once-younger brother, now an old man, still waiting for him.

    I don't know why, but the bittersweet reunion of the two brothers, as well as the story of the late Wolf Vishniac in the "Blues for a Red Planet" episode, both make me cry.

    1. Re:Cosmos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I don't know why, but the bittersweet reunion of the two brothers, as well as the story of the late Wolf Vishniac in the "Blues for a Red Planet" episode, both make me cry.

      That's an easy one -- you're a pussy. ;-)

    2. Re:Cosmos by d474 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Carl Sagan always had a way blending the cold of science with the warmth of humanity. It's always easier to "get it" with science if you allow the implications sink into your emotions. That's where the meaning comes from.

      --
      Authority questions you. Return the favor.
  55. It can't be as good as... by Forthan+Red · · Score: 1

    the "running" scene in The Wizard of Speed and Time .

  56. For immediate release by abulafia · · Score: 1

    The BAFC, having learned that physics can have psychoactive effects, has announced a new initiative to counter the spread of so-call "light-speed", and the dangerous effects on our children and communities. "It has come to our attention that high relative velocities can distort the senses and impair driving," Arnold. B Toole, Executive Director of the Department of Health and Bodily Function Control (news, links) said. "Accordingly, we're partnering with the Department of Motor Vehicles and NASA to control this emerging danger."

    --
    I forget what 8 was for.
  57. Even earlier... by ktakki · · Score: 2, Informative

    I recall seeing still shots of a speed-of-light visualization in a brochure from Carnegie-Mellon's supercomputing center, back in the early '90s.

    I can't find the brochure online (this was pre-WWW), but I think the stills came from this paper, from 1990.

    Not that I think that this sort of thing is redundant. As technology advances, this is the type of visualization that's worth repeating on new hardware and new software.

    k.

    --
    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
  58. Cherenkov (sp?) light... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Cherenkov light is sort of an example of that. It is caused by particles travelling faster than the speed of light in water. That's not faster than C, since C is just the speed of light in a vacuum.

  59. Ob. ST:TNG reference by kurzweilfreak · · Score: 1

    Pssh. What a waste of time. Just turn on your inertial dampers.

    --

    kurzweil_freak

    5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student

    Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

  60. Close, but not quite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    There isn't any law of relativity that says "an object in acceleration always has a slower clock than an object in an inertial state".

    That being said: there is a competition between a clock in orbit running slower than a ground clock due to its speed, and running faster due to it being in weaker gravity (gravitational time dilation). For the GPS clocks, those shifts are 7,200 ns/day and 45,900 n/s day, respectively, so the latter wins out, and the clocks run faster. See this page.

    1. Re:Close, but not quite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is such a law of relativity: geodesics (free fall motion) have maximal proper time; accelerating bodies experience less time. However, it's kind of tricky to apply this to oribiting vs. ground bodies, since the worldlines have to intersect at beginning and end to apply this reasoning. Otherwise, you have to resort to Doppler shifting between observers to define the relative passage of time, so that conclusion doesn't necessarily hold.

  61. Re:Hey! Write a review for Slashdot! by hazah · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Your sig. sir, is as terrible as your sarcasm.

  62. Re:Apply Theory of Relativity to the Slashdot Effe by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    The website looks like a blank white page with the text "Connecting to foo.bar.com" underneath. As for the server, rumor it is under that conditions it changes phase and becomes liquid.

  63. You're sig by MochaMan · · Score: 1

    You spelled "were" wrong.

  64. Or you could try Celestia by fear025 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For people really wanting to see how it would look to travel at the speed of light, you could always try the open source 3d space simulator Celestia.

    I find that watching planets whiz by as you travel at the speed of light is pretty entertaining. I've had some fun just trying to steer with a joystick at this speed.

    Of course, I suppose if you really were going this speed (or even 99.9% of it), you'd see some wierd spectral shifting (or that circular blur effect as in the article's animation), which is not shown by celestia.

  65. Speed of light IS a constant. by Spaceman40 · · Score: 3, Informative

    What you're talking about (the slowing down of light in glass, etc.) is the effect of light hitting a molecule of something, being absorbed by it, and then being reemitted out the other end.

    Light's speed is a constant, c. It's the speed of absorbtion and reemission that changes it's apparent speed through substances.

    --
    I [may] disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
  66. mass increases by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 1

    So if mass increases as speed increases wouldn't some of your bodily processes start to take on some rather bizarre side effects.

    Imagine your heart trying to pump blood which has tripled in mass per unit volume. Also might be advisable to visit the white throne before doing any excursions near light speed. Can you imagine having to... well... you know after several mass multiplications.

    1. Re:mass increases by Bisqwit · · Score: 1

      > So if mass increases as speed increases wouldn't some of your bodily processes
      > start to take on some rather bizarre side effects.

      Yes, that would most certainly happen if it were the case, but mass doesn't actually change - at least not the mass you're thinking of.

      There are a few different things called "mass":
      - inertial mass
      - gravitational mass
      I recall there was a third one too, but I can't find a link describing it right now.

      Anyway, try a simple Google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=mass+inertial+gravi tational
      and see what it turns up.

    2. Re:mass increases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The point of relativity is that speed is relative. Therefore, traveling near the speed of light is no different to you; in fact, you yourself are, right now, traveling at near the speed of light with respect to some observer. In your rest frame, nothing special happens. To some other observer, they see your relativistic mass increase, but forces (e.g. the pumping of blood by your heart) transform likewise, to make everything consistent.

  67. Seriously! by PseudoThink · · Score: 1

    Haha, I was thinking the same thing...quite awesome that old B-movie sci-fi shows using cheap lens effects to convey speed had it right all along.

    1. Re:Seriously! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm, what part of modern physics say that objects moving at relativistic speeds would emit plaid light? You must be thinking of another old b-movie that happened to get something scientific right.

  68. I installed it, and it works! by tod_miller · · Score: 2, Funny

    I looked at the front page, and I saw an article about OSS Java, that was posted a week ago!!!

    Wow!! the effects of time/spped of light being made clear!

    Now I don't need to subscribe the /., I can read stories before they are even submitted!

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  69. Re:Caution: Chinese Weaponization of Space by Whqra+Enhf · · Score: 1
    Which government is warmongering?
    The war-like Mexicans reëstablishing Nuevo Aztlan.
  70. Re:Only one problem... by d474 · · Score: 1
    "Evolution is also a theory. Let the flames begin."
    You stated a fact and expect a flame war?

    Okay, let me try..."Creationism is a religious myth. Intelligent Design is based on that religious myth. Let the flames begin."

    I stated a fact, but I just don't feel that will be enough to start a flame war. What do you think?
    --
    Authority questions you. Return the favor.
  71. Hint by troon · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you're going to misspell a word, don't make it the one you emphasize in ALL CAPS...

    --
    Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev
  72. The movie reminds me of Salvia by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 1

    Salvia Divinorum.
    Insane stuff.
    I wouldn't recommend it :)

    1. Re:The movie reminds me of Salvia by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 1

      I hope your actually using it how it is meant to be used. I see a lot of people getting 20X extract and smoking bowls at parties, etc. They are "high" for about 5 minutes, but can barely talk (I mean,you lose all sense of your body..), or function. Everyone is lost in their own little world. This is *not* how the plant is to be used.

      --
      You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
    2. Re:The movie reminds me of Salvia by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't work for a very long time, months on end, until one day - on a very hot summer day it suddenly worked.
      Very similar to that movie, time-space flattened. Yes the concentration was very high.
      That aside, I have a feeling the plant should be researched further (if it already isn't) for it's medical properties and power of cure alone.

    3. Re:The movie reminds me of Salvia by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 1

      Check out Daniel Siebert. I believe he is one of the leading researchers in the field. He has a lot of information as well as top quality Salvia.

      --
      You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  73. relativistic flight through stonehenge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    someone at the university of hannover made a simmilar thing
    http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~dragon/stonehenge/ stone1.htm
    in german though..

  74. Oy! by Primal_theory · · Score: 0

    To many big words for me...

    Especially on a Monday Morning...ugh

    --
    Your skill in reading has increased by one point!
  75. Dark? by lkchild · · Score: 1

    Surely it would be intensely dark, as you are travelling at the same speed as the photons that would enter your eye.

    After a brief period the photons that you hit, but which couldnt bounce off any faster than you are already going would build up over your front, acting as a shield for further photons getting into your eyeball (assuming you hadnt been pulverised by billions of photons each with a really small amount of momentum hitting you).

    1. Re:Dark? by John+Meacham · · Score: 1

      The photons hit your eye at the speed of light no matter how fast you are going. That is the basic revelation of relativity. The speed of light is constant no matter what your reference frame. As for photons acting as a shield for further photons, this can't happen either, photons do not interact with other photons in any way, they just pass through one another.

      --
      http://notanumber.net/
    2. Re:Dark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Photons don't shield other photons.

  76. Re:Caution: Chinese Weaponization of Space by hachete · · Score: 1

    NASA didn't get anything done until the Russians started doing things. I think the US Air Force would have gotten there - they did pretty good with breaking the sound barrier.

    I remember a document which tried to say there was a link btwn the X15 and the Shuttle. Nah. IMO, if the Airforce had a carried on, they would of built a reusable space-craft.

    --
    Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
  77. Ob. Family Guy by NardofDoom · · Score: 1

    Stretch Armstrong? But his arms stretch out to next week!

    --
    You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
  78. Not quite by Jamie+Lokier · · Score: 2, Informative

    Normally we use the words absorbtion and re-emission to refer to electron energy-level transitions within the molecule: photons are absorbed and promote electrons to higher energy levels; then, at a somewhat random time and in a somewhat random direction (not uniformly), electrons drop to lower energy levels and re-emit photons. (Note that these transitions aren't instantaneous, nor entirely well defined in time, but we call them quantum events anyway).

    A notable effect of complete absorbtion and re-emission events is the tendancy to randomise the direction and phase of the radiation.

    When slight slows down in a substance, this is different. It's due to coupling between the light and the molecules of the substance. Photons aren't absorbed in the sense of electron energy-level quantum transitions, but rather the passing photon wave packets interact with the electron waves to modify the phase of the photons. You could think of it as fractional absorbtion and re-emission, each molecule affecting the path and phase of each photon only a very small amount.

    There is a qualitative difference between the two effects: light slowing down in a substance usually only randomises the phase and direction very slightly.

    Here's a daft analogy. Light slowing down is like running through a vast plain of spinning merry-go-rounds, occasionally touching one with your hand or foot so that it affects your motion. Absorbtion and re-emission is like occasionally jumping onto a merry-go-round, waiting for a little with your eyes closed, then jumping off again.

    -- Jamie

  79. No, there is no ether! by TeatimeofSoul · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm making one assumption in writing this. I assume that your cyclist never turns his head. This seems like a likely assumption, since, if he does turn his head, there would be no need for relativity to explain why he can see the lamppost after he's past it.

    What you're saying is, that a cyclist going at high speed past a lamppost will at some point see a mirror image of the back of the lamppost. This is flat out wrong. Which parts of the lamppost that are seen by the cyclist, does not depend on his speed.

    The mental image I get when I read your post, is that of a cyclist, 'seeing' a billiard ball photon being fired from a lamppost - just as he is passing it - curving in across his path so that he runs into it. This is the ether explanation for the constant speed of light, disproved by the Michelson-Morley (sp?) experiment.

    In fact, in any inertial system light always behaves the same. The relative speed of the lamppost emitting the photon, does not affect the behavior of the photon in, say, an inertial system where the cyclist is at rest at origo - apart from deciding what frequency it has. He can see it if it is incident upon him within his field of vision, not otherwise.

    Objects going past you at relativistic speeds will indeed appear to be rotated. This is because the perspective you get of the closer part of the object becomes mixed with the perspective of the further off part, which is from an earlier time.
    Imagine that a rod has two synchronized watches, one in each end. When the rod is some way off, you have a head-on perspective of it; as you go past it, you will see more of its side. Imagine that your eyes are so fast, that you can tell that the further off watch appears to be behind (whether the rod is moving or not), due to the fact, that the image of that watch has farther to travel. At relativistic speeds, you would then see the closer part of the rod curve away from you, since the side perspective, of the closer part of the rod, becomes mixed with the head-on perspective, of the further off part. (Drawing pictures would help at this point.)
    However, the constituent perspectives in all this, are still the same that you would see, if you went past at a non-relativistic speed.

  80. My car goes faster than the speed of light by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Woooo! In the 2nd video it takes 26 seconds to go around the block. My car can drive faster than the speed of light! I'm really glad that I bought the 2.5 liter, because I don't want to go warp speed with the turbo.

    Gas mileage, save the whales, ya know.

  81. Speed of light = c. c^2 occurs in e = mc^2. by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

    Jeez, folks, someone was just asking a question...

    The speed of light is just c. The familiar equation e = mc^2 is read "e equals em cee SQUARED."

    Energy has the dimensions of a mass times the SQUARE of a speed. For example, kinetic energy is 0.5 mv^2. Think of accelerating a car. It takes longer to accelerate from 30 to 60 than it does to accelerate from 0 to 30

  82. You are not correct. by jgardn · · Score: 2, Informative

    Your basic assumptions are wrong.

    First, it's not a perception only that objects contract in length in the direction of motion (remember, the frame of reference you are observing is always at rest! It's the universe that is moving, not you.) It's an actual contraction. Time dilation is likewise. The reason this must occur is because of the simple fact that the speed of light is the same in ALL frames of reference. This means the particle of light you see is travelling the exact same speed relative to you as the particle of light someone in one of the buildings sees as you zip past them.

    There has to be some "give" in the universe to allow this to hold true. That "give" is the actual contraction of size and expansion of time.

    The relativity effects are not simple perception distortions; the actual distance shrinks and time dilates. Objects get distorted in reality.

    Finally, to you, those particles of light weren't "bending" to get to your eye. They travelled straight from the lamppost (or wherever the lamppost was when the light was bounced off of or emitted from it) to you. You can't see the back of the lamppost.

    --
    The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
    1. Re:You are not correct. by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      Previous post is right. The light does not BEND for you to see the side of the lamppost until you reach the side of the lightpost. The light ALWAYS reaches you at light speed. The Universe changes shape and time dilates to accommodate. The light coming towards you goes up in frequency and therefore energy. Even if you are traveling very near light speed, you still get the "same amount" of light from the rear, just at a lower frequency and energy.

      Einstein posited that an actually object trying to achieve the speed of light would expand and would take increasing amounts of energy (you see this in cyclotrons trying to get one proton to the speed of light--even with megawatts they only get close). The energy approaches infinite.

      So the idea of traveling on a bike, and seeing if a flashlight still works is a bit beyond the energy budget of our galaxy.

      The blue-shift and red-shift concepts work with below light speed. At light speed, you only have photons interacting with other photons. Perhaps the only way to really see what would happen is to sit in an extremely large gravity field--since gravity is the same as velocity when it comes to relativity (hence, how objects have more mass as they approach relative velocities).

      This does not mean that you couldn't go faster than light if you were not in the universe. But, since all our observations have been made INSIDE the universe, we have no proof of this yet. I'm hoping for FTL, because going to other stars would be a very boring trip under Einsteinian physics.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
  83. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He knows what he's talking about, unlike the GP.

  84. Re:Caution: Chinese Weaponization of Space by Riddlefox · · Score: 1
    Remember what happened when the space program was under the United States department of war? (Specifically the Air Force?)

    As a minor nitpick, the USAF was never under the Department of War. The National Security Act of 1947 changed the Department of War into the Department of Defense (well, merged Department of War with the Department of the Navy), and the Army Air Corps into the United States Air Force.

  85. Could someone explain the relativistic time thing? by kalirion · · Score: 1

    I've always wondered about this. So if you leave Earth and fly around at near the speed of light and come back, more time would have passed on Earth than would for you. But with everything being relative, couldn't you see it that the Earth was flying around at near light speeds in relation to you, while you were standing still? So then why does the time pass slower for you than the other way around?

  86. Re:Could someone explain the relativistic time thi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    But with everything being relative, couldn't you see it that the Earth was flying around at near light speeds in relation to you, while you were standing still?

    Yes.

    So then why does the time pass slower for you than the other way around?

    The Earth sees time pass slower for you, and you see time pass slower for the Earth. However, if you go out and come back, everyone will agree that you're younger than people who stayed behind on Earth. Reconciling this is the basis of the twin paradox.

  87. WOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, in order 99.999999996% the speed of light, it would take you 12 years but, to an independent observer, it would take over 130,000 years? That is the coolest thing I've heard all week (all month for that matter).

    (I'm intimately familiar w/relativity, but it's still facinating to hear the concept expressed in such terms.)

    1. Re:WOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, in fact, you could cross the galaxy in that 12 years of subjective time, if you accelerate at 1 g the whole way.

  88. This is What Bothers Me About Quantum Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Einstein believed until the day he died that the entire universe must be predictable down to its smallest scale, however deep that may lie. He couldn't accept that quantum physics was inherently random, and thought that it was just a matter of making precise enough observations of quantum systems to be able to predict them with certainty.

    So, you have a photon. It has no mass, so it always travels at c in a vacuum. Since it travels at c, in its frame of reference the universe has no duration and no length. It is emitted from one atom and absorbed by another instantaneously, from its perspective. Also, the rest of the universe exists outside the photon's light cone (which incidentally, has a zero radius and zero length), so the rest of the universe is therefore completely irrelevant to the photon. Remember also that every frame of reference is perfectly valid.

    This means that for every photon that ever has been or will be emitted by one atom and absorbed by another, there is a relativistic frame of reference in which those two atoms are tangent. That means, for example, that if you turn your naked eye on the light from a star 100 light-years away, photons emitted from that distant sun 100 years ago are striking your retina, and for those photons the entire universe is a single point that bridges the star and your eye instantaneously. It must have therefore been "known" 100 years ago when the photon came into being that it would strike your eye, and therefore by extension the entire universe must be completely deterministic.

    My head hurts thinking about it.

    1. Re:This is What Bothers Me About Quantum Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must have therefore been "known" 100 years ago when the photon came into being that it would strike your eye, and therefore by extension the entire universe must be completely deterministic.

      That conclusion does not follow from your premise.

    2. Re:This is What Bothers Me About Quantum Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does if you use conventional math and logic. If you're in a relativistic frame which consists of only the single point where a photon emitter and a photon absorber are tangent, then that's that. The very existence of that frame requires that the emitter and absorber be definite objects; there's no question about which two objects are involved.

      On the macroscopic scale, say you launch a spaceship from one planet and point it at a star and have it accelerate steadily until collision occurs. Assume nothing interrupts the journey. In every valid frame of reference, the launch happens before the collision, the ship always travels towards the star, and there's never any question about where the ship is headed. The only part that varies between different frames is how long the journey takes and what the total distance travelled was.

      Back to the photon. When it is emitted and therefore has its own frame of reference, the source and destination of the photon are explicitly defined. The photon is emitted and absorbed simultaneously without time or distance passing. From this viewpoint, a photon is just energy transfer between two atoms that happened to bump into each other. The only difference between the photon's frame and the frames of the emitting and absorbing atoms is how much time passed between the events and what the distance between them was.

      There can't be any doubt as to which atom the photon will eventually strike. Therefore, whether the distance is one micrometer or a billion light-years, the eventual destination of a photon at the time it is created is a known quantity. The universe must therefore be deterministic.

      All of that being said, I am also prepared to use alternative mathematics to show how relativity could work without having the universe be deterministic, but I only do that on odd-numbered days.

    3. Re:This is What Bothers Me About Quantum Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It does if you use conventional math and logic.

      Don't be absurd. Massless photons themselves are a prediction of a fundamentally non-deterministic theory, quantum electrodynamics. Bell's theorem continues to hold in relativistic form.

      If you're in a relativistic frame which consists of only the single point where a photon emitter and a photon absorber are tangent, then that's that.

      There's no such frame. The emitter and adsorber are at distinct points in the spacetime manifold; however, the distance between them imposed by the additional structure of the spacetime metric is zero. In pseudo-Riemannian geometry, unlike Euclidean geometry, two points with zero distance between them don't have to be the same point.

      The universe between source and destination is not a single point, it's an entire 1-dimensional curve of distinct points all of which are separated by no distance.

      However, even if you were right and there were no points between source and destination, that still wouldn't imply that relativistic quantum mechanics is deterministic. In fact, you can have zero-dimensional non-deterministic quantum theories (consider the quantum theory of a single Ising spin, for instance, or the IKKT matrix model of M-theory).

      When it is emitted and therefore has its own frame of reference, the source and destination of the photon are explicitly defined.

      They are no more explicitly defined than the source and destination of a massive particle.

      Besides which, it's not terribly meaningful to speak of "the frame" of an observer which is not timelike, nor "what that observer sees"; it's not timelike, and you can't associate a clock with it, any more than you can with a spacelike "observer".

      The only difference between the photon's frame and the frames of the emitting and absorbing atoms is how much time passed between the events and what the distance between them was.

      The same is true of a non-null frame of a massive body, too.

      There can't be any doubt as to which atom the photon will eventually strike.

      The photon doesn't have to strike any atom. Just like any other particle in quantum theory, there is a probability amplitude associated with any path of the photon. The trajectory of a real particle is not predetermined, massless or not. Just look at the path integral for the QED Lagrangian!

      Therefore, whether the distance is one micrometer or a billion light-years, the eventual destination of a photon at the time it is created is a known quantity.

      This conclusion does not follow from your premise. It's not logically connected to any known facts about photons. It has nothing to do with the quantum theory of photons.

      But by all means, publish your theory. The Nobel Prize awaits you for proving that relativistic quantum mechanics is deterministic.

      While I'm at it, I may as well correct another of your errors:

      the rest of the universe exists outside the photon's light cone (which incidentally, has a zero radius and zero length), so the rest of the universe is therefore completely irrelevant to the photon

      A light cone is associated with an event, not a worldline. The light cone of a photon at a particular point on its worldline is no different from the light cone of a massive particle at the same event. I have no idea what you mean when you claim that "the rest of the universe is therefore completely irrelevant to the photon", but if that follows from some property of the light cone, it has to apply to massive particles as well.

  89. If by travelling at the speed of light.... by armando_wall · · Score: 1

    If by travelling at the speed of light you get anywhere instantly, then how come we assume that what we see in the skies is old news? I mean... I've read that the light from a star which is 10 light years far away from us will take 10 years to reach us.

    That means that the image of the star we see in the sky is the one from ten years ago.

    Wouldn't all this "travelling at the speed of light gets us anywhere instantaneously" debunk that?

    1. Re:If by travelling at the speed of light.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I've read that the light from a star which is 10 light years far away from us will take 10 years to reach us.

      Yes, according to us. No time elapses for the photon; the 10 "outside" years pass by instantaneously from the photon's perspective.

  90. Damn it, egg on face time. by TeatimeofSoul · · Score: 1

    What is it about having a submitted post about something out there, that suddenly makes you realise how obvious it is that the exact converse is true.

    If anyone cares, I had a mental picture of a lamppost rapidly going by a still-standing cyclist. Except that, the lamp had blinds that would allow it to shine only in one direction. I drew a line from the cyclist's eyes to the lamp, along the edge of his field of vision, and thought, stupidly, that the blinds would have to be open along this line.

    The PP's post was entirely right, and mine was entirely wrong, as far as it was different, though the rest still holds.

  91. Take a look at the relativistic raytracer by sveni · · Score: 1

    http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Searle/Obsolete/Rayt racer.html

    The results are a lot more realistic.

    You can even find some nifty animations there:
    http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Searle/Obsolete/Down load.html

    Greetings
    Sven

  92. Time dilation and the Doppler effect by gbpuckett · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The way various posts have dealt with time dilation and the Doppler effect as separate issues in relativistic theory shows how people have gotten comfortable with Einstein's theories, rather than do what Einstein did and keep pushing at the gaps in the theories that were current in his day.

    In doing some reading on Einstein's General Theory, I ran across the idea that Einstein's theory of how time dilates in the presence of an intense gravitational field could be proven by a red-shift in light affected by that gravitational field, the light functioning as a "clock" that would shift its spectrum in direct relationship with the gravitational time distortion.

    Fine, I thought. Light does make a pretty reliable and observable clock. So, what does that mean for the Special Theory? Well, for objects moving away from each other, no problem. At relativistic velocities, there would be a red shift, which would fit with Einstein's theory of time dilation. However, since the Special Theory suggests dilation as the only relativistic time distortion caused by high velocity, any blue shift experienced by converging objects is really problematic. Blue-shifted light would indicate a contraction of time, something that the Special Theory doesn't consider at all. But maybe we should.

    Do a few thought problems, and it becomes clear that, at least with regard to velocity, time dilation is but one side of a two-sided Doppler coin.

    The Special Theory is great, but maybe not the last word, even in dealing with just velocity effects. It doesn't pay much attention to vectors. It hints at but doesn't really address the possibility that, when two objects have a relationship of extreme velocity, what is most distorted by relativistic effects is not either object's length, mass, or passage through time, but each object's ability to use light to "observe" the other, particularly with regard to its location and velocity.

    After one hundred years of digesting the Special Theory, we really ought to be doing more than creating more dazzling illustrations of it. It needs correcting and refining, too.

    1. Re:Time dilation and the Doppler effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      However, since the Special Theory suggests dilation as the only relativistic time distortion caused by high velocity, any blue shift experienced by converging objects is really problematic. Blue-shifted light would indicate a contraction of time, something that the Special Theory doesn't consider at all. But maybe we should.

      What nonsense. Doppler blueshifting is accounted for in special relativity, and does not imply time contraction. The two effects in SR that influence the observation of light are time dilation and the finite propagation speed of light; blueshift arises from the combination of the two. The time dilation part is separated out using Einstein's synchronized rod/clock procedure.

      The Special Theory is great, but maybe not the last word, even in dealing with just velocity effects. It doesn't pay much attention to vectors.

      You are ignorant beyond belief. SR is wholly a theory of spacetime vectors. Read Spacetime Physics by Taylor and Wheeler and Flat and Curved Space-Times by Ellis and Williams for a discussion of 4-vectors.

      It hints at but doesn't really address the possibility that, when two objects have a relationship of extreme velocity, what is most distorted by relativistic effects is not either object's length, mass, or passage through time, but each object's ability to use light to "observe" the other, particularly with regard to its location and velocity.

      SR doesn't ignore that! The graphics linked to by this very Slashdot article take into account not just the time dilation and length contraction, but the optical distortions due to the propagation of light. See, for instance, Penrose-Terrell rotation and Moebius transformations.

      After one hundred years of digesting the Special Theory, we really ought to be doing more than creating more dazzling illustrations of it. It needs correcting and refining, too.

      The special theory was corrected by the general theory, which in turn is in the process of being corrected by quantum gravity. "Corrections" based on your vast miscomphrension of relativity don't count.

  93. Let's end this debate for good by xv4n · · Score: 1

    Why don't we mount a video camera on top of a photon? Afterwards we watch the resulting video in complete amusement.

  94. Peter Ustinov's Been there, done that by peetm · · Score: 1

    Years ago there was a tv (on the BBC) series in which Peter Ustinov 'explored' Einstein's theories, and blackholes.

    For years since I've been trying to find out whether or not anyone else remembers this, or knows where a copy of the series might be found.

    Oh yes, and he had a much better film of this effect and it was motorcycle based too!

    --
    @peetm