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Nokia And Apple Collaborate On Open Source Browser

Posted by Zonk on from the phone-browsing dept.

Michael writes "Nokia's ambitious bid to make the mobile phone as important a client device for business and leisure as the notebook PC took another important turn last week with news that it has created a browser in collaboration with Apple, which will be managed under the open source process. This starts to address awkward web browsing, a key weakness of the phone's bid to be the 'new notebook', and it raises interesting questions about how much further Nokia and Apple could go in cooperating on the anti- Microsoft ecosystem, and how far Nokia is committing its future to Linux."

177 comments

  1. How about... by KC7GR · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just for once, I'd like to see a phone manufacturer make a product that's really good at one thing, and one thing only: Being a PHONE!

    Keep the peace(es).

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

    1. Re:How about... by ShadeEagle · · Score: 4, Informative

      Problem is, things like "market research" gets in the way of things like that.

      "People" want a phone that checks their e-mail, checks their websites, checks their blood pressure and checks their oil, all at a touch of a button.

      Oh, and full polyphonic and mp3 ringtones.

    2. Re:How about... by surefooted1 · · Score: 1

      The market says different.

    3. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People like you complain just to complain. I was on a recent business trip and the ability to check my email from my phone was able to allow me to enjoy my trip more and spend less time looking for a wifi hotspot. My phone that I have right now is very good at being a phone, it just also can check other things. What other features would you like added to your phone that's not there? Please don't say better service, that has more to do with the towers.

    4. Re:How about... by ultramk · · Score: 1

      You seem to be in the minority.

      If they made money selling a phone-only, they would make it.

      Meanwhile, here you go.

      m-

      --
      You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
    5. Re:How about... by daniil · · Score: 1

      Buy a Nokia 3310. It's cheap, you can take and receive calls with it, it has a phone book. And a vibrating alert. Or is there something else that you'd want a phone to do?

      --
      Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
    6. Re:How about... by ZephyrXero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is however that we want such a device that does all these things well, and so far...all these devices that try to do everything just do a mediocre job at most of these tasks. I'd love a PDA/Cell Phone/Ogg & Mp3 player/Game System/camera/etc....but I doubt I'll ever see one that does them all very well on the same machine :/

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    7. Re:How about... by systemic+chaos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Market research would correctly assess that I would like the possibility of an mp3 ringtone, but they seem to also think that I would A) want to buy the ringtone from them and B) want it to be blasted so heavily distorted from the tiny speaker that although it can be heard in neighboring states, no one can tell what it actually is playing.

    8. Re:How about... by eggz128 · · Score: 1

      Fine, go get a Nokia 1100 or similar. I'll stick with my 6670, someone else can go for something in the 9xxx range if that suits them.

      Or didn't you realise Nokia makes more than one type of phone?

    9. Re:How about... by CockblockTheVote · · Score: 1

      who the hell wants just a phone? i need ALL of my devices converged into one. i want to be able to be jamming out to my mp3s and immediately pick up a call when my phone rings. then i could be jamming out to my mp3s while gaming with the guy next to me on the subway, only the game drops when my phone rings. then, while i am gaming and jamming out to my mp3s, the game could drop while a popup tells me what the weather is, and what the stock market is doing. then a dozen click-thrus to tell me what is new on slashdot, how to 3n14rg3 my p3n1s, and where i can get viagra from some nigerian bankers. all without ever leaving the comfort of my phone. then my phone rings and it is paris hilton with some new sex pic JUST for me. then my phone drops to tell me there is a new song available on ITMS, which it automatically purchases for me and bills to my credit card. but then i have an emergency call to make, lets say the subway i was on was hijacked by terra-ists and driven into a building. i need to make a call to get the word out to the liberal right wing media. but i have to "listen to this extra special offer" first, before my call would connect.
      whew....
      is it possible to get a PHONE that makes CLEAR phone calls and has decent battery life?

    10. Re:How about... by dsginter · · Score: 1

      Just for once, I'd like to see a phone manufacturer make a product that's really good at one thing, and one thing only: Being a PHONE!

      But that would prevent Apple's entry into the cell phone market. Portable music players will only get smaller. This means that they need to find another ubiquitous device into which they can incorporate them.

      --
      More
    11. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1990 called...and then hung up in disgust. :)

    12. Re:How about... by Alef · · Score: 5, Insightful
      What I would like to have is a modularized system, where the phone/PDA/MP3-player etc is replaced by several independent units that connect using for instance bluetooth.

      It could be, for example, an uplink-unit, screen, earpiece and memory-unit. When the technology used to communicate changes, I'll just replace my uplink-unit and so on.

      But needless to say, this will never happen, since all those gadget manufacturers (Nokia, Apple or whatever) benefit from me having to buy a new phone+screen+camera+memory+earpiece+mp3-decoder every time I like/have to upgrade one of these technologies.

    13. Re:How about... by ealfert · · Score: 1

      I love my Nokia 9500. I believe it comes close to what you describe. It is a little big for a phone, but I view it as a PDA, that gives me internet access anywhere I am, with a built in phone. Not the other way around. It is a bit pricey at $799.99 (retail) but I believe it is worth it in order to have an all-in-one device that lets me keep in contact with my servers (via full web or ssh access) no matter the time of day or location. A US version of the phone became available 3 weeks ago via Nokia USA but a European version has been imported into the US for the past 6 months. You can get the European version for about $150 less than the US verson but keep in mind that you won't have warranty support via Nokia USA and Nokia UK (or other European service centers) won't be able to fix your phone because they do not have export licenses to ship them back to you in the US.

    14. Re:How about... by kick_in_the_eye · · Score: 1

      well, with a nice clock too.

    15. Re:How about... by Brazilian+Joe · · Score: 1

      I would enjoy a 852x480 wide/touchscreen Gumstix-based WiFi(g) GSM/GPRS/EDGE 400MHz w/Bluetooth in a gamepad (psp) format. preferably with an analog stick too, a a 3D OpenGraphics chip, and 256 MB of memory. Running (ahem) GNU/Linux f course, w/ KDE on matchbox (of course Gnomers shall have teh right to theirs version too) AM I ASKING TOO MUCH?

    16. Re:How about... by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of good phones for just talking. And in Europe (and elsewhere outside the US) there are plenty of good networks that let those good phones work. The US telcos are so lazy, so well protected from competition on basic call quality, that they haven't made their networks adequate - instead, they sink money into making bad connections seem cute, like the "Can you hear me now?" campaign.

      None of that has anything to do with smartphones. Smartphone development doesn't interfere with continuing to make simple phones just for talking. Those simple phones are already available. So your complaints about R&D that is making smartphones as reliable and easy as the already available "talkphones" are misdirected. It's like whining to Mom that your older sister gets to stay up later, when you can already watch all the TV you want.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    17. Re:How about... by punkass · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. Anybody know of any phones for T-Mobile / Cingular that you can force your own mp3 ringtones on?

      --
      "Nobody owns the fucking words man." - James Dean
    18. Re:How about... by Ghostx13 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I'm not understanding this argument, and I see it all the time on slashdot.

      Has everyone in the world gotten a crappy cell phone except me? I've always had samsungs and never had a problem with them - good mic and good speaker. I really don't know what else you want a phone to do to qualify as "being a phone!".

    19. Re:How about... by nathanmace · · Score: 1

      I have a Mot V551. I'm using a mp3 ringtone I made in Garageband. It works really well.

      --
      I'm very responsible, when ever something goes wrong they always say I'm responsible.
    20. Re:How about... by CyberDave · · Score: 2, Informative

      My Motorola V400 and V551 (Cingular) support this.

      Using Bluetooth on my V551, I can even upload ringtones and wallpaper directly from Windows XP and Mac OS X, without having to use the USB cable and Motorola Mobile Phone Tools software like I did with my V400. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

      Just be sure to use a low bit rate and mono sound for best results (the speaker isn't exactly hi-fi, so 48 Kbps/mono sound works great without taking up a lot of space for me, leaving more room for more ringtones).

    21. Re:How about... by EpsCylonB · · Score: 1

      Agreed, there are simple phones out there if you bother to look.

      Personally I want a phone with a decent mp3 player so I don't have to carry two devices around with me.

    22. Re:How about... by the+darn · · Score: 1

      The Nokia 3300 can use just about any mp3 as a ringtone. My current one is the sound of a telephone ringing.
      Otherwise, the 3300 is pretty nifty, if unusual. It's shaped like the N-Gage, but doesn't require side-talking, and has a servicable calendar and browsing functions. Great for text massaging of all stripes, too.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un post.
    23. Re:How about... by Bronz · · Score: 1


      Yeah! And while your at it, what's up with the television? Either show pictures or play sounds.... Pick on and do it right! Oh, and why does my car come with a stereo for that matter? If I wanted to listen to music I'd sit in my phonograph room and crank my own table like everyone else. Don't get me started on the amount of things your average "computer" can do these days.

    24. Re:How about... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah ha! So I'm not the only one who wants that!

      The way I see it, it should be divided into the following modules: storage (hard drive/flash), tranceiver (cellular/wifi), CPU, input, and display. It could use either a Twiddler and head-mounted display, or a touchscreen slate (like a Star Trek PADD, or unusually large-but-thin PDA) interchangably. It would connect with wires instead of Bluetooth (except for the PADD), though, because everything should use the same battery anyway. It would turn out something like MIThril, except more streamlined.

      Is that what you had in mind?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    25. Re:How about... by bonehead · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      On my recent trip I did all of my e-mail through my Treo 650, even though I had a laptop back in my room. I was also able to SSH back to the office and restart a flaky dhcp server right from the convention center, rather than making the half hour walk back to my hotel.

      But, like another poster said, I tend to view the Treo as a PDA with nationwide Internet access that also happens to have a phone built in, not as a phone with other stuff tacked on.

      Personally, I like having all of that functionality in my pocket without having to carry a half dozen devices wherever I go. Even the camera is decent enough that I rarely bother carrying my real camera anymore.

    26. Re:How about... by hahiss · · Score: 1

      Just to add a variation on ``me too" (sorry):

      The Motorola V551/Bluetooth option works on GNU/Linux systems as well.

      --
      "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
    27. Re:How about... by Alef · · Score: 1
      Yes, possibly (I only took a cursory look at it). But steamlined is a keyword here -- that MIT contraption seems overly messy.

      I suppose physical connections would be ok for some of the units, if there were a common interface so that one wouldn't have to rely on one single manufacturer for all of them. Although I think I would prefer to have them attachable directly to each other, instead of having wires going all over the place.

    28. Re:How about... by Com2Kid · · Score: 1
      • Amen to that. Anybody know of any phones for T-Mobile / Cingular that you can force your own mp3 ringtones on?


      Anything Motorola.

      USB ports, spiffy. You need some proprietary Windows only software to do it though.
      --
      Need help treating your acne? Come here!
    29. Re:How about... by m50d · · Score: 1

      On B) I think they're just going for the largest market. Take a random sample of cars with upgraded sound systems - actually, better, have it weighted towards the demographics of people who are buying phones - and see how many are going for a higher quality setup compared to those making it as loud as possible.

      --
      I am trolling
    30. Re:How about... by steveyT · · Score: 1

      If "people" are anything like me, they'll want a phone that lets them check their email, websites, takes photos, is a remote control for the TV, runs Java and microwaves pizza. But when they get the phone they'll use all the features for a week, and then just use it as a phone for the 11 months 3 weeks until their contract expires and they can get another new phone. Seriously though, I was told about a Swiss company was developing a phone which had 3 buttons, you press any button to answer the phone, any button to hang up and pressed and held a button to dial one of three pre-programmed numbers. Perfect for people that only use their phone for emergencies and calling home.

    31. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow nobody has ever posted something like this on Slashdot before thank you for sharing!!1!

    32. Re:How about... by Xshare · · Score: 1

      I'm not ashamed, I'm one of those people... It's not my fault that I'm bored and out of the house. Or that I'm lost in a bad neighbourhood and need directions. My phone's internet capability changes those situations dramatically, and so far, every phone I've had is pretty damn good at being a phone.

    33. Re:How about... by yanndug · · Score: 1

      Why do first posts unvariably get modded to +5?

    34. Re:How about... by torako · · Score: 1
      I'm a bit tired of reading that exact same comment every time a story about cell phones comes up..

      There are quite a few phones that only have the basics and are really good enough for what a phone should be good at, that is placing and receiving calls and maybe texting.

      It is just that the flashy shiny phones with cameras are advertised more because some target consumer groups (=teenagers) like to spend money on useless things.

    35. Re:How about... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1
      I have a Nokia 3310.

      I've had it for about 5 years. It's basically just a phone. It works great.

    36. Re:How about... by pjf(at)gna.org · · Score: 1

      Try Nokia 2600. Almost what you want.

      --
      echo "getuid(){return 0;}" > e.c; gcc -shared -o e.so e.c; LD_PRELOAD=./e.so sh
    37. Re:How about... by rmart · · Score: 1

      So that's why Nokia has a few phones that are, well, just phones! Like this one, for instance, for less than $100!

      Just because there are a lot of new phones with shitloads of features, doesn't mean that there aren't any new 'basic' phones left anymore.

      --
      the hottest music podcast on the block
    38. Re:How about... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      Well, according to the site, the final design will eventually be packaged inside a vest, like this. Also, from the site:
      Note that this system is ordinary packaged in a black button-down-the-front shirt which completely conceals the equipment, making the wearable all but invisible except for the head mounted display and Twiddler.
      MIThril seems to use USB for its "body bus", so I think that qualifies as a "common interface."

      Finally, the problem I see with having everything directly attached is that it becomes bulkier and inflexible. You'd end up with a single big chunk either the shape of a laptop or a CharmIT (or Mac Mini), and either way it's less ergonomic than distributing the components around the body. For example, I would personally like to have the batteries in my back pants pockets, the hard drive, CPU, and tranciever in a vest, and the slate display in my backpack. Or something like that, anyway. I guess the main idea would be that I would just want separate devices and strategically designed pockets, like the Scott eVest and such.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    39. Re:How about... by mgs1000 · · Score: 1

      ...and the non-Americas version also won't use the 850 mhz band. (Very important if you use Cingular, a non-issue with T-Mobile)

    40. Re:How about... by Valar · · Score: 1

      I don't want your crippled phone. No offense, but I figure you to be an old fogey.

      Most of my friends use their cell phones as much for text as for voice. We're part of that generation of thumb-dominant mobile users. We like being able to getting instant messenger anywhere. We're flocking to plans like sprint's that give unlimited text and web for a flat rate. We want more at our finger tips, not less.

      We'd prefer not to dial information, we'd rather google it. Oh, and we want maps with directions, on the phone. I mean, I guess I could use the dedicated device ("map"), but why? I've already got a perfectly good solution in my pocket that I only have to fold once, instead of like 8 times when I put it away.

      But congratulations on scoring 'insightful' for the same post that everyone makes on every story about anything cell phone related.

      --

      ====
      Crudely Drawn Games
    41. Re:How about... by dchamp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been using a Treo 600 for about a month now, I like it a lot. It does a fair job at everything you mention, except the camera on the Treo 600 isn't very good (640x480).

      I had a Handspring Visor & Visorphone, but only used it for a couple months before switching back to my Nokia phone, because it was too big, and the sound quality sucked. I pretty much quit using the Visor all together after that.

      The Treo 600 (or 650) is a pretty good device. When you throw in the huge catalog of PalmOS software it can run, it's very useful, and a lot of fun. Games, pTunes for mp3 + a $68 1gb SD card, web browsing, ssh client...

      Now... they're not for everyone. They are a lot bigger than a normal cell phone (but smaller than a Blackberry), expensive (most providers sell them for about $300), and the battery life isn't so good (I charge mine every 1 to 2 days depending on how much playing around I do) compared to my Nokia phone that lasted 3 to 4 days.

    42. Re:How about... by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 1

      And while you're at it, just for kicks, put a rotary dial on that thing. Seriously, I'd buy it.

    43. Re:How about... by pwsegal · · Score: 1

      Vodafone in New Zealand have just launched a series of phones that do just that (ie being a phone) in response to a customer feedback. Have a look here http://vodafone.co.nz/mobiles/gen/mobile_details_v f_simply_vs1_curvy.jsp?hd=foryou&st=mobiles&ss= and http://vodafone.co.nz/mobiles/gen/mobile_details_v odafone_simply_vs2.jsp?hd=foryou&st=mobiles&ss= These phones were launched a week or so ago so I don't know how well they work, but at least somebody is listening to consumers.

    44. Re:How about... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      we had that thing 10 years ago(a phone that was just a good phone). didn't you? the mobile service has been 'perfect' around here for 10+ years as far as regular phoning goes(enough to replace landlines with a smile).

      you think a mobile phone company would survive by just making a phone that didn't do anything else than be a phone? would _you_ buy a phone that was just a pretty good phone when the competitor would be selling a phone that was equally as good phone AND had feature X for about the same price?(x being calender, web browser, bluetooth... whatever anything that the first one didn't have).

      the thing is - if you go to a store and see a phone that is just a phone, and for the same or a little higher price next to it a phone that let's you use instant messangers, browse yahoo local, slashdot etc while on the bus.. which one would you get?

      as a nerd, of course the one with the web browser so you can read slashdot on the go - even if you just used it once per week.

      btw. you could still get a phone that's "just a phone" - just look at the cheapo phones, or hell, pick up some old model from ebay.

      at what point it stops being just a phone, anyways? when you add caller id? text messages? 1000 name memory? wap, web? I don't think you would like a mobile phone that was just like your landline from the seventies - it would suck ass.

      opera on s60 is pretty spiffy right now - more than suitable for reading the daily news while taking a walk to the work.

      pretty beaten to death subject though. just don't buy the friggin phone then if you can resist, nobodys forcing you.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    45. Re:How about... by kyrre · · Score: 1

      Ask and you shall receive.

      Portable Rotary Phone

      and

      Spark fun elentronics

    46. Re:How about... by Alef · · Score: 1

      Yes, I can see your point. But the drawback with a wired "body bus" in a west is of course that one would be confined to wearing that particular west all the time. (Well, unless you equip all your clothes with USB buses.) Perhaps one could simply have a waist belt with a bus in it? Belts are compatible with most clothes.

    47. Re:How about... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Well, since the system would be modular, either configuration would be possible. I would personally stay away from putting everything on a "bat-belt," though, because it doesn't strike me as being very comfortable.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    48. Re:How about... by ccharles · · Score: 1

      I don't think so.

      The phone companies want phones that have these services so that they can CHARGE FOR THEM ALL SEPARATELY!

    49. Re:How about... by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 1

      Spiffy, but I was hoping for something more toward the size of an old flip-phone.

    50. Re:How about... by boisepunk · · Score: 1

      praise allah

      --
      main(0)
  2. Oh for the love of by FireballX301 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    THIS should be perfect for mobile web browsing.

    Most definitely works for me, at least.

    1. Re:Oh for the love of by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      Is Opera open sourced? Is it free? okay then...
      Speaking of which, whatever happened to that 2 million dollar investment Nokia made in Minimo?

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    2. Re:Oh for the love of by FireballX301 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Ah yes, open source is ALWAYS better than anything any closed source, NO MATTER WHAT. Thank you, mister OSS zealot.

      I personally find the free version's advertisement s unobtrusive, anyhow.

    3. Re:Oh for the love of by ChristTrekker · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was going to say the same thing. Opera's not OSS, but it's worked hard to become the leader in this market. Is this just a case of NIH syndrome? Apple and Nokia will spend more on developing something on their own.

      --

      Constitutionally Correct

    4. Re:Oh for the love of by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      Depends on what screen size you're at. They were pretty huge a couple years ago when I tried it... Open Source software is not always better as far as quality...I would agree. But, with open source software you are guarenteed there are no hidden "features" you may not actually want. As spyware companies boom and governments and corporations take away more and more of our privacy and rights, open source software is one our few tools for freedom left. I'd much rather donate $50 to a developer rather than the traditional buying of their product. I could go on and on...but I think I've made it clear that there's no "mindless zealotry" going on here.

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    5. Re:Oh for the love of by l-ascorbic · · Score: 1

      Competition is good. FWIW, I believe Nokia has also given support to the Mozilla foundation.

    6. Re:Oh for the love of by Metaphorically · · Score: 1

      FTA: "It is not clear whether the implementation of Safari will become standard across Nokia handsets. It also offers the Opera browser on some models,..." They acknowledge Opera, just this article is about a different browser ;)

      --
      more of the same on Twitter.
    7. Re:Oh for the love of by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      with open source software you are guarenteed there are no hidden "features" you may not actually want.

      That's the "free as in speech" angle. I think Nokia's probably more influenced by the "free as in beer" angle.

      If Nokia wanted to put a tiny Opera on their phones, they'd have to pay Opera Inc. a fee for each unit they produce. On the other hand, if they work with an Apple or a Mozilla Foundation to develop their own open-source microbrowser, they don't have to pay a cent in licensing costs per unit (except maybe 0.1 cents each for the ink to print the OSS license in the user guide, if it's a GPL or GPL-like license).

    8. Re:Oh for the love of by J.+T.+MacLeod · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, open source is ALWAYS better than anything any closed source, NO MATTER WHAT. Thank you, mister OSS zealot.

      Assuming comparable quality? Of course.

    9. Re:Oh for the love of by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      Opera browser is an amazing piece of coding art (it runs on 2mb Nokia 7650!) and company is still small.

      I hope it never changes and I hope it never goes 'opensource'

      I don't care about anything which doesn't have small screen rendering. If you want "desktop like" experience, there is excellent Webviewer from reqwireless, which is not free too.

    10. Re:Oh for the love of by Klivian · · Score: 1

      I think Nokia was working on and founding a project for an embedded version of Mozilla/Gecko to use on PDAs an phones. Since this was started some time ago, before Mozilla/Gecko was at a particular usable state(0.9ish or before). I'd guess they also had to support Mozilla to get it usable. Or was that embedded thingy sponsored/worked on by Ericksson, don't quite remember:-)

    11. Re:Oh for the love of by m50d · · Score: 1

      No, it was Nokia. The project seemed overhyped and never really amounted to anything, perhaps they found the mozilla code too hard to work with?

      --
      I am trolling
    12. Re:Oh for the love of by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      "If Nokia wanted to put a tiny Opera on their phones, they'd have to pay Opera Inc. a fee for each unit they produce. On the other hand, if they work with an Apple or a Mozilla Foundation to develop their own open-source microbrowser, they don't have to pay a cent in licensing costs per unit"
      No, but they'll have to pay someone to work on the browser. Just using Opera instead could be cheaper, as developing a decent mobile browser from a desktop browser... Well, it is probably harder than it sounds! Isn't KHTML known as a memory hog?

      Don't count on Opera being out of the race just yet... If they can deliver something better, that's what people will use.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    13. Re:Oh for the love of by juhaz · · Score: 1

      THIS should be perfect for mobile web browsing.

      Well, it's not. Nothing is perfect, you know.

      Nokia has been distributing Opera for a long time in their phones, you bet they know about it, and you bet they have a reasons to do so if they're planning to move away from it. Either they're unhappy about the price, or the quality, or both.

      Besides, competition is ALWAYS good, no matter how good Opera is, it can become better, if it's the only player there is no incentive to do so, but if there's a good alternative...

      Most definitely works for me, at least.

      Well, we're not asking you to develop new browser, we're also asking you not to flame everyone who does want to spend their OWN time and money to do so.

    14. Re:Oh for the love of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this just a case of NIH syndrome?

      No. It might be if they hadn't even tried Opera, but Nokia has been using it for quite a while, and they wouldn't work their own without a reason.

      Apple and Nokia will spend more on developing something on their own.

      Don't be so sure about it, they're getting most of the work for free, and big horde of people fixing bugs for them. And if nothing more, having another player in the field will encourage Opera Software to make their better than it already is.

    15. Re:Oh for the love of by smartdreamer · · Score: 1

      Why is this modded Troll? Because opera is not OSS?
      ah moderators...

  3. Can you tell me how to get... by Evro · · Score: 1

    How to get to Repo St?

    http://apple.slashdot.org/search.pl?query=nokia

    --
    rooooar
  4. dupe... by dominator · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/13/ 1158208&tid=181&tid=3

    1. Re:dupe... by Oscar_Wilde · · Score: 1

      What bugs me is the fact that I submitted this story before it was originally posted (only a few hours before though, so it may have been after the original posted submission).

      Seeing a rejected story accepted by someone else 5 hours later is annoying. Seeing it duped is worse.

      P.S. I know you shouldn't gripe about rejected submissions. Feel free to flame me now.

    2. Re:dupe... by Althazzar · · Score: 1

      I submitted the story in the morning that day, it got placed late in the afternoon. I guess they chose the first poster of the story. This story does go somewhat further into the whole thing tho.

  5. and that's surprising because... by nightcrawler.36 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like it or not, Apple is a stylsitic trend-setter. Nokia has the market share for the affluent techno-yuppies, which is where Apple's been. Sounds like a natural relationship.

    --
    - nightcrawler "Reality is an illusion, albeit a ver persistent one..." -A.Einstein
    1. Re:and that's surprising because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes and as we all know affluent techno-yuppies really care about the browser they are using.

      Man, those stylistic trend-setters will start to drool once they learn the browser is based on webcore, which in turn is based on KHTML, but is using the gtk toolkit.

      To sum it up, your post doesn't make any sense at all.

    2. Re:and that's surprising because... by l-ascorbic · · Score: 1
      Nokia also has the market share for everyone else: they're the biggest phone company.

      This has very little to do with "style". Nokia wanted their own browser. Apple had developed an excellent version of khtml. So Nokia approaches Apple to help them develop a mobile version.

    3. Re:and that's surprising because... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      I think it more likely that this has more to do with something called "resident set size" than trend setting.

    4. Re:and that's surprising because... by gongura · · Score: 1

      If they can get nokia phones to sync painlessly with osx, I'm happy

    5. Re:and that's surprising because... by nightcrawler.36 · · Score: 1

      GOOD LORD! WHat the heck is KHTML!!?!

      --
      - nightcrawler "Reality is an illusion, albeit a ver persistent one..." -A.Einstein
    6. Re:and that's surprising because... by m50d · · Score: 1

      As I'm sure you know or at least could guess, khtml is a html rendering library developed by the kde project.

      --
      I am trolling
  6. Is the same browser.. by brainnolo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is it the same browser of few days ago or they are starting a brand new one?

    Slashdot. Dupe for Nerds.

    1. Re:Is the same browser.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dupe for dopes?

  7. toaster telephones? by matt+me · · Score: 1

    Yeah, multi-gadgets are terrible - they do neither function well. That said, whether a gadget uses Windows (incredibly excessive for a phone) or just firmware (sensible scale), we geeks are always going to try to put Linux on it. Think Linux iPod, Linux Nintendo DS, Linux coffee machines...

  8. Phone with a mouse? by sammyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't the real issue the current bloatedness of web pages such as this for example? Most current phones could probably handle an RSS feed pretty well, sans graphics. It just seems silly to try to build a web-phone until bandwidth, latency and window size issues have been resolved.

    An RSS enabled phone would be cool though.

    Actually just a basic phone number sync would be a pleasant surprise.

    1. Re:Phone with a mouse? by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      How many buttons will it have?

    2. Re:Phone with a mouse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get RSS feed to mobile if it supports chat. At least Yamigo has service which imports instant messages from several networks and has RSS feed.

    3. Re:Phone with a mouse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm as a start most phones support sending business cards...

    4. Re:Phone with a mouse? by l-ascorbic · · Score: 1

      You do realise that phones have had browsers for years? It's not the fact that they're adding a browser that's news. It's the fact that they're using WebCore.

    5. Re:Phone with a mouse? by sammyo · · Score: 1

      > You do realise that phones have had browsers for years?

      Sigh, yes I do.

  9. start with support. THEN new development by 2.246.1010.78 · · Score: 1

    Nokia was never keen to support their phones (even the models marked "business") for Macs. Despite the Series60 phones which are mostly supported I'd suggest they start with support for plain old nokia phones first before they try to develop new models.

    And as a previous poster noted: they should concentrate on excellent phones. Maybe allow them to sync well, but that should be about it.

    1. Re:start with support. THEN new development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they should be the amish tech company, and try to freeze progress. As everyone here knows, everything was better 5 years ago, and if at all possible we should try to return to that point in time.


      I'm sure Nokia values your advice, and I wouldn't be at all suprised if they contacted you with a job offer.



      Moron.

  10. Re:Smart Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Failing in Desktops?? Are you nuts?
    Sure Apple wasn't doing so hot, but most of the new Apple PCs are damn nice, and plenty of people are buying.

  11. the competition by Total+Immortal · · Score: 0
    apple and nokia, with the first product launch, really need to show promise that rival products have lacked in the area. it will take some time and will be a gradual shift towards people using the phones as a pc, and if its played right many people wont even realise as they adopt the new technology.

    it shouldnt be too hard for them to bet the windows option either which shows little promise in its early stages, several of my friends have owned various versions of the orange spv which comes with the windows operating and internet explorer but they are prone to crashes and freeze up for short periods whilst attempting a task as well as taking quite some time to boot.

  12. Nokia killing open source in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Note that nokia are key backers of european software patent legislation that would close the door on open source software in europe until there's some sort of EPO-office-nuking revolution or something. Nokia deserves condemnation, not praise.

  13. this is weird... by yagu · · Score: 1

    Thought I was "replying" to an article on MS Xbox...

  14. YET ANOTHER DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jesus Christ, Zonk, I don't even regularly read this shit of a site and even *I* know that this is a dupe.

    1. Re:YET ANOTHER DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comment is a dupe. :)

    2. Re:YET ANOTHER DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Help! We're caught in an endless loop of incompetence and rage!

  15. Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Apple and Nokia are going to put together something that fills a niche, and does it well/better than anything else out there, why must that be considered part of some "anti-Microsoft ecosystem?" How about it's just "better," and people will use it or not?

    This morning, I found a new, better way to butter my toast. It's so revolutionary that it may be part of the anti-margerine ecosystem.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by trybywrench · · Score: 1

      If Apple and Nokia are going to put together something that fills a niche, and does it well/better than anything else out there, why must that be considered part of some "anti-Microsoft ecosystem?" How about it's just "better," and people will use it or not?

      I wish i had mod points cause i'd mod you up. How is OSS anti-microsoft? It's just a different way of building software that microsoft currenly isn't involved much in. Also, how exactly does an OSS browser tie Nokia to Linux?

      --
      I came to the datacenter drunk with a fake ID, don't you want to be just like me?
    2. Re:Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This morning, I found a new, better way to butter my toast. It's so revolutionary that it may be part of the anti-margerine ecosystem.

      How?

    3. Re:Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [This morning, I found a new, better way to butter my toast. It's so revolutionary that it may be part of the anti-margerine ecosystem.]

      How?

      Exactly my point! The original article talks about Apple/Nokia participating in an "anti-microsoft ecosystem" as they work on this new phone project. That makes no more sense than my toast stupid-on-purpose-analogy.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually... i butter my toast with margarine... as there is no suitable verb to express the spreading of margarine over toasted bread... thus i stick with the word "butter" to describe that action. You see, what we have here is a conflict between economics and linguistics, the economy comes up with a new product and linguistics fails to catch up (kind of like how your parents call ever console you've ever owned a 'Nintendo' regardless of what it is). Thus people happily butter their toast in the morning with MARGARINE!!!(apparantly you CANT beleive that its not butter...) What does this mean??? It obviously points to the doom of the Nokia browser due to lack of proper verb usage... oh and butter is clearly superior to margarine... it has its own verb.

    5. Re:Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by Queer+Boy · · Score: 1
      This morning, I found a new, better way to butter my toast. It's so revolutionary that it may be part of the anti-margerine ecosystem.

      No, the anti-margarine ecosystem was the dairy council funding research against margarine's supposed health benefits that led to the discovery of trans-fatty acids, which shows that margarine is actually WORSE for you than butter.

      Your toast buttering discovery is actually part of the anti-bagel ecosystem and quite possible the anti-butterknife ecosystem depending on your method.

      --
      Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
    6. Re:Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Actually... i butter my toast with margarine... as there is no suitable verb to express the spreading of margarine over toasted bread

      I call that Marginalizing my toast. But Julia Childs is right: a little butter never hurt anyone. She lived to a ripe old age eating tons of it (and drinking the right amount of red wine to offset the damage).

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    7. Re:Why should new/better be 'anti-microsoft'? by soft_guy · · Score: 1

      When I buy any technology product, the most important question I ask is, "How will my buying this hurt Microsoft?"

      I also wonder how to maximize my buying power in a way so as to hurt Microsoft as much as I possibly can.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
  16. Ah, Repo St. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Repo St.? Go north on Main, take a left onto State, after two lights make a right onto Oakland Dr. After a couple of blocks, Repo St. should be on your right.

  17. Nokia works with MS too... by bheer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    http://press.nokia.com/PR/200502/980519_5.html

    These are corporations, not blood enemies. Tech holy wars like Apple/MS, Sun/MS and Intel/Apple are so last-century.

    --
    Go somewhere random
    1. Re:Nokia works with MS too... by njfuzzy · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah. Everyone knows all the cool Holy Wars are between Free/commercial software and secular/muslim nations. Get with the 2000s.

      --
      My Photography - http://ian-x.com
      The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
    2. Re:Nokia works with MS too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um....
      which secular nations?

  18. Re:Smart Move by daniil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Naah. It's not because Apple is failing. It's because desktops themselves are failing. Already, laptops are outselling desktop computers. Other mobile computing devices are becoming increasingly popular as well.

    --
    Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
  19. Re:Smart Move by dyefade · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is a smart move, but it's not like Apple are "moving to mobile". They're just aware that Microsoft have a presence in the mobile market, they don't, and they're trying to keep their bases covered.
    As the blurb says, it does raise questions about Nokia's connections to linux.

  20. Is Linux an end in itself? by geoffrobinson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How committed they are to Linux? They will use Linux if it benefits them. They won't otherwise.

    If they start using OSX instead of Linux, would it really matter? Should users care about what OS they are using?

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    1. Re:Is Linux an end in itself? by cowscows · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't everyone think that way?

      Even a hobbyist developer hacking on the kernel is doing it for a benefit, even if that benefit is just the enjoyment of a good challenge, or for the sense of accomplishment of making something useful.

      A lot of people run servers on linux because it gets the job done, it's free, and they need a server. They're benefitting too.

      If Linux has become the end all to you, then you've turned into a zealot, and as such, your thoughts on Linux or any other operating system are mostly useless.

      Sorry, but your comment isn't insightful, as current moderation states. It's just sort of inane in its obviousness.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    2. Re:Is Linux an end in itself? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know how committed they are. But no one is going to be running OS X on a phone are they ? Heck a Mac Mini can barely run it, it is such a resources hog.

    3. Re:Is Linux an end in itself? by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

      Well, good thing my posts aren't an end in themselves.

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    4. Re:Is Linux an end in itself? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      how committed? they use it on an internet web-pad thing they've announced and that's it publicly for any linux use for nokia.

      on smartphones they seem pretty committed to symbian right now(high stakes in it -- AND THIS COLLABORATION WITH APPLE IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE A NEW BROWSER FOR __SYMBIAN__). they do not use linux practically anywhere publicly so i don't quite get how they would be changing from linux to osx in any way..

      oh well, they got j2me dev tools for linux, too. but zilcho support for osx for any devkit of theirs.

      what does linux have to do with this story anyways? it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with linux.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  21. Register: WTF by smittyoneeach · · Score: 4, Funny
    TFA Headline:
    Nokia shifting to Linux as it joins with Apple to challenge Windows 2
    I recall 'Doze 3.0, back in the days of the square wheel, and I'm pretty sure that there wasn't much web browsing going on then.
    If MS has tricked Nokia and Apple into somehow competing against Windows 2, I'm calling that the IT Judo Throw of the Year.
    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    1. Re:Register: WTF by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      They typed the article from their phone. We're just lucky it didn't look like this:

      Nokia mv-ing 2 Lnx + joins Apl 2 challng Wndws 2

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:Register: WTF by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Windows 2.0 had this pretty funky file browser called the 'MS-DOS Executive'... obviously Executive is not far away from Explorer. (It was called msdos.exe, a filename nowadays used by trojans.)

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  22. Nokia's Slogan by Boss,+Pointy+Haired · · Score: 3, Funny

    For a long time, Nokia's slogan to accompany their mobile office features of advanced phones was:

    "Now you can get to work before you get to work."

    Bollocks to that.

  23. You can't browse the web on a 2" screen! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why don't they make something useful for mobile phones like an open source gopher client?

  24. Please, please,please... by spectrokid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Please make an iPhone, please! I promess I will be a good boy, swear to god! Serious, do you have any idea what a phone would be with an ipod wheel on it? Scrolling through those contacts?

    --

    10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then

    1. Re:Please, please,please... by generic-man · · Score: 1

      Nokia 7280 with a wheel and no number buttons.

      Spark Fun Portable Rotary Phone with a rotary dial.

      Enjoy!

      --
      For more information, click here.
  25. Download nokia's "safari" for linux here by minus_273 · · Score: 0

    you can download Nokia's "safari" for linux here. It is the GTK port of webcore. Of course a browser is more than a rendering engine, but that is a really big part of it. The reference broser is very simple. Too bad more work is not put into it (probably could build it for windows too)

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
  26. Ah, the sweet comfort of familiarity... by njfuzzy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When I saw this horribly outdated dupe article, I knew it had to be from either "Zonk" or "samzenpus". It feels so nice to be right.

    --
    My Photography - http://ian-x.com
    The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
  27. The 770 (and SVG) by Metaphorically · · Score: 1

    In the article they repeatedly mention the non-phone WiFi tablet Nokia has come out with but don't call it by name. I assume (from what I read on svg.org) that the 770 is what they're referring to?

    Of course I have to use this chance to observe that this device supports SVG Tiny, as does Opera which they've embedded in other phones. Safari has no native SVG yet, but KDE/Konqueror has their implementation in KSVG. So it looks like Nokia is staying on that path.

    --
    more of the same on Twitter.
    1. Re:The 770 (and SVG) by tao · · Score: 1

      The device referred to in the article is probably the 770, yes, but the 770 will use Opera... When we started working on the 770 two years ago, this deal didn't exist, hell, when we launched the product one month ago this deal didn't exist, so while it would've been really nice to have a free browser in the 770, there's simply no time to move to another browser.

  28. Apple buys PalmSource getting BeOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And Apple buys PalmSource getting both PalmOS and BeOS...

  29. Bad news for Opera? by rduke15 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This sounds like very bad news for Opera. As I understand it, Opera's business was mainly to sell a browser to manufacturers of Internet enabled devices, of which the most important one seems phones, of which the most important manufacturer is probably Nokia.

    Sure, they also sell the browser to regular users (and I have happily paid for it 2 or 3 times), and they also have an advertisement-supported version, but I guess the main revenue was expected to come from companies like Nokia.

    Even though I now mostly use Firefox, I would be very sad if Opera eventually disappeared.

    1. Re:Bad news for Opera? by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      It would take years to have Opera functionality in a webbrowser on a smallscreen.

      On "mini laptops" named as phones, you have a huge screen. If you can manage to compile it, you can even have mozilla running.

      Opera technology is unique and being called "dead" everytime when such news happens, they are actually working on a TV browser, which is fit to set top boxes (OpenTV etc) right now.

      Nothing bad will happen to Opera. They have a huge paying customer base like you which ignored "free" solutions. (let me don't get into there is nothing free stuff)

      BTW, much larger, important news, months ago is: Nokia is now a full member of Helix project, from Real networks. Prepare to see some amazing breakthroughs on video/audio/3g on any Symbian installed phone. https://www.helixcommunity.org/

      I just need a phone with memory card to test those new evil realplayers for symbian, 7650 got 2mb, its compressed and full :) I am not binning a working device of course.

      If you got a phone which can run Opera, test those helix players too.

    2. Re:Bad news for Opera? by Queer+Boy · · Score: 1

      Nokia, of course, is an important player in the phone market but Sony Ericsson and Motorolla are catching up on them quickly. I'd advise ignoring any phone with Windows on it. Carriers are all about how they can lock you into THEIR service/platform and that does not make for good synergy with MS.

      --
      Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
    3. Re:Bad news for Opera? by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      This isn't necessarily bad news for Opera. It might not affect them at all. Remember, Nokia first started supporting Mozilla, then they started working on their own browser, and now they are working on yet another browser. In addition to these, they use browsers from companies like the Japanese giant Access.

      Nokia is just making sure there's lots to choose from.

      However, no one has come close to Opera yet. You can't just throw a bunch of programmers on a project and expect them to catch up with ten years of browser expertise...

      And the WebCore based browser is for Series 60 too, which apparently... sucks.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    4. Re:Bad news for Opera? by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

      I would have no problem whatsoever if Opera eventually disappeared, but don't worry. Opera has all kinds of things going on. For example, Adobe is using the Opera rendering engine for its HTML preview in GoLive CS2 (which means that the WYSIWYG aspect of it really IS WYG). This, and other strategic deals, will help them in the long run.

  30. Seriously, Nokia is getting there by alexhmit01 · · Score: 1

    When it came time to upgrade my phone, the Nokia's looked tempting, they just weren't "smart enough." I also wanted a QWERTY keyboard, and none of theirs supporting them seemed to work with iSync. So I have a Treo650... I love the features, but would be happy to migrate to a more phone-oriented phone in two years, and Nokia seems to be getting there.

    Support for Blazer (Palm's Web Browser) is pretty spotty, but I would expect Nokia to do a better job there.

  31. I couldn't agree more! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I also heard a rumour that some people were utilising Difference Engines to write to the editor of a newspaper!

    Absolutely Barking Mad!

  32. have a look at this by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

    this is a brilliant little phone, although it does have a couple of extra features like a (suprisingly useful and bright) flashlight, it does have a great battery life and good signal and sound quality:

    http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,76207,00.html

    1. Re:have a look at this by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      oops, i meant to post this as a reply to what seems to be the first post (complaining about phones with features like web browsers)

  33. Not quite. Apple's not directly involved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As reported earlier, the new Nokia phones are based on gtk-webcore (see http://gtk-webcore.sourceforge.net/ ).

    The webcore API may have been developed by Apple, but Nokia ported it to Gtk+ to avoid licensing issues with Qt.

    1. Re:Not quite. Apple's not directly involved. by l-ascorbic · · Score: 1

      Well Nokia's press release says Apple is involved. "A key component of this development has been Nokia's cooperation with Apple". Phil Schiller also says otherwise: "Apple is pleased to assist Nokia in creating their new Series 60 browser based on the same KHTML open source technology that powers Apple's Safari".

  34. Re:Smart Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Until the last few weeks, there had never been a time in Apple's known history where their computers didn't make their own top-20 list.

    That was then. This is now.

    AC reply to an AC.

    Ok, that stupid "When is two minutes not two minutes?" bug has hit again. So let me add this:

    http://search.ebay.com/imac_W0QQfsopZ1QQfromZR3QQs acatZ4599
    http://search.ebay.com/PowerMac-G4_Apple-Macintosh -Computers_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQcatrefZC6QQf romZR10QQsacatZ4599QQcatrefZC6QQsargnZ-1QQsaslcZ2Q QftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsadisZ200QQfposZQ5AIPQ2FPostalQQf sopZ1QQfsooZ1

    The hand is writing on the wall. People are selling their Macintoshes in an apparent state of absolute panic. They know their PowerPC machines will be obsolete in a matter of months. Can you blame them?

  35. Partnerships and initiatives create distinction by amichalo · · Score: 1

    It is interesting to me how there are so many Cellular Phone Providers. I mean, what are the real differences in Verizon, Att/Cingular, T-mobile, etc? OKay so Nextel has "push to talk" and Sprint is on CDMA not the GSM network but beyond those technological differences, The others just seem to be different rate plans to me. They even have 80% the same phones.

    So I am glad Nokia and Apple are partnering because to me, there isn't a lot different between Nokia, Ericsson, Sony-Ericsson, Motorola, Sanyo, LG, and the like either.

    I just don't think any of them distinguish themselves the way other consumer electronics companies do. Dell is the low cost, quality box builder for corporations. Gateway was the friendly cow folk. Apple is stylish.

    Cell phone makers NEED these partnerships for differentiation. I would have to look to see who the heck made my Sprint cell phone. Perhaps if someone made a phone I cared about, I would care who made it.

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  36. Re:Smart Move by Trillan · · Score: 1

    It has nothing to do with keeping bases covered.

    Basically, Nokia was looking for a new browser. They could have gone with open source or some sort of commercial license.

    Nokia had a few options: KHTML, WebKit (which isn't KHTML, but rather a fork of KHTML), or Gecko. There's no deep hidden meaning here other than Nokia's developers found WebKit the best of the choices (whether for technical reasons or because of licensing).

  37. Come on, it's an old news..... by Slackdog · · Score: 1

    i already read the same piece of "news" several days ago...

  38. Nokia is probably not planning to use KDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Longer term, the browser development shows an increasing tendency for Nokia to include Linux technologies in its thinking...

    True.

    > ...the open source version of Safari is part of the KDE user interface environment for Linux, which could conceivably be melded with elements of Series 60 to create a mobilized version.

    Not true, unfortunately.

    Apple took KHTML, and restructured the code into layers, in order to remove the Qt-interface code, and replace it an OS/X Aqua interface layer.

    Nokia then took Apple's version of KHTML, now called Webcore, and added a GTK interface layer.

    So, while Nokia apparently has no problem with KDE itself, in that they are using KHTML-based code, it looks like Nokia will probably not be using the rest of KDE, due to KDE's dependence on Qt.

    As most readers already know, Qt uses a GPL+proprietary licensing strategy, which forces commercial Qt developers to use the proprietary license, thus locking themselves in to a single vendor for Qt, namely, Trolltech. It has been speculated that this is the reason why some other companies, such as Sun, have chosen to go with Gnome instead of KDE.

    This is an unfortunate situation, because KDE has a lot of potential, which is being held back by the license of its underlying Qt platform.

    I would love to see the KDE developers restructure the rest of the KDE code in a manner similar to what Apple did to KHTML, such that KDE could be easily ported to multiple platforms (GTK, XUL, Windows, etc.), rather than just Qt.

    That is unlikely to happen, however, since so many of the KDE developers are funded by Trolltech.

    But, I guess there's no reason to worry, because the right things are probably going to happen anyway...

    KDE will continue to succeed, supported by KDE-centered distributions, such as Mandriva.

    And Trolltech's plan to make Qt the de facto standard for commercial Linux development, is probably going to meet with limited success. They'll make some money, but they won't achieve lock-in, as they and their financial backers are hoping.

    1. Re:Nokia is probably not planning to use KDE by bluGill · · Score: 1

      Licensing of QT is not an issue if your company is any good at all. Standard procedure when doing these negotiations is to get a little clause "If you go out of business we get full rights". (Obviously written by a lawyer so it is more complex, but that is the idea)

      QT doesn't even have a per-product shipped clause like most things, so it is less restrictive that most licenses.

      Cost might be an issue, but you need to consider the cost of dealing with the alternatives if you consider it. GTK is free, but if it is more work to use, your total costs may be higher. (I don't know GTK so I don't know if this is true or not)

    2. Re:Nokia is probably not planning to use KDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it looks like Nokia will probably not be using the rest of KDE, due to KDE's dependence on Qt.

      Where did you get that idea? Nokia probably won't use the rest of KDE because KDE wasn't designed for small screens and they already have a stable operating environment; there's no need to rip everything up and replace it just because they are switching browsers.

      This is an unfortunate situation, because KDE has a lot of potential, which is being held back by the license of its underlying Qt platform.

      KDE has "a lot of potential"? Every user survey and every count of distro defaults shows KDE far in the lead of any desktop environment or window manager.

      I would love to see the KDE developers restructure the rest of the KDE code in a manner similar to what Apple did to KHTML, such that KDE could be easily ported to multiple platforms (GTK, XUL, Windows, etc.), rather than just Qt.

      That is unlikely to happen, however, since so many of the KDE developers are funded by Trolltech.

      It's unlikely to happen because it's an insane amount of work for very little payoff. Qt already runs on Windows. Qt already runs on the platforms that GTK+ runs on (and better in most cases). A XUL-based KDE would be excruciatingly painful.

      There's no need to think up conspiracy theories to find reasons why KDE isn't toolkit agnostic. Any interested party is free to submit patches to make KDE toolkit agnostic, there's no need to wait for the core developers to do it.

  39. "Just a phone, please" response by tedhiltonhead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People in these threads always complain about wanting "just a phone that works, please". I challenge anyone to prove that phones' modern bells and whistles detract in any way from their
    ability to provide phone service.

    Your phone's inclusion of Tetris, a camera, and polyphonic ringtones is NOT a trade-off against reception, battery life, or purchase price. I promise your $30 basic phone would not be any cheaper if it were "just a phone". Your reception and battery life, likewise, would not increase if it were "just a phone".

    In short, if you don't want the features, IGNORE THEM. It's really easy.

    Are you also going to complain about your Ford Escort's included radio?

    There's always the one-button "911 only" phones, which operate without a service plan at all, if you really don't want *any* features. :)

    1. Re:"Just a phone, please" response by hahiss · · Score: 1

      And you just KNOW that people posting ``I just want a phone" also post ``Apple's single-button mouse is teh 5ux0r5!"

      (I keed, I keed. I just want a phone too. But I gotta admit: I kinda like my games and camera.)

      --
      "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
    2. Re:"Just a phone, please" response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd be willing to be that if you stripped out the camera and other useless crap, you could make a phone that's thinner and lighter. Think Motorola RAZR, but even slimmer. Or better yet, use the space saved for a bigger battery.

      And while we're at it, use some of that bandwidth and technology to MAKE THE CALL QUALITY BETTER. Screw fast downloads, I want land-line quality on a cell phone.

    3. Re:"Just a phone, please" response by Thu25245 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Having a backlit color screen absolutely cuts into battery life. Yes, battery technology has evolved to counter this, but newer batteries could power simpler phones for much longer.

      The buttons and menu options for all these features clutter the interface, and make for more scrolling when trying to perform essential functions.

      I personally paid US$150 to get an older model phone (V60i) as opposed to the color-screened cameraphones they were giving away for US$9.99. As a bonus, my phone is slightly smaller and lighter, but with larger, clearer buttons than the giveaways.

      And on a side note cameraphones seem to be much less durable than older phones. Newer phones feel so much lighter and more plasticky than older ones. This is an inevitable result of wireless providers wanting their customers to trade up to phones that take advantage of more pay-per-use technologies like ringtown downloading, picture messaging, and the like.

    4. Re:"Just a phone, please" response by bluGill · · Score: 1

      Actually the size of the phone is dictated by comfort these days. The battery is the largest part of any phone, but with today's technology it will often go for days on a charge, which is more than most people (plug it in every night) need. Smaller phones are not happening because smaller phones don't fit in large hands well, and the buttons are already hard enough for the elderly to hit. They cannot make phones any smaller without a breakthrough of some sort.

      Batteries come in standard sizes. (Many of them to choose from, but still standard) There is plenty of room for most of that "useless crap" in the case of the phone, and often there isn't a standard size battery that could take up the rest. The camera is the only thing that takes up any significant room, most of the other features are implemented on a chip. Even the camera can often fit behind the speaker where the batteries will not fit. (But remember each phone is different so this generalization will not apply to all of them)

    5. Re:"Just a phone, please" response by NilObject · · Score: 1

      I'll bite:

      It gets in the way in the same way that feature-bloat makes Word a bad plain-text editor. If you want to type something quickly, you do it in TextEdit/Notepad. If you want to write a fully-illustrated thesis, you use Word/Pages/OpenOffice.

      My phone is painfully slow because they had to add all kinds of whizzy graphic features for tweens. It takes seconds to scroll down through each entry. I had a phone five years ago that was snappy and instantaneous, and it was free (versus the $100 I paid for this phone). If they didn't have to have pretty little pictures next to every entry and a fully-skinnable interface with retarded Trek-knockoff styles, it'd be a snappy little phone.

      I had a Treo 180 that was great as a phone because it didn't let all the PDA features get in the way like most phones do. When you had the phone program running, it WAS a phone. Number pad and address book and favorites list *right there*, ready to go. The misc. features that I rarely used were tucked away in the menu (previous calls, timers, etc) and that was that.

      With this $100 phone, I have to open it up, wait for it to respond to me pressing the address book button, type the first letter of the person's name, scrol through the other 10 people I have with the same first letter in their name, push "select", scroll to their home or cell number, push "call", and then wait another 5 seconds before it starts ringing.

    6. Re:"Just a phone, please" response by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      And on a side note cameraphones seem to be much less durable than older phones. Newer phones feel so much lighter and more plasticky than older ones.

      Check out the LG VX7000. It has all those whiz-bang features like photos, video, games, mobile web, MP3 ringers, but it definitely has a solid feel to it, and pretty good battery life as well.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    7. Re:"Just a phone, please" response by Zouden · · Score: 1

      With this $100 phone, I have to open it up, wait for it to respond to me pressing the address book button, type the first letter of the person's name, scrol through the other 10 people I have with the same first letter in their name,

      Press the green "call" button when you're at this stage - it will dial the default number for that contact. This works on all phones.

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
  40. Addressing Awkward Web Browsing? by DanielMarkham · · Score: 1

    "...This starts to address awkward web browsing..."

    I RTFA, and I did not find anything specifically that told me what kind of neato features are going to address web browsing. Apple -- great company, great interfaces. OSS -- great idea, great systems. But what _in real terms_ are they going to do? Make the screen bigger or the text smaller, right?

    Perhaps this whole idea of cramming so much into the phone is off-track. Maybe we should be buying separate "monitors" for all of our personal electronic gear. Preferably something that looks like sunglasses, or that invention that shoots low-power lasers in the eye to image things in 3-D. Then all our gadgets just use Bluetooth to plug into that. Sure would make some of these things cheaper, and would give us a lot more hardware options. After all, we have separate monitors for computers, why not personal display systems?

  41. Solution: by Sebastian+Jansson · · Score: 1

    Ban Open Source! ;)

  42. Series60/Symbian and 770/maemo by cies · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nokia is currently doing 2 WebKit (based on KHTML/KJS by the KDE project) related webbrowsers:

    1) for 770/maemo
    this will be shipped with an opera-browser, but WebKit was ported to GTK+ (the toolkit used by maemo) as part of the feasability study. This port can be found under the name gtk-webkit and is used for the atlantis browser.

    2) for the Series60 (Symbian based)
    For this series Nokia is porting WebKit to the Symbian OS and Symbian toolkit, and will thus create a new browser.

    links:
    http://khtml.info/
    http://kde.org/
    http://gtk-webcore.sourceforge.net/
    http://www.akcaagac.com/index_atlantis.html
    http://www.series60.com/
    http://www.symbian.com/
    http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,1522,,00.html?orig=/7 70
    http://www.maemo.org/

    g'luck...
    Cies Breijs

  43. better toast by matt+me · · Score: 1

    >This morning, I found a new, better way to butter my toast. It's so revolutionary that it may be part of the anti-margerine ecosystem. Please share, preferably under the GPL.

  44. Light-weight browsers - standards by matt+me · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The biggest problem for light-weight browsers intended for lo-res devices is the many sites that don't comply with standards (need much more complicated rendering engine (XHTML intended to be simply to interpret than HTLML)), require images (esp large colour ones), and worse still flash.

    Now check http://www.nokia.com/
    That's never going to display on one of their phones!

    1. Re:Light-weight browsers - standards by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      When the site only uses Flash it'll be a problem. But Opera's Small Screen Rendering handles most HTML pages just fine.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
  45. Nokia is not one entity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Before you condemn them, talk to them.
    I met a few Nokia engineers 7 months ago and all were very very strongly against software patents. It's Nokias patent dept and senior management that want them.

    The senior tech manager I met said he knows that if Nokia gets its patents, it will not need to spend so much on R&D and they'll all get the boot for cheap Asian programmers.

    'Strong' emails have gone round strongly requiring Nokias staff to back the software patents. Its not their fault.

    1. Re:Nokia is not one entity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its not their fault.

      They're free people, not serfs. They could and should resign, particularly in europe where they have a social safety net.

    2. Re:Nokia is not one entity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The SS were just towing the line, it was not their fault.

      Besides which, the situation you describe makes no fucking sense.

      Support the CII directive so that we can outsource your jobs, or else!

      I refuse to believe Nokia employs drooling morons ouside of senior management, therefore it is obviously you that is a liar or fool.

  46. I don't want to carry all that by bluGill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't want to carry all that every day. I just want it all with me.

    Sometimes I want to take a picture, but most days I don't, so I never have a camera nearby. It would be nice if my phone had a useful camera. (It doesn't. I'd be happy with a single focus lens like the old 110 I had as a kid, but the resolution is too poor to take useful snapshots)

    I don't want a separate game machine, I just want something I can waste 5 minutes on when I'm unexpectedly told to wait.

    I don't want a separate PDA, I just want something that will remind me of my appointments, and allows me to easily enter more. (My current phone does the former, but not the latter)

    I don't want an ebook, I just want a few (changeable) books around that I can read when I have a few minutes to kill. (see games above)

    I never remember everything, and my pockets don't have room for it all either. Find a convergence that works I'd I'll use it. Sadly the implementation of convergence as it exists today is lacking. However it isn't the fault of convergence, it is the implementers' fault. I wish Apple would get into the cell phone market, and show everyone how to do it.

  47. Never happen? It already exists! by rufusdufus · · Score: 1

    I use a Nokia camera phone as a phone and a bluetooth wireless internet uplink. I use a handheld Sony Vaio u750 as my screen and memory. I have a jabra bluetooth earpiece/microphone that works both with the phone and the handheld. Its all covered, and fits in my pocket.

  48. If only they could collaborate on Nokia/Mac sync.. by fatalb7 · · Score: 1

    Till now, only the series 60 are supported by iSync...

    Nokia's market share is quite big.
    Would it be that hard to support more Nokia phones?

  49. Nokia Committing to Linux? by saterdaies · · Score: 1

    Hardly. The fact is that the broweer they are developing doesn't just run on Linux. In fact, Apple's fork of it is obviously for Mac OS X. Not only that, but it could easily be run on any BSD system and I'm sure NetBSD would take well to a handheld - it took well to my toaster ;).

    Nokia is actually more committing to GTK than anything else since that's what they've decided to use as the widgets with Apple's WebCore.

  50. Exploiting, not supporting, open source software by xiaomonkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems that both apple and nokia are strongly in favor of having software patents in the EU. I think one the given reasons for why this is necessary is that without software patents, they'll get eaten alive by open source developers.

    However, neither company seems to have a problem using open source software to futher their business objectives. So, it seems like they're simulanteously using and try to hobble open source so it can't compete with their proprioritary offerings. So wouldn't the best characterization of their behavior be selfish exploitation rather than 'support' of OSS.

  51. You forgot a module... by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    "backpack" (nylon/cloth).

    You will be needing it to carry your umpteen devices.

    I'll stick with my GX32 that does all that and fits in my palm, thanks.

    1. Re:You forgot a module... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      First of all, that phone doesn't even come close to doing what I would want. This device would be designed to completely replace your desktop, pda, and cellphone, and have new unique functions (context awareness, augmented reality, etc.) also. Second, the idea is that you'd have a vest or something designed to hold it, so that it would be comfortable to wear and non-obvious (except, optionally, for the head-mounted display).

      In other words, it wouldn't be like a cellphone or PDA, it would be closer to the "cyberization" in Ghost in the Shell but without the implants.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  52. Old Neighborhood? by lullabud · · Score: 1

    That sounds like an old neighborhood. All the new ones are named after the birds and trees that existed there before they were chased out and plowed over to build pop-up houses.

  53. The problem isn't the browser by NardofDoom · · Score: 1
    The problem is the shitty ass cell network in the US. Using WAP on my phone is like this:

    Login
    Wait...
    Scroll to "News"
    Wait...
    Click "CNN"
    Wait...
    Click "Headlines"
    Wait
    Click a story I want to read
    wait
    Read the first 250 words, click next
    wait.

    The browser's not so bad, it's the connection speed. You'd think downloading plain text at 19kbps wouldn't be so damn slow.

    --
    You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
  54. also about camera phones... by gregeth · · Score: 1

    Not too mention that all these phone companies seem to keep forgetting that all these wiz-bang camera, gaming, etc devices with phone functionality aren't even allowed in most work places!

    If you've looked recently at what phones are available with bluetooth at the various cellular providers you'll quickly find that virtually ALL have cameras builtin.

    I could see a real market for a simple low powered phone with either a removable BT module, or builtin. BT is one of the few reasonable features I think a cell phone can have as there are some great BT headsets available. Especially since in some states you can't use the phone while driving unless using a hands free kit.

    BT does probably make a problem for battery, though, which is why I was thinking of an addon card.

  55. Re:Exploiting, not supporting, open source softwar by presearch · · Score: 1

    It's Open. It's available to you.
    If you think you can deliver consumer products at high volume using the techniques that you prefer, go for it.
    Isn't the point of Open Source to have it exploited to further your, or some corporations business interests? Or both even?
    Besides, I don't see many do-it-yourself cell phones on the market.... If not Nokia/Apple then who?

    Sure, it's not a perfect world, but a Nokia/Apple communicator is certainly going to be way more fun, and with more possibilities to build off of compared to a PocketPC based phone. Best of all, it'll probably work way better than a Microsoft or RIM product.

  56. Re:Exploiting, not supporting, open source softwar by xiaomonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you think you can deliver consumer products at high volume using the techniques that you prefer, go for it.

    What if the techniques I prefer involve using an algorithm or approach that is covered by an overly broad and not exactly innovative patent held by either Nokia/Apple/somebody else?