Slashdot Mirror
No Billboards in Space
An anonymous reader writes "CNN is reporting that the Federal Aviation Administration proposed Thursday to amend its regulations to ensure that it can enforce a law that prohibits 'obtrusive' advertising in zero gravity." From the article: "For instance, outsized billboards deployed by a space company into low Earth orbit could appear as large as the moon and be seen without a telescope, the FAA said. Big and bright advertisements might hinder astronomers."
And sorry, who is enforcing this law? I wasn't aware that the US owned space.
Get your own free personal location tracker
be seen without a telescope
So we could still make a deal if aliens drop by wanting to buy Jupiter.
No big, bright billboards by highways either- because they are a distraction to drivers.
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
How about it driving everyone bonkers?
Man now I can't put a big 1 mile by 1 mile sign up with the two ASCII characters ./
Talk about no freedom of speech.
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
Europe annouces a space billboard initiative. Part of this initiative involves a unilateral declaration that any attempt to remove their billboards will be seen as an act of agression. Followed by what sounded like muffled laughter.
I don't care what you say, all I need is my Wumpabet soup.
The FAA will conclude that WalMart in space would hurt local merchants.
As the builders of the space elevator located just off the coast in Cuba light up the night sky with giant billboards facing Florida ....
...
Oh, c'mon, don't tell me you didn't see that one coming
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
...will be on the receiving end of a petrol bomb.
Act like a twat, you'll be treated like a twat.
Yep, this'll stop US markets in space ... but how 'bout those dang Martians setting up 'Eat at Joes' signs in yer loca L4's? I have to laugh at this stuff. Desire is one thing, but making it happen is another. With all the junk we have flying around up there now they probably wouldn't last long for the investment.
If they occupy as much solid-angle as the moon, then they could eclipse the sun (or moon). Can you imagine disc-shaped billboards? I can see it now... "This eclipse brought to you by Coca-Cola!" Better yet, "All your photons are belong to us". - Joe
What if Fidel Castro or Hu Jintao (two known tinpot Commie dictators - Mr. Castro of Cuba and Mr. Jintao of China) want to advertise Commie propaganda through this method? Who the heck is gonna stop them?
Something would be a bigger challenge to as astronomers that the light polution given off by cities? Anyway how does this law matter since the FAA has no rights to enforce this law since you could physicly be above a forgen nation but be clearly visiable to the entire united states (if it was large enough)
All your base are belong to us.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Imagine if China put its flag in orbit. What is the US going to do, shoot it down?
God spoke to me.
In the good 'ol USA science is suggesting the advertising dollar take the back seat. I don't think so... the military industrial complex is pushing ahead with weapons in space in the face of many nations wanting to keep space weapons free and the scientific community thinks advertisiing will be kept out of space?
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
It's NOT obstrusive, honest.....
.1% of the sky!
It only covers
So what if its 1000 sq miles and neon green
(no idea on actual numbers but you get the idea)
for when they forbid obtrusive advertising in CYBERspace.
We can't keep any double-standards. What is with people that think just because the letters N-A-S-A all line up in serial that it constitutes immunity from litter laws?
All are equally under the law, or no?
without prejudice
The advertising will simply be slightly more than zero g to avoid the wording of their regulations. With a very-slowly decaying orbit you could get quite a few impressions before the reentry. And with enough luck, you could go for deorbit somewhere over DC.
Okay, the FAA controls the US airspace, right? So, they probably won't allow any of these LEO Billboards to be launched in the U.S.
Of course, there's virtually nothing they can do if an LEO craft is launched from some other location and meanders over the U.S. from time to time.
Perhaps they could do something if it were placed in a geostationary orbit over the U.S. but then it wouldn't be in LEO.
"It's a very tangled subsystem." --Windows kernel guru
>
> So we could still make a deal if aliens drop by wanting to buy Jupiter.
Jupiter? Yeah, we at AlienClick [mttp://1.3.9.27.81.243] can do that. In fact, all these worlds can be yours for $39.99 per line, except Europa, which has been reserved by a prior bidder.
Blade Runner (1982) I believe employed the use of either low orbit billboards, or just random hovering billboards. Hard to tell what the effect was intended to be.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Me thinks more Jimmy Kimmel the mods should watch. -Yoda
Why can't I get a check from Goodyear when their blimp flies through the airspace over my property? Or force them to turn aside?
--
make install -not war
That's right. Silly.
The U.S. can't even control ground based advertisements and internet pop-ups within it's own borders. Why the hell is any government agency so wrapped up in make laws and regulations that don't even apply yet!
Well, if the FAA/FCC/[A-Z] agency won't help me crusade against idiotic advertising I'll do it on my own. I think I could make a living at it even.
That's right. I'm changing my profession to assasin for hire. I'll find out who is responsible to stupid, korny, and plain annoying commercials and kill them.
I'm currently taking up collections for the head of the mastermind behind the recockulous Burger King 'Waking up with King' campain, and throwing in a side of the stupid Social Security 'You wouldn't tear down the house to fix the sink' campaing.
I'll start the bidding at $20.
I also plan on paying the composer of 'Metropolitain Matress' a visit. That will be an open auction though.
Be Safe! Sleep with a Marine. Semper Fi!
I heard a joke related to this someday. its sound like this:
-Mr. President, national security cheff to the US President, the russians ar plenning to send their astronauts to paint the moon into red.
-No problem, sad the president, we will send than our astronauts and paint a "Coca~Cola" logo into the middle.
Think like a hacker, act like a hacker, but never become a hacker !
Good question, considering that as the earth turns, our cone of airspace, or spacespace, if extended infinitely, would cover a significant portion of the universe.
No Billboards in Space
No farting either. Or copying DVDs. Britney is banned in space too.
"It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
Sell Uranus.
I gather I missed the article (and subsequent dupes) declaring that the USA has absolute authority over space.
I'm a member of the astronomy club here in Orlando and Disney World about 35 miles away impedes our observations. Any astronomer will tell you that a full moon can ruin observations for the night and any billboard that's as bright as the moon and is in full brightness all the time is going to tick every astronomer off within the viewable region. I feel sorry for any country's astronomers where one of these things get put up.
Insert Witty Remark Here ===>____________________________
it would be a great place to hide the space lasers behind...
But Cowboy Neal's is!
When you thought spam was bad enough... I guess you could call this advertising in the ether.
The Ads that are possibe with this would suck but why not use it as a warning system for poor nations, say a volcano is about to erupt, put a message in the sky for all to see, no matter how rual, the message would get out.
Or even worse, the Boogie Man could eclipse the sun with a giant disco ball, letting all the evil minions stay out forever!
p ?ean=14764172538
http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.as
"It's a very tangled subsystem." --Windows kernel guru
Sounds like there's a pretty big loophole to me - technically speaking, low earth orbit is not zero-gravity. The gravity that close to the earth is almost as strong as it is here on the surface. The onyl difference is that you're zinging around at 20,000 MPH, thus keeping yourself from falling out of the sky.
I would be interested in what libertarians would say about this.
After all, if you own some physical property, it seems that you can do with it as you wish, especially if it is in space, which is not anyone's property.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
...you slashdotters just can't help making desperate attempts to cynically imply the US government is trying to overstep its boundaries and turn into some fascist regime. Sorry, but companies based in the US CAN be regulated by the US government. Many European countries will likely follow with similar laws and thus most major companies will be stopped from displaying billboards in space. Note this is NOT a violation of anyone's rights, simply a reasonable use of regulatory power.
Good try, though.
-py
In other words: forget the static billboards and welcome the spinning billtorusii thanks to the general relativity theory and the equivalence principle in non-inertial frames of reference. Another example of politicians who want to write laws to control the entire universe without any knowledge of the real laws of said universe. (Pun most definitely intended.) Sad. Very sad.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
An American Officer runs up to his superior and says excitedly: "Sir, Sir! The Soviets have painted the moon red, what should we do?"
After a little contemplation the man replied: "Take a bucket of white paint to the moon and write Coca Cola on it."
But my Mom says I'm cool! -Milhouse
Wasn't there a Dilbert episode on just -this-?
"If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy
Oops, meant 34,000 KM there, not miles, sorry. Maybe I should work for NASA.
The FCC can't mandate broadcast flag. The FCC can mandate what goes in space.
Religion can't stop suicide, but it can stop stem cell research.
I'm so damn confused.
Won't it be nice when nationalism fades?
1) arrive first
2) arrive armed
There! you own space! Works for solar systems, planets, moons, asteroids. Quite simple, really.
I was hoping to make a fortune selling rocket-propelled 'adblockers' but now I have to think of another get-rich-quick scheme.
Since the beginning of time man has yearned to destroy the sun. I will do the next best thing...block it out!
[presses a button raising a shield over the model town]
Sovereign immunity.
I'm in the future? Space-based adverts are very, you know, futurey.
"That's no moon... that's an oversized advertisement for the next generation Whopper(tm)"
This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
Darn!
And here I was working feverishly on adapting the "bat signal" concept to projecting adverts on the surface of the moon from a series of geosynchronous satellites.
/.
Too bad, because I'm guessing everyone's favorite corporation would relish that sort of obtrusive advertising even more than they do their animated ads here on
Oh well, back to the drawing board... Hmmm... I wonder if white styrofoam cups have to be plain white... (Prior art! Back off you thieving philistines!) : )
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Ah, the pleasure of shutting down ads with nuclear weapons... It gives the concept of zapping an entirely new meaning!
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
Chairface Chippendale will be real disappointed.
SPOON!!!!
It's a good thing. The last thing we need is something like this. Worse than doomsday!
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
anyone find the actual text of this proposal? last time i checked there was no such thing as 'zero gravity'...
George Lucas sues AT&T after logo in space is confused with the Death Star.
8==8 Bones 8==8
... shouldn't we make a law that forbids to arrange stars for advertizing purposes?
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
Oh brother...
The spammers, indubitably, have been alerted to yet another advertising medium (Space, the final frontier, these are the voyages of the spamship, Gator...).
Why? why? why, did you open your mouth, FCC?
Upon a quick glance I thought the title read "No Billiards in Space." My first thought was the government must be regulating the game in space because a ball might fly off the table and break somebody's mask.
In a 2000ad story, there was a short period of time when the 'lovers moon' was available, after which the adverts would turn on, and the moon became a giant billboard. Back then it was science fiction, but with technology advancing the way it is, such idea's are now firmly in the realm of fact.
At this point in time the idea of advertising in space is a concern, but as soon as there are billions to be made from it, you can bet lobbyists will be redefining this law like crazy.
Expect 'maximum size', or 'maximum viewing time' to be replacing 'none at all' in the not too distant future.
What we'll probably find is that strict orbits for billboards will be defined, so as not to interfere with observations, possibly along with proviso's that adverts must be collapsable in the event of their being in the way of say, an interesting gamma ray burst site.
Cynical yes, but I strongly suspect I'm not wrong.
..somewhere at the NASA:
"Sir! Sir! The Russians! The Commies have started to paint the moon red! What shall we do?!"
"Hmm...don't stop them. Load up a shuttle with white paint and when they are finished we'll go up and write 'Coca Cola' on it."
No ads in zero-gravity, eh? That means I can still write my name in the moon with a giant laser!
:(
CHA-
Aw, crap, some superheroes blew up the laser.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
These things have to be solved with international treaties (which would be easy enough to get, because people in other countries don't want this kind of crap any more than Americans do), unfortunately the party in power hates the idea of treaties so they'd rather assert US authority to control the world instead.
No! Were going to need them to vote on the legislation written by the advertising industry lobbyists trying to restrict the power of the FAA to not include space.
nt
Wal-Mart: Making Your Winters Longer!
The Sun is being presented to you today by Sun Microsystems. "Use Solaris. Please! Hey, we even run Linux!"
Mercury is being presented to you this evening by the new Oral-B Thermometer.
Venus is being presented to you by Arista Records... home to Abba! (1)
The Earth is being presented to you this evening by Miracle-Gro. Your lawn will thank you.
Mars is being presented to you this evening by M&M/ Mars Candies. Because sometimes you feel like a nut!
Jupiter is being presented to you this evening by Jupiter Research, because we really really want to know what you think!
Saturn is being presented to you this evening by On Star! Who will call 9-1-1 when *your* airbags deploy?
Neptune is being presented to you this evening by Microsoft. When do you want your computer to crash, today?
Uranus is being presented to you this evening by Preparation-H. It's not just for removing bags from a model's eyes you know!
Pluto is being presented to you this evening by Walt Disney World. Celebrate the magic!
--
(1) Who gives a shit if Abba is signed with Arista or not. Don't be so anal-retentive.
If its flying over our country, we get to shoot it down no questions asked.
Then put the people responsible into jail. ( hopefully forever )
We dont own space? Prove it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Let's say you wanted to loft an ad into space that would last for a short time in LEO before reentering and burning up. How big would the ad have to be to be readable, assuming it had the the name of your company printed on it?
Let's say the ad orbits at the same altitude as the space shuttle -- around 185 miles (~300 km). If the banner subtends half a degree of arc -- the same as the moon -- it would have to be about 3.2 miles long (assuming I did my trig right). I think we could probably produce some kind of fabric banner that length, although it would probably require custom machinery that doesn't yet exist. Or maybe producing numerous smaller segments that are stitched together would be easier, although that might increase the volume of the banner, which would make it harder to roll up/fold up into a rocket.
Launch would be as easy as any other launch, but unfurling it and keeping it flat would probably be the trickiest part. I bet it's feasible with current tech, especially if you only require that it be aloft for a minimum of a few days. Of course, finding a company that was willing to spend a few tens of millions of dollars on a single ad might be difficult, even with the insane exposure you'd get.*
* Yes, I know Super Bowl ads can be hideously expensive, but those ads don't have even a slight probability to explode in the upper atmosphere.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
i don't mod, so i just have to tell you
This reminds me of what Coke did in a Red Dwarf book. They sent bombs out to stars way out in space set to blow them up at the same time. The super novi caused by these explosions would spell out Coke in the sky. it was a long term advertising plan since it took the rockets so long to get there.
For those who can't even be bothered to read the Article summary let alone the Article itself...
The FCC is not mentioned anywhere! It's the FAA requesting theses laws.
That's not done because they're cheap. It's because there's a loophole in most anti-billboard laws that you can literally drive a semi through.
I can see it now . . . .
Even a single big, bright, unnatural subliminal floating piece of shit in the sky would undoubtedly test my ability to develop shit-seeking missiles capable of restoring my clean natural view of the universe.
"Get your telescope, little Billy! The Superbowl of Comet Showers is tonight, and the commercials are going to be great!"
OTOH, when we first started building the Space Station (and I'd thought it would be a transfer point for people and payloads going beyong LEO), I had this image of an exterior neon sign flashing "Gas"/"Food"/Gas"/"Food".
actually, since you want to get technical, we'll never achieve a pure geostationary orbit since theprecession and nutation of the earth's poles would never allow it. geostationary orbits, in the general sense, are those that are neither posigrade or retrograde in nature, so they aren't constrained to equatorial or zero inclination orbits. oh, and nice troll at the end.
I swear that if you live it to these marketing executives, the next ice age will be the result that the sky looks like a sports car.
Ok, the two significant things to note here is that the US seems to be increasingly asserting more power over space. The next step is probably going to be a bill that allows the US to shoot down any "illegal" objects in geostationary orbit above US soil.
S.
If you ever go out on a hike at night with a full moon, it is pretty bright, it lights up enough so you can see where you are going. so imagine having 2 times the brightness eh!? I am sure there would be enviromental impacts on nature. creatures that are really sensitive to light probably will get die out or something messed up like that. but in a business point of view, this billboard idea isn't plosible because the majority of mass consumers are not stuck in cages called motorised vihicles with roofs that they won't realise what is in the sky.
Thank GOD.
:-M
until Pepsi or Coke pay the government enough to get the first Space Billboard online floating over the U.S. of A.
TW
Television is dead. Long live That Weasel Television
In the US, as long as the blimp flies above whatever the FAA says the minimum altitude is, you can't sue. Which means, you can only get money if the government says that you can. So, simple solution: set the FAA level for ads at one light-year.
If anyone puts up a space advertisment, I'm going to get a big laser and shoot it down myself.
what sig?
just like in futurama!
they also had advertisements in their dreams though. I wonder if they'll ban that next.
If you don't want someone to copy something, don't give it to anyone.
Likewise, a lot of satellites never pass directly over US soil, but could still appear as large as the Moon to Americans.
That's virtually impossible. If my math is right, an advertisement in geosynchronous orbit would have to be about 325km accross in order to be the same size as the moon. Since it'd have to be at least semi-ridged (and assuming it was square), the cost of building a sign with a surface area of 105625 square kilometers would be enormous.
If the FAA can rule in this manner over how space is "used" then perhaps the FCC can mandate how hardware interacts with broadcasting.
kulakovich
Okay, the arguments about whether or not the US owns space aside, they're just talking about ads in space we can see from Earth, right? I'm curious because, like in Cowboy Bebop, I envisioned holographic space billboards and stuff around the approach paths for space colonies and whatnot in one of the projects I'm working on. :P
It's really weird hearing them actually think about this kind of stuff...
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
No billboards in space please. They get in the way of our laser weapons and rock throwers.
Jessica Alba billboards excepted.
What a waste of money! Out of all the things FAA could be doing, they spend there time on this? You have got to be kidding me? Hey Congress, how about some budget cuts starting here!
I guess that just leaves carving a message into the face of the moon with a gigantic laser... :-)
I'd say anything to help us get into space would be a good thing right now. Any money spent toward space is a good. I hate advertising as much as the next person, but damn I want off this planet. Perhaps a sunset clause like "when cost of space drops to X level, all adverts come down"
I think I might be willing to put with something like that for a little while. :o)
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
But the bit about it interfering with astronomers doesn't carry much weight. If this "billboard" is in low earth orbit, it'll only be in the sunlight to reflect light back to earth for a short time after local sunset. Most of the time it'd be in daylight and invisible or in darkness and equally invisible to ordinary eyes.
That said, this clutter might occasionally reflect city lights down to telescopes and create a problem. Or the jerks who make it might use synchronized strobes.
Whatever, it's the ultimate in tacky, tasteless advertising, which is why Madison Avenue just might be tempted to go for it.
--Mike Perry, Untangling Tolkien, Seattle
The SpaceAD business plan:
SpaceAD's breakthrough technology will place a fifty square kilometer grid of hightech polymer construction medium into Geosynchronous orbit! With a Red, Green and Blue light affixed every ten meters, SpaceAD's revolutionary sky banner will capture the attention of billions of hapless viewers every year!
Managed from SpaceAD's ad-mission control, we can create a full-color, fully animated image which will be visible and readable to the naked eye, anywhere on Earth!.
At its position of prime exposure, SpaceAD's premium celestial banner will appear larger than the moon itself!
Reach millions of viewers nightly! Companies will vie for SpaceAD's coveted spot in the sky!
Certain to earn billions every year, visit our capital investment website for more information. Our IPO will be coming in mid 2006!
Be ready!
-FL
When deep space exploration ramps up, it will be the corporations that name everything: the IBM stellar-sphere, the Microsoft galley, the planet Starbucks.
Well, turn the Sun black (eclipse it?) and the moon red with space-based advertising and you might be able to trigger Armaggedon :)
funny stuff
Hmmmm.
Chairface Chippendale got as far as "CHA"....
Enough said.
The "blimps" in BR weren't supposed to be in orbit, they were just flying through the city. That's why you could hear the "Let's go to the colonies!" spiel coming from them. They looked pretty heavy, maybe they were supposed to be anti-grav instead of just lighter-than-air craft.
Freedom: "I won't!"
Warden:There's no billboards in space Homer:There's a billboards in space museum!
First you animate. Then you SUSPEND!!!
This reminds me of a book I read years ago. I believe it was Red Dwarf IIRC. An advertising agency spent years and trillions of dollars sending a ship out to explode stars with pinpoint timeing. When the light from the various supernovas all reached earth at once it spelled out Coca~Cola in the night sky. Once hyperspace is perfected we will need to update these laws before some unethical company tries anything that stupid. Us Americans just might be stupid enough to try.
chown -R us
"If any of you want to do orbital advertising you're going to have to pay us a lot of money to change this regulation. The promise of future lucrative consulting contracts with lobbying firms will do nicely, thank you."
... what will they do against this nearby "star" to stop advertising for Sun (Microsystems)?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Haley's comet would have been spectacular this year if not for it being blocked by the 50mile wide ad for Depends Undergarments.
We are the capitalist capitol of the world, it is only appropriate for the US to allow Pepsi and Microsoft in space and outlaw space 'spam' where small companies try to do the same thing.
The problem is advertising in space. The solution is to use the billboard as a weapons platform. Win/Win and the US Gov. won't object
This is a great idea, but there will be catastrophic tidal waves.
The plus side: Kids love to surf.
Surf's up!
...will be to design a low earth orbit that maximizes the amount of time spent over the continental USA during the 8 hours post dusk and/or mid to late afternoon.
Assume the launch will take place from the Guiana Space Center complex or from a sea based platform along the Equator.
This is a strange world we are living in today.
While one branch of the US government is concerned with Ads in space, and prohibiting it, another branch wants to militarize space.
What the ...
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
Since we're already working on space weapons, we'll just blast away any advertisements as they come up... I'm waiting for the Space Wars that result when foreign countries get their LEO advertisements destroyed...
That'll be the first war teenage couples will find beneficial to their saturday night "star gazing."
What the hell's a "gewie?"
I think you do not understnad big business - for example, here is a simple business plan:
1. Build a 100GW solar power array ($100B)
2. Transmit power to Earth ($$profit$$)
3. Realize that for the cost of semi-transparent paint you can make an extra $100M per year.
4. More $$profit$$
It is better to have these limitations in place early, if we have them at all. I'm curious what the limits are, though. You can see current sattellites in orbit, and as they get bigger they will become more obvious.
Have we just limitted ourselves to staying here on Earth? (Remember, a US citizen is unlikely to live in space unless at least 1 million other US citizens are there - and that's if you consider yourself to be in the top 1% of the US! Can you imagine a home for 1 million people that you cannot see from Earth?)
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
NASA is part of the government.
Good thing, or else the aliens will be looking down on us, and the first thing they see is an advertisment for "100% natural penis enlargement." :/
- Adam
The Computations of AdamR
http://www.adamreyher.com
This is a joke, right?
Dan Brown's Latest Novel....called Deception Point has, as a central theme, this precise issue.
I for one, perhaps like millions of others, find light polution offensive and it effects one's ability to sleep, not to mention the tackyness of such advertising anyway.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
This is really funny, because there's an episode in the Dilbert TV show about this. The PHB suggests putting billboards in space and they wind up destroying modern civiliation (think Y2K). Fortunately Dilbert fixes it.
It might be an eyesore and people probably will hate it, still one has to acknowledge that it would be cool even if for a little while to have these things up there in the sky. Even if it is advertisements, which I really despise and hopefully something else will be put up there instead, it's as if while we don't have flying cars we can have a piece of the future.
Also there is something to be said about what mankind can do. Why build buildings so freakishly high, why build a colosseum, or the pyramids, or anything so great and vast. I say because we can and we should. After all it would be so cool to see. Just like looking up at the night sky and seeing the first manmade satellite shooting by. So very cool.
Also, armed citizens.
"Nobody writes jokes in base 13." - Douglas Adams
In space, no one can see your billboards.
I didn't say that a geosynchronous satellite would be made to appear as large as the moon; you'd do a LEO satellite for that, and use a balloon to have huge size and light weight.
I am ok with it.
Unless it is goatse.
But then some superior alien race would just wipe out the planet.
I am ok with that too.
You can't handle the truth.
This is a shocking blow to small business, the individual, and the mom & pop store, who only want the right to launch a huge, massive billboard into space that may some day break apart and kill astronauts to advertise their product as an expression of the free market.
...pwned! all your space are belong to us!
The US announces a space billboard initiative. Part of this initiative involves a unilateral declaration that any attempt to remove their billboards will be seen as an act of aggression. Followed by what sounded like muffled laughter.
Show's how much you understand about China's goverment.
Haven't seen any other posts relating to this, I bet no one else thought of it.
At what point does advertising become absolutely fucking retarded?
;) (joking)
Right about here.
Ads in lower orbit?! Lets spray paint pepsi logos on bald eagles!
Lets advertise the new season of survivor by painting the entire grand canyon with CBS logos, and Survivor marketing!
Having open heart surgery? No problem... You're new heart is brought to you by Nike and Walmart!
Tatoo the shit under our eyelids and lets get it over with.
What the fuck happened to common courtesy and deceny? FUCK humanity and fuck you too
Seriously... I think we need to respect life, our environment, and each other a lot more these days because profit is becoming the ultimate goal and the expense is the human experience.
Profit has always been heartless but it seems the world is growing colder and more evil every day.
"This Space For Rent"
1. Launch 1km-wide, lightweight white surface into LEO.
2. Attach laser projector via ~500m tether.
3. Sell ads to the highest bidder.
4. Profit!!!
The real reason is that the billboards would mess up the aiming of the new space weapons.
Imagine this scenario:
GWB: "Fire!"
Minion: "Sir, I can not fire. Lost target aquisition. There seems to be a Microsoft billboard passing now."
GWB: "!"
"Big and bright advertisements might hinder astronomers"
More like Big and bright adverts in the night sky would be a bloody pain in the bum. I mean who wants cola adds floating across the starry sky. WAAAAAYY too much consumerism.
And about the "US owns space" comment- Well it's not that they own space, but they're probably the only ones likely to actually try and put billboards in space
They probably could license the same technology that lights the moon...
Hummm... no "Top Quality Exercycle For Sale" adds then, hun?
"A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
flaming space junk* There would be something reassuring about seeing presidential campaign posters from space. Especially the bit where president bushes face (with flag background) slowly drifts into re-entry and catches fire! On a postive note, I'm sure some rock groups would pay good money for that!
http://www.neobard.info - wacky world of me
Sodium Vapor lights do indeed have a very narrow spectrum. They are also more economical than mercury and halogen lights. Yet mercury and halogen lights are indeed replacing sodium lights becuse the narrow spectrum is actually a hazard.
Low Pressure Sodium lights are almost completely monochromatic at 589nm, that characteristic yellow-orange color. High Pressure Spdium lights include some other elements (thus colors), but still have a very limited spectrum. The result is that it is almost impossible to see colors under these lights, for example the color of a car leaving a crime scene.
Oversimplifying, the retinas in our eyes have Cone Cells, and Rod Cells. The Cone Cells see color and are concentrated in the center of our vision, and so also give us high resolution. The Rod Cells see gray scale, are distributed, and have the ability to dark adapt to see in low light.
The spectrum of Sodium Vapor is insufficient to activate our Cone Cells. Yet the intensity of the light kills the ability of our Rod Cells to dark-adapt. So we are stuck with the low resolution of our Rods, with only their daytime photon-gathering ability, and orders of magnitude fewer photons than in daytime.
It is almost the worst possible combination, in some cases worse than a decent night sky. Sodium lighting has actually been shown to increase industrial accidents. So, though cheap to buy and run, sodium lights are frequently being replaced, unfortunatey for the astronomers.
I suggest that they abandon area lighting and just issue every citizen some good night vision gear (or tax credits for it). It would be much more fun that way.
Those marketing companies will find a way around this, they will do things like shape solar arrays into cut-outs that read "Eat at Joe's" or get rocket launches to skywrite clever marketing phrases. Besides, if they can put "We Brake for Nobody" on the back of an intergalactic cruiser, they can draw "Pepsi: the choice of the ME generation" in the sand on the moon.
Do you honestly think that a 100GW satellite, which would have to have a surface area of about a hundred billion meters, would only cost $100B? You're on crack. Sending stuff into space isn't cheap, and sending a hundred billion meters of solar panel into space and assembling it would cost trillions and trillions of dollars.
Well, I am making no assumptions on technology - but if you would like to see how that could be possible:
Using materials only launched from the Earth, build a very large parabolic mirror. At the focal point put a relatively normal heat engine (though lighter than normal).
100 GW Heat engine: 10,000 Tons - $20B maximum launch cost
Very large mirror 100 km x 100 km (but only 1 micrometer thick): 30,000 Tons - $60B maximum launch cost
$20B on R&D
This assumes a $10,000/lb launch cost (or approximately twice the current market rate).
Of course, if you use near Earth asteroids, or moon launch, etc, it is even cheaper. My numbers are realistic - but the project is currently too high risk. That risk is coming down, though!
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
To appear as large as the moon (31 arcminutes or 0.009042 radians) at that distance, it would have to be 1.35 kilometers in diameter. Let's say the height of the billboard will be only one fifth that, that equals about 0.3645 square kilometers, or 364,500 square meters. The maximum payload of the space shuttle is 24,400 kilograms, that would mean the object could have a maximum average mass of 0.067 kilograms per square meter, or less than 1/6th a pound. It would also have to be strong enought to be unfolded and unrolled to the 1.36 kilometers.
Somehow they would have to have a framework to keep it outstretched. Also they would need to keep it oriented towards earth so it would probably need to be a rigid structure with jets at the corners at least to keep it aligned. Just having an outer shell would require 3.264 kilometeres of a rigid material, that would probably weight more than the space shuttle could carry itself. It would probably take dozens if not hundreds of missions to construct it as well.
So we would be looking at many missions, plus a construction job worse than the IIS. It would almost certainly cost hundreds of billions of dollars. At 150 kilometers, it would only be visible near dawn and dusk since it would be in the earth's shadow the rest of the time. It would only be visible for a few minutes as it crossed the sky. It would also be visible very rarely when it was in front of the sun because it would cause a partial eclipse. It could still be almost as bright as the full moon though because the moon only reflects about 12% of the light hitting it and this could have a higher reflectivity.
A big problem also would be that it would only say one thing. To change what it said you would have to repaint the whole thing. I cannot imagine an advertiser spending hundreds of billions of dollars on seomething that it would take that much to change again. To think of lighting it from the ground is almost ludicrous. For one thing you could only light it when it was overhead from a lighting station. For another, you would need as much power as the sun would deliver to it, so you are talking about 1 kw/ square meter, or 364 megawatts. At a very cheap price of $0.06 per kilowatt-hour, it would take another $730,000 to light this thing for just the two minutes that it was over the lighting station. If you would want to light it over all of the United States or Europe, you would need to create new power stations that would be used just for this task, turn them on to generate 364 megawatts for the two minutes it is overhead, and create a lighting station for each that would cost hundreds of millions itself to operate.
Many of those problems are because it would be in a low earth orbit. So why not put it in a higher orbit? Well, to make it appear to be the same size, you would have to make it bigger the further away it is. Also you would then need more power to light it. To put it twice as high up, you need four times the area, so four times the material and four times the power to light it. It would be convenient to put it in geostationary orbit so that it could always be pointing towards your target audience, but then it would have to be 324 kilometers across to appear as big as the moon. It would also cost at 5,366 trillion dollars to build. That's 145 times the entire GNP of the world. So if we stopped any an all production except to put this thing up in geosyncrhonous orbit, it would take us 145 years and we would die of starvation long before that.
So in the only remotely plausible case (I doubt the logistics could even be worked out to create it) it would be in low earth orbit and be powered by reflecting sunlight:
Sorry to be picky, but shouldn't that be "micro" gravity and not zero gravity? Theoritically, you can never have zero gravity. Although, inter-stellar space is very close to zero gravity.
You are confusing "Government" of the District of Columbia" with actual government. These are two separate instances, whereas government is action and "Government" is a person created to disguise larceny through voluntary contracts established by concealed threat. There is no constitutional delegation of power to NASA, but a corporate charter that declares certain subject matter of the false reality NASA presumes, but is separate from Our reality.
I tell you what... I'll go reserve a trademark for SALSA: State-Accessed-Space-Assholiation and anyone caught entering Space from anywhere line-of-sight above this State will be shot down to the pit of lawyer heaven.
There is no such thing as "false reality". NASA may be unconstitutional, but it is part of the government. And would the FAA's claim to space be legitimate?
Are you not held liable for your actions? If you were the load in a carriage, and hurled by a {Trebuche} through the sky; landing upon a top of a house causing no less than 2000 FRN damage: does the FAA have any claim of tresspass damage to represent the complainant by delegation or is it champerty?
:-) NRAdude
I don't see what the Federal Anonymous Alcoholics have a due to guard the heavens when their subject matter jurisdiction is held post-facto and in no way improves the compensation of damage. It's a burden born to impune your good judgment; concealed by the barbarous acts of the few that disgrace the many honourable people in pursuit of such related arts and sciences.
I thank you holesomely for your persistence. This kind of discussion on slashdot is a blessing of sanity to our fellow participants. I'ld login, but I always get modded down; I need a little root help and quick posting to bring my wit to the earliest of moderation views.
No, the FAA has suffered no actionable damage (assuming that the trebuchet load did not collide with a flying object), but if the load were massive and high enough, it might be in violation of FAA regulations. When the person collides with your roof, he is trespassing (he may even be trespassing sometime before he hits your roof). But tell me, is a plane flying 20,000 feet above your house trespassing? If so, it's going to make air travel a little more difficult.